Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of Camelot!

March 29, 2009

Dear Marg,

Cloning of not only plants, animals ( Dolly) , but humans has also

already began long back.

The scientific advance is no doubt very much applaudable, but to reach

the levels of the Ancients, I am sure may take maybe thousands of years

more, if not furthermore, or may not reach at all, until dissolution of

the universe and recreation again.

By striking a thigh, or by enpowering a blade of grass, or by

invocation, these methods cannot be yet compared or equated with the

present day techniques and doscoveries. Maybe in time to come, we may

reach somewhere near. But not yet. The Noahs ark cannot be replicated,

and neither can the Nile turning Red.

Regarding the Apsaras or the Gods of india, Internet information may not

really be complete and factual, on every website, so please whenever you

or anyone else reads it, know that there must be some space left for

corrections, and total fatalistic belief in same must not be enforced.

At the same time, Let me take the opportunity to appreciate all the

westerners who make an attempt to understand the Indian culture and the

myths associated with the truths mentioned in the epics and Vedic and

religious texts of this great heritage.

regards/Bhaskar.

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John, and everyone,

> quote ''There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that

she came from the thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being

tempted by two apsaras. According to one author, the seed word " ur "

means thigh.'' end quote..

> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me

of Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned

sheep, which was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in

a scientific manner to produce a 'being' without normal methods of

fertilisation. This method of creating an animal form is being

reproduced in labs throughout the world, including techniques to use

cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new organs, etc, and many labs

now declare they are on the way to creating humans this

way............So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond

our understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into

to see how far the human race has come full circle in terms of its

knowledge and technology

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> John

>

> Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:25 AM

> Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale

of Camelot!

>

> Namaste Neelam,

>

> My comments to your responses are as follows:

>

> 1.> We can not and should not draw such astro-inferences from these

stories in

> > Puranic literature? They are not meant to decode astrology. Some

stories

> > about the planets may help us in understanding the nature and

significations

> > of planets, but nothing beyond that. For astrology, we have

dedicated

> > astrological literature in the form of shastras and horas which can

be

> > referred to for almost anything our life demands. We are never

advised in

> > any of the classical texts to do astrology from Puranic tales.

>

> KN Rao and Sanjay Rath have encourage their students to read the vedic

literature to find some encoded messages that could relate to

astrological principles. I personally have taken seminars from these

respected jyotishis.

>

> 2.> Urvashi is said to be born from a flower and is represented by

lotus. She is

> > naturally loved by Sun of the rainy season, (adityas Mitra and

Varuna). In

> > every season (a ritu of two months) two adityas (sun gods), two

sages, two

> > gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons) and two nagas

(snakes) ride

> > on the sun's chariot to accompany him.

>

> There is another version of Urvasi's birth. It is said that she came

from the thigh of a rishi who struck it when he was being tempted by two

apsaras. According to one author, the seed word " ur " means thigh.

>

> 3.> The story is about the fertility of earth which is enhanced during

rains.

> > After performing a yagya, by his power sage Vashishtha is able to

call upon

> > the strength of Sun in the form of Mitra and Varuna to cause rain

and the

> > seed is sown in the womb of the earth (the clay pot). It denotes the

raising

> > of crops after paying worshipping the Sun god.

>

> Your interpretation could very well be right. Do you have the source

of your translation and from what vedic text was it taken from?

>

> In the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the story about Urvasi is a bit different

as noted in the previous email. In the story, Vasishta was cursed and

died. However, he was reborn due to Mithra and Varuna's seed being sown

in a clay pot after seeing Urvasi. So, the circumstances are different

and the interpretation could be different.

>

> 4. In some versions, it is

> > agastya who is born as fish. Yet another version depicts her as the

wife of

> > gleaming Pururavas (sun) and they form lunar dynasty.

>

> I'm familiar with the Pururavas story. We discussed this earlier this

week. This is the basis of my proposed method of how to determine the

apsara planet for astrological analysis.

>

> 5.> In Indian households the allegory is well understood and we have

actually

> > been performing such worships before the beginning of seasons,

sowing of

> > crops (worshipping devi and sowing seeds in clay pots before actual

sowing

> > in the field), harvesting, etc. We should refrain from drawing

incongruous

> > conclusions from mythological and puranic stories and stick to pure

> > astrological tenets.

>

> Thank you for giving us this valuable background which helps us

understand the cultural context of your interpretation.

>

> Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier, my jyotish teachers have encouraged

their students to do research of the vedic literature to supplement

their knowledge of jyotish in addition to the standard jyotish texts

like those of Parasara and Jaimini. I am not proposing to disregard the

traditional jyotish methods.

>

> 6. > In the Mahabharata, queen Gandhari, who had pregnancy problems

and after 2

> > years of treatment bore a pinda (ball of flesh) which was then

handed over

> > to a sage. He divided this ball of flesh into 100 parts and treated

them

> > with a chemical process, then put each part into a sealed cooling

container

> > for 2 years, from which 100 male babies were created.

>

> This is a fascinating story. I'll have to read this section of the

Mahabharata when I have the time.

>

> You have given us an excellent analysis of these stories in the vedic

literature. You also provided us with the cultural background to these

stories which we are not familiar with here in the USA. For this reason,

I have requested forum members to make comments about my interpretation

as an outside observer of the information presented in the vedic

literature.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

March 29, 2009

Namaste Marge and forum members,

My comments are as follows:

1.> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of

Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which

was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner

to produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way.<

There are some spiritual and religious teachers who do not approve of cloning

methods or artificial genetic engineering. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi believed that

these methods can seriosly affect the natural environment. In other words, if

someone ignorantly changes the genetic makeup of a certain bug obtained from the

farm fields, this change could wipe out the entire food source of a nation.

That is, this bug could be unknowingly be made resistent to natural predators.

Thus, the bug could multiply ad infinitum to the horror of humans.

The Catholic Church does not approve of human cloning as it degrades the human

dignity in the creation process. The basis of the argument is very complicated

and could be discussed another time.

2.> So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond our understanding

or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see how far the human

race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and technology.<

From my own personal interpretation, the story is again conveying another

astrological concept, encoded for posterity to unravel. We can discuss this

point if there is an interest.

Regards,

JR

March 30, 2009

All beating of gums aside (or tapping of keys perhaps?), while cloning of whole

animals is not quite identicalto stem-cell research, it would be amazing to see

how much a man in a position of power can influence Science! Bush resisted it

for 8 years and Obama turned the tables around on that overnight!

Even in democratic, modern states, one person wields a lot of POWER that can

influence millions and billions (dollars and lives!).

RR

, " John " <jr_esq wrote:

>

> Namaste Marge and forum members,

>

> My comments are as follows:

>

> 1.> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of

Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which

was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner

to produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way.<

>

> There are some spiritual and religious teachers who do not approve of cloning

methods or artificial genetic engineering. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi believed that

these methods can seriosly affect the natural environment. In other words, if

someone ignorantly changes the genetic makeup of a certain bug obtained from the

farm fields, this change could wipe out the entire food source of a nation.

That is, this bug could be unknowingly be made resistent to natural predators.

Thus, the bug could multiply ad infinitum to the horror of humans.

>

> The Catholic Church does not approve of human cloning as it degrades the human

dignity in the creation process. The basis of the argument is very complicated

and could be discussed another time.

>

> 2.> So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond our

understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see how

far the human race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and

technology.<

>

> From my own personal interpretation, the story is again conveying another

astrological concept, encoded for posterity to unravel. We can discuss this

point if there is an interest.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

March 30, 2009

John,

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder -- a well known saying?

Truth is in the mind of the interpreter -- also true, as Carl Jung's personal

writings indicate or at least hint!

Astrology is another way of describing the human experience, just as other

languages and literature probably do.

Perhaps we all should accept that and let it rest there without trying to

convince others that that might be the only way!

Those who have found the truth in their experience, as you seem to have, I for

sure rejoice at your revelations and wish you all the best!

Earlier, I was tempted to bring up your hypothesis about the Apsaraas being the

<wives> of the progeny of mercury (11th from mercury being the 91st navamsha or

7th in navamsha from mercury) and post a few blind charts as opposed to some of

the known cases with dubious or at less questionable birth data than those

proposed as evidence earlier, but what would be the point of such rather than

creating more strife and harshness here...

After all we are really not trying to do serious research here and so on ...

PEACE/SHANTI

Rohiniranjan

, " John " <jr_esq wrote:

>

> Namaste Marge and forum members,

>

> My comments are as follows:

>

> 1.> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of

Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which

was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner

to produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way.<

>

> There are some spiritual and religious teachers who do not approve of cloning

methods or artificial genetic engineering. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi believed that

these methods can seriosly affect the natural environment. In other words, if

someone ignorantly changes the genetic makeup of a certain bug obtained from the

farm fields, this change could wipe out the entire food source of a nation.

That is, this bug could be unknowingly be made resistent to natural predators.

Thus, the bug could multiply ad infinitum to the horror of humans.

>

> The Catholic Church does not approve of human cloning as it degrades the human

dignity in the creation process. The basis of the argument is very complicated

and could be discussed another time.

>

> 2.> So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond our

understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see how

far the human race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and

technology.<

>

> From my own personal interpretation, the story is again conveying another

astrological concept, encoded for posterity to unravel. We can discuss this

point if there is an interest.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

March 30, 2009

Gandhari giving birth to 100 sons could well be an example of advanced

system of IVF and cloning in that era. Noteworthy also is that the

'pot-borns' were not seen procreating and surviving -- all of them die in

the battle. Dollys, Noahs and Samrupas of today meet the same fate.

Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder! someone said rightly. The

scientists have hardly had hold of our civilization for a hundred years and

aren’t we already on the verge of self-destruction.

Our collective conscious is too dated. What we know may be a fraction of

what there is to know. Characters like Gandhari and Vyasa could have been

the lessons in history applied to science today.

Regards

Neelam

March 30, 2009

Dear RRji,

//After all we are really not trying to do serious research here and so on

....//

I didn't know research can also be a non-serious time pass!!! Do we aspire

to write astro-fiction here?

Regards

Neelam

March 30, 2009

Dear Neelam,

Not me! I would not dare waste my valuable time doing research if all I wanted

to do was write fiction!

But that said, here on internet in astrology fora, do you want me to write

anything but...?

I await directions from those who have chosen to READ...!

Rohiniranjan

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear RRji,

>

> //After all we are really not trying to do serious research here and so on

> ...//

>

> I didn't know research can also be a non-serious time pass!!! Do we aspire

> to write astro-fiction here?

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

March 30, 2009

I choose to agree with you in that case. Also agreed that fora-dialogues may

not lead to any worthwhile conclusions. But some crystallisation of thoughts

does occur in the minds of participants. For that I guess, validity of basic

tenet is important before substantiating it with any further argument.

Tapping all keys is certainly a sign of activity, but the door will open

with one key! I am sure you can be a good guide to those who have not only

chosen to READ, but are also willing to VALUE IT….!

Regards

Neelam

March 30, 2009

Dear Neelam,

Almost forty years ago it was brought to my realization that humans do not make

the best teachers since they are ... human!

As I critically eyed my technical teachers some of whose teachings bring home

the roti and daal even today as the saying goes -- sadly, the jyotish and

divination sector fell way short! Maybe I was looking from a high-point.

Recently, I was introduced to a kitten. She does not belong to me but she KNOWS

that I belong to her!

Need I say more?

Rohiniranjan

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> I choose to agree with you in that case. Also agreed that fora-dialogues may

> not lead to any worthwhile conclusions. But some crystallisation of thoughts

> does occur in the minds of participants. For that I guess, validity of basic

> tenet is important before substantiating it with any further argument.

>

> Tapping all keys is certainly a sign of activity, but the door will open

> with one key! I am sure you can be a good guide to those who have not only

> chosen to READ, but are also willing to VALUE IT….!

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

March 30, 2009

Dear RRji,

Seekers, even the astro-types, now have umpteen choices (better or worse?)

for how to treat their own intellectual abilities and those of others

(net-GURUS?). What is missing then? Divinity is omnipresent and is free to

take any form!

The astro-fora take pride in having thousands of members, but only a handful

seem to be doing any serious search and research. Why? No rewards of

monetary kind? No jobs and no incentives in the divine branch of knowledge?

Who will embrace the path which does not offer a decent square meal?

Looks like jyotish is not really meant to come out of the closet? The divine

wish I guess!!

Thanks for touching the right chord!

Regards

Neelam

2009/3/30 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani

> Dear Neelam,

>

> Almost forty years ago it was brought to my realization that humans do not

> make the best teachers since they are ... human!

>

> As I critically eyed my technical teachers some of whose teachings bring

> home the roti and daal even today as the saying goes -- sadly, the jyotish

> and divination sector fell way short! Maybe I was looking from a high-point.

>

> Recently, I was introduced to a kitten. She does not belong to me but she

> KNOWS that I belong to her!

>

> Need I say more?

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> <%40>,

> neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

> >

> > I choose to agree with you in that case. Also agreed that fora-dialogues

> may

> > not lead to any worthwhile conclusions. But some crystallisation of

> thoughts

> > does occur in the minds of participants. For that I guess, validity of

> basic

> > tenet is important before substantiating it with any further argument.

> >

> > Tapping all keys is certainly a sign of activity, but the door will open

> > with one key! I am sure you can be a good guide to those who have not

> only

> > chosen to READ, but are also willing to VALUE IT….!

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

March 30, 2009

Dear RR ji,

HaHa. Those who have chosen to read, how would they write ?

regards./Bhaskar.

, " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani

wrote:

>

> Dear Neelam,

>

> Not me! I would not dare waste my valuable time doing research if all

I wanted to do was write fiction!

>

> But that said, here on internet in astrology fora, do you want me to

write anything but...?

>

> I await directions from those who have chosen to READ...!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

wrote:

> >

> > Dear RRji,

> >

> > //After all we are really not trying to do serious research here and

so on

> > ...//

> >

> > I didn't know research can also be a non-serious time pass!!! Do we

aspire

> > to write astro-fiction here?

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

March 31, 2009

Dear Neelam,

Unfortunately, research in astrology is a very lonely path and results are not

readily forthcoming. I hope I am not sounding cynical but over a long period of

time, the jyotish writings and publications had been rather flat, bland and more

of the same and then some more... When KN Rao and associates began injecting new

energy into this otherwise stagnant field, there was an upsurge of interest and

much activity worldwide but it seems to have all settled down again. Similar

vitality was injected into the scene by Sanjay Rath and his disciples although

they tended to focus on the religious and pauranic aspects of Jyotish and

thereby providing food for thought to those who had similar leanings and

interest.

Quite aside and apart from these iconocentric organizations (they were built

around two human icons, Rao and Rath, hence I hope I am not offending any of

their disciples by saying so) which have done a great service by injecting

adrenaline into the flailing arm of jyotish during the 80s and 90s -- but the

tsunami of vitality gone, jyotish is again settling down to where it was: Status

quo, although at a slightly higher plane perhaps!

There are some very brilliant and articulate young people on the jyotish scene,

many of these are professionals with Jyotish as their pursuit of love (I find

'labour of love' to be an oxymoronic phrase!) and once they stop fighting and

withering away their energies, I am sure they will begin to focus their vitality

on Jyotish.

I have never believed in defending jyotish or trying to convince sceptics or

'other camps' of divination other than publicly responding to their urban myths

about jyotish arising out of their impatient and distracted brush with jyotish

and formulating an opinion and article in magazines who give token space to

Jyotish.

Serious writings and material does exist but most of the average consumer of

jyotish would not touch it. Just as they would not touch the research features

in software and guess what? Software programmers would not spend their midnight

oil and pizza and coke on those fancy research features that may make a few

customers drool and even fewer ones to actually utilize! Astrodatabank was such

a useful product but it went south as well (actually North since a swiss company

has acquired the rights to it!). All of the Rodden data now is available for

free from Astrodienst but the search engine would not be supported any longer

from what I hear. Perhaps it is not so bad after all, because some of the hot

shot programmers will now be able to tap into the data and create for us a

wonderful research tool, after all. There! I feel better already!! :-)

Rohiniranjan

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear RRji,

>

> Seekers, even the astro-types, now have umpteen choices (better or worse?)

> for how to treat their own intellectual abilities and those of others

> (net-GURUS?). What is missing then? Divinity is omnipresent and is free to

> take any form!

>

> The astro-fora take pride in having thousands of members, but only a handful

> seem to be doing any serious search and research. Why? No rewards of

> monetary kind? No jobs and no incentives in the divine branch of knowledge?

> Who will embrace the path which does not offer a decent square meal?

>

> Looks like jyotish is not really meant to come out of the closet? The divine

> wish I guess!!

>

> Thanks for touching the right chord!

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

> 2009/3/30 Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani

>

> > Dear Neelam,

> >

> > Almost forty years ago it was brought to my realization that humans do not

> > make the best teachers since they are ... human!

> >

> > As I critically eyed my technical teachers some of whose teachings bring

> > home the roti and daal even today as the saying goes -- sadly, the jyotish

> > and divination sector fell way short! Maybe I was looking from a high-point.

> >

> > Recently, I was introduced to a kitten. She does not belong to me but she

> > KNOWS that I belong to her!

> >

> > Need I say more?

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > <%40>,

> > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I choose to agree with you in that case. Also agreed that fora-dialogues

> > may

> > > not lead to any worthwhile conclusions. But some crystallisation of

> > thoughts

> > > does occur in the minds of participants. For that I guess, validity of

> > basic

> > > tenet is important before substantiating it with any further argument.

> > >

> > > Tapping all keys is certainly a sign of activity, but the door will open

> > > with one key! I am sure you can be a good guide to those who have not

> > only

> > > chosen to READ, but are also willing to VALUE IT….!

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

March 31, 2009

Among the Panchakosha, when the Pranamay Kosha melts (After the physical body is

burnt after Death), the Vasnamaya Kosha opens. In this Kosha too all the 6

enemies (Shadripu) of human soul are there. For eg. mouth becomes watery.The

stronger the vasana the more time it requires to melt.

Vasnamaya Kosha on its vasanas remaining unfilfilled,takes re-birth. In this

kosha there is some minute substance known as Ectoplasm. This produces all the

vasanas. This substance can easily establish relationshp with the human mind. It

is invisible but sometimes it takes some solid form, then we call it ghost or

demon. According to the characteristic of ectoplasm,there are classes of ghosts

- Rakshasa-demon, Brahmarakshasa, witch , dakaan etc. They take the appearance

of human being or dead person. Sometimes that part of the body is visible

through which he wishes to fulfill his vasana. The vasnamaya kosha fulfills

desire through the medium of " Ectoplasm " . One gets Moksha (Salvation) if

Vasnamaya Kosha is controlled, for which there are 3 ways -

1) Ectoplasm fulfills vasnas by taking the appearance of the material body.

2) Ectoplasm is in search of some specific material body through which it

fulfills the vasna. This is called possession due to spirit. vasnamaya kosha

makes relation with mind quickly, therefore mentally weak persons can come in

possession of evil spirit easily. (Persons of Fiery signs 1, 5 and 9 will not

come in possession of evil spirits easily).

3) The ectoplasm of the Vasnamaya Kosha needs " Heamoglobin " for keeping its

existence. Therefore it starts absorbing or melting the blood. This results in

a person coming in the possession of he evil spirit turning pale. The vasnamaya

kosha can take any shape, at any time and place

Rebirth of ectoplasm takes place due to unfulfilled desire.

The above is some short details on ectoplasm if it helps anybody.

regards/Bhaskar.

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John

> I'll look out for the Lemurian story, it sounds interesting. I do find these

stories are allegorical mostly, but are conveying profound truths and insights

the soul's progress and into physics and meta physics, and as you say we will

just have to await a time when our

> science and technology catches up with knowledge of the sages.

> On another level the meaning could be conveying the idea of spiritual forms

emanating from physical forms, as with the idea of ectoplasm referred to in many

psychic readings. Also, there are allusions to spirit forms taking on the

physical body during an accident where the original soul is traumatised out of

its 'clay pot' at time of heavy impact, leaving the body open to another soul to

enter? This kind of takeover is documented in many books including the

Paramahamsa stories, where we are told that the spirit can inhabit more than one

body at once. African lore has many such incidences, and 'zombie' stories abound

on that continent.

> I think our science and technology has not and dare not touch this area of

life, and this is why we are having to wait until less taboo surrounds the

spiritual levels of existence before we can catch up with understanding the

ancient stories.

> What is interesting about the clay pot metaphor is the fact that the bible

constantly refers to clay pots as well and in terms of breath being blown into

them in order to bring a human to life. However, this also has another

connotation which is an awakening not to physical life but to spiritual life.

The Hermes documents also allude to such situations ands contains many

astrological teachings as well

>

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> John

>

> Friday, March 27, 2009 11:46 PM

> Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

>

> Marg,

>

> My responses to your comments are shown below:

>

> > It is intriquing that ''another body'' was obtained after the seed had

fallen, and I understand now why you say this story does indicate other forms of

conception than normal union.

> > What is unusual is that while storing seed for future fertilistation is

often seen as a modern day threat to men's role in perpetuation of the species,

this story doesn't indicate a female womb for Vasishtha's gestation period,

unless, as you say we count the clay pot as indicating this.

>

> There are other stories that are similar to this one in the vedic

literature. Drona is said to have been conceived in the same manner. He in fact

boasted that he was not born of a human mother.

>

> Then, in another story, we find another reference to a clay pot carried by

the wife of Jamadagni, one of the saptarishis in the ancient past. According to

the story, this clay pot melted in the river when the wife saw a handsome

Gandharva while fetching water for the family. For this act, Jamadagni felt

betrayed and insulted that his wife should look at another man with lust. Thus,

he ordered his son Parasurama to kill his wife, along with his other sons who

refused to lay hands on their mother.

>

> Nonetheless, because of Parasurama's obedience, Jamadagni allowed his wife

and other sons to be resurrected from their death.

>

> So, the imagery for the clay pot is rather puzzling to say the least.

>

> > On a metaphysical level, there seems also to be a hint of an ephemeral

being gaining a corporeal body as a means of incarnating, so the clay pot

becomes a metaphor conveying the idea of a spiritual form gaining birth in a

physical body-the clay pot. Immaculate conception no less:-)

>

> At the present time, no one has the knowledge to do this. However, a

Shaivite guru who taught in his Kauai ashram wrote a book called, " The Lemurian

Scrolls " . In this book, he wrote of beings from the Pleaides who had the

technology for incarnating into earth from their spiritual bodies. It's a

fascinating story. You should read it.

>

> > Perhaps the ancients were more advanced in IVF than we realise<grin>

>

> Very true. We may be able to understand this story when we have the

technology to replicate this apparent magical conception method.

>

> JR

>

March 31, 2009

Hi John and list members,

Of course cloning etc is dangerous, but sadly governments are passing laws all

the time to allow Frankenstein experiments.

Yes I would be interested to find out what your understanding is of the

astrological message, though can't say I can 'discuss' with you, as my limited

knowledge wouldn't allow me to engage in anything meaningful!

Would like to 'hear' your views though,

best wishes

M

-

John

Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:28 PM

Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

Namaste Marge and forum members,

My comments are as follows:

1.> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of

Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which

was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner

to produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way.<

There are some spiritual and religious teachers who do not approve of cloning

methods or artificial genetic engineering. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi believed that

these methods can seriosly affect the natural environment. In other words, if

someone ignorantly changes the genetic makeup of a certain bug obtained from the

farm fields, this change could wipe out the entire food source of a nation. That

is, this bug could be unknowingly be made resistent to natural predators. Thus,

the bug could multiply ad infinitum to the horror of humans.

The Catholic Church does not approve of human cloning as it degrades the human

dignity in the creation process. The basis of the argument is very complicated

and could be discussed another time.

2.> So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond our

understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see how

far the human race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and

technology.<

From my own personal interpretation, the story is again conveying another

astrological concept, encoded for posterity to unravel. We can discuss this

point if there is an interest.

Regards,

JR

March 31, 2009

Hi R

Yes, this is not good, that one person wields so much power. The same in the UK

when ONLY Blair wanted the war in Iraq and lied to persuade the gov to follow

his irrational thinking.

Still, all must be unfolding according to the law of karma, we just have to do

what we can, and as astrologers we know that things have a universal purpose

behind them that we can only begin to unfold with our limited knowledge

best wishes

M

-

Rohiniranjan

Monday, March 30, 2009 12:30 AM

Re: Apsaraas and Marriages: The American Tale of

Camelot!

All beating of gums aside (or tapping of keys perhaps?), while cloning of

whole animals is not quite identicalto stem-cell research, it would be amazing

to see how much a man in a position of power can influence Science! Bush

resisted it for 8 years and Obama turned the tables around on that overnight!

Even in democratic, modern states, one person wields a lot of POWER that can

influence millions and billions (dollars and lives!).

RR

, " John " <jr_esq wrote:

>

> Namaste Marge and forum members,

>

> My comments are as follows:

>

> 1.> I was thinking of this allusion for most of the day as it reminded me of

Dolly the sheep. You may or may not know of the story of the cloned sheep, which

was not born in the usual manner but with cloning cells in a scientific manner

to produce a 'being' without normal methods of fertilisation. This method of

creating an animal form is being reproduced in labs throughout the world,

including techniques to use cells to reproduce teeth, gums, new skin, new

organs, etc, and many labs now declare they are on the way to creating humans

this way.<

>

> There are some spiritual and religious teachers who do not approve of

cloning methods or artificial genetic engineering. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

believed that these methods can seriosly affect the natural environment. In

other words, if someone ignorantly changes the genetic makeup of a certain bug

obtained from the farm fields, this change could wipe out the entire food source

of a nation. That is, this bug could be unknowingly be made resistent to natural

predators. Thus, the bug could multiply ad infinitum to the horror of humans.

>

> The Catholic Church does not approve of human cloning as it degrades the

human dignity in the creation process. The basis of the argument is very

complicated and could be discussed another time.

>

> 2.> So it may not be the ancient literature is talking beyond our

understanding or technology, but is merely a mirror we can look into to see how

far the human race has come full circle in terms of its knowledge and

technology.<

>

> From my own personal interpretation, the story is again conveying another

astrological concept, encoded for posterity to unravel. We can discuss this

point if there is an interest.

>

> Regards,

>

> JR

>

March 31, 2009

Hi John and others interested in this thread

By coincidence I came across this ancient Greek tale which also talks of clay

pots being shaped in mortal form of an attractive woman in order to snare men:

(ll. 42-53) For the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you would

easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without

working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields

worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste. But Zeus in the anger of his

heart hid it, because Prometheus the crafty deceived him; therefore he planned

sorrow and mischief against men. He hid fire; but that the noble son of Iapetus

stole again for men from Zeus the counsellor in a hollow fennel-stalk, so that

Zeus who delights in thunder did not see it. But afterwards Zeus who gathers the

clouds said to him in anger:

(ll. 54-59) `Son of Iapetus, surpassing all in cunning, you are glad that you

have outwitted me and stolen fire -- a great plague to you yourself and to men

that shall be. But I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which

they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction.'

(ll. 60-68) So said the father of men and gods, and laughed aloud. And he bade

famous Hephaestus make haste and mix earth with water and to put in it the voice

and strength of human kind, and fashion a sweet, lovely maiden-shape, like to

the immortal goddesses in face; and Athene to teach her needlework and the

weaving of the varied web; and golden Aphrodite to shed grace upon her head and

cruel longing and cares that weary the limbs. And he charged Hermes the guide,

the Slayer of Argus, to put in her a shameless mind and a deceitful nature.

(ll. 69-82) So he ordered. And they obeyed the lord Zeus the son of Cronos.

Forthwith the famous Lame God moulded clay in the likeness of a modest maid, as

the son of Cronos purposed. And the goddess bright-eyed Athene girded and

clothed her, and the divine Graces and queenly Persuasion put necklaces of gold

upon her, and the rich-haired Hours crowned her head with spring flowers. And

Pallas Athene bedecked her form with all manners of finery. Also the Guide, the

Slayer of Argus, contrived within her lies and crafty words and a deceitful

nature at the will of loud thundering Zeus, and the Herald of the gods put

speech in her. And he called this woman Pandora (2), because all they who dwelt

on Olympus gave each a gift, a plague to men who eat bread.

(ll. 83-89) But when he had finished the sheer, hopeless snare, the Father sent

glorious Argus-Slayer, the swift messenger of the gods, to take it to Epimetheus

as a gift. And Epimetheus did not think on what Prometheus had said to him,

bidding him never take a gift of Olympian Zeus, but to send it back for fear it

might prove to be something harmful to men. But he took the gift, and

afterwards, when the evil thing was already his, he understood.

(ll. 90-105) For ere this the tribes of men lived on earth remote and free from

ills and hard toil and heavy sickness which bring the Fates upon men; for in

misery men grow old quickly. But the woman took off the great lid of the jar (3)

with her hands and scattered all these and her thought caused sorrow and

mischief to men. Only Hope remained there in an unbreakable home within under

the rim of the great jar, and did not fly out at the door; for ere that, the lid

of the jar stopped her, by the will of Aegis-holding Zeus who gathers the

clouds. But the rest, countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full

of evils and the sea is full. Of themselves diseases come upon men continually

by day and by night, bringing mischief to mortals silently; for wise Zeus took

away speech from them. So is there no way to escape the will of Zeus.

March 31, 2009

Marge and others,

Thanks for the interesting story. Pandora is certainly notorious from my

limited knowledge of Greek mythology. The story delivers many messages in

addition to the idea of an apsara. Unraveling this story could be rather

difficult, particularly if we try to find out how Pandora can be seen in

anyone's chart.

Regards,

JR

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi John and others interested in this thread

> By coincidence I came across this ancient Greek tale which also talks of clay

pots being shaped in mortal form of an attractive woman in order to snare men:

> (ll. 42-53) For the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you

would easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without

working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields

worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste. But Zeus in the anger of his

heart hid it, because Prometheus the crafty deceived him; therefore he planned

sorrow and mischief against men. He hid fire; but that the noble son of Iapetus

stole again for men from Zeus the counsellor in a hollow fennel-stalk, so that

Zeus who delights in thunder did not see it. But afterwards Zeus who gathers the

clouds said to him in anger:

>

> (ll. 54-59) `Son of Iapetus, surpassing all in cunning, you are glad that you

have outwitted me and stolen fire -- a great plague to you yourself and to men

that shall be. But I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which

they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction.'

>

> (ll. 60-68) So said the father of men and gods, and laughed aloud. And he bade

famous Hephaestus make haste and mix earth with water and to put in it the voice

and strength of human kind, and fashion a sweet, lovely maiden-shape, like to

the immortal goddesses in face; and Athene to teach her needlework and the

weaving of the varied web; and golden Aphrodite to shed grace upon her head and

cruel longing and cares that weary the limbs. And he charged Hermes the guide,

the Slayer of Argus, to put in her a shameless mind and a deceitful nature.

>

> (ll. 69-82) So he ordered. And they obeyed the lord Zeus the son of Cronos.