A very promising chart for France

September 25, 2008

Dear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,

A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this event is the affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to 9th lord SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house of conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of French labour movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for ordinary people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules communication. Indeed, most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.

A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the transit and period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrest

The long transport strike in December 1995

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_strikes_in_France

transit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the 3rd house MEP and natal KETU.

The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed Islamic Group (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In total, these attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of the extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with the assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian Civil War

On July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight were killed and 80 wounded.

On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On August 26, a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail line near Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris, wounding 4. On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.

A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through fingerprints left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members of the French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near Lyon.

Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in station Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a gas bottle exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame stations of RER Line C, wounding 29.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Metro_bombing

May 1968 riots

On Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive Gauche. When the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the crowd again threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the morning after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which produced hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the following day. The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the aftermath was shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that the police had participated, through agents

provocateurs, in the riots, by burning cars and throwing molotov cocktails

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968

-Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct natal KETU and aspecting natal SATURN

This chart looks like it has some real potential.

I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and for discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to explain a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for France. Good timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain of events. You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!

This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!

Best wishes,

Thor

France 5th Republic ref

Sep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BST

Paris Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50

Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SU

Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

================================================

Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira Ma

Sun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta Mo

Moon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika Su

Merc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni Su

Jupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati Ra

Ven 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni Su

Sat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha Me

Rahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma

Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati Me

True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beats

Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AM

Tithi: Krishna Pratipada

Yoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

Dagha Rashis: Lib Cap

Sytems Approach Analysis

========================

Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Moon Good Placement, Bright,

Mars Bad Placement,

Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,

Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,

Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,

Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,

Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Ketu Good Placement,

Rashi Chart

*******************************************************

** 4 * * 2 **

*5 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * MA 08:18* *

* * * * * *

* * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 *

* * * * * *

* * VE 00:42 * * * *

** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

*6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *

** RA 28:58 * * **

*7 * * * * *

* * * * * *

*JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 *

* * * * * *

* * SA 26:50 * * * *

* * * * * *

** 8 * * 10 **

*******************************************************

Navamsha

*******************************************************

** 8 * * 6 **

*9 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * RA * *

* * * * * *

* * 7 AS * 5 *

* * * * * *

** MO * * **

*10 JU * 4 *

** VE * * **

*11* * * * *

* * * * * *

*ME * 1 SU * 3 *

* * * * * *

* MA * * * *

* * SA * * * *

* * KE * * * *

* * * * * *

** 12 * * 2 **

*******************************************************

Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

========================

Me/Mo 31.5.1958

Me/Ma 31.10.1959

Me/Ra 27.10.1960

Me/Ju 16.5.1963

Me/Sa 21.8.1965

Ke/Ke 30.4.1968

Ke/Ve 26.9.1968

Ke/Su 27.11.1969

Ke/Mo 3.4.1970

Ke/Ma 2.11.1970

Ke/Ra 1.4.1971

Ke/Ju 18.4.1972

Ke/Sa 25.3.1973

Ke/Me 4.5.1974

Ve/Ve 1.5.1975

Ve/Su 31.8.1978

Ve/Mo 31.8.1979

Ve/Ma 1.5.1981

Ve/Ra 1.7.1982

Ve/Ju 30.6.1985

Ve/Sa 29.2.1988

Ve/Me 1.5.1991

Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

Su/Su 1.5.1995

Su/Mo 19.8.1995

Su/Ma 17.2.1996

Su/Ra 24.6.1996

Su/Ju 19.5.1997

Su/Sa 7.3.1998

Su/Me 17.2.1999

Su/Ke 24.12.1999

Su/Ve 30.4.2000

Mo/Mo 1.5.2001

Mo/Ma 1.3.2002

Mo/Ra 30.9.2002

Mo/Ju 31.3.2004

Mo/Sa 31.7.2005

Mo/Me 1.3.2007

Mo/Ke 31.7.2008

Mo/Ve 1.3.2009

Mo/Su 30.10.2010

Ma/Ma 1.5.2011

Ma/Ra 27.9.2011

Ma/Ju 15.10.2012

Ma/Sa 21.9.2013

Ma/Me 30.10.2014

Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

Ma/Ve 25.3.2016

Ma/Su 25.5.2017

Ma/Mo 30.9.2017

Ra/Ra 1.5.2018

Ra/Ju 11.1.2021

Ra/Sa 7.6.2023

Ra/Me 12.4.2026

Ra/Ke 30.10.2028

Ra/Ve 17.11.2029

Ra/Su 17.11.2032

Ra/Mo 12.10.2033

Ra/Ma 13.4.2035

Ju/Ju 30.4.2036

Ju/Sa 18.6.2038

Ju/Me 30.12.2040

Ju/Ke 7.4.2043

Ju/Ve 13.3.2044

Ju/Su 12.11.2046

Ju/Mo 31.8.2047

Ju/Ma 30.12.2048

Ju/Ra 6.12.2049

Sa/Sa 30.4.2052

Sa/Me 4.5.2055

Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

Sa/Ve 20.2.2059

Sa/Su 22.4.2062

Sa/Mo 4.4.2063

Sa/Ma 2.11.2064

Sa/Ra 12.12.2065

Sa/Ju 18.10.2068

Jo Cohen <cohen.joSAMVA Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PMRe: France chartHello dear The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was 22H00.For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in the early degrees.Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were known and published only the 4th october1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, "the outcome of thisreferendum was not a surprise". The referendum was not a real issueaccording to these same comments.From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to itsmaterialisation, the turning point was the 4th september

1958 when De Gaullepresented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way inParis, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video documentrelating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the link).With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant and a very strong Sun in the tenthhouse.I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.Best WishesJo Cohenlink :http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice & from=themes & code=C0821788768 & num_notice=1 & total_notices=19You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative video- "SIHA" <vkchoudhry<SAMVA >Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PMRe: France chart>> Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,>> I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the chart. I> will wait for the results of your further research/info.>> Best wishes.>> >>>> - > "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo> <SAMVA >> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM> Re: France chart>>>>

Hello dear >>>> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.>> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn ascendant.>> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness of the Sun>> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction of Rahu>> on>> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth Republic>> started,>> the head of state and the government were always very strong while>> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to say that>> the>> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This statement>> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.>>>> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00 everywhere and>> 20H00>> for Paris.>> I will check about the

closing times for 1958.>>>> Best Wishes>>>> Jo Cohen>>>> - >> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry>> <SAMVA >>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM>> Re: France chart>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958, as the day>>> and>>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the referendum>>> can>>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then various>>> important>>> incidents can be seen for

ascertaining the feasibility. If we take this>>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are shown in>>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - >>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo>>> <SAMVA >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>> Here are the data I gathered on this

topic.>>>>>>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade before,>>>> placed>>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the nation>>>> to>>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional system.>>>>>>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the parliament to>>>> choose>>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the Fourth>>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a>>>> constitutional>>>> convention.>>>>>>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his>>>> intention>>>> to>>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote for it

(or>>>> against) through a referendum.>>>>>>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before coming back>>>> the>>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime Minister under>>>> the>>>> IVth Republic.>>>>>>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go for this new>>>> constitution.>>>>>>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.>>>>>>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on the 4th>>>> september>>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.>>>>>>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was favorable.>>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of

october.>>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry>>>> <SAMVA >>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original

Message ----- >>>>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the referendum.>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the referendom>>>>>>> may>>>>>>> be>>>>>>> interesting to look into.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V K

Choudhry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held on 28th>>>>>>>> september>>>>>>>> 1958. French

people were asked if they were favorable or not for>>>>>>>> this>>>>>>>> new>>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first time to>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came after a long>>>>>>>> period>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to bring>>>>>>>> political>>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The General de>>>>>>>> Gaulle>>>>>>>> was>>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered YES>>>>>>>> massively>>>>>>>>

(80%)>>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in the>>>>>>>> Journal>>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the first>>>>>>>> president>>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>>> Cc: "John TWB" <jtwbjakarta>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is>>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the>>>>>>>> publication>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October 1958,

in>>>>>>>> Paris.>>>>>>>> It>>>>>>>> is>>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic came into>>>>>>>> effect>>>>>>>> at>>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and time for the>>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and publication of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be the>>>>>>>> better>>>>>>>> representative between these two

charts.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>> SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The french western astrologers

generally use the birth of the>>>>>>>> fifth>>>>>>>> republic>>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of this>>>>>>>> unique>>>>>>>> event,>>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see attached jtl>>>>>>>> files).>>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.>>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.>>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.>>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it takes a>>>>>>>> very>>>>>>>> long>>>>>>>> time

to reach the goal.>>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart for>>>>>>>> France.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> "Cosmologer" <cosmologer>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM>>>>>>>> Re: France

chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the founding of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> 5th>>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been established>>>>>>>> yet>>>>>>>> as>>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps French>>>>>>>> list>>>>>>>> members,>>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best

wishes,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro>>>>>>>> SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM>>>>>>>> France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by SA>>>>>>>>

astrologers>>>>>>>> ?>>>>>>>> Thank you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bests regards,>>>>>>>> Jolastro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

September 25, 2008

Dear Thor

Thank you for bringing these points to our attention.

A long rectification work is needed.

Maybe we can wait until our dear validates this Gemini

chart to start the work.

Best Wishes

Jo

-

" Cosmologer " <cosmologer

Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM

A very promising chart for France

Dear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,

A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this event is the

affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to 9th lord

SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house of

conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of French labour

movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for ordinary

people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules communication. Indeed,

most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.

A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the transit and

period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrest

The long transport strike in December 1995

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_strikes_in_France

transit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the 3rd house

MEP and natal KETU.

(GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In total, these

attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of the

extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with the

assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic Salvation

Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian Civil War

On July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame

station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight were

killed and 80 wounded.

On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On August 26,

a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail line near

Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris, wounding 4.

On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.

A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through fingerprints

left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members of the

French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near Lyon.

Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in station

Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a gas bottle

exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame stations of

RER Line C, wounding 29.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Metro_bombing

May 1968 riots

On Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive Gauche. When

the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the crowd again

threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the morning

after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which produced

hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the following day.

The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the aftermath was

shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that the police

had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by burning cars

and throwing molotov cocktails

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968

-Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct natal KETU

and aspecting natal SATURN

This chart looks like it has some real potential.

I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and for

discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to explain

a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for France. Good

timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain of events.

You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!

This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!

Best wishes,

Thor

France 5th Republic ref

Sep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BST

Paris Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50

Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SU

Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

================================================

Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira Ma

Sun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta Mo

Moon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika Su

Merc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni Su

Jupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati Ra

Ven 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni Su

Sat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha Me

Rahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma

Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati Me

True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beats

Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AM

Tithi: Krishna Pratipada

Yoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

Dagha Rashis: Lib Cap

Sytems Approach Analysis

========================

Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Moon Good Placement, Bright,

Mars Bad Placement,

Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,

Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,

Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,

Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,

Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Ketu Good Placement,

Rashi Chart

*******************************************************

** 4 * * 2 **

*5 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * MA 08:18* *

* * * * * *

* * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 *

* * * * * *

* * VE 00:42 * * * *

** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

*6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *

** RA 28:58 * * **

*7 * * * * *

* * * * * *

*JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 *

* * * * * *

* * SA 26:50 * * * *

* * * * * *

** 8 * * 10 **

*******************************************************

Navamsha

*******************************************************

** 8 * * 6 **

*9 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * RA * *

* * * * * *

* * 7 AS * 5 *

* * * * * *

** MO * * **

*10 JU * 4 *

** VE * * **

*11* * * * *

* * * * * *

*ME * 1 SU * 3 *

* * * * * *

* MA * * * *

* * SA * * * *

* * KE * * * *

* * * * * *

** 12 * * 2 **

*******************************************************

Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

========================

Me/Mo 31.5.1958

Me/Ma 31.10.1959

Me/Ra 27.10.1960

Me/Ju 16.5.1963

Me/Sa 21.8.1965

Ke/Ke 30.4.1968

Ke/Ve 26.9.1968

Ke/Su 27.11.1969

Ke/Mo 3.4.1970

Ke/Ma 2.11.1970

Ke/Ra 1.4.1971

Ke/Ju 18.4.1972

Ke/Sa 25.3.1973

Ke/Me 4.5.1974

Ve/Ve 1.5.1975

Ve/Su 31.8.1978

Ve/Mo 31.8.1979

Ve/Ma 1.5.1981

Ve/Ra 1.7.1982

Ve/Ju 30.6.1985

Ve/Sa 29.2.1988

Ve/Me 1.5.1991

Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

Su/Su 1.5.1995

Su/Mo 19.8.1995

Su/Ma 17.2.1996

Su/Ra 24.6.1996

Su/Ju 19.5.1997

Su/Sa 7.3.1998

Su/Me 17.2.1999

Su/Ke 24.12.1999

Su/Ve 30.4.2000

Mo/Mo 1.5.2001

Mo/Ma 1.3.2002

Mo/Ra 30.9.2002

Mo/Ju 31.3.2004

Mo/Sa 31.7.2005

Mo/Me 1.3.2007

Mo/Ke 31.7.2008

Mo/Ve 1.3.2009

Mo/Su 30.10.2010

Ma/Ma 1.5.2011

Ma/Ra 27.9.2011

Ma/Ju 15.10.2012

Ma/Sa 21.9.2013

Ma/Me 30.10.2014

Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

Ma/Ve 25.3.2016

Ma/Su 25.5.2017

Ma/Mo 30.9.2017

Ra/Ra 1.5.2018

Ra/Ju 11.1.2021

Ra/Sa 7.6.2023

Ra/Me 12.4.2026

Ra/Ke 30.10.2028

Ra/Ve 17.11.2029

Ra/Su 17.11.2032

Ra/Mo 12.10.2033

Ra/Ma 13.4.2035

Ju/Ju 30.4.2036

Ju/Sa 18.6.2038

Ju/Me 30.12.2040

Ju/Ke 7.4.2043

Ju/Ve 13.3.2044

Ju/Su 12.11.2046

Ju/Mo 31.8.2047

Ju/Ma 30.12.2048

Ju/Ra 6.12.2049

Sa/Sa 30.4.2052

Sa/Me 4.5.2055

Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

Sa/Ve 20.2.2059

Sa/Su 22.4.2062

Sa/Mo 4.4.2063

Sa/Ma 2.11.2064

Sa/Ra 12.12.2065

Sa/Ju 18.10.2068

Jo Cohen <cohen.jo

SAMVA

Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PM

Re: France chart

Hello dear

The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was 22H00.

For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.

If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in the early

degrees.

Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were known and

published only the 4th october

1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, " the outcome of

this

referendum was not a surprise " . The referendum was not a real issue

according to these same comments.

From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

materialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958 when De Gaulle

presented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way in

Paris, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video document

relating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the link).

With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant and a very

strong Sun in the tenth

house.

I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.

Best Wishes

Jo Cohen

link :

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice & from=themes & code=C082178\

8768 & num_notice=1 & total_notices=19

You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative video

-

" SIHA " <vkchoudhry

Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PM

Re: France chart

>

> Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,

>

> I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the chart. I

> will wait for the results of your further research/info.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> -

> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

> <SAMVA >

> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM

> Re: France chart

>

>> Hello dear

>>

>> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.

>> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn ascendant.

>> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness of the Sun

>> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction of Rahu

>> on

>> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth Republic

>> started,

>> the head of state and the government were always very strong while

>> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to say that

>> the

>> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This statement

>> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.

>>

>> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00 everywhere and

>> 20H00

>> for Paris.

>> I will check about the closing times for 1958.

>>

>> Best Wishes

>>

>> Jo Cohen

>>

>> -

>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

>> <SAMVA >

>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM

>> Re: France chart

>>

>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,

>>>

>>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958, as the day

>>> and

>>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the referendum

>>> can

>>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then various

>>> important

>>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If we take this

>>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are shown in

>>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.

>>>

>>> Best wishes.

>>>

>>> -

>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>> <SAMVA >

>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM

>>> Re: France chart

>>>

>>>> Hello dear

>>>>

>>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.

>>>>

>>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade before,

>>>> placed

>>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the nation

>>>> to

>>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional system.

>>>>

>>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the parliament to

>>>> choose

>>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the Fourth

>>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a

>>>> constitutional

>>>> convention.

>>>>

>>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his

>>>> intention

>>>> to

>>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote for it (or

>>>> against) through a referendum.

>>>>

>>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before coming back

>>>> the

>>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime Minister under

>>>> the

>>>> IVth Republic.

>>>>

>>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go for this new

>>>> constitution.

>>>>

>>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.

>>>>

>>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on the 4th

>>>> september

>>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.

>>>>

>>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was favorable.

>>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.

>>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.

>>>>

>>>> Best Wishes

>>>>

>>>> Jo Cohen

>>>>

>>>> -

>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM

>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>

>>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.

>>>>>

>>>>> Best wishes.

>>>>>

>>>>> -

>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM

>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>

>>>>>> Hello dear

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the referendum.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Best Wishes

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Jo Cohen

>>>>>>

>>>>>> -

>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM

>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the referendom

>>>>>>> may

>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>> interesting to look into.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Best wishes.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM

>>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello dear

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held on 28th

>>>>>>>> september

>>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable or not for

>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>> new

>>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first time to

>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came after a long

>>>>>>>> period

>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to bring

>>>>>>>> political

>>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The General de

>>>>>>>> Gaulle

>>>>>>>> was

>>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered YES

>>>>>>>> massively

>>>>>>>> (80%)

>>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in the

>>>>>>>> Journal

>>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the first

>>>>>>>> president

>>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Best Wishes

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>>>> Cc: " John TWB " <jtwbjakarta

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

>>>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is

>>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the

>>>>>>>> publication

>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October 1958, in

>>>>>>>> Paris.

>>>>>>>> It

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic came into

>>>>>>>> effect

>>>>>>>> at

>>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and time for the

>>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and publication of

>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be the

>>>>>>>> better

>>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Best wishes.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

>>>>>>>> SAMVA

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM

>>>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth of the

>>>>>>>> fifth

>>>>>>>> republic

>>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of this

>>>>>>>> unique

>>>>>>>> event,

>>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see attached jtl

>>>>>>>> files).

>>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.

>>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.

>>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.

>>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it takes a

>>>>>>>> very

>>>>>>>> long

>>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.

>>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart for

>>>>>>>> France.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Best Wishes

>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>>> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM

>>>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the founding of

>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>> 5th

>>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been established

>>>>>>>> yet

>>>>>>>> as

>>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps French

>>>>>>>> list

>>>>>>>> members,

>>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Best wishes,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Thor

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro

>>>>>>>> SAMVA

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM

>>>>>>>> France chart

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by SA

>>>>>>>> astrologers

>>>>>>>> ?

>>>>>>>> Thank you.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bests regards,

>>>>>>>> Jolastro

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ---

>>>>>>>>

September 26, 2008

Hello my dear Jo and Thor, Referendum is an important seal by the public in accepting the proposal of De Gaulle to change the constitution to itsmaterialisation. This chart merits consideration for verifying the past events and validating it with the help of predictions. The contribution to the status of the head of the state in this case is represented by the strong Moon sitting in the tenth house.

Best wishes.

-

Jo Cohen

SAMVA

Friday, September 26, 2008 2:13 AM

Re: A very promising chart for France

Dear ThorThank you for bringing these points to our attention.A long rectification work is needed.Maybe we can wait until our dear validates this Gemini chart to start the work.Best WishesJo- "Cosmologer" <cosmologer ><SAMVA >Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM A very promising chart for FranceDear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this event is the affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to 9th lord SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house of conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of French labour movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for ordinary people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules communication. Indeed, most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the transit and period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrestThe long transport strike in December 1995http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_strikes_in_Francetransit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the 3rd house MEP and natal KETU.Related:The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed Islamic Group (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In total, these attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of the extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with the assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian Civil WarOn July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight were killed and 80 wounded.On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On August 26, a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail line near Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris, wounding 4. On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through fingerprints left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members of the French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near Lyon.Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in station Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a gas bottle exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame stations of RER Line C, wounding 29.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Metro_bombingMay 1968 riotsOn Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive Gauche. When the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the crowd again threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the morning after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which produced hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the following day. The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the aftermath was shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that the police had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by burning cars and throwing molotov cocktailshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968-Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct natal KETU and aspecting natal SATURNThis chart looks like it has some real potential.I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and for discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to explain a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for France. Good timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain of events. You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!Best wishes,ThorFrance 5th Republic refSep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BSTParis Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SUPlanet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord================================================Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira MaSun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta MoMoon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati MeMars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika SuMerc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni SuJupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati RaVen 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni SuSat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha MeRahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra MaKetu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati MeTrue Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beatsDay: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AMTithi: Krishna PratipadaYoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: JuDagha Rashis: Lib CapSytems Approach Analysis========================Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,Moon Good Placement, Bright,Mars Bad Placement,Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,Ketu Good Placement,Rashi Chart********************************************************* 4 * * 2 ***5 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * MA 08:18* ** * * * * ** * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * VE 00:42 * * * *** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 ***6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *** RA 28:58 * * ***7 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * **JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * SA 26:50 * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * *** 8 * * 10 *********************************************************Navamsha********************************************************* 8 * * 6 ***9 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * RA * ** * * * * ** * 7 AS * 5 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * *** MO * * ***10 JU * 4 *** VE * * ***11* * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * **ME * 1 SU * 3 ** * * * * ** MA * * * ** * SA * * * ** * KE * * * ** * * * * *** 12 * * 2 *********************************************************Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis========================Me/Mo 31.5.1958Me/Ma 31.10.1959Me/Ra 27.10.1960Me/Ju 16.5.1963Me/Sa 21.8.1965Ke/Ke 30.4.1968Ke/Ve 26.9.1968Ke/Su 27.11.1969Ke/Mo 3.4.1970Ke/Ma 2.11.1970Ke/Ra 1.4.1971Ke/Ju 18.4.1972Ke/Sa 25.3.1973Ke/Me 4.5.1974Ve/Ve 1.5.1975Ve/Su 31.8.1978Ve/Mo 31.8.1979Ve/Ma 1.5.1981Ve/Ra 1.7.1982Ve/Ju 30.6.1985Ve/Sa 29.2.1988Ve/Me 1.5.1991Ve/Ke 1.3.1994Su/Su 1.5.1995Su/Mo 19.8.1995Su/Ma 17.2.1996Su/Ra 24.6.1996Su/Ju 19.5.1997Su/Sa 7.3.1998Su/Me 17.2.1999Su/Ke 24.12.1999Su/Ve 30.4.2000Mo/Mo 1.5.2001Mo/Ma 1.3.2002Mo/Ra 30.9.2002Mo/Ju 31.3.2004Mo/Sa 31.7.2005Mo/Me 1.3.2007Mo/Ke 31.7.2008Mo/Ve 1.3.2009Mo/Su 30.10.2010Ma/Ma 1.5.2011Ma/Ra 27.9.2011Ma/Ju 15.10.2012Ma/Sa 21.9.2013Ma/Me 30.10.2014Ma/Ke 28.10.2015Ma/Ve 25.3.2016Ma/Su 25.5.2017Ma/Mo 30.9.2017Ra/Ra 1.5.2018Ra/Ju 11.1.2021Ra/Sa 7.6.2023Ra/Me 12.4.2026Ra/Ke 30.10.2028Ra/Ve 17.11.2029Ra/Su 17.11.2032Ra/Mo 12.10.2033Ra/Ma 13.4.2035Ju/Ju 30.4.2036Ju/Sa 18.6.2038Ju/Me 30.12.2040Ju/Ke 7.4.2043Ju/Ve 13.3.2044Ju/Su 12.11.2046Ju/Mo 31.8.2047Ju/Ma 30.12.2048Ju/Ra 6.12.2049Sa/Sa 30.4.2052Sa/Me 4.5.2055Sa/Ke 11.1.2058Sa/Ve 20.2.2059Sa/Su 22.4.2062Sa/Mo 4.4.2063Sa/Ma 2.11.2064Sa/Ra 12.12.2065Sa/Ju 18.10.2068Jo Cohen <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>SAMVA Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PMRe: France chartHello dear The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was 22H00.For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in the earlydegrees.Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were known andpublished only the 4th october1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, "the outcome ofthisreferendum was not a surprise". The referendum was not a real issueaccording to these same comments.From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to itsmaterialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958 when De Gaullepresented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way inParis, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video documentrelating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the link).With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant and a verystrong Sun in the tenthhouse.I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.Best WishesJo Cohenlink :http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice & from=themes & code=C0821788768 & num_notice=1 & total_notices=19You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative video- "SIHA" <vkchoudhry ><SAMVA >Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PMRe: France chart>> Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,>> I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the chart. I> will wait for the results of your further research/info.>> Best wishes.>> >>>> - > "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>> <SAMVA >> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM> Re: France chart>>>> Hello dear >>>> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.>> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn ascendant.>> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness of the Sun>> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction of Rahu>> on>> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth Republic>> started,>> the head of state and the government were always very strong while>> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to say that>> the>> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This statement>> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.>>>> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00 everywhere and>> 20H00>> for Paris.>> I will check about the closing times for 1958.>>>> Best Wishes>>>> Jo Cohen>>>> - >> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry >>> <SAMVA >>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM>> Re: France chart>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958, as the day>>> and>>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the referendum>>> can>>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then various>>> important>>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If we take this>>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are shown in>>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - >>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>>>> <SAMVA >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.>>>>>>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade before,>>>> placed>>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the nation>>>> to>>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional system.>>>>>>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the parliament to>>>> choose>>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the Fourth>>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a>>>> constitutional>>>> convention.>>>>>>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his>>>> intention>>>> to>>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote for it (or>>>> against) through a referendum.>>>>>>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before coming back>>>> the>>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime Minister under>>>> the>>>> IVth Republic.>>>>>>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go for this new>>>> constitution.>>>>>>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.>>>>>>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on the 4th>>>> september>>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.>>>>>>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was favorable.>>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.>>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry >>>>> <SAMVA >>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - >>>>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the referendum.>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry >>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the referendom>>>>>>> may>>>>>>> be>>>>>>> interesting to look into.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>> "Jo Cohen" <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held on 28th>>>>>>>> september>>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable or not for>>>>>>>> this>>>>>>>> new>>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first time to>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came after a long>>>>>>>> period>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to bring>>>>>>>> political>>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The General de>>>>>>>> Gaulle>>>>>>>> was>>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered YES>>>>>>>> massively>>>>>>>> (80%)>>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in the>>>>>>>> Journal>>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the first>>>>>>>> president>>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> "SIHA" <vkchoudhry >>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>>> Cc: "John TWB" <jtwbjakarta (AT) (DOT) co.uk>>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is>>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the>>>>>>>> publication>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October 1958, in>>>>>>>> Paris.>>>>>>>> It>>>>>>>> is>>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic came into>>>>>>>> effect>>>>>>>> at>>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and time for the>>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and publication of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be the>>>>>>>> better>>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>> SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth of the>>>>>>>> fifth>>>>>>>> republic>>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of this>>>>>>>> unique>>>>>>>> event,>>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see attached jtl>>>>>>>> files).>>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.>>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.>>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.>>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it takes a>>>>>>>> very>>>>>>>> long>>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.>>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart for>>>>>>>> France.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> "Cosmologer" <cosmologer >>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the founding of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> 5th>>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been established>>>>>>>> yet>>>>>>>> as>>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps French>>>>>>>> list>>>>>>>> members,>>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro (AT) ymail (DOT) com>>>>>>>>> SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM>>>>>>>> France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by SA>>>>>>>> astrologers>>>>>>>> ?>>>>>>>> Thank you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bests regards,>>>>>>>> Jolastro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

September 26, 2008

FRANCE : FIFTH REPUBLIC : HOROSCOPE, MUNDANE CHART: astrology and birth chart

Map of the Heavens, Planets, Astrological Chart, Horoscope of FRANCE : FIFTH REPUBLIC : HOROSCOPE, MUNDANE CHART,event: September 28, 1958 at 10:00 PM in Paris (France)

Sun in 5Â°13 Libra, AS in 24Â°30 Gemini,Moon in 15Â°46 Aries, MC in 22Â°06 Aquarius

Chinese Astrology: de Terre Dog

http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/C7z58xcM4WLW.htm

Dear Friends,

Hope it helps.

Best wishes,

2008/9/25 SIHA <vkchoudhry

Hello my dear Jo and Thor, Referendum is an important seal by the public in accepting the proposal of De Gaulle to change the constitution to itsmaterialisation. This chart merits consideration for verifying the past events and validating it with the help of predictions. The contribution to the status of the head of the state in this case is represented by the strong Moon sitting in the tenth house.

Best wishes.

-

Jo Cohen

SAMVA

Friday, September 26, 2008 2:13 AM

Re: A very promising chart for France

Dear ThorThank you for bringing these points to our attention.A long rectification work is needed.Maybe we can wait until our dear validates this Gemini chart to start the work.

Best WishesJo- " Cosmologer " <cosmologer<SAMVA >

Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM A very promising chart for FranceDear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,A notable affliction in the 1Â° Gemini rising chart for this event is the

affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to 9th lord SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house of conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of French labour

movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for ordinary people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules communication. Indeed, most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the transit and

period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrestThe long transport strike in December 1995http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_strikes_in_France

transit KETU at 1Â° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the 3rd house MEP and natal KETU.Related:The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed Islamic Group (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In total, these

attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of the extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with the assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic Salvation

Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian Civil WarOn July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight were

killed and 80 wounded.On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On August 26, a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail line near Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris, wounding 4.

On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through fingerprints left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members of the

French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near Lyon.Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in station Maison Blanche of the Paris MÃ©tro, wounding 13. On October 17, a gas bottle

exploded between the MusÃ©e d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame stations of RER Line C, wounding 29.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Metro_bombing

May 1968 riotsOn Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive Gauche. When the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the crowd again threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the morning

after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which produced hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the following day. The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the aftermath was

shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that the police had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by burning cars and throwing molotov cocktailshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968

-Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct natal KETU and aspecting natal SATURNThis chart looks like it has some real potential.I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and for

discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to explain a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for France. Good timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain of events.

You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!Best wishes,ThorFrance 5th Republic refSep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BSTParis Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50

Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SUPlanet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord================================================Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira MaSun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta MoMoon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika SuMerc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni SuJupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati RaVen 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni SuSat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha MeRahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma

Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati MeTrue Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beatsDay: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AMTithi: Krishna PratipadaYoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: JuDagha Rashis: Lib Cap

Sytems Approach Analysis========================Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,Moon Good Placement, Bright,Mars Bad Placement,Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,

Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,Ketu Good Placement,Rashi Chart*******************************************************

** 4 * * 2 ***5 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * MA 08:18* ** * * * * ** * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * VE 00:42 * * * *** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

*6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *** RA 28:58 * * ***7 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * **JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * SA 26:50 * * * ** * * * * *

* * * * * *** 8 * * 10 *********************************************************Navamsha********************************************************* 8 * * 6 ***9 * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * *

* * * RA * ** * * * * ** * 7 AS * 5 ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * *** MO * * ***10 JU * 4 *** VE * * ***11* * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * * *

* * * * * **ME * 1 SU * 3 ** * * * * ** MA * * * ** * SA * * * ** * KE * * * ** * * * * *** 12 * * 2 *********************************************************Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

========================Me/Mo 31.5.1958Me/Ma 31.10.1959Me/Ra 27.10.1960Me/Ju 16.5.1963Me/Sa 21.8.1965Ke/Ke 30.4.1968Ke/Ve 26.9.1968Ke/Su 27.11.1969Ke/Mo 3.4.1970Ke/Ma 2.11.1970Ke/Ra 1.4.1971

Ke/Ju 18.4.1972Ke/Sa 25.3.1973Ke/Me 4.5.1974Ve/Ve 1.5.1975Ve/Su 31.8.1978Ve/Mo 31.8.1979Ve/Ma 1.5.1981Ve/Ra 1.7.1982Ve/Ju 30.6.1985Ve/Sa 29.2.1988Ve/Me 1.5.1991Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

Su/Su 1.5.1995Su/Mo 19.8.1995Su/Ma 17.2.1996Su/Ra 24.6.1996Su/Ju 19.5.1997Su/Sa 7.3.1998Su/Me 17.2.1999Su/Ke 24.12.1999Su/Ve 30.4.2000Mo/Mo 1.5.2001Mo/Ma 1.3.2002Mo/Ra 30.9.2002

Mo/Ju 31.3.2004Mo/Sa 31.7.2005Mo/Me 1.3.2007Mo/Ke 31.7.2008Mo/Ve 1.3.2009Mo/Su 30.10.2010Ma/Ma 1.5.2011Ma/Ra 27.9.2011Ma/Ju 15.10.2012Ma/Sa 21.9.2013Ma/Me 30.10.2014Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

Ma/Ve 25.3.2016Ma/Su 25.5.2017Ma/Mo 30.9.2017Ra/Ra 1.5.2018Ra/Ju 11.1.2021Ra/Sa 7.6.2023Ra/Me 12.4.2026Ra/Ke 30.10.2028Ra/Ve 17.11.2029Ra/Su 17.11.2032Ra/Mo 12.10.2033Ra/Ma 13.4.2035

Ju/Ju 30.4.2036Ju/Sa 18.6.2038Ju/Me 30.12.2040Ju/Ke 7.4.2043Ju/Ve 13.3.2044Ju/Su 12.11.2046Ju/Mo 31.8.2047Ju/Ma 30.12.2048Ju/Ra 6.12.2049Sa/Sa 30.4.2052Sa/Me 4.5.2055Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

Sa/Ve 20.2.2059Sa/Su 22.4.2062Sa/Mo 4.4.2063Sa/Ma 2.11.2064Sa/Ra 12.12.2065Sa/Ju 18.10.2068Jo Cohen <cohen.jo

SAMVA Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PMRe: France chartHello dear The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was 22H00.

For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in the earlydegrees.Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were known and

published only the 4th october1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, " the outcome ofthisreferendum was not a surprise " . The referendum was not a real issueaccording to these same comments.

From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to itsmaterialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958 when De Gaullepresented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way in

Paris, Place de la RÃ©publique, between 14H and 15H. The video documentrelating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the link).With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant and a very

strong Sun in the tenthhouse.I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.Best WishesJo Cohenlink :http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice & from=themes & code=C0821788768 & num_notice=1 & total_notices=19

You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative video- " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

<SAMVA >Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PMRe: France chart>> Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,

>> I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the chart. I> will wait for the results of your further research/info.>> Best wishes.>> >>

>> - > " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo> <SAMVA >

> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM> Re: France chart>>>> Hello dear >>>> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.

>> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25Â°21 Capricorn ascendant.>> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness of the Sun>> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction of Rahu

>> on>> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth Republic>> started,>> the head of state and the government were always very strong while>> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to say that

>> the>> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This statement>> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.>>>> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00 everywhere and

>> 20H00>> for Paris.>> I will check about the closing times for 1958.>>>> Best Wishes>>>> Jo Cohen>>>> -

>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry>> <SAMVA >

>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM>> Re: France chart>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958, as the day

>>> and>>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the referendum>>> can>>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then various>>> important

>>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If we take this>>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are shown in>>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.

>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - >>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>> <SAMVA >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM>>> Re: France chart>>>

>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.>>>>>>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade before,

>>>> placed>>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the nation>>>> to>>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional system.

>>>>>>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the parliament to>>>> choose>>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the Fourth

>>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a>>>> constitutional>>>> convention.>>>>>>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his

>>>> intention>>>> to>>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote for it (or>>>> against) through a referendum.>>>>>>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before coming back

>>>> the>>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime Minister under>>>> the>>>> IVth Republic.>>>>>>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go for this new

>>>> constitution.>>>>>>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.>>>>>>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on the 4th

>>>> september>>>> 1958, Place de la RÃ©publique, afternoon time.>>>>>>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was favorable.>>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.

>>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>> - >>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.>>>>>

>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - >>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the referendum.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry

>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the referendom

>>>>>>> may>>>>>>> be>>>>>>> interesting to look into.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo

>>>>>>> <SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM>>>>>>> Re: France chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held on 28th

>>>>>>>> september>>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable or not for>>>>>>>> this>>>>>>>> new

>>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first time to>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came after a long

>>>>>>>> period>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to bring>>>>>>>> political

>>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The General de>>>>>>>> Gaulle>>>>>>>> was>>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered YES

>>>>>>>> massively>>>>>>>> (80%)>>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in the>>>>>>>> Journal

>>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the first>>>>>>>> president>>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>>>> Cc: " John TWB " <jtwbjakarta>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is>>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the>>>>>>>> publication

>>>>>>>> of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October 1958, in>>>>>>>> Paris.

>>>>>>>> It>>>>>>>> is>>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic came into>>>>>>>> effect

>>>>>>>> at>>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and time for the

>>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and publication of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be the>>>>>>>> better>>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Best wishes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>> SAMVA

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth of the>>>>>>>> fifth

>>>>>>>> republic>>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of this>>>>>>>> unique>>>>>>>> event,

>>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see attached jtl>>>>>>>> files).>>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.

>>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.>>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.>>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it takes a

>>>>>>>> very>>>>>>>> long>>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.>>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart for

>>>>>>>> France.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Wishes>>>>>>>> Jo Cohen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -

>>>>>>>> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

>>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM>>>>>>>> Re: France chart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the founding of>>>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> 5th>>>>>>>> Republic, but I donÂ´t think one in particular has been established

>>>>>>>> yet>>>>>>>> as>>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps French>>>>>>>> list>>>>>>>> members,

>>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro

>>>>>>>> SAMVA >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM>>>>>>>> France chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by SA

>>>>>>>> astrologers>>>>>>>> ?>>>>>>>> Thank you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bests regards,>>>>>>>> Jolastro

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

September 26, 2008

Dear Friends,

Another promising one:

FRENCH FIRST REPUBLIC : HOROSCOPE, MUNDANE CHART: astrology and birth chart

Map of the Heavens, Planets, Astrological Chart, Horoscope of FRENCH FIRST REPUBLIC : HOROSCOPE, MUNDANE CHART,event: September 22, 1792 at 9:18 AM in Paris (France)

Sun in 0Â°00 Libra, AS in 7Â°19 Scorpio,Moon in 14Â°26 Sagittarius, MC in 19Â°04 Leo

http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/4RyubbwpJTAa.htm

Best wishes,

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:38 AM, Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote: