Doomed Carnivoire

May 20, 2009

U go girl......To each,, their own...--- On Tue, 5/19/09, cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell wrote:

cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soup Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 1:32 AM

Dear fellow posters,With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are

raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.The very best of health and a long future to

everyone,Cheryloleander soup, "Tammatha" <tammatha@.. .> wrote:>> Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > Tammatha> - > shaman_urban > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > >

> > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > We are continuously

learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > http://www.jmbblog. com/arsenic- in-our-chicken/> > Bon appetit :-)>

May 20, 2009

It is very difficult as we know to make people care, but one always thinks that maybe the future would be of concern, if not for themselves but for their children and their grandchildren and so on....high fiving another because they stood up for eating another being just doesn't feel right to me. If we all had this attitude we all would be in dire straits, thank goodness there is concern out there. Everything we do affects someone, something.... somewhere. We are all connected. If caring for animals and the planet makes me a villian this is alright. My conscience is clear.

I'm done, thank you!

Tammatha

-

lostrin

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:21 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

A few years ago I spent a lot of time as a breastfeeding counsellor. Women on the edge of deciding between breast and bottle were much more open to our information when given with total acceptance. Some decided to go bottle. The next pregnancy I noticed they were much more prepared to breastfeed before the baby was born because they received non-judgmental support from our group.On the contrary, some mothers in the group who were rudely pro-breastfeeders somehow felt it necessary to scold the bottle feeding mothers. Those mothers then left the group and never came back.If we feel the need to convey information the method of delivery will make or break acceptance of it by the listener.As a vegetarian for many years I could never feel badly about those who ate meat, after all, I once did myself. In addition, I am interested in the science behind meat-eating as I assume original diets are much healthier than what we eat today. However, out of respect for my husband, a staunch animal rights activist and my youngest daughter, I would not entertain the notion of introducing meat even if I have great respect for WAP. Just wanted to let the group know that there are veg-heads out there who understand the other side.Regards,Janet

May 20, 2009

Good for you, the animals and the planet Laura!

Thank you~Tammatha

-

Laura

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:37 PM

RE: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

**You mean I'm not the only vegan? **

__Hi Tammatha,

I am currently transitioning to raw food vegan. Last night was my first veggie loaf. Portobello mushrooms, sunflower seeds and walnuts were the main ingredients with raw bbq sauce. It was delicious. Currently I have my first cracker recipe in the dehydrator. Cant wait to enjoy those!

Blessings,

Laura,_._,___

May 20, 2009

Oh forgot to ask you Laura.... do you have a recipe it sounds delicious?

Tammatha

-

Laura

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:37 PM

RE: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

**You mean I'm not the only vegan? **

__Hi Tammatha,

I am currently transitioning to raw food vegan. Last night was my first veggie loaf. Portobello mushrooms, sunflower seeds and walnuts were the main ingredients with raw bbq sauce. It was delicious. Currently I have my first cracker recipe in the dehydrator. Cant wait to enjoy those!

Blessings,

Laura,_._,___

May 20, 2009

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup , "hemnancy" <hemnancy wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup , "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@> wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

May 20, 2009

Sonya I loved your utube video, very cool! Is it hard to find vegans in Michigan? I'm a treehugging, animal loving vegan that drives a Prius in California, there are many here!...lol Must be tough in Michigan...no?

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:40 AM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Surprising enough, I had a little girl in my daycare a few years ago that I had since she was a baby... anyway, she was about 5 or 6 and we had gone for a walk and we get half way and she is doing the "I gotta go pee dance" so I ask if she thinks she can wait and she says "NO" and by the dance she was doing I knew she wasn't playing... so I took her down the side of a hill and let her do her thing... WELL, she tipped sideways and I thougth I saw a dark patch of hair... I asked my assistant if she was what I saw and she said she thought so.... I mentioned to the mom what had happened and I said... "i think I saw some adult hair on her OR she has been playing in the mud... MOM said "OH, you didn't know that?" HELLO, NO!!!! she said that she started getting hair about 4 years old... "WHAT?" she said that it was from the hormones in the food... If I hadn't seen it first hand, I wouldn't have believed it....And as for the cows milk... we are not baby cows!!! Cows milk is made for a 250-300 pound baby cow.. not a 40 or 50 pound child...Our aim in education is more to show how good vegan food can taste. Generally once the notion of vegan/vegetarian tasting bad is dispelled, one has a more open mind to learn more... I just did a vegan demo at an earthday celebration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myzO5A2I9PE and found many people commenting about tofu... I make a tihini house dressing that everyone loved.. when they asked what was in it and I said tofu, they wrinkled their nose and said.. "I don't like tofu, but this is good" I always share that it is all in how it is prepared...SonyaSE Michiganoleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha wrote:>> Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study". Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers?> We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called "Raw Emotion". The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. > > Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > Hi Cheryl,> I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. > For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk.> I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit.> If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild.com> > With blessings of health & happiness,> Lyne> > > > > -------------------------> cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell> oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM> Doomed Carnivoire> > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?> Cheryl>

May 20, 2009

There has been a lot of discussion regarding meat eating v vegetarianism. I have no problem being vegetarian. In fact it makes you actually think about what you eat, look at the ingredients in everything you buy, and ultimately cook more real food rather than have take aways, ready meals, etc. I would like to eat more organically but often cant afford the prices but I have planted vegetables this year although I am not a gardener and my garden is full of slugs and snails. I cant kill them so pick them off and let them go in the park or wood but the whole thing worries me. Now my runner beans have black fly and although I dont want to kill them I have sprayed with soapy water and even feel guilty about this. Once you become vegetarian you then start to

think about other things that you buy and use, leather shoes for example, furniture and so on. Its a mine field. I often wish I could go back to childhood when I was unaware of the issues and ate what my mother put in front of me. Im happy to be vegetarian but am probably not a happy vegetarian if you understand me.

Re breastfeeding in the below post. I had my children 22 and 20 years ago and there was a mafia like thing going on to make you breastfeed. I found it extremely disconcerting. Health professionals on a mission. In fact I was quite happy to do so but despite everything couldnt for more than a week or two. My children thrived on the bottle and are healthy women. Love is the best food of all.

Joy

Tammatha <tammathaoleander soup Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009 4:08:08Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

It is very difficult as we know to make people care, but one always thinks that maybe the future would be of concern, if not for themselves but for their children and their grandchildren and so on....high fiving another because they stood up for eating another being just doesn't feel right to me. If we all had this attitude we all would be in dire straits, thank goodness there is concern out there. Everything we do affects someone, something... . somewhere. We are all connected. If caring for animals and the planet makes me a villian this is alright. My conscience is clear.

I'm done, thank you!

Tammatha

-

lostrin

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:21 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

A few years ago I spent a lot of time as a breastfeeding counsellor. Women on the edge of deciding between breast and bottle were much more open to our information when given with total acceptance. Some decided to go bottle. The next pregnancy I noticed they were much more prepared to breastfeed before the baby was born because they received non-judgmental support from our group.On the contrary, some mothers in the group who were rudely pro-breastfeeders somehow felt it necessary to scold the bottle feeding mothers. Those mothers then left the group and never came back.If we feel the need to convey information the method of delivery will make or break acceptance of it by the listener.As a vegetarian for many years I could never feel badly about those who ate meat, after all, I once did myself. In addition, I am interested in the science behind meat-eating as I assume original diets are much

healthier than what we eat today. However, out of respect for my husband, a staunch animal rights activist and my youngest daughter, I would not entertain the notion of introducing meat even if I have great respect for WAP. Just wanted to let the group know that there are veg-heads out there who understand the other side.Regards,Janet

May 20, 2009

very well said.--- On Tue, 5/19/09, lostrin <lostrin wrote:

lostrin <lostrinRe: Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soup Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 5:21 PM

A few years ago I spent a lot of time as a breastfeeding counsellor. Women on the edge of deciding between breast and bottle were much more open to our information when given with total acceptance. Some decided to go bottle. The next pregnancy I noticed they were much more prepared to breastfeed before the baby was born because they received non-judgmental support from our group.On the contrary, some mothers in the group who were rudely pro-breastfeeders somehow felt it necessary to scold the bottle feeding mothers. Those mothers then left the group and never came back.If we feel the need to convey information the method of delivery will make or break acceptance of it by the listener.As a vegetarian for many years I could never feel badly about those who ate meat, after all, I once did myself. In addition, I am interested in the science behind meat-eating as I assume original diets are much

healthier than what we eat today. However, out of respect for my husband, a staunch animal rights activist and my youngest daughter, I would not entertain the notion of introducing meat even if I have great respect for WAP. Just wanted to let the group know that there are veg-heads out there who understand the other side.Regards,Janet

May 20, 2009

Tammatha,

Beware of Veganaise... it is made from canola oil. This comes from a GM version of the rape seed plant and is highly toxic. It contains small amounts of erucic acid. In lab studies this has caused premature deaths to rats from fatty degeneration of the liver, kidneys, adrenal glands, and thyroid. It is an industrial solvent and insecticide! Next time you go to Home Depot check it out... one product they carry is pure canola oil.

Bob

-

Tammatha

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup , "hemnancy" <hemnancy wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup , "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@> wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

May 20, 2009

Tammatha,

Here's the link to an article about toxic canola oil.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/canolaoil.htm

Bob

-

Tammatha

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup , "hemnancy" <hemnancy wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup , "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@> wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

May 21, 2009

Hi Bob,

Thank you I aware of Canola and how bad it is....the Veganaise I'm speaking about is made with Grapeseed or Grapefruit Seed extract I can't remember which. The main one does have Canola. I should of stated this, thought about it afterward.

Tammatha

-

Bob Banever

oleander soup

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:04 AM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Tammatha,

Here's the link to an article about toxic canola oil.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/canolaoil.htm

Bob

-

Tammatha

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup , "hemnancy" <hemnancy wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup , "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@> wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

May 21, 2009

Hi Everyone,I realize I am weighing in very late into this conversation. I have been out of town, but this topic is VERY dear to my heart. I totally appreciate Cheryl's concerns, as they were mine a few months ago. I actually broached this very subject then, but it did not generate much discussion. I have been a Vegetarian three times in my life. The first two times I got very sick. The third time was when I was diagnosed with cancer. I have always eaten a pretty good diet; not much processed food, veges from my parents' garden, plenty of fresh air and pure water. I grew up eating unfarmed fish, and chicken that was running around in our back yard, eggs we collected ourselves and raw milk from a farmer down the road. In University I decided to go

Vegetarian and over a period of 6 months I became very sick. Later, whilst nursing overseas I tried vegetarianism again and I immediately had no energy, craved meat, and I caught every cold under the sun.Then, late last year I became a vegetarian again. I read the China study and I was convinced that I needed to be one to beat my Sarcoma. I was ready to transition to be a vegan and was preparing to purchase a dehydrator for food variety. However the months went by and I still had no energy; I had low blood sugar most of the time, I couldn't eat enough to be satisfied and even had to eat in the middle of the night because my body wasn't able to get enough protein. I felt guilty that I ate turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas. That emotion is just as destructive as if I had eaten the dessert on the table.I have been testing my saliva pH for a long time now.. I was always so despondent that even though I

was eating the diet that was supposedly the one to cure cancer, it certainly wasn't very kind to me. It is really terrifying to be eating "right" and

have a pH of 6.0 or 6.5 on a good day. Whenever I 'strayed' and had a piece of fish or hormone free chicken, my pH suddenly soared! Even the good grains like Amaranth, Quinoa, Buckwheat, Millet make my pH take a plunge.I have undergone Metabolic Typing here in Australia.. That was a journey in itself! Initially I was eating lamb and a salad for breakfast! However by increasing my Omega 3 levels, and balancing my animal fats with

a similar amount of plant fats, I have cut down on the meat I eat, I have totally cut out red meat and

I still feel good. But it was a journey my body needed to make. I now have so much more energy, don't have to worry about whether I am eating the right thing.. My body is telling me it is getting the fuel it needs by my energy, mental clarity and pH levels. I make sure I get the raw veges I need, too. The animal produce I source is from animals that are grass fed, hormone and antibiotic free and have not lived and died in a stressful way. The most important thing is that I am convinced I am on the right track for my body - no more guilt! I believe that

although God created us all equal, He also created us as unique beings with very individual body chemistry and requirements. It comes as no surprise to me that my body, which grew a Liposarcoma (a cancer of the connective tissue) needs lots of easily assimilable protein to regenerate itself again. My dietary requirements seem to have changed a lot over the last year, and if at some time I can manage it, I will happily progress toward being a Vegetarian again. But not at the expense of my life. It is a gift, and I need to be the best steward of my health and life I can be.Blessings, Eva.--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Tammatha <tammatha wrote:Tammatha <tammathaRe: Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soup Date:

Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:18 PM

Hi Bob,

Thank you I aware of Canola and how bad it is....the Veganaise I'm speaking about is made with Grapeseed or Grapefruit Seed extract I can't remember which. The main one does have Canola. I should of stated this, thought about it afterward.

Tammatha

-

Bob Banever

oleander soup

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:04 AM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Tammatha,

Here's the link to an article about toxic canola oil.

http://www.truthorf iction.com/ rumors/c/ canolaoil. htm

Bob

-

Tammatha

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup, "hemnancy" <hemnancy@.. .> wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup, "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@ > wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup, "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog. com/arsenic- in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

May 21, 2009

Glad you weighed in on this Eva,

It would seem that we have very similar needs. After watching me struggle for

the past 6 months my Homeopathic Doctor and family doctor have determined that I

too need a certain amount of animal protein. I keep it to a bare minimum but I

am enjoying better health, a higher PH, and more energy. We are not created

equal and some of us come from a cultural background and blood type that just

won't allow us to escape our own destinies....rejoice and live guilt free.

Cheryl

oleander soup , eklein.otis wrote:

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I realize I am weighing in very late into this conversation. I have been out

of town, but this topic is VERY dear to my heart. I totally appreciate Cheryl's

concerns, as they were mine a few months ago. I actually broached this very

subject then, but it did not generate much discussion.

>

> I have been a Vegetarian three times in my life. The first two times I got

very sick. The third time was when I was diagnosed with cancer. I have always

eaten a pretty good diet; not much processed food, veges from my parents'

garden, plenty of fresh air and pure water. I grew up eating unfarmed fish, and

chicken that was running around in our back yard, eggs we collected ourselves

and raw milk from a farmer down the road.

>

> In University I decided to go

> Vegetarian and over a period of 6 months I became very sick. Later, whilst

nursing overseas I tried vegetarianism again and I immediately had no energy,

craved meat, and I caught every cold under the sun.

>

> Then, late last year I became a vegetarian again. I read the China study and

I was convinced that I needed to be one to beat my Sarcoma. I was ready to

transition to be a vegan and was preparing to purchase a dehydrator for food

variety. However the months went by and I still had no energy; I had low blood

sugar most of the time, I couldn't eat enough to be satisfied and even had to

eat in the middle of the night because my body wasn't able to get enough

protein. I felt guilty that I ate turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas. That

emotion is just as destructive as if I had eaten the dessert on the table.

>

> I have been testing my saliva pH for a long time now. I was always so

despondent that even though I was eating the diet that was supposedly the one to

cure cancer, it certainly wasn't very kind to me. It is really terrifying to be

eating " right " and

> have a pH of 6.0 or 6.5 on a good day. Whenever I 'strayed' and had a piece

of fish or hormone free chicken, my pH suddenly soared! Even the good grains

like Amaranth, Quinoa, Buckwheat, Millet make my pH take a plunge.

>

> I have undergone Metabolic Typing here in Australia. That was a journey in

itself! Initially I was eating lamb and a salad for breakfast! However by

increasing my Omega 3 levels, and balancing my animal fats with

> a similar amount of plant fats, I have cut down on the meat I eat, I have

totally cut out red meat and

> I still feel good. But it was a journey my body needed to make. I now have so

much more energy, don't have to worry about whether I am eating the right

thing. My body is telling me it is getting the fuel it needs by my energy,

mental clarity and pH levels. I make sure I get the raw veges I need, too. The

animal produce I source is from animals that are grass fed, hormone and

antibiotic free and have not lived and died in a stressful way. The most

important thing is that I am convinced I am on the right track for my body - no

more guilt!

>

> I believe that

> although God created us all equal, He also created us as unique beings with

very individual body chemistry and requirements. It comes as no surprise to me

that my body, which grew a Liposarcoma (a cancer of the connective tissue) needs

lots of easily assimilable protein to regenerate itself again. My dietary

requirements seem to have changed a lot over the last year, and if at some time

I can manage it, I will happily progress toward being a Vegetarian again. But

not at the expense of my life. It is a gift, and I need to be the best steward

of my health and life I can be.

>

> Blessings, Eva.

>

> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Tammatha <tammatha wrote:

>

> Tammatha <tammatha

> Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

> oleander soup

> Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:18 PM

>

Hi Bob,

> Thank you I aware of Canola and how

> bad it is....the Veganaise I'm speaking about is made with Grapeseed or

> Grapefruit Seed extract I can't remember which. The main one does have Canola.

I

> should of stated this, thought about it afterward.

>

> Tammatha

>

> -

>

> Bob

> Banever

> oleander soup

>

> Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:04

> AM

> Re: Re: Doomed

> Carnivoire

>

> Tammatha,

>

> Here's the link to

> an article about toxic canola oil.

>

> http://www.truthorf iction..com/ rumors/c/ canolaoil. htm

>

> Bob

>

> -

> Tammatha

>

> oleander soup

>

> Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16

> PM

> Re: Re: Doomed

> Carnivoire

>

> Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a

> fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy

> and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk

> and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent

> too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu

> wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is

> incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores

and

> on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives

> you'll be amazed at the variety!

>

> Tammatha

>

> -

> Sonya

> oleander soup

>

> Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59

> PM

> Re: Doomed

> Carnivoire

>

> Hello Nancy,

> If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt

> before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you

> need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule

> form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or

> other fermented foods......

>

> You mention that you don't know what

> you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for

> breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender

with

> a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk

> over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I

> know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from

the

> SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and

> then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the

> freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge

it

> goes... Instant breakfast!!!

>

> For cheese, that was hard for me too

> at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that

is

> to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one

thing

> I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in

" __________

> cheese " coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask

if

> they offer any coupons...

> I hope this helps some..

> Sonya

> SE

> MIchigan

>

> oleander soup,

> " hemnancy " <hemnancy@ .> wrote:

> >

> > Cheryl- I

> became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig

diet

> 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat,

> is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc.. A knee ligament injury of 9

months

> finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that

the

> Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is

> used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use

> yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that

> makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with

5

> raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What

would

> vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed

to

> it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.

> >

> > I eat

> vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc.

> What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is

> expensive.

> >

> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main

> course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains

like

> buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by

> topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I

> also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery,

greens,

> vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake

> mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of

the

> above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.

> >

>

> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up,

> especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I

> suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't

know

> why.

> >

> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy

> that is not expensive or soy?

> >

> > Nancy

> > oleander soup,

> " cherylcampbell55 " <cheryl.s.campbell@ > wrote:

> >

> > > Dear fellow posters,

> > >

> > > With all

> due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent.. I have lung

cancer

> with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in

> Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a

Ketogenic

> diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with

> three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an

> issue that concerns me greatly.

> > >

> > > On the other

> hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have

taken

> the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the

> one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very

> long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that

manner

> (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I

> choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume

> and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised

or

> slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between

> vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.

> >

> > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my

> post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a

> very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find

> our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us

> together in this place along with our health issues and while diet

> protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths

in

> that regard.

> > >

> > > I accept responsibility for

> inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public

> forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the

forefront.

> That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I

> will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on

> recovery.

> > >

> > > The very best of health and a long

> future to everyone,

> > > Cheryl

> > >

>

> > > oleander soup,

> " Tammatha " <tammatha@> wrote:

> > > >

> Another must read book " Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of

> Animals, The Call To Mercy " . It is about self examination and our humans

> thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't

let

> you look the other way.

> > > >

> Tammatha

> > > > -

> > > >

> shaman_urban

> > > > oleander soup

>

> > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM

> > > >

> Re: Doomed Carnivoire

> > > >

> >

> > >

> > > >

>

> > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a

> vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'

> > > >

>

> > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about

> the links of animal proteins and cancer.

> > > >

> > >

> > Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse "

> > > >

> > >

> > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or

> youtube

> > > >

> > > > I guarantee that you will

> never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from

> unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows

and

> junk food, the change was easy..

> > > >

> > > > it

> take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be

> pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new

> tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very

> fatty.

> > > >

> > > > A lot of people give up

> simply because they don't know what to cook anymore.

> > > > We

> are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then

> Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare

> Japanese sushi :-)

> > > >

> > > > Would you like to

> know what is in your chicken ? just read :

> > > >

> > >

> > http://www.jmbblog. com/arsenic- in-our-chicken/

> >

> > >

> > > > Bon appetit :-)

> > > >

> >

>

May 22, 2009

Hi Cheryl,it is very exciting when you have a breakthrough like this isn't it! I understand about the cultural needs. Although I live in Australia, I am genetically 100% German and we tend to lean more to the animal protein side of things. I see the differences between my parents and sister. My dad and sister definitely need more animal protein as they are fast oxidizers - my mum on the other hand can't understand why my dad is constantly needing food, yet she is totally satisfied on the mostly vegetarian diet she feeds him.Peace and health to you too,Eva.

June 8, 2009

No doubt a mostly raw and mostly vegan diet is the healthiest for most people, especially those battling serious illness such as cancer. Mankind, however, is distinctively NOT a vegetarian, did not develop as one and has not lived as one for many thousands of years.

Those who determine to pursue a vegan lifestyle for health and/or ethical reasons should research the subject well and objectively and should plan meticulously to insure against missing out on vital nutrients that are often missing from a typical vegan diet (especially those who think that all it takes to be a healthy vegan is simply to stop eating meat).

Though it contains some very valuable information, in my considered opinion the China Study is fatally flawed in many respects - one of the foremost being the obvious bias of the author who began and produced the text.

Just my two cents, but I have spent more than a few pennies and hours researching this subject.

Tony with the sore rear end . . .--- On Thu, 5/21/09, eklein.otis <eklein.otis wrote:

eklein.otis <eklein.otisRe: Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soup Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 5:05 AM

Hi Everyone,I realize I am weighing in very late into this conversation. I have been out of town, but this topic is VERY dear to my heart. I totally appreciate Cheryl's concerns, as they were mine a few months ago. I actually broached this very subject then, but it did not generate much discussion. I have been a Vegetarian three times in my life. The first two times I got very sick. The third time was when I was diagnosed with cancer. I have always eaten a pretty good diet; not much processed food, veges from my parents' garden, plenty of fresh air and pure water. I grew up eating unfarmed fish, and chicken that was running around in our back yard, eggs we collected ourselves and raw milk from a farmer down the road. In University I decided to go Vegetarian and over a period of 6 months I became very sick. Later, whilst nursing overseas I tried

vegetarianism again and I immediately had no energy, craved meat, and I caught every cold under the sun.Then, late last year I became a vegetarian again. I read the China study and I was convinced that I needed to be one to beat my Sarcoma. I was ready to transition to be a vegan and was preparing to purchase a dehydrator for food variety. However the months went by and I still had no energy; I had low blood sugar most of the time, I couldn't eat enough to be satisfied and even had to eat in the middle of the night because my body wasn't able to get enough protein. I felt guilty that I ate turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas. That emotion is just as destructive as if I had eaten the dessert on the table.I have been testing my saliva pH for a long time now.. I was always so despondent that even though I was eating the diet that was supposedly the one to cure cancer, it certainly wasn't very kind to me.

It is really terrifying to be eating "right" and have a pH of 6.0 or 6.5 on a good day. Whenever I 'strayed' and had a piece of fish or hormone free chicken, my pH suddenly soared! Even the good grains like Amaranth, Quinoa, Buckwheat, Millet make my pH take a plunge.I have undergone Metabolic Typing here in Australia.. That was a journey in itself! Initially I was eating lamb and a salad for breakfast! However by increasing my Omega 3 levels, and balancing my animal fats with a similar amount of plant fats, I have cut down on the meat I eat, I have totally cut out red meat and I still feel good. But it was a journey my body needed to make. I now have so much more energy, don't have to worry about whether I am eating the right thing.. My body is telling me it is getting the fuel it needs by my energy, mental clarity and pH levels. I make sure I get the raw veges I need, too. The animal

produce I source is from animals that are grass fed, hormone and antibiotic free and have not lived and died in a stressful way. The most important thing is that I am convinced I am on the right track for my body - no more guilt! I believe that although God created us all equal, He also created us as unique beings with very individual body chemistry and requirements. It comes as no surprise to me that my body, which grew a Liposarcoma (a cancer of the connective tissue) needs lots of easily assimilable protein to regenerate itself again. My dietary requirements seem to have changed a lot over the last year, and if at some time I can manage it, I will happily progress toward being a Vegetarian again. But not at the expense of my life. It is a gift, and I need to be the best steward of my health and life I can be.Blessings, Eva.--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Tammatha <tammatha (AT) sonic (DOT)

net> wrote:

Tammatha <tammatha (AT) sonic (DOT) net>Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soupWednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:18 PM

Hi Bob,

Thank you I aware of Canola and how bad it is....the Veganaise I'm speaking about is made with Grapeseed or Grapefruit Seed extract I can't remember which. The main one does have Canola. I should of stated this, thought about it afterward.

Tammatha

-

Bob Banever

oleander soup

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:04 AM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Tammatha,

Here's the link to an article about toxic canola oil.

http://www.truthorf iction.com/ rumors/c/ canolaoil. htm

Bob

-

Tammatha

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

Re: Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Rejuvelac and non dairy Kefirs are a fantastic way to get probiotics. Cashews are naturally very creamy and make excellent milk substitutes, there is also coconut milk and yougurt, hemp milk, almond milk. Sonya is right kim chee is excellent too. There is also a great product called Veganaise to make eggless tofu wraps and sandwiches if you want as well. If you miss ice cream there is incredible raw ice cream you can purchase at certain health food stores and on the internet. Jump on the internet and punch in vegans alternatives you'll be amazed at the variety!

Tammatha

-

Sonya

oleander soup

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Re: Doomed Carnivoire

Hello Nancy,If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods......You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant

breakfast!!!For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in "__________ cheese" coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons...I hope this helps some..SonyaSE MIchiganoleander soup, "hemnancy" <hemnancy@.. .> wrote:>> Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay,

Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland.> > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive.> > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or

cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish.> > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why.> > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy?> > Nancy> oleander soup, "cherylcampbell55" <cheryl.s.campbell@ > wrote:> >> > Dear fellow posters,> > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing

brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.> > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that

this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.> > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.> > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone,> > Cheryl> > > > > > oleander soup, "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> > >> > > Another must read book "Dominion

The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > > > > > Tammatha> > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > > > > > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> >

> > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your

chicken ? just read :> > > > > > http://www.jmbblog. com/arsenic- in-our-chicken/> > > > > > Bon appetit :-)> > >> >>

June 10, 2009

i have no argument... i can only speak from my personal experience with a

friend who is cured of cancer eating raw MEAT...grass fed! she follows aajonus

vonderplantz protocol. also have had conversations with others who follow

aajonus, and they swear by it so, therefore, i am confused when reading your

theory or findings.

i did try the raw meat diet and within one week, gave up cause it was a chore

for me.

diana who just wants to know the TRUTH

oleander soup , Tony Isaacs wrote:

>

> No doubt a mostly raw and mostly vegan diet is the healthiest for most people,

especially those battling serious illness such as cancer.ï¿½ Mankind, however,

is distinctively NOT a vegetarian, did not develop as one and has not lived as

one for many thousands of years.

> ï¿½

> Those who determine to pursue a vegan lifestyle for health and/or ethical

reasons should research the subject well and objectively and should plan

meticulously to insure against missing out on vital nutrients that are often

missing from a typical vegan diet (especially those who think that all it takes

to be a healthy vegan is simply to stop eating meat).

> ï¿½

> Though it contains some very valuable information, in my considered opinion

the China Study is fatally flawed in many respects - one of the foremost being

the obvious bias of the author who began and produced the text.

> ï¿½

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