Atkins

[Guest guest]

Atkins Diet May Help Prevent Epileptic Seizures in Difficult-to-Treat

Patients

Two patients on the Atkins diet are seizure-free in a small pilot study.

Medscape Medical News 2003

http://mp.medscape.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/eekD0EDHzl0D2i0Fmwu0Ay

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2004 11:54:20 AM Central Standard Time,

writes:

 

> Otherwise carbs serve no purpose in the body

> besides energy and fat gives a nicer smoother burn and keeps blood

> sugar levels more stable.

 

Just a note to say that IME, endurance training is all but impossible without

carbs, and a lot more of them than the Atkins maintenance regime recommends.

If you need to be active for hours at a time, whether hunting or doing a

triathlon, you really need the benefit that carbs provide in metabolism. IMO,

the

" smooth burn " is entirely adequate for a sedate lifestyle, however.

 

Guy Porter

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At activity levels consistent with serious amateur endurance training, energy

output for the athlete can be as high as 200 watts for a few hours, compared

to 30 watts for the sedate office worker. So, IMO, perhaps the sedate people

in our society are actually hibernating without knowing it. And if this was the

case, then having the energy system in ketosis is likely much more

beneficial, as it uses fat for fuel and would thereby prevent obesity.

 

Guy

 

> IMO,

> the

> > " smooth burn " is entirely adequate for a sedate lifestyle, however.

>

>

> I see your point about activity. As we know activity alters insulin levels

> in a

> favorable way as well. But perhaps the atkins is even better, rather than

> just

> adequate, for the sedentary. what do you think?

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What's interesting to me is how rapidly people jumped to the Atkins thing.

Many restaturants here now have " Atkins " entrees on their menus. And

people are not going with it because this is " healthy " eating, but because

they think they can lose weight with it. Eating healthy food to improve

one's health is way down the list of priorities, compared to losing weight,

it seems.

 

Pat

 

 

you guys are aware that research shows the maintenance atkins diet is

at least as healthy as a brown rice and veggies diet and works much

better for weight loss and long term maintenance. if you read the

atkins website, you will see that the hype about a life of bacon and

beef is decidedly NOT what they recommend at this point. They are

strong vocal detractors of sugar and white flour. Big on fiber and

low carb veggies (the anticancer foods). A diet of animals and

veggies with some starch is absolutely the diet human gather-forgagers

evolved with. Agricultural societies centered on the production of

grains, but this was more about social and political control than

nutrition. If society tells you only rice is good and then makes it

so one has to live by the rules of society to get rice or you starve,

then one is brainwashed. the mere fact that China is an agricultural

society and thus used grains as their main food source is no evidence

that the chinese diet is superior in any way to others. It is

evidence that in ancewint times, grains were necessary to promote

civilization. no more. no less. A small amount of carbs in necessary

to prevent ketosis. Otherwise carbs serve no purpose in the body

besides energy and fat gives a nicer smoother burn and keeps blood

sugar levels more stable. Since whole gains are essentially

unavailable in the restaurant world, a maintenance atkins diet is

probably the healthiest diet one can eat when one is on the road.

 

BTW, I have never had a weight problem, never tired atkins and usually

eat mostly veggie. So nothing personal here.

 

, " Pat Ethridge "

<pat.ethridge@c...> wrote:

> Right. That's the big fad of the moment.

>

> Pat

>

>

> Unless they are on the Atkins diet

>

>

> On Jan 12, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Pat Ethridge wrote:

>

> > More typically here in NYC, I see people eat a bagel or muffin for

> > breakfast, deli sandwich or salad bar for lunch, and then for supper,

> > take

> > out chinese or pizza, or, if they are into the club scene, tapas or

> > other

> > snacks. Donuts anytime. I read somewhere that at least 50% of the

> > people

> > who eat at salad bars regularly here have parasites. Not the best

> > diet, to

> > be sure.

> >

> > Pat

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

> board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

> free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

at least as healthy as a brown rice and veggies diet and works much

better for weight loss and long term maintenance. if you read the

atkins website, you will see that the hype about a life of bacon and

beef is decidedly NOT what they recommend at this point. They are

strong vocal detractors of sugar and white flour

>>>>Todd does evidence matters? not to many if it collides with their feelings

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " ALON MARCUS " <

alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> at least as healthy as a brown rice and veggies diet and works much

> better for weight loss and long term maintenance. if you read the

> atkins website, you will see that the hype about a life of bacon and

> beef is decidedly NOT what they recommend at this point. They are

> strong vocal detractors of sugar and white flour

> >>>>Todd does evidence matters? not to many if it collides with their

feelings

 

 

Alon

 

as we all know, the ONLY consistently reproducible studies on longevity and

health involve calorie restriction. NOTHING else has been shown to reliably

increase lifespan in any animal. the atkins diet is a low calorie diet, which

is

another thing I think many people do not know. And the reason it is easier to

maintain a low calorie atkins vs. a low cal macrobiotic is that the high carb

diet messes with insulin and appetite, even the whole grains. a little meat is

satisfying. A little bread is not. I personally have an ethical problem with

meat consumption that I have wrestled with for years, so atkins does not

work for me, but it takes me immense discipline to not overdo the carbs at

times. so if you don't mind eating meat, for many I think atkins may be their

only hope of good health.

 

[Guest guest]

, DrGRPorter@a... wrote:

 

> If you need to be active for hours at a time, whether hunting or doing a

> triathlon, you really need the benefit that carbs provide in metabolism. IMO,

the

> " smooth burn " is entirely adequate for a sedate lifestyle, however.

 

 

I see your point about activity. As we know activity alters insulin levels in a

favorable way as well. But perhaps the atkins is even better, rather than just

adequate, for the sedentary. what do you think?

 

[Guest guest]

On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Pat Ethridge wrote:

 

> Eating healthy food to improve

> one's health is way down the list of priorities, compared to losing

> weight,

> it seems.

 

This is a constant problem that I see daily. People want to achieve

cultural norms of " good-looking " as opposed to health.

 

I advertise that I don't make fat people thin, but I make fat people

healthy.

 

I have yet to find people knocking down my door for this service, its

just not " in " to be healthy. I guess I'm just holding out for a

resurgence of the 70's " natural " look. : )

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2004 3:41:30 PM Central Standard Time,

alonmarcus writes:

 

> >>>>>I know of several professional athletes on the diet and they are doing

> very well, with much more activity than going hunting

> Alon

 

Would be interested to know which sports these athletes engage in. Any

triathletes or marathoners? Also, my reference to hunting had to do with

chasing

down big game on foot with a spear, as opposed to the more modern idea of going

(rifle) hunting.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The Atkins diet drains dampness. I have at least 3 patients who have

developed leg cramps from the diet- which I¹ve managed with some variation

of shao yao gan cao tang

 

Cara

>

>

 

>

> On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Pat Ethridge wrote:

>

>> > Eating healthy food to improve

>> > one's health is way down the list of priorities, compared to losing

>> > weight,

>> > it seems.

>

> This is a constant problem that I see daily. People want to achieve

> cultural norms of " good-looking " as opposed to health.

>

> I advertise that I don't make fat people thin, but I make fat people

> healthy.

>

> I have yet to find people knocking down my door for this service, its

> just not " in " to be healthy. I guess I'm just holding out for a

> resurgence of the 70's " natural " look. : )

>

> --

>

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

> -Adlai Stevenson

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

> approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:14 AM, wrote:

 

>

> you guys are aware that research shows the maintenance atkins diet is

> at least as healthy as a brown rice and veggies diet and works much

> better for weight loss and long term maintenance.

 

It depends on which study you read. Atkins is still very controversial.

 

> if you read the

> atkins website, you will see that the hype about a life of bacon and

> beef is decidedly NOT what they recommend at this point. They are

> strong vocal detractors of sugar and white flour. Big on fiber and

> low carb veggies (the anticancer foods).

 

This may be one reason for differences in outcome in studies. What

exactly is the Atkins diet at this point? On one hand, Atkins himself

used to recommend a steak and whipped cream approach to eating. On the

other hand, you see 'moderation' in the latest approaches, where the

Atkins diet is starting to look more like the Mediterranean diet.

 

> A diet of animals and

> veggies with some starch is absolutely the diet human gather-forgagers

> evolved with. Agricultural societies centered on the production of

> grains, but this was more about social and political control than

> nutrition. If society tells you only rice is good and then makes it

> so one has to live by the rules of society to get rice or you starve,

> then one is brainwashed. the mere fact that China is an agricultural

> society and thus used grains as their main food source is no evidence

> that the chinese diet is superior in any way to others.

 

This is socioeconomic stuff, quite complex, and one could make other

cases as well. For example, the relative development and longevity of

southwestern pueblo dwellers and their culture who were an agricultural

society, in contrast to the plains indians who were hunters and

nomadic. I also read that naturopathic text that I think is

influencing your argument here, but I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think you can reduce the role of agriculture and grain

cultivation to simple cultural and political control.

 

If you want an interesting history of the economic and social

development of agriculture in China, read " Principles of Conflict " (a

translation of Sun Zi's Art of War) by General Zhang Zichang.

 

> It is

> evidence that in ancewint times, grains were necessary to promote

> civilization. no more. no less. A small amount of carbs in necessary

> to prevent ketosis. Otherwise carbs serve no purpose in the body

> besides energy and fat gives a nicer smoother burn and keeps blood

> sugar levels more stable. Since whole gains are essentially

> unavailable in the restaurant world, a maintenance atkins diet is

> probably the healthiest diet one can eat when one is on the road.

 

There are carbs and there are carbs. There is no doubt that one of the

strong points of Atkins is the elimination of refined carbohydrates and

sugars. But macrobiotics has said the same thing for decades.

 

Your argument, like many based on western nutritional ideas, avoids the

issues of qualities of foods. We don't say that all supplementing

medicinals are the same, or all heat clearing medicinals are the same.

Each grain, and its preparation is different qualitatively, according

to its nature, flavor, and temperature, the soil, climate, season

harvested, preparation, etc. There is a long gap from quinoa to angel

food cake. I think whole grains are much more important in the human

diet than you or the present backlash against carbohydrates are willing

to allow.

>

> BTW, I have never had a weight problem, never tired atkins and usually

> eat mostly veggie. So nothing personal here.

 

Same here. Same basic dietary approach in my case for the last 35

years.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Cara Frank wrote:

 

> The Atkins diet drains dampness. I have at least 3 patients who have

> developed leg cramps from the diet- which I’ve managed with some

> variation

> of shao yao gan cao tang

 

How does dampness draining cause leg cramps? Is this causing a Yin

deficiency?

 

This brings up a reasonable question too, has anybody had to treat any

side effects to the Atkins diet?

 

 

-al.

 

 

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure. I think that it injures the Liver Yin ( yes, yes, MSU'ing).

Cara

>

> On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Cara Frank wrote:

>

>> The Atkins diet drains dampness. I have at least 3 patients who have

>> developed leg cramps from the diet- which I¹ve managed with some

>> variation

>> of shao yao gan cao tang

>

> How does dampness draining cause leg cramps? Is this causing a Yin

> deficiency?

>

> This brings up a reasonable question too, has anybody had to treat any

> side effects to the Atkins diet?

>

>

> -al.

>

>

>

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

> -Adlai Stevenson

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

> approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a note to say that IME, endurance training is all but impossible without

carbs, and a lot more of them than the Atkins maintenance regime recommends.

If you need to be active for hours at a time, whether hunting or doing a

triathlon, you really need the benefit that carbs provide in metabolism. IMO,

the

" smooth burn " is entirely adequate for a sedate lifestyle, however.

>>>>>I know of several professional athletes on the diet and they are doing very

well, with much more activity than going hunting

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

I personally have an ethical problem with

meat consumption that I have wrestled with for years, so atkins does not

work for me, but it takes me immense discipline to not overdo the carbs at

times. so if you don't mind eating meat, for many I think atkins may be their

only hope of good health.

>>>>That is definitely a difficult issue. Also people do not realize that there

is crabs in the diet as well

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Al Stone <alstone@b...>

wrote:

>

> On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Cara Frank wrote:

>

> > The Atkins diet drains dampness. I have at least 3 patients who

have

> > developed leg cramps from the diet- which I've managed with some

> > variation

> > of shao yao gan cao tang

>

> How does dampness draining cause leg cramps? Is this causing a Yin

> deficiency?

>

> This brings up a reasonable question too, has anybody had to treat

any

> side effects to the Atkins diet?

 

I would think of draining dampness and excessive urination to be two

different things. If leg cramps are happening chances are that weight

is being lost too quickly during the first 14 days of the so called

induction period. minerals such as calcium, magnesium and potassium

are being excreted too rapidly. Patient should increase on their

veggies and slow the weight loss. Consideration should also include

female pts who are going through menopause.

 

As far as side effects goes, I've found constipation to be a common

side effect. So far I've had no luck with herbs. Fan xie ye, caused

too many cramps on a couple of ladies. Two pts have done better with

Rou Cong Rong. The most effective tx I've found so far for the

constipation has been acupuncture on ST 25, Ren 6-7 region, and ren

12. After the acup. I follow with ampuku and teach pt abdominal

massage with an emphasis on clockwise rotation.

 

~fernando

[Guest guest]

Al,

I had a patient who had Atkins side effects both times she went on the

diet. Both times she had acute pancreatitis. She went to the hospital

the first time and to me the second. I think she was going off of the

" old Atkins " diet though, high in animal fats, judging from her DH in

the MJ type symptoms. Normally I wouldn't treat this kind of condition

due to the risks involved, but I made the referral, she had no

insurance.... etc, etc... You know the story. Luckily she did great

with TCM.

 

Geoff

 

______________________

 

Message: 19

Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:16:59 -0800

Al Stone <alstone

Re: Atkins

 

 

On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Cara Frank wrote:

 

> The Atkins diet drains dampness. I have at least 3 patients who have

> developed leg cramps from the diet- which I've managed with some

> variation

> of shao yao gan cao tang

 

How does dampness draining cause leg cramps? Is this causing a Yin

deficiency?

 

This brings up a reasonable question too, has anybody had to treat any

side effects to the Atkins diet?

 

 

-al.

 

 

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

Alon:

 

The Watt is a measure of power, or the exertion of energy over time. Cyclists

often use the measure to calculate the efficiency of their work, by

determining whether or not their training can increase wattage (power output)

while

lowering heart rate.

 

Guy

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

200 watts

>>>>>Watts? what are you talking about? Watt is an electric power unit

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " ALON MARCUS "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> 200 watts

> >>>>>Watts? what are you talking about? Watt is an electric power unit

> Alon

 

 

It can apply to any type of power or to electrical power specifically.

 

According to M-W.com:

 

the absolute meter-kilogram-second unit of power equal to the work

done at the rate of one joule per second or to the power produced by a

current of one ampere across a potential difference of one volt :

1/746 horsepower

 

Brian C. Allen

[Guest guest]

the absolute meter-kilogram-second unit of power equal to the work

done at the rate of one joule per second

>>>>I think a joule applies only to light but I may be wrong. What is a human

watt? How do you calculate it?

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Any

triathletes or marathoners?

>>>>I have seen field and track both long runners and short runners

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Also, my reference to hunting had to do with chasing

down big game on foot with a spear, as opposed to the more modern idea of going

(rifle) hunting.

>>>Its a good question. What is the diet of hunters in Africa?

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

acute pancreatitis

>>>Does she have gallbladder trouble? Did she have a history of pancreatitis?

alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon:

The Watt is a measure of power. It is readily converted from other measures

of power, such as the decibel (Noise power), the HP or horsepower (typically,

combustion energy power). You can find conversion tables in most physics

textbooks.

 

When someone is in their aerobic zone and below their lactate threshold, 20%

of their energy expenditure comes from carbohydrates and 80% comes from fats.

It's like the fats are big wet logs on a fire and the carbs (or glycogen

stores) are smaller sticks. I can't imagine that someone who is seriously

training

for an endurance event can get along on 100g of carbohydrates per day (Atkins

maintenance level) and still work out for two or three hours at a time. I am

skeptical of an athlete reporting that they both comply with this

recommendation and train for endurance events.

 

Guy