The Angry Healer

[Guest guest]

I would like to ad a couple of things to this discussion .

 

Firstly there a big difference between Rage and Anger. Rage, like road rage etc is an expression of powerlessness while anger is usually the healthy expression to a boundary being crossed.

 

When I start to treat a patient if they come back and tell me they are feeling a lot more anger I know their wood element is coming back to life and they are getting better.

 

5 Element acupuncture aims to help a person grow and change. So in that case my job is help the patient have this renewed emotion without dumping it on others or feeling overwhelm etc.

 

When J.R. Worsley would teach he would often say "5 Element is simple compared to other styles, to get better - develop your self"

 

So to me what is important is what is my relationship to anger. I am scared of it? Do I feel shame? Etc. I can only take a patient where I feel safe to go my self.

 

This is to me what our patients need from us, the strength to let them drop down into these places and really change.

 

And of course the ability to keep my anger out the treatment room !! ...

 

Gye

 

 

Gye Bennetts Five Element Acupuncture5 Element Information Site www.members.optusnet.com.au/~5element

 

 

 

 

The Angry HealerCan a healer given to unpredictable rage be able to listen patiently whenthe client prevaricates, or does not respond quick enough, or becomesirregular, or unconsciously does and says things which can aggravate andirritate, all the while being weak and vulnerable and needing a stable,patientand calm helping hand?There is so much anger these days, in so many walks of life, which soeasily turns to rage.There is road rage, airplane rage, domesticate rage, workplace rage,school rage, even checkout line rage, and parking lot rage.Are we at a time, where the next level, of healer rage, is on the horizon?Or, more horribly, it has already arrived?Or the lesser evil, healer anger? Or even, the situation where the healer isangry with another situation, or is apt to become angry, is veering onrage, and then ventures to heal?Ours is an ancient art, which requires from us a great deal more, ashealers, because of the nature of its construct, which works with Earthenergies, rather than medications.If one tends to anger, one is in imbalance. If to rage, one is ill. In bothcasesrecognition of what is happening, is paramount. Healing is in the knowing ofill health.As years proceed, more and more people are opting to traditional medicine.And in some sense, they are, in asking more from the healing, are alsoexpecting more from the healer.For them a disappointment in one healer may very well become adisappointment the whole system.In which case the thirsty one will be so, even in an oasis.Dr.. Holmes KeikobadMB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and healthprofessionals

 

[Guest guest]

[From the Wheel of Emotions, By Dr. Holmes Keikobad.

Copyright 2000 Tru Self Inc. Reproduced by Courtesy Tru Self Inc.]

 

Anger rises, but if Righteous, can recede.

This does not harm, and can protect and remain in honor.

 

Such an Anger has come to terms with Fear

Its dark corridors and dank Cold tunnels in a barren Earth.

 

It has felt the incising edge of Grief

And has faced in courage the cuts of crule Destiny.

 

Such an Anger will dissolve into the Heart

Whence will arise the joys of living

Red and crimson and mottled with Gold.

 

Such an Anger will never reach out and strangle

And cause all to cease in the Mires of Damp Obsessing.

 

Such an Anger will make what it touches

And never mar, never scar.

 

Such an Anger has a Surrogate, a hidden silent page

In the Book of the Wheel of Emotions ...

 

Known to the Weak as Rampant Rage.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Hi Gye,

 

I would also like to add 2 points to your response.

 

I was consistently misdiagnosed by Jr. & his son in law may they rest in

peace. I was subsequently also treated by 2 of his foremost students both

masters of acupuncture. For a number of years.

 

they all dignosed me as a wood C.F. and tonified my Liver for many years.

They turned me into an extremely sick man who would experience a lot of

anger which added to their beleif that they were doing the right thing by

me.

 

Jst as an aside I am an extremely healthy person this days

 

Last year I treated a patient who wanted her excema cured. This I did, one

of the side efects of my treatments was that her anger subsided and she was

a more pleasant woman to be with.

 

I agree with you that anger and rage are totally separate however, I am

also aware That most people confuse the two, especially patients and I

daresay a large number of acupuncturists.

 

Salvador

www.merdian-qi-acupuncture

 

 

 

>I would like to ad a couple of things to this discussion .

>

>Firstly there a big difference between Rage and Anger. Rage, like road

>rage etc is an expression of powerlessness while anger is usually the

>healthy expression to a boundary being crossed.

>

>When I start to treat a patient if they come back and tell me they are

>feeling a lot more anger I know their wood element is coming back to life

>and they are getting better.

>

>5 Element acupuncture aims to help a person grow and change. So in that

>case my job is help the patient have this renewed emotion without dumping

>it on others or feeling overwhelm etc.

>

>When J.R. Worsley would teach he would often say " 5 Element is simple

>compared to other styles, to get better - develop your self "

>

>So to me what is important is what is my relationship to anger. I am

>scared of it? Do I feel shame? Etc. I can only take a patient where I feel

>safe to go my self.

>

>This is to me what our patients need from us, the strength to let them drop

>down into these places and really change.

>

>And of course the ability to keep my anger out the treatment room !! ...

>

>Gye

>

>Gye Bennetts Five Element Acupuncture

>5 Element Information Site www.members.optusnet.com.au/~5element

>

>

>

>

>The Angry Healer

>

>Can a healer given to unpredictable rage be able to listen patiently when

>the client prevaricates, or does not respond quick enough, or becomes

>irregular, or unconsciously does and says things which can aggravate and

>irritate, all the while being weak and vulnerable and needing a stable,

>patient

>and calm helping hand?

>

>There is so much anger these days, in so many walks of life, which so

>easily turns to rage.

>

>There is road rage, airplane rage, domesticate rage, workplace rage,

>school rage, even checkout line rage, and parking lot rage.

>

>Are we at a time, where the next level, of healer rage, is on the horizon?

>Or, more horribly, it has already arrived?

>

>Or the lesser evil, healer anger? Or even, the situation where the healer

>is

>angry with another situation, or is apt to become angry, is veering on

>rage, and then ventures to heal?

>

>Ours is an ancient art, which requires from us a great deal more, as

>healers, because of the nature of its construct, which works with Earth

>energies, rather than medications.

>

>If one tends to anger, one is in imbalance. If to rage, one is ill. In both

>cases

>recognition of what is happening, is paramount. Healing is in the knowing

>of

>ill health.

>

>As years proceed, more and more people are opting to traditional medicine.

>And in some sense, they are, in asking more from the healing, are also

>expecting more from the healer.

>

>For them a disappointment in one healer may very well become a

>disappointment the whole system.

>

>In which case the thirsty one will be so, even in an oasis.

>

>Dr.. Holmes Keikobad

>MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

>www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

>professionals

>

>

>

 

_______________

Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you.

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[Guest guest]

What is Anger, is the low tide, of what it will become, Rage.

 

Both are born of Heat in the snarled roots of Wood.

 

Anger is Righteous when meted out in measure

And it becomes the protective, bounteous treasure.

 

Anger is Rising when it rises by itself

And becomes Rage when finally free of the Cage

Of reason and treason and gore and grind

Of what comes next, or what is carnage behind.

 

When Anger has lost all memory of itself

It turns the empty, stark page,

And becomes, irrevocably, Rampant Rage.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Gye Bennetts "

<5element@o...> wrote:

> Firstly there a big difference between Rage and Anger. Rage, like

road rage etc is an expression of powerlessness while anger is

usually the healthy expression to a boundary being crossed.

>

 

Hi Gye,

 

Please: View - Encoding - Chinese Traditional (Big5).

 

The Chinese term «ã nu, translated as " anger, fury, rage " , means the

¤ß 'feeling' of a ¥£ 'slave' (the ¤S 'hand' over a ¤k 'woman'), the

sentiment of somebody being under the power of someone else.

 

Don't forget that 2004 will be a wooden year (Green Monkey) - Jia-

Shen¥Ò¥Ó.

And because Shen ¥Ó is Metal, " the tree won't grow well under the

axe " .

 

Laurentiu

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

This raises a question that I have been puzzling over, as I try to

understand more about Five Element acupuncture. I send this

question out to the Group. Where can I get information on just what the

overlap, or distinction is, between Five Element and psycho-therapy?

 

To say that the purpose of 5E is to help a patient grow and change

suggests to me an emotional growth that could involve changes on the

level of psychic landscape -- the confronting of old griefs and wounds,

perhaps even the re-living of old traumas.

 

How do you provide the support needed for such profound emotional work?

What if the patient has flashbacks, or dissociates?

 

Or, in other words, how do you keep the patient's emotion contained so

that it *doesn't* overwhelm? What do you do if it overwhelms the patient,

or if it overwhelms the practitioner?

 

I haven't begun my reading of Worsley's books yet, but are there any

articles anyone would recommend? I would be grateful for anyone's

generosity in commenting, too!

 

With my thanks -

And Peace and Wellness to you all,

Marie

[Guest guest]

[Laurentiu:

Don't forget that 2004 will be a wooden year (Green Monkey) - Jia-

Shen¥Ò¥Ó.

And because Shen ¥Ó is Metal, " the tree won't grow well under the

axe " .]

 

Enigmatic!

 

Can you talk a little more about 2004 in these terms?

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Marie wrote:

I haven't begun my reading of Worsley's books yet, but are there any

articles anyone would recommend? I would be grateful for anyone's

generosity in commenting, too!

>

I am generous and can and will comment :-).

 

The approach in the two disciplines is different. Psycho-analysis sets up

the practitioner

over and above the patient, and is presumed not to have an ass of nickel

with a body of

gold [indian saying]. He or she runs tests and calibrators and hums and nods

and sits

cross legged, frowning, smiling, hands clasped, in approbation, or distant

disapproval.

The patient has to toe the line, and can at best come across as 'disjointed,

now mending'.

 

The TCM guy or gal or alien being does nothing of the sort. He or she pops

needles, gives herbs,

or something, to bring about a " harmony: No more, no less.

 

What the patient does with it is not the healer's business.

 

And the TCM healer is expected to be in some sort of sensible shape

harmony-wise.

One can't have tendencies of a serial killer and then heal [being funny,

just].

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

-----

[Guest guest]

Irascible.

 

The TCM translators come up with some darling names. I never knew

that I was ever irascible. I may have been pissed off, annoyed, ticked

off, upset, pushed to the left, sent windward, become irritable, short,

peremptory, precipitate, et al, but never irascible.

 

Irascible. Sounds like being stewed in a crucible.

 

For that matter we the users an coiners of Anglo-Saxon from all the far

corners

of the world, with not much of Saxon left, it died with Harold's enucleated

eye, also come up with nouns and pronouns and adverbs of the odd sort;

like the one, 'pissed off'.

 

Mind you, one has to be off when pissed, being in a state of 'on' won't do.

How does this equate to being angry?

 

Howard: Honey, where are my favorite jockey shorts, the ones Mom gave me

for Christmas 10 years ago, and which I love to wear constantly?

 

Annabelle: O honey I threw them away, they were nearly becoming like

cardboard

with the same hue, and I got you some new ones in New Age purple!

 

Howard: Honey, I am Irascible, grrrrr.

 

Annabel: What is that?

 

Howard: I am pissed off.

 

Annabelle: O.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

The problem with Jack Worsley is that he blended various approaches

under the umbrella of 5 elements:

For example, his " Law of cure " comes directly from Homeopathy, he also

used a lot of techniques of psychotherapy, without telling his student

that this was psychotherapy.

A gifted practitioner, he was trying to teach what in his view worked,

but sometimes left his student and colleagues from other schools of

thought more than slightly perplexed

An other question is an acupuncturist is not trained as a

psychotherapist (well, a few are) and should well remember their limits.

 

regards,

 

 

PJ

 

On Friday, December 19, 2003, at 08:46 am, Marie Henson wrote:

 

> Hi,

>

> This raises a question that I have been puzzling over, as I try to

> understand more about Five Element acupuncture.  I send this

> question out to the Group.  Where can I get information on just what

> the

> overlap, or distinction is, between Five Element and psycho-therapy?

>

> To say that the purpose of 5E is to help a patient grow and change

> suggests to me an emotional growth that could involve changes on the

> level of psychic landscape -- the confronting of old griefs and wounds,

> perhaps even the re-living of old traumas. 

>

> How do you provide the support needed for such profound emotional

> work? 

> What if the patient has flashbacks, or dissociates?

>

> Or, in other words, how do you keep the patient's emotion contained so

> that it *doesn't* overwhelm?  What do you do if it overwhelms the

> patient,

> or if it overwhelms the practitioner?

>

> I haven't begun my reading of Worsley's books yet, but are there any

> articles anyone would recommend?  I would be grateful for anyone's

> generosity in commenting, too!

>

> With my thanks -

> And Peace and Wellness to you all,

> Marie

>

>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or

> none, visit the groupsí homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/ click

> ëedit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from the

> email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

> will still recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well congratulation Dr K, you have learned something about the english

language today

May be Santa Claus will bring you the Oxford dictionary or the Roget's

Thesaurus for Christmas.

[and Ch'i Po asked " is there more to life than TCM? "

The emperor answered: ..dunno! ]

 

 

Regards,

 

 

PJ

 

 

On Friday, December 19, 2003, at 01:44 pm, dr. k wrote:

 

> Irascible.

>

> The TCM translators come up with some darling names. I never knew

> that I was ever irascible. I may have been pissed off, annoyed, ticked

> off, upset, pushed to the left, sent windward, become irritable, short,

> peremptory, precipitate, et al, but never irascible.

>

> Irascible. Sounds like being stewed in a crucible.

>

> For that matter we the users an coiners of Anglo-Saxon from all the far

> corners

> of the world, with not much of Saxon left, it died with Harold's

> enucleated

> eye, also come up with nouns and pronouns and adverbs of the odd sort;

> like the one, 'pissed off'.

>

> Mind you, one has to be off when pissed, being in a state of 'on'

> won't do.

> How does this equate to being angry?

>

> Howard: Honey, where are my favorite jockey shorts, the ones Mom gave

> me

> for Christmas 10 years ago, and which I love to wear constantly?

>

> Annabelle: O honey I threw them away, they were nearly becoming like

> cardboard

> with the same hue, and I got you some new ones in New Age purple!

>

> Howard: Honey, I am Irascible, grrrrr.

>

> Annabel: What is that?

>

> Howard: I am pissed off.

>

> Annabelle: O.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and

> health

> professionals

>

>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or

> none, visit the groups’ homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/ click

> ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from the

> email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

> will still recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One can't have tendencies of a serial killer and then heal [being funny,

just].

 

Wasn't Miloscewicz a psychiatrist before he seized control of Serbia? What

was he really doing before then?

 

Pat

 

 

 

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==============================================================================

[Guest guest]

Sexist, too. Irascible seems to be applied only to men. Hysterical is

what gets applied to women. Both when angry.

 

Pat

 

 

Irascible.

 

The TCM translators come up with some darling names. I never knew

that I was ever irascible. I may have been pissed off, annoyed, ticked

off, upset, pushed to the left, sent windward, become irritable, short,

peremptory, precipitate, et al, but never irascible.

 

Irascible. Sounds like being stewed in a crucible.

 

For that matter we the users an coiners of Anglo-Saxon from all the far

corners

of the world, with not much of Saxon left, it died with Harold's enucleated

eye, also come up with nouns and pronouns and adverbs of the odd sort;

like the one, 'pissed off'.

 

Mind you, one has to be off when pissed, being in a state of 'on' won't do.

How does this equate to being angry?

 

Howard: Honey, where are my favorite jockey shorts, the ones Mom gave me

for Christmas 10 years ago, and which I love to wear constantly?

 

Annabelle: O honey I threw them away, they were nearly becoming like

cardboard

with the same hue, and I got you some new ones in New Age purple!

 

Howard: Honey, I am Irascible, grrrrr.

 

Annabel: What is that?

 

Howard: I am pissed off.

 

Annabelle: O.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================

NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and may be legally

privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not read, use or

disseminate the information. Although this email and any attachments are

believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any

computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility

of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is

accepted by Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP for any loss or damage arising

in any way from its use.

 

==============================================================================

[Guest guest]

PJ: Well congratulation Dr K, you have learned something about the english

language today

May be Santa Claus will bring you the Oxford dictionary or the Roget's

Thesaurus for Christmas.

[and Ch'i Po asked " is there more to life than TCM? "

The emperor answered: ..dunno! ]

>

In my earlier life I was the barely barefoot boy always looking for

hand-me-down books

to get by, and I did my medicine on shared library texts, and drawing

diagrams on

sheets of laundry wrapping paper, which a sympathetic washer man gave me;

when

I graduated, I went to him to thank him for his support, and he wept tears

of gratitude,

as though I were his kin; my kin, who did not weep other than reptilian

lachrymation,

getting set to exploit the gold mine, which a new doctor is, in the hoary

East.

 

Much later in life there came a time when I could purchase books, even to a

moderate

degree. And I did, going from the profligate, to the prudent, avoiding

practical, because

one should not be that when looking for books.

 

Most of my days I did well with a marvelously crafted, abridged Webster,

which

Webster wrote standing on a bridge with his lover; a small, well intentioned

book

of several hundred pages with all kinds of meanings an uncertain world will

have you look for, at a moment's notice.

 

Then one fateful day, I found myself fronting a sea of books in a wide bin,

in a

Cosco sort of shop, in downtown Phoenix.

 

There I spied at a large, fat, very red, very gold, Webster, the grand-daddy

of the

smaller version. It asked 12 dollars to be parted with, and it would agree

to come

home with me and be part of my little family.

 

The critical coin was counted, and She came home, the Book called Webster.

 

I rarely use it, the little Blue is still the one referred to; but I often

look at her

as She stands on the shelf, ready to solve all riddles made by men and

mad mice.

 

I would, to Roget's but there is something wrong with the name, I mean

Thesaurus;

sounds like there may be a Theocratical Tyrannosaurus which may pop out

from the pages.

 

Oxford I cannot take to for the moment, there is a matter of George the III

and

Paul Revere. And I never liked the real Oxford, because the blue blooded

boffers

could buy legions of books and not read them and become Peer with the Garter

on the Sleeve.

 

But thanks for the Chi Po insight, I bet he did say that; I mean, 81

questions and all,

and all real guessers.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Pat:

Wasn't Miloscewicz a psychiatrist before he seized control of Serbia? What

was he really doing before then?

>

Getting seizures in Croatia.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Pat:

Sexist, too. Irascible seems to be applied only to men. Hysterical is

what gets applied to women. Both when angry.

>

Which leads to a fatal continuation:

 

Annabelle: Howy honey, have you seen Mommy dear? She is not

in the balcony seat and not in the kitchen nor in the

drawing room where she favors your favorite sofa, so sweet of the darling

to come and stay with us forever.

 

Howard: She was leaning over the balcony shooing the birds and

I tipped her over, dear, on a whim and a fancy, my precious, you will find

her

splattered all over the sidewalk and parked cars 12 stories below..

 

Annabelle: Howard.

 

Howard: What dear?

 

Annabelle: I am hysterical.

 

Howard: OK.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Well take it easy man! my point was that there are other things in life

that .

Where is your sense of humour (English: being funny)? may be you only

have a sense of Humor ( English: body fluids) Ha ha I think this is

funny!

Life is not always that serious.

You were the one ranting about people using " irascible " in the first

place.

 

Best regards and merry Christmas

 

PJ

 

On Friday, December 19, 2003, at 03:27 pm, dr. k wrote:

 

> PJ: Well congratulation Dr K, you have learned something about the

> english

> language today

> May be Santa Claus will bring you the Oxford dictionary or the Roget's

> Thesaurus for Christmas.

> [and Ch'i Po asked " is there more to life than TCM? "

> The emperor answered: ..dunno! ]

>>

> In my earlier life I was the barely barefoot boy always looking for

> hand-me-down books

> to get by, and I did my medicine on shared library texts, and drawing

> diagrams on

> sheets of laundry wrapping paper, which a sympathetic washer man gave

> me;

> when

> I graduated, I went to him to thank him for his support, and he wept

> tears

> of gratitude,

> as though I were his kin; my kin, who did not weep other than reptilian

> lachrymation,

> getting set to exploit the gold mine, which a new doctor is, in the

> hoary

> East.

>

> Much later in life there came a time when I could purchase books, even

> to a

> moderate

> degree. And I did, going from the profligate, to the prudent, avoiding

> practical, because

> one should not be that when looking for books.

>

> Most of my days I did well with a marvelously crafted, abridged

> Webster,

> which

> Webster wrote standing on a bridge with his lover; a small, well

> intentioned

> book

> of several hundred pages with all kinds of meanings an uncertain world

> will

> have you look for, at a moment's notice.

>

> Then one fateful day, I found myself fronting a sea of books in a wide

> bin,

> in a

> Cosco sort of shop, in downtown Phoenix.

>

> There I spied at a large, fat, very red, very gold, Webster, the

> grand-daddy

> of the

> smaller version. It asked 12 dollars to be parted with, and it would

> agree

> to come

> home with me and be part of my little family.

>

> The critical coin was counted, and She came home, the Book called

> Webster.

>

> I rarely use it, the little Blue is still the one referred to; but I

> often

> look at her

> as She stands on the shelf, ready to solve all riddles made by men and

> mad mice.

>

> I would, to Roget's but there is something wrong with the name, I mean

> Thesaurus;

> sounds like there may be a Theocratical Tyrannosaurus which may pop out

> from the pages.

>

> Oxford I cannot take to for the moment, there is a matter of George

> the III

> and

> Paul Revere. And I never liked the real Oxford, because the blue

> blooded

> boffers

> could buy legions of books and not read them and become Peer with the

> Garter

> on the Sleeve.

>

> But thanks for the Chi Po insight, I bet he did say that; I mean, 81

> questions and all,

> and all real guessers.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and

> health

> professionals

>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

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> none, visit the groups’ homepage:

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>

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> email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

> will still recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can a healer who is irritable, given to ire, bordering on depression,

bordering on anxiety, continue to heal, without personally addressing these

factors, or even recognizing their presence?

 

Healers are human, and as such flawed. But what if this is not recognized

and one goes ahead to heal others, what kind of healing would result?

 

What kind of a mindset does prevail with healers at large?

 

Is it somewhat like what orthodox healers are caricatured to have, a sort

of implied superior, I-know-more-than-you attitude?

 

Here is a question of the horrible sort:

 

In your opinion, what is the general percentage of healers out there, who

are having significant problems of Anger, Depression Anxiety and Stress?

 

[ ] less than 25 %?

[ ] more than 25 %?

 

Are we as healers, a subset of the population at large, in terms of how

angry,

irritated, enraged, depressed and anxiety-ridden we are?

 

On the other hand, does the public, should the patient, expect more from

us because we are Healers in the tradition of great healers of old, with

a lineage going back, unbroken, over two millennia?

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

All,

 

I read the thread about anger yesterday and wanted

to offer a few comments and questions. I've also replied

to a couple of Dr. K's remarks, below.

 

The question was raised about the presumed equivalency

of the meanings of Chinese words that describe emotions

and English counterparts. Before getting to anger, I think

it's worthwhile for anyone who wants to understand the

comparison and contrast between Chinese and English

descriptions of emotions to consider the two words that

are equated in the general term that is used to summarize

the various states of mind that we know as emotions in

English and qing2 in Chinese.

 

I'm one who believes that there is frequently something

to be gained from understanding the origins of things,

very much including words. And when we examine the

origins of these two words we can gain, if not answers,

at least some interesting questions.

 

Emotion comes from e and motion. The e is likely the

same component that we find in words like excise,

eviscerate, educate, etc. It means " out " or " away " .

 

Motion is motion. Movement.

 

The roots of the word emotion contain some clues therefore

as to what the idea behind naming certain mental affects

as emotions is all about. It describes moving away

or moving out. And among the array of mental artifacts

that we create and deal with more or less without

cease during our waking and much of our sleeping

lives, emotions do have the curious capacity to motivate

and lead us to move.

 

When we feel fear, we are moved to flight.

When we feel love we are moved to draw close.

When we feel anger we often want to move something away from us.

 

These are just off the cuff observations and certainly

a great deal of attention could be paid to the

subtleties of movement as motivated by emotion...

and vice versa.

 

Anyhow, if we have an emotional experience, we

underscore the underlying verbal implications by

saying that it was " moving. " We are " moved to tears "

" moved to say " " moved to " a lot of things. And it's

not altogether inaccurate to say that in English

emotions are all about movement. They are, as such,

critical components in the overall strategies that

we have developed and deployed during the

course of our evolution. Life depends for its

survival upon movement. And the ways in

which a species motivates itself tend to become

encoded in its ongoing transmission of genetic

instructions. We are what we eat...well, we are

what we don't excrete...and we are also how

we move.

 

In Chinese the word qing2 is made up of two

main parts, one on the left that means heart

and one on the right that means, well, a lot

of things. I'm not going to get into breaking down

the meaning of this character, which forms the

right hand part of qing2 and which is itself

pronounced qing1 (at least in modern Mandarin).

 

But it means green, blue, black, red, clear,

and is used in so many different ways that it's

dizzying to try and hold them all in the mind

at once, let alone try and make one consistent

meaning contain them all. For anyone familiar

with Roger Ames' introduction to the book,

Original Dao, the kind of treatment he gives

the Chinese word " lun " might be very productively

applied to this word " qing1 " . If anyone is interested

in this detail of understanding, get in touch with

me directly. I think it would over stress the list

to try and follow up on this thread here.

And there's a forum at the Paradigm site that

is set up to handle Chinese characters relatively

easily and is meant to discuss just these kinds

of issues.

 

 

In Chinese medicine, we read and talk about

qi1 qing2 or seven emotions.

 

I think one good thing for everyone to do

is to have in mind the Chinese word that

is translated as " anger " in this context.

 

I'll leave that for someone else to fill in.

 

But I just woke up this morning thinking about

this thread and wondered if we're even dealing

with equivalent phenomena when we talk about

" emotions " in English and " qing2 " in Chinese.

 

Maybe.

 

And maybe not.

 

At the very least, I think the question of their

presumed equivalence is worth exploring.

 

I found Dr. K's questions about the emotional

state of those engaged in healing professions

fascinating. My own experience is so limited

that I hesitate to try to formulate a general impression

of the general scene based on so few data.

 

But my own experience with doctors and healers

of all sorts is that they tend to behave more or

less just like the general population. I once

heard that doctors are the worst demographic

when it comes to flying their private airplanes

into the ground. No reason was given, but doctors

are often forced into situations in which they

must make life and death decisions. And this

might tend to make them believe that they

know what is the right thing to do, even

when they do not.

 

In an operating room, it's the patient's

life that is at stake. But in the cockpit of

an airplane, it's different.

 

It's certainly an interesting question to consider,

and I'm grateful to Dr. K for bringing it up.

 

 

> On the other hand, does the public, should the patient, expect more from

> us because we are Healers in the tradition of great healers of old, with

> a lineage going back, unbroken, over two millennia?

 

I'm curious to know more about what you

mean, Dr. K by a lineage going back unbroken

over two millennia.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

> Can a healer who is irritable, given to ire, bordering on

> depression, bordering on anxiety, continue to heal, without

> personally addressing these factors, or even recognizing

> their presence?

<big snip>

> us because we are Healers in the tradition of great healers

> of old, with

> a lineage going back, unbroken, over two millennia?

 

When I give a session, I do the same thing I do with my personal stuff

as I do when I sit on cushion.

I try to move towards being awake.

 

I keep my receiving sessions down to a minium because I've found not

everyone can do that and it very annoying.

 

Yes, it is possible to experience a session from the inside out.

There are some ABTs, acupuncturists and herbalists I will probably

never consider for treatment or instruction again.

 

They were way too self-absorbed to be anything but creepy!

 

Penel

[Guest guest]

Penel,

>

> When I give a session, I do the same thing I do with my personal stuff

> as I do when I sit on cushion.

> I try to move towards being awake.

>

> I keep my receiving sessions down to a minium because I've found not

> everyone can do that and it very annoying.

 

Is it possible for you to identify any particular

experience or aspect of your education and

training that allowed you to develop this

approach/ability?

 

Can you point out particular deficiencies

in those who have them that make them

so annoying?

>

> Yes, it is possible to experience a session from the inside out.

> There are some ABTs, acupuncturists and herbalists I will probably

> never consider for treatment or instruction again.

 

If you were to design a curriculum or course

of training that would have as one of its aims

providing adequate instruction and guidance

to students to help ensure that they don't end

up on such a list, what would you make sure

to include?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

can you say more on that. I don't understand all of what you said.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

-

" Penel Eynde LeGrand " <hyldemoer

<Chinese Medicine >

Sunday, December 21, 2003 9:17 AM

Re: The Angry Healer

 

 

> Can a healer who is irritable, given to ire, bordering on

> depression, bordering on anxiety, continue to heal, without

> personally addressing these factors, or even recognizing

> their presence?

<big snip>

[Guest guest]

[On the other hand, does the public, should the patient, expect more from

us because we are Healers in the tradition of great healers of old, with

a lineage going back, unbroken, over two millennia?]

 

I mean all the marvelous men from Emperor Huang Di who thought to

ask about the 81 Difficult Issues, to Chi Po who chose to answer these in

such

marvelous parlance; to upwards of 200 profound healers whose commnetaries

and annotated; to Dr. Hua To.u; to Yang Hsuan-ts'ao pf the 7th century; to

Li

Shih Zhen of 1518 or so; to Paul U Unschuld of our times; to Ted Kaputcheck

who became the advertant Weaver of our times; and the many more who are

brilliant healers, some known, many not so, quietly working out issues by

candlelight

even today, in far reaches of the Hinterland of Unknowing.

 

Unbroken lineage, whatever system one follows.

 

Wherever we diagnose and treat, Chi Po stands beside and either frowns.

 

Or smiles.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Dr. K,

 

Thanks for replying to my query. As I'm currently

engaged in designing curriculum for a clinical

training program, I'm curious to know what

sources different people use to assemble their

sense of Chinese medical history and traditions.

 

Can you help me to understand where you

get your images and ideas about the historical

dimension of the subject? I'm looking for

materials that can be referred to and used

for teaching about these things.

 

 

> I mean all the marvelous men from Emperor Huang Di who thought to

> ask about the 81 Difficult Issues, to Chi Po who chose to answer these in

> such

> marvelous parlance; to upwards of 200 profound healers whose

commnetaries

> and annotated;

 

I guess you're talking about the Su Wen here.

What version of it do you find most useful?

 

I g to Dr. Hua To.u; to Yang Hsuan-ts'ao pf the 7th century; to

> Li

> Shih Zhen of 1518 or so; to Paul U Unschuld of our times; to Ted

Kaputcheck

> who became the advertant Weaver of our times; and the many more who

are

> brilliant healers, some known, many not so, quietly working out issues by

> candlelight

> even today, in far reaches of the Hinterland of Unknowing.

>

> Unbroken lineage, whatever system one follows.

 

I'm aware of a number of lineages, some broken

some unbroken. Some seem to submerge themselves

for centuries and then reemerge in different forms.

 

Are you saying that there is a single, unbroken

lineage that has transmitted Chinese medicine

as an orthodox tradition, so to speak, for 2,000

years or more? Or are you referring more generally

to the commonality or lineage of all who engage

in healing arts?

 

 

>

> Wherever we diagnose and treat, Chi Po stands beside and either frowns.

>

> Or smiles.

 

Speaking of Paul Unschuld, he has an interesting

speculation about that name Chi Po (or Qi Bo in pinyin).

As it is one of the relatively rare Chinese names

that appears in Han era materials as a two character

name, Paul speculates that it may well be a Chinese

rendering of a foreign name. The character " qi "

in Qi Bo is the name of what was then China's

most western region. And Paul speculates further

that one of the meanings of Qi Bo may well imply

that the name was a Chinese-pronunciation

of Hippocrates, and may testify to an inter-communication

between the ancient Hellenistic world and pre-Han

and Han era China.

 

If Chinese medicine does indeed have roots

that extend to the Mediterranean, Qi Bo may

be having quite a laugh indeed.

 

Thanks for the thought provoking thread.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Ken:

Thanks for replying to my query. As I'm currently

engaged in designing curriculum for a clinical

training program, I'm curious to know what

sources different people use to assemble their

sense of Chinese medical history and traditions.

>

>

Dr. K

Can you gice some information on where will this curriculum you prepare

will finction? That will permit a better esponse.

 

Ken:

Can you help me to understand where you

get your images and ideas about the historical

dimension of the subject? I'm looking for

materials that can be referred to and used

for teaching about these things.

>

>

Dr. K

I look to the simplest structure of as the foundation,

on which I have developed an ever evolving structure, which permits growth,

but stays away from diversions of this school of thought or that.

 

I look to no school, and let no school look to me.

 

To me the Essence is the Law, and what I make of it, the Way.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals