Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 2006 this hoax has been around for years !! And there is no Kimberly Bush-car in the Homeland Security Dept. http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-ups-uniforms.htm Paula .......... in Michigan coming soon - Farm Fresh Soaps and Candles.com !!! (remainder of quoted post snipped by moderator) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 23, 2006 http://www.snopes.com/rumors/upsuniforms.asp On Nov 22, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Vicki P wrote: > Thought this might interest some of you.... > Vicki > > UPS > Uniforms > > Government Warning regarding purchase of > UPS uniforms: (excessive quoting snipped by moderator) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 10, 2007 Syndrome differentiation, history, tongue, pulse, the usual? Kind regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC Editor Times +44 (0) 1189 612512 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication. Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham, Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK. Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of AMIT P 09 June 2007 10:21 Chinese Medicine (unknown) I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO SWELLING, ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER??? WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING???????? Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 10, 2007 Amit P, First of all, please don't type all capitals because it's anoying. Thanks. Now, for the knee pain here's what you can do if it is acute: Have the patient sit on the table instead of laying down and have him/her flex the knee after every single needle you insert, use small needles, size 25 or 30, and needle the following: LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SI-8, SJ10, SJ11, and opposite of SI-8 (picture the arm as the leg as if you were needling XIYAN) (but don't needle XIYAN) stay as far away from the knee as possible. By the time you finish needling the arm, the knee pain should be gone. When you finish this, you may have the patient lay down for comfort, and needle retention. Now, to drain the bursa on the knees, do this: Measure 3 cun from HT3 towards HT4 and put a needle there, and measure 3 cun from SI5 towards SI7 and put a needle there. You already needled LI11 (drains damp) That should do it. Keep needles for 15 to 30 minutes or for as long as you can spare a room. Check on your patient frequently and stimulate all the needles a little. Treat several times like every other day. Glow AMIT P <amitp1300 wrote: I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO SWELLING, ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER??? WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING???????? Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 11, 2007 Great reminder of going in the opposite elbow. Also I like the suggestions for draining the swelling. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- The Traveler <dumai20baihui > Amit P, > > First of all, please don't type all capitals because it's anoying. Thanks. > > Now, for the knee pain here's what you can do if it is acute: > Have the patient sit on the table instead of laying down > and have him/her flex the knee after every single needle > you insert, use small needles, size 25 or 30, and needle the following: > > LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SI-8, SJ10, SJ11, and opposite of SI-8 > (picture the arm as the leg as if you were needling XIYAN) > (but don't needle XIYAN) stay as far away from the knee as possible. > By the time you finish needling the arm, the knee pain should be gone. > > When you finish this, you may have the patient lay down for comfort, and > needle retention. > > Now, to drain the bursa on the knees, do this: > Measure 3 cun from HT3 towards HT4 and put a needle there, and > measure 3 cun from SI5 towards SI7 and put a needle there. > You already needled LI11 (drains damp) > > That should do it. Keep needles for 15 to 30 minutes or for as long > as you can spare a room. Check on your patient frequently and > stimulate all the needles a little. Treat several times like every other day. > Glow > > AMIT P <amitp1300 wrote: > I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO > SWELLING, ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER??? > WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING???????? > > > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with > FareChase. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 11, 2007 a swollen knee may have absolutely nothing to do with a bursa. inflammation can be a traumatic arthritis from an orthopedic injury to any structure of the joint or it can be a serious medical problem, infection, vd, lupus, who knows. people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 11, 2007 Notice three things son: 1) The recommendation is for an acute presentation. 2) We're not touching the knee. 3) Herbs are not part of the recommendation. Gloria Philip Cusick <pkcusick wrote: a swollen knee may have absolutely nothing to do with a bursa. inflammation can be a traumatic arthritis from an orthopedic injury to any structure of the joint or it can be a serious medical problem, infection, vd, lupus, who knows. people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Mail Beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is? and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean? In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case. I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you Chinese medicine point of view: What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee and that it was moreover swelling. The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular case it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused by dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints. Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp. Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check the pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on each arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic conditions; neither did I recommended any points on the knee. The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell sign that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located. Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by the most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully capable of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members of the group. Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for? dating? philcusick <pkcusick wrote: a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Well the Traveler Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life. The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know a little more than you Bi theory. - The Traveler Chinese Medicine Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM Re: Re: (unknown) Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is? and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean? In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case. I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you Chinese medicine point of view: What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee and that it was moreover swelling. The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular case it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused by dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints. Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp. Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check the pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on each arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic conditions; neither did I recommended any points on the knee. The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell sign that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located. Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by the most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully capable of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members of the group. Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for? dating? philcusick <pkcusick wrote: a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Although I don't know what a vd is I agree with Phil: it is better to be safe than sorry. Most of my patients have been to a general practitioner before they come to me; but if they would present with an acute swollen knee and they have bot been investigated by a GP I would ask them to go see their doctor first. Tom. ---- philcusick 12/06/2007 1:28:59 Chinese Medicine Re: (unknown) a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Tom VD is venereal disease - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, June 11, 2007 10:51 PM Re: Re: (unknown) Although I don't know what a vd is I agree with Phil: it is better to be safe than sorry. Most of my patients have been to a general practitioner before they come to me; but if they would present with an acute swollen knee and they have bot been investigated by a GP I would ask them to go see their doctor first. Tom. ---- philcusick 12/06/2007 1:28:59 Chinese Medicine Re: (unknown) a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Before I go on answering this later on (because I don't have time right now) I musk ask you if you know where LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SJ10, SJ11, and for ashi xue, SI5 are located? Glow Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote: Well the Traveler Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life. The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know a little more than you Bi theory. - The Traveler Chinese Medicine Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM Re: Re: (unknown) Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is? and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean? In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case. I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you Chinese medicine point of view: What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee and that it was moreover swelling. The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular case it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused by dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints. Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp. Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check the pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on each arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic conditions; neither did I recommended any points on the knee. The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell sign that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located. Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by the most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully capable of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members of the group. Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for? dating? philcusick <pkcusick wrote: a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Glow, Alon is a skilled practitioner who knows where all those points are. He just likes saying provocative things like " [...]your bi theory " . Hugo The Traveler <dumai20baihui Chinese Medicine Tuesday, 12 June, 2007 9:52:09 AM Re: Re: (unknown) Before I go on answering this later on (because I don't have time right now) I musk ask you if you know where LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SJ10, SJ11, and for ashi xue, SI5 are located? Glow Alon Marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net> wrote: Well the Traveler Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life. The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know a little more than you Bi theory. www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com - The Traveler Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM Re: Re: (unknown) Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is? and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean? In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case. I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you Chinese medicine point of view: What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee and that it was moreover swelling. The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular case it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused by dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints. Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp. Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check the pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on each arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic conditions; neither did I recommended any points on the knee. The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell sign that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located. Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by the most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully capable of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members of the group. Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be careful presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for? dating? philcusick <pkcusick (AT) mac (DOT) com> wrote: a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory presentation. and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis. so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red flags. so with no info on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for more info or raise the possibility of something serious. and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis' ------------ --------- --------- --- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 > Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be careful > presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for? dating? > dear Traveler- I can only ask for your forgiveness. I am not sure how I provoked such anger. I criticized no one. I simply cautioned. There is no need for name calling or to question my credentials when what I said was reasonable. Your point suggestion may be just fine but that is not the point. The initial post was obviously a cry for help from someone who had no idea what they were dealing with. There was no case presentation at all. My teacher taught me to first be a doctor. So, again, I was calling attention to possible red flags. and yes, you chose to use the non-TCM diagnosis 'bursitis'. I will reiterate that this is a specific diagnosis. Bursitis does not apply to any knee swelling. if someone came to me with chest pain radiating to the arm I would not call it 'xiong bi' needle P6 and send them home with xue fu zhu yu tang. that's all. as to dating, I'm married but an alternative medicine dating forum might be a nice project for someone to start up. let's keep it professional, fun and informative, respectfully, Phil Philip Cusick, L.Ac. Acupuncture Herbal Medicine Manual Therapy 2588 Mission St. @ 22nd Suite #204 SF, CA 94110 www.philcusick.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2007 Phil Cusick: " [...]as to dating, I'm married but an alternative medicine dating forum might be a nice project for someone to start up. " Well, ok Phil, I can agree to that...but I still won't budge on 5E'ers dating TCM'ers. Hugo _________ Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers./ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2007 Hello DT, The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-reducing (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice, dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g. 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed on this forum (group). I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can e-mail me offline on cmthite The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input will prove valuable. Dr. Thite www.ayurvedicrx.com On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote: > > Dear Vaidya, > > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA. > > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the > newborn ICU. > > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine. > > Now we have other issues to look at. > > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4 > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to > try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ? > > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea. > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ? > > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline. > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there. > > Thanks, > DT > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2007 Dear ONes; Forgive no response here, we are on 12 hour teaching days here intensive until next weekend. Perhaps others can share more on your discussion. Warm Regards; Ysha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2007 DT: It is normal for a baby born 3 weeks early to a little weak and too sleepy to nurse. One of the most important things to do is get a breast pump for the mother so her breasts will be emptied as often as a full term baby would. She should pump after every feeding. The baby should be kept warm between feedings (babies lose calories trying to maintain 98.6) but stripped down to his diaper during feedings as skin-on-skin with mother is very stimulating, her shirt should be off too so baby can feel her skin. When he is tired of nursing, pump mothers' breast and give the milk to the baby, he should get a couple of ounces every 3 hours. He will mature and become stronger but the mothers milk supply needs to be protected by pumping her out at least every 3 hours and giving that to the baby in addition to what he is getting from the breast. As he matures, he will be stronger and will nurse better and better but he needs to be offered the breast regularly so he doesn't forget the nursing technique and only like the bottle. Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD Postpartum Care Services Rogue Valley Area, Oregon http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/ http://vmyork.ikarma.com/id269 - cm thite ayurveda Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:49 PM Re: PerinatalAyurveda forum (unknown) Hello DT, The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-reducing (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice, dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g. 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed on this forum (group). I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can e-mail me offline on cmthite The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input will prove valuable. Dr. Thite www.ayurvedicrx.com On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote: > > Dear Vaidya, > > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA. > > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the > newborn ICU. > > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine. > > Now we have other issues to look at. > > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4 > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to > try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ? > > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea. > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ? > > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline. > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there. > > Thanks, > DT > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2007 Hello, DT: I have not been on this group for some time because of computer and server issues, as well as very busy with other non-internet things. I am not an ayurvedic, but a very interested supporter. I am a pre and perinatal birth focused CranioSacral therapist. I assist parents to process the birth experience with the baby who also needs to process and receive accurate reflection from the mother. Babies are fully capable of understanding parents -- through touch, voice inflection, and their many highly activated senses. Sometimes babies are not sleeping, but are " checked out " or between worlds. Sometimes they are making decisions and just trying to get into this body. Sometimes being induced means they weren't quite ready or " with the program " when birth was induced and happened. And, actually, it is just now the time for baby to be born .... if 40 weeks is the magic number. Perhaps, he might have been one to go a few more weeks. Vicki's suggestions are very compatible to the thinking that making life very womb like for him would be helpful. And, I suggest that you talk to baby as you would a child or adult ... and tell baby how much you want, and love, and welcome him. Tell him you are wishing for him to breast feed for whatever and all reasons ... and that you need to know how to help him to do so. If you slow down, breathe, intend to settle your own nervous system (so you are not responding in the way of being nervous and scared, etc), I believe you can pick up on the baby's communication. When you get into that " baby zone " with baby you can and will, especially mother will, get the " ah-ha " feelings and thoughts. Tell him even though he appears to be sleeping or tired, you know he is aware of what is going on around him and it's ok to take his time, but that you need him to eat. And why you want him to have breast milk... nutrition and bonding ... in your words, from your heart to his. Apologize from your heart that you had to induce him. Even if for true medical reasons, it impacts the baby. A heart felt apology (understanding) from mother and father and acknowledging their own feelings about it (fear, remorse, anger, etc) and telling baby that he/she does not have to carry or hold the parents emotional burdens erases or prevents the life long disconnect. These emotional issues resolved can enhance breast feeding very quickly ... ALL of this is about healing breaks in mother-baby attachment. Tell him what you want for him now that he is here. WELCOME him. Tell him how you are ready to care for him and be his parents in this world ... to hold, see, love, support, and protect him. And where you aren't ready acknowledge within at least, and come clean with the baby. Babies are sensory sponges and soak up all the emotions around them. They feel what adults are feeling and need adults to tell them, " OH, this is MY feeling. Not for you to take on. " Every newborn baby does their best when they hear and feel these encouragements from their parents -- when their parents realize how capable they are of working with them to resolve the issues. We know this of children and adults even in our adult relationship. Babies, even more so, need this. I hope this makes sense .... coming out of the blue ..... Glad I checked in today .... now back to my work. I am editing my documentary intro on my documentary on babies' experience of birth comparing the experience of hospital born with home born. One of the BIG things I have been learning from Ysha is to be FOCUSED ... and that's what I have been trying to do. harmony to all ..... janel www.safebabyresolution.blogspot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Hello Dr.Thite and others who are trying to help me out, I did go through each and every response and will try to make changes accordingly. Since its rather difficult to reply to every response I'm going to give an update on the current situation. Things have changed since my last post. Today is the 11th day after the baby was born and we did the Punyaha and Namakaran Shastra ( Hindu tradition)today. Today the baby is officially named Shreya after I called her Shreya three times in her right ear. We have almost reduced the formula amount to zero. Mother has started using a breast pump and its working well and is producing about 50ml combined from both sides like every 2-3 hours. Shreya feels more comfortable drinking breast milk from the bottle. She is improving albeit slowly when it comes to latching. So far the best she did was to suck for 10 minutes. Somehow even tickling the feet, taking the clothes off still does not help in keeing Shreya awake. One of my colleagues who had been through our problems has referred us to a lactation consulant. So we are looking forward to meet her. Baby's weight at birth : 6lb 3oz After 1 week : 6.17 lb Before delivery the blood sugars were in 170-180 range Blood sugar has returned to normal : Its like 130 after 1 hr reading I do not remember the names of Antibiotics. But it was given intravenously. Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ? Thanks and regards, DT ayurveda , " cm thite " <cmthite wrote: > > Hello DT, > > > > The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata- reducing > (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice, > dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be > started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use > of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g. > 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For > the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed > on this forum (group). > > > > I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make > baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How > much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics > were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention > about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can > e-mail me offline on cmthite > > > > The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical > experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input > will prove valuable. > > > > Dr. Thite > > www.ayurvedicrx.com > > > On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote: > > > > Dear Vaidya, > > > > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA. > > > > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about > > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were > > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to > > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such > > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial > > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction > > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long > > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could > > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during > > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given > > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and > > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the > > newborn ICU. > > > > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and > > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine. > > > > Now we have other issues to look at. > > > > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4 > > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts > > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of > > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my > > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to > > try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also > > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow > > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins > > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little > > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any > > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and > > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ? > > > > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the > > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is > > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted > > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My > > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the > > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea. > > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just > > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the > > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya > > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in > > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ? > > > > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline. > > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there. > > > > Thanks, > > DT > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Dear DT: You and your wife are doing wonderfully and you give a great report. When Shreya matures a little over the next 2 weeks she will nurse more strongly, don't worry. Just be sure and give her the opportunity to nurse each feeding time before offering the bottle. She will come to love the breast more and more and she will wake up more. If she gets more bottle feedings than breast feedings, she will like the bottle more. Keep up the skin-on-skin and pumping after she nurses and giving her that either by syringe, spoon, SNS, or bottle. She needs to drink a little under 60ml every 3 hours. The lactation consultant will be a big help with it all. There is more to be said depending on the LC's observation of her sucking technique, wt, etc. ice to feet (not a friendly thing to do) and tickling will only aggravate her momentarily and she will go back to sleep. Best to strip her clothes and moms shirt and bra with each feeding, wake her up completely with a diaper change before feeding. 10 straight minutes of sucking time is actually good. When she stops sucking, burp her and put her back on the same breast to get the fatty hindmilk. The next time she falls asleep burp her and put her on the other breast. Thanks for reporting back to us. Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD Postpartum Care Services Rogue Valley Area, Oregon http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/ http://vmyork.ikarma.com/id269 - desert_thought ayurveda Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:38 PM Re: PerinatalAyurveda forum (unknown) Hello Dr.Thite and others who are trying to help me out, I did go through each and every response and will try to make changes accordingly. Since its rather difficult to reply to every response I'm going to give an update on the current situation. Things have changed since my last post. Today is the 11th day after the baby was born and we did the Punyaha and Namakaran Shastra ( Hindu tradition)today. Today the baby is officially named Shreya after I called her Shreya three times in her right ear. We have almost reduced the formula amount to zero. Mother has started using a breast pump and its working well and is producing about 50ml combined from both sides like every 2-3 hours. Shreya feels more comfortable drinking breast milk from the bottle. She is improving albeit slowly when it comes to latching. So far the best she did was to suck for 10 minutes. Somehow even tickling the feet, taking the clothes off still does not help in keeing Shreya awake. One of my colleagues who had been through our problems has referred us to a lactation consulant. So we are looking forward to meet her. Baby's weight at birth : 6lb 3oz After 1 week : 6.17 lb Before delivery the blood sugars were in 170-180 range Blood sugar has returned to normal : Its like 130 after 1 hr reading I do not remember the names of Antibiotics. But it was given intravenously. Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ? Thanks and regards, DT ayurveda , " cm thite " <cmthite wrote: > > Hello DT, > > > > The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata- reducing > (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice, > dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be > started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use > of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g. > 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For > the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed > on this forum (group). > > > > I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make > baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How > much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics > were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention > about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can > e-mail me offline on cmthite > > > > The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical > experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input > will prove valuable. > > > > Dr. Thite > > www.ayurvedicrx.com > > > On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote: > > > > Dear Vaidya, > > > > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA. > > > > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about > > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were > > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to > > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such > > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial > > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction > > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long > > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could > > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during > > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given > > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and > > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the > > newborn ICU. > > > > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and > > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine. > > > > Now we have other issues to look at. > > > > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4 > > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts > > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of > > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my > > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to > > try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also > > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow > > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins > > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little > > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any > > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and > > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ? > > > > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the > > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is > > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted > > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My > > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the > > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea. > > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just > > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the > > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya > > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in > > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ? > > > > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline. > > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there. > > > > Thanks, > > DT > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 18, 2007 I just learned this from a lactation consultant: a premie's stomach is the size of a small marble. A full-term baby's stomach is the size of a large marble. All this talk of ounces and measurements! Let the baby eat until it is satisfied. After all, that is what our ancestors relied upon and look how the world's population has flourished! Warmly, Adrienne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2007 .. > > Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby > soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ? Dr Bronner's Aloe/Baby Mild Soap is an excellent soap for baby. It may also be diluted if you purchase the liquid (50/50). Rebecca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 29, 2007 Dear DT; When you can, it will be wise to give some extra support for Shreya's friendly intestinal flora which the antibiotics tend to kill off. I do not know what the lactation consultants recommend now, nor what is available to you now, but there are products designed especially for babies available in the US/natural foods stores. A little of the powder on a finger or dissolved in warm water is usual administration. Blessings; Ysha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
