astrology a science or myth

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Hare ramakrishna ,

dear sanat kumar ji .

 

even thou this mail is adressed to respected chandra ji i would like to answer ur concerns .

Astrology is not a science which can be proved in table top like a laboratory science and its based on anubhava and anumana (means experience and observations) and its a body of knowledge .what u want to prove -the astro literatue is so wast and no body with 40 life time cannot realy master it and with so many calamities and wars it has destroyed many guruparamparas and some logics behind it .If u collect all shokas may be one billion slokas may be in astro with 100s of systems .we dont get all this knowledge from mesopetomia or greeks >instead of reading western his --stroeys u pls go ur self and try to find at least one classics from any of this place s dealing in astro

U hav not done it where as i hav interacted with many scholars with many countries and I know what is their opinions.

First of all pls remove ur concern abt planets and grahas .

Rishis used all 9 planets as grahas not planets ,its the in ability of english laungage .

Graha means which can capture u ,or influence u ,remembr the word grahan .in surya grahan or chandra grahan .

again in any amount new planets being discovered ( dis--covered means removing cover only means it was there b4 and not an invention) is not a worry for hindu astrologers as varahamihira clearly mentioned grahanam sata kodi ---------(means planets are may be 100s of crores in this universe and which ever come in ecliptical path of earths and influence us are 7 tara grahas and 2 chaya grahas ( means a smoke and has no mass ) ,tho veda vyasa was describing abt indra ,varuna ,rudra(neptune ,puto ,uranus) in Mahabharath wars time and their rasi positions and also he was describing some comet also appeared .

So u without understanding this basics written a book and asking us to prove what ???

first u learn the subjuct ,dont parrot any randi or mandi and withdraw ur book and offer appologies .

i repeat astrology is used for predicting ,not proving the speed or physical properties of any planets .That we r least bothered as its not our domain .Even late director of indian weather forcast agency sri Pisharody i know what was his opion abt brihat samhita of varahamihira in predicting weather and natural calamities .If u want his lectures are available with indian sastra congress,if u can try u may get it .He was also a very learned man in his subjuct and born in a vedic family of kerala astrologers .means he was a sceintist.

But dont ask me to predict any weather forcast as astro has been devided as ganita (astronomy ) golasastra and then only natal ,national,prashna horoscopies .So try to understand that differrence also .

Now natal charts are more seen by any astrologers as no one including ruling parities or ministers r not worry abt what will happen to nation this year .

for ur kind information one astrologer who is working in madras weather burea has successfully predicted various Tsunamies with may be 20 or 30 minits difference and also for coming days and i think that is even available in net also .And he submited a report to govt of india and his superiors also

and if his report is approved ,then there is no scope for kick backs and commissions .

as a 100 crore rs /- equipment may predict Tsunami at 500KM/hr means if its coming from indonesia ,u can work out how

many hours a government will get to evacuvate the victims .But equipments are ordered and also installed .

I think i answered some of ur main questions .Next time read arya bhatiyam by aryabhatta and bhaskariyam by bhaskaracharya and also varahmihira and pls come with that knowledge otherwise i may opt to not to reply u .And if cannot read and wants us to answer then i hav nothing to say .

 

regrds sunil nair .

om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> > Dear chandrashekhar ji,> Namaskar,> Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering the > many questions raised so far.> > You said > >>>>>>……However if the sages have not changed their views of what > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are to be > called primitive.<<<<<<<<> Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is science. > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating the > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific knowledge or > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day. But if > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest with > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or under-> estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best with > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept. In > other words I may say that the person who has devised the wheel or > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist. Because he > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st century > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent person (he > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge was > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used by > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations too had > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in the > thread of development of human civilization then only you can realize > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and primitive > with reference to modern knowledge. > > > >>>>>>>but there is a difference in the way planet is defined by > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is defined by the > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<> Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable thing is > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties. Then > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think otherwise in > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even then > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they move > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun is a > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is sphere or > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our sages > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and best > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner of > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of human > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system. But he was > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has been > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he offered > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet used to > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in the > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the Galileo, > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of Bible. > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the death. > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages and > religion.> > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is only > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of development > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not have > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of 21st > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of 40th > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should not > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they were not > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of Greek, > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn any > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the principle of > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with the > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every body > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the life on > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so on. In > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse (troubles > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so on) > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King and > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to formulate some > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus some > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not known in > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in Manusmriti > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be expelled > from the gathering of learned.> > >>>>>>>Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<> So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages were > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to see, then > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this. At the > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it was > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of solar > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But it > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental process.> > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains left in > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to continue or not > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give reply > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book). But I > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or question. > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away from > direct discussion.> > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.> > Thanks,> > Sanat> Sanatkumar_jain (Reader may directly write to me on my email)> 3-12-2007> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sanat,> > > > It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern day > > scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of what in > > their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be taken > as > > sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their views of > what > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are to > be > > called primitive.> > > > I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a > difference in > > the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the manner in > which > > a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. > > Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose will be > > served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the knowledge > of > > astrology which is the purpose of this list.> > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > > sanat2221 wrote:> > > Dear Chandrashekhar.> > > Thanks for your mail.> > > Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog. But you > > > raised question about Pluto.> > > I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as to why > it > > > was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you are > > > checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to your > > > question.> > >> > > It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body among > the > > > fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge and > > > experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn > were > > > treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as planets > by > > > our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are now > > > propagating in the name of astrology.> > >> > > On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus found by > > > William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In continuity of > this > > > discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries of > Pallas, > > > Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered Pluto > > > planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt, In > 2005, > > > Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and it > was > > > thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that none > of > > > these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India, > because > > > all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the name > of > > > forecast and only on the good name of sages.> > >> > > It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that any > > > moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small bodies > > > around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third > condition > > > hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna, Jena > etc. > > > bodies could not be treated as planet and another category of > Dwarf > > > planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to > accommodate > > > all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf planet > number > > > 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight planets > > > (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and > Neptune). > > > So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when are > you > > > and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in > > > Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the name of > > > sages.> > >> > > I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am sure > > > that you will like to answer my blog point wise.> > >> > > Thanks,> > >> > > Sanat> > > Sanatkumar_jain@> > >> > >> > >> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar > > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:> > > > > >> Dear Sanatkumar,> > >>> > >> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance Pluto > was > > >> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a planet > and > > >> > > > only > > > > > >> recently declassified from that status, before you question the > > >> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the > principles, > > >> > > > that > > > > > >> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new > methods > > >> > > > of > > > > > >> astrological predictions.> > >>> > >> Chandrashekhar.> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> sanat2221 wrote:> > >> > > >>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > >>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some> > >>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > >>> > > > depth> > > > > >>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > >>> > > > this. So> > > > > >>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > >>> > > > whether> > > > > >>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science > due > > >>> > > > to> > > > > >>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of> > >>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to> > >>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > >>> > > > examine> > > > > >>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have> > >>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are > standing > > >>> > > > in> > > > > >>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been> > >>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a> > >>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can > understand > > >>> > > > the> > > > > >>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but > if > > >>> > > > you> > > > > >>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an> > >>> astrologer in the consumer forum.> > >>>> > >>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early> > >>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has> > >>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > >>> > > > religious> > > > > >>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > >>> > > > Moon,> > > > > >>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > >>> > > > sages> > > > > >>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after> > >>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > >>> > > > predict> > > > > >>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > >>> > > > grabbing> > > > > >>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > >>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its> > >>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > >>> > > > etc.> > > > > >>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > >>> > > > still> > > > > >>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > >>> > > > everybody> > > > > >>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this > situation, > > >>> > > > it> > > > > >>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the > fate > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > >>> > > > fate of> > > > > >>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various> > >>> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > >>> > > > sages> > > > > >>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > >>> > > > principles> > > > > >>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.> > >>>> > >>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > >>> > > > percolated> > > > > >>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to > learn> > >>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were> > >>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > >>> > > > system.> > > > > >>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group> > >>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due > to> > >>> their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit> > >>> past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > >>> > > > within a> > > > > >>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc.,> > >>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > >>> > > > astrological> > > > > >>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical> > >>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) > may > > >>> > > > come> > > > > >>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self> > >>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on > other> > >>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead,> > >>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > >>> > > > that> > > > > >>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say> > >>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against > astrology. > > >>> > > > But> > > > > >>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > >>> > > > level> > > > > >>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed> > >>> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was> > >>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,> > >>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary> > >>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > >>> > > > following> > > > > >>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > >>> > > > subpara).> > > > > >>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven> > >>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > >>>> > >>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the > stationary> > >>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........> > >>>> > >>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and> > >>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > >>> > > > each> > > > > >>> other) ?> > >>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons > over> > >>> nector after sea-churning...........> > >>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > >>> > > > quarter> > > > > >>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > > >>> > > > seventh> > > > > >>> house) ?> > >>> Based on the position of army in the battle field...........> > >>>> > >>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > > >>> > > > and> > > > > >>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of > Aries> > >>> sign) ?> > >>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the> > >>> day is more in comparison to night......> > >>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and > hub > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas > Venus > > >>> > > > (a> > > > > >>> small planet) has 20 years ?> > >>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of> > >>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......> > >>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > >>> > > > between> > > > > >>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > >>>> > >>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures..........> > >>>> > >>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week> > >>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > >>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > >>> > > > structure> > > > > >>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....> > >>>> > >>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion > of> > >>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....> > >>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > > >>> > > > deg.> > > > > >>> apart?> > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........> > >>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > >>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month..........> > >>>> > >>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to> > >>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave> > >>> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire> > >>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of> > >>> Universe.> > >>>> > >>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then> > >>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage> > >>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the> > >>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in > all> > >>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old> > >>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > >>> > > > beyond> > > > > >>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and > Moon.> > >>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles > are> > >>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > >>> > > > astrology> > > > > >>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct> > >>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is> > >>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically > and> > >>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept> > >>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in > view > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive > concept > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > >>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > >>> > > > astrology "Jyotish -> > > > > >>> Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book > contains > > >>> > > > the> > > > > >>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > >>> > > > basis> > > > > >>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to> > >>> formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > >>> > > > English> > > > > >>> with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). You > can> > >>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the > face > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > more> > >>> about the book or description of various chapters then you may > > >>> > > > send> > > > > >>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.> > >>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?> > >>> > > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > >>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836>> > >>>> > >>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%> > >>> > > > 20kumar% > > > > > >>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%> > >>> > > > 20kumar%>> > > > > >>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > >>>> > >>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > >>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>> > >>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > >>>> > >>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune > nor > > >>> > > > they> > > > > >>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to > presence > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > >>> > > > concept> > > > > >>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was > > >>> > > > mentioned in> > > > > >>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14> > >>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > >>> > > > nobody> > > > > >>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > >>> > > > Sun,> > > > > >>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree > respectively > > >>> > > > on> > > > > >>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > >>> > > > Ketu> > > > > >>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-> > >>> > > > 1988 (> > > > > >>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses> > >>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more > then> > >>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > >>> > > > deg.> > > > > >>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > >>> > > > 76.49> > > > > >>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14> > >>> deg. away).> > >>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also> > >>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > > >>> > > > the> > > > > >>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not> > >>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > >>> > > > myth).> > > > > >>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon> > >>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. > But > > >>> > > > As> > > > > >>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > > >>> > > > and 3-> > > > > >>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > > >>> > > > solar> > > > > >>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree> > >>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > >>> > > > eclipses> > > > > >>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > >>> > > > degree> > > > > >>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.> > >>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > >>> > > > Thus> > > > > >>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees > respectively. > > >>> > > > All> > > > > >>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental> > >>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > > >>> > > > then I> > > > > >>> can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > >>> > > > them.> > > > > >>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science > but > > >>> > > > in> > > > > >>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +> > >>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology> > >>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > >>> > > > played an> > > > > >>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > >>> > > > immense> > > > > >>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > >>> > > > appears to> > > > > >>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > >>> > > > agree> > > > > >>> with the above observation after going through my original> > >>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > > >>> > > > was> > > > > >>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try > to > > >>> > > > do> > > > > >>> some thing, because every thing will take place according to > pre-> > >>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying > that > > >>> > > > pre-> > > > > >>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, > even > > >>> > > > then> > > > > >>> all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > >>> > > > cascading> > > > > >>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every> > >>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say > pre-> > >>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when > every > > >>> > > > Tom,> > > > > >>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > > >>> > > > deed> > > > > >>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under > change. > > >>> > > > You> > > > > >>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical> > >>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > >>> > > > never> > > > > >>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be> > >>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also> > >>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > >>> > > > prewritten)> > > > > >>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because > in> > >>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be > altered > > >>> > > > but> > > > > >>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be> > >>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of> > >>> planets?> > >>>> > >>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > >>> > > > that> > > > > >>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > >>> > > > astronomy> > > > > >>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used> > >>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > >>> > > > correct.> > > > > >>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > >>> > > > Still if> > > > > >>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James> > >>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to> > >>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and> > >>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and > > >>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern> > >>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to> > >>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business> > >>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this > sort > > >>> > > > of> > > > > >>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard> > >>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology> > >>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate> > >>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of> > >>> Universe, solar system.> > >>>> > >>> I will like to have your critical comments for further > > >>> > > > interaction on> > > > > >>> my email sanatkumar_jain@ > > >>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be better > to > > >>> > > > know> > > > > >>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > in> > >>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > >>> > > > (Astrology Is> > > > > >>> Damaging Society).> > >>> Sanat Kumar Jain> > >>> Gwalior> > >>>> > >>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating> > >>> problems to moderator> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nair,

Thanks for your mail.

I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

 

>>>>>i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of ur

books like salman rushdy or taslima<<<<<

 

and secondly my book is not a fiction like salman etc…. Hence I am

not bothered to promote the book. Because it is the work of the

publisher because ultimately he earns from the sale. Secondly when

book is already being sold in USA, UK, Europe then what I have to do

by interacting with some small group.

 

>>>>>>>rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know

that sun is stationary .<<<<<<

Above statement followed with many lines show that you are only

saying what you have heard from astrologers, who are expert in

befooling others, but you have not taken pains to read any

scripture. That's why you are asking me to refer Aryabhatia,

Bhaskaracharya etc.

 

First you even don't know that astrological principles were not

formulated by aryabhatt or bhaskaracharya. I think you even don't

know when they were. So for your kind information Aryabhatt (6th

Century) and bhaskaracharya (12th century) has nothing to do with

astrology (predictive). They are astronomers (as per present

convention). Whereas astrological principles were formulated by sage

Parashar around 200 BC. And that too after adopting the concept of

sign from Greeks. You may read " Vishnu Puran " written by Sage

parashar himself, where he mention that Earth is stationary and Sun

hoovers over it at a distance of 1 lakh yojan (about 14.4 lakh km)

and is it near then Moon……….and so on…….(Read my book for detail

because it is not possible to write the matter of 350 pages on this

mail).

 

>>>>>>>> even bhaskaracharya says abt the eclipses and

its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

moon .<<<<<<<<<

I am not saying that their was no eclipse, But please read any

scripture as to why there is eclipse and how to save the sun from the

clutched of Ketu after bathing and donation etc. Bhaskaracharya and

other astronomers were only calculating the correctness of the

transit and every eclipse was worked out on the basis of position of

Rahu – Ketu. Because concept of Rahuketu was only devised on the

basis of eclipse. So do not try to get some escape route.

 

>>>>> circumference of each planet has been assessed by them<<<<<<<<

Is it correct scientifically.

 

>>>>>gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery

planets>>>>>>>

They are not planets. These are only terms used for deriving some

prediction. Have you read any scripture where these were mentioned

along with Sun, Moon etc…like planets.

 

>>>>>>>> Can u show any

planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy…….<<<<<

Now astrologer are terming them as intersection point of the orbit of

Sun and Moon (refer any astrological book) only on the basis of

eclipse. And it is not a board of Delhi, But they are well mentioned

in scriptures.

 

>>>>>>> our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in

correct parlance .<<<<<<

Where you find it. I have asked so many questions relating to

principle, calculation and prediction but you have not answered a

single question. If prediction is correct then can you answer as to

whether

 

1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

2 When he / she will be married.

3 When he / she will be father / mother

4 When he / she will die.

 

Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive

answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and

secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof principle

for any prediction then you can also intimate for further

interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then they may

ask him above 4 questions.

 

>>>>>>>>>>> But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind

it there are methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some

times only rasi dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all

signifcance of planets<<<<<<<

 

It is your right if you don't want to talk with me but it is my duty

to answer you otherwise your moderator will charge me that I am

avoiding any discussion. Perhaps you are even not aware that rasi

was not created by our sages but it was borrowed from Greek ……..

 

>>>>>>>u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is

more than 100 of astro systems r there .<<<<<

I have spent more then 35 years in studying the astrology and want to

learn some thing from you. But you are not prepared to even answer my

questions then how I will learn.

And if there are 100 astro systems but none of them is able to

predict correctly. Otherwise you can give answer to my questions.

Secondly we are humanbeings and always afraid with unknown future

hence it is our weakness to know about future so that we may protect

ourselves. But if any one system out 1oo systems is correct then

what is the need of applying the mind to find the correct answer

which we already know. Thus your statement is itself confirm that

many systems were only devised to find the truth which was not

available with previous systems.

 

>>>>>we find there is 1000s of

books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid

people are claiming they knows everything and asking us to

prove .<<<<<<

If for the sake of discussion I admit that no body has gone through

the books lying in library then why astrologer may not go to read

them first and then come forward with some correct prediction.

Instead of befooling innocent persons like you with half knowledge

(of astrologers).

 

 

>>>>>>…………… even the therey of evolution is not fool

proof………………..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

What is science. Science is a continuous process of learning and

devising new principles without any attachment with any old

principle. So if any theory is not final, then it makes no difference

because it will be finalized in years to come.

 

It would have been better if you come forward with some solid

answers of my question. But any how thanks for your comments.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

 

4-12-2007

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Hare ramakrishna,

>

> dear sanat kumar

>

>

>

> i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of

ur

> books like salman rushdy or taslima .

>

> If u want complete understanding of jyothish u can visit me ,as

this

> grp space u can avoid misusing .

>

>

>

> rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know that

sun

> is stationary .but for calculation purpose as jyothisha is based on

> calculation and practical purpose they use so many things which may

be

> not true according to modern science .So this vakra or stationary

> motions u may not find in modern astronomy .same is case of venus

and

> mercury .Its all based on the inhabitant of earth and his view .But

u

> see the distance from earth is correctly measured and may be very

small

> negligible error in their calculation with modern astronomy .U can

refer

> atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where it

says its

> gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force

called

> parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

eclipses and

> its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

moon .

>

>

>

> But its all part of ganita system in jyothish which is used by

panchanga

> makers who predicts even all eclipses correctly may since last 2

> millinaiums ,so dont say rishis dont hav scintific back ground and

even

> the movements and circumference of each planet has been assessed by

them

> .

>

>

>

> And also they inclide so many other planets also like rahu and ketu

and

> gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery

planets

> and it has got its own place in astrology and prashna .Can u show

any

> planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy .Again i wanted to

tell

> u their basis of planets need not be the real planets as like a

traffic

> lite (automatic) controls the traffic ,its only a medium they

used .And

> dont confuse with dailectical style with actual facts >when we r

> arriving to delhi by train we say delhi has come ,does it mean that

> delhi is coming to u .Also dont confuse sign board with actual

place .if

> u get down to delhi by flight may be u can see ,welcome to delhi --

that

> measn is that sign board is delhi ??

>

> Yes ,i agree some logic is lost but since its a pracical thing and

in

> our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in correct

> parlance .

>

>

>

> But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind it there

are

> methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some times only

rasi

> dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all signifcance of

planets .But

> u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is more

than 100

> of astro systems r there .

>

> So first u study and come with charts for arguments than writing

sugar

> and licking the paper and complaing that this paper is not sweet .

>

> I hav 1000s of question abt any science ,if u refer back my mails u

can

> see it ,some of that .

>

>

>

> But no question kovoor model or edamaruku model of indian atheist

> society as they them self proved wrong and was lieing .Kovoor said

he

> studied astro ,here in our full life still we find there is 1000s of

> books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid

people

> are claiming they knows everything and asking us to prove .

>

> Can sceince made food from carbon and hydregen and oxygen as all

food

> is carbo hydrates ,can they produce rice and wheat seperately ,But

we r

> not fools to argue with them because there is some accepted facts

>other

> wise if u try u may get soda water only .But that doesnot make their

> therey wrong .Did sceince able to expalin the black holes(kaalika

sakti

> ) which sucks matter as big as big planets and making a emptyness

And

> even the therey of evolution is not fool proof ,also the first life

in

> earth ,they make some conditions and say its based on this

conditions

> remaining the same as a pre requisite to work the theorey ,why so

if all

> is 2+2=4 .then tell me from where the first cell is generated ??

How the

> same energy matter is differring on physical properties ,salt is

> different and sugar is differnet ,and all is finaly part of total

energy

> in this universe ????what is ur logic .Why some people r only

allergic

> to some medicines ??why some kids become autistic after

vaccinated????

>

> if science so plain and simple and does not hav different

diamentions.

>

> But u must explain all this without asking any pre conditions and

one

> condition is allowed to explain all ur logic .Dont take different

stand

> for each answer.

>

>

>

> regrds sunil nair .

>

> Om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

>

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Lalit Ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your mails of 28 and 29th. Though I have given a very

> > comprehensive reply of your mail dt. 26th Nov. But you have not

> > replied pointwise. If you are not ready to give pointwise reply

then

> > what is the use of discussion and how will you

> >

> > >>>>>>> i m very eager to settle scores with u by

> > using ur own logic.<<<<<<<<

> >

> > settle the score. (do not think that by evading the point and

using

> > the filthy language you have settled the score.) I am not bouncing

> > the questions / querry without any substance with me. So there is

no

> > question of evading and academic discussion

> >

> > >>>>>>> I have collected some intersting informations abt Mr.

Sanat.

> > He has been provoking people simultaneously evading direct debate

for

> > last more than two years.<<<<<<<

> >

> > I don't know what sort of interesting info. you have collected abt

> > myself. But I am always ready for any discussion and I always

reply

> > even mail be derogatory or going to settle the score. If you will

> > intimate me the site / mail which I have not replied then I will

be

> > happy and will definitely reply. It is possible that either I have

> > not come across the mail because I do not reply the mails between

> > group members and do not visit the forum regularly, if there is

not

> > a continuity of discussion. Because it is not correct to break the

> > planning against me. (As Aavesh is writing to Ms Nalini like " …

> > jokers like Mr Sanat…….. So where is the point which I should

> reply).

> > However, to avoid any hardship I always quote that anyone can

> > directly write to me on my email because it is also possible that

I

> > may have left the site. So your comment is quite baseless. Even I

am

> > replying your mails (though late because I am answering one by

one)

> > even after your filthy language. Because you are always in hurry,

> > whereas the first sentence of my first blog say " ponder " means

take

> > your time and then write. If I am not present then you can always

> > call me through my email. Because I read all my emails but may

not be

> > able to read all messages in the forum/site etc.

> >

> > I have replied every mail of this forum and at present not a

single

> > message is pending with me. How you can charge that I am evading

> > direct discussion. But their must be some points. What sort of

> > reply you want if there is nothing in the mail. I have replied you

> > once, to Sh. Chandrashekhar ji, to M/s Kiran ji, to Aaveshji. But

do

> > you find any reply of my questions in their mails. Though Kiranji

has

> > tried somewhat but even she has not replied on my points. I have

> > replied your earlier mail but you have not replied pointwise but

> > came with some baseless defence.

> >

> > >>>>> if there is no good library of

> > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a

science.<<<<<

> > But I can read the physics from any other library. But if

> > any book has those principles which have no support in any

library of

> > the world and whatever is being claimed is only based on faith

> > towards sages and that too may also be wrong (though it took

> > thousands of years) then how it can be termed as science. Sages

were

> > of the view that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon.

All

> > constellations are below the Mercury…and so on….. How this

> concept

> > may now be treated as correct and over the modern science.

> > Same is the story with your

> > >>>>>>>nuclear bomb can be made, do u know

> > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it

enable u

> > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.<<<<<<<

> > Perhaps you are not aware that one school student of USA has

prepared

> > the Bomb just after reading the books from the library. So if I

want

> > to know then I have to study and learn the procedure and have to

> > join the department then I will be able to make a bomb. Or it

makes

> > no difference that instead of me someone else is preparing the

bomb

> > after reading and gaining the knowledge. But who is the astrologer

> > who can reply my questions even after referring the socalled books

> > from any university.

> > Actuly you are not such a pilot as you stated

> > >>>>>>>, we who are in astrology, majorly like such a pilot, we

have

> > got principles made by sages and

> > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately,

not

> > available to us. <<<<<<<<

> > because pilot know that bomb will certainly blast. But you don't

know

> > as to whether your prediction and principles are right or not. You

> > are only armed with blindfaith. So actually you are fighting with

the

> > wooden sword thinking that it will certainly be usefull. You or

> > majority (I will say all) have never tried to peep in to the

history,

> > sociology, religion, human development, sociology and so on that's

> > why you are not aware with the foundation stone of astrological

> > principles. Because any principle can only be formulated on the

basis

> > of the then concept. If you find out the then concept (at the time

> > of sages) then you can findout the reasons (or you may read my

book).

> > You are saying

> > >>>>>>, I m very good in logic and i speak for

> > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of

giving u

> > a lesson.<<<<<<

> > But so far you have not given any logic by which you say that you

are

> > supporting astrology except exposing your blindfaith and filty

> > language to teach me a lesson or settling a score and so on……

> Though

> > Galileo was killed by the church having same mentality to teach

the

> > lesson but ultimately Galileo was right though you may not agree

and

> > may like to support the concept of sages of stationary earth and

so

> > on……..Even our sages have not marked the signs too, which is

> basic

> > requirement of predictive astrology. You claim that you speak for

> > the truth. But it is not so. Because for finding a truth you have

> > to know both sides then you can only judge that what is right. But

> > presently you are not judging but you are only advocating

astrology

> > and that too on the basis of blindfaith without knowing the

> > otherside story and delivering your judgement that you are right

and

> > with the truth. What a fun ? At one hand you say

> > >>>>>>you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will

> > offer my life long assistance to you.<<<<

> > and on the other hand do not want to ponder on the fact as to how

> > these principles were formulated (refer my book). So you are a

lawyer

> > who is defending his client on the basis of only blindfaith and

> > asking CBI to enquire and knowing that facts are against your

client

> > then delivering your judgement that your client is right

(astrology

> > is of scientific nature, it's predictions come true and it can

> > describe ur looks without watching u. ) and not prepared to answer

> > so many queries raised by me. So how you can be with truth, you

are

> > only with blindfaith. Otherwise leave aside describing looks you

> > can't even predict as to which horoscope is belongs to a man or

to a

> > woman (refer my questions). So I am hesitant in saying that if you

> > are really with truth then you must be on my side. And that too

not

> > blindly but after reading thoroughly then you can be a judge and

able

> > to decide as to whether I am right or not.

> >

> > However, It would be better if you can offer some reply on my

earlier

> > points or you may fix the points. But keep patience do not be in

> > hurry and read the blog, think, interact take your own time and

then

> > reply and behave like a moderator and be open for any views.

Because

> > you can expel me from your forum (even you can say it or stop

> > answering) but my views are stored in the form of book, which is

not

> > only being liked in India but abroad too (refer my first blog). I

am

> > always here or you can just email me in my absence.

> > At present there is no pending mail from your forum. I will wait

for

> > any comments. So don't say I am avoiding discussion.

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > 2-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

> > litsol@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Mr. Sanat,

> > >

> > > How old u r ? Why dont u understand if there is no good library

of

> > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a science.

> > >

> > > Same way, like u know, nuclear bomb can be made, do u know

> > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it

enable

> > u

> > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.

> > >

> > > now, think of a pilot, who gets already made nuclear bombs,

flies

> > his

> > > aircraft and finally hits the target, he is not concerned with

> > > procedure of making the nuclear bombs, we who are in astrology,

> > > majorly like such a pilot, we have got principles made by sages

and

> > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately,

not

> > > available to us.

> > >

> > > In my first mail, I offered my assistance to you if u r

positive,

> > and

> > > if u devote urself to rediscover forgotten procedures. I didnt

read

> > > last para of ur mail where u have written AIDS..etc..

> > >

> > > In the second mail, is after understaing ur psychology , u r not

> > for

> > > descovering, rather, u have made ur ignorance ur asset and

> > > propogating that, If u want to understand what astrology is and

how

> > > scientific it is, u should learn it, u should have an experince

of

> > it.

> > >

> > > regarding the win and defeat, I challanged u, if u have a

malific

> > > interest to defame astrology, I m very good in logic and i speak

> > for

> > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of

giving

> > u

> > > a lesson. but if u r too honest to check what astrololgy, my

help

> > > with respect is always there for u.

> > >

> > > I m not a person who avoids debates.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Lalit.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit Ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > Thanks for your two mails.

> > > > Though I avoid writing in groups because it is very difficult

to

> > > > handle the mails and sometimes arguments may heart feelings,

> > which

> > > is

> > > > not my intention.

> > > >

> > > > In first mail you want to assist me and stated " I will offer

my

> > > life

> > > > long assistance to you. " but in your second mail just after

one

> > > hour

> > > > you

> > > > say " I take up this challange, I m sure of my win, as u have

to

> > > > defeat that's why god send u to this group, where u will have

to

> > > face

> > > > me. Dont run away from the ground " .

> > > >

> > > > It appears you are very much hearted with my blog. So let me

> > clear

> > > > first that I am neither interested in defeating you nor in

> > > defending

> > > > myself on wrong footings. More over I do not want to disturb

> > your

> > > > day to day discussion, if every body is harping on the same

> > tune.

> > > > Hence I asked readers to write me directly on my email.

> > > >

> > > > Like others, you have not answered the queries but at one side

> > you

> > > > show your inability and stated that

> > > >

> > > > >>>Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our

> > > > literature is not available containing the procedures,third

> > problem

> > > > is we are a irresponsible selfish community whose life

revolves

> > > > around survival

> > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure oriented,

we

> > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried to

> > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to

share

> > our

> > > > knowledge easily.<<<<<

> > > >

> > > > whereas on the other hand you say that

> > > >

> > > > >>>>still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

> > come

> > > > true and it can describe ur looks without watching u. <<<<

> > > >

> > > > So if astrology is scientific then how you can say

that " problem

> > is

> > > > blind guruism " and if " literature is not available containing

the

> > > > procedures " then how you can say that it is scienfic. But for

> > your

> > > > kind information non-availability of literature is only an

escape

> > > > route. Because in primitive age either there were stone

carvings

> > > > which is difficult to destroy and there were system of hearsay

> > > > (shruitigyan) by which sages pass on the knowledge to next

> > > > generation. Thus this knowledge is always safe in the brain of

> > > > students (shishya). Knowledge of sages were well spreaded in

> > south

> > > > India, Mesopotamia, Greece etc. So don't take any escape

route.

> > > >

> > > > Your statement that " we are a irresponsible selfish community

> > whose

> > > > life revolves around survival " is not only applicable to

> > Indians

> > > > but it is human nature who always want to survive and oppose

> > any

> > > > other view. Otherwise Galileo would not have been imprisoned

> > > for

> > > > his views of solar system which was against the Bible (it is

> > also

> > > > against every religion), Or you would not have bombed me if my

> > > views

> > > > are not against your views. Hence correct interpretation may

be

> > > > that most of us are not logical and only governed by age-old

> > > > traditions without applying our minds and prepare to oppose

for

> > any

> > > > view which is against our mindset.

> > > >

> > > > Your statement " we were never procedure oriented, we always

> > > concerned

> > > > with end results " is totally right in my opinion because this

is

> > > our

> > > > tradition to believe sages, Brahmins, astrologers etc. who are

> > > > convincing us with some result or with some false hopes. They

> > > created

> > > > strong caste system and enabled a part of society for reading

and

> > > > questioning some thing. Thus unknowingly you are also

following

> > the

> > > > same tradition and instead of being a procedure oriented to

know

> > > as

> > > > to whether astrology is scientific or not you are just

> > > > saying " astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

come

> > > > true. "

> > > >

> > > > How you can say " we dont want to share our knowledge easily. " .

> > > > Teacher is always prepared to teach, parents always prepared

to

> > > teach

> > > > even our friends (if you want you can include me) are

prepared to

> > > > teach, and books who are our best friends are always prepared

to

> > > > teach us. But cunning business oriented astrologers are not

> > > prepared

> > > > to disclose his secrets, as to how he is befooling some

> > individuals

> > > > with weak mentality.

> > > >

> > > > If their may be a slightest truth in predictive astrology

then I

> > > > would be the first man who may be happy, Because I am actually

> > > > associated with this since long and I have even designed a

> > > horoscope

> > > > which comprises all astrological principles in single

horoscope

> > > > (which is also given in my Book).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So far your statement " it's predictions come true

> > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u. " is

> > > > concerned, and you are not prepared to answer the questions

> > raised

> > > > in my blog, because if you will answer these questions then

you

> > can

> > > > realize that astrology is science or not; then I will like to

say

> > > > that can you or any reader can decide about

> > > >

> > > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

> > > > 2 When he / she will be married.

> > > > 3 When he / she will be father / mother

> > > > 4 When he / she will die.

> > > >

> > > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other

> > > predictive

> > > > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways

and

> > > > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

> > > > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof

> > principle

> > > > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further

> > > > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then

they

> > may

> > > > ask him above 4 questions and/or 10 questions raised in my

blog,

> > or

> > > > about the position of Rahu / Ketu then they will realize the

> > truth.

> > > >

> > > > So far your statemet " you should do some work to find out

these

> > > > procedures, I will offer my life long assistance to you. " is

> > > > concerned, I will like to say that I am associated with

astrology

> > > > since +35 years and after too much digging I find the

procedures

> > as

> > > > to how all astrological principles were formulated along with

> > many

> > > > scientific concept, which have been included in my original

> > > > books " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat " (Hindi) and " Astrology

a

> > > > science or myth " (English). Hence you need not to give life

long

> > > > assistance but it is more then enough if you go through the

book.

> > > >

> > > > Yes I will like to add one more point that so far many

> > astrologers

> > > > and readers have gone through the book but non of them has

ever

> > > > intimated that he is not convinced with the factual position,

but

> > > > contrary to this every one praised the book, which is first

book

> > > with

> > > > such scientific analysis.

> > > >

> > > > Other reader may directly write on my email

> > > > sanatkumar_jain@, because I do not want to disturb your

> > > > discussion, because when some one wants to be misguided then

why

> > I

> > > > should worry. But it is my social duty to inform some truth,

> > > Because

> > > > they are not aware with the otherside story, and it is up to

them

> > > to

> > > > decide, but definitely I am not interested in the business of

> > > > defeating or defending. I am only interested in the Truth.

> > > >

> > > > What to say for " Though i dont know much astrology, I m ready

to

> > > > enter into a debate " . Though I don't think that you don't know

> > > > astrology. But it is true that many innocent persons who

really

> > > don't

> > > > know about the astrology; prepared to discuss as to how some

> > > > predictions turned to be true and so on without any counter

> > > arguments

> > > > ………….

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Waiting for your comments. Thanks once again,

> > > >

> > > > Yours,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sanat

> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >

> > > > (If you will allow then I will answer one by one to other

mails

> > > also)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

> > > > <litsol@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,

> > > > >

> > > > > U deserve our regards, Thanx a lot for posting this mail to

the

> > > > > group. however, i w'd like to let u know, u r not alone who

> > > thinks

> > > > > like this and carries same questions in his mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our

> > > > literature

> > > > > is not available containing the procedures,third problem is

we

> > > are

> > > > a

> > > > > irresponsible selfish community whose life revolves around

> > > survival

> > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure

oriented, we

> > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried

to

> > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to

share

> > > our

> > > > > knowledge easily.

> > > > >

> > > > > still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

come

> > > > true

> > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u.

> > > > >

> > > > > you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will

> > > offer

> > > > my

> > > > > life long assistance to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

> > some

> > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied

> > in

> > > > > depth

> > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed

like

> > > > this.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as

to

> > > > whether

> > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

science

> > > due

> > > > to

> > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the

sentiments of

> > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> > want

> > > > to

> > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

us

> > > > > examine

> > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> > > > have

> > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > > standing

> > > > > in

> > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is

> > a

> > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> > call

> > > > an

> > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> > early

> > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > > > religious

> > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > > Moon,

> > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

> > only

> > > > > sages

> > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

to

> > > > > predict

> > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > > grabbing

> > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and

Ketu.

> > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and

its

> > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> > donations

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu,

which is

> > > > still

> > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > > > everybody

> > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > > situation,

> > > > it

> > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict

the

> > > fate

> > > > of

> > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > > > fate

> > > > > of

> > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> > various

> > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then

knowledge of

> > > > sages

> > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > > > principles

> > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > > > percolated

> > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier

to

> > > learn

> > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > > > were

> > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> > Western

> > > > > system.

> > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> > group

> > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

> > due

> > > to

> > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always

try

> > to

> > > > fit

> > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological

principle

> > > > within

> > > > > a

> > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

faith

> > > > etc.,

> > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > > > astrological

> > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

> > diabolical

> > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

fluke)

> > > may

> > > > > come

> > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > > > self

> > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle

on

> > > other

> > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > > > mislead,

> > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> > find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> > (say

> > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > > astrology.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

> > the

> > > > > level

> > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what

procedure

> > was

> > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

Vinshottary

> > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles

then

> > > > > following

> > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > > subpara).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

> > seven

> > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > > stationary

> > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is

enmity

> > and

> > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> > of

> > > > > each

> > > > > > other) ?

> > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

demons

> > > over

> > > > > > nector after sea-churning………..

> > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

(full,

> > > > > quarter

> > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect

on

> > > > seventh

> > > > > > house) ?

> > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> > exalted

> > > > and

> > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg.

of

> > > Aries

> > > > > > sign) ?

> > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when

duration

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > day is more in comparison to night……

> > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > > hub

> > > > > of

> > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha

whereas

> > > Venus

> > > > > (a

> > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the

effect

> > of

> > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> > > > > between

> > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

> > week

> > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > > structure

> > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> > motion

> > > of

> > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> > 180

> > > > deg.

> > > > > > apart?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of

eclipse ?

> > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> month……….

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final

question as

> > > to

> > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

> > gave

> > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that

entire

> > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong

concept of

> > > > > > Universe.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

then

> > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed

by

> > > sage

> > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is

in

> > the

> > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also

believed in

> > > all

> > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

> > any

> > > > old

> > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas

Moon

> > is

> > > > > beyond

> > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury

and

> > > Moon.

> > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > > are

> > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self

studying

> > > > > astrology

> > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> > correct

> > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> > combination

> > > > is

> > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > > and

> > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > > > concept

> > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling

in

> > > view

> > > > of

> > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > > concept

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > > contains

> > > > > the

> > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles

on

> > the

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> > sages

> > > > to

> > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published

in

> > > > English

> > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > > can

> > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change

the

> > > face

> > > > of

> > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

know

> > > > more

> > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you

> > may

> > > > send

> > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > > produktID=1759836

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > > > 20kumar%

> > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> > > nor

> > > > > they

> > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > > presence

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

the

> > > > > concept

> > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > in

> > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > within

> > > > 14

> > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> > But

> > > > > nobody

> > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> > when

> > > > > Sun,

> > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > > respectively

> > > > > on

> > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun,

Moon

> > and

> > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on

03-

> > 03-

> > > > 1988

> > > > > (

> > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > > > eclipses

> > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

more

> > > then

> > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> > 79.04

> > > > > deg.

> > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon

were

> > at

> > > > > 76.49

> > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> > > > 15.14

> > > > > > deg. away).

> > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > > > also

> > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred

> > at

> > > > the

> > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

> > was

> > > > not

> > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the

basis of

> > > > > myth).

> > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > > > Moon

> > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > > But

> > > > > As

> > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> > 1985

> > > > and

> > > > > 3-

> > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > > > solar

> > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full

solar

> > > > > eclipses

> > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

> > 166

> > > > > degree

> > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> > > possible.

> > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> > almanac.

> > > > > Thus

> > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > > respectively.

> > > > > All

> > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > > > fundamental

> > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> > want

> > > > then

> > > > > I

> > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> > detecting

> > > > > them.

> > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

> > > but

> > > > in

> > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy

> > +

> > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

> > psychology

> > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive

age)

> > > > played

> > > > > an

> > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

to

> > > > > immense

> > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > > appears

> > > > > to

> > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> > > > agree

> > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided

> > as

> > > > was

> > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

> > try

> > > to

> > > > > do

> > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according

to

> > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

modifying

> > > that

> > > > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our

fate,

> > > even

> > > > > then

> > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating

a

> > > > > cascading

> > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> > every

> > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > > pre-

> > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > > every

> > > > > Tom,

> > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> > good

> > > > deed

> > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > > change.

> > > > > You

> > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > > never

> > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot

> > be

> > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction

is

> > > also

> > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > > > prewritten)

> > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> > because

> > > in

> > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > > altered

> > > > > but

> > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked

prediction

> > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed

transit

> > of

> > > > > > planets?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> > assured

> > > > > that

> > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

Only

> > > > > astronomy

> > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were

used

> > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it

appears

> > > > > correct.

> > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

myth.

> > > > Still

> > > > > if

> > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

The

> > > > James

> > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize

> > to

> > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-

mail

> > and

> > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used

> > > to

> > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> > > business

> > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

this

> > > sort

> > > > > of

> > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in

this

> > > > regard

> > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> > information

> > > > of

> > > > > > Universe, solar system.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > > interaction

> > > > > on

> > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know

> > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> > falling

> > > > in

> > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > > (Astrology

> > > > > Is

> > > > > > Damaging Society).

> > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > > > > Gwalior

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

> > creating

> > > > > > problems to moderator

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanatji,

 

There are many astrologers who can predict correctly applying astro

principles to the charts.

 

Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I request all

to participate.

 

Maybe that will convince Sanatji -

Regards

Kiran

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> Dear Nair,

> Thanks for your mail.

> I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

>

> >>>>>i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of ur

> books like salman rushdy or taslima<<<<<

>

> and secondly my book is not a fiction like salman etc…. Hence I am

> not bothered to promote the book. Because it is the work of the

> publisher because ultimately he earns from the sale. Secondly when

> book is already being sold in USA, UK, Europe then what I have to do

> by interacting with some small group.

>

> >>>>>>>rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know

> that sun is stationary .<<<<<<

> Above statement followed with many lines show that you are only

> saying what you have heard from astrologers, who are expert in

> befooling others, but you have not taken pains to read any

> scripture. That's why you are asking me to refer Aryabhatia,

> Bhaskaracharya etc.

>

> First you even don't know that astrological principles were not

> formulated by aryabhatt or bhaskaracharya. I think you even don't

> know when they were. So for your kind information Aryabhatt (6th

> Century) and bhaskaracharya (12th century) has nothing to do with

> astrology (predictive). They are astronomers (as per present

> convention). Whereas astrological principles were formulated by sage

> Parashar around 200 BC. And that too after adopting the concept of

> sign from Greeks. You may read " Vishnu Puran " written by Sage

> parashar himself, where he mention that Earth is stationary and Sun

> hoovers over it at a distance of 1 lakh yojan (about 14.4 lakh km)

> and is it near then Moon……….and so on…….(Read my book for detail

> because it is not possible to write the matter of 350 pages on this

> mail).

>

> >>>>>>>> even bhaskaracharya says abt the eclipses and

> its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

> moon .<<<<<<<<<

> I am not saying that their was no eclipse, But please read any

> scripture as to why there is eclipse and how to save the sun from the

> clutched of Ketu after bathing and donation etc. Bhaskaracharya and

> other astronomers were only calculating the correctness of the

> transit and every eclipse was worked out on the basis of position of

> Rahu – Ketu. Because concept of Rahuketu was only devised on the

> basis of eclipse. So do not try to get some escape route.

>

> >>>>> circumference of each planet has been assessed by them<<<<<<<<

> Is it correct scientifically.

>

> >>>>>gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery

> planets>>>>>>>

> They are not planets. These are only terms used for deriving some

> prediction. Have you read any scripture where these were mentioned

> along with Sun, Moon etc…like planets.

>

> >>>>>>>> Can u show any

> planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy…….<<<<<

> Now astrologer are terming them as intersection point of the orbit of

> Sun and Moon (refer any astrological book) only on the basis of

> eclipse. And it is not a board of Delhi, But they are well mentioned

> in scriptures.

>

> >>>>>>> our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in

> correct parlance .<<<<<<

> Where you find it. I have asked so many questions relating to

> principle, calculation and prediction but you have not answered a

> single question. If prediction is correct then can you answer as to

> whether

>

> 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

> 2 When he / she will be married.

> 3 When he / she will be father / mother

> 4 When he / she will die.

>

> Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive

> answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and

> secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

> governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof principle

> for any prediction then you can also intimate for further

> interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then they may

> ask him above 4 questions.

>

> >>>>>>>>>>> But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind

> it there are methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some

> times only rasi dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all

> signifcance of planets<<<<<<<

>

> It is your right if you don't want to talk with me but it is my duty

> to answer you otherwise your moderator will charge me that I am

> avoiding any discussion. Perhaps you are even not aware that rasi

> was not created by our sages but it was borrowed from Greek ……..

>

> >>>>>>>u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is

> more than 100 of astro systems r there .<<<<<

> I have spent more then 35 years in studying the astrology and want to

> learn some thing from you. But you are not prepared to even answer my

> questions then how I will learn.

> And if there are 100 astro systems but none of them is able to

> predict correctly. Otherwise you can give answer to my questions.

> Secondly we are humanbeings and always afraid with unknown future

> hence it is our weakness to know about future so that we may protect

> ourselves. But if any one system out 1oo systems is correct then

> what is the need of applying the mind to find the correct answer

> which we already know. Thus your statement is itself confirm that

> many systems were only devised to find the truth which was not

> available with previous systems.

>

> >>>>>we find there is 1000s of

> books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid

> people are claiming they knows everything and asking us to

> prove .<<<<<<

> If for the sake of discussion I admit that no body has gone through

> the books lying in library then why astrologer may not go to read

> them first and then come forward with some correct prediction.

> Instead of befooling innocent persons like you with half knowledge

> (of astrologers).

>

>

> >>>>>>…………… even the therey of evolution is not fool

> proof………………..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>

> What is science. Science is a continuous process of learning and

> devising new principles without any attachment with any old

> principle. So if any theory is not final, then it makes no difference

> because it will be finalized in years to come.

>

> It would have been better if you come forward with some solid

> answers of my question. But any how thanks for your comments.

>

> Yours truly,

> Sanat

> Sanatkumar_jain

>

> 4-12-2007

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sunil nair "

> <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hare ramakrishna,

> >

> > dear sanat kumar

> >

> >

> >

> > i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of

> ur

> > books like salman rushdy or taslima .

> >

> > If u want complete understanding of jyothish u can visit me ,as

> this

> > grp space u can avoid misusing .

> >

> >

> >

> > rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know that

> sun

> > is stationary .but for calculation purpose as jyothisha is based on

> > calculation and practical purpose they use so many things which may

> be

> > not true according to modern science .So this vakra or stationary

> > motions u may not find in modern astronomy .same is case of venus

> and

> > mercury .Its all based on the inhabitant of earth and his view .But

> u

> > see the distance from earth is correctly measured and may be very

> small

> > negligible error in their calculation with modern astronomy .U can

> refer

> > atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where it

> says its

> > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force

> called

> > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

> eclipses and

> > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

> moon .

> >

> >

> >

> > But its all part of ganita system in jyothish which is used by

> panchanga

> > makers who predicts even all eclipses correctly may since last 2

> > millinaiums ,so dont say rishis dont hav scintific back ground and

> even

> > the movements and circumference of each planet has been assessed by

> them

> > .

> >

> >

> >

> > And also they inclide so many other planets also like rahu and ketu

> and

> > gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery

> planets

> > and it has got its own place in astrology and prashna .Can u show

> any

> > planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy .Again i wanted to

> tell

> > u their basis of planets need not be the real planets as like a

> traffic

> > lite (automatic) controls the traffic ,its only a medium they

> used .And

> > dont confuse with dailectical style with actual facts >when we r

> > arriving to delhi by train we say delhi has come ,does it mean that

> > delhi is coming to u .Also dont confuse sign board with actual

> place .if

> > u get down to delhi by flight may be u can see ,welcome to delhi --

> that

> > measn is that sign board is delhi ??

> >

> > Yes ,i agree some logic is lost but since its a pracical thing and

> in

> > our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in correct

> > parlance .

> >

> >

> >

> > But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind it there

> are

> > methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some times only

> rasi

> > dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all signifcance of

> planets .But

> > u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is more

> than 100

> > of astro systems r there .

> >

> > So first u study and come with charts for arguments than writing

> sugar

> > and licking the paper and complaing that this paper is not sweet .

> >

> > I hav 1000s of question abt any science ,if u refer back my mails u

> can

> > see it ,some of that .

> >

> >

> >

> > But no question kovoor model or edamaruku model of indian atheist

> > society as they them self proved wrong and was lieing .Kovoor said

> he

> > studied astro ,here in our full life still we find there is 1000s of

> > books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid

> people

> > are claiming they knows everything and asking us to prove .

> >

> > Can sceince made food from carbon and hydregen and oxygen as all

> food

> > is carbo hydrates ,can they produce rice and wheat seperately ,But

> we r

> > not fools to argue with them because there is some accepted facts

> >other

> > wise if u try u may get soda water only .But that doesnot make their

> > therey wrong .Did sceince able to expalin the black holes(kaalika

> sakti

> > ) which sucks matter as big as big planets and making a emptyness

> And

> > even the therey of evolution is not fool proof ,also the first life

> in

> > earth ,they make some conditions and say its based on this

> conditions

> > remaining the same as a pre requisite to work the theorey ,why so

> if all

> > is 2+2=4 .then tell me from where the first cell is generated ??

> How the

> > same energy matter is differring on physical properties ,salt is

> > different and sugar is differnet ,and all is finaly part of total

> energy

> > in this universe ????what is ur logic .Why some people r only

> allergic

> > to some medicines ??why some kids become autistic after

> vaccinated????

> >

> > if science so plain and simple and does not hav different

> diamentions.

> >

> > But u must explain all this without asking any pre conditions and

> one

> > condition is allowed to explain all ur logic .Dont take different

> stand

> > for each answer.

> >

> >

> >

> > regrds sunil nair .

> >

> > Om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit Ji,

> > > Namaskar,

> > > Thanks for your mails of 28 and 29th. Though I have given a very

> > > comprehensive reply of your mail dt. 26th Nov. But you have not

> > > replied pointwise. If you are not ready to give pointwise reply

> then

> > > what is the use of discussion and how will you

> > >

> > > >>>>>>> i m very eager to settle scores with u by

> > > using ur own logic.<<<<<<<<

> > >

> > > settle the score. (do not think that by evading the point and

> using

> > > the filthy language you have settled the score.) I am not bouncing

> > > the questions / querry without any substance with me. So there is

> no

> > > question of evading and academic discussion

> > >

> > > >>>>>>> I have collected some intersting informations abt Mr.

> Sanat.

> > > He has been provoking people simultaneously evading direct debate

> for

> > > last more than two years.<<<<<<<

> > >

> > > I don't know what sort of interesting info. you have collected abt

> > > myself. But I am always ready for any discussion and I always

> reply

> > > even mail be derogatory or going to settle the score. If you will

> > > intimate me the site / mail which I have not replied then I will

> be

> > > happy and will definitely reply. It is possible that either I have

> > > not come across the mail because I do not reply the mails between

> > > group members and do not visit the forum regularly, if there is

> not

> > > a continuity of discussion. Because it is not correct to break the

> > > planning against me. (As Aavesh is writing to Ms Nalini like " …

> > > jokers like Mr Sanat…….. So where is the point which I should

> > reply).

> > > However, to avoid any hardship I always quote that anyone can

> > > directly write to me on my email because it is also possible that

> I

> > > may have left the site. So your comment is quite baseless. Even I

> am

> > > replying your mails (though late because I am answering one by

> one)

> > > even after your filthy language. Because you are always in hurry,

> > > whereas the first sentence of my first blog say " ponder " means

> take

> > > your time and then write. If I am not present then you can always

> > > call me through my email. Because I read all my emails but may

> not be

> > > able to read all messages in the forum/site etc.

> > >

> > > I have replied every mail of this forum and at present not a

> single

> > > message is pending with me. How you can charge that I am evading

> > > direct discussion. But their must be some points. What sort of

> > > reply you want if there is nothing in the mail. I have replied you

> > > once, to Sh. Chandrashekhar ji, to M/s Kiran ji, to Aaveshji. But

> do

> > > you find any reply of my questions in their mails. Though Kiranji

> has

> > > tried somewhat but even she has not replied on my points. I have

> > > replied your earlier mail but you have not replied pointwise but

> > > came with some baseless defence.

> > >

> > > >>>>> if there is no good library of

> > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a

> science.<<<<<

> > > But I can read the physics from any other library. But if

> > > any book has those principles which have no support in any

> library of

> > > the world and whatever is being claimed is only based on faith

> > > towards sages and that too may also be wrong (though it took

> > > thousands of years) then how it can be termed as science. Sages

> were

> > > of the view that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon.

> All

> > > constellations are below the Mercury…and so on….. How this

> > concept

> > > may now be treated as correct and over the modern science.

> > > Same is the story with your

> > > >>>>>>>nuclear bomb can be made, do u know

> > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it

> enable u

> > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.<<<<<<<

> > > Perhaps you are not aware that one school student of USA has

> prepared

> > > the Bomb just after reading the books from the library. So if I

> want

> > > to know then I have to study and learn the procedure and have to

> > > join the department then I will be able to make a bomb. Or it

> makes

> > > no difference that instead of me someone else is preparing the

> bomb

> > > after reading and gaining the knowledge. But who is the astrologer

> > > who can reply my questions even after referring the socalled books

> > > from any university.

> > > Actuly you are not such a pilot as you stated

> > > >>>>>>>, we who are in astrology, majorly like such a pilot, we

> have

> > > got principles made by sages and

> > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately,

> not

> > > available to us. <<<<<<<<

> > > because pilot know that bomb will certainly blast. But you don't

> know

> > > as to whether your prediction and principles are right or not. You

> > > are only armed with blindfaith. So actually you are fighting with

> the

> > > wooden sword thinking that it will certainly be usefull. You or

> > > majority (I will say all) have never tried to peep in to the

> history,

> > > sociology, religion, human development, sociology and so on that's

> > > why you are not aware with the foundation stone of astrological

> > > principles. Because any principle can only be formulated on the

> basis

> > > of the then concept. If you find out the then concept (at the time

> > > of sages) then you can findout the reasons (or you may read my

> book).

> > > You are saying

> > > >>>>>>, I m very good in logic and i speak for

> > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of

> giving u

> > > a lesson.<<<<<<

> > > But so far you have not given any logic by which you say that you

> are

> > > supporting astrology except exposing your blindfaith and filty

> > > language to teach me a lesson or settling a score and so on……

> > Though

> > > Galileo was killed by the church having same mentality to teach

> the

> > > lesson but ultimately Galileo was right though you may not agree

> and

> > > may like to support the concept of sages of stationary earth and

> so

> > > on……..Even our sages have not marked the signs too, which is

> > basic

> > > requirement of predictive astrology. You claim that you speak for

> > > the truth. But it is not so. Because for finding a truth you have

> > > to know both sides then you can only judge that what is right. But

> > > presently you are not judging but you are only advocating

> astrology

> > > and that too on the basis of blindfaith without knowing the

> > > otherside story and delivering your judgement that you are right

> and

> > > with the truth. What a fun ? At one hand you say

> > > >>>>>>you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will

> > > offer my life long assistance to you.<<<<

> > > and on the other hand do not want to ponder on the fact as to how

> > > these principles were formulated (refer my book). So you are a

> lawyer

> > > who is defending his client on the basis of only blindfaith and

> > > asking CBI to enquire and knowing that facts are against your

> client

> > > then delivering your judgement that your client is right

> (astrology

> > > is of scientific nature, it's predictions come true and it can

> > > describe ur looks without watching u. ) and not prepared to answer

> > > so many queries raised by me. So how you can be with truth, you

> are

> > > only with blindfaith. Otherwise leave aside describing looks you

> > > can't even predict as to which horoscope is belongs to a man or

> to a

> > > woman (refer my questions). So I am hesitant in saying that if you

> > > are really with truth then you must be on my side. And that too

> not

> > > blindly but after reading thoroughly then you can be a judge and

> able

> > > to decide as to whether I am right or not.

> > >

> > > However, It would be better if you can offer some reply on my

> earlier

> > > points or you may fix the points. But keep patience do not be in

> > > hurry and read the blog, think, interact take your own time and

> then

> > > reply and behave like a moderator and be open for any views.

> Because

> > > you can expel me from your forum (even you can say it or stop

> > > answering) but my views are stored in the form of book, which is

> not

> > > only being liked in India but abroad too (refer my first blog). I

> am

> > > always here or you can just email me in my absence.

> > > At present there is no pending mail from your forum. I will wait

> for

> > > any comments. So don't say I am avoiding discussion.

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Sanat

> > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > 2-12-2007

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

> > > litsol@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,

> > > >

> > > > How old u r ? Why dont u understand if there is no good library

> of

> > > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a science.

> > > >

> > > > Same way, like u know, nuclear bomb can be made, do u know

> > > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it

> enable

> > > u

> > > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.

> > > >

> > > > now, think of a pilot, who gets already made nuclear bombs,

> flies

> > > his

> > > > aircraft and finally hits the target, he is not concerned with

> > > > procedure of making the nuclear bombs, we who are in astrology,

> > > > majorly like such a pilot, we have got principles made by sages

> and

> > > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately,

> not

> > > > available to us.

> > > >

> > > > In my first mail, I offered my assistance to you if u r

> positive,

> > > and

> > > > if u devote urself to rediscover forgotten procedures. I didnt

> read

> > > > last para of ur mail where u have written AIDS..etc..

> > > >

> > > > In the second mail, is after understaing ur psychology , u r not

> > > for

> > > > descovering, rather, u have made ur ignorance ur asset and

> > > > propogating that, If u want to understand what astrology is and

> how

> > > > scientific it is, u should learn it, u should have an experince

> of

> > > it.

> > > >

> > > > regarding the win and defeat, I challanged u, if u have a

> malific

> > > > interest to defame astrology, I m very good in logic and i speak

> > > for

> > > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of

> giving

> > > u

> > > > a lesson. but if u r too honest to check what astrololgy, my

> help

> > > > with respect is always there for u.

> > > >

> > > > I m not a person who avoids debates.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Lalit.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit Ji,

> > > > > Namaskar,

> > > > > Thanks for your two mails.

> > > > > Though I avoid writing in groups because it is very difficult

> to

> > > > > handle the mails and sometimes arguments may heart feelings,

> > > which

> > > > is

> > > > > not my intention.

> > > > >

> > > > > In first mail you want to assist me and stated " I will offer

> my

> > > > life

> > > > > long assistance to you. " but in your second mail just after

> one

> > > > hour

> > > > > you

> > > > > say " I take up this challange, I m sure of my win, as u have

> to

> > > > > defeat that's why god send u to this group, where u will have

> to

> > > > face

> > > > > me. Dont run away from the ground " .

> > > > >

> > > > > It appears you are very much hearted with my blog. So let me

> > > clear

> > > > > first that I am neither interested in defeating you nor in

> > > > defending

> > > > > myself on wrong footings. More over I do not want to disturb

> > > your

> > > > > day to day discussion, if every body is harping on the same

> > > tune.

> > > > > Hence I asked readers to write me directly on my email.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like others, you have not answered the queries but at one side

> > > you

> > > > > show your inability and stated that

> > > > >

> > > > > >>>Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our

> > > > > literature is not available containing the procedures,third

> > > problem

> > > > > is we are a irresponsible selfish community whose life

> revolves

> > > > > around survival

> > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure oriented,

> we

> > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried to

> > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to

> share

> > > our

> > > > > knowledge easily.<<<<<

> > > > >

> > > > > whereas on the other hand you say that

> > > > >

> > > > > >>>>still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

> > > come

> > > > > true and it can describe ur looks without watching u. <<<<

> > > > >

> > > > > So if astrology is scientific then how you can say

> that " problem

> > > is

> > > > > blind guruism " and if " literature is not available containing

> the

> > > > > procedures " then how you can say that it is scienfic. But for

> > > your

> > > > > kind information non-availability of literature is only an

> escape

> > > > > route. Because in primitive age either there were stone

> carvings

> > > > > which is difficult to destroy and there were system of hearsay

> > > > > (shruitigyan) by which sages pass on the knowledge to next

> > > > > generation. Thus this knowledge is always safe in the brain of

> > > > > students (shishya). Knowledge of sages were well spreaded in

> > > south

> > > > > India, Mesopotamia, Greece etc. So don't take any escape

> route.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your statement that " we are a irresponsible selfish community

> > > whose

> > > > > life revolves around survival " is not only applicable to

> > > Indians

> > > > > but it is human nature who always want to survive and oppose

> > > any

> > > > > other view. Otherwise Galileo would not have been imprisoned

> > > > for

> > > > > his views of solar system which was against the Bible (it is

> > > also

> > > > > against every religion), Or you would not have bombed me if my

> > > > views

> > > > > are not against your views. Hence correct interpretation may

> be

> > > > > that most of us are not logical and only governed by age-old

> > > > > traditions without applying our minds and prepare to oppose

> for

> > > any

> > > > > view which is against our mindset.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your statement " we were never procedure oriented, we always

> > > > concerned

> > > > > with end results " is totally right in my opinion because this

> is

> > > > our

> > > > > tradition to believe sages, Brahmins, astrologers etc. who are

> > > > > convincing us with some result or with some false hopes. They

> > > > created

> > > > > strong caste system and enabled a part of society for reading

> and

> > > > > questioning some thing. Thus unknowingly you are also

> following

> > > the

> > > > > same tradition and instead of being a procedure oriented to

> know

> > > > as

> > > > > to whether astrology is scientific or not you are just

> > > > > saying " astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

> come

> > > > > true. "

> > > > >

> > > > > How you can say " we dont want to share our knowledge easily. " .

> > > > > Teacher is always prepared to teach, parents always prepared

> to

> > > > teach

> > > > > even our friends (if you want you can include me) are

> prepared to

> > > > > teach, and books who are our best friends are always prepared

> to

> > > > > teach us. But cunning business oriented astrologers are not

> > > > prepared

> > > > > to disclose his secrets, as to how he is befooling some

> > > individuals

> > > > > with weak mentality.

> > > > >

> > > > > If their may be a slightest truth in predictive astrology

> then I

> > > > > would be the first man who may be happy, Because I am actually

> > > > > associated with this since long and I have even designed a

> > > > horoscope

> > > > > which comprises all astrological principles in single

> horoscope

> > > > > (which is also given in my Book).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So far your statement " it's predictions come true

> > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u. " is

> > > > > concerned, and you are not prepared to answer the questions

> > > raised

> > > > > in my blog, because if you will answer these questions then

> you

> > > can

> > > > > realize that astrology is science or not; then I will like to

> say

> > > > > that can you or any reader can decide about

> > > > >

> > > > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

> > > > > 2 When he / she will be married.

> > > > > 3 When he / she will be father / mother

> > > > > 4 When he / she will die.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other

> > > > predictive

> > > > > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways

> and

> > > > > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

> > > > > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof

> > > principle

> > > > > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further

> > > > > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then

> they

> > > may

> > > > > ask him above 4 questions and/or 10 questions raised in my

> blog,

> > > or

> > > > > about the position of Rahu / Ketu then they will realize the

> > > truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > So far your statemet " you should do some work to find out

> these

> > > > > procedures, I will offer my life long assistance to you. " is

> > > > > concerned, I will like to say that I am associated with

> astrology

> > > > > since +35 years and after too much digging I find the

> procedures

> > > as

> > > > > to how all astrological principles were formulated along with

> > > many

> > > > > scientific concept, which have been included in my original

> > > > > books " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat " (Hindi) and " Astrology

> a

> > > > > science or myth " (English). Hence you need not to give life

> long

> > > > > assistance but it is more then enough if you go through the

> book.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes I will like to add one more point that so far many

> > > astrologers

> > > > > and readers have gone through the book but non of them has

> ever

> > > > > intimated that he is not convinced with the factual position,

> but

> > > > > contrary to this every one praised the book, which is first

> book

> > > > with

> > > > > such scientific analysis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Other reader may directly write on my email

> > > > > sanatkumar_jain@, because I do not want to disturb your

> > > > > discussion, because when some one wants to be misguided then

> why

> > > I

> > > > > should worry. But it is my social duty to inform some truth,

> > > > Because

> > > > > they are not aware with the otherside story, and it is up to

> them

> > > > to

> > > > > decide, but definitely I am not interested in the business of

> > > > > defeating or defending. I am only interested in the Truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > What to say for " Though i dont know much astrology, I m ready

> to

> > > > > enter into a debate " . Though I don't think that you don't know

> > > > > astrology. But it is true that many innocent persons who

> really

> > > > don't

> > > > > know about the astrology; prepared to discuss as to how some

> > > > > predictions turned to be true and so on without any counter

> > > > arguments

> > > > > ………….

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Waiting for your comments. Thanks once again,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yours,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sanat

> > > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > >

> > > > > (If you will allow then I will answer one by one to other

> mails

> > > > also)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

> > > > > <litsol@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > U deserve our regards, Thanx a lot for posting this mail to

> the

> > > > > > group. however, i w'd like to let u know, u r not alone who

> > > > thinks

> > > > > > like this and carries same questions in his mind.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our

> > > > > literature

> > > > > > is not available containing the procedures,third problem is

> we

> > > > are

> > > > > a

> > > > > > irresponsible selfish community whose life revolves around

> > > > survival

> > > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure

> oriented, we

> > > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried

> to

> > > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to

> share

> > > > our

> > > > > > knowledge easily.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions

> come

> > > > > true

> > > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will

> > > > offer

> > > > > my

> > > > > > life long assistance to you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

> > > some

> > > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

> studied

> > > in

> > > > > > depth

> > > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed

> like

> > > > > this.

> > > > > > So

> > > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as

> to

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

> science

> > > > due

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the

> sentiments of

> > > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> > > want

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

> us

> > > > > > examine

> > > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

> you

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > > > standing

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

> been

> > > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

> is

> > > a

> > > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > > > understand

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

> but

> > > > if

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> > > call

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> > > early

> > > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

> has

> > > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

> (Sun,

> > > > > Moon,

> > > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

> > > only

> > > > > > sages

> > > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

> after

> > > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

> to

> > > > > > predict

> > > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > > > grabbing

> > > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and

> Ketu.

> > > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and

> its

> > > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> > > donations

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu,

> which is

> > > > > still

> > > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > > > > everybody

> > > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > > > situation,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict

> the

> > > > fate

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

> the

> > > > > fate

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> > > various

> > > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then

> knowledge of

> > > > > sages

> > > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > > > > percolated

> > > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier

> to

> > > > learn

> > > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

> principles

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> > > Western

> > > > > > system.

> > > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> > > group

> > > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

> > > due

> > > > to

> > > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always

> try

> > > to

> > > > > fit

> > > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological

> principle

> > > > > within

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

> faith

> > > > > etc.,

> > > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

> > > diabolical

> > > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

> fluke)

> > > > may

> > > > > > come

> > > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

> start

> > > > > self

> > > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle

> on

> > > > other

> > > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > > > > mislead,

> > > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> > > find

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> > > (say

> > > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > > > astrology.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

> > > the

> > > > > > level

> > > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what

> procedure

> > > was

> > > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

> Lordship,

> > > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

> Vinshottary

> > > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles

> then

> > > > > > following

> > > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > > > subpara).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

> > > seven

> > > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > > > stationary

> > > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is

> enmity

> > > and

> > > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

> enemy

> > > of

> > > > > > each

> > > > > > > other) ?

> > > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

> demons

> > > > over

> > > > > > > nector after sea-churning………..

> > > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

> (full,

> > > > > > quarter

> > > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect

> on

> > > > > seventh

> > > > > > > house) ?

> > > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> > > exalted

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg.

> of

> > > > Aries

> > > > > > > sign) ?

> > > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when

> duration

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > day is more in comparison to night……

> > > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

> and

> > > > hub

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha

> whereas

> > > > Venus

> > > > > > (a

> > > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the

> effect

> > > of

> > > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> > > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

> constellations

> > > > > > between

> > > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

> > > week

> > > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > > > structure

> > > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> > > motion

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> > > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> > > 180

> > > > > deg.

> > > > > > > apart?

> > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> > > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of

> eclipse ?

> > > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> > month……….

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final

> question as

> > > > to

> > > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

> > > gave

> > > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that

> entire

> > > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong

> concept of

> > > > > > > Universe.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

> then

> > > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed

> by

> > > > sage

> > > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also

> believed in

> > > > all

> > > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

> > > any

> > > > > old

> > > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas

> Moon

> > > is

> > > > > > beyond

> > > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury

> and

> > > > Moon.

> > > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

> principles

> > > > are

> > > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self

> studying

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> > > correct

> > > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> > > combination

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

> logically

> > > > and

> > > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > > > > concept

> > > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling

> in

> > > > view

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > > > concept

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > > > contains

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles

> on

> > > the

> > > > > > basis

> > > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> > > sages

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published

> in

> > > > > English

> > > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

> You

> > > > can

> > > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change

> the

> > > > face

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

> know

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you

> > > may

> > > > > send

> > > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > > > produktID=1759836

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

> AUB=sanat%

> > > > > 20kumar%

> > > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

> Neptune

> > > > nor

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > > > presence

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

> the

> > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > > within

> > > > > 14

> > > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> > > But

> > > > > > nobody

> > > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> > > when

> > > > > > Sun,

> > > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > > > respectively

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun,

> Moon

> > > and

> > > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on

> 03-

> > > 03-

> > > > > 1988

> > > > > > (

> > > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > > > > eclipses

> > > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

> more

> > > > then

> > > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> > > 79.04

> > > > > > deg.

> > > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon

> were

> > > at

> > > > > > 76.49

> > > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

> was

> > > > > 15.14

> > > > > > > deg. away).

> > > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

> will

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

> occurred

> > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

> > > was

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the

> basis of

> > > > > > myth).

> > > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

> when

> > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

> there.

> > > > But

> > > > > > As

> > > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> > > 1985

> > > > > and

> > > > > > 3-

> > > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

> full

> > > > > solar

> > > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

> degree

> > > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full

> solar

> > > > > > eclipses

> > > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

> > > 166

> > > > > > degree

> > > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> > > > possible.

> > > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> > > almanac.

> > > > > > Thus

> > > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > > > respectively.

> > > > > > All

> > > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> > > want

> > > > > then

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> > > detecting

> > > > > > them.

> > > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

> science

> > > > but

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

> astronomy

> > > +

> > > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

> > > psychology

> > > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive

> age)

> > > > > played

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

> to

> > > > > > immense

> > > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > > > appears

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

> also

> > > > > agree

> > > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

> decided

> > > as

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

> > > try

> > > > to

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according

> to

> > > > pre-

> > > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

> modifying

> > > > that

> > > > > > pre-

> > > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our

> fate,

> > > > even

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating

> a

> > > > > > cascading

> > > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> > > every

> > > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

> say

> > > > pre-

> > > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > > > every

> > > > > > Tom,

> > > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> > > good

> > > > > deed

> > > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > > > change.

> > > > > > You

> > > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

> can

> > > > > never

> > > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

> cannot

> > > be

> > > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction

> is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > > > > prewritten)

> > > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> > > because

> > > > in

> > > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > > > altered

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked

> prediction

> > > can

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed

> transit

> > > of

> > > > > > > planets?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> > > assured

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

> Only

> > > > > > astronomy

> > > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were

> used

> > > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it

> appears

> > > > > > correct.

> > > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

> myth.

> > > > > Still

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

> The

> > > > > James

> > > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

> prize

> > > to

> > > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-

> mail

> > > and

> > > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> > > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

> used

> > > > to

> > > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> > > > business

> > > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

> this

> > > > sort

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in

> this

> > > > > regard

> > > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

> formulate

> > > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> > > information

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Universe, solar system.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > > > interaction

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know

> > > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> > > falling

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > > > (Astrology

> > > > > > Is

> > > > > > > Damaging Society).

> > > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > > > > > Gwalior

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

> > > creating

> > > > > > > problems to moderator

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hare ramakrishna,

dear karanji .

To convince some body we should not discuss it ,as they r not ready to open their eyes and they r convenintly taking some thing from reply and replying ,

so for ur learning purpose u do it

regrds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "kiran.rama" <kiran.rama wrote:>> Dear Sanatji,> > There are many astrologers who can predict correctly applying astro> principles to the charts.> > Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I request all> to participate.> > Maybe that will convince Sanatji - > Regards> Kiran> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> sanatkumar_jain@ wrote:> >> > Dear Nair,> > Thanks for your mail.> > I think there is no harm in knowing many things.> > > > >>>>>i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of ur > > books like salman rushdy or taslima<<<<<> > > > and secondly my book is not a fiction like salman etc…. Hence I am > > not bothered to promote the book. Because it is the work of the > > publisher because ultimately he earns from the sale. Secondly when > > book is already being sold in USA, UK, Europe then what I have to do > > by interacting with some small group.> > > > >>>>>>>rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know > > that sun is stationary .<<<<<<> > Above statement followed with many lines show that you are only > > saying what you have heard from astrologers, who are expert in > > befooling others, but you have not taken pains to read any > > scripture. That's why you are asking me to refer Aryabhatia, > > Bhaskaracharya etc.> > > > First you even don't know that astrological principles were not > > formulated by aryabhatt or bhaskaracharya. I think you even don't > > know when they were. So for your kind information Aryabhatt (6th > > Century) and bhaskaracharya (12th century) has nothing to do with > > astrology (predictive). They are astronomers (as per present > > convention). Whereas astrological principles were formulated by sage > > Parashar around 200 BC. And that too after adopting the concept of > > sign from Greeks. You may read "Vishnu Puran" written by Sage > > parashar himself, where he mention that Earth is stationary and Sun > > hoovers over it at a distance of 1 lakh yojan (about 14.4 lakh km) > > and is it near then Moon……….and so on…….(Read my book for detail > > because it is not possible to write the matter of 350 pages on this > > mail).> > > > >>>>>>>> even bhaskaracharya says abt the eclipses and> > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or > > moon .<<<<<<<<<> > I am not saying that their was no eclipse, But please read any > > scripture as to why there is eclipse and how to save the sun from the > > clutched of Ketu after bathing and donation etc. Bhaskaracharya and > > other astronomers were only calculating the correctness of the > > transit and every eclipse was worked out on the basis of position of > > Rahu – Ketu. Because concept of Rahuketu was only devised on the > > basis of eclipse. So do not try to get some escape route.> > > > >>>>> circumference of each planet has been assessed by them<<<<<<<<> > Is it correct scientifically.> > > > >>>>>gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery > > planets>>>>>>>> > They are not planets. These are only terms used for deriving some > > prediction. Have you read any scripture where these were mentioned > > along with Sun, Moon etc…like planets.> > > > >>>>>>>> Can u show any> > planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy…….<<<<<> > Now astrologer are terming them as intersection point of the orbit of > > Sun and Moon (refer any astrological book) only on the basis of > > eclipse. And it is not a board of Delhi, But they are well mentioned > > in scriptures.> > > > >>>>>>> our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in > > correct parlance .<<<<<<> > Where you find it. I have asked so many questions relating to > > principle, calculation and prediction but you have not answered a > > single question. If prediction is correct then can you answer as to > > whether> > > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.> > 2 When he / she will be married.> > 3 When he / she will be father / mother> > 4 When he / she will die.> > > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive > > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and > > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is > > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof principle > > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further > > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then they may > > ask him above 4 questions.> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind > > it there are methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some > > times only rasi dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all > > signifcance of planets<<<<<<<> > > > It is your right if you don't want to talk with me but it is my duty > > to answer you otherwise your moderator will charge me that I am > > avoiding any discussion. Perhaps you are even not aware that rasi > > was not created by our sages but it was borrowed from Greek ……..> > > > >>>>>>>u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is > > more than 100 of astro systems r there .<<<<<> > I have spent more then 35 years in studying the astrology and want to > > learn some thing from you. But you are not prepared to even answer my > > questions then how I will learn.> > And if there are 100 astro systems but none of them is able to > > predict correctly. Otherwise you can give answer to my questions. > > Secondly we are humanbeings and always afraid with unknown future > > hence it is our weakness to know about future so that we may protect > > ourselves. But if any one system out 1oo systems is correct then > > what is the need of applying the mind to find the correct answer > > which we already know. Thus your statement is itself confirm that > > many systems were only devised to find the truth which was not > > available with previous systems.> > > > >>>>>we find there is 1000s of> > books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid > > people are claiming they knows everything and asking us to > > prove .<<<<<<> > If for the sake of discussion I admit that no body has gone through > > the books lying in library then why astrologer may not go to read > > them first and then come forward with some correct prediction. > > Instead of befooling innocent persons like you with half knowledge > > (of astrologers).> > > > > > >>>>>>…………… even the therey of evolution is not fool > > proof………………..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<> > > > What is science. Science is a continuous process of learning and > > devising new principles without any attachment with any old > > principle. So if any theory is not final, then it makes no difference > > because it will be finalized in years to come.> > > > It would have been better if you come forward with some solid > > answers of my question. But any how thanks for your comments.> > > > Yours truly,> > Sanat> > Sanatkumar_jain@> > > > 4-12-2007> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sunil nair" > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > > > dear sanat kumar> > > > > > > > > > > > i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of > > ur> > > books like salman rushdy or taslima .> > > > > > If u want complete understanding of jyothish u can visit me ,as > > this> > > grp space u can avoid misusing .> > > > > > > > > > > > rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know that > > sun> > > is stationary .but for calculation purpose as jyothisha is based on> > > calculation and practical purpose they use so many things which may > > be> > > not true according to modern science .So this vakra or stationary> > > motions u may not find in modern astronomy .same is case of venus > > and> > > mercury .Its all based on the inhabitant of earth and his view .But > > u> > > see the distance from earth is correctly measured and may be very > > small> > > negligible error in their calculation with modern astronomy .U can > > refer> > > atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where it > > says its> > > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force > > called> > > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the > > eclipses and> > > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or > > moon .> > > > > > > > > > > > But its all part of ganita system in jyothish which is used by > > panchanga> > > makers who predicts even all eclipses correctly may since last 2> > > millinaiums ,so dont say rishis dont hav scintific back ground and > > even> > > the movements and circumference of each planet has been assessed by > > them> > > .> > > > > > > > > > > > And also they inclide so many other planets also like rahu and ketu > > and> > > gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery > > planets> > > and it has got its own place in astrology and prashna .Can u show > > any> > > planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy .Again i wanted to > > tell> > > u their basis of planets need not be the real planets as like a > > traffic> > > lite (automatic) controls the traffic ,its only a medium they > > used .And> > > dont confuse with dailectical style with actual facts >when we r> > > arriving to delhi by train we say delhi has come ,does it mean that> > > delhi is coming to u .Also dont confuse sign board with actual > > place .if> > > u get down to delhi by flight may be u can see ,welcome to delhi --> > that> > > measn is that sign board is delhi ??> > > > > > Yes ,i agree some logic is lost but since its a pracical thing and > > in> > > our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in correct> > > parlance .> > > > > > > > > > > > But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind it there > > are> > > methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some times only > > rasi> > > dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all signifcance of > > planets .But> > > u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is more > > than 100> > > of astro systems r there .> > > > > > So first u study and come with charts for arguments than writing > > sugar> > > and licking the paper and complaing that this paper is not sweet .> > > > > > I hav 1000s of question abt any science ,if u refer back my mails u > > can> > > see it ,some of that .> > > > > > > > > > > > But no question kovoor model or edamaruku model of indian atheist> > > society as they them self proved wrong and was lieing .Kovoor said > > he> > > studied astro ,here in our full life still we find there is 1000s of> > > books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid > > people> > > are claiming they knows everything and asking us to prove .> > > > > > Can sceince made food from carbon and hydregen and oxygen as all > > food> > > is carbo hydrates ,can they produce rice and wheat seperately ,But > > we r> > > not fools to argue with them because there is some accepted facts > > >other> > > wise if u try u may get soda water only .But that doesnot make their> > > therey wrong .Did sceince able to expalin the black holes(kaalika > > sakti> > > ) which sucks matter as big as big planets and making a emptyness > > And> > > even the therey of evolution is not fool proof ,also the first life > > in> > > earth ,they make some conditions and say its based on this > > conditions> > > remaining the same as a pre requisite to work the theorey ,why so > > if all> > > is 2+2=4 .then tell me from where the first cell is generated ?? > > How the> > > same energy matter is differring on physical properties ,salt is> > > different and sugar is differnet ,and all is finaly part of total > > energy> > > in this universe ????what is ur logic .Why some people r only > > allergic> > > to some medicines ??why some kids become autistic after > > vaccinated????> > > > > > if science so plain and simple and does not hav different > > diamentions.> > > > > > But u must explain all this without asking any pre conditions and > > one> > > condition is allowed to explain all ur logic .Dont take different > > stand> > > for each answer.> > > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair .> > > > > > Om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit Ji,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > Thanks for your mails of 28 and 29th. Though I have given a very> > > > comprehensive reply of your mail dt. 26th Nov. But you have not> > > > replied pointwise. If you are not ready to give pointwise reply > > then> > > > what is the use of discussion and how will you> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> i m very eager to settle scores with u by> > > > using ur own logic.<<<<<<<<> > > >> > > > settle the score. (do not think that by evading the point and > > using> > > > the filthy language you have settled the score.) I am not bouncing> > > > the questions / querry without any substance with me. So there is > > no> > > > question of evading and academic discussion> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> I have collected some intersting informations abt Mr. > > Sanat.> > > > He has been provoking people simultaneously evading direct debate > > for> > > > last more than two years.<<<<<<<> > > >> > > > I don't know what sort of interesting info. you have collected abt> > > > myself. But I am always ready for any discussion and I always > > reply> > > > even mail be derogatory or going to settle the score. If you will> > > > intimate me the site / mail which I have not replied then I will > > be> > > > happy and will definitely reply. It is possible that either I have> > > > not come across the mail because I do not reply the mails between> > > > group members and do not visit the forum regularly, if there is > > not> > > > a continuity of discussion. Because it is not correct to break the> > > > planning against me. (As Aavesh is writing to Ms Nalini like "…> > > > jokers like Mr Sanat…….. So where is the point which I should> > > reply).> > > > However, to avoid any hardship I always quote that anyone can> > > > directly write to me on my email because it is also possible that > > I> > > > may have left the site. So your comment is quite baseless. Even I > > am> > > > replying your mails (though late because I am answering one by > > one)> > > > even after your filthy language. Because you are always in hurry,> > > > whereas the first sentence of my first blog say "ponder" means > > take> > > > your time and then write. If I am not present then you can always> > > > call me through my email. Because I read all my emails but may > > not be> > > > able to read all messages in the forum/site etc.> > > >> > > > I have replied every mail of this forum and at present not a > > single> > > > message is pending with me. How you can charge that I am evading> > > > direct discussion. But their must be some points. What sort of> > > > reply you want if there is nothing in the mail. I have replied you> > > > once, to Sh. Chandrashekhar ji, to M/s Kiran ji, to Aaveshji. But > > do> > > > you find any reply of my questions in their mails. Though Kiranji > > has> > > > tried somewhat but even she has not replied on my points. I have> > > > replied your earlier mail but you have not replied pointwise but> > > > came with some baseless defence.> > > >> > > > >>>>> if there is no good library of> > > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a > > science.<<<<<> > > > But I can read the physics from any other library. But if> > > > any book has those principles which have no support in any > > library of> > > > the world and whatever is being claimed is only based on faith> > > > towards sages and that too may also be wrong (though it took> > > > thousands of years) then how it can be termed as science. Sages > > were> > > > of the view that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon. > > All> > > > constellations are below the Mercury…and so on….. How this> > > concept> > > > may now be treated as correct and over the modern science.> > > > Same is the story with your> > > > >>>>>>>nuclear bomb can be made, do u know> > > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it > > enable u> > > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.<<<<<<<> > > > Perhaps you are not aware that one school student of USA has > > prepared> > > > the Bomb just after reading the books from the library. So if I > > want> > > > to know then I have to study and learn the procedure and have to> > > > join the department then I will be able to make a bomb. Or it > > makes> > > > no difference that instead of me someone else is preparing the > > bomb> > > > after reading and gaining the knowledge. But who is the astrologer> > > > who can reply my questions even after referring the socalled books> > > > from any university.> > > > Actuly you are not such a pilot as you stated> > > > >>>>>>>, we who are in astrology, majorly like such a pilot, we > > have> > > > got principles made by sages and> > > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately, > > not> > > > available to us. <<<<<<<<> > > > because pilot know that bomb will certainly blast. But you don't > > know> > > > as to whether your prediction and principles are right or not. You> > > > are only armed with blindfaith. So actually you are fighting with > > the> > > > wooden sword thinking that it will certainly be usefull. You or> > > > majority (I will say all) have never tried to peep in to the > > history,> > > > sociology, religion, human development, sociology and so on that's> > > > why you are not aware with the foundation stone of astrological> > > > principles. Because any principle can only be formulated on the > > basis> > > > of the then concept. If you find out the then concept (at the time> > > > of sages) then you can findout the reasons (or you may read my > > book).> > > > You are saying> > > > >>>>>>, I m very good in logic and i speak for> > > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of > > giving u> > > > a lesson.<<<<<<> > > > But so far you have not given any logic by which you say that you > > are> > > > supporting astrology except exposing your blindfaith and filty> > > > language to teach me a lesson or settling a score and so on……> > > Though> > > > Galileo was killed by the church having same mentality to teach > > the> > > > lesson but ultimately Galileo was right though you may not agree > > and> > > > may like to support the concept of sages of stationary earth and > > so> > > > on……..Even our sages have not marked the signs too, which is> > > basic> > > > requirement of predictive astrology. You claim that you speak for> > > > the truth. But it is not so. Because for finding a truth you have> > > > to know both sides then you can only judge that what is right. But> > > > presently you are not judging but you are only advocating > > astrology> > > > and that too on the basis of blindfaith without knowing the> > > > otherside story and delivering your judgement that you are right > > and> > > > with the truth. What a fun ? At one hand you say> > > > >>>>>>you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will> > > > offer my life long assistance to you.<<<<> > > > and on the other hand do not want to ponder on the fact as to how> > > > these principles were formulated (refer my book). So you are a > > lawyer> > > > who is defending his client on the basis of only blindfaith and> > > > asking CBI to enquire and knowing that facts are against your > > client> > > > then delivering your judgement that your client is right > > (astrology> > > > is of scientific nature, it's predictions come true and it can> > > > describe ur looks without watching u. ) and not prepared to answer> > > > so many queries raised by me. So how you can be with truth, you > > are> > > > only with blindfaith. Otherwise leave aside describing looks you> > > > can't even predict as to which horoscope is belongs to a man or > > to a> > > > woman (refer my questions). So I am hesitant in saying that if you> > > > are really with truth then you must be on my side. And that too > > not> > > > blindly but after reading thoroughly then you can be a judge and > > able> > > > to decide as to whether I am right or not.> > > >> > > > However, It would be better if you can offer some reply on my > > earlier> > > > points or you may fix the points. But keep patience do not be in> > > > hurry and read the blog, think, interact take your own time and > > then> > > > reply and behave like a moderator and be open for any views. > > Because> > > > you can expel me from your forum (even you can say it or stop> > > > answering) but my views are stored in the form of book, which is > > not> > > > only being liked in India but abroad too (refer my first blog). I > > am> > > > always here or you can just email me in my absence.> > > > At present there is no pending mail from your forum. I will wait > > for> > > > any comments. So don't say I am avoiding discussion.> > > > Thanks,> > > >> > > > Sanat> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@> > > > 2-12-2007> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol"> > > > litsol@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,> > > > >> > > > > How old u r ? Why dont u understand if there is no good library > > of> > > > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a science.> > > > >> > > > > Same way, like u know, nuclear bomb can be made, do u know> > > > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it > > enable> > > > u> > > > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.> > > > >> > > > > now, think of a pilot, who gets already made nuclear bombs, > > flies> > > > his> > > > > aircraft and finally hits the target, he is not concerned with> > > > > procedure of making the nuclear bombs, we who are in astrology,> > > > > majorly like such a pilot, we have got principles made by sages > > and> > > > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately, > > not> > > > > available to us.> > > > >> > > > > In my first mail, I offered my assistance to you if u r > > positive,> > > > and> > > > > if u devote urself to rediscover forgotten procedures. I didnt > > read> > > > > last para of ur mail where u have written AIDS..etc..> > > > >> > > > > In the second mail, is after understaing ur psychology , u r not> > > > for> > > > > descovering, rather, u have made ur ignorance ur asset and> > > > > propogating that, If u want to understand what astrology is and > > how> > > > > scientific it is, u should learn it, u should have an experince > > of> > > > it.> > > > >> > > > > regarding the win and defeat, I challanged u, if u have a > > malific> > > > > interest to defame astrology, I m very good in logic and i speak> > > > for> > > > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of > > giving> > > > u> > > > > a lesson. but if u r too honest to check what astrololgy, my > > help> > > > > with respect is always there for u.> > > > >> > > > > I m not a person who avoids debates.> > > > >> > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit Ji,> > > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > > Thanks for your two mails.> > > > > > Though I avoid writing in groups because it is very difficult > > to> > > > > > handle the mails and sometimes arguments may heart feelings,> > > > which> > > > > is> > > > > > not my intention.> > > > > >> > > > > > In first mail you want to assist me and stated "I will offer > > my> > > > > life> > > > > > long assistance to you." but in your second mail just after > > one> > > > > hour> > > > > > you> > > > > > say "I take up this challange, I m sure of my win, as u have > > to> > > > > > defeat that's why god send u to this group, where u will have > > to> > > > > face> > > > > > me. Dont run away from the ground".> > > > > >> > > > > > It appears you are very much hearted with my blog. So let me> > > > clear> > > > > > first that I am neither interested in defeating you nor in> > > > > defending> > > > > > myself on wrong footings. More over I do not want to disturb> > > > your> > > > > > day to day discussion, if every body is harping on the same> > > > tune.> > > > > > Hence I asked readers to write me directly on my email.> > > > > >> > > > > > Like others, you have not answered the queries but at one side> > > > you> > > > > > show your inability and stated that> > > > > >> > > > > > >>>Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our> > > > > > literature is not available containing the procedures,third> > > > problem> > > > > > is we are a irresponsible selfish community whose life > > revolves> > > > > > around survival> > > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure oriented, > > we> > > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried to> > > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to > > share> > > > our> > > > > > knowledge easily.<<<<<> > > > > >> > > > > > whereas on the other hand you say that> > > > > >> > > > > > >>>>still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions> > > > come> > > > > > true and it can describe ur looks without watching u. <<<<> > > > > >> > > > > > So if astrology is scientific then how you can say > > that "problem> > > > is> > > > > > blind guruism" and if "literature is not available containing > > the> > > > > > procedures" then how you can say that it is scienfic. But for> > > > your> > > > > > kind information non-availability of literature is only an > > escape> > > > > > route. Because in primitive age either there were stone > > carvings> > > > > > which is difficult to destroy and there were system of hearsay> > > > > > (shruitigyan) by which sages pass on the knowledge to next> > > > > > generation. Thus this knowledge is always safe in the brain of> > > > > > students (shishya). Knowledge of sages were well spreaded in> > > > south> > > > > > India, Mesopotamia, Greece etc. So don't take any escape > > route.> > > > > >> > > > > > Your statement that "we are a irresponsible selfish community> > > > whose> > > > > > life revolves around survival " is not only applicable to> > > > Indians> > > > > > but it is human nature who always want to survive and oppose> > > > any> > > > > > other view. Otherwise Galileo would not have been imprisoned> > > > > for> > > > > > his views of solar system which was against the Bible (it is> > > > also> > > > > > against every religion), Or you would not have bombed me if my> > > > > views> > > > > > are not against your views. Hence correct interpretation may > > be> > > > > > that most of us are not logical and only governed by age-old> > > > > > traditions without applying our minds and prepare to oppose > > for> > > > any> > > > > > view which is against our mindset.> > > > > >> > > > > > Your statement "we were never procedure oriented, we always> > > > > concerned> > > > > > with end results" is totally right in my opinion because this > > is> > > > > our> > > > > > tradition to believe sages, Brahmins, astrologers etc. who are> > > > > > convincing us with some result or with some false hopes. They> > > > > created> > > > > > strong caste system and enabled a part of society for reading > > and> > > > > > questioning some thing. Thus unknowingly you are also > > following> > > > the> > > > > > same tradition and instead of being a procedure oriented to > > know> > > > > as> > > > > > to whether astrology is scientific or not you are just> > > > > > saying "astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions > > come> > > > > > true."> > > > > >> > > > > > How you can say "we dont want to share our knowledge easily.".> > > > > > Teacher is always prepared to teach, parents always prepared > > to> > > > > teach> > > > > > even our friends (if you want you can include me) are > > prepared to> > > > > > teach, and books who are our best friends are always prepared > > to> > > > > > teach us. But cunning business oriented astrologers are not> > > > > prepared> > > > > > to disclose his secrets, as to how he is befooling some> > > > individuals> > > > > > with weak mentality.> > > > > >> > > > > > If their may be a slightest truth in predictive astrology > > then I> > > > > > would be the first man who may be happy, Because I am actually> > > > > > associated with this since long and I have even designed a> > > > > horoscope> > > > > > which comprises all astrological principles in single > > horoscope> > > > > > (which is also given in my Book).> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > So far your statement "it's predictions come true> > > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u." is> > > > > > concerned, and you are not prepared to answer the questions> > > > raised> > > > > > in my blog, because if you will answer these questions then > > you> > > > can> > > > > > realize that astrology is science or not; then I will like to > > say> > > > > > that can you or any reader can decide about> > > > > >> > > > > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.> > > > > > 2 When he / she will be married.> > > > > > 3 When he / she will be father / mother> > > > > > 4 When he / she will die.> > > > > >> > > > > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other> > > > > predictive> > > > > > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways > > and> > > > > > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is> > > > > > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof> > > > principle> > > > > > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further> > > > > > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then > > they> > > > may> > > > > > ask him above 4 questions and/or 10 questions raised in my > > blog,> > > > or> > > > > > about the position of Rahu / Ketu then they will realize the> > > > truth.> > > > > >> > > > > > So far your statemet "you should do some work to find out > > these> > > > > > procedures, I will offer my life long assistance to you." is> > > > > > concerned, I will like to say that I am associated with > > astrology> > > > > > since +35 years and after too much digging I find the > > procedures> > > > as> > > > > > to how all astrological principles were formulated along with> > > > many> > > > > > scientific concept, which have been included in my original> > > > > > books "Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat" (Hindi) and "Astrology > > a> > > > > > science or myth" (English). Hence you need not to give life > > long> > > > > > assistance but it is more then enough if you go through the > > book.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes I will like to add one more point that so far many> > > > astrologers> > > > > > and readers have gone through the book but non of them has > > ever> > > > > > intimated that he is not convinced with the factual position, > > but> > > > > > contrary to this every one praised the book, which is first > > book> > > > > with> > > > > > such scientific analysis.> > > > > >> > > > > > Other reader may directly write on my email> > > > > > sanatkumar_jain@, because I do not want to disturb your> > > > > > discussion, because when some one wants to be misguided then > > why> > > > I> > > > > > should worry. But it is my social duty to inform some truth,> > > > > Because> > > > > > they are not aware with the otherside story, and it is up to > > them> > > > > to> > > > > > decide, but definitely I am not interested in the business of> > > > > > defeating or defending. I am only interested in the Truth.> > > > > >> > > > > > What to say for "Though i dont know much astrology, I m ready > > to> > > > > > enter into a debate". Though I don't think that you don't know> > > > > > astrology. But it is true that many innocent persons who > > really> > > > > don't> > > > > > know about the astrology; prepared to discuss as to how some> > > > > > predictions turned to be true and so on without any counter> > > > > arguments> > > > > > ………….> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Waiting for your comments. Thanks once again,> > > > > >> > > > > > Yours,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Sanat> > > > > > Sanatkumar_jain@> > > > > >> > > > > > (If you will allow then I will answer one by one to other > > mails> > > > > also)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol"> > > > > > <litsol@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > U deserve our regards, Thanx a lot for posting this mail to > > the> > > > > > > group. however, i w'd like to let u know, u r not alone who> > > > > thinks> > > > > > > like this and carries same questions in his mind.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our> > > > > > literature> > > > > > > is not available containing the procedures,third problem is > > we> > > > > are> > > > > > a> > > > > > > irresponsible selfish community whose life revolves around> > > > > survival> > > > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure > > oriented, we> > > > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried > > to> > > > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to > > share> > > > > our> > > > > > > knowledge easily.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions > > come> > > > > > true> > > > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will> > > > > offer> > > > > > my> > > > > > > life long assistance to you.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to> > > > some> > > > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not > > studied> > > > in> > > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed > > like> > > > > > this.> > > > > > > So> > > > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as > > to> > > > > > whether> > > > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of > > science> > > > > due> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the > > sentiments of> > > > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only> > > > want> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let > > us> > > > > > > examine> > > > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because > > you> > > > > > have> > > > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are> > > > > standing> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has > > been> > > > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology > > is> > > > a> > > > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can> > > > > understand> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business > > but> > > > > if> > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or> > > > call> > > > > > an> > > > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in> > > > early> > > > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being > > has> > > > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This> > > > > > > religious> > > > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet > > (Sun,> > > > > > Moon,> > > > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days> > > > only> > > > > > > sages> > > > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus > > after> > > > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill > > to> > > > > > > predict> > > > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called> > > > > > grabbing> > > > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and > > Ketu.> > > > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and > > its> > > > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer> > > > donations> > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, > > which is> > > > > > still> > > > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of> > > > > > > everybody> > > > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this> > > > > situation,> > > > > > it> > > > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict > > the> > > > > fate> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict > > the> > > > > > fate> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate> > > > various> > > > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then > > knowledge of> > > > > > sages> > > > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These> > > > > > > principles> > > > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never> > > > > > > percolated> > > > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier > > to> > > > > learn> > > > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these > > principles> > > > > > were> > > > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as> > > > Western> > > > > > > system.> > > > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One> > > > group> > > > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology> > > > due> > > > > to> > > > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always > > try> > > > to> > > > > > fit> > > > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological > > principle> > > > > > within> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and > > faith> > > > > > etc.,> > > > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because> > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too> > > > diabolical> > > > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in > > fluke)> > > > > may> > > > > > > come> > > > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and > > start> > > > > > self> > > > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle > > on> > > > > other> > > > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only> > > > > > mislead,> > > > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can> > > > find> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group> > > > (say> > > > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against> > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > But> > > > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was> > > > the> > > > > > > level> > > > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed> > > > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what > > procedure> > > > was> > > > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to > > Lordship,> > > > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, > > Vinshottary> > > > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles > > then> > > > > > > following> > > > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in> > > > > > subpara).> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among> > > > seven> > > > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the> > > > > stationary> > > > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is > > enmity> > > > and> > > > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are > > enemy> > > > of> > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > other) ?> > > > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and > > demons> > > > > over> > > > > > > > nector after sea-churning………..> > > > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect > > (full,> > > > > > > quarter> > > > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect > > on> > > > > > seventh> > > > > > > > house) ?> > > > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are> > > > exalted> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. > > of> > > > > Aries> > > > > > > > sign) ?> > > > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when > > duration> > > > of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > day is more in comparison to night……> > > > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful > > and> > > > > hub> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha > > whereas> > > > > Venus> > > > > > > (a> > > > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > > > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the > > effect> > > > of> > > > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > > > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various > > constellations> > > > > > > between> > > > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a> > > > week> > > > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > > > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the> > > > > > structure> > > > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde> > > > motion> > > > > of> > > > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > > > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are> > > > 180> > > > > > deg.> > > > > > > > apart?> > > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > > > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of > > eclipse ?> > > > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation> > > month……….> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final > > question as> > > > > to> > > > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one> > > > gave> > > > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that > > entire> > > > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong > > concept of> > > > > > > > Universe.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the > > then> > > > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed > > by> > > > > sage> > > > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is > > in> > > > the> > > > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also > > believed in> > > > > all> > > > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read> > > > any> > > > > > old> > > > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas > > Moon> > > > is> > > > > > > beyond> > > > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury > > and> > > > > Moon.> > > > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological > > principles> > > > > are> > > > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self > > studying> > > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude> > > > correct> > > > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same> > > > combination> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh > > logically> > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive> > > > > > concept> > > > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling > > in> > > > > view> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive> > > > > concept> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > > > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on> > > > > > > astrology "Jyotish -> > > > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book> > > > > contains> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles > > on> > > > the> > > > > > > basis> > > > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our> > > > sages> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published > > in> > > > > > English> > > > > > > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). > > You> > > > > can> > > > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change > > the> > > > > face> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to > > know> > > > > > more> > > > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you> > > > may> > > > > > send> > > > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.> > > > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?> > > > > > produktID=1759836> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?> > AUB=sanat%> > > > > > 20kumar%> > > > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?> > > > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, > > Neptune> > > > > nor> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to> > > > > presence> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed > > the> > > > > > > concept> > > > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was> > > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came> > > > within> > > > > > 14> > > > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).> > > > But> > > > > > > nobody> > > > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse> > > > when> > > > > > > Sun,> > > > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree> > > > > respectively> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, > > Moon> > > > and> > > > > > > Ketu> > > > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on > > 03-> > > > 03-> > > > > > 1988> > > > > > > (> > > > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar> > > > > > eclipses> > > > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was > > more> > > > > then> > > > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at> > > > 79.04> > > > > > > deg.> > > > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon > > were> > > > at> > > > > > > 76.49> > > > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu > > was> > > > > > 15.14> > > > > > > > deg. away).> > > > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you > > will> > > > > > also> > > > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse > > occurred> > > > at> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it> > > > was> > > > > > not> > > > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the > > basis of> > > > > > > myth).> > > > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, > > when> > > > > > Moon> > > > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be > > there.> > > > > But> > > > > > > As> > > > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-> > > > 1985> > > > > > and> > > > > > > 3-> > > > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were > > full> > > > > > solar> > > > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 > > degree> > > > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full > > solar> > > > > > > eclipses> > > > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and> > > > 166> > > > > > > degree> > > > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may> > > > > possible.> > > > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in> > > > almanac.> > > > > > > Thus> > > > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees> > > > > respectively.> > > > > > > All> > > > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this> > > > > > fundamental> > > > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you> > > > want> > > > > > then> > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of> > > > detecting> > > > > > > them.> > > > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a > > science> > > > > but> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of > > astronomy> > > > +> > > > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,> > > > psychology> > > > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive > > age)> > > > > > played> > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due > > to> > > > > > > immense> > > > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology> > > > > > appears> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will > > also> > > > > > agree> > > > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original> > > > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-> > decided> > > > as> > > > > > was> > > > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may> > > > try> > > > > to> > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according > > to> > > > > pre-> > > > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of > > modifying> > > > > that> > > > > > > pre-> > > > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our > > fate,> > > > > even> > > > > > > then> > > > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating > > a> > > > > > > cascading> > > > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of> > > > every> > > > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or > > say> > > > > pre-> > > > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when> > > > > every> > > > > > > Tom,> > > > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,> > > > good> > > > > > deed> > > > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under> > > > > change.> > > > > > > You> > > > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical> > > > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and > > can> > > > > > never> > > > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart > > cannot> > > > be> > > > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction > > is> > > > > also> > > > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever> > > > > > > prewritten)> > > > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.> > > > because> > > > > in> > > > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be> > > > > altered> > > > > > > but> > > > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked > > prediction> > > > can> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed > > transit> > > > of> > > > > > > > planets?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest> > > > assured> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. > > Only> > > > > > > astronomy> > > > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were > > used> > > > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it > > appears> > > > > > > correct.> > > > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a > > myth.> > > > > > Still> > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact > > The> > > > > > James> > > > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 > > prize> > > > to> > > > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-> > mail> > > > and> > > > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern> > > > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being > > used> > > > > to> > > > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested> > > > > business> > > > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight > > this> > > > > sort> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in > > this> > > > > > regard> > > > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology> > > > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to > > formulate> > > > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct> > > > information> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Universe, solar system.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further> > > > > > interaction> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know> > > > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before> > > > falling> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS> > > > > > (Astrology> > > > > > > Is> > > > > > > > Damaging Society).> > > > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain> > > > > > > > Gwalior> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of> > > > creating> > > > > > > > problems to moderator> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

hare ramakrishna,

dear sanat ji ,

i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading students ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like ppl selling mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the scinces and 1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not human possible .

u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar jain is not original sant kumara

we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got astrology from english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or rishis or commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century bhaskara ,this a continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be destroyes rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in that century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of another 5000 years to reach to that extent .

same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or bhaskara was a flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i will not say 10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he himself says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so do u think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some solid rock without change .

astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or climate in planets ??

what we use in predictive astrology .

Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent me ur book because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt want to part it with u .

same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and some fellow astrologers challenge in out own way .

so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl of equal status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u can individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me is its not my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

regrds sunil nair

i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic of scientifc enquiry .

he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is sweet unless he is not ready to take it .

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Dear Nair,> Thanks for your mail.> I think there is no harm in knowing many things.> > >>>>>i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of ur > books like salman rushdy or taslima<<<<<> > and secondly my book is not a fiction like salman etc…. Hence I am > not bothered to promote the book. Because it is the work of the > publisher because ultimately he earns from the sale. Secondly when > book is already being sold in USA, UK, Europe then what I have to do > by interacting with some small group.> > >>>>>>>rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know > that sun is stationary .<<<<<<> Above statement followed with many lines show that you are only > saying what you have heard from astrologers, who are expert in > befooling others, but you have not taken pains to read any > scripture. That's why you are asking me to refer Aryabhatia, > Bhaskaracharya etc.> > First you even don't know that astrological principles were not > formulated by aryabhatt or bhaskaracharya. I think you even don't > know when they were. So for your kind information Aryabhatt (6th > Century) and bhaskaracharya (12th century) has nothing to do with > astrology (predictive). They are astronomers (as per present > convention). Whereas astrological principles were formulated by sage > Parashar around 200 BC. And that too after adopting the concept of > sign from Greeks. You may read "Vishnu Puran" written by Sage > parashar himself, where he mention that Earth is stationary and Sun > hoovers over it at a distance of 1 lakh yojan (about 14.4 lakh km) > and is it near then Moon……….and so on…….(Read my book for detail > because it is not possible to write the matter of 350 pages on this > mail).> > >>>>>>>> even bhaskaracharya says abt the eclipses and> its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or > moon .<<<<<<<<<> I am not saying that their was no eclipse, But please read any > scripture as to why there is eclipse and how to save the sun from the > clutched of Ketu after bathing and donation etc. Bhaskaracharya and > other astronomers were only calculating the correctness of the > transit and every eclipse was worked out on the basis of position of > Rahu – Ketu. Because concept of Rahuketu was only devised on the > basis of eclipse. So do not try to get some escape route.> > >>>>> circumference of each planet has been assessed by them<<<<<<<<> Is it correct scientifically.> > >>>>>gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery > planets>>>>>>>> They are not planets. These are only terms used for deriving some > prediction. Have you read any scripture where these were mentioned > along with Sun, Moon etc…like planets.> > >>>>>>>> Can u show any> planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy…….<<<<<> Now astrologer are terming them as intersection point of the orbit of > Sun and Moon (refer any astrological book) only on the basis of > eclipse. And it is not a board of Delhi, But they are well mentioned > in scriptures.> > >>>>>>> our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in > correct parlance .<<<<<<> Where you find it. I have asked so many questions relating to > principle, calculation and prediction but you have not answered a > single question. If prediction is correct then can you answer as to > whether> > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.> 2 When he / she will be married.> 3 When he / she will be father / mother> 4 When he / she will die.> > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof principle > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then they may > ask him above 4 questions.> > >>>>>>>>>>> But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind > it there are methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some > times only rasi dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all > signifcance of planets<<<<<<<> > It is your right if you don't want to talk with me but it is my duty > to answer you otherwise your moderator will charge me that I am > avoiding any discussion. Perhaps you are even not aware that rasi > was not created by our sages but it was borrowed from Greek ……..> > >>>>>>>u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is > more than 100 of astro systems r there .<<<<<> I have spent more then 35 years in studying the astrology and want to > learn some thing from you. But you are not prepared to even answer my > questions then how I will learn.> And if there are 100 astro systems but none of them is able to > predict correctly. Otherwise you can give answer to my questions. > Secondly we are humanbeings and always afraid with unknown future > hence it is our weakness to know about future so that we may protect > ourselves. But if any one system out 1oo systems is correct then > what is the need of applying the mind to find the correct answer > which we already know. Thus your statement is itself confirm that > many systems were only devised to find the truth which was not > available with previous systems.> > >>>>>we find there is 1000s of> books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid > people are claiming they knows everything and asking us to > prove .<<<<<<> If for the sake of discussion I admit that no body has gone through > the books lying in library then why astrologer may not go to read > them first and then come forward with some correct prediction. > Instead of befooling innocent persons like you with half knowledge > (of astrologers).> > > >>>>>>…………… even the therey of evolution is not fool > proof………………..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<> > What is science. Science is a continuous process of learning and > devising new principles without any attachment with any old > principle. So if any theory is not final, then it makes no difference > because it will be finalized in years to come.> > It would have been better if you come forward with some solid > answers of my question. But any how thanks for your comments.> > Yours truly,> Sanat> Sanatkumar_jain > 4-12-2007> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sunil nair" > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > dear sanat kumar> > > > > > > > i think u know many things and u just wanted to push some of > ur> > books like salman rushdy or taslima .> > > > If u want complete understanding of jyothish u can visit me ,as > this> > grp space u can avoid misusing .> > > > > > > > rishis were aware of the movement of all planets and they know that > sun> > is stationary .but for calculation purpose as jyothisha is based on> > calculation and practical purpose they use so many things which may > be> > not true according to modern science .So this vakra or stationary> > motions u may not find in modern astronomy .same is case of venus > and> > mercury .Its all based on the inhabitant of earth and his view .But > u> > see the distance from earth is correctly measured and may be very > small> > negligible error in their calculation with modern astronomy .U can > refer> > atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where it > says its> > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force > called> > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the > eclipses and> > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or > moon .> > > > > > > > But its all part of ganita system in jyothish which is used by > panchanga> > makers who predicts even all eclipses correctly may since last 2> > millinaiums ,so dont say rishis dont hav scintific back ground and > even> > the movements and circumference of each planet has been assessed by > them> > .> > > > > > > > And also they inclide so many other planets also like rahu and ketu > and> > gulik and mandi and so many other apraskasita grahas or tertiery > planets> > and it has got its own place in astrology and prashna .Can u show > any> > planet called rahu and ketu in modern astronomy .Again i wanted to > tell> > u their basis of planets need not be the real planets as like a > traffic> > lite (automatic) controls the traffic ,its only a medium they > used .And> > dont confuse with dailectical style with actual facts >when we r> > arriving to delhi by train we say delhi has come ,does it mean that> > delhi is coming to u .Also dont confuse sign board with actual > place .if> > u get down to delhi by flight may be u can see ,welcome to delhi --> that> > measn is that sign board is delhi ??> > > > Yes ,i agree some logic is lost but since its a pracical thing and > in> > our day to day practise we find what ever they used is in correct> > parlance .> > > > > > > > But i cannot talk to u if u r not willing to learn .Mind it there > are> > methods in astrology were we dont use planets and some times only > rasi> > dasas r mentioned and their it loses the all signifcance of > planets .But> > u should hav the humbleness to study it .In india there is more > than 100> > of astro systems r there .> > > > So first u study and come with charts for arguments than writing > sugar> > and licking the paper and complaing that this paper is not sweet .> > > > I hav 1000s of question abt any science ,if u refer back my mails u > can> > see it ,some of that .> > > > > > > > But no question kovoor model or edamaruku model of indian atheist> > society as they them self proved wrong and was lieing .Kovoor said > he> > studied astro ,here in our full life still we find there is 1000s of> > books r still lying in many librabrys untouched and this stupid > people> > are claiming they knows everything and asking us to prove .> > > > Can sceince made food from carbon and hydregen and oxygen as all > food> > is carbo hydrates ,can they produce rice and wheat seperately ,But > we r> > not fools to argue with them because there is some accepted facts > >other> > wise if u try u may get soda water only .But that doesnot make their> > therey wrong .Did sceince able to expalin the black holes(kaalika > sakti> > ) which sucks matter as big as big planets and making a emptyness > And> > even the therey of evolution is not fool proof ,also the first life > in> > earth ,they make some conditions and say its based on this > conditions> > remaining the same as a pre requisite to work the theorey ,why so > if all> > is 2+2=4 .then tell me from where the first cell is generated ?? > How the> > same energy matter is differring on physical properties ,salt is> > different and sugar is differnet ,and all is finaly part of total > energy> > in this universe ????what is ur logic .Why some people r only > allergic> > to some medicines ??why some kids become autistic after > vaccinated????> > > > if science so plain and simple and does not hav different > diamentions.> > > > But u must explain all this without asking any pre conditions and > one> > condition is allowed to explain all ur logic .Dont take different > stand> > for each answer.> > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair .> > > > Om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Lalit Ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > Thanks for your mails of 28 and 29th. Though I have given a very> > > comprehensive reply of your mail dt. 26th Nov. But you have not> > > replied pointwise. If you are not ready to give pointwise reply > then> > > what is the use of discussion and how will you> > >> > > >>>>>>> i m very eager to settle scores with u by> > > using ur own logic.<<<<<<<<> > >> > > settle the score. (do not think that by evading the point and > using> > > the filthy language you have settled the score.) I am not bouncing> > > the questions / querry without any substance with me. So there is > no> > > question of evading and academic discussion> > >> > > >>>>>>> I have collected some intersting informations abt Mr. > Sanat.> > > He has been provoking people simultaneously evading direct debate > for> > > last more than two years.<<<<<<<> > >> > > I don't know what sort of interesting info. you have collected abt> > > myself. But I am always ready for any discussion and I always > reply> > > even mail be derogatory or going to settle the score. If you will> > > intimate me the site / mail which I have not replied then I will > be> > > happy and will definitely reply. It is possible that either I have> > > not come across the mail because I do not reply the mails between> > > group members and do not visit the forum regularly, if there is > not> > > a continuity of discussion. Because it is not correct to break the> > > planning against me. (As Aavesh is writing to Ms Nalini like "…> > > jokers like Mr Sanat…….. So where is the point which I should> > reply).> > > However, to avoid any hardship I always quote that anyone can> > > directly write to me on my email because it is also possible that > I> > > may have left the site. So your comment is quite baseless. Even I > am> > > replying your mails (though late because I am answering one by > one)> > > even after your filthy language. Because you are always in hurry,> > > whereas the first sentence of my first blog say "ponder" means > take> > > your time and then write. If I am not present then you can always> > > call me through my email. Because I read all my emails but may > not be> > > able to read all messages in the forum/site etc.> > >> > > I have replied every mail of this forum and at present not a > single> > > message is pending with me. How you can charge that I am evading> > > direct discussion. But their must be some points. What sort of> > > reply you want if there is nothing in the mail. I have replied you> > > once, to Sh. Chandrashekhar ji, to M/s Kiran ji, to Aaveshji. But > do> > > you find any reply of my questions in their mails. Though Kiranji > has> > > tried somewhat but even she has not replied on my points. I have> > > replied your earlier mail but you have not replied pointwise but> > > came with some baseless defence.> > >> > > >>>>> if there is no good library of> > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a > science.<<<<<> > > But I can read the physics from any other library. But if> > > any book has those principles which have no support in any > library of> > > the world and whatever is being claimed is only based on faith> > > towards sages and that too may also be wrong (though it took> > > thousands of years) then how it can be termed as science. Sages > were> > > of the view that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon. > All> > > constellations are below the Mercury…and so on….. How this> > concept> > > may now be treated as correct and over the modern science.> > > Same is the story with your> > > >>>>>>>nuclear bomb can be made, do u know> > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it > enable u> > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.<<<<<<<> > > Perhaps you are not aware that one school student of USA has > prepared> > > the Bomb just after reading the books from the library. So if I > want> > > to know then I have to study and learn the procedure and have to> > > join the department then I will be able to make a bomb. Or it > makes> > > no difference that instead of me someone else is preparing the > bomb> > > after reading and gaining the knowledge. But who is the astrologer> > > who can reply my questions even after referring the socalled books> > > from any university.> > > Actuly you are not such a pilot as you stated> > > >>>>>>>, we who are in astrology, majorly like such a pilot, we > have> > > got principles made by sages and> > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately, > not> > > available to us. <<<<<<<<> > > because pilot know that bomb will certainly blast. But you don't > know> > > as to whether your prediction and principles are right or not. You> > > are only armed with blindfaith. So actually you are fighting with > the> > > wooden sword thinking that it will certainly be usefull. You or> > > majority (I will say all) have never tried to peep in to the > history,> > > sociology, religion, human development, sociology and so on that's> > > why you are not aware with the foundation stone of astrological> > > principles. Because any principle can only be formulated on the > basis> > > of the then concept. If you find out the then concept (at the time> > > of sages) then you can findout the reasons (or you may read my > book).> > > You are saying> > > >>>>>>, I m very good in logic and i speak for> > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of > giving u> > > a lesson.<<<<<<> > > But so far you have not given any logic by which you say that you > are> > > supporting astrology except exposing your blindfaith and filty> > > language to teach me a lesson or settling a score and so on……> > Though> > > Galileo was killed by the church having same mentality to teach > the> > > lesson but ultimately Galileo was right though you may not agree > and> > > may like to support the concept of sages of stationary earth and > so> > > on……..Even our sages have not marked the signs too, which is> > basic> > > requirement of predictive astrology. You claim that you speak for> > > the truth. But it is not so. Because for finding a truth you have> > > to know both sides then you can only judge that what is right. But> > > presently you are not judging but you are only advocating > astrology> > > and that too on the basis of blindfaith without knowing the> > > otherside story and delivering your judgement that you are right > and> > > with the truth. What a fun ? At one hand you say> > > >>>>>>you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will> > > offer my life long assistance to you.<<<<> > > and on the other hand do not want to ponder on the fact as to how> > > these principles were formulated (refer my book). So you are a > lawyer> > > who is defending his client on the basis of only blindfaith and> > > asking CBI to enquire and knowing that facts are against your > client> > > then delivering your judgement that your client is right > (astrology> > > is of scientific nature, it's predictions come true and it can> > > describe ur looks without watching u. ) and not prepared to answer> > > so many queries raised by me. So how you can be with truth, you > are> > > only with blindfaith. Otherwise leave aside describing looks you> > > can't even predict as to which horoscope is belongs to a man or > to a> > > woman (refer my questions). So I am hesitant in saying that if you> > > are really with truth then you must be on my side. And that too > not> > > blindly but after reading thoroughly then you can be a judge and > able> > > to decide as to whether I am right or not.> > >> > > However, It would be better if you can offer some reply on my > earlier> > > points or you may fix the points. But keep patience do not be in> > > hurry and read the blog, think, interact take your own time and > then> > > reply and behave like a moderator and be open for any views. > Because> > > you can expel me from your forum (even you can say it or stop> > > answering) but my views are stored in the form of book, which is > not> > > only being liked in India but abroad too (refer my first blog). I > am> > > always here or you can just email me in my absence.> > > At present there is no pending mail from your forum. I will wait > for> > > any comments. So don't say I am avoiding discussion.> > > Thanks,> > >> > > Sanat> > > Sanatkumar_jain@> > > 2-12-2007> > >> > >> > >> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol"> > > litsol@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,> > > >> > > > How old u r ? Why dont u understand if there is no good library > of> > > > physics in a university, doesnt mean physics is not a science.> > > >> > > > Same way, like u know, nuclear bomb can be made, do u know> > > > procedures? can u make one nuclear bomb ... u cant, does it > enable> > > u> > > > to say nuclear bombs are not real, not scientific product.> > > >> > > > now, think of a pilot, who gets already made nuclear bombs, > flies> > > his> > > > aircraft and finally hits the target, he is not concerned with> > > > procedure of making the nuclear bombs, we who are in astrology,> > > > majorly like such a pilot, we have got principles made by sages > and> > > > now using them, how sages made these principles, unfortunately, > not> > > > available to us.> > > >> > > > In my first mail, I offered my assistance to you if u r > positive,> > > and> > > > if u devote urself to rediscover forgotten procedures. I didnt > read> > > > last para of ur mail where u have written AIDS..etc..> > > >> > > > In the second mail, is after understaing ur psychology , u r not> > > for> > > > descovering, rather, u have made ur ignorance ur asset and> > > > propogating that, If u want to understand what astrology is and > how> > > > scientific it is, u should learn it, u should have an experince > of> > > it.> > > >> > > > regarding the win and defeat, I challanged u, if u have a > malific> > > > interest to defame astrology, I m very good in logic and i speak> > > for> > > > the truth only, honest in my vision therefore,i m capable of > giving> > > u> > > > a lesson. but if u r too honest to check what astrololgy, my > help> > > > with respect is always there for u.> > > >> > > > I m not a person who avoids debates.> > > >> > > > regards,> > > > Lalit.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lalit Ji,> > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > Thanks for your two mails.> > > > > Though I avoid writing in groups because it is very difficult > to> > > > > handle the mails and sometimes arguments may heart feelings,> > > which> > > > is> > > > > not my intention.> > > > >> > > > > In first mail you want to assist me and stated "I will offer > my> > > > life> > > > > long assistance to you." but in your second mail just after > one> > > > hour> > > > > you> > > > > say "I take up this challange, I m sure of my win, as u have > to> > > > > defeat that's why god send u to this group, where u will have > to> > > > face> > > > > me. Dont run away from the ground".> > > > >> > > > > It appears you are very much hearted with my blog. So let me> > > clear> > > > > first that I am neither interested in defeating you nor in> > > > defending> > > > > myself on wrong footings. More over I do not want to disturb> > > your> > > > > day to day discussion, if every body is harping on the same> > > tune.> > > > > Hence I asked readers to write me directly on my email.> > > > >> > > > > Like others, you have not answered the queries but at one side> > > you> > > > > show your inability and stated that> > > > >> > > > > >>>Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our> > > > > literature is not available containing the procedures,third> > > problem> > > > > is we are a irresponsible selfish community whose life > revolves> > > > > around survival> > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure oriented, > we> > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried to> > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to > share> > > our> > > > > knowledge easily.<<<<<> > > > >> > > > > whereas on the other hand you say that> > > > >> > > > > >>>>still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions> > > come> > > > > true and it can describe ur looks without watching u. <<<<> > > > >> > > > > So if astrology is scientific then how you can say > that "problem> > > is> > > > > blind guruism" and if "literature is not available containing > the> > > > > procedures" then how you can say that it is scienfic. But for> > > your> > > > > kind information non-availability of literature is only an > escape> > > > > route. Because in primitive age either there were stone > carvings> > > > > which is difficult to destroy and there were system of hearsay> > > > > (shruitigyan) by which sages pass on the knowledge to next> > > > > generation. Thus this knowledge is always safe in the brain of> > > > > students (shishya). Knowledge of sages were well spreaded in> > > south> > > > > India, Mesopotamia, Greece etc. So don't take any escape > route.> > > > >> > > > > Your statement that "we are a irresponsible selfish community> > > whose> > > > > life revolves around survival " is not only applicable to> > > Indians> > > > > but it is human nature who always want to survive and oppose> > > any> > > > > other view. Otherwise Galileo would not have been imprisoned> > > > for> > > > > his views of solar system which was against the Bible (it is> > > also> > > > > against every religion), Or you would not have bombed me if my> > > > views> > > > > are not against your views. Hence correct interpretation may > be> > > > > that most of us are not logical and only governed by age-old> > > > > traditions without applying our minds and prepare to oppose > for> > > any> > > > > view which is against our mindset.> > > > >> > > > > Your statement "we were never procedure oriented, we always> > > > concerned> > > > > with end results" is totally right in my opinion because this > is> > > > our> > > > > tradition to believe sages, Brahmins, astrologers etc. who are> > > > > convincing us with some result or with some false hopes. They> > > > created> > > > > strong caste system and enabled a part of society for reading > and> > > > > questioning some thing. Thus unknowingly you are also > following> > > the> > > > > same tradition and instead of being a procedure oriented to > know> > > > as> > > > > to whether astrology is scientific or not you are just> > > > > saying "astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions > come> > > > > true."> > > > >> > > > > How you can say "we dont want to share our knowledge easily.".> > > > > Teacher is always prepared to teach, parents always prepared > to> > > > teach> > > > > even our friends (if you want you can include me) are > prepared to> > > > > teach, and books who are our best friends are always prepared > to> > > > > teach us. But cunning business oriented astrologers are not> > > > prepared> > > > > to disclose his secrets, as to how he is befooling some> > > individuals> > > > > with weak mentality.> > > > >> > > > > If their may be a slightest truth in predictive astrology > then I> > > > > would be the first man who may be happy, Because I am actually> > > > > associated with this since long and I have even designed a> > > > horoscope> > > > > which comprises all astrological principles in single > horoscope> > > > > (which is also given in my Book).> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > So far your statement "it's predictions come true> > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u." is> > > > > concerned, and you are not prepared to answer the questions> > > raised> > > > > in my blog, because if you will answer these questions then > you> > > can> > > > > realize that astrology is science or not; then I will like to > say> > > > > that can you or any reader can decide about> > > > >> > > > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.> > > > > 2 When he / she will be married.> > > > > 3 When he / she will be father / mother> > > > > 4 When he / she will die.> > > > >> > > > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other> > > > predictive> > > > > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways > and> > > > > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is> > > > > governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof> > > principle> > > > > for any prediction then you can also intimate for further> > > > > interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then > they> > > may> > > > > ask him above 4 questions and/or 10 questions raised in my > blog,> > > or> > > > > about the position of Rahu / Ketu then they will realize the> > > truth.> > > > >> > > > > So far your statemet "you should do some work to find out > these> > > > > procedures, I will offer my life long assistance to you." is> > > > > concerned, I will like to say that I am associated with > astrology> > > > > since +35 years and after too much digging I find the > procedures> > > as> > > > > to how all astrological principles were formulated along with> > > many> > > > > scientific concept, which have been included in my original> > > > > books "Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat" (Hindi) and "Astrology > a> > > > > science or myth" (English). Hence you need not to give life > long> > > > > assistance but it is more then enough if you go through the > book.> > > > >> > > > > Yes I will like to add one more point that so far many> > > astrologers> > > > > and readers have gone through the book but non of them has > ever> > > > > intimated that he is not convinced with the factual position, > but> > > > > contrary to this every one praised the book, which is first > book> > > > with> > > > > such scientific analysis.> > > > >> > > > > Other reader may directly write on my email> > > > > sanatkumar_jain@, because I do not want to disturb your> > > > > discussion, because when some one wants to be misguided then > why> > > I> > > > > should worry. But it is my social duty to inform some truth,> > > > Because> > > > > they are not aware with the otherside story, and it is up to > them> > > > to> > > > > decide, but definitely I am not interested in the business of> > > > > defeating or defending. I am only interested in the Truth.> > > > >> > > > > What to say for "Though i dont know much astrology, I m ready > to> > > > > enter into a debate". Though I don't think that you don't know> > > > > astrology. But it is true that many innocent persons who > really> > > > don't> > > > > know about the astrology; prepared to discuss as to how some> > > > > predictions turned to be true and so on without any counter> > > > arguments> > > > > ………….> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Waiting for your comments. Thanks once again,> > > > >> > > > > Yours,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Sanat> > > > > Sanatkumar_jain@> > > > >> > > > > (If you will allow then I will answer one by one to other > mails> > > > also)> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol"> > > > > <litsol@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Mr. Sanat,> > > > > >> > > > > > U deserve our regards, Thanx a lot for posting this mail to > the> > > > > > group. however, i w'd like to let u know, u r not alone who> > > > thinks> > > > > > like this and carries same questions in his mind.> > > > > >> > > > > > Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our> > > > > literature> > > > > > is not available containing the procedures,third problem is > we> > > > are> > > > > a> > > > > > irresponsible selfish community whose life revolves around> > > > survival> > > > > > issues and last problem is we were never procedure > oriented, we> > > > > > always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried > to> > > > > > rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to > share> > > > our> > > > > > knowledge easily.> > > > > >> > > > > > still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions > come> > > > > true> > > > > > and it can describe ur looks without watching u.> > > > > >> > > > > > you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will> > > > offer> > > > > my> > > > > > life long assistance to you.> > > > > >> > > > > > regards,> > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "sanat2221"> > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to> > > some> > > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not > studied> > > in> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed > like> > > > > this.> > > > > > So> > > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as > to> > > > > whether> > > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of > science> > > > due> > > > > to> > > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the > sentiments of> > > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only> > > want> > > > > to> > > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let > us> > > > > > examine> > > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because > you> > > > > have> > > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are> > > > standing> > > > > > in> > > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has > been> > > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology > is> > > a> > > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can> > > > understand> > > > > > the> > > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business > but> > > > if> > > > > > you> > > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or> > > call> > > > > an> > > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in> > > early> > > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being > has> > > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This> > > > > > religious> > > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet > (Sun,> > > > > Moon,> > > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days> > > only> > > > > > sages> > > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus > after> > > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill > to> > > > > > predict> > > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called> > > > > grabbing> > > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and > Ketu.> > > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and > its> > > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer> > > donations> > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, > which is> > > > > still> > > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of> > > > > > everybody> > > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this> > > > situation,> > > > > it> > > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict > the> > > > fate> > > > > of> > > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict > the> > > > > fate> > > > > > of> > > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate> > > various> > > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then > knowledge of> > > > > sages> > > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These> > > > > > principles> > > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never> > > > > > percolated> > > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier > to> > > > learn> > > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these > principles> > > > > were> > > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as> > > Western> > > > > > system.> > > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One> > > group> > > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology> > > due> > > > to> > > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always > try> > > to> > > > > fit> > > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological > principle> > > > > within> > > > > > a> > > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and > faith> > > > > etc.,> > > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too> > > diabolical> > > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in > fluke)> > > > may> > > > > > come> > > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and > start> > > > > self> > > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle > on> > > > other> > > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only> > > > > mislead,> > > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can> > > find> > > > > > that> > > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group> > > (say> > > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against> > > > astrology.> > > > > > But> > > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was> > > the> > > > > > level> > > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed> > > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what > procedure> > > was> > > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to > Lordship,> > > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, > Vinshottary> > > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles > then> > > > > > following> > > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in> > > > > subpara).> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among> > > seven> > > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the> > > > stationary> > > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is > enmity> > > and> > > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are > enemy> > > of> > > > > > each> > > > > > > other) ?> > > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and > demons> > > > over> > > > > > > nector after sea-churning………..> > > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect > (full,> > > > > > quarter> > > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect > on> > > > > seventh> > > > > > > house) ?> > > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are> > > exalted> > > > > and> > > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. > of> > > > Aries> > > > > > > sign) ?> > > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when > duration> > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > > day is more in comparison to night……> > > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful > and> > > > hub> > > > > > of> > > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha > whereas> > > > Venus> > > > > > (a> > > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the > effect> > > of> > > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various > constellations> > > > > > between> > > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a> > > week> > > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the> > > > > structure> > > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde> > > motion> > > > of> > > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are> > > 180> > > > > deg.> > > > > > > apart?> > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of > eclipse ?> > > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation> > month……….> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final > question as> > > > to> > > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one> > > gave> > > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that > entire> > > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong > concept of> > > > > > > Universe.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the > then> > > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed > by> > > > sage> > > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is > in> > > the> > > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also > believed in> > > > all> > > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read> > > any> > > > > old> > > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas > Moon> > > is> > > > > > beyond> > > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury > and> > > > Moon.> > > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological > principles> > > > are> > > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self > studying> > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude> > > correct> > > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same> > > combination> > > > > is> > > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh > logically> > > > and> > > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive> > > > > concept> > > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling > in> > > > view> > > > > of> > > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive> > > > concept> > > > > > of> > > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on> > > > > > astrology "Jyotish -> > > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book> > > > contains> > > > > > the> > > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles > on> > > the> > > > > > basis> > > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our> > > sages> > > > > to> > > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published > in> > > > > English> > > > > > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). > You> > > > can> > > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change > the> > > > face> > > > > of> > > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to > know> > > > > more> > > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you> > > may> > > > > send> > > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.> > > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?> > > > > produktID=1759836> > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?> AUB=sanat%> > > > > 20kumar%> > > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?> > > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > > > >> > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, > Neptune> > > > nor> > > > > > they> > > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to> > > > presence> > > > > > of> > > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed > the> > > > > > concept> > > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was> > > > > mentioned> > > > > > in> > > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came> > > within> > > > > 14> > > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).> > > But> > > > > > nobody> > > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse> > > when> > > > > > Sun,> > > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree> > > > respectively> > > > > > on> > > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, > Moon> > > and> > > > > > Ketu> > > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on > 03-> > > 03-> > > > > 1988> > > > > > (> > > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar> > > > > eclipses> > > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was > more> > > > then> > > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at> > > 79.04> > > > > > deg.> > > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon > were> > > at> > > > > > 76.49> > > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu > was> > > > > 15.14> > > > > > > deg. away).> > > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you > will> > > > > also> > > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse > occurred> > > at> > > > > the> > > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it> > > was> > > > > not> > > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the > basis of> > > > > > myth).> > > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, > when> > > > > Moon> > > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be > there.> > > > But> > > > > > As> > > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-> > > 1985> > > > > and> > > > > > 3-> > > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were > full> > > > > solar> > > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 > degree> > > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full > solar> > > > > > eclipses> > > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and> > > 166> > > > > > degree> > > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may> > > > possible.> > > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in> > > almanac.> > > > > > Thus> > > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees> > > > respectively.> > > > > > All> > > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this> > > > > fundamental> > > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you> > > want> > > > > then> > > > > > I> > > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of> > > detecting> > > > > > them.> > > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a > science> > > > but> > > > > in> > > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of > astronomy> > > +> > > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,> > > psychology> > > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive > age)> > > > > played> > > > > > an> > > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due > to> > > > > > immense> > > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology> > > > > appears> > > > > > to> > > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will > also> > > > > agree> > > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original> > > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-> decided> > > as> > > > > was> > > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may> > > try> > > > to> > > > > > do> > > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according > to> > > > pre-> > > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of > modifying> > > > that> > > > > > pre-> > > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our > fate,> > > > even> > > > > > then> > > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating > a> > > > > > cascading> > > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of> > > every> > > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or > say> > > > pre-> > > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when> > > > every> > > > > > Tom,> > > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,> > > good> > > > > deed> > > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under> > > > change.> > > > > > You> > > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical> > > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and > can> > > > > never> > > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart > cannot> > > be> > > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction > is> > > > also> > > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever> > > > > > prewritten)> > > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.> > > because> > > > in> > > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be> > > > altered> > > > > > but> > > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked > prediction> > > can> > > > > be> > > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed > transit> > > of> > > > > > > planets?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest> > > assured> > > > > > that> > > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. > Only> > > > > > astronomy> > > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were > used> > > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it > appears> > > > > > correct.> > > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a > myth.> > > > > Still> > > > > > if> > > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact > The> > > > > James> > > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 > prize> > > to> > > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-> mail> > > and> > > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern> > > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being > used> > > > to> > > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested> > > > business> > > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight > this> > > > sort> > > > > > of> > > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in > this> > > > > regard> > > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology> > > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to > formulate> > > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct> > > information> > > > > of> > > > > > > Universe, solar system.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further> > > > > interaction> > > > > > on> > > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know> > > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before> > > falling> > > > > in> > > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS> > > > > (Astrology> > > > > > Is> > > > > > > Damaging Society).> > > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain> > > > > > > Gwalior> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of> > > creating> > > > > > > problems to moderator> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nair,

Thanks for your mail.

>>>>>>-the astro literatue is so wast and no body with 40 life time

cannot realy master it and with so many calamities and wars it has

destroyed many guruparamparas and some logics behind it <<<<<

 

If no body is master then how and what are the predictions being

made by astrologer instead of befooling general public (with half

knowledge according to you) and it is destroyed in wars then again

why are supporting some missing knowledge.

 

>>>>>> we dont get all this knowledge from mesopetomia or greeks<<<<<

 

Even basic of prediction ie sign have been borrwed by sages from

Greek. And they mixed it with religious concept (Read Vishnu Puran

written by sage Parashar)

 

>>>>> i hav interacted with many scholars with many

countries and I know what is their opinions.<<<<<

 

It does not mean Indian astrology is correct.

 

>>>>>> Rishis used all 9 planets as grahas not planets ,its the in

ability of english laungage .<<<<<<<

If Mercury is called Grah in India and planet in western then what

is the difference in concept. Different name is only due to language.

 

>>>>>> as varahamihira clearly mentioned grahanam

sata kodi ---------(means planets are may be 100s of crores in this

universe<<<<<<<

Do you think that sata kodi planets (grah) are hovering over the

stationary Earth (which was his concept). And if so they why they are

taking the effect of only 7 grah and not of all because you

said>>>>>>>> Graha means which can capture u ,or influence u ,<<<<<<

Thus why don't take the effect of all.

 

>>>>>>> and which ever come in ecliptical path of earths and

influence us are 7 tara grahas and 2 chaya grahas<<<<<<<<

 

Fortunately not a single planet ever come in the ecliptical path of

the Earth (sages concept was that it is fixed and now you have even

borrowed the knowledge from abroad to say that it is orbiting)

otherwise I cant say about you but rest of the world would have been

eliminated.

 

 

>>>>> veda vyasa was describing abt indra ,varuna ,rudra

(neptune ,puto ,uranus) in Mahabharath wars time<<<<<

Chandrashekar ji was saying that why scientist have withdrawn Pluto

from the list of planets and now you are saying that they are

mentioned in Mahabarat. Is their any scripture which say about the

existence of these planets before their discovery . Why they are not

in Rigved like all other planets. Why they are not taken in

astrological principels when the size of Uranus and Neptune is much

more then the size of the Earth. Simple, Because our sages could not

see them like us with bare eyes.

 

>>>>>> So u without understanding this basics written a book and

asking us to prove what ???<<<<<<

How you can say without reading the book. I have just asked some

question to answer. If you don't know the answer then it is not my

fault. Thus I asked to read the book as to how all astrological

principles were formulated and on what basis.

 

>>>>>>> dont parrot any randi or mandi and withdraw

ur book and offer appologies .<<<<<<<

By using some filty language against any organization you are not

going to prove your stand. Because such people can kill the Galileo

but can never kill the knowledge.

 

>>>>>> i repeat astrology is used for predicting ,not proving the

speed or physical properties of any planets .<<<<<

I have never asked to intimate the properties (because it is

astronomy) though astrologers have borrowed the same information from

NASA and proudly including in the first part of every astrological

book to befool general public so that they may think that astrology

is scientific. I know that astrology means prediction that's why I am

asking that either you provide the answer as to how predictive

principles were formulated or do prediction on some pointed questions

which I have already provided in my earlier blogs.

 

>>>>>brihat samhita of varahamihira

in predicting weather and natural calamities .I<<<<<<

Yes, our sages only uses the position of planets to know the

wheather. It was only a wrong direction of correct knowledge by which

we start to forecast about the future instead of weather.

 

>>>>>> Now natal charts are more seen by any astrologers as no one

including ruling parities or ministers r not worry abt what will

happen to nation this year .<<<<<<<<<

No astrologer can predict about this. Whether some astrologer

predicted about any Naturral calamity or collapse of any counry and

so on.

 

>>>>>>>.And he submited a report to govt of india and his

superiors also and if his report is approved ,then there is no scope

for kick backs and commissions .<<<<<<<

If some Minister or Officer who is interested in astrology would be

their then he will definetly appoint him as a chief advisor. But

except Murli Manohar Joshi who has lost his govt on the advise of

astrologer.

 

>>>>>> i may opt to not to reply u<<<<<

It is always your right.

 

Thanks for your comment but you are just moving here and there but

not answering my question (10 questions in first blog with Rahu Ketu

and 4 question about prediction). But don't worry I know every

astrologer is befooling general public and exploiting their faith

towards sages, scriptures etc….

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

 

5-12-2007

 

Re: Astrology a science or myth

Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala

astro_tellerkerala

Mon Dec 3, 2007 1:06 pm (PST)

 

 

Hare ramakrishna ,

 

dear sanat kumar ji .

 

even thou this mail is adressed to respected chandra ji i would like

to answer ur concerns .

 

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Hare ramakrishna ,

>

> dear sanat kumar ji .

>

>

>

> even thou this mail is adressed to respected chandra ji i would

like

> to answer ur concerns .

>

> Astrology is not a science which can be proved in table top like a

> laboratory science and its based on anubhava and anumana (means

> experience and observations) and its a body of knowledge .what u

want to

> prove -the astro literatue is so wast and no body with 40 life time

> cannot realy master it and with so many calamities and wars it has

> destroyed many guruparamparas and some logics behind it .If u

collect

> all shokas may be one billion slokas may be in astro with 100s of

> systems .we dont get all this knowledge from mesopetomia or greeks

> >instead of reading western his --stroeys u pls go ur self and try

to

> find at least one classics from any of this place s dealing in astro

>

> U hav not done it where as i hav interacted with many scholars with

many

> countries and I know what is their opinions.

>

> First of all pls remove ur concern abt planets and grahas .

>

> Rishis used all 9 planets as grahas not planets ,its the in ability

of

> english laungage .

>

> Graha means which can capture u ,or influence u ,remembr the word

grahan

> .in surya grahan or chandra grahan .

>

> again in any amount new planets being discovered ( dis--covered

means

> removing cover only means it was there b4 and not an invention) is

not a

> worry for hindu astrologers as varahamihira clearly mentioned

grahanam

> sata kodi ---------(means planets are may be 100s of crores in this

> universe and which ever come in ecliptical path of earths and

influence

> us are 7 tara grahas and 2 chaya grahas ( means a smoke and has no

mass

> ) ,tho veda vyasa was describing abt indra ,varuna ,rudra

(neptune ,puto

> ,uranus) in Mahabharath wars time and their rasi positions and

also he

> was describing some comet also appeared .

>

> So u without understanding this basics written a book and asking us

to

> prove what ???

>

> first u learn the subjuct ,dont parrot any randi or mandi and

withdraw

> ur book and offer appologies .

>

> i repeat astrology is used for predicting ,not proving the speed or

> physical properties of any planets .That we r least bothered as its

not

> our domain .Even late director of indian weather forcast agency sri

> Pisharody i know what was his opion abt brihat samhita of

varahamihira

> in predicting weather and natural calamities .If u want his

lectures are

> available with indian sastra congress,if u can try u may get it .He

was

> also a very learned man in his subjuct and born in a vedic family of

> kerala astrologers .means he was a sceintist.

>

> But dont ask me to predict any weather forcast as astro has been

devided

> as ganita (astronomy ) golasastra and then only

natal ,national,prashna

> horoscopies .So try to understand that differrence also .

>

> Now natal charts are more seen by any astrologers as no one

including

> ruling parities or ministers r not worry abt what will happen to

nation

> this year .

>

> for ur kind information one astrologer who is working in madras

weather

> burea has successfully predicted various Tsunamies with may be 20

or 30

> minits difference and also for coming days and i think that is even

> available in net also .And he submited a report to govt of india

and his

> superiors also

>

> and if his report is approved ,then there is no scope for kick

backs and

> commissions .

>

> as a 100 crore rs /- equipment may predict Tsunami at 500KM/hr

means if

> its coming from indonesia ,u can work out how

>

> many hours a government will get to evacuvate the victims .But

> equipments are ordered and also installed .

>

> I think i answered some of ur main questions .Next time read arya

> bhatiyam by aryabhatta and bhaskariyam by bhaskaracharya and also

> varahmihira and pls come with that knowledge otherwise i may opt to

not

> to reply u .And if cannot read and wants us to answer then i hav

nothing

> to say . []

>

>

>

> regrds sunil nair .

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering the

> > many questions raised so far.

> >

> > You said

> > >>>>>>……However if the sages have not changed their views of what

> > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are to

be

> > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

science.

> > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating the

> > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific knowledge

or

> > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day. But

if

> > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest with

> > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

> > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or under-

> > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best

with

> > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept. In

> > other words I may say that the person who has devised the wheel or

> > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

Because he

> > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st century

> > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent person

(he

> > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge was

> > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because

> > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used by

> > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now

and

> > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations too

had

> > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in the

> > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

realize

> > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and primitive

> > with reference to modern knowledge.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>>but there is a difference in the way planet is defined by

> > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is defined by

the

> > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<

> > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable thing is

> > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties. Then

> > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think otherwise

in

> > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even then

> > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they move

> > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun is a

> > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

> > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is sphere

or

> > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our

sages

> > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and best

> > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner of

> > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

> > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of human

> > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system. But he

was

> > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has been

> > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he offered

> > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

used to

> > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in the

> > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the Galileo,

> > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

Bible.

> > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the death.

> > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages and

> > religion.

> >

> > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is only

> > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of development

> > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not have

> > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of

21st

> > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of 40th

> > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should not

> > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they were

not

> > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of Greek,

> > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn any

> > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the principle of

> > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with the

> > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every body

> > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

life on

> > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so

on. In

> > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

(troubles

> > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so on)

> > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King and

> > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to formulate

some

> > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the

> > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus some

> > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

known in

> > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not

> > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in Manusmriti

> > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be expelled

> > from the gathering of learned.

> >

> > >>>>>>>Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose

> > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<

> > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages were

> > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to see,

then

> > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this. At

the

> > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it was

> > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of solar

> > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But it

> > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental process.

> >

> > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains left

in

> > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to continue or

not

> > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give

reply

> > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book). But

I

> > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

question.

> > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away from

> > direct discussion.

> >

> > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > 3-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanat,

> > >

> > > It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern day

> > > scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of

what in

> > > their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be

taken

> > as

> > > sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their views of

> > what

> > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are

to

> > be

> > > called primitive.

> > >

> > > I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a

> > difference in

> > > the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the manner

in

> > which

> > > a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of

Jyotish.

> > > Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose will

be

> > > served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

knowledge

> > of

> > > astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > sanat2221 wrote:

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar.

> > > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > > Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog. But

you

> > > > raised question about Pluto.

> > > > I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as to

why

> > it

> > > > was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you

are

> > > > checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to

your

> > > > question.

> > > >

> > > > It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body

among

> > the

> > > > fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge and

> > > > experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn

> > were

> > > > treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as

planets

> > by

> > > > our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are

now

> > > > propagating in the name of astrology.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus found

by

> > > > William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In continuity

of

> > this

> > > > discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries of

> > Pallas,

> > > > Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered

Pluto

> > > > planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt, In

> > 2005,

> > > > Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and it

> > was

> > > > thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that

none

> > of

> > > > these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India,

> > because

> > > > all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the

name

> > of

> > > > forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> > > >

> > > > It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that

any

> > > > moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small

bodies

> > > > around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third

> > condition

> > > > hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

Jena

> > etc.

> > > > bodies could not be treated as planet and another category of

> > Dwarf

> > > > planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to

> > accommodate

> > > > all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf planet

> > number

> > > > 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight planets

> > > > (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and

> > Neptune).

> > > > So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when are

> > you

> > > > and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in

> > > > Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the name

of

> > > > sages.

> > > >

> > > > I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am

sure

> > > > that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sanat

> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Dear Sanatkumar,

> > > >>

> > > >> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance Pluto

> > was

> > > >> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a planet

> > and

> > > >>

> > > > only

> > > >

> > > >> recently declassified from that status, before you question

the

> > > >> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the

> > principles,

> > > >>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new

> > methods

> > > >>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >> astrological predictions.

> > > >>

> > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > >>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

some

> > > >>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied in

> > > >>>

> > > > depth

> > > >

> > > >>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like

> > > >>>

> > > > this. So

> > > >

> > > >>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > > >>>

> > > > whether

> > > >

> > > >>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science

> > due

> > > >>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments

of

> > > >>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

want

> > to

> > > >>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

> > > >>>

> > > > examine

> > > >

> > > >>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> > have

> > > >>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > standing

> > > >>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> > > >>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is a

> > > >>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > understand

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> > if

> > > >>>

> > > > you

> > > >

> > > >>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

call

> > an

> > > >>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> > > >>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > >>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > >>>

> > > > religious

> > > >

> > > >>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > >>>

> > > > Moon,

> > > >

> > > >>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

only

> > > >>>

> > > > sages

> > > >

> > > >>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > >>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> > > >>>

> > > > predict

> > > >

> > > >>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > >>>

> > > > grabbing

> > > >

> > > >>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > > >>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > > >>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

donations

> > > >>>

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > >>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

is

> > > >>>

> > > > still

> > > >

> > > >>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > >>>

> > > > everybody

> > > >

> > > >>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > situation,

> > > >>>

> > > > it

> > > >

> > > >>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> > fate

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > > >>>

> > > > fate of

> > > >

> > > >>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

various

> > > >>> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> > > >>>

> > > > sages

> > > >

> > > >>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > >>>

> > > > principles

> > > >

> > > >>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > >>>

> > > > percolated

> > > >

> > > >>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> > learn

> > > >>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > were

> > > >>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> > > >>>

> > > > system.

> > > >

> > > >>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

group

> > > >>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

due

> > to

> > > >>> their business considerations (these astrologers always try

to

> > fit

> > > >>> past event very precisely within some astrological principle

> > > >>>

> > > > within a

> > > >

> > > >>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

> > etc.,

> > > >>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > >>>

> > > > astrological

> > > >

> > > >>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > >>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> > may

> > > >>>

> > > > come

> > > >

> > > >>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > self

> > > >>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> > other

> > > >>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > mislead,

> > > >>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

find

> > > >>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

(say

> > > >>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > astrology.

> > > >>>

> > > > But

> > > >

> > > >>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

the

> > > >>>

> > > > level

> > > >

> > > >>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > >>> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure

was

> > > >>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > >>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > >>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > > >>>

> > > > following

> > > >

> > > >>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > >>>

> > > > subpara).

> > > >

> > > >>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> > > >>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > stationary

> > > >>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

and

> > > >>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy of

> > > >>>

> > > > each

> > > >

> > > >>> other) ?

> > > >>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons

> > over

> > > >>> nector after sea-churning...........

> > > >>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> > > >>>

> > > > quarter

> > > >

> > > >>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > > >>>

> > > > seventh

> > > >

> > > >>> house) ?

> > > >>> Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

exalted

> > > >>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> > Aries

> > > >>> sign) ?

> > > >>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

of

> > the

> > > >>> day is more in comparison to night......

> > > >>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > hub

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> > Venus

> > > >>>

> > > > (a

> > > >

> > > >>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > >>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of

> > > >>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > > >>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> > > >>>

> > > > between

> > > >

> > > >>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> > > >>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > >>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > >>>

> > > > structure

> > > >

> > > >>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

motion

> > of

> > > >>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > > >>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

180

> > > >>>

> > > > deg.

> > > >

> > > >>> apart?

> > > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > > >>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > > >>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

month..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

as to

> > > >>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> > > >>> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > > >>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

of

> > > >>> Universe.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > > >>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

sage

> > > >>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

the

> > > >>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

in

> > all

> > > >>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

any

> > old

> > > >>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

is

> > > >>>

> > > > beyond

> > > >

> > > >>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> > Moon.

> > > >>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > are

> > > >>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> > > >>>

> > > > astrology

> > > >

> > > >>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

correct

> > > >>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

combination

> > is

> > > >>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > and

> > > >>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > concept

> > > >>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> > view

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > concept

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > >>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > >>>

> > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > >

> > > >>> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > contains

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

the

> > > >>>

> > > > basis

> > > >

> > > >>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

sages

> > to

> > > >>> formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> > > >>>

> > > > English

> > > >

> > > >>> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > can

> > > >>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> > face

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

know

> > more

> > > >>> about the book or description of various chapters then you

may

> > > >>>

> > > > send

> > > >

> > > >>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > >>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > >>>

> > > > produktID=1759836

> > > >

> > > >>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > > >>>

> > > > 20kumar%

> > > >

> > > >>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > > >>>

> > > > 20kumar%>

> > > >

> > > >>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > >>>

> > > >>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > >>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > >>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > >>>

> > > >>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune

> > nor

> > > >>>

> > > > they

> > > >

> > > >>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > presence

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

> > > >>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > >>>

> > > > mentioned in

> > > >

> > > >>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

within

> > 14

> > > >>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

But

> > > >>>

> > > > nobody

> > > >

> > > >>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

when

> > > >>>

> > > > Sun,

> > > >

> > > >>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > respectively

> > > >>>

> > > > on

> > > >

> > > >>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

and

> > > >>>

> > > > Ketu

> > > >

> > > >>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

03-

> > > >>>

> > > > 1988 (

> > > >

> > > >>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > eclipses

> > > >>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more

> > then

> > > >>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> 79.04

> > > >>>

> > > > deg.

> > > >

> > > >>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

at

> > > >>>

> > > > 76.49

> > > >

> > > >>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> > 15.14

> > > >>> deg. away).

> > > >>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > also

> > > >>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred at

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

was

> > not

> > > >>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

of

> > > >>>

> > > > myth).

> > > >

> > > >>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > Moon

> > > >>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > But

> > > >>>

> > > > As

> > > >

> > > >>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

1985

> > > >>>

> > > > and 3-

> > > >

> > > >>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > > >>>

> > > > solar

> > > >

> > > >>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > > >>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

> > > >>>

> > > > eclipses

> > > >

> > > >>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

166

> > > >>>

> > > > degree

> > > >

> > > >>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

possible.

> > > >>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

almanac.

> > > >>>

> > > > Thus

> > > >

> > > >>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > respectively.

> > > >>>

> > > > All

> > > >

> > > >>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > fundamental

> > > >>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

want

> > > >>>

> > > > then I

> > > >

> > > >>> can give many more examples and very simple method of

detecting

> > > >>>

> > > > them.

> > > >

> > > >>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science

> > but

> > > >>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy +

> > > >>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > > >>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> > > >>>

> > > > played an

> > > >

> > > >>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> > > >>>

> > > > immense

> > > >

> > > >>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > >>>

> > > > appears to

> > > >

> > > >>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> > > >>>

> > > > agree

> > > >

> > > >>> with the above observation after going through my original

> > > >>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided as

> > > >>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

try

> > to

> > > >>>

> > > > do

> > > >

> > > >>> some thing, because every thing will take place according to

> > pre-

> > > >>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> > that

> > > >>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> > even

> > > >>>

> > > > then

> > > >

> > > >>> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> > > >>>

> > > > cascading

> > > >

> > > >>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

every

> > > >>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > pre-

> > > >>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > every

> > > >>>

> > > > Tom,

> > > >

> > > >>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

good

> > > >>>

> > > > deed

> > > >

> > > >>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > change.

> > > >>>

> > > > You

> > > >

> > > >>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > >>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > >>>

> > > > never

> > > >

> > > >>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot be

> > > >>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

also

> > > >>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > >>>

> > > > prewritten)

> > > >

> > > >>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

because

> > in

> > > >>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > altered

> > > >>>

> > > > but

> > > >

> > > >>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

can

> > be

> > > >>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit

of

> > > >>> planets?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

assured

> > > >>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> > > >>>

> > > > astronomy

> > > >

> > > >>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > > >>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> > > >>>

> > > > correct.

> > > >

> > > >>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

> > > >>>

> > > > Still if

> > > >

> > > >>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> > James

> > > >>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize to

> > > >>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail

and

> > > >>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > >>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > >>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used to

> > > >>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

business

> > > >>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this

> > sort

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

> > regard

> > > >>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > >>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > >>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct

information

> > of

> > > >>> Universe, solar system.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > >>>

> > > > interaction on

> > > >

> > > >>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

better

> > to

> > > >>>

> > > > know

> > > >

> > > >>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

falling

> > in

> > > >>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > >>>

> > > > (Astrology Is

> > > >

> > > >>> Damaging Society).

> > > >>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > >>> Gwalior

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

creating

> > > >>> problems to moderator

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

Thanks for rejoinder,

I will try to answer your points

 

>>>>>>>>science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

knowledge " as you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

Primitive knowledge.<<<<<<<<

 

Let me clear some confusion in understanding or explanation.

Knowledge is a continuous process. And every knowledge is modern so

long it is serving the purpose and some new concept is not developed.

But if in the era of modern knowledge (not 21st century but even in

past) if some one try to push that old concept or some principles

formulated on that old concept which have been proven wrong then it

is primitive knowledge and we must come out from it.

 

Let me further clear. Principle of Archemidies about the density

though formulated before 200 BC but no body will say that it is

primitive. Because nothing new have been devised. But if you even

want to purchase a 386 or AT/XT computer then every body will say it

is old and it will not be available though it is mearly 10 years old.

Like wise the concept of every religion or society was that Earth is

stationary, though there may be various concept (including the

concept of Ptolemy who was of the view that Earth is sphere) but

only the concept of stationary Earth was acceptable beyond doubt.

Concept of Indian sages was that Sun is nearer (1lakh yojan above or

14.4 Lakh km above the Earth) and Moon is above the Sun,

Constellation was above the Moon and below the Mercury and so on ………

(refer Vishnu Puran written by sage Parashar who was the founder of

astrological principles). In this situation how Parashar could have

developed the astrological principles (predictive) which may be based

on the modern concept of solar system, which have been proudly

included in almost every astrological book in such a way so that

general public may think that astrology is scientific. So it is

astrologers who are befooling general public and some interested

persons take it as hobby and instead of studying the truth behind

it, simply lost in the forest of prediction where they never find a

single true prediction except some fluke. Businessmen astrologer

are so cunning that they take shelter behind sage or science

whichever suits to them.

 

>>>>>>>It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

Copernicus. If this is your view, it maybe better that you read more

Jyotish books on

siddhanta and then advance your theories.<<<<<<<

 

I will like to know about some siddhant which have been accepted

before Copernicus. Please do not forget to intimate me so that I may

ask Education deptt. to change the chapters accordingly.

 

>>>>>Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

certain concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

one.<<<<<<<<

 

Every concept either it may subsequently be right or wrong can never

be accepted without some logic. Hence I am right in asking as to how

a principle was devised. If you want to know as to how it was devised

within the framework of the then knowledge then I have given some

short hints after every question or you read my book or you give

some logical answer instead of beating the bush on the basis of your

faith, igonorence and lack of inquisitiveness. Sorrry I do not want

to hurt your feelings about the primitive concept. But it is your

right to think in any way either by learning/ reading or by

believing. But I will say what is the harm in digging any knowledge.

 

>>>>>>>>>am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of the

greatest invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying

that you can not reinvent the wheel. it appe<<<<<<<

I have said

………and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because that primitive

wheel has not yet been changed and still used by Aadiwasis whereas

wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and then………..

that " we must use that wheel…… " here that means which one was

created by ancient people, either it may be bamboo piece or it may

be like a solid wheel or wheel used in bullock cart but none of these

wheels can be used in Aeroplane, on the plea that wheel of bullock

cart was used by our sages. Thus If sages have the view of fixed

Earth, there is no harm because it was the then knowledge which was

subsequently modified to solar system after thousands of years.

 

But still answer to my first blog is still pending. It is your right

that you may not answer because actually it is not your fault as you

have not devised the principles but it is correct that you have never

asked such questions in the wind of prediction. But why don't you

take this new venture to find the truth and serving the people in

that way.

 

Thanks for your valuable comments.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Sanat,

>

> I do not understand why a changeable definition of basic parameters

of a

> science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

knowledge " as

> you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are Primitive knowledge.

>

> It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

Copernicus. If

> this is your view, it maybe better that you read more Jyotish books

on

> siddhanta and then advance your theories.

>

> Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

certain

> concept is your own view and not necessarily the right one.

>

> I do not know your source of information on wheel or its structure

but

> am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of the

greatest

> invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying that you

can

> not reinvent the wheel. it appears you do not to that

view and

> apply engineering principles in a manner not know to engineers,

when you

> talk about wheels.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> sanat2221 wrote:

> > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering the

> > many questions raised so far.

> >

> > You said

> >

> >>>>>>> ......However if the sages have not changed their views of

what

> >>>>>>>

> > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are to

be

> > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

science.

> > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating the

> > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific knowledge

or

> > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day. But

if

> > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest with

> > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

> > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or under-

> > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best

with

> > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept. In

> > other words I may say that the person who has devised the wheel

or

> > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

Because he

> > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st

century

> > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent person

(he

> > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge was

> > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because

> > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used by

> > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now

and

> > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations too

had

> > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in the

> > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

realize

> > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and

primitive

> > with reference to modern knowledge.

> >

> >

> >

> >>>>>>>> but there is a difference in the way planet is defined by

> >>>>>>>>

> > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is defined by

the

> > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<

> > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable thing

is

> > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties.

Then

> > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think otherwise

in

> > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even

then

> > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they

move

> > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun is

a

> > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

> > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is sphere

or

> > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our

sages

> > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and best

> > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner

of

> > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

> > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of

human

> > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system. But he

was

> > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has been

> > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he

offered

> > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

used to

> > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in the

> > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the

Galileo,

> > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

Bible.

> > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the

death.

> > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages and

> > religion.

> >

> > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is only

> > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of development

> > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not

have

> > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of

21st

> > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of

40th

> > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should not

> > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they were

not

> > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of Greek,

> > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn any

> > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the principle of

> > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with

the

> > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every body

> > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

life on

> > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so

on. In

> > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

(troubles

> > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so on)

> > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King and

> > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to formulate

some

> > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the

> > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus some

> > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

known in

> > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not

> > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in

Manusmriti

> > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be

expelled

> > from the gathering of learned.

> >

> >

> >>>>>>>> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose

> >>>>>>>>

> > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<

> > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages

were

> > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to see,

then

> > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this. At

the

> > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it was

> > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of

solar

> > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But

it

> > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental process.

> >

> > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains left

in

> > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to continue or

not

> > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give

reply

> > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book). But

I

> > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

question.

> > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away

from

> > direct discussion.

> >

> > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain

> > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > 3-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> >> Dear Sanat,

> >>

> >> It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern day

> >> scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of what

in

> >> their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be

taken

> >>

> > as

> >

> >> sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their views of

> >>

> > what

> >

> >> should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are

to

> >>

> > be

> >

> >> called primitive.

> >>

> >> I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a

> >>

> > difference in

> >

> >> the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the manner

in

> >>

> > which

> >

> >> a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of

Jyotish.

> >> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose will

be

> >> served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

knowledge

> >>

> > of

> >

> >> astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> >>

> >> Chandrashekhar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> sanat2221 wrote:

> >>

> >>> Dear Chandrashekhar.

> >>> Thanks for your mail.

> >>> Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog. But

you

> >>> raised question about Pluto.

> >>> I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as to

why

> >>>

> > it

> >

> >>> was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you are

> >>> checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to

your

> >>> question.

> >>>

> >>> It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body

among

> >>>

> > the

> >

> >>> fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge and

> >>> experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn

> >>>

> > were

> >

> >>> treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as

planets

> >>>

> > by

> >

> >>> our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are

now

> >>> propagating in the name of astrology.

> >>>

> >>> On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus found

by

> >>> William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In continuity

of

> >>>

> > this

> >

> >>> discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries of

> >>>

> > Pallas,

> >

> >>> Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered Pluto

> >>> planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt, In

> >>>

> > 2005,

> >

> >>> Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and it

> >>>

> > was

> >

> >>> thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that

none

> >>>

> > of

> >

> >>> these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India,

> >>>

> > because

> >

> >>> all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the

name

> >>>

> > of

> >

> >>> forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> >>>

> >>> It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that

any

> >>> moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small bodies

> >>> around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third

> >>>

> > condition

> >

> >>> hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

Jena

> >>>

> > etc.

> >

> >>> bodies could not be treated as planet and another category of

> >>>

> > Dwarf

> >

> >>> planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to

> >>>

> > accommodate

> >

> >>> all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf planet

> >>>

> > number

> >

> >>> 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight planets

> >>> (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and

> >>>

> > Neptune).

> >

> >>> So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when are

> >>>

> > you

> >

> >>> and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in

> >>> Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the name

of

> >>> sages.

> >>>

> >>> I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am

sure

> >>> that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> >>>

> >>> Thanks,

> >>>

> >>> Sanat

> >>> Sanatkumar_jain@

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> >>> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> Dear Sanatkumar,

> >>>>

> >>>> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance Pluto

> >>>>

> > was

> >

> >>>> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a planet

> >>>>

> > and

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> only

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> recently declassified from that status, before you question

the

> >>>> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the

> >>>>

> > principles,

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new

> >>>>

> > methods

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> astrological predictions.

> >>>>

> >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> sanat2221 wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >>>>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> >>>>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied

in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> depth

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> this. So

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> whether

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science

> >>>>>

> > due

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> >>>>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

want

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> examine

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you

> >>>>>

> > have

> >

> >>>>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> >>>>>

> > standing

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> >>>>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> >>>>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> >>>>>

> > understand

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but

> >>>>>

> > if

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> you

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

call

> >>>>>

> > an

> >

> >>>>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> >>>>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> >>>>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> religious

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Moon,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

only

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> sages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> >>>>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> predict

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> grabbing

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> >>>>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> >>>>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

donations

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> etc.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> still

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> everybody

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> >>>>>

> > situation,

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> it

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> >>>>>

> > fate

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> fate of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

various

> >>>>> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> sages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> principles

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> percolated

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> >>>>>

> > learn

> >

> >>>>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles

> >>>>>

> > were

> >

> >>>>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> system.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

group

> >>>>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

due

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> their business considerations (these astrologers always try

to

> >>>>>

> > fit

> >

> >>>>> past event very precisely within some astrological principle

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> within a

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

> >>>>>

> > etc.,

> >

> >>>>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrological

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> >>>>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> >>>>>

> > may

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> come

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

> >>>>>

> > self

> >

> >>>>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> >>>>>

> > other

> >

> >>>>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> >>>>>

> > mislead,

> >

> >>>>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

find

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

(say

> >>>>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> >>>>>

> > astrology.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> But

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> level

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> >>>>> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure

was

> >>>>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> >>>>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> >>>>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> following

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> subpara).

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> >>>>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> >>>>>

> > stationary

> >

> >>>>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

and

> >>>>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy

of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> each

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> other) ?

> >>>>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons

> >>>>>

> > over

> >

> >>>>> nector after sea-churning...........

> >>>>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> quarter

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> seventh

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> house) ?

> >>>>> Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

exalted

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> and

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> >>>>>

> > Aries

> >

> >>>>> sign) ?

> >>>>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

of

> >>>>>

> > the

> >

> >>>>> day is more in comparison to night......

> >>>>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and

> >>>>>

> > hub

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> >>>>>

> > Venus

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> (a

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> >>>>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> >>>>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> >>>>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> between

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> >>>>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> >>>>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> structure

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

motion

> >>>>>

> > of

> >

> >>>>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> >>>>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

180

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deg.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> apart?

> >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> >>>>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> >>>>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

month..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as

to

> >>>>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> >>>>> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> >>>>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> >>>>> Universe.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> >>>>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

sage

> >>>>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

the

> >>>>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in

> >>>>>

> > all

> >

> >>>>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

any

> >>>>>

> > old

> >

> >>>>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

is

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> beyond

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> >>>>>

> > Moon.

> >

> >>>>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles

> >>>>>

> > are

> >

> >>>>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrology

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

correct

> >>>>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

combination

> >>>>>

> > is

> >

> >>>>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically

> >>>>>

> > and

> >

> >>>>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> >>>>>

> > concept

> >

> >>>>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> >>>>>

> > view

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> >>>>>

> > concept

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> >>>>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrology " Jyotish -

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> >>>>>

> > contains

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> basis

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

sages

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> English

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You

> >>>>>

> > can

> >

> >>>>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> >>>>>

> > face

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know

> >>>>>

> > more

> >

> >>>>> about the book or description of various chapters then you

may

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> send

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> >>>>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> produktID=1759836

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 20kumar%

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 20kumar%>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> >>>>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> >>>>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >>>>>

> >>>>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune

> >>>>>

> > nor

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> they

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> >>>>>

> > presence

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> concept

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> mentioned in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

within

> >>>>>

> > 14

> >

> >>>>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

But

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> nobody

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

when

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Sun,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> >>>>>

> > respectively

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> on

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

and

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Ketu

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

03-

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 1988 (

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> >>>>>

> > eclipses

> >

> >>>>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more

> >>>>>

> > then

> >

> >>>>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

79.04

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deg.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

at

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 76.49

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> >>>>>

> > 15.14

> >

> >>>>> deg. away).

> >>>>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will

> >>>>>

> > also

> >

> >>>>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred

at

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

was

> >>>>>

> > not

> >

> >>>>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> myth).

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when

> >>>>>

> > Moon

> >

> >>>>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there.

> >>>>>

> > But

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> As

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

1985

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> and 3-

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> solar

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> >>>>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> eclipses

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

166

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> degree

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

possible.

> >>>>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

almanac.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Thus

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> >>>>>

> > respectively.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> All

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> >>>>>

> > fundamental

> >

> >>>>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

want

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> then I

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> can give many more examples and very simple method of

detecting

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> them.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science

> >>>>>

> > but

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy

+

> >>>>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> >>>>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> played an

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> immense

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> appears to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> agree

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> with the above observation after going through my original

> >>>>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided

as

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> was

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

try

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> do

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> some thing, because every thing will take place according to

> >>>>>

> > pre-

> >

> >>>>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> >>>>>

> > that

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> pre-

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> >>>>>

> > even

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> then

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> cascading

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

every

> >>>>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say

> >>>>>

> > pre-

> >

> >>>>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> >>>>>

> > every

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Tom,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

good

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deed

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> >>>>>

> > change.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> You

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> >>>>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> never

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot

be

> >>>>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

also

> >>>>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> prewritten)

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

because

> >>>>>

> > in

> >

> >>>>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> >>>>>

> > altered

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> but

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

can

> >>>>>

> > be

> >

> >>>>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> >>>>> planets?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

assured

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astronomy

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> >>>>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> correct.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Still if

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> >>>>>

> > James

> >

> >>>>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize

to

> >>>>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail

and

> >>>>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> >>>>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> >>>>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used

to

> >>>>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

business

> >>>>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this

> >>>>>

> > sort

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

> >>>>>

> > regard

> >

> >>>>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> >>>>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> >>>>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct

information

> >>>>>

> > of

> >

> >>>>> Universe, solar system.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I will like to have your critical comments for further

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> interaction on

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> >>>>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

better

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> know

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

falling

> >>>>>

> > in

> >

> >>>>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> (Astrology Is

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Damaging Society).

> >>>>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> >>>>> Gwalior

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

creating

> >>>>> problems to moderator

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanat Ji,

 

I think you have too much time to misuse it. I am writing it after

reading your posts in many lists, groups and blogs.

 

regards

sushil

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

> Thanks for rejoinder,

> I will try to answer your points

>

> >>>>>>>>science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

> knowledge " as you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

> Primitive knowledge.<<<<<<<<

>

> Let me clear some confusion in understanding or explanation.

> Knowledge is a continuous process. And every knowledge is modern so

> long it is serving the purpose and some new concept is not

developed.

> But if in the era of modern knowledge (not 21st century but even in

> past) if some one try to push that old concept or some principles

> formulated on that old concept which have been proven wrong then

it

> is primitive knowledge and we must come out from it.

>

> Let me further clear. Principle of Archemidies about the density

> though formulated before 200 BC but no body will say that it is

> primitive. Because nothing new have been devised. But if you even

> want to purchase a 386 or AT/XT computer then every body will say

it

> is old and it will not be available though it is mearly 10 years

old.

> Like wise the concept of every religion or society was that Earth

is

> stationary, though there may be various concept (including the

> concept of Ptolemy who was of the view that Earth is sphere) but

> only the concept of stationary Earth was acceptable beyond doubt.

> Concept of Indian sages was that Sun is nearer (1lakh yojan above

or

> 14.4 Lakh km above the Earth) and Moon is above the Sun,

> Constellation was above the Moon and below the Mercury and so on

………

> (refer Vishnu Puran written by sage Parashar who was the founder of

> astrological principles). In this situation how Parashar could have

> developed the astrological principles (predictive) which may be

based

> on the modern concept of solar system, which have been proudly

> included in almost every astrological book in such a way so that

> general public may think that astrology is scientific. So it is

> astrologers who are befooling general public and some interested

> persons take it as hobby and instead of studying the truth behind

> it, simply lost in the forest of prediction where they never find

a

> single true prediction except some fluke. Businessmen astrologer

> are so cunning that they take shelter behind sage or science

> whichever suits to them.

>

> >>>>>>>It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

> Copernicus. If this is your view, it maybe better that you read

more

> Jyotish books on

> siddhanta and then advance your theories.<<<<<<<

>

> I will like to know about some siddhant which have been accepted

> before Copernicus. Please do not forget to intimate me so that I

may

> ask Education deptt. to change the chapters accordingly.

>

> >>>>>Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

> certain concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

> one.<<<<<<<<

>

> Every concept either it may subsequently be right or wrong can

never

> be accepted without some logic. Hence I am right in asking as to

how

> a principle was devised. If you want to know as to how it was

devised

> within the framework of the then knowledge then I have given some

> short hints after every question or you read my book or you give

> some logical answer instead of beating the bush on the basis of

your

> faith, igonorence and lack of inquisitiveness. Sorrry I do not want

> to hurt your feelings about the primitive concept. But it is your

> right to think in any way either by learning/ reading or by

> believing. But I will say what is the harm in digging any knowledge.

>

> >>>>>>>>>am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of

the

> greatest invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying

> that you can not reinvent the wheel. it appe<<<<<<<

> I have said

> ………and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because that primitive

> wheel has not yet been changed and still used by Aadiwasis whereas

> wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and then………..

> that " we must use that wheel…… " here that means which one was

> created by ancient people, either it may be bamboo piece or it

may

> be like a solid wheel or wheel used in bullock cart but none of

these

> wheels can be used in Aeroplane, on the plea that wheel of bullock

> cart was used by our sages. Thus If sages have the view of fixed

> Earth, there is no harm because it was the then knowledge which was

> subsequently modified to solar system after thousands of years.

>

> But still answer to my first blog is still pending. It is your

right

> that you may not answer because actually it is not your fault as

you

> have not devised the principles but it is correct that you have

never

> asked such questions in the wind of prediction. But why don't you

> take this new venture to find the truth and serving the people in

> that way.

>

> Thanks for your valuable comments.

>

> Yours truly,

> Sanat

> Sanatkumar_jain

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sanat,

> >

> > I do not understand why a changeable definition of basic

parameters

> of a

> > science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

> knowledge " as

> > you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are Primitive

knowledge.

> >

> > It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

> Copernicus. If

> > this is your view, it maybe better that you read more Jyotish

books

> on

> > siddhanta and then advance your theories.

> >

> > Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

> certain

> > concept is your own view and not necessarily the right one.

> >

> > I do not know your source of information on wheel or its

structure

> but

> > am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of the

> greatest

> > invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying that

you

> can

> > not reinvent the wheel. it appears you do not to that

> view and

> > apply engineering principles in a manner not know to engineers,

> when you

> > talk about wheels.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > sanat2221 wrote:

> > > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > > Namaskar,

> > > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering

the

> > > many questions raised so far.

> > >

> > > You said

> > >

> > >>>>>>> ......However if the sages have not changed their views

of

> what

> > >>>>>>>

> > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are

to

> be

> > > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

> science.

> > > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating the

> > > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific

knowledge

> or

> > > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day.

But

> if

> > > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest

with

> > > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

> > > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or under-

> > > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best

> with

> > > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept.

In

> > > other words I may say that the person who has devised the wheel

> or

> > > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

> Because he

> > > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st

> century

> > > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent person

> (he

> > > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge

was

> > > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane

because

> > > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used by

> > > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now

> and

> > > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations too

> had

> > > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in

the

> > > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

> realize

> > > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and

> primitive

> > > with reference to modern knowledge.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>>>>>>> but there is a difference in the way planet is defined

by

> > >>>>>>>>

> > > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is defined

by

> the

> > > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<

> > > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable thing

> is

> > > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties.

> Then

> > > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think

otherwise

> in

> > > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even

> then

> > > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they

> move

> > > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun

is

> a

> > > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

> > > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is

sphere

> or

> > > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our

> sages

> > > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and

best

> > > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner

> of

> > > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

> > > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of

> human

> > > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system. But

he

> was

> > > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has

been

> > > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he

> offered

> > > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

> used to

> > > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in

the

> > > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the

> Galileo,

> > > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

> Bible.

> > > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the

> death.

> > > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages and

> > > religion.

> > >

> > > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is

only

> > > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of development

> > > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not

> have

> > > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of

> 21st

> > > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of

> 40th

> > > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should

not

> > > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they

were

> not

> > > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of

Greek,

> > > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn

any

> > > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the principle

of

> > > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with

> the

> > > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every

body

> > > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

> life on

> > > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so

> on. In

> > > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

> (troubles

> > > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so

on)

> > > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King

and

> > > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to

formulate

> some

> > > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the

> > > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus

some

> > > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

> known in

> > > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not

> > > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in

> Manusmriti

> > > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be

> expelled

> > > from the gathering of learned.

> > >

> > >

> > >>>>>>>> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much

purpose

> > >>>>>>>>

> > > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<

> > > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages

> were

> > > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to see,

> then

> > > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this. At

> the

> > > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it

was

> > > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of

> solar

> > > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But

> it

> > > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental

process.

> > >

> > > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains

left

> in

> > > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to continue

or

> not

> > > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give

> reply

> > > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book).

But

> I

> > > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

> question.

> > > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away

> from

> > > direct discussion.

> > >

> > > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Sanat

> > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > > 3-12-2007

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > >> Dear Sanat,

> > >>

> > >> It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern day

> > >> scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of

what

> in

> > >> their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be

> taken

> > >>

> > > as

> > >

> > >> sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their views

of

> > >>

> > > what

> > >

> > >> should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are

> to

> > >>

> > > be

> > >

> > >> called primitive.

> > >>

> > >> I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a

> > >>

> > > difference in

> > >

> > >> the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the

manner

> in

> > >>

> > > which

> > >

> > >> a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of

> Jyotish.

> > >> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose

will

> be

> > >> served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

> knowledge

> > >>

> > > of

> > >

> > >> astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> > >>

> > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> sanat2221 wrote:

> > >>

> > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar.

> > >>> Thanks for your mail.

> > >>> Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog. But

> you

> > >>> raised question about Pluto.

> > >>> I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as to

> why

> > >>>

> > > it

> > >

> > >>> was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you

are

> > >>> checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to

> your

> > >>> question.

> > >>>

> > >>> It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body

> among

> > >>>

> > > the

> > >

> > >>> fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge and

> > >>> experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and

Saturn

> > >>>

> > > were

> > >

> > >>> treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as

> planets

> > >>>

> > > by

> > >

> > >>> our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are

> now

> > >>> propagating in the name of astrology.

> > >>>

> > >>> On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus found

> by

> > >>> William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In continuity

> of

> > >>>

> > > this

> > >

> > >>> discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries of

> > >>>

> > > Pallas,

> > >

> > >>> Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered

Pluto

> > >>> planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt, In

> > >>>

> > > 2005,

> > >

> > >>> Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and

it

> > >>>

> > > was

> > >

> > >>> thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that

> none

> > >>>

> > > of

> > >

> > >>> these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India,

> > >>>

> > > because

> > >

> > >>> all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the

> name

> > >>>

> > > of

> > >

> > >>> forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> > >>>

> > >>> It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that

> any

> > >>> moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small

bodies

> > >>> around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third

> > >>>

> > > condition

> > >

> > >>> hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

> Jena

> > >>>

> > > etc.

> > >

> > >>> bodies could not be treated as planet and another category of

> > >>>

> > > Dwarf

> > >

> > >>> planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to

> > >>>

> > > accommodate

> > >

> > >>> all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf planet

> > >>>

> > > number

> > >

> > >>> 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight planets

> > >>> (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and

> > >>>

> > > Neptune).

> > >

> > >>> So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when

are

> > >>>

> > > you

> > >

> > >>> and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in

> > >>> Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the name

> of

> > >>> sages.

> > >>>

> > >>> I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am

> sure

> > >>> that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> > >>>

> > >>> Thanks,

> > >>>

> > >>> Sanat

> > >>> Sanatkumar_jain@

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

> > >>> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>> Dear Sanatkumar,

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance

Pluto

> > >>>>

> > > was

> > >

> > >>>> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a

planet

> > >>>>

> > > and

> > >

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>> only

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>> recently declassified from that status, before you question

> the

> > >>>> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the

> > >>>>

> > > principles,

> > >

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>> that

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new

> > >>>>

> > > methods

> > >

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>> astrological predictions.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> sanat2221 wrote:

> > >>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > >>>>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

some

> > >>>>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied

> in

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> depth

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed

like

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> this. So

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> whether

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

science

> > >>>>>

> > > due

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> to

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments

of

> > >>>>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> want

> > >>>>>

> > > to

> > >

> > >>>>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

us

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> examine

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> > >>>>>

> > > have

> > >

> > >>>>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > >>>>>

> > > standing

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> in

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> > >>>>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is a

> > >>>>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > >>>>>

> > > understand

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> the

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> > >>>>>

> > > if

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> you

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> call

> > >>>>>

> > > an

> > >

> > >>>>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> early

> > >>>>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > >>>>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> religious

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Moon,

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

> only

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> sages

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > >>>>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

to

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> predict

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> grabbing

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > >>>>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > >>>>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> donations

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> etc.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

is

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> still

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> everybody

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > >>>>>

> > > situation,

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> it

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> > >>>>>

> > > fate

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> fate of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> various

> > >>>>> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> sages

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> principles

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> percolated

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> > >>>>>

> > > learn

> > >

> > >>>>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > >>>>>

> > > were

> > >

> > >>>>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> Western

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> system.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> group

> > >>>>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

> due

> > >>>>>

> > > to

> > >

> > >>>>> their business considerations (these astrologers always try

> to

> > >>>>>

> > > fit

> > >

> > >>>>> past event very precisely within some astrological

principle

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> within a

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

faith

> > >>>>>

> > > etc.,

> > >

> > >>>>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> astrological

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > >>>>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

fluke)

> > >>>>>

> > > may

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> come

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > >>>>>

> > > self

> > >

> > >>>>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> > >>>>>

> > > other

> > >

> > >>>>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > >>>>>

> > > mislead,

> > >

> > >>>>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> find

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> that

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> (say

> > >>>>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > >>>>>

> > > astrology.

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> But

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

> the

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> level

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > >>>>> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure

> was

> > >>>>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > >>>>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > >>>>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> following

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> subpara).

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> > >>>>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > >>>>>

> > > stationary

> > >

> > >>>>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

> and

> > >>>>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> of

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> each

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> other) ?

> > >>>>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

demons

> > >>>>>

> > > over

> > >

> > >>>>> nector after sea-churning...........

> > >>>>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

(full,

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> quarter

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> seventh

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> house) ?

> > >>>>> Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> exalted

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> and

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> > >>>>>

> > > Aries

> > >

> > >>>>> sign) ?

> > >>>>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

> of

> > >>>>>

> > > the

> > >

> > >>>>> day is more in comparison to night......

> > >>>>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > >>>>>

> > > hub

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> > >>>>>

> > > Venus

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> (a

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> > >>>>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of

> > >>>>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > >>>>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> between

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> > >>>>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > >>>>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> structure

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> motion

> > >>>>>

> > > of

> > >

> > >>>>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > >>>>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> 180

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> deg.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> apart?

> > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > >>>>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > >>>>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> month..........

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

as

> to

> > >>>>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> > >>>>> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > >>>>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

of

> > >>>>> Universe.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > >>>>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

> sage

> > >>>>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

> the

> > >>>>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

in

> > >>>>>

> > > all

> > >

> > >>>>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

> any

> > >>>>>

> > > old

> > >

> > >>>>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

> is

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> beyond

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> > >>>>>

> > > Moon.

> > >

> > >>>>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > >>>>>

> > > are

> > >

> > >>>>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> astrology

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> correct

> > >>>>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> combination

> > >>>>>

> > > is

> > >

> > >>>>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > >>>>>

> > > and

> > >

> > >>>>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > >>>>>

> > > concept

> > >

> > >>>>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> > >>>>>

> > > view

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > >>>>>

> > > concept

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > >>>>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> astrology " Jyotish -

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > >>>>>

> > > contains

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> the

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

> the

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> basis

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> sages

> > >>>>>

> > > to

> > >

> > >>>>> formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> English

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > >>>>>

> > > can

> > >

> > >>>>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> > >>>>>

> > > face

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

know

> > >>>>>

> > > more

> > >

> > >>>>> about the book or description of various chapters then you

> may

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> send

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > >>>>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> produktID=1759836

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> produktID=1759836>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> 20kumar%

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> 20kumar%>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > >>>>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > >>>>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> > >>>>>

> > > nor

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> they

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > >>>>>

> > > presence

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

the

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> concept

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> mentioned in

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> within

> > >>>>>

> > > 14

> > >

> > >>>>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> But

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> nobody

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> when

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Sun,

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > >>>>>

> > > respectively

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> on

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

> and

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Ketu

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

> 03-

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> 1988 (

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > >>>>>

> > > eclipses

> > >

> > >>>>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

more

> > >>>>>

> > > then

> > >

> > >>>>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> 79.04

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> deg.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

> at

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> 76.49

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> > >>>>>

> > > 15.14

> > >

> > >>>>> deg. away).

> > >>>>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > >>>>>

> > > also

> > >

> > >>>>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred

> at

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> the

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

> was

> > >>>>>

> > > not

> > >

> > >>>>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

of

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> myth).

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > >>>>>

> > > Moon

> > >

> > >>>>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > >>>>>

> > > But

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> As

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> 1985

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> and 3-

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> solar

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > >>>>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full

solar

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> eclipses

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

> 166

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> degree

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> possible.

> > >>>>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> almanac.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Thus

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > >>>>>

> > > respectively.

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> All

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > >>>>>

> > > fundamental

> > >

> > >>>>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> want

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> then I

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> can give many more examples and very simple method of

> detecting

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> them.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

> > >>>>>

> > > but

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> in

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy

> +

> > >>>>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > >>>>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> played an

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

to

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> immense

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> appears to

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> agree

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> with the above observation after going through my original

> > >>>>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided

> as

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> was

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

> try

> > >>>>>

> > > to

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> do

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> some thing, because every thing will take place according

to

> > >>>>>

> > > pre-

> > >

> > >>>>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

modifying

> > >>>>>

> > > that

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> pre-

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> > >>>>>

> > > even

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> then

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> cascading

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> every

> > >>>>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > >>>>>

> > > pre-

> > >

> > >>>>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > >>>>>

> > > every

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Tom,

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> good

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> deed

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > >>>>>

> > > change.

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> You

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > >>>>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> never

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot

> be

> > >>>>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

> also

> > >>>>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> prewritten)

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> because

> > >>>>>

> > > in

> > >

> > >>>>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > >>>>>

> > > altered

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> but

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

> can

> > >>>>>

> > > be

> > >

> > >>>>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit

of

> > >>>>> planets?

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> assured

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> that

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> astronomy

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > >>>>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> correct.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

myth.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> Still if

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

The

> > >>>>>

> > > James

> > >

> > >>>>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize

> to

> > >>>>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail

> and

> > >>>>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > >>>>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > >>>>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used

> to

> > >>>>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> business

> > >>>>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

this

> > >>>>>

> > > sort

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> of

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

> > >>>>>

> > > regard

> > >

> > >>>>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > >>>>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > >>>>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> information

> > >>>>>

> > > of

> > >

> > >>>>> Universe, solar system.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> interaction on

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > >>>>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

> better

> > >>>>>

> > > to

> > >

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> know

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> falling

> > >>>>>

> > > in

> > >

> > >>>>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>> (Astrology Is

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>>> Damaging Society).

> > >>>>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> > >>>>> Gwalior

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

> creating

> > >>>>> problems to moderator

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanat,

 

I am sure you do not think that Surya siddhant is written after

Copernicus. If you are confusing the calculation of the degrees of the

grahas with reference to earth, called drikganita and which is

calculated by siddhanta, with Sun being proposed to be not at the

center of the Surya mandal, that is an unfortunate conclusion that you

are drawing.

 

If you treat the shape of an aeroplane wheel as modification of the

principle of wheel, you are free to say what you want about other

sciences too.

 

As to proving old principles wrong. Merely saying they are wrong does

not prove them to be wrong. Unfortunately you seem to think that

astrological knowledge is limited to Vishnu Purana and appear to be

reluctant to read other sources of astrological texts.

 

You have not yet replied to my original query as to why when the modern

scientists and astronomers whom you are so fond of could not even

devise a proper definition of what is a planet and could not even not

understand that Pluto is not a planet till recently. Since you

obviously think that modern astronomy is something better and different

than the siddhanta of Jyotish and since as you say the old principles

are proven wrong, it follows that the modern principles that you are

preaching must be right. Why then did these principles that are so

modern fail to identify whether an astral body is a planet or not for

so long?

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

sanat2221 wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

Thanks for rejoinder,

I will try to answer your points

 

>>>>>>>>science is modern science and is

development of "Primitive

knowledge" as you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

Primitive knowledge.<<<<<<<<

 

Let me clear some confusion in understanding or explanation.

Knowledge is a continuous process. And every knowledge is modern so

long it is serving the purpose and some new concept is not developed.

But if in the era of modern knowledge (not 21st century but even in

past) if some one try to push that old concept or some principles

formulated on that old concept which have been proven wrong then it

is primitive knowledge and we must come out from it.

 

Let me further clear. Principle of Archemidies about the density

though formulated before 200 BC but no body will say that it is

primitive. Because nothing new have been devised. But if you even

want to purchase a 386 or AT/XT computer then every body will say it

is old and it will not be available though it is mearly 10 years old.

Like wise the concept of every religion or society was that Earth is

stationary, though there may be various concept (including the

concept of Ptolemy who was of the view that Earth is sphere) but

only the concept of stationary Earth was acceptable beyond doubt.

Concept of Indian sages was that Sun is nearer (1lakh yojan above or

14.4 Lakh km above the Earth) and Moon is above the Sun,

Constellation was above the Moon and below the Mercury and so on ………

(refer Vishnu Puran written by sage Parashar who was the founder of

astrological principles). In this situation how Parashar could have

developed the astrological principles (predictive) which may be based

on the modern concept of solar system, which have been proudly

included in almost every astrological book in such a way so that

general public may think that astrology is scientific. So it is

astrologers who are befooling general public and some interested

persons take it as hobby and instead of studying the truth behind

it, simply lost in the forest of prediction where they never find a

single true prediction except some fluke. Businessmen astrologer

are so cunning that they take shelter behind sage or science

whichever suits to them.

 

>>>>>>>It appears you think that solar system was

discovered by

Copernicus. If this is your view, it maybe better that you read more

Jyotish books on

siddhanta and then advance your theories.<<<<<<<

 

I will like to know about some siddhant which have been accepted

before Copernicus. Please do not forget to intimate me so that I may

ask Education deptt. to change the chapters accordingly.

 

>>>>>Your assumption about how the sages could have

thought about a

certain concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

one.<<<<<<<<

 

Every concept either it may subsequently be right or wrong can never

be accepted without some logic. Hence I am right in asking as to how

a principle was devised. If you want to know as to how it was devised

within the framework of the then knowledge then I have given some

short hints after every question or you read my book or you give

some logical answer instead of beating the bush on the basis of your

faith, igonorence and lack of inquisitiveness. Sorrry I do not want

to hurt your feelings about the primitive concept. But it is your

right to think in any way either by learning/ reading or by

believing. But I will say what is the harm in digging any knowledge.

 

>>>>>>>>>am sure you are not aware that

wheel is termed as one of the

greatest invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying

that you can not reinvent the wheel. it appe<<<<<<<

I have said

………and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because that primitive

wheel has not yet been changed and still used by Aadiwasis whereas

wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and then………..

that "we must use that wheel……" here that means which one was

created by ancient people, either it may be bamboo piece or it may

be like a solid wheel or wheel used in bullock cart but none of these

wheels can be used in Aeroplane, on the plea that wheel of bullock

cart was used by our sages. Thus If sages have the view of fixed

Earth, there is no harm because it was the then knowledge which was

subsequently modified to solar system after thousands of years.

 

But still answer to my first blog is still pending. It is your right

that you may not answer because actually it is not your fault as you

have not devised the principles but it is correct that you have never

asked such questions in the wind of prediction. But why don't you

take this new venture to find the truth and serving the people in

that way.

 

Thanks for your valuable comments.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Sanat,

>

> I do not understand why a changeable definition of basic

parameters

of a

> science is modern science and is development of "Primitive

knowledge" as

> you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are Primitive

knowledge.

>

> It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

Copernicus. If

> this is your view, it maybe better that you read more Jyotish

books

on

> siddhanta and then advance your theories.

>

> Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

certain

> concept is your own view and not necessarily the right one.

>

> I do not know your source of information on wheel or its structure

 

but

> am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of the

greatest

> invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying that you

 

can

> not reinvent the wheel. it appears you do not to that

view and

> apply engineering principles in a manner not know to engineers,

when you

> talk about wheels.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> sanat2221 wrote:

> > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering

the

> > many questions raised so far.

> >

> > You said

> >

> >>>>>>> ......However if the sages have not

changed their views of

what

> >>>>>>>

> > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years,

are to

be

> > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

science.

> > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating

the

> > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific

knowledge

or

> > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day.

But

if

> > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest

with

> > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

 

> > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or

under-

> > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was

best

with

> > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept.

In

> > other words I may say that the person who has devised the

wheel

or

> > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

Because he

> > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st

century

> > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent

person

(he

> > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge

was

> > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane

because

> > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used

by

> > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every

now

and

> > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations

too

had

> > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in

the

> > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

 

realize

> > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and

primitive

> > with reference to modern knowledge.

> >

> >

> >

> >>>>>>>> but there is a difference in the

way planet is defined by

> >>>>>>>>

> > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is

defined by

the

> > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish.

<<<<<<<<<

> > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable

thing

is

> > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties.

 

Then

> > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think

otherwise

in

> > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even

then

> > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they

 

move

> > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun

is

a

> > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

 

> > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is

sphere

or

> > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of

our

sages

> > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and

best

> > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own

manner

of

> > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

 

> > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of

human

> > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system.

But he

was

> > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has

been

> > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he

offered

> > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

 

used to

> > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in

the

> > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the

Galileo,

> > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

 

Bible.

> > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the

death.

> > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages

and

> > religion.

> >

> > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is

only

> > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of

development

> > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not

 

have

> > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge

of

21st

> > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of

 

40th

> > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should

not

> > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they

were

not

> > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of

Greek,

> > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn

any

> > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the

principle of

> > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny

with

the

> > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every

body

> > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

 

life on

> > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and

so

on. In

> > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

(troubles

> > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so

on)

> > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King

and

> > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to

formulate

some

> > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted

the

> > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus

some

> > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

known in

> > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was

not

> > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in

Manusmriti

> > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be

expelled

> > from the gathering of learned.

> >

> >

> >>>>>>>> Since you assume the two to be

identical, not much purpose

> >>>>>>>>

> > will be served in answering your

blog<<<<<<<

> > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages

 

were

> > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to

see,

then

> > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this.

At

the

> > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it

was

> > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of

solar

> > system so they may know which is planet and which is star.

But

it

> > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental

process.

> >

> > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains

left

in

> > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to

continue or

not

> > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to

give

reply

> > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book).

But

I

> > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

question.

> > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away

 

from

> > direct discussion.

> >

> > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain

> > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > 3-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

> > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> >> Dear Sanat,

> >>

> >> It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the

modern day

> >> scientists that you adore so much, change the definition

of what

in

> >> their view should be termed a planet, their views are to

be

taken

> >>

> > as

> >

> >> sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their

views of

> >>

> > what

> >

> >> should be the definition of graha, for thousands of

years, are

to

> >>

> > be

> >

> >> called primitive.

> >>

> >> I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is

a

> >>

> > difference in

> >

> >> the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the

manner

in

> >>

> > which

> >

> >> a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation

of

Jyotish.

> >> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much

purpose will

be

> >> served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

 

knowledge

> >>

> > of

> >

> >> astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> >>

> >> Chandrashekhar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> sanat2221 wrote:

> >>

> >>> Dear Chandrashekhar.

> >>> Thanks for your mail.

> >>> Though you have not replied the points raised in my

blog. But

you

> >>> raised question about Pluto.

> >>> I think either you are not aware with the

circumstances as to

why

> >>>

> > it

> >

> >>> was treated as planet and why removed from the group

or you are

> >>> checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short

answer to

your

> >>> question.

> >>>

> >>> It was concept in the Primitive age that every

movable body

among

> >>>

> > the

> >

> >>> fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then

knowledge and

> >>> experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter

and Saturn

> >>>

> > were

> >

> >>> treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated

as

planets

> >>>

> > by

> >

> >>> our sages and not a star or satellite, which

astrologers are

now

> >>> propagating in the name of astrology.

> >>>

> >>> On the basis of this definition an orbiting body

Uranus found

by

> >>> William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In

continuity

of

> >>>

> > this

> >

> >>> discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by

discoveries of

> >>>

> > Pallas,

> >

> >>> Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh

discovered Pluto

> >>> planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper

belt, In

> >>>

> > 2005,

> >

> >>> Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then

Pluto and it

> >>>

> > was

> >

> >>> thought to have a proper definition of planet.

Remember that

none

> >>>

> > of

> >

> >>> these planets were discovered by the astrologers of

India,

> >>>

> > because

> >

> >>> all of them were busy in befooling the general public

in the

name

> >>>

> > of

> >

> >>> forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> >>>

> >>> It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000

astronomers that

any

> >>> moving body will be planet if it has cleared other

small bodies

> >>> around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this

third

> >>>

> > condition

> >

> >>> hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar,

Sedna,

Jena

> >>>

> > etc.

> >

> >>> bodies could not be treated as planet and another

category of

> >>>

> > Dwarf

> >

> >>> planet other then star, planet, satellite was created

to

> >>>

> > accommodate

> >

> >>> all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as

Dwarf planet

> >>>

> > number

> >

> >>> 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight

planets

> >>> (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn,

Uranus, and

> >>>

> > Neptune).

> >

> >>> So will you please come forward and intimate me as to

when are

> >>>

> > you

> >

> >>> and other astrologers are going to use Uranus &

Neptune in

> >>> Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in

the name

of

> >>> sages.

> >>>

> >>> I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto.

Now I am

sure

> >>> that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> >>>

> >>> Thanks,

> >>>

> >>> Sanat

> >>> Sanatkumar_jain@

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

> >>> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> Dear Sanatkumar,

> >>>>

> >>>> Would you throw some light on why in the first

instance Pluto

> >>>>

> > was

> >

> >>>> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers

as a planet

> >>>>

> > and

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> only

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> recently declassified from that status, before

you question

the

> >>>> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave

the

> >>>>

> > principles,

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> are being used by even those who claim to have

invented new

> >>>>

> > methods

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> astrological predictions.

> >>>>

> >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> sanat2221 wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >>>>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of

sticking to some

> >>>>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you

have not studied

in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> depth

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> but you only have faith, because you have

been informed like

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> this. So

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> come out and think with open mind and decide

yourself as to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> whether

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> astrology is scientific or is being given

coverup of science

> >>>>>

> > due

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt

the sentiments of

> >>>>> astrologers or who are in support of

astrology, but I only

want

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> emphasise that if you think that it is a

science then let us

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> examine

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> it and then there will be no question of

hurting, because you

> >>>>>

> > have

> >

> >>>>> not formulated the principles. But

unfortunately you are

> >>>>>

> > standing

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith

(which has been

> >>>>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge

that astrology is a

> >>>>> science without knowing the story of other

side. I can

> >>>>>

> > understand

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> problem of astrologer that they will loose

their business but

> >>>>>

> > if

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> you

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> are a client then you must have right to know

the truth or

call

> >>>>>

> > an

> >

> >>>>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> At the time of formulating the astrological

principles in

early

> >>>>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every

living being has

> >>>>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing

cannot move. This

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> religious

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> philosophy leads sages to classify all

so-called planet (Sun,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Moon,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

In those days

only

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> sages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> had social sanction to study religious

scriptures. Thus after

> >>>>> prolonged observation of the sky they

developed the skill to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> predict

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result

of so-called

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> grabbing

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets

Rahu and Ketu.

> >>>>> They were also able to predict the timing of

eclipse and its

> >>>>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way

to offer

donations

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> etc.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu

and Ketu, which is

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> still

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> being followed. It was also religious concept

that fate of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> everybody

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus

in this

> >>>>>

> > situation,

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> it

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able

to predict the

> >>>>>

> > fate

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could

not predict the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> fate of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to

formulate

various

> >>>>> astrological principles on the basis of the

then knowledge of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> sages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> based on scriptures and their celestial

observation. These

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> principles

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Procedure adopted to formulate these

principles was never

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> percolated

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and

hard barrier to

> >>>>>

> > learn

> >

> >>>>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently

these principles

> >>>>>

> > were

> >

> >>>>> spread to other civilisation and later on

developed as

Western

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> system.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> What is happening nowadays that there are two

groups. One

group

> >>>>> belongs to astrologers who always try to

support astrology

due

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> their business considerations (these

astrologers always try

to

> >>>>>

> > fit

> >

> >>>>> past event very precisely within some

astrological principle

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> within a

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse

etc.) and faith

> >>>>>

> > etc.,

> >

> >>>>> but they are unable to predict any future

event. Because

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrological

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> principles lead to diverse predictions and

that too diabolical

> >>>>> opposite to each other. If by chance a

prediction (in fluke)

> >>>>>

> > may

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> come

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> true then they start to harp on the same

prediction and start

> >>>>>

> > self

> >

> >>>>> praising instead of applying the same

socalled principle on

> >>>>>

> > other

> >

> >>>>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus

astrologer can only

> >>>>>

> > mislead,

> >

> >>>>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and

so on. You can

find

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> only this is going on in every forum),

whereas other group

(say

> >>>>> scientist) try to raise some logical

questions against

> >>>>>

> > astrology.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> But

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> none of them have ever tried to investigate

as to what was

the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> level

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of information of sages about the Universe,

who developed

> >>>>> astrological principles in primitive age and

what procedure

was

> >>>>> adopted to formulate various principles

relating to Lordship,

> >>>>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated,

Aspect, Vinshottary

> >>>>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of

principles then

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> following

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation

is given in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> subpara).

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve

signs among seven

> >>>>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio

etc.) ?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just

above the

> >>>>>

> > stationary

> >

> >>>>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so

on..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that

there is enmity

and

> >>>>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and

Saturn are enemy

of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> each

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> other) ?

> >>>>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between

deities and demons

> >>>>>

> > over

> >

> >>>>> nector after sea-churning...........

> >>>>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide

various aspect (full,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> quarter

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have

full aspect on

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> seventh

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> house) ?

> >>>>> Based on the position of army in the battle

field...........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that

planets are

exalted

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> and

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted

at 10 deg. of

> >>>>>

> > Aries

> >

> >>>>> sign) ?

> >>>>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun,

when duration

of

> >>>>>

> > the

> >

> >>>>> day is more in comparison to night......

> >>>>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that

most powerful and

> >>>>>

> > hub

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary

dasha whereas

> >>>>>

> > Venus

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> (a

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> >>>>> Based on two triangles derived after working

out the effect of

> >>>>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> >>>>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> between

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha

?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order

of days of a week

> >>>>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> >>>>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat =

pitcher) in the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> structure

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is

far away.....

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed

retrograde

motion

> >>>>>

> > of

> >

> >>>>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> >>>>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that

Rahu, Ketu are

180

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deg.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> apart?

> >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> >>>>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide

timings of eclipse ?

> >>>>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed

constellation

month..........

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a

final question as

to

> >>>>> whether present form of astrology is correct?

If some one gave

> >>>>> answers to these questions then he will

realise that entire

> >>>>> astrological principles are totally based on

wrong concept of

> >>>>> Universe.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Everybody may agree that every research is

based on the then

> >>>>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology

was developed by

sage

> >>>>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed

that Earth is in

the

> >>>>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is

also believed in

> >>>>>

> > all

> >

> >>>>> religions). Beside this it was also believed

(you may read

any

> >>>>>

> > old

> >

> >>>>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the

Earth, whereas Moon

is

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> beyond

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Sun. All constellations are situated in

between Mercury and

> >>>>>

> > Moon.

> >

> >>>>> You may be surprised to know that all

astrological principles

> >>>>>

> > are

> >

> >>>>> actually fabricated around this concept. I

my-self studying

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrology

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> since last 35 years and developed softwares

to conclude

correct

> >>>>> prediction. But if it is true at one time

then same

combination

> >>>>>

> > is

> >

> >>>>> not true in other case. It leads me to think

afresh logically

> >>>>>

> > and

> >

> >>>>> systematically over this subject and I find

that Primitive

> >>>>>

> > concept

> >

> >>>>> (when astrology was developed) requires full

overhauling in

> >>>>>

> > view

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> modern scientific astronomy, according to

which primitive

> >>>>>

> > concept

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally

changed.

> >>>>> After lot of research I wrote an original

book on

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astrology "Jyotish -

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages).

This book

> >>>>>

> > contains

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these

principles on

the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> basis

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of the then knowledge about the Universe,

which leads our

sages

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>> formulate these principles. This book was

also published in

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> English

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> with the title "Astrology a science or myth"

(450 pages). You

> >>>>>

> > can

> >

> >>>>> realize that this is revolutionary book and

will change the

> >>>>>

> > face

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> predictive astrology in due course. If you

interested to know

> >>>>>

> > more

> >

> >>>>> about the book or description of various

chapters then you

may

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> send

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> email to me. The book is being marketed in

USA /UK etc.

> >>>>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> produktID=1759836

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 20kumar%

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 20kumar%>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

 

> >>>>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> >>>>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >>>>>

> >>>>> At that time our sages were neither aware of

Uranus, Neptune

> >>>>>

> > nor

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> they

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses

occurred due to

> >>>>>

> > presence

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they

have developed the

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> concept

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of

3'11". It was

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> mentioned in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when

Rahu/Ketu came

within

> >>>>>

> > 14

> >

> >>>>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi

(full Moon).

But

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> nobody

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> will be able to answer that why there was no

lunar eclipse

when

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Sun,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43

degree

> >>>>>

> > respectively

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> on

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or

when Sun, Moon

and

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Ketu

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree

respectively on 03-

03-

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 1988 (

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I

find that Solar

> >>>>>

> > eclipses

> >

> >>>>> occurred even when difference between Moon

and Rahu was more

> >>>>>

> > then

> >

> >>>>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas

Rahu was at

79.04

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deg.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun

and Moon were

at

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> 76.49

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on

02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> >>>>>

> > 15.14

> >

> >>>>> deg. away).

> >>>>> To give a modern scientific colour to the

astrology, you will

> >>>>>

> > also

> >

> >>>>> find in many modern astrological books that

eclipse occurred

at

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and

Moon (though it

was

> >>>>>

> > not

> >

> >>>>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created

on the basis of

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> myth).

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full

solar eclipse, when

> >>>>>

> > Moon

> >

> >>>>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu

must also be there.

> >>>>>

> > But

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> As

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177

degree on 12-11-

1985

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> and 3-

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when

there were full

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> solar

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206

and 166 degree

> >>>>> respectively. You will agree that when there

were full solar

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> eclipses

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must

be at 206 and

166

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> degree

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> respectively, because only then full solar

eclipse may

possible.

> >>>>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177

degrees in

almanac.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Thus

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11

degrees

> >>>>>

> > respectively.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> All

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> horoscopes are defective in this light and

due to this

> >>>>>

> > fundamental

> >

> >>>>> positional variation, prediction is also

effected. If you

want

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> then I

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> can give many more examples and very simple

method of

detecting

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> them.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> I fully support that astrology (predictive)

is not a science

> >>>>>

> > but

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> in

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> primitive age predictive astrology was a

mixture of astronomy

+

> >>>>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a

science, psychology

> >>>>> (recently discovered and it was not known in

primitive age)

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> played an

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> important role in handling a person by the

astrologer due to

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> immense

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence

predictive astrology

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> appears to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> be correct due to combined effect of all

three. You will also

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> agree

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> with the above observation after going

through my original

> >>>>> revolutionary research. Because if everything

is pre-decided

as

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> was

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> contention of sages then why we may take

pains, why we may

try

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> do

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> some thing, because every thing will take

place according to

> >>>>>

> > pre-

> >

> >>>>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no

question of modifying

> >>>>>

> > that

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> pre-

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> written destiny, because if we try to change

only our fate,

> >>>>>

> > even

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> then

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> all attached happening will automatically

change creating a

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> cascading

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> effect, which in turn will change the

pre-written fate of

every

> >>>>> person. In another case, if destiny is not

pre-written or say

> >>>>>

> > pre-

> >

> >>>>> defined than it is not possible to detect it.

Because when

> >>>>>

> > every

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Tom,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due

to worship,

good

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> deed

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue

remain under

> >>>>>

> > change.

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> You

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> will agree that astrology is totally based on

mathematical

> >>>>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit

is fixed and can

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> never

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> and never be altered. Now when transit or

birth chart cannot

be

> >>>>> altered it means result of calculation or say

prediction is

also

> >>>>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny

(if it is ever

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> prewritten)

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> by adopting some means like offering, ring,

vastu etc.

because

> >>>>>

> > in

> >

> >>>>> that case, if you like to say, then future

events will be

> >>>>>

> > altered

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> but

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> how a calculation of planetary transit or

linked prediction

can

> >>>>>

> > be

> >

> >>>>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or

fixed transit of

> >>>>> planets?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Those who think that astrology is a science

may be rest

assured

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> that

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> actually predictive astrology is not a

science at all. Only

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> astronomy

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200

years) were used

> >>>>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction

and it appears

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> correct.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and

astrology is a myth.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> Still if

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't

you contact The

> >>>>>

> > James

> >

> >>>>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US

$1000000 prize

to

> >>>>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology

works. His e-mail

and

> >>>>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org>

and

> >>>>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org>

Because modern

> >>>>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper

etc. are being used

to

> >>>>> spread this myth in the cover up of science

with vested

business

> >>>>> interest. Hence it requires a logical

approach to fight this

> >>>>>

> > sort

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> of

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific

information in this

> >>>>>

> > regard

> >

> >>>>> and readers of the book are fully convinced

that astrology

> >>>>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure

adopted to formulate

> >>>>> principles was neither logical nor based on

correct

information

> >>>>>

> > of

> >

> >>>>> Universe, solar system.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I will like to have your critical comments

for further

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> interaction on

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> >>>>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com>

.. It would be

better

> >>>>>

> > to

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> know

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind

it before

falling

> >>>>>

> > in

> >

> >>>>> the trap and come forward to join hands

because of AIDS

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>> (Astrology Is

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>> Damaging Society).

> >>>>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> >>>>> Gwalior

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Reader may directly write to me on my email

instead of

creating

> >>>>> problems to moderator

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Kiran Ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your msg regarding blind chart reading.

>>>>>>>>>Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I

request all

to participate.<<<<<<<<<<

Yes you can go ahead with following four questions (again quoting

the para) or even you can intimate any principle or combination of

principles which you think is right.

 

If principles are correct then can you just provide any foolproof

astrological principle by which you can decide about (very ordinary

questions)

 

1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

2 When he / she will be married.

3 When he / she will be father / mother

4 When he / she will die.

 

Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive

answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and

secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

governed and changed.

 

Thanks

Yours

 

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

(reader may write to me directly on my email.)

9-12-2007

Re: Astrology a science or myth

Posted by: " kiran.rama " kiran.rama kiran.rama

Tue Dec 4, 2007 9:54 am (PST)

Dear Sanatji,

 

There are many astrologers who can predict correctly applying astro

principles to the charts.

 

Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I request all

to participate.

 

Maybe that will convince Sanatji -

Regards

Kiran

 

 

 

 

 

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

>

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in

depth

> > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like

this. So

> > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

whether

> > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due

to

> > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want

to

> > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

examine

> > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you

have

> > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing

in

> > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand

the

> > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if

you

> > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call

an

> > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >

> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

religious

> > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

Moon,

> > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only

sages

> > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

predict

> > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

grabbing

> > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations

etc.

> > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is

still

> > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

everybody

> > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation,

it

> > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate

of

> > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the

fate of

> > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

sages

> > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

principles

> > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >

> > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

percolated

> > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles

were

> > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

system.

> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to

fit

> > past event very precisely within some astrological principle

within a

> > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

etc.,

> > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

astrological

> > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may

come

> > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

self

> > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

mislead,

> > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find

that

> > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology.

But

> > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

level

> > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

following

> > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

subpara).

> >

> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> >

> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

> >

> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of

each

> > other) ?

> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> > nector after sea-churning………..

> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

quarter

> > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

seventh

> > house) ?

> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

> >

> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted

and

> > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> > sign) ?

> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of

the

> > day is more in comparison to night……

> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub

of

> > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus

(a

> > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

between

> > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> >

> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

> >

> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

structure

> > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

> >

> > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180

deg.

> > apart?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

> >

> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> > Universe.

> >

> > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any

old

> > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

beyond

> > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

astrology

> > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination

is

> > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

concept

> > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view

of

> > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept

of

> > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

astrology " Jyotish -

> > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains

the

> > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the

basis

> > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages

to

> > formulate these principles. This book was also published in

English

> > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face

of

> > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know

more

> > about the book or description of various chapters then you may

send

> > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836

> >

> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

20kumar%

> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >

> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >

> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor

they

> > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence

of

> > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

concept

> > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

mentioned in

> > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within

14

> > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But

nobody

> > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when

Sun,

> > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively

on

> > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and

Ketu

> > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-

1988 (

> > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

eclipses

> > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04

deg.

> > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

76.49

> > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

15.14

> > deg. away).

> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will

also

> > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at

the

> > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was

not

> > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

myth).

> > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when

Moon

> > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But

As

> > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985

and 3-

> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full

solar

> > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

eclipses

> > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

degree

> > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac.

Thus

> > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively.

All

> > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

fundamental

> > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want

then I

> > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

them.

> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but

in

> > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

played an

> > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

immense

> > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

appears to

> > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also

agree

> > with the above observation after going through my original

> > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as

was

> > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to

do

> > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that

pre-

> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even

then

> > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

cascading

> > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every

Tom,

> > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good

deed

> > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change.

You

> > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can

never

> > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

prewritten)

> > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered

but

> > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can

be

> > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> > planets?

> >

> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured

that

> > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

astronomy

> > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

correct.

> > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

Still if

> > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

James

> > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort

of

> > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

regard

> > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information

of

> > Universe, solar system.

> >

> > I will like to have your critical comments for further

interaction on

> > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know

> > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling

in

> > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

(Astrology Is

> > Damaging Society).

> > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > Gwalior

> >

> > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> > problems to moderator

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nair,

Thanks for your mail.

 

>>>>>>>i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

students

,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly <<<<<<

 

It is always your right not to answer. But it is my duty to answer

so long you are writing to me and raising some points. How you can

say that I have not studied astrology. You have not gone through my

first mail wherein I clearly mentioned that I have studied

astrology for more then 35 years.

 

>>>>>>>>>or like ppl selling

mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the scinces

<<<<<<<

 

I am neither selling mother country nor I am making money by

befooling general public in the name of Vedic astrology where as

Ved has nothing to do with the predictive astrology. So you (not

particularly you I mean astrologer) are selling the countries

image in the name of Ved.

 

 

>>>>>>1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not

human

possible .<<<<<<<

So you are admitting that without going through the books

astrlogeres are predicting, what a funny excuse.

 

>>>>>>>u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological

books<<<<<<<

Even Surya sidhant was written by Greeks and it was even accepted

by Varahmihir who included this scripture in his panchsidhant. He

wrote that though yavan are mlecha (below caste) even they are

worshiped like sages due to their knowledge of astrology. Even sign

(rasshi) was also the creation of greeks.

 

>>>>>>>>parashara is not one rishi its a title ,<<<<<<<<<

If you are so poor in this knowledge then what I can do.

 

>>>>>>>again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or 10th

century bhaskara ,this a

continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be destroyes

rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in that

century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of another

5000 years to reach to that extent .<<<<<<<<

My answer was against your earlier statement that

>>>>>atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where it

says its

gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force

called

parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the eclipses

and

its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

moon .<<<<<<<<

So are you saying that Aryabhatta or Bhaskarchary are famous due

to repeating the same thing which is written by sages. No, Their

contention was against the then concept on the basis of their

findings but it was not accepted because it was against the

religious concept. If you are poor in religious concept then I am

sorry. Yes it is a continuous stream of development of knowledge

that's why I am asking you to know the level of knowledge when

astrological principle were formulated and for this you have to read

the then concept which is well mentioned in Ved and Puran.

 

 

>>>>>>>Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he

himself

says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so do u

think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .<<<<<<<

No, I will not say so but I will say that we have to find the level

of knowledge which was their in 16th century and if book has some

principles based on such concept which have been modified after 16th

century, due to scientific discoveries then the content of the book

will definitely be under question.

 

 

>>>>>>,u say as if science means some solid rock

without change .<<<<<<<

No I have never said so. Rather you are pushing the principle based

on primitive concept of universe like solid rock.

 

 

>>>>>>>>Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent

me ur book because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i

dnt want to

part it with u .<<<<

Not answering is your right. But I am not going to sent you the

book. If you want then you have to buy it. Sorry.

 

>>>>>same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and some

fellow

astrologers challenge in out own way .<<<<<<

 

You can write to them. I have already provided you address.

 

Thanks,

Yours,

sanat

sanatkumar_jain

9-12-2007

 

 

Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala

astro_tellerkerala

Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

 

 

hare ramakrishna,

 

dear sanat ji ,

 

i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading students

,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like ppl selling

mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the scinces and

1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not human

possible .

 

u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

 

parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar jain is not

original sant kumara

 

we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got astrology

from

english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or rishis or

commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

 

again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a astronomer ,but do

u

thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century bhaskara ,this a

continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be destroyes

rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in that

century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of another

5000 years to reach to that extent .

 

same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or bhaskara was a

flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i will not

say

10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

 

Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he himself

says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so do u

think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

 

all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some solid rock

without change .

 

astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or climate in

planets ??

 

what we use in predictive astrology .

 

Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent me ur book

because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt want to

part it with u .

 

same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and some

fellow

astrologers challenge in out own way .

 

so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl of equal

status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u can

individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me is its

not

my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

 

if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

 

regrds sunil nair

 

i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic of

scientifc enquiry .

 

he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is sweet

unless he is not ready to take it .

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> Dear Nair,

> Thanks for your mail.

> I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Hare ramakrishna ,

>

> dear sanat kumar ji .

>

>

>

> even thou this mail is adressed to respected chandra ji i would

like

> to answer ur concerns .

>

> Astrology is not a science which can be proved in table top like a

> laboratory science and its based on anubhava and anumana (means

> experience and observations) and its a body of knowledge .what u

want to

> prove -the astro literatue is so wast and no body with 40 life time

> cannot realy master it and with so many calamities and wars it has

> destroyed many guruparamparas and some logics behind it .If u

collect

> all shokas may be one billion slokas may be in astro with 100s of

> systems .we dont get all this knowledge from mesopetomia or greeks

> >instead of reading western his --stroeys u pls go ur self and try

to

> find at least one classics from any of this place s dealing in astro

>

> U hav not done it where as i hav interacted with many scholars with

many

> countries and I know what is their opinions.

>

> First of all pls remove ur concern abt planets and grahas .

>

> Rishis used all 9 planets as grahas not planets ,its the in ability

of

> english laungage .

>

> Graha means which can capture u ,or influence u ,remembr the word

grahan

> .in surya grahan or chandra grahan .

>

> again in any amount new planets being discovered ( dis--covered

means

> removing cover only means it was there b4 and not an invention) is

not a

> worry for hindu astrologers as varahamihira clearly mentioned

grahanam

> sata kodi ---------(means planets are may be 100s of crores in this

> universe and which ever come in ecliptical path of earths and

influence

> us are 7 tara grahas and 2 chaya grahas ( means a smoke and has no

mass

> ) ,tho veda vyasa was describing abt indra ,varuna ,rudra

(neptune ,puto

> ,uranus) in Mahabharath wars time and their rasi positions and

also he

> was describing some comet also appeared .

>

> So u without understanding this basics written a book and asking us

to

> prove what ???

>

> first u learn the subjuct ,dont parrot any randi or mandi and

withdraw

> ur book and offer appologies .

>

> i repeat astrology is used for predicting ,not proving the speed or

> physical properties of any planets .That we r least bothered as its

not

> our domain .Even late director of indian weather forcast agency sri

> Pisharody i know what was his opion abt brihat samhita of

varahamihira

> in predicting weather and natural calamities .If u want his

lectures are

> available with indian sastra congress,if u can try u may get it .He

was

> also a very learned man in his subjuct and born in a vedic family of

> kerala astrologers .means he was a sceintist.

>

> But dont ask me to predict any weather forcast as astro has been

devided

> as ganita (astronomy ) golasastra and then only

natal ,national,prashna

> horoscopies .So try to understand that differrence also .

>

> Now natal charts are more seen by any astrologers as no one

including

> ruling parities or ministers r not worry abt what will happen to

nation

> this year .

>

> for ur kind information one astrologer who is working in madras

weather

> burea has successfully predicted various Tsunamies with may be 20

or 30

> minits difference and also for coming days and i think that is even

> available in net also .And he submited a report to govt of india

and his

> superiors also

>

> and if his report is approved ,then there is no scope for kick

backs and

> commissions .

>

> as a 100 crore rs /- equipment may predict Tsunami at 500KM/hr

means if

> its coming from indonesia ,u can work out how

>

> many hours a government will get to evacuvate the victims .But

> equipments are ordered and also installed .

>

> I think i answered some of ur main questions .Next time read arya

> bhatiyam by aryabhatta and bhaskariyam by bhaskaracharya and also

> varahmihira and pls come with that knowledge otherwise i may opt to

not

> to reply u .And if cannot read and wants us to answer then i hav

nothing

> to say . []

>

>

>

> regrds sunil nair .

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering the

> > many questions raised so far.

> >

> > You said

> > >>>>>>……However if the sages have not changed their views of what

> > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are to

be

> > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

science.

> > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating the

> > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific knowledge

or

> > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day. But

if

> > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest with

> > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

> > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or under-

> > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best

with

> > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept. In

> > other words I may say that the person who has devised the wheel or

> > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

Because he

> > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st century

> > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent person

(he

> > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge was

> > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because

> > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used by

> > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now

and

> > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations too

had

> > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in the

> > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

realize

> > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and primitive

> > with reference to modern knowledge.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>>but there is a difference in the way planet is defined by

> > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is defined by

the

> > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<

> > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable thing is

> > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties. Then

> > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think otherwise

in

> > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even then

> > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they move

> > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun is a

> > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

> > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is sphere

or

> > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our

sages

> > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and best

> > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner of

> > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

> > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of human

> > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system. But he

was

> > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has been

> > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he offered

> > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

used to

> > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in the

> > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the Galileo,

> > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

Bible.

> > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the death.

> > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages and

> > religion.

> >

> > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is only

> > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of development

> > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not have

> > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of

21st

> > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of 40th

> > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should not

> > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they were

not

> > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of Greek,

> > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn any

> > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the principle of

> > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with the

> > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every body

> > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

life on

> > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so

on. In

> > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

(troubles

> > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so on)

> > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King and

> > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to formulate

some

> > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the

> > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus some

> > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

known in

> > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not

> > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in Manusmriti

> > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be expelled

> > from the gathering of learned.

> >

> > >>>>>>>Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose

> > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<

> > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages were

> > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to see,

then

> > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this. At

the

> > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it was

> > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of solar

> > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But it

> > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental process.

> >

> > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains left

in

> > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to continue or

not

> > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give

reply

> > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book). But

I

> > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

question.

> > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away from

> > direct discussion.

> >

> > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > 3-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

> > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanat,

> > >

> > > It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern day

> > > scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of

what in

> > > their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be

taken

> > as

> > > sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their views of

> > what

> > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years, are

to

> > be

> > > called primitive.

> > >

> > > I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a

> > difference in

> > > the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the manner

in

> > which

> > > a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of

Jyotish.

> > > Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose will

be

> > > served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

knowledge

> > of

> > > astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > sanat2221 wrote:

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar.

> > > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > > Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog. But

you

> > > > raised question about Pluto.

> > > > I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as to

why

> > it

> > > > was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you

are

> > > > checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to

your

> > > > question.

> > > >

> > > > It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body

among

> > the

> > > > fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge and

> > > > experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn

> > were

> > > > treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as

planets

> > by

> > > > our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are

now

> > > > propagating in the name of astrology.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus found

by

> > > > William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In continuity

of

> > this

> > > > discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries of

> > Pallas,

> > > > Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered

Pluto

> > > > planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt, In

> > 2005,

> > > > Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and it

> > was

> > > > thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that

none

> > of

> > > > these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India,

> > because

> > > > all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the

name

> > of

> > > > forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> > > >

> > > > It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that

any

> > > > moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small

bodies

> > > > around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third

> > condition

> > > > hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

Jena

> > etc.

> > > > bodies could not be treated as planet and another category of

> > Dwarf

> > > > planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to

> > accommodate

> > > > all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf planet

> > number

> > > > 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight planets

> > > > (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and

> > Neptune).

> > > > So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when are

> > you

> > > > and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in

> > > > Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the name

of

> > > > sages.

> > > >

> > > > I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am

sure

> > > > that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sanat

> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Dear Sanatkumar,

> > > >>

> > > >> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance Pluto

> > was

> > > >> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a planet

> > and

> > > >>

> > > > only

> > > >

> > > >> recently declassified from that status, before you question

the

> > > >> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the

> > principles,

> > > >>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new

> > methods

> > > >>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >> astrological predictions.

> > > >>

> > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > >>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

some

> > > >>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied in

> > > >>>

> > > > depth

> > > >

> > > >>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like

> > > >>>

> > > > this. So

> > > >

> > > >>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > > >>>

> > > > whether

> > > >

> > > >>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science

> > due

> > > >>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments

of

> > > >>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

want

> > to

> > > >>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

> > > >>>

> > > > examine

> > > >

> > > >>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> > have

> > > >>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > standing

> > > >>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> > > >>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is a

> > > >>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > understand

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> > if

> > > >>>

> > > > you

> > > >

> > > >>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

call

> > an

> > > >>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> > > >>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > >>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > >>>

> > > > religious

> > > >

> > > >>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > >>>

> > > > Moon,

> > > >

> > > >>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

only

> > > >>>

> > > > sages

> > > >

> > > >>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > >>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> > > >>>

> > > > predict

> > > >

> > > >>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > >>>

> > > > grabbing

> > > >

> > > >>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > > >>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > > >>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

donations

> > > >>>

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > >>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

is

> > > >>>

> > > > still

> > > >

> > > >>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > >>>

> > > > everybody

> > > >

> > > >>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > situation,

> > > >>>

> > > > it

> > > >

> > > >>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> > fate

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > > >>>

> > > > fate of

> > > >

> > > >>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

various

> > > >>> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> > > >>>

> > > > sages

> > > >

> > > >>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > >>>

> > > > principles

> > > >

> > > >>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > >>>

> > > > percolated

> > > >

> > > >>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> > learn

> > > >>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > were

> > > >>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> > > >>>

> > > > system.

> > > >

> > > >>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

group

> > > >>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

due

> > to

> > > >>> their business considerations (these astrologers always try

to

> > fit

> > > >>> past event very precisely within some astrological principle

> > > >>>

> > > > within a

> > > >

> > > >>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

> > etc.,

> > > >>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > >>>

> > > > astrological

> > > >

> > > >>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > >>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> > may

> > > >>>

> > > > come

> > > >

> > > >>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > self

> > > >>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> > other

> > > >>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > mislead,

> > > >>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

find

> > > >>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

(say

> > > >>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > astrology.

> > > >>>

> > > > But

> > > >

> > > >>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

the

> > > >>>

> > > > level

> > > >

> > > >>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > >>> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure

was

> > > >>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > >>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > >>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > > >>>

> > > > following

> > > >

> > > >>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > >>>

> > > > subpara).

> > > >

> > > >>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> > > >>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > stationary

> > > >>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

and

> > > >>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy of

> > > >>>

> > > > each

> > > >

> > > >>> other) ?

> > > >>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons

> > over

> > > >>> nector after sea-churning...........

> > > >>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> > > >>>

> > > > quarter

> > > >

> > > >>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > > >>>

> > > > seventh

> > > >

> > > >>> house) ?

> > > >>> Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

exalted

> > > >>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> > Aries

> > > >>> sign) ?

> > > >>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

of

> > the

> > > >>> day is more in comparison to night......

> > > >>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > hub

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> > Venus

> > > >>>

> > > > (a

> > > >

> > > >>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > >>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of

> > > >>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > > >>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> > > >>>

> > > > between

> > > >

> > > >>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> > > >>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > >>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > >>>

> > > > structure

> > > >

> > > >>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

motion

> > of

> > > >>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > > >>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

180

> > > >>>

> > > > deg.

> > > >

> > > >>> apart?

> > > >>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > > >>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > > >>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

month..........

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

as to

> > > >>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> > > >>> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > > >>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

of

> > > >>> Universe.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > > >>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

sage

> > > >>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

the

> > > >>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

in

> > all

> > > >>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

any

> > old

> > > >>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

is

> > > >>>

> > > > beyond

> > > >

> > > >>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> > Moon.

> > > >>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > are

> > > >>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> > > >>>

> > > > astrology

> > > >

> > > >>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

correct

> > > >>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

combination

> > is

> > > >>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > and

> > > >>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > concept

> > > >>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> > view

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > concept

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > >>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > >>>

> > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > >

> > > >>> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > contains

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

the

> > > >>>

> > > > basis

> > > >

> > > >>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

sages

> > to

> > > >>> formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> > > >>>

> > > > English

> > > >

> > > >>> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > can

> > > >>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> > face

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

know

> > more

> > > >>> about the book or description of various chapters then you

may

> > > >>>

> > > > send

> > > >

> > > >>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > >>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > >>>

> > > > produktID=1759836

> > > >

> > > >>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > > >>>

> > > > 20kumar%

> > > >

> > > >>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > > >>>

> > > > 20kumar%>

> > > >

> > > >>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > >>>

> > > >>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > >>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > >>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > >>>

> > > >>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune

> > nor

> > > >>>

> > > > they

> > > >

> > > >>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > presence

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

> > > >>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > >>>

> > > > mentioned in

> > > >

> > > >>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

within

> > 14

> > > >>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

But

> > > >>>

> > > > nobody

> > > >

> > > >>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

when

> > > >>>

> > > > Sun,

> > > >

> > > >>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > respectively

> > > >>>

> > > > on

> > > >

> > > >>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

and

> > > >>>

> > > > Ketu

> > > >

> > > >>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

03-

> > > >>>

> > > > 1988 (

> > > >

> > > >>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > eclipses

> > > >>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more

> > then

> > > >>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> 79.04

> > > >>>

> > > > deg.

> > > >

> > > >>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

at

> > > >>>

> > > > 76.49

> > > >

> > > >>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> > 15.14

> > > >>> deg. away).

> > > >>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > also

> > > >>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred at

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

was

> > not

> > > >>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

of

> > > >>>

> > > > myth).

> > > >

> > > >>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > Moon

> > > >>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > But

> > > >>>

> > > > As

> > > >

> > > >>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

1985

> > > >>>

> > > > and 3-

> > > >

> > > >>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > > >>>

> > > > solar

> > > >

> > > >>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > > >>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

> > > >>>

> > > > eclipses

> > > >

> > > >>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

166

> > > >>>

> > > > degree

> > > >

> > > >>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

possible.

> > > >>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

almanac.

> > > >>>

> > > > Thus

> > > >

> > > >>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > respectively.

> > > >>>

> > > > All

> > > >

> > > >>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > fundamental

> > > >>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

want

> > > >>>

> > > > then I

> > > >

> > > >>> can give many more examples and very simple method of

detecting

> > > >>>

> > > > them.

> > > >

> > > >>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science

> > but

> > > >>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy +

> > > >>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > > >>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> > > >>>

> > > > played an

> > > >

> > > >>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> > > >>>

> > > > immense

> > > >

> > > >>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > >>>

> > > > appears to

> > > >

> > > >>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> > > >>>

> > > > agree

> > > >

> > > >>> with the above observation after going through my original

> > > >>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided as

> > > >>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

try

> > to

> > > >>>

> > > > do

> > > >

> > > >>> some thing, because every thing will take place according to

> > pre-

> > > >>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> > that

> > > >>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> > even

> > > >>>

> > > > then

> > > >

> > > >>> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> > > >>>

> > > > cascading

> > > >

> > > >>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

every

> > > >>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > pre-

> > > >>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > every

> > > >>>

> > > > Tom,

> > > >

> > > >>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

good

> > > >>>

> > > > deed

> > > >

> > > >>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > change.

> > > >>>

> > > > You

> > > >

> > > >>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > >>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > >>>

> > > > never

> > > >

> > > >>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot be

> > > >>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

also

> > > >>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > >>>

> > > > prewritten)

> > > >

> > > >>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

because

> > in

> > > >>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > altered

> > > >>>

> > > > but

> > > >

> > > >>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

can

> > be

> > > >>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit

of

> > > >>> planets?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

assured

> > > >>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> > > >>>

> > > > astronomy

> > > >

> > > >>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > > >>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> > > >>>

> > > > correct.

> > > >

> > > >>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

> > > >>>

> > > > Still if

> > > >

> > > >>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> > James

> > > >>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize to

> > > >>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail

and

> > > >>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > >>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > >>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used to

> > > >>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

business

> > > >>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this

> > sort

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

> > regard

> > > >>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > >>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > >>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct

information

> > of

> > > >>> Universe, solar system.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > >>>

> > > > interaction on

> > > >

> > > >>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

better

> > to

> > > >>>

> > > > know

> > > >

> > > >>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

falling

> > in

> > > >>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > >>>

> > > > (Astrology Is

> > > >

> > > >>> Damaging Society).

> > > >>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > >>> Gwalior

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

creating

> > > >>> problems to moderator

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sanat Ji,

 

My I get your birth data for analysis. There are only 141 members in

this group and there are 441 opinions on each point. It is really a

very rare group. I am unable to understand whether this group is

dedicated to Vedic Astrology or opposed to the Vedic Astrology. If

Respected Sunil Nair and Chandrashekhar ji leave this group, there is

no other supporter of Vedic Astrology.

 

Some learner are suppoerters but they have no voice here.

 

regards

sushil dikshit

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

>

> Dear Nair,

> Thanks for your mail.

>

> >>>>>>>i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

> students

> ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly <<<<<<

>

> It is always your right not to answer. But it is my duty to

answer

> so long you are writing to me and raising some points. How you can

> say that I have not studied astrology. You have not gone through

my

> first mail wherein I clearly mentioned that I have studied

> astrology for more then 35 years.

>

> >>>>>>>>>or like ppl selling

> mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the scinces

> <<<<<<<

>

> I am neither selling mother country nor I am making money by

> befooling general public in the name of Vedic astrology where

as

> Ved has nothing to do with the predictive astrology. So you (not

> particularly you I mean astrologer) are selling the countries

> image in the name of Ved.

>

>

> >>>>>>1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not

> human

> possible .<<<<<<<

> So you are admitting that without going through the books

> astrlogeres are predicting, what a funny excuse.

>

> >>>>>>>u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological

> books<<<<<<<

> Even Surya sidhant was written by Greeks and it was even accepted

> by Varahmihir who included this scripture in his panchsidhant. He

> wrote that though yavan are mlecha (below caste) even they are

> worshiped like sages due to their knowledge of astrology. Even

sign

> (rasshi) was also the creation of greeks.

>

> >>>>>>>>parashara is not one rishi its a title ,<<<<<<<<<

> If you are so poor in this knowledge then what I can do.

>

> >>>>>>>again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or 10th

> century bhaskara ,this a

> continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

destroyes

> rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in

that

> century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

another

> 5000 years to reach to that extent .<<<<<<<<

> My answer was against your earlier statement that

> >>>>>atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where

it

> says its

> gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force

> called

> parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

eclipses

> and

> its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

> moon .<<<<<<<<

> So are you saying that Aryabhatta or Bhaskarchary are famous due

> to repeating the same thing which is written by sages. No, Their

> contention was against the then concept on the basis of their

> findings but it was not accepted because it was against the

> religious concept. If you are poor in religious concept then I am

> sorry. Yes it is a continuous stream of development of knowledge

> that's why I am asking you to know the level of knowledge when

> astrological principle were formulated and for this you have to

read

> the then concept which is well mentioned in Ved and Puran.

>

>

> >>>>>>>Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he

> himself

> says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so

do u

> think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .<<<<<<<

> No, I will not say so but I will say that we have to find the level

> of knowledge which was their in 16th century and if book has some

> principles based on such concept which have been modified after

16th

> century, due to scientific discoveries then the content of the

book

> will definitely be under question.

>

>

> >>>>>>,u say as if science means some solid rock

> without change .<<<<<<<

> No I have never said so. Rather you are pushing the principle based

> on primitive concept of universe like solid rock.

>

>

> >>>>>>>>Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent

> me ur book because after cheating public i made too much money ,so

i

> dnt want to

> part it with u .<<<<

> Not answering is your right. But I am not going to sent you the

> book. If you want then you have to buy it. Sorry.

>

> >>>>>same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and

some

> fellow

> astrologers challenge in out own way .<<<<<<

>

> You can write to them. I have already provided you address.

>

> Thanks,

> Yours,

> sanat

> sanatkumar_jain

> 9-12-2007

>

>

> Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala

> astro_tellerkerala

> Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

>

>

> hare ramakrishna,

>

> dear sanat ji ,

>

> i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading students

> ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like ppl

selling

> mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the scinces

and

> 1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not human

> possible .

>

> u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

>

> parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar jain is

not

> original sant kumara

>

> we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got astrology

> from

> english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or rishis or

> commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

>

> again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a astronomer ,but

do

> u

> thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century bhaskara ,this a

> continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

destroyes

> rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in

that

> century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

another

> 5000 years to reach to that extent .

>

> same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or bhaskara

was a

> flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i will not

> say

> 10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

>

> Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he himself

> says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so

do u

> think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

>

> all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some solid rock

> without change .

>

> astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or climate in

> planets ??

>

> what we use in predictive astrology .

>

> Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent me ur

book

> because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt want

to

> part it with u .

>

> same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and some

> fellow

> astrologers challenge in out own way .

>

> so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl of

equal

> status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u can

> individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me is

its

> not

> my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

>

> if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

>

> regrds sunil nair

>

> i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic of

> scientifc enquiry .

>

> he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is sweet

> unless he is not ready to take it .

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Nair,

> > Thanks for your mail.

> > I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sushil Ji,

Thanks for your 2 messages.

I do not have much time hence I am replying one by one and it is my

duty to answer some questions raised on my blog. Yes you may have

seen my blog in some forums because I want to know as to whether

some astrologer have even seen the scripture or have enquired about

the foundation of principles or they are simply beating the bush. But

I am sorry to say that nobody have gone through the scripture and

they replied on the basis of some false notion. Even you have not

replied.

 

Secondly, I do not want to get my horo analysed. You may continue to

analyse the horo of those who are interested and lost their self

confidence, logic and misguided by astrologers.

 

I don't know who is against the astrology in this forum as I am

concentrated only on those messages which are addressed to me or

which are on my blog. Because it is my duty to answer the querries

raised on my blog.

 

Thanks,

Yours truly,

 

Sanat

 

11-12-2007

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Sushil Dikshit "

<sushil.dikshit wrote:

>

> Sanat Ji,

>

> My I get your birth data for analysis. There are only 141 members

in

> this group and there are 441 opinions on each point. It is really a

> very rare group. I am unable to understand whether this group is

> dedicated to Vedic Astrology or opposed to the Vedic Astrology. If

> Respected Sunil Nair and Chandrashekhar ji leave this group, there

is

> no other supporter of Vedic Astrology.

>

> Some learner are suppoerters but they have no voice here.

>

> regards

> sushil dikshit

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Nair,

> > Thanks for your mail.

> >

> > >>>>>>>i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

> > students

> > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly <<<<<<

> >

> > It is always your right not to answer. But it is my duty to

> answer

> > so long you are writing to me and raising some points. How you

can

> > say that I have not studied astrology. You have not gone

through

> my

> > first mail wherein I clearly mentioned that I have studied

> > astrology for more then 35 years.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>or like ppl selling

> > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

scinces

> > <<<<<<<

> >

> > I am neither selling mother country nor I am making money by

> > befooling general public in the name of Vedic astrology where

> as

> > Ved has nothing to do with the predictive astrology. So you (not

> > particularly you I mean astrologer) are selling the countries

> > image in the name of Ved.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is

not

> > human

> > possible .<<<<<<<

> > So you are admitting that without going through the books

> > astrlogeres are predicting, what a funny excuse.

> >

> > >>>>>>>u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological

> > books<<<<<<<

> > Even Surya sidhant was written by Greeks and it was even

accepted

> > by Varahmihir who included this scripture in his panchsidhant.

He

> > wrote that though yavan are mlecha (below caste) even they

are

> > worshiped like sages due to their knowledge of astrology. Even

> sign

> > (rasshi) was also the creation of greeks.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>parashara is not one rishi its a title ,<<<<<<<<<

> > If you are so poor in this knowledge then what I can do.

> >

> > >>>>>>>again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> > astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or 10th

> > century bhaskara ,this a

> > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> destroyes

> > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in

> that

> > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

> another

> > 5000 years to reach to that extent .<<<<<<<<

> > My answer was against your earlier statement that

> > >>>>>atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth where

> it

> > says its

> > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational force

> > called

> > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

> eclipses

> > and

> > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun or

> > moon .<<<<<<<<

> > So are you saying that Aryabhatta or Bhaskarchary are famous

due

> > to repeating the same thing which is written by sages. No, Their

> > contention was against the then concept on the basis of their

> > findings but it was not accepted because it was against the

> > religious concept. If you are poor in religious concept then I am

> > sorry. Yes it is a continuous stream of development of knowledge

> > that's why I am asking you to know the level of knowledge when

> > astrological principle were formulated and for this you have to

> read

> > the then concept which is well mentioned in Ved and Puran.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>>Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and

he

> > himself

> > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so

> do u

> > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .<<<<<<<

> > No, I will not say so but I will say that we have to find the

level

> > of knowledge which was their in 16th century and if book has some

> > principles based on such concept which have been modified after

> 16th

> > century, due to scientific discoveries then the content of the

> book

> > will definitely be under question.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>,u say as if science means some solid rock

> > without change .<<<<<<<

> > No I have never said so. Rather you are pushing the principle

based

> > on primitive concept of universe like solid rock.

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>>>Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can

sent

> > me ur book because after cheating public i made too much

money ,so

> i

> > dnt want to

> > part it with u .<<<<

> > Not answering is your right. But I am not going to sent you the

> > book. If you want then you have to buy it. Sorry.

> >

> > >>>>>same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and

> some

> > fellow

> > astrologers challenge in out own way .<<<<<<

> >

> > You can write to them. I have already provided you address.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Yours,

> > sanat

> > sanatkumar_jain@

> > 9-12-2007

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala@

> > astro_tellerkerala

> > Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

> >

> >

> > hare ramakrishna,

> >

> > dear sanat ji ,

> >

> > i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

students

> > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like ppl

> selling

> > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

scinces

> and

> > 1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not

human

> > possible .

> >

> > u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

> >

> > parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar jain

is

> not

> > original sant kumara

> >

> > we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got

astrology

> > from

> > english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or rishis

or

> > commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

> >

> > again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

astronomer ,but

> do

> > u

> > thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century

bhaskara ,this a

> > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> destroyes

> > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped in

> that

> > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

> another

> > 5000 years to reach to that extent .

> >

> > same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or bhaskara

> was a

> > flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i will

not

> > say

> > 10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

> >

> > Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he

himself

> > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or obselet ,so

> do u

> > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

> >

> > all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some solid

rock

> > without change .

> >

> > astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or climate in

> > planets ??

> >

> > what we use in predictive astrology .

> >

> > Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent me ur

> book

> > because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt

want

> to

> > part it with u .

> >

> > same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and some

> > fellow

> > astrologers challenge in out own way .

> >

> > so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl of

> equal

> > status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u can

> > individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me is

> its

> > not

> > my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

> >

> > if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

> >

> > regrds sunil nair

> >

> > i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic of

> > scientifc enquiry .

> >

> > he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is sweet

> > unless he is not ready to take it .

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Nair,

> > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

 

I have read your many discussions in various forums. I am not

criticising you but I just want to look into your chart. I have seen

your discussion with even Visti Ji.

 

Secondly, i believe that foundation of the builiding must be very

strong for a tall building that is why I have started a forum

/messages fully

dedicated to learning of vedic astrology from very basics. You can

check the list that we have started from very begining of the vedic

astrology.

 

I am very busy these days so I am not able to participate in

discussion for some more days but I will try to discuss you some

matters.

 

regards

sushil dikshit

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sushil Ji,

> Thanks for your 2 messages.

> I do not have much time hence I am replying one by one and it is my

> duty to answer some questions raised on my blog. Yes you may have

> seen my blog in some forums because I want to know as to whether

> some astrologer have even seen the scripture or have enquired about

> the foundation of principles or they are simply beating the bush.

But

> I am sorry to say that nobody have gone through the scripture and

> they replied on the basis of some false notion. Even you have not

> replied.

>

> Secondly, I do not want to get my horo analysed. You may continue

to

> analyse the horo of those who are interested and lost their self

> confidence, logic and misguided by astrologers.

>

> I don't know who is against the astrology in this forum as I am

> concentrated only on those messages which are addressed to me or

> which are on my blog. Because it is my duty to answer the querries

> raised on my blog.

>

> Thanks,

> Yours truly,

>

> Sanat

>

> 11-12-2007

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Sushil Dikshit "

> <sushil.dikshit@> wrote:

> >

> > Sanat Ji,

> >

> > My I get your birth data for analysis. There are only 141 members

> in

> > this group and there are 441 opinions on each point. It is really

a

> > very rare group. I am unable to understand whether this group is

> > dedicated to Vedic Astrology or opposed to the Vedic Astrology.

If

> > Respected Sunil Nair and Chandrashekhar ji leave this group,

there

> is

> > no other supporter of Vedic Astrology.

> >

> > Some learner are suppoerters but they have no voice here.

> >

> > regards

> > sushil dikshit

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Nair,

> > > Thanks for your mail.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>i going to opt to not reply and i was against u

misleading

> > > students

> > > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly <<<<<<

> > >

> > > It is always your right not to answer. But it is my duty to

> > answer

> > > so long you are writing to me and raising some points. How you

> can

> > > say that I have not studied astrology. You have not gone

> through

> > my

> > > first mail wherein I clearly mentioned that I have studied

> > > astrology for more then 35 years.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>>>or like ppl selling

> > > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

> scinces

> > > <<<<<<<

> > >

> > > I am neither selling mother country nor I am making money by

> > > befooling general public in the name of Vedic astrology

where

> > as

> > > Ved has nothing to do with the predictive astrology. So you

(not

> > > particularly you I mean astrologer) are selling the

countries

> > > image in the name of Ved.

> > >

> > >

> > > >>>>>>1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is

> not

> > > human

> > > possible .<<<<<<<

> > > So you are admitting that without going through the books

> > > astrlogeres are predicting, what a funny excuse.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological

> > > books<<<<<<<

> > > Even Surya sidhant was written by Greeks and it was even

> accepted

> > > by Varahmihir who included this scripture in his panchsidhant.

> He

> > > wrote that though yavan are mlecha (below caste) even they

> are

> > > worshiped like sages due to their knowledge of astrology.

Even

> > sign

> > > (rasshi) was also the creation of greeks.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>>parashara is not one rishi its a title ,<<<<<<<<<

> > > If you are so poor in this knowledge then what I can do.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> > > astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or

10th

> > > century bhaskara ,this a

> > > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> > destroyes

> > > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped

in

> > that

> > > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

> > another

> > > 5000 years to reach to that extent .<<<<<<<<

> > > My answer was against your earlier statement that

> > > >>>>>atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth

where

> > it

> > > says its

> > > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational

force

> > > called

> > > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

> > eclipses

> > > and

> > > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble sun

or

> > > moon .<<<<<<<<

> > > So are you saying that Aryabhatta or Bhaskarchary are famous

> due

> > > to repeating the same thing which is written by sages. No,

Their

> > > contention was against the then concept on the basis of their

> > > findings but it was not accepted because it was against the

> > > religious concept. If you are poor in religious concept then I

am

> > > sorry. Yes it is a continuous stream of development of

knowledge

> > > that's why I am asking you to know the level of knowledge when

> > > astrological principle were formulated and for this you have to

> > read

> > > the then concept which is well mentioned in Ved and Puran.

> > >

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century

and

> he

> > > himself

> > > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or

obselet ,so

> > do u

> > > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .<<<<<<<

> > > No, I will not say so but I will say that we have to find the

> level

> > > of knowledge which was their in 16th century and if book has

some

> > > principles based on such concept which have been modified after

> > 16th

> > > century, due to scientific discoveries then the content of

the

> > book

> > > will definitely be under question.

> > >

> > >

> > > >>>>>>,u say as if science means some solid rock

> > > without change .<<<<<<<

> > > No I have never said so. Rather you are pushing the principle

> based

> > > on primitive concept of universe like solid rock.

> > >

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>>Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can

> sent

> > > me ur book because after cheating public i made too much

> money ,so

> > i

> > > dnt want to

> > > part it with u .<<<<

> > > Not answering is your right. But I am not going to sent you

the

> > > book. If you want then you have to buy it. Sorry.

> > >

> > > >>>>>same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge

and

> > some

> > > fellow

> > > astrologers challenge in out own way .<<<<<<

> > >

> > > You can write to them. I have already provided you address.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Yours,

> > > sanat

> > > sanatkumar_jain@

> > > 9-12-2007

> > >

> > >

> > > Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala@

> > > astro_tellerkerala

> > > Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

> > >

> > >

> > > hare ramakrishna,

> > >

> > > dear sanat ji ,

> > >

> > > i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

> students

> > > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like ppl

> > selling

> > > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

> scinces

> > and

> > > 1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not

> human

> > > possible .

> > >

> > > u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

> > >

> > > parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar jain

> is

> > not

> > > original sant kumara

> > >

> > > we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got

> astrology

> > > from

> > > english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or

rishis

> or

> > > commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

> > >

> > > again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> astronomer ,but

> > do

> > > u

> > > thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century

> bhaskara ,this a

> > > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> > destroyes

> > > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city devlped

in

> > that

> > > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up of

> > another

> > > 5000 years to reach to that extent .

> > >

> > > same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or

bhaskara

> > was a

> > > flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i will

> not

> > > say

> > > 10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

> > >

> > > Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he

> himself

> > > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or

obselet ,so

> > do u

> > > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

> > >

> > > all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some solid

> rock

> > > without change .

> > >

> > > astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or climate

in

> > > planets ??

> > >

> > > what we use in predictive astrology .

> > >

> > > Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent me

ur

> > book

> > > because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt

> want

> > to

> > > part it with u .

> > >

> > > same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and

some

> > > fellow

> > > astrologers challenge in out own way .

> > >

> > > so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl

of

> > equal

> > > status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u

can

> > > individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me

is

> > its

> > > not

> > > my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

> > >

> > > if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

> > >

> > > regrds sunil nair

> > >

> > > i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic of

> > > scientifc enquiry .

> > >

> > > he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is

sweet

> > > unless he is not ready to take it .

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nair,

> > > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > > I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for rejoinder,

I will try to answer your points of 8-12-2007.

>>>>>>>> I am sure you do not think that Surya siddhant is written

after Copernicus. If you are confusing the calculation of the degrees

of the grahas with reference to earth, called drikganita and which is

calculated by siddhanta, with Sun being proposed to be not at the

center of the Surya mandal, that is an unfortunate conclusion that

you are drawing.<<<<<<<<

No, No, How I can draw such a conclusion. But let me clear my

conclusion.

Our sages were of the view that Earth (with Jambudweep and so on)

is stationary as it is placed over the water by Varah. Sun and

planets (not earth) rotates around Pole star thus Sun rotate around

Sumeru Parvat and it is not visible because it is on the other side

of the sumeru parvat. Hence every the then calculation of the

planetary position was with reference to the Earth, but without

knowing that Earth is rotating around the sun. Thus the best the

then principle to know the position of Sun is known as surya sidhant

(around 300 AD, written by Greeks and accepted as best by Varahmihir

for further development of predictive astrology) much after sage

parashar and others who were the founder of astrological principles

(basic), which I have quoted in my first blog.

Thus following point may be cleared if we fix the event and

development in time scale.

1. Sages have not prepared the original surya sidhaant.

2. Thus our sages were not able to correctly locate the

longitude.

3. Longitude is a subsequent development by Ptolemy.

4. Zodiac of 360 degree and thus calculating the position was

again th creation of Greeks.

5. Signs (rashi) were created by Greeks.

6. Our sages were aware with the constellations (due to

position of Moon)

7. There was no concept of ayanansh, though discovered by

Greeks but not accepted by even Greeks.

But most important point is what was the level of knowledge

irrespective of Indian-Greek tussle at the time of framing of

astrological basic principle (10 points of my first blog).

 

>>>>>>>>Unfortunately you seem to think that astrological knowledge

is limited to Vishnu Purana and appear to be reluctant to read other

sources of astrological texts.<<<<<<<<

Again No, I am not thinking so. I am referring VP because it was

written by sage parashar. Who was the main founder of astrological

principls (200 BC). Thus it is obvious that astrological principles

must be formulated on the knowledge which he knows and which is well

written in VP. Thus VP or say the then other script may be basis of

formulation and none else (like the concept of Ptolemy,

suryasidhant, Aryabatt, Bhaskaracharya or grahlaghav etc.). In this

situation if we want to modify some concept of sage parashar & othres

then we must know his concept or we may reject his concept. So

neither we are prepared to know his concept nor we are prepared to

reject his concept. But when we use ayanansh then automatically his

all concept get rejected Or when we use modern astronomical solar

system then too we reject his concept and means his principles.

>>>>>>>> proper definition of what is a planet and could not even not

understand that Pluto is not a planet till recently<<<<<<<<

Above query was raised on 26-11-2007 which was properly replied and

on that you sent a rejoinder dated 1-12-2007, which was again

replied on 3-12…….. I think you have lost the track as I used to

write a little late due to other preoccupation. But I always reply a

mail which is addressed to me and not the mails between the group

members.

Thanks once again.

Yours

 

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

(readers may write to me on my email)

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Sanat,

>

> I am sure you do not think that Surya siddhant is written after

> Copernicus. If you are confusing the calculation of the degrees of

the

> grahas with reference to earth, called drikganita and which is

> calculated by siddhanta, with Sun being proposed to be not at the

center

> of the Surya mandal, that is an unfortunate conclusion that you are

> drawing.

>

> If you treat the shape of an aeroplane wheel as modification of the

> principle of wheel, you are free to say what you want about other

> sciences too.

>

> As to proving old principles wrong. Merely saying they are wrong

does

> not prove them to be wrong. Unfortunately you seem to think that

> astrological knowledge is limited to Vishnu Purana and appear to be

> reluctant to read other sources of astrological texts.

>

> You have not yet replied to my original query as to why when the

modern

> scientists and astronomers whom you are so fond of could not even

devise

> a proper definition of what is a planet and could not even not

> understand that Pluto is not a planet till recently. Since you

obviously

> think that modern astronomy is something better and different than

the

> siddhanta of Jyotish and since as you say the old principles are

proven

> wrong, it follows that the modern principles that you are preaching

must

> be right. Why then did these principles that are so modern fail to

> identify whether an astral body is a planet or not for so long?

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> sanat2221 wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

> > Thanks for rejoinder,

> > I will try to answer your points

> >

> > >>>>>>>>science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

> > knowledge " as you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

> > Primitive knowledge.<<<<<<<<

> >

> > Let me clear some confusion in understanding or explanation.

> > Knowledge is a continuous process. And every knowledge is modern

so

> > long it is serving the purpose and some new concept is not

developed.

> > But if in the era of modern knowledge (not 21st century but even

in

> > past) if some one try to push that old concept or some principles

> > formulated on that old concept which have been proven wrong then

it

> > is primitive knowledge and we must come out from it.

> >

> > Let me further clear. Principle of Archemidies about the density

> > though formulated before 200 BC but no body will say that it is

> > primitive. Because nothing new have been devised. But if you even

> > want to purchase a 386 or AT/XT computer then every body will say

it

> > is old and it will not be available though it is mearly 10 years

old.

> > Like wise the concept of every religion or society was that Earth

is

> > stationary, though there may be various concept (including the

> > concept of Ptolemy who was of the view that Earth is sphere) but

> > only the concept of stationary Earth was acceptable beyond doubt.

> > Concept of Indian sages was that Sun is nearer (1lakh yojan above

or

> > 14.4 Lakh km above the Earth) and Moon is above the Sun,

> > Constellation was above the Moon and below the Mercury and so

on .........

> > (refer Vishnu Puran written by sage Parashar who was the founder

of

> > astrological principles). In this situation how Parashar could

have

> > developed the astrological principles (predictive) which may be

based

> > on the modern concept of solar system, which have been proudly

> > included in almost every astrological book in such a way so that

> > general public may think that astrology is scientific. So it is

> > astrologers who are befooling general public and some interested

> > persons take it as hobby and instead of studying the truth behind

> > it, simply lost in the forest of prediction where they never find

a

> > single true prediction except some fluke. Businessmen astrologer

> > are so cunning that they take shelter behind sage or science

> > whichever suits to them.

> >

> > >>>>>>>It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

> > Copernicus. If this is your view, it maybe better that you read

more

> > Jyotish books on

> > siddhanta and then advance your theories.<<<<<<<

> >

> > I will like to know about some siddhant which have been accepted

> > before Copernicus. Please do not forget to intimate me so that I

may

> > ask Education deptt. to change the chapters accordingly.

> >

> > >>>>>Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about

a

> > certain concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

> > one.<<<<<<<<

> >

> > Every concept either it may subsequently be right or wrong can

never

> > be accepted without some logic. Hence I am right in asking as to

how

> > a principle was devised. If you want to know as to how it was

devised

> > within the framework of the then knowledge then I have given some

> > short hints after every question or you read my book or you give

> > some logical answer instead of beating the bush on the basis of

your

> > faith, igonorence and lack of inquisitiveness. Sorrry I do not

want

> > to hurt your feelings about the primitive concept. But it is your

> > right to think in any way either by learning/ reading or by

> > believing. But I will say what is the harm in digging any

knowledge.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of

the

> > greatest invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying

> > that you can not reinvent the wheel. it appe<<<<<<<

> > I have said

> > .........and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because that

primitive

> > wheel has not yet been changed and still used by Aadiwasis whereas

> > wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and then...........

> > that " we must use that wheel...... " here that means which one was

> > created by ancient people, either it may be bamboo piece or it may

> > be like a solid wheel or wheel used in bullock cart but none of

these

> > wheels can be used in Aeroplane, on the plea that wheel of bullock

> > cart was used by our sages. Thus If sages have the view of fixed

> > Earth, there is no harm because it was the then knowledge which

was

> > subsequently modified to solar system after thousands of years.

> >

> > But still answer to my first blog is still pending. It is your

right

> > that you may not answer because actually it is not your fault as

you

> > have not devised the principles but it is correct that you have

never

> > asked such questions in the wind of prediction. But why don't you

> > take this new venture to find the truth and serving the people in

> > that way.

> >

> > Thanks for your valuable comments.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain <Sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com>

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanat,

> > >

> > > I do not understand why a changeable definition of basic

parameters

> > of a

> > > science is modern science and is development of " Primitive

> > knowledge " as

> > > you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are Primitive

knowledge.

> > >

> > > It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

> > Copernicus. If

> > > this is your view, it maybe better that you read more Jyotish

books

> > on

> > > siddhanta and then advance your theories.

> > >

> > > Your assumption about how the sages could have thought about a

> > certain

> > > concept is your own view and not necessarily the right one.

> > >

> > > I do not know your source of information on wheel or its

structure

> > but

> > > am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of the

> > greatest

> > > invention of ancient times. That is why there is a saying that

you

> > can

> > > not reinvent the wheel. it appears you do not to that

> > view and

> > > apply engineering principles in a manner not know to engineers,

> > when you

> > > talk about wheels.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > sanat2221 wrote:

> > > > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not answering

the

> > > > many questions raised so far.

> > > >

> > > > You said

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>> ......However if the sages have not changed their views

of

> > what

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years,

are to

> > be

> > > > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > > > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete and what is

> > science.

> > > > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of accumulating

the

> > > > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why scientific

knowledge

> > or

> > > > we may say knowledge of human being is improving day-by-day.

But

> > if

> > > > you are sticking to a knowledge without any explanation like

> > > > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in dense forest

with

> > > > their own concept about the world.) then it will certainly be

> > > > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never criticized or

under-

> > > > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their knowledge was best

> > with

> > > > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and concept.

In

> > > > other words I may say that the person who has devised the

wheel

> > or

> > > > fire with striking the stone is not less then a scientist.

> > Because he

> > > > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if in 21st

> > century

> > > > you start to say that wheel invented by some intelligent

person

> > (he

> > > > would have been some sage, because a person having knowledge

was

> > > > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in aeroplane

because

> > > > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and still used

by

> > > > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is changing every

now

> > and

> > > > then. In the same way if you put sages (other civilizations

too

> > had

> > > > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in Indian

> > > > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and so on.) in

the

> > > > thread of development of human civilization then only you can

> > realize

> > > > the importance with reference to the then knowledge and

> > primitive

> > > > with reference to modern knowledge.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>>> but there is a difference in the way planet is defined

by

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha is

defined by

> > the

> > > > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish. <<<<<<<<<

> > > > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every movable

thing

> > is

> > > > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being and deties.

> > Then

> > > > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to think

otherwise

> > in

> > > > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as planets even

> > then

> > > > there is no harm because with the then concept of planet they

> > move

> > > > hence our sages were right. How do they come to know that Sun

is

> > a

> > > > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply your modern

> > > > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of Earth is

sphere

> > or

> > > > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the concept of our

> > sages

> > > > were right with reference to the then level of knowledge and

best

> > > > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their own manner

> > of

> > > > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the primitive

> > > > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of years of

> > human

> > > > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar system.

But he

> > was

> > > > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which is still

> > > > existing and not willing to accept other then what ever has

been

> > > > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily) that he

> > offered

> > > > the concept without his name. He gave the concept that planet

> > used to

> > > > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth is not in

the

> > > > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded by the

> > Galileo,

> > > > who have to face death, because it was against the concept of

> > Bible.

> > > > But if he would have been here even then he has to face the

> > death.

> > > > Because again this concept was against the concept of sages

and

> > > > religion.

> > > >

> > > > So don,t say that concept of science is different but it is

only

> > > > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of

development

> > > > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we would not

> > have

> > > > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern knowledge of

> > 21st

> > > > century would be primitive with reference to the knowledge of

> > 40th

> > > > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but we should

not

> > > > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive age they

were

> > not

> > > > super because they always tried to learn the knowledge of

Greek,

> > > > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared to learn

any

> > > > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated the

principle of

> > > > astrology were only trying their best to know the destiny with

> > the

> > > > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is wrong. Every

body

> > > > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in finding out the

> > life on

> > > > other planets. But they are doing experiments, research and so

> > on. In

> > > > the same way when sages could assess the timing of eclipse

> > (troubles

> > > > on deties and know the way to relieve them by donation and so

on)

> > > > then why can't they venture to find out the troubles of King

and

> > > > subsequently of general public. For this they tried to

formulate

> > some

> > > > principles, and for this they were quite open and accepted the

> > > > concept of signs, which was not known to them (sages). Thus

some

> > > > output appears to be correct (psychologically, which was not

> > known in

> > > > those days). Even in those days astrology (predictive) was not

> > > > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has stated in

> > Manusmriti

> > > > that those who talks about astrology (predictive) must be

> > expelled

> > > > from the gathering of learned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>>> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much

purpose

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > will be served in answering your blog<<<<<<<

> > > > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of the sages

> > were

> > > > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we used to

see,

> > then

> > > > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say like this.

At

> > the

> > > > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a star but it

was

> > > > planet according to the sages. In this regard I have already

> > > > explained that our sages were not aware with the concept of

> > solar

> > > > system so they may know which is planet and which is star. But

> > it

> > > > makes no difference till we take it as a developmental

process.

> > > >

> > > > I am always giving a detailed reply though much more remains

left

> > in

> > > > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want to

continue or

> > not

> > > > and whether you or other member / moderator is willing to give

> > reply

> > > > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading my book).

But

> > I

> > > > will continue to reply if there may be slightest defence or

> > question.

> > > > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke and ran away

> > from

> > > > direct discussion.

> > > >

> > > > Now I can only wait and see for any message from the group.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sanat

> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > > > 3-12-2007

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Dear Sanat,

> > > >>

> > > >> It is interesting that, in your opinion, though the modern

day

> > > >> scientists that you adore so much, change the definition of

what

> > in

> > > >> their view should be termed a planet, their views are to be

> > taken

> > > >>

> > > > as

> > > >

> > > >> sacrosanct. However if the sages have not changed their

views of

> > > >>

> > > > what

> > > >

> > > >> should be the definition of graha, for thousands of years,

are

> > to

> > > >>

> > > > be

> > > >

> > > >> called primitive.

> > > >>

> > > >> I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but there is a

> > > >>

> > > > difference in

> > > >

> > > >> the way planet is defined by western astronomers and the

manner

> > in

> > > >>

> > > > which

> > > >

> > > >> a graha is defined by the sages who laid the foundation of

> > Jyotish.

> > > >> Since you assume the two to be identical, not much purpose

will

> > be

> > > >> served in answering your blog in the way of advancing the

> > knowledge

> > > >>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >> astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> > > >>

> > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>> Thanks for your mail.

> > > >>> Though you have not replied the points raised in my blog.

But

> > you

> > > >>> raised question about Pluto.

> > > >>> I think either you are not aware with the circumstances as

to

> > why

> > > >>>

> > > > it

> > > >

> > > >>> was treated as planet and why removed from the group or you

are

> > > >>> checking my knowledge. So let me first gave short answer to

> > your

> > > >>> question.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was concept in the Primitive age that every movable body

> > among

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the then knowledge

and

> > > >>> experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and

Saturn

> > > >>>

> > > > were

> > > >

> > > >>> treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon was treated as

> > planets

> > > >>>

> > > > by

> > > >

> > > >>> our sages and not a star or satellite, which astrologers are

> > now

> > > >>> propagating in the name of astrology.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On the basis of this definition an orbiting body Uranus

found

> > by

> > > >>> William Herschel in 1781 was known as a planet. In

continuity

> > of

> > > >>>

> > > > this

> > > >

> > > >>> discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed by discoveries

of

> > > >>>

> > > > Pallas,

> > > >

> > > >>> Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom Baugh discovered

Pluto

> > > >>> planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in the Kuiper belt,

In

> > > >>>

> > > > 2005,

> > > >

> > > >>> Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was bigger then Pluto and

it

> > > >>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>> thought to have a proper definition of planet. Remember that

> > none

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> these planets were discovered by the astrologers of India,

> > > >>>

> > > > because

> > > >

> > > >>> all of them were busy in befooling the general public in the

> > name

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000 astronomers that

> > any

> > > >>> moving body will be planet if it has cleared other small

bodies

> > > >>> around its orbit. Some planets have not cleared this third

> > > >>>

> > > > condition

> > > >

> > > >>> hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

> > Jena

> > > >>>

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > >>> bodies could not be treated as planet and another category

of

> > > >>>

> > > > Dwarf

> > > >

> > > >>> planet other then star, planet, satellite was created to

> > > >>>

> > > > accommodate

> > > >

> > > >>> all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is known as Dwarf

planet

> > > >>>

> > > > number

> > > >

> > > >>> 134340. Now according to new definition Sun has eight

planets

> > > >>> (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and

> > > >>>

> > > > Neptune).

> > > >

> > > >>> So will you please come forward and intimate me as to when

are

> > > >>>

> > > > you

> > > >

> > > >>> and other astrologers are going to use Uranus & Neptune in

> > > >>> Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc. again in the

name

> > of

> > > >>> sages.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I think I have given a short brief about the Pluto. Now I am

> > sure

> > > >>> that you will like to answer my blog point wise.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Thanks,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Sanat

> > > >>> Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Vedic Astrologyandhealing

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > >>> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Dear Sanatkumar,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Would you throw some light on why in the first instance

Pluto

> > > >>>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>>> classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a

planet

> > > >>>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> only

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> recently declassified from that status, before you question

> > the

> > > >>>> primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the

> > > >>>>

> > > > principles,

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> are being used by even those who claim to have invented new

> > > >>>>

> > > > methods

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> astrological predictions.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > >>>>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

some

> > > >>>>> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied

> > in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> depth

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> but you only have faith, because you have been informed

like

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> this. So

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> whether

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

science

> > > >>>>>

> > > > due

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> to

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the

sentiments of

> > > >>>>> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> > want

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

us

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> examine

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> > > >>>>>

> > > > have

> > > >

> > > >>>>> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > > >>>>>

> > > > standing

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> > > >>>>> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is a

> > > >>>>> science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > > >>>>>

> > > > understand

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> > > >>>>>

> > > > if

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> you

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> > call

> > > >>>>>

> > > > an

> > > >

> > > >>>>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> > early

> > > >>>>> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > >>>>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> religious

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Moon,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

> > only

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> sages

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > >>>>> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> predict

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> grabbing

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and

Ketu.

> > > >>>>> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and

its

> > > >>>>> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> > donations

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> etc.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu,

which is

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> still

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> everybody

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > situation,

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> it

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fate

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> fate of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> > various

> > > >>>>> astrological principles on the basis of the then

knowledge of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> sages

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> principles

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> percolated

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > learn

> > > >

> > > >>>>> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > > >>>>>

> > > > were

> > > >

> > > >>>>> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> > Western

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> system.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> > group

> > > >>>>> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

> > due

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> their business considerations (these astrologers always

try

> > to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fit

> > > >

> > > >>>>> past event very precisely within some astrological

principle

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> within a

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

faith

> > > >>>>>

> > > > etc.,

> > > >

> > > >>>>> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrological

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > >>>>> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

fluke)

> > > >>>>>

> > > > may

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> come

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > > >>>>>

> > > > self

> > > >

> > > >>>>> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle

on

> > > >>>>>

> > > > other

> > > >

> > > >>>>> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > > >>>>>

> > > > mislead,

> > > >

> > > >>>>> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> > find

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> > (say

> > > >>>>> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > > >>>>>

> > > > astrology.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> But

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

> > the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> level

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > >>>>> astrological principles in primitive age and what

procedure

> > was

> > > >>>>> adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > >>>>> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

Vinshottary

> > > >>>>> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles

then

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> following

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> subpara).

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> > > >>>>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > stationary

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is

enmity

> > and

> > > >>>>> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> > of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> each

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> other) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

demons

> > > >>>>>

> > > > over

> > > >

> > > >>>>> nector after sea-churning...........

> > > >>>>> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

(full,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> quarter

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect

on

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> seventh

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> house) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on the position of army in the battle

field...........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> > exalted

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> and

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg.

of

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Aries

> > > >

> > > >>>>> sign) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when

duration

> > of

> > > >>>>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>>>> day is more in comparison to night......

> > > >>>>> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > > >>>>>

> > > > hub

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha

whereas

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Venus

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> (a

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > >>>>> Based on two triangles derived after working out the

effect of

> > > >>>>> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > > >>>>> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> between

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> > > >>>>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> structure

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> > motion

> > > >>>>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > > >>>>> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> > 180

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deg.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> apart?

> > > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > > >>>>> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of

eclipse ?

> > > >>>>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> > month..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final

question as

> > to

> > > >>>>> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> > > >>>>> answers to these questions then he will realise that

entire

> > > >>>>> astrological principles are totally based on wrong

concept of

> > > >>>>> Universe.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

then

> > > >>>>> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed

by

> > sage

> > > >>>>> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is

in

> > the

> > > >>>>> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also

believed in

> > > >>>>>

> > > > all

> > > >

> > > >>>>> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

> > any

> > > >>>>>

> > > > old

> > > >

> > > >>>>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas

Moon

> > is

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> beyond

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury

and

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Moon.

> > > >

> > > >>>>> You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > > >>>>>

> > > > are

> > > >

> > > >>>>> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self

studying

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrology

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> > correct

> > > >>>>> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> > combination

> > > >>>>>

> > > > is

> > > >

> > > >>>>> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > > >>>>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>>>> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > > >>>>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>>>> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling

in

> > > >>>>>

> > > > view

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > > >>>>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > >>>>> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrology " Jyotish -

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > > >>>>>

> > > > contains

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles

on

> > the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> basis

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> > sages

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> formulate these principles. This book was also published

in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> English

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > > >>>>>

> > > > can

> > > >

> > > >>>>> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > face

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to

know

> > > >>>>>

> > > > more

> > > >

> > > >>>>> about the book or description of various chapters then you

> > may

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> send

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > >>>>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> produktID=1759836

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?>

> > produktID=1759836>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 20kumar%

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 20kumar%>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>>

> > > >>>>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> > > >>>>>

> > > > nor

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> they

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > presence

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> concept

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> mentioned in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > within

> > > >>>>>

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > >>>>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> > But

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> nobody

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> > when

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Sun,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > > >>>>>

> > > > respectively

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> on

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun,

Moon

> > and

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Ketu

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on

03-

> > 03-

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 1988 (

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > > >>>>>

> > > > eclipses

> > > >

> > > >>>>> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

more

> > > >>>>>

> > > > then

> > > >

> > > >>>>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> > 79.04

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deg.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon

were

> > at

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 76.49

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> > > >>>>>

> > > > 15.14

> > > >

> > > >>>>> deg. away).

> > > >>>>> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > > >>>>>

> > > > also

> > > >

> > > >>>>> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred

> > at

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

> > was

> > > >>>>>

> > > > not

> > > >

> > > >>>>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the

basis of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> myth).

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Moon

> > > >

> > > >>>>> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > > >>>>>

> > > > But

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> As

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> > 1985

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> and 3-

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> solar

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > >>>>> respectively. You will agree that when there were full

solar

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> eclipses

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

> > 166

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> degree

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> > possible.

> > > >>>>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> > almanac.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Thus

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > > >>>>>

> > > > respectively.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> All

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fundamental

> > > >

> > > >>>>> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> > want

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> then I

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> can give many more examples and very simple method of

> > detecting

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> them.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

> > > >>>>>

> > > > but

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy

> > +

> > > >>>>> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > > >>>>> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive

age)

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> played an

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> immense

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> appears to

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> agree

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> with the above observation after going through my original

> > > >>>>> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided

> > as

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> was

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

> > try

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> do

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> some thing, because every thing will take place according

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>>>> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

modifying

> > > >>>>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> pre-

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> written destiny, because if we try to change only our

fate,

> > > >>>>>

> > > > even

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> then

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> all attached happening will automatically change creating

a

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> cascading

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> > every

> > > >>>>> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > > >>>>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>>>> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > > >>>>>

> > > > every

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Tom,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> > good

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deed

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > > >>>>>

> > > > change.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> You

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > >>>>> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> never

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot

> > be

> > > >>>>> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction

is

> > also

> > > >>>>> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> prewritten)

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> > because

> > > >>>>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>>>> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > > >>>>>

> > > > altered

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> but

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked

prediction

> > can

> > > >>>>>

> > > > be

> > > >

> > > >>>>> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed

transit of

> > > >>>>> planets?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> > assured

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

Only

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astronomy

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were

used

> > > >>>>> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it

appears

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> correct.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

myth.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Still if

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

The

> > > >>>>>

> > > > James

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize

> > to

> > > >>>>> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-

mail

> > and

> > > >>>>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > >>>>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org>

> > <http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org>> Because modern

> > > >>>>> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used

> > to

> > > >>>>> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> > business

> > > >>>>> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > sort

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in

this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > regard

> > > >

> > > >>>>> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > >>>>> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > >>>>> principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> > information

> > > >>>>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Universe, solar system.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> interaction on

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>>>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

> > better

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> know

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> > falling

> > > >>>>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>>>> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> (Astrology Is

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Damaging Society).

> > > >>>>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > >>>>> Gwalior

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of

> > creating

> > > >>>>> problems to moderator

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sushil Ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your message.

 

>>>>>>> I have seen your discussion with even Visti Ji.<<<<<<

Sorry, I am unable to recollect Vistiji and discussion. Please

inform some more reference.

 

>>>>>>>>………..fully dedicated to learning of vedic astrology from very

basics. You can

check the list that we have started from very begining of the vedic

astrology.<<<<<<

 

Good work . As you want me to check the list that is you are inviting

me to your forum. OK. I am joining your forum.

 

I think for such general messages (when you have nothing to say

about my blog) you may directly write to me on my email.

 

Thanks,

Yours truly,

 

Sanat

 

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Sushil Dikshit "

<sushil.dikshit wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sir,

>

> I have read your many discussions in various forums. I am not

> criticising you but I just want to look into your chart. I have

seen

> your discussion with even Visti Ji.

>

> Secondly, i believe that foundation of the builiding must be very

> strong for a tall building that is why I have started a forum

> /messages

fully

> dedicated to learning of vedic astrology from very basics. You can

> check the list that we have started from very begining of the vedic

> astrology.

>

> I am very busy these days so I am not able to participate in

> discussion for some more days but I will try to discuss you some

> matters.

>

> regards

> sushil dikshit

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Sushil Ji,

> > Thanks for your 2 messages.

> > I do not have much time hence I am replying one by one and it is

my

> > duty to answer some questions raised on my blog. Yes you may have

> > seen my blog in some forums because I want to know as to whether

> > some astrologer have even seen the scripture or have enquired

about

> > the foundation of principles or they are simply beating the bush.

> But

> > I am sorry to say that nobody have gone through the scripture and

> > they replied on the basis of some false notion. Even you have

not

> > replied.

> >

> > Secondly, I do not want to get my horo analysed. You may

continue

> to

> > analyse the horo of those who are interested and lost their self

> > confidence, logic and misguided by astrologers.

> >

> > I don't know who is against the astrology in this forum as I am

> > concentrated only on those messages which are addressed to me or

> > which are on my blog. Because it is my duty to answer the

querries

> > raised on my blog.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Yours truly,

> >

> > Sanat

> >

> > 11-12-2007

> >

> >

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Sushil Dikshit "

> > <sushil.dikshit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sanat Ji,

> > >

> > > My I get your birth data for analysis. There are only 141

members

> > in

> > > this group and there are 441 opinions on each point. It is

really

> a

> > > very rare group. I am unable to understand whether this group

is

> > > dedicated to Vedic Astrology or opposed to the Vedic Astrology.

> If

> > > Respected Sunil Nair and Chandrashekhar ji leave this group,

> there

> > is

> > > no other supporter of Vedic Astrology.

> > >

> > > Some learner are suppoerters but they have no voice here.

> > >

> > > regards

> > > sushil dikshit

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nair,

> > > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>i going to opt to not reply and i was against u

> misleading

> > > > students

> > > > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly <<<<<<

> > > >

> > > > It is always your right not to answer. But it is my duty to

> > > answer

> > > > so long you are writing to me and raising some points. How

you

> > can

> > > > say that I have not studied astrology. You have not gone

> > through

> > > my

> > > > first mail wherein I clearly mentioned that I have studied

> > > > astrology for more then 35 years.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>>>or like ppl selling

> > > > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

> > scinces

> > > > <<<<<<<

> > > >

> > > > I am neither selling mother country nor I am making money by

> > > > befooling general public in the name of Vedic astrology

> where

> > > as

> > > > Ved has nothing to do with the predictive astrology. So you

> (not

> > > > particularly you I mean astrologer) are selling the

> countries

> > > > image in the name of Ved.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which

is

> > not

> > > > human

> > > > possible .<<<<<<<

> > > > So you are admitting that without going through the books

> > > > astrlogeres are predicting, what a funny excuse.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological

> > > > books<<<<<<<

> > > > Even Surya sidhant was written by Greeks and it was even

> > accepted

> > > > by Varahmihir who included this scripture in his

panchsidhant.

> > He

> > > > wrote that though yavan are mlecha (below caste) even

they

> > are

> > > > worshiped like sages due to their knowledge of astrology.

> Even

> > > sign

> > > > (rasshi) was also the creation of greeks.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>>parashara is not one rishi its a title ,<<<<<<<<<

> > > > If you are so poor in this knowledge then what I can do.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> > > > astronomer ,but do u thing this sastra originated by him or

> 10th

> > > > century bhaskara ,this a

> > > > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> > > destroyes

> > > > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city

devlped

> in

> > > that

> > > > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up

of

> > > another

> > > > 5000 years to reach to that extent .<<<<<<<<

> > > > My answer was against your earlier statement that

> > > > >>>>>atleast aryabhateeyam it says so many things abt earth

> where

> > > it

> > > > says its

> > > > gola is nature and even discusess the mutual gravitational

> force

> > > > called

> > > > parivahan sakti like this ,even bhaskaracharya says abt the

> > > eclipses

> > > > and

> > > > its not some mythical storey that rahu is trying to gobble

sun

> or

> > > > moon .<<<<<<<<

> > > > So are you saying that Aryabhatta or Bhaskarchary are

famous

> > due

> > > > to repeating the same thing which is written by sages. No,

> Their

> > > > contention was against the then concept on the basis of

their

> > > > findings but it was not accepted because it was against the

> > > > religious concept. If you are poor in religious concept then

I

> am

> > > > sorry. Yes it is a continuous stream of development of

> knowledge

> > > > that's why I am asking you to know the level of knowledge

when

> > > > astrological principle were formulated and for this you have

to

> > > read

> > > > the then concept which is well mentioned in Ved and Puran.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century

> and

> > he

> > > > himself

> > > > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or

> obselet ,so

> > > do u

> > > > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .<<<<<<<

> > > > No, I will not say so but I will say that we have to find the

> > level

> > > > of knowledge which was their in 16th century and if book has

> some

> > > > principles based on such concept which have been modified

after

> > > 16th

> > > > century, due to scientific discoveries then the content of

> the

> > > book

> > > > will definitely be under question.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>,u say as if science means some solid rock

> > > > without change .<<<<<<<

> > > > No I have never said so. Rather you are pushing the principle

> > based

> > > > on primitive concept of universe like solid rock.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>>>Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u

can

> > sent

> > > > me ur book because after cheating public i made too much

> > money ,so

> > > i

> > > > dnt want to

> > > > part it with u .<<<<

> > > > Not answering is your right. But I am not going to sent you

> the

> > > > book. If you want then you have to buy it. Sorry.

> > > >

> > > > >>>>>same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge

> and

> > > some

> > > > fellow

> > > > astrologers challenge in out own way .<<<<<<

> > > >

> > > > You can write to them. I have already provided you address.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Yours,

> > > > sanat

> > > > sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > 9-12-2007

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " sunil nair " astro_tellerkerala@

> > > > astro_tellerkerala

> > > > Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > hare ramakrishna,

> > > >

> > > > dear sanat ji ,

> > > >

> > > > i going to opt to not reply and i was against u misleading

> > students

> > > > ,since u hav no interest in knowing astro properly or like

ppl

> > > selling

> > > > mother country and making money u r asking me to prove the

> > scinces

> > > and

> > > > 1000s of books lying in different part of india ,which is not

> > human

> > > > possible .

> > > >

> > > > u say abt greeks can u tell me one greek astrological books

> > > >

> > > > parashara is not one rishi its a title ,like u sanat kumar

jain

> > is

> > > not

> > > > original sant kumara

> > > >

> > > > we r using english names now ,it doesnot mean that we got

> > astrology

> > > > from

> > > > english ,same way laungage devlped in markets ,so munis or

> rishis

> > or

> > > > commentaters use the common laungage used by masses.

> > > >

> > > > again u said aryab bhatta may be 6th century and a

> > astronomer ,but

> > > do

> > > > u

> > > > thing this sastra originated by him or 10th century

> > bhaskara ,this a

> > > > continous stream ,like mohenjadareo harrappan cities may be

> > > destroyes

> > > > rit now (means b4 5000yers) and do u think so the city

devlped

> in

> > > that

> > > > century or if u know history u know that it needs a back up

of

> > > another

> > > > 5000 years to reach to that extent .

> > > >

> > > > same way varahmihira (pre aryabhatta ) or aryabhatta or

> bhaskara

> > > was a

> > > > flow in the stream .which started may be 10000 years b4 .i

will

> > not

> > > > say

> > > > 10000b4 astro is completely devlped .

> > > >

> > > > Prashna marag of kerala is written may b 16th century and he

> > himself

> > > > says and refers so many horas and books which lost or

> obselet ,so

> > > do u

> > > > think kerala astro was devlped in 16th century .

> > > >

> > > > all u r arguemt r similar ,u say as if science means some

solid

> > rock

> > > > without change .

> > > >

> > > > astrology what we need to change ,the circumference or

climate

> in

> > > > planets ??

> > > >

> > > > what we use in predictive astrology .

> > > >

> > > > Now today onwards i will not answer ur comments ,u can sent

me

> ur

> > > book

> > > > because after cheating public i made too much money ,so i dnt

> > want

> > > to

> > > > part it with u .

> > > >

> > > > same way randi fountation also dont accept my challenge and

> some

> > > > fellow

> > > > astrologers challenge in out own way .

> > > >

> > > > so sorry we r not eaqual and sastra says to interact with ppl

> of

> > > equal

> > > > status .Sp i will not answer u again ,reagrding predictions u

> can

> > > > individauly serch in mails and ask each memebr how correct me

> is

> > > its

> > > > not

> > > > my duty to trumpet my success or ability ,

> > > >

> > > > if u want u come presonaly and pay my time i am ready .

> > > >

> > > > regrds sunil nair

> > > >

> > > > i request all gurus to avoid this man who dont know the basic

of

> > > > scientifc enquiry .

> > > >

> > > > he wanted us to prov to his cousins .how i can prov sugar is

> sweet

> > > > unless he is not ready to take it .

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nair,

> > > > > Thanks for your mail.

> > > > > I think there is no harm in knowing many things.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanat,

 

It seems that you like to project your opinions of what the sages

thought as the thoughts of the sages. If the end of pralaya talks about

earth being lifted from the seas, it does not mean that the earth was

thought to be stationary. Since you have decided that astrology is post

Purana times, this discussion can go no where.

 

When you say that longitude is creation of Ptolemy, it is apparent that

you have not read about Lankodaya neither are you aware what it refers

to. Again the logic that since the zodiac is divided into 360 degrees

it must be the discovery of Greeks defies logic. As to concept of

Ayanamsha having to be approved by Greeks to be correct is a strange

logic. It is a physical phenomenon and if the Greeks did not understand

it the theory that they invented astrology is ridiculous, if I may say

so.

 

Merely giving reasons why Pluto was recategorized as a non planet, at a

later date, does not answer the original query as to how the so called

astronomical geniuses categorized it as a planet in the first place.

 

Chandrashekhar.

sanat2221 wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for rejoinder,

I will try to answer your points of 8-12-2007.

>>>>>>>> I am sure you do not think that Surya

siddhant is written

after Copernicus. If you are confusing the calculation of the degrees

of the grahas with reference to earth, called drikganita and which is

calculated by siddhanta, with Sun being proposed to be not at the

center of the Surya mandal, that is an unfortunate conclusion that

you are drawing.<<<<<<<<

No, No, How I can draw such a conclusion. But let me clear my

conclusion.

Our sages were of the view that Earth (with Jambudweep and so on)

is stationary as it is placed over the water by Varah. Sun and

planets (not earth) rotates around Pole star thus Sun rotate around

Sumeru Parvat and it is not visible because it is on the other side

of the sumeru parvat. Hence every the then calculation of the

planetary position was with reference to the Earth, but without

knowing that Earth is rotating around the sun. Thus the best the

then principle to know the position of Sun is known as surya sidhant

(around 300 AD, written by Greeks and accepted as best by Varahmihir

for further development of predictive astrology) much after sage

parashar and others who were the founder of astrological principles

(basic), which I have quoted in my first blog.

Thus following point may be cleared if we fix the event and

development in time scale.

1. Sages have not prepared the original surya sidhaant.

2. Thus our sages were not able to correctly locate the

longitude.

3. Longitude is a subsequent development by Ptolemy.

4. Zodiac of 360 degree and thus calculating the position was

again th creation of Greeks.

5. Signs (rashi) were created by Greeks.

6. Our sages were aware with the constellations (due to

position of Moon)

7. There was no concept of ayanansh, though discovered by

Greeks but not accepted by even Greeks.

But most important point is what was the level of knowledge

irrespective of Indian-Greek tussle at the time of framing of

astrological basic principle (10 points of my first blog).

 

>>>>>>>>Unfortunately you seem to think

that astrological knowledge

is limited to Vishnu Purana and appear to be reluctant to read other

sources of astrological texts.<<<<<<<<

Again No, I am not thinking so. I am referring VP because it was

written by sage parashar. Who was the main founder of astrological

principls (200 BC). Thus it is obvious that astrological principles

must be formulated on the knowledge which he knows and which is well

written in VP. Thus VP or say the then other script may be basis of

formulation and none else (like the concept of Ptolemy,

suryasidhant, Aryabatt, Bhaskaracharya or grahlaghav etc.). In this

situation if we want to modify some concept of sage parashar &

othres

then we must know his concept or we may reject his concept. So

neither we are prepared to know his concept nor we are prepared to

reject his concept. But when we use ayanansh then automatically his

all concept get rejected Or when we use modern astronomical solar

system then too we reject his concept and means his principles.

>>>>>>>> proper definition of what is a planet

and could not even not

understand that Pluto is not a planet till recently<<<<<<<<

Above query was raised on 26-11-2007 which was properly replied and

on that you sent a rejoinder dated 1-12-2007, which was again

replied on 3-12…….. I think you have lost the track as I used to

write a little late due to other preoccupation. But I always reply a

mail which is addressed to me and not the mails between the group

members.

Thanks once again.

Yours

 

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com

(readers may write to me on my email)

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing ,

Chandrashekhar

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Sanat,

>

> I am sure you do not think that Surya siddhant is written after

> Copernicus. If you are confusing the calculation of the degrees of

 

the

> grahas with reference to earth, called drikganita and which is

> calculated by siddhanta, with Sun being proposed to be not at the

center

> of the Surya mandal, that is an unfortunate conclusion that you

are

> drawing.

>

> If you treat the shape of an aeroplane wheel as modification of

the

> principle of wheel, you are free to say what you want about other

> sciences too.

>

> As to proving old principles wrong. Merely saying they are wrong

does

> not prove them to be wrong. Unfortunately you seem to think that

> astrological knowledge is limited to Vishnu Purana and appear to

be

> reluctant to read other sources of astrological texts.

>

> You have not yet replied to my original query as to why when the

modern

> scientists and astronomers whom you are so fond of could not even

devise

> a proper definition of what is a planet and could not even not

> understand that Pluto is not a planet till recently. Since you

obviously

> think that modern astronomy is something better and different than

 

the

> siddhanta of Jyotish and since as you say the old principles are

proven

> wrong, it follows that the modern principles that you are

preaching

must

> be right. Why then did these principles that are so modern fail to

 

> identify whether an astral body is a planet or not for so long?

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> sanat2221 wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

> > Thanks for rejoinder,

> > I will try to answer your points

> >

> > >>>>>>>>science is modern science and

is development of "Primitive

> > knowledge" as you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

> > Primitive knowledge.<<<<<<<<

> >

> > Let me clear some confusion in understanding or explanation.

> > Knowledge is a continuous process. And every knowledge is

modern

so

> > long it is serving the purpose and some new concept is not

developed.

> > But if in the era of modern knowledge (not 21st century but

even

in

> > past) if some one try to push that old concept or some

principles

> > formulated on that old concept which have been proven wrong

then

it

> > is primitive knowledge and we must come out from it.

> >

> > Let me further clear. Principle of Archemidies about the

density

> > though formulated before 200 BC but no body will say that it

is

> > primitive. Because nothing new have been devised. But if you

even

> > want to purchase a 386 or AT/XT computer then every body will

say

it

> > is old and it will not be available though it is mearly 10

years

old.

> > Like wise the concept of every religion or society was that

Earth

is

> > stationary, though there may be various concept (including the

> > concept of Ptolemy who was of the view that Earth is sphere)

but

> > only the concept of stationary Earth was acceptable beyond

doubt.

> > Concept of Indian sages was that Sun is nearer (1lakh yojan

above

or

> > 14.4 Lakh km above the Earth) and Moon is above the Sun,

> > Constellation was above the Moon and below the Mercury and so

 

on .........

> > (refer Vishnu Puran written by sage Parashar who was the

founder

of

> > astrological principles). In this situation how Parashar

could

have

> > developed the astrological principles (predictive) which may

be

based

> > on the modern concept of solar system, which have been proudly

> > included in almost every astrological book in such a way so

that

> > general public may think that astrology is scientific. So it

is

> > astrologers who are befooling general public and some

interested

> > persons take it as hobby and instead of studying the truth

behind

> > it, simply lost in the forest of prediction where they never

find

a

> > single true prediction except some fluke. Businessmen

astrologer

> > are so cunning that they take shelter behind sage or science

> > whichever suits to them.

> >

> > >>>>>>>It appears you think that solar

system was discovered by

> > Copernicus. If this is your view, it maybe better that you

read

more

> > Jyotish books on

> > siddhanta and then advance your theories.<<<<<<<

> >

> > I will like to know about some siddhant which have been

accepted

> > before Copernicus. Please do not forget to intimate me so

that I

may

> > ask Education deptt. to change the chapters accordingly.

> >

> > >>>>>Your assumption about how the sages could

have thought about

a

> > certain concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

> > one.<<<<<<<<

> >

> > Every concept either it may subsequently be right or wrong

can

never

> > be accepted without some logic. Hence I am right in asking as

to

how

> > a principle was devised. If you want to know as to how it was

 

devised

> > within the framework of the then knowledge then I have given

some

> > short hints after every question or you read my book or you

give

> > some logical answer instead of beating the bush on the basis

of

your

> > faith, igonorence and lack of inquisitiveness. Sorrry I do

not

want

> > to hurt your feelings about the primitive concept. But it is

your

> > right to think in any way either by learning/ reading or by

> > believing. But I will say what is the harm in digging any

knowledge.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>am sure you are not aware

that wheel is termed as one of

the

> > greatest invention of ancient times. That is why there is a

saying

> > that you can not reinvent the wheel. it

appe<<<<<<<

> > I have said

> > .........and we must use that wheel in aeroplane because that

 

primitive

> > wheel has not yet been changed and still used by Aadiwasis

whereas

> > wheel used in aeroplane is changing every now and then...........

> > that "we must use that wheel......" here that means which one

was

> > created by ancient people, either it may be bamboo piece or

it may

> > be like a solid wheel or wheel used in bullock cart but none

of

these

> > wheels can be used in Aeroplane, on the plea that wheel of

bullock

> > cart was used by our sages. Thus If sages have the view of

fixed

> > Earth, there is no harm because it was the then knowledge

which

was

> > subsequently modified to solar system after thousands of

years.

> >

> > But still answer to my first blog is still pending. It is

your

right

> > that you may not answer because actually it is not your fault

as

you

> > have not devised the principles but it is correct that you

have

never

> > asked such questions in the wind of prediction. But why don't

you

> > take this new venture to find the truth and serving the

people in

> > that way.

> >

> > Thanks for your valuable comments.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain <Sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com>

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing

 

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

 

Chandrashekhar

> > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanat,

> > >

> > > I do not understand why a changeable definition of basic

 

parameters

> > of a

> > > science is modern science and is development of

"Primitive

> > knowledge" as

> > > you prefer to call it and fixed definitions are

Primitive

knowledge.

> > >

> > > It appears you think that solar system was discovered by

> > Copernicus. If

> > > this is your view, it maybe better that you read more

Jyotish

books

> > on

> > > siddhanta and then advance your theories.

> > >

> > > Your assumption about how the sages could have thought

about a

> > certain

> > > concept is your own view and not necessarily the right

one.

> > >

> > > I do not know your source of information on wheel or its

 

structure

> > but

> > > am sure you are not aware that wheel is termed as one of

the

> > greatest

> > > invention of ancient times. That is why there is a

saying that

you

> > can

> > > not reinvent the wheel. it appears you do not

to that

> > view and

> > > apply engineering principles in a manner not know to

engineers,

> > when you

> > > talk about wheels.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > sanat2221 wrote:

> > > > Dear chandrashekhar ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > Thanks for your some comments but still you are not

answering

the

> > > > many questions raised so far.

> > > >

> > > > You said

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>> ......However if the sages

have not changed their views

of

> > what

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > > should be the definition of graha, for thousands of

years,

are to

> > be

> > > > called primitive.<<<<<<<<

> > > > Yes. What is knowledge. It can never be complete

and what is

> > science.

> > > > Nothing but a continuous and systematic way of

accumulating

the

> > > > knowledge without any blindfaith. That's why

scientific

knowledge

> > or

> > > > we may say knowledge of human being is improving

day-by-day.

But

> > if

> > > > you are sticking to a knowledge without any

explanation like

> > > > primitive society (Aadiwasis who are living in

dense forest

with

> > > > their own concept about the world.) then it will

certainly be

> > > > termed as primitive knowledge. But I never

criticized or

under-

> > > > estimated the knowledge of sages, but their

knowledge was best

> > with

> > > > reference to the then accumulation of knowledge and

concept.

In

> > > > other words I may say that the person who has

devised the

wheel

> > or

> > > > fire with striking the stone is not less then a

scientist.

> > Because he

> > > > derived the best out of the then knowledge. But if

in 21st

> > century

> > > > you start to say that wheel invented by some

intelligent

person

> > (he

> > > > would have been some sage, because a person having

knowledge

was

> > > > termed as sages.) and we must use that wheel in

aeroplane

because

> > > > that primitive wheel has not yet been changed and

still used

by

> > > > Aadiwasis whereas wheel used in aeroplane is

changing every

now

> > and

> > > > then. In the same way if you put sages (other

civilizations

too

> > had

> > > > many intelligent persons in primitive age, but in

Indian

> > > > civilization they were called Rishi, Maharishi and

so on.) in

the

> > > > thread of development of human civilization then

only you can

> > realize

> > > > the importance with reference to the then knowledge

and

> > primitive

> > > > with reference to modern knowledge.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>>> but there is a

difference in the way planet is defined

by

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > western astronomers and the manner in which a graha

is

defined by

> > the

> > > > sages who laid the foundation of Jyotish.

<<<<<<<<<

> > > > Likewise if our sages were of the view that every

movable

thing

> > is

> > > > livingbeing and planet who moves are living being

and deties.

> > Then

> > > > there is no harm. Because it was not possible to

think

otherwise

> > in

> > > > those days. Thus if they termed Sun and Moon as

planets even

> > then

> > > > there is no harm because with the then concept of

planet they

> > move

> > > > hence our sages were right. How do they come to

know that Sun

is

> > a

> > > > star of Earth is sphere. Even if you do not apply

your modern

> > > > knowledge they how do you say that Sun is star of

Earth is

sphere

> > or

> > > > it is moving around the Sun and so on. Thus the

concept of our

> > sages

> > > > were right with reference to the then level of

knowledge and

best

> > > > thinking. Western astronomers has not devised their

own manner

> > of

> > > > defining the planet. But they actually borrowed the

primitive

> > > > knowledge and developed it. Thus after thousands of

years of

> > human

> > > > civilization, Copernicus find the concept of solar

system.

But he

> > was

> > > > so afraid with the mentality of the society ( which

is still

> > > > existing and not willing to accept other then what

ever has

been

> > > > filled in the mind. You can find them very easily)

that he

> > offered

> > > > the concept without his name. He gave the concept

that planet

> > used to

> > > > rotate around the star and Sun is a star, and Earth

is not in

the

> > > > centre of the universe. This concept was seconded

by the

> > Galileo,

> > > > who have to face death, because it was against the

concept of

> > Bible.

> > > > But if he would have been here even then he has to

face the

> > death.

> > > > Because again this concept was against the concept

of sages

and

> > > > religion.

> > > >

> > > > So don,t say that concept of science is different

but it is

only

> > > > modified concept. Thus every knowledge is a part of

 

development

> > > > because in absence of that knowledge (primitive) we

would not

> > have

> > > > gathered so much knowledge. And definetly, modern

knowledge of

> > 21st

> > > > century would be primitive with reference to the

knowledge of

> > 40th

> > > > century. Thus knowledge of sages was important but

we should

not

> > > > catagorised them as super human. Even in primitive

age they

were

> > not

> > > > super because they always tried to learn the

knowledge of

Greek,

> > > > Mesopotamia and so on. Where as we are not prepared

to learn

any

> > > > thing but beating the bush. Sages who formulated

the

principle of

> > > > astrology were only trying their best to know the

destiny with

> > the

> > > > help of presence of deities (grah). So what is

wrong. Every

body

> > > > wants to know. Are scientists are not busy in

finding out the

> > life on

> > > > other planets. But they are doing experiments,

research and so

> > on. In

> > > > the same way when sages could assess the timing of

eclipse

> > (troubles

> > > > on deties and know the way to relieve them by

donation and so

on)

> > > > then why can't they venture to find out the

troubles of King

and

> > > > subsequently of general public. For this they tried

to

formulate

> > some

> > > > principles, and for this they were quite open and

accepted the

> > > > concept of signs, which was not known to them

(sages). Thus

some

> > > > output appears to be correct (psychologically,

which was not

> > known in

> > > > those days). Even in those days astrology

(predictive) was not

> > > > acceptable in sages themselves. Even Manu has

stated in

> > Manusmriti

> > > > that those who talks about astrology (predictive)

must be

> > expelled

> > > > from the gathering of learned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>>>>>>> Since you assume the

two to be identical, not much

purpose

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > will be served in answering your

blog<<<<<<<

> > > > So if you want to say that Sun, Moon, Venus etc. of

the sages

> > were

> > > > different from the Sun, Moon, Venus etc., which we

used to

see,

> > then

> > > > it will be a new theory. I think you will not say

like this.

At

> > the

> > > > most you can say that we may treat the Sun as a

star but it

was

> > > > planet according to the sages. In this regard I

have already

> > > > explained that our sages were not aware with the

concept of

> > solar

> > > > system so they may know which is planet and which

is star. But

> > it

> > > > makes no difference till we take it as a

developmental

process.

> > > >

> > > > I am always giving a detailed reply though much

more remains

left

> > in

> > > > my mind. Now it is upto you as to whether you want

to

continue or

> > not

> > > > and whether you or other member / moderator is

willing to give

> > reply

> > > > of my earlier blog, mails or not (not after reading

my book).

But

> > I

> > > > will continue to reply if there may be slightest

defence or

> > question.

> > > > Otherwise your moderator will say that I provoke

and ran away

> > from

> > > > direct discussion.

> > > >

> > > > Now I can only wait and see for any message from

the group.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sanat

> > > > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > (Reader may directly write to me on my email)

> > > > 3-12-2007

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing

 

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

 

Chandrashekhar

> > > > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Dear Sanat,

> > > >>

> > > >> It is interesting that, in your opinion, though

the modern

day

> > > >> scientists that you adore so much, change the

definition of

what

> > in

> > > >> their view should be termed a planet, their

views are to be

> > taken

> > > >>

> > > > as

> > > >

> > > >> sacrosanct. However if the sages have not

changed their

views of

> > > >>

> > > > what

> > > >

> > > >> should be the definition of graha, for

thousands of years,

are

> > to

> > > >>

> > > > be

> > > >

> > > >> called primitive.

> > > >>

> > > >> I do not want to enter in to mere semantics but

there is a

> > > >>

> > > > difference in

> > > >

> > > >> the way planet is defined by western

astronomers and the

manner

> > in

> > > >>

> > > > which

> > > >

> > > >> a graha is defined by the sages who laid the

foundation of

> > Jyotish.

> > > >> Since you assume the two to be identical, not

much purpose

will

> > be

> > > >> served in answering your blog in the way of

advancing the

> > knowledge

> > > >>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >> astrology which is the purpose of this list.

> > > >>

> > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>> Thanks for your mail.

> > > >>> Though you have not replied the points

raised in my blog.

But

> > you

> > > >>> raised question about Pluto.

> > > >>> I think either you are not aware with the

circumstances as

to

> > why

> > > >>>

> > > > it

> > > >

> > > >>> was treated as planet and why removed from

the group or you

are

> > > >>> checking my knowledge. So let me first gave

short answer to

> > your

> > > >>> question.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was concept in the Primitive age that

every movable body

> > among

> > > >>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>> fixed stars is planet. On the basis of the

then knowledge

and

> > > >>> experience Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars,

Jupiter and

Saturn

> > > >>>

> > > > were

> > > >

> > > >>> treated as planets. Remember Sun and Moon

was treated as

> > planets

> > > >>>

> > > > by

> > > >

> > > >>> our sages and not a star or satellite,

which astrologers are

> > now

> > > >>> propagating in the name of astrology.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On the basis of this definition an orbiting

body Uranus

found

> > by

> > > >>> William Herschel in 1781 was known as a

planet. In

continuity

> > of

> > > >>>

> > > > this

> > > >

> > > >>> discovery, Ceres planet discovered followed

by discoveries

of

> > > >>>

> > > > Pallas,

> > > >

> > > >>> Juno, Vesta, Astraea, Neptune. Clyde Tom

Baugh discovered

Pluto

> > > >>> planet (diameter 2320 km) on 13-3-1930 in

the Kuiper belt,

In

> > > >>>

> > > > 2005,

> > > >

> > > >>> Brown discovered 2003UB313, which was

bigger then Pluto and

it

> > > >>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>> thought to have a proper definition of

planet. Remember that

> > none

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> these planets were discovered by the

astrologers of India,

> > > >>>

> > > > because

> > > >

> > > >>> all of them were busy in befooling the

general public in the

> > name

> > > >>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>> forecast and only on the good name of sages.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> It was defined in 2006 by the union of 9000

astronomers that

> > any

> > > >>> moving body will be planet if it has

cleared other small

bodies

> > > >>> around its orbit. Some planets have not

cleared this third

> > > >>>

> > > > condition

> > > >

> > > >>> hence Pluto including Ceres, Pallas,

Charon, Quaoar, Sedna,

> > Jena

> > > >>>

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > >>> bodies could not be treated as planet and

another category

of

> > > >>>

> > > > Dwarf

> > > >

> > > >>> planet other then star, planet, satellite

was created to

> > > >>>

> > > > accommodate

> > > >

> > > >>> all these orbiting bodies. Now Pluto is

known as Dwarf

planet

> > > >>>

> > > > number

> > > >

> > > >>> 134340. Now according to new definition Sun

has eight

planets

> > > >>> (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter,

Saturn, Uranus, and

> > > >>>

> > > > Neptune).

> > > >

> > > >>> So will you please come forward and

intimate me as to when

are

> > > >>>

> > > > you

> > > >

> > > >>> and other astrologers are going to use

Uranus & Neptune in

> > > >>> Vinshottary dasha, exalted, friendship etc.

again in the

name

> > of

> > > >>> sages.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I think I have given a short brief about

the Pluto. Now I am

> > sure

> > > >>> that you will like to answer my blog point

wise.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Thanks,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Sanat

> > > >>> Sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Vedic Astrologyandhealing

 

> > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>,

 

Chandrashekhar

> > > >>> <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Dear Sanatkumar,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Would you throw some light on why in

the first instance

Pluto

> > > >>>>

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > >>>> classified by the modern and advanced

astronomers as a

planet

> > > >>>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> only

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> recently declassified from that status,

before you question

> > the

> > > >>>> primitive (your words not mine) concept

that gave the

> > > >>>>

> > > > principles,

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> are being used by even those who claim

to have invented new

> > > >>>>

> > > > methods

> > > >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> astrological predictions.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> sanat2221 wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > >>>>> Will you please like to ponder and

instead of sticking to

some

> > > >>>>> misconcept regarding astrology on

which you have not

studied

> > in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> depth

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> but you only have faith, because

you have been informed

like

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> this. So

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> come out and think with open mind

and decide yourself as

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> whether

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> astrology is scientific or is being

given coverup of

science

> > > >>>>>

> > > > due

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> to

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> some vested interest. I do not want

to hurt the

sentiments of

> > > >>>>> astrologers or who are in support

of astrology, but I only

> > want

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> emphasise that if you think that it

is a science then let

us

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> examine

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> it and then there will be no

question of hurting, because

you

> > > >>>>>

> > > > have

> > > >

> > > >>>>> not formulated the principles. But

unfortunately you are

> > > >>>>>

> > > > standing

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> support of it like a lawyer only

due to faith (which has

been

> > > >>>>> infused) and want to conclude like

a judge that astrology

is a

> > > >>>>> science without knowing the story

of other side. I can

> > > >>>>>

> > > > understand

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> problem of astrologer that they

will loose their business

but

> > > >>>>>

> > > > if

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> you

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> are a client then you must have

right to know the truth or

> > call

> > > >>>>>

> > > > an

> > > >

> > > >>>>> astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> At the time of formulating the

astrological principles in

> > early

> > > >>>>> Primitive age, it was the concept

that every living being

has

> > > >>>>> capacity to move, whereas lifeless

thing cannot move. This

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> religious

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> philosophy leads sages to classify

all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Moon,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Mars etc.) as super living being

(Deities). In those days

> > only

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> sages

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> had social sanction to study

religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > >>>>> prolonged observation of the sky

they developed the skill

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> predict

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> solar and lunar eclipse, which was

the result of so-called

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> grabbing

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the Sun and Moon by imaginary

shadow planets Rahu and

Ketu.

> > > >>>>> They were also able to predict the

timing of eclipse and

its

> > > >>>>> duration. They have devised an

ingenious way to offer

> > donations

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> etc.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> to get them free from the clutches

of Rahu and Ketu,

which is

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> still

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> being followed. It was also

religious concept that fate of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> everybody

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> is pre-decided according to their

deeds. Thus in this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > situation,

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> it

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> was common wisdom as to when sages

were able to predict

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fate

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> deities like Sun and Moon then why

they could not predict

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> fate of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> King and so on. Thus procedure was

devised to formulate

> > various

> > > >>>>> astrological principles on the

basis of the then

knowledge of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> sages

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> based on scriptures and their

celestial observation. These

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> principles

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were the key factors for deciding

the fate.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Procedure adopted to formulate

these principles was never

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> percolated

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> in the Indian society due to

illiteracy and hard barrier

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > learn

> > > >

> > > >>>>> such knowledge by other castes.

Subsequently these

principles

> > > >>>>>

> > > > were

> > > >

> > > >>>>> spread to other civilisation and

later on developed as

> > Western

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> system.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> What is happening nowadays that

there are two groups. One

> > group

> > > >>>>> belongs to astrologers who always

try to support astrology

> > due

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> their business considerations

(these astrologers always

try

> > to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fit

> > > >

> > > >>>>> past event very precisely within

some astrological

principle

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> within a

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy

(eclipse etc.) and

faith

> > > >>>>>

> > > > etc.,

> > > >

> > > >>>>> but they are unable to predict any

future event. Because

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrological

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> principles lead to diverse

predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > >>>>> opposite to each other. If by

chance a prediction (in

fluke)

> > > >>>>>

> > > > may

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> come

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> true then they start to harp on the

same prediction and

start

> > > >>>>>

> > > > self

> > > >

> > > >>>>> praising instead of applying the

same socalled principle

on

> > > >>>>>

> > > > other

> > > >

> > > >>>>> horoscopes to see their failure.

Thus astrologer can only

> > > >>>>>

> > > > mislead,

> > > >

> > > >>>>> create confusion, try to cure

`planets' and so on. You can

> > find

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> only this is going on in every

forum), whereas other group

> > (say

> > > >>>>> scientist) try to raise some

logical questions against

> > > >>>>>

> > > > astrology.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> But

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> none of them have ever tried to

investigate as to what was

> > the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> level

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of information of sages about the

Universe, who developed

> > > >>>>> astrological principles in

primitive age and what

procedure

> > was

> > > >>>>> adopted to formulate various

principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > >>>>> Friendship-enmity,

Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

Vinshottary

> > > >>>>> periodicity etc. If we analyse

whole set of principles

then

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> following

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> questions may be raised (basis of

formulation is given in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> subpara).

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 1 What procedure was adopted to

allot twelve signs among

seven

> > > >>>>> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries,

Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> It was based on the concept that

Sun is just above the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > stationary

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and

so on..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 2 What procedure was adopted to

decide that there is

enmity

> > and

> > > >>>>> friendship between some planets (as

Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> > of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> each

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> other) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on the Indian myth of fight

between deities and

demons

> > > >>>>>

> > > > over

> > > >

> > > >>>>> nector after sea-churning...........

> > > >>>>> 3 What procedure was adopted to

decide various aspect

(full,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> quarter

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> to full, half and quarter), (as

planets have full aspect

on

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> seventh

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> house) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on the position of army in

the battle

field...........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 4 What procedure was adopted to

decide that planets are

> > exalted

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> and

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> debilitated at some degree (as Sun

is exalted at 10 deg.

of

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Aries

> > > >

> > > >>>>> sign) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on planetary situation linked

with Sun, when

duration

> > of

> > > >>>>>

> > > > the

> > > >

> > > >>>>> day is more in comparison to

night......

> > > >>>>> 5 What procedure was adopted to

decide that most powerful

and

> > > >>>>>

> > > > hub

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> our solar system, Sun has 6 years

vinshottary dasha

whereas

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Venus

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> (a

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > >>>>> Based on two triangles derived

after working out the

effect of

> > > >>>>> Universe on the basis of lord and

exalted.......

> > > >>>>> 6 What procedure was adopted to

allot various

constellations

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> between

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> nine planets with different

vinshottary dasha ?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Kratica was first constellation in

Indian

scriptures..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 7 What procedure was adopted to

decide order of days of a

week

> > > >>>>> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > >>>>> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati

(Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> structure

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of Universe where Sun is nearer and

Moon is far away.....

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> 8 What procedure was adopted to

decide fixed retrograde

> > motion

> > > >>>>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per

day)?

> > > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of

eclipse.....

> > > >>>>> 9 What procedure was adopted to

decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> > 180

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deg.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> apart?

> > > >>>>> On the basis of recurrence of

eclipse...........

> > > >>>>> 10 What procedure was adopted to

decide timings of

eclipse ?

> > > >>>>> Repetition of eclipse after fixed

constellation

> > month..........

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Thus there may be endless

questions, with a final

question as

> > to

> > > >>>>> whether present form of astrology

is correct? If some one

gave

> > > >>>>> answers to these questions then he

will realise that

entire

> > > >>>>> astrological principles are totally

based on wrong

concept of

> > > >>>>> Universe.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Everybody may agree that every

research is based on the

then

> > > >>>>> knowledge. In the same way, when

astrology was developed

by

> > sage

> > > >>>>> Parashar etc. At that time it was

believed that Earth is

in

> > the

> > > >>>>> centre of the Universe and

stationary (it is also

believed in

> > > >>>>>

> > > > all

> > > >

> > > >>>>> religions). Beside this it was also

believed (you may read

> > any

> > > >>>>>

> > > > old

> > > >

> > > >>>>> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from

the Earth, whereas

Moon

> > is

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> beyond

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Sun. All constellations are

situated in between Mercury

and

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Moon.

> > > >

> > > >>>>> You may be surprised to know that

all astrological

principles

> > > >>>>>

> > > > are

> > > >

> > > >>>>> actually fabricated around this

concept. I my-self

studying

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrology

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> since last 35 years and developed

softwares to conclude

> > correct

> > > >>>>> prediction. But if it is true at

one time then same

> > combination

> > > >>>>>

> > > > is

> > > >

> > > >>>>> not true in other case. It leads me

to think afresh

logically

> > > >>>>>

> > > > and

> > > >

> > > >>>>> systematically over this subject

and I find that Primitive

> > > >>>>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>>>> (when astrology was developed)

requires full overhauling

in

> > > >>>>>

> > > > view

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> modern scientific astronomy,

according to which primitive

> > > >>>>>

> > > > concept

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Universe (basis of astrology) was

totally changed.

> > > >>>>> After lot of research I wrote an

original book on

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astrology "Jyotish -

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi

(330 pages). This book

> > > >>>>>

> > > > contains

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> detailed procedure adopted to

formulate these principles

on

> > the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> basis

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of the then knowledge about the

Universe, which leads our

> > sages

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>> formulate these principles. This

book was also published

in

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> English

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> with the title "Astrology a science

or myth" (450 pages).

You

> > > >>>>>

> > > > can

> > > >

> > > >>>>> realize that this is revolutionary

book and will change

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > > face

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> predictive astrology in due course.

If you interested to

know

> > > >>>>>

> > > > more

> > > >

> > > >>>>> about the book or description of

various chapters then you

> > may

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> send

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> email to me. The book is being

marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > >>>>> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

 

> > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> produktID=1759836

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

 

> > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?>

> > produktID=1759836>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 20kumar%

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 20kumar%>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

 

> > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > >>>>> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

 

> > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>>

> > > >>>>> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> At that time our sages were neither

aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> > > >>>>>

> > > > nor

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> they

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were aware that solar and lunar

eclipses occurred due to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > presence

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's

why they have developed

the

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> concept

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde

motion of 3'11". It was

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> mentioned in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the Grahlaghav that eclipse

occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > within

> > > >>>>>

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > >>>>> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or

Puranmashi (full Moon).

> > But

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> nobody

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> will be able to answer that why

there was no lunar eclipse

> > when

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Sun,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01

and 34.43 degree

> > > >>>>>

> > > > respectively

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> on

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42

degree) or when Sun,

Moon

> > and

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Ketu

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26

degree respectively on

03-

> > 03-

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 1988 (

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Ketu was within 10.52 degree).

Likewise I find that Solar

> > > >>>>>

> > > > eclipses

> > > >

> > > >>>>> occurred even when difference

between Moon and Rahu was

more

> > > >>>>>

> > > > then

> > > >

> > > >>>>> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24

deg., whereas Rahu was at

> > 79.04

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deg.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg.

away). Sun and Moon

were

> > at

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> 76.49

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93

deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> > > >>>>>

> > > > 15.14

> > > >

> > > >>>>> deg. away).

> > > >>>>> To give a modern scientific colour

to the astrology, you

will

> > > >>>>>

> > > > also

> > > >

> > > >>>>> find in many modern astrological

books that eclipse

occurred

> > at

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> the

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> intersection point of orbit of the

Sun and Moon (though it

> > was

> > > >>>>>

> > > > not

> > > >

> > > >>>>> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu

were created on the

basis of

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> myth).

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Thus it is clear that at the time

of full solar eclipse,

when

> > > >>>>>

> > > > Moon

> > > >

> > > >>>>> happens to be just over the Sun

than Rahu must also be

there.

> > > >>>>>

> > > > But

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> As

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194

and 177 degree on 12-11-

> > 1985

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> and 3-

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> 10-1986 (refer any almanac)

respectively when there were

full

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> solar

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon

were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > >>>>> respectively. You will agree that

when there were full

solar

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> eclipses

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> then on these dates either Rahu or

Ketu must be at 206 and

> > 166

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> degree

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> respectively, because only then

full solar eclipse may

> > possible.

> > > >>>>> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194

and 177 degrees in

> > almanac.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Thus

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> there was clear mistake of about 12

and 11 degrees

> > > >>>>>

> > > > respectively.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> All

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> horoscopes are defective in this

light and due to this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > fundamental

> > > >

> > > >>>>> positional variation, prediction is

also effected. If you

> > want

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> then I

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> can give many more examples and

very simple method of

> > detecting

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> them.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> I fully support that astrology

(predictive) is not a

science

> > > >>>>>

> > > > but

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> in

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> primitive age predictive astrology

was a mixture of

astronomy

> > +

> > > >>>>> psychology + faith. Because

astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > > >>>>> (recently discovered and it was not

known in primitive

age)

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> played an

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> important role in handling a person

by the astrologer due

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> immense

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> faith over astrology+astrologer

hence predictive astrology

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> appears to

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> be correct due to combined effect

of all three. You will

also

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> agree

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> with the above observation after

going through my original

> > > >>>>> revolutionary research. Because if

everything is pre-

decided

> > as

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> was

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> contention of sages then why we may

take pains, why we may

> > try

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> do

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> some thing, because every thing

will take place according

to

> > > >>>>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>>>> written destiny. Secondly, there is

no question of

modifying

> > > >>>>>

> > > > that

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> pre-

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> written destiny, because if we try

to change only our

fate,

> > > >>>>>

> > > > even

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> then

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> all attached happening will

automatically change creating

a

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> cascading

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> effect, which in turn will change

the pre-written fate of

> > every

> > > >>>>> person. In another case, if destiny

is not pre-written or

say

> > > >>>>>

> > > > pre-

> > > >

> > > >>>>> defined than it is not possible to

detect it. Because when

> > > >>>>>

> > > > every

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Tom,

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Dick and Harry are changing their

destiny due to worship,

> > good

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> deed

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> etc. then destiny of every one will

continue remain under

> > > >>>>>

> > > > change.

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> You

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> will agree that astrology is

totally based on mathematical

> > > >>>>> calculation regarding planets,

whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> never

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> and never be altered. Now when

transit or birth chart

cannot

> > be

> > > >>>>> altered it means result of

calculation or say prediction

is

> > also

> > > >>>>> fixed. Then how one may change his

destiny (if it is ever

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> prewritten)

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> by adopting some means like

offering, ring, vastu etc.

> > because

> > > >>>>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>>>> that case, if you like to say, then

future events will be

> > > >>>>>

> > > > altered

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> but

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> how a calculation of planetary

transit or linked

prediction

> > can

> > > >>>>>

> > > > be

> > > >

> > > >>>>> changed, which is fixed due to

birth chart or fixed

transit of

> > > >>>>> planets?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Those who think that astrology is a

science may be rest

> > assured

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> that

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> actually predictive astrology is

not a science at all.

Only

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> astronomy

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> and psychology (discovered only in

last 200 years) were

used

> > > >>>>> unknowingly by our sages for some

prediction and it

appears

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> correct.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Hence predictive astrology is bogus

and astrology is a

myth.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> Still if

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> you have a faith on astrology then

why don't you contact

The

> > > >>>>>

> > > > James

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Randi Educational Foundation who

offeres a US $1000000

prize

> > to

> > > >>>>> anyone who can demonstrate that

astrology works. His e-

mail

> > and

> > > >>>>> website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org>

and

> > > >>>>> http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org>

 

> > <http://www.randi.org

<http://www.randi.org>>

Because modern

> > > >>>>> technologies like computer, TV,

Newspaper etc. are being

used

> > to

> > > >>>>> spread this myth in the cover up of

science with vested

> > business

> > > >>>>> interest. Hence it requires a

logical approach to fight

this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > sort

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> ignorance. My book has vital

scientific information in

this

> > > >>>>>

> > > > regard

> > > >

> > > >>>>> and readers of the book are fully

convinced that astrology

> > > >>>>> (predictive) is bogus, because

procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > >>>>> principles was neither logical nor

based on correct

> > information

> > > >>>>>

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > >>>>> Universe, solar system.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I will like to have your critical

comments for further

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> interaction on

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > >>>>> <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com>

.. It would be

> > better

> > > >>>>>

> > > > to

> > > >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> know

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> the roots of astrology and facts,

data behind it before

> > falling

> > > >>>>>

> > > > in

> > > >

> > > >>>>> the trap and come forward to join

hands because of AIDS

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>> (Astrology Is

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>> Damaging Society).

> > > >>>>> Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > >>>>> Gwalior

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Reader may directly write to me on

my email instead of

> > creating

> > > >>>>> problems to moderator

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Listen Mr. Sanat,

 

Come for a proper debate, Stick to ur point that astroogy is not a

science, Dont show ur smartness by this kind of mails.

 

I m very serious to put an end to ur stupid mission to defame

astrology, and i know how to do it, u cant imagine my seriousness.

 

My dear old friend, we are not teaching u topics/rsearches of the

astrology, so dont display what u understand or what u dont

undestand, if u dont understand what i cut and pasted to increse ur

understanding about Jupitor's karaktwa, that's ur problem.

 

Do u have courage to begin a debate with me from the beginning ?

 

Put in ur blog that u r debating with me ..

 

First, I want a sorry from u, then i will teach u the basics of

astrology.

 

~Lalit.

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit Ji,

> Namaskar,

> Thanks for your mail of 16th , Though I decided not to answer your

> mail because you are neither serious, nor inquisitive nor have

> knowledge but you can only use filty language with blindfaith,

> without any answer on my blog. But now you have come out with a

> somewhat pointed argument on my subsequent mails. Hence I am

> answering you. And I think that if I am able to lit inquisitive and

> correct logig in your mind then you may be a gem.

>

> >>>>>>>>1. If Jupitor has got planets in it's 12'th and 2nd from

it's

> placement , the person himself is certainly not the eldest among

the

> siblings, he is the one middle born. Mr. ramkrishna has also

> identified the cases of exceptions to this corollary

> 2. The person has siblings.<<<<<<<

> What are those exceptions. Let me know first. Otheriwise you will

> say that it is exception.

>

> >>>>>>>>3. If there is no planet in 12'th and 2nd to Jupitor, The

> person is

> only child. In ideal cases the compliance is 51+%, however, if,

> retrogression, exaltation, mooltrikona, aspects, afflictions and

> debilitation, friendly and enemic signs are also included, the

> compliance is 93% of the sample horoscopes.<<<<<

> Either you clarify as to how retrogression, exaltation,

mooltrikona,

> aspects, afflictions and

> debilitation, friendly and enemic signs are to be included

otherwise

> there is no sense.

> Because it is based on wrong sampling method. You cant say that

all

> patients can be cured by drinking water. Or they are cured by the

so

> and so position of planets then it is wrong sampling. Better you

ask

> some statician as to how sampling is done.

> Let us take your first point which says

> >>>>If Jupitor has got planets in it's 12'th and 2nd from it's

> placement , the person himself is certainly not the eldest among

the

> siblings,<<<<

> Do you know that from 23-8-2001 to 14-5-2005 (and I can give you

> many dates) Saturn was 12th from Jupiter. So do you want to say

that

> during these 9 months there was no first delivery so that he may

be

> eldest. What a funny rule and logic on which you claim. Your other

> rules are also like these. Now don't take back seat. And better

> apply your own mind and logic before supporting any rule.

>

> Though this time you have done some cut and paste labour hence I

> will answer your these points too raised in another mail.

>

> Birth of Male or Female children

> >>>>>1. In a query relating to pregnancy, if the ascendant falls in

a

> fixed sign and is aspected by benefics it should be told that the

> woman is surely pregnant - This is the opinion of

Yavanacharya.<<<<<<<

>

> Do you think she may not ask the question when it is not a fixed

> ascendant, which are only four that means she/he may not ask the

> question in remaining 16 hours (every ascendant has duration of

> hours).

>

> >>>>2. If Saturn occupies an odd sign, he causes the birth of a

son.

> If he occupies an even sign, he causes the birth of a girl - Thus

it

> has been told by Brihaspati, the great celestial astrologer.<<<<<<<

> Again do you know that Saturn was transiting in Cancer sign (even

> sign) since 26-5-2005 and it was in this sign till 31-10-2006. So

> according to your socalled strong logic you want every body to

> believe that there was no birth of a son and every birth is a girl.

>

> >>>>>>3. If the ascendant falls in a number of male vargas (rasi,

> drekkana,navamsa, dwadasamsa etc., are owned by a male planet) and

be

> strongly

> aspected by male planets, surely a son will be born. If the query

> concerns marriage the girl will surely get a good bridegroom<<<<<<

>

> Fix the rule of (rasi, drekkana,navamsa, dwadasamsa etc.,) then I

> will answer.

>

> >>>>4. Yavanacharya has declared that if the ascendant falls on a

> female sign, or female Navamsa or female Drekkana and is not

aspected

> by any male planet a girl child will be born.<<<<<

>

> What will be the result if asc. Falls on female sign and male

navansh

> and so on. Thus first fix the rule.

>

> >>>>>5. If the ascendant, Jupiter and the Moon be placed in odd

signs

> and in the signs and Navamsas owned by male planets and be endowed

> with strength, a son will be born. If these are placed in an even

> sign and the Navamsas owned by female planets, a girl will be

> born<<<<<<

>

> Jupiter remains in a sign (even or odd) for more then a year

hence

> after applying this rule do you think that there is only male birth

> for a full year and then a female birth for a year.

>

> >>>>>>>. If Jupiter and the Sun be in an odd sign, birth of a son

is

> to be predicted. <<<<<

>

> Do you think that during 20-10-2006 to 16-11-2006 when Jup and Sun

> were in odd sign Libra, there was no birth of daughter.

>

> >>>>>>> 6. The number of nurses attending the lady during delivery

> will be equal

> to the number of planets placed between the ascendant and Moon.

> <<<<<<<

> Do you think there may be no lady if Moon is in ascendant Or there

> may not be more then 8 lady (including Rahu/ketu) in any delivery.

>

> >>>>>So many nurses will be outside the delivery room as there are

> planets in the visible half of the zodiac and so many will be

inside

> as there are planets in the invisible half.<<<<

>

> Again do you want dates when there is no planet in invisible

half

> hence there will be no lady .

>

> I think it is enough and their is no substance in your

principles

> on which you have immense faith. That's why I was asking in my

first

> blog as to whether principles are right and to know this you have

to

> know as to how they were formulated.

>

> Now it is up to you as to whether you are willing to apply your

mind

> or not.

>

> Thanks

> Yours,

>

> Sanat

> Sanatkumar_jain

>

[Guest guest]

Various foolish things u attempted in ur post, one example -

 

I posted this -

" >>>>If Jupitor has got planets in it's 12'th and 2nd from it's

placement , the person himself is certainly not the eldest among the

siblings,<<<<

 

You said this -

Do you know that from 23-8-2001 to 14-5-2005 (and I can give you

many dates) Saturn was 12th from Jupiter. So do you want to say that

during these 9 months there was no first delivery so that he may be

eldest.

 

Now I Say - " Go and Find ur samples to prove ur doubts right, What i

had, I gave, Where are ur sample data? It's not my duty to remove ur

confusion or to teach u, i m here to prove u wrong, that's it, So,

give some birth data of the first delivery in the case raised by you,

Without ur sample data, putting nonsense doubts shows ur stupidity

and dishonsty to the debate, in a debate, u cant question anything

without data, How can u .. right " .

 

Now, get my comments on the comments that u made on me -

 

Saying following is a sample of the ur funny mind that u do have,

 

You said - " What a funny rule and logic on which you claim. Your other

rules are also like these. Now don't take back seat. And better

apply your own mind and logic before supporting any rule " .

 

 

First learn how to debate on a toic, U r debating with a person who

has been state winner of ur own state, MP.

 

right !

 

~Lalit.

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

<litsol wrote:

>

> Listen Mr. Sanat,

>

> Come for a proper debate, Stick to ur point that astroogy is not a

> science, Dont show ur smartness by this kind of mails.

>

> I m very serious to put an end to ur stupid mission to defame

> astrology, and i know how to do it, u cant imagine my seriousness.

>

> My dear old friend, we are not teaching u topics/rsearches of the

> astrology, so dont display what u understand or what u dont

> undestand, if u dont understand what i cut and pasted to increse ur

> understanding about Jupitor's karaktwa, that's ur problem.

>

> Do u have courage to begin a debate with me from the beginning ?

>

> Put in ur blog that u r debating with me ..

>

> First, I want a sorry from u, then i will teach u the basics of

> astrology.

>

> ~Lalit.

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit Ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your mail of 16th , Though I decided not to answer

your

> > mail because you are neither serious, nor inquisitive nor have

> > knowledge but you can only use filty language with blindfaith,

> > without any answer on my blog. But now you have come out with a

> > somewhat pointed argument on my subsequent mails. Hence I am

> > answering you. And I think that if I am able to lit inquisitive

and

> > correct logig in your mind then you may be a gem.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>1. If Jupitor has got planets in it's 12'th and 2nd from

> it's

> > placement , the person himself is certainly not the eldest among

> the

> > siblings, he is the one middle born. Mr. ramkrishna has also

> > identified the cases of exceptions to this corollary

> > 2. The person has siblings.<<<<<<<

> > What are those exceptions. Let me know first. Otheriwise you

will

> > say that it is exception.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>3. If there is no planet in 12'th and 2nd to Jupitor, The

> > person is

> > only child. In ideal cases the compliance is 51+%, however, if,

> > retrogression, exaltation, mooltrikona, aspects, afflictions and

> > debilitation, friendly and enemic signs are also included, the

> > compliance is 93% of the sample horoscopes.<<<<<

> > Either you clarify as to how retrogression, exaltation,

> mooltrikona,

> > aspects, afflictions and

> > debilitation, friendly and enemic signs are to be included

> otherwise

> > there is no sense.

> > Because it is based on wrong sampling method. You cant say that

> all

> > patients can be cured by drinking water. Or they are cured by the

> so

> > and so position of planets then it is wrong sampling. Better you

> ask

> > some statician as to how sampling is done.

> > Let us take your first point which says

> > >>>>If Jupitor has got planets in it's 12'th and 2nd from it's

> > placement , the person himself is certainly not the eldest among

> the

> > siblings,<<<<

> > Do you know that from 23-8-2001 to 14-5-2005 (and I can give you

> > many dates) Saturn was 12th from Jupiter. So do you want to say

> that

> > during these 9 months there was no first delivery so that he may

> be

> > eldest. What a funny rule and logic on which you claim. Your

other

> > rules are also like these. Now don't take back seat. And better

> > apply your own mind and logic before supporting any rule.

> >

> > Though this time you have done some cut and paste labour hence

I

> > will answer your these points too raised in another mail.

> >

> > Birth of Male or Female children

> > >>>>>1. In a query relating to pregnancy, if the ascendant falls

in

> a

> > fixed sign and is aspected by benefics it should be told that the

> > woman is surely pregnant - This is the opinion of

> Yavanacharya.<<<<<<<

> >

> > Do you think she may not ask the question when it is not a fixed

> > ascendant, which are only four that means she/he may not ask the

> > question in remaining 16 hours (every ascendant has duration of

> > hours).

> >

> > >>>>2. If Saturn occupies an odd sign, he causes the birth of a

> son.

> > If he occupies an even sign, he causes the birth of a girl - Thus

> it

> > has been told by Brihaspati, the great celestial

astrologer.<<<<<<<

> > Again do you know that Saturn was transiting in Cancer sign (even

> > sign) since 26-5-2005 and it was in this sign till 31-10-2006. So

> > according to your socalled strong logic you want every body to

> > believe that there was no birth of a son and every birth is a

girl.

> >

> > >>>>>>3. If the ascendant falls in a number of male vargas (rasi,

> > drekkana,navamsa, dwadasamsa etc., are owned by a male planet)

and

> be

> > strongly

> > aspected by male planets, surely a son will be born. If the query

> > concerns marriage the girl will surely get a good bridegroom<<<<<<

> >

> > Fix the rule of (rasi, drekkana,navamsa, dwadasamsa etc.,) then I

> > will answer.

> >

> > >>>>4. Yavanacharya has declared that if the ascendant falls on a

> > female sign, or female Navamsa or female Drekkana and is not

> aspected

> > by any male planet a girl child will be born.<<<<<

> >

> > What will be the result if asc. Falls on female sign and male

> navansh

> > and so on. Thus first fix the rule.

> >

> > >>>>>5. If the ascendant, Jupiter and the Moon be placed in odd

> signs

> > and in the signs and Navamsas owned by male planets and be

endowed

> > with strength, a son will be born. If these are placed in an even

> > sign and the Navamsas owned by female planets, a girl will be

> > born<<<<<<

> >

> > Jupiter remains in a sign (even or odd) for more then a year

> hence

> > after applying this rule do you think that there is only male

birth

> > for a full year and then a female birth for a year.

> >

> > >>>>>>>. If Jupiter and the Sun be in an odd sign, birth of a son

> is

> > to be predicted. <<<<<

> >

> > Do you think that during 20-10-2006 to 16-11-2006 when Jup and

Sun

> > were in odd sign Libra, there was no birth of daughter.

> >

> > >>>>>>> 6. The number of nurses attending the lady during

delivery

> > will be equal

> > to the number of planets placed between the ascendant and Moon.

> > <<<<<<<

> > Do you think there may be no lady if Moon is in ascendant Or

there

> > may not be more then 8 lady (including Rahu/ketu) in any

delivery.

> >

> > >>>>>So many nurses will be outside the delivery room as there

are

> > planets in the visible half of the zodiac and so many will be

> inside

> > as there are planets in the invisible half.<<<<

> >

> > Again do you want dates when there is no planet in invisible

> half

> > hence there will be no lady .

> >

> > I think it is enough and their is no substance in your

> principles

> > on which you have immense faith. That's why I was asking in my

> first

> > blog as to whether principles are right and to know this you

have

> to

> > know as to how they were formulated.

> >

> > Now it is up to you as to whether you are willing to apply your

> mind

> > or not.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Yours,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain@

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

 

 

Resp Ron,

Thanks for your comments.

At least thanks for admitting that Hindu (vedic) and western and KP

systems are not working correctly. Hence you have left them and

adopted a new Khullar system.

 

Khullar system is a mixture of Hindu and KP system; whereas KP system

is a mixture of Hindu and Western system. So indirectly Khullar

system has adopted a way of old wine in new bottle. I have also tried

to fuse these both systems in many ways and result of fusion may be

seen in `Eskain horoscope' in file section. But again like head and

tail of a coin, some prediction may right randomly but same

combination is not working in another horoscope. It will take some

more time to you to realize that this system is also not working.

Because basic building block of this system too, like all others, is

based on sign, sign lord, cusp (which is a reverse copy of

Vinshottary dasha " ), friendship, exalted etc. Until unless these

building blocks of predictive astrology may have some scientific or

logical theory behind them till then how you can say that some thing

can be predicted. Because only that event can be predicted which is

predestined and take your time to realize / think that even if a

single event of future of any one life is fixed then whole sequence

of event of the life may automatically be fixed. This in turn may fix

the sequence of event of other life. Thus whole set up will be fixed.

Then where is the use of knowing the future or where is the scope of

amending any unpleasant event.

 

You have mentioned an event of

>>>>>>> one practitioner looked at his mother's chart, and saw that

she

was likely to die the following day even though she had no known

problems. He packed his family into the car and went long

distance across country to his mother's house. She appeared

fine, but the following day she died as indicated.<<<<<<<<<<. In this

connection I will like to say that every predictive system either it

may be astrology or KP system, Western system, Magi system, Lal

kitab, numerology, Terro card, palmistry, Nadi shastra, face

reading, signature reading, Vaastu, and so on have so many stories to

tell but none of them is correct and all of them are psychologically

correct or randomly correct. Thus there is no logic in believing any

random forecast to amend our plan, decision in any respect. etc. If

above story of death of mother is right in your opinion then the

combination in horoscope by which death may be known would have been

published in scientific journal and Khullar himself would have been

appointed as chief boss of all Insurance companies to see as to

whether life insurance of a person may be done or not. Thus you can

see that only a single forecast based on combination of planets may

lead to flow of money then what would happen if a system (khullar)

would have been correct in many respect ie. It may tell about job,

promotion, illness, health and so on. You may please intimate the

planetary cuspal combination of the horoscope by which death was

decoded for the benefit of the members of the forum, who may take

benefit of such a combination and get insured. Do not take it

otherwise, I am seriously requesting you and if you don't have that

combination then you may intimate some other combination, or you may

check yourself the viability of the system and get rid off.

 

Our basic question is still pending that so long any one is not able

to know that how basic building block of predictive astrology (sign

lord etc. ) were formulated and whether procedure adopted has some

scientific or logical approach till then we all are bound to fall in

one or another trap. I am saying so that I find (not to say after how

much labour) that all predictive principles were formulated on

primitive myth, knowledge, tradition etc. and thus these principles

have no logical or scientific support in view of modern knowledge. If

Hindu (so called vedic) astrology would have been correct then what

was the need to modify it as western and in turn as KP system and in

turn as Khullar system and what was the need to create so many other

systems like palmistry etc. It is not for improving an existing

system, otherwise all previous systems would have been buried and

some new correct system would have been survived and in turn every

one would have been realized as to how our ole astrologer were wrong.

But you can see that every system is going on, because every system

has some business and followers. But you are right that after

realizing some mistake you have jumped to some new system and it is

correct way of analyzing a system, because you may not be a

practitioner astrologer. Otherwise you may have stick to any one

system and anyhow support that system like many astrologers.

 

Thus you were initially right when you think :

>>>>>>> Let me say that at the outset I was extremely doubtful about

the

system. Here was an author who used a specific house system.

specific ayanamsa, geocentric rather than geophysical positions,

a specific dasa system, etc, all of which I had unsuccessfully

tried to ascertain myself over the years. I wondered how any

one person could get all of these exactly right to get correct

answers enough to create a valid system. Weary after being led

up the garden path so many times, I was doubtful about wasting

time at my age to attempt to learn the system. However, the

success of Khullar students in our Blind Chart tests made me

eager see why they were successful.<<<<

and now no need to go for blind chart, you may check and announce

when Osama will die or likewise some other definite prediction about

any one in the world and continue to serve many Govt.

 

Hope to receive some tested principles of khullar for definite

prediction, which may not have some psychological mixture for the

larger benefit of the members.

 

Thanks,

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

 

 

 

 

 

, " rongaunt@ au "

<rongaunt@> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Sanat,

>

> I respond to the extracted part of your message where you say:

>

> 'So instead of falling in an another trap by Khullar, you must

> find out the procedure as to how all basic principles were

> formulated and is their any scientific logic (in view of modern

> knowledge) or not.'

>

> Now this is a most scientific approach you have taken!! You have

> obviously already taken the stance that Mr Khullar's work is

> bogus or you would not say 'falling into another trap by

> Khullar'.

>

> I have serious doubts that you have studied his work at all,

> never mind being intimately aquatinted with it. So your

> unfounded prejudice for a scientific observer is obvious for all

> to see, and is clearly hypocritical if you have not studied the

> subject. I think most would agree your approach here at least is

> MOST UNSCIENTIFIC.

>

> For your information the Khullar system is by far the most

> scientific of all astrology I have come across. Mr Khullar

> examined in detail both Western and Hindu astrology. He took

> much from the traditions of the Hindus, and from Nadi astrology.

> He went right to the source of their ideas and worked out

> exactly why they were quoting certain important slokas. He

> then incorporated these ideas into a major advancement on the KP

> system using cuspal interlinks.

>

> I personally gave up believing authors have all (or even) some of

> the answers all of the time, so I thoroughly check everything

> stated. If I find a system not working as stated even once I

> start having reservations. When I see it doesn't work quite a

> few times I discard it. I have not been able to do this with

> the Khullar system because it does work.

>

> Let me say that at the outset I was extremely doubtful about the

> system. Here was an author who used a specific house system.

> specific ayanamsa, geocentric rather than geophysical positions,

> a specific dasa system, etc, all of which I had unsuccessfully

> tried to ascertain myself over the years. I wondered how any

> one person could get all of these exactly right to get correct

> answers enough to create a valid system. Weary after being led

> up the garden path so many times, I was doubtful about wasting

> time at my age to attempt to learn the system. However, the

> success of Khullar students in our Blind Chart tests made me

> eager see why they were successful.

>

> I think any experienced astrologer would agree that even if you

> ask a number of astrologers - all following the same system -

> to assess or predict for an event they will invariably all come

> up with a different answer.

>

> This does not happen in KCIL because all charts are rectified by

> strict criteria, and invariably all students come up with the

> same rectified chart. They all assess the event to get the

> same answer because the cuspal interlinks are specific to the

> chart and the rules are clearly laid down. This is extremely

> scientific astrology.

>

> Apart from success in Blind Charts there has been extremely good

> predictions ie births to the day and a narrow time frame. Also

> one practitioner looked at his mother's chart, and saw that she

> was likely to die the following day even though she had no known

> problems. He packed his family into the car and went long

> distance across country to his mother's house. She appeared

> fine, but the following day she died as indicated. How many

> astrologers using other systems would be sufficiently confident

> to do this?

>

> We have seen other things which validate the system, such as

> Mr Khullar declaring that a certain person could not have been

> born in a certain part of city because the events of the life and

> family connections did not line up in regard to the relevant

> house cusps. He then stated where the person was likely to have

> been born. Checking with the native the position chosen was

> almost spot on. There are many other reasons that indicate

> that the system does work.

>

> So Sanat, first study this system in detail then pronounce on

> it, that is the truly scientific way. Your opinion may then

> carry some weight but until then it is difficult for anyone to

> take your opinions (at least on this matter) seriously.

>

>

> Ron Gaunt

>

>

>

>

> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:13:14 -0000, you wrote:

>

> >Dear Ron,

> >Welcome in the forum for your first msg.

> >You have good knowledge of astrology, still you are not convinced

> >with any system and advocating an another Khullar system. I am

> >reproducing your stand

> >

> >>>>>>>>Again most do not realise that it is possible to see

anything

> >and everything you want to see after the event with ANY and EVERY

> >system, due to the enormous number of permutations.

> >I think I have looked at just about every astrological system and

> >method going, and frankly most of them do not work at all, and

others

> >do not give consistently good results. <<<<<<<<<<<

> >

> >against you. Because it makes no difference as to whether we are

> >linking any past event with some principles or we are linking

future

> >prediction with our psychology. If I will say your next month is

not

> >good and you have faith on predictive astrology, then every

> >psychological odd in next month will be linked with this

prediction

> >and in sub-conscious mind you may bent upon to think that

astrology

> >is correct. So it has no relevancy at all.

> >

> >We in India are being befooled and cheated by astrologers since

2000

> >years without knowing that sign was devised by Greeks and adopted

by

> >us without any religious support. Because mass population always

> >remains uneducated and educated lot are being lured by crowd of

heads

> >on shoulders (without knowing that their heads are empty in this

> >respect) who follows some traditions. Cunning or ignorant

astrologers

> >after reading some latest books on astrology, full with praise of

> >sages and latest data of solar system thinks (and propagate) that

our

> >sages were well known with modern data. Thus they are able to

befool

> >ignorant public in the name of Ved, Sage, Myth and so on with the

> >help of Media and publicity.

> >

> >Bare fact is this that our sages were very logical and open to all

> >sort of logical knowledge (which can not be questioned). They were

> >very clear when they appreciate the knowledge of Greeks because

they

> >were of the opinion " tamso ma jyotirgamay " means we must go ahead

> >towards knowledge from ignorance. For the purpose of knowledge

they

> >were following " Vasudevam kutumbkam " means whole world is a

family.

> >Thus they adopted sign system and other knowledge from Greeks and

> >mixed it with our constellational system and religious concept of

> >formation of universe. Thus our sages formulated basic principles

> >like sign lord, aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha and so on

(refer

> >my book in Hindi or in English for detailed procedure etc.), by

which

> >they were able to forecast some thing which happens to be true

> >(psychologically, and this phenomena was not known till 18th

> >century). Thus Greeks then Romans adopted these principles and

> >subsequently slightly modified (aspect) as Western system, whereas

> >sign lord etc are same. As we Indians are not aware that concept

of

> >sign belongs to Greek / Babylonia likewise Western countries are

not

> >aware that sign lord etc. principles were formulated by our sages

on

> >the basis of religious myth that Earth is stationary, Sun is

nearer

> >then Moon, all constellation are just above Moon and so on. In

this

> >way where we Indians are being befooled in the name of Ved, sages;

> >likewise western countries were being befooled that predictive

> >principals were formulated by Ptolemy and now everyone is after

> >socalled " Vedic astrology " without knowing that there is no

> >predictive astrology in Ved. Thus predictive astrology is merely a

> >psychological game like magic. We must enjoy this game but must

not

> >be lured like a fool who may be lured by creation of currency

notes

> >from a box by a magician and left his job in the hope to create

note

> >from that box.

> >

> >So instead of falling in an another trap by Khullar, you must find

> >out the procedure as to how all basic principles were formulated

and

> >is their any scientific logic (in view of modern knowledge) or

not.

> >

> >Some points were discussed in brief (refer SOA_______ files in

file

> >section) because followers of astrology, could not stand after

> >raising very simple arguments and further discussion could not be

> >done. I hope that after +35 years of experience you may like to

> >discuss on any point.

> >

> >Thanks,

> >Yours truly,

> >Sanat

> >

> >PS: Sh. Razdan Ji, Ghopal Ji, vinvj and Jagannathan Ji may please

> >come forward with reply on my comments. Silence is not a solution.

> >Silently reading is also not a solution. When we are in a forum

then

> >either we must educate other members or may improve our knowledge.

> >Remaining " as it is " is not a good sign. For improvement we must

have

> >inquisitive mind. I am ready to learn from expert astrologers but

not

> >as blind supporter. If Astrology is science then it must cross all

> >questions and must have logical answers to all sort of doubt.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " rongaunt@ au "

> ><rongaunt@> wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> Friends,

> >>

> >> I am new to the forum, but have a fair knowledge of astrology as

> >> it has been my hobby for over 35 years. I am all for

> >> questioning the validity of the subject, as I suspect that many

> >> many astrologers, are very gullible because they have not

> >> studied deeply enough to realise that the permutations in

> >> astrology run into the millions. Again most do not realise that

> >> it is possible to see anything and everything you want to see

> >> after the event with ANY and EVERY system, due to the enormous

> >> number of permutations. And f course, very few if any, go on to

> >> achieve good predictions.

> >>

> >> I think I have looked at just about every astrological system and

> >> method going, and frankly most of them do not work at all, and

> >> others do not give consistently good results. It has been my aim

> >> to find one that does work, and to this end I started possibly

> >> the first of the regulat Blind Charts tests on the Web many years

> >> ago. I hoped to find a system that really did work. It is

> >> only in the last year or so that I have found such a system,

> >> which drew my attention because the students of a particular

> >> astrological institution kept getting correct results in our

> >> Blind Chart tests. The system is the Khullar method of Cuspal

> >> Interlinks.

> >>

> >> Anyhow my intention in writing this mail was to point out that it

> >> is not very practical to furnish personal data and then predict

> >> from it, because the waiting time for the prediction means

> >> everyone will lose interest long before the event does or does

> >> not happen. It would be much better to get members to furnish

> >> data, to include some events and family birthdates in order to be

> >> able to rectify the chart, and give say four options which

> >> participants will check to find out which of these options

> >> happened on a given date. This is real life astrology and is

> >> almost as good as future prediction, because you use exactly the

> >> same methods on an unknown event.

> >>

> >>

> >> Ron Gaunt

> >>

> >>

> >> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:44:09 -0000, you wrote:

> >>

> >> >Shri Jagannathan Kapisthalamji,

> >> >Namaskar!

> >> ><If you can furnish your date of birth,place and time of birth

let

> >us

> >> >try some astrological predictions and see whether they work.?>

> >> >

> >> >My late maternal grandfather used to make predictions from

> >horoscopes

> >> >prepared from Grahalaghava panchangas, which were anything but

> >> >correct, and that was admitted by the Panchanga makers

> >themselves!

> >> >Quite often his predictions proved correct!

> >> >

> >> >Does that prove that any predictive gimmicks are either

scientific

> >or

> >> >Vedic? No. That cannot be so, since Grahalaghava was/is

neither a

> >> >Vedic work nor a scientific one!

> >> >

> >> >Thus even if some astrologers are able to make some correct

> >> >predictions about some one sometimes, that never means/proves

that

> >> >those predictions were either on a scientific basis or as per

the

> >> >Vedic lore! All that proves is that sometimes some guess works

do

> >> >prove correct and that is why more often than not, correct

> >preictions

> >> >are made only from incorrect data, whether birth particulars or

> >> >astronomical data, since Lahiri Ayanamsha in itself is the most

> >> >monstrous ayanamsha that could ever have been invented by any

> >> >charlatan!! And it is on the basis of only that ayanamsha that

> >ninety-

> >> >nine per cent predictions are made these days!

> >> >With regards,

> >> >A K Kaul

> >> >

> >> > , " Jagannathan

> >Kapisthalam "

> >> ><jagannathankr@> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Dear Sir,

> >> >> Your article is quite interesting.If you can furnish your

date of

> >> >> birth,place and time of birth let us try some astrological

> >> >predictions and

> >> >> see whether they work.?This is only out of academic interest.

> >> >> Regards,

> >> >> jagannathan.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 6/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Resp. members,

> >> >> > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of

discussion

> >on

> >> >> > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing

my

> >old

> >> >> > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it

and

> >> >> > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not

reacting

> >> >with a

> >> >> > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they

are

> >> >> > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can

interact

> >on

> >> >my

> >> >> > email sanatkumar_jain@ <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com>

> >> >> >

> >> >> > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology

are

> >> >either

> >> >> > interested in by passing the main point or they have only

> >faith on

> >> >> > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any

> >> >concept.

> >> >> > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to

> >follow

> >> >the

> >> >> > path of ignorance.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always

> >> >interested

> >> >> > in looking deep.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Thanks

> >> >> > Sanat

> >> >> >

> >> >> > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >> >> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

some

> >> >> > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

studied

> >in

> >> >depth

> >> >> > but you only have faith, because you have been informed

like

> >> >this. So

> >> >> > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> >> >whether

> >> >> > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

science

> >due

> >> >to

> >> >> > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments

of

> >> >> > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> >want to

> >> >> > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

us

> >> >examine

> >> >> > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

you

> >have

> >> >> > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> >standing

> >> >in

> >> >> > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

been

> >> >> > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is a

> >> >> > science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> >understand

> >> >the

> >> >> > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

but

> >if

> >> >you

> >> >> > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> >call an

> >> >> > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> >> >> > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> >> >> > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> >> >religious

> >> >> > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> >> >Moon,

> >> >> > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

only

> >> >sages

> >> >> > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> >> >> > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

to

> >> >predict

> >> >> > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> >> >grabbing

> >> >> > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> >> >> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> >> >> > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> >donations

> >> >etc.

> >> >> > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

is

> >> >still

> >> >> > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> >> >everybody

> >> >> > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> >situation,

> >> >it

> >> >> > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> >fate

> >> >of

> >> >> > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> >> >fate of

> >> >> > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

various

> >> >> > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> >> >sages

> >> >> > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> >> >principles

> >> >> > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> >> >percolated

> >> >> > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> >learn

> >> >> > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> >were

> >> >> > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> >> >system.

> >> >> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

group

> >> >> > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

due

> >to

> >> >> > their business considerations (these astrologers always try

to

> >fit

> >> >> > past event very precisely within some astrological

principle

> >> >within a

> >> >> > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

faith

> >etc.,

> >> >> > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> >> >astrological

> >> >> > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> >> >> > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

fluke)

> >may

> >> >come

> >> >> > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> >self

> >> >> > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> >other

> >> >> > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> >mislead,

> >> >> > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> >find

> >> >that

> >> >> > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

(say

> >> >> > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> >astrology.

> >> >But

> >> >> > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

the

> >> >level

> >> >> > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> >> >> > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure

was

> >> >> > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> >> >> > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> >> >> > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> >> >following

> >> >> > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> >> >subpara).

> >> >> >

> >> >> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> >> >> > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> >> >> >

> >> >> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> >stationary

> >> >> > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

> >> >> >

> >> >> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

and

> >> >> > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> >of

> >> >each

> >> >> > other) ?

> >> >> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

demons

> >over

> >> >> > nector after sea-churning………..

> >> >> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

(full,

> >> >quarter

> >> >> > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> >> >seventh

> >> >> > house) ?

> >> >> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

> >> >> >

> >> >> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> >exalted

> >> >and

> >> >> > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> >Aries

> >> >> > sign) ?

> >> >> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

of

> >the

> >> >> > day is more in comparison to night……

> >> >> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> >hub

> >> >of

> >> >> > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> >Venus

> >> >(a

> >> >> > small planet) has 20 years ?

> >> >> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of

> >> >> > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> >> >> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> >> >between

> >> >> > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

> >> >> >

> >> >> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> >> >> > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> >> >> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> >> >structure

> >> >> > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

> >> >> >

> >> >> > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

motion

> >of

> >> >> > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> >> >> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> >> >> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

180

> >> >deg.

> >> >> > apart?

> >> >> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> >> >> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> >> >> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

as

> >to

> >> >> > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> >> >> > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire

> >> >> > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

of

> >> >> > Universe.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> >> >> > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

> >sage

> >> >> > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

the

> >> >> > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

in

> >all

> >> >> > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

any

> >old

> >> >> > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

is

> >> >beyond

> >> >> > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> >Moon.

> >> >> > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> >are

> >> >> > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> >> >astrology

> >> >> > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

correct

> >> >> > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> >combination is

> >> >> > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> >and

> >> >> > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> >concept

> >> >> > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> >view

> >> >of

> >> >> > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> >concept

> >> >of

> >> >> > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> >> >> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> >> >astrology " Jyotish -

> >> >> > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> >contains

> >> >the

> >> >> > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

> >the

> >> >basis

> >> >> > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> >sages to

> >> >> > formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> >> >English

> >> >> > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

The

> >> >book is

> >> >> > being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> >> >> > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> >> >produktID=1759836

> >> >> >

> >> >> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> >> >20kumar%

> >> >> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >> >> >

> >> >> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> >> >> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >> >> >

> >> >> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> >nor

> >> >they

> >> >> > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> >presence

> >> >of

> >> >> > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

the

> >> >concept

> >> >> > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> >> >mentioned in

> >> >> > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> >within 14

> >> >> > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

But

> >> >nobody

> >> >> > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> >when

> >> >Sun,

> >> >> > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> >respectively

> >> >on

> >> >> > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

> >and

> >> >Ketu

> >> >> > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

03-

> >> >1988 (

> >> >> > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> >eclipses

> >> >> > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

more

> >then

> >> >> > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> >79.04

> >> >deg.

> >> >> > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

at

> >> >76.49

> >> >> > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> >15.14

> >> >> > deg. away).

> >> >> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> >also

> >> >> > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred

> >at

> >> >the

> >> >> > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

was

> >not

> >> >> > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

of

> >> >myth).

> >> >> > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> >Moon

> >> >> > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> >But

> >> >As

> >> >> > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

1985

> >> >and 3-

> >> >> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> >> >solar

> >> >> > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> >> >> > respectively. You will agree that when there were full

solar

> >> >eclipses

> >> >> > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

166

> >> >degree

> >> >> > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> >possible.

> >> >> > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> >almanac.

> >> >Thus

> >> >> > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> >respectively.

> >> >All

> >> >> > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> >fundamental

> >> >> > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

want

> >> >then I

> >> >> > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> >detecting

> >> >them.

> >> >> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

> >but

> >> >in

> >> >> > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy +

> >> >> > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> >> >> > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> >> >played an

> >> >> > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

to

> >> >immense

> >> >> > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> >> >appears to

> >> >> > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

also

> >> >agree

> >> >> > with the above observation after going through my original

> >> >> > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

decided

> >as

> >> >was

> >> >> > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

try

> >to

> >> >do

> >> >> > some thing, because every thing will take place according

to

> >pre-

> >> >> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

modifying

> >that

> >> >pre-

> >> >> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> >even

> >> >then

> >> >> > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> >> >cascading

> >> >> > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

every

> >> >> > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> >pre-

> >> >> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> >every

> >> >Tom,

> >> >> > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

good

> >> >deed

> >> >> > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> >change.

> >> >You

> >> >> > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> >> >> > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> >> >never

> >> >> > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot be

> >> >> > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

> >also

> >> >> > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> >> >prewritten)

> >> >> > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

because

> >in

> >> >> > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> >altered

> >> >but

> >> >> > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

> >can be

> >> >> > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit

of

> >> >> > planets?

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> >assured

> >> >that

> >> >> > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> >> >astronomy

> >> >> > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> >> >> > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> >> >correct.

> >> >> > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

myth.

> >> >Still if

> >> >> > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

The

> >James

> >> >> > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize to

> >> >> > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail

and

> >> >> > website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> >> >http://www.randi.orgBecause modern

> >> >> > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used

> >to

> >> >> > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> >business

> >> >> > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

this

> >sort

> >> >of

> >> >> > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

> >regard

> >> >> > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> >> >> > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> >> >> > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> >information of

> >> >> > Universe, solar system.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and

facts,

> >data

> >> >> > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to

join

> >> >hands

> >> >> > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society).

> >> >> > Sanat Kumar Jain

> >> >> > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >---

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanat

Thanks a lot.

Can explain me the exact meaning of MYTH?

Sahahsra Saagara--- On Fri, 12/9/08, sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jainastrology a science or mythssagar86Date: Friday, 12 September, 2008, 11:17 PM

 

Resp Sagar Ji,Namaskar, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have gone through BPHS.As per our telephonic talk, a VPP of Rs. 750/- (after discounting Rs. 45/- as per your request) with free postage has been dispatched to the following address.Sahhasra Saagara86, "Sagars Vastu",New Building Lane,Mariyappana Paalya,Rajaji Nagara,Bengalore-560 021.I hope this VPP will reach to you well before 20th. Please intimate me as and when you receive it.450 pages of the book are packed with information which you may have never read. As every chapter has link with previous explanation hence do not be impatience to read it randomly. Because every chapter may be new for you (despite you may have gone through many books). Hence I will suggest you read it slowly, carefully, patiently and definitely serially. So that you may have proper understanding of the research based book with scientific aptitude. I

am sure after going through few pages, you will definitely suggest your personal and internet friends to purchase it, then I will again discuss the matter with the dealer for more discount to you, as promised. I am sure that you will enjoy the reading hence I am eagerly waiting for your intimation, so that we may start a new horizon of interaction. Thanking you,Yours truly,Sanat Kumar Jain2, Wagle’s BadaNear Bombay BakeryDal Bazar, Gwalior (MP)474 009Ph 0751 – 2626868

 

 

 

 

Get your own website and domain for just Rs.1,999/year.* Click here!

[Guest guest]

Dear friend,

Jai Shri Ram!

<the Ancient Indians Calender systems information are seems to be correct but the conclusions of mine are not correct..>

Vedic calendar requires neither NASA nor JPL nor Raman nor Lahiri etc. etc. stalwarts! The shortest day of the year was the start of the new solar year as well as the month Tapah as per the Vedanga Jyotisham and the first New Moon following the same was the start of lunar Magha! Similarly, Tapasya and Phalguna followed and so on! As simple as that!

< I tried to explain how the shade Planets such as Rahu , Kethu, and the Kulihan are formed in the Cosmos and how they are moving in the cosmos with respect to the fixed positions of the 27 Nakshtras in the opposite direction as to their Parent Planets such as Saturn, Mars and the Jupiter>

What is this "Kulihan"? Some cousin of Rahu/Kethu? I am glad to know that you have been able to make "Rahu and Ketu form"---whatever that may mean! I, however,suggest that you pl. go through some elementary books of astronomy to find out as to how "strong and weighty and multi-dimensional" Rahu and Ketu are! May be you will find them to be the most "weighty planets"---since methematical points known as lunar nodes are the most powerful "entities" according to jyotishis as they can create even a Kalasarpa yoga! I hope you have checked your horscope that you do not have that yoga because it appears your "theories" are suffering from some "sade-sati".

Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

 

, ramachandran swaminathan <mannaiswami wrote:

Re: astrology a science or myth

Hello Sirs, Sorry for the interruption in the discussions. Kindly explain me about the mythological and Scientific Inventions. Sri Sanatji told me that the Ancient Indians Calender systems information are seems to be correct but the conclusions of mine are not correct. I tried to explain how the shade Planets such as Rahu , Kethu, and the Kulihan are formed in the Cosmos and how they are moving in the cosmos with respect to the fixed positions of the 27 Nakshtras in the opposite direction as to their Parent Planets such as Saturn, Mars and the Jupiter. Further I have explained about the formations of eclipses of the Sun and the Moon are due to the mere interception of the above Rahu and Kethu and also identified them by the color varitions seen in the ecclipsed planet during the time of eclipse. For Example if the Lunar Eclipse is occured due to the interference of Kethu then the eclipsed moon wiil be seen dark/light red in color and if it is by Rahu the same wiil be seen black in color.Hence I hope that the Rahu and Kethu are not mere a artimatic cutting points which may cause the visibility of the planets in the cosmos but it has some physical characters and shape and the Ancient Indians derived the movements of all the planets with reference to the fixed and the Integrated form of the 27 stellar which forms the Oneness Universe which is the basic for the development of the Astrological Theories! For more details kindly log on www.swamycosmology.wordpress.comThank youR.Swaminathan

 

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respected Sanathkumarji,Namaskar!Though I was silent for 20 months I was always interested and followed the discussions!

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramchandran ji,

Please remember that there is no interruption in the discussions, as this forum

is only meant for exchanging the views, and every member is free to share his

views (excluding filthy language). That's why no msg is being moderated. Hence

your views will always be welcomed.

 

I am still waiting for your stand on my earlier msgs. I think instead of

throwing off shot comments on predictive astrology, we must be systematic on

discussion, so that we can atleast workout the point of agreement and

disagreement. So far we have touched the following points without any

conclusion.

 

1 Astrology (predictive) is a science or not.

2 predictive principles are based on helio centric or geo centric theory.

3 Planets are moving around the Earth or around the Sun (in view of principles

of predictive astrology).

4 Whether astrological (predictive) theories can not be compared with modern

knowledge.

5 What are Rahu Ketu. Are the mathematical existence or some real phenomena.

 

Though these points have been discussed in earlier msgs. with other members. But

I think you will come out with pointwise observation so that we may find some

definite conclusion between our stand. You can also add any other point too.

 

Yours

 

Sanat

 

PS: I Welcome to all new members in the forum including Sh Rajkumar Ji, who is

very active in Tarksheel Society of Punjab.

 

Silent members may also join and share their views instead of simply reading the

msgs. Many members are observing silence after some msg. since long due to fear

of their business. Mr. Kinkaid is also missing since one month.

 

 

 

 

, ramachandran swaminathan

<mannaiswami wrote:

>

> Hello Sirs,

> Sorry for the interruption in the discussions. Kindly

> explain me about the mythological and Scientific Inventions. Sri Sanatji

> told me that the Ancient Indians Calender systems information are seems to

> be correct but the conclusions of mine are not correct. I tried to explain

> how the shade Planets such as Rahu , Kethu, and the Kulihan are formed in

> the Cosmos and how they are moving in the cosmos with respect to the fixed

> positions of the 27 Nakshtras in the opposite direction as to their Parent

> Planets such as Saturn, Mars and the Jupiter.

>

> Further I have explained about the formations of eclipses of the Sun and the

> Moon are due to the mere interception of the above Rahu and Kethu and also

> identified them by the color varitions seen in the ecclipsed planet during

> the time of eclipse. For Example if the Lunar Eclipse is occured due to the

> interference of Kethu then the eclipsed moon wiil be seen dark/light red in

> color and if it is by Rahu the same wiil be seen black in color.

>

> Hence I hope that the Rahu and Kethu are not mere a artimatic cutting points

> which may cause the visibility of the planets in the cosmos but it has some

> physical characters and shape and the Ancient Indians derived the movements

> of all the planets with reference to the fixed and the Integrated form of

> the 27 stellar which forms the Oneness Universe which is the basic for the

> development of the Astrological Theories! For more details kindly log on

> www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com

> Thank you

> R.Swaminathan

>

> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Respected Sanathkumarji,

> > Namaskar!

> > Though I was silent for 20 months I was always interested and followed the

> > discussions!

> > I will never accept that my Guruji commercially exploited Astrology or he

> > blindly followed the principles. He never mentioned that Rahu ketu are

> > intersecting points. In fact he said that there is no mention about Rahu

> > ketu in our scriptures!! There are only 5 planets apart from Sun and Moon

> > and Rahu Ketu is a mythological invention!!

> > Eclipses have always happend either on Amayasya or on Pournami days when

> > Sun and Moon were in conjuction or opposition (180 degrees).

> > Since you asked for one of the principles of Predictions of 95% success I

> > quote one stunning fact that all the 70 predictions we made at KL one common

> > factor was their connection with 5th House of love affars and everybody had

> > a girl friend and every asked about their love affair!! This is quite

> > uncommon in India! My guruji explained this to me which was a revelation to

> > me.

> > We shouldn't predict when osama will die? or for that matter the death of

> > any person or when terrorism will end since by the death of few/many people

> > terrorism is not going to end after all!! As far as our country goes it

> > makes absolutely no difference as to who will be the next PM and others will

> > never rest since it is human nature particularly in politics to go on and on

> > like Robert Bruse

> > According to me and my gurujis instuctions taking money would vitiateand

> > creates vested interest and it does matter when we as astrologers would like

> > to do service to the community.

> > Predictive Astrology is also as perfect a science as any other branch of

> > astrology and there are no gimmicks involved as mentioned by Shri. A C kual.

> > I fully agree with you that there is nothing personal and this forum is

> > discussing purely for academic interest only. Let us remember our

> > limitations since nobody can claim that he is an authority on the subject of

> > astrology. In spite of the modern developments and concepts which are

> > fundamentally based on our ancients wisdom, knowledge and principles there

> > is no harm to research and discuss and put to test for current situations.In

> > our Hindu culture we worship everybody as devine and there is no harm in

> > worshipping planets as dieties

> > Regards

> >

> >

> > P.B.Phanindar

> > Chartered Accountant

> > 99893 99195

> > 98662 21340

> >

> > --- On *Fri, 2/4/10, sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jain*wrote:

> >

> >

> > sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jain

> > astrology a science or myth

> >

> > Friday, 2 April, 2010, 1:44 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Resp. Phanindar Ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your reappearing after 23-9-2008, as I was waiting for your

> > reply since then.

> >

> > I am again offering my stand and hope you will continue to interact instead

> > of observing silence of 20 months. Hi.

> > >>>>I might be inclined to agree to certain extent that predictive part is

> > being misused and commercially exploited by few astrologers but certainly

> > not by ALL!!! including your Guru ji.

> >

> > (((((((( You also wrote like this on 21-9-08. I am quoting that point

> > >>>>> Please do not suspect all astrologers as there are many who are doing

> > great service 2 the society in relieving the anxiety of their clients

> > without any expectations from them except well wishing!! I am not suspecting

> > any astrologer either he is exploiting or doing it as social service, Rather

> > I am saying (refer some previous msg) that astrologers have all right to

> > extract money from fools. Because fools are paying because they also have

> > their mindset that astrology is science.

> >

> > Further it makes no difference as to whether some one taking some money or

> > not. He may have blind faith that astrology is correct and with a view to

> > provide social service he may not take money. Thus question is not as to who

> > is supporting it, who is following it, who is benefited by it or who is

> > cheated by this and so on. Main point which we are discussing in this forum

> > is as to whether predictive astrology has some scientific, logical principle

> > based on correct information of universe or not.)))))))) ))

> >

> > I will like to answer same that it makes no difference as to who is

> > exploiting or who is not exploiting. Main point it that whether predictive

> > astrology is correct or not. Like it makes no difference as to which doctor

> > is exploiting the patient and which one is not. Point is that pathological

> > report (horoscope) and diagnosis (application of principle) and future

> > condition of patient (future event) is correct or not. Which we are

> > discussing in this forum.

> >

> > >>>>>>>our predictions has been successful (Nearly 90 to 95%)

> > Please quote some principle which is 95% correct or if you are so sure

> > about yourself then why don't you predict some fruitful prediction so that

> > world may live peacefully (like when Osama will die or when terrorism will

> > end or who will be next PM etc. so that rest person may take permanent rest.

> > Hi)

> >

> > >>>>>In fact we went to Kuala Lumpur from Hyderabad to teach Predictive

> > teckniques for 21 days to the Practising astrologers of the Malasian

> > Astrological Society as part of their Silver Jubilee Celeberations and gave

> > 70 predictions all free of cost!! and it is not a fluke.

> > It makes no difference as to whom you have provided some prediction. It is

> > not our (Indian) wholesale property and persons with weak mentality are

> > available in whole of the world. You can give 7000 prediction, but they all

> > may be psychologically correct. So where is astrology?

> >

> > >>>>>>There are certain rules and regulations according to each system and

> > if followed with conviction and prayers/upasana by the astrologers for the

> > benefit of the society and not for fortune telling of individuals it works!!

> > Yes, there are different systems but most of them are against each other

> > then how you can say that which principle is correct. At the most you can

> > support a particular principle, which may be correct in the that situation.

> > If prediction is correct with prayer / upasana then again where is the

> > astrology. Any one or selected one can just prayer and predict then it may

> > be due to his intuition and not due to application of predictive principles.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>With respect to the eclipses though it is pure mathematics the

> > total eclipse is not visible to everybody at the same time due to latitude

> > and longitude differences of the places from where it is observed as you are

> > aware and hence beyond 15 degrees difference is possible!

> > Perhaps you have not read the particular para, with a view which I want to

> > emphasize. If I will ask that what is Rahu and ketu then you will like all

> > other astrologer will say that it is intersection point of the orbit of the

> > Sun and Moon. Though you, including all other astrologers and with due

> > regards your Guru Ji too will not be able to answer as to in which scripture

> > or Parashar, Vashisth, Varahmihir etc. etc. have intimated that Rahu Ketu

> > are intersection point. I am waiting for your answer, including readers of

> > the forum.

> >

> > Now, if Rahu ketu are intersection point then you will agree that Sun and

> > Moon will be at the intersection point of the orbits at the time of eclipse

> > (irrespective of the fact as to whether eclipse is visible or not from some

> > particular place). Panchang correctly shows that Sun and Moon may be at the

> > same position at the time of eclipse. But what I want to highlight that Rahu

> > ketu, which are intersection point must also be at the same position where

> > Sun and Moon are moving (or 180 deg apart). Whereas panchang show Rahu Ketu

> > at different location. Then how there location may be correct? I hope you

> > may now get my point and came our with your valuable comments, without

> > observing long silence.

> >

> > In your another mail you wrote

> > >>>>>>We cannot question the Wisdom of our Ancients. They never had any

> > vested interest or bluffed. All the principles laid down by them is for the

> > good of the society in general. Unfortunately we are not able to appreciate

> > them. Though times have changed the rules and regulations will hold good for

> > any time to come for example the eclipse as mentioned by you. They were

> > never wrong in understanding the Universe as we cannot and are incapable of

> > understanding them and their principles. Let us respect our traditions and

> > their wisdom.

> > I will like to say as to where you find that I am not respecting our

> > tradition and wisdom of ancestral. But definitely not like you. I always

> > appreciate their skill in the that situation, and like others I also have

> > proud on their skill knowledge etc., which you can find in various msg of

> > the forum. But proud on our ancestral is one thing and following that

> > blindly is different. If our ancestral were living in hut or producing the

> > fire by rubbing the wood or they think that all moving celestial objects are

> > living deities or Earth is stationary etc. etc. then do you think that after

> > acquiring lot of skill, knowledge etc about the universe we must stick to

> > our age old knowledge and sticking to that knowledge is only way to respect,

> > then I am sorry. Because this is the root cause of blind faith, which is

> > being exploited by astrologers etc.

> >

> > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.

> >

> > Thanks. Hope you will continue to share your views.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> > PS: Other silent members may please come forward and share their views.

> > Remember only by interaction we can improve our knowledge and find the

> > truth.

> >

> >

> >

<http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatur\

eline.htm@Middle?>

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your

Homepage<http://in.rd./tagline_yyi_1/*http://in./>.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramchandran ji,

Please remember that there is no interruption in the discussions, as this forum

is only meant for exchanging the views, and every member is free to share his

views (excluding filthy language). That's why no msg is being moderated. Hence

your views will always be welcomed.

 

I am still waiting for your stand on my earlier msgs. I think instead of

throwing off shot comments on predictive astrology, we must be systematic on

discussion, so that we can atleast workout the point of agreement and

disagreement. So far we have touched the following points without any

conclusion.

 

1 Astrology (predictive) is a science or not.

2 predictive principles are based on helio centric or geo centric theory.

3 Planets are moving around the Earth or around the Sun (in view of principles

of predictive astrology).

4 Whether astrological (predictive) theories can not be compared with modern

knowledge.

5 What are Rahu Ketu. Are the mathematical existence or some real phenomena.

 

Though these points have been discussed in earlier msgs. with other members. But

I think you will come out with pointwise observation so that we may find some

definite conclusion between our stand. You can also add any other point too.

 

Yours

 

Sanat

 

PS: I Welcome to all new members in the forum including Sh Rajkumar Ji, who is

very active in Tarksheel Society of Punjab.

 

Silent members may also join and share their views instead of simply reading the

msgs. Many members are observing silence after some msg. since long due to fear

of their business. Mr. Kinkaid is also missing since one month.

 

 

 

 

, ramachandran swaminathan

<mannaiswami wrote:

>

> Hello Sirs,

> Sorry for the interruption in the discussions. Kindly

> explain me about the mythological and Scientific Inventions. Sri Sanatji

> told me that the Ancient Indians Calender systems information are seems to

> be correct but the conclusions of mine are not correct. I tried to explain

> how the shade Planets such as Rahu , Kethu, and the Kulihan are formed in

> the Cosmos and how they are moving in the cosmos with respect to the fixed

> positions of the 27 Nakshtras in the opposite direction as to their Parent

> Planets such as Saturn, Mars and the Jupiter.

>

> Further I have explained about the formations of eclipses of the Sun and the

> Moon are due to the mere interception of the above Rahu and Kethu and also

> identified them by the color varitions seen in the ecclipsed planet during

> the time of eclipse. For Example if the Lunar Eclipse is occured due to the

> interference of Kethu then the eclipsed moon wiil be seen dark/light red in

> color and if it is by Rahu the same wiil be seen black in color.

>

> Hence I hope that the Rahu and Kethu are not mere a artimatic cutting points

> which may cause the visibility of the planets in the cosmos but it has some

> physical characters and shape and the Ancient Indians derived the movements

> of all the planets with reference to the fixed and the Integrated form of

> the 27 stellar which forms the Oneness Universe which is the basic for the

> development of the Astrological Theories! For more details kindly log on

> www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com

> Thank you

> R.Swaminathan

>

> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Respected Sanathkumarji,

> > Namaskar!

> > Though I was silent for 20 months I was always interested and followed the

> > discussions!

> > I will never accept that my Guruji commercially exploited Astrology or he

> > blindly followed the principles. He never mentioned that Rahu ketu are

> > intersecting points. In fact he said that there is no mention about Rahu

> > ketu in our scriptures!! There are only 5 planets apart from Sun and Moon

> > and Rahu Ketu is a mythological invention!!

> > Eclipses have always happend either on Amayasya or on Pournami days when

> > Sun and Moon were in conjuction or opposition (180 degrees).

> > Since you asked for one of the principles of Predictions of 95% success I

> > quote one stunning fact that all the 70 predictions we made at KL one common

> > factor was their connection with 5th House of love affars and everybody had

> > a girl friend and every asked about their love affair!! This is quite

> > uncommon in India! My guruji explained this to me which was a revelation to

> > me.

> > We shouldn't predict when osama will die? or for that matter the death of

> > any person or when terrorism will end since by the death of few/many people

> > terrorism is not going to end after all!! As far as our country goes it

> > makes absolutely no difference as to who will be the next PM and others will

> > never rest since it is human nature particularly in politics to go on and on

> > like Robert Bruse

> > According to me and my gurujis instuctions taking money would vitiateand

> > creates vested interest and it does matter when we as astrologers would like

> > to do service to the community.

> > Predictive Astrology is also as perfect a science as any other branch of

> > astrology and there are no gimmicks involved as mentioned by Shri. A C kual.

> > I fully agree with you that there is nothing personal and this forum is

> > discussing purely for academic interest only. Let us remember our

> > limitations since nobody can claim that he is an authority on the subject of

> > astrology. In spite of the modern developments and concepts which are

> > fundamentally based on our ancients wisdom, knowledge and principles there

> > is no harm to research and discuss and put to test for current situations.In

> > our Hindu culture we worship everybody as devine and there is no harm in

> > worshipping planets as dieties

> > Regards

> >

> >

> > P.B.Phanindar

> > Chartered Accountant

> > 99893 99195

> > 98662 21340

> >

> > --- On *Fri, 2/4/10, sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jain*wrote:

> >

> >

> > sanatkumar jain <sanatkumar_jain

> > astrology a science or myth

> >

> > Friday, 2 April, 2010, 1:44 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Resp. Phanindar Ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks for your reappearing after 23-9-2008, as I was waiting for your

> > reply since then.

> >

> > I am again offering my stand and hope you will continue to interact instead

> > of observing silence of 20 months. Hi.

> > >>>>I might be inclined to agree to certain extent that predictive part is

> > being misused and commercially exploited by few astrologers but certainly

> > not by ALL!!! including your Guru ji.

> >

> > (((((((( You also wrote like this on 21-9-08. I am quoting that point

> > >>>>> Please do not suspect all astrologers as there are many who are doing

> > great service 2 the society in relieving the anxiety of their clients

> > without any expectations from them except well wishing!! I am not suspecting

> > any astrologer either he is exploiting or doing it as social service, Rather

> > I am saying (refer some previous msg) that astrologers have all right to

> > extract money from fools. Because fools are paying because they also have

> > their mindset that astrology is science.

> >

> > Further it makes no difference as to whether some one taking some money or

> > not. He may have blind faith that astrology is correct and with a view to

> > provide social service he may not take money. Thus question is not as to who

> > is supporting it, who is following it, who is benefited by it or who is

> > cheated by this and so on. Main point which we are discussing in this forum

> > is as to whether predictive astrology has some scientific, logical principle

> > based on correct information of universe or not.)))))))) ))

> >

> > I will like to answer same that it makes no difference as to who is

> > exploiting or who is not exploiting. Main point it that whether predictive

> > astrology is correct or not. Like it makes no difference as to which doctor

> > is exploiting the patient and which one is not. Point is that pathological

> > report (horoscope) and diagnosis (application of principle) and future

> > condition of patient (future event) is correct or not. Which we are

> > discussing in this forum.

> >

> > >>>>>>>our predictions has been successful (Nearly 90 to 95%)

> > Please quote some principle which is 95% correct or if you are so sure

> > about yourself then why don't you predict some fruitful prediction so that

> > world may live peacefully (like when Osama will die or when terrorism will

> > end or who will be next PM etc. so that rest person may take permanent rest.

> > Hi)

> >

> > >>>>>In fact we went to Kuala Lumpur from Hyderabad to teach Predictive

> > teckniques for 21 days to the Practising astrologers of the Malasian

> > Astrological Society as part of their Silver Jubilee Celeberations and gave

> > 70 predictions all free of cost!! and it is not a fluke.

> > It makes no difference as to whom you have provided some prediction. It is

> > not our (Indian) wholesale property and persons with weak mentality are

> > available in whole of the world. You can give 7000 prediction, but they all

> > may be psychologically correct. So where is astrology?

> >

> > >>>>>>There are certain rules and regulations according to each system and

> > if followed with conviction and prayers/upasana by the astrologers for the

> > benefit of the society and not for fortune telling of individuals it works!!

> > Yes, there are different systems but most of them are against each other

> > then how you can say that which principle is correct. At the most you can

> > support a particular principle, which may be correct in the that situation.

> > If prediction is correct with prayer / upasana then again where is the

> > astrology. Any one or selected one can just prayer and predict then it may

> > be due to his intuition and not due to application of predictive principles.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>With respect to the eclipses though it is pure mathematics the

> > total eclipse is not visible to everybody at the same time due to latitude

> > and longitude differences of the places from where it is observed as you are

> > aware and hence beyond 15 degrees difference is possible!

> > Perhaps you have not read the particular para, with a view which I want to

> > emphasize. If I will ask that what is Rahu and ketu then you will like all

> > other astrologer will say that it is intersection point of the orbit of the

> > Sun and Moon. Though you, including all other astrologers and with due

> > regards your Guru Ji too will not be able to answer as to in which scripture

> > or Parashar, Vashisth, Varahmihir etc. etc. have intimated that Rahu Ketu

> > are intersection point. I am waiting for your answer, including readers of

> > the forum.

> >

> > Now, if Rahu ketu are intersection point then you will agree that Sun and

> > Moon will be at the intersection point of the orbits at the time of eclipse

> > (irrespective of the fact as to whether eclipse is visible or not from some

> > particular place). Panchang correctly shows that Sun and Moon may be at the

> > same position at the time of eclipse. But what I want to highlight that Rahu

> > ketu, which are intersection point must also be at the same position where

> > Sun and Moon are moving (or 180 deg apart). Whereas panchang show Rahu Ketu

> > at different location. Then how there location may be correct? I hope you

> > may now get my point and came our with your valuable comments, without

> > observing long silence.

> >

> > In your another mail you wrote

> > >>>>>>We cannot question the Wisdom of our Ancients. They never had any

> > vested interest or bluffed. All the principles laid down by them is for the

> > good of the society in general. Unfortunately we are not able to appreciate

> > them. Though times have changed the rules and regulations will hold good for

> > any time to come for example the eclipse as mentioned by you. They were

> > never wrong in understanding the Universe as we cannot and are incapable of

> > understanding them and their principles. Let us respect our traditions and

> > their wisdom.

> > I will like to say as to where you find that I am not respecting our

> > tradition and wisdom of ancestral. But definitely not like you. I always

> > appreciate their skill in the that situation, and like others I also have

> > proud on their skill knowledge etc., which you can find in various msg of

> > the forum. But proud on our ancestral is one thing and following that

> > blindly is different. If our ancestral were living in hut or producing the

> > fire by rubbing the wood or they think that all moving celestial objects are

> > living deities or Earth is stationary etc. etc. then do you think that after

> > acquiring lot of skill, knowledge etc about the universe we must stick to

> > our age old knowledge and sticking to that knowledge is only way to respect,

> > then I am sorry. Because this is the root cause of blind faith, which is

> > being exploited by astrologers etc.

> >

> > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.

> >

> > Thanks. Hope you will continue to share your views.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> > PS: Other silent members may please come forward and share their views.

> > Remember only by interaction we can improve our knowledge and find the

> > truth.

> >

> >

> >

<http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatur\

eline.htm@Middle?>

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your

Homepage<http://in.rd./tagline_yyi_1/*http://in./>.

> >

> >

> >

>