Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2009 Dear yogesh ji,i am very much after this MOKSHA.Interestingly my 1st encounter(introduction) with astrolog(er)y is through K.P.It triggered my interest4sure.When i went to an astrologer 4the 1st time with my younger brother 4his sake i also gave my birth details and asked him only one question ie do i get moksha?4which he asked me another question what is moksha?ofcourse he emptied our pockets and could not answer to me.iam sorry 2say.Ofcourse he gave me a file and from then on i started on my own.But he asked me one question more that if i know astrology already4which i answered in the negative and also said i never believed in it.Ofcourse i have jup in my 10th house and mer exalted in lagna.I am also sorry2say most of his predictions to my brother are also haywire since i dont want to say wrong.I know it also depends on the understading of the particular astrologer and not the system but i have had a bad experience!!!....Love and regards,gopi. , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:>> Dear Pradeep,> You wrote that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this life...> I agree with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth.> With kind regards,> Yogesh Lajmi. > GOOD LUCK !> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2009 ||Jai Ramakrishna|| Dear Yogeshji, I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP, but is it not a speculative topic? " Proof of the pudding is on the eating " as we say, so for Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them in practical life, for example, getting married or no, progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for us? What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is getting Moksha or not. Just a humble thought... Gaurav. , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > You wrote that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this life... > I agree with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth. > With kind regards, > Yogesh Lajmi. > GOOD LUCK ! > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 2, 2009 Dear Gaurav Ji, I tend to agree with you. Only Self Realized Souls can know who is going to get "Moksha". Infact the very definition of Moksha itself is i ndispute my different people saying different things. So Moksha is best left out of astrological parlance in my opinion. Regards, -Manoj gaurav.ghosh <gaurav.ghosh Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:42:12 AM Re: Moksha... ||Jai Ramakrishna| |Dear Yogeshji,I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP, but is it not a speculative topic?"Proof of the pudding is on the eating" as we say, so for Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them in practical life, for example, getting married or no, progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for us?What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is getting Moksha or not.Just a humble thought...Gaurav.ancient_indian_ astrology, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Pradeep,> You wrote that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha. ..which,I am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this life...> I agree with you,entirely, your XIIth house significations. ..and wish to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth.> With kind regards,> Yogesh Lajmi. > GOOD LUCK !> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Respected Yogesh ji and members of the forum, I also have a thought on Moksha. According to scriptures, Moksha means freedom from cycle of birth and death.There is no proof for the same and so called spiritual person say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I agree with Gaurav Gosh that " Proof of the pudding is on the eating " There are so many theories for Moksha. According to KP " one can achieve moksha, only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth. " Sh. Yogesh ji have already said the same. According to others " Planet in 12th indicates Moksha " and so on. According to me one can attain moksha very in this life. Mosha is freedom from Karma. The Karma has no effect, bad or good,on the native. Such as Sun rises in the morning and set in the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor, king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma has no effect on him. We can see the character of Raja Janak from Ramayana. Similarly in the Kaliyuga one can attain Mokaha. Take an example of a factory owner. He has labourers. If a labourer come late, he is marked late. If he does a mistake, his confidential report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory. So according to me freedom from effect of karma is Moksha. Every one who has taken birth on this earth has to do some karma. There is no freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of the karma is moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha, and Ahankara, without any attachement. This is what the Gita has said. Regards --- On Wed, 9/2/09, gaurav.ghosh <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > gaurav.ghosh <gaurav.ghosh > Re: Moksha... > > Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:12 PM > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear Yogeshji, > I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like > asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP, > but is it not a speculative topic? > that as we say, so for > Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them > in practical life, for example, getting married or no, > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for > us? > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become > superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is > getting Moksha or not. > Just a humble thought... > Gaurav. > , > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > You wrote > that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I > am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this > life... > > I agree > with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the > sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth. > > With kind > regards, > > Yogesh > Lajmi. > > > > GOOD LUCK ! > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Friends, I did not wish to enter this thread for presence of very much learned people around, but got attarcted and couldnt help. " Moksha " is removal of all the 7 coverings from the soul, which we Hindus call as Satpa Kosha, or Sapta sharir which envelops the soul, and its merging with the Infinite, formless or Nirvikaar. In other words, when all the astral bodies encompassing the human soul, melt away, and the atma meets and merges with the Parmatma, that state is known as " Moksha " . best wishes, Bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Kursija ji,i second you in this matter.Yes we can very well attain MOKSHA in this life itself.Those who attain in this life itself are called jeevan muktas.best regards,gopi. , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Respected Yogesh ji and members of the forum,> I also have a thought on Moksha. According to scriptures, Moksha means freedom from cycle of birth and death.There is no proof for the same and so called spiritual person say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I agree with Gaurav Gosh that "Proof of the pudding is on the eating" There are so many theories for Moksha. According to KP "one can achieve moksha, only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth." Sh. Yogesh ji have already said the same. According to others "Planet in 12th indicates Moksha" and so on. According to me one can attain moksha very in this life. Mosha is freedom from Karma. The Karma has no effect, bad or good,on the native. Such as Sun rises in the morning and set in the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor, king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma has no effect on him. We can see the character of Raja Janak from Ramayana. Similarly in the Kaliyuga one can attain> Mokaha.> > Take an example of a factory owner. He has labourers. If a labourer come late, he is marked late. If he does a mistake, his confidential report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory. > > So according to me freedom from effect of karma is Moksha. Every one who has taken birth on this earth has to do some karma. There is no freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of the karma is moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha, and Ahankara, without any attachement. This is what the Gita has said.> Regards> > --- On Wed, 9/2/09, gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh wrote:> > > gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh > Re: Moksha...> > > > Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:12 PM> > ||Jai Ramakrishna||> > Dear Yogeshji,> > I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like> > asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters> > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP,> > but is it not a speculative topic?> > that as we say, so for> > Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them> > in practical life, for example, getting married or no,> > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for> > us?> > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become> > superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is> > getting Moksha or not.> > Just a humble thought...> > Gaurav.> > ,> > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Pradeep,> > > You wrote> > that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I> > am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this> > life...> > > I agree> > with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish> > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the> > sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth.> > > With kind> > regards,> > > Yogesh> > Lajmi. > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK !> > >> > > > > > > > > > ---> > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Bhaskarje, I am tempted also to add to your knowledge on 'Moksha' in a humble way: "Moksha" means Release, Absolution, Release from rebirth, Salvation, Liberation, Freedom, Solution, Emancipation, Setting question, Release from. Discharge of a debt, Solution (of a problem), Redemption, Deliverance, and Riddance. (Translation from "Bandarkar" Sanskrit Dictionary) I give below some of my 'collections' on the subject for larger interest: Moksha before Death: the Advaita School of Philosophy believes that one can have liberation from samsara even when alive. Through various moral and ethical practices, one could worship (upasana) of the Personal God, etc. These observances gradually purify his mind and make it ready for intense meditation on the Impersonal Divine Reality (Nirguna Brahman). Atmajnana destroys the ignorance (avidya) that covers the knowledge of the Reality. As soon as his ignorance is annihilated, the person will be released and becomes a Jivanmukta (one who has had Jivanmukti). The illusory body will continue to exist as long as the prarabdha karma lasts. 2. Sadyomukti Sadyomukti is another way of getting Moksha for those who believe in Jivan Mukti. As a result, his body drops off in a matter of days causing his sadyomukti. So for them, their bodies are not really there and attains sadyomukti 3. Kaivalya Moksha Sankhya School of Philosophy of Hinduism. They suggest that the soul or the spirit is Purusha (pure consciousness), and the body-mind complex is an evolved form of unconscious primordial matter known as Prakriti. Prakriti functions by borrowing consciousness from Purusha. While in human bondage, Purusha suffers mental and physical pain because of its false identification with the mind-body complex. When this happens, the devotees will experience the complete cessation of suffering and pain. Moksha After Death 1. Salokya Mukti In Salokya-Mukti the departed soul goes to Ishta-loka (the abode of the Personal God, such as the abode of Vishnu), and stays there blissfully enjoying His presence A person, who has gone through rigorous ethical and moral disciplines followed by right knowledge, right action, non-attachment, and devotional meditation on the Personal God (Vishnu), becomes fit for release or Moksha through Ishwara's loving grace. 2. Samipya or Sannidhya Mukti The departed soul enjoys the bliss of extreme proximity to the Personal God. A person, who has gone through rigorous ethical and moral disciplines followed by right knowledge, right action, non-attachment, and devotional meditation on the Personal God (Vishnu), becomes fit for release or Moksha through Ishwara's loving grace. 4. Sayujya Mukti In Sayujya-Mukti the departed soul becomes blissfully absorbed in the Personal God, non-attachment, and devotional meditation on the Personal God (Vishnu), becomes fit for release or moksha through Ishwara's loving grace. 5. Krama mukti or Avantara Mukti A person who has intensely meditated on Saguna Brahman using the sacred sound symbol OM or other prescribed methods of meditation goes to Brahma-loka after death. There he attains the knowledge of Nirguna Brahman. When the entire universe is dissolved at the end of the kalpa he becomes one with Brahman and is not born again. This is called krama-mukti or avantara-mukti. 6. Vishishtadvaita Moksha Those who believe in this school believe that Moksha means living blissfully in Vaikuntha, which is the realm of the Personal God after the death of the devotee. A person who has attained Moksha lives blissfully in Vaikuntha in a spiritual body in the presence of God. He/she acquires many divine powers such as omniscience, etc., but unlike God he/she cannot create, sustain or dissolve the world. In spite of the exalted state the devotee has to remain subservient to God. They also believe that Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga are only aids to Bhakti Yoga. One can be liberated from the bondage of samsara only through God's grace. They suggest that Bhakti Yoga practices are the only means of obtaining divine grace. 7. Purva- Mimamsa Mukti Devotees achieve Moksha through the right performance of rituals as prescribed by the Vedas. Moksha is a state devoid of the possibility of rebirth. You are free from pain and suffering. They do not consider moksha as a state of heavenly bliss. 8. Apavarga Mukti Liberation or Apavarga is a separation from all qualities. Liberation is a state beyond pleasure, happiness, pain, or any experience whatsoever. It is achieved by cultivating ethical virtues and acquiring the right knowledge of reality. After liberation there is no rebirth. Pathi (03.09.2009) A.V.Pathi, 'Oxton House', 6, Hawthorn Road,Cherry Willingham, Lincoln LN3 4JT, United Kingdom . 0044+01522+595996, bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 8:00:46 AM Re: Moksha... Dear Friends,I did not wish to enter this thread for presence of very much learnedpeople around, but got attarcted and couldnt help."Moksha" is removal of all the 7 coverings from the soul, which weHindus call as Satpa Kosha, or Sapta sharir which envelops the soul, andits merging with the Infinite, formless or Nirvikaar.In other words, when all the astral bodies encompassing the human soul,melt away, and the atma meets and merges with the Parmatma, that stateis known as "Moksha".best wishes,Bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Yes, freedom from Karma is mokshya.For that we have to see the universe wthout the earth, moon and the planets- only the sun with the stars are to be experienced. The sun also being only a star,we may say only thousands of stars are seen rsating upon themselves.Thus it is also kknown as sahasrar chakra by the yogis.Also known as Kaibalayam or aloneness in Raja yoga.It is also described as thousandas of suns rising simulataneously in the sky. Thanks, Hari Malla , " gopi_b927 " <gopi_b927 wrote: > > Dear Kursija ji, > i second you in this matter.Yes we can very well attain MOKSHA in this > life itself.Those who attain in this life itself are called jeevan > muktas. > best regards, > gopi. > , " S.C. Kursija " > <sckursija@> wrote: > > > > Respected Yogesh ji and members of the forum, > > I also have a thought on Moksha. According to scriptures, Moksha means > freedom from cycle of birth and death.There is no proof for the same and > so called spiritual person say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I > agree with Gaurav Gosh that " Proof of the pudding is on the eating " > There are so many theories for Moksha. According to KP " one can achieve > moksha, only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the > XIIth. " Sh. Yogesh ji have already said the same. According to others > " Planet in 12th indicates Moksha " and so on. According to me one can > attain moksha very in this life. Mosha is freedom from Karma. The Karma > has no effect, bad or good,on the native. Such as Sun rises in the > morning and set in the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor, > king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma > has no effect on him. We can see the character of Raja Janak from > Ramayana. Similarly in the Kaliyuga one can attain > > Mokaha. > > > > Take an example of a factory owner. He has labourers. If a labourer > come late, he is marked late. If he does a mistake, his confidential > report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect > on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the > factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or > does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the > factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory. > > > > So according to me freedom from effect of karma is Moksha. Every one > who has taken birth on this earth has to do some karma. There is no > freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of the karma is > moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha, > and Ahankara, without any attachement. This is what the Gita has said. > > Regards > > > > --- On Wed, 9/2/09, gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@ wrote: > > > > > gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@ > > > Re: Moksha... > > > > > > Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:12 PM > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > > > Dear Yogeshji, > > > I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like > > > asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters > > > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP, > > > but is it not a speculative topic? > > > that as we say, so for > > > Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them > > > in practical life, for example, getting married or no, > > > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for > > > us? > > > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become > > > superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is > > > getting Moksha or not. > > > Just a humble thought... > > > Gaurav. > > > , > > > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > You wrote > > > that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I > > > am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this > > > life... > > > > I agree > > > with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish > > > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the > > > sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth. > > > > With kind > > > regards, > > > > Yogesh > > > Lajmi. > > > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Members, In my view " Moksha " is a mental state where a person feel only good-good about all surrounding him.Free from all desires and emotions, a stable state of mind which have full control on himself. How to describe it as Astrologically,it is matter of discussion. What Ramakrishna Paramhansa have achieved in his life,what Buddha have achieved in his life, these we can say a state of Moksha. Thanks, M.S.Bohra , " gopi_b927 " <gopi_b927 wrote: > > Dear Kursija ji, > i second you in this matter.Yes we can very well attain MOKSHA in this > life itself.Those who attain in this life itself are called jeevan > muktas. > best regards, > gopi. > , " S.C. Kursija " > <sckursija@> wrote: > > > > Respected Yogesh ji and members of the forum, > > I also have a thought on Moksha. According to scriptures, Moksha means > freedom from cycle of birth and death.There is no proof for the same and > so called spiritual person say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I > agree with Gaurav Gosh that " Proof of the pudding is on the eating " > There are so many theories for Moksha. According to KP " one can achieve > moksha, only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the > XIIth. " Sh. Yogesh ji have already said the same. According to others > " Planet in 12th indicates Moksha " and so on. According to me one can > attain moksha very in this life. Mosha is freedom from Karma. The Karma > has no effect, bad or good,on the native. Such as Sun rises in the > morning and set in the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor, > king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma > has no effect on him. We can see the character of Raja Janak from > Ramayana. Similarly in the Kaliyuga one can attain > > Mokaha. > > > > Take an example of a factory owner. He has labourers. If a labourer > come late, he is marked late. If he does a mistake, his confidential > report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect > on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the > factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or > does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the > factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory. > > > > So according to me freedom from effect of karma is Moksha. Every one > who has taken birth on this earth has to do some karma. There is no > freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of the karma is > moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha, > and Ahankara, without any attachement. This is what the Gita has said. > > Regards > > > > --- On Wed, 9/2/09, gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@ wrote: > > > > > gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@ > > > Re: Moksha... > > > > > > Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:12 PM > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > > > Dear Yogeshji, > > > I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like > > > asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters > > > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP, > > > but is it not a speculative topic? > > > that as we say, so for > > > Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them > > > in practical life, for example, getting married or no, > > > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for > > > us? > > > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become > > > superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is > > > getting Moksha or not. > > > Just a humble thought... > > > Gaurav. > > > , > > > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > You wrote > > > that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha...which,I > > > am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this > > > life... > > > > I agree > > > with you,entirely,your XIIth house significations...and wish > > > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the > > > sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth. > > > > With kind > > > regards, > > > > Yogesh > > > Lajmi. > > > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Bohraji, What you have described can be the state of enlightenment. When this state is reached it requires some maintainence, a vigil, an alertness - at least initially when there is chance of some of the old attachments ( usually identity, ego ) dragging the soul back. When this state is perfected the soul regains his true identity, disassociates from the worldly attachments and wishes no more, thus gaining Moksha. Hope i catch a glimpse of such a person in my life. Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Thu, 3/9/09, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: msbohra62 <msbohra62 Re: Moksha... Date: Thursday, 3 September, 2009, 6:06 PM Dear Members,In my view "Moksha" is a mental state where a person feel only good-good about all surrounding him.Free from all desires and emotions, a stable state of mind which have full control on himself.How to describe it as Astrologically, it is matter of discussion.What Ramakrishna Paramhansa have achieved in his life,what Buddha have achieved in his life, these we can say a state of Moksha.Thanks,M.S.Bohraancient_indian_ astrology, "gopi_b927" <gopi_b927@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Kursija ji,> i second you in this matter.Yes we can very well attain MOKSHA in this> life itself.Those who attain in this life itself are called jeevan> muktas.> best regards,> gopi.> ancient_indian_ astrology, "S.C. Kursija"> <sckursija@> wrote:> >> > Respected Yogesh ji and members of the forum,> > I also have a thought on Moksha. According to scriptures, Moksha means> freedom from cycle of birth and death.There is no proof for the same and> so called spiritual person say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I> agree with Gaurav Gosh that "Proof of the pudding is on the eating"> There are so many theories for Moksha. According to KP "one can achieve> moksha, only if the sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the> XIIth." Sh. Yogesh ji have already said the same. According to others> "Planet in 12th indicates Moksha" and so on. According to me one can> attain moksha very in this life. Mosha is freedom from Karma. The Karma> has no effect, bad or good,on the native. Such as Sun rises in the> morning and set in the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor,> king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma> has no effect on him. We can see the character of Raja Janak from> Ramayana. Similarly in the Kaliyuga one can attain> > Mokaha.> >> > Take an example of a factory owner. He has labourers. If a labourer> come late, he is marked late. If he does a mistake, his confidential> report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect> on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the> factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or> does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the> factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory.> >> > So according to me freedom from effect of karma is Moksha. Every one> who has taken birth on this earth has to do some karma. There is no> freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of the karma is> moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha,> and Ahankara, without any attachement. This is what the Gita has said.> > Regards> >> > --- On Wed, 9/2/09, gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > > gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghosh@> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Moksha...> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:12 PM> > > ||Jai Ramakrishna| |> > > Dear Yogeshji,> > > I am asking you a very simple question, which I feel like> > > asking. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters> > > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & also as you added by KP,> > > but is it not a speculative topic?> > > that as we say, so for> > > Astrological Combinations to come into effect, we say them> > > in practical life, for example, getting married or no,> > > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for> > > us?> > > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become> > > superior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is> > > getting Moksha or not.> > > Just a humble thought...> > > Gaurav.> > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Pradeep,> > > > You wrote> > > that the XIIth signifies among other things,moksha. ..which,I> > > am sure you are aware that not everybody can achieve in this> > > life...> > > > I agree> > > with you,entirely, your XIIth house significations. ..and wish> > > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the> > > sublord of the VIIIth cusp,strongly signifies the XIIth.> > > > With kind> > > regards,> > > > Yogesh> > > Lajmi.> > > >> > >> > > GOOD LUCK !> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > >> > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Mehta ji,even if we come across such a person we may not recognise .......regards,gopi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Shri Pathi ji, This is a real good piece of literature coming from you. I really did not know that so many forms of Mukti existed. kind regards, Bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Gopi Ji, Wonderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. Regards, -Manoj gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM Re: Moksha... Dear Mehta ji,even if we come across such a person we may not recognise .......regards,gopi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Mehta Ji, Once you understand well that every thing in this world is not stable,every thing is changing every " Shan " than what is the substance for that you after always.Nothing !If we understand it and tune himself with the fact than we are at the state of some stable state of mind,nothing can effects our state of mind.It is state of " Chit-nivrati " ,we accept every circumstances with same state of mind. It is superficial state of mind, a state of " Moksha " . It is my little knowledge says about the " Moksha " . Th Thanks, M.S.Bohra , chiranjiv a <vchirahjiv@.iv wrote: > > Dear Bohraji, > What y at you have described can be the state of enlightenment. > > When this state is reached it requires some maintainen, a vig an alertnlertness - at least initially when there is chance of some of the old attachments ( usually identity, ego ) > dragging the soul back. > When this state is perfected the soul regains his true identity, disassociates from the worldly attachments and wishes no more, thus gaining Moksha. > >ope i ih a gl a glimpse of such a person in my life. > > Chiranjiv Mehta > > -n Thn Thu 3/9/u, 3/9/09, msbohra6...msboh...> wrot> > > > > > 62 <ohra62 <msbohra6> > Subje : [ancien [ancient_indie: Motr Re: Moksha... > T anndi n_innndiaastrolan_astrologoupahoogroups.com > Thursday, 3 September, 2009, 6:06 PM > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > In my view " Moksha " is a mental state wherson ferson good-nly good-good about unding rim.Freg him.Free from all desires and emotions, a stable state of mind which have full control on himself. > > How to describe it as Astrologically, it is matter of discussion. > > What Ramakrishna Paramhansa have achieved in his lt Buddha hudachieved ichieved in his life, tanse we catate oa state of Moksha. > > Thanks, > > M.S.Boh --- I > --ent_inncient_indian_ astrology@ gopi_b927 " <gopi_bwrote: > > ote: > > oter Dear Kursija ji, sija ji, > > i second you in n es mwe canverrwe ca attainwMOl attain MOKSHA in this > > .The itsho athose who attain in this life itself are called jeevan > > muktas. > > best regards, > > --- I > > -entindianient_iology@ astrology (AT) ps (DOT) oogroups. com,sija " > ><sckurse: > > > > : > > > > > : > > shted Yo Yogesi an Yogesh ji and members of the forum, > > > I alshought Moksha. tccordikg a. According to scriptures, Moksha mdom from ycle of brom andreof birth andre is .There isthe saoof for the samalled > > so called spiriy thaperson say that no proof of Moksha can be given. I > > agree with Gaurav Gosh f of tProof of on thdding is on the eaThere > > Thertheoriso many theha. Acfor Moksha. According to Kieve > can achieve > > mokshahe sub if the suIIIth of the VIIIth cusp,strones thegnifies thSh. Yve oge. " Sh. Ylready i have a same. said ersg toeotlanet ng to otlanen 12th in acat s Mokth indicates Moksha " and so ome one cning > attaine cn > > attain iistha very ina is flife. Mosha is freedom from Karmaha> hasarma > > hasor effeood,oad or goodSuch he native. Such as Sun risrning ahe > > mornin evenine. Hn the evening. He gives heat to every one rich or poor, > > king of beggar, materials or jeeva etc. He is doing his duty. The karma > > has no effWe can him. We acteree the character of Raja Janak from > > Ramayana. Kaliarly in the Kaliyuga on > >n> Mokin > > > M > Ta. > > > > > > Take an efactory f a fac. If aouer. He h. Ilabourers. Ifcome lourer > > come late, he If he dod late. If he does a mistake,l > > rnfidential > > report is marked. His production is counted etc. His karma have effect > > on him. But the owner is not bound by the time of the start of the > > factory or when he leaves the factory. Whether he sits in the factory or > > does not come in the factory. He is free from the duty and timing of the > > factory. He has attained moksha in relation to factory. > > > > > > So according to me freedot of k effect of. Ever is Moksha. Every one > > who has taken birth on this earte is n.o do somee is n. There isfrom t > freedom from the karma. But freedom from the effect of thesha.Ta is > > moksha.This can be attained only when we do karma without Lobha, Moha, > ra, wiAhankara,chemenut any attachement. This is what the d. > ha> Reid. > > > R > - > - gaurav/2/09, 09, gaurav/2/wrrav.ghoshghosh@ wrrav.ghosh@ wrote: > > > > > > > gaurav.ghosh gaurav.ghSubjan_nci an>ienian_ aatroloen] Re:ian_ astrology] Re: M > To:.ancie t_indion_ asient_indian_ astrolog com > > > > Da com > > > > Dateptembnesday, September PM > > > > ||J PM > > > > na| | > > >rishna| | > > > > Dear Yogeshji, > > > > I am asking you a very simple I stion, which I feel like > > > is Moksg. What is Moksha?I am aware of various parameters > > > > given by VA[Vedic Astrology] & alsoy KP, u added by KP, > > > > but is it not a speculative topi as w > > > > that as we say, so for come into effect, we say them > > > > in practical life, for example, getting married or no, > > > > progeny etc, but for Moksha, do we have any proof left for > > > > us? > > > > What I think, that its those people, whose soul has become > > > l has rior by spiritual practice or Yogis can only see, who is > > > > getting Moksha or not. > > > > Just a humble thought... > > > > Gaurav. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > >hoogroogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >radeep, > > > > > Pradeep, > > > > that thee > > > > tifies among othegnifieg amons other thin,I > > > > am sure you are aware tha you arverybody can achieve in this > > > > life this > > > > I agree > > > > withgree >ntirely, your XIIth house significations. ..and wish > > > > to add,that,as per K.P., one can achieve moksha,only if the > > > > sublord of the VIIIth rd ofstrongly signifies the XIIth. > > > > > With kind > > > > regards, > > > > > Yogesh > > > > Lajmi. > > > > > > >mi. > > > > > G > > >CK ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------------- > > > - --- > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Members, One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many years,is :- Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire result,spiritually satisfaction. Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire result and satisfy with his Allah. Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences ? Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ? Is it not in our mind only ? The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created Man ? Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. Thanks, M.S.Bohra - In , Manoj Chn <chnndran_maan_manoj wrote: > > Dear Gopi Ji, >onde funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > Regards, > -Manoj > > > > _ > > ________________________________ > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > Dear > ji, >ehta ji, > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > r. > regards, > gopi. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 3, 2009 Dear Bohraji, God, by whatever name you may wish to call him,is a necessary creation(?) of Man...simply because creation by itself is a phenomenon not understood by Man...so far...and so are many phenomenon not easily explained ...as yet... Man has to, by his nature and necessity look for a cause and it's effect...or vice-versa... Am sending alongwith my old article published in a magazine...which might indirectly answer your query... More later... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! msbohra62 <msbohra62 Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 12:24:10 AM Re: Moksha... Dear Members,One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many years,is :-Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi- Devta" and getting desire result,spiritually satisfaction.Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire result and satisfy with his Allah.Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences ?Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ?Is it not in our mind only ?The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this "Param-Satta" (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or God created Man ?Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.Thanks,M.S.Bohra- In ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chn <chnndran_maan_ manoj > wrote:>> Dear Gopi Ji,>ondefunderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > Regards,> -Manoj> > > > _> > ____________ _________ _________ __> gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> ancient_indian_ astrology> Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > Dear> ji,>ehta ji,> even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> r.> regards,> gopi.> 1 of 1 File(s) The Universal urge for.doc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Bohra ji, This question should not have come at all from a person like you. I feel sad when you say that Man created " Parmeshwar " and God is in mind only. Please read the Srimad Bhagawat Purana. regards, Bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Bohra ji, To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how much of an oxymoron that may be. God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is " god " /Moksha actually is..... Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we are in the mind, the karmic circus continues... Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the ego. Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of karma...mukta. They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego.... our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, everything is in the mind...including God... Regards and best wishes, vinita , " msbohra62 " <msbohra62 wrote: > > Dear Members, > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many years,is :- > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire result,spiritually satisfaction. > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire result and satisfy with his Allah. > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences ? > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ? > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created Man ? > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > Thanks, > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > >onde > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > Regards, > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > ________________________________ > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > Dear > > > > ji, > >ehta ji, > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > r. > > regards, > > gopi. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Bohra ji,The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created Man ?//wonderful....this is a greatest puzzle no body can solve and we can only quote scriptures.My humble opinion is scriptures/books have been written down through the ages but no one practically solved it.If at all there is anyone solved it practically can never put and be able to put in WORDS.Love and regards,gopi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Vinita ji,thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the ego.> Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> karma...mukta.//this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind only know?THATS THE PUZLE HERE......Regards,gopi. , "shankar_mamta" <shankar_mamta wrote:>> > Dear Bohra ji,> > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how much of> an oxymoron that may be.> > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is "god"/Moksha> actually is.....> > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we are> in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the ego.> Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> karma...mukta.> > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham!> > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, everything is> in the mind...including God...> > Regards and best wishes,> > vinita> > > > > > > > > , "msbohra62"> msbohra62@ wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> >> > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many> years,is :-> >> > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi-Devta" and getting desire> result,spiritually satisfaction.> >> > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire result> and satisfy with his Allah.> >> > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> >> > What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences> ?> >> > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ?> >> > Is it not in our mind only ?> >> > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created> Man ?> >> > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> >> > Thanks,> >> > M.S.Bohra> >> >> >> >> > - In , Manoj Chn> chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > >onde> > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > >> > > Regards,> > > -Manoj> > >> > >> > >> > > _> >> > >> > > ________________________________> > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha...> > >> > >> > > Dear> >> >> > > ji,> > >ehta ji,> >> >> >> >> > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > r.> > > regards,> > > gopi.> > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 God " Is " and was always there. There is no word attributed as " Created " to Him. God (Lord Vishnu for me as a Hindu ) was lying in the ksheer sagaar all alone in His " Anand " and decided one day to give this " anand " to " aneka " rather than " eka " which was " Himself " which is why He created souls from Himself. How many souls to be created , (that is the number), when to be created, and how many were created at the beginning, is secret knowledge and not accessible to us. But God always is, and does not need to be created. We would be most foolish with our pompous limited knowledge to ever think that he is a entity " Imaginary " or " Real " which We have created. Man cannot even create a kid without help of a women, Man cannot even remove his own heads headache without a external source of help like Crocin or pain reliever, though pain in own head and what puny idiots we can be to think that we have created a " imaginary entity " like " God " like those Comic characters Phantom, Mandrake and the like. Bhaskar. , " gopi_b927 " <gopi_b927 wrote: > > Dear Bohra ji, > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created > Man ?// > > wonderful....this is a greatest puzzle no body can solve and we can only > quote scriptures.My humble opinion is scriptures/books have been written > down through the ages but no one practically solved it.If at all there > is anyone solved it practically can never put and be able to put in > WORDS. > > Love and regards, > gopi. > , " msbohra62 " > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > Dear Members, > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so many > years,is :- > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire result > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the differences > ? > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God ? > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God created > Man ? > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > Thanks, > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > >onde > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > Regards, > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > ji, > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > r. > > > regards, > > > gopi. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Gopi ji, "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind only" That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! Regards, vinita , "gopi_b927" <gopi_b927 wrote:>> Dear Vinita ji,> thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> ego.> > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > karma...mukta.//> > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which> comes through mind only know?> THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > Regards,> gopi.> > , "shankar_mamta"> shankar_mamta@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Bohra ji,> >> > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how much> of> > an oxymoron that may be.> >> > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is "god"/Moksha> > actually is.....> >> > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> are> > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> >> > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> ego.> > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > karma...mukta.> >> > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> >> > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham!> >> > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, everything> is> > in the mind...including God...> >> > Regards and best wishes,> >> > vinita> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "msbohra62"> > msbohra62@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Members,> > >> > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> many> > years,is :-> > >> > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi-Devta" and getting desire> > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > >> > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> result> > and satisfy with his Allah.> > >> > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > >> > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> differences> > ?> > >> > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and God> ?> > >> > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > >> > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God> created> > Man ?> > >> > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > >> > > Thanks,> > >> > > M.S.Bohra> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > - In , Manoj Chn> > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > >onde> > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > > -Manoj> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > _> > >> > > >> > > > ________________________________> > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha...> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear> > >> > >> > > > ji,> > > >ehta ji,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > r.> > > > regards,> > > > gopi.> > > >> > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Vinita ji,yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said"when we are alone we are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction of mind)....Best regards,gopi. , "shankar_mamta" <shankar_mamta wrote:>> > Dear Gopi ji,> > "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind> only"> > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> > To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > Regards,> > vinita> > > > > , "gopi_b927"> gopi_b927@ wrote:> >> > Dear Vinita ji,> > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> >> > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > ego.> > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > karma...mukta.//> >> > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination> which> > comes through mind only know?> > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> >> > Regards,> > gopi.> >> > , "shankar_mamta"> > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Bohra ji,> > >> > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how> much> > of> > > an oxymoron that may be.> > >> > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> "god"/Moksha> > > actually is.....> > >> > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> > are> > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > >> > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > ego.> > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > karma...mukta.> > >> > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > >> > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham!> > >> > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> everything> > is> > > in the mind...including God...> > >> > > Regards and best wishes,> > >> > > vinita> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "msbohra62"> > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Members,> > > >> > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> > many> > > years,is :-> > > >> > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi-Devta" and getting desire> > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > >> > > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> > result> > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > >> > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > >> > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> > differences> > > ?> > > >> > > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> God> > ?> > > >> > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > >> > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > "Param-Satta"(Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God> > created> > > Man ?> > > >> > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > > >> > > > Thanks,> > > >> > > > M.S.Bohra> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > - In , Manoj Chn> > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > >onde> > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > > -Manoj> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > _> > > >> > > > >> > > > > ________________________________> > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear> > > >> > > >> > > > > ji,> > > > >ehta ji,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > > r.> > > > > regards,> > > > > gopi.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear Members, Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohraji did not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which is important enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we getting angry and saying " no no, man did not create God, you should believe this " ? How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service of Bhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spiritual level...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, we are going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana and blessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....others have not yet got it...they will (i hope). There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seers who gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - this is patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophical development, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into most philosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows a lack of understanding and a lack of study of " scriptures " - an armchair philosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement is partially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. This does not mean that all questions cannot be answered. By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular) and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin of the Para-tatva...however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the father of God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appeared in front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness and permission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child. Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditi and Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed have the pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, as their child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine of information, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. . hari smaraNs, prANadAsa On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 wrote: > > > *Dear Vinita ji, > yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the > mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said " when we are alone we > are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destruction of > mind).... > Best regards, > gopi. > * > , " shankar_mamta " > <shankar_mamta wrote: > > > > > > Dear Gopi ji, > > > > " but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination which comes through mind > > only " > > > > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT. > > > > To approach " God " we have to be mindless, perhaps! > > > > Regards, > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > , " gopi_b927 " > > gopi_b927@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinita ji, > > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me. > > > > > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > ego. > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > karma...mukta.// > > > > > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind " is also an imagination > > which > > > comes through mind only know? > > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE...... > > > > > > Regards, > > > gopi. > > > > > > , " shankar_mamta " > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bohra ji, > > > > > > > > To my " mind " , moksha is going beyond the " mind " ....no matter how > > much > > > of > > > > an oxymoron that may be. > > > > > > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is > > " god " /Moksha > > > > actually is..... > > > > > > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we > > > are > > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues... > > > > > > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the > > > ego. > > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of > > > > karma...mukta. > > > > > > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego.... > > > > > > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand... shivoham, shivoham! > > > > > > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT, > > everything > > > is > > > > in the mind...including God... > > > > > > > > Regards and best wishes, > > > > > > > > vinita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " msbohra62 " > > > > msbohra62@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so > > > many > > > > years,is :- > > > > > > > > > > Hindu worship his different " Ishwar-Devi-Devta " and getting desire > > > > result,spiritually satisfaction. > > > > > > > > > > Muslims worship his " Allah " they are also getting there desire > > > result > > > > and satisfy with his Allah. > > > > > > > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result. > > > > > > > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the > > > differences > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Than what is the " ultimate-fact " ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and > > God > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Is it not in our mind only ? > > > > > > > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this > > > > " Param-Satta " (Ishwar,Allah,God,etc;).Man created the God or God > > > created > > > > Man ? > > > > > > > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology > > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > M.S.Bohra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In , Manoj Chn > > > > chnndran_maan_manoj@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji, > > > > > >onde > > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that > > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM > > > > > > [ancient_indian_astroloMoksha... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ji, > > > > > >ehta ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni..... > > > > > > r. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > gopi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 4, 2009 Dear All, Animated discussions are very good, if it takes us some where. If it is about Jyotish, we can argue (or discuss), prove, verify and move on. We have entered a different domain with Moksha. Let me ask every one a question: Will any one ever discuss their intimate moments with their spouses/better half openly in Public? Ofcourse not. That relationship is very intimate and personal. Similarly each of our relationships with God is intimate and Personal. Even if some of us have had intimate moments of contact with God, it cannot be discussed in public. My humble suggestion is, let us leave this topic and move on to more mundane ones, before tempers become high and moderators have to disallow/edit emails etc. Regards, -Manoj s s <freemorons Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 5:40:33 AM Re: Moksha... Dear Members,Mocking or repudiating members who asked a sincere question is bad - Bohrajidid not ask an obscene question...he asked a philosophical question which isimportant enough to be discussed in the upanishads - so why are we gettingangry and saying "no no, man did not create God, you should believe this"?How many of us have sincerely utilized our intellects in the service ofBhagawan and not just our hearts? Each one of us in a different spirituallevel...but as long as we are all spiritually curious with our intellect, weare going in the right direction. Some of us, by virtue of sadhana andblessings in previous life, have received the nectar of Bhakti....othershave not yet got it...they will (i hope).There are also some here who have gone so far as to say that maybe our seerswho gave us the scriptures also may have not solved these questions - thisis patently wrong. In the several thousand years of philosophicaldevelopment, it would be naive to assume that they did not go deep into mostphilosophical and existential matters and solve it. This clearly shows alack of understanding and a lack of study of "scriptures" - an armchairphilosopher approach. However, the latter part of this person's statement ispartially correct - the spiritual experience cannot be put into words. Thisdoes not mean that all questions cannot be answered.By the way, Bohraji, upon reading these scriptures (kEna U. in particular)and meditating, you may come to the realization that there is no origin ofthe Para-tatva.. .however, some sages lovingly call themselves as the fatherof God, because they gave him different names spontaneously when he appearedin front of them (they could speak only because of His kindness andpermission anyway), and it is the duty of the father to name the child.Krishna appeared to be born to 2 sets of parents - as did Vamana to Aditiand Kaashyapa etc...in such instances, these exalted devotees indeed havethe pride of calling the greatest of the great, the one without origin, astheir child. Bhaskarji is right, the Bhagawatam is a fantastic gold mine ofinformation, but delve into it only after you digest the Bhagawad gIta. .hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, gopi_b927 <gopi_b927 > wrote:>>> *Dear Vinita ji,> yes you are right.Cent percent agreed.We should be mindless, otherwise the> mind(culprit) will not leave us alone.My Gurudev said"when we are alone we> are with GOD''.MAHARSHI RAMANA also spoke of manonasa(destructio n of> mind).....> Best regards,> gopi.> *> ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> <shankar_mamta@ ...> wrote:> >> >> > Dear Gopi ji,> >> > "but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination which comes through mind> > only"> >> > That is very true....so long as we have no EXPERIENCE of THAT.> >> > To approach "God" we have to be mindless, perhaps! > >> > Regards,> >> > vinita> >> >> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "gopi_b927"> > gopi_b927@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Vinita ji,> > > thank you 4the nice post though it is not addressed2me.> > >> > > //Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta. //> > >> > > this is really good but ''beyond the mind" is also an imagination> > which> > > comes through mind only know?> > > THATS THE PUZLE HERE......> > >> > > Regards,> > > gopi..> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "shankar_mamta"> > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bohra ji,> > > >> > > > To my "mind", moksha is going beyond the "mind"....no matter how> > much> > > of> > > > an oxymoron that may be.> > > >> > > > God may be in the mind...but beyond the mind is where is> > "god"/Moksha> > > > actually is.....> > > >> > > > Needless to say beyond the mind is where karma ceases. So long as we> > > are> > > > in the mind, the karmic circus continues...> > > >> > > > Mind is perhaps nothing but identification of the self with i, the> > > ego.> > > > Once ego vanishes nothing should affect us....and we become free of> > > > karma...mukta.> > > >> > > > They say that that is what we always are...sans maya...sans ego....> > > >> > > > our true roopa always is....chidanand. .. shivoham, shivoham!> > > >> > > > But i totally agree with u that till we become THAT / TAT,> > everything> > > is> > > > in the mind...including God...> > > >> > > > Regards and best wishes,> > > >> > > > vinita> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "msbohra62"> > > > msbohra62@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Members,> > > > >> > > > > One question for all,it is the biggest question in my mind for so> > > many> > > > years,is :-> > > > >> > > > > Hindu worship his different "Ishwar-Devi- Devta" and getting desire> > > > result,spiritually satisfaction.> > > > >> > > > > Muslims worship his "Allah" they are also getting there desire> > > result> > > > and satisfy with his Allah.> > > > >> > > > > Christian's worship his god and getting desire result.> > > > >> > > > > What are the common factors in above all and what are the> > > differences> > > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Than what is the "ultimate-fact" ?Where is the Ishwar,Allah and> > God> > > ?> > > > >> > > > > Is it not in our mind only ?> > > > >> > > > > The biggest creation or invention of Humen is this> > > > "Param-Satta" (Ishwar,Allah, God,etc;) .Man created the God or God> > > created> > > > Man ?> > > > >> > > > > Many times we discussed others topics not related to Astrology> > > > directly,please share your thoughts on this subject.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > M.S.Bohra> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > - In ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chn> > > > chnndran_maan_ manoj@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Gopi Ji,> > > > > >onde> > > > > funderful thoughts, simple and true !!! How can we recognize that> > > > which we are not? Outside is a reflection of the inside.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > -Manoj> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > _> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > gopi_b927 <gopi_b92 To:.>> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:47:33 AM> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astroloMoksha. ..> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > ji,> > > > > >ehta ji,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > even if we s suca aoss s ph a n weomawe may not recogni.....> > > > > > r.> > > > > > regards,> > > > > > gopi.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
