Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of Camelot!

[Guest guest]

Well, in that case I am sorry RRji. I hope you would not mind addressing

your message to the particular person. The context gets lost at times.

 

However, I feel it is the same thing, when I say 'Judgment of age left to

posterity',

By age I meant the era or yug or time and everything to do with it,

including humanity. Posterity is free to make its judgement about that age

(on the basis of what it gets as evidence). Whether it is true or false, or

real or fiction, who will know? Hence the examples, the other way round.

Some farsighted people distorting history... for future generations.

 

No issues though....

 

Regards

Neelam

 

 

 

2009/3/20 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani

 

> Neelam jee,

>

> You interpreted what I wrote to one of the members here, differently than

> was was my intention, which to quote myself was, " ...would that necessarily

> be evidence of how humanity lived oh say few thousand years ago from when

> these will be found...? "

>

> anyways...

>

> RR

>

>

> <%40>,

> neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohini ji,

> >

> > That was a good point. Judgment of age left to posterity! Or if you have

> the

> > power, twist the tale and relax in the heavens, while posterity sings

> your

> > glory! Are we sure our ancients didn't know this simple trick! Remember

> > `Time Capsule', the project meant to deify Madame. No one has a clue

> about

> > the fate of the mission, but Krishnaswamy, the PTC historian has been

> > rediscovered and adorned with a Padma Shri this year. Those who are

> > interested, may go fishing under the parliament house!! or wait till

> > posterity.

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Namaste Rohini Ranjan,

 

From what I understand from your post, it appears that you are questioning the

validity of the stories in the vedic texts. Are you saying that the stories are

myths?

 

Regards,

 

JR

 

 

, " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani wrote:

>

> How do we know that for sure that that was so?

> Imagine if few thousand years from now, someone were to come upon a time

capsule that contains copies of three or four modern epics or a series of those

from the writings of J.R. Tolkien, J.K. Rowlings, George Lucas, complete with a

well-preserved DVD or few that ANY and ALL DVD STANDARDS ever to be described

can 'READ' and display -- would that necessarily be evidence of how humanity

lived oh say few thousand years ago from when these will be found...?

>

> I realize this may upset many but leave the emotion out of religion or at

least HISTORY and rethink about it all this logic and evidence!

>

> RR

>

>

> , Balasubramaniam Ramachandran <balsu46@>

wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namaste John,

> >

> >           Thank you for your  logical observation on my doubt. As you said,

the ancient rishis were living in the age when the whole human race  were

Brahmanishtas.   We are in the grip of gunas and it is natural to have such

doubts.

> >

> > with regards

> > SRB

> >

> >

> > --- On Wed, 18/3/09, John <jr_esq@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > John <jr_esq@>

> > Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

> >

> > Wednesday, 18 March, 2009, 12:23 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namaste Balasubramaniam,

> >

> > I believe the strength of the 9th house and its lord is the main factor that

can help resist temptations. The 9th house is the house of the highest

knowledge, which includes your belief on how this phenomenal world was created.

The ancient texts consider this house to be Vishnusthana or Laksmisthana..

> >

> > The 9th house is the key to the development of higher levels of

consciousness. This house signifies samadhi or pure consciousness. Why? Because

it is the 10th house (karma) from the 12h house, the bhava for meditation

representing loss of thoughts for the sake of transcendental consciousness.

> >

> > As the higher levels of consciousness are attained, the attachments to the

gunas, which includes the shadripus, diminish. From my own understanding, this

is the reason why the ancient texts emphasize the tapas and renunciation efforts

done by the ancient rishis.

> >

> > In effect, we are not necessarily bound by the grip of the grahas in our

daily lives. But without the knowledge above, human beings will be conditioned

and subjected to the whims of the gunas.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > John R.

> >

> > , Balasubramaniam Ramachandran

<balsu46@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste John,

> > >

> > >               It is an interesting discussion on temptress and its

trappings.  But in some charts the combination of Venus and Mars is doing the

havoc but the individuals go unnoticed and the affairs are going on.  In some

cases, even before falling to the trap some Godsend saves the individual from

such fall.  There should be some planet/planets who can perform the art of

conscience keeping.  Share the thoughts on these aspects also.

> > >

> > > With regards

> > > SRB

> > >

> > > --- On Wed, 18/3/09, John <jr_esq@> wrote:

> > >

> > > John <jr_esq@>

> > > Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

> > >

> > > Wednesday, 18 March, 2009, 1:07 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namaste Neelam,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You hit the nail on the head, as the common phrase is used here in the

USA. Money is a major source of attachment, an apsara of a different kind.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > JR

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear John

> > >

> > > > Namaste

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > //That means that a higher power is causing these apsaras to tempt him

for a

> > >

> > > > purpose. In the vedic texts, we are told that Indra is the diety that

orders

> > >

> > > > these temptations to test the person's mettle, as a leader or a

renunciate.

> > >

> > > > If a person fails the test, he is expected to get back up and strive for

> > >

> > > > perfection once again.//

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I agree with you completely on this. This is what I had in mind when the

> > >

> > > > discussion started. The shad ripus I mentioned in a previous mail hold

the

> > >

> > > > astrological key to this. The six enemies in the form of kama (lust),

krodha

> > >

> > > > (anger), lobha (greed), moha (infatuation) , mada (pride), and matsar

> > >

> > > > (jealousy), have to be conquered to be eligible for the great and final

> > >

> > > > escape. These enemies erode our body-mind complex from within leading to

its

> > >

> > > > weakness and repeated death and rebirth. This is the 6-11 connection and

the

> > >

> > > > challenges which one is likely to encounter. Besides this, 6H gives the

> > >

> > > > results of previous karma and shows rinanubandhan and 11 blocks the

entry to

> > >

> > > > heavens.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > We all face the shad ripus in various forms, mostly denoted by the 6H

and

> > >

> > > > try to conquer them in various ways. But what is the final test that

we've

> > >

> > > > conquered these enemies? Or at least conquered them as per the prarabdh

of

> > >

> > > > the given birth? The apsaras are sent in various forms to test the

soul..

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > MONEY is one of the most beautiful apsaras in kaliyug. All virtues are

blown

> > >

> > > > off when this apsara comes to test!!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regards

> > >

> > > > Neelam

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Neelam jee,

 

I did not mind your posting a response, at all :-) Public discussions can only

benefit from more than two minds discussing and your contributions have been

enriching the discussions here, as I am sure you already know.

 

Yes I see your point about " posterity judging [or mis-judging]... " being the

other pole of leaving evidence that would be judged by posterity. However, the

latter somehow implies a bit of insincerity or 'manipulated evidence' on the

part of one who left the evidence. I sincerely do not believe that was the case

or even a possibility when viewing ancient texts.

 

That said, it is my belief that jyotish scriptures and other scriptures were

carefully composed and were not casual chronicles. The purity of the language

used, the composition and presentation as verses was to give the text a certain

special status, a certain ceremoniality, if I am using the right term. I also

believe (this is faith and subjective and not evidential since I am not a vedic

historian etc) that the scriptures as we have them today were not meant to be

comprehensive and despite the high quality of presentation were partial

references and almost certainly texts to be fortified by hands-on teaching and

learning. Why else would there be no examples or horoscopes in nearly all the

jyotish scriptures, except perhaps a partial chart discussed in Satyajatakam?

 

Given the above, hopefully reasonable derivation, the modern jyotishi should not

adopt the hard-line position that some may have taken to not step outside the

boundaries of BPHS or half a dozen other texts, and also to avoid inculcating

the fear in beginners that it is NOT KOSHER to mix so called Parashari tenets

with Jaimini tenets. I understand that some teachers are fearful of their

students getting confused, but most serious Jyotishis that I see or know of are

well-educated, mentally astute, often professionals and perfectly capable of

delving into complex thinking without getting all 'noodled' up, if you see my

point. Those who get easily confused will soon quit jyotish and move on to other

simpler forms of divination which requires less Uha-poh(a), so there is a

built-in safety mechanism in this pursuit ;-)

 

RR

 

 

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Well, in that case I am sorry RRji. I hope you would not mind addressing

> your message to the particular person. The context gets lost at times.

>

> However, I feel it is the same thing, when I say 'Judgment of age left to

> posterity',

> By age I meant the era or yug or time and everything to do with it,

> including humanity. Posterity is free to make its judgement about that age

> (on the basis of what it gets as evidence). Whether it is true or false, or

> real or fiction, who will know? Hence the examples, the other way round.

> Some farsighted people distorting history... for future generations.

>

> No issues though....

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> 2009/3/20 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani

>

> > Neelam jee,

> >

> > You interpreted what I wrote to one of the members here, differently than

> > was was my intention, which to quote myself was, " ...would that necessarily

> > be evidence of how humanity lived oh say few thousand years ago from when

> > these will be found...? "

> >

> > anyways...

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> > <%40>,

> > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini ji,

> > >

> > > That was a good point. Judgment of age left to posterity! Or if you have

> > the

> > > power, twist the tale and relax in the heavens, while posterity sings

> > your

> > > glory! Are we sure our ancients didn't know this simple trick! Remember

> > > `Time Capsule', the project meant to deify Madame. No one has a clue

> > about

> > > the fate of the mission, but Krishnaswamy, the PTC historian has been

> > > rediscovered and adorned with a Padma Shri this year. Those who are

> > > interested, may go fishing under the parliament house!! or wait till

> > > posterity.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear RR ji,

 

//However, the latter somehow implies a bit of insincerity or 'manipulated

evidence' on the part of one who left the evidence. I sincerely do not

believe that was the case or even a possibility when viewing ancient

texts.//

 

Sure Sir. My mention was only about the general literature and records, in

many forms, depicting the culture and history of different periods and

people. We know that most of the rulers of the past used to get their

'namas' written, which are taken as evidence of their period. Lack of

authentic, third party submissions does create a confusion in many aspects.

 

I have no doubt, whatsoever, about our great legacy of unparalleled wisdom

in the huge body of ancient texts and scriptures. While much of it seems to

have been lost with time, even juggling with remaining fragmented pieces has

enriched and nurtured us over the centuries.

 

Jyotish classics, for their brevity and compactness, could’ve been teacher’s

keys, details and examples withheld in his mind. I often wonder at these

high potency capsules of knowledge. Four shlokas of Karmjeeva Adhyaaya of

Brihat Jatak carried the potential to be exploded into all we need to know

about occupations and professions, even in these times!

 

I feel these are good times for astrology as a branch of knowledge. We only

need a broad-minded scientific approach. Having dispensed with manual and

time consuming calculations, we have a big deterrent out of our way. With

educated and technically qualified people taking interest and trying to find

(not fix!) some semblance of order in the chaos, we at least hope to sort

out the logic part. Regarding the other part, well Brahma ji will always

hold the exclusive rights of distribution!!

 

Thanks and regards

Neelam

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam jee,

 

When you are right, you are right! Particularly about GOD -- there can only be

ONE or else there would be confusion, for sure!

 

It is so reassuring and good to see logical, level-headed scientists embracing

Jyotish as has been happening over recent years, finally!

 

Kind regards,

 

Rohiniranjan

 

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear RR ji,

>

> //However, the latter somehow implies a bit of insincerity or 'manipulated

> evidence' on the part of one who left the evidence. I sincerely do not

> believe that was the case or even a possibility when viewing ancient

> texts.//

>

> Sure Sir. My mention was only about the general literature and records, in

> many forms, depicting the culture and history of different periods and

> people. We know that most of the rulers of the past used to get their

> 'namas' written, which are taken as evidence of their period. Lack of

> authentic, third party submissions does create a confusion in many aspects.

>

> I have no doubt, whatsoever, about our great legacy of unparalleled wisdom

> in the huge body of ancient texts and scriptures. While much of it seems to

> have been lost with time, even juggling with remaining fragmented pieces has

> enriched and nurtured us over the centuries.

>

> Jyotish classics, for their brevity and compactness, could've been teacher's

> keys, details and examples withheld in his mind. I often wonder at these

> high potency capsules of knowledge. Four shlokas of Karmjeeva Adhyaaya of

> Brihat Jatak carried the potential to be exploded into all we need to know

> about occupations and professions, even in these times!

>

> I feel these are good times for astrology as a branch of knowledge. We only

> need a broad-minded scientific approach. Having dispensed with manual and

> time consuming calculations, we have a big deterrent out of our way. With

> educated and technically qualified people taking interest and trying to find

> (not fix!) some semblance of order in the chaos, we at least hope to sort

> out the logic part. Regarding the other part, well Brahma ji will always

> hold the exclusive rights of distribution!!

>

> Thanks and regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Marg,

 

There are several stories about Urvasi in the vedic literature. But there is

one story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam which peaked my interest and led me to

believe that this story is about the male physiology and psyche. The story is

as follows (taken from a website):

 

" A legend in the Vishnu Purana represents Vasishtha as being requested by Nimi,

a son of Ikshwaku, to officiate at a sacrifice which was to last for a thousand

years. The sage pleaded a prior engagement to Indra for five hundred years, but

offered to come at the end of that period. The king made no remark, and

Vasishtha, taking silence as assent, returned as he had proposed. He then found

that Nimi had engaged the Rishi Gautama to perform the sacrifice, and this so

angered him that he cursed the king to lose his corporeal form. Nimi retorted

the curse, and in consequence " the vigour of Vasishtha entered into the vigour

of Mitra and Varuna. Vasishtha, however, received from them another body when

their seed had fallen from them at the sight of Urvasi. "

 

The Shrimad Bhagavatam stated that the " seed " was placed in a clay pot from

which Vasishtha was reborn.

 

From this story, I've come to conclusion that the writers were encoding a

message for posterity to unravel, aside from the apparent story line. The story

appears to be stating that there are certain times when the male physiology is

producing the strongest semen as part of the male hormonal cycle. At this

particular time, the semen will produce the best offspring when planted in the

vagina, the clay pot.

 

What is the best time? We can attemt to deduce this by interpreting the

symbolisms used.

 

1. Mitra and Varuna represents the dieties for the waters. In astrological

terms, they could represent the evening or night time.

 

The two dieties could mean the hour of two o'clock in the morning.

 

2. Urvasi, the beautiful apsara, is the inspiration for the desire to copulate.

In the table of nakshatras, the syllable " ur " is allocated to the third pada of

Krittika nakshatra. Thus, in astrological terms, the transit of the Moon in

this pada should be the expected time that Urvasi would appear. This would tell

us the specific day to watch for the apsara.

 

However, we are told that Urvasi is very hard to spot and that she only appears

once a year.

 

3. The clay pot could also represent the rashi of Kumbha, symbolized as the

water bearer with a clay jug. Thus, we can surmise that the transit of the Sun

in this rashi would give us the month of Urvasi's appearance.

 

Thus, we can assume that for this year, Urvasi should have been seen on March 2,

2009 at the hour of 2 AM worldwide.

 

By obtaininig this date, the astrologer can recommend when the male can sow his

seed into his wife's womb to beget the best offspring. For those who are

willing to use in vitro fertilization, this would be the best time to perform

the seeding process in a petri dish or test tube.

 

In the ancient times, they did not have the modern technology to perform in

vitro fertilization. But it appears that they had the technology to time the

sexual intercourse with their partners to beget children.

 

So, this is how I interpreted the story. You and the other forum members may

have other ideas. Please, let us know what you think.

 

Regards,

 

JR

 

PS

 

On a personal note, I kept a close watch on what happened on that day. I found

that I dreamt on that night of a beautiful young woman with long wavy light

brown hair. Was she the apsara of the ancient vedic times? Or, was it just my

fascination?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John

> I haven't come across the story of Urvasi and would appreciate you telling how

it links to IVF treatments,

> thanks

> kind regards

> M

> -

> John

>

> Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:45 AM

> Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

>

>

> Namaste Rohini Ranjan,

>

> I'm glad that you appreciate the proposed method of selecting the apsara

planet. From my vantage point, this method is part of the messages encoded by

the writers of the vedic texts. It is up to us to understand and apply the

messages in real life. The more one finds these encoded messages, the more one

appreciates the wisdom of the ancient seers.

>

> There is actually more to this apsara story than meets the eye. For

instance, most of us here are probably familiar with the story of Urvasi, the

apsara, and the rishis who caught a glimpse of her. In my opinion, this story is

about an ancient method of " in vitro " fertilization. If anyone is interested, we

can discuss this further.

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

> , " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > Neelam ji,

> >

> > Apart from the pretty difficult matter of the correct birthtime of Bill

who 'rose again after each fall', which is why I refrained from naming him as an

example -- there is another matter, if I may suggest.

> >

> > In both situations most assume that Monica or Norma were the Apsaraas!

However, aren't we all being a bit presumptive there? Apsaraas, if I understand

correctly, wilfully entice males for testing or distracting them on purpose, at

least in mythology. But were these two women really setting out to entice

Kennedy or Clinton, on purpose? I suppose the real answer would only be known to

them.

> >

> > Did we see an example of how society immediately assumes that it was the

beautiful and attractive woman who was laying a trap for the 'powerful' monarch?

Hence deserving of the title of Apsaraa!

> >

> > I do not know...! But it seems that the astrological shoe fits, as John

informed us, in both cases :-)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Another set may be added in the same context:

> > >

> > > Bill Clinton

> > > Hillary Clinton

> > > Monica Lewinsky

> > >

> > >

> > > 2009/3/16 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@>

> > >

> > > > Three characters:

> > > >

> > > > John F. Kennedy

> > > > Jacqueline K. Onassis

> > > > Marilyn Monroe

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi John

Thank you for taking the time to write that for me and explain the imagery.

It is intriquing that ''another body'' was obtained after the seed had fallen,

and I understand now why you say this story does indicate other forms of

conception than normal union.

What is unusual is that while storing seed for future fertilistation is often

seen as a modern day threat to men's role in perpetuation of the species, this

story doesn't indicate a female womb for Vasishtha's gestation period, unless,

as you say we count the clay pot as indicating this.

On a metaphysical level, there seems also to be a hint of an ephemeral being

gaining a corporeal body as a means of incarnating, so the clay pot becomes a

metaphor conveying the idea of a spiritual form gaining birth in a physical

body-the clay pot. Immaculate conception no less:-)

Perhaps the ancients were more advanced in IVF than we realise<grin> I enjoyed

reading the way you have interpreted it also, and how nice that the story gave

rise to an apsaraas encounter for you, even if only in your dreams.....but was

it only a dream......

thanks for sharing that

M

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Marg,

 

There are several stories about Urvasi in the vedic literature. But there is one

story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam which peaked my interest and led me to believe

that this story is about the male physiology and psyche. The story is as follows

(taken from a website):

 

" A legend in the Vishnu Purana represents Vasishtha as being requested by Nimi,

a son of Ikshwaku, to officiate at a sacrifice which was to last for a thousand

years. The sage pleaded a prior engagement to Indra for five hundred years, but

offered to come at the end of that period. The king made no remark, and

Vasishtha, taking silence as assent, returned as he had proposed. He then found

that Nimi had engaged the Rishi Gautama to perform the sacrifice, and this so

angered him that he cursed the king to lose his corporeal form. Nimi retorted

the curse, and in consequence " the vigour of Vasishtha entered into the vigour

of Mitra and Varuna. Vasishtha, however, received from them another body when

their seed had fallen from them at the sight of Urvasi. "

 

The Shrimad Bhagavatam stated that the " seed " was placed in a clay pot from

which Vasishtha was reborn.

 

From this story, I've come to conclusion that the writers were encoding a

message for posterity to unravel, aside from the apparent story line. The story

appears to be stating that there are certain times when the male physiology is

producing the strongest semen as part of the male hormonal cycle. At this

particular time, the semen will produce the best offspring when planted in the

vagina, the clay pot.

 

What is the best time? We can attemt to deduce this by interpreting the

symbolisms used.

 

1. Mitra and Varuna represents the dieties for the waters. In astrological

terms, they could represent the evening or night time.

 

The two dieties could mean the hour of two o'clock in the morning.

 

2. Urvasi, the beautiful apsara, is the inspiration for the desire to copulate.

In the table of nakshatras, the syllable " ur " is allocated to the third pada of

Krittika nakshatra. Thus, in astrological terms, the transit of the Moon in this

pada should be the expected time that Urvasi would appear. This would tell us

the specific day to watch for the apsara.

 

However, we are told that Urvasi is very hard to spot and that she only appears

once a year.

 

3. The clay pot could also represent the rashi of Kumbha, symbolized as the

water bearer with a clay jug. Thus, we can surmise that the transit of the Sun

in this rashi would give us the month of Urvasi's appearance.

 

Thus, we can assume that for this year, Urvasi should have been seen on March 2,

2009 at the hour of 2 AM worldwide.

 

By obtaininig this date, the astrologer can recommend when the male can sow his

seed into his wife's womb to beget the best offspring. For those who are willing

to use in vitro fertilization, this would be the best time to perform the

seeding process in a petri dish or test tube.

 

In the ancient times, they did not have the modern technology to perform in

vitro fertilization. But it appears that they had the technology to time the

sexual intercourse with their partners to beget children.

 

So, this is how I interpreted the story. You and the other forum members may

have other ideas. Please, let us know what you think.

 

Regards,

 

JR

 

PS

 

On a personal note, I kept a close watch on what happened on that day. I found

that I dreamt on that night of a beautiful young woman with long wavy light

brown hair. Was she the apsara of the ancient vedic times? Or, was it just my

fascination?

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John

> I haven't come across the story of Urvasi and would appreciate you telling how

it links to IVF treatments,

> thanks

> kind regards

> M

> -

> John

>

> Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:45 AM

> Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

>

>

> Namaste Rohini Ranjan,

>

> I'm glad that you appreciate the proposed method of selecting the apsara

planet. From my vantage point, this method is part of the messages encoded by

the writers of the vedic texts. It is up to us to understand and apply the

messages in real life. The more one finds these encoded messages, the more one

appreciates the wisdom of the ancient seers.

>

> There is actually more to this apsara story than meets the eye. For instance,

most of us here are probably familiar with the story of Urvasi, the apsara, and

the rishis who caught a glimpse of her. In my opinion, this story is about an

ancient method of " in vitro " fertilization. If anyone is interested, we can

discuss this further.

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

> , " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > Neelam ji,

> >

> > Apart from the pretty difficult matter of the correct birthtime of Bill who

'rose again after each fall', which is why I refrained from naming him as an

example -- there is another matter, if I may suggest.

> >

> > In both situations most assume that Monica or Norma were the Apsaraas!

However, aren't we all being a bit presumptive there? Apsaraas, if I understand

correctly, wilfully entice males for testing or distracting them on purpose, at

least in mythology. But were these two women really setting out to entice

Kennedy or Clinton, on purpose? I suppose the real answer would only be known to

them.

> >

> > Did we see an example of how society immediately assumes that it was the

beautiful and attractive woman who was laying a trap for the 'powerful' monarch?

Hence deserving of the title of Apsaraa!

> >

> > I do not know...! But it seems that the astrological shoe fits, as John

informed us, in both cases :-)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Another set may be added in the same context:

> > >

> > > Bill Clinton

> > > Hillary Clinton

> > > Monica Lewinsky

> > >

> > >

> > > 2009/3/16 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@>

> > >

> > > > Three characters:

> > > >

> > > > John F. Kennedy

> > > > Jacqueline K. Onassis

> > > > Marilyn Monroe

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

Am not commenting on the episode of Srimad Bhagavatam presented here as

to the authenticity of the same, due to paucity of time and efforts for

finding out the validity of the same, but commenting on other points.

 

We have references in the ancient texts including astrology, as to when

must be the proper time to have a sexual intercourse to beget a worthy

offspring . Probably a study of the Muhurtha shastras would save us the

trouble of speculation.

 

The ancients were very much advanced in fertilisation areas which we can

find references of, very much in many scriptures, where even a mantra or

a focused thought (Contemplation), or a invocation could result in child

bearing, without having to go with the present day physical union of two

bodies in order to copulate.

 

Urvashi is not a ordinary lady or beauty queen to appear in some mortals

dream just casually. She has better work to do. She is a lady meant for

the Gods, and none of us are even proper human beings.

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John

> Thank you for taking the time to write that for me and explain the

imagery.

> It is intriquing that ''another body'' was obtained after the seed had

fallen, and I understand now why you say this story does indicate other

forms of conception than normal union.

> What is unusual is that while storing seed for future fertilistation

is often seen as a modern day threat to men's role in perpetuation of

the species, this story doesn't indicate a female womb for Vasishtha's

gestation period, unless, as you say we count the clay pot as indicating

this.

> On a metaphysical level, there seems also to be a hint of an ephemeral

being gaining a corporeal body as a means of incarnating, so the clay

pot becomes a metaphor conveying the idea of a spiritual form gaining

birth in a physical body-the clay pot. Immaculate conception no less:-)

> Perhaps the ancients were more advanced in IVF than we realise<grin> I

enjoyed reading the way you have interpreted it also, and how nice that

the story gave rise to an apsaraas encounter for you, even if only in

your dreams.....but was it only a dream......

> thanks for sharing that

> M

>

>

>

>

>

Namaste Marg,

>

> There are several stories about Urvasi in the vedic literature. But

there is one story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam which peaked my interest

and led me to believe that this story is about the male physiology and

psyche. The story is as follows (taken from a website):

>

> " A legend in the Vishnu Purana represents Vasishtha as being requested

by Nimi, a son of Ikshwaku, to officiate at a sacrifice which was to

last for a thousand years. The sage pleaded a prior engagement to Indra

for five hundred years, but offered to come at the end of that period.

The king made no remark, and Vasishtha, taking silence as assent,

returned as he had proposed. He then found that Nimi had engaged the

Rishi Gautama to perform the sacrifice, and this so angered him that he

cursed the king to lose his corporeal form. Nimi retorted the curse, and

in consequence " the vigour of Vasishtha entered into the vigour of Mitra

and Varuna. Vasishtha, however, received from them another body when

their seed had fallen from them at the sight of Urvasi. "

>

> The Shrimad Bhagavatam stated that the " seed " was placed in a clay pot

from which Vasishtha was reborn.

>

> From this story, I've come to conclusion that the writers were

encoding a message for posterity to unravel, aside from the apparent

story line. The story appears to be stating that there are certain times

when the male physiology is producing the strongest semen as part of the

male hormonal cycle. At this particular time, the semen will produce the

best offspring when planted in the vagina, the clay pot.

>

> What is the best time? We can attemt to deduce this by interpreting

the symbolisms used.

>

> 1. Mitra and Varuna represents the dieties for the waters. In

astrological terms, they could represent the evening or night time.

>

> The two dieties could mean the hour of two o'clock in the morning.

>

> 2. Urvasi, the beautiful apsara, is the inspiration for the desire to

copulate. In the table of nakshatras, the syllable " ur " is allocated to

the third pada of Krittika nakshatra. Thus, in astrological terms, the

transit of the Moon in this pada should be the expected time that Urvasi

would appear. This would tell us the specific day to watch for the

apsara.

>

> However, we are told that Urvasi is very hard to spot and that she

only appears once a year.

>

> 3. The clay pot could also represent the rashi of Kumbha, symbolized

as the water bearer with a clay jug. Thus, we can surmise that the

transit of the Sun in this rashi would give us the month of Urvasi's

appearance.

>

> Thus, we can assume that for this year, Urvasi should have been seen

on March 2, 2009 at the hour of 2 AM worldwide.

>

> By obtaininig this date, the astrologer can recommend when the male

can sow his seed into his wife's womb to beget the best offspring. For

those who are willing to use in vitro fertilization, this would be the

best time to perform the seeding process in a petri dish or test tube.

>

> In the ancient times, they did not have the modern technology to

perform in vitro fertilization. But it appears that they had the

technology to time the sexual intercourse with their partners to beget

children.

>

> So, this is how I interpreted the story. You and the other forum

members may have other ideas. Please, let us know what you think.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

> PS

>

> On a personal note, I kept a close watch on what happened on that day.

I found that I dreamt on that night of a beautiful young woman with long

wavy light brown hair. Was she the apsara of the ancient vedic times?

Or, was it just my fascination?

>

> , " Marg " margie9@ wrote:

> >

> > Hi John

> > I haven't come across the story of Urvasi and would appreciate you

telling how it links to IVF treatments,

> > thanks

> > kind regards

> > M

> > -

> > John

> >

> > Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:45 AM

> > Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American

Tale of Camelot!

> >

> >

> > Namaste Rohini Ranjan,

> >

> > I'm glad that you appreciate the proposed method of selecting the

apsara planet. From my vantage point, this method is part of the

messages encoded by the writers of the vedic texts. It is up to us to

understand and apply the messages in real life. The more one finds these

encoded messages, the more one appreciates the wisdom of the ancient

seers.

> >

> > There is actually more to this apsara story than meets the eye. For

instance, most of us here are probably familiar with the story of

Urvasi, the apsara, and the rishis who caught a glimpse of her. In my

opinion, this story is about an ancient method of " in vitro "

fertilization. If anyone is interested, we can discuss this further.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > John R.

> >

> > , " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Neelam ji,

> > >

> > > Apart from the pretty difficult matter of the correct birthtime of

Bill who 'rose again after each fall', which is why I refrained from

naming him as an example -- there is another matter, if I may suggest.

> > >

> > > In both situations most assume that Monica or Norma were the

Apsaraas! However, aren't we all being a bit presumptive there?

Apsaraas, if I understand correctly, wilfully entice males for testing

or distracting them on purpose, at least in mythology. But were these

two women really setting out to entice Kennedy or Clinton, on purpose? I

suppose the real answer would only be known to them.

> > >

> > > Did we see an example of how society immediately assumes that it

was the beautiful and attractive woman who was laying a trap for the

'powerful' monarch? Hence deserving of the title of Apsaraa!

> > >

> > > I do not know...! But it seems that the astrological shoe fits, as

John informed us, in both cases :-)

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Another set may be added in the same context:

> > > >

> > > > Bill Clinton

> > > > Hillary Clinton

> > > > Monica Lewinsky

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2009/3/16 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@>

> > > >

> > > > > Three characters:

> > > > >

> > > > > John F. Kennedy

> > > > > Jacqueline K. Onassis

> > > > > Marilyn Monroe

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Marg,

 

My responses to your comments are shown below:

 

 

> It is intriquing that ''another body'' was obtained after the seed had fallen,

and I understand now why you say this story does indicate other forms of

conception than normal union.

> What is unusual is that while storing seed for future fertilistation is often

seen as a modern day threat to men's role in perpetuation of the species, this

story doesn't indicate a female womb for Vasishtha's gestation period, unless,

as you say we count the clay pot as indicating this.

 

There are other stories that are similar to this one in the vedic literature.

Drona is said to have been conceived in the same manner. He in fact boasted

that he was not born of a human mother.

 

Then, in another story, we find another reference to a clay pot carried by the

wife of Jamadagni, one of the saptarishis in the ancient past. According to the

story, this clay pot melted in the river when the wife saw a handsome Gandharva

while fetching water for the family. For this act, Jamadagni felt betrayed and

insulted that his wife should look at another man with lust. Thus, he ordered

his son Parasurama to kill his wife, along with his other sons who refused to

lay hands on their mother.

 

Nonetheless, because of Parasurama's obedience, Jamadagni allowed his wife and

other sons to be resurrected from their death.

 

So, the imagery for the clay pot is rather puzzling to say the least.

 

 

 

> On a metaphysical level, there seems also to be a hint of an ephemeral being

gaining a corporeal body as a means of incarnating, so the clay pot becomes a

metaphor conveying the idea of a spiritual form gaining birth in a physical

body-the clay pot. Immaculate conception no less:-)

 

At the present time, no one has the knowledge to do this. However, a Shaivite

guru who taught in his Kauai ashram wrote a book called, " The Lemurian Scrolls " .

In this book, he wrote of beings from the Pleaides who had the technology for

incarnating into earth from their spiritual bodies. It's a fascinating story.

You should read it.

 

> Perhaps the ancients were more advanced in IVF than we realise<grin>

 

Very true. We may be able to understand this story when we have the technology

to replicate this apparent magical conception method.

 

JR

[Guest guest]

Namaste Bhaskar,

 

My comments to your response are shown below:

 

>

> Am not commenting on the episode of Srimad Bhagavatam presented here as

> to the authenticity of the same, due to paucity of time and efforts for

> finding out the validity of the same, but commenting on other points.

 

The Vaishnavas consider the Shrimad Bhagavatam to be the gospel of truth. They

may have something to say about your opinion.

 

 

 

> We have references in the ancient texts including astrology, as to when

> must be the proper time to have a sexual intercourse to beget a worthy

> offspring . Probably a study of the Muhurtha shastras would save us the

> trouble of speculation.

 

I agree with you. But the story beign discussed appears to send a message of a

special kind of conception which leads to an unusual offspring. Specifically,

Vasishta must have been an unusual man of intelligence since he is considered to

be one of the saptarishis. Also, Dronacharya is considered to have unusual

skills in archery and other martial arts.

 

 

> The ancients were very much advanced in fertilisation areas which we can

> find references of, very much in many scriptures, where even a mantra or

> a focused thought (Contemplation), or a invocation could result in child

> bearing, without having to go with the present day physical union of two

> bodies in order to copulate.

 

Can you specify the vedic text where this type of human reproduction is

discussed? I am familiar with the story that Brahma was born out of the lotus

stem that came out of Vishnu's belly. We have also read that Brahma has created

many of his offsprings through the mind alone.

 

 

> Urvashi is not a ordinary lady or beauty queen to appear in some mortals

> dream just casually. She has better work to do. She is a lady meant for

> the Gods, and none of us are even proper human beings.

 

Maybe so. But in practical terms these apsaras can manifest in our daily lives

in the forms of human beings as discussed in the case of JFK and Clinton.

 

In other words, the story here is a description of the human physiological

characteristics, or is part of the human condition.

 

Regards,

 

JR

[Guest guest]

, " John " <jr_esq wrote:

>

> ... But in practical terms these apsaras can manifest in our daily lives in

the forms of human beings as discussed in the case of JFK and Clinton.

> ...

 

 

And also in the form of other temptations. Money has been mentioned here, as

well as power, fame,

 

The wise Greeks, if I am not mistaken, called them " sirens " ! Now we all know

what a SIREN in modern context means! When we are driving on a street or are

unfortunate to live in a war-zone with air-raid scares!

[Guest guest]

Namaste John,

 

The Vaishnavas consider the Srimad Bhagvatam as the Gospel of truth. You

are absolute right Sir. I too am a Vaishnava and a strict one with

regards to references to religious scriptures. . My opinion is not on

the Srimad Bhagvatam, but on stories taken from Bhagvatham, and then

corrupted with additions and substractions before being presented " As it

is " . This twisting of the stories from the great Epics is something

which if one opposes, then would meet consensus from all quarters.

 

If Vaishistha ji is considered to be as a Saptarishi then it is but

understood that such Great personalities possessed super intelligences,

because they have the power to create Universes. This is a known fact

about their powers , just like its a known fact that The Sun sheds Light

and need not be mouthed. As small children reading the Amar Chitra Katha

comics we knew that Drona was a great Archer. Such things are of common

knowledge here in india, and one need not be taught about this, but

people just know this here, due to their upbringing and during their

childhood when such stories from the Ramayana and the Mahabharata are

brought upon them many times invariably again and again from the elders.

 

We do not have to go much far to know how children could be created

through invocations or without copulations in those times through

spiritually highly evolved personas. You may just read the story of Mata

Kunti and her children in the great epic Mahabharata. Or You may read

the story of how Lord Ganesha was born (created). There are hundreds of

such instances in our texts.

 

Apsaras are not ordinary species but very elevated form of existences,

who give company to the Gods. The apsaras are to be respected because we

are not men enough to be their partners , whether in fantasy or in real.

So no question of their physical manifestation for our pleasure, unless

we too form a part of the Gods Court. Gandharvas are seperate species

who come down on Earth more often and much more liable to stray and get

punished. We have few gandharvas in our midst who have been born as

human, but I am not allowed to take their names. This knowledge is

secret.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " John " <jr_esq wrote:

>

> Namaste Bhaskar,

>

> My comments to your response are shown below:

>

> >

> > Am not commenting on the episode of Srimad Bhagavatam presented here

as

> > to the authenticity of the same, due to paucity of time and efforts

for

> > finding out the validity of the same, but commenting on other

points.

>

> The Vaishnavas consider the Shrimad Bhagavatam to be the gospel of

truth. They may have something to say about your opinion.

>

>

>

> > We have references in the ancient texts including astrology, as to

when

> > must be the proper time to have a sexual intercourse to beget a

worthy

> > offspring . Probably a study of the Muhurtha shastras would save us

the

> > trouble of speculation.

>

> I agree with you. But the story beign discussed appears to send a

message of a special kind of conception which leads to an unusual

offspring. Specifically, Vasishta must have been an unusual man of

intelligence since he is considered to be one of the saptarishis. Also,

Dronacharya is considered to have unusual skills in archery and other

martial arts.

>

>

> > The ancients were very much advanced in fertilisation areas which we

can

> > find references of, very much in many scriptures, where even a

mantra or

> > a focused thought (Contemplation), or a invocation could result in

child

> > bearing, without having to go with the present day physical union of

two

> > bodies in order to copulate.

>

> Can you specify the vedic text where this type of human reproduction

is discussed? I am familiar with the story that Brahma was born out of

the lotus stem that came out of Vishnu's belly. We have also read that

Brahma has created many of his offsprings through the mind alone.

>

>

> > Urvashi is not a ordinary lady or beauty queen to appear in some

mortals

> > dream just casually. She has better work to do. She is a lady meant

for

> > the Gods, and none of us are even proper human beings.

>

> Maybe so. But in practical terms these apsaras can manifest in our

daily lives in the forms of human beings as discussed in the case of JFK

and Clinton.

>

> In other words, the story here is a description of the human

physiological characteristics, or is part of the human condition.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

[Guest guest]

" Vigour of Sage Vashistha "

 

" Drona boasting of his not born through a human "

 

" SaptaRishi Jamadagnis wife having lust "

 

" Urvashi coming in dreams and common talks about her "

 

" Semen and the clay Pot "

 

Dear Mr. John,

 

I do not understand what is being tried to present here. Why are we

taking only those references from the ancient texts where the Great Ones

are shown in bad light ? Dont we have something better and positive to

talk about ? Are we finished reading the good part of these texts ? Why

are we bordering just on sex, conception, semen and concieving parts ?

What are we trying to prove, learn, teach or gain from this ? And why

just talk about the Hindu texts Mr John. Dont we have such incidences

and references in the other religious texts ? Are they scarce of

miracles or free from lust, sex and miracles ? How can Virgin Mary have

a son Jesus if Mary was Virgin ?

 

The clay pot is also used when a person goes to the burning Ghats. The

clay pot was also used to store wine in the old ages. The clay pot is

still used to store water even in these days. The clay pot is used at

time of Pooja and worship at festivals. So why not talk abot the clay

pot with reference to these, rather in a derogatory manner.

 

I do not see any symbolic truth being presented but just derogatory

references.

 

About reading " " The Lemurian Scrolls " . We have our own book

" Autobiography of a Yogi " by Paramhansa Yogananda which is a true story,

and which shows how this transmutation from atmosphere to a human body

and back, can be done by spiritually elevated beings.

 

Even if we learn all the Muhurthas for selection of proper time to give

birth to a offspring, if we are not destined to have good children, then

we will never have.

 

I request you to please pick up positive references from the texts and

let us discuss something which can really help all of us.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

>

> Namaste John,

>

> The Vaishnavas consider the Srimad Bhagvatam as the Gospel of truth.

You

> are absolute right Sir. I too am a Vaishnava and a strict one with

> regards to references to religious scriptures. . My opinion is not on

> the Srimad Bhagvatam, but on stories taken from Bhagvatham, and then

> corrupted with additions and substractions before being presented " As

it

> is " . This twisting of the stories from the great Epics is something

> which if one opposes, then would meet consensus from all quarters.

>

> If Vaishistha ji is considered to be as a Saptarishi then it is but

> understood that such Great personalities possessed super

intelligences,

> because they have the power to create Universes. This is a known fact

> about their powers , just like its a known fact that The Sun sheds

Light

> and need not be mouthed. As small children reading the Amar Chitra

Katha

> comics we knew that Drona was a great Archer. Such things are of

common

> knowledge here in india, and one need not be taught about this, but

> people just know this here, due to their upbringing and during their

> childhood when such stories from the Ramayana and the Mahabharata are

> brought upon them many times invariably again and again from the

elders.

>

> We do not have to go much far to know how children could be created

> through invocations or without copulations in those times through

> spiritually highly evolved personas. You may just read the story of

Mata

> Kunti and her children in the great epic Mahabharata. Or You may read

> the story of how Lord Ganesha was born (created). There are hundreds

of

> such instances in our texts.

>

> Apsaras are not ordinary species but very elevated form of existences,

> who give company to the Gods. The apsaras are to be respected because

we

> are not men enough to be their partners , whether in fantasy or in

real.

> So no question of their physical manifestation for our pleasure,

unless

> we too form a part of the Gods Court. Gandharvas are seperate species

> who come down on Earth more often and much more liable to stray and

get

> punished. We have few gandharvas in our midst who have been born as

> human, but I am not allowed to take their names. This knowledge is

> secret.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

> , " John " jr_esq@ wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Bhaskar,

> >

> > My comments to your response are shown below:

> >

> > >

> > > Am not commenting on the episode of Srimad Bhagavatam presented

here

> as

> > > to the authenticity of the same, due to paucity of time and

efforts

> for

> > > finding out the validity of the same, but commenting on other

> points.

> >

> > The Vaishnavas consider the Shrimad Bhagavatam to be the gospel of

> truth. They may have something to say about your opinion.

> >

> >

> >

> > > We have references in the ancient texts including astrology, as to

> when

> > > must be the proper time to have a sexual intercourse to beget a

> worthy

> > > offspring . Probably a study of the Muhurtha shastras would save

us

> the

> > > trouble of speculation.

> >

> > I agree with you. But the story beign discussed appears to send a

> message of a special kind of conception which leads to an unusual

> offspring. Specifically, Vasishta must have been an unusual man of

> intelligence since he is considered to be one of the saptarishis.

Also,

> Dronacharya is considered to have unusual skills in archery and other

> martial arts.

> >

> >

> > > The ancients were very much advanced in fertilisation areas which

we

> can

> > > find references of, very much in many scriptures, where even a

> mantra or

> > > a focused thought (Contemplation), or a invocation could result in

> child

> > > bearing, without having to go with the present day physical union

of

> two

> > > bodies in order to copulate.

> >

> > Can you specify the vedic text where this type of human reproduction

> is discussed? I am familiar with the story that Brahma was born out of

> the lotus stem that came out of Vishnu's belly. We have also read that

> Brahma has created many of his offsprings through the mind alone.

> >

> >

> > > Urvashi is not a ordinary lady or beauty queen to appear in some

> mortals

> > > dream just casually. She has better work to do. She is a lady

meant

> for

> > > the Gods, and none of us are even proper human beings.

> >

> > Maybe so. But in practical terms these apsaras can manifest in our

> daily lives in the forms of human beings as discussed in the case of

JFK

> and Clinton.

> >

> > In other words, the story here is a description of the human

> physiological characteristics, or is part of the human condition.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > JR

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear John,

 

//By obtaining this date, the astrologer can recommend when the male can sow

his seed into his wife's womb to beget the best offspring. For those who are

willing to use in vitro fertilization, this would be the best time to

perform the seeding process in a petri dish or test tube.//

Are you really serious!!

 

The Puranas have thousands of stories of Gods and demi gods. Puranas are not

vedic literature, they were post-vedic extensions of knowledge to be

imparted to householders and common man in the form of stories, Vedas being

higher knowledge, were veiled and symbolic and could not be taught to all.

Nonetheless, Puranas also carried spiritual symbolism which could be

explained only by the masters. The modern English translations cannot do

justice to the real imagery in these texts, especially in their spiritual

and esoteric purport. Some translations are badly distorted and misleading

versions.

 

We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these stories in

Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some stories

about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and significations

of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have dedicated

astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can be

referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never advised in

any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

 

Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by lotus. She is

naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and Varuna). In

every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two sages, two

gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas (snakes) ride

on the sun’s chariot to accompany him.

 

The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during rains.

After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to call upon

the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain and the

seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the raising

of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god. In some versions, it is

agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the wife of

gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

 

In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have actually

been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons, sowing of

crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual sowing

in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing incongruous

conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

astrological tenets.

 

//In the ancient times, they did not have the modern technology to perform

in vitro fertilization.//

In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems and after 2

years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then handed over

to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated them

with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling container

for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

 

Regards

Neelam

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,

 

Have always appreciated your knowledge and renderation of same.

 

What you have mentioned, is the true representation of the allegories in

the pure sense, sans any corruption or slang linkage, nor any suggestion

to the base.

 

The clay pot now looks very much fresh and earthy, in the light of

knowledge shown by you. By the way this makes me remember the time of

the year when the ladies, especially who have not married, do the pooja

of " Ganvarja " , in the clay pot, and how the long Green sprouts grow in

the pot upwards and upwards, showing success of the young lady

worshipping.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

wrote:

>

> Dear John,

>

> //By obtaining this date, the astrologer can recommend when the male

can sow

> his seed into his wife's womb to beget the best offspring. For those

who are

> willing to use in vitro fertilization, this would be the best time to

> perform the seeding process in a petri dish or test tube.//

> Are you really serious!!

>

> The Puranas have thousands of stories of Gods and demi gods. Puranas

are not

> vedic literature, they were post-vedic extensions of knowledge to be

> imparted to householders and common man in the form of stories, Vedas

being

> higher knowledge, were veiled and symbolic and could not be taught to

all.

> Nonetheless, Puranas also carried spiritual symbolism which could be

> explained only by the masters. The modern English translations cannot

do

> justice to the real imagery in these texts, especially in their

spiritual

> and esoteric purport. Some translations are badly distorted and

misleading

> versions.

>

> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these

stories in

> Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some

stories

> about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and

significations

> of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have dedicated

> astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can be

> referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never advised

in

> any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

>

> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by lotus.

She is

> naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and

Varuna). In

> every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two sages,

two

> gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas (snakes)

ride

> on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

>

> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during

rains.

> After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to call

upon

> the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain and

the

> seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the

raising

> of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god. In some versions, it is

> agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the

wife of

> gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

>

> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have

actually

> been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons, sowing

of

> crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual

sowing

> in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing

incongruous

> conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> astrological tenets.

>

> //In the ancient times, they did not have the modern technology to

perform

> in vitro fertilization.//

> In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems and

after 2

> years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then handed

over

> to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated

them

> with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling

container

> for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Neelam,

 

My comments to your responses are as follows:

 

 

1.> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these stories in

> Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some stories

> about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and significations

> of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have dedicated

> astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can be

> referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never advised in

> any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

 

KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to astrological

principles. I personally have taken seminars from these respected jyotishis.

 

2.> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by lotus. She is

> naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and Varuna). In

> every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two sages, two

> gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas (snakes) ride

> on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

 

There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came from the

thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two apsaras.

According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.

 

3.> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during rains.

> After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to call upon

> the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain and the

> seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the raising

> of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god.

 

Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source of your

translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?

 

In the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the story about Urvasi is a bit different as noted in

the previous email. In the story, Vasishta was cursed and died. However, he

was reborn due to Mithra and Varuna's seed being sown in a clay pot after seeing

Urvasi. So, the circumstances are different and the interpretation could be

different.

 

4. In some versions, it is

> agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the wife of

> gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

 

I'm familiar with the Pururavas story. We discussed this earlier this week.

This is the basis of my proposed method of how to determine the apsara planet

for astrological analysis.

 

5.> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have actually

> been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons, sowing of

> crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual sowing

> in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing incongruous

> conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> astrological tenets.

 

Thank you for giving us this valuable background which helps us understand the

cultural context of your interpretation.

 

Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier, my jyotish teachers have encouraged their

students to do research of the vedic literature to supplement their knowledge of

jyotish in addition to the standard jyotish texts like those of Parasara and

Jaimini. I am not proposing to disregard the traditional jyotish methods.

 

6. > In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems and after 2

> years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then handed over

> to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated them

> with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling container

> for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

 

This is a fascinating story. I'll have to read this section of the Mahabharata

when I have the time.

 

You have given us an excellent analysis of these stories in the vedic

literature. You also provided us with the cultural background to these stories

which we are not familiar with here in the USA. For this reason, I have

requested forum members to make comments about my interpretation as an outside

observer of the information presented in the vedic literature.

 

Regards,

 

JR

[Guest guest]

Hi John

I'll look out for the Lemurian story, it sounds interesting. I do find these

stories are allegorical mostly, but are conveying profound truths and insights

the soul's progress and into physics and meta physics, and as you say we will

just have to await a time when our

science and technology catches up with knowledge of the sages.

On another level the meaning could be conveying the idea of spiritual forms

emanating from physical forms, as with the idea of ectoplasm referred to in many

psychic readings. Also, there are allusions to spirit forms taking on the

physical body during an accident where the original soul is traumatised out of

its 'clay pot' at time of heavy impact, leaving the body open to another soul to

enter? This kind of takeover is documented in many books including the

Paramahamsa stories, where we are told that the spirit can inhabit more than one

body at once. African lore has many such incidences, and 'zombie' stories abound

on that continent.

I think our science and technology has not and dare not touch this area of life,

and this is why we are having to wait until less taboo surrounds the spiritual

levels of existence before we can catch up with understanding the ancient

stories.

What is interesting about the clay pot metaphor is the fact that the bible

constantly refers to clay pots as well and in terms of breath being blown into

them in order to bring a human to life. However, this also has another

connotation which is an awakening not to physical life but to spiritual life.

The Hermes documents also allude to such situations ands contains many

astrological teachings as well

 

best wishes

M

 

 

 

 

 

-

John

Friday, March 27, 2009 11:46 PM

Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

 

 

Marg,

 

My responses to your comments are shown below:

 

> It is intriquing that ''another body'' was obtained after the seed had

fallen, and I understand now why you say this story does indicate other forms of

conception than normal union.

> What is unusual is that while storing seed for future fertilistation is

often seen as a modern day threat to men's role in perpetuation of the species,

this story doesn't indicate a female womb for Vasishtha's gestation period,

unless, as you say we count the clay pot as indicating this.

 

There are other stories that are similar to this one in the vedic literature.

Drona is said to have been conceived in the same manner. He in fact boasted that

he was not born of a human mother.

 

Then, in another story, we find another reference to a clay pot carried by the

wife of Jamadagni, one of the saptarishis in the ancient past. According to the

story, this clay pot melted in the river when the wife saw a handsome Gandharva

while fetching water for the family. For this act, Jamadagni felt betrayed and

insulted that his wife should look at another man with lust. Thus, he ordered

his son Parasurama to kill his wife, along with his other sons who refused to

lay hands on their mother.

 

Nonetheless, because of Parasurama's obedience, Jamadagni allowed his wife and

other sons to be resurrected from their death.

 

So, the imagery for the clay pot is rather puzzling to say the least.

 

> On a metaphysical level, there seems also to be a hint of an ephemeral being

gaining a corporeal body as a means of incarnating, so the clay pot becomes a

metaphor conveying the idea of a spiritual form gaining birth in a physical

body-the clay pot. Immaculate conception no less:-)

 

At the present time, no one has the knowledge to do this. However, a Shaivite

guru who taught in his Kauai ashram wrote a book called, " The Lemurian Scrolls " .

In this book, he wrote of beings from the Pleaides who had the technology for

incarnating into earth from their spiritual bodies. It's a fascinating story.

You should read it.

 

> Perhaps the ancients were more advanced in IVF than we realise<grin>

 

Very true. We may be able to understand this story when we have the technology

to replicate this apparent magical conception method.

 

JR

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji, John and all,

 

I know you (Bhaskar ji) understand the symbolism and imagery in these

stories. Most of us are sadly ignorant of their real import. It is thus

important to put these issues in correct prespective.

 

Some more clarifications for people who cannot lay their hands on authentic

sources.

 

Agriculture having been the mainstay of our economy for centuries, the lives

of more than half of Indians are closely linked to the swings of

agricultural activity that much of the traditions, beliefs and celebrations

that are still actively pursued in today’s urban centres have their origins

in rituals surrounding agricultural practices. Even now in most households,

the grains are sown in a clay pot (my mother would always insist on a kalash

shape only) before the actual the sowing in the fields started and the lady

of the house would be proud to have a good harvest at home, after which she

is confident of abundance and prosperity coming from a good yield from the

produce in the fields. This clay pot is installed in the centre/garbha of

the female deity drawn on the earth with flour and other symbolic items are

placed around her. Many Mithila paintings carry the symbols of this form

which is basically mother earth.

 

India is vast and exhibits significant geographical, climatic and soil-type

diversities, but the one common feature of Indian agriculture is its

dependence on the most unpredictable of nature’s elements:* the rains*!

 

There is either the autumn crop called kharif or the winter crop called

rabi. The kharif crop predominantly uses the moisture from the monsoon

rains. With the pre-monsoon showers, farmers perk up. They get the land

ready and await monsoons to sow their kharif crop. The time is around

June-early July. There are three distinct methods of cultivation, viz.. by

transplantation, by sowing broadcast, or by previous germination. The

adityas are worshipped and invoked to impregnate and prepare mother earth

for a good crop. Urvashi is symbolic of fertility and prosperity. Her

sighting is very important thus. The story is better understood in this

light.

 

The rabi crop is sown in November and harvested in April-May. The new year

is celebrated in most parts of India in mid April. It begins with freshly

harvested grain. This is the time when many festivals are celebrated

throughout the country and the ceremonial thanksgiving to Mother Earth is

seen all over.

 

In the context of story mentioned by John, I would say that firstly, the

story is not from Srimad Bhagvatam but Vishnu Puran. Secondly, the Vishnu

Puran version is very different and it is distorted beyond recognition in

this internet version. We are aware how certain elements have been attacking

our ancient heritage to distort or erode the huge knowledgebase and legacy

that has been enriching and nurturing us since time immemorial. Most of the

versions being circulated on the internet in the garb of vedic texts are not

authentic. For any serious work, we should only use the originals and

authentic translations (sadly missing!). Even when translations are

available, English has no equivalents for most of the phrases and words and

implied meaning is very different. We can see how ‘vigour’ and ‘vitality’

have been misconstrued. Internet is becoming the biggest supplier of scrap

and junk with an alarming speed in recycling and replication. All we get to

see is cemeteries and junkyards!!

So be careful.

 

*It is good to study and interpret our ancient texts, but we should never

interpret the interprtations!!

 

*Regards

Neelam*

*

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,

 

As usual, a good piece of write up by You.

 

// All we get to see is cemeteries and junkyards!! //

 

And I would like to add here - references to sex, abnormal births,

coitus, semen, impregnation and such rubbish talks and discussions

bordering on the base instincts, without realising the actual symbolism.

 

// It is good to study and interpret our ancient texts, but we should

never interpret the interprtations!! //

 

Right, because to interpret the interpretations we have to come to the

maturity levels of the interpreator, which is not so easy, and

understood just by understanding the meanings of the words written in a

particular language, but which carries many hidden meanings, which our

texts are heavily laden with , which needs a clearly disoriented mind,

disoriented from the rubbish we have just witnessed and which must be

into elevated thinking of the symbolism, both spiritual and material

which was actually intended by the writer.

 

Incidentally, today is the Pooja of the Earthern Pot with seeds sown,

and a day of Vrata for the unmarried Indian Girls who follow our Ancient

hindu culture.

 

regards and best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji, John and all,

>

> I know you (Bhaskar ji) understand the symbolism and imagery in these

> stories. Most of us are sadly ignorant of their real import. It is

thus

> important to put these issues in correct prespective.

>

> Some more clarifications for people who cannot lay their hands on

authentic

> sources.

>

> Agriculture having been the mainstay of our economy for centuries, the

lives

> of more than half of Indians are closely linked to the swings of

> agricultural activity that much of the traditions, beliefs and

celebrations

> that are still actively pursued in today's urban centres have

their origins

> in rituals surrounding agricultural practices. Even now in most

households,

> the grains are sown in a clay pot (my mother would always insist on a

kalash

> shape only) before the actual the sowing in the fields started and the

lady

> of the house would be proud to have a good harvest at home, after

which she

> is confident of abundance and prosperity coming from a good yield from

the

> produce in the fields. This clay pot is installed in the centre/garbha

of

> the female deity drawn on the earth with flour and other symbolic

items are

> placed around her. Many Mithila paintings carry the symbols of this

form

> which is basically mother earth.

>

> India is vast and exhibits significant geographical, climatic and

soil-type

> diversities, but the one common feature of Indian agriculture is its

> dependence on the most unpredictable of nature's elements:* the

rains*!

>

> There is either the autumn crop called kharif or the winter crop

called

> rabi. The kharif crop predominantly uses the moisture from the monsoon

> rains. With the pre-monsoon showers, farmers perk up. They get the

land

> ready and await monsoons to sow their kharif crop. The time is around

> June-early July. There are three distinct methods of cultivation,

viz.. by

> transplantation, by sowing broadcast, or by previous germination. The

> adityas are worshipped and invoked to impregnate and prepare mother

earth

> for a good crop. Urvashi is symbolic of fertility and prosperity. Her

> sighting is very important thus. The story is better understood in

this

> light.

>

> The rabi crop is sown in November and harvested in April-May. The new

year

> is celebrated in most parts of India in mid April. It begins with

freshly

> harvested grain. This is the time when many festivals are celebrated

> throughout the country and the ceremonial thanksgiving to Mother Earth

is

> seen all over.

>

> In the context of story mentioned by John, I would say that firstly,

the

> story is not from Srimad Bhagvatam but Vishnu Puran. Secondly, the

Vishnu

> Puran version is very different and it is distorted beyond recognition

in

> this internet version. We are aware how certain elements have been

attacking

> our ancient heritage to distort or erode the huge knowledgebase and

legacy

> that has been enriching and nurturing us since time immemorial. Most

of the

> versions being circulated on the internet in the garb of vedic texts

are not

> authentic. For any serious work, we should only use the originals and

> authentic translations (sadly missing!). Even when translations are

> available, English has no equivalents for most of the phrases and

words and

> implied meaning is very different. We can see how `vigour' and

`vitality'

> have been misconstrued. Internet is becoming the biggest supplier of

scrap

> and junk with an alarming speed in recycling and replication. All we

get to

> see is cemeteries and junkyards!!

> So be careful.

>

> *It is good to study and interpret our ancient texts, but we should

never

> interpret the interprtations!!

>

> *Regards

> Neelam*

> *

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji,

 

Thanks. Yes, in fact this festival is called Gangaur in Northern parts of

India, specially UP and Rajasthan.

 

Gangaur Pooja is performed on the third day of " Chait Navratri " by married

women seeking the fertility, abundance, health and wealth for their husbands

and families. A kalash or clay pot is symbolic of all that. 'Gan is a

synonym for lord Shiva and 'Gaur' or 'Gauri' for Goddess Parvati, the

consort of Lord Shiva and a symbol of conjugal bliss and marital

happiness. Gangaur

Festival also marks the end of winter and the coming of spring. Mists fade

away and the sun shines bright through a clear blue sky.

 

Best Regards

Neelam

 

 

2009/3/29 Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

 

>

> Dear Neelamji,

>

> As usual, a good piece of write up by You.

>

> // All we get to see is cemeteries and junkyards!! //

>

> And I would like to add here - references to sex, abnormal births,

> coitus, semen, impregnation and such rubbish talks and discussions

> bordering on the base instincts, without realising the actual symbolism.

>

> // It is good to study and interpret our ancient texts, but we should

> never interpret the interprtations!! //

>

> Right, because to interpret the interpretations we have to come to the

> maturity levels of the interpreator, which is not so easy, and

> understood just by understanding the meanings of the words written in a

> particular language, but which carries many hidden meanings, which our

> texts are heavily laden with , which needs a clearly disoriented mind,

> disoriented from the rubbish we have just witnessed and which must be

> into elevated thinking of the symbolism, both spiritual and material

> which was actually intended by the writer.

>

> Incidentally, today is the Pooja of the Earthern Pot with seeds sown,

> and a day of Vrata for the unmarried Indian Girls who follow our Ancient

> hindu culture.

>

> regards and best wishes,

>

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> <%40>,

> neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji, John and all,

> >

> > I know you (Bhaskar ji) understand the symbolism and imagery in these

> > stories. Most of us are sadly ignorant of their real import. It is

> thus

> > important to put these issues in correct prespective.

> >

> > Some more clarifications for people who cannot lay their hands on

> authentic

> > sources.

> >

> > Agriculture having been the mainstay of our economy for centuries, the

> lives

> > of more than half of Indians are closely linked to the swings of

> > agricultural activity that much of the traditions, beliefs and

> celebrations

> > that are still actively pursued in today's urban centres have

> their origins

> > in rituals surrounding agricultural practices. Even now in most

> households,

> > the grains are sown in a clay pot (my mother would always insist on a

> kalash

> > shape only) before the actual the sowing in the fields started and the

> lady

> > of the house would be proud to have a good harvest at home, after

> which she

> > is confident of abundance and prosperity coming from a good yield from

> the

> > produce in the fields. This clay pot is installed in the centre/garbha

> of

> > the female deity drawn on the earth with flour and other symbolic

> items are

> > placed around her. Many Mithila paintings carry the symbols of this

> form

> > which is basically mother earth.

> >

> > India is vast and exhibits significant geographical, climatic and

> soil-type

> > diversities, but the one common feature of Indian agriculture is its

> > dependence on the most unpredictable of nature's elements:* the

> rains*!

> >

> > There is either the autumn crop called kharif or the winter crop

> called

> > rabi. The kharif crop predominantly uses the moisture from the monsoon

> > rains. With the pre-monsoon showers, farmers perk up. They get the

> land

> > ready and await monsoons to sow their kharif crop. The time is around

> > June-early July. There are three distinct methods of cultivation,

> viz.. by

> > transplantation, by sowing broadcast, or by previous germination. The

> > adityas are worshipped and invoked to impregnate and prepare mother

> earth

> > for a good crop. Urvashi is symbolic of fertility and prosperity. Her

> > sighting is very important thus. The story is better understood in

> this

> > light.

> >

> > The rabi crop is sown in November and harvested in April-May. The new

> year

> > is celebrated in most parts of India in mid April. It begins with

> freshly

> > harvested grain. This is the time when many festivals are celebrated

> > throughout the country and the ceremonial thanksgiving to Mother Earth

> is

> > seen all over.

> >

> > In the context of story mentioned by John, I would say that firstly,

> the

> > story is not from Srimad Bhagvatam but Vishnu Puran. Secondly, the

> Vishnu

> > Puran version is very different and it is distorted beyond recognition

> in

> > this internet version. We are aware how certain elements have been

> attacking

> > our ancient heritage to distort or erode the huge knowledgebase and

> legacy

> > that has been enriching and nurturing us since time immemorial. Most

> of the

> > versions being circulated on the internet in the garb of vedic texts

> are not

> > authentic. For any serious work, we should only use the originals and

> > authentic translations (sadly missing!). Even when translations are

> > available, English has no equivalents for most of the phrases and

> words and

> > implied meaning is very different. We can see how `vigour' and

> `vitality'

> > have been misconstrued. Internet is becoming the biggest supplier of

> scrap

> > and junk with an alarming speed in recycling and replication. All we

> get to

> > see is cemeteries and junkyards!!

> > So be careful.

> >

> > *It is good to study and interpret our ancient texts, but we should

> never

> > interpret the interprtations!!

> >

> > *Regards

> > Neelam*

> > *

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Namaste John,

 

//KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to astrological

principles. I personally have taken seminars from these respected

jyotishis.//

 

It is true that most of our ancient literature is layered and encoded. They

appear to be stories, yet they carry certain messages which are applicable

both at mundane and esoteric levels. There are many layers hiding various

truths and peeling these layers, one by one, going deeper and deeper into

each little couplet would reveal the hidden mysteries. Bhagvad Gita e.g

contains whole of Vedas encapsulated. The hidden meanings can be revealed

only by a real Guru (this is important as internet gurudom will not work) or

by self realization after many years of contemplation.

 

KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have rightly advocated reading of vedic literature. I

have never been associated with Shri Sanjay Rath, so I cannot say anything

about him, but Sh KN Rao always insists on reading from the originals and at

the most from Hindi versions which is the closest one can get to it. He had

even started free Sanskrit classes for the benefit of students who wanted to

study the ancient texts. English interpretations are never encouraged as the

basis of original research.

 

//Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source of

your translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?//

 

I cannot give you the source as we’ve literally grown up on these stories

and originals are the best source. The recitals of these texts, and their

interpretation thereafter, is a routine activity in India. Srimad Bhagwad

recitals are arranged in houses as well as temples and most of the children

are exposed to them. Knowing a little of Sankrit, I have always preferred to

check with the original.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

Neelam

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,

 

When does a person go to search for some Desserts or Ice creams at night

? Obviously after a dinner. Isnt it ?

 

But I find it strange that when so much untapped theory is already

available in our Vedic astrology in india, yet one would find the need

to try encoding the same from Kathas, or the epics or such literature

from Ancient India. I am an Astrology student since last 30 years, and

am still studying astrology, and have not even covered what we already

have in india, or western astrology, there is so much to learn for the

next 5 years for me, even if I sit learning for 8-10 hours of the day x

365 days. It would be most amusing for me to search for further secrets

from such literature when i have not already learnt the techniques still

available at my disposal and applied them. Already in india we have so

many ways to tackle a chart which knowledge very rarely a single

astrologer can possess so anybody who makes such attempts , I find it an

unrealistic effort and chestha.

 

I should have my dinner first before I go for a Cold coffee or a sweet

desert or Ice cream.

 

This is undeniable that there is something to find for every observant

crusader and student of such subjects, but I would rather complete my

academical degrees , and then go for such a search. In the srimad

Bhagvatam, in the vedas, in the mahabharataha, in the temples of india

oo, we find many symbolic references and otherwise too, but not yet. I

would not take an extra step for this search unless I am well versant

with the techniques available at my Home.

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

( Post script - Even in the west, not many even know how to use the

Primary and secondary directions effectively, to predict results in a

natal chart , so forget Mundane. there is much to learn , much to

practise and apply. much from what already exists, life is too short to

attempt discoveries in such areas where there are none ).

 

 

 

 

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

wrote:

>

> Namaste John,

>

> //KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the

vedic

> literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to

astrological

> principles. I personally have taken seminars from these respected

> jyotishis.//

>

> It is true that most of our ancient literature is layered and encoded.

They

> appear to be stories, yet they carry certain messages which are

applicable

> both at mundane and esoteric levels. There are many layers hiding

various

> truths and peeling these layers, one by one, going deeper and deeper

into

> each little couplet would reveal the hidden mysteries. Bhagvad Gita

e.g

> contains whole of Vedas encapsulated. The hidden meanings can be

revealed

> only by a real Guru (this is important as internet gurudom will not

work) or

> by self realization after many years of contemplation.

>

> KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have rightly advocated reading of vedic

literature. I

> have never been associated with Shri Sanjay Rath, so I cannot say

anything

> about him, but Sh KN Rao always insists on reading from the originals

and at

> the most from Hindi versions which is the closest one can get to it.

He had

> even started free Sanskrit classes for the benefit of students who

wanted to

> study the ancient texts. English interpretations are never encouraged

as the

> basis of original research.

>

> //Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source

of

> your translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?//

>

> I cannot give you the source as we've literally grown up on these

stories

> and originals are the best source. The recitals of these texts, and

their

> interpretation thereafter, is a routine activity in India. Srimad

Bhagwad

> recitals are arranged in houses as well as temples and most of the

children

> are exposed to them. Knowing a little of Sankrit, I have always

preferred to

> check with the original.

>

> Hope this helps

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear John, Neelam and others interested in this thread.

There are many enlightened sages from India whose life purpose has been to

travel abroad and scatter the seeds of vedic knowledge for all to share, just as

there are many from the east who travel to the west to share the knowledge and

science there. This is normal and can only energise understanding and cross

fertilisation.

Take the story of Jason and the gold fleece, a Greek tale thought to be an

allegory of strength and wisdom for centuries, until modern scientific methods

found with research and archaeological finds, that the story was based in fact

and not some obscure myth with little foundation in reality. It turns out the

Jason did have a golden fleece, which was actually not golden, but a sheep's

fleece which he used to comb rivers for gold nuggets so that he could sell the

gold to various rulers.A sheep's fleece apparently is the best conduit for

sifting gold from water.

So a former myth which seemed to promote a man to godhead proportion was merely

a factual account of an actual reality.

we all live and learn

best wishes

M

 

-

John

Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:25 AM

Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

 

 

Namaste Neelam,

 

My comments to your responses are as follows:

 

1.> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these stories in

> Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some stories

> about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and significations

> of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have dedicated

> astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can be

> referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never advised in

> any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

 

KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to astrological

principles. I personally have taken seminars from these respected jyotishis.

 

2.> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by lotus. She

is

> naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and Varuna). In

> every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two sages, two

> gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas (snakes) ride

> on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

 

There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came from the

thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two apsaras.

According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.

 

3.> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during rains.

> After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to call upon

> the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain and the

> seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the raising

> of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god.

 

Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source of your

translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?

 

In the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the story about Urvasi is a bit different as noted

in the previous email. In the story, Vasishta was cursed and died. However, he

was reborn due to Mithra and Varuna's seed being sown in a clay pot after seeing

Urvasi. So, the circumstances are different and the interpretation could be

different.

 

4. In some versions, it is

> agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the wife of

> gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

 

I'm familiar with the Pururavas story. We discussed this earlier this week.

This is the basis of my proposed method of how to determine the apsara planet

for astrological analysis.

 

5.> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have actually

> been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons, sowing of

> crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual sowing

> in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing incongruous

> conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> astrological tenets.

 

Thank you for giving us this valuable background which helps us understand the

cultural context of your interpretation.

 

Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier, my jyotish teachers have encouraged their

students to do research of the vedic literature to supplement their knowledge of

jyotish in addition to the standard jyotish texts like those of Parasara and

Jaimini. I am not proposing to disregard the traditional jyotish methods.

 

6. > In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems and after

2

> years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then handed over

> to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated them

> with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling container

> for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

 

This is a fascinating story. I'll have to read this section of the Mahabharata

when I have the time.

 

You have given us an excellent analysis of these stories in the vedic

literature. You also provided us with the cultural background to these stories

which we are not familiar with here in the USA. For this reason, I have

requested forum members to make comments about my interpretation as an outside

observer of the information presented in the vedic literature.

 

Regards,

 

JR

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi John, and everyone,

quote ''There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came

from the thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two

apsaras. According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.'' end quote..

I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of Dolly

the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which was

not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner to

produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way............So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond

our understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see

how far the human race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and

technology

best wishes

M

 

 

-

John

Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:25 AM

Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

 

 

Namaste Neelam,

 

My comments to your responses are as follows:

 

1.> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these stories in

> Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some stories

> about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and significations

> of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have dedicated

> astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can be

> referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never advised in

> any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

 

KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to astrological

principles. I personally have taken seminars from these respected jyotishis.

 

2.> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by lotus. She

is

> naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and Varuna). In

> every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two sages, two

> gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas (snakes) ride

> on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

 

There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came from the

thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two apsaras.

According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.

 

3.> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during rains.

> After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to call upon

> the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain and the

> seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the raising

> of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god.

 

Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source of your

translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?

 

In the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the story about Urvasi is a bit different as noted

in the previous email. In the story, Vasishta was cursed and died. However, he

was reborn due to Mithra and Varuna's seed being sown in a clay pot after seeing

Urvasi. So, the circumstances are different and the interpretation could be

different.

 

4. In some versions, it is

> agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the wife of

> gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

 

I'm familiar with the Pururavas story. We discussed this earlier this week.

This is the basis of my proposed method of how to determine the apsara planet

for astrological analysis.

 

5.> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have actually

> been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons, sowing of

> crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual sowing

> in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing incongruous

> conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> astrological tenets.

 

Thank you for giving us this valuable background which helps us understand the

cultural context of your interpretation.

 

Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier, my jyotish teachers have encouraged their

students to do research of the vedic literature to supplement their knowledge of

jyotish in addition to the standard jyotish texts like those of Parasara and

Jaimini. I am not proposing to disregard the traditional jyotish methods.

 

6. > In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems and after

2

> years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then handed over

> to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated them

> with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling container

> for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

 

This is a fascinating story. I'll have to read this section of the Mahabharata

when I have the time.

 

You have given us an excellent analysis of these stories in the vedic

literature. You also provided us with the cultural background to these stories

which we are not familiar with here in the USA. For this reason, I have

requested forum members to make comments about my interpretation as an outside

observer of the information presented in the vedic literature.

 

Regards,

 

JR

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Marg,

 

Lets talk directly instead of via.

 

I may be mistaken, but as far as I remember, that this Golden fleece

also had the power to heal. If that was the truth, then an ordinary

fleece cannot do this.

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear John, Neelam and others interested in this thread.

> There are many enlightened sages from India whose life purpose has

been to travel abroad and scatter the seeds of vedic knowledge for all

to share, just as there are many from the east who travel to the west to

share the knowledge and science there. This is normal and can only

energise understanding and cross fertilisation.

> Take the story of Jason and the gold fleece, a Greek tale thought to

be an allegory of strength and wisdom for centuries, until modern

scientific methods found with research and archaeological finds, that

the story was based in fact and not some obscure myth with little

foundation in reality. It turns out the Jason did have a golden fleece,

which was actually not golden, but a sheep's fleece which he used to

comb rivers for gold nuggets so that he could sell the gold to various

rulers.A sheep's fleece apparently is the best conduit for sifting gold

from water.

> So a former myth which seemed to promote a man to godhead proportion

was merely a factual account of an actual reality.

> we all live and learn

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> John

>

> Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:25 AM

> Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale

of Camelot!

>

>

> Namaste Neelam,

>

> My comments to your responses are as follows:

>

> 1.> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these

stories in

> > Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some

stories

> > about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and

significations

> > of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have

dedicated

> > astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can

be

> > referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never

advised in

> > any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

>

> KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to

astrological principles. I personally have taken seminars from these

respected jyotishis.

>

> 2.> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by

lotus. She is

> > naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and

Varuna). In

> > every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two

sages, two

> > gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas

(snakes) ride

> > on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

>

> There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came

from the thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two

apsaras. According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.

>

> 3.> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during

rains.

> > After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to

call upon

> > the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain

and the

> > seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the

raising

> > of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god.

>

> Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source

of your translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?

>

> In the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the story about Urvasi is a bit different

as noted in the previous email. In the story, Vasishta was cursed and

died. However, he was reborn due to Mithra and Varuna's seed being sown

in a clay pot after seeing Urvasi. So, the circumstances are different

and the interpretation could be different.

>

> 4. In some versions, it is

> > agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the

wife of

> > gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

>

> I'm familiar with the Pururavas story. We discussed this earlier this

week. This is the basis of my proposed method of how to determine the

apsara planet for astrological analysis.

>

> 5.> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have

actually

> > been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons,

sowing of

> > crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual

sowing

> > in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing

incongruous

> > conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> > astrological tenets.

>

> Thank you for giving us this valuable background which helps us

understand the cultural context of your interpretation.

>

> Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier, my jyotish teachers have encouraged

their students to do research of the vedic literature to supplement

their knowledge of jyotish in addition to the standard jyotish texts

like those of Parasara and Jaimini. I am not proposing to disregard the

traditional jyotish methods.

>

> 6. > In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems

and after 2

> > years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then

handed over

> > to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated

them

> > with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling

container

> > for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

>

> This is a fascinating story. I'll have to read this section of the

Mahabharata when I have the time.

>

> You have given us an excellent analysis of these stories in the vedic

literature. You also provided us with the cultural background to these

stories which we are not familiar with here in the USA. For this reason,

I have requested forum members to make comments about my interpretation

as an outside observer of the information presented in the vedic

literature.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

>

>

>

>