A very promising chart for France

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My dear Thor,

 

You are welcome.

 

Yes, you are right...only time will tell us which to addopt

 

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

 

 

 

My dear Jorge,

 

Thank you for catching the error.

 

Indeed, RAHU aspects 5th house, 9th house, 11th house and 1st house - and not the 7th house. While a direct influence of RAHU on foreign policy is no longer seen through an aspect on the 7th house, there is a strong RAHU influence in the chart, including on both the 9th house of foreign matters and 1st house of self. Moreover, as RAHU exactly aspects the 9th house, its influence comes indirectly through the aspect of 9th lord, SATURN's on the 7th house. This links RAHUs influence to the 7th house. Overall, it would appear a reading of RAHU type diplomacy would be sustained by this chart, although it its effectiveness would appear less, given the weakness of SATURN and its affliction by KETU. This also seems to be consistent with the facts.

 

As for the question of which Republic event to use, it is a question which event for creating a republic would be more important: a republic that has been numbered as first or the one that is operating at the present time, the fifth. As France, as a nation, is much older than the Republics, as it has existed before they were created, the claim that the birth of a mundane chart for the country is tied to the first such formation appears to be less convincing than the choice of the most recent form of republic.

 

That said, the predictions can settle the matter.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

 

Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelinoSAMVA

 

 

 

Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:40:19 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

 

My dear Thor,

 

This Referendum chart seems to be also a very good tool for predictions.

 

An interesting point is that in all these charts, Venus comes always debilitated...

 

Your interpretation regarding a strong diplomacy is very interesting...but in the Referendum chart, Rahu is conjunct MEP5, aspectind the 1st, 11th and 9th, not the 7th.

 

The EXACT aspect over the 7th house only exists in the chart of First Republic.

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

 

 

 

Dear friends,

 

Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers .

 

Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system. Both planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves together as part of a nation.

 

MERCURY

A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic planet for Geminis.

 

VENUS

The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be periodic crises in the university education system and involving the young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.

 

SUN

3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.

 

So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps France has this tendency more pronounced.

 

GOOD FOOD

The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free of affliction.

 

WINE AND TOBACCO

The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture. More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.

 

GOOD NEIGHBORS

The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free relations with neighboring countries.

 

WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS

The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq. France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was opposed to the invasion.

 

HIGH FASHION

The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is admired around the world. The French fashion industry is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion executives and their houses have become famous around the world.

 

SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE

The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised health protection.

 

Monsieur le PRESIDENT

The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting that the current President has recently taken a wife that has something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an accomplished artist.

 

Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA

 

Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:34:06 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

Hello Jolastro, The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do support this.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

-

 

zemastro

SAMVA

 

Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:28 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

 

 

 

Hello SA friends,Is the 1° Gemini rising chart consistent with the very good health insurance french system, qualified as " the best in the world " ? Also with the fact that french people are quite anxious: they are

knonw as the biggest anxiolytic consumers.Best wishes,Jolastro SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Vyas,> > Further to what you have written, the indications of 9th house in

the mundane astrology as per SA are:> > Ninth House: Judicial system, morality, religion, diplomats, foreign missions, progress and development.> > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> and 8th house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning in earlier centuries. " >

> Indeed, this placement seems to make good sense. When in France, one sees the influence of Saturn as 9th lord on 1st and 7th houses through world famous churches (e.g. Notre Dame, Saint-Sulpice, St. German des Pres, Chartres), famous universities (e.g. Sorbonnes)

landmarks dedicated to famous philosophers (Descartes, Voltaire, etc.) or sculptors (e.g. Rodin, Pigalle), Palaces dedicated to the splendour of courts and diplomacy (Versailles) , museums (Louvre, Orsay, etc.),

etc. etc.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > > Vyas Munidas <muni >

 

 

> SAMVA > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:53:32 PM> Re: Re: A very promising chart for France

> > Dear Thor,> > The Professor has written:> > " The ninth house pertains to dharma, father, preceptor and the results of> past deeds. The results of past deeds makes our fortune in this

life. So> some indications can be got from the ninth house. " > > So this point has some merit.> > Verification of the past and lots of specific/detailed information on the > other hand, wouldn't be easy to extract. I've often been asked by

friends > about their past lives and my reply has always been, " I can speculate at > best, but I can tell the occurences likely to be expressed because of it. " > > > Best regards,

> > Vyas Munidas> > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ...>

> <SAMVA >> Friday, September 26, 2008 4:17 AM

> Re: A very promising chart for France> >

 

 

> My dear Vyas,> > The 9th lord is related to the indications mentioned. Saturn is> linked to old things. The weak but notable historical influences is> there.> > Best wishes,

> > Thor> > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,

> >> > I wasn't aware that the natal chart can indicate the previous> centuries as> > you've stated below:> >> > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> and 8th> > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony> > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning> > in earlier centuries. "

> >> > This is interesting. Please, if you may, draw a couple other> examples> > through the few verified charts we have.> >> > A couple points that stand out in my mind:-

> > - The effect of Saturn on the indicated MEP's is not great, since> it's in> > old age and badly placed.> > - Regarding religion, it would be weak in the present day,> considering the

> > weakness of the spiritual significators.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> > - > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@ >

 

 

 

> > <SAMVA >> > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:35 AM> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >> >> > My dear and list members,> >> > Thank you for sharing your assessment.> >> > Indeed, with a strong MOON as 2nd lord in the 10th house, France

> would have> > high status and be a wealthy country.> >> > The 3rd lord SUN is well placed in the 4th house but as it combusts> the 4th> > lord MERCURY without conjuncting it, it weakens both planets. The

> Sun's> > exaltation in Navamsa chart helps, but the initiatives would be> expected to> > succeed with delays. Affliction of 3rd house by KETU suggests> disturbance to> > its indications (as also noted in prior post).

> >> > The infancy, debilitation and combustion of 5th lord VENUS,> affliction of> > 5th house MEP by RAHU is not helpful to its indications including> children,> > universities, comforts, etc.

> >> > The good placement of 7th lord JUPITER in sign of Libra and 5th> house,> > however, make tourism important, though the heritage of France as a> country> > of fraternity, liberty and eaquality. However, there is some

> weakness> > associated with its placement there, due to weakness of its> dispositor> > Venus.> >> > Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house> and 8th

> > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony> > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning> > in earlier centuries.

> >> > The placement of 11th lord MARS in 12th house suggests some income> from> > abroad.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >

> >> > > > SIHA <vkchoudhry@ >

> > SAMVA > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:38:10 PM> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >> >> > Hello my dear Jo and Thor,> >> > Referendum is an important seal by the public in accepting the> proposal of> > De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

> > materialisation. This chart merits consideration for verifying the> past> > events and validating it with the help of predictions. The> contribution to> > the status of the head of the state in this case is represented by

> the> > strong Moon sitting in the tenth house.> >

> > Best wishes.> >> > > >> >> > -

> > Jo Cohen> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 26, 2008 2:13 AM> > Re: A very promising chart for France> >> > Dear Thor> >> > Thank you for bringing these points to our attention.

> > A long rectification work is needed.> > Maybe we can wait until our dear validates this> Gemini> > chart to start the work.> >> > Best Wishes

> >> > Jo> >> > - > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

 

 

> > <SAMVA >> > Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM> > A very promising chart for France> >> > Dear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,

> >> > A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this event> is the> > affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to> 9th lord> > SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house

of> > conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of> French labour> > movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for> ordinary> > people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules

communication.> Indeed,> > most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.> >> > A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the> transit and> > period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrest

> >> > The long transport strike in December 1995> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_strikes_ in_France> > transit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the

> 3rd house> > MEP and natal KETU.> >> > Related:> > The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed Islamic> Group> > (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In

> total, these> > attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of> the> > extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with> the> > assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic

> Salvation> > Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian> Civil War> > On July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-> Dame> > station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight

> were> > killed and 80 wounded.> > On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On> August 26,> > a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail

> line near> > Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris,> wounding 4.> > On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.> > A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through

> fingerprints> > left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members> of the> > French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near> Lyon.> > Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in

> station> > Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a> gas bottle> > exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame> stations of> > RER Line C, wounding 29.

> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_Paris_ Metro_bombing> >> > May 1968 riots> > On Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive

> Gauche. When> > the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the> crowd again> > threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the> morning> > after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which

> produced> > hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the> following day.> > The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the> aftermath was> > shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that

> the police> > had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by> burning cars> > and throwing molotov cocktails> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ May_1968

> > -Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct> natal KETU> > and aspecting natal SATURN> >> > This chart looks like it has some real potential.> >

> > I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and Professor> Choudhry for> > discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to> explain> > a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for

> France. Good> > timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain> of events.> > You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!> >> > This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!

> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> > France 5th Republic ref> > Sep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BST> > Paris Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50> > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SU

> >> > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > ============ ========= ========= ========= =========> > Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira Ma> > Sun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta Mo> > Moon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

> > Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika Su> > Merc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni Su> > Jupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati Ra> > Ven 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni Su> > Sat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha Me

> > Rahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma> > Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati Me> >> > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beats> > Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AM

> > Tithi: Krishna Pratipada> > Yoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju> > Dagha Rashis: Lib Cap> >> > Sytems Approach Analysis> > ============ ========= ===

> > Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,> > Moon Good Placement, Bright,> > Mars Bad Placement,> > Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,> > Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,

> > Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,> > Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,> > Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,> > Ketu Good Placement,

> >> > Rashi Chart> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> > ** 4 * * 2 **> > *5 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * MA 08:18* *

> > * * * * * *> > * * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * VE 00:42 * * * *> > ** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

> > *6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *> > ** RA 28:58 * * **> > *7 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > *JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 *

> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * SA 26:50 * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** 8 * * 10 **> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> >> > Navamsha> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> > ** 8 * * 6 **> > *9 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * RA * *

> > * * * * * *> > * * 7 AS * 5 *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** MO * * **> > *10 JU * 4 *

> > ** VE * * **> > *11* * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > *ME * 1 SU * 3 *> > * * * * * *> > * MA * * * *

> > * * SA * * * *> > * * KE * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** 12 * * 2 **> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> >> > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

> > ============ ========= ===> > Me/Mo 31.5.1958> > Me/Ma 31.10.1959> > Me/Ra 27.10.1960> > Me/Ju 16.5.1963> > Me/Sa 21.8.1965> > Ke/Ke 30.4.1968> > Ke/Ve 26.9.1968

> > Ke/Su 27.11.1969> > Ke/Mo 3.4.1970> > Ke/Ma 2.11.1970> > Ke/Ra 1.4.1971> > Ke/Ju 18.4.1972> > Ke/Sa 25.3.1973> > Ke/Me 4.5.1974> > Ve/Ve 1.5.1975

> > Ve/Su 31.8.1978> > Ve/Mo 31.8.1979> > Ve/Ma 1.5.1981> > Ve/Ra 1.7.1982> > Ve/Ju 30.6.1985> > Ve/Sa 29.2.1988> > Ve/Me 1.5.1991> > Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

> > Su/Su 1.5.1995> > Su/Mo 19.8.1995> > Su/Ma 17.2.1996> > Su/Ra 24.6.1996> > Su/Ju 19.5.1997> > Su/Sa 7.3.1998> > Su/Me 17.2.1999> > Su/Ke 24.12.1999

> > Su/Ve 30.4.2000> > Mo/Mo 1.5.2001> > Mo/Ma 1.3.2002> > Mo/Ra 30.9.2002> > Mo/Ju 31.3.2004> > Mo/Sa 31.7.2005> > Mo/Me 1.3.2007> > Mo/Ke 31.7.2008

> > Mo/Ve 1.3.2009> > Mo/Su 30.10.2010> > Ma/Ma 1.5.2011> > Ma/Ra 27.9.2011> > Ma/Ju 15.10.2012> > Ma/Sa 21.9.2013> > Ma/Me 30.10.2014> > Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

> > Ma/Ve 25.3.2016> > Ma/Su 25.5.2017> > Ma/Mo 30.9.2017> > Ra/Ra 1.5.2018> > Ra/Ju 11.1.2021> > Ra/Sa 7.6.2023> > Ra/Me 12.4.2026> > Ra/Ke 30.10.2028

> > Ra/Ve 17.11.2029> > Ra/Su 17.11.2032> > Ra/Mo 12.10.2033> > Ra/Ma 13.4.2035> > Ju/Ju 30.4.2036> > Ju/Sa 18.6.2038> > Ju/Me 30.12.2040> > Ju/Ke 7.4.2043

> > Ju/Ve 13.3.2044> > Ju/Su 12.11.2046> > Ju/Mo 31.8.2047> > Ju/Ma 30.12.2048> > Ju/Ra 6.12.2049> > Sa/Sa 30.4.2052> > Sa/Me 4.5.2055> > Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

> > Sa/Ve 20.2.2059> > Sa/Su 22.4.2062> > Sa/Mo 4.4.2063> > Sa/Ma 2.11.2064> > Sa/Ra 12.12.2065> > Sa/Ju 18.10.2068> >> >

> > Jo Cohen <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

 

 

> > SAMVA > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PM> > Re: France chart> >> > Hello dear > >

> > The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was> 22H00.> > For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.> > If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in

the> early> > degrees.> >> > Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were> known and> > published only the 4th october> > 1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, " the

> outcome of> > this> > referendum was not a surprise " . The referendum was not a real issue> > according to these same comments.> >> > From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

> > materialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958 when> De Gaulle> > presented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way> in> > Paris, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video

> document> > relating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the> link).> >> > With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant> and a very> > strong Sun in the tenth

> > house.> >> > I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.> >> > Best Wishes> >> > Jo Cohen> >> > link :> > http://www.ina. fr/archivespourt ous/index. php?vue=notice &

> from=themes & > > code=C0821788768 & num_notice= 1 & total_notices= 19> > You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative> video> >> > -

> > " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > <SAMVA >> > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PM> > Re: France chart> >> > >> > > Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,

> > >> > > I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the> chart. I> > > will wait for the results of your further research/info.> > >

> > > Best wishes.> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -

> > > " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

 

 

> > > <SAMVA >> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM> > > Re: France chart> > >> > >> > >> Hello dear

> > >>> > >> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.> > >> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn> ascendant.> > >> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness

of> the Sun> > >> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction> of Rahu> > >> on> > >> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth

Republic> > >> started,> > >> the head of state and the government were always very strong> while> > >> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to

> say that> > >> the> > >> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This> statement> > >> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.> > >>

> > >> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00> everywhere and> > >> 20H00> > >> for Paris.> > >> I will check about the closing times for 1958.

> > >>> > >> Best Wishes> > >>> > >> Jo Cohen> > >>> > >> - > > >> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

 

> > >> <SAMVA >> > >> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM> > >> Re: France chart> > >>> > >>

> > >>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,> > >>>> > >>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958,> as the day> > >>> and> > >>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the

> referendum> > >>> can> > >>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then> various> > >>> important> > >>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If we

> take this> > >>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are> shown in> > >>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.> > >>>

 

> > >>> Best wishes.> > >>>> > >>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -

 

> > >>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

 

 

> > >>> <SAMVA >> > >>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM> > >>> Re: France chart> > >>>

> > >>>> > >>>> Hello dear > > >>>>> > >>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.> > >>>>> > >>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade

> before,> > >>>> placed> > >>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the> nation> > >>>> to> > >>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional

system.> > >>>>> > >>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the> parliament to> > >>>> choose> > >>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the

> Fourth> > >>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a> > >>>> constitutional> > >>>> convention.> > >>>>

> > >>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his> > >>>> intention> > >>>> to> > >>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote

for> it (or> > >>>> against) through a referendum.> > >>>>> > >>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before> coming back> > >>>> the

> > >>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime> Minister under> > >>>> the> > >>>> IVth Republic.> > >>>>> > >>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go

for> this new> > >>>> constitution.> > >>>>> > >>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.> > >>>>> > >>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on

the> 4th> > >>>> september> > >>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.> > >>>>> > >>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was

favorable.> > >>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.> > >>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.> > >>>>> > >>>> Best Wishes

> > >>>>> > >>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> - > > >>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

 

> > >>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM> > >>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>

> > >>>>> > >>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>> -

 

> > >>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > >>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM> > >>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello dear > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the

> referendum.> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> - > > >>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > >>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM> > >>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the> referendom> > >>>>>>> may> > >>>>>>> be> > >>>>>>> interesting to look into.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -

> > >>>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

 

 

> > >>>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM> > >>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello dear > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held

> on 28th> > >>>>>>>> september> > >>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable or> not for> > >>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>> new> > >>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first> time to> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came

after> a long> > >>>>>>>> period> > >>>>>>>> of> > >>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to

> bring> > >>>>>>>> political> > >>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The> General de> > >>>>>>>> Gaulle

> > >>>>>>>> was> > >>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered> YES> > >>>>>>>> massively

> > >>>>>>>> (80%)> > >>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in> the> > >>>>>>>> Journal

> > >>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the> first> > >>>>>>>> president> > >>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> - > > >>>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>> > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > >>>>>>>> Cc: " John TWB " <jtwbjakarta@ .co. uk>> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is> > >>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the

> > >>>>>>>> publication> > >>>>>>>> of> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October

> 1958, in> > >>>>>>>> Paris.> > >>>>>>>> It> > >>>>>>>> is> > >>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic

came> into> > >>>>>>>> effect> > >>>>>>>> at> > >>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and> time for the> > >>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and> publication of

> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be

> the> > >>>>>>>> better> > >>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -

> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>>> SAMVA

 

 

> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth of

> the> > >>>>>>>> fifth> > >>>>>>>> republic> > >>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of

> this> > >>>>>>>> unique> > >>>>>>>> event,> > >>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see> attached jtl

> > >>>>>>>> files).> > >>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.> > >>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.

> > >>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.> > >>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it> takes a> > >>>>>>>> very

> > >>>>>>>> long> > >>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.> > >>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart

> for> > >>>>>>>> France.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - > > >>>>>>>> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

 

> > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the

> founding of> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> 5th> > >>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been

> established> > >>>>>>>> yet> > >>>>>>>> as> > >>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps

> French> > >>>>>>>> list> > >>>>>>>> members,> > >>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best wishes,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thor> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro (AT) ymail (DOT) com>

> > >>>>>>>> SAMVA > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM> > >>>>>>>> France chart

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by

SA> > >>>>>>>> astrologers> > >>>>>>>> ?> > >>>>>>>> Thank you.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bests regards,

> > >>>>>>>> Jolastro> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

 

I try to understand how you can clearly see these events in the

referendum chart:

 

13/07/2003: Moon's period / Rahu sub-period. Natal and transit Rahu

activate Mercury. Transit Rahu afflicts Mercury's mep and natal

Mercury from 12H. Transit Mercury is under close affliction of Ketu in

6H.

 

13/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Nodal axis exactly afflicts the mep.

 

29/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Transit Mercury under affliction of Rahu.

 

Am I rigth, Professor ? Did I forgot some important point ?

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> The no of airline accidents and the following important incidents

are clearly seen in the Referendum chart.

>

>

> Jul 13, 2003: Fire forces Eiffel Tower closure A fire has forced

more than 3,000 people to be evacuated from the popular tourist

landmark.

>

> Aug 13, 2003: Heat causes blackout in Paris

>

> Finally, on August 29, 2003, the government suddenly announced that

over 11,000 people had died in France's heat wave in the first half of

August alone.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> zemastro

> SAMVA

> Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:16 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

> Dear Professor,

>

> Thank you for your answer. I had thought about this explanation,

but

> was not sure. It's now clear.

>

> Best regards,

> Jolastro

>

> SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do

> support this.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Jolastro, You are right. I have not been able to understand what you want to say here:

 

13/07/2003: Natal and transit Rahu activate Mercury.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

-

zemastro

SAMVA

Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:45 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

 

 

Dear ,I try to understand how you can clearly see these events in the referendum chart:13/07/2003: Moon's period / Rahu sub-period. Natal and transit Rahu activate Mercury. Transit Rahu afflicts Mercury's mep and natal Mercury from 12H. Transit Mercury is under close affliction of Ketu in 6H.13/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Nodal axis exactly afflicts the mep.29/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Transit Mercury under affliction of Rahu.Am I rigth, Professor ? Did I forgot some important point ?Best wishes,JolastroSAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry wrote:>> Hello Jolastro,> > The no of airline accidents and the following important incidents are clearly seen in the Referendum chart.> > > Jul 13, 2003: Fire forces Eiffel Tower closure A fire has forced more than 3,000 people to be evacuated from the popular tourist landmark. > > Aug 13, 2003: Heat causes blackout in Paris > > Finally, on August 29, 2003, the government suddenly announced that over 11,000 people had died in France's heat wave in the first half of August alone. > > Best wishes.> > > > > > - > zemastro > SAMVA > Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:16 PM> Re: A very promising chart for France> > > > Dear Professor,> > Thank you for your answer. I had thought about this explanation, but > was not sure. It's now clear.> > Best regards,> Jolastro> > SAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry@> wrote:> >> > Hello Jolastro,> > > > The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do > support this.> > > > Best wishes.> > > > > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

About the influence of Rahu on the french foreign policy, I remember

the destruction of the Rainbow Warrior by french secret services in

july 1985 (07/10/1985).

 

In the referendum chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter 7HL. Activation of 9HL

Saturn (natal Saturn aspect 7H mep and transit Saturn in Jupiter's

house) and Ketu (transit Ketu in Jupiter's house). Transit Jupiter

debilitated in 8H, and Sun,Moon and Mars afflicted by activated Ketu.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

 

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> My dear Jorge,

>

> Thank you for catching the error.

>

> Indeed, RAHU aspects 5th house, 9th house, 11th house and 1st house

- and not the 7th house. While a direct influence of RAHU on foreign

policy is no longer seen through an aspect on the 7th house, there is

a strong RAHU influence in the chart, including on both the 9th house

of foreign matters and 1st house of self. Moreover, as RAHU exactly

aspects the 9th house, its influence comes indirectly through the

aspect of 9th lord, SATURN's on the 7th house. This links RAHUs

influence to the 7th house. Overall, it would appear a reading of RAHU

type diplomacy would be sustained by this chart, although it its

effectiveness would appear less, given the weakness of SATURN and its

affliction by KETU. This also seems to be consistent with the facts.

>

> As for the question of which Republic event to use, it is a question

which event for creating a republic would be more important: a

republic that has been numbered as first or the one that is operating

at the present time, the fifth. As France, as a nation, is much older

than the Republics, as it has existed before they were created,

the claim that the birth of a mundane chart for the country is tied to

the first such formation appears to be less convincing than the choice

of the most recent form of republic.

>

> That said, the predictions can settle the matter.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor 

>

>  

>

>

>

> Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino

> SAMVA

> Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:40:19 AM

> Re: Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

> My dear Thor,

>

> This Referendum chart seems to be also a very good tool for

predictions.

>

> An interesting point is that in all these charts, Venus comes always

debilitated...

>

> Your interpretation regarding a strong diplomacy is very

interesting...but in the Referendum chart, Rahu is conjunct MEP5,

aspectind the 1st, 11th and 9th,  not the 7th.

>

> The EXACT aspect over the 7th house only exists in the chart of

First Republic.

>

> Best wishes

>

> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers Professor

Choudhry.

>

> Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that

VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system.  Both

planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house

has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves

together as part of a nation.

>

> MERCURY

> A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a

moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic

planet for Geminis.

>

> VENUS

> The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord

VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS

is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a

pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective

harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign

trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an

imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th

house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be

periodic crises in the university education system and involving the

young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.

>

> SUN

> 3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The

influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this

chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the

needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence

of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.

>

> So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency

for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We

should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness

deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more

pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps

France has this tendency more pronounced.

>

> GOOD FOOD

> The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this

tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and

well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free

of affliction.

>

> WINE AND TOBACCO

> The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd

house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the

heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of

the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture.

More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on

tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great

resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that

is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence

of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also

captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge

Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and

sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.

>

> GOOD NEIGHBORS

> The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free

relations with neighboring countries.

>

> WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS

> The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of

foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world

class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration

other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of

the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations

involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq.

France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was

opposed to the invasion.

>

> HIGH FASHION

> The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction

of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER

in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion

of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is

admired around the world. The French fashion industry

is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to

the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due

to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion

executives and their houses have become famous around the world.

>

> SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE

> The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance

system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also

queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the

executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised

health protection.

>

> Monsieur le PRESIDENT

> The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the

country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give

calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful

postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting

that the current President has recently taken a wife that has

something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an

accomplished artist.

>

> Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous

indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

>

> SIHA <vkchoudhry

> SAMVA

>

> Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:34:06 AM

> Re: Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>  

> The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do

support this.

>  

> Best wishes.

>  

>

>

>

>  

> -

> zemastro

> SAMVA

> Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:28 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

> Hello SA friends,

>

> Is the 1° Gemini rising chart consistent with the very good health

> insurance french system, qualified as " the best in the world " ?

>

> Also with the fact that french people are quite anxious: they are

> knonw as the biggest anxiolytic consumers.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

>

> SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vyas,

> >  

> > Further to what you have written, the indications of 9th house in

> the mundane astrology as per SA are:

> >  

> > Ninth House: Judicial system, morality, religion, diplomats,

foreign

> missions, progress and development.

> >  

> > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> > and 8th house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and

> social

> > harmony through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy

and

> higher

> > learning in earlier centuries. "

> >  

> > Indeed, this placement seems to make good sense. When in France,

one

> sees the influence of Saturn as 9th lord on 1st and 7th

> houses through  world famous churches (e.g. Notre Dame, Saint-

Sulpice,

> St. German des Pres, Chartres), famous universities (e.g. Sorbonnes)

> landmarks dedicated to famous philosophers (Descartes, Voltaire,

etc.)

> or sculptors (e.g. Rodin, Pigalle), Palaces dedicated to the

splendour

> of courts and diplomacy (Versailles) , museums (Louvre, Orsay,

etc.),

> etc. etc.

> >  

> > Best wishes,

> >  

> > Thor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@ >

>

> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:53:32 PM

> > Re: Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > The Professor has written:

> >

> > " The ninth house pertains to dharma, father, preceptor and the

> results of

> > past deeds. The results of past deeds makes our fortune in this

> life. So

> > some indications can be got from the ninth house. "

> >

> > So this point has some merit.

> >

> > Verification of the past and lots of specific/detailed information

> on the

> > other hand, wouldn't be easy to extract. I've often been asked by

> friends

> > about their past lives and my reply has always been, " I can

> speculate at

> > best, but I can tell the occurences likely to be expressed because

> of it. "

> >

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ...>

>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Friday, September 26, 2008 4:17 AM

>

> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> >

>

> > My dear Vyas,

> >

> > The 9th lord is related to the indications mentioned. Saturn is

> > linked to old things. The weak but notable historical influences

is

> > there.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Thor,

> > >

> > > I wasn't aware that the natal chart can indicate the previous

> > centuries as

> > > you've stated below:

> > >

> > > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th

house

> > and 8th

> > > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social

> > harmony

> > > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and

> higher

> > learning

> > > in earlier centuries. "

> > >

> > >      This is interesting. Please, if you may, draw a couple

other

> > examples

> > > through the few verified charts we have.

> > >

> > > A couple points that stand out in my mind:-

> > > - The effect of Saturn on the indicated MEP's is not great,

since

> > it's in

> > > old age and badly placed.

> > > - Regarding religion, it would be weak in the present day,

> > considering the

> > > weakness of the spiritual significators.

> > >

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > > Vyas Munidas

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@ >

>

> > > <SAMVA >

> > > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:35 AM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > > My dear and list members,

> > >

> > > Thank you for sharing your assessment.

> > >

> > > Indeed, with a strong MOON as 2nd lord in the 10th house, France

> > would have

> > > high status and be a wealthy country.

> > >

> > > The 3rd lord SUN is well placed in the 4th house but as it

> combusts

> > the 4th

> > > lord MERCURY without conjuncting it, it weakens both planets.

The

> > Sun's

> > > exaltation in Navamsa chart helps, but the initiatives would be

> > expected to

> > > succeed with delays. Affliction of 3rd house by KETU suggests

> > disturbance to

> > > its indications (as also noted in prior post).

> > >

> > > The infancy, debilitation and combustion of 5th lord VENUS,

> > affliction of

> > > 5th house MEP by RAHU is not helpful to its indications

including

> > children,

> > > universities, comforts, etc.

> > >

> > > The good placement of 7th lord JUPITER in sign of Libra and 5th

> > house,

> > > however, make tourism important, though the heritage of France

as

> a

> > country

> > > of fraternity, liberty and eaquality. However, there is some

> > weakness

> > > associated with its placement there, due to weakness of its

> > dispositor

> > > Venus.

> > >

> > > Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> > and 8th

> > > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social

> > harmony

> > > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and

> higher

> > learning

> > > in earlier centuries.

> > >

> > > The placement of 11th lord MARS in 12th house suggests some

income

> > from

> > > abroad.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SIHA <vkchoudhry@ >

>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:38:10 PM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello my dear Jo and Thor,

> > >

> > > Referendum is an important seal by the public in accepting the

> > proposal of

> > > De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

> > > materialisation. This chart merits consideration for verifying

the

> > past

> > > events and validating it with the help of predictions. The

> > contribution to

> > > the status of the head of the state in this case is represented

by

> > the

> > > strong Moon sitting in the tenth house.

> > >

>

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

>

> > > Jo Cohen

> > > SAMVA

>

> > > Friday, September 26, 2008 2:13 AM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > > Dear Thor

> > >

> > > Thank you for bringing these points to our attention.

> > > A long rectification work is needed.

> > > Maybe we can wait until our dear validates

this

> > Gemini

> > > chart to start the work.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes

> > >

> > > Jo

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

>

> > > <SAMVA >

> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM

> > > A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > > Dear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,

> > >

> > > A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this

event

> > is the

> > > affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house

> to

> > 9th lord

> > > SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house

> of

> > > conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of

> > French labour

> > > movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for

> > ordinary

> > > people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules

> communication.

> > Indeed,

> > > most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.

> > >

> > > A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the

> > transit and

> > > period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrest

> > >

> > > The long transport strike in December 1995

> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_strikes_ in_France

> > > transit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly

the

> > 3rd house

> > > MEP and natal KETU.

> > >

> > > Related:

> > > The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed

Islamic

> > Group

> > > (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In

> > total, these

> > > attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage

of

> > the

> > > extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began

> with

> > the

> > > assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic

> > Salvation

> > > Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian

> > Civil War

> > > On July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel -

> Notre-

> > Dame

> > > station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network).

Eight

> > were

> > > killed and 80 wounded.

> > > On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people.

On

> > August 26,

> > > a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed

rail

> > line near

> > > Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris,

> > wounding 4.

> > > On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded

14.

> > > A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through

> > fingerprints

> > > left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by

members

> > of the

> > > French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills

near

> > Lyon.

> > > Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded

in

> > station

> > > Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a

> > gas bottle

> > > exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame

> > stations of

> > > RER Line C, wounding 29.

> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_Paris_ Metro_bombing

> > >

> > > May 1968 riots

> > > On Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive

> > Gauche. When

> > > the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the

> > crowd again

> > > threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in

the

> > morning

> > > after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation,

which

> > produced

> > > hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the

> > following day.

> > > The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the

> > aftermath was

> > > shown on television the following day. Allegations were made

that

> > the police

> > > had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by

> > burning cars

> > > and throwing molotov cocktails

> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ May_1968

> > > -Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house,

conjunct

> > natal KETU

> > > and aspecting natal SATURN

> > >

> > > This chart looks like it has some real potential.

> > >

> > > I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and Professor

> > Choudhry for

> > > discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential

> to

> > explain

> > > a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for

> > France. Good

> > > timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this

chain

> > of events.

> > > You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!

> > >

> > > This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > France 5th Republic ref

> > > Sep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BST

> > > Paris Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50

> > > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SU

> > >

> > > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > ============ ========= ========= ========= =========

> > > Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira Ma

> > > Sun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta Mo

> > > Moon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

> > > Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika Su

> > > Merc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni Su

> > > Jupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati Ra

> > > Ven 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni Su

> > > Sat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha Me

> > > Rahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma

> > > Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati Me

> > >

> > > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beats

> > > Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AM

> > > Tithi: Krishna Pratipada

> > > Yoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

> > > Dagha Rashis: Lib Cap

> > >

> > > Sytems Approach Analysis

> > > ============ ========= ===

> > > Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Moon Good Placement, Bright,

> > > Mars Bad Placement,

> > > Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,

> > > Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak

Dispositor,

> > > Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak

> Dispositor,

> > > Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,

> > > Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Ketu Good Placement,

> > >

> > > Rashi Chart

> > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> > > ** 4 * * 2 **

> > > *5 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * MA 08:18* *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * VE 00:42 * * * *

> > > ** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

> > > *6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *

> > > ** RA 28:58 * * **

> > > *7 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > *JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * SA 26:50 * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** 8 * * 10 **

> > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> > >

> > > Navamsha

> > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> > > ** 8 * * 6 **

> > > *9 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * RA * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * 7 AS * 5 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** MO * * **

> > > *10 JU * 4 *

> > > ** VE * * **

> > > *11* * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > *ME * 1 SU * 3 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * MA * * * *

> > > * * SA * * * *

> > > * * KE * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** 12 * * 2 **

> > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> > >

> > > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

> > > ============ ========= ===

> > > Me/Mo 31.5.1958

> > > Me/Ma 31.10.1959

> > > Me/Ra 27.10.1960

> > > Me/Ju 16.5.1963

> > > Me/Sa 21.8.1965

> > > Ke/Ke 30.4.1968

> > > Ke/Ve 26.9.1968

> > > Ke/Su 27.11.1969

> > > Ke/Mo 3.4.1970

> > > Ke/Ma 2.11.1970

> > > Ke/Ra 1.4.1971

> > > Ke/Ju 18.4.1972

> > > Ke/Sa 25.3.1973

> > > Ke/Me 4.5.1974

> > > Ve/Ve 1.5.1975

> > > Ve/Su 31.8.1978

> > > Ve/Mo 31.8.1979

> > > Ve/Ma 1.5.1981

> > > Ve/Ra 1.7.1982

> > > Ve/Ju 30.6.1985

> > > Ve/Sa 29.2.1988

> > > Ve/Me 1.5.1991

> > > Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

> > > Su/Su 1.5.1995

> > > Su/Mo 19.8.1995

> > > Su/Ma 17.2.1996

> > > Su/Ra 24.6.1996

> > > Su/Ju 19.5.1997

> > > Su/Sa 7.3.1998

> > > Su/Me 17.2.1999

> > > Su/Ke 24.12.1999

> > > Su/Ve 30.4.2000

> > > Mo/Mo 1.5.2001

> > > Mo/Ma 1.3.2002

> > > Mo/Ra 30.9.2002

> > > Mo/Ju 31.3.2004

> > > Mo/Sa 31.7.2005

> > > Mo/Me 1.3.2007

> > > Mo/Ke 31.7.2008

> > > Mo/Ve 1.3.2009

> > > Mo/Su 30.10.2010

> > > Ma/Ma 1.5.2011

> > > Ma/Ra 27.9.2011

> > > Ma/Ju 15.10.2012

> > > Ma/Sa 21.9.2013

> > > Ma/Me 30.10.2014

> > > Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

> > > Ma/Ve 25.3.2016

> > > Ma/Su 25.5.2017

> > > Ma/Mo 30.9.2017

> > > Ra/Ra 1.5.2018

> > > Ra/Ju 11.1.2021

> > > Ra/Sa 7.6.2023

> > > Ra/Me 12.4.2026

> > > Ra/Ke 30.10.2028

> > > Ra/Ve 17.11.2029

> > > Ra/Su 17.11.2032

> > > Ra/Mo 12.10.2033

> > > Ra/Ma 13.4.2035

> > > Ju/Ju 30.4.2036

> > > Ju/Sa 18.6.2038

> > > Ju/Me 30.12.2040

> > > Ju/Ke 7.4.2043

> > > Ju/Ve 13.3.2044

> > > Ju/Su 12.11.2046

> > > Ju/Mo 31.8.2047

> > > Ju/Ma 30.12.2048

> > > Ju/Ra 6.12.2049

> > > Sa/Sa 30.4.2052

> > > Sa/Me 4.5.2055

> > > Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

> > > Sa/Ve 20.2.2059

> > > Sa/Su 22.4.2062

> > > Sa/Mo 4.4.2063

> > > Sa/Ma 2.11.2064

> > > Sa/Ra 12.12.2065

> > > Sa/Ju 18.10.2068

> > >

> > >

> > > Jo Cohen <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PM

> > > Re: France chart

> > >

> > > Hello dear

> > >

> > > The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was

> > 22H00.

> > > For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.

> > > If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in

> the

> > early

> > > degrees.

> > >

> > > Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum

were

> > known and

> > > published only the 4th october

> > > 1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, " the

> > outcome of

> > > this

> > > referendum was not a surprise " . The referendum was not a real

> issue

> > > according to these same comments.

> > >

> > > From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to

its

> > > materialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958

when

> > De Gaulle

> > > presented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal

> way

> > in

> > > Paris, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video

> > document

> > > relating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the

> > link).

> > >

> > > With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio

ascendant

> > and a very

> > > strong Sun in the tenth

> > > house.

> > >

> > > I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes

> > >

> > > Jo Cohen

> > >

> > > link :

> > > http://www.ina. fr/archivespourt ous/index. php?vue=notice &

> > from=themes &

> > > code=C0821788768 & num_notice= 1 & total_notices= 19

> > > You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this

informative

> > video

> > >

> > > -

> > > " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

>

> > > <SAMVA >

> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PM

> > > Re: France chart

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,

> > > >

> > > > I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the

> > chart. I

> > > > will wait for the results of your further research/info.

> > > >

>

> > > > Best wishes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

>

> > > > " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

>

> > > > <SAMVA >

> > > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM

> > > > Re: France chart

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >> Hello dear

> > > >>

> > > >> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.

> > > >> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn

> > ascendant.

> > > >> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness

> of

> > the Sun

> > > >> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and

affliction

> > of Rahu

> > > >> on

> > > >> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth

> Republic

> > > >> started,

> > > >> the head of state and the government were always very strong

> > while

> > > >> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to

> > say that

> > > >> the

> > > >> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This

> > statement

> > > >> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.

> > > >>

> > > >> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00

> > everywhere and

> > > >> 20H00

> > > >> for Paris.

> > > >> I will check about the closing times for 1958.

> > > >>

> > > >> Best Wishes

> > > >>

> > > >> Jo Cohen

> > > >>

> > > >> -

> > > >> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

>

> > > >> <SAMVA >

> > > >> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM

> > > >> Re: France chart

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September,

1958,

> > as the day

> > > >>> and

> > > >>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the

> > referendum

> > > >>> can

> > > >>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then

> > various

> > > >>> important

> > > >>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If

we

> > take this

> > > >>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random,

are

> > shown in

> > > >>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be

> done.

> > > >>>

>

> > > >>> Best wishes.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> -

>

> > > >>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

>

> > > >>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM

> > > >>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Hello dear

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade

> > before,

> > > >>>> placed

> > > >>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on

> the

> > nation

> > > >>>> to

> > > >>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional

> system.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the

> > parliament to

> > > >>>> choose

> > > >>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of

the

> > Fourth

> > > >>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of

a

> > > >>>> constitutional

> > > >>>> convention.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly

> his

> > > >>>> intention

> > > >>>> to

> > > >>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote

> for

> > it (or

> > > >>>> against) through a referendum.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before

> > coming back

> > > >>>> the

> > > >>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime

> > Minister under

> > > >>>> the

> > > >>>> IVth Republic.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go

> for

> > this new

> > > >>>> constitution.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of

lawyers.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on

> the

> > 4th

> > > >>>> september

> > > >>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was

> favorable.

> > > >>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.

> > > >>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Best Wishes

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Jo Cohen

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> -

> > > >>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

>

> > > >>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM

> > > >>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.

> > > >>>>>

>

> > > >>>>> Best wishes.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> -

>

> > > >>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

>

> > > >>>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM

> > > >>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Hello dear

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the

> > referendum.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Best Wishes

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> -

> > > >>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

>

> > > >>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM

> > > >>>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the

> > referendom

> > > >>>>>>> may

> > > >>>>>>> be

> > > >>>>>>> interesting to look into.

> > > >>>>>>>

>

> > > >>>>>>> Best wishes.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> -

>

> > > >>>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

>

> > > >>>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM

> > > >>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Hello dear

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum

held

> > on 28th

> > > >>>>>>>> september

> > > >>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable

or

> > not for

> > > >>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>> new

> > > >>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the

first

> > time to

> > > >>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came

> after

> > a long

> > > >>>>>>>> period

> > > >>>>>>>> of

> > > >>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable

to

> > bring

> > > >>>>>>>> political

> > > >>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The

> > General de

> > > >>>>>>>> Gaulle

> > > >>>>>>>> was

> > > >>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people

answered

> > YES

> > > >>>>>>>> massively

> > > >>>>>>>> (80%)

> > > >>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published

in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>> Journal

> > > >>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became

> the

> > first

> > > >>>>>>>> president

> > > >>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> -

> > > >>>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: " John TWB " <jtwbjakarta@ .co. uk>

> > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino

is

> > > >>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with

the

> > > >>>>>>>> publication

> > > >>>>>>>> of

> > > >>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October

> > 1958, in

> > > >>>>>>>> Paris.

> > > >>>>>>>> It

> > > >>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic

> came

> > into

> > > >>>>>>>> effect

> > > >>>>>>>> at

> > > >>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and

> > time for the

> > > >>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and

> > publication of

> > > >>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to

be

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>> better

> > > >>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.

> > > >>>>>>>>

>

> > > >>>>>>>> Best wishes.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> -

>

> > > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > > >>>>>>>> SAMVA

>

> > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth

of

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>> fifth

> > > >>>>>>>> republic

> > > >>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation

of

> > this

> > > >>>>>>>> unique

> > > >>>>>>>> event,

> > > >>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see

> > attached jtl

> > > >>>>>>>> files).

> > > >>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.

> > > >>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.

> > > >>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.

> > > >>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know

it

> > takes a

> > > >>>>>>>> very

> > > >>>>>>>> long

> > > >>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.

> > > >>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic

chart

> > for

> > > >>>>>>>> France.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes

> > > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> -

> > > >>>>>>>> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

>

> > > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the

> > founding of

> > > >>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> 5th

> > > >>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been

> > established

> > > >>>>>>>> yet

> > > >>>>>>>> as

> > > >>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps

> > French

> > > >>>>>>>> list

> > > >>>>>>>> members,

> > > >>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this

> inquiry?

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Best wishes,

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Thor

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro (AT) ymail (DOT) com>

>

> > > >>>>>>>> SAMVA

> > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM

> > > >>>>>>>> France chart

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by

> SA

> > > >>>>>>>> astrologers

> > > >>>>>>>> ?

> > > >>>>>>>> Thank you.

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Bests regards,

> > > >>>>>>>> Jolastro

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

In my understanding of SA, that I still need to improve fully, when a

planet is in contact with the sub-period lord, it becomes activated.

On the 07/13/2003 transit Rahu aspects natal Mercury. Besides this,

Rahu also aspects Mercury's mep, increasing Mercury's activation. This

is my undertanding. Am I right ?

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

 

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

>

> Hello dear Jolastro,

>

> You are right. I have not been able to understand what you want to

say here:

>

> 13/07/2003: Natal and transit Rahu activate Mercury.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> zemastro

> SAMVA

> Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:45 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

>

> Dear ,

>

> I try to understand how you can clearly see these events in the

> referendum chart:

>

> 13/07/2003: Moon's period / Rahu sub-period. Natal and transit

Rahu

> activate Mercury. Transit Rahu afflicts Mercury's mep and natal

> Mercury from 12H. Transit Mercury is under close affliction of

Ketu in

> 6H.

>

> 13/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Nodal axis exactly afflicts the mep.

>

> 29/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Transit Mercury under affliction of Rahu.

>

> Am I rigth, Professor ? Did I forgot some important point ?

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

> SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > The no of airline accidents and the following important

incidents

> are clearly seen in the Referendum chart.

> >

> >

> > Jul 13, 2003: Fire forces Eiffel Tower closure A fire has forced

> more than 3,000 people to be evacuated from the popular tourist

> landmark.

> >

> > Aug 13, 2003: Heat causes blackout in Paris

> >

> > Finally, on August 29, 2003, the government suddenly announced

that

> over 11,000 people had died in France's heat wave in the first

half of

> August alone.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > zemastro

> > SAMVA

> > Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:16 PM

> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Professor,

> >

> > Thank you for your answer. I had thought about this explanation,

> but

> > was not sure. It's now clear.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Jolastro

> >

> > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do

> > support this.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro, Yes, you are right.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

-

zemastro

SAMVA

Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

 

 

Dear Professor,In my understanding of SA, that I still need to improve fully, when a planet is in contact with the sub-period lord, it becomes activated. On the 07/13/2003 transit Rahu aspects natal Mercury. Besides this, Rahu also aspects Mercury's mep, increasing Mercury's activation. This is my undertanding. Am I right ?Best wishes,JolastroSAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry wrote:>> > Hello dear Jolastro,> > You are right. I have not been able to understand what you want to say here:> > 13/07/2003: Natal and transit Rahu activate Mercury.> > Best wishes.> > > > > > - > zemastro > SAMVA > Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:45 PM> Re: A very promising chart for France> > > > > Dear ,> > I try to understand how you can clearly see these events in the > referendum chart:> > 13/07/2003: Moon's period / Rahu sub-period. Natal and transit Rahu > activate Mercury. Transit Rahu afflicts Mercury's mep and natal > Mercury from 12H. Transit Mercury is under close affliction of Ketu in > 6H.> > 13/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Nodal axis exactly afflicts the mep.> > 29/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Transit Mercury under affliction of Rahu.> > Am I rigth, Professor ? Did I forgot some important point ?> > Best wishes,> Jolastro> > SAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry@> wrote:> >> > Hello Jolastro,> > > > The no of airline accidents and the following important incidents > are clearly seen in the Referendum chart.> > > > > > Jul 13, 2003: Fire forces Eiffel Tower closure A fire has forced > more than 3,000 people to be evacuated from the popular tourist > landmark. > > > > Aug 13, 2003: Heat causes blackout in Paris > > > > Finally, on August 29, 2003, the government suddenly announced that > over 11,000 people had died in France's heat wave in the first half of > August alone. > > > > Best wishes.> > > > > > > > > > > > - > > zemastro > > SAMVA > > Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:16 PM> > Re: A very promising chart for France> > > > > > > > Dear Professor,> > > > Thank you for your answer. I had thought about this explanation, > but > > was not sure. It's now clear.> > > > Best regards,> > Jolastro> > > > SAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry@> wrote:> > >> > > Hello Jolastro,> > > > > > The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do > > support this.> > > > > > Best wishes.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

Thank you for your answer. I forgot: natal Rahu in Virgo also

activates Mercury.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> Yes, you are right.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> zemastro

> SAMVA

> Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:28 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

> Dear Professor,

>

> In my understanding of SA, that I still need to improve fully,

when a

> planet is in contact with the sub-period lord, it becomes

activated.

> On the 07/13/2003 transit Rahu aspects natal Mercury. Besides

this,

> Rahu also aspects Mercury's mep, increasing Mercury's activation.

This

> is my undertanding. Am I right ?

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

> SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hello dear Jolastro,

> >

> > You are right. I have not been able to understand what you want

to

> say here:

> >

> > 13/07/2003: Natal and transit Rahu activate Mercury.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > zemastro

> > SAMVA

> > Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:45 PM

> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear ,

> >

> > I try to understand how you can clearly see these events in the

> > referendum chart:

> >

> > 13/07/2003: Moon's period / Rahu sub-period. Natal and transit

> Rahu

> > activate Mercury. Transit Rahu afflicts Mercury's mep and natal

> > Mercury from 12H. Transit Mercury is under close affliction of

> Ketu in

> > 6H.

> >

> > 13/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Nodal axis exactly afflicts the mep.

> >

> > 29/08/2003: Moon/Rahu. Transit Mercury under affliction of Rahu.

> >

> > Am I rigth, Professor ? Did I forgot some important point ?

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > The no of airline accidents and the following important

> incidents

> > are clearly seen in the Referendum chart.

> > >

> > >

> > > Jul 13, 2003: Fire forces Eiffel Tower closure A fire has

forced

> > more than 3,000 people to be evacuated from the popular tourist

> > landmark.

> > >

> > > Aug 13, 2003: Heat causes blackout in Paris

> > >

> > > Finally, on August 29, 2003, the government suddenly announced

> that

> > over 11,000 people had died in France's heat wave in the first

> half of

> > August alone.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > zemastro

> > > SAMVA

> > > Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:16 PM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Professor,

> > >

> > > Thank you for your answer. I had thought about this

explanation,

> > but

> > > was not sure. It's now clear.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Jolastro,

> > > >

> > > > The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury

do

> > > support this.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

Thank you very much for your detailded description of the chart. Il is

very usefull for me as I need to improve my understanding of SA. I've

still a lot to do in this way.

 

Something I don't well understand: how can a very weak and afflicted

Venus (affliction of it's mep by Rahu)give so uninterrupted good

results ? Even if Jupiter is in 5H, the weakness of Venus should have

produce setbacks under FM transits,for fashion industry, perfume

industry, etc..

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers Professor

Choudhry.

>

> Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that

VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system.  Both

planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house

has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves

together as part of a nation.

>

> MERCURY

> A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a

moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic

planet for Geminis.

>

> VENUS

> The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord

VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS

is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a

pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective

harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign

trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an

imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th

house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be

periodic crises in the university education system and involving the

young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.

>

> SUN

> 3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The

influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this

chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the

needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence

of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.

>

> So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency

for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We

should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness

deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more

pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps

France has this tendency more pronounced.

>

> GOOD FOOD

> The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this

tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and

well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free

of affliction.

>

> WINE AND TOBACCO

> The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd

house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the

heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of

the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture.

More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on

tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great

resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that

is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence

of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also

captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge

Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and

sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.

>

> GOOD NEIGHBORS

> The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free

relations with neighboring countries.

>

> WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS

> The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of

foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world

class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration

other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of

the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations

involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq.

France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was

opposed to the invasion.

>

> HIGH FASHION

> The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction

of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER

in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion

of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is

admired around the world. The French fashion industry

is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to

the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due

to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion

executives and their houses have become famous around the world.

>

> SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE

> The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance

system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also

queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the

executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised

health protection.

>

> Monsieur le PRESIDENT

> The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the

country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give

calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful

postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting

that the current President has recently taken a wife that has

something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an

accomplished artist.

>

> Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous

indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro,

 

You are welcome. Glad to see so much progress being made in a short span of time with respect to developing an authentic chart for France. It seems we are on the right track with the referendum chart.

 

That said, you raise a thought provoking question with respect to the fashion and perfume industry. You are right:

- VENUS is well placed but very weak natally in the 4th house. It helps that MERCURY is also well placed in the 4th house along with 3rd lord SUN. So the 4th house is quite important to understand France. VENUS is also weakly influential in the chart in the areas of collective harmony and public life.

- RAHU's aspect on the 5th house is also a very serious affliction, especially as 5th lord VENUS is so weak in the chart.

 

Indeed, this would explain why France has produced some of the most stunning designs in automotive history (e.g. Citroen Pallas, 1967), but seen the cars were plagued with electrical and mechanical problems. The USA stopped importing the Citroen brand in the 1970s or 1980s due to the problems. Moreover, while French designs are stunning, the market for them is limited worldwide. US fashion houses produce watered down designs that do not seem to reflect the breathtaking designs of the French (and Italian) fashinon houses. So, for all their visibility, the French designs do not produce the commensurate benefit to France.

 

I would expect that if you were to examine the history of automotive design, fashion and perfume industry, you might find more problems than meet the eye.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

zemastro <zemastroSAMVA Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:50:41 AM Re: A very promising chart for FranceHello Thor,Thank you very much for your detailded description of the chart. Il is very usefull for me as I need to improve my understanding of SA. I've still a lot to do in this way.Something I don't well understand: how can a very weak and afflicted Venus (affliction of it's mep by Rahu)give so uninterrupted good results ? Even if Jupiter is in 5H, the weakness of Venus should have produce setbacks under FM transits,for fashion industry, perfume industry, etc..Best wishes,JolastroSAMVA , Cosmologer

<cosmologer wrote:>> Dear friends,> > Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers .> > Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system. Both planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves together as part of a nation. > > MERCURY> A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic planet for Geminis.> > VENUS> The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus

has a pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be periodic crises in the university education system and involving the young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.> > SUN> 3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.> > So, the chart suggests

there is some fundamental tendency for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps France has this tendency more pronounced. > > GOOD FOOD> The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free of affliction. > > WINE AND TOBACCO> The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of the daily food intake and the presence of

tobacco in modern culture. More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.> > GOOD NEIGHBORS> The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free relations with neighboring countries. > > WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS> The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world class

diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq. France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was opposed to the invasion.> > HIGH FASHION> The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is admired around the world. The French fashion industry is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international

appeal due to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion executives and their houses have become famous around the world. > > SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE> The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised health protection. > > Monsieur le PRESIDENT> The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting that the current President has recently taken a wife that has something of a

wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an accomplished artist. > > Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.> > Best wishes,> > Thor---

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

Thank you for your mail. I unfortunately don't have time enough to

investigate french automotive history. I try another way to check this

chart: in january 1986, France was in Jupiter sub-period. Transit ketu

was conjunct natal weak Jupiter while transit debilitated Jupiter

badly placed in 8H was under close affliction of natal Rahu. In the

same time, Jupiter's dispositor, nataly weak, was also very weak in

transit. I wonder if some significant event is consistent with those

astrological indications.

 

For the moment, I just found: january 14 1986, Daniel Balavoine, a

very popular french singer died in an helicopter crash in a foreign

land. I guess this event is relevant but not important enough.

 

Help from other french list members, and others, is welcome ! :-)

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

 

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> You are welcome. Glad to see so much progress being made in a short

span of time with respect to developing an authentic chart for France.

It seems we are on the right track with the referendum chart.

>

> That said, you raise a thought provoking question with respect to

the fashion and perfume industry. You are right:

>

> - VENUS is well placed but very weak natally in the 4th house. It

helps that MERCURY is also well placed in the 4th house along with 3rd

lord SUN. So the 4th house is quite important to understand France.

VENUS is also weakly influential in the chart in the areas of

collective harmony and public life.

>

> - RAHU's aspect on the 5th house is also a very serious affliction,

especially as 5th lord VENUS is so weak in the chart.

>

> Indeed, this would explain why France has produced some of the most

stunning designs in automotive history (e.g. Citroen Pallas, 1967),

but seen the cars were plagued with electrical and mechanical

problems. The USA stopped importing the Citroen brand in the 1970s or

1980s due to the problems. Moreover, while French designs are

stunning, the market for them is limited worldwide. US fashion houses

produce watered down designs that do not seem to reflect the

breathtaking designs of the French (and Italian) fashinon houses. So,

for all their visibility, the French designs do not produce the

commensurate benefit to France.

>

> I would expect that if you were to examine the history of

automotive design, fashion and perfume industry, you might find more

problems than meet the eye.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor 

>

>  

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

A major breakthrough occurred in French and world automotive history on October 1, 1955:

 

Paris, 1 October 1955. At the Grand Palais exhibition centre in Paris, a new car explodes onto the automotive scene and is hailed as a sensation by the contemporary press.The DS has arrived. Visitors and journalists from around the world look on in total amazement. The car presented by Citroën is completely unlike anything they have ever seen before. The Marque has just unveiled the model that is set to replace André Citroën's renowned Traction Avant.

http://www.citroen.com/CWW/en-US/HISTORY/LegendaryAndClassical/DS/LEGENDE/DS_1.htm

 

- Mercury/VENUS period was operating

- transit 5th lord VENUS at 22° Virgo was opposite natal 2nd lord MOON

- transit 4th lord MERCURY at 5° Libra was conjunct 5th house MEP

- transit 11th lord MARS at 29° Leo was conjunct natal VENUS at 1° Virgo

 

Indeed, a VERY propitious time for the indications of autmotive design.

 

 

Citroën goes bankrupt

"Huge losses at Citroën were caused by failure of the Comotor rotary engine venture, plus the strategic error of going the 15 years from 1955 to 1970 without a model in the profitable middle range of the European market, and the massive development costs for the GS, CX, SM, Birotor, Maserati Bora, Maserati Merak, and Maserati Khamsin models—each a technological marvel in its own right."

 

"Citroën was weak and unable to withstand the softening of the automobile market that accompanied the 1973 oil crisis. That year FIAT withdrew from PARDEVI and returned its 49% stake to Michelin. This was an ominous sign of things to come and, less than a year later, Citroën went bankrupt. The French government feared large job losses and arranged talks between Michelin and Peugeot, in which it was decided to merge Automobiles Citroën and Automobiles Peugeot into a single company. In 1974, Peugeot purchased 38.2% of Citroën and became responsible for managing the combined activities, in particular their research, purchasing, and investments

departments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn

 

Ketu/MERCURY period was operating

 

1973 and 1974 would have been VERY difficult years for the French economy:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun

Mars

Mercury

Jupiter

Venus

Saturn

Rahu

 

1.1.1973

16°Sg57'

7°Sc25'

1°Sg08'

24°Sg20'

23°Sc01'

21°Ta49'R

23°Sg19'

 

31.1.1973

17°Cp29'

28°Sc00'

19°Cp01'

1°Cp19'

0°Cp32'

20°Ta19'R

23°Sg14'D

 

2.3.1973

17°Aq47'

18°Sg56'

4°Pi36'

7°Cp54'

8°Aq02'

20°Ta24'

21°Sg58'

 

1.4.1973

17°Pi38'

10°Cp09'

22°Aq30'

13°Cp26'

15°Pi23'

22°Ta05'

19°Sg02'

 

1.5.1973

16°Ar59'

1°Aq26'

27°Pi24'

17°Cp15'

22°Ar30'

24°Ta59'

15°Sg58'

 

31.5.1973

15°Ta55'

22°Aq26'

28°Ta26'

18°Cp38'

29°Ta24'

28°Ta38'

14°Sg23'

 

30.6.1973

14°Ge34'

12°Pi25'

8°Cn08'

17°Cp15'R

6°Cn03'

2°Ge31'

14°Sg10'D

 

30.7.1973

13°Cn12'

29°Pi58'

29°Ge24'R

13°Cp47'R

12°Le26'

6°Ge11'

13°Sg59'

 

29.8.1973

12°Le01'

12°Ar28'

7°Le13'

10°Cp16'R

18°Vi21'

9°Ge08'

12°Sg26'

 

28.9.1973

11°Vi14'

15°Ar17'R

29°Vi29'

8°Cp48'R

23°Li31'

10°Ge55'

9°Sg21'

 

28.10.1973

10°Li56'

7°Ar08'R

2°Sc43'

10°Cp11'

27°Sc15'

11°Ge09'R

6°Sg23'

 

27.11.1973

11°Sc06'

1°Ar49'

21°Li12'

14°Cp06'

27°Sg28'

9°Ge47'R

5°Sg07'

 

27.12.1973

11°Sg35'

7°Ar20'

3°Sg57'

19°Cp50'

16°Cp50'

7°Ge27'R

5°Sg06'

 

26.1.1974

12°Cp09'

19°Ar39'

23°Cp19'

26°Cp37'

8°Cp42'R

5°Ge16'R

4°Sg31'

 

25.2.1974

12°Aq30'

5°Ta10'

12°Aq12'R

3°Aq47'

4°Cp50'

4°Ge17'R

2°Sg10'

 

27.3.1974

12°Pi26'

22°Ta10'

14°Aq55'

10°Aq44'

26°Cp18'

4°Ge57'

28°Sc53'

 

26.4.1974

11°Ar53'

9°Ge52'

2°Ar12'

16°Aq53'

26°Aq47'

7°Ge07'

26°Sc38'D

 

26.5.1974

10°Ta52'

27°Ge57'

1°Ge48'

21°Aq34'

0°Ar23'

10°Ge20'

25°Sc57'D

 

25.6.1974

9°Ge34'

16°Cn17'

18°Ge24'R

24°Aq06'

5°Ta19'

14°Ge06'

25°Sc51'

 

25.7.1974

8°Cn11'

4°Le52'

18°Ge23'

23°Aq52'R

11°Ge04'

17°Ge58'

25°Sc03'

 

24.8.1974

6°Le57'

23°Le47'

13°Le27'

21°Aq02'R

17°Cn30'

21°Ge27'

22°Sc51'

 

23.9.1974

6°Vi05'

13°Vi07'

0°Li33'

17°Aq11'R

24°Le32'

24°Ge03'

19°Sc52'D

 

23.10.1974

5°Li41'

2°Li56'

11°Li25'R

14°Aq42'R

1°Li59'

25°Ge20'

17°Sc38'D

 

22.11.1974

5°Sc47'

23°Li19'

20°Li37'

15°Aq03'

9°Sc38'

24°Ge58'R

16°Sc50'D

 

22.12.1974

6°Sg14'

14°Sc19'

7°Sg27'

18°Aq14'

17°Sg19'

23°Ge09'R

16°Sc34'D

 

21.1.1975

6°Cp48'

5°Sg55'

24°Cp58'

23°Aq31'

24°Cp55'

20°Ge44'R

15°Sc19'D

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:08:54 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

 

Hello Jolastro,

 

You are welcome. Glad to see so much progress being made in a short span of time with respect to developing an authentic chart for France. It seems we are on the right track with the referendum chart.

 

That said, you raise a thought provoking question with respect to the fashion and perfume industry. You are right:

- VENUS is well placed but very weak natally in the 4th house. It helps that MERCURY is also well placed in the 4th house along with 3rd lord SUN. So the 4th house is quite important to understand France. VENUS is also weakly influential in the chart in the areas of collective harmony and public life.

- RAHU's aspect on the 5th house is also a very serious affliction, especially as 5th lord VENUS is so weak in the chart.

 

Indeed, this would explain why France has produced some of the most stunning designs in automotive history (e.g. Citroen Pallas, 1967), but seen the cars were plagued with electrical and mechanical problems. The USA stopped importing the Citroen brand in the 1970s or 1980s due to the problems. Moreover, while French designs are stunning, the market for them is limited worldwide. US fashion houses produce watered down designs that do not seem to reflect the breathtaking designs of the French (and Italian) fashinon houses. So, for all their visibility, the French designs do not produce the commensurate benefit to France.

 

I would expect that if you were to examine the history of automotive design, fashion and perfume industry, you might find more problems than meet the eye.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

zemastro <zemastroSAMVA Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:50:41 AM Re: A very promising chart for FranceHello Thor,Thank you very much for your detailded description of the chart. Il is very usefull for me as I need to improve my understanding of SA. I've still a lot to do in this way.Something I don't well understand: how can a very weak and afflicted Venus (affliction of it's mep by Rahu)give so uninterrupted good results ? Even if Jupiter is in 5H, the weakness of Venus should have produce setbacks under FM transits,for fashion industry, perfume industry, etc..Best wishes,JolastroSAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear friends,> > Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers .> > Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system. Both planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves together as part of a nation. > > MERCURY> A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic planet for Geminis.> > VENUS> The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially

as VENUS is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be periodic crises in the university education system and involving the young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.> > SUN> 3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence of the SUN makes the other planets

combust, which weakens all of them.> > So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps France has this tendency more pronounced. > > GOOD FOOD> The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free of affliction. > > WINE AND TOBACCO> The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the heavy emphasis the French have traditionally

placed on wine as part of the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture. More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.> > GOOD NEIGHBORS> The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free relations with neighboring countries. > > WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS> The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of foreign

policy would also explain why the French are considered world class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq. France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was opposed to the invasion.> > HIGH FASHION> The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is admired around the world. The French fashion industry is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would

be linked to the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion executives and their houses have become famous around the world. > > SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE> The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised health protection. > > Monsieur le PRESIDENT> The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting that

the current President has recently taken a wife that has something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an accomplished artist. > > Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.> > Best wishes,> > Thor---

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro,

 

The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP, with an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air travel. This is an example of a setback one would expect with the configuration you asked about in this chart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun

Mars

Mercury

Jupiter

Venus

Saturn

Rahu

 

22.1.1989

8°Cp14'

7°Ar46'

14°Cp52'R

2°Ta23'

20°Sg22'

14°Sg18'

11°Aq25'

 

21.2.1989

8°Aq37'

25°Ar13'

12°Cp19'

4°Ta02'

27°Cp54'

17°Sg20'

11°Aq10'D

 

23.3.1989

8°Pi37'

13°Ta23'

26°Aq46'

8°Ta09'

5°Pi19'

19°Sg26'

11°Aq04'

 

22.4.1989

8°Ar08'

1°Ge50'

25°Ar31'

13°Ta54'

12°Ar31'

20°Sg13'

9°Aq28'

 

22.5.1989

7°Ta10'

20°Ge24'

10°Ta04'R

20°Ta33'

19°Ta28'

19°Sg33'R

6°Aq23'

 

21.6.1989

5°Ge53'

9°Cn01'

13°Ta19'

27°Ta29'

26°Ge10'

17°Sg45'R

3°Aq31'

 

21.7.1989

4°Cn30'

27°Cn45'

7°Cn35'

4°Ge11'

2°Le35'

15°Sg35'R

2°Aq13'D

 

20.8.1989

3°Le14'

16°Le40'

28°Le48'

10°Ge08'

8°Vi34'

13°Sg59'R

2°Aq06'

 

19.9.1989

2°Vi19'

5°Vi53'

14°Vi02'R

14°Ge39'

13°Li49'

13°Sg38'

1°Aq44'

 

19.10.1989

1°Li52'

25°Vi29'

17°Vi02'

16°Ge59'

17°Sc45'

14°Sg43'

29°Cp56'

 

18.11.1989

1°Sc54'

15°Li33'

6°Sc04'

16°Ge29'R

18°Sg37'

17°Sg03'

26°Cp49'

 

18.12.1989

2°Sg19'

6°Sc08'

21°Sg18'

13°Ge23'R

10°Cp16'

20°Sg14'

24°Cp04'D

 

17.1.1990

2°Cp53'

27°Sc15'

16°Sg43'R

9°Ge28'R

6°Cp03'R

23°Sg46'

22°Cp54'D

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

zemastro <zemastroSAMVA Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM Re: A very promising chart for FranceHello all,Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19 septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian terrorists. 170 people died.Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter 7HL. Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.Best wishes,Jolastro---

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

 

Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are very

active.

 

Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

terrorist attack ?

 

But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit Venus

the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the cause

of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature. Looking at

the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

position.

 

I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart the

most relevant one.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

 

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP, with

an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air travel.

This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

configuration you asked about in this chart.

>

>

>

> Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

11°Aq25'

> 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

11°Aq10'D

> 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

11°Aq04'

> 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

9°Aq28'

> 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

6°Aq23'

> 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

3°Aq31'

> 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

2°Aq13'D

> 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

2°Aq06'

> 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

1°Aq44'

> 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

29°Cp56'

> 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

26°Cp49'

> 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

24°Cp04'D

> 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

22°Cp54'D

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

> zemastro <zemastro

> SAMVA

> Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

> Hello all,

>

> Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian terrorists.

> 170 people died.

>

> Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter 7HL.

> Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

>

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

---

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro,

 

Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on matching

natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell tale

sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance of

charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of the

natal potential so very important, to give balance to this tendency.

 

Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not show a

good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

indicate the chart is not the right one.

 

More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with three

requirement. It has to show

 

- natal potential for the overall history

- historical fit for significant events

- predictive accuracy

 

for us to be certain of its authenticity.

 

In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential and

historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart truly

be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro wrote:

>

>

>

> Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

>

> Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

> Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are

very

> active.

>

> Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

> house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> terrorist attack ?

>

> But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

Venus

> the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

cause

> of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature. Looking

at

> the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

> clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

> Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> position.

>

> I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart

the

> most relevant one.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

>

>

> SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP,

with

> an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

travel.

> This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> configuration you asked about in this chart.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> 11°Aq25'

> > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> 11°Aq10'D

> > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> 11°Aq04'

> > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> 9°Aq28'

> > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

> 6°Aq23'

> > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

> 3°Aq31'

> > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> 2°Aq13'D

> > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

> 2°Aq06'

> > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

> 1°Aq44'

> > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

> 29°Cp56'

> > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

> 26°Cp49'

> > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

> 24°Cp04'D

> > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

> 22°Cp54'D

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > SAMVA

> > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello all,

> >

> > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

terrorists.

> > 170 people died.

> >

> > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter 7HL.

> > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> >

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello my dear Thor

 

Thank you for reminding the " traps " of partial analysis and the three steps

a chart has to go through successfully before being considered an authentic

chart.

 

Best Wishes

Jo

-

" cosmologer " <cosmologer

<SAMVA >

Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:10 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

 

 

Hello Jolastro,

 

Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on matching

natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell tale

sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance of

charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of the

natal potential so very important, to give balance to this tendency.

 

Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not show a

good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

indicate the chart is not the right one.

 

More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with three

requirement. It has to show

 

- natal potential for the overall history

- historical fit for significant events

- predictive accuracy

 

for us to be certain of its authenticity.

 

In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential and

historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart truly

be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro wrote:

>

>

>

> Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

>

> Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

> Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are

very

> active.

>

> Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

> house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> terrorist attack ?

>

> But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

Venus

> the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

cause

> of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature. Looking

at

> the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

> clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

> Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> position.

>

> I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart

the

> most relevant one.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

>

>

> SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP,

with

> an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

travel.

> This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> configuration you asked about in this chart.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> 11°Aq25'

> > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> 11°Aq10'D

> > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> 11°Aq04'

> > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> 9°Aq28'

> > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

> 6°Aq23'

> > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

> 3°Aq31'

> > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> 2°Aq13'D

> > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

> 2°Aq06'

> > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

> 1°Aq44'

> > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

> 29°Cp56'

> > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

> 26°Cp49'

> > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

> 24°Cp04'D

> > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

> 22°Cp54'D

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > SAMVA

> > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello all,

> >

> > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

terrorists.

> > 170 people died.

> >

> > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter 7HL.

> > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> >

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much, Thor, for this structured presentation of the

step-by-step approach of a land chart. I really need such helph

because I'm a beginner both in SA and mundane astrology.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on matching

> natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell tale

> sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance of

> charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

> would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of

the

> natal potential so very important, to give balance to this tendency.

>

> Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not show

a

> good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> indicate the chart is not the right one.

>

> More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with three

> requirement. It has to show

>

> - natal potential for the overall history

> - historical fit for significant events

> - predictive accuracy

>

> for us to be certain of its authenticity.

>

> In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

> necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

> have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential and

> historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart truly

> be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

> SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> >

> > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

> > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are

> very

> > active.

> >

> > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

> > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > terrorist attack ?

> >

> > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> Venus

> > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> cause

> > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

Looking

> at

> > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

> > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

> > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > position.

> >

> > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart

> the

> > most relevant one.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP,

> with

> > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> travel.

> > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> > 11°Aq25'

> > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> > 11°Aq10'D

> > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > 11°Aq04'

> > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> > 9°Aq28'

> > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

> > 6°Aq23'

> > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

> > 3°Aq31'

> > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > 2°Aq13'D

> > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

> > 2°Aq06'

> > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

> > 1°Aq44'

> > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

> > 29°Cp56'

> > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

> > 26°Cp49'

> > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

> > 24°Cp04'D

> > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

> > 22°Cp54'D

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> terrorists.

> > > 170 people died.

> > >

> > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

7HL.

> > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> > >

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

A usefull period to test the referendum chart could be from may 2009

to august 2009, durind wich transit Rahu will exactly afflict natal

weak Mercury from 8H. Venus subperiod will be running, therefore will

Mercury activated.

 

What kind of trouble should be expected under such astrological

configuration ?

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

 

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on matching

> natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell tale

> sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance of

> charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

> would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of

the

> natal potential so very important, to give balance to this tendency.

>

> Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not show

a

> good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> indicate the chart is not the right one.

>

> More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with three

> requirement. It has to show

>

> - natal potential for the overall history

> - historical fit for significant events

> - predictive accuracy

>

> for us to be certain of its authenticity.

>

> In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

> necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

> have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential and

> historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart truly

> be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

> SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> >

> > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

> > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are

> very

> > active.

> >

> > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

> > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > terrorist attack ?

> >

> > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> Venus

> > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> cause

> > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

Looking

> at

> > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

> > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

> > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > position.

> >

> > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart

> the

> > most relevant one.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP,

> with

> > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> travel.

> > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> > 11°Aq25'

> > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> > 11°Aq10'D

> > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > 11°Aq04'

> > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> > 9°Aq28'

> > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

> > 6°Aq23'

> > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

> > 3°Aq31'

> > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > 2°Aq13'D

> > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

> > 2°Aq06'

> > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

> > 1°Aq44'

> > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

> > 29°Cp56'

> > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

> > 26°Cp49'

> > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

> > 24°Cp04'D

> > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

> > 22°Cp54'D

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> terrorists.

> > > 170 people died.

> > >

> > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

7HL.

> > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> > >

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

My dear Jo,

 

You are most welcome and I hope we make progress here on this list,

at long last, to find an authentic chart for France.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SAMVA , " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo wrote:

>

> Hello my dear Thor

>

> Thank you for reminding the " traps " of partial analysis and the

three steps

> a chart has to go through successfully before being considered an

authentic

> chart.

>

> Best Wishes

> Jo

> -

> " cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:10 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on matching

> natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell tale

> sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance of

> charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

> would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of

the

> natal potential so very important, to give balance to this tendency.

>

> Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not show

a

> good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> indicate the chart is not the right one.

>

> More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with three

> requirement. It has to show

>

> - natal potential for the overall history

> - historical fit for significant events

> - predictive accuracy

>

> for us to be certain of its authenticity.

>

> In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

> necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

> have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential and

> historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart truly

> be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

> SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> >

> > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect natal

> > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing are

> very

> > active.

> >

> > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in benefic

> > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > terrorist attack ?

> >

> > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> Venus

> > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> cause

> > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

Looking

> at

> > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event is

> > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter activates

> > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > position.

> >

> > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two chart

> the

> > most relevant one.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house MEP,

> with

> > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> travel.

> > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> > 11°Aq25'

> > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> > 11°Aq10'D

> > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > 11°Aq04'

> > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> > 9°Aq28'

> > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°Sg33'R

> > 6°Aq23'

> > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°Sg45'R

> > 3°Aq31'

> > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > 2°Aq13'D

> > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°Sg59'R

> > 2°Aq06'

> > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°Sg38'

> > 1°Aq44'

> > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°Sg43'

> > 29°Cp56'

> > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°Sg03'

> > 26°Cp49'

> > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°Sg14'

> > 24°Cp04'D

> > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°Sg46'

> > 22°Cp54'D

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity: 19

> > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> terrorists.

> > > 170 people died.

> > >

> > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

7HL.

> > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> > >

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro,

 

You are welcome. You are truly lucky to start your mundane astrology

inquiry with SA. You won't have to waste your precious time on

confusions and contradictions so prevalent in other techniques.

Rather you can use your time wisely by learning to apply SA in the

mundane sphere.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro wrote:

>

>

>

> Thank you very much, Thor, for this structured presentation of the

> step-by-step approach of a land chart. I really need such helph

> because I'm a beginner both in SA and mundane astrology.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

>

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on

matching

> > natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell

tale

> > sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance

of

> > charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

> > would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> > chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of

> the

> > natal potential so very important, to give balance to this

tendency.

> >

> > Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not

show

> a

> > good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> > indicate the chart is not the right one.

> >

> > More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with

three

> > requirement. It has to show

> >

> > - natal potential for the overall history

> > - historical fit for significant events

> > - predictive accuracy

> >

> > for us to be certain of its authenticity.

> >

> > In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

> > necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

> > have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential

and

> > historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> > through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart

truly

> > be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> > >

> > > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect

natal

> > > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing

are

> > very

> > > active.

> > >

> > > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in

benefic

> > > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > > terrorist attack ?

> > >

> > > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> > Venus

> > > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> > cause

> > > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

> Looking

> > at

> > > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event

is

> > > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter

activates

> > > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > > position.

> > >

> > > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two

chart

> > the

> > > most relevant one.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Jolastro,

> > > >

> > > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house

MEP,

> > with

> > > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> > travel.

> > > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> > > 11°Aq25'

> > > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> > > 11°Aq10'D

> > > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > > 11°Aq04'

> > > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> > > 9°Aq28'

> > > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°

Sg33'R

> > > 6°Aq23'

> > > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°

Sg45'R

> > > 3°Aq31'

> > > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > > 2°Aq13'D

> > > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°

Sg59'R

> > > 2°Aq06'

> > > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°

Sg38'

> > > 1°Aq44'

> > > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°

Sg43'

> > > 29°Cp56'

> > > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°

Sg03'

> > > 26°Cp49'

> > > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°

Sg14'

> > > 24°Cp04'D

> > > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°

Sg46'

> > > 22°Cp54'D

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > > SAMVA

> > > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello all,

> > > >

> > > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity:

19

> > > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> > terrorists.

> > > > 170 people died.

> > > >

> > > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

> 7HL.

> > > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Jolastro

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro,

 

The aspect of a transit stationary RAHU at 6° 25' Capricorn and 8th

house in aspect to natal 4th lord MERCURY at 6° 36' Virgo and 4th

house suggests deceit or manipulation will be exposed that creates a

crisis of the nature of obstacles and endings for the indications of

4th lord MERCURY in the 4th house (see below). The situation would be

upsetting for the population. The situation would also result in

difficulty for the indications of SUN as 3rd lord and VENUS as 5th

lord. That said a study of significant events in the history of

France in terms of transits and periods in the chart, would improve

the conceptualisation of what to expect.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

4TH HOUSE: The fourth house rules the nation's natural resources,

agriculture, mines, minerals, landed properties, peace, general and

political stability, natural calamities, educational institutions,

law and order, housing and communal harmony.

 

MERCURY: Strategists, advisors to head of state and intellectuals.

 

RAHU: Diplomatic moves, manipulations and deceit.

 

8TH HOUSE: The eighth house rules beliefs of the masses, red-tapism,

speed of execution of works, delays and obstructions, accidents,

fatal accidents, epidemics, gold and precious stones, legacies,

capital gains, floods, earthquakes, cyclones, storms, etc.

 

SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro wrote:

>

>

>

> Hello Thor,

>

> A usefull period to test the referendum chart could be from may

2009

> to august 2009, durind wich transit Rahu will exactly afflict natal

> weak Mercury from 8H. Venus subperiod will be running, therefore

will

> Mercury activated.

>

> What kind of trouble should be expected under such astrological

> configuration ?

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>

>

>

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Jolastro,

> >

> > Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on

matching

> > natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell

tale

> > sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance

of

> > charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such charts

> > would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> > chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading of

> the

> > natal potential so very important, to give balance to this

tendency.

> >

> > Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not

show

> a

> > good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> > indicate the chart is not the right one.

> >

> > More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with

three

> > requirement. It has to show

> >

> > - natal potential for the overall history

> > - historical fit for significant events

> > - predictive accuracy

> >

> > for us to be certain of its authenticity.

> >

> > In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is a

> > necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think we

> > have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential

and

> > historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> > through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart

truly

> > be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> > >

> > > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect

natal

> > > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing

are

> > very

> > > active.

> > >

> > > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in

benefic

> > > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > > terrorist attack ?

> > >

> > > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> > Venus

> > > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> > cause

> > > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

> Looking

> > at

> > > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event

is

> > > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter

activates

> > > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > > position.

> > >

> > > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two

chart

> > the

> > > most relevant one.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Jolastro

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Jolastro,

> > > >

> > > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house

MEP,

> > with

> > > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> > travel.

> > > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22' 14°Sg18'

> > > 11°Aq25'

> > > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54' 17°Sg20'

> > > 11°Aq10'D

> > > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > > 11°Aq04'

> > > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31' 20°Sg13'

> > > 9°Aq28'

> > > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°

Sg33'R

> > > 6°Aq23'

> > > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°

Sg45'R

> > > 3°Aq31'

> > > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > > 2°Aq13'D

> > > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°

Sg59'R

> > > 2°Aq06'

> > > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°

Sg38'

> > > 1°Aq44'

> > > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°

Sg43'

> > > 29°Cp56'

> > > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°

Sg03'

> > > 26°Cp49'

> > > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°

Sg14'

> > > 24°Cp04'D

> > > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°

Sg46'

> > > 22°Cp54'D

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > > SAMVA

> > > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello all,

> > > >

> > > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's validity:

19

> > > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> > terrorists.

> > > > 170 people died.

> > > >

> > > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

> 7HL.

> > > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting AS.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Jolastro

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

Thank you very much for this clear explanation.

 

About difficulty for Sun and Venus, I guess it's because of Mercury's

weakening during its affliction by Rahu. Thereof, Venus will be more

stressed by Rahu's affliction to its mep, and the Sun will lack of

energy to face Ketu's affliction to its mep. And during afflictions of

transit Venus or Sun, their difficulty will increase. Am I right ?

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> The aspect of a transit stationary RAHU at 6° 25' Capricorn and 8th

> house in aspect to natal 4th lord MERCURY at 6° 36' Virgo and 4th

> house suggests deceit or manipulation will be exposed that creates a

> crisis of the nature of obstacles and endings for the indications of

> 4th lord MERCURY in the 4th house (see below). The situation would

be

> upsetting for the population. The situation would also result in

> difficulty for the indications of SUN as 3rd lord and VENUS as 5th

> lord. That said a study of significant events in the history of

> France in terms of transits and periods in the chart, would improve

> the conceptualisation of what to expect.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> 4TH HOUSE: The fourth house rules the nation's natural resources,

> agriculture, mines, minerals, landed properties, peace, general and

> political stability, natural calamities, educational institutions,

> law and order, housing and communal harmony.

>

> MERCURY: Strategists, advisors to head of state and intellectuals.

>

> RAHU: Diplomatic moves, manipulations and deceit.

>

> 8TH HOUSE: The eighth house rules beliefs of the masses, red-tapism,

> speed of execution of works, delays and obstructions, accidents,

> fatal accidents, epidemics, gold and precious stones, legacies,

> capital gains, floods, earthquakes, cyclones, storms, etc.

>

> SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Thor,

> >

> > A usefull period to test the referendum chart could be from may

> 2009

> > to august 2009, durind wich transit Rahu will exactly afflict

natal

> > weak Mercury from 8H. Venus subperiod will be running, therefore

> will

> > Mercury activated.

> >

> > What kind of trouble should be expected under such astrological

> > configuration ?

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Jolastro

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jolastro,

> > >

> > > Many people try to use a purely technical approach based on

> matching

> > > natal or transit placements of FMs with some indicators. A tell

> tale

> > > sign of this approach, is that they come up with a preponderance

> of

> > > charts with more FMs like Virgo and Cancer ascendant. Such

charts

> > > would give a better probability of finding a match even when the

> > > chart is not authentic. In my experience, this makes a reading

of

> > the

> > > natal potential so very important, to give balance to this

> tendency.

> > >

> > > Moroever, if we find a significant event that a chart does not

> show

> > a

> > > good fit to, then this has to be examined carefully. It could

> > > indicate the chart is not the right one.

> > >

> > > More importantly, we need to qualify any proposed chart with

> three

> > > requirement. It has to show

> > >

> > > - natal potential for the overall history

> > > - historical fit for significant events

> > > - predictive accuracy

> > >

> > > for us to be certain of its authenticity.

> > >

> > > In other words, analysing natal potential and historical fit is

a

> > > necessary but not sufficient condition. However, once we think

we

> > > have a chart that gives promise with regard to natal potential

> and

> > > historical fit, the third and most demanding stage is addressed

> > > through predictions. Only after passing this test can a chart

> truly

> > > be considered authentic, like the SAMVA USA chart.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " zemastro " <zemastro@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello Thor, hello Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > Yes. Natal Saturn highly activates Ketu (Natal Ketu aspect

> natal

> > > > Saturn, transit Ketu aspect natal Saturn and Saturn's mep) and

> > > > activates natal Venus, too. So, the transits you are pointing

> are

> > > very

> > > > active.

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps the good placement of transit Venus (in it's MT in

> benefic

> > > > house) under the exact aspect of transit Jupiter and close

> > > > conjunction of natal Jupiter, has reduced the gravity of this

> > > > terrorist attack ?

> > > >

> > > > But, because of the exact aspect of transit Jupiter to transit

> > > Venus

> > > > the day the crash occured, I wonder if Jupiter couldn't be the

> > > cause

> > > > of this event. This suppose it would have a malefic nature.

> > Looking

> > > at

> > > > the chart proposed by Jorge Angelino, I notice that this event

> is

> > > > clearly indicated in this chart: Venus/Jupiter. Jupiter

> activates

> > > > Venus. Jupiter 6HL afflicting Venus from its natal and transit

> > > > position.

> > > >

> > > > I think this event can't be used to choose between those two

> chart

> > > the

> > > > most relevant one.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Jolastro

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Jolastro

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Jolastro,

> > > > >

> > > > > The relevant aspect is the nodal station on the 3rd house

> MEP,

> > > with

> > > > an aspect to 5th house, ruled by VENUS, the indicator of air

> > > travel.

> > > > This is an example of a setback one would expect with the

> > > > configuration you asked about in this chart.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturn Rahu

> > > > > 22.1.1989 8°Cp14' 7°Ar46' 14°Cp52'R 2°Ta23' 20°Sg22'

14°Sg18'

> > > > 11°Aq25'

> > > > > 21.2.1989 8°Aq37' 25°Ar13' 12°Cp19' 4°Ta02' 27°Cp54'

17°Sg20'

> > > > 11°Aq10'D

> > > > > 23.3.1989 8°Pi37' 13°Ta23' 26°Aq46' 8°Ta09' 5°Pi19' 19°Sg26'

> > > > 11°Aq04'

> > > > > 22.4.1989 8°Ar08' 1°Ge50' 25°Ar31' 13°Ta54' 12°Ar31'

20°Sg13'

> > > > 9°Aq28'

> > > > > 22.5.1989 7°Ta10' 20°Ge24' 10°Ta04'R 20°Ta33' 19°Ta28' 19°

> Sg33'R

> > > > 6°Aq23'

> > > > > 21.6.1989 5°Ge53' 9°Cn01' 13°Ta19' 27°Ta29' 26°Ge10' 17°

> Sg45'R

> > > > 3°Aq31'

> > > > > 21.7.1989 4°Cn30' 27°Cn45' 7°Cn35' 4°Ge11' 2°Le35' 15°Sg35'R

> > > > 2°Aq13'D

> > > > > 20.8.1989 3°Le14' 16°Le40' 28°Le48' 10°Ge08' 8°Vi34' 13°

> Sg59'R

> > > > 2°Aq06'

> > > > > 19.9.1989 2°Vi19' 5°Vi53' 14°Vi02'R 14°Ge39' 13°Li49' 13°

> Sg38'

> > > > 1°Aq44'

> > > > > 19.10.1989 1°Li52' 25°Vi29' 17°Vi02' 16°Ge59' 17°Sc45' 14°

> Sg43'

> > > > 29°Cp56'

> > > > > 18.11.1989 1°Sc54' 15°Li33' 6°Sc04' 16°Ge29'R 18°Sg37' 17°

> Sg03'

> > > > 26°Cp49'

> > > > > 18.12.1989 2°Sg19' 6°Sc08' 21°Sg18' 13°Ge23'R 10°Cp16' 20°

> Sg14'

> > > > 24°Cp04'D

> > > > > 17.1.1990 2°Cp53' 27°Sc15' 16°Sg43'R 9°Ge28'R 6°Cp03'R 23°

> Sg46'

> > > > 22°Cp54'D

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thor

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > zemastro <zemastro@>

> > > > > SAMVA

> > > > > Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:10:51 PM

> > > > > Re: A very promising chart for France

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello all,

> > > > >

> > > > > Another important event, perhaps confirming chart's

validity:

> 19

> > > > > septembre 1989, a french plane crashed because of lybian

> > > terrorists.

> > > > > 170 people died.

> > > > >

> > > > > Venus/Saturn. Transit Saturn in 7H aspecting transit Jupiter

> > 7HL.

> > > > > Transit Rahu exactly conjunct Saturn's mep, and afflicting

AS.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > Jolastro

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor,

 

Thank you for kind words. Yes, I'm lucky to find such a high quality

astrology teaching. Before SA, I studied western astrology for many

years, also with a very good professor teaching a very efficient

method for psychologic investigation. I guess this luck comes from the

Moon Cancer, 9HL in 9H, and from Jupiter Sagittarius in my vedic birth

chart. I offen thank God for this.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> You are welcome. You are truly lucky to start your mundane astrology

> inquiry with SA. You won't have to waste your precious time on

> confusions and contradictions so prevalent in other techniques.

> Rather you can use your time wisely by learning to apply SA in the

> mundane sphere.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor, and friends,

 

I remember an important event, interesting for us: on the 26 and 27

december 1999, a huge storm devasteted lots of french's forest and

disturbed significantly the life of numerous people. Storms are rare

in France.

 

In the referendum chart, Sun's period was running and Kétu's

sub-period just began 3 days ago. Transit Ketu afflicted exactly natal

Sun in 4H (land) from 8H (natural desasters). Jupiter (wealth ?)was

stationnary on natal Ketu.

 

Another storm disturb the north of France on the 18 january 2007:

Moon/Saturn running. Natal Ketu afflicts natal and transit Saturn.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

[Guest guest]

Hello Jolastro, These important events add to the level of confidence in the chart.

 

Best wishes.

 

-

zemastro

SAMVA

Monday, September 29, 2008 10:58 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

 

 

Dear Thor, and friends, I remember an important event, interesting for us: on the 26 and 27december 1999, a huge storm devasteted lots of french's forest anddisturbed significantly the life of numerous people. Storms are rarein France.In the referendum chart, Sun's period was running and Kétu'ssub-period just began 3 days ago. Transit Ketu afflicted exactly natalSun in 4H (land) from 8H (natural desasters). Jupiter (wealth ?)wasstationnary on natal Ketu.Another storm disturb the north of France on the 18 january 2007:Moon/Saturn running. Natal Ketu afflicts natal and transit Saturn.Best wishes,Jolastro

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

Thank you for sharing your conclusion so quickly. I'm happy to

participate at this interesesting discussion. I just feel limited by

my low level in english, but do my best.

 

Best wishes,

Jolastro

 

 

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

>

> Hello Jolastro,

>

> These important events add to the level of confidence in the chart.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

> -

> zemastro

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 29, 2008 10:58 PM

> Re: A very promising chart for France

>

>

>

>

> Dear Thor, and friends,

>

> I remember an important event, interesting for us: on the 26 and 27

> december 1999, a huge storm devasteted lots of french's forest and

> disturbed significantly the life of numerous people. Storms are rare

> in France.

>

> In the referendum chart, Sun's period was running and Kétu's

> sub-period just began 3 days ago. Transit Ketu afflicted exactly natal

> Sun in 4H (land) from 8H (natural desasters). Jupiter (wealth ?)was

> stationnary on natal Ketu.

>

> Another storm disturb the north of France on the 18 january 2007:

> Moon/Saturn running. Natal Ketu afflicts natal and transit Saturn.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

>