first child birth

June 28, 2009

Thanks Dear Ramaniji for accepting my scientific view.

Dr. Rath

Ramani <kadavasalramani Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:56:30 AMRe: first child birth

Dear Dr.Luther Rath,

You have taken much pain to explain with map to show

how jupiter R happens to aspect Sun by his 5th aspect.

Mr. Ravinder Grover has cited naadi principle for this. Though late Sri K.S.K. has brought K.P. system based on Vedic system, he has not used any vedic priniciples

in K.P. Late hri M.P.Shanmugam in his Astro Srrets Vol.I has given different explanation for Retrograde planets.., but not dealt with aspect of R Planet. Hence

the doubt was raised by me. I accept your scientific explanation. Thanks.

regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:47 AM

Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]

Respected Sir, Please find my answer in the attachment.

Dr.Rath

Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PMRe: first child birth

Dear Dr.Rath,

I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.

Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage,

except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much

confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.

This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,

while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.

Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM

Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]

Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.

Dr. Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comWednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM first child birth

Dear Members,It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?Girl's details are as follows:DOB:8th July 1983TOB:22:23 hours ISTPOB:Madras IndiaYour response will be much appreciated.

June 28, 2009

Dear Subhashji,

Good evening. I am convinced in your analysis through 4 step theory. Still we are not able to link with VII house which is the prime house for marriage. I am little bit uncomfortable on this issue.

With regards.

Dr. Rath.

Subhash <subhash_ektare Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:20 PM Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step Theory"

is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself

:----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my answer in the

attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter

while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of

these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

June 28, 2009

Dear Dr. Rath,Welcome! DBAS running on the date of marriage as per my software were Jup-Jup-Jup-Mar-Rah.I agree that Jup does not link to VII in any way. But Mars and Rahu clearly link to VII.Both Mars and Rahu are in the sub of Mercury -- a self strong planet -- which in turnis in rapt conjunction with Sun. Thus DBAS links to house VII through Mars and Rahu. It is not necessary that Jup should link to house VII. House VII should be activated by any of the DBAS lords. I hope with this you should be comfortable.RegardsSubhash EktareLuther Rath <rathluther Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:09:53 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Subhashji,

Good evening. I am convinced in your analysis through 4 step theory. Still we are not able to link with VII house which is the prime house for marriage. I am little bit uncomfortable on this issue.

With regards.

Dr. Rath.

Subhash <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comWednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:20 PM Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step

Theory"

is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself

:----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my

answer in the

attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter

while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of

these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

June 29, 2009

Good Morning and thanks Dear Subhashji for your kind information.

Dr. Rath

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:16:42 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Dr. Rath,Welcome! DBAS running on the date of marriage as per my software were Jup-Jup-Jup- Mar-Rah.I agree that Jup does not link to VII in any way. But Mars and Rahu clearly link to VII.Both Mars and Rahu are in the sub of Mercury -- a self strong planet -- which in turnis in rapt conjunction with Sun. Thus DBAS links to house VII through Mars and Rahu. It is not necessary that Jup should link to house VII. House VII should be activated by any of the DBAS lords. I hope with this you should be comfortable.RegardsSubhash Ektare

Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comSunday, June 28, 2009 7:09:53 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Subhashji,

Good evening. I am convinced in your analysis through 4 step theory. Still we are not able to link with VII house which is the prime house for marriage. I am little bit uncomfortable on this issue.

With regards.

Dr. Rath.

Subhash <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comWednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:20 PM Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step Theory"

is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself

:----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my answer in

the attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini.

Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a

significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

June 30, 2009

Dear Dr. Rath

Jupiter is strongly connected not only with 7th but also with 2,5,11 being in star of cuspal sublord of all thease houses i.e Saturn.

My confusions are:

1 )Both Saturn & Jupiter connected with marriage - both of them slow moving planets - how they gave timely marriage?

2) How Saturn played its role then ? In the bridegrrom is much older?

3) Saturn itself doesn't support 7th house signification stronly..rather anti houses ... is married life happy??

4) Most probably marriage happend as lord of 7th Sun is the single strong significator of 7th in favourable positon on 5th cusp aspecting 11th cusp.

regards

Suprakash

-

Luther Rath

Monday, June 29, 2009 8:45 AM

Re: Re: first child birth

Good Morning and thanks Dear Subhashji for your kind information.

Dr. Rath

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:16:42 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Dr. Rath,Welcome! DBAS running on the date of marriage as per my software were Jup-Jup-Jup- Mar-Rah.I agree that Jup does not link to VII in any way. But Mars and Rahu clearly link to VII.Both Mars and Rahu are in the sub of Mercury -- a self strong planet -- which in turnis in rapt conjunction with Sun. Thus DBAS links to house VII through Mars and Rahu. It is not necessary that Jup should link to house VII. House VII should be activated by any of the DBAS lords. I hope with this you should be comfortable.RegardsSubhash Ektare

Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comSunday, June 28, 2009 7:09:53 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Subhashji,

Good evening. I am convinced in your analysis through 4 step theory. Still we are not able to link with VII house which is the prime house for marriage. I am little bit uncomfortable on this issue.

With regards.

Dr. Rath.

Subhash <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comWednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:20 PM Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step Theory" is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself :----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my answer in the attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

July 1, 2009

Dear Bala,

The following was my ananlysis.

Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

Jup MD: 2006-05-29 - 2022-05-30

Jup AD: 2006-05-29 - 2008-07-18

Jup PD: 2006-05-29 - 2006-09-13

Moon SD: 2006-08-13 - 2006-08-22

Significators : -

House II : Sun, Mercury and Jupiter. (Mercury is combust)

House VII : Lone Sun.

House XI : Sun, Mercury and Jupiter. (Mercury is combust)

Kethu represents Jupiter. Rahu represents Mercury and Mars.

Transits of planets on the date of marriage: -

Jupiter : Libra 18-09-28 Venus-Rahu-Moon.

Moon Cancer 11-24-31 Moon-Saturn-Moon

Sun : Leo 4-38-24 Sun-Kethu-Moon.

Study

1. Regarding marriage.

VII cusp sub lord, Saturn, does not signify II, V, VII or XI. Yes. So as such it is believed that it does not promise marriage. But it occupies VIII that is 2nd to spouse indicating addition of a family member to spouse. Secondly Saturn aspects XI, so, Saturn has domain over XI house maters. Could be these are the points that is in favor of marriage of the girl.

She married during Dasa, Bhukti and antra of Jupiter and sookshma of Moon on 21st August 2006. Thus Jupiter happens to be a very strong planet for her marriage. Jupiter is in the constellation of Saturn. And we have discussed role of Saturn in her marriage. It was in Moon sookshma since Jupiter aspects Moon by 7th aspect.

2. Regarding child birth.

V cusp sub lord is the same Saturn. Saturn does not signify V either. So, as such it appears it does not promise child birth. But as the issue of marriage, Saturn occupies VIII that is 2nd to spouse and aspects XI that is 5th to spouse. So, 2nd and 5th promise first child to the spouse.

The above are based on KP through weak significations of Jupiter, Moon and Saturn perhaps the weakest. How and from where Jupiter could get so much of strength to give marriage in own Bhukti and Antara? Is there any other factor left that made Jupiter so strong?

Jupiter does not signify in any way to give marriage. Moon also does not. How then they gave marriage?

VII is signifies by only Sun. VII is vacant, it is owned by Sun and no other planet occupies any of the constellations of Sun. Mercury conjoins Sun, and so Mercury is a significator of VII but not Jupiter or Moon. Hence Sun and/or Mercury ought to have given marriage along with Jupiter that is lord of II and XI. But Jupiter did not wait till their bhukti began ruling the period.

So, then, how Sun has conferred its power of rule over VII? One point we are missing is that Jupiter is in retrograde motion. The retrogression is apparent because of the relative positioning of Sun, Earth and Jupiter. We are never taking in to consideration the position of movement of Earth in astrology. They say that part is in-built. When Jupiter is retrograde it is in opposition to the Sun. We consider opposition means occupation of 7th house. In this chart they are not in 7th to each other. So, in such instances, should we consider Jupiter to be in opposition as long as it is in retrograde motion whether it is in the 6th, 7th or 8th signs? If we accept this then Sun confers all its power to Jupiter by its opposition aspect. And Jupiter in turn confers some power to

Moon to signify the houses signified by Jupiter. Thus Jupiter has portfolio of II and XI from its lordship, and the portfolio of VII conferred by Sun. In this manner only Jupiter can be all powerful to give marriage.

She in fact married on a Pushya star day and when Jupiter transited in Rahu constellation that is agent of mercury; and in Sun sub.

Sun transited in Leo in Constellation of Kethu an agent of Jupiter; and in Moon sub.

May be the query in mind was regarding child birth. She will be blessed with children.

Dr. Rath

Anand Bala <anandbala9 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:45:30 PMRe: first child birth

Hello Dr.Rath,

My apologies for this belated reply.

As you rightly pointed out, the horoscope is very challenging. I did advise the girl's mother in 2005 that the girl will get married in August 2006. Now both mother and the girl are worried about the child birth.

I have received some replies from members and tend to adjust the time of birth so that Jup will be the sub lord of both 7th & 5th cusps.Rather than looking at the ruling planets at the time of query I would like to rectify the time of birth based on an event where the girl last her grand father on 3rd September 2003.

Unfortunately, I could not receive your analysis of this girl. will appreciate if you could kindly forward your analysis.

My full name is Anand Bala but every one calls me Bala as it is my given name and Anand is my father's name.

best regards.

Bala

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote:

Dear Anandji,

I assume you are Anand by name. If wrong I am sorry.

Did you get any reply from any body to your message? If so kindly inform me.

The horoscope is definitely a challange for us. I have been swimming in it for quite some time.

I request plesse reply me.

With regards.

Dr. Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

@gro ups.comWednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM

first child birth

Dear Members,It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?Girl's details are as follows:DOB:8th July 1983TOB:22:23 hours ISTPOB:Madras IndiaYour response will be much appreciated.

July 2, 2009

Dear Subhashji,

Namasthe.

I fully agree with your concept. I also agree that D grade significators are not barred from giving results.

I do agree that "(1) there is no aspect between Sun.and Jupier. (2) just retrogression of Jupiter cannot be taken as aspect. (3) In view of my opinion as mentioned above I do not find any necessity to some how connect Jupiter to Sun through aspect or otherwise".

The issue has arrisen because of No.1 point. Sun is only significator of VII the prime bhava for marriage and in place of Sun Jupiter has given marriage. There is no doubt about it.

Now comming to point No. 3; there would be no necessity to connect Jupiter with Sun provided Jupiter signifies VII. Jupiter in no way signifies VII. Even if we consider the constellation lord of the sub lord of Jupiter I dont find any solution. Jupiter is in the sub of Venus and the constellation lord of Venus is Kethu. It may be noted that kethu is not a significator of VII. So Jupiter does not signify VII. Then should we accept that even if the DBAS do not signify VII while signifying 2 and 11 can be capable of giving marriage. I dont wish to stick to Sun. But I feel that any of the DBAS and more particularly DB should signify VII.

I apologise most humbly for presenting my opinion in this way. But I request you to clerify me.

Thanking you.

Dr. Rath

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:18:56 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Ramani ji,

â€œFour Step Theoryâ€ is developed by Shri Sunil Gondhalekar. He is not the developer of any software. The software I use (and also Shri Sunil ji uses) is Astro-Kundali developed by Dr. Karekar. The signification of Jupiter as given by this software is authentic as far as 4 step theory is concerned. This signification of Jupiter is not my own working, it is as per rules of 4 step theory.

I agree with you that Jupiterâ€™s first step shall be â€œNilâ€. Here little explanation is needed for the extract from the software. Houses shown in brackets are strongly signified and those not in brackets are weak significators. As per 4 step theory, only strong significators are empowered to give results. Weak significators, even though shown, are not empowered to give results. Thus they are equivalent to â€œNilâ€. That is the way of representation by the s/w developer Dr. Karekar.

In KP, planet is said to have self-strength when it is in its own star or if there are no planets in any of the stars owned by it. I fully agree with this. Another basic rule as per KP is that a planet gives result of the house occupied by its star lord (even if star lord do not have self-strength) and the house(s) owned by this star lord if unoccupied (even if star lord do not have self-strength) . Therefore in this case though Jupiter is not having self strength, it is empowered to give results of houses 9 (by occupation) 2 and 11 (owned by Jupiter and unoccupied) when it appears as a star lord. Here Jupiter is represented by self-strong Ketu at 4th step (star of sub Ven) and hence gets full strength for giving results of these houses. This is what my understanding about KP and â€œFour Step Theoryâ€ is. Shri. Gondhalekar ji

and other senior members may correct me if I am wrong.

Leaving aside this controversy, all members will agree that Jupiter is â€œD Gradeâ€ significator of houses 2 and 11 as an owner. Are â€œD Gradeâ€ significators barred from giving results ? As far as I know they are not barred. So what is the point in discussion about whether Jupiter is significator of houses of marriage i.e. 2, 7 and 11.

Dr. Rath has given nice and scientific explanation of his views. With due apologies to him I beg to differ with his views. Reasons are (1) there is no aspect between Sun and Jupiter (2) Just retrogression of Jupiter cannot be taken as aspect. (3) In view of my opinion as mentioned above I do not find any necessity to somehow connect Jupiter to Sun through aspect or otherwise.

I hope I have made my point clear.

Subhash Ektare

Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:50 PMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Subhashji,

Is it your own working of 4 steps method for Jupiter Planet or it is of Sri Sunil Gondhalekar' s SW of 4 steps extraction? My understanding of K.P.System is that

unless a Planet is with self strength i.e no other planet is in its stas, Jupiter's 1st step is ' nil'. In 4th step, it is

Ketu with self strength. As such Ketu will signify its own position of 10th and as he is in own star again 10th,

and his Rasi Lord's signification i.e. Jupiter. This should be Jupiter's position in 9th with his star lord Saturn's position of 8th, (1-12). Ketu's signification of his Rasi lord's own houses 2-11 will be shared by 2 other planets viz.Sun and Mercury who are in the star of Jupiter.

Kethu too will signify 2-11 as the houses are vacant. But the strength of three planets (Sun, Mer.,Ketu) are to be

seen with reference to their sub lord as to who is more

strong to give the result of 2-11. Merc. and Kethu only

emerge for 2-11, as Sun in the Satn sub. who is not signfr. of 2-11, is out of question. In any case Jupiter's own signfn. of 2-11 is very feeble. He is strong for 8,1-12 and 10th only He does not signify 2-11, though 8th is only a supporting house. Other important houses for marriage significators of 2,7,11 are missing. Kindly review

my above statement and offer your valuable comments.

My doubt was Dr.Luther Rath's statement of Jupiter R in aspect with Sun as both of them are in opposition. For

this Dr.Rath has furnished hi explanation very scientifically with maps. Kindly also let me have your

opinion about this, as I going by astrological way of aspect and not scientifically, to which my knowlege is poor. Kindly correct me if I am wrong.

With regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Subhash

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12 PM

Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step Theory"

is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself

:----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my answer in

the attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini.

Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a

significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

July 2, 2009

Dear Mr. Grover,

I am very happy to be pointed out that Jupiter aspects Sun by its 5th aspect. By then Jupiter may be able to confer its powers to Sun but not vice versa I suppose. It seems to me that Sun has to confer its power , the portfoleo of VII on Jupiter. How does it happen. Sorry for troubling you.

Kindly reply.

Regards.

Dr. Rath.

Ramani <kadavasalramani Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:18:42 AMRe: first child birth

Dear Mr.Grover,

The attachment of Dr.Luther is same which you have read

his analysis scientificlly.

Your explanation is clear & made me to understand how Jupiter R aspects Sun by his 5th aspect from Libra backward.

Thank you,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:44 AM

RE: first child birth

25 June 2009

Dear Shri Ramani ji

1. I have just read Dr Rathâ€™s analysis Retro Jupiterâ€™s aspect on Sun. He had explained scientifically.

2. In addition to what I have said earlier (please read below)

3. As per Naadi Astrology, when any planet is Retro, it is assumed in the previous house AS WELL. It means, the planet must be taken as occupying both houses, the one it is in and the one where it is Retro.

4. If we take Jup R in Libra as well then it would aspect Sat, Rahu, Mars, Merc, Sun.

5. As per Naadi Astrology, Mars is for husband which is with Rahu, MErc and Sun, so all become significators for marriage. I know this not KP, but I believe KP is the off shoot of Naadi Astrology and/or Naadi Astrology is the base for KP. This is my personal opinion only.

6. Jup definitely plays the important role in Marriage here.

7. Its can also be taken as JUp R in Libra aspecting planets in H(5). Libra is controlled by Ven and Ven in the Rasi of Sun. So Jup is aspecting Sun in two ways now.

These are just my humble opinions but not the authority. Again, itâ€™s always easy to postmortem the chart and come to some convincing argument or analysis once the event has taken place. But how many of us would have predicted Marriage during DBAS of jup, jup, jup and Mon, as the matter of fact.

Regards

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com [k_p_ system@grou ps.com] On Behalf Of RamaniThursday, June 25, 2009 12:10 AM@gro ups.comRe: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

Your analysis is quite convincing. Dr. Rath has also explained in a scientific way. In the first attachment to your query, his analysis was Jupiter aspected Sun. Juptr.

was 'R' posited in Scorpio and the Sun was in Gemini.

I viewed in normal astrologial aspect and not with scientific knowledge. Hope you are convinced with Dr,Rath's reply to my conusion. Pl. give me your views.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:23 PM

RE: first child birth

24 June 2009

Dear all

Girl's details:

DOB:8th July 1983TOB:22:23 hours ISTPOB:Madras India

I have casted the chart using Goravani software.

1. Sub Lord cusp(2,7,11) = Sat

2. Analyse Sat first, Sat in Star Mars-combust Sub Merc-combust

a. Sat signifies (4,8,3-10,1- 12)

b. Mars signifies (4,4,3-10)

c. Merc signifies (9,4,2-11,5- 8)

3. I think signification of houses(3,8,5, 11) can help to some extent in getting married

4. Mars and Merc are both combust, so they have given their energy to Sun and Sun signifies (9,4,2-11,7) , implying Sun is the strong significator of (2,7,11) so that effect seem to go to Mars and Merc too.

5. Consider DBAS JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO at the time of Marriage on Monday the 21st August 2006

6. Dasa, Bhukti, Antra = JUp in Star Sat Sub VEn

a. Jup signifies (8,9,1-12,2- 11) Ã¨ quite fruitful for marriage like scenario

b. Sat signifies (4,8,3-10,1- 12) but at the same time, SAT is the SUBLORD of CUSPS(2,5,7, 8,11)

c. Dasa Lord Jup has forced these houses to take action of which Sat is the Sub lord cusp

d. Sookshma LORd mon in Star Mars combust (take Sun signification as as well)

e. On the other hand Sun in Star Jup Sub Sat. Implying Sun will act as Jup role and give better effect during the Dasa of Jup (I guess) and Sun is the sole significator of house 7 too and also S(2,5,7,11)

f. Sun and Jup are complimentary to each other

g. Sun in Sub Sat and Sat is the SLC(2,5,7,8, 11), hence Sun plays very important role

I hope the above helps

With Love

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com [k_p_ system@grou ps.com] On Behalf Of Luther RathWednesday, June 24, 2009 12:51 PM@gro ups.comRe: first child birth

Respected Sir,

I have been writing all the replies to your doubts. I am not sure if I can complete today. If I do complete I shall send immidiately. Reason for writing this message is that I am going to Calcutta today for about 6 days. If I do not sent today it will be late for 6 days. Hope you shall bear with it.

With due regards.

Dr. Rath.

Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PMRe: first child birth

Dear Dr.Rath,

I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.

Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage,

except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much

confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.

This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,

while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.

Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM

Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]

Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.

Dr. Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comWednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM first child birth

Dear Members,It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?Girl's details are as follows:DOB:8th July 1983TOB:22:23 hours ISTPOB:Madras IndiaYour response will be much appreciated.

July 2, 2009

Dear Suprakashji,

You have done a 'SUPRAKASH' of the fact that Jupiter is in the constellation of Saturn that happens to be the sub-lord of II, V, VII and XI. This is perhaps the right connection of Jupiter with these houses. Thanks a lot.

1. Both Jupiter and Saturn are slow moving planets, sure. It does not mean that the event will be delayed. It may delay te process of the event. Secondly, Saturn is in the constellation of Mars. And involvement of Mars the event comes forth abruptly and unexpectedly. These are perhaps the reasons of early marriage of the girl.

2. I do not know if the groom is older. Mr Bala can tell us about it.

3. Saturn is occupant of VIII and lord of XII and the Ascendant. This indicates trouble in married life. Only future can say what happens in the comming years during period of Saturn.

4.Sun itself has not rendered any role in the marriage.

With Regards.

Dr. Rath

Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:44:05 PMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Dr. Rath

Jupiter is strongly connected not only with 7th but also with 2,5,11 being in star of cuspal sublord of all thease houses i.e Saturn.

My confusions are:

1 )Both Saturn & Jupiter connected with marriage - both of them slow moving planets - how they gave timely marriage?

2) How Saturn played its role then ? In the bridegrrom is much older?

3) Saturn itself doesn't support 7th house signification stronly..rather anti houses ... is married life happy??

4) Most probably marriage happend as lord of 7th Sun is the single strong significator of 7th in favourable positon on 5th cusp aspecting 11th cusp.

regards

Suprakash

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Monday, June 29, 2009 8:45 AM

Re: Re: first child birth

Good Morning and thanks Dear Subhashji for your kind information.

Dr. Rath

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comMonday, June 29, 2009 12:16:42 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Dr. Rath,Welcome! DBAS running on the date of marriage as per my software were Jup-Jup-Jup- Mar-Rah.I agree that Jup does not link to VII in any way. But Mars and Rahu clearly link to VII.Both Mars and Rahu are in the sub of Mercury -- a self strong planet -- which in turnis in rapt conjunction with Sun. Thus DBAS links to house VII through Mars and Rahu. It is not necessary that Jup should link to house VII. House VII should be activated by any of the DBAS lords. I hope with this you should be comfortable.RegardsSubhash Ektare

Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comSunday, June 28, 2009 7:09:53 AMRe: Re: first child birth

Dear Subhashji,

Good evening. I am convinced in your analysis through 4 step theory. Still we are not able to link with VII house which is the prime house for marriage. I am little bit uncomfortable on this issue.

With regards.

Dr. Rath.

Subhash <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comWednesday, June 24, 2009 7:12:20 PM Re: first child birth

Respected Sir,I have been following this thread for quite some time. With due apologies for intruding, I would like to offer my comments worth 2 cents.Girl DOB 8 Jul 1983.....TOB 22:23......POB Chennai, TamilnaduThe marriage of the girl was celebrated in Jup-Jup-Jup DBA.The signification of Jupiter according to "Four Step Theory" isItself :----------- --- Jupiter:- 9 2 11 It's N.Swami :-------- Saturn:- (8) (1) (12) It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6Houses mentioned in bracket are strong signification. In my opinion, 4th step in "Four Step Theory"

is a step of success which guides the astrologer to correct solution where analysis based on (1) planet (2) it's star lord and (3) it's sub lord fails as in present case.If you see signification of Jupiter (given above) it signifies house 8 through it's star lord Saturn. In four step theory house 8 is considered as supporting house for marriage. But even if this is not acceptable, kindly see it's signification in 4th step. Through Jupiter, the rashi swami of Ketu it signifies 2 as well as 11. And this signification is enough for giving marriage according to me. (Please note that Jupiter is lord of 2 and 11, but this is considered as weak signification because there are planets in Jupiter's star viz Sun and Mercury). It is therefore not necessary to link Jupiter to 7th house through Sun, the only significator of 7th house.Now, regarding the child birth. 5 CSL is Saturn and it's signification isItself

:----------- --- Saturn:- 8 1 12 It's N.Swami :-------- Mars:- (4) (3) 10 It's Sub :----------- - Venus:- (6) 4 9 It's Sub's N.Swami :-- Ketu:- (10) Rashi-Swami Jupiter (9) (2) (11) Moon-Drusht (4) 6It is worth noting that Saturn does not signify 2, 5 or 11 at planet, star or sub level, leading us to conclude that she will not be lucky to have a child. But again on 4th step it signifies 2 and 11 so we can boldly conclude that she is destined to have a child.Comments from seniors and stalwarts are welcome.Subhash Ektare@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@. ..> wrote:>> Respected Sir, Please find my answer in

the attachment.> Dr.Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ramani kadavasalramani@ ...> @gro ups.com> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM> Re: first child birth> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under query.> Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of 2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage, > except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much> confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.> This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,> while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in Gemini.> Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect Sun in Gemini.

Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I request you kindly to clarity these.> > Regards,> > K.S.V.Ramani> - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM> Re: first child birth [1 Attachment]> > Dear Sir, Please find the attachment.> Dr. Rath> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> balaanand53 anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM> first child birth> > > Dear Members,> > It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a

significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?> > Girl's details are as follows:> DOB:8th July 1983> TOB:22:23 hours IST> POB:Madras India> > Your response will be much appreciated.>

July 3, 2009

3 July 2009

Dear Sir

I will write to you shortly.

Regards

RG

On Behalf Of Luther Rath

Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:56 PM

Re: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

I am very happy to be pointed out that Jupiter aspects Sun

by its 5th aspect. By then Jupiter may be able to confer its powers to Sun but

not vice versa I suppose. It seems to me that Sun has to confer its power , the

portfoleo of VII on Jupiter. How does it happen. Sorry for troubling you.

Kindly reply.

Regards.

Dr. Rath.

Ramani <kadavasalramani

Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:18:42 AM

Re: first child birth

Dear

Mr.Grover,

The

attachment of Dr.Luther is same which you have read

his

analysis scientificlly.

Your

explanation is clear & made me to understand how Jupiter R aspects Sun by

his 5th aspect from Libra backward.

Thank

you,

K.S.V.Ramani

-----

Original Message -----

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Thursday, June 25,

2009 2:44 AM

RE:

first child birth

25 June 2009

Dear Shri Ramani ji

1. I have just read Dr Rathâ€™s analysis

Retro Jupiterâ€™s aspect on Sun. He had explained

scientifically.

2.

In addition to what I have

said earlier (please read below)

3. As per Naadi Astrology, when any

planet is Retro, it is assumed in the previous house AS WELL. It means,

the planet must be taken as occupying both houses, the one it is in and the one

where it is Retro.

4. If we take Jup R in Libra as well then

it would aspect Sat, Rahu, Mars, Merc, Sun.

5. As per Naadi Astrology, Mars is for

husband which is with Rahu, MErc and Sun, so all become significators for

marriage. I know this not KP, but I believe KP is the off shoot of Naadi

Astrology and/or Naadi Astrology is the base for KP. This is my personal

opinion only.

6. Jup definitely plays the important role

in Marriage here.

7. Its can also be taken as JUp R in Libra

aspecting planets in H(5). Libra is controlled by Ven and Ven in the Rasi

of Sun. So Jup is aspecting Sun in two ways now.

These are just my humble opinions

but not the authority. Again, itâ€™s always easy to postmortem the

chart and come to some convincing argument or analysis once the event has

taken place. But how many of us would have predicted Marriage

during DBAS of jup, jup, jup and Mon, as the matter of fact.

Regards

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com [k_p_

system@grou ps.com] On

Behalf Of Ramani

Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:10 AM

@gro ups.com

Re: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

Your analysis is quite convincing. Dr. Rath has

also explained in a scientific way. In the first attachment to your query, his

analysis was Jupiter aspected Sun. Juptr.

was 'R' posited in Scorpio and the Sun was in Gemini.

I viewed in normal astrologial aspect and not with scientific

knowledge. Hope you are convinced with Dr,Rath's reply to my

conusion. Pl. give me your views.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Sent:

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:23 PM

RE:

first child birth

24 June 2009

Dear all

Girl's

details:

DOB:8th

July 1983

TOB:22:23 hours IST

POB:Madras India

I have casted the chart using Goravani

software.

1. Sub Lord cusp(2,7,11) = Sat

2. Analyse Sat first, Sat in Star

Mars-combust Sub Merc-combust

a. Sat signifies (4,8,3-10,1- 12)

b. Mars signifies (4,4,3-10)

c.

Merc signifies (9,4,2-11,5-

8)

3. I think signification of houses(3,8,5,

11) can help to some extent in getting married

4. Mars and Merc are both combust, so they

have given their energy to Sun and Sun signifies (9,4,2-11,7) , implying Sun is

the strong significator of (2,7,11) so that effect seem to go to Mars and Merc

too.

5. Consider DBAS JUP-JUP-JUP-

MOO at the time of Marriage on Monday

the 21st August 2006

6. Dasa,

Bhukti, Antra = JUp in Star Sat Sub VEn

a. Jup

signifies (8,9,1-12,2- 11) Ã¨ quite

fruitful for marriage like scenario

b. Sat

signifies (4,8,3-10,1-

12) but at the same time, SAT is the SUBLORD of CUSPS(2,5,7, 8,11)

c.

Dasa Lord Jup has forced these houses to take action of which Sat

is the Sub lord cusp

d. Sookshma

LORd mon in Star Mars combust (take Sun signification as as well)

e. On

the other hand Sun in Star Jup Sub Sat. Implying Sun will act as Jup role

and give better effect during the Dasa of Jup (I guess) and Sun is the sole

significator of house 7 too and also S(2,5,7,11)

f.

Sun and Jup are complimentary to each other

g. Sun

in Sub Sat and Sat is the SLC(2,5,7,8, 11), hence Sun plays very important role

I hope the above helps

With Love

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com [k_p_ system@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Luther Rath

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:51 PM

@gro ups.com

Re: first child birth

Respected

Sir,

I

have been writing all the replies to your doubts. I am not sure if I can

complete today. If I do complete I shall send immidiately. Reason for writing

this message is that I am going to Calcutta today for about 6 days. If I do not

sent today it will be late for 6 days. Hope you shall bear with it.

With

due regards.

Dr.

Rath.

Ramani

<kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

@gro ups.com

Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM

Re: first child birth

Dear Dr.Rath,

I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under

query.

Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of

2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage,

except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is

accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much

confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro. motion.

This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,

while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in

Gemini.

Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot

aspect Sun in Gemini. Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun

in Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I

request you kindly to clarity these.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Sent:

Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM

Re:

first child birth [1 Attachment]

Dear

Sir, Please find the attachment.

Dr.

Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT)

com>

@gro

ups.com

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM

first child birth

Dear Members,

It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and

11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on

Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where

Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also

the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only

significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth

to a child?

Girl's details are as follows:

DOB:8th July 1983

TOB:22:23 hours IST

POB:Madras India

Your response will be much appreciated.

July 3, 2009

Dear Bala,

Good Morning.

I think you have got the doubts cleared by now from a long discussion in the forum. It was really interesting.

Will you mind furnishing the birth detail of the husband of the girl?

Regards.

Dr. Rath

Anand Bala <anandbala9 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:15:30 AMRe: first child birth

Hello Dr.Rath,

My apologies for this belated reply.

As you rightly pointed out, the horoscope is very challenging. I did advise the girl's mother in 2005 that the girl will get married in August 2006. Now both mother and the girl are worried about the child birth.

I have received some replies from members and tend to adjust the time of birth so that Jup will be the sub lord of both 7th & 5th cusps.Rather than looking at the ruling planets at the time of query I would like to rectify the time of birth based on an event where the girl last her grand father on 3rd September 2003.

Unfortunately, I could not receive your analysis of this girl. will appreciate if you could kindly forward your analysis.

My full name is Anand Bala but every one calls me Bala as it is my given name and Anand is my father's name.

best regards.

Bala

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote:

Dear Anandji,

I assume you are Anand by name. If wrong I am sorry.

Did you get any reply from any body to your message? If so kindly inform me.

The horoscope is definitely a challange for us. I have been swimming in it for quite some time.

I request plesse reply me.

With regards.

Dr. Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

@gro ups.comWednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM

first child birth

Dear Members,It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and 11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth to a child?Girl's details are as follows:DOB:8th July 1983TOB:22:23 hours ISTPOB:Madras IndiaYour response will be much appreciated.

July 3, 2009

3 July 2009

Dear Dr Rath

Please accept my heartiest wishes and Congratulations on your

deep insight to Divine science. More than that, your eagerness to go further

deeper without any trace ofÂ ego makes you a very good astrologer.Â

By any means,Â I am NOT the

authority in the said subject.Â I am just a student.Â In addition to what I

have said earlier (please see below old emails),Â I would like to furnishing

myÂ views, here as follows:

As per Naadi (NOT KP) principles, Â Jup Retro

(8deg 10 min) is TRINE toÂ Rahu(0-19) + Mars C(27-20) + Merc C(21-16) + Sun(22-25) Ã¨ they

all seems to be in the same direction, means as good as in the same house/sign.Â

All the planets in TRINE aspect each other mutually.

Regards

RG

On Behalf Of Luther

Rath

Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:56 PM

Re: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

I am very happy to be pointed out that Jupiter aspects Sun

by its 5th aspect. By then Jupiter may be able to confer its powers to Sun but

not vice versa I suppose. It seems to me that Sun has to confer its power , the

portfoleo of VII on Jupiter. How does it happen. Sorry for troubling you.

Kindly reply.

Regards.

Dr. Rath.

Ramani <kadavasalramani

Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:18:42 AM

Re: first child birth

Dear

Mr.Grover,

The

attachment of Dr.Luther is same which you have read

his

analysis scientificlly.

Your

explanation is clear & made me to understand how Jupiter R aspects Sun by

his 5th aspect from Libra backward.

Thank

you,

K.S.V.Ramani

-----

Original Message -----

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Thursday, June 25,

2009 2:44 AM

RE:

first child birth

25 June 2009

Dear Shri Ramani ji

1. I have just read Dr Rathâ€™s analysis

Retro Jupiterâ€™s aspect on Sun. He had explained

scientifically.

2.

In addition to what I have

said earlier (please read below)

3. As per Naadi Astrology, when any

planet is Retro, it is assumed in the previous house AS WELL. It means,

the planet must be taken as occupying both houses, the one it is in and the one

where it is Retro.

4. If we take Jup R in Libra as well then

it would aspect Sat, Rahu, Mars, Merc, Sun.

5. As per Naadi Astrology, Mars is for

husband which is with Rahu, MErc and Sun, so all become significators for

marriage. I know this not KP, but I believe KP is the off shoot of Naadi

Astrology and/or Naadi Astrology is the base for KP. This is my personal

opinion only.

6. Jup definitely plays the important role

in Marriage here.

7. Its can also be taken as JUp R in Libra

aspecting planets in H(5). Libra is controlled by Ven and Ven in the Rasi

of Sun. So Jup is aspecting Sun in two ways now.

These are just my humble opinions

but not the authority. Again, itâ€™s always easy to postmortem the

chart and come to some convincing argument or analysis once the event has

taken place. But how many of us would have predicted Marriage

during DBAS of jup, jup, jup and Mon, as the matter of fact.

Regards

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

[k_p_ system@grou ps.com]

On Behalf Of Ramani

Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:10 AM

@gro ups.com

Re: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

Your analysis is quite convincing. Dr. Rath has

also explained in a scientific way. In the first attachment to your query, his

analysis was Jupiter aspected Sun. Juptr.

was 'R' posited in Scorpio and the Sun was in Gemini.

I viewed in normal astrologial aspect and not with

scientific knowledge. Hope you are convinced with Dr,Rath's reply to my

conusion. Pl. give me your views.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com

Sent:

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:23 PM

RE:

first child birth

24 June 2009

Dear all

Girl's

details:

DOB:8th

July 1983

TOB:22:23 hours IST

POB:Madras India

I have casted the chart using Goravani

software.

1. Sub Lord cusp(2,7,11) = Sat

2. Analyse Sat first, Sat in Star

Mars-combust Sub Merc-combust

a. Sat signifies (4,8,3-10,1- 12)

b. Mars signifies (4,4,3-10)

c.

Merc signifies (9,4,2-11,5-

8)

3. I think signification of houses(3,8,5, 11)

can help to some extent in getting married

4. Mars and Merc are both combust, so they

have given their energy to Sun and Sun signifies (9,4,2-11,7) , implying Sun is

the strong significator of (2,7,11) so that effect seem to go to Mars and Merc

too.

5. Consider DBAS JUP-JUP-JUP-

MOO at the time of Marriage on Monday

the 21st August 2006

6. Dasa,

Bhukti, Antra = JUp in Star Sat Sub VEn

a. Jup

signifies (8,9,1-12,2- 11) Ã¨ quite

fruitful for marriage like scenario

b. Sat

signifies (4,8,3-10,1-

12) but at the same time, SAT is the SUBLORD of CUSPS(2,5,7, 8,11)

c.

Dasa Lord Jup has forced these houses to take action of which Sat

is the Sub lord cusp

d. Sookshma

LORd mon in Star Mars combust (take Sun signification as as well)

e. On

the other hand Sun in Star Jup Sub Sat. Implying Sun will act as Jup role

and give better effect during the Dasa of Jup (I guess) and Sun is the sole

significator of house 7 too and also S(2,5,7,11)

f.

Sun and Jup are complimentary to each other

g. Sun

in Sub Sat and Sat is the SLC(2,5,7,8, 11), hence Sun plays very important role

I hope the above helps

With Love

Ravinder Grover

@gro ups.com [k_p_ system@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Luther Rath

Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:51 PM

@gro ups.com

Re: first child birth

Respected

Sir,

I

have been writing all the replies to your doubts. I am not sure if I can

complete today. If I do complete I shall send immidiately. Reason for writing

this message is that I am going to Calcutta today for about 6 days. If I do not

sent today it will be late for 6 days. Hope you shall bear with it.

With

due regards.

Dr.

Rath.

Ramani

<kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

@gro ups.com

Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07:24 PM

Re: first child birth

Dear Dr.Rath,

I saw your analysis reg. marriage of the girl under

query.

Though the 7th SL devoid of marriage significations of

2,7,11 and has no strong reason for it to give marriage,

except his aspect on 11th, your rasoning is

accepted. But in regard to Jupiter ® vs. Sun (aspect) is very much

confusing. Jupiter is posited in 10th in Retro.

motion.

This means Jupiter is moving backward towars 9th,

while the Sun is in 4th Bhavam but physically in

Gemini.

Jupiter if considered as in 10th it cannot aspect

Sun in Gemini. Jupiter while moving backward cannot be said to aspet Sun in

Gemini. Another thing, whether position of earth is Sun's place?. I

request you kindly to clarity these.

Regards,

K.S.V.Ramani

-

Luther Rath

@gro ups.com

Sent:

Monday, June 15, 2009 11:14 AM

Re:

first child birth [1 Attachment]

Dear

Sir, Please find the attachment.

Dr.

Rath

balaanand53 <anandbala9 (AT) gmail (DOT)

com>

@gro

ups.com

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:01 AM

first child birth

Dear Members,

It is an interesting horoscope of a girl. Saturn is the sublord of 2nd, 7th and

11th houses and is not a significator of these houses. but she got married on

Monday the 21st August 2006 when she was running JUP-JUP-JUP- MOO period where

Jupiter is not the significator of the 7th house. Now the same Saturn is also

the sub lord of 5th house, which falls in Gemini, a barren sign.The only

significator of the 5th house is Mercury. The question is will she give birth

to a child?

Girl's details are as follows:

DOB:8th July 1983

TOB:22:23 hours IST

POB:Madras India

Your response will be much appreciated.

July 5, 2009

Thanks a lot Ravinderji.

For your heartiest wishes and appreciation.

I do not know A B C D of Nadi. Hence I am unable to give any opinion on that.

Dr. Rath

Ravinder Grover <rgrover Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 1:02:39 PMRE: first child birth

3 July 2009

Dear Dr Rath

Please accept my heartiest wishes and Congratulations on your deep insight to Divine science. More than that, your eagerness to go further deeper without any trace of ego makes you a very good astrologer.

By any means, I am NOT the authority in the said subject. I am just a student. In addition to what I have said earlier (please see below old emails), I would like to furnishing my views, here as follows:

As per Naadi (NOT KP) principles, Jup Retro (8deg 10 min) is TRINE to Rahu(0-19) + Mars C(27-20) + Merc C(21-16) + Sun(22-25) Ã¨ they all seems to be in the same direction, means as good as in the same house/sign. All the planets in TRINE aspect each other mutually.

Regards

RG

@gro ups.com [k_p_ system@grou ps.com] On Behalf Of Luther RathThursday, July 02, 2009 4:56 PM@gro ups.comRe: first child birth

Dear Mr. Grover,

I am very happy to be pointed out that Jupiter aspects Sun by its 5th aspect. By then Jupiter may be able to confer its powers to Sun but not vice versa I suppose. It seems to me that Sun has to confer its power , the portfoleo of VII on Jupiter. How does it happen. Sorry for troubling you.

Kindly reply.

Regards.

Dr. Rath.

Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comThursday, June 25, 2009 1:18:42 AMRe: first child birth