astrology a science or myth

October 30, 2007

Dear Sanat Kumar Jain,

I think you should read the Preface and

those are the Thoughts of the List Owner -

Krushnaji

http://krushna.sageasita.com/pdf/preface.pdf

So whatever answers you are seeing for you

might find it ALL or Some or None as per the Preface.

For rest of the answers, you might have to

seek some more general lists.

We are right now in the middle of an

assignment that members are trying to solve. Kindly do not disrupt that but

instead, try to solve it using KAS.

I have provided you with the link to what

Krushnaji has said, rest of the members are advised to send replies should they

wish in private to Sanat Jumar Jain and it will be appreciated.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

On Behalf Of sanat2221

Tuesday October 30, 2007

2:00 PM

ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

I will like to say that ponder and instead of sticking to some

misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth

but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So

come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether

astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to

some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to

emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine

it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have

not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in

support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the

problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you

are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

astrologer in the consumer forum.

At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious

philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon,

Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages

had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict

solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing

the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc.

to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still

being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody

is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it

was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of

deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of

King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages

based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles

were the key factors for deciding the fate.

Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated

in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were

spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system.

What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit

past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a

capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc.,

but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological

principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come

true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self

praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead,

create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that

only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But

none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level

of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following

questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).

1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each

other) ?

Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

nector after sea-churning………..

3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter

to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh

house) ?

Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and

debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

sign) ?

Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the

day is more in comparison to night……

5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of

our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a

small planet) has 20 years ?

Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between

nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

(Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure

of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg.

apart?

On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

Universe.

Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old

scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond

Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology

since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is

not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept

(when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of

modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of

Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish -

Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the

detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis

of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to

formulate these principles. This book was also published in English

with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of

predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more

about the book or description of various chapters then you may send

email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836

http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%

20jain & TAG= & CID=

http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they

were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of

Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept

of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in

the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14

degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody

will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun,

Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on

08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu

were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 (

Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses

occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg.

on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49

deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14

deg. away).

To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also

find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the

intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not

known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth).

Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon

happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As

per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3-

10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar

eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses

then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree

respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus

there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All

horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental

positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I

can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them.

I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in

primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

(recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an

important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense

faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to

be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree

with the above observation after going through my original

revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was

contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do

some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre-

written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then

all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading

effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom,

Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed

etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You

will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never

and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten)

by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but

how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be

changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

planets?

Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that

actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy

and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct.

Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if

you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James

Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern

technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of

ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard

and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

(predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of

Universe, solar system.

I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on

my email sanatkumar_jain (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com

.. It would be better to know

the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in

the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is

Damaging Society).

Sanat Kumar Jain

Gwalior

Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

problems to moderator

November 11, 2007

Dear Member,

You have used a astrology Forum, to talk about

astrology as damaging Society.

This same subject makes you write a book

and earn money through it.

What a Irony ?

Bad naming astrology and using same to earn money.

Well, instead of going too much into

pros and cons, I challenge you to get an

audience of at least 1000 educated persons,

pick up randomly 15 from them, do not

tell me about them, I will astrologically prove

and predict on stage, at least 5 incidents about

each persons Life, without knowing them, without

their Birth data, and without any recourse to any

sort of knowledge about them. But I need following

conditions to be fulfilled -

1) Let this be a Live audience.

2) I will charge you Rs.2 Lakhs each person

for my right predictions.

3) You will promise not to bad mouth astrology

ever again.

4) This will be done between morning 10.00am to

evening 6.00pm

5) members should be chosen through Lottery

(Ticket nos picked by Chief Guest from a box).

6) The members chosen be given 10 minutes to write

about themselves ,and keep those papers ready to

be read in front of the audience as soon as I

finish with each of them.

If You are ready, then I am ready for an Invite

from you.

And remember I will not loose a single persons

payment, so keep the payment ready, with 10%

advance. Let this be held in India, in any

place and time of your choice.

No more further talks, I need action from you now.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

>

> I will like to say that ponder and instead of sticking to some

> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in

depth

> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this.

So

> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether

> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to

> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to

> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

examine

> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have

> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing

in

> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand

the

> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if

you

> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> astrologer in the consumer forum.

>

> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

religious

> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon,

> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only

sages

> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

predict

> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing

> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations

etc.

> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still

> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

everybody

> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it

> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of

> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate

of

> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages

> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

principles

> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

>

> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

percolated

> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were

> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

system.

> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit

> past event very precisely within some astrological principle within

a

> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc.,

> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

astrological

> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may

come

> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self

> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead,

> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find

that

> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology.

But

> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

level

> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

following

> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).

>

> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

>

> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

>

> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of

each

> other) ?

> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> nector after sea-churning………..

> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

quarter

> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh

> house) ?

> Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

>

> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and

> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> sign) ?

> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the

> day is more in comparison to night……

> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub

of

> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus

(a

> small planet) has 20 years ?

> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

between

> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

>

> Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

>

> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure

> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

>

> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg.

> apart?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

>

> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> Universe.

>

> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old

> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

beyond

> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

astrology

> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is

> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept

> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of

> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept

of

> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

astrology " Jyotish -

> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains

the

> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the

basis

> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to

> formulate these principles. This book was also published in English

> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of

> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more

> about the book or description of various chapters then you may send

> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836

>

> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%

> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

>

> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

>

> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor

they

> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence

of

> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

concept

> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned

in

> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14

> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But

nobody

> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when

Sun,

> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively

on

> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and

Ketu

> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988

(

> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses

> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04

deg.

> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

76.49

> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14

> deg. away).

> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also

> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the

> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not

> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

myth).

> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon

> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But

As

> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and

3-

> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar

> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

eclipses

> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

degree

> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac.

Thus

> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively.

All

> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental

> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then

I

> can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

them.

> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in

> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played

an

> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

immense

> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears

to

> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree

> with the above observation after going through my original

> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was

> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to

do

> some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that

pre-

> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even

then

> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

cascading

> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every

Tom,

> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed

> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change.

You

> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never

> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

prewritten)

> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered

but

> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be

> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> planets?

>

> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured

that

> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

astronomy

> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

correct.

> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still

if

> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James

> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort

of

> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard

> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of

> Universe, solar system.

>

> I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction

on

> my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know

> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in

> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology

Is

> Damaging Society).

> Sanat Kumar Jain

> Gwalior

>

> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> problems to moderator

>

November 20, 2007

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

Dear Mr Bhaskar,

Sanat Kumar has raised a valid point about astrology and we must

answer his points rather than throw up a challenge knowing fully well

that no prediction has so far stood the test of time.If any prediction

has come out true that is by chance following the laws of probability.

Otherwise we are all experts in only interpreting events post facto.

There is no harm in raising this question on this site since

opposition like appreciation ( of so called gurus which is usual on

this site) should also be appreciated.

In case you are eager to throw up a challenge there is the James Randi

Educational Foundation that is prepared to give you a million dollar

for your bravado. (Please see site at

http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ )

Regards,

P.N.Razdan

> Dear Member,

>

> You have used a astrology Forum, to talk about

> astrology as damaging Society.

> This same subject makes you write a book

> and earn money through it.

> What a Irony ?

> Bad naming astrology and using same to earn money.

>

> Well, instead of going too much into

> pros and cons, I challenge you to get an

> audience of at least 1000 educated persons,

> pick up randomly 15 from them, do not

> tell me about them, I will astrologically prove

> and predict on stage, at least 5 incidents about

> each persons Life, without knowing them, without

> their Birth data, and without any recourse to any

> sort of knowledge about them. But I need following

> conditions to be fulfilled -

>

> 1) Let this be a Live audience.

> 2) I will charge you Rs.2 Lakhs each person

> for my right predictions.

> 3) You will promise not to bad mouth astrology

> ever again.

> 4) This will be done between morning 10.00am to

> evening 6.00pm

> 5) members should be chosen through Lottery

> (Ticket nos picked by Chief Guest from a box).

> 6) The members chosen be given 10 minutes to write

> about themselves ,and keep those papers ready to

> be read in front of the audience as soon as I

> finish with each of them.

>

> If You are ready, then I am ready for an Invite

> from you.

>

> And remember I will not loose a single persons

> payment, so keep the payment ready, with 10%

> advance. Let this be held in India, in any

> place and time of your choice.

>

> No more further talks, I need action from you now.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

, " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >

> > I will like to say that ponder and instead of sticking to some

> > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in

> depth

> > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this.

> So

> > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether

> > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to

> > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to

> > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

> examine

> > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have

> > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing

> in

> > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand

> the

> > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if

> you

> > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >

> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> religious

> > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon,

> > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only

> sages

> > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> predict

> > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing

> > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations

> etc.

> > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still

> > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> everybody

> > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it

> > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of

> > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate

> of

> > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages

> > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> principles

> > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >

> > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> percolated

> > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were

> > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

> system.

> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit

> > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within

> a

> > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc.,

> > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> astrological

> > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may

> come

> > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self

> > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead,

> > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find

> that

> > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology.

> But

> > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

> level

> > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> following

> > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).

> >

> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> >

> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so onï¿½ï¿½ï¿½.

> >

> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of

> each

> > other) ?

> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> > nector after sea-churningï¿½ï¿½ï¿½..

> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> quarter

> > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh

> > house) ?

> > Based on the position of army in the battle fieldï¿½ï¿½ï¿½..

> >

> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and

> > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> > sign) ?

> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the

> > day is more in comparison to nightï¿½ï¿½

> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub

> of

> > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus

> (a

> > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> > Universe on the basis of lord and exaltedï¿½ï¿½.

> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> between

> > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> >

> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scripturesï¿½ï¿½ï¿½.

> >

> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure

> > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far awayï¿½..

> >

> > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipseï¿½..

> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg.

> > apart?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipseï¿½ï¿½ï¿½..

> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation monthï¿½ï¿½ï¿½.

> >

> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> > Universe.

> >

> > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old

> > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

> beyond

> > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> astrology

> > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is

> > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept

> > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of

> > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept

> of

> > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> astrology " Jyotish -

> > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains

> the

> > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the

> basis

> > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to

> > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English

> > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of

> > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more

> > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send

> > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836

> >

> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%

> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >

> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >

> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor

> they

> > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence

> of

> > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

> concept

> > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned

> in

> > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14

> > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But

> nobody

> > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when

> Sun,

> > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively

> on

> > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and

> Ketu

> > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988

> (

> > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses

> > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> > 14ï¿½. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04

> deg.

> > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

> 76.49

> > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14

> > deg. away).

> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also

> > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the

> > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not

> > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

> myth).

> > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon

> > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But

> As

> > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and

> 3-

> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar

> > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

> eclipses

> > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

> degree

> > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac.

> Thus

> > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively.

> All

> > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental

> > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then

> I

> > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

> them.

> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in

> > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played

> an

> > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> immense

> > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears

> to

> > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree

> > with the above observation after going through my original

> > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was

> > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to

> do

> > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that

> pre-

> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even

> then

> > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> cascading

> > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every

> Tom,

> > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed

> > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change.

> You

> > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never

> > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> prewritten)

> > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered

> but

> > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be

> > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> > planets?

> >

> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured

> that

> > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> astronomy

> > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> correct.

> > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still

> if

> > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James

> > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort

> of

> > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard

> > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of

> > Universe, solar system.

> >

> > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction

> on

> > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know

> > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in

> > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology

> Is

> > Damaging Society).

> > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > Gwalior

> >

> > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> > problems to moderator

> >

>

November 22, 2007

Dear Bhaskar Ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your comments. I think you are very much hearted with my

blog. So let me clear first that I do not want to disturb your day to

day discussion. Hence I asked to write me directly on my email. Now

I will try to face your comments.

>>This same subject makes you write a book

and earn money through it.

What a Irony ?

Bad naming astrology and using same to earn money.

Yes, I wrote two ORIGINAL books on astrology (second book on public

demand), but I am not earning from these books. You may perhaps be

aware that it is publisher who gain or loose from the publication

of a book and not the writer. So far royalty is concerned, so instead

of this I have asked the publisher to reduce the cost so that

ignorant public may go through and decide themselves as to whether

astrology is a science or myth. So neither I am giving bad name to

astrology nor I am earning from this. Because I am Senior Accounts

Officer and earning handsome amount. Astrology is my hobby since last

35-40 years. It is not my profession hence I could deeply studied it

and found the truth, which I am just sharing through my books.

If by just opposing astrology you are categorizing me for bad naming

then you are wrong. Because actually astrologers (I don't know about

you) are neither following the Indian knowledge nor scientific

logic. Because If astrology is beneficial by the names of Indian

sages then they take their shelter, whereas our sages has neither

devised signs (Rashis) etc. nor they have concept of solar system. On

the other hand when astrologer find it beneficial then they use

modern scientific data in support of astrology to befool general

public so that they may think that astrology is science. Whereas

scientific data are quite against with the concept of our sages. So

actually astrologers are giving bad name to astrology by misguiding

general public for their business considerations and using

psychology, modern scientific data in the coverup of knowledge of

sages, Ved etc.. Whereas I am just giving the factual position, and

it is for the reader to decide as to what is right.

If their may be a slightest truth in predictive astrology then I

would be the first man who may be happy, Because I am actually

associated with this since long and I have even designed a horoscope

which comprises all astrological principles in single horoscope

(which is also given in the Book).

So far your challenge is concerned, and you are not prepared to

answer the questions raised in my blog, because if you will answer

these questions then you can realize that astrology is science or

not; then I will like to say that If you have that much capacity then

you just provide any foolproof astrological principle by which you

can decide about

1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female.

2 When he / she will be married.

3 When he / she will be father / mother

4 When he / she will die.

Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive

answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and

secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is

governed and changed, Or if you have any other foolproof principle

for any prediction then you can also intimate for further

interaction. If readers have faith on some astrologer then they may

ask him above 4 questions and/or 10 questions raised in my blog, then

they will realize the truth.

If you are interested in public demo then contact concerning

organization who is willing to pay one million dollar (4 crore Rs.)

and don't waste your time for just 2 lakh Rs.

If you want then you and other reader may directly write on my email

sanatkumar_jain, because I do not want to disturb your

discussion, because when some one wants to be misguided then why I

should worry. But it is my social duty to inform some truth, Because

they are not aware with the otherside story, but definitely I am not

after any one.

Yes I will like to add one more point that so far many astrologers

and readers have gone through the book but non of them has ever

intimated that he is not convinced with the factual position, but

contrary to this every one praised the book, which is first book with

such scientific analysis.

Thanks once again,

Yours,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Member,

>

> You have used a astrology Forum, to talk about

> astrology as damaging Society.

> This same subject makes you write a book

> and earn money through it.

> What a Irony ?

> Bad naming astrology and using same to earn money.

>

> Well, instead of going too much into

> pros and cons, I challenge you to get an

> audience of at least 1000 educated persons,

> pick up randomly 15 from them, do not

> tell me about them, I will astrologically prove

> and predict on stage, at least 5 incidents about

> each persons Life, without knowing them, without

> their Birth data, and without any recourse to any

> sort of knowledge about them. But I need following

> conditions to be fulfilled -

>

> 1) Let this be a Live audience.

> 2) I will charge you Rs.2 Lakhs each person

> for my right predictions.

> 3) You will promise not to bad mouth astrology

> ever again.

> 4) This will be done between morning 10.00am to

> evening 6.00pm

> 5) members should be chosen through Lottery

> (Ticket nos picked by Chief Guest from a box).

> 6) The members chosen be given 10 minutes to write

> about themselves ,and keep those papers ready to

> be read in front of the audience as soon as I

> finish with each of them.

>

> If You are ready, then I am ready for an Invite

> from you.

>

> And remember I will not loose a single persons

> payment, so keep the payment ready, with 10%

> advance. Let this be held in India, in any

> place and time of your choice.

>

> No more further talks, I need action from you now.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

, " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >

> > I will like to say that ponder and instead of sticking to some

> > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in

> depth

> > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like

this.

> So

> > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

whether

> > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due

to

> > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want

to

> > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

> examine

> > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you

have

> > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing

> in

> > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand

> the

> > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if

> you

> > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call

an

> > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >

> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> religious

> > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

Moon,

> > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only

> sages

> > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> predict

> > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

grabbing

> > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations

> etc.

> > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is

still

> > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> everybody

> > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation,

it

> > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate

of

> > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the

fate

> of

> > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

sages

> > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> principles

> > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >

> > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> percolated

> > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles

were

> > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

> system.

> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to

fit

> > past event very precisely within some astrological principle

within

> a

> > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

etc.,

> > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> astrological

> > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may

> come

> > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

self

> > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

mislead,

> > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find

> that

> > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology.

> But

> > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

> level

> > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

> following

> > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

subpara).

> >

> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> >

> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

> >

> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of

> each

> > other) ?

> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> > nector after sea-churning………..

> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> quarter

> > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

seventh

> > house) ?

> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

> >

> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted

and

> > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> > sign) ?

> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of

the

> > day is more in comparison to night……

> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub

> of

> > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus

> (a

> > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> between

> > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> >

> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

> >

> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

structure

> > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

> >

> > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180

deg.

> > apart?

> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

> >

> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> > Universe.

> >

> > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any

old

> > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

> beyond

> > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

> astrology

> > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination

is

> > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

concept

> > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view

of

> > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept

> of

> > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> astrology " Jyotish -

> > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains

> the

> > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the

> basis

> > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages

to

> > formulate these principles. This book was also published in

English

> > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face

of

> > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know

more

> > about the book or description of various chapters then you may

send

> > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836

> >

> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

20kumar%

> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> >

> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >

> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor

> they

> > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence

> of

> > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

> concept

> > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

mentioned

> in

> > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within

14

> > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But

> nobody

> > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when

> Sun,

> > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively

> on

> > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and

> Ketu

> > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-

1988

> (

> > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

eclipses

> > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04

> deg.

> > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

> 76.49

> > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

15.14

> > deg. away).

> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will

also

> > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at

the

> > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was

not

> > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

> myth).

> > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when

Moon

> > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But

> As

> > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985

and

> 3-

> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full

solar

> > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

> eclipses

> > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

> degree

> > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac.

> Thus

> > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively.

> All

> > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

fundamental

> > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want

then

> I

> > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

> them.

> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but

in

> > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

played

> an

> > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> immense

> > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

appears

> to

> > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also

agree

> > with the above observation after going through my original

> > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as

was

> > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to

> do

> > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that

> pre-

> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even

> then

> > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> cascading

> > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every

> Tom,

> > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good

deed

> > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change.

> You

> > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can

never

> > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> prewritten)

> > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered

> but

> > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can

be

> > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> > planets?

> >

> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured

> that

> > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

> astronomy

> > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> correct.

> > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

Still

> if

> > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

James

> > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort

> of

> > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this

regard

> > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information

of

> > Universe, solar system.

> >

> > I will like to have your critical comments for further

interaction

> on

> > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know

> > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling

in

> > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

(Astrology

> Is

> > Damaging Society).

> > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > Gwalior

> >

> > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> > problems to moderator

> >

>

November 26, 2007

Dear Mr. Sanat,

U deserve our regards, Thanx a lot for posting this mail to the

group. however, i w'd like to let u know, u r not alone who thinks

like this and carries same questions in his mind.

Our first problem is blind guruism, second problem is our literature

is not available containing the procedures,third problem is we are a

irresponsible selfish community whose life revolves around survival

issues and last problem is we were never procedure oriented, we

always concerned with end results, that's why no body tried to

rediscover which was destroyed and lastly we dont want to share our

knowledge easily.

still, astrology is of scientific nature, it's predictions come true

and it can describe ur looks without watching u.

you should do some work to find out these procedures, I will offer my

life long assistance to you.

regards,

Lalit.

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in

depth

> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this.

So

> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether

> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to

> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to

> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us

examine

> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have

> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing

in

> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand

the

> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if

you

> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> astrologer in the consumer forum.

>

> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

religious

> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon,

> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only

sages

> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

predict

> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing

> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations

etc.

> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still

> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

everybody

> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it

> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of

> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate

of

> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages

> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

principles

> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

>

> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

percolated

> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were

> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

system.

> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit

> past event very precisely within some astrological principle within

a

> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc.,

> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

astrological

> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may

come

> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self

> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead,

> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find

that

> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology.

But

> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

level

> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then

following

> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).

>

> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

>

> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

>

> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of

each

> other) ?

> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> nector after sea-churning………..

> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

quarter

> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh

> house) ?

> Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

>

> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and

> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> sign) ?

> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the

> day is more in comparison to night……

> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub

of

> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus

(a

> small planet) has 20 years ?

> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

between

> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

>

> Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

>

> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure

> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

>

> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg.

> apart?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

>

> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> Universe.

>

> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old

> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

beyond

> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying

astrology

> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is

> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept

> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of

> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept

of

> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> After lot of research I wrote an original book on

astrology " Jyotish -

> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains

the

> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the

basis

> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to

> formulate these principles. This book was also published in English

> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of

> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more

> about the book or description of various chapters then you may send

> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836

>

> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%

> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

>

> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

>

> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor

they

> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence

of

> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the

concept

> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned

in

> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14

> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But

nobody

> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when

Sun,

> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively

on

> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and

Ketu

> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988

(

> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses

> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04

deg.

> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

76.49

> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14

> deg. away).

> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also

> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the

> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not

> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

myth).

> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon

> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But

As

> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and

3-

> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar

> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar

eclipses

> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

degree

> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac.

Thus

> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively.

All

> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental

> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then

I

> can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

them.

> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in

> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played

an

> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

immense

> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears

to

> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree

> with the above observation after going through my original

> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was

> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to

do

> some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that

pre-

> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even

then

> all attached happening will automatically change creating a

cascading

> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every

Tom,

> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed

> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change.

You

> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never

> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

prewritten)

> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered

but

> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be

> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> planets?

>

> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured

that

> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only

astronomy

> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

correct.

> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still

if

> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James

> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort

of

> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard

> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of

> Universe, solar system.

>

> I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction

on

> my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know

> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in

> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology

Is

> Damaging Society).

> Sanat Kumar Jain

> Gwalior

>

> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> problems to moderator

>

November 26, 2007

Sanatji,

there is nothing about sentiment here - Astrology as taught by the

sages is correct and near 100% accurate - However in the intervening

period, there have been many things added/deleted and the original

work of the sages was lost. We should research this and reconstruct

the original astrology by testing out various principles.

In every group, you will see many people making close to 100% accurate

predictions.

I am against charlatan astrologers (sadly 99% of the folks today are),

charlatan books etc - But astrology is a science and art and it is

upto us and future generations in India to learn this great science

Regards

Kiran

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth

> but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So

> come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether

> astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to

> some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of

> astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to

> emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine

> it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have

> not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in

> support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been

> infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

> science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the

> problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you

> are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> astrologer in the consumer forum.

>

> At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious

> philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon,

> Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages

> had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict

> solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing

> the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc.

> to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still

> being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody

> is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it

> was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of

> deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of

> King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various

> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages

> based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles

> were the key factors for deciding the fate.

>

> Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated

> in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn

> such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were

> spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system.

> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group

> belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to

> their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit

> past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a

> capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc.,

> but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological

> principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come

> true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self

> praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other

> horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead,

> create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that

> only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say

> scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But

> none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level

> of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was

> adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following

> questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).

>

> 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

>

> It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary

> Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….

>

> 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and

> friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each

> other) ?

> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over

> nector after sea-churning………..

> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter

> to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh

> house) ?

> Based on the position of army in the battle field………..

>

> 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and

> debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries

> sign) ?

> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the

> day is more in comparison to night……

> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of

> our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a

> small planet) has 20 years ?

> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….

> 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between

> nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

>

> Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….

>

> 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure

> of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..

>

> 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of

> Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..

> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg.

> apart?

> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..

> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….

>

> Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to

> whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> Universe.

>

> Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage

> Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the

> centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all

> religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old

> scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond

> Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon.

> You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are

> actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology

> since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct

> prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is

> not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and

> systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept

> (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of

> modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of

> Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish -

> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the

> detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis

> of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to

> formulate these principles. This book was also published in English

> with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can

> realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of

> predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more

> about the book or description of various chapters then you may send

> email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836

>

> http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%

> 20jain & TAG= & CID=

>

> http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

>

> At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they

> were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of

> Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept

> of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in

> the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14

> degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody

> will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun,

> Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on

> 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu

> were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 (

> Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses

> occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then

> 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg.

> on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49

> deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14

> deg. away).

> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also

> find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the

> intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not

> known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth).

> Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon

> happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As

> per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3-

> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar

> eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses

> then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree

> respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible.

> Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus

> there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All

> horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental

> positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I

> can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them.

> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in

> primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy +

> psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an

> important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense

> faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to

> be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree

> with the above observation after going through my original

> revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was

> contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do

> some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-

> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre-

> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then

> all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading

> effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every

> person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-

> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom,

> Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed

> etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You

> will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never

> and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be

> altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also

> fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten)

> by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in

> that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but

> how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be

> changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> planets?

>

> Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that

> actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy

> and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct.

> Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if

> you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James

> Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and

> website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern

> technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to

> spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business

> interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of

> ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard

> and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of

> Universe, solar system.

>

> I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on

> my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know

> the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in

> the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is

> Damaging Society).

> Sanat Kumar Jain

> Gwalior

>

> Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating

> problems to moderator

>

November 26, 2007

Dear Sanatkumar,

Would you throw some light on why in the first instance Pluto was

classified by the modern and advanced astronomers as a planet and only

recently declassified from that status, before you question the

primitive (your words not mine) concept that gave the principles, that

are being used by even those who claim to have invented new methods of

astrological predictions.

Chandrashekhar.

sanat2221 wrote:

ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some