Guest guest Report post Posted July 3, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 Namaste Sri RafalVedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were born in India. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 Namaste Sri RafalVedas are connected to the Truth. The whole point is that any vesha-bhusha is to be taken that brings thoughts of the Truth. For example, Prabhu Krishna is blue in color and clothed in yellow. The symbolic meaning is that the vastness like the space of Truth (blue color) is clothes in yellow (in Earthly hue). Meaning the Lord in body form. There is symbolism present in the culture. Like a tilak on the forehead reminds us that we reside in the Lord and that makes us auspicious. It makes us remember Prabhu in each human being. So on and so forth. A upasak can connect many clothes to symbolism. So it is best that the change occurs within and clothes be left without so much differentiation. Thanks and RegardsBharat On 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were born in India. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Yes, from Dvaita point of view Devatas have these clothes, not only as symbols and also from eternal substance. Anyway, You must admit that Culture in India has connection to Veda, Purana. Its not something conventionally only. Therefore there must be some logic which shows that these types of clothes should be worn by spiritual people which I believe is very correct. Ajit says it has connection to Ashtanga Yoga and I also feel that altough its not highly important still there must be some sense behind it. I wanted to know slokas in Sastra which says that Devatas are wearing clothes similar to current dhotis/saris. I couldnt find word Sari, so I suspect it has non-Vedic origin, however the cloth can have other name than this. What do You think? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedas are connected to the Truth. The whole point is that any vesha-bhusha is to be taken that brings thoughts of the Truth. For example, Prabhu Krishna is blue in color and clothed in yellow. The symbolic meaning is that the vastness like the space of Truth (blue color) is clothes in yellow (in Earthly hue). Meaning the Lord in body form. There is symbolism present in the culture. Like a tilak on the forehead reminds us that we reside in the Lord and that makes us auspicious. It makes us remember Prabhu in each human being. So on and so forth. A upasak can connect many clothes to symbolism. So it is best that the change occurs within and clothes be left without so much differentiation. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were born in India. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Rafal, If you can get hold of Satyanarayana Vrata sholokas, or any Vratas of Goddessess, or the Ashtottara of the the 9 planets, you will get enough info..Anand On 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Yes, from Dvaita point of view Devatas have these clothes, not only as symbols and also from eternal substance. Anyway, You must admit that Culture in India has connection to Veda, Purana. Its not something conventionally only. Therefore there must be some logic which shows that these types of clothes should be worn by spiritual people which I believe is very correct. Ajit says it has connection to Ashtanga Yoga and I also feel that altough its not highly important still there must be some sense behind it. I wanted to know slokas in Sastra which says that Devatas are wearing clothes similar to current dhotis/saris. I couldnt find word Sari, so I suspect it has non-Vedic origin, however the cloth can have other name than this. What do You think? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedas are connected to the Truth. The whole point is that any vesha-bhusha is to be taken that brings thoughts of the Truth. For example, Prabhu Krishna is blue in color and clothed in yellow. The symbolic meaning is that the vastness like the space of Truth (blue color) is clothes in yellow (in Earthly hue). Meaning the Lord in body form. There is symbolism present in the culture. Like a tilak on the forehead reminds us that we reside in the Lord and that makes us auspicious. It makes us remember Prabhu in each human being. So on and so forth. A upasak can connect many clothes to symbolism. So it is best that the change occurs within and clothes be left without so much differentiation. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were born in India. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com -- ThanksAnand Srivatsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India. > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme> wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com nix_nixen napisał(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India. > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme> wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Scholars, The Rishis were to wear different clothes, than the Kshatriya, The general people / farmer / traders, they were to wear different clothes. The fabric used was different. The region, like the Kashi vishwanath 's traditional clothes or say the Priest / Pujari wear different clothes than the south india. The Gujrati Clothes / Punjabi Clothes / Marathi Culture, Rajasthani Culture. West Bengal, Kashmir. each state have different type of traditional clothing. The current Sari and Dhoti donot have direct relation with Vedic but they have relation to the culture of the state. Sari is wore in different styles in each state. and the similar thing among all the rituals followed in india is the COLOUR, and the colour can be termed as Vedic not the clothes. Nepal is pure Hindu Country and there culture is also different. Do Someone knows why Orange is our sacred / Vedic colour ?????? neither red, nor green nor white ... Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comnix_nixen napisał(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya*> > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme> wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya|| Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India. > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme> wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India . > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ....> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Rafal, As i wrote in my previous email, that Rishis were to wear Different clothes then the general public. Saree / Dhoti is not vedic one. No state can represent Closest form of Vedic which you are looking for. because all states were to follow the tradition around them. Rishis were to wear unstiched cloth around them, and the same was with women that time. In south india you will find different way. unfortunately you wont be able to get this in shastras but this is what we learned from history and from Temples. The current way Saree is worn is a from kind of fashion change. and dhoti ( for male ) is from traditon. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 1:05 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic?Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya*> > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Tarun, Im not talkin about Rsis, but Vedic way of clothing the people in general. How this model differs from current clothing? I mean from dhoti, sari. About states: still some state can be closer to what Veda/Puranas describe. Im sure its there in sastras. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com ~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal, As i wrote in my previous email, that Rishis were to wear Different clothes then the general public. Saree / Dhoti is not vedic one. No state can represent Closest form of Vedic which you are looking for. because all states were to follow the tradition around them. Rishis were to wear unstiched cloth around them, and the same was with women that time. In south india you will find different way. unfortunately you wont be able to get this in shastras but this is what we learned from history and from Temples. The current way Saree is worn is a from kind of fashion change. and dhoti ( for male ) is from traditon. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:05 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India . > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ....> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Rafal , I guess you didnt presented your question in specific way. What would you like to know by Vedic System. should vedas tell how to wear clothes ?? or what to wear as clothes. or what to wear during Yagya or while making some havan etc. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 1:42 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tarun,Im not talkin about Rsis, but Vedic way of clothing the people in general. How this model differs from current clothing? I mean from dhoti, sari.About states: still some state can be closer to what Veda/Puranas describe.Im sure its there in sastras.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal, As i wrote in my previous email, that Rishis were to wear Different clothes then the general public. Saree / Dhoti is not vedic one. No state can represent Closest form of Vedic which you are looking for. because all states were to follow the tradition around them. Rishis were to wear unstiched cloth around them, and the same was with women that time. In south india you will find different way. unfortunately you wont be able to get this in shastras but this is what we learned from history and from Temples. The current way Saree is worn is a from kind of fashion change. and dhoti ( for male ) is from traditon. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:05 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic?Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya*> > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Tarun, Vedas & Puranas spoke about everything, every aspect has its own meaning as Tijana presneted. I was discussing these things with Iskcon devotees, and wanted to broaden horizons on that aspect. Simple as that. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com ~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal , I guess you didnt presented your question in specific way. What would you like to know by Vedic System. should vedas tell how to wear clothes ?? or what to wear as clothes. or what to wear during Yagya or while making some havan etc. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:42 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tarun, Im not talkin about Rsis, but Vedic way of clothing the people in general. How this model differs from current clothing? I mean from dhoti, sari. About states: still some state can be closer to what Veda/Puranas describe. Im sure its there in sastras. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com ~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal, As i wrote in my previous email, that Rishis were to wear Different clothes then the general public. Saree / Dhoti is not vedic one. No state can represent Closest form of Vedic which you are looking for. because all states were to follow the tradition around them. Rishis were to wear unstiched cloth around them, and the same was with women that time. In south india you will find different way. unfortunately you wont be able to get this in shastras but this is what we learned from history and from Temples. The current way Saree is worn is a from kind of fashion change. and dhoti ( for male ) is from traditon. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:05 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India . > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ....> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Rafal, Tijana talked abt Mahabharat time, and Vedas are much older than that age. now where is written that Drupadi was wearing Sari which is still used in current age. ?? She might be wearing something else. But you can try in Parampara Library for such notes, definately you can find it there. Warm Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 1:53 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tarun,Vedas & Puranas spoke about everything, every aspect has its own meaning as Tijana presneted. I was discussing these things with Iskcon devotees, and wanted to broaden horizons on that aspect. Simple as that.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal , I guess you didnt presented your question in specific way. What would you like to know by Vedic System. should vedas tell how to wear clothes ?? or what to wear as clothes. or what to wear during Yagya or while making some havan etc. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:42 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tarun,Im not talkin about Rsis, but Vedic way of clothing the people in general. How this model differs from current clothing? I mean from dhoti, sari.About states: still some state can be closer to what Veda/Puranas describe.Im sure its there in sastras.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com~Tarun~ napisa³(a): Dear Rafal, As i wrote in my previous email, that Rishis were to wear Different clothes then the general public. Saree / Dhoti is not vedic one. No state can represent Closest form of Vedic which you are looking for. because all states were to follow the tradition around them. Rishis were to wear unstiched cloth around them, and the same was with women that time. In south india you will find different way. unfortunately you wont be able to get this in shastras but this is what we learned from history and from Temples. The current way Saree is worn is a from kind of fashion change. and dhoti ( for male ) is from traditon. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa@ .com Friday, July 06, 2007 1:05 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic?Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local ‘fashion’. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisa³(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya*> > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya|| Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hraum namah adityayaDear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafalJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa .. com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007  Dear Shailesh ji, yes Tijana mentioned Cheer Haran not Sari Haran. so we cannot justify/ find in written that Sari or Dhoti is according to Vedic. Regards, Tarun - Shailesh Chadha sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:25 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya|| Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme (AT) wp (DOT) pl> wrote: hraum namah adityayaDear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Shailesh, #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree? #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also. #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer.  To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.  To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human.  Your question relates to human practices.  Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.  The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.  Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.  So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.  Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |  Dear Rafal & Tijana,  I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count.  Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???  They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.  So also for the head-gear, or turbans.  These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.  Regards,  Shailesh  sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: Re: Vedic Clothes  hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India . > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa .. com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ....> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007  Dear Rafal, cheer means cloth, not sari. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Shailesh,#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also.#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear Tarun, Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in Vedas - clear question. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com ~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a):  Dear Rafal,  cheer means cloth, not sari.  Regards,  Tarun  ----- Original Message ----- Rafal Gendarz To: sohamsa Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Shailesh, #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree? #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also. #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer.  To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.  To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human.  Your question relates to human practices.  Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.  The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.  Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.  So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.  Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji, Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |  Dear Rafal & Tijana,  I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count.  Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???  They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.  So also for the head-gear, or turbans.  These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.  Regards,  Shailesh  sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: Re: Vedic Clothes  hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana, Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully. It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING. Thank You for help. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave Namah Dear Rafal, i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari. One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today. Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood. As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important. Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat, > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India . > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a): > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote: > > > > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Jyotishas, > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of > > that clothing. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ....> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007  Dear Rafal, The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time. Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done they were to use cotton made fabrics. They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this is helps. Regards, tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tarun,Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in Vedas - clear question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a):  Dear Rafal, cheer means cloth, not sari. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Shailesh,#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also.#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > <starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 Namaste Sri RafalOf course, the culture of India is purely connected to Vedas and Puranas. In fact, it is this culture that binds the entire country together. The culture of Hindutva - the way of life as per Vedas and Puranas, is the binding force of the Bharatvarsha (India). If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual cloth - then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to anyone. Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which comes from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just decide which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any living organism. As far as origins of Saree are concerned, you'd have to talk to historians. Someone once told me that there is a reference of Saree in the Rig Veda, but, I do not generally worry about such references so did not ask him the exact verse. You can also check Markendya Purana. When each of the Gods gave powers to Ma Durga, is there a reference on who gave the Vastra or a Saree? Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Yes, from Dvaita point of view Devatas have these clothes, not only as symbols and also from eternal substance. Anyway, You must admit that Culture in India has connection to Veda, Purana. Its not something conventionally only. Therefore there must be some logic which shows that these types of clothes should be worn by spiritual people which I believe is very correct. Ajit says it has connection to Ashtanga Yoga and I also feel that altough its not highly important still there must be some sense behind it. I wanted to know slokas in Sastra which says that Devatas are wearing clothes similar to current dhotis/saris. I couldnt find word Sari, so I suspect it has non-Vedic origin, however the cloth can have other name than this. What do You think? Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedas are connected to the Truth. The whole point is that any vesha-bhusha is to be taken that brings thoughts of the Truth. For example, Prabhu Krishna is blue in color and clothed in yellow. The symbolic meaning is that the vastness like the space of Truth (blue color) is clothes in yellow (in Earthly hue). Meaning the Lord in body form. There is symbolism present in the culture. Like a tilak on the forehead reminds us that we reside in the Lord and that makes us auspicious. It makes us remember Prabhu in each human being. So on and so forth. A upasak can connect many clothes to symbolism. So it is best that the change occurs within and clothes be left without so much differentiation. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/5/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Bharat, Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were born in India. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a): Namaste Sri Rafal Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/4/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Jyotishas, Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of that clothing. Regards, Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007 Om Namah Shivaya Dear Tarun, Namaste Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for mummification too. Please correct me if Iam wrong. In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for some special occation is tied in a specific way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times. I remember they tied my dothi to in this way during Upanayanam. Rgds Anand On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo wrote:  Dear Rafal, The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time. Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done they were to use cotton made fabrics. They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this is helps. Regards, tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tarun,Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in Vedas - clear question. Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafalJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a):  Dear Rafal, cheer means cloth, not sari. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Shailesh,#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree? #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also.#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafalJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa .. com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > < starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> > > > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com < http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2007  Dear Anand ji, It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made cloth :-) as Bharat ji said ""If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual cloth - then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to anyone. Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which comes from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just decide which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any living organism. "" The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be used in those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now call them saree actually. Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that , do he want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to wear in Temples or Havan Yagya etc. If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more detailed, but Sari is not the exact term. Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age. as Shailesh ji too said in his mail "The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. "" Regards, Tarun - Anand Ravi sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes Om Namah Shivaya Dear Tarun, Namaste Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for mummification too. Please correct me if Iam wrong. In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for some special occation is tied in a specific way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times. I remember they tied my dothi to in this way during Upanayanam. Rgds Anand On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo > wrote:  Dear Rafal, The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time. Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done they were to use cotton made fabrics. They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this is helps. Regards, tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Tarun,Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in Vedas - clear question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a):  Dear Rafal, cheer means cloth, not sari. Regards, Tarun - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM Re: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityayaDear Shailesh,#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree? #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also.#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa.comShailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal, Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to answer. To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine knowledge - not human. Your question relates to human practices. Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known. Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. Regards, Shailesh On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hraum namah adityaya Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic? Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing? Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guru email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. comShailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | Dear Rafal & Tijana, I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes – Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. So also for the head-gear, or turbans. These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. Regards, Shailesh sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Rafal GendarzFriday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AMsohamsa@ .comRe: Re: Vedic Clothes hraum namah adityaya Dear Tijana,Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.Thank You for help.Regards,Rafal Gendarz Sri Jagannath Center Guruemail: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) comJyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): Om Gurave NamahDear Rafal,i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long history of sari.One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is traditional in clothes we are seeing today.Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and ornaments are important.Hope this helps in some way. Warm regards,Tijana sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> *hraum namah adityaya* > > Dear Bharat,> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to culture > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate fact > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how much > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp those > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who were > born in India .> > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz> Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> >> > Namaste Sri Rafal> >> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, isn't > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre robes > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have all > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes. > >> > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> >> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > < starsuponme > wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> >> > Dear Jyotishas,> >> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which describe> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to form of> > that clothing.> >> > > > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com < http://www.rohinaa. com>> >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
