Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Members, Some hot reply expected by me because of my question which is directly related to once believe and faith.What every we learn by our parents or surrounding by which we make our faith about every thing including religious matter or others matter of the world. These all register in our mind only.What is my religion,who are my parent,who am I,where we live,which is our mother country,as like that every thing registered in our mind only.And we see and analyse every thing accordingly our picture in our mind. What ever you have the picture of your " Ishtha " (God) it is in our mind,what every you read about the your faith all illustrate in our mind.What every you learn more about any subject it is in our mind.What development you achieve spiritually it is also in your mind.These all different state of our mind,as like a Shadhak develop himself its all register in the mind.What ever he experience spiritually all register in mind. Dear Friend mind have intense power we can't imagine about it.What ever you think about any subject of this world,it is in your mind.If you not have any knowledge about any subject than you will not realise the existence of that subject. Knowledge is every thing in the world and knowledge can be learn by only mind.This knowledge you can't achieve without mind.Every feeling you feel because of mind,every illustration of any Vedas or Granth you understand by mind and all the knowledge register in the mind. Please read Bhagwat Geta's 4 chapter Shlok No 33 to 42.How by knowledge we become free from our Karma. Theory of " Nirgun " for Mokasha is a state of mind,as Lajmi ji have said in his Article as :- //3) The goal of this aroused Kundalini being the sahasrara chakra, (at the crown of the head),on piercing which,it will attain union with Cosmic or Universal Consciousness,Universal Intelligence,or GOD, thus attaining freedom from Rebirth,or " moksha " …// //an intelligent person is known to be able to make active use of only a maximum of around 20-25% of his brain-cells,but when Kundalini energy begins feeding the brain,it can enable one to put to use, a much larger proportion of brain cells,and produce wonders… pre-cognisance,para-normal faculties of trans-body migration et al …)// It is the power of Brain/Mind. Thanks, M.S.bohra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Manoj ji, Good suggestion. Let me take it forward. We normally, do one or the other during navarathri. A) Recite lalitha sahasranama 2) Recite some chapters from Durga saptha shati 3) Recite Soundarya lahari 4) Recite various stotras in favor of devi. This is in addition to our daily prayers./Puja. Can my friends on the forum let me know what special recitations / observations they do during navarathri.? Thanks , Anita--- On Fri, 4/9/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: Manoj Chandran <chandran_manojRe: Re: Moksha... Date: Friday, 4 September, 2009, 1:32 PM Dear All, Animated discussions are very good, if it takes us some where. If it is about Jyotish, we can argue (or discuss), prove, verify and move on. We have entered a different domain with Moksha. Let me ask every one a question: Will any one ever discuss their intimate moments with their spouses/better half openly in Public? Ofcourse not. That relationship is very intimate and personal. Similarly each of our relationships with God is intimate and Personal. Even if some of us have had intimate moments of contact with God, it cannot be discussed in public. My humble suggestion is, let us leave this topic and move on to more mundane ones, before tempers become high and moderators have to disallow/edit emails etc. Regards, -Manoj s s <freemorons (AT) gmail (DOT) .com>ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, September 4, 2009 5:40:33 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Moksha... Dear Members,Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohrajidid not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which isimportant enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we gettingangry and saying "no no, man did not create God, you should believe this"?How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service ofBhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spirituallevel...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, weare going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana andblessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....othershave not yet got it...they will (i hope).There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seerswho gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - thisis patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophicaldevelopment, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into mostphilosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows alack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" - an armchairphilosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement ispartially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. Thisdoes not mean that all questions cannot be answered.By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular)and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin ofthe Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the fatherof God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appearedin front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness andpermission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child.Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditiand Kaashyapa etc....in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed havethe pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, astheir child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine ofinformation, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. .hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 > wrote:>>> *Dear Vinita ji,> yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the> mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said"when we are alone we> are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destructio n of> mind).....> Best regards,> gopi.> *> ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> <shankar_mamta@ ...> wrote:> >> >> > Dear Gopi ji,> >> > "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind> > only"> >> > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> >> > To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! > >> > Regards,> >> > vinita> >> >> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "gopi_b927"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > >> > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta. //> > >> > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination> > which> > > comes through mind only know?> > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE.......> > >> > > Regards,> > > gopi..> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > >> > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how> > much> > > of> > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > >> > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> > "god"/Moksha> > > > actually is.....> > > >> > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> > > are> > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > >> > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta.> > > >> > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > > >> > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham!> > > >> > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> > everything> > > is> > > > in the mind...including God...> > > >> > > > Regards and best wishes,> > > >> > > > vinita> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "msbohra62"> > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Members,> > > > >> > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> > > many> > > > years,is :-> > > > >> > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi- Devta" and getting desire> > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > >> > > > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> > > result> > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > >> > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > > >> > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> > > differences> > > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > God> > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > >> > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > "Param-Satta" (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or God> > > created> > > > Man ?> > > > >> > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > - In ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chn> > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > >onde> > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > _> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > ji,> > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > > > r.> > > > > > regards,> > > > > > gopi.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>> > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Buzz. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Gopi ji, Thanks for right comments ! M.S.Bohra , " gopi_b927 " <gopi_b927 wrote: > > Dear Bohra ji, > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created > Man ?// > > wonderful....this is a greatest puzzle no body can solve and we can only > quote scriptures.My humble opinion is scriptures/books have been written > down through the ages but no one practically solved it.If at all there > is anyone solved it practically can never put and be able to put in > WORDS. > > Love and regards, > gopi. > , " msbohra62 " > <msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > Dear Members, > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many > years,is :- > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire result > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences > ? > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ? > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created > Man ? > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > Thanks, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > >onde > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > Regards, > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > ji, > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > r. > > > regards, > > > gopi. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear friend, What you mentioned is so very right and true. Iagree to it completely. //These all register in our mind only.What is my religion,who are my parent,who am I,where we live,which is our mother country,as like that every thing registered in our mind only.And we see and analyse every thing accordingly our picture in our mind.// Religions , parents , mother country which you mentioned above are registered by the mind in your own words. I now ask you, a question that does this Mind which has registered these matters, now remember the same mattersof my past janma ? Or your past janma ? No. So how can we give mind the credence ? Is this mind not temporary then ??? What happens to the mind when a man is brain dead ? Boss dont talk here before those who have seen Life at close quarters, and also death, and beyond death. Bhaskar. , " msbohra62 " <msbohra62 wrote: > > Dear Members, > > Some hot reply expected by me because of my question which is directly related to once believe and faith.What every we learn by our parents or surrounding by which we make our faith about every thing including religious matter or others matter of the world. > > These all register in our mind only.What is my religion,who are my parent,who am I,where we live,which is our mother country,as like that every thing registered in our mind only.And we see and analyse every thing accordingly our picture in our mind. > > What ever you have the picture of your " Ishtha " (God) it is in our mind,what every you read about the your faith all illustrate in our mind.What every you learn more about any subject it is in our mind.What development you achieve spiritually it is also in your mind.These all different state of our mind,as like a Shadhak develop himself its all register in the mind.What ever he experience spiritually all register in mind. > > Dear Friend mind have intense power we can't imagine about it.What ever you think about any subject of this world,it is in your mind.If you not have any knowledge about any subject than you will not realise the existence of that subject. > > Knowledge is every thing in the world and knowledge can be learn by only mind.This knowledge you can't achieve without mind.Every feeling you feel because of mind,every illustration of any Vedas or Granth you understand by mind and all the knowledge register in the mind. > > Please read Bhagwat Geta's 4 chapter Shlok No 33 to 42.How by knowledge we become free from our Karma. > > Theory of " Nirgun " for Mokasha is a state of mind,as Lajmi ji have said in his Article as :- > > //3) The goal of this aroused Kundalini being the sahasrara chakra, (at the crown of the head),on piercing which,it will attain union with Cosmic or Universal Consciousness,Universal Intelligence,or GOD, thus attaining freedom from Rebirth,or " moksha " …// > > //an intelligent person is known to be able to make active use of only a maximum of around 20-25% of his brain-cells,but when Kundalini energy begins feeding the brain,it can enable one to put to use, a much larger proportion of brain cells,and produce wonders… pre-cognisance,para-normal faculties of trans-body migration et al …)// > > It is the power of Brain/Mind. > > Thanks, > > M.S.bohra > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 prANadAsa ji, I have read many times both of " Granth " but question is in my mind, which i have asked.Will you please reply me that what is the ultimate goal of all the " Granth " to read and understand ? Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ? Different people worship different Lords and getting accordingly,as like for " Shakti " people worship " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship " Ganesha " ,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than where is the existence of all these Lord ? I can understand that all the our 'Rishi-MahaRishi " are not less than any Lord because they have given us a religion and knowledge which leads us to further development of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Ultimate Knowledge). Thanks, M.S.Bohra , s s <freemorons wrote: > > Dear Members, > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohraji > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which is > important enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we getting > angry and saying " no no, man did not create God, you should believe this " ? > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service of > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, we > are going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana and > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seers > who gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - this > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into most > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement is > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. This > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular) > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin of > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the father > of God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appeared > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child. > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, as > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine of > information, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. . > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 wrote: > > > > > > > *Dear Vinita ji, > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the > > mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said " when we are alone we > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction of > > mind).... > > Best regards, > > gopi. > > * > > , " shankar_mamta " > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > " but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination which comes through mind > > > only " > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > To approach " God " we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " gopi_b927 " > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > > ego. > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > > karma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > > which > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > , " shankar_mamta " > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > > much > > > > of > > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > " god " /Moksha > > > > > actually is..... > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we > > > > are > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > > ego. > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego.... > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > everything > > > > is > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " msbohra62 " > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so > > > > many > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire > > > > result > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the > > > > differences > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > God > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > > created > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Friend, // Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of "Param-Tatva" where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ?// When you realise what is Love, Air and Pain, it is not a physical substance . Than how will you see them ? No You cant see them. In same way "Param Tattava" is not to be seen but felt. BUT He can also be seen, but not by ordinary folks. Yes he can be seen. But He cant be shown, unless you are ready and qualify to face Him. God is not here to prove Himself before the atheists. These atheists are breathing due to the Prana in their bodies, and this "Breath" and "Prana" are both given by this "Param Tattva". But its sad and unfortunate, that some people do not realise His existence and talk rubbish about it just because they have not felt or seen Him. Bhaskar. , "msbohra62" <msbohra62 wrote:>> prANadAsa ji,> > I have read many times both of "Granth" but question is in my mind, which i have asked.Will you please reply me that what is the ultimate goal of all the "Granth" to read and understand ?> > Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of "Param-Tatva" where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ?> > Different people worship different Lords and getting accordingly,as like for "Shakti" people worship "Devi" roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship "Ganesha",for Dhan they worship "Laximimata".Than where is the existence of all these Lord ?> > I can understand that all the our 'Rishi-MahaRishi" are not less than any Lord because they have given us a religion and knowledge which leads us to further development of our self being to "Param-Gyan" (Ultimate Knowledge).> > Thanks,> > M.S.Bohra> > > , s s freemorons@ wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohraji> > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which is> > important enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we getting> > angry and saying "no no, man did not create God, you should believe this"?> > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service of> > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual> > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, we> > are going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana and> > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others> > have not yet got it...they will (i hope).> > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seers> > who gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - this> > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical> > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into most> > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a> > lack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" - an armchair> > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement is> > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. This> > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered.> > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular)> > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin of> > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the father> > of God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appeared> > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and> > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child.> > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi> > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have> > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, as> > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine of> > information, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. .> > > > hari smaraNs,> > prANadAsa> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > >> > >> > > *Dear Vinita ji,> > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the> > > mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said"when we are alone we> > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction of> > > mind)....> > > Best regards,> > > gopi.> > > *> > > , "shankar_mamta"> > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > >> > > > "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind> > > > only"> > > >> > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> > > >> > > > To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > vinita> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "gopi_b927"> > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > > > >> > > > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > > > ego.> > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > > > karma...mukta.//> > > > >> > > > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination> > > > which> > > > > comes through mind only know?> > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > > gopi.> > > > >> > > > > , "shankar_mamta"> > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how> > > > much> > > > > of> > > > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > > > >> > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> > > > "god"/Moksha> > > > > > actually is.....> > > > > >> > > > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> > > > > are> > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > > > >> > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > > > ego.> > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > > > karma...mukta.> > > > > >> > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > > > > >> > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham!> > > > > >> > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> > > > everything> > > > > is> > > > > > in the mind...including God...> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards and best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > vinita> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "msbohra62"> > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> > > > > many> > > > > > years,is :-> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi-Devta" and getting desire> > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> > > > > result> > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> > > > > differences> > > > > > ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > > > God> > > > > ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > > > "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God> > > > > created> > > > > > Man ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn> > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > > > >onde> > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > _> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha...> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ji,> > > > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > > > > > r.> > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji, //now remember the same mattersof my past janma ? Or your past janma ?// Yes ! But you will realise it when you develop your mind that level to know it.You have to achieve that state of mind as like Yogi can. Here nobody have the ability to see the death and beyond the death.Some time you asked the question spiritually and some time Medically,as like brain death,if the brain dead means complete death than man is called dead.If not than who knows that what is in the brain ?It is also a state of brain. Any way it is best to stop here further discussion on this topic,other are feeling that this is out of the track because of Astrological forum. Please don't take my comments personally. Thanks, M.S.Bohra , " bhaskar_jyotish " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear friend, > > What you mentioned is so very right and true. Iagree to it completely. > > //These all register in our mind only.What is my religion,who are my > parent,who am I,where we live,which is our mother country,as like that > every thing registered in our mind only.And we see and analyse every > thing accordingly our picture in our mind.// > > Religions , parents , mother country which you mentioned above are > registered by the mind in your own words. I now ask you, a question > that does this Mind which has registered these matters, now remember the > same mattersof my past janma ? Or your past janma ? No. So how can we > give mind the credence ? Is this mind not temporary then ??? > > What happens to the mind when a man is brain dead ? > > Boss dont talk here before those who have seen Life at close quarters, > and also death, and beyond death. > > Bhaskar. > , " msbohra62 " > <msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Some hot reply expected by me because of my question which is directly > related to once believe and faith.What every we learn by our parents or > surrounding by which we make our faith about every thing including > religious matter or others matter of the world. > > > > These all register in our mind only.What is my religion,who are my > parent,who am I,where we live,which is our mother country,as like that > every thing registered in our mind only.And we see and analyse every > thing accordingly our picture in our mind. > > > > What ever you have the picture of your " Ishtha " (God) it is in our > mind,what every you read about the your faith all illustrate in our > mind.What every you learn more about any subject it is in our mind.What > development you achieve spiritually it is also in your mind.These all > different state of our mind,as like a Shadhak develop himself its all > register in the mind.What ever he experience spiritually all register in > mind. > > > > Dear Friend mind have intense power we can't imagine about it.What > ever you think about any subject of this world,it is in your mind.If you > not have any knowledge about any subject than you will not realise the > existence of that subject. > > > > Knowledge is every thing in the world and knowledge can be learn by > only mind.This knowledge you can't achieve without mind.Every feeling > you feel because of mind,every illustration of any Vedas or Granth you > understand by mind and all the knowledge register in the mind. > > > > Please read Bhagwat Geta's 4 chapter Shlok No 33 to 42.How by > knowledge we become free from our Karma. > > > > Theory of " Nirgun " for Mokasha is a state of mind,as Lajmi ji have > said in his Article as :- > > > > //3) The goal of this aroused Kundalini being the sahasrara chakra, > (at the crown of the head),on piercing which,it will attain union with > Cosmic or Universal Consciousness,Universal Intelligence,or GOD, thus > attaining freedom from Rebirth,or " moksha " …// > > > > //an intelligent person is known to be able to make active use of only > a maximum of around 20-25% of his brain-cells,but when Kundalini energy > begins feeding the brain,it can enable one to put to use, a much larger > proportion of brain cells,and produce wonders… > pre-cognisance,para-normal faculties of trans-body migration et al > …)// > > > > It is the power of Brain/Mind. > > > > Thanks, > > > > M.S.bohra > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Excellent - my praNams to you for having read them. It is time perhaps,now, to study them and to digest them. The ultimate goal is to realize the greatness of Paramtatva to the maximum capacity within us, for no one can understand such greatness to any measurable extent. The point here is that these granths are roadmaps - and how far and how quickly one travels is dependent on one's blessings and individual capacity. Jnyana (realization, function of the rational, male part of brain) and Bhakti (devotion, function of the emotional, female part of the brain) are the two eyes to our journey to Godhead.Your comments convey that you believe in the former being more important than the latter, which is debatable.Upanishad's reveal that the mind is made of 5 layers: manas (information gathering), buddhi (decision making), ahankara (sense of self, identity), chitta (temorary memory - of one lifetime), and chEtana (deep memory, of every single lifetime, every second). While I agree that the mind is important, knowledge is important etc, it cannot be the sole reason for Moksha. I really do not understand your query about " where is the existence of all? " . Consider your father. He is a husband, a father, a son, a brother, a friend, a customer, a service provider - everything. There are multiple roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing different roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in him and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it is due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are open even a bit.hari smaraNs,prANadAsa On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: prANadAsa ji, I have read many times both of " Granth " but question is in my mind, which i have asked.Will you please reply me that what is the ultimate goal of all the " Granth " to read and understand ? Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ? Different people worship different Lords and getting accordingly,as like for " Shakti " people worship " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship " Ganesha " ,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than where is the existence of all these Lord ? I can understand that all the our 'Rishi-MahaRishi " are not less than any Lord because they have given us a religion and knowledge which leads us to further development of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Ultimate Knowledge). Thanks, M.S.Bohra , s s <freemorons wrote: > > Dear Members, > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohraji > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which is > important enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we getting > angry and saying " no no, man did not create God, you should believe this " ? > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service of > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, we > are going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana and > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seers > who gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - this > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into most > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement is > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. This > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular) > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin of > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the father > of God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appeared > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child. > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, as > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine of > information, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. . > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 wrote: > > > > > > > *Dear Vinita ji, > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the > > mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said " when we are alone we > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction of > > mind).... > > Best regards, > > gopi. > > * > > , " shankar_mamta " > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > " but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination which comes through mind > > > only " > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > To approach " God " we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " gopi_b927 " > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > > ego. > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > > karma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > > which > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > , " shankar_mamta " > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > > much > > > > of > > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > " god " /Moksha > > > > > actually is..... > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we > > > > are > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > > ego. > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego.... > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > everything > > > > is > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " msbohra62 " > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so > > > > many > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire > > > > result > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the > > > > differences > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > God > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > > created > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Thanks for your kind reply but you have not take my question as :- //Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ?// Without " Jayana " , " Bhakti " will not arise,both are happens in our mind.All the illustration of our Deity happens in our mind.If we do meditation than we concentrate on any Deity it is also in our mind. Shrikrishana said in BG " Tatavgyan ko prapt hua gyani sab kuch vashudev hi hai arthat vashudev ke siva anay kuch hai hi nahi " Where we realise the Tatvagyan.Every realisation is in the mind. Every knowledge,every feelings,every imagination are happens in the mind.If you become free from will than it is also a state of mind. M.S.Bohra e e: > s,now, > to study them andfor havort them.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > greatness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c can > understand such gre maximum cimy measable e exten The p int here i thata> the hese granths are roadmaps -ntenentantarnow q qukqu one traravelsels is ependendenn ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > J > Jnyalealieation,ion, fuio of he ratio far iaralpaalpaapaoity.ain) yanyaBhakti f nctun on,nonctioctti the ethe onal,naelale ple pare part of the b are > the the tion oesthe emotioual, foYourdcommencs nts contsy that ou believe > en t > in the formGodhead.Youre importa lat er, wr whicr is > deba > debatanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of ade of 5 layeas >manas > (tioormation gathemind e mind is the minahanahankarahankara (senelf, erelfathecthechit thechitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > , >f, > ory, ryory, r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s at r liports lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or >foeaora. > ha. > > ha. > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of tence ersta allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > roles roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing different > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in him > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it is > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa > > > > >n evepen Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@. e owen Sep On009 at 11 adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > question is in my mind, which i > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > the " Gr > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > th real> > th rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > am-Tatva " > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a Physical > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > h Diff > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? ga> > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor Dhance of > > alp " Lese Lmata " Than whe > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > >n undeess than any > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > I celigion and >nowledge which leads us to i > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf . > > > > eing to > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > <a --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > s s> > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > Bohraji > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which > > is > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > ds - so why are we > > getting > > > angry which >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > this " ? > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate God, y > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, > > we > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana and > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe our > > seers > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > this > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into > > most > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement > > is > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. > > This > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > particular) > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin > > of > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves alizatio > > father ly when he > > appear> > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the child. > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, > > as > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine > > of > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad gIta. > > . > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise > > the > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > >d " when weVinita jie > > we > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa(destruction of > > > > mind).... > > > > Best regards, > > > > gopiGu > > > > * > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes through > > mind > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free Mind of > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > > > > which > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > > > > much > > > > > > of > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > >how > > > > >ha > > > > > > > of > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So long as > > we > > > is > are > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... fect us....and we become free > > of > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > everything > > > > > > is > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > >nd best >shes, > n <%40.\ com>, > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind for > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting > > desire > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > result > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > God > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > > > > created > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com<%40>, > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize > > that > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Smt Anitaji, Namaste. Your course of action will certainly give the CHITTA SUDDHI. Above that , the mind makes all such division in the manifestation to seek the meaning of Moksha. But the real key is lying in SILENCE. Silence is the relentless conversation- says Bhagvan Ramana. But we have to watch the mind how it asks questions including the spiritual truths. On such meditaion you come to realise that the manifestation is all in one and there are no Anitajis, Bhaskarjis, Gopijis and Bohrajis and all become ONE. Moksha is not an after life phenomenon but realtime bliss during one is alive. Kindly pardon me If I have said anything wrong and hurt anybody.With best regards to allS.R.Balasubramaniam--- On Fri, 4/9/09, Anita R <ash.rsh55 wrote:Anita R <ash.rsh55Re: Re: Moksha... Date: Friday, 4 September, 2009, 9:23 PM Dear Manoj ji, Good suggestion. Let me take it forward. We normally, do one or the other during navarathri. A) Recite lalitha sahasranama 2) Recite some chapters from Durga saptha shati 3) Recite Soundarya lahari 4) Recite various stotras in favor of devi. This is in addition to our daily prayers./Puja. Can my friends on the forum let me know what special recitations / observations they do during navarathri.? Thanks , Anita--- On Fri, 4/9/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote: Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Moksha...ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, 4 September, 2009, 1:32 PM Dear All, Animated discussions are very good, if it takes us some where. If it is about Jyotish, we can argue (or discuss), prove, verify and move on. We have entered a different domain with Moksha. Let me ask every one a question: Will any one ever discuss their intimate moments with their spouses/better half openly in Public? Ofcourse not. That relationship is very intimate and personal. Similarly each of our relationships with God is intimate and Personal. Even if some of us have had intimate moments of contact with God, it cannot be discussed in public. My humble suggestion is, let us leave this topic and move on to more mundane ones, before tempers become high and moderators have to disallow/edit emails etc. Regards, -Manoj s s <freemorons (AT) gmail (DOT) .com>ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, September 4, 2009 5:40:33 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Moksha... Dear Members,Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohrajidid not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which isimportant enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we gettingangry and saying "no no, man did not create God, you should believe this"?How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service ofBhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spirituallevel...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, weare going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana andblessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....othershave not yet got it...they will (i hope).There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seerswho gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - thisis patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophicaldevelopment, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into mostphilosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows alack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" - an armchairphilosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement ispartially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. Thisdoes not mean that all questions cannot be answered.By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular)and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin ofthe Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the fatherof God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appearedin front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness andpermission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child.Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditiand Kaashyapa etc....in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed havethe pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, astheir child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine ofinformation, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. .hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 > wrote:>>> *Dear Vinita ji,> yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the> mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said"when we are alone we> are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destructio n of> mind).....> Best regards,> gopi.> *> ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> <shankar_mamta@ ...> wrote:> >> >> > Dear Gopi ji,> >> > "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind> > only"> >> > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> >> > To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! > >> > Regards,> >> > vinita> >> >> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "gopi_b927"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > >> > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta. //> > >> > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination> > which> > > comes through mind only know?> > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE.......> > >> > > Regards,> > > gopi..> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > >> > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how> > much> > > of> > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > >> > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> > "god"/Moksha> > > > actually is.....> > > >> > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> > > are> > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > >> > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta.> > > >> > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > > >> > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham!> > > >> > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> > everything> > > is> > > > in the mind...including God...> > > >> > > > Regards and best wishes,> > > >> > > > vinita> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "msbohra62"> > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Members,> > > > >> > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> > > many> > > > years,is :-> > > > >> > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi- Devta" and getting desire> > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > >> > > > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> > > result> > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > >> > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > > >> > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> > > differences> > > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > God> > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > >> > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > "Param-Satta" (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or God> > > created> > > > Man ?> > > > >> > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > - In ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chn> > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > >onde> > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > _> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > ji,> > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > > > r.> > > > > > regards,> > > > > > gopi.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>> > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Buzz. Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 It is not a matter of to say Excellent and Pranams.The word " Read " used here not for as news reader used to read the news,If can't understand the essence of word than it is our fault.Here Read means Reading,understanding and thinking about it.In simple way we use English word " Read " for Hindi word 'Adhyan'.It include " Chintan " , " Manan " also. The word you have used " Digest " ,even life time consumed on the " Granths " Lt. Swami Ramshukhdas ji and Harihar ji Maharaj never claim that they have " Digest " BG.Digest means you have 'Aatmsath " the all the knowledge nothing have left now after that,you become a " Param-Tatava " after that nothing to achieve. So I am unable to use the word 'Digest' here in this reference. you have stated, //The ultimate goal is to realize the greatness of Paramtatva to the maximum capacity within us// The words " Within us " ,where it is realise ? You have well said that Granths are road-maps which guide us to achieve the ultimate goal.Travelling and reaching at the Paramtatva,where happens all these ?Who travel and who achieve ?How it realisation that we have achieved,where we get this knowledge,who confirm it ? Moksha means free from all karma,please see the reference of BG Chapter 4 verse 37,do you agree with now ?Every thing which we read and get the knowledge & realisation of Parmtatva are in the mind only. Achieving " Sadguna " to become " Nirguna " all happens in the mind in a living body,other than this there is no evidence.I have given the example of Ramakrishna and Buddha. You have given the example of my father every body seen him differently than actually what is my father ?If i see in him a loving father,where all these I realise ?Than where is the tatva " Father " is because my mother have not seen in him the " Father " tatva. Its all not in our mind ? M.S.Bohra > Exce Excellenpra my praNams to you for read thread them. It is time perhaps,now, > to study them and tu for ht them. The e timate goal is to realize the > greatness of Paramtatva to the maxpacity witity within us, for no one can > understand such greathe maximumy measuxtent. xhe pointe point here is that > these granths are roadmaps - far an far quicklyquickly one travels is > dependent on one'saps - angs aw far acapacityapa Jn. > Jnylizaatilizaation, functhhe rational, male , rt of brt o) anain) and > Bhakti (devotio, funcction mmoionem, fmal, partt of rhe br in) are >) ae two eyesnwo eyesnctionr journey to Godhcommennts cmennts conveou believe b in the f in the former being more important than the latter, which is > debatable.Upanishad's reveal that the de of 5 la of 5 layers: maformat (information gatherh thebuddhh the mind i making), annse o (sennse of self, > ihittta riemorara (temorary m, ahanfetimee) anetchEEtanad chEEtana > iy, of ever , of e llife ngleonvele otimedvelifetimed)gre tlaat tgre nd f ever rypof ever rypoledgt is iwpodge is importannonot be annonot be the for > Moks for > I re. > > I really do not unde queryour r query about " where tence ofxistence of > all? " . Con underyour father. He is a husband, an,n, a brson,n, a brother, a > friendr, acustomer, a service provider - everything. There are multiple > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing different > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in him > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it is > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are open > > ht. > > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa op2009S9 at1:300909 , msbohrM, , msbohra62 <msbohra62 wroi, n Fri, > > , 2009 > > que > > > question is in my mind, which i > > have asjealessej pjealease reply me that what is the ultimate Granth " " Gr " Grane " to read h " to read and understand ? >ed.Wil isalisu roulisalise all ,afterdgledge,after getting the knowle > rehere yoe changes a the yourself.If y yourself.If you gee of " Param-Tat of " Param-Tatva " > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar isaaraPaot a hysict aot a Physical > > substance than how im > >e> DiffeDiffer> nt peole ifferent people worship t ?Param-Taacco and getting accordingl yShakti " see how yShakti " see hoop,fDr Budhoop, roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship Dhan th,fora " ,for Dhan they worship imatimimaan whhre is th is the existence of > > all thes ? >rd ? > > > > >derstand ttand that all thorshr 'Riaximiaata " .Tha are not less than any > > Lord bll tse they have gi caneligion and knowl kge ledge which leads us to > > furthelodmenlopment of lfr self bo " Param-Garam-Gyan " (Un us t religionge). > > > > Thanks, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > -ancie t_inentn_ndian_ogy (AT) g (DOT) com<%40.\ com>, > > s s> > >e> --ns@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > Bohraji > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which > > is importimportant enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we > > getting > > > angry ich > >ing " no no, man did not create God, yod believe elieve > > this " ? > > > How many of us haveelyncereizeutilized our intellects in the serve God, you > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > level...but as long as all spiall spiritually curious with our intellect, > > we > > > are going in the right directionas long f us, by virtue of sadhana and > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectaakti....oth....others > > > have nott it...t it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > There are also some here who ne so one so far as to> have at maybe our > > seers > > > who gave us the scriptures also may hav here solved these questions - > > this > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophi > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into > > most > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement > > is > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. > > This > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > particular) > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization tha is no is no origin > > of > > > the Paa...atva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves azation > > father ly when he > > appear> > > > in front of them (they ceak ospeak only because of His kindness and > > > per anyway anyway), and ie is the duty of the fames to name the child. > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi > > > and Kaashyapa etc...iinstah instances, these exalted devotees indeed have > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, > > as > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine > > of > > > information, but dhe grento t of ly after youhe one wihe Bhagawad gIta. > > . > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > e Bhagawa > > > *Dear V > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise > > the > > > > mi <gopi_bi27@>ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > >d " when wenita ji, e > > we > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofndleonasa(destruction of > > > > mind).... > > > > Best regards, > > > > gopiru > > > > * > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > < regard_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ient_indthe mind " is also an imagination which comes through > > mind > > >kar_ only " > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > To approachtion which coe to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > e...>soinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free nd i of > > > > > > >but ma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > > > > which > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > > > > much > > > > > > of > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > >w > > > > > mha > > > > > > of > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond thod mad bs where karma ceases. So long as > > we > > > s > > are > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing sho... > fect us....and we become free > > of > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > everything > > > > > > is > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > >> But> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > best wi >es, > > n <%40.\ com>, > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questiora62 " y mind for > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting > > desire > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > result > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > God > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > > > > created > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In <%40.\ com>, > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize > > that > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is being discussed before we come to the conclusion. If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no central nervous system and so no brain and no consciousness)? That is just ridiculous, and is shastra-viruddha. Other than the mImAmsakas and the nAstikyavAdins, the existence of Atma is not at all debated and is accepted as direct pramANa....maybe you to one of those schools. See, it is like telling that there is no mango, only mango taste is there...you are describing the symptom, we are talking about the underlying phenomenon. The mind is an attribute of the soul, one of the faculties it uses, just like the senses. I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, it appears to be the display of one's own limited understanding - instead of showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to which you have progressed spiritually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight anger earlier - he realized it much earlier than I did. In the same BG that you quote mercilessly in Hindi, Krishna says " ahaMkArO vimUDhAtmA aham sarvEti manyate " : " The arrogant, ignorant person thinks the mind to be everything " . I guess you skipped that part. If i sound rash, I apologize - I simply don't like half-cooked arguments which are born out of pseudo-academic pursuits....one has to meditate, realize and digest the matter before sharing, or atlease one has to be humble in discussing it with others. It is because of such degradation that a lot of youngsters are losing faith in sanAtana dharma. hari smaraNs,prANadAsa. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:52 PM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: Thanks for your kind reply but you have not take my question as :- //Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ?// Without " Jayana " , " Bhakti " will not arise,both are happens in our mind.All the illustration of our Deity happens in our mind.If we do meditation than we concentrate on any Deity it is also in our mind. Shrikrishana said in BG " Tatavgyan ko prapt hua gyani sab kuch vashudev hi hai arthat vashudev ke siva anay kuch hai hi nahi " Where we realise the Tatvagyan.Every realisation is in the mind. Every knowledge,every feelings,every imagination are happens in the mind.If you become free from will than it is also a state of mind. M.S.Bohra e e: > s,now, > to study them andfor havort them.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > greatness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c can > understand such gre maximum cimy measable e exten The p int here i thata> the hese granths are roadmaps -ntenentantarnow q qukqu one traravelsels is ependendenn ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > J > Jnyalealieation,ion, fuio of he ratio far iaralpaalpaapaoity.ain) yanyaBhakti f nctun on,nonctioctti the ethe onal,naelale ple pare part of the b are > the the tion oesthe emotioual, foYourdcommencs nts contsy that ou believe > en t > in the formGodhead.Youre importa lat er, wr whicr is > deba > debatanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of ade of 5 layeas >manas > (tioormation gathemind e mind is the minahanahankarahankara (senelf, erelfathecthechit thechitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > , >f, > ory, ryory, r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s at r liports lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or >foeaora. > ha. > > ha. > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of tence ersta allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > roles roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing different > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in him > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it is > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa > > > > >n evepen Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@. e owen Sep On009 at 11 adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > question is in my mind, which i > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > the " Gr > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > th real> > th rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > am-Tatva " > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a Physical > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > h Diff > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? ga> > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor Dhance of > > alp " Lese Lmata " Than whe > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > >n undeess than any > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > I celigion and >nowledge which leads us to i > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf . > > > > eing to > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > <a --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > s s> > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > Bohraji > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which > > is > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > ds - so why are we > > getting > > > angry which >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > this " ? > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate God, y > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, > > we > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana and > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe our > > seers > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > this > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into > > most > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement > > is > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. > > This > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > particular) > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin > > of > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves alizatio > > father ly when he > > appear> > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the child. > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, > > as > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine > > of > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad gIta. > > . > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise > > the > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > >d " when weVinita jie > > we > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa(destruction of > > > > mind).... > > > > Best regards, > > > > gopiGu > > > > * > > > > <%40>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes through > > mind > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free Mind of > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > > > > which > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > > > > much > > > > > > of > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > >how > > > > >ha > > > > > > > of > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So long as > > we > > > is > are > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... fect us....and we become free > > of > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > everything > > > > > > is > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > >nd best >shes, > n <%40>, > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind for > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting > > desire > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > result > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > God > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > > > > created > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com<%40>, > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize > > that > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji, In your word, //In same way " Param Tattava " is not to be seen but felt.// If you felt it,Where you or other felt it ? //But its sad and unfortunate, that some people do not realise His existence and talk rubbish about it just because they have not felt or seen Him.// If you realise his existence than where you realise it ?It can be only felt because there is no Physical existence of him,than where he exist ? Every thing is within us but we are searching it in other world.All the travelling happens within us,all the development happens within us,in the our mind. M.S.Bohra , " bhaskar_jyotish " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Friend, > > // Where you realise all the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where > you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of > " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ?Param-Tatva > is not a Physical substance than how you will see him ? > // > > When you realise what is Love, Air and Pain, it is not a physical > substance . Than how will you see them ? > > No You cant see them. > > In same way " Param Tattava " is not to be seen but felt. BUT He can also > be seen, but not by ordinary folks. > > Yes he can be seen. But He cant be shown, unless you are ready and > qualify to face Him. > > God is not here to prove Himself before the atheists. These atheists are > breathing due to the Prana in their bodies, and this " Breath " and > " Prana " are both given by this " Param Tattva. Butt its sad and > unfortunat, thaa some people do not realise His existence and talk > rubbish about it just because they have not felt or seen Him. > > Bhaskar. > > > ancient_indian_astrolog, " msbohra62 " > <msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > prANadAsaji, > > > > > I have read many times both oGranth " b " t ut question is in my mind, > which i have as.Will ll you please reply me that what is the ultimate > goal of all the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > Where you real all tl the knowledge,after getting the knowledge where > you feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledge of > " Param-Tatva " where you feel it ?Than where is Ishwar exist ram-Tmtva >a > is not a Physical substance thaow youyou wille himh? > > > > > > Different people worship different Lords and getting accordingly,as > like for " Shakti " people worship " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they > wip " Ga " Ganesha " ,for Dhan theyshipship imimama " .Than han where is the > existence of the these Lord ? > > I can u an understand that all the our 'Rishi-MahaRishi " are not less than > any Lord because they have gus a ueligion aion and knowledge which leads > us to further development of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Ultimate > Knowledge). > > > > Thanks, > > > > M.S.Boh> > > > > > > > , s s freemorons@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > Mocking or repudiaters who ass who asked a sincere question is bad - > Bohraji > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical queshich is > which is hy are we > getting > > > angry and saying " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > this " ? > > > How many of usod, you sherely utilized our intellects in the service > of > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different > spiritual > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our >as long ct, we > > > are going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana > and > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > Bhakti....others > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > haveere are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe > our see who h > who gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions > - this > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep > into most > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > shows a > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > armchair > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > statement is > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > words. This > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > particular) > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > origin of > > > the Para-tatva...hat ther some sages lovingly call themsela-taas the > father > > > of God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he > appeared > > > in front of themtaneoy could speak only because of His kindness and > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the > child. > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to > Aditi > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed > have > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > origin, as reatestheir ce gre Bhaskarji iwithout >the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold > mine of > > > information, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad > gIta. . > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAs gIta. > > > > > > ari smaraN, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Dear Vinitawrote: > > > >s you are right.Cent *Decr Viniteed.We sh > > yes indless, > otherwise the > > > > mind(culprit) will not leaveherwalone.e > urudev said " when we are > alone we > > > > are with GOD''.MAHheSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction > of > > > > mind).... > > > > Best regards, > > > > gopi. > > > > * > > > > ancient_i> > > >strology , " shankar_mamta " > > > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > amta " > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > " but ''beyond the mind " ji, lso an imagination which comes > through mind > > > > > only " > > > > > comes > throt is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > as e To approach " God " we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " gopi_b927 " > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post thouta ji,is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with haps, the > > > > > >ific. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should aff >t us....and we become > free of > > > > > > > karma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind " is also an > imagination > > > > > which > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > , > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyon> > e " mind " ....no matter > how > > > > > much > > > > > > of > > > > > > > an oxymor> > much > > e. > > > > > > > > > > > an > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where ie in he> > > > " god " /Moksha > > actually is..... > > > > " g> > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So > long as we > > > > > > are > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but ident > > >ion of the self with > i, the > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become > free of > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > ly ag everything > > > > > > is > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > vinita >nd best w> > s, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind > for so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-De> > > > H > getting desire differetisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there > desire > > > > > > result > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > >hrist> > What are the common factors in above all and what are the > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the > Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > God > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or > God > > > > > > created > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discreatedothers topics not related to > Astrology > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > subjM.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >hanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > recognize that > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Very sorry to say tha my have taken me wrongly and interprited my questions wrongly.These all not " Shartra-Virudha " at all,as you ahve mentioned. Do we know that Plant does not have the mind ?Than who control there all growth and activity to alive ? can we compare Mango with Parmtatva and it is not Shastra-Virudh act ? You are searching in papers,where you have said Granths are only roadmaps.But i am in search within us. Asking the questions are not arrogance and being non-humble with any one.If you feel it than i apologize for the same. I accept i have limited understanding for that reasons i have asked the these questions here, before wise persons as like you. Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma etc to stop me to arising the questions which have made you uneasy.I am not have the capacity to influence the youth of mass. I am searching the ultimate power (Ishawar,God)inside us and you are claiming it is exist in outer world,out side of us.It is the only difference. Pranam, M.S.Bohra e: > > One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is > being discussed before we come to the conclusion. > If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > c ent ral nervous system ad so nno brain and no consciousness)?ve no is just > riicculuss, and is shasta-viruddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsakka anddthe nAsikyavvAdinss, the xistnce o. Ottheritthan te all dbbate and he > nAstid >as di ireche eitecee oaoayb ou sbbcribebl eee oooo thsh s hoolss. > S ee, et istlike tel telling thobse bse is no mango, onlanggo ste ite is > the...u are deecribingbing the symptom, we are talking about the underlying > phenomenon. The mind is an attribute of the soul, one of the faculties it > uses, just like the senses. > > I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > aears rs to to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > a of > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > which you have progressed spiritually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight > anger earl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > I > > In > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says " ahaMkArO > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a " : a,aignoi,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthinks the > ae ti man " Thman rohe arroganti iganti ignoraat I > s I > s > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-academic pursuits.... ta med>treeed> rea, > andize and digest the matter sharin shariatl or atlease one has to be > humble in discusswith otwirs. It rs. It is because of such deon that > ahlotuss lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. >ar hari > > hari smaraNs, > prANa > On Fri, i, ma. <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > , > > > 1:for : > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t " Param-Tatva " > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a Physical > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ t > > aham-Ta/ > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc D iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also na > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > k > hai artha hi > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > h > > .. v hi > > ev e svva anay ucyhei h v seudav > h ..eihappeeratudav > > ..e happeerat eashudes,ke si a alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > re happet is also a stathe am agyab.E eey ree isomhwn i tha it is > > > eate of mind >every, > > > tra > d > > m > > > >he:o> > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c a to T e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve maximum amucapasable e exten Th p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> >ant> J > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn ones anyaand -ngs >r and r idual c ,nt> > octti > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > the apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > nctun > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par pa> in the b are > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is foY>urdca mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad.Youre mporta lat er, w whacr is athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha e aderof ade cthechit as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > , > > >f, > > > ory, > > ryory, > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > at r > > liports > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > >foeaora. > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > tence ersta > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > roles > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > different > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in > > him > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it > > is > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > the " Gr > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > th > > real> > th > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > am-Tatva " > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > Physical > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > ga> > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > Dhance of > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > Than whe > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > >n undeess than any > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > I celigion and > > >nowledge which leads us to > > i > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf . > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com><a > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > s s> > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > > > Bohraji > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question > > which > > > > is > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > getting > > > > > angry which > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > this " ? > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate > > God, y > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > intellect, > > > > we > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana > > and > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > Bhakti....others > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe > > our > > > > seers > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > > > this > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep > > into > > > > most > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > shows a > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > armchair > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > statement > > > > is > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > words. > > > > This > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > particular) > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > origin > > > > of > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > alizatio > > > > father > > ly when he > > > > appear> > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > child. > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to > > Aditi > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed > > have > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > origin, > > > > as > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold > > mine > > > > of > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > gIta. > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > otherwise > > > > the > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > we > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa(destruction > > of > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > * > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40>, > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > through > > > > mind > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40>, > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > > > the > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become > > free > > Mind of > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > imagination > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40>, > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter > > how > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > of > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > >how > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > long as > > > > we > > > > > is > > > are > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with > > i, > > > > the > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > fect us....and we become free > > > > of > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > >nd best >shes, > > > n <%40.\ com> > > <%40>, > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind > > for > > > > so > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or > > God > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > <%40>, > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > recognize > > > > that > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Search and he will help you find him. If the yearning is there ... the road will appear. Keep on searching. I want to repeat a few words that Osho has said for this search ( not exact words or as comprehensive ). "Let your search for the truth be a feminine approach. As opposed to the masculine approach in science, wherin the subject of the search is disected, torn apart , nay destroyed so that you can understand the mystery and the mystery stands no more. You will be happy and demystified but the subject will have to perish. In your travel inward the mystery will depeen, but you will not be annoyed. You will not tear apart the subject of your search, you will not be annoyed. You will not be discouraged ......." Keep on searching. Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Sat, 5/9/09, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: msbohra62 <msbohra62 Re: Moksha... Date: Saturday, 5 September, 2009, 10:46 AM Very sorry to say tha my have taken me wrongly and interprited my questions wrongly.These all not "Shartra-Virudha" at all,as you ahve mentioned.Do we know that Plant does not have the mind ?Than who control there all growth and activity to alive ?can we compare Mango with Parmtatva and it is not Shastra-Virudh act ?You are searching in papers,where you have said Granths are only roadmaps.But i am in search within us.Asking the questions are not arrogance and being non-humble with any one.If you feel it than i apologize for the same.I accept i have limited understanding for that reasons i have asked the these questions here, before wise persons as like you.Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh, losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma etc to stop me to arising the questions which have made you uneasy.I am not have the capacity to influence the youth of mass.I am searching the ultimate power (Ishawar,God) inside us and you are claiming it is exist in outer world,out side of us.It is the only difference.Pranam,M.S.Bohrae:>> One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is> being discussed before we come to the conclusion.> If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no> central nervous system ad so nno brain and no consciousness) ?ve no is just> riicculuss, and is shasta-viruddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsakka anddthenAsikyavvAdinss, the xistnce o. Ottheritthan te all dbbate and he> nAstid>asdiireche eitecee oaoayb ou sbbcribebl eee oooo thsh s hoolss.> See, et istlike tel telling thobse bse is no mango, onlanggo ste ite is> the...u are deecribingbing the symptom, we are talking about the underlying> phenomenon. The mind is an attribute of the soul, one of the faculties it> uses, just like the senses.> > I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me> - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > aearsrs to to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it> a of> showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to> which you have progressed spiritually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight> anger earl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > I> > In > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says "ahaMkArO> vimUaham sarvEt: " : a " : a,aignoi,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthinks the> ae ti man "Thman rohe arroganti iganti ignoraat I> sI> s> g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo- academic pursuits.... ta med>treeed> rea,> andize and digest the matter sharin shariatl or atlease one has to be> humble in discusswith otwirs. It rs. It is because of such deon that> ahlotusslotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma.>ar hari > > hari smaraNs,> prANa > On Fri,i, ma.<rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > >,>> >1:for :>> >:, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you> >/Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you> > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t "Param-Tatva"> > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a Physical> > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/t >> aham-Ta/> >> > Wi-Ta/t> >>ana"ithouc "Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull>tiolhnoillulslityo happons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc Diay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs alsona> id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad.> >k > hai artha hi> > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai> > h> >.v hi> > ev e svvaanay ucyhei h v seudav > h.eihappeeratudav > >.e happeerat eashudes,ke si aalay ku.h hyy higlahim"> re happet is also a stathe am agyab.Eeey reeisomhwn ithait is >> > eate of mind>every,> > > tra> d> > m> >> >he:o> > >m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the> > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c a to Te mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve maximum amucapasable e exten Thp Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene eexten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat>>ant> J> > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapao itdendnnn onesanyaand -ngs>r and r idual c,nt>> octti> > > Jnyalal,naelaln, ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara> theapaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf> > nctun> >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple parpa> in the b are> ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir isfoY>urdcammencs ts atanishadanishad' s reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad. Youre mporta lat er, wwhacr isathemide e mind is the minahanahankarahank aal that thae aderof ade cthechitas>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf,> > > ,> > >f,> > > ory,> > ryory,> > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid) . Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s> > at r> > liports> > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or> > >foeaora.> > >> > ha.> > >> > >> > ha.> > >> > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout "where istenee of> > tence ersta> > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda> > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le> > > roles> >> > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing> > different> > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in> > him> > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of> > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna> > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be.> > >> > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it> > is> > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit.> > >> > > hari smaraNs,> > > prANadAsa> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >n evepen> >> > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep> >> > On009 at 11> >> > adAsa 009 adAsa ji,> > > >> > question is in my mind, which i> > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu> > > > the "Gr> > > > the "Granth" to read and understand ?> > > > th> > real> > th> > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you> > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of "> > > am-Tatva"> > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a> > Physical> > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl >> > > h Diff> > > >> > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ?> > ga>> > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly, as like> > > >an howShakti" l seeehim ?hip "Devi" roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship> > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship "Laximimata" .Than > "Ganes thefor> > Dhance of> > > > alp "Lese Lmata"> > Than whe> >> > > >n understand that all th worese i"Laxiaimata" .T> > > >n undeess than any> > > > Lord b allse they have gi >> > > > I celigion and> > >nowledge which leads us to> > i >> > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to "Param-Gyan" (Uer det a religigf .> > > >> > > > eing to> > > >> > > > M.S.Bohra> > > >> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com><a> > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastr ologgroups. com>,> > > > s s>> > > >e> > ns@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad -> > > > Bohraji> > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question> > which> > > > is> > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis> > > > ds - so why are we> > > > getting> > > > > angry which> > >ing "no no, man did not create God, you should believe> > > > this"?> > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate> > God, y> > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual> > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our> > intellect,> > > > we> > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana> > and> > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of> > Bhakti....others> > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope).> > > > >> > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe> > our> > > > seers> > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions -> > > > this> > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical> > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep> > into> > > > most> > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly> > shows a> > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" - an> > armchair> > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's> > statement> > > > is> > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into> > words.> > > > This> > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered.> > > > >> > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in> > > > particular)> > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no> > origin> > > > of> > > > > the Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves> > alizatio> > > > father> > ly when he> > > > appear> >> > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and> > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the> > child.> > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to> > Aditi> > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed> > have> > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without> > origin,> > > > as> > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold> > mine> > > > of> > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad> > gIta.> > > > .> > > > >> > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > prANadAsa> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > >> > the Bhaga> > > > > *Dear V).> > > > >> > >> > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless,> > otherwise> > > > the> > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u>> > > > >d"when weVinita jie> > > > we> > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa( destruction> > of> > > > > > mind)....> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > gopiGu> > > > > > *> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > "shankar_mamta"> > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > "but 'ncient_ithe mind" is also an imagination which comes> > through> > > > mind> > > > >anka only"> > > > > > >> > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > rue.>..inita> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > "gopi_b927"> > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i,> > > > the> > > > > > > > ego.> > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become> > free> > Mind of> > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta. //> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind" is also an> > imagination> > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > comes through mind only know?> > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > "shankar_mamta"> > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter> > how> > > > > > > much> > > > > > > > of> > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> > > > > >how> > > > > > >ha> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > >.....> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So> > long as> > > > we> > > > > is> > > are> > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with> > i,> > > > the> > > > > > > > ego.> > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes...> > fect us....and we become free> > > > of> > > > > > > > > karma...mukta.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans> > > > ego....> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> > > > > > > everything> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God...> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > vinita> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Regar >> > >nd best >shes,> > > n ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > "msbohra62"> > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind> > for> > > > so> > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > > years,is :-> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi- Devta" and getting> > > > desire> > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Muslims worship hiu worshh" they are also getting there desire> > > > > > > > result> > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > >> > > > > > > > differences> > > > > > > > > ?> > > > > > > > > >> > is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > > > > > > God> > > > > > > > ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > > > > > > "Param-Satta" (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or> > God> > > > > > > > created> > > > > > > > > Man ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to> > Astrology> > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_ astrology@ yaho> > >ps.com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > Manoj Chn> > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > > > > > > >onde> > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we> > recognize> > > > that> > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ji,> > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not> > recogni.....> > > > > > > > > > > r.> > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Love Cricket? 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Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Very true. Krishna can be obtained only by becoming a Radha or a Gopi. A lady can gain Hanumanjis grace easier than man because she has just to become motherlike (Anjana) to Hanumanji while a man has to do so much of (Or not to do) other things to become eligible for Hanumanjis Grace....... , chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv wrote: > > Search and he will help you find him. > If the yearning is there ... the road will appear. > Keep on searching. > I want to repeat a few words that Osho has said for this search ( not exact words or as comprehensive ). > > " Let your search for the truth be a feminine approach. As opposed to the masculine approach in science, wherin the subject of the search is disected, torn apart , nay destroyed so that you can understand the mystery and the mystery stands no more. > You will be happy and demystified but the subject will have to perish. > In your travel inward the mystery will depeen, but you will not be annoyed. You will not tear apart the subject of your search, you will not be annoyed. You will not be discouraged ....... " > > Keep on searching. > > > Chiranjiv Mehta > > > --- On Sat, 5/9/09, msbohra62 msbohra62 wrote: > > > msbohra62 msbohra62 > Re: Moksha... > > Saturday, 5 September, 2009, 10:46 AM Very sorry to say tha my have taken me wrongly and interprited my questions wrongly.These all not " Shartra-Virudha " at all,as you ahve mentioned. > > Do we know that Plant does not have the mind ?Than who control there all growth and activity to alive ? > > can we compare Mango with Parmtatva and it is not Shastra-Virudh act ? > > You are searching in papers,where you have said Granths are only roadmaps.But i am in search within us. > > Asking the questions are not arrogance and being non-humble with any one.If you feel it than i apologize for the same. > > I accept i have limited understanding for that reasons i have asked the these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh, losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma etc to stop me to arising the questions which have made you uneasy.I am not have the capacity to influence the youth of mass. > > I am searching the ultimate power (Ishawar,God) inside us and you are claiming it is exist in outer world,out side of us.It is the only difference. > > Pranam, > > M.S.Bohra > > e: > > > > One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is > > being discussed before we come to the conclusion. > > If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > > c > ent > ral nervous system ad so nno brain and no consciousness) ?ve no is just > > riicculuss, and is shasta-viruddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsakka anddthe > > nAsikyavvAdinss, the xistnce o. Ottheritthan te all dbbate and he > > nAstid > >as > di > ireche eitecee oaoayb ou sbbcribebl eee oooo thsh s hoolss. > > > > S > ee, et istlike tel telling thobse bse is no mango, onlanggo ste ite is > > the...u are deecribingbing the symptom, we are talking about the underlying > > phenomenon. The mind is an attribute of the soul, one of the faculties it > > uses, just like the senses. > > > > I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > aears > rs to > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > a of > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > > which you have progressed spiritually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight > > anger earl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > I > > > > In > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says " ahaMkArO > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a " : a,aignoi,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthinks the > > ae ti man " Thman rohe arroganti iganti ignoraat I > > > s > I > > > s > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo- academic pursuits.... ta med>treeed> rea, > > andize and digest the matter sharin shariatl or atlease one has to be > > humble in discusswith otwirs. It rs. It is because of such deon that > > ahlotuss > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > >ar hari > > > > hari smaraNs, > > prANa > > > > On Fri, > > i, ma. > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > , > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t " Param-Tatva " > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a Physical > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > t > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > >tiolhnoillulslityo happons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc D > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > na > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > h > > > > . > v hi > > > ev > e svva > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > h > .eihappeeratudav > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > re happet is also a stathe > am agyab.E > eey ree > isomhwn i > tha > it is > > > > > eate of mind > > >every, > > > > tra > > d > > > m > > > > > >he:o> > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c a to T > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve maximum > amucapasable e exten Th > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > >ant> J > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapao itdendnnn ones > anyaand -ngs > >r and r idual c > ,nt> > > octti > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln, ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > the > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > nctun > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > pa> in the b are > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > foY>urdca > mmencs ts atanishadanishad' s reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad. Youre > mporta lat er, w > whacr is > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahank aal that tha > e aderof ade cthechit > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > , > > > >f, > > > > ory, > > > ryory, > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid) . Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > at r > > > liports > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > tence ersta > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > roles > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > different > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in > > > him > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it > > > is > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > th > > > real> > th > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > > Physical > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > ga> > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly, as like > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > > Dhance of > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > Than whe > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > I celigion and > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > i > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf . > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com><a > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastr ologgroups. com>, > > > > > s s> > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > getting > > > > > > angry which > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate > > > God, y > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > > intellect, > > > > > we > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana > > > and > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe > > > our > > > > > seers > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > > > > this > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep > > > into > > > > > most > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > > shows a > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > > armchair > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > > statement > > > > > is > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > > words. > > > > > This > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > > particular) > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > > origin > > > > > of > > > > > > the Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > alizatio > > > > > father > > > ly when he > > > > > appear> > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > > child. > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to > > > Aditi > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed > > > have > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > > origin, > > > > > as > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold > > > mine > > > > > of > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > > gIta. > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > > otherwise > > > > > the > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > we > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa( destruction > > > of > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > > through > > > > > mind > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become > > > free > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta. // > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > imagination > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter > > > how > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > of > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > > long as > > > > > we > > > > > > is > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with > > > i, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > n ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind > > > for > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi- Devta " and getting > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or > > > God > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_ astrology@ yaho> > >ps.com > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > recognize > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. 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Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Bohraji,1) " Do we know plants dont have mind " - Please define what you mean by mind - maybe you are calling the Atma mind...then we have no problem. By textual definition, Mind (or manas) is the capacity of the brain ( main part of central nervous system), and biology is advanced enough to certify that 99% of plants do not have these....so please clarify. Therefore, read carefully - I said that if you feel plants do not have aatma, then that is shastra-viruddha, I can certify it. Referring to your earlier taunt about " digest " I can confidently say that I have analyzed what I have studied, and digesting what you ingest is not boasting - I did not claim to understand everything, I claimed to understand what I have the capacity to.. 2) If you are aware of Mundaka upanishad's world famous " dvaa suparNaa sayujaa sakhaayaa.. " you will not have said comparing paramAtma to birds or fruits is shastra viruddha. This is clearly the lack of study... 3) Your search within you can be fruitful - if you plan to explore there with the right understanding then Turiya (refer Mandukya purana) will guide you to the correct understanding, else - if you approach with the wrong understanding, then you will either be corrected (if you are blessed) or you will be encouraged (if you are not blessed), in the latter case, you will go deeper into maya and away from Godhead. Your questions have not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please remember that I was defending your asking questions in the beginning. But your style of writing comes across as bookish and arrogant, which is not conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:16 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: Very sorry to say tha my have taken me wrongly and interprited my questions wrongly.These all not " Shartra-Virudha " at all,as you ahve mentioned. Do we know that Plant does not have the mind ?Than who control there all growth and activity to alive ? can we compare Mango with Parmtatva and it is not Shastra-Virudh act ? You are searching in papers,where you have said Granths are only roadmaps.But i am in search within us. Asking the questions are not arrogance and being non-humble with any one.If you feel it than i apologize for the same. I accept i have limited understanding for that reasons i have asked the these questions here, before wise persons as like you. Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma etc to stop me to arising the questions which have made you uneasy.I am not have the capacity to influence the youth of mass. I am searching the ultimate power (Ishawar,God)inside us and you are claiming it is exist in outer world,out side of us.It is the only difference. Pranam, M.S.Bohra e: > > One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is > being discussed before we come to the conclusion. > If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > c ent ral nervous system ad so nno brain and no consciousness)?ve no is just > riicculuss, and is shasta-viruddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsakka anddthe nAsikyavvAdinss, the xistnce o. Ottheritthan te all dbbate and he > nAstid >as di ireche eitecee oaoayb ou sbbcribebl eee oooo thsh s hoolss. > S ee, et istlike tel telling thobse bse is no mango, onlanggo ste ite is > the...u are deecribingbing the symptom, we are talking about the underlying > phenomenon. The mind is an attribute of the soul, one of the faculties it > uses, just like the senses. > > I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > aears rs to to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > a of > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > which you have progressed spiritually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight > anger earl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > I > > In > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says " ahaMkArO > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a " : a,aignoi,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthinks the > ae ti man " Thman rohe arroganti iganti ignoraat I > s I > s > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-academic pursuits.... ta med>treeed> rea, > andize and digest the matter sharin shariatl or atlease one has to be > humble in discusswith otwirs. It rs. It is because of such deon that > ahlotuss lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. >ar hari > > hari smaraNs, > prANa > On Fri, i, ma. <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > , > > > 1:for : > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t " Param-Tatva " > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a Physical > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ t > > aham-Ta/ > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc D iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also na > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > k > hai artha hi > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > h > > .. v hi > > ev e svva anay ucyhei h v seudav > h ..eihappeeratudav > > ..e happeerat eashudes,ke si a alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > re happet is also a stathe am agyab.E eey ree isomhwn i tha it is > > > eate of mind >every, > > > tra > d > > m > > > >he:o> > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c a to T e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve maximum amucapasable e exten Th p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> >ant> J > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn ones anyaand -ngs >r and r idual c ,nt> > octti > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > the apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > nctun > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par pa> in the b are > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is foY>urdca mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad.Youre mporta lat er, w whacr is athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha e aderof ade cthechit as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > , > > >f, > > > ory, > > ryory, > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > at r > > liports > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > >foeaora. > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > tence ersta > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > roles > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > different > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in > > him > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it > > is > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > the " Gr > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > th > > real> > th > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > am-Tatva " > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > Physical > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > ga> > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > Dhance of > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > Than whe > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > >n undeess than any > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > I celigion and > > >nowledge which leads us to > > i > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf . > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40><a > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > s s> > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > > > Bohraji > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question > > which > > > > is > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > getting > > > > > angry which > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > this " ? > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate > > God, y > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > intellect, > > > > we > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana > > and > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > Bhakti....others > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe > > our > > > > seers > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > > > this > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep > > into > > > > most > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > shows a > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > armchair > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > statement > > > > is > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > words. > > > > This > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > particular) > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > origin > > > > of > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > alizatio > > > > father > > ly when he > > > > appear> > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > child. > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to > > Aditi > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed > > have > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > origin, > > > > as > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold > > mine > > > > of > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > gIta. > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > otherwise > > > > the > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > we > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa(destruction > > of > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > * > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40>, > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > through > > > > mind > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40>, > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > > > the > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become > > free > > Mind of > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > imagination > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40>, > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter > > how > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > of > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > >how > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > long as > > > > we > > > > > is > > > are > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with > > i, > > > > the > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > fect us....and we become free > > > > of > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > >nd best >shes, > > > n <%40> > > <%40>, > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind > > for > > > > so > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or > > God > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > <%40>, > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > recognize > > > > that > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Paranadasa ji, It was very clear to me after reading your last message, that it is the right time to close the topic because you are taking debate personally.I asked the questions and you inspite to give the proper reply,you have turned the table to other direction with personal attack. Anyway,Now I am not interested to discuss further on this topic.I would close it with one quotation of Buddha which was given by a very senior KP Astrologer recently, // " Do not to believe anything he said just out of respect for him. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. " -Lord Buddha// Pranam to you, M.S.Bohra wrote: > > Bohraji, > 1) " Do we know plants dont have mind " - Please define what you mean ) " Do w > - maybe you are calling d " Atma mind...then we have no problem. By textual > definition, Mind (or manas) is ten wapacity of the brain ( main part of > c entral nervous system), and bapaciy is advanced enough to cetify thhat 99% > of plants do not have these....so please clarify. Therefore, read carefully > - I said that if you feel plants do not have aatma, then that is > s hastra-virddha,, can ceetify it.. Rferrinn to yourr earlir tas >> sbout > " digst " " I can cceftif itt.sa thatt hae aannalyzed wat I havve studied, and > dgesting wwhat you ingest is not boasting - I did not claim to understand > everything, I claimed to understand what I have the capacity to.. > > 2) If you are aware of Mundaka upanishad's worl famouss " dvaa suparNaa > ayujaa akhahyaa.a " yyou ull n tthave sasaidfamour rdvaa supupamto b bidsr skhua aa.. " . hastwstl no ave se sai iis cearlhhe lackack ouudy... ... > >ru is seasch witwin yn you be fcleclearly thack pk plan to exlore theer w > wihe rightight understandingn TuriTa (ref(refer Mandukya purana will guide >yo tte cte corrrunderstarding, ng, else - if you apprillwh the w e w you to yu to h corouu >l be bcouraguraged (if ou arrt not ble), in in the latter case, you wio dee deeper into maya and away from Godhead. > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. But > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot > con > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. > > hari smaraNs, > prANadsa > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62 wrote: > > > > Very s y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me. >neo w kno tkn knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot " Shd act gand actid totivity ? > ca> ? > ca> > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > ea> >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > >ki > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with any one.If > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> > >me. > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > these > these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou uneasy.I am not > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop me> to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and youclaimi g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only > > difference. > > > > Pranam, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > e: > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and also what > > iing di cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > > >> > > > ent > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is just ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak> anddthe > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > nAs . > > > nAsa. >> > ireche eihe > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan all dbb> S >nd he > > i nAstidtel telling> di > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl ee> > to thsh are deecribing> > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling hobse dselis no mang , oelangno stThete is is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > >> p > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have disappointed > > me > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > > > aears > > rs to > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > > a of > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > > > which yog -, it rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's > > slight > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > > I > > > > > > In > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says > > " ahaMkArO > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthly in Kris > >says t I > > > > > s > > I > > > > > s > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed> > > > ae ti ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I or atlease one> I > o > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that > > > ahlotuss > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > > >ar hari > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANa > > > > > > > On Fri, > > > > i, ma. > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a > > Physical > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > t > > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc > > D > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > na > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > > h > > > > > > . > > v hi > > > > ev > > e svva > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > > h > > .eihappeeratudav > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > re happet is also a stathe > > am agyab.E > > eey ree > > isomhwn i > > tha > > it is > > > > > > > eate of mind > > > > >every, > > > > > tra > > > d > > > > m > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c > > a to T > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve > > maximum > > amucapasable e exten Th > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > > >ant> J > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn > > ones > > anyaand -ngs > > >r and r idual c > > ,nt> > > > octti > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > > the > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > > nctun > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > > > pa> in the b are > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > > foY>urdca > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad.Youre > > mporta lat er, w > > whacr is > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha > > e aderof ade cthechit > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > > > > , > > > > >f, > > > > > ory, > > > > ryory, > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > > at r > > > > liports > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > > tence ersta > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a > > brofrienda > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > > different > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband > > in > > > > him > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example > > of > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to > > be. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for > > it > > > > is > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > th > > > > real> > th > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > > > Physical > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > ga> > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they > > worship > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > > > Dhance of > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > > I celigion and > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > i > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40><a > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > > > s s> > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is > > bad - > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical > > question > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > angry which > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the > > servate > > > > God, y > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different > > spiritual > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > > > intellect, > > > > > > we > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of > > sadhana > > > > and > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat > > maybe > > > > our > > > > > > seers > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these > > questions - > > > > > > this > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go > > deep > > > > into > > > > > > most > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > > > shows a > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > > > armchair > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > > > statement > > > > > > is > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > > > words. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > > > particular) > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > > > origin > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > > alizatio > > > > > > father > > > > ly when he > > > > > > appear> > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > > > child. > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana > > to > > > > Aditi > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees > > indeed > > > > have > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > > > origin, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic > > gold > > > > mine > > > > > > of > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > > > gIta. > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > > > otherwise > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > ofmindonasa(destruction > > > > of > > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > > > through > > > > > > mind > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of > > THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self > > with i, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we > > become > > > > free > > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > > imagination > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no > > matter > > > > how > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > > > long as > > > > > > we > > > > > > > is > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self > > with > > > > i, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans > > maya...sans > > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, > > shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / > > TAT, > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > > n <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y > > mind > > > > for > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and > > getting > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God > > or > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > > recognize > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Bohraji,That was a great quote, similar to the one from Chandogya upanishat : yadEva vidyayA karOti, shraddhayA upanishadA, tadEva vIryavattaram bhavati : only that which we do after analyzing, with dedication, firm belief and according to the shastras, only that will be fruitful " . Hinduism in one of the few religions in the worlds where blind acceptance is strongly discouraged. I regret that I hurt your feelings, I truly do..it is just that emails are not good in showing tones and moods of people. We have to rely on understanding the words that the email contains - communicating using different words shows the different mindsets, and I merely said what was my analysis of your emails. It may entirely be possible that I am just an idiotic upstart who does not understand the greatness of your spiritual growth...only paramAtma knows. When children fight on who loves and understands the mother the most, the mother - though angry - feels secretly happy about the love the children are displaying....so I know in my heart of hearts that ParamAtma will forgive me for this - i hope you forgive me too. hari smaraNs,prANadAsa.On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: Dear Paranadasa ji, It was very clear to me after reading your last message, that it is the right time to close the topic because you are taking debate personally.I asked the questions and you inspite to give the proper reply,you have turned the table to other direction with personal attack. Anyway,Now I am not interested to discuss further on this topic.I would close it with one quotation of Buddha which was given by a very senior KP Astrologer recently, // " Do not to believe anything he said just out of respect for him. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. " -Lord Buddha// Pranam to you, M.S.Bohra wrote: > > Bohraji, > 1) " Do we know plants dont have mind " - Please define what you mean ) " Do w > - maybe you are calling d " Atma mind...then we have no problem. By textual > definition, Mind (or manas) is ten wapacity of the brain ( main part of > c entral nervous system), and bapaciy is advanced enough to cetify thhat 99% > of plants do not have these....so please clarify. Therefore, read carefully > - I said that if you feel plants do not have aatma, then that is > s hastra-virddha,, can ceetify it.. Rferrinn to yourr earlir tas >> sbout > " digst " " I can cceftif itt.sa thatt hae aannalyzed wat I havve studied, and > dgesting wwhat you ingest is not boasting - I did not claim to understand > everything, I claimed to understand what I have the capacity to.. > > 2) If you are aware of Mundaka upanishad's worl famouss " dvaa suparNaa > ayujaa akhahyaa.a " yyou ull n tthave sasaidfamour rdvaa supupamto b bidsr skhua aa.. " . hastwstl no ave se sai iis cearlhhe lackack ouudy... ... > >ru is seasch witwin yn you be fcleclearly thack pk plan to exlore theer w > wihe rightight understandingn TuriTa (ref(refer Mandukya purana will guide >yo tte cte corrrunderstarding, ng, else - if you apprillwh the w e w you to yu to h corouu >l be bcouraguraged (if ou arrt not ble), in in the latter case, you wio dee deeper into maya and away from Godhead. > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. But > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot > con > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. > > hari smaraNs, > prANadsa > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62 wrote: > > > > Very s y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me. >neo w kno tkn knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot " Shd act gand actid totivity ? > ca> ? > ca> > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > ea> >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > >ki > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with any one.If > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> > >me. > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > these > these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou uneasy.I am not > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop me> to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and youclaimi g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only > > difference. > > > > Pranam, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > e: > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and also what > > iing di cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > > >> > > > ent > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is just ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak> anddthe > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > nAs . > > > nAsa. >> > ireche eihe > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan all dbb> S >nd he > > i nAstidtel telling> di > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl ee> > to thsh are deecribing> > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling hobse dselis no mang , oelangno stThete is is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > >> p > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have disappointed > > me > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > > > aears > > rs to > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > > a of > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > > > which yog -, it rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's > > slight > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > > I > > > > > > In > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says > > " ahaMkArO > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthly in Kris > >says t I > > > > > s > > I > > > > > s > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed> > > > ae ti ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I or atlease one> I > o > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that > > > ahlotuss > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > > >ar hari > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANa > > > > > > > On Fri, > > > > i, ma. > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a > > Physical > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > t > > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc > > D > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > na > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > > h > > > > > > . > > v hi > > > > ev > > e svva > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > > h > > .eihappeeratudav > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > re happet is also a stathe > > am agyab.E > > eey ree > > isomhwn i > > tha > > it is > > > > > > > eate of mind > > > > >every, > > > > > tra > > > d > > > > m > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c > > a to T > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve > > maximum > > amucapasable e exten Th > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > > >ant> J > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn > > ones > > anyaand -ngs > > >r and r idual c > > ,nt> > > > octti > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > > the > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > > nctun > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > > > pa> in the b are > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > > foY>urdca > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad.Youre > > mporta lat er, w > > whacr is > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha > > e aderof ade cthechit > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > > > > , > > > > >f, > > > > > ory, > > > > ryory, > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > > at r > > > > liports > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > > tence ersta > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a > > brofrienda > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > > different > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband > > in > > > > him > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example > > of > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to > > be. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for > > it > > > > is > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > th > > > > real> > th > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > > > Physical > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > ga> > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they > > worship > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > > > Dhance of > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > > I celigion and > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > i > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40><a > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > > > s s> > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is > > bad - > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical > > question > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > angry which > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the > > servate > > > > God, y > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different > > spiritual > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > > > intellect, > > > > > > we > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of > > sadhana > > > > and > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat > > maybe > > > > our > > > > > > seers > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these > > questions - > > > > > > this > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go > > deep > > > > into > > > > > > most > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > > > shows a > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > > > armchair > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > > > statement > > > > > > is > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > > > words. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > > > particular) > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > > > origin > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > > alizatio > > > > > > father > > > > ly when he > > > > > > appear> > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > > > child. > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana > > to > > > > Aditi > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees > > indeed > > > > have > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > > > origin, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic > > gold > > > > mine > > > > > > of > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > > > gIta. > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > > > otherwise > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > ofmindonasa(destruction > > > > of > > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > > > through > > > > > > mind > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of > > THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self > > with i, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we > > become > > > > free > > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > > imagination > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no > > matter > > > > how > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > > > long as > > > > > > we > > > > > > > is > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self > > with > > > > i, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans > > maya...sans > > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, > > shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / > > TAT, > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > > n <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y > > mind > > > > for > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and > > getting > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God > > or > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > > recognize > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Mehta ji, Thanks for your good mail,if we can dissolve our " Ahankar " than we are able to understand the ultimate truth. //Pothi pad-pad pandit bhava,murakh bhaya na koi, Dhai akhar prem ka pade so pandit hoe// M.S.Bohra ote: > > Search and he will help you find him. > If theiv mehta vchirere ... the road will appear. > Keep on searching. > I want to repeat a few words that Osho has said for this search ( not exact words or as comprehensive ). > > " Let your search fd fohe truth be a feminine approach. As opposed to the masculine approach in science, wherin the subject of the search is disected, torn apart , nay destroyed so that you can understaject o mystery and the mystery stand apart ,e. > You will be happy and demystified but the subject will have to perish. > In your travel inward the mystery will depeen, but you will not be annoyed. You will not tear apart the subject of your search, you will nwill nannoyed. You will not be discouraged ....... " > > Keep on searching. > > > Chiranjiv Mehta > > > --- On Sat, 5/9/09, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: > > > msbohra62 <ms > --- On.Sat, [ancient_indian_astrol> wrote: Moksha... > @ Subject:ps.com > Saturday, 5 Sep: Moksha... > ancien > an_ast > > > Very sorry to say tha my have taken me wrongly and interprited my questions wrongly.These all not " Shartra-Virudha " at all,as you ahve rprtioned. > > Do we know that Pe all not " ot have the mind ?Than who control thentione . > > and activity to Plane ? > > can we compare Mango with Parmtatva and it is not Shastra-Virudh act ? > > You are searching in papers,where you have said Granths are only roadmat ? > > am in search wing in p. pers,w Asking the questions are not arrogance and being non-humble h withiy one.If y Asking it than i apologize for the same. > > I accept i have limited understanding for that reasons i have asked the these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh, losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma etc to stop me to arising the questions which have made you uneasy.I n-Dharmh eec to stpp me tto influence the ytions w ich ha > > I am searching the ultimate power (Ishawar,God) inside us and you are claiming it is exist in outer world,out side of us.It is the only difference. > > Pranam, > xist inBohra > > e: > > > > One needs to understand what is being said before and after and also what is > > being disnderst before we come to the conclusion. > > If the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > > c > ent > ral nervous system ad so nno brain and no consciousness) ?ve no is just > > riicculuss, and is shasta-vo brahaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsa?ve andis e > > nAsikyavvAdinssnd he xistnce o. Ottheritthan te thl dbbate and he >the > > n > >as > dinss, the xistnec o. atthb ou han te all dbbate o thsh s > nAstid > >as > >> irech , etecee oaoayblouellinribeblse bse is no h s ho onlanggo s > ite > ee, et istl.ke teldtecling thobs bs is to mawe , onlalking about the undethyi.. are denomenon. The the syspto attribute of ing abou, the un the faculties it > >on. The mind ike the senses. > > > > I am sorry to say that the explanations you have given have disappointed me > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > aears > rs to > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > a of > > showcasing your talent, you havited undome of us understand t of >vel to > > which you have progreavedmaderitually. I now understand Bhaskarji's slight > > anger earl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > I > > > > In > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in Krishns > > In >s " ahaMkArO > > vimUaham - he quote: a cilea,aignoi,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthinks the > > ae ti man " Thma: a,ai arroganti iganti ignoraat hinkinthinks > > > s ae ti ma > s an rohe rroganseo- I sudo-acraat Ia> > >c pu I > >. > s > > g zeo-oI> rea, > >dondize andacadesic persuits...h ta meh>treeed>r atlease one has to be > > humble inr ssarsn sth oatl sr atles. It is because of such deon t discu >witahlotuss. It nAtrma. > >ar hari > > > > hari smaraNs, > > prANa > > > > On Fri, > > i, ma. > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > , > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t " Param-Tatva " > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a Physical > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > t > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > >tiolhnoillulslityo happons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc D > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > na > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > h > > > > . > v hi > > > ev > e svva > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > h > .eihappeeratudav > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > re happet is also a stathe > am agyab.E > eey ree > isomhwn i > tha > it is > > > > > eate of mind > > >every, > > > > tra > > d > > > m > > > > > >he:o> > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c a to T > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve maximum > amucapasable e exten Th > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > >ant> J > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapao itdendnnn ones > anyaand -ngs > >r and r idual c > ,nt> > > octti > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln, ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > the > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > nctun > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > pa> in the b are > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > foY>urdca > mmencs ts atanishadanishad' s reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad. Youre > mporta lat er, w > whacr is > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahank aal that tha > e aderof ade cthechit > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > , > > > >f, > > > > ory, > > > ryory, > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid) . Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > at r > > > liports > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > tence ersta > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a brofrienda > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > roles > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > different > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband in > > > him > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example of > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to be. > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for it > > > is > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > th > > > real> > th > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > > Physical > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > ga> > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly, as like > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they worship > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > > Dhance of > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > Than whe > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > I celigion and > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > i > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a religigf .. > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com><a > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastr ologgroups. com>, > > > > > s s> > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > getting > > > > > > angry which > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the servate > > > God, y > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > > intellect, > > > > > we > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of sadhana > > > and > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat maybe > > > our > > > > > seers > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these questions - > > > > > this > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep > > > into > > > > > most > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > > shows a > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > > armchair > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > > statement > > > > > is > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > > words. > > > > > This > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > > particular) > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > > origin > > > > > of > > > > > > the Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > alizatio > > > > > father > > > ly when he > > > > > appear> > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > > child. > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to > > > Aditi > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed > > > have > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > > origin, > > > > > as > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold > > > mine > > > > > of > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > > gIta. > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > > otherwise > > > > > the > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > we > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke ofmindonasa( destruction > > > of > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > > through > > > > > mind > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self with i, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become > > > free > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta. // > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > imagination > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter > > > how > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > of > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > > long as > > > > > we > > > > > > is > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with > > > i, > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > n ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y mind > > > for > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi- Devta " and getting > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or > > > God > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_ astrology@ yaho> > >ps.com > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>, > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > recognize > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. 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Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 // " Do not to believe anything he said just out of respect for him. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after bservation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. " -Lord Buddha// I think this way of thinking is given by strong saturn in the chart. [saturnine way of thinking] Just a thought! Regards, Vijay Goel Jaipur. , " msbohra62 " <msbohra62 wrote: > > Dear Paranadasa ji, > > It was very clear to me after reading your last message, that it is the right time to close the topic because you are taking debate personally.I asked the questions and you inspite to give the proper reply,you have turned the table to other direction with personal attack. > > Anyway,Now I am not interested to discuss further on this topic.I would close it with one quotation of Buddha which was given by a very senior KP Astrologer recently, > > // " Do not to believe anything he said just out of respect for him. Do not believe > in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply > because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply > because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything > merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in > traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after > observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is > conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to > it. " > -Lord Buddha// > > Pranam to you, > > M.S.Bohra > wrote: > > > > Bohraji, > > 1) " Do we know plants dont have mind " - Please define what you mean ) " Do w > > - maybe you are calling d " Atma mind...then we have no problem. By textual > > definition, Mind (or manas) is ten wapacity of the brain ( main part of > > c > entral nervous system), and bapaciy is advanced enough to cetify thhat 99% > > of plants do not have these....so please clarify. Therefore, read carefully > > - I said that if you feel plants do not have aatma, then that is > > s > hastra-virddha,, can ceetify it.. Rferrinn to yourr earlir tas > >> sbout > > " digst " " I can cceftif itt.sa thatt hae aannalyzed wat I havve studied, and > > dgesting wwhat you ingest is not boasting - I did not claim to understand > > everything, I claimed to understand what I have the capacity to.. > > > > 2) If you are aware of Mundaka upanishad's worl famouss " dvaa suparNaa > > > ayujaa akhahyaa.a " yyou ull n tthave sasaidfamour rdvaa supupamto b bidsr > > skhua > aa.. " . hastwstl no ave se sai iis cearlhhe lackack ouudy... > .. > > > >ru is seasch witwin yn you be fcleclearly thack pk plan to exlore theer w > > wihe rightight understandingn TuriTa (ref(refer Mandukya purana will guide > >yo tte cte corrrunderstarding, ng, else - if you apprillwh the w e w you to > yu to h corouu > >l be bcouraguraged (if ou arrt not ble), in in the latter case, you wio > dee > deeper into maya and away from Godhead. > > > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please > > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. But > > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot > > con > > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. > > > > hari smaraNs, > > prANadsa > > > > > > > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Very s > y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa > > > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron > e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me. > >neo w > kno > tkn > knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot " Shd act > gand actid totivity ? > > ca> > ? > > ca> > > > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > > > ea> > >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only > > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > > > >ki > > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with any one.If > > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> > > >me. > > > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > > these > > these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in Sanatan-Dharma > > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou uneasy.I am not > > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop > me> > to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and youclaimi > g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only > > > difference. > > > > > > Pranam, > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > e: > > > > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and also what > > > iing di > cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. > >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have no > > > >> > > > > ent > > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is just > ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak> > anddthe > > > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > > nAs . > > > > > nAsa. > >> > ireche eihe > > > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan > > all > dbb> S > >nd he > > > i nAstidtel telling> di > > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl > ee> > to thsh are deecribing> > > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling > hobse dselis no mang > , oelangno stThete is > is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it > talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > > >> p > > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have disappointed > > > me > > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to this, > > > > aears > > > rs to > > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > > > a of > > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level to > > > > which yog -, it > rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's > > > slight > > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > > > I > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says > > > " ahaMkArO > > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthly in Kris > > >says > t I > > > > > > > s > > > I > > > > > > > s > > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed> > > > > ae ti > ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I > or atlease one> I > > o > > > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that > > > > ahlotuss > > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > > > >ar hari > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > prANa > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, > > > > > > i, ma. > > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where you > > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t > > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a > > > Physical > > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > > t > > > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef ouc > > > D > > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > > na > > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > > > h > > > > > > > > . > > > v hi > > > > > ev > > > e svva > > > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > > > h > > > .eihappeeratudav > > > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > > re happet is also a stathe > > > am agyab.E > > > eey ree > > > isomhwn i > > > tha > > > it is > > > > > > > > > eate of mind > > > > > > >every, > > > > > > tra > > > > d > > > > > m > > > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no one c > > > a to T > > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve > > > maximum > > > amucapasable e exten Th > > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > > > >ant> J > > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn > > > ones > > > anyaand -ngs > > > >r and r idual c > > > ,nt> > > > > octti > > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > > > the > > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > > > nctun > > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > > > > > pa> in the b are > > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > > > foY>urdca > > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he formGodhyad.Youre > > > mporta lat er, w > > > whacr is > > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha > > > e aderof ade cthechit > > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > >f, > > > > > > ory, > > > > > ryory, > > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > > > at r > > > > > liports > > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > > > tence ersta > > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a > > > brofrienda > > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > > > different > > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a husband > > > in > > > > > him > > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an example > > > of > > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with Krishna > > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him to > > > be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - for > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > > th > > > > > real> > th > > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is not a > > > > > Physical > > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > > ga> > > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they > > > worship > > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes thefor > > > > > Dhance of > > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > > > I celigion and > > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > > i > > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a > > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > > <%40><a > > > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > > > > s s> > > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is > > > bad - > > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical > > > question > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > angry which > > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the > > > servate > > > > > God, y > > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our > > > > > intellect, > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of > > > sadhana > > > > > and > > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat > > > maybe > > > > > our > > > > > > > seers > > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these > > > questions - > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical > > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go > > > deep > > > > > into > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly > > > > > shows a > > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an > > > > > armchair > > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's > > > > > statement > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into > > > > > words. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in > > > > > > > particular) > > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no > > > > > origin > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > > > alizatio > > > > > > > father > > > > > ly when he > > > > > > > appear> > > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and > > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name the > > > > > child. > > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana > > > to > > > > > Aditi > > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees > > > indeed > > > > > have > > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without > > > > > origin, > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic > > > gold > > > > > mine > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he Bhagawad > > > > > gIta. > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > > ofmindonasa(destruction > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which comes > > > > > through > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of > > > THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self > > > with i, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we > > > become > > > > > free > > > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > > > imagination > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no > > > matter > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma ceases. So > > > > > long as > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self > > > with > > > > > i, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans > > > maya...sans > > > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, > > > shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / > > > TAT, > > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > > > n <%40.\ com> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest questioohra62y > > > mind > > > > > for > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and > > > getting > > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God > > > or > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > > > recognize > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 5, 2009 Dear Pranadas ji, Bohra ji is a nice man, and which is why I left communicating with him directly in this thread, because I did not wish to hurt him. In fact most of us are nice, so please do not worry about anyone being offended. Those who get offended also reply a little harshly to those who offended them, and then again feel sad that why did they do so. So the account is cleared on all sides. We are all brothers of the same fraternity hence please feel free . Even I must have offended dear Bohraji or anybody, and apologise for the same. At least due to him we were able to talk for some time on God and Moksha and had some satsanga in this great forum. Many other members too joined in, making it a worthwhile discussions for all. I learnt something many many years back. Those who ask questions in an assembly risk looking stupid due to their queries, but they do a great service to the silent audience, because due to their query some discussions are ensued and this discussion may answer the many other various queries of the members of the audience who are silent. Bohraji has done a great service thus to all members, I believe. best wishes, Bhaskar. , s s <freemorons wrote:>> Dear Bohraji,> That was a great quote, similar to the one from Chandogya upanishat : yadEva> vidyayA karOti, shraddhayA upanishadA, tadEva vIryavattaram bhavati : only> that which we do after analyzing, with dedication, firm belief and *according> to the shastras*, only that will be fruitful". Hinduism in one of the few> religions in the worlds where blind acceptance is strongly discouraged.> > I regret that I hurt your feelings, I truly do..it is just that emails are> not good in showing tones and moods of people. We have to rely on> understanding the words that the email contains - communicating using> different words shows the different mindsets, and I merely said what was my> analysis of your emails. It may entirely be possible that I am just an> idiotic upstart who does not understand the greatness of your spiritual> growth...only paramAtma knows.> > When children fight on who loves and understands the mother the most, the> mother - though angry - feels secretly happy about the love the children are> displaying....so I know in my heart of hearts that ParamAtma will forgive me> for this - i hope you forgive me too.> > hari smaraNs,> prANadAsa.> > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM, msbohra62 msbohra62 wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Paranadasa ji,> >> > It was very clear to me after reading your last message, that it is the> > right time to close the topic because you are taking debate personally.I> > asked the questions and you inspite to give the proper reply,you have turned> > the table to other direction with personal attack.> >> > Anyway,Now I am not interested to discuss further on this topic.I would> > close it with one quotation of Buddha which was given by a very senior KP> > Astrologer recently,> >> > //"Do not to believe anything he said just out of respect for him. Do not> > believe> > in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything> > simply> > because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply> > because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in> > anything> > merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in> > traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But> > after> > observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason> > and is> > conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live> > up to> > it."> > -Lord Buddha//> >> > Pranam to you,> >> > M.S.Bohra> >> > wrote:> > >> > > Bohraji,> > > 1) "Do we know plants dont have mind" - Please define what you mean ) "Do> > w> > > - maybe you are calling d" Atma mind...then we have no problem. By> > textual> > > definition, Mind (or manas) is ten wapacity of the brain ( main part of> > > c> > entral nervous system), and bapaciy is advanced enough to cetify thhat 99%> >> > > of plants do not have these....so please clarify. Therefore, read> > carefully> > > - I said that if you feel plants do not have aatma, then that is> > > s> > hastra-virddha,, can ceetify it.. Rferrinn to yourr earlir tas> > >> sbout> > > "digst"" I can cceftif itt.sa thatt hae aannalyzed wat I havve studied,> > and> > > dgesting wwhat you ingest is not boasting - I did not claim to understand> > > everything, I claimed to understand what I have the capacity to..> > >> > > 2) If you are aware of Mundaka upanishad's worl famouss"dvaa suparNaa> > >> > ayujaa akhahyaa.a" yyou ull n tthave sasaidfamour rdvaa supupamto b bidsr> >> > skhua> > aa..". hastwstl no ave se sai iis cearlhhe lackack ouudy...> > ..> > >> > >ru is seasch witwin yn you be fcleclearly thack pk plan to exlore theer w> > > wihe rightight understandingn TuriTa (ref(refer Mandukya purana will> > guide> > >yo tte cte corrrunderstarding, ng, else - if you apprillwh the w e w you> > to> > yu to h corouu> > >l be bcouraguraged (if ou arrt not ble), in in the latter case, you wio> > dee> > deeper into maya and away from Godhead.> > >> > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please> > > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. But> > > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot> > > con> > > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu.> > >> > > hari smaraNs,> > > prANadsa> > >> > >> >> > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msbohmsbohra62@ wrote:> >> > >> > >> > > > Very s> > y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa> > >> > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron> > e anglye alsha "ShSha "Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me.> > >neo w> > kno> > tkn> > knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot "Shd> > act> > gand actid totivity ?> > > ca>> > ?> > > ca>> > >> > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh >> > > >> > ea>> > >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only> > > > roadm am in se am in search wit> >> > > >> > >ki> > > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with any> > one.If> > > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> >> > >me.> > > >> > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a> > > > these> > > these questions here, before wise persons as like you.> > > >> > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in> > Sanatan-Dharma> > > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou uneasy.I am> > not> > > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop> > me>> > to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and youclaimi> > g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only> > > > difference.> > > >> > > > Pranam,> > > >> > > > M.S.Bohra> > > >> > > > e:> > > >> > > > >> > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and also> > what> > > > iing di> > cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion.> > >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have> > no> > > > >> >> > > > ent> > > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is just> > ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak>> > anddthe> > > >> > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als,> > > > > nAs .> > > >> > > nAsa.> > >> > ireche eihe> >> > > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan> >> > all> > dbb> S> > >nd he> > > > i nAstidtel telling> di> > > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl> > ee> > to thsh are deecribing> >> > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling> > hobse dselis no mang> > , oelangno stThete is> > is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it> > talkinu ab, just like thderlying.> > > >> p> > > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have> > disappointed> > > > me> > > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to> > this, >> > > > aears> > > > rs to> > > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it> > > > > a of> > > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level> > to> > > > > which yog -, it> > rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's> > > > slight> > > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id>> > > > > I> > > > >> > > > > In> > > >> > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says> > > > "ahaMkArO> > > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthly> > in Kris> > > >says> > t I> > > > >> > > > s> > > > I> > > > >> > > > s> > > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed>> > > > > ae ti> > ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I> > or atlease one> I> > > o >> > > >> > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that> >> > > > > ahlotuss> > > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma.> > > > >ar hari> > > > >> > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > prANa> > > > >> > > >> > > > On Fri,> > > >> > > > i, ma.> > > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb>> > > >> > > > > >> > > > ,> > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > 1:for :> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you> > > > > >> > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where> > you> > > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t> > > > "Param-Tatva"> > > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a> > > > Physical> > > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/> > > > t >> > > > > aham-Ta/> > > > > >> > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> >> > > > >ana"ithouc "Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull> > > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef> > ouc> > > > D> > > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also> > > > na> > > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad.> > > > > >> > > > k > hai artha hi> > > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai> > > > > > h> > > > > >> > > > .> > > > v hi> > > > > > ev> > > > e svva> > > >> > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav> > > > > h> > > > .eihappeeratudav> > > > > >> > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a> > > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim"> > > > > re happet is also a stathe> > > > am agyab.E> > > > eey ree> > > > isomhwn i> > > > tha> > > > it is> > > > >> > > > > > eate of mind> > > >> > > > >every,> > > > > > > tra> > > > > d> > > > > > m> > > > > >> > > > > >he:o> > >> > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the> > > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no> > one c> > > > a to T> > > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve> > > > maximum> > > > amucapasable e exten Th> > > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e> > > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat>> > > > >ant> J> > > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio> > ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn> > > > ones> > > > anyaand -ngs> > > > >r and r idual c> > > > ,nt>> > > > > octti> > > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara> > > > > the> > > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf> > > > > > nctun> > > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par> > > >> > > > pa> in the b are> > > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is> > > > foY>urdca> > > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he> > formGodhyad.Youre> > > > mporta lat er, w> > > > whacr is> > > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha> > > > e aderof ade cthechit> > > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf,> > > >> > > > > > > ,> > > > > > >f,> > > > > > > ory,> > > > > > ryory,> > > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s> > > > > > at r> > > > > > liports> > > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or> > > > > > >foeaora.> > > > > > >> > > > > > ha.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ha.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout "where istenee of> > > > > > tence ersta> > > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a> > > > brofrienda> > > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le> > > > > > > roles> > > > > >> > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing> > > > > > different> > > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a> > husband> > > > in> > > > > > him> > > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an> > example> > > > of> > > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with> > Krishna> > > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him> > to> > > > be.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity -> > for> > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a> > bit.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > > > prANadAsa> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >n evepen> > > > > >> > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep> > > > > >> > > > > > On009 at 11> > > > > >> > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > question is in my mind, which i> > > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu> > > > > > > > the "Gr> > > > > > > > the "Granth" to read and understand ?> > > > > > > > th> > > > > > real> > th> > > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you> > > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of "> > > > > > > am-Tatva"> > > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is> > not a> > > > > > Physical> > > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl >> > > > > > > h Diff> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ?> > > > > > ga>> > > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like> > > > > > > >an howShakti" l seeehim ?hip "Devi" roop,for Budhi-chaturay they> > > > worship> > > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship "Laximimata".Than > "Ganes> > thefor> > > > > > Dhance of> > > > > > > > alp "Lese Lmata"> > > > > > Than whe> > > > > >> > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i"Laxiaimata".T> > > > > > > >n undeess than any> > > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi >> > > > > > > > I celigion and> > > > > > >nowledge which leads us to> > > > > > i >> > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to "Param-Gyan" (Uer det a> > > > religigf .> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > eing to> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40><a> > > >> > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>,> > > > > > > > s s>> > > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question> > is> > > > bad -> > > > > > > > Bohraji> > > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical> > > > question> > > > > > which> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis> > > > > > > > ds - so why are we> > > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > > angry which> > > > > > >ing "no no, man did not create God, you should believe> > > > > > > > this"?> > > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the> > > > servate> > > > > > God, y> > > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different> > > > spiritual> > > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with> > our> > > > > > intellect,> > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of> > > > sadhana> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of> > > > > > Bhakti....others> > > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope).> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat> > > > maybe> > > > > > our> > > > > > > > seers> > > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these> > > > questions -> > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of> > philosophical> > > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go> > > > deep> > > > > > into> > > > > > > > most> > > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This> > clearly> > > > > > shows a> > > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" -> > an> > > > > > armchair> > > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this> > person's> > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put> > into> > > > > > words.> > > > > > > > This> > > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U.> > in> > > > > > > > particular)> > > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is> > no> > > > > > origin> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves> > > > > > alizatio> > > > > > > > father> > > > > > ly when he> > > > > > > > appear> >> > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness> > and> > > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name> > the> > > > > > child.> > > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did> > Vamana> > > > to> > > > > > Aditi> > > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees> > > > indeed> > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one> > without> > > > > > origin,> > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a> > fantastic> > > > gold> > > > > > mine> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he> > Bhagawad> > > > > > gIta.> > > > > > > > .> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > > > > > prANadAsa> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@>> > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > the Bhaga> > > > > > > > > *Dear V).> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be> > mindless,> > > > > > otherwise> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u>> > > > > > > > >d"when weVinita jie> > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke> > > > ofmindonasa(destruction> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > mind)....> > > > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > > > gopiGu> > > > > > > > > > *> > > > > > > > > > <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > > > > > "shankar_mamta"> > > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "but 'ncient_ithe mind" is also an imagination which> > comes> > > > > > through> > > > > > > > mind> > > > > > > > >anka only"> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of> > > > THAT.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rue.>..inita> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > > > > > "gopi_b927"> > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self> > > > with i,> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > ego.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we> > > > become> > > > > > free> > > > > > Mind of> > > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.//> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind" is also an> > > > > > imagination> > > > > > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know?> > > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > > > > > "shankar_mamta"> > > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no> > > > matter> > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > much> > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where> > is> > > > > > > > > >how> > > > > > > > > > >ha> > > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > >.....> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma> > ceases. So> > > > > > long as> > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the> > self> > > > with> > > > > > i,> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > ego.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes...> > > > > > fect us....and we become free> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans> > > > maya...sans> > > > > > > > ego....> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham,> > > > shivoham!> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT /> > > > TAT,> > > > > > > > > > > everything> > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God...> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regar >> > > > > > >nd best >shes,> > > > > > > n <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > > > > > "msbohra62"> > > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest> > questioohra62y> > > > mind> > > > > > for> > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi-Devta" and> > > > getting> > > > > > > > desire> > > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh" they are also getting there desire> > > > > > > > > > > > result> > > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire> > result.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what> > are >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > differences> > > > > > > > > > > > > ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > > > > > > > > > > God> > > > > > > > > > > > ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the> > God> > > > or> > > > > > God> > > > > > > > > > > > created> > > > > > > > > > > > > Man ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related> > to> > > > > > Astrology> > > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho > >ps.com> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > > > > > Manoj Chn> > > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde> > > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we> > > > > > recognize> > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the> > inside.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>> > <%40>> > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not> > > > > > recogni.....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 6, 2009 Dear Bohraji,If i start to count the faults in me, I may take many many lifetimes and still not be able to count them fully...I am very open to discussion, but those entering the discussion have the great responsibility of putting their matters across clearly and briefly, so that people listening to them can understand it. This is the second rule to be followed in any tatva-vada. But, the first rule is to quote the shastras as pramaaNa to tell exactly what they are quoting (in sanskrit) and from where, so that people know that this not some errant idea, but is according to the Vedas. Why sanskrit? Why not hindi or assamese? Because translations into other languages can be dangerously incorrect and may change the entire meaning of the statement - for example, the word " varNa " has lead to many complications in Hinduism by misunderstanding. The last rule is that we should employ point by point responses to questions asked so that the debate is fruitful to the readers and the discussants. There are three simple rules of discussion. We have been given intelligence so that we employ it in the service of Paramatma - and we do this by investigating and discussing...and that can be done successfully only by following rules ( like we address everyone respectfully and also sign emails). When I did not see these being followed, I waited for further emails to clarify them, and to answer the questions I asked (still waiting for them) - but they did not come, leading me to believe that this is less of a discussion and more of parading of one's limited understanding. I have never described or felt that I am a teacher...I dont know what made you come to that conclusion. I am still open to debate, I have much to learn in life - but I do not intend to waste precious time in listening to more avidya in disguise - and the only way we can distinguish it when strangers speak, is the use of shastra- pramANa...if my demanding this from you is incorrect, then I should withdraw from the debate. Also, the age of this current physical body is immaterial....so my age vis-a-vis yours is just a matter of time...that is what I feel. If you feel you are older than me, and I should keep quiet, then so be it. hari smaraNs,prANadAsa.On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:16 PM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: Paranadasa ji, When you entered in the thread I get the impression,you will discuss the topic with free of mind but i was wrong your attempt was with mindset. Problems are lying with our attitude,by few conversation with some one we assuming what he is and what he have.We ourself acquire the seat of " Teacher " and treat other as a student only,where we are all student here in this world.By getting some specific knowledge of the particular subject we think that we are the final authority on this subject.At this level we leave to learn more and appear always with some mindset.Further development stop here because we stop to learn or understand other new view on the subject. Many times it happens with me also when my children asks me some questions and i have no answer or the answer make me to do some thing els which i never like to do or the answer leads me to accept his/her view is more correct than me.These all a direct hit to my ego,my " Father " figure post cold not digest it than i use some anger or taken help of other word to stop him/her to asking such questions again.It happens with all of us so many times. But in fact questions remain in His/her mind but they understand that they have knocked the wrong door. What you have analyzed and how you came to on conclusion it was all your presumptions.Please read again mu message,yes i asked so many question but if you give answer to yourself you will realize they all are just leads there ,which i want to convey.There is no offensive word and act in my message where you have used so many word which are absolutely a offensive act only. " Svetaketu " was the peak of your mindset about me. I am a very commonman as like every second Hindu.I have no achievement in spiritual side to claim. I have not taken your comments seriously but realize to stop here. It is your greatness that you taken my questions to reply me and try to make me understand your's views on the subject.For that I am very thankful to you. I have no so command on language and expressen power as like you so take my post as a common man who can convey the message only. M.S.Bohra , s s <freemorons wrote: > > Dear Bohraji, >at was a gregre quot, similmilar tohe on from om Chandogya uishadEvaEva > yA AAO kaa aOtiOtiiadddadddauuunAaaA aaEEEIIaaIvtvbmmvaaaai annnn t t th hahi hah hh h hhhh he dae aftayaftayzzd tt dn, dnn,ri , rif bif l cc l ccccdoccd d g td g to hah arahraa ,ha t wla ttfbeitfu.itfu..itfu.iiundun fofo e fe>f> fe>f> rr ligio ionseis se ww se wodsdl wherl wherl encne e sonosrsondigcondisc >di gret g ata t tatrt y atrt lirlings, Iings, I tngs, I truly do..it isat et thatat gols at s od in sho dng tohowing tones and peopl of people. We have to rely ost > understanding the words that the email contains - communicating using > different words shows the different mindsets, and I merely said what was my > analysis of your emails. It may entirely be possible that I am just an > idiotic upstart who does not understand the greatness of your spiritual > growth...only paramAtma knows. > Whe clien n fht on whlohlnanntertedssr rr heth teotheth teotton yty ryy n yee ryys recrls ebeaeltae b eeltaal bhehe cel eeche r >pechee c >pechI kyig..aI kg g.hnaIeek yheaets theeetthat hat ilh fhaa ill fhat mrorfiofl mrorrrofrm> frr t > :h:)forg> th:)givgi rgforgivyorgforgivs aN m ,s sNs> , n > n n n n ,2011,0,20,2011 20,9 at 1, 11 20 A a ms, m11ohr AMbomsbohra62 <msbohra62@> >> > > e > > > > > > > > > > Dea > > > > > Dear P ar Para ji, >r st t m after > s m me after > st ime timet lose thmet yomethae one you buon on easona aysonaly.alay.> ashe ly.I ly.I > >pit iiee te to trererto oo havr ablrto rbleothr ablter rbte theto >e e ote to ote > ti h tite > tith prsr ine fur furwi ine fur fu wit tneait q it t oneait qshis t w onuof h w on of hsivia whicvsivsvenoearf r rf Budduddor KP ich wAstrr recen, >l> l > / / > " D/ nol nologer el ng ng he said jsstdout ofout oectefor him. Doim. Do not > > believe > > thing shmply bmply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything > > simply > > because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply > > because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in > > anything > > merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in > > traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But > > after > > observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason > > and is > > conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live > > up to > > it. " > > -Lord Buddha// > > > > Pranam to you, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > wrote: > > > ji, > Bohraji, > w plan " Doo we kow plants do mind " mind " - Pleat you ine wh > > 1em youha-Do > > w yoeng- mang re calre calling d " minm cmean.. ean ) .alave no pwe Atm. Bind > l einl Mind dorn, Misn, Mind ( wemal teof nasnwy isnty in par bnas)n nfain n wa aci ysl nerc > > s maiand vou bapaaciadvacd bp sys ato cticed aaciadv9to ctifslli to ct9% > > > > 99to plhse.t.. adv99% erefoe..> of herefe..fso pd >eereroe...ss > > > e..areefd >y carefo..ss >> > > cado nully >l> >m-es dond thasis not is nett have aatot hatis thatha,,ett have ett have s no tthatha,, cthen ttith it.. Rfer tify it.. r> sigli " " hs hated > sigst " " staaated sannd, havystatud ea aannth bo> udntud eavyd yot bo>it b ntu g dtid as -it b -ig -g - Id st aso i -ig -ni a - n dtd ot g -is w ng,ot dtd sot cg- I cla wot m > > eig, I claI Ia m > > eare > 2) I Ia me..e aware of Mundaka upan> > > s w of y oaks " dvaa supa Mand ka up > > ayuj w ofhaunaa.s " dvaa sasa dfam> > > vsa syujaa ak v bidur > > > bsuaupam o v bvsur > > > w bi bidur > > bsuaaup..ouu bidur > >sat is cea lh > la kackaouudye.l > > .ouu> > >pk > .. to ealore t>run w exlore theen yn yo > wihpkrllhn to Turore thlei w exlore the purfna wi wikya puran > > > o t(aefie > > >undekya rurfna wi,dulse puran > applse - if you e w youw> > tow e w you > > to > > yu to becbcouraguraged (if ou a gt aged (if ou arrtthe latte, in in the latter case, youdeio > >nto ma > deeper ifrom Godhead.away from Godhead. > > > > > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. Please > > > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. But > > > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot > > > con > > > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > prANadsa > > > > > > > > > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Very s > > y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa > > > > > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron > > e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me. > > >neo w > > kno > > tkn > > knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot " Shd > > act > > gand actid totivity ? > > > ca> > > ? > > > ca> > > > > > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > > > > > ea> > > >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only > > > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > > > > > >ki > > > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with any > > one.If > > > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> > > > >me. > > > > > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > > > these > > > these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > > > > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in > > Sanatan-Dharma > > > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou uneasy.I am > > not > > > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop > > me> > > to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and youclaimi > > g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > Pranam, > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > e: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and also > > what > > > > iing di > > cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. > > >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they have > > no > > > > >> > > > > > ent > > > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is just > > ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak> > > anddthe > > > > > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > > > nAs . > > > > > > > nAsa. > > >> > ireche eihe > > > > > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan > > > > all > > dbb> S > > >nd he > > > > i nAstidtel telling> di > > > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl > > ee> > to thsh are deecribing> > > > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling > > hobse dselis no mang > > , oelangno stThete is > > is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it > > talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > > > >> p > > > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have > > disappointed > > > > me > > > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to > > this, > > > > > aears > > > > rs to > > > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > > > > a of > > > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the level > > to > > > > > which yog -, it > > rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's > > > > slight > > > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says > > > > " ahaMkArO > > > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth thinthinkinthly > > in Kris > > > >says > > t I > > > > > > > > > s > > > > I > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed> > > > > > ae ti > > ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I > > or atlease one> I > > > o > > > > > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that > > > > > > > ahlotuss > > > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > > > > >ar hari > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANa > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, > > > > > > > > i, ma. > > > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where you > > > > > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge where > > you > > > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t > > > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is not a > > > > Physical > > > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > > > t > > > > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > > > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > wef > > ouc > > > > D > > > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > > > na > > > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > > > > h > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > v hi > > > > > > ev > > > > e svva > > > > > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > > > > h > > > > .eihappeeratudav > > > > > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > > > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > > > re happet is also a stathe > > > > am agyab.E > > > > eey ree > > > > isomhwn i > > > > tha > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > > > eate of mind > > > > > > > > >every, > > > > > > > tra > > > > > d > > > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r no > > one c > > > > a to T > > > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p Paramtrtve > > > > maximum > > > > amucapasable e exten Th > > > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > > > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > > > > >ant> J > > > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio > > ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn > > > > ones > > > > anyaand -ngs > > > > >r and r idual c > > > > ,nt> > > > > > octti > > > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > > > > the > > > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > > > > nctun > > > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > > > > > > > pa> in the b are > > > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > > > > foY>urdca > > > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he > > formGodhyad.Youre > > > > mporta lat er, w > > > > whacr is > > > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha > > > > e aderof ade cthechit > > > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > >f, > > > > > > > ory, > > > > > > ryory, > > > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > > > > at r > > > > > > liports > > > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > > > > tence ersta > > > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, a > > > > brofrienda > > > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role le > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him playing > > > > > > different > > > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a > > husband > > > > in > > > > > > him > > > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an > > example > > > > of > > > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with > > Krishna > > > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants him > > to > > > > be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship divinity - > > for > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. a > > bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen Sep > > > > > > > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the ultimalbu > > > > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > > > th > > > > > > real> > th > > > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of " > > > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva is > > not a > > > > > > Physical > > > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > > > ga> > > > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay they > > > > worship > > > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes > > thefor > > > > > > Dhance of > > > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > > > > I celigion and > > > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det a > > > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40><a > > > > > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > > > > > s s> > > > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question > > is > > > > bad - > > > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical > > > > question > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > angry which > > > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the > > > > servate > > > > > > God, y > > > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with > > our > > > > > > intellect, > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue of > > > > sadhana > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > havat > > > > maybe > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > seers > > > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these > > > > questions - > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of > > philosophical > > > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go > > > > deep > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This > > clearly > > > > > > shows a > > > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - > > an > > > > > > armchair > > > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this > > person's > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put > > into > > > > > > words. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. > > in > > > > > > > > particular) > > > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is > > no > > > > > > origin > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves > > > > > > alizatio > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > ly when he > > > > > > > > appear> > > > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness > > and > > > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to name > > the > > > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did > > Vamana > > > > to > > > > > > Aditi > > > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees > > > > indeed > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one > > without > > > > > > origin, > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a > > fantastic > > > > gold > > > > > > mine > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he > > Bhagawad > > > > > > gIta. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be > > mindless, > > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > > > ofmindonasa(destruction > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which > > comes > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of > > > > THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the self > > > > with i, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we > > > > become > > > > > > free > > > > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also an > > > > > > imagination > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no > > > > matter > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where > > is > > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma > > ceases. So > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the > > self > > > > with > > > > > > i, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans > > > > maya...sans > > > > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, > > > > shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / > > > > TAT, > > > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > > > > n <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest > > questioohra62y > > > > mind > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and > > > > getting > > > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there desire > > > > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire > > result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the > > God > > > > or > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related > > to > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we > > > > > > recognize > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not > > > > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2009 Dear Paranadasa ji, You have the respect of your Guruji's word as you have stated as a " Gift " , //Guruji: " In ancient times, the sages had to use symbols and tell stories to make common people understand deep scientific concepts. It is upto us to unravel them. Do not reject things before analyzing, for then you are doing a great disservice to all their efforts " .// Now my basic question in other words to you again " The all our Deities are not only symbols ? " I am not denial about the ultimate power here and I am also doing worship some deities in my regular day life.But I would like to say it is pure science,a great..great Psychology behind all deities, about Human Psychology.A self hypnosis process which opens all the ways to grow accordingly to worship of deities and the keen force(Desire) of the person who worship his deities to achieve his desire target. When you recite 'Durgaspatsati " you feel every thing is happens within you only,all the " Devi-roop " and Ashur are within us.To fight the Ashur(Tamsik-tatva) we have to concentrate on good(Satvik-tatva) thoughts.Who are in practice to recite " Durgasatsati " they can feel it.All the " Kavach " are the best example of self hypnosis process. Knowing the " Shastra " ,understanding the " Shastra " and getting the real essence of 'Shastra' all are very different things.After the journey of whole universe(Shastra)we come to understand the real " point " where we have to take journey for realization of real truth,why we should not start the journey form this point at beginning. I means to say Ishawar or ultimate power is within us only,have to recognise it, learn to activate it and to achieve it.How to reduce " Tamsik " , " Rajsik " tatva and develop more and more " Satvik " tatva within ourself.Every creation of this universe is only mixer of these three tatva. I do not have any 'Shastra " references about it so please don't asked me to put it here,its all my little personal experiences.Sharing it here to know that others also have the same experiences in their personal life or not. If you find this message according to you a " Avidhya " ,booki knowledge,limited understanding etc than please after reading forget it for all the time.Because its all my personal observations and on the risk of being taken as foolish,i am sharing here for other members. M.S.Bohra --- te: > > Dear Bohra I, > If i starcount tunt the faults in me, I may take many many lifetimes and to cou not be able to couem them fully... > > I am very open to discussion, but those entering the discussion have the > great responsibility of putting their matters across clearly and briefly, so > that people listening to them can understand it. This is the second rule to > be followed in any tatva-vada. But, the first is to quot quote the shastras > as pramaaNa to txactly wtly whais to quto quoting (in sat) and and from > wherelltt peoplpeopl they arhis not ome ermant iant idut isut is accoro that p the VVdas..Whskkit?kkrit Why nnot hindi or ass? Becasecauseetraiions ions o othherother anguages cannbe danggemese? Benorrect asllatiy to oe entoee> meanin f the of tte st -eemen --for exxampe, thee word " varNa " has led to many > compns inions in Hnduissm by misunderstanding The llst rulle is that ation should employ point by poponseesponses o queestions asked so that thedebate > is fru uitful to the readers and the discussants. There are three simple rules > of discussion. > > We have been given intelligence so that we employ it in the service of > Paramatma - and we do this by investiand discud diussing.....and that can be > de successfslly ononlying and dwing rules ( like we addrryone >ryone tfuspecectfuy andnd also sign emai). When I I d nototee these being g followed, > I waited for further emails to clarify them, and to answer the questions I > asked (still waiting for them) - but they did not come, leading me to > believe that this is less of a discussion and more of parading of one's > limited understanding. I have never described or felt that I am a > teacher...I dont know what made you come to that conclu > I. > > I amtillll open to debate, I have much toearn i in lif. > but I do not > intend to waste precioun lime in listeng t to more avidya in disguise - and > t only waway we can ish itguish it wn strarangers speak, is the use of > shastra- prngug..if mymy demanding this from you rect, trrn I sho I shouou > withd hdraw from the debate. > > Alsorrerr, th this cu current physical body is immat.so my age >my > vis-a-vis vis yours is just a matter of timehat iat is whl. If you. If yeelf> you you are older than me, and I should keeI. Iel. Ithen so be it. > > > hari smaraNs, > prA> >sa. > On On > On p 6, Sep 6, 200 PM, msbohraohrab2@sbohr2 (AT) sbo (DOT) .>62@..e: wrote: > > > > > > > Par 1:1a PM, <ms> <msb > > the > > topic with free of mind but ission,you ilur ah mindseas with mindset. > > > > Problems are attitwith o fewttitude,by few conversati > > > Psome one we > > assuming what he is an few c he haatioe outh some quire the seat of > > " Teacher " and tre he have.as a stud we arey,where we are all student here in > > this world.By getting ,where ecific knowledge of the particular subject we > > think that we are trity oal authority on this subject.At this level we leave > > to learn more and appear always with some mindset.Further development stop > > here because we stop to learn or understand other new view on the subject. > > > > Many times it happens with me also when my children asks me some questions > > and i have no answer or the answer make me to do some thing els which i > > never like to do or the answer leads me to accept his/her v> c is more > > correct than me.These all a direct hit to my ego,my orether " figure post > > cold not digest it than i use some anger or taken herd to sther word to stop > > him/her to asking such questions again.It happens with all of us so many > > times. > > > > But in fact questions remain in His/her mind but they understand that they > > have knocked the wrong door. > > > > What you have analyzed and how you came to on conclusion it was all your > > presumptions.Please read again mu message,yes i asked so many question but > > if you give answer to yourself you will realize they all are just leads > > there ,which i want to convey.There is no offensive word and act in my > > message where you have used so many word which are absolutely a offensive > > act only. " Svetaketu " was the peak of your mindset about me. > > > > I am a very commonman as like evdu.I haved Hindu.I have no achievement in > > spiritual side to claind Hhave not > > .. > > > > It is your greatness that you taken my questions to reply me reatney to > > make me understand your's views on the subject.For that I am very thankful > > to you. > > > > I have no so command on language and expressen power as like you so take my > > post expreommon man who can convey the message only. > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > @grou> > > > -cient_indian_astrology%40Bo ra > >ci<freemorons@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bohraji, > > >at was a gregre quot, similmilar tohe on from om Chandogya uishadEvot, similmilar tohe on > om om Chand > > yA > > > > AAO kaa vtvbmmvaaO kaa >nn t > > > > t > aOtiuu > > >aEEEIIaAaaA a mm > > aIvtvbmmva O ka> > h t > > > t > d auuu > > >ayzzd tt > , dnn,ri , rihh > l cc ae > >> >tayaft > > aftayaftayzzd tt > , dnn,ri , rif > l c aeri> rif bif l c> l c , dn a> > ff bif l c n cc, > > se > >ife w e wodsdl wherl wherl ancne e son t wlahatfbeii tondis ...ifu > .idret > > g >fo > > ata > > > > > >trtta > > y > > r atrtlings,ngs, Ii I tng t gstruly ul. do..ia isattet th tat gat at s > > od in sho dng g howingng tes and peopl of pepeoe. We have toto relyst > > > unundetstandinghehe wos ththathe email contains - communicating using > > > different words shows the different mindsets, and I merely said what was > > my > > > analysis of your emails. It may entirely be possible that I am just an > > > idiotic upstart who does not understand the greatness of your spiritual > > > growth...only paramAtma knows. > > > > > Whe clien n fht on whlohlnanntertedssr rr heth > > teotheth > > teotton yty ryy > > n yee ryys recrls > > ebeaeltae > > b eeltaal bhehe cel eeche r > > >pechee c > > >pechI kyig..aI kg > > g.hnaIeek yheaets theeetthat hat ilh fhaa ill fhat > > mrorfiofl > > mrorrrofrm> frr t > > > :h:)forg> > > th:)givgi > > rgforgivyorgforgivs > > aN m ,s > > sNs> > > , > > > > n > > > > > > > n > > > > n > > > > n > > > > n > > > > ,2011,0,20,2011 20,9 at 1, > > 11 20 A a ms, m11ohr AMbomsbohra62 <msbohra62@> >> > > > > e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dea > > > > > > > > > > > Dear P > > ar Para ji, > > >r st t m > > > > after > s m me after > st ime timet lose thmet > > yomethae one you buon on easona aysonaly.alay.> ashe ly.I > > ly.I > > > >pit iiee te to trererto oo havr ablrto rbleothr ablter rbte > > theto > > >e e > > ote > > to > > ote > > > ti > > h tite > tith prsr > > ine fur > > furwi > > ine fur > > fu > > wit > > tneait q > > > > it > > t > > oneait qshis t w onuof h w on of hsivia whicvsivsvenoearf r rf Budduddor KP > > ich wAstrr recen, > > >l> > > l > / > > > > / > > > " D/ nol nologer el ng ng he said jsstdout ofout oectefor him. Doim. Do > > not > > > > believe > > > > thing shmply bmply because you have heard it. Do not believe in > > anything > > > > simply > > > > because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything > > simply > > > > because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in > > > > anything > > > > merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in > > > > traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But > > > > after > > > > observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with > > reason > > > > and is > > > > conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and > > live > > > > up to > > > > it. " > > > > -Lord Buddha// > > > > > > > > Pranam to you, > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ji, > > > Bohraji, > > > w plan " Doo we kow plants do mind " mind " - Pleat you ine wh > > > > 1em > > youha-Do > > > > > > w > > > > yoeng- mang re calre calling d " minm cmean.. ean ) .alave no pwe Atm. Bind > > > l > > einl > > Mind dorn, Misn, Mind ( wemal teof nasnwy isnty in par bnas)n nfain n wa > > aci > > ysl nerc > > > > s > > maiand vou bapaaciadvacd bp > > sys ato cticed aaciadv9to ctifslli to ct9% > > > > > > > > 99to plhse.t.. adv99% > > erefoe..> of herefe..fso pd > > >eereroe...ss > > > > > > > e..areefd > > >y > > carefo..ss > > >> > > > > cado nully > > >l> >m-es dond thasis > > not > > is > > nett have aatot > > hatis thatha,,ett have > > ett have s > > no tthatha,, cthen ttith it.. Rfer tify it.. r> sigli " " > > hs > > hated > sigst " " > > staaated sannd, > > havystatud ea > > aannth bo> udntud eavyd yot bo>it b ntu g dtid as -it b -ig -g - Id st aso > > i -ig -ni a - n dtd > > ot g -is w > > ng,ot dtd sot cg- I cla wot m > > > > > > eig, I claI Ia m > > > > > > eare > 2) I Ia me..e aware of Mundaka upan> > > > > s w of y oaks " dvaa supa Mand > > ka up > > > > ayuj w ofhaunaa.s " dvaa sasa dfam> > > > > vsa syujaa ak v bidur > > > > > > > bsuaupam > > o v bvsur > > > > > > > > > w bi bidur > > > > > > > > bsuaaup..ouu bidur > > > > > > > >sat > > is cea lh > > > la kackaouudye.l > > > > .ouu> > > > >pk > .. > > to ealore t>run w > > exlore theen yn yo > > > wihpkrllhn to Turore thlei w > > exlore the purfna wi wikya puran > > > > > > > o t(aefie > > > > >undekya rurfna wi,dulse puran > > > applse - if you e w youw> > tow e w you > > > > to > > > > yu to becbcouraguraged (if ou a > > gt aged (if ou arrtthe latte, in in the latter case, youdeio > > > >nto ma > > > deeper ifrom Godhead.away from Godhead. > > > > > > > > > > > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. > > Please > > > > > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the beginning. > > But > > > > > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant, whichot > > > > > con > > > > > conducive to discussion... you sound like Svetaketu. > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > prANadsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very s > > > > y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa > > > > > > > > > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron > > > > e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me. > > > > >neo w > > > > kno > > > > tkn > > > > knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control theot > > " Shd > > > > act > > > > gand actid totivity ? > > > > > ca> > > > > ? > > > > > ca> > > > > > > > > > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > > > > > > > > > ea> > > > > >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are only > > > > > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > > > > > > > > > >ki > > > > > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble with > > any > > > > one.If > > > > > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> > > > > > >me. > > > > > > > > > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > > > > > these > > > > > these questions here, before wise persons as like you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh,losing faith in > > > > Sanatan-Dharma > > > > > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou > > uneasy.I am > > > > not > > > > > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop > > > > me> > > > > to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and > > youclaimi > > > > g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the only > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pranam, > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > e: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after and > > also > > > > what > > > > > > iing di > > > > cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. > > > > >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas (they > > have > > > > no > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ent > > > > > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness)?ve no is > > just > > > > ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak> > > > > anddthe > > > > > > > > > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > > > > > nAs . > > > > > > > > > > > nAsa. > > > > >> > ireche eihe > > > > > > > > > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan > > > > > > > > all > > > > dbb> S > > > > >nd he > > > > > > i nAstidtel telling> di > > > > > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl > > > > ee> > to thsh are deecribing> > > > > > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling > > > > hobse dselis no mang > > > > , oelangno stThete is > > > > is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it > > > > talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > > > > > >> p > > > > > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have > > > > disappointed > > > > > > me > > > > > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary to > > > > this, > > > > > > > aears > > > > > > rs to > > > > > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it > > > > > > > a of > > > > > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand the > > level > > > > to > > > > > > > which yog -, it > > > > rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's > > > > > > slight > > > > > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id> > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " says > > > > > > " ahaMkArO > > > > > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth > > thinthinkinthly > > > > in Kris > > > > > >says > > > > t I > > > > > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo-acad thrntursuits.... ta med>treeed> > > > > > > > ae ti > > > > ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I > > > > or atlease one> I > > > > > o > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon that > > > > > > > > > > > ahlotuss > > > > > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma. > > > > > > >ar hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > prANa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, > > > > > > > > > > > > i, ma. > > > > > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1:for : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200 //Where > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the knowledge > > where > > > > you > > > > > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t > > > > > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva is > > not a > > > > > > Physical > > > > > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > > > > > t > > > > > > > > aham-Ta/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> > > > > > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull > > > > > > >tiolhnoillulslityohappons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > > > wef > > > > ouc > > > > > > D > > > > > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > > > > > na > > > > > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai > > > > > > > > h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > v hi > > > > > > > > ev > > > > > > e svva > > > > > > > > > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav > > > > > > > h > > > > > > .eihappeeratudav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a > > > > > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > > > > > re happet is also a stathe > > > > > > am agyab.E > > > > > > eey ree > > > > > > isomhwn i > > > > > > tha > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eate of mind > > > > > > > > > > > > >every, > > > > > > > > > tra > > > > > > > d > > > > > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the > > > > > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius, f r > > no > > > > one c > > > > > > a to T > > > > > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p > > Paramtrtve > > > > > > maximum > > > > > > amucapasable e exten Th > > > > > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy meantene e > > > > > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat> > > > > > > >ant> J > > > > > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio > > > > ravelaralpaalpaapaoitdendnnn > > > > > > ones > > > > > > anyaand -ngs > > > > > > >r and r idual c > > > > > > ,nt> > > > > > > > octti > > > > > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln,ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara > > > > > > > the > > > > > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf > > > > > > > > nctun > > > > > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par > > > > > > > > > > > > pa> in the b are > > > > > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is > > > > > > foY>urdca > > > > > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad's reveal that thade ade of he > > > > formGodhyad.Youre > > > > > > mporta lat er, w > > > > > > whacr is > > > > > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahankaal that tha > > > > > > e aderof ade cthechit > > > > > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > >f, > > > > > > > > > ory, > > > > > > > > ryory, > > > > > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid). Wetid). Whilt tmat ry s > > > > > > > > at r > > > > > > > > liports > > > > > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min the or > > > > > > > > >foeaora. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where istenee of > > > > > > > > tence ersta > > > > > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba son, > > a > > > > > > brofrienda > > > > > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The role > > le > > > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him > > playing > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she sees a > > > > husband > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This is an > > > > example > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar with > > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee wants > > him > > > > to > > > > > > be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship > > divinity - > > > > for > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a bit. > > a > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n evepen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e owen > > Sep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On009 at 11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i > > > > > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the > > ultimalbu > > > > > > > > > > the " Gr > > > > > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > > > > > th > > > > > > > > real> > th > > > > > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere you > > > > > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge of > > " > > > > > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not atva > > is > > > > not a > > > > > > > > Physical > > > > > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl > > > > > > > > > > h Diff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > > > > > ga> > > > > > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly,as like > > > > > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for Budhi-chaturay > > they > > > > > > worship > > > > > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than > " Ganes > > > > thefor > > > > > > > > Dhance of > > > > > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T > > > > > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi > > > > > > > > > > > I celigion and > > > > > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer det > > a > > > > > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40><a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastrologgroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > s s> > > > > > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere > > question > > > > is > > > > > > bad - > > > > > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a > > philosophical > > > > > > question > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis > > > > > > > > > > ds - so why are we > > > > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > > angry which > > > > > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > > > > > this " ? > > > > > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in > > the > > > > > > servate > > > > > > > > God, y > > > > > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a > > different > > > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious > > with > > > > our > > > > > > > > intellect, > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by virtue > > of > > > > > > sadhana > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of > > > > > > > > Bhakti....others > > > > > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to> > > > havat > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > seers > > > > > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved these > > > > > > questions - > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of > > > > philosophical > > > > > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they did > > not go > > > > > > deep > > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > shows a > > > > > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " > > - > > > > an > > > > > > > > armchair > > > > > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this > > > > person's > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be > > put > > > > into > > > > > > > > words. > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna > > U. > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > particular) > > > > > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that > > there is > > > > no > > > > > > > > origin > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call > > themselves > > > > > > > > alizatio > > > > > > > > > > father > > > > > > > > ly when he > > > > > > > > > > appear> > > > > > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His > > kindness > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name to > > name > > > > the > > > > > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did > > > > Vamana > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Aditi > > > > > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted > > devotees > > > > > > indeed > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one > > > > without > > > > > > > > origin, > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a > > > > fantastic > > > > > > gold > > > > > > > > mine > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one he > > > > Bhagawad > > > > > > > > gIta. > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > > > > > prANadAsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Bhaga > > > > > > > > > > > *Dear V). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be > > > > mindless, > > > > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > > > > > ofmindonasa(destruction > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > mind).... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > gopiGu > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination which > > > > comes > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE > > of > > > > > > THAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not > > addressed2me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of the > > self > > > > > > with i, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and > > we > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > Mind of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is also > > an > > > > > > > > imagination > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the > > " mind " ....no > > > > > > matter > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is > > where > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > >..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where karma > > > > ceases. So > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the > > > > self > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > i, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes... > > > > > > > > fect us....and we become free > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans > > > > > > maya...sans > > > > > > > > > > ego.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... > > shivoham, > > > > > > shivoham! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become > > THAT / > > > > > > TAT, > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > > > > > >nd best >shes, > > > > > > > > > n <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest > > > > questioohra62y > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " > > and > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there > > desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > result > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire > > > > result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and > > what > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > > > > > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created > > the > > > > God > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not > > related > > > > to > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > > > > >subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_astrology@yaho> > >ps.com > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can > > we > > > > > > > > recognize > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <%40.\ com> > > <%40> > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may > > not > > > > > > > > recogni..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 8, 2009 This is wonderful that so many people are responding to these questions.However, I need to clarify one thing: The different schools of thoughts ( in recent history, starting with Shankaracharya, then Ramanujacharya and later on Madhwacharya (most recent among the acharya-trayas) have their own particular beauty. In fact, nearly 21 people have tried rewriting or enhancing bhashyas to clarify what the vedas mean - and this is a unique trait which can be found ONLY in hinduism. Thank God for that ! :-) Shankarji and others - I have no animosity towards schools - your lengthy post (even though it is ostensibly written to *clarify* my one -uncontroversial-statement) belies the fact that I have somehow touched a nerve - this discussion will go nowhere if we all get angry explicitly or implicitly, so I wanted to make it clear. You may not be aware that I have spent years analyzing Advaita, VishishTadvaita, Dvaita, Islam, Christianity, Zororastrianism and spent a little less time on Judaism, Jainism and Buddhism - I love and respect all these schools, for they reveal the extent to which the founder's understanding has developed...so please rest assured that I dont have any agenda of hate against Shankaracharya. Your points require a detailed post, which is not directly connected to this discussion (as you have yourself mentioned),.so it will perhaps be answered in another email. As I am shifting houses now and also with 10,000 other commitments, this may take sometime (Bohraji's debate should finish first before I start on another :-) I have a small brain...). hari smaraNs,prANadAsa.On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 3:05 AM, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv wrote: Dear All, There was a newspaper report , maybe a year ago, that a great original thinker in US has come to the conclusion that God is nothing but a figment on man's mind. The guy, in my insignificant opinion is at the first stage of getting religious. Hope he lives long enough to tell the world what he thinks after a few years. I think we worship God in the likeness of human form becuase it would be difficult for us to imagine otherwise. Why, we cant even think of God's form in other races and physical features ( imagine Ram as Japanese, Jesus as Chinese etc ). In different stages of our emotional and consciousness growth we think and love god in different ways. So we have Vatsalya Prem ( love him like a baby ), Sakha Prem ( like a friend ) etc. This is a graduating process for the human being immersed in Sansara. Any way too mush discussion will leave one " all dressed up and nowhere to go " . It would be better to go there inappropriately dressed .... God , does not agree with Shakespear " Clothes maketh a man " . So dont worry - just do it. Some of the above may be slogans of consumer brands and were inadvertantly used.Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Tue, 8/9/09, s s <freemorons wrote: s s <freemorons Re: Moksha... Date: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009, 7:33 AM My dear Bohraji,You have asked such an excellent question - a very fine question that idealsadhakas who *think *should ask. Thank you for that..Question: Are deities not merely symbols? Answer: There are 2 ways to investigate the correct answers to a question:Start from scratch and do each and every bit of investigation ourself...or2) Build upon what is already known and proven, so that we advance knowledge of entire mankind. Since it is difficult to do meditation to analyze all the " from step 1 " questions ( The bhagawatam indicates that it may take upto60,000 years of concentrated effort to arrive at the first step of the Vedas) we can chose the second option - much like the modern world ofscience. How do we know what the other people have said in shastras is true?Because independent rishi's have arrived at the same conclusion separately, after meditating and have realized (got sakshatkar) and have recorded thisas being true in the shastras. For the record here, I have to make clearthat I consider the following as shastras: The vedas, the itihasas, somepuranas and the pancharatra) .At the heart of your question is the element of advaita - the belief that there is only one soul and that there are no other souls, and all of what weare seeing and experiencing is mithya (maya), which will become " ONE " at thetime of liberation. This is the radical concept that Adi Shankaracharya brought into Hinduism from Buddhism (it was not his original concept too, heattributes it clearly to his guru GauDapAda). The advaita school maintainsthat we are all ONE and that there is no difference at all. Before I proceed to answer your question in detail with pramANas from the scriptures, Iwould like to know your thoughts on this front - do you to thisthought of ONE-ness?hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:54 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: >>> Dear Paranadasa ji,>> You have the respect of your Guruji's word as you have stated as a " Gift " ,>> //Guruji: " In ancient times, the sages had to use symbols and tell stories > to make common people understand deep scientific concepts. It is upto us to> unravel them. Do not reject things before analyzing, for then you are doing> a great disservice to all their efforts " .// >> Now my basic question in other words to you again " The all our Deities are> not only symbols ? " >> I am not denial about the ultimate power here and I am also doing worship> some deities in my regular day life.But I would like to say it is pure> science,a great..great Psychology behind all deities, about Human> Psychology.A self hypnosis process which opens all the ways to grow> accordingly to worship of deities and the keen force(Desire) of the person > who worship his deities to achieve his desire target.>> When you recite 'Durgaspatsati " you feel every thing is happens within you> only,all the " Devi-roop " and Ashur are within us.To fight the > Ashur(Tamsik- tatva) we have to concentrate on good(Satvik- tatva)> thoughts.Who are in practice to recite " Durgasatsati " they can feel it.All> the " Kavach " are the best example of self hypnosis process. >> Knowing the " Shastra " ,understanding the " Shastra " and getting the real> essence of 'Shastra' all are very different things.After the journey of> whole universe(Shastra) we come to understand the real " point " where we have> to take journey for realization of real truth,why we should not start the> journey form this point at beginning.>> I means to say Ishawar or ultimate power is within us only,have to > recognise it, learn to activate it and to achieve it.How to reduce> " Tamsik " , " Rajsik " tatva and develop more and more " Satvik " tatva within> ourself.Every creation of this universe is only mixer of these three tatva. >> I do not have any 'Shastra " references about it so please don't asked me to> put it here,its all my little personal experiences. Sharing it here to know> that others also have the same experiences in their personal life or not. >> If you find this message according to you a " Avidhya " ,booki> knowledge,limited understanding etc than please after reading forget it for> all the time.Because its all my personal observations and on the risk of > being taken as foolish,i am sharing here for other members.>> M.S.Bohra>> --- te:> >> > Dear Bohra I,> > If i starcount tunt the faults in me, I may take many many lifetimes and > to cou not be able to couem them fully...>> >> > I am very open to discussion, but those entering the discussion have the> > great responsibility of putting their matters across clearly and briefly, > so> > that people listening to them can understand it. This is the second rule> to> > be followed in any tatva-vada. But, the first is to quot quote the> shastras> > as pramaaNa to txactly wtly whais to quto quoting (in sat) and and from > > wherelltt peoplpeopl they arhis not ome ermant iant idut isut is accoro> that p>> the VVdas..Whskkit? kkrit Why nnot hindi or ass? Becasecauseetraiion s> ions> o othherother anguages cannbe danggemese? Benorrect asllatiy to oe entoee>> meanin>> f the of tte st -eemen --for exxampe, thee word " varNa " has led to many> > compns inions in Hnduissm by misunderstanding The llst rulle is that > ation> should employ point by poponseesponses o queestions asked so that thedebate> > is fru> uitful to the readers and the discussants. There are three simple rules> > of discussion. > >> > We have been given intelligence so that we employ it in the service of> > Paramatma - and we do this by investiand discud diussing.... .and that can> be> > de successfslly ononlying and dwing rules ( like we addrryone > >ryone> tfuspecectfuy andnd also sign emai). When I I d nototee these being g> followed,> > I waited for further emails to clarify them, and to answer the questions> I> > asked (still waiting for them) - but they did not come, leading me to> > believe that this is less of a discussion and more of parading of one's> > limited understanding. I have never described or felt that I am a > > teacher...I dont know what made you come to that conclu> > I.> >> > I amtillll open to debate, I have much toearn i in lif.> > but I do not> > intend to waste precioun lime in listeng t to more avidya in disguise - > and> > t only waway we can ish itguish it wn strarangers speak, is the use of> > shastra- prngug..if mymy demanding this from you rect, trrn I sho I> shouou> > withd> hdraw from the debate. > >> > Alsorrerr, th this cu current physical body is immat.so my age> >my> > vis-a-vis> vis yours is just a matter of timehat iat is whl. If you. If yeelf> you> you are older than me, and I should keeI. Iel. Ithen so be it.> >> >> > hari smaraNs,> > prA>> >sa.> >> On On >> > On p 6, Sep 6, 200 PM, msbohraohrab2@ sbohr2 (AT) sbo (DOT) .>62@..e: wrote:> >> >> >> > >> > > Par 1:1a PM, <ms>> <msb> > > > the> > > topic with free of mind but ission,you ilur ah mindseas with mindset.> > >> > > Problems are attitwith o fewttitude,by few conversati >> > > Psome one we > > > assuming what he is an few c he haatioe outh some quire the seat of> > > " Teacher " and tre he have.as a stud we arey,where we are all student > here in> > > this world.By getting ,where ecific knowledge of the particular subject> we> > > think that we are trity oal authority on this subject.At this level we> leave> > > to learn more and appear always with some mindset.Further development> stop> > > here because we stop to learn or understand other new view on the > subject.> > >> > > Many times it happens with me also when my children asks me some> questions> > > and i have no answer or the answer make me to do some thing els which i > > > never like to do or the answer leads me to accept his/her v> c is more> > > correct than me.These all a direct hit to my ego,my orether " figure> post> > > cold not digest it than i use some anger or taken herd to sther word to > stop> > > him/her to asking such questions again.It happens with all of us so> many> > > times.> > >> > > But in fact questions remain in His/her mind but they understand that> they> > > have knocked the wrong door.> > >> > > What you have analyzed and how you came to on conclusion it was all > your> > > presumptions. Please read again mu message,yes i asked so many question> but> > > if you give answer to yourself you will realize they all are just leads> > > there ,which i want to convey.There is no offensive word and act in my > > > message where you have used so many word which are absolutely a> offensive> > > act only. " Svetaketu " was the peak of your mindset about me.> > >> > > I am a very commonman as like evdu.I haved Hindu.I have no achievement > in> > > spiritual side to claind Hhave not> > >> .> > >> > > It is your greatness that you taken my questions to reply me reatney to> > > make me understand your's views on the subject.For that I am very> thankful> > > to you.> > >> > > I have no so command on language and expressen power as like you so > take my> > > post expreommon man who can convey the message only.> > >> > > M.S.Bohra> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ grou> > > > > -cient_indian_ astrology% 40. comBo> ra> > >ci<freemorons@ > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Bohraji,> > > >at was a gregre quot, similmilar tohe on from om Chandogya uishadEvot, > similmilar tohe on> > om om Chand>> > > yA> > >> > > AAO kaa> vtvbmmvaaO kaa> >nn t> > >> > > t> > aOtiuu> >> > >aEEEIIaAaaA a> mm> > >> aIvtvbmmva> O ka>> > h> t> > > > t> > d> auuu> > > > >ayzzd tt > , dnn,ri , rihh> > l cc ae> > >> >tayaft> > > aftayaftayzzd tt > ,>> dnn,ri , rif> > l c> aeri> rif bif l c> l c >> , dn>> a> >> ff bif l c>> n cc,> > > se> > >ife w> e wodsdl wherl wherl ancne e son t wlahatfbeii tondis> ..ifu> > .idret > > > g> >fo> > > ata> > >> > >> > >trtta> > >> y> > > r atrtlings,ngs, Ii I tng t gstruly ul. do..ia isattet th tat gat at s > > > od in sho>> dng g howingng tes and peopl of pepeoe. We have toto relyst> > > > unundetstandinghehe wos ththathe email contains - communicating using>> > > > different words shows the different mindsets, and I merely said what > was> > > my> > > > analysis of your emails. It may entirely be possible that I am just> an> > > > idiotic upstart who does not understand the greatness of your > spiritual > > > > growth...only paramAtma knows.> > > >> > > Whe clien n fht on whlohlnanntertedssr rr heth> > > teotheth> > > teotton yty ryy> > > n yee ryys recrls > > > ebeaeltae> > > b eeltaal bhehe cel eeche r> > > >pechee c> > > >pechI kyig..aI kg> > > g.hnaIeek yheaets theeetthat hat ilh fhaa ill fhat> > > mrorfiofl> > > mrorrrofrm> frr t> > > > :h:)forg>> > > th:)givgi> > > rgforgivyorgforgivs> > > aN m ,s> > > sNs>> > > , > > >> > > n> > > >> > >> > > n> > >> > > n> > >> > > n> > >> > > n> > > > > > ,2011,0,20,2011 20,9 at 1,> > > 11 20 A a ms, m11ohr AMbomsbohra62 <msbohra62@> >> >> > > > e >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Dea> > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear P> > > ar Para ji,> > > >r st t m> > > > > > after > s m me after > st ime timet lose thmet> > > yomethae one you buon on easona aysonaly.alay. > ashe ly.I> > > ly.I> > > > >pit iiee te to trererto oo havr ablrto rbleothr ablter rbte> > > theto > > > >e e> > > ote> > > to> > > ote> > > > ti> > > h tite > tith prsr> > > ine fur> > > furwi> > > ine fur > > > fu> > > wit> > > tneait q> > >> > > it> > > t> > > oneait qshis t w onuof h w on of hsivia whicvsivsvenoearf r rf> Budduddor KP > > > ich wAstrr recen,> > > >l>> > > l > /> > >> > > /> > > > " D/ nol nologer el ng ng he said jsstdout ofout oectefor him. Doim. > Do> > > not> > > > > believe> > > > > thing shmply bmply because you have heard it. Do not believe in> > > anything> > > > > simply> > > > > because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in > anything> > > simply> > > > > because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe> in> > > > > anything> > > > > merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe > in> > > > > traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.> But> > > > > after> > > > > observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with > > > reason> > > > > and is> > > > > conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it> and> > > live> > > > > up to> > > > > it. " > > > > > -Lord Buddha//> > > > >> > > > > Pranam to you,> > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > ji,> > > > Bohraji,> > > > w plan " Doo we kow plants do mind " mind " - Pleat you ine wh > > > > > 1em> > > youha-Do> > >> > > > > w> > >> > > yoeng- mang re calre calling d " minm cmean.. ean ) .alave no pwe Atm.> Bind > > > > l> > > einl> > > Mind dorn, Misn, Mind ( wemal teof nasnwy isnty in par bnas)n nfain n> wa> > > aci> > > ysl nerc> > > > > s > > > maiand vou bapaaciadvacd bp> > > sys ato cticed aaciadv9to ctifslli to ct9%> > > > >> > > > > 99to plhse.t.. adv99%> > > erefoe..> of herefe..fso pd> > > >eereroe...ss > > > > > >> > > e..areefd> > > >y> > > carefo..ss> > > >> >> > > > cado nully> > > >l> >m-es dond thasis > > > not> > > is> > > nett have aatot> > > hatis thatha,,ett have> > > ett have s> > > no tthatha,, cthen ttith it.. Rfer tify it.. r> sigli " " > > > hs> > > hated > sigst " " > > > staaated sannd,> > > havystatud ea> > > aannth bo> udntud eavyd yot bo>it b ntu g dtid as -it b -ig -g - Id st > aso> > > i -ig -ni a - n dtd> > > ot g -is w> > > ng,ot dtd sot cg- I cla wot m> > > > >> > > eig, I claI Ia m> > > > >> > > eare > 2) I Ia me..e aware of Mundaka upan> > > > > > s w of y oaks " dvaa supa Mand> > > ka up> > > > > ayuj w ofhaunaa.s " dvaa sasa dfam> > >> > > vsa syujaa ak v bidur> > > > > > > > > bsuaupam> > > o v bvsur> > > >> > > >> > > > w bi bidur> > >> > > >> > > > bsuaaup..ouu bidur > > >> > > >> > > >sat> > > is cea lh> > > > la kackaouudye. l> > > > > .ouu> >> > > >pk > ..> > > to ealore t>run w > > > exlore theen yn yo> > > > wihpkrllhn to Turore thlei w> > > exlore the purfna wi wikya puran> > > > > >> > > o t(aefie> > > > > >undekya rurfna wi,dulse puran > > > > applse - if you e w youw> > tow e w you> > > > > to> > > > > yu to becbcouraguraged (if ou a> > > gt aged (if ou arrtthe latte, in in the latter case, youdeio > > > > >nto ma> > > > deeper ifrom Godhead.away from Godhead.> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > our questions not not made me uneasy, they have disappointed me. > > > Please> > > > > > remember that I was defending your asking questionYour the> beginning.> > > But> > > > > > yor style of wwricomes acrosscross as bookish and art, ant,> whichot> > > > > > con> > > > > > conducive to discussion.. . you sound like Svetaketu.> > > > > >> > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > prANadsa> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > epS5, 2005, 2009006 AM: M, msbM, ms2 <msboh<msbohra62@ > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > Very s> > > > > y sorry tha my haa my have takAsa> > > > > > > > > > > > ngly and , Ser 5, 200u12qu12:16 A> wron> > > > > e anglye alsha " ShSha " Sharudh-harudh Vea> > Very e u ahve me.> > > > > >neo w > > > > > kno> > > > > tkn> > > > > knowat noant ot P not ha h not haquethe n wh ?Than who control> theot> > > " Shd> > > > > act> > > > > gand actid totivity ? > > > > > > ca>> > > > > ?> > > > > > ca>> > > > > >> > > > > Dm we Dm wwith ngrmtats Pand it is nd it is not Shastra-Vctudh > > > > > > > >> > > > > ea>> > > > > >reg earcing inrchingyow have ou hhave ou havanths aGe only are> only> > > > > > > roadm am in se am in search wit> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >ki> > > > > > > Asking sens aae sens are nothern youwhern you hg non-humble> with> > > any> > > > > one.If > > > > > > n itapohan itpfolo i apfoogiz> >me.s> >> > > > > >me.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I a questiohave limited understandthat or that reasons i have a > > > > > > > these> > > > > > these questions here, before wise persons as like you.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Please don't use Bhaskar ji,Shastra-Virudh, losing faith in > > > > > Sanatan-Dharma> > > > > > > op me ts apising tae ques the questions whmade yoe uneasyou> > > uneasy.I am> > > > > not> > > > > > > have the capacity to influence the youth of massto stop > > > > > me>> > > > > to arisng theching the ultimathave ma e you ar,e us aside us and> > > youclaimi> > > > > g it is ing i in outer win outer widld,out side of us.It is the> only> > > > > > > difference.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Pranam, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > >> > > > > > > e:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One neorld,ouunhat isnd what is being said before and after> and> > > also> > > > > what> > > > > > > iing di> > > > > cussed beforussed before we come to the conclusion. > > > > > >and whf the mind is everything, then do plants not have jivas> (they> > > have> > > > > no> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > ent> > > > > > > ral nervous system ad so nno brain aousne consciousness) ?ve no> is> > > just > > > > > ulu> > rd iculuss, and is shasta-er uddhaa. Oher taa the ImmAmsak>> > > > > anddthe> > > > > > >> > > > > > > nA, the xistnss, the theriterii te alri bbaie a als, > > > > > > > > nAs .> > > > > > >> > > > > > nAsa.> > > > > >> > ireche eihe> > > > >> > > > > > ioayb ouiheccrdinss, the oob thino. Otheoooo thsho. Ottleritthan > > > > >> > > > > all> > > > > dbb> S> > > > > >nd he> > > > > > > i nAstidtel telling> di> > > > > > > irecheno manee oaoaanggu sbbcribebl> > > > > ee> > to thsh are deecribing> >> > > > > > he symptom, we t e talke tel oelling > > > > > hobse dselis no mang> > > > > , oelangno stThete is> > > > > is an attribute of the soung ong the symfaculties it> > > > > talkinu ab, just like thderlying. > > > > > > >> p> > > > > > > > I am sorry to saan attribute olanations you have given have> > > > > disappointed> > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > - I thought it was a sincere question by a jignyasi. Contrary> to> > > > > this, >> > > > > > > aears> > > > > > > rs to > > > > > > > to be the display ofs ow's own limited understanding -, it> > > > > > > > a of> > > > > > > > showcasing your talent, you have made some of us understand > the> > > level> > > > > to> > > > > > > > which yog -, it> > > > > rogressed spiritually. I no yourerstand Bhaskarji's> > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > ndenstanearl- healiedzed it muit much earlier than Id>> > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In the same Brlier - he quote mercilessly in KrishnsKsays " > says> > > > > > > " ahaMkArO> > > > > > > > vimUaham sarvEt: " : a > > In the i,aignor on thrnth> > > thinthinkinthly> > > > > in Kris> > > > > > >says> > > > > t I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > s> > > > > > > I> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > s> > > > > > > > g zeo-oI seo- I sudo-acaddo- acad thrntursuits. ... ta > med>treeed>> > > > > > > > ae ti> > > > > ndize and dighe arrogmatter snti ignoaaat I> > > > > or atlease one> I> > > > > > o > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > gezeo-oI seo- I sudtwirs. It rs. It p because of such deon> that> > > > >> > > > > > > > ahlotuss> > > > > > > lotuss it witters are losing faith in sanAtrma.> > > > > > > >ar hari> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hari smaraNs, > > > > > > > > prANa> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > i, ma. > > > > > > > <rbohrabohrm62 <rbo2ANaa <msb>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1:for :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > :, msbohr1:for :, msbohrareply t take my question as :>200> //Where> > > you> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > /Where you realise allyou realise ge,aftkn getting the > knowledge> > > where> > > > > you> > > > > > > > > feel the changes about yourself.If you get the knowledget t> > > > > > > " Param-Tatva " > > > > > > > > > where you feel it ?Than where is Ishm-Tatxa is Param-Tatva> is> > > not a> > > > > > > Physical> > > > > > > > > a Phtsicalt an howar-Ta/ > > > > > > > t >> > > > > > > > aham-Ta/> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Wi-Ta/t> >> > > > > > > >ana " ithouc " Jaywilee wem ?//ensesee hem ?//ens seeour ?//eull> > > > > > > >tiolhnoillulslityo happons inlity happons in ouy happeis in dur > > >> > > wef> > > > > ouc> > > > > > > D> > > > > > > iay han any Deiay han any Deiay han any D in our hs also > > > > > > > na> > > > > > > > id hn Br " Taaavgid in BG " Tatavgyans also it hua gyad.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > k > hai artha hi > > > > > > > > > hai arsiva anay dev ke sihchavashkuch hai> > > > > > > > > h> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > . > > > > > > > v hi> > > > > > > > > ev> > > > > > > e svva> > > > > > >> > > > > > > anay ucyhei h v seudav> > > > > > > > h > > > > > > > .eihappeeratudav> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > .e happeerat eashudes,ke si a> > > > > > > alay ku.h hyy higlahim " > > > > > > > > re happet is also a stathe> > > > > > > am agyab.E> > > > > > > eey ree> > > > > > > isomhwn i> > > > > > > tha > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > eate of mind> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >every,> > > > > > > > > > tra> > > > > > > > d> > > > > > > > > m> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >he:o> > > > > > > > > > m.heltlmata g goaoal is toealize t the> > > > > > > > > > themtness of Paramtatva to The mamucapacicityty withius,> f r> > > no > > > > > one c > > > > > > > a to T> > > > > > > e mamuderstacityty wire us, f m ci one c cble e exten The p> > > Paramtrtve> > > > > > > maximum> > > > > > > amucapasable e exten Th > > > > > > > p Paraoadmaps -ntenentantarnow q d such gretrarar n cimy> meantene e> > > > > > > exten T ones - - and -ngsfar and r idual capat>> > > > > > > >ant> J> > > > > > > > > >admaas -nteneionntarn fuio of he ratio> > > > > ravelaralpaalpaapao itdendnnn > > > > > > > ones> > > > > > > anyaand -ngs> > > > > > > >r and r idual c> > > > > > > ,nt>> > > > > > > > octti > > > > > > > > > > Jnyalal,naelaln, ion, fuiopart of the b ar iara> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > apaoiy.ainion oesthe emotiouf> > > > > > > > > nctun > > > > > > > > >encs nnctiontsy that ou belal,naelale ple par> > > > > > >> > > > > > > pa> in the b are> > > > > > > > ead.Your> > torta lat esthe emotir is> > > > > > > foY>urdca> > > > > > > mmencs ts atanishadanishad' s reveal that thade ade of he > > > > > formGodhyad. Youre> > > > > > > mporta lat er, w> > > > > > > whacr is> > > > > > > athemide e mind is the minahanahankarahank aal that tha > > > > > > > e aderof ade cthechit> > > > > > > as>> > >hitta (temoraar g), ahfethfe), ath adentigf,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ,> > > > > > > > > >f,> > > > > > > > > > ory,> > > > > > > > > ryory, > > > > > > > > > r- of - o- of - of time),eetimetid) . Wetid). Whilt tmat ry> s> > > > > > > > > at r> > > > > > > > > liports> > > > > > > > > lrtkno, krtkno, know idge is imphatathatathe matathe min > the or> > > > > > > > > >foeaora.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ha.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ha.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >, o not un o yound yd yound your qbouwherout " where > istenee of> > > > > > > > > tence ersta> > > > > > > > > allderstanot undyour father. He isbaar, a so, a ,on, a ba> son,> > > a> > > > > > > brofrienda> > > > > > > > > > custom, a customer, aand, a fatherider - everything. The> role> > > le> > > > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > roles, and people who seek him in different roles find him> > > playing> > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > roles - your mother finds a loving husband because she> sees a> > > > > husband> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > and simultaneously you see a loving father in him. This> is an> > > > > example> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > divinity. Since you have read the BG you may be familiar> with> > > > > Krishna> > > > > > > > > > affirming that He reveals Himself as what the devotee > wants> > > him> > > > > to> > > > > > > be.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Yes, Gurus have to be respected even before we worship > > > divinity -> > > > > for> > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > due to the bhiksha they gave us, that our eyes are op a > bit.> > > a> > > > > bit.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > > > > > > prANadAsa> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >n evepen> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Sep 4, Seat 11:32 at 11:32 AM, msbohra62 <msbohra62@ e > owen> > > Sep> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On009 at 11> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > adAsa 009 adAsa ji, > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > question is in my mind, which i> > > > > > > > > > >2009 adAsedprANadAsa please reply me that what is the> > > ultimalbu> > > > > > > > > > > the " Gr> > > > > > > > > > > the " Granth " to read and understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > th> > > > > > > > > real> > th> > > > > > > > > rea knowlll the knowledge,after gettinou whhre eou heere > you> > > > > > > > > the kel the changes about yourselfthe se agldgthe se alldge> of> > > " > > > > > > > > > > am-Tatva " > > > > > > > > > > > where ?Than where ishan wherexist ?Parr exitva ia not> atva> > > is> > > > > not a> > > > > > > > > Physical > > > > > > > > > > > substanhwar eTltva yoram-Tl >> > > > > > > > > > h Diff> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Different peoplu wiram-ordyim ? > > > > > > > > > ga>> > > > > > > > > > gsaccorgingl g accordingly, as like> > > > > > > > > > >an howShakti " l seeehim ?hip " Devi " roop,for > Budhi-chaturay> > > they> > > > > > > worship> > > > > > > > > ehi>?hip eDevi,for Dhan they worship " Laximimata " .Than >> " Ganes > > > > > thefor> > > > > > > > > Dhance of> > > > > > > > > > > alp " Lese Lmata " > > > > > > > > > Than whe > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >n understand that all th worese i " Laxiaimata " .T> > > > > > > > > > >n undeess than any > > > > > > > > > > > Lord b allse they have gi >> > > > > > > > > > > I celigion and> > > > > > > > > >nowledge which leads us to > > > > > > > > > i >> > > > > > > > > > >th c ligion andt of our self being to " Param-Gyan " (Uer> det> > > a> > > > > > > religigf . > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > eing to> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com><a > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- tn aniannt_irdiogyastr ologgroups. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > s s>> > > > > > > > > > >e> > ns@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere> > > question> > > > > is> > > > > > > bad -> > > > > > > > > > > Bohraji > > > > > > > > > > > > did not ask an obscene question...he asked a> > > philosophical> > > > > > > question> > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > important enough to be discussed in the uis> > > > > > > > > > > ds - so why are we> > > > > > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > > > > > angry which> > > > > > > > > >ing " no no, man did not create God, you should believe > > > > > > > > > > > this " ?> > > > > > > > > > > > How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects> in> > > the > > > > > > > servate > > > > > > > > > God, y> > > > > > > > > > Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a> > > different> > > > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious> > > with> > > > > our> > > > > > > > > intellect,> > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > are going in the right directiont as lonf us, by> virtue > > > of> > > > > > > sadhana> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > blessings in previous life, have received the nectar > of> > > > > > > > > Bhakti....others> > > > > > > > > > > > have not yet got it...they will (i hope).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also some here who have gone so far as to>> >> > > havat> > > > > > > maybe> > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > seers> > > > > > > > > > > > who gave us the scriptures also may havme hersolved> these> > > > > > > questions - > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of> > > > > philosophical > > > > > > > > > > > > development, it would be naive to assume that they > did> > > not go> > > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > > into> > > > > > > > > > > most> > > > > > > > > > > > philosophical and existential matters and solve it. > This> > > > > clearly> > > > > > > > > shows a> > > > > > > > > > > > lack of understanding and a lack of study of> " scriptures " > > > -> > > > > an> > > > > > > > > armchair > > > > > > > > > > > > philosopher approach. However, the latter part of> this> > > > > person's> > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot> be> > > put> > > > > into > > > > > > > > > words.> > > > > > > > > > > This> > > > > > > > > > > > does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures> (kEna> > > U.> > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > particular)> > > > > > > > > > > > and meditating, you may come to the realization that> > > there is> > > > > no > > > > > > > > > origin> > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > the Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call > > > themselves> > > > > > > > > alizatio> > > > > > > > > > > father> > > > > > > > > ly when he> > > > > > > > > > > appear> >> > > > > > > > > > > in front of them (they could speak only because of His> > > kindness> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > permission anyway), and it is the duty of the f name > to> > > name> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > child.> > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as > did> > > > > Vamana> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > Aditi> > > > > > > > > > > > and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted > > > devotees> > > > > > > indeed> > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the> one> > > > > without> > > > > > > > > origin,> > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a> > > > > fantastic> > > > > > > gold> > > > > > > > > mine > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > information, but d the gnto est oly after you the one> he> > > > > Bhagawad > > > > > > > > > gIta.> > > > > > > > > > > .> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > hari smaraNs,> > > > > > > > > > > > prANadAsa> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927@> >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the Bhaga> > > > > > > > > > > > *Dear V).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be> > > > > mindless,> > > > > > > > > otherwise> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > mi27 <gopiib927ill not leave us alone.My > >u> > > > > > > > > > > > >d " when weVinita jie> > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke > > > > > > > ofmindonasa( destruction> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > mind)....> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopiGu> > > > > > > > > > > > > *> > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > > > <st rega_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " but 'ncient_ithe mind " is also an imagination> which> > > > > comes> > > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > > > > > mind> > > > > > > > > > > >anka only " > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no > EXPERIENCE> > > of> > > > > > > THAT.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To approachnation which e to be mindless,> perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > rue.>..inita> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > " gopi_b927 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not> > > addressed2me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //Mind > > >haps nothing but identification of > the> > > self> > > > > > > with i,> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect> us....and> > > we> > > > > > > become> > > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > > Mind of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >g buma...mukta. //> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is really >ood but ''beyond the mind " is> also> > > an > > > > > > > > > imagination> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes through mind only know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > " shankar_mamta " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the> > > " mind " ....no> > > > > > > matter > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind> is> > > where> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > >how> > > > > > > > > > > > > >ha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > >.....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond th God days where> karma> > > > > ceases. So> > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of > the> > > > > self> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > i,> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing shoes...> > > > > > > > > fect us....and we become free> > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma...mukta.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always> are...sans> > > > > > > maya...sans > > > > > > > > > > > ego....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. > > > shivoham,> > > > > > > shivoham!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we > become> > > THAT /> > > > > > > TAT,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mind...including God...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B> Regards and best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Regar > > > > > > > > > > >nd best >shes,> > > > > > > > > > n ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > " msbohra62 " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest> > > > > questioohra62y> > > > > > > mind> > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years,is :-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different > " Ishwar-Devi- Devta " > > > and> > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > > > > desire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship hiu worshh " they are also getting there > > > desire> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > result> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting > desire> > > > > result.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all > and> > > what> > > > > are >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > God> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen> is> > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man > created> > > the> > > > > God> > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > God> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not> > > related> > > > > to> > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on > >> > > >subject.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ints onent_indian_ astrology@ yaho> > > > ps.com> > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>,> > > > > > > > > > > Manoj Chn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >onde > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How> can> > > we> > > > > > > > > recognize > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of> the> > > > > inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:> ancient_indian_ astrology<ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com> > > > > > > > > > <ancient_indian_ astrology% 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 > AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe> may> > > not > > > > > > > > > recogni.....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gopi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> >>> > Love Cricket? 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