Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 No I haven't any struggles but then I'm vegan....I'll tell you what makes it easy, take a look at some factory farming videos it will tear you up emotionally, you'll never want to eat animals again. They say if factory farms had glass walls everyone would be vegan. Also, what harm animal farming does to the planet (lakes, streams, oceans, greenhouse gasses, etc). Not eating animal flesh or by-products is the single greatest thing you can do to minimize your carbon footprint, this fact makes it easy for me, plus of course not contributing to the pain and suffering of the animals. Animals are here for their own reasons not for us. There is a fantastic book out called the " The World Peace Diet" it is so real. Tammatha - cherylcampbell55 oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 12:01 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone-free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hi Cheryl, I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild.comWith blessings of health & happiness,Lynecherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbelloleander soup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )' It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer. Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse " Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy.. it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-) Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read : http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/ Bon appetit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Wow, I'm so glad to see other vegan's on here... I'm new, so this will be great... I was so pleased to see you mention The world Peace Diet book... I know Dr. Will and have actually baked him a vegan cake that looked like his book when he did an event at our local land stewardship center.. His book is fabulous. I'm not sure if I can post a web address or not here, but if you type in Dr. Will Tuttle into the search box, you will find Will's website. Also, If anyone is interested in vegan food, I also demonstrate vegan food for education and would be happy to share some recipes. Kindly, Sonya oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote: > > No I haven't any struggles but then I'm vegan....I'll tell you what makes it easy, take a look at some factory farming videos it will tear you up emotionally, you'll never want to eat animals again. They say if factory farms had glass walls everyone would be vegan. Also, what harm animal farming does to the planet (lakes, streams, oceans, greenhouse gasses, etc). Not eating animal flesh or by-products is the single greatest thing you can do to minimize your carbon footprint, this fact makes it easy for me, plus of course not contributing to the pain and suffering of the animals. Animals are here for their own reasons not for us. There is a fantastic book out called the " The World Peace Diet " it is so real. > > > Tammatha > - > cherylcampbell55 > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 12:01 AM > Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone-free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? > Cheryl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Yes Sonya, of course you can post the website. Hugs, oleander soup , "Sonya" <talking2sonya wrote:>> Wow, I'm so glad to see other vegan's on here... I'm new, so this will be great... I was so pleased to see you mention The world Peace Diet book... I know Dr. Will and have actually baked him a vegan cake that looked like his book when he did an event at our local land stewardship center.. His book is fabulous. I'm not sure if I can post a web address or not here, but if you type in Dr. Will Tuttle into the search box, you will find Will's website.> > Also, If anyone is interested in vegan food, I also demonstrate vegan food for education and would be happy to share some recipes.> Kindly,> Sonya> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 You mean I'm not the only vegan? Yipee! Nice to hear Sonya, yes I have heard Will speak on the internet he is an incredible man, I get a daily affirmation sent via email from him speaking of veganism and being kind to other species not using them for our own purposes etc, it is awesome. If eating animals is so right why is it destroying our planet? That is my take on it anyway. Plus the health values are endless especially for people with immune deficiencies cancer being one of them. Nice to hear you have recipes vegan food is delicious many think it is tasteless, but quite the contrary! Coconut and cashews replace dairy for creaminess. Tammatha - May oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 7:36 PM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Yes Sonya, of course you can post the website. Hugs, oleander soup , "Sonya" <talking2sonya wrote:>> Wow, I'm so glad to see other vegan's on here... I'm new, so this will be great... I was so pleased to see you mention The world Peace Diet book... I know Dr. Will and have actually baked him a vegan cake that looked like his book when he did an event at our local land stewardship center.. His book is fabulous. I'm not sure if I can post a web address or not here, but if you type in Dr. Will Tuttle into the search box, you will find Will's website.> > Also, If anyone is interested in vegan food, I also demonstrate vegan food for education and would be happy to share some recipes.> Kindly,> Sonya> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study". Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called "Raw Emotion". The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. Tammatha - Lyne Seppala oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Hi Cheryl, I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild.comWith blessings of health & happiness,Lyne cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell >oleander soup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way. Tammatha - shaman_urban oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM Re: Doomed Carnivoire in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtubeI guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/Bon appetit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Dear fellow posters, With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received. Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard. I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery. The very best of health and a long future to everyone, Cheryl oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote: > > Another must read book " Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy " . It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way. > > Tammatha > - > shaman_urban > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )' > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer. > > Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse " > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy.. > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-) > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read : > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/ > > Bon appetit :-) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 just to clarify, I'm new to this group, not to being vegan... oleander soup , " Sonya " <talking2sonya wrote: > > Wow, I'm so glad to see other vegan's on here... I'm new, so this will be great... I was so pleased to see you mention The world Peace Diet book... I know Dr. Will and have actually baked him a vegan cake that looked like his book when he did an event at our local land stewardship center.. His book is fabulous. I'm not sure if I can post a web address or not here, but if you type in Dr. Will Tuttle into the search box, you will find Will's website. > > Also, If anyone is interested in vegan food, I also demonstrate vegan food for education and would be happy to share some recipes. > Kindly, > Sonya > > oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha@> wrote: > > > > No I haven't any struggles but then I'm vegan....I'll tell you what makes it easy, take a look at some factory farming videos it will tear you up emotionally, you'll never want to eat animals again. They say if factory farms had glass walls everyone would be vegan. Also, what harm animal farming does to the planet (lakes, streams, oceans, greenhouse gasses, etc). Not eating animal flesh or by-products is the single greatest thing you can do to minimize your carbon footprint, this fact makes it easy for me, plus of course not contributing to the pain and suffering of the animals. Animals are here for their own reasons not for us. There is a fantastic book out called the " The World Peace Diet " it is so real. > > > > > > Tammatha > > - > > cherylcampbell55 > > oleander soup > > Monday, May 18, 2009 12:01 AM > > Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone-free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? > > Cheryl > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Surprising enough, I had a little girl in my daycare a few years ago that I had since she was a baby... anyway, she was about 5 or 6 and we had gone for a walk and we get half way and she is doing the " I gotta go pee dance " so I ask if she thinks she can wait and she says " NO " and by the dance she was doing I knew she wasn't playing... so I took her down the side of a hill and let her do her thing... WELL, she tipped sideways and I thougth I saw a dark patch of hair... I asked my assistant if she was what I saw and she said she thought so.... I mentioned to the mom what had happened and I said... " i think I saw some adult hair on her OR she has been playing in the mud... MOM said " OH, you didn't know that? " HELLO, NO!!!! she said that she started getting hair about 4 years old... " WHAT? " she said that it was from the hormones in the food... If I hadn't seen it first hand, I wouldn't have believed it.... And as for the cows milk... we are not baby cows!!! Cows milk is made for a 250-300 pound baby cow.. not a 40 or 50 pound child... Our aim in education is more to show how good vegan food can taste. Generally once the notion of vegan/vegetarian tasting bad is dispelled, one has a more open mind to learn more... I just did a vegan demo at an earthday celebration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myzO5A2I9PE and found many people commenting about tofu... I make a tihini house dressing that everyone loved.. when they asked what was in it and I said tofu, they wrinkled their nose and said.. " I don't like tofu, but this is good " I always share that it is all in how it is prepared... Sonya SE Michigan oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote: > > Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study " . Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? > We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called " Raw Emotion " . The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. > > Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire Hi Cheryl, > I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. > For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to " the girls " out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. > I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. > If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild.com > > With blessings of health & happiness, > Lyne > > > > > > cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM > Doomed Carnivoire > > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? > Cheryl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Shame I didn't get that book when I bought my hunting license! Bambi never looked better then at the end of my barrel! Yum Ill quit eating meat when I'm dead, then maybe someone will eat me too! Its the circle of life! After all we are all animals aren't we? If I'm ever in a situation ill try to talk the bear (that's about to eat my arse)into reading some books about why he should not eat me! On 5/18/09, Tammatha <tammatha wrote: > Another must read book " Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, > The Call To Mercy " . It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of > power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the > other way. > > Tammatha > - > shaman_urban > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( > organic, no processed food )' > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal > proteins and cancer. > > Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse " > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless > chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of > advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy.. > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be > pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new > tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook > anymore. > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, > then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare > Japanese sushi :-) > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read : > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/ > > Bon appetit :-) > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Dear Tammatha, As this is an open forum for discussing various options that people can incorporate in to their lives, I feel it is very important that we all bring tolerance and unconditional acceptance to our keyboards along with our opinions. While I myself would never undergo chemo or radiation if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would never insult or berate someone who did choose that path. Whether I feel it is wrong or right, what right do I have to judge another person for what they choose to do? I have spent a little more than the last 20 years of my professional life helping people to heal from various diseases and health issues. My role has always been about supporting them in what is right for them as they follow their path. I do not dictate to anyone or bully anyone to do what I think is right. And believe me, I have treated many vegetarians and vegans over the years that had heart disease, diabetes, cancers, infertility, obesity, wiped out adrenal systems, polycystic ovary syndrome, ADD/ADHD, erectile dysfunction, complications during pregnancy, and the list could go on and on. Believe me when I say, the hardest lesson I ever had to learn as a doctor is that every single one of my patients are going to die - and so am I. It isn't about living forever, but that we live our lives in a good way. With integrity, compassion, and love. And true to our own spirit. When someone asks an open question to the group, I feel we all have a right to share our opinion. I don't expect others to accept what I say as The Truth - meaning the one and only way; but maybe with the intention of taking anything good or positive from what I wrote and to let whatever else was said that didn't resonate with them, simple be carried away on the wind. With blessings of health & happiness,Lyne Tammatha <tammathaoleander soup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:50:18 PMRe: Doomed Carnivoire Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study". Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called "Raw Emotion". The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. Tammatha - Lyne Seppala oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Hi Cheryl, I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild. comWith blessings of health & happiness,Lyne cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell@ gmail.com>oleander soupMonday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Lyne, I use the same beliefs in my N.J. practice. Thank you for your very candid and very real answers. I too , believe that this forum is to share information we possess with all. We can only share what we know and have seen. I have never responded with anything other then what I have experienced personally. Who is to say what works or does not? Each person is different. And I encourage all reading these very important posts, to chime in with their experiences too. Please do not be afraid, we are all friends, striving to help everyone. Your information can make someone healthier and save untold lives. Thank you all for being a part of this forum! Rich In a message dated 5/19/2009 3:45:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pinkmartini62 writes: Dear Tammatha, As this is an open forum for discussing various options that people can incorporate in to their lives, I feel it is very important that we all bring tolerance and unconditional acceptance to our keyboards along with our opinions. While I myself would never undergo chemo or radiation if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would never insult or berate someone who did choose that path. Whether I feel it is wrong or right, what right do I have to judge another person for what they choose to do? I have spent a little more than the last 20 years of my professional life helping people to heal from various diseases and health issues. My role has always been about supporting them in what is right for them as they follow their path. I do not dictate to anyone or bully anyone to do what I think is right. And believe me, I have treated many vegetarians and vegans over the years that had heart disease, diabetes, cancers, infertility, obesity, wiped out adrenal systems, polycystic ovary syndrome, ADD/ADHD, erectile dysfunction, complications during pregnancy, and the list could go on and on. Believe me when I say, the hardest lesson I ever had to learn as a doctor is that every single one of my patients are going to die - and so am I. It isn't about living forever, but that we live our lives in a good way. With integrity, compassion, and love. And true to our own spirit. When someone asks an open question to the group, I feel we all have a right to share our opinion. I don't expect others to accept what I say as The Truth - meaning the one and only way; but maybe with the intention of taking anything good or positive from what I wrote and to let whatever else was said that didn't resonate with them, simple be carried away on the wind. With blessings of health & happiness,Lyne Tammatha <tammathaoleander soup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:50:18 PMRe: Doomed Carnivoire Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study". Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called "Raw Emotion". The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. Tammatha - Lyne Seppala oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Hi Cheryl, I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild. comWith blessings of health & happiness,Lyne cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell@ gmail.com>oleander soupMonday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?Cheryl Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Well that is alright do not become enlightened....to care for yourself is to care for everything. Tammatha - cherylcampbell55 oleander soup Monday, May 18, 2009 10:32 PM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Dear fellow posters,With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.The very best of health and a long future to everyone,Cheryloleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha wrote:>> Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > Tammatha> - > shaman_urban > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/> > Bon appetit :-)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 This isn't about acceptance it is about compassion and caring for the earth and other beings. Sometimes we must look outside of ourselves. We are not the be all end all and just because we are sick doesn't mean we just bulldoze ahead. This is the mentality that gets us to where we are. It is so typical of humans to put themselves first and not think of the repurcussions of what our actions inflict on others and our beautiful suffering planet. Being defensive gets us no where. I'm not pointing the finger, it is just the facts and reality, reality bites and sometimes the truth is hard to hear. Caring about other beings and the earth is only natural and if it offends others so be it. This is not a selfish or self serving act. Compassion should never be reprimanded. Tammatha - Lyne Seppala oleander soup Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:04 AM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Dear Tammatha, As this is an open forum for discussing various options that people can incorporate in to their lives, I feel it is very important that we all bring tolerance and unconditional acceptance to our keyboards along with our opinions. While I myself would never undergo chemo or radiation if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would never insult or berate someone who did choose that path. Whether I feel it is wrong or right, what right do I have to judge another person for what they choose to do? I have spent a little more than the last 20 years of my professional life helping people to heal from various diseases and health issues. My role has always been about supporting them in what is right for them as they follow their path. I do not dictate to anyone or bully anyone to do what I think is right. And believe me, I have treated many vegetarians and vegans over the years that had heart disease, diabetes, cancers, infertility, obesity, wiped out adrenal systems, polycystic ovary syndrome, ADD/ADHD, erectile dysfunction, complications during pregnancy, and the list could go on and on. Believe me when I say, the hardest lesson I ever had to learn as a doctor is that every single one of my patients are going to die - and so am I. It isn't about living forever, but that we live our lives in a good way. With integrity, compassion, and love. And true to our own spirit. When someone asks an open question to the group, I feel we all have a right to share our opinion. I don't expect others to accept what I say as The Truth - meaning the one and only way; but maybe with the intention of taking anything good or positive from what I wrote and to let whatever else was said that didn't resonate with them, simple be carried away on the wind. With blessings of health & happiness,Lyne Tammatha <tammatha (AT) sonic (DOT) net>oleander soup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:50:18 PMRe: Doomed Carnivoire Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study". Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called "Raw Emotion". The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. ! Tammatha - Lyne Seppala oleander soup/! a> Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM Re: Doomed Carnivoire Hi Cheryl, I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to "the girls" out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild. comWith blessings of health & happiness,Lyne cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell@ gmail.com>oleander soupMonday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM Doomed Carnivoire I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Well, it certainly has generated a great discussion! I so enjoyued reading everyone's input and the struggles to live animal proteirn free or not. After speaking with my doc this afternoon I feel I am doing fine on the animal protein issue. I agree that keeping it to a bare minimum is optimal for anyone with cancer and in particular me. Tammatha, with respect, I am 55, I have a PHd, I have been a guidian on this earth for most of my life, and I've read the China Study and many of the other texts you quote...be tranquil...live and let live..that stress is not good for you! Cheryl oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote: > > This isn't about acceptance it is about compassion and caring for the earth and other beings. Sometimes we must look outside of ourselves. We are not the be all end all and just because we are sick doesn't mean we just bulldoze ahead. This is the mentality that gets us to where we are. It is so typical of humans to put themselves first and not think of the repurcussions of what our actions inflict on others and our beautiful suffering planet. Being defensive gets us no where. I'm not pointing the finger, it is just the facts and reality, reality bites and sometimes the truth is hard to hear. Caring about other beings and the earth is only natural and if it offends others so be it. This is not a selfish or self serving act. Compassion should never be reprimanded. > > > Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:04 AM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire Dear Tammatha, > As this is an open forum for discussing various options that people can incorporate in to their lives, I feel it is very important that we all bring tolerance and unconditional acceptance to our keyboards along with our opinions. > While I myself would never undergo chemo or radiation if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would never insult or berate someone who did choose that path. Whether I feel it is wrong or right, what right do I have to judge another person for what they choose to do? > I have spent a little more than the last 20 years of my professional life helping people to heal from various diseases and health issues. My role has always been about supporting them in what is right for them as they follow their path. I do not dictate to anyone or bully anyone to do what I think is right. And believe me, I have treated many vegetarians and vegans over the years that had heart disease, diabetes, cancers, infertility, obesity, wiped out adrenal systems, polycystic ovary syndrome, ADD/ADHD, erectile dysfunction, complications during pregnancy, and the list could go on and on. > Believe me when I say, the hardest lesson I ever had to learn as a doctor is that every single one of my patients are going to die - and so am I. It isn't about living forever, but that we live our lives in a good way. With integrity, compassion, and love. And true to our own spirit. > When someone asks an open question to the group, I feel we all have a right to share our opinion. I don't expect others to accept what I say as The Truth - meaning the one and only way; but maybe with the intention of taking anything good or positive from what I wrote and to let whatever else was said that didn't resonate with them, simple be carried away on the wind. > > With blessings of health & happiness, > Lyne > > > > > Tammatha <tammatha > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:50:18 PM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study " . Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? > We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called " Raw Emotion " . The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. > > ! Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > Hi Cheryl, > I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. > For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to " the girls " out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. > I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. > If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild. com > > With blessings of health & happiness, > Lyne > > > > > ---------- > cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell@ gmail.com> > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM > Doomed Carnivoire > > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? > Cheryl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 **You mean I'm not the only vegan? ** __Hi Tammatha, I am currently transitioning to raw food vegan. Last night was my first veggie loaf. Portobello mushrooms, sunflower seeds and walnuts were the main ingredients with raw bbq sauce. It was delicious. Currently I have my first cracker recipe in the dehydrator. Cant wait to enjoy those! Blessings, Laura,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 A few years ago I spent a lot of time as a breastfeeding counsellor. Women on the edge of deciding between breast and bottle were much more open to our information when given with total acceptance. Some decided to go bottle. The next pregnancy I noticed they were much more prepared to breastfeed before the baby was born because they received non-judgmental support from our group. On the contrary, some mothers in the group who were rudely pro-breastfeeders somehow felt it necessary to scold the bottle feeding mothers. Those mothers then left the group and never came back.If we feel the need to convey information the method of delivery will make or break acceptance of it by the listener. As a vegetarian for many years I could never feel badly about those who ate meat, after all, I once did myself. In addition, I am interested in the science behind meat-eating as I assume original diets are much healthier than what we eat today. However, out of respect for my husband, a staunch animal rights activist and my youngest daughter, I would not entertain the notion of introducing meat even if I have great respect for WAP. Just wanted to let the group know that there are veg-heads out there who understand the other side.Regards,Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 All, I do believe that when it comes to taking the animals that i eat into consideration that there is reference in the bible to eating meat! And NOT against it. If it was good enough for the folks in biblical times its good enough for me in moderation! Im okay with my decision, I think God is too! Rhonda Cheryl, im glad that you met with your nurtionalist and made a decision on what you should do, it appears that making these decisions is the hardest thing to do. My son has an inoperable brain tumor and he is only 7. My thoughts and prayers are with you on your journey, and Im so terribly sorry your very innocent question turned into what it did. I personally dont like to be made to feel like im going to hell for eating the very animals that God put here for us to eat. I pray for your health and healing. With you in my heart Rhonda 2009/5/19 cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell Well, it certainly has generated a great discussion! I so enjoyued reading everyone's input and the struggles to live animal proteirn free or not. After speaking with my doc this afternoon I feel I am doing fine on the animal protein issue. I agree that keeping it to a bare minimum is optimal for anyone with cancer and in particular me. Tammatha, with respect, I am 55, I have a PHd, I have been a guidian on this earth for most of my life, and I've read the China Study and many of the other texts you quote...be tranquil...live and let live..that stress is not good for you! Cheryl oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote:> > This isn't about acceptance it is about compassion and caring for the earth and other beings. Sometimes we must look outside of ourselves. We are not the be all end all and just because we are sick doesn't mean we just bulldoze ahead. This is the mentality that gets us to where we are. It is so typical of humans to put themselves first and not think of the repurcussions of what our actions inflict on others and our beautiful suffering planet. Being defensive gets us no where. I'm not pointing the finger, it is just the facts and reality, reality bites and sometimes the truth is hard to hear. Caring about other beings and the earth is only natural and if it offends others so be it. This is not a selfish or self serving act. Compassion should never be reprimanded. > > > Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:04 AM > Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > > Dear Tammatha,> As this is an open forum for discussing various options that people can incorporate in to their lives, I feel it is very important that we all bring tolerance and unconditional acceptance to our keyboards along with our opinions. > While I myself would never undergo chemo or radiation if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would never insult or berate someone who did choose that path. Whether I feel it is wrong or right, what right do I have to judge another person for what they choose to do? > I have spent a little more than the last 20 years of my professional life helping people to heal from various diseases and health issues. My role has always been about supporting them in what is right for them as they follow their path. I do not dictate to anyone or bully anyone to do what I think is right. And believe me, I have treated many vegetarians and vegans over the years that had heart disease, diabetes, cancers, infertility, obesity, wiped out adrenal systems, polycystic ovary syndrome, ADD/ADHD, erectile dysfunction, complications during pregnancy, and the list could go on and on. > Believe me when I say, the hardest lesson I ever had to learn as a doctor is that every single one of my patients are going to die - and so am I. It isn't about living forever, but that we live our lives in a good way. With integrity, compassion, and love. And true to our own spirit. > When someone asks an open question to the group, I feel we all have a right to share our opinion. I don't expect others to accept what I say as The Truth - meaning the one and only way; but maybe with the intention of taking anything good or positive from what I wrote and to let whatever else was said that didn't resonate with them, simple be carried away on the wind. > > With blessings of health & happiness,> Lyne> > > > -------------------------> Tammatha <tammatha > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:50:18 PM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > Getting animal products from a farm still doesn't make it alright, the animals are still being killed for their flesh and being used, they are here for their own reasons. Some people can justify it thinking it comes from a farm. But reality is it is just a little tiny bit kinder... I guess. Conscience is tricky. If you feel you need it, then you need it. Our bodies do not need animal secretions and hatchings to be healthy, please read the book the 'China Study " . Regardless of where it comes from cows naturally have an abundant amount of hormones in their bodies which transfer to the human when eaten and also pus, which can't be seen in the dairy products. A baby calf does not drink our breast milk why should we be drinking their mothers? > We have been raised to believe much of what we consume so we think it is alright, it is really difficult to reprogram the old school of thinking. Much of food that is eaten is comfort, tis why much is called comfort food. There is another incredible book called " Raw Emotion " . The author Angela Stokes lost 300lbs on a raw vegan diet with no deprivation. This book speaks of all the emotional connections people have with food, it is much like a cigarettes and drugs. Very enlightening book. I'm sure most would love to lose a few pounds too and it difficult to find a overweight vegan. > > ! Tammatha > - > Lyne Seppala > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 AM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > Hi Cheryl,> I myself am a carnivore, and I am quite alright with it. I tried Vegan a couple of times, but my body was never satisfied. My overall health took a turn for the worse. I think some of us do fine without any animal products and others of us need them. All of the meat, dairy, and eggs that we eat are straight from the family farm. I know the family who provides our milk - I drive out to the farm each week and get it straight out of the tank. I meet another family once a month to buy my beef, pork, and chicken from. Their animals are all on pasture and they are always open to tour their farm at any time. One of my patients raises yaks and chickens, so I am able to trade her for eggs and yak meat. > For me, being connected with the people who produce our food is very important. I'm lucky I live in a state where that is possible. But my father, who lives in Las Vegas, NV is even a member of a raw milk buying club. So I think if you seek it out, you can find it. I express gratitude every time I see my friends, and will even offer up a Thank You to " the girls " out in the field as I drive away from the farm with my beautiful raw milk. > I agree with your N.D. - to put energy into worrying about it does no good. If you choose to continue to eat your animal based proteins, then try switching your thought process to being grateful to the animals and people who gave of themselves to bring that food to you. Ask that it only do good things for your body. And if you can seek out food that has been raised in a humane way and where you are able to connect with where your food comes from - I think it changes the whole level of consciousness about nourishment and truly feeding your body and spirit. > If you would like a resource to get more information, here is a great place to start. www.eatwild. com> > With blessings of health & happiness,> Lyne> > > > > ------------------------- > cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell@ gmail.com>> oleander soup> Monday, May 18, 2009 2:01:28 AM> Doomed Carnivoire > > > I'm just wondering if any of you struggle as much as I do with avoiding animal protein? In going over my menu/diet sheet with my Naturopathic doc this week I pointed out to her that I generally have 4 oz. or less of organic/hormone- free chicken or fish at each evening meal and that I worry about it. She suggested that the ratio of 70% raw/vegan/alkaline to 30% acid/animal/ needs to be viewed over a 24 hour period and in that regard my menu looked fine. She was much more concerned about 'my worrying' about it and said feeling guilty about it had the potential to do far more harm. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions? > Cheryl> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 dear Cherryl you asked a question and I tried to answer at the best of my ability with a simple program . Two books and few short vids. you wrote ; I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery. So I can try to answer again by making it easiest, not two books, but only one that you can read like a novel. it is a beautiful book by a very sensible and intelligent man. They gave him more than 15 years ago few month to live .. they were obviously wrong... That all I can said . I am not in the mood of enlightening anyone about animal proteins and cancer today for personal reason. Anticancer: A New Way of Life " After undergoing chemotherapy and surgery for brain cancer, Servan-Schreiber, a clinical professor of psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, asked his oncologist if any lifestyle changes would prevent a relapse; the answer was no. Certain this was wrong, Servan-Schreiber spent months researching a mass of scientific data on natural defenses against cancer. After a lucid introduction to cancer and its causes, he points out studies indicating that a poor diet, unhealthy habits (like smoking), some hormones, and environmental toxins increase risk. But as his advice grows more specific, evidence dwindles that these steps work. Eating organic foods, avoiding red meat and processed food, and eliminating household chemicals seem reasonable, but readers curious about how much turmeric or garlic to consume and how much it lowers their cancer risk will find no answers. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Cheryl, Thank you for your openness and conviction. Please let us know how we can help you. I will do whatever that is needed to help you through your challenge. And our group will also! This is a tremendous forum of fantastic people who care. We are all here for your success , love and happiness Rich NJ-USA In a message dated 5/19/2009 9:57:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wilson_cindyj writes: U go girl......To each,, their own...--- On Tue, 5/19/09, cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell wrote: cherylcampbell55 <cheryl.s.campbell Re: Doomed Carnivoireoleander soup Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 1:32 AM Dear fellow posters,With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received.Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard.I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery.The very best of health and a long future to everyone,Cheryloleander soup, "Tammatha" <tammatha@.. .> wrote:>> Another must read book "Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy". It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way.> > Tammatha> - > shaman_urban > oleander soup > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM> Re: Doomed Carnivoire> > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )'> > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer.> > Two : The book : "Slaughterhouse "> > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube> > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy..> > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-)> > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read :> > http://www.jmbblog. com/arsenic- in-our-chicken/> > Bon appetit :-)> Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Laura, Have you ever made flax crackers? Super yummy..... Sonya SE Michigan oleander soup , Laura <starflower wrote: > > > > **You mean I'm not the only vegan? ** > > > > __Hi Tammatha, > > I am currently transitioning to raw food vegan. Last night was my first > veggie loaf. Portobello mushrooms, sunflower seeds and walnuts were the main > ingredients with raw bbq sauce. It was delicious. Currently I have my first > cracker recipe in the dehydrator. Cant wait to enjoy those! > > > > Blessings, > > Laura,_._,___ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland. I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive. I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish. I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why. So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy? Nancy oleander soup , " cherylcampbell55 " <cheryl.s.campbell wrote: > > Dear fellow posters, > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received. > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard. > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery. > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone, > Cheryl > > > oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha@> wrote: > > > > Another must read book " Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy " . It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way. > > > > Tammatha > > - > > shaman_urban > > oleander soup > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )' > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer. > > > > Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse " > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy.. > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-) > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read : > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/ > > > > Bon appetit :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Hello Nancy, If my memory serves me right, I have seen rice yogurt before.. I can't say how it tastes... I would first ask why you feel you need yogurt? There are vegan friendly bacteria you can take in a capsule form OR, better yet you could implement some kim che into your diet or other fermented foods...... You mention that you don't know what you can sub for yogurt or cheese... to replace yogurt, say like for breakfast... I would take vanilla rice milk and put it into a blender with a banana and some kale or spinach... or I would soak oats in rice milk over night, then add some blueberries and then whiz it in a blender (I know that there is info out there about food combining, but going from the SAD diet to vegan has to be healthier)I make a blender full of this and then put the extras into single serving containers and then into the freezer they go... I pull one out the night before and into the fridge it goes... Instant breakfast!!! For cheese, that was hard for me too at first... a friend showed me how to make nutritional yeast gravy that is to die for... this is good for over veggies... and some pasta... one thing I found about the more expensive foods is that if you type in " __________ cheese " coupon online, you might find some OR call the company and ask if they offer any coupons... I hope this helps some.. Sonya SE MIchigan oleander soup , " hemnancy " <hemnancy wrote: > > Cheryl- I became a lacto and occasional Salmon-eating vegetarian for the Budwig diet 1 ½ years ago. I became convinced an acid diet, which is caused by meat, is can foster cancer, arthritis, etc. A knee ligament injury of 9 months finally healed, and I have felt good on the diet. The problem is that the Oleander protocol wants me to give up all animal protein, and dairy is used in the Budwig mainstay, Flaxseed Oil/ Cottage cheese- FOCC (I use yogurt). I don't know what to substitute for the cheese and yogurt that makes it easy for me to be a vegetarian. I eat a daily fruit salad with 5 raw fruits, Brazil nuts, yogurt, cinnamon, coconut, and honey. What would vegans substitute for the yogurt, don't say soy yogurt as I am opposed to it because of toxic effects on the Thyroid gland. > > I eat vegetables with cheese melted on them- squash, green beans, greens, etc. What would I use for the cheese? There is almond cheese but it is expensive. > > I eat a green salad for dinner and make a main course from the Johanna Budwig cookbook, and use beans, Budwig grains like buckwheat, Quinoa, and Amaranth, which I like to make like a pizza by topping with sauce, mushrooms, onions, garlic, vegetables, and cheese. I also like to make Oriental soup which IS vegan- Taro root, celery, greens, vegetables, soy sauce, coconut milk, basil or cilantro, Shiitake mushrooms, black fungus, almonds, bean or yam noodles, or add some of the above grains. That is probably my most frequent main dish. > > I've stopped eating eggs but cheese is a problem to give up, especially since I'm finding some nuts are irritants to my gut, as I suffer from IBS which got much worse after a year on Budwig, I don't know why. > > So, what do you vegans have to substitute for dairy that is not expensive or soy? > > Nancy > oleander soup , " cherylcampbell55 " <cheryl.s.campbell@> wrote: > > > > Dear fellow posters, > > > > With all due respect, when I posted it was with serious intent. I have lung cancer with brain mets and have been following a line of intersting research in Germany called the Wurtzburg Trials where scientists are using a Ketogenic diet as part of the protocol for curing brain cancers. As a person with three brain tumors and an inclination towards animal protein it is an issue that concerns me greatly. > > > > On the other hand, I am well versed in the opinions stated by the vegans who have taken the time to 'enlighten' me. It is easy to make assumptions based on the one-dimenional posts that we make. However, I happen to come from a very long line of vegans and much of my family live their lives in that manner (card carrying PETA members). I just do not happen to be one of them. I choose to know and live among the people who raise the animals I consume and my worries do not come from how those particular animals are raised or slaughtered. Though it appears that cancer doesn't discriminate between vegans and carnivoires based on the responses I have received. > > > > Thank you to those who understood the context of my post. I appreciate your thoughtful answers and recognize that this is a very individual issue. We are all fighting the same beast and must find our own way to win the greatest battle of our lives. Oleander brings us together in this place along with our health issues and while diet protocols are recommended it is clear we are following different paths in that regard. > > > > I accept responsibility for inviting these responses by placing my personal concerns in a public forum. This is a disease that bring many vulnerabilites to the forefront. That being said, I will not be reading the recommended books. Instead, I will be using a variety of techniques to remain worry free and focus on recovery. > > > > The very best of health and a long future to everyone, > > Cheryl > > > > > > oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha@> wrote: > > > > > > Another must read book " Dominion The Power of Man, The Suffering of Animals, The Call To Mercy " . It is about self examination and our humans thoughts of power over animals. It is quite a profound book that won't let you look the other way. > > > > > > Tammatha > > > - > > > shaman_urban > > > oleander soup > > > Monday, May 18, 2009 4:45 PM > > > Re: Doomed Carnivoire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my family none of us had trouble to switch to a vegetarians lifestyle ( organic, no processed food )' > > > > > > It was easy : first You read the " China STudy " about the links of animal proteins and cancer. > > > > > > Two : The book : " Slaughterhouse " > > > > > > Three :Go to watch short movies on slaughtering on PETA site or youtube > > > > > > I guarantee that you will never struggle anymore to avoid eating ageless chunk of corpse from unknown provenance. Despite the thousands of advertising on happy cows and junk food, the change was easy.. > > > > > > it take a while to adjust to the new diet but after few weeks you will be pleased by the results. The trick is to deprogram the taste buds for new tastes , it take about 15 days if you don't relapse on something very fatty. > > > > > > A lot of people give up simply because they don't know what to cook anymore. > > > We are continuously learning new recipes. first it was Indian cuisine, then Thai, now at the end of this week we will be taught how to prepare Japanese sushi :-) > > > > > > Would you like to know what is in your chicken ? just read : > > > > > > http://www.jmbblog.com/arsenic-in-our-chicken/ > > > > > > Bon appetit :-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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