Tradition v/s non tradition

April 1, 2010

Dear Bhaskar-ji,

Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent

Bengal or Bengalis.

Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrs only).

I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6 yrs.

First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken in Kolkata

is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak / understand

almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong of Bangladesh.

So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.

Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many languages.

And earlier, it was the destination of all migration from Bihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.

Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.

If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubari etc.,

you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia in Upper Assam, then

probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that all people of WB/Assam

understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.

BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to "Jana-gana-mana". For your

kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.

If you have doubt, refer to the line

"Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba jaigatha"

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of BhaskarThursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

The National Anthem.I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language is thiswritten ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we standup in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language and throughwhat lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pureSanskrit or English or Hindi ?If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali orTelugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are alike. Sowhy not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by ShriChakroborty ji ?I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to W.Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations thereevery year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well andcan speak very well with use of " Aap" and "hum" and not like theMaharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalis butknowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Time passkarte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin. Faaltuissues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..regards/Bhaskar.This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 1, 2010

Dear Bhaskar-ji,

Then just write that Hindi has a better reach at this moment compared

to any other 'national language' (not regional language).

BTW, in TOI, (last Sunday, Agra edition) there was a survey about languages.

Regarding bi-linguality/multi-liguality, the survey points out that Konkani people

are most multi-lingual. Most poor performance comes from following lingustic groups

1) Hindi

2) Tamil

3) Bengali

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of BhaskarThursday, April 01, 2010 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

Again a misinterpretation by Your goodself.

You have been under a defective comprehensions that I have any apprehensions for the other languages.

I love all, including bengali, telugu, Konkani and any one .

Its the matter of a common language which

we are talking about which almost all understand

(except a few who have no shame though staying in India, but living

in their own tiny selfish worlds.)

.. And the only name that comes to our mind'

when we talk of a big geographical Region-Country, then it comes

of Hindi -

Words like "Superior" or "inferior" never come to my mind also, so forget mouthing or writing these, when it comes to talking about languages.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> > I understand what you are trying to say. But I beg to differ.> > I respect all the languages equally. So do most of the people.> > But your comprehension that 'Hindi is the National languages and others are Regional languages"> and hence Hindi is above par is not acceptable. Also comparing Hindi to sky and other languages> to small piece of land .....not in very good taste either.> > You are not even respecting Indian Constitution which gives equal status to all major languages> (including Hindi ) and term them as "national languages" ---- not as "regional languages". Hindi is> additionally an Official language along with English. That's all.> > We learn many languages because that helps us in communication. That's all. I learnt Hindi when> the need arose...not before that. Same with English. If posted in AP or TN for a long time, I will also> learn Telugu or Tamil.> > Let us respect our mother tongues ....but let not say that it is superior to x/y/z language and thereby> insult those languages.> > Please note that a language only flourishes with strong support ...which may be Royal / Govt. / Intelligentia.> Sanskrit / Farsi / Urdu had flourished at past with same reason. So does English and Hindi. If China becomes> only Super Power, we will learn Chinese too. So a language (Hindi) flourishing need not mean that other> languages are inferior.> > The politicians who could not think beyond Hindi belt --- intentionally popularized the mis-concept that Hindi> is "The National Language". This zingoism has created more hurdles for spread of this beautiful language.> Probably you are under the same mis-conception.> > regards> > > Chakraborty> > > > > ________________________________> On Behalf Of Bhaskar> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:34 PM> > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it ewith regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do not understand the language.> > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in Telugu. And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but not all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are not able to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and not with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and not English speaking. Right ?> > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult thing, is what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express his moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing wrong in that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi, Malyalee, or Telugu over here.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > , "Chakraborty, PL" CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar-ji,> >> > I don't think anybody has dislike / bias against Hindi per se.> >> > And I have noticed that may be 2% of times you do use Hindi...> > which is acceptable because people find it easier to express in their> > mother tongue. Bit would you accept it if somebody starts writing> > in Telugu or Tamil or Bengali ?> >> > But your other points...I find difficult to digest. Many of my friends> > used to watch Assamese films while they were in Assam..sometimes> > even Nepali films, without knowing the language. So people would watch> > Hindi movie even if they don't understand Hindi ....and would not watch> > South Indian films.... difficult to digest.> >> > Yes, ancient astrology was not written in English - Nor written in Hindi.> >> > People like me (non-Hindi speaking) find it easier to read & write English.> > Speaking / listening to any language is different than reading/writing the same.> >> > Exact translation is a very difficult thing....I remember watching a James Bond> > movie with Hindi sub-titles. The sub-titles killed all the enjoyment. An example :> >> > James Bond trying to kill a man in a toilet of a moving train. He goes to top side> > of the toilet....hangs upside down and fires a bullet with a comment -> >> > "Sorry, 'could not knock." - The same was translated as :> >> > "Mein Dukhit hoon ki mein darwaja khat-khatwa nehin"> >> >> >> > regards> >> > Chakraborty> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > On Behalf Of Bhaskar> > Thursday, April 01, 2010 12:50 PM> > > > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> >> >> >> > Dear all,> >> > Hindi is a commonly acceptable language, no doubts about this. Those not> > knowing Hindi language well, will still go to watch Hindi movies, While> > those not knowing South Indian languages would never go to watch a movie> > in a South Indian language. In same way those who do not know English> > would never go to watch a English movie, because certain movies in> > American spoken english, even we cannot understand properly what they> > are speaking, save for those smooching scenes which they do when they> > get up in the morning and indulge in without brushing their teeth or> > kissing when happy, kissing when crying, or kissing when going out of> > room , or kissing when coming in. This is all the English we normally> > understand in English movies...> >> > This is a Group where work is done in English, but was Ancient Asrology> > done or wrritten or spoken in English ? Then why so much bias against> > Hindi ? I agree that we must use the English language for conversations> > here considering the Cosmopolitan membership here, but this does not> > mean that once in a while we cannot express our feelings in the commonly> > understood language - Hindi ? At times one is able to express better in> > the Home language.> >> > Try to translate this in English -> >> > Tum mujhe acchi lagti ho, unke paas jao aur unko kaho yeh baat, ki aapki> > beti ko main pasand karte hain.. uske baad mere pass aao aur batao ki> > unhone kya kaha...> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> > <%40>, "gopalakrishna"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected sree Kursija ji,> > > //May I request you please do not raise the issue of language.//> > > why not sir?I raised it since some one did not heed to many pleas many> > > times.That post was directed to me in hindi and i am supposed to> > respond> > > just as i am responding to you.I responded but not reacted.I am afraid> > > you are reacting.I know language is sensitive issue whether national> > or> > > international.I responded on behalf of others aswell who were> > requesting> > > the same for long.I am restraining myself here.......> > > //The Hindi is nothing but the mixture of Sanskrit, Urdu and other> > > languages spoken in India even English and Telgu. //> > > I dont know and i am not sure.> > > //Every learned citizen of India more or less knows Hindi. As you> > refer> > > dictionary for English you can refer dictionary for Hindi also. It is> > > only will to learn.> > > > I beg pardon if it hurt any body. But it is only truth.//> > > How can you say that which means those who did not know hindi are NOT> > > LEARNED!!!!Will to learn is one's own freedom.We got freedom i believe> > > long back.At least we all have freedom of speach and expression.It did> > > not hurt me for sure.But i am sure it hurts many.For your kind> > > information i know hindi.It does not mean that every indian should> > > know!!!...I dont know what truth you are talking about?!!!...> > > Lastly i want to know why should we write hindi when we know english> > in> > > an english language group?That's all my question......I am not> > > supporting any particular language here........why dont we stick to> > > english in an english language group just as we should stick to hindi> > in> > > hindi language group?> > > Regards,> > > gopi.> > >> > > <%40>, "S.C. Kursija"> > > sckursija@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Sh. Gopal Krishana Ji,> > > > May I request you please do not raise the issue of language. Any> > > language is the medium of communication. You must be knowingÂ> > > Sanskrit. The Hindi is nothing but the mixture of Sanskrit, Urdu and> > > other languages spoken in India even English and Telgu. Whether you> > > accept it as national language or not it is widely spoken in India.> > > Every learned citizen of India more or less knows Hindi. As you refer> > > dictionary for English you can refer dictionary for Hindi also. It is> > > only will to learn.> > > > I beg pardon if it hurt any body. But it is only truth.> > > >> > > > --- On Tue, 3/30/10, gopalakrishna gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > gopalakrishna gopi_b927@> > > > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > <%40>> > > > Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 9:53 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Â> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I dont understand hindi well as i am also a telugu guy like you.This> > > is an english language group and remember the requests of> > many!!...Hindi> > > is not our national language (yet)....... either... .> > > > Love ,regards,hugs and everything you want;> > > > gopi.> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Gopi ji Sreenadhji ko, Love bhi likho na, sirf Hugs se kya hoga..> > > > >> > > > > aur mujhe bhi likho na , Love and hugs...main bhi boora aadmi> > nahin> > > > > hoon, sirf kabhi kabhi khopdi apni jagah se khisak jaati hai> > > oherwise> > > > > normally main baaki sab se toh accha hoon..> > > > >> > > > > Love and hugs and regards,> > > > >> > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks a lot Sreenadh ji....> > > > > > hugs and regards,> > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "sreesog"> > > sreesog@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > > > > > That was truly a good post, and thanks to you for forwarding.> > > Even> > > > > > if> > > > > > > it was me who saw that message, me too would have forwarded> > that> > > to> > > > > > this> > > > > > > group. I truly appreciate it. When we find something good and> > > > > useful,> > > > > > > we all (as members of this astro group) feel like sharing it> > > with> > > > > our> > > > > > > friends, and that is how we should be be. Thanks to you for> > the> > > nice> > > > > > > post and please keep continue forwarding such good messages.> > Me> > > too> > > > > > > does the same when ever I find a good message.> > > > > > > Love and hugs,> > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > > > thanks to you as well for apreciation of both.In fact i> > never> > > had> > > > > > any> > > > > > > > purpose etc Bhaskar ji was questioning. I just felt it is a> > > good> > > > > post> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > be sent across.In fact i dont deserve any apreciation/> > > depreciation> > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > those thoughts are not mine in that post......> > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "sreesog"> > > > > sreesog@> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji and Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > > > > Good mails from both of you. Thanks to Gopi ji for> > > forwarding> > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > mail, and thanks to Bhaskar ji for that nice original> > reply!> > > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "Bhaskar"> > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sirs,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The purpose of posting this message here is not quite> > > clear.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What message is being attempted to send across ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What point is being tried to emphasised ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Many people who have not learnt to dance ever, find> > Discos> > > > > > > > abhorrable.> > > > > > > > > > Many who have not learnt to smile ever, cannot digest> > > other> > > > > > people> > > > > > > > > > laughing.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. Wendy is one of the best traditional Astrologers I> > > have> > > > > > ever> > > > > > > > come> > > > > > > > > > across. She is the only one I would vouch for save a few> > > from> > > > > > our> > > > > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > > > > lot, for referring a freinds chart to somebody.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > And by the way she knows what is KP astrology. She has> > > gone> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > grind of almost all systems as far as I have studied> > here> > > > > > > writings,> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > am aware of.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Forget Mr. andrews, He is not an authority to comment.> > He> > > is> > > > > not> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > milestone to judge the kms on the road. he is not a> > > > > > representative> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > the whole can.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > While aggreeing to all mentioned in this post - I do not> > > agree> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > statement "However, like oil and water, the two don't> > seem> > > to> > > > > > mix> > > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > well. " If she has mentioned this in a generlised> > manner,> > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > apparently she has, with full credit to her, then I> > > > > > wholeheartedly> > > > > > > > > agree> > > > > > > > > > to her. But there are exceptions in this world, like> > > persons> > > > > > like> > > > > > > > me,> > > > > > > > > > who can and know how to mix these well, and which is> > what> > > I> > > > > have> > > > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > > doing since last 3 years sojourn on these forums. and I> > > have> > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > > successful to a great extent and proud of this fact,> > that> > > many> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > members have through my writings realised the value of> > the> > > > > bhava> > > > > > > > > Chalit,> > > > > > > > > > nakshatra system of approach, and many such observations> > > which> > > > > > go> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > long> > > > > > > > > > way in turning one towards more precesion while> > predicting> > > in> > > > > > > > > Astrology.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > We have a habit to cling towards the negative aspects of> > > every> > > > > > > > colour> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > the spectrum and have forgotten to enjoy the positives.> > > Same> > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > Astrology. Let us also learn to look at the sunny side.> > > sure> > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > brightness is seen from some or the other corner of the> > > room.> > > > > > Till> > > > > > > > > > bhaskar is there do not bother about the darkness.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > best wishes,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear ones,> > > > > > > > > > > i am po(a)sting here a message from a respected> > > astrologer> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > another> > > > > > > > > > > group which i find worthy.....> > > > > > > > > > > //Dear Group,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Although I'm sure this is not a new phenomenon, it> > does> > > seem> > > > > > to> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > ever> > > > > > > > > > > increasing trend in this day and age for burgeoning> > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > turn> > > > > > > > > > > away> > > > > > > > > > > from traditional teaching in favor of a> > non-traditional> > > > > > > approach.> > > > > > > > Of> > > > > > > > > > > course> > > > > > > > > > > everyone, as dictated by their karma, is free to> > follow> > > > > > whatever> > > > > > > > > path> > > > > > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > > > choose without condemnation. ..after all none of us> > are> > > free> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > grip of> > > > > > > > > > > karma. My only interest here is to investigate the> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > influences that> > > > > > > > > > > support either traditional or non-traditional views.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > First to consider, of course, is the 9th house of> > dharma> > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > signifies> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > vedic sciences, including what is referred to as 'the> > > eye of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > veda'> > > > > > > > > > > (jyotish)> > > > > > > > > > > as well as ayurveda which is closely linked with the> > > natal> > > > > > > chart.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This auspicious house also signifies such things as> > > wisdom,> > > > > > > guru,> > > > > > > > > > > religion,> > > > > > > > > > > faith and so forth. Naturally enough if this house, or> > > its> > > > > > > karaka> > > > > > > > > > > (Jupiter), is> > > > > > > > > > > weak or afflicted (by conjunction or aspect) the> > > > > > significations> > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > suffer in> > > > > > > > > > > proportion to the level of affliction and we may find> > > > > someone> > > > > > > who> > > > > > > > > > turns> > > > > > > > > > > away> > > > > > > > > > > from traditional teaching, whether it be religion or> > > > > jyotish,> > > > > > > > > favoring> > > > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > unconventional paths over those of traditional> > teachers.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Another important house to consider is 2nd house of> > > learning> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > speech.> > > > > > > > > > > This> > > > > > > > > > > house signifies education as well as educators. Rahu> > in> > > this> > > > > > > > house,> > > > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > instance, can indicate breaks in education and/or> > > someone> > > > > with> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > strong> > > > > > > > > > > compulsion to be an educator. As the significator of> > > speech,> > > > > > > > Mercury> > > > > > > > > > > also needs> > > > > > > > > > > to be considered here i.e. is Mercury associated with> > > > > malefics> > > > > > > > etc..> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The quality of our imagination is also seen from this> > > house.> > > > > > One> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > India's> > > > > > > > > > > greatest poets, Rabindranath Tagore, has exalted Sun> > in> > > this> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > along> > > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > Mercury and Venus whilst karaka (lagnesh Jupiter),> > > > > exchanging> > > > > > > > signs> > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > Moon,> > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in 5th house of literary works.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As so many astrologers today communicate and/or offer> > > their> > > > > > > > services> > > > > > > > > > via> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > internet, 3rd house of (written) communication and> > > karaka> > > > > > (Mars)> > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > need to be> > > > > > > > > > > considered in terms of placement/dignity and/or> > malefic> > > > > > > > > > > conjunction/ aspect.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Many people consider 8th house (12th from 9th) to be> > > > > > significant> > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > terms of> > > > > > > > > > > astrology. I agree, but more-so in regards to the> > > > > > > non-traditional> > > > > > > > > > > approach. This> > > > > > > > > > > house, as we know, is associated with tantra and> > > certainly,> > > > > if> > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > > > > fortified> > > > > > > > > > > and supported by the rest of the horoscope, increases> > > > > > intuition> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > favors> > > > > > > > > > > moksha. However, in the context of jyotish, it's> > > generally> > > > > > > > > recognised> > > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > different from the vedic tradition. My view here is> > > that,> > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > traditional> > > > > > > > > > > wisdom/religion to prevail, 9th house needs to be the> > > > > stronger> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > two. No> > > > > > > > > > > doubt 9th lord in 8th lends more emphasis towards the> > > > > > > > > non-traditional.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not judging this to be either good or bad> > > BTW...simply> > > > > > > showing> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > astrological pointers that could lead a person towards> > > one> > > > > > path> > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > other, or> > > > > > > > > > > even a blend of the two. The same Sun shines (equally)> > > on> > > > > both> > > > > > > > > > > traditional and> > > > > > > > > > > non-traditional astrologers. However, like oil and> > > water,> > > > > the> > > > > > > two> > > > > > > > > > don't> > > > > > > > > > > seem to> > > > > > > > > > > mix very well.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps some of our long-standing members will> > remember> > > > > > > astrologer> > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Lynn,> > > > > > > > > > > a student of the late Pundit Navaratnam. Andrew> > followed> > > the> > > > > > KP> > > > > > > > > method> > > > > > > > > > > and was,> > > > > > > > > > > at one time, quite active on the various groups> > speaking> > > out> > > > > > > > > strongly> > > > > > > > > > > against> > > > > > > > > > > traditional astrologers. Apparently he turned away> > from> > > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > > > > > altogether a> > > > > > > > > > > couple of years ago stating emphatically that> > astrology> > > > > simply> > > > > > > > > didn't> > > > > > > > > > > work...to> > > > > > > > > > > me that's almost akin to saying that the Sun doesn't> > > shine.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Of course there are times when the Sun may be covered> > by> > > > > > clouds> > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > > time,> > > > > > > > > > > especially if you live in England; likewise there may> > > often> > > > > be> > > > > > > > > cloudy> > > > > > > > > > > days in> > > > > > > > > > > the life of astrologers when all seems to be dark and> > > > > gloomy;> > > > > > > but,> > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > the Sun,> > > > > > > > > > > it's only a passing phase. Truth is eternal...> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes> > > > > > > > > > > Mrs.Wendy> > > > > > > > > > > http://JyotishVidya .com <http://jyotishvidya .com/>> > > > > > > > > > > ============ =======//> > > > > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.> >> > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>

This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 1, 2010

Dear All,

I don't think this is the right place to discuss language issues. As far as my view is concerned I am a punjabi but I acknowledge that the national language of our motherland is hindi and there should be no dubt about that.

We all love our languages but should not epect others to start communicating in our own language. Hindi is a language that is widespread in our country so please do not bicker over this issue. If you have a problem understanding youcan request someone to translate the para written in hindi to English or your language on the condition that someone having knowledge of your language is willing to do so.

It is better we focus our energy on purpose i.e to discuss astrology and gain some knowledge.

Warm regards,

Micky --- On Thu, 1/4/10, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Re: Tradition v/s non tradition Date: Thursday, 1 April, 2010, 2:19 PM

Again a misinterpretation by Your goodself.

You have been under a defective comprehensions that I have any apprehensions for the other languages.

I love all, including bengali, telugu, Konkani and any one .

Its the matter of a common language which

we are talking about which almost all understand

(except a few who have no shame though staying in India, but living

in their own tiny selfish worlds.)

.. And the only name that comes to our mind'

when we talk of a big geographical Region-Country, then it comes

of Hindi -

Words like "Superior" or "inferior" never come to my mind also, so forget mouthing or writing these, when it comes to talking about languages.

regards,

Bhaskar.

ancient_indian_ astrology, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> > I understand what you are trying to say. But I beg to differ.> > I respect all the languages equally. So do most of the people.> > But your comprehension that 'Hindi is the National languages and others are Regional languages"> and hence Hindi is above par is not acceptable. Also comparing Hindi to sky and other languages> to small piece of land .....not in very good taste either.> > You are not even respecting Indian Constitution which gives equal status to all major languages> (including Hindi ) and term them as "national languages" ---- not as "regional languages". Hindi is> additionally an Official language along with English. That's all.> > We learn many languages because that helps us in

communication. That's all. I learnt Hindi when> the need arose...not before that. Same with English. If posted in AP or TN for a long time, I will also> learn Telugu or Tamil.> > Let us respect our mother tongues ....but let not say that it is superior to x/y/z language and thereby> insult those languages.> > Please note that a language only flourishes with strong support ...which may be Royal / Govt. / Intelligentia.> Sanskrit / Farsi / Urdu had flourished at past with same reason. So does English and Hindi. If China becomes> only Super Power, we will learn Chinese too. So a language (Hindi) flourishing need not mean that other> languages are inferior.> > The politicians who could not think beyond Hindi belt --- intentionally popularized the mis-concept that Hindi> is "The National Language". This zingoism has created more hurdles for spread of this beautiful

language.> Probably you are under the same mis-conception.> > regards> > > Chakraborty> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> ancient_indian_ astrology [ancient_ indian_astrology ] On Behalf Of Bhaskar> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:34 PM> ancient_indian_ astrology> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it ewith regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do not understand the language.> > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was

"Shiva" both in Telugu. And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but not all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are not able to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and not with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and not English speaking. Right ?> > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult thing, is what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express his moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing wrong in that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi, Malyalee, or Telugu over here.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Chakraborty, PL" CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:> >>

> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> >> > I don't think anybody has dislike / bias against Hindi per se.> >> > And I have noticed that may be 2% of times you do use Hindi...> > which is acceptable because people find it easier to express in their> > mother tongue. Bit would you accept it if somebody starts writing> > in Telugu or Tamil or Bengali ?> >> > But your other points...I find difficult to digest. Many of my friends> > used to watch Assamese films while they were in Assam..sometimes> > even Nepali films, without knowing the language. So people would watch> > Hindi movie even if they don't understand Hindi ....and would not watch> > South Indian films.... difficult to digest.> >> > Yes, ancient astrology was not written in English - Nor written in Hindi.> >> > People like me (non-Hindi

speaking) find it easier to read & write English.> > Speaking / listening to any language is different than reading/writing the same.> >> > Exact translation is a very difficult thing....I remember watching a James Bond> > movie with Hindi sub-titles. The sub-titles killed all the enjoyment. An example :> >> > James Bond trying to kill a man in a toilet of a moving train. He goes to top side> > of the toilet....hangs upside down and fires a bullet with a comment -> >> > "Sorry, 'could not knock." - The same was translated as :> >> > "Mein Dukhit hoon ki mein darwaja khat-khatwa nehin"> >> >> >> > regards> >> > Chakraborty> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > ancient_indian_

astrology [ancient_ indian_astrology ] On Behalf Of Bhaskar> > Thursday, April 01, 2010 12:50 PM> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> >> >> >> > Dear all,> >> > Hindi is a commonly acceptable language, no doubts about this. Those not> > knowing Hindi language well, will still go to watch Hindi movies, While> > those not knowing South Indian languages would never go to watch a movie> > in a South Indian language. In same way those who do not know English> > would never go to watch a English movie, because certain movies in> > American spoken english, even we cannot understand properly what they> > are speaking, save for those smooching scenes which they do when they>

> get up in the morning and indulge in without brushing their teeth or> > kissing when happy, kissing when crying, or kissing when going out of> > room , or kissing when coming in. This is all the English we normally> > understand in English movies...> >> > This is a Group where work is done in English, but was Ancient Asrology> > done or wrritten or spoken in English ? Then why so much bias against> > Hindi ? I agree that we must use the English language for conversations> > here considering the Cosmopolitan membership here, but this does not> > mean that once in a while we cannot express our feelings in the commonly> > understood language - Hindi ? At times one is able to express better in> > the Home language.> >> > Try to translate this in English -> >> > Tum mujhe acchi lagti ho, unke paas jao aur

unko kaho yeh baat, ki aapki> > beti ko main pasand karte hain.. uske baad mere pass aao aur batao ki> > unhone kya kaha...> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com>, "gopalakrishna"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected sree Kursija ji,> > > //May I request you please do not raise the issue of language.//> > > why not sir?I raised it since some one did not heed to many pleas many> > > times.That post was directed to me in hindi and i am supposed to> > respond> > > just as i am responding to you.I responded but not reacted.I am afraid> > > you are reacting.I know language is sensitive issue whether national> > or> > > international. I

responded on behalf of others aswell who were> > requesting> > > the same for long.I am restraining myself here.......> > > //The Hindi is nothing but the mixture of Sanskrit, Urdu and other> > > languages spoken in India even English and Telgu. //> > > I dont know and i am not sure.> > > //Every learned citizen of India more or less knows Hindi. As you> > refer> > > dictionary for English you can refer dictionary for Hindi also. It is> > > only will to learn.> > > > I beg pardon if it hurt any body. But it is only truth.//> > > How can you say that which means those who did not know hindi are NOT> > > LEARNED!!!!Will to learn is one's own freedom.We got freedom i believe> > > long back.At least we all have freedom of speach and expression.It did> > > not hurt me for sure.But i

am sure it hurts many.For your kind> > > information i know hindi.It does not mean that every indian should> > > know!!!...I dont know what truth you are talking about?!!!...> > > Lastly i want to know why should we write hindi when we know english> > in> > > an english language group?That's all my question.... ..I am not> > > supporting any particular language here........ why dont we stick to> > > english in an english language group just as we should stick to hindi> > in> > > hindi language group?> > > Regards,> > > gopi.> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com>, "S.C. Kursija"> > > sckursija@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Sh. Gopal Krishana Ji,> > >

> May I request you please do not raise the issue of language. Any> > > language is the medium of communication. You must be knowingÃ‚> > > Sanskrit. The Hindi is nothing but the mixture of Sanskrit, Urdu and> > > other languages spoken in India even English and Telgu. Whether you> > > accept it as national language or not it is widely spoken in India.> > > Every learned citizen of India more or less knows Hindi. As you refer> > > dictionary for English you can refer dictionary for Hindi also. It is> > > only will to learn.> > > > I beg pardon if it hurt any body. But it is only truth.> > > >> > > > --- On Tue, 3/30/10, gopalakrishna gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > gopalakrishna gopi_b927@> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:

Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com>> > > > Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 9:53 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Ã‚> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I dont understand hindi well as i am also a telugu guy like you.This> > > is an english language group and remember the requests of> > many!!...Hindi> > > is not our national language (yet)....... either... .> > > > Love ,regards,hugs and everything you want;> > > > gopi.> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Gopi ji Sreenadhji

ko, Love bhi likho na, sirf Hugs se kya hoga..> > > > >> > > > > aur mujhe bhi likho na , Love and hugs...main bhi boora aadmi> > nahin> > > > > hoon, sirf kabhi kabhi khopdi apni jagah se khisak jaati hai> > > oherwise> > > > > normally main baaki sab se toh accha hoon..> > > > >> > > > > Love and hugs and regards,> > > > >> > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks a lot Sreenadh ji....> > > > > > hugs and regards,> > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > --- In

ancient_indian_ astrology, "sreesog"> > > sreesog@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > > > > > That was truly a good post, and thanks to you for forwarding.> > > Even> > > > > > if> > > > > > > it was me who saw that message, me too would have forwarded> > that> > > to> > > > > > this> > > > > > > group. I truly appreciate it. When we find something good and> > > > > useful,> > > > > > > we all (as members of this astro group) feel like sharing it> > > with> > > > > our> > > > > > > friends, and that is how we should be be. Thanks to you for> > the> >

> nice> > > > > > > post and please keep continue forwarding such good messages.> > Me> > > too> > > > > > > does the same when ever I find a good message.> > > > > > > Love and hugs,> > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > > > thanks to you as well for apreciation of both.In fact i> > never> > > had> > > > > > any> > > > > > > > purpose etc Bhaskar ji was questioning. I just felt it is a> > > good>

> > > > post> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > be sent across.In fact i dont deserve any apreciation/> > > depreciation> > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > those thoughts are not mine in that post......> > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "sreesog"> > > > > sreesog@> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji and Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > > > > Good mails from both of you. Thanks to Gopi ji for> > > forwarding> > > > > > > > that> > > >

> > > > > mail, and thanks to Bhaskar ji for that nice original> > reply!> > > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "Bhaskar"> > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sirs,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The purpose of posting this message here is not quite> > > clear.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What message is being attempted to

send across ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What point is being tried to emphasised ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Many people who have not learnt to dance ever, find> > Discos> > > > > > > > abhorrable.> > > > > > > > > > Many who have not learnt to smile ever, cannot digest> > > other> > > > > > people> > > > > > > > > > laughing.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. Wendy is one of the best traditional Astrologers I> > > have> > > > > > ever> > > > > > > > come> > > > > > > > > > across. She is

the only one I would vouch for save a few> > > from> > > > > > our> > > > > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > > > > lot, for referring a freinds chart to somebody.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > And by the way she knows what is KP astrology. She has> > > gone> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > grind of almost all systems as far as I have studied> > here> > > > > > > writings,> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > am aware of.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Forget Mr. andrews, He is not

an authority to comment.> > He> > > is> > > > > not> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > milestone to judge the kms on the road. he is not a> > > > > > representative> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > the whole can.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > While aggreeing to all mentioned in this post - I do not> > > agree> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > statement "However, like oil and water, the two don't> > seem> > > to> > > > > > mix> > > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > well. " If she

has mentioned this in a generlised> > manner,> > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > apparently she has, with full credit to her, then I> > > > > > wholeheartedly> > > > > > > > > agree> > > > > > > > > > to her. But there are exceptions in this world, like> > > persons> > > > > > like> > > > > > > > me,> > > > > > > > > > who can and know how to mix these well, and which is> > what> > > I> > > > > have> > > > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > > doing since last 3 years sojourn on these forums. and I> > > have> > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > >

successful to a great extent and proud of this fact,> > that> > > many> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > members have through my writings realised the value of> > the> > > > > bhava> > > > > > > > > Chalit,> > > > > > > > > > nakshatra system of approach, and many such observations> > > which> > > > > > go> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > long> > > > > > > > > > way in turning one towards more precesion while> > predicting> > > in> > > > > > > > > Astrology.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

We have a habit to cling towards the negative aspects of> > > every> > > > > > > > colour> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > the spectrum and have forgotten to enjoy the positives.> > > Same> > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > Astrology. Let us also learn to look at the sunny side.> > > sure> > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > brightness is seen from some or the other corner of the> > > room.> > > > > > Till> > > > > > > > > > bhaskar is there do not bother about the darkness.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > best wishes,> > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "gopalakrishna"> > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear ones,> > > > > > > > > > > i am po(a)sting here a message from a respected> > > astrologer> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > another> > > > > > > > > > > group which i find worthy.....> > > > > >

> > > > > //Dear Group,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Although I'm sure this is not a new phenomenon, it> > does> > > seem> > > > > > to> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > ever> > > > > > > > > > > increasing trend in this day and age for burgeoning> > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > turn> > > > > > > > > > > away> > > > > > > > > > > from traditional teaching in favor of a> > non-traditional> > > > > > > approach.> > > > > > >

> Of> > > > > > > > > > > course> > > > > > > > > > > everyone, as dictated by their karma, is free to> > follow> > > > > > whatever> > > > > > > > > path> > > > > > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > > > choose without condemnation. ..after all none of us> > are> > > free> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > grip of> > > > > > > > > > > karma. My only interest here is to investigate the> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > influences that> > > > > > > > > > > support either

traditional or non-traditional views.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > First to consider, of course, is the 9th house of> > dharma> > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > signifies> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > vedic sciences, including what is referred to as 'the> > > eye of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > veda'> > > > > > > > > > > (jyotish)> > > > > > > > > > > as well as ayurveda which is closely linked with the> > > natal> > > > > > > chart.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > This auspicious house also signifies such things as> > > wisdom,> > > > > > > guru,> > > > > > > > > > > religion,> > > > > > > > > > > faith and so forth. Naturally enough if this house, or> > > its> > > > > > > karaka> > > > > > > > > > > (Jupiter), is> > > > > > > > > > > weak or afflicted (by conjunction or aspect) the> > > > > > significations> > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > suffer in> > > > > > > > > > > proportion to the level of affliction and we may find> > > > > someone> > > > > > > who> > > > > > > > > >

turns> > > > > > > > > > > away> > > > > > > > > > > from traditional teaching, whether it be religion or> > > > > jyotish,> > > > > > > > > favoring> > > > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > unconventional paths over those of traditional> > teachers.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Another important house to consider is 2nd house of> > > learning> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > speech.> > > > > > > > > > > This> > > > > > > > > > > house signifies education as well as educators. Rahu> > in> > >

this> > > > > > > > house,> > > > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > instance, can indicate breaks in education and/or> > > someone> > > > > with> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > strong> > > > > > > > > > > compulsion to be an educator. As the significator of> > > speech,> > > > > > > > Mercury> > > > > > > > > > > also needs> > > > > > > > > > > to be considered here i.e. is Mercury associated with> > > > > malefics> > > > > > > > etc..> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The quality of our

imagination is also seen from this> > > house.> > > > > > One> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > India's> > > > > > > > > > > greatest poets, Rabindranath Tagore, has exalted Sun> > in> > > this> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > along> > > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > Mercury and Venus whilst karaka (lagnesh Jupiter),> > > > > exchanging> > > > > > > > signs> > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > Moon,> > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in 5th house of literary works.> > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As so many astrologers today communicate and/or offer> > > their> > > > > > > > services> > > > > > > > > > via> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > internet, 3rd house of (written) communication and> > > karaka> > > > > > (Mars)> > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > need to be> > > > > > > > > > > considered in terms of placement/dignity and/or> > malefic> > > > > > > > > > > conjunction/ aspect.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

Many people consider 8th house (12th from 9th) to be> > > > > > significant> > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > terms of> > > > > > > > > > > astrology. I agree, but more-so in regards to the> > > > > > > non-traditional> > > > > > > > > > > approach. This> > > > > > > > > > > house, as we know, is associated with tantra and> > > certainly,> > > > > if> > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > > > > fortified> > > > > > > > > > > and supported by the rest of the horoscope, increases> > > > > > intuition> > > > > > > > and> > > > > >

> > > > > favors> > > > > > > > > > > moksha. However, in the context of jyotish, it's> > > generally> > > > > > > > > recognised> > > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > different from the vedic tradition. My view here is> > > that,> > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > traditional> > > > > > > > > > > wisdom/religion to prevail, 9th house needs to be the> > > > > stronger> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > two. No> > > > > > > > > > > doubt 9th lord in 8th lends more emphasis towards the> > > > >

> > > > non-traditional.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not judging this to be either good or bad> > > BTW...simply> > > > > > > showing> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > astrological pointers that could lead a person towards> > > one> > > > > > path> > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > other, or> > > > > > > > > > > even a blend of the two. The same Sun shines (equally)> > > on> > > > > both> > > > > > > > > > > traditional and> > > > > > > > > > >

non-traditional astrologers. However, like oil and> > > water,> > > > > the> > > > > > > two> > > > > > > > > > don't> > > > > > > > > > > seem to> > > > > > > > > > > mix very well.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps some of our long-standing members will> > remember> > > > > > > astrologer> > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Lynn,> > > > > > > > > > > a student of the late Pundit Navaratnam. Andrew> > followed> > > the> > > > > > KP> > > > > > > > > method> > > > > > > > > > > and

was,> > > > > > > > > > > at one time, quite active on the various groups> > speaking> > > out> > > > > > > > > strongly> > > > > > > > > > > against> > > > > > > > > > > traditional astrologers. Apparently he turned away> > from> > > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > > > > > altogether a> > > > > > > > > > > couple of years ago stating emphatically that> > astrology> > > > > simply> > > > > > > > > didn't> > > > > > > > > > > work...to> > > > > > > > > > > me that's almost akin to saying that the Sun doesn't> > > shine.> > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Of course there are times when the Sun may be covered> > by> > > > > > clouds> > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > > time,> > > > > > > > > > > especially if you live in England; likewise there may> > > often> > > > > be> > > > > > > > > cloudy> > > > > > > > > > > days in> > > > > > > > > > > the life of astrologers when all seems to be dark and> > > > > gloomy;> > > > > > > but,> > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > >

the Sun,> > > > > > > > > > > it's only a passing phase. Truth is eternal...> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes> > > > > > > > > > > Mrs.Wendy> > > > > > > > > > > http://JyotishVidya .com <http://jyotishvidya .com/>> > > > > > > > > > > ============ =======//> > > > > > > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > >> >> >> >> > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.> >> > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or

copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>

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April 1, 2010

Chakroborty Sahab,

How much time you are spending in this and making me spend too...?

1) What language is the National Anthem comprised of ?

2) Does it not contain any words used in Hindi...?

3) Why is the Anthem based on the language, it is based upon ?

4) Why not is the Anthem based upon regional languages liek Bengali,

Telugu, Tamil etc?

I dont think what you conclude I think. The problem lies in your

understanding about what i think. The previous mail also you mentioned

that I had made a comparison of sky and a piece of land in bad taste.

That time also you had concluded wrongly but I let it go, cannot justify

everything you consider otherwise. But what was in bad taste, comparing

a regional area- State, to the whole of India- Country - as the piece of

land and the sky respectively ?

regards/Bhaskar.

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar-ji,

>

> Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent

> Bengal or Bengalis.

>

> Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrs

only).

> I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6

yrs.

>

> First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken in

Kolkata

> is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak /

understand

> almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong of

Bangladesh.

> So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.

>

> Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many languages.

> And earlier, it was the destination of all migration from

Bihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.

> Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.

>

> If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubari

etc.,

> you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia in

Upper Assam, then

> probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that all

people of WB/Assam

> understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.

>

> BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to " Jana-gana-mana " .

For your

> kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.

>

> If you have doubt, refer to the line

>

> " Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba jaigatha "

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

________________________________

>

On Behalf Of Bhaskar

> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM

>

> Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

>

> The National Anthem.

>

> I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language is

this

> written ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we stand

> up in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language and

through

> what lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pure

> Sanskrit or English or Hindi ?

>

> If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali or

> Telugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are alike.

So

> why not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by Shri

> Chakroborty ji ?

>

> I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to W.

> Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations there

> every year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well and

> can speak very well with use of " Aap " and " hum " and not like the

> Maharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalis

but

> knowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???

>

> bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Time

pass

> karte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin. Faaltu

> issues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,

India. The information contained in this electronic message and any

attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the

addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged

information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not

disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender

immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

>

April 1, 2010

Dear Bhaskar-ji,

I write based upon impressions I get from your mails.

I know the exchange of mails wastes time..yours and mine included.

That's why I wrote in initial mail that 'Let's move on'.

I again replied because of the mis-representation of facts ...national/regional.

If Constitution of India accepts all major languages as 'national Language' then

what is the hurdle in accepting it as it is...rather than giving your own terminology.

Now coming to your questions...

1)What language is the National Anthem comprised of ?

It is Bengali. Rabindranath Tagore was a Bengali & he did write

in Bengali only. (I am excluding the few translations he did in English)2) Does it not contain any words used in Hindi...?

Hindi / Sanskrit / Bengali (and many other Indian languages) have many

words in common. So, the question is mis-placed3) Why is the Anthem based on the language, it is based upon ?

It is based on Bengali.4) Why not is the Anthem based upon regional languages liek Bengali,Telugu, Tamil etc?

Again it is based on Bengali...your so-called 'regional language'.

That's why I asked you to refer the lines. Probably you did not check.

BTW, for some reason, I have ample time to kill ... at least another 3-4 days.

So, I decided to reply. You could have skipped the discussion.

'Hope you have enjoyed the discussion. If not, then I apologize.

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of BhaskarThursday, April 01, 2010 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

Chakroborty Sahab,How much time you are spending in this and making me spend too...?1) What language is the National Anthem comprised of ?2) Does it not contain any words used in Hindi...?3) Why is the Anthem based on the language, it is based upon ?4) Why not is the Anthem based upon regional languages liek Bengali,Telugu, Tamil etc?I dont think what you conclude I think. The problem lies in yourunderstanding about what i think. The previous mail also you mentionedthat I had made a comparison of sky and a piece of land in bad taste.That time also you had concluded wrongly but I let it go, cannot justifyeverything you consider otherwise. But what was in bad taste, comparinga regional area- State, to the whole of India- Country - as the piece ofland and the sky respectively ?regards/Bhaskar. , "Chakraborty, PL"<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,>> Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent> Bengal or Bengalis.>> Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrsonly).> I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6yrs.>> First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken inKolkata> is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak /understand> almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong ofBangladesh.> So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.>> Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many languages.> And earlier, it was the destination of all migration fromBihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.> Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.>> If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubarietc.,> you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia inUpper Assam, then> probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that allpeople of WB/Assam> understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.>> BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to "Jana-gana-mana".For your> kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.>> If you have doubt, refer to the line>> "Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba jaigatha">>> regards>> Chakraborty>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________> [ ] On Behalf Of Bhaskar> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM> > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition>>>> The National Anthem.>> I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language isthis> written ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we stand> up in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language andthrough> what lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pure> Sanskrit or English or Hindi ?>> If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali or> Telugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are alike.So> why not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by Shri> Chakroborty ji ?>> I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to W.> Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations there> every year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well and> can speak very well with use of " Aap" and "hum" and not like the> Maharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalisbut> knowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???>> bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Timepass> karte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin. Faaltu> issues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..>> regards/Bhaskar.>>>> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,India. The information contained in this electronic message and anyattachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of theaddressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privilegedinformation. If you are not the intended recipient, you should notdisseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the senderimmediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 1, 2010

Dear Chakroborty ji,

I can spend some more time and continue arguing with you and probably

beat you with logic in every statement you make. But deriving pleasure

to me by causing displeasures to you in such petty matters is not worth

it, which is why I have decided to refrain from doing so. No win is

great if it causes resentments. I would prefer to be associated with you

happily rather than with disagreements on mundane issues or winning

small arguments.

Instead I will try to study the chart you put up, for a few minutes.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar-ji,

>

> I write based upon impressions I get from your mails.

>

> I know the exchange of mails wastes time..yours and mine included.

> That's why I wrote in initial mail that 'Let's move on'.

>

> I again replied because of the mis-representation of facts

....national/regional.

> If Constitution of India accepts all major languages as 'national

Language' then

> what is the hurdle in accepting it as it is...rather than giving your

own terminology.

>

> Now coming to your questions...

>

> 1)What language is the National Anthem comprised of ?

>

> It is Bengali. Rabindranath Tagore was a Bengali & he did write

> in Bengali only. (I am excluding the few translations he did in

English)

>

> 2) Does it not contain any words used in Hindi...?

> Hindi / Sanskrit / Bengali (and many other Indian languages) have many

> words in common. So, the question is mis-placed

>

> 3) Why is the Anthem based on the language, it is based upon ?

> It is based on Bengali.

>

> 4) Why not is the Anthem based upon regional languages liek Bengali,

> Telugu, Tamil etc?

>

> Again it is based on Bengali...your so-called 'regional language'.

>

> That's why I asked you to refer the lines. Probably you did not check.

>

> BTW, for some reason, I have ample time to kill ... at least another

3-4 days.

> So, I decided to reply. You could have skipped the discussion.

>

> 'Hope you have enjoyed the discussion. If not, then I apologize.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

________________________________

>

On Behalf Of Bhaskar

> Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:49 PM

>

> Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

>

> Chakroborty Sahab,

>

> How much time you are spending in this and making me spend too...?

>

> 1) What language is the National Anthem comprised of ?

>

> 2) Does it not contain any words used in Hindi...?

>

> 3) Why is the Anthem based on the language, it is based upon ?

>

> 4) Why not is the Anthem based upon regional languages liek Bengali,

> Telugu, Tamil etc?

>

> I dont think what you conclude I think. The problem lies in your

> understanding about what i think. The previous mail also you mentioned

> that I had made a comparison of sky and a piece of land in bad taste.

> That time also you had concluded wrongly but I let it go, cannot

justify

> everything you consider otherwise. But what was in bad taste,

comparing

> a regional area- State, to the whole of India- Country - as the piece

of

> land and the sky respectively ?

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> --- In

<\

%40>, " Chakraborty, PL "

> CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar-ji,

> >

> > Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent

> > Bengal or Bengalis.

> >

> > Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrs

> only).

> > I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6

> yrs.

> >

> > First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken

in

> Kolkata

> > is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak /

> understand

> > almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong of

> Bangladesh.

> > So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.

> >

> > Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many

languages.

> > And earlier, it was the destination of all migration from

> Bihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.

> > Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.

> >

> > If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy

bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubari

> etc.,

> > you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia in

> Upper Assam, then

> > probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that all

> people of WB/Assam

> > understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.

> >

> > BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to " Jana-gana-mana " .

> For your

> > kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.

> >

> > If you have doubt, refer to the line

> >

> > " Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba

jaigatha "

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Chakraborty

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

<\

%40>

>

[ <ancient_indian_a\

strology%40>] On Behalf Of Bhaskar

> > Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM

> > To:

<\

%40>

> > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

> >

> > The National Anthem.

> >

> > I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language is

> this

> > written ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we

stand

> > up in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language and

> through

> > what lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pure

> > Sanskrit or English or Hindi ?

> >

> > If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali or

> > Telugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are

alike.

> So

> > why not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by Shri

> > Chakroborty ji ?

> >

> > I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to

W.

> > Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations

there

> > every year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well

and

> > can speak very well with use of " Aap " and " hum " and not like the

> > Maharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalis

> but

> > knowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???

> >

> > bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Time

> pass

> > karte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin.

Faaltu

> > issues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,

> India. The information contained in this electronic message and any

> attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the

> addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged

> information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not

> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender

> immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any

attachments.

> >

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,

India. The information contained in this electronic message and any

attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the

addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged

information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not

disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender

immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

>

April 2, 2010

Dear Bhaskr ji, Our un-brokern affair continues. Mera pyar to har time apke sath hai. I love you!!!Note: Love and happiness are two things that we cannot get if not we already have it! Water and air over-flow when the container is full; so is love and happiness. :)Love and hugs,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Gopi ji Sreenadhji ko, Love bhi likho na, sirf Hugs se kya hoga..> > aur mujhe bhi likho na , Love and hugs...main bhi boora aadmi nahin> hoon, sirf kabhi kabhi khopdi apni jagah se khisak jaati hai oherwise> normally main baaki sab se toh accha hoon..> > Love and hugs and regards,> > Bhaskar.

April 2, 2010

Dear Bhaskar ji,//Try to translate this in English -// Good translation from one language to another is impossible, because every word in every language carries the depth of root meaning (Dhatu; root origin) and history of evolving, which all gets amputated when a translation is done. Eg: Graha: (Grahyate: to grasp, to catch etc) Planet, a time span, a controller.; Translated as:- Planet (originated from a work meaning 'wanderer') How can the origin and history two words one meaning 'to grasp' (graha) and the other meaning 'wanderer' (planet) can be the same, even when that is the only translation available? Similarly 'Atma' does not breath and does not have a pyisical connotation and bindings; but the soul breaths! So how can 'Atma' be translated as 'Soul', but as you know that is the only translation available. Thus it goes for every word in every language. Simply put - true translation is impossible. If straight translation was possible, commentaries would have been unnecessary. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear all,> > Hindi is a commonly acceptable language, no doubts about this. Those not> knowing Hindi language well, will still go to watch Hindi movies, While> those not knowing South Indian languages would never go to watch a movie> in a South Indian language. In same way those who do not know English> would never go to watch a English movie, because certain movies in> American spoken english, even we cannot understand properly what they> are speaking, save for those smooching scenes which they do when they> get up in the morning and indulge in without brushing their teeth or> kissing when happy, kissing when crying, or kissing when going out of> room , or kissing when coming in. This is all the English we normally> understand in English movies...> > This is a Group where work is done in English, but was Ancient Asrology> done or wrritten or spoken in English ? Then why so much bias against> Hindi ? I agree that we must use the English language for conversations> here considering the Cosmopolitan membership here, but this does not> mean that once in a while we cannot express our feelings in the commonly> understood language - Hindi ? At times one is able to express better in> the Home language.> > Try to translate this in English -> > Tum mujhe acchi lagti ho, unke paas jao aur unko kaho yeh baat, ki aapki> beti ko main pasand karte hain.. uske baad mere pass aao aur batao ki> unhone kya kaha...> > regards,> > Bhaskar.

April 2, 2010

Dear Gopi ji, Kursija ji and Bhaskar ji, No fire crackers please. Kursija ji's words were bit fanatic, bit less of Gopi ji's and Bhaskar ji in par with. And by spelling it out I am the most fanatic! :)Note: Heat gets diluted when it is exposed; Essence gets diluted when water mixed into it; Anger gets diluted when it is expressed; suppressed emotions evaporate when told. And everywhere as a result peace, happiness and love settles-in! :)Love and hugs to all,Sreenadh , "gopalakrishna" <gopi_b927 wrote:>> who is a fanatic?is very clear.....> gopi.> , "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > " Tum mujhe acchi lagti ho, unke paas jao aur unko kaho yeh baat, ki> > aapki> > beti ko main pasand karte hain.. uske baad mere pass aao aur batao ki> > unhone kya kaha..."> >> > Re read this as -> >> > " Tum mujhe acchi lagti ho, unke paas jao aur unko kaho yeh baat, ki> > aapki> > beti ko hum pasand karte hain.. uske baad mere pass aao aur batao ki> > unhone kya kaha..."> >> > Try to translate this and give me the English translation which should> > mean exactly the above .> >> > If You cannot, then do not try to force English on anyone. We are 95%> > conversing in English here. Just for 5% do not jump on us like> fanatics> > please....> >> > Bhaskar.

April 2, 2010

Dear Chakraborty ji,//> James Bond trying to kill a man in a toilet of a moving train. He goes to top side> of the toilet....hangs upside down and fires a bullet with a comment -> > "Sorry, 'could not knock." - The same was translated as :> > "Mein Dukhit hoon ki mein darwaja khat-khatwa nehin"// Ha..ha.. that was nice. Usually I never watch movie translations because they turn serious films into a comedy show by fools. Not only the joy but also the beauty is usually lost. In Kerala (and possibly in many other places) one of main theme for stage comedy (mimicry) shows is 'acting out the translation of jurasic park in tamil, malayalam etc' :=)Love and regards,Sreeandh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> > I don't think anybody has dislike / bias against Hindi per se.> > And I have noticed that may be 2% of times you do use Hindi...> which is acceptable because people find it easier to express in their> mother tongue. Bit would you accept it if somebody starts writing> in Telugu or Tamil or Bengali ?> > But your other points...I find difficult to digest. Many of my friends> used to watch Assamese films while they were in Assam..sometimes> even Nepali films, without knowing the language. So people would watch> Hindi movie even if they don't understand Hindi ....and would not watch> South Indian films.... difficult to digest.> > Yes, ancient astrology was not written in English - Nor written in Hindi.> > People like me (non-Hindi speaking) find it easier to read & write English.> Speaking / listening to any language is different than reading/writing the same.> > Exact translation is a very difficult thing....I remember watching a James Bond> movie with Hindi sub-titles. The sub-titles killed all the enjoyment. An example :> > James Bond trying to kill a man in a toilet of a moving train. He goes to top side> of the toilet....hangs upside down and fires a bullet with a comment -> > "Sorry, 'could not knock." - The same was translated as :> > "Mein Dukhit hoon ki mein darwaja khat-khatwa nehin"> > > > regards> > Chakraborty

April 2, 2010

Dear Bhaskar ji,//Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it with regional languages? // Hindi IS a mere regional/local language (without much history or literature) lucky to have got accepted as national language (especially due to Gandhi etc). It still remains a local/regional language, even though most of the people in this group might be able to understand it. But one advantage hindi has is even though will not much intelligible (and truly understandable) to people of other states, it CAN (usually) convey the basic meaning to them due to the TRI-LINGUAL teaching system (Mother tongue -English-Hindi-) implemented by state governments in most of the states. Hindi neither has history, nor literature that can be in par with many local languages; but in the changed scenario we are bound to (and should) accept and respect Hindi since now it is our national language (and not even a remote chance situation being changed is not seen anywhere in future horizon). It is those who change with the times who survive.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it ewith> regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do not> understand the language.> > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in Telugu.> And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but not> all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are not able> to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and not> with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our> Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and not> English speaking. Right ?> > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult thing, is> what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express his> moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing wrong in> that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi, Malyalee, or> Telugu over here.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.

April 2, 2010

Dear Bhaskar ji and Chakraborty ji, May be we can refer to wikipedea -//Jana Gana Mana (Bengali: à¦œà¦¨ à¦—à¦£ à¦®à¦¨, Hindi: à¤œà¤¨

à¤—à¤£ à¤®à¤¨ Jôno Gôno Mono) is the national anthem of India. Written in highly Sanskritized Bengali, it is the first of five stanzas of a Brahmo hymn composed and scored by Nobel laureate Rabindranath Tagore. It was first sung at the Calcutta Session of the Indian National Congress on 27 December 1911. Jana Gana Mana was officially adopted by the Constituent Assembly as the Indian national anthem on January 24, 1950//Source URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> > Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent> Bengal or Bengalis.> > Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrs only).> I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6 yrs.> > First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken in Kolkata> is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak / understand> almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong of Bangladesh.> So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.> > Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many languages.> And earlier, it was the destination of all migration from Bihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.> Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.> > If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubari etc.,> you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia in Upper Assam, then> probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that all people of WB/Assam> understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.> > BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to "Jana-gana-mana". For your> kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.> > If you have doubt, refer to the line> > "Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba jaigatha"> > > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> On Behalf Of Bhaskar> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM> > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > The National Anthem.> > I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language is this> written ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we stand> up in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language and through> what lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pure> Sanskrit or English or Hindi ?> > If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali or> Telugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are alike. So> why not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by Shri> Chakroborty ji ?> > I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to W.> Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations there> every year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well and> can speak very well with use of " Aap" and "hum" and not like the> Maharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalis but> knowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???> > bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Time pass> karte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin. Faaltu> issues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..> > regards/Bhaskar.

April 2, 2010

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.

There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National Anthem, possibly due to above fact.

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of sreesogFriday, April 02, 2010 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

Dear Bhaskar ji and Chakraborty ji, May be we can refer to wikipedea -//Jana Gana Mana (Bengali: à¦œà¦¨ à¦—à¦£ à¦®à¦¨, Hindi: à¤œà¤¨ à¤—à¤£ à¤®à¤¨ Jôno Gôno Mono) is the national anthem of India. Written in highly Sanskritized Bengali, it is the first of five stanzas of a Brahmo hymn composed and scored by Nobel laureate Rabindranath Tagore. It was first sung at the Calcutta Session of the Indian National Congress on 27 December 1911. Jana Gana Mana was officially adopted by the Constituent Assembly as the Indian national anthem on January 24, 1950//Source URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,> > Yes, I know you were in kolkata. But Kolkata does not represent> Bengal or Bengalis.> > Just for information, I was in W. Bengal for a short time (7 yrs only).> I was posted at Haldia Refinery (approx 120 km from kolkata) for 6 yrs.> > First of all....Bengali has many dialects...and the dialect spoken in Kolkata> is one of them. Among all 8-9 dialects of Bengali, I can speak / understand> almost all of them, except the dialect of Chattagram / Chitagong of Bangladesh.> So, please do not tell me anything about Bengal or Bengali.> > Kolkata, being a Metro (like Mumbai), will have use of many languages.> And earlier, it was the destination of all migration from Bihar/UP/Rajasthan etc.> Now the destination is Mumbai. So, people would understand Hindi.> > If you go to Guwhati and visit Fancy bazar/Machkhowa/Lakhtokia/Ulubari etc.,> you will find everybody understands Hindi. If you go to Tinsukia in Upper Assam, then> probably 100% people understand Hindi....does that mean that all people of WB/Assam> understand Hindi ???? If you think so, it is a very poor conclusion.> > BTW, by National anthem, you must be referring to "Jana-gana-mana". For your> kind information, it is not in Hindi...neither it is in Sanskrit.> > If you have doubt, refer to the line> > "Taba shubha naame jage, Taba subha ashis maage, Gaahe taba jaigatha"> > > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> On Behalf Of Bhaskar> Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:48 PM> > Re: Tradition v/s non tradition> > > > The National Anthem.> > I would like the Members to please enlighten me in what language is this> written ? I am sure its not english. Then what is it ? Why do we stand> up in the cinema halls when listening to this? What language and through> what lines are these said ? Can someone tell me whether its pure> Sanskrit or English or Hindi ?> > If it is the National Anthem then why is not in bengali or Nepali or> Telugu. As kin d member Chakroborty says that all of these are alike. So> why not have the National Anthem in the language suggested by Shri> Chakroborty ji ?> > I am not sure about Shri Chakroborty ji whether he has ever been to W.> Bengal or not, but I know after having spent my school vacations there> every year, that every man on the street too knows Hindi very well and> can speak very well with use of " Aap" and "hum" and not like the> Maharshtra Hindi. So whats the problem here ? They are all bengalis but> knowing Hindi . But do all knowing Hindi know Bengali ???> > bekaar ka discuss karte hain Bhaskar ke saamne bina logic ke...Time pass> karte hain. time kharaab karte hain. inke pass koi kaam nahin. Faaltu> issues lekar jhagadne ko taiyyar ho jaate hain..> > regards/Bhaskar.This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 2, 2010

Dear Chakraborty ji, //The song was originally written to welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.// As per wikipedea most possibly that notion is wrong. Please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.> > There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National Anthem, possibly due to above fact.> > regards> > Chakraborty

April 2, 2010

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

I rarely cross-check with Wikipedia for these facts as I don't have to be very accurate every time.

(Please note that I don't want to be an expert..). But this time I did check the link.

I got the date wrong. But my memory tells me that initial stanza-s were written for Brahmo samaj convention somewhere in 1907.

The controversy about whom it was written was reported. Frankly, I Don't remember seeing any such letters of Tagore.

May be I am getting old.

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of sreesogFriday, April 02, 2010 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

Dear Chakraborty ji, //The song was originally written to welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.// As per wikipedea most possibly that notion is wrong. Please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.> > There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National Anthem, possibly due to above fact.> > regards> > ChakrabortyThis Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 2, 2010

Dear Sreenadh ji and Chakroborty ji,

Many religious practises which we follow always had a start and

beginning when two prominent personalities showed the way for those, at

some time or the other due to whatever reasons. After that the

generations begin following the same.

I do not care much for the Indian Governance today and a common Official

language is still a pending issue, but there are many more important

issues to comprehend with, for India. The language issue comes later.

Let us stand United and not break away due to these pending issues by

arguing against each others views, as I , Chakroborty ji, Goelji, and

Mouji Sahab have done. I realised that this issue is creating a heat

amongst us brothers of the same community hence I backed off, otherwise

you all know how much I love to argue and stress my points home, whether

it is for proposition of aspects in D Charts, or in opposition of same,

I enjoy arguing on both sides. As long as we do not get divided.....

What I love about the Anthem, is that people when they see it on the

Silver Screen, all stand in attention to a common Hymn and song, which

makes us all seem to be very patriotic for a few moments and tie us with

a common thread of Desh Bhakti.... I saw a movie last week - " Hum Tum

aur Ghost " and in the PVR Cinema I visited only 60 seats of about 250

were occupied , but that standing up for few moments from your seats

does produce some fine quality moments of togetherness indeed.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " sreesog " <sreesog

wrote:

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> //The song was originally written to welcome King George V at

> Calcutta...probably in 1907.//

> As per wikipedea most possibly that notion is wrong. Please refer to:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana>

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Chakraborty, PL "

> CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh-ji,

> >

> > I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to

> welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.

> >

> > There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National

> Anthem, possibly due to above fact.

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Chakraborty

>

April 2, 2010

Chakroborty Sahab,

Stay on my side. You will never get Old. And join me on FaceBook. You

see I have all the apsaras of the Indra Sabha closeted as my friends

o'er there. You may find a few Bengali Apsaras too. You will enjoy my

company for sure oer there. And I dont argue there so dont worry. I just

enjoy . ( I do argue much on the Threads of National issues with

Politicians, Self styled Moralists etc. but these are not initiated by

me, but by other persons). regards and best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh-ji,

>

> I rarely cross-check with Wikipedia for these facts as I don't have to

be very accurate every time.

> (Please note that I don't want to be an expert..). But this time I did

check the link.

>

> I got the date wrong. But my memory tells me that initial stanza-s

were written for Brahmo samaj convention somewhere in 1907.

> The controversy about whom it was written was reported. Frankly, I

Don't remember seeing any such letters of Tagore.

> May be I am getting old.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

> ________________________________

>

On Behalf Of sreesog

> Friday, April 02, 2010 10:18 AM

>

> Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> //The song was originally written to welcome King George V at

Calcutta...probably in 1907.//

> As per wikipedea most possibly that notion is wrong. Please refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Chakraborty, PL "

CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh-ji,

> >

> > I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to

welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.

> >

> > There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National

Anthem, possibly due to above fact.

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Chakraborty

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,

India. The information contained in this electronic message and any

attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the

addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged

information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not

disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender

immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

>

April 2, 2010

Dear Bhaskar-ji & other friends,

Frankly, I don't like to argue or debate.

I saw facts getting mis-represented.....And I had enough time to kill.

1) National Languages ......being portrayed as regional language

2) Official language being portrayed as National language

3) Very few people are aware of the roots of our National Anthem & its language.

The third one saddened me most.

Anyway, debates are good. And languages are medium of expression...let it remain

like that. Sometimes a good intention (common language) can be mis-used & be

a source of rift.

regards

Chakraborty

On Behalf Of BhaskarFriday, April 02, 2010 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Tradition v/s non tradition

Dear Sreenadh ji and Chakroborty ji,Many religious practises which we follow always had a start andbeginning when two prominent personalities showed the way for those, atsome time or the other due to whatever reasons. After that thegenerations begin following the same.I do not care much for the Indian Governance today and a common Officiallanguage is still a pending issue, but there are many more importantissues to comprehend with, for India. The language issue comes later.Let us stand United and not break away due to these pending issues byarguing against each others views, as I , Chakroborty ji, Goelji, andMouji Sahab have done. I realised that this issue is creating a heatamongst us brothers of the same community hence I backed off, otherwiseyou all know how much I love to argue and stress my points home, whetherit is for proposition of aspects in D Charts, or in opposition of same,I enjoy arguing on both sides. As long as we do not get divided.....What I love about the Anthem, is that people when they see it on theSilver Screen, all stand in attention to a common Hymn and song, whichmakes us all seem to be very patriotic for a few moments and tie us witha common thread of Desh Bhakti.... I saw a movie last week - "Hum Tumaur Ghost" and in the PVR Cinema I visited only 60 seats of about 250were occupied , but that standing up for few moments from your seatsdoes produce some fine quality moments of togetherness indeed.regards,Bhaskar. , "sreesog" <sreesogwrote:>> Dear Chakraborty ji,> //The song was originally written to welcome King George V at> Calcutta...probably in 1907.//> As per wikipedea most possibly that notion is wrong. Please refer to:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana>> Love and regards,> Sreenadh>> , "Chakraborty, PL"> CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh-ji,> >> > I was fully aware of this fact. The song was originally written to> welcome King George V at Calcutta...probably in 1907.> >> > There was some opposition to adoption of this song for National> Anthem, possibly due to above fact.> >> > regards> >> > Chakraborty>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

April 2, 2010

Dear Sreenadh ji,

//Water and air over-flow when the container is full; so is love and happiness.

:)//

So do poisonous liquids & gases! Just like hatred and anger.

But sure, we are talking about love & happiness here:)

blessings,

Renu

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskr ji,

> Our un-brokern affair continues. Mera pyar to har time apke sath

> hai. I love you!!!

> Note: Love and happiness are two things that we cannot get if not we

> already have it! Water and air over-flow when the container is full; so

> is love and happiness.

> Love and hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Gopi ji Sreenadhji ko, Love bhi likho na, sirf Hugs se kya hoga..

> >

> > aur mujhe bhi likho na , Love and hugs...main bhi boora aadmi nahin

> > hoon, sirf kabhi kabhi khopdi apni jagah se khisak jaati hai oherwise

> > normally main baaki sab se toh accha hoon..

> >

> > Love and hugs and regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

>

April 5, 2010

Dear Gopi ji, Please don't be fanatic! Any language can be compared with any other language anywhere in the world (even though the history and vastness of literature of various languages will differ), there is nothing wrong in it. What is wrong with comparing telungu with napali (an indo-aryan language; it is widely spoken in bangal, assam and utteranchel as well), fench (an indo-europian language; roots goes back to the celtic vedic culture) with Telugu (a dravidian languages with roots both in southern india and the great kamboja kingdom of central russia). Once upon a time (BC 400 and before) Brahmi inscriptions were being used to write many languages we know now such as Sanskrit, Telungu, Tamil etc. Even though popularly known as dravidian language (do to its grammatical similarity), considering the words (vocabulary) many so called dravidian languages like Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada should be better called Prakrit or indo-aryan (or is it indo-tantric?) languages itself. There connection with siva/jaina cult, central russia, brahmi, prakrit etc are unmistakable. Let us also remember that both the fire worshiper (vedic cult) originated in Siberia and the idol worship (tantric cult) originated in central russia both used Prakrit as the communication medium and also that the span of various dialects of Prakrit is not limited Asia and spans out to cover the whole of Europe as well. The point I want to repeat and emphasis is that - Any language can be compare with any other language (whether they are of inside or outside of india), because all of them serve the same purpose - i.e. serving as a communication medium between human beings. Religion is is not bound by imaginary national boundaries, so is languages and so is the affection for other fellow human beings anywhere in the world. Note: On writing this much, I felt like saying something about 'Nepali language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. The word 'Nepali' can be broken as 'Ne-Pali'. Sound familiar? Pali is a Prakrit variant language spoken in host of people throughout india especially during the period of Buddha. It was a well familiar local tongue. Janaka, Buddha, Kapila and many others spoke this language. Pali is a language well reputed by Buddhists and most of their ancient literature is in Pali. It is one of the major language to which 'Ne-Pali' is indebted to. Nava-Pali is Ne-Pali (modified pali; the 'New Pali'). If we respect Sanskrit how can be disrespect Prakrit from which Sanskrit originated? If we respect Prakrit how can we dis-respect 'Pali', a Prakrit variant, the language of Buddha? If we respect Pali, how can we dis-respect 'Ne-Pali' (new-pali) the language of the modern Buddists and the inhabitants of Nepal? Is it not evident that most of the languages spoken by people of Nepal - such as Nepali (48.61%), Maithili (12.30%), Bhojpuri (7.53%), Tharu (5.86%), Tamang (5.19%), Newari/Nepal Bhasa (3.63%), Magar (3.39%), Awadhi (2.47%), Rai (2.79%), Limbu (1.47%), and Bajjika (1.05%). - are mostly Prakrit variants? I am certain that at least you will remember (or something will resonate in you) when you here names such as Maithili, Bhojpuri, Awadhi etc.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "gopalakrishna" <gopi_b927 wrote:>> Born in india that too in andhrapradesh this man is comparing telugu an> indian language with nepali ,french etc is too much!!!.....> gopi.> , "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Chakroborty ji,> >> > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> >> > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it ewith> > regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> >> > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do not> > understand the language.> >> > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in> Telugu.> > And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but not> > all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are not> able> > to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and> not> > with the food you are trying to gulp down.> >> > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our> > Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and not> > English speaking. Right ?> >> > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult thing, is> > what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express his> > moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing wrong> in> > that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi, Malyalee,> or> > Telugu over here.> >> > best wishes,> >> > Bhaskar.

April 5, 2010

When Ghalib was invited for the first time to the Court of Bahadur Shah Zafar, he recited his "ghazal" (poem) which no one could understand and so no one applauded. On seeing this, one famous poet of Delhi remarked, "apna kaha aap hi samjhe to kya samjhe, maja kehne ka tab hai, yak kahe dooja samjhe" meaning that if you understand the meaning of what you say yourself then what is the use, the enjoyment is only when one says and the other person understands, what is being said.

best wishes,

Mouji Ram

April 6, 2010

A good informative and knowledgable mail...

, " sreesog " <sreesog

wrote:

>

> Dear Gopi ji,

> Please don't be fanatic! Any language can be compared with any other

> language anywhere in the world (even though the history and vastness

of

> literature of various languages will differ), there is nothing wrong

in

> it.

> What is wrong with comparing telungu with napali (an indo-aryan

> language; it is widely spoken in bangal, assam and utteranchel as

well),

> fench (an indo-europian language; roots goes back to the celtic vedic

> culture) with Telugu (a dravidian languages with roots both in

southern

> india and the great kamboja kingdom of central russia). Once upon a

time

> (BC 400 and before) Brahmi inscriptions were being used to write many

> languages we know now such as Sanskrit, Telungu, Tamil etc. Even

though

> popularly known as dravidian language (do to its grammatical

> similarity), considering the words (vocabulary) many so called

dravidian

> languages like Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada should be better called

> Prakrit or indo-aryan (or is it indo-tantric?) languages itself. There

> connection with siva/jaina cult, central russia, brahmi, prakrit etc

are

> unmistakable. Let us also remember that both the fire worshiper (vedic

> cult) originated in Siberia and the idol worship (tantric cult)

> originated in central russia both used Prakrit as the communication

> medium and also that the span of various dialects of Prakrit is not

> limited Asia and spans out to cover the whole of Europe as well.

> The point I want to repeat and emphasis is that - Any language can be

> compare with any other language (whether they are of inside or outside

> of india), because all of them serve the same purpose - i.e. serving

as

> a communication medium between human beings. Religion is is not bound

by

> imaginary national boundaries, so is languages and so is the affection

> for other fellow human beings anywhere in the world.

> Note:

> On writing this much, I felt like saying something about 'Nepali

> language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. The word

> 'Nepali' can be broken as 'Ne-Pali'. Sound familiar? Pali is a Prakrit

> variant language spoken in host of people throughout india especially

> during the period of Buddha. It was a well familiar local tongue.

> Janaka, Buddha, Kapila and many others spoke this language. Pali is a

> language well reputed by Buddhists and most of their ancient

literature

> is in Pali. It is one of the major language to which 'Ne-Pali' is

> indebted to. Nava-Pali is Ne-Pali (modified pali; the 'New Pali'). If

we

> respect Sanskrit how can be disrespect Prakrit from which Sanskrit

> originated? If we respect Prakrit how can we dis-respect 'Pali', a

> Prakrit variant, the language of Buddha? If we respect Pali, how can

we

> dis-respect 'Ne-Pali' (new-pali) the language of the modern Buddists

and

> the inhabitants of Nepal? Is it not evident that most of the languages

> spoken by people of Nepal - such as

> Nepali (48.61%), Maithili (12.30%), Bhojpuri (7.53%), Tharu (5.86%),

> Tamang (5.19%), Newari/Nepal Bhasa (3.63%), Magar (3.39%), Awadhi

> (2.47%), Rai (2.79%), Limbu (1.47%), and Bajjika (1.05%). - are mostly

> Prakrit variants? I am certain that at least you will remember (or

> something will resonate in you) when you here names such as Maithili,

> Bhojpuri, Awadhi etc.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " gopalakrishna "

> gopi_b927@ wrote:

> >

> > Born in india that too in andhrapradesh this man is comparing telugu

> an

> > indian language with nepali ,french etc is too much!!!.....

> > gopi.

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chakroborty ji,

> > >

> > > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.

> > >

> > > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it

> ewith

> > > regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.

> > >

> > > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do

not

> > > understand the language.

> > >

> > > One was " Shankarabharanam " and the the other was " Shiva " both in

> > Telugu.

> > > And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but

> not

> > > all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are

not

> > able

> > > to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and

> > not

> > > with the food you are trying to gulp down.

> > >

> > > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our

> > > Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and

> not

> > > English speaking. Right ?

> > >

> > > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult

thing,

> is

> > > what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express

his

> > > moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing

wrong

> > in

> > > that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi,

Malyalee,

> > or

> > > Telugu over here.

> > >

> > > best wishes,

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

>

April 17, 2010

Dear Sreenadh ji,well,well you too!!You dont have to write that much long post since i already know what all you have written and entirely agree.It is only a misunderstanding and i am used to such things in my life specially during 3rd L debilitation in transit(yours too).I share lagna/moon with few of you people in this group and i love it.A misunderstanding that i dont like/respect hindi and a fanatic of English!!!I have never studied in english medium.Those who profess themselves as saviours of hindi can not talk to their children in hindi is a fact i know.Due to mars' debilitation my PC also crashed and i was off line for aweek or so.I am a sincere/serious research student of astrology and i discuss astrology only and not about any other thing including language issue.I want to make my stand clear once for all that all languages are same including sanskrit and all humans are same(in body and soul)But not in mind which is the culprit.Those who do not agree may simply ignore because no two minds are same.Of late it is increasingly unpleasant in the group and words like shit astrology are being repeated which gives pain.On one hand we talk about ancient sages etc and on the other we talk like this.It also hurts to be singled out just for speaking truth and branded as fanatic!!.The rules of the game should be same for all and i believe in that. //I felt like saying something about 'Nepali language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. //If at all any contempt is there it is not about the language but about the concerned person....Love and regards,gopi. , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Gopi ji,> Please don't be fanatic! Any language can be compared with any other> language anywhere in the world (even though the history and vastness of> literature of various languages will differ), there is nothing wrong in> it.> What is wrong with comparing telungu with napali (an indo-aryan> language; it is widely spoken in bangal, assam and utteranchel as well),> fench (an indo-europian language; roots goes back to the celtic vedic> culture) with Telugu (a dravidian languages with roots both in southern> india and the great kamboja kingdom of central russia). Once upon a time> (BC 400 and before) Brahmi inscriptions were being used to write many> languages we know now such as Sanskrit, Telungu, Tamil etc. Even though> popularly known as dravidian language (do to its grammatical> similarity), considering the words (vocabulary) many so called dravidian> languages like Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada should be better called> Prakrit or indo-aryan (or is it indo-tantric?) languages itself. There> connection with siva/jaina cult, central russia, brahmi, prakrit etc are> unmistakable. Let us also remember that both the fire worshiper (vedic> cult) originated in Siberia and the idol worship (tantric cult)> originated in central russia both used Prakrit as the communication> medium and also that the span of various dialects of Prakrit is not> limited Asia and spans out to cover the whole of Europe as well.> The point I want to repeat and emphasis is that - Any language can be> compare with any other language (whether they are of inside or outside> of india), because all of them serve the same purpose - i.e. serving as> a communication medium between human beings. Religion is is not bound by> imaginary national boundaries, so is languages and so is the affection> for other fellow human beings anywhere in the world.> Note:> On writing this much, I felt like saying something about 'Nepali> language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. The word> 'Nepali' can be broken as 'Ne-Pali'. Sound familiar? Pali is a Prakrit> variant language spoken in host of people throughout india especially> during the period of Buddha. It was a well familiar local tongue.> Janaka, Buddha, Kapila and many others spoke this language. Pali is a> language well reputed by Buddhists and most of their ancient literature> is in Pali. It is one of the major language to which 'Ne-Pali' is> indebted to. Nava-Pali is Ne-Pali (modified pali; the 'New Pali'). If we> respect Sanskrit how can be disrespect Prakrit from which Sanskrit> originated? If we respect Prakrit how can we dis-respect 'Pali', a> Prakrit variant, the language of Buddha? If we respect Pali, how can we> dis-respect 'Ne-Pali' (new-pali) the language of the modern Buddists and> the inhabitants of Nepal? Is it not evident that most of the languages> spoken by people of Nepal - such as> Nepali (48.61%), Maithili (12.30%), Bhojpuri (7.53%), Tharu (5.86%),> Tamang (5.19%), Newari/Nepal Bhasa (3.63%), Magar (3.39%), Awadhi> (2.47%), Rai (2.79%), Limbu (1.47%), and Bajjika (1.05%). - are mostly> Prakrit variants? I am certain that at least you will remember (or> something will resonate in you) when you here names such as Maithili,> Bhojpuri, Awadhi etc.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "gopalakrishna"> gopi_b927@ wrote:> >> > Born in india that too in andhrapradesh this man is comparing telugu> an> > indian language with nepali ,french etc is too much!!!.....> > gopi.> > , "Bhaskar"> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > >> > > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > >> > > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it> ewith> > > regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > >> > > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do not> > > understand the language.> > >> > > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in> > Telugu.> > > And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but> not> > > all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are not> > able> > > to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities and> > not> > > with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > >> > > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our> > > Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and> not> > > English speaking. Right ?> > >> > > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult thing,> is> > > what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express his> > > moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing wrong> > in> > > that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi, Malyalee,> > or> > > Telugu over here.> > >> > > best wishes,> > >> > > Bhaskar.>

April 17, 2010

Dear Gopi ji,

//If at all any contempt is there it is not about the language but about the concerned person....//

Being good astrologers one should not harbor any contempt for humans or persons, but for their ideologies.

I have never used any word as "Shit Astrology" in my history of exchanges in this Group or any other Groups.

If You are referring to me then kindly point out the same.

I am a Lover and saviour of Hindi, and can speak it much better than many here.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, "gopalakrishna" <gopi_b927 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> well,well you too!!You dont have to write that much long post since i> > already know what all you have written and entirely agree.It is only a> > misunderstanding and i am used to such things in my life specially> > during 3rd L debilitation in transit(yours too).I share lagna/moon with> > few of you people in this group and i love it.> A misunderstanding that i dont like/respect hindi and a fanatic of> > English!!!I have never studied in english medium.Those who profess> > themselves as saviours of hindi can not talk to their children in hindi> > is a fact i know.Due to mars' debilitation my PC also crashed and i was> > off line for aweek or so.I am a sincere/serious research student of> > astrology and i discuss astrology only and not about any other thing> > including language issue.> I want to make my stand clear once for all that all languages are same> > including sanskrit and all humans are same(in body and soul)But not in> > mind which is the culprit.Those who do not agree may simply ignore> > because no two minds are same.> Of late it is increasingly unpleasant in the group and words like shit> > astrology are being repeated which gives pain.On one hand we talk about> > ancient sages etc and on the other we talk like this.It also hurts to> > be singled out just for speaking truth and branded as fanatic!!.The> > rules of the game should be same for all and i believe in that.> //I felt like saying something about 'Nepali language' which you> > mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. //> If at all any contempt is there it is not about the language but about> > the concerned person....> Love and regards,> gopi.> , "sreesog" sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Gopi ji,> > Please don't be fanatic! Any language can be compared with any other> > language anywhere in the world (even though the history and vastness> of> > literature of various languages will differ), there is nothing wrong> in> > it.> > What is wrong with comparing telungu with napali (an indo-aryan> > language; it is widely spoken in bangal, assam and utteranchel as> well),> > fench (an indo-europian language; roots goes back to the celtic vedic> > culture) with Telugu (a dravidian languages with roots both in> southern> > india and the great kamboja kingdom of central russia). Once upon a> time> > (BC 400 and before) Brahmi inscriptions were being used to write many> > languages we know now such as Sanskrit, Telungu, Tamil etc. Even> though> > popularly known as dravidian language (do to its grammatical> > similarity), considering the words (vocabulary) many so called> dravidian> > languages like Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada should be better called> > Prakrit or indo-aryan (or is it indo-tantric?) languages itself. There> > connection with siva/jaina cult, central russia, brahmi, prakrit etc> are> > unmistakable. Let us also remember that both the fire worshiper (vedic> > cult) originated in Siberia and the idol worship (tantric cult)> > originated in central russia both used Prakrit as the communication> > medium and also that the span of various dialects of Prakrit is not> > limited Asia and spans out to cover the whole of Europe as well.> > The point I want to repeat and emphasis is that - Any language can> be> > compare with any other language (whether they are of inside or outside> > of india), because all of them serve the same purpose - i.e. serving> as> > a communication medium between human beings. Religion is is not bound> by> > imaginary national boundaries, so is languages and so is the affection> > for other fellow human beings anywhere in the world.> > Note:> > On writing this much, I felt like saying something about 'Nepali> > language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. The word> > 'Nepali' can be broken as 'Ne-Pali'. Sound familiar? Pali is a Prakrit> > variant language spoken in host of people throughout india especially> > during the period of Buddha. It was a well familiar local tongue.> > Janaka, Buddha, Kapila and many others spoke this language. Pali is a> > language well reputed by Buddhists and most of their ancient> literature> > is in Pali. It is one of the major language to which 'Ne-Pali' is> > indebted to. Nava-Pali is Ne-Pali (modified pali; the 'New Pali'). If> we> > respect Sanskrit how can be disrespect Prakrit from which Sanskrit> > originated? If we respect Prakrit how can we dis-respect 'Pali', a> > Prakrit variant, the language of Buddha? If we respect Pali, how can> we> > dis-respect 'Ne-Pali' (new-pali) the language of the modern Buddists> and> > the inhabitants of Nepal? Is it not evident that most of the languages> > spoken by people of Nepal - such as> > Nepali (48.61%), Maithili (12.30%), Bhojpuri (7.53%), Tharu (5.86%),> > Tamang (5.19%), Newari/Nepal Bhasa (3.63%), Magar (3.39%), Awadhi> > (2.47%), Rai (2.79%), Limbu (1.47%), and Bajjika (1.05%). - are mostly> > Prakrit variants? I am certain that at least you will remember (or> > something will resonate in you) when you here names such as Maithili,> > Bhojpuri, Awadhi etc.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > , "gopalakrishna"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Born in india that too in andhrapradesh this man is comparing telugu> > an> > > indian language with nepali ,french etc is too much!!!.....> > > gopi.> > > , "Bhaskar"> > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > > >> > > > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > > >> > > > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it> > ewith> > > > regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > > >> > > > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do> not> > > > understand the language.> > > >> > > > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in> > > Telugu.> > > > And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies but> > not> > > > all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are> not> > > able> > > > to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities> and> > > not> > > > with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > > >> > > > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as our> > > > Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits and> > not> > > > English speaking. Right ?> > > >> > > > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult> thing,> > is> > > > what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express> his> > > > moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing> wrong> > > in> > > > that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi,> Malyalee,> > > or> > > > Telugu over here.> > > >> > > > best wishes,> > > >> > > > Bhaskar.> >>

April 17, 2010

Dear Bhaskar garu,almost eerybody is talking in their own language let me also respond in my own.Telugulo oka sameta meeku telise vuntundi,gummadikayala donga avaru ante bujalu tadumukonnadu okadu!!...gopi. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> Dear Gopi ji, //If at all any contempt is there it is not about the> language but about the concerned person....// Being good astrologers> one should not harbor any contempt for humans or persons, but for their> ideologies. I have never used any word as "Shit Astrology" in my> history of exchanges in this Group or any other Groups. If You are> referring to me then kindly point out the same. I am a Lover and> saviour of Hindi, and can speak it much better than many here. best> wishes, Bhaskar.> > > > > > > , "gopalakrishna"> gopi_b927@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > well,well you too!!You dont have to write that much long post since i> >> > already know what all you have written and entirely agree.It is only a> >> > misunderstanding and i am used to such things in my life specially> >> > during 3rd L debilitation in transit(yours too).I share lagna/moon> with> >> > few of you people in this group and i love it.> > A misunderstanding that i dont like/respect hindi and a fanatic of> >> > English!!!I have never studied in english medium.Those who profess> >> > themselves as saviours of hindi can not talk to their children in> hindi> >> > is a fact i know.Due to mars' debilitation my PC also crashed and i> was> >> > off line for aweek or so.I am a sincere/serious research student of> >> > astrology and i discuss astrology only and not about any other thing> >> > including language issue.> > I want to make my stand clear once for all that all languages are same> >> > including sanskrit and all humans are same(in body and soul)But not in> >> > mind which is the culprit.Those who do not agree may simply ignore> >> > because no two minds are same.> > Of late it is increasingly unpleasant in the group and words like shit> >> > astrology are being repeated which gives pain.On one hand we talk> about> >> > ancient sages etc and on the other we talk like this.It also hurts to> >> > be singled out just for speaking truth and branded as fanatic!!.The> >> > rules of the game should be same for all and i believe in that.> > //I felt like saying something about 'Nepali language' which you> >> > mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. //> > If at all any contempt is there it is not about the language but about> >> > the concerned person....> > Love and regards,> > gopi.> > , "sreesog" sreesog@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > Please don't be fanatic! Any language can be compared with any other> > > language anywhere in the world (even though the history and vastness> > of> > > literature of various languages will differ), there is nothing wrong> > in> > > it.> > > What is wrong with comparing telungu with napali (an indo-aryan> > > language; it is widely spoken in bangal, assam and utteranchel as> > well),> > > fench (an indo-europian language; roots goes back to the celtic> vedic> > > culture) with Telugu (a dravidian languages with roots both in> > southern> > > india and the great kamboja kingdom of central russia). Once upon a> > time> > > (BC 400 and before) Brahmi inscriptions were being used to write> many> > > languages we know now such as Sanskrit, Telungu, Tamil etc. Even> > though> > > popularly known as dravidian language (do to its grammatical> > > similarity), considering the words (vocabulary) many so called> > dravidian> > > languages like Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada should be better called> > > Prakrit or indo-aryan (or is it indo-tantric?) languages itself.> There> > > connection with siva/jaina cult, central russia, brahmi, prakrit etc> > are> > > unmistakable. Let us also remember that both the fire worshiper> (vedic> > > cult) originated in Siberia and the idol worship (tantric cult)> > > originated in central russia both used Prakrit as the communication> > > medium and also that the span of various dialects of Prakrit is not> > > limited Asia and spans out to cover the whole of Europe as well.> > > The point I want to repeat and emphasis is that - Any language can> > be> > > compare with any other language (whether they are of inside or> outside> > > of india), because all of them serve the same purpose - i.e. serving> > as> > > a communication medium between human beings. Religion is is not> bound> > by> > > imaginary national boundaries, so is languages and so is the> affection> > > for other fellow human beings anywhere in the world.> > > Note:> > > On writing this much, I felt like saying something about 'Nepali> > > language' which you mentioned may be with a bit of contempt. The> word> > > 'Nepali' can be broken as 'Ne-Pali'. Sound familiar? Pali is a> Prakrit> > > variant language spoken in host of people throughout india> especially> > > during the period of Buddha. It was a well familiar local tongue.> > > Janaka, Buddha, Kapila and many others spoke this language. Pali is> a> > > language well reputed by Buddhists and most of their ancient> > literature> > > is in Pali. It is one of the major language to which 'Ne-Pali' is> > > indebted to. Nava-Pali is Ne-Pali (modified pali; the 'New Pali').> If> > we> > > respect Sanskrit how can be disrespect Prakrit from which Sanskrit> > > originated? If we respect Prakrit how can we dis-respect 'Pali', a> > > Prakrit variant, the language of Buddha? If we respect Pali, how can> > we> > > dis-respect 'Ne-Pali' (new-pali) the language of the modern Buddists> > and> > > the inhabitants of Nepal? Is it not evident that most of the> languages> > > spoken by people of Nepal - such as> > > Nepali (48.61%), Maithili (12.30%), Bhojpuri (7.53%), Tharu (5.86%),> > > Tamang (5.19%), Newari/Nepal Bhasa (3.63%), Magar (3.39%), Awadhi> > > (2.47%), Rai (2.79%), Limbu (1.47%), and Bajjika (1.05%). - are> mostly> > > Prakrit variants? I am certain that at least you will remember (or> > > something will resonate in you) when you here names such as> Maithili,> > > Bhojpuri, Awadhi etc.> > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > , "gopalakrishna"> > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Born in india that too in andhrapradesh this man is comparing> telugu> > > an> > > > indian language with nepali ,french etc is too much!!!.....> > > > gopi.> > > > , "Bhaskar"> > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Chakroborty ji,> > > > >> > > > > Do not try to compare the sky with a small piece of Land.> > > > >> > > > > Hindi is a Nationally accepted language. How can you compare it> > > ewith> > > > > regional languages ? This is absurd comparisons.> > > > >> > > > > I have watched only 3 South indian films till date because I do> > not> > > > > understand the language.> > > > >> > > > > One was "Shankarabharanam" and the the other was "Shiva" both in> > > > Telugu.> > > > > And even a kid knows that all Telugu people watch Hindi movies> but> > > not> > > > > all Hindi knowing would watch a Telugu one. So again if You are> > not> > > > able> > > > > to digest theres a problem in the intestinal functionabilities> > and> > > > not> > > > > with the food you are trying to gulp down.> > > > >> > > > > The Pundits whom our anestors have show our Kundlis as well as> our> > > > > Parents, have gone to Hindi our South Indian speaking Pundits> and> > > not> > > > > English speaking. Right ?> > > > >> > > > > You have accepted that exact translation is a very difficult> > thing,> > > is> > > > > what I wanted to say all along. Sometimes one wishes to express> > his> > > > > moods in the same language the thoughts have come, and nothing> > wrong> > > > in> > > > > that, as long as I am not putting Nepali, French, marathi,> > Malyalee,> > > > or> > > > > Telugu over here.> > > > >> > > > > best wishes,> > > > >> > > > > Bhaskar.> > >> >>

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