How many have achieved moksha?

[Guest guest]

Good morning,

 

First, I thank you for this group and everyone's kind attention.

The title of my post is the question I have. How many people have

achieved Moksha that were Hindu? A precise number is out of the

question, of course, but at least an idea. A few dozen, hundreds,

thousands, tens of thousands? That type of estimate.

 

This question is not meant to be offensive or rhetorical. It is

very sincere and from a place of deep concern for others and for myself.

 

Thank you

James Jones

[Guest guest]

Hi, It is a very difficult question to answer, those who achieve high levels of consciousness and moksha will be very humble and will not talk about it, and there are spiritually confused people who misundersand what moksha is and there are the egoists who will use the spiritual concepts to satisfy their ego or cheat others. in my opinion moksha is not like a qualification of certification which we get by achieving some level god awareness, the soul is in a constant process of achieving higher levels of perfection and consiousness, till the soul reaches the highest level of consciousness that is god, it keeps moving from place to place ( reincarnate in different planes). God Bless, Divakar.Walker <Viator1 wrote: Good morning,First, I thank you for this group and everyone's kind attention. The title of my post is the question I have. How many people have achieved Moksha that were Hindu? A precise number is out of the question, of course, but at least an idea. A few dozen, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? That type of estimate.This question is not meant to be offensive or rhetorical. It is very sincere and from a place of deep concern for others and for myself.Thank youJames Jones

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[Guest guest]

Honestly speaking Mr. Jones, it is only God that can truly answer your question as God is the only one to grant this grace. Many may claim to be liberated but at the end of the day it is only God who determines this. Also due to the antiquity of Hindu religion it is not possible to accurately answer your question.Walker <Viator1 wrote: Good morning, First, I thank you for this group and everyone's kind attention. The title of my post is the question I have. How many people have achieved Moksha that were Hindu? A precise number is

out of the question, of course, but at least an idea. A few dozen, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? That type of estimate. This question is not meant to be offensive or rhetorical. It is very sincere and from a place of deep concern for others and for myself. Thank you James Jones

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[Guest guest]

Gentleman,How a person achieved moksha can we answer in this nos if a person achived mokasha why should he come to kaliyug period that too stay in this universe systemeven if moksha , what we have to do with that now ,who are at present living with their karma pl put question proprly.what r you trying to say. atjagsWalker <Viator1 Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2008 8:04:53

PM How many have achieved moksha?

 

Good morning,

 

First, I thank you for this group and everyone's kind attention.

The title of my post is the question I have. How many people have

achieved Moksha that were Hindu? A precise number is out of the

question, of course, but at least an idea. A few dozen, hundreds,

thousands, tens of thousands? That type of estimate.

 

This question is not meant to be offensive or rhetorical. It is

very sincere and from a place of deep concern for others and for myself.

 

Thank you

James Jones

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for your responses. My question is born out of

curiosity, innocence and some concern. I will restate and elaborate

my question.

 

, Arakampakkam

Thiaagrajan jagadeesan <atjags wrote:

 

> pl put question proprly.

> what r you trying to say.

>

 

I was doing some reading recently and it was pointed out that of the

billions of people who are following or have followed any of the

religions that have some sort of enlightenment as the goal(Hinduism,

Buddhism, Taoism, and so forth) very, very, very few have actually

gotten that goal.

 

My questions are as follows.

 

Is that really true? Why do so few people get enlightenment by any

definition even though there are billions whose religions center

around it? Is it so hard that only .02% of people actually obtained

it that try? Who has tried to fix this, to help more people get to

the end of the road?

 

I have been going to each of the traditions that I have access to so

that I can find the answers. Please understand that though the

answer may be easy and obvious to you, this is something that is very

serious to me. Countless millions of people suffering, striving and

failing. It breaks my heart and drives me to find out why, even

though it may be arrogant and foolish of me. I still have to try.

 

 

 

Thank you for your time,

James Jones

[Guest guest]

Hello James,very nice and interesting question.Since you have raised a question, would you be kind enough to let us - readers -know what is your understanding of the term " Moksha " please?Probably, once you explain your understanding, a meaningful reply from other members will be useful. thanks and regdsprasadarao madhunapantula <prasadaraom wrote: Hi James, Assuming your question & curiosity as innocent, I will answer that "in HINDU concept, all born in universe attain Moksha as

per Karma theory (on experiencing their karma - good or bad)". It is connected with a time frame. Will it satisfy you? It is a question of conviction on Dharma -related to spiritual assendance. Not viewd in concept of worldly statistical jugglery. MBPrasadarao. --- Walker <Viator1 > wrote: > Good morning, > > First, I thank you for this group and everyone's > kind attention. > The title of my post is the question I have. How > many people have > achieved Moksha that were Hindu? A precise number > is out of the > question, of course, but at least an idea. A few > dozen, hundreds, > thousands, tens of thousands? That type of > estimate. > > This question is not meant to be offensive or > rhetorical. It is > very sincere and from a place of deep

concern for > others and for myself. > > Thank you > James Jones > > ________ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs

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[Guest guest]

Here is my thought on this, I am not an expert, just a humbe soul sharing my thoughts and learning. you are seeking the truth my friend, when your heart bleads when you see suffering and pain, that is the sing of spirituality according to great saint Vivekananda, that leeds to god and spirituality and to find the truth of creation, life, death and suffering. you are absolutely right, we all have to try and do something to change this world to reduce the suffering, we (humans) are moving into a very negative direction. however small our contribution can be we have to try and I believe moksha or gods grace will be achieved only through service, love and compassion. bhakti and other paths lead to the same path of service in the end, that is why great saints like Sai Baba, Jesus Christ etc all followed the path of service and taught love and compassion. It is

very difficult to impart spiritual knowledge to people, to teach good to people, unless a person decided to understand god and obtain moksha he will not acheive anything spiritually, we as spiritual people can help others by trying our best, by living a life that is ideal and influence others to understand god, if we can do that that will be great, I think that will put us on the path of Moksha, as Arjun Pandit ji has said there should not be a desire to get moksha, service without self is the path to Moksha. that is the path of a Yogi and a yogi will definitely get moksha oneday. if you read about great saints/yogis like Jesus Christ, Shiridi SaiBaba, Paramahansa Yogananda, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda, Swami Chidananda, Yogi Rama, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa, etc you will see they all have one thing in common, that is Selfless Service, love, Compassion and Sacrifice. Read the book "Autobiography

of a Yogi" by Swami Paramahansa Yogananda, you will underastand a lot of things. there is a lot of information about yogis on the internet, please check that out, you will find answers. God Bless you, Divakar. Walker <Viator1 wrote: Thank you everyone for your responses. My question is born out of curiosity, innocence and some concern. I will restate and elaborate my question. , Arakampakkam Thiaagrajan jagadeesan <atjags wrote:> pl put question proprly.> what r you trying to say. > I was doing some reading recently and it was pointed out that of the billions of people who are following or have followed any of the religions that have some sort of enlightenment as the goal(Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and so forth) very, very, very few have actually gotten that goal. My questions are as follows.Is that really true? Why do so few people get enlightenment by any definition even though there are billions whose religions center around it? Is it so hard that only .02% of people actually obtained it that try? Who has tried to fix this, to help more people get to the end of the road?I have been going to each of the traditions that I have access to

so that I can find the answers. Please understand that though the answer may be easy and obvious to you, this is something that is very serious to me. Countless millions of people suffering, striving and failing. It breaks my heart and drives me to find out why, even though it may be arrogant and foolish of me. I still have to try.Thank you for your time,James Jones

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[Guest guest]

dear pandit arjun you seem to be very wise as usual. so when one become desireless he attains moksha while still in the body correct? because when most of us think moksha we think of death and then returning to the abode of the almighty. but few understand the concept while alive. i think one can achieve this moksha state while still in the body. do you think that is possible? also is the only characterisitc desirelessness, are there any other facets to the person who is alive who has achieved moksha???

 

namaskar,

 

 

__________

Raja Gursahani (: 559.474.8576 ,: rajagursahani

 

[Guest guest]

shailendra that was beautifully said. a person who has reached that state will attract others for sure. you will see by how that person behaves. he will just flow with life and love and enjoyment and he will be surely liberated from the bondages that keep us in paranoia and distrust. he/she will surely have light in him/her. that light will radiate in front of others. its not light in the aura per say but that should be the case it will be the light of his spirit that will illuminate others and make them feel good about themselves just by how he carries himself. it is a nurturing quality too for those who are liberated. well that is my opinion. yes it is nurturing why? because if like you said he feels one with existence then he knows everything around him is part of him as well and he feels that deeply. he feels the spirit of connectedness and that can only be a nurturing quality. this is a wonderful discussion and i am learning so much. please expand on this.

 

namaskar,

 

 

__________

Raja Gursahani (: 559.474.8576 ,: rajagursahani

 

[Guest guest]

Dear James,

 

Given the antiquity of hindu religion and the all the hindu religious

texts I have read. I believe the no of people achieving moksha must

be muhc more beyond 10 thousands.

 

Also please keep in mind that such enlightened sould mostly prefer to

keep silence about their state. I have seen many saints who have

reached high state of exaltation but leave body without coming in

limelight eventhough they might be living in our social surroundings.

 

We have also heard about the yogis in Himalays or other distant

places who we never know and who are able to achieve the salvation

with tapasya.

 

With regards,

Prashant Upadhyay

Om Namah Shivay

 

 

, " Walker " <Viator1

wrote:

>

> Thank you everyone for your responses. My question is born out of

> curiosity, innocence and some concern. I will restate and

elaborate

> my question.

>

> , Arakampakkam

> Thiaagrajan jagadeesan <atjags@> wrote:

>

> > pl put question proprly.

> > what r you trying to say.

> >

>

> I was doing some reading recently and it was pointed out that of

the

> billions of people who are following or have followed any of the

> religions that have some sort of enlightenment as the goal

(Hinduism,

> Buddhism, Taoism, and so forth) very, very, very few have actually

> gotten that goal.

>

> My questions are as follows.

>

> Is that really true? Why do so few people get enlightenment by any

> definition even though there are billions whose religions center

> around it? Is it so hard that only .02% of people actually

obtained

> it that try? Who has tried to fix this, to help more people get to

> the end of the road?

>

> I have been going to each of the traditions that I have access to

so

> that I can find the answers. Please understand that though the

> answer may be easy and obvious to you, this is something that is

very

> serious to me. Countless millions of people suffering, striving

and

> failing. It breaks my heart and drives me to find out why, even

> though it may be arrogant and foolish of me. I still have to try.

>

>

>

> Thank you for your time,

> James Jones

>

[Guest guest]

This was sent to me privately but as in the first paragraph the

person who responded referred to " we " more than once, I can only

assume that was in error.

--- ram mohan anantha pai <pairamblr wrote:

 

>

> me: James, you need to say what you were reading, so

> that may be we can understand what was stated there

> and what you have understood. Can you give the ref

> or web site etc so that we can read that?

 

Sure thing. It started with this quote.

 

" I once asked Katagiri Roshi, with whom I had my first break-

through ... how many truly great Ch'an and Zen masters there have

historically been. Without hesitating, he said, " Maybe one thousand

altogether. " I asked another Zen mas-ter how many truly enlightened—

deeply enlightened—Japa-nese Zen masters there were alive today, and

he said, " Not more than a dozen " Wilber, Ken (2001a), A Theory of

Everything: An Integral Vision for Business, Politics, Science and

Spirituality "

 

From there I did some nosing around talking to some of the Buddhists

I know(as a Buddhist this part was particularly easy) and the numbers

were around 10,000 or so, most of them a very long time ago(and

that's being generous with the amount of people who became

enlightened without telling anyone about it).

 

>

> me: James, will you be able to say Mr " X " is

> enlightened or mr Y is not enlightened ? To say

> that, (a) you must be enlightened ; (b) you must be

> able to test and verify .

> from what you say, you are not aware of what is

> enlightenment and you may not be in a position to

> test any one to verify because of your " ignorance "

> about

> " enlightenment " .

>

 

In some areas, yes. I can't verify for certain that X person is or

not enlightened but I can get some vague idea from the stories of

others and then extrapolate from the rest. What I do know for

certain is that enlightenment can be indirectly observed via some

external traits(in Buddhism, for example there are a large number of

external signs that manifest). These external signs have been

recorded in the history and religion of the traditions in question.

You can't gain an absolute 100% correct number but you can get a

fairly good estimate. Then double the number to account for any that

are missed and you are there.

 

Take what you can see and use it to find out what you can't see.

 

 

 

> It will be interesting to know " what have you

> been *understanding* from each " tradition " .

 

I think I was not clear. I can't claim to truly understand anything

about any tradition.

 

> What

> is serious and what is not serious?

 

The full quote from that is as follows

 

" Please understand that though the

answer may be easy and obvious to you, this is something that is very

serious to me. "

 

Allow me to explain that. I have been pursuing this research for

quite some time. In that time I have been laughed at quite regularly

for questioning things that everyone else thinks are very easy or

clear, it has been stated that I am obviously not serious about my

questions because they are so easy. These questions may be common

sense to you, but they are serious to me.

 

> You are talking

> about

> " countless *millions* of people suffering, striving

> and failing !!! How do you know all these?

 

Because I look outside my window, read the news, and have read what

enlightenment is supposted to be like and, more importantly, what it

isn't supposted to be like. If you just look at the statistics on

clinical depression worldwide alone there are(and this is an

extremely conservative estimate based on the World Health

Organization numbers) 113 million people who are trying to be happy

and are suffering from(quoting Wikipedia) " Persistent sad, anxious,

or " empty " mood " and " Feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt,

helplessness " .

 

> You

> say " it breaks " your heart and drives me to find

> out why?

> why do you think it is arrogant and foolish?

 

Because it could and has been said that people smarter, stronger and

greater than me have tried and failed. It is arrogant for me to say

that my research matters above those that were greater who came

before me, and foolish to believe that I have a chance to find

answers.

 

> and

> you end up saying

>

> you *still* have to try. what is it that you have

> to " try " ?

>

 

I have to try and find out why. Why, despite the fact that all of

these paths exist and they all claim to lead away from suffering, why

have so few people actually made it? Why is the world not exploding

with highly realized holy men and women?

 

> will you pl explain?

 

I hope my explanation is more clear.

[Guest guest]

Dear JamesYou have thrown very interesting question.The basic soul process in human form is Artha Kama Moksha.Each of us born are within the permutation cobination of the three.Artha (Learning, Earning etc)Kama (Desire)Moksha (to emerge with god)The progress to process the soul to moksha calls for various endeavors which every religion has got the guide lines as Theology & the content of spirituality is almost the same.Being or getting in moksha can never be the same for anyone its like climbing a steep hill some reach the top quickly some take a long time some take a path & find it thorny but still continue some do find it combination thorn stones & flowers/grasss all these are put in one word as Karmic by default.Having started the thought of Moksha & having decided to pursue it

you can say the journey has began.What we call as Moksha may be only step to move out of this process it can further progress to other forms after the moksha.Now your question is how many has attained moksha is a question that can be answered only by someone who has attained it .You can decide whether you need to get moksha or document how many have got moksha if you choose both that becomes your desire (kama) and you are very likely to achive it depending on the intensity of your wanting & working towards it.It could be possible in this life or a few lifes later(depends on fire of this desire) The vedic wisdom talks about restarting the spiritual progress from where it was left in the previous birth just like how a some of the new computer which can start from the point to continue before the power went off.These are some of my thoughts hope it helps you in your endeavor

regardsRajiv.

 

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[Guest guest]

Om namah shivaya

 

i personally have met 3 jivanmuktas. and there are 7 more but have not

met them personally.

 

path is very simple - stillness of mind and 100% surrender to inner guru

 

I am that

 

om namo narayan

[Guest guest]

Respected Anil ji, Pranams.

Yes True. " SIMPLE " - but not the 'Path' but the word

mantra " Stillness of Mind and 100% surrender to inner

Guru " - It is not that easy & simple to know & follow

than said outwardly. Inner Guru is EESWARA. Therfore,

in our sanatana dharma it is said & believed that

" unless EESWARA sankalpa (Grace) is there, you won't

get even iota of idea to know or pursue Moksha. Also

it is said that " Poorva Janma Sukrutam ONLY is the

basis for such sankalpas " .

Puranas are created only to explain in detail in

simple stories all these siddhantas - to discipline

the mind.

This is my opinion - hope other learned people will

help more clearly.

MBPrasadaRao.

--- anil <anil_bindal2000 wrote:

 

> Om namah shivaya

>

> i personally have met 3 jivanmuktas. and there are 7

> more but have not

> met them personally.

>

> path is very simple - stillness of mind and 100%

> surrender to inner guru

>

> I am that

>

> om namo narayan

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[janvipandit 0]

saw you post from 2008, moksha is not a religious state , it can be achieved when a person's evolution is completed.... when you break the status quo in life, choose not to become attached to anything or anyone, treat good and bad with similar emotion, challenge wordly norms, rejoice on the success of all humans. Read and question everything ,be open to all spiritual stuff... gather information, filter it into knowledge then wisdom which becomes part of your soul.... moksha is acheived

[sativares 0]

An old thread. But anyway, other people will still come here and read out of curiousity.

This may sound odd to the majority of the people that are into spiritualism ,such as the Vedas. But I am one of those who have attained Moksha. It's nothing weird about it, everyone can do it. It doesn't mean that you suddenly have to look like or act like a very old guru from India when this has happend to you; you are still free to do what ever you want and your personality is still the same after this experience.

And you know what. I attained it without even reading one page of any of the Vedic litterature =O How is this even possible? I just discovered the way to Moksha by my self; like a scientist discovered the atomic structure and wrote it down in a journal so other people could discover it in no time without to walk the long road; but it doesn't say that it is impossible for them to discover the structure of the atome without his journal.

Veda as I see it, is just a tool to reach stages without to get lost, so you don't have to look under every stone to find something spiritual; it's a giant map with a compase to many places.

For me I was just lucky to find Moksha, its like I was stubble on a root in the forest and found 1 million dollar, the person who put it there may be a criminal and drew a map to his partner so he could easily find it where it is; without the map he could wonder around for thousends of years and not find it, but sooner or later he would somehow find it - if he could live that long. But this is what we have the books for, so we don't have to stubble around for milleniums to find what we are seeking for. And noone should rely on me that you can be lucky as me to find Moksha in your lifetime without to read any of the Vedic litterature; the chances are even lesser to win the big jackpot on lottery. If one wins doesn't mean that you will be the very next lucky person to win it. It can take many thousends of years to win it. Why rely on that when you can get the numbers directly through the book?

Because of this I have been kicked out from spiritual organizations, being ignored by them or they are thinking I'm a lier because they can't fit their interpretation of the Veda to fit my story exactly. But as I see it's a cause of their ignorents. People interpretend the Vedas in many different ways. The only way to validate my experience is to experience it by them self, then they can exactly know if my experience is authentic or not, because the experience will be exactly the same for anyone who attains it.

I have been searching for people with exact authentic experience. Those who claimed that they have attained Moksha have after a while been shown that they really didn't attain it by time and some questioning; you can't get fooled when you have the real experience by yourself. But for the people who have not attained Moksha would easily fall into their falsely claimed attainment. That is the problem we have everywhere. There is no way to eliminate them, so you have to trust yourself when you choose any guru. If the gurus instructions doesn't lead you anywhere than it can be time to consider if you should change guru.

If there are any questions, just ask. If there are people out there who have attained Moksha are welcome to talk to me. So far I haven't found anyone who authentically achived the same thing.

I can give detailed information about how to attain it, and those who sincerely follow my instructions will achieve it - no doubts. There is only one way to the spiritual singularity; the method can differ from one to another, but the way is the same. We all works in the same way, there is no difference between the quality of one soul to another.

If I could transfere this information to the physicists, make them to experience it, I wonder what could lead to. I think this is a importain pieace which can make the spiritualism acceptible for the material scientists. Moksha can't be measured by a material instrument, it can only be experienced within your heart, and the heart is the gate way through the material world to the spiritual realm and no material energies has no place in this spiritual effulgence.

So if you are a physicist, you are much welcome to empty my self of all the knowledge I have about this experience.