Date of Mahabharata

January 8, 2009

Let me quote from Burgess :

After he lists out various works on the Surya siddhanta, he goes on to say :

" In short, there was nothing (i.e. no work – kishore) in existence which

showed the world how much and how little the Hindus know of astronomy, as

also their mode of presenting the subject in its totality, the intermixture

in their sciences of old ideas with new, of astronomy with astrology, of

observations and mathematical deductions with arbitrary theory, mythology,

cosmogony and pure imagination " (hence, he has taken up the work of

translation ! )

January 8, 2009

Dear Vinay ji, ==>I hope Sunil jee will illumine my dark mind about updating

Suryasiddhanta, esp because Burgess deliberately omitted from the

original text the 22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara needed for updating

Suryasiddhanta. <== I wonder - can't we avoid sarcasm?! Many of the group members are very very knowledgeable in various fields - and none is there with the supreme authority of every knowledge. Everyone is unique in their own way and should be respected for their knowledge and accomplishments. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "vinayjhaa16" <vinayjhaa16 wrote:>> @Sunil jee :"Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars> whether all of them have heard about the rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato> Gati" or not. You may be in for a big surprise."> > I had said "I may not be aware of "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati", but all> those institutions and individuals are also ignorant of these things> who accept me as an authority in these matters".> > Sunil jee missed the irony in my comment, because he thinks "Ankaanaam> Vaamato Gati" to be a great secret. Every student of Jyotisha at any> Sanskrit university knows it. I had hoped Sunil jee would pay> attention to his language. But I am now really surprized at him and> his interpretation of ancient texts. > > Sunil jee also says :"I understand that Suryasiddhanta expects us to> update the astronomical data from time to time."> > I hope Sunil jee will illumine my dark mind about updating> Suryasiddhanta, esp because Burgess deliberately omitted from the> original text the 22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara needed for updating> Suryasiddhanta. No westernized scholar could ever understand or> translate those verses. I request Sunil jee to help me in understand> these 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional> publishers are still not ready to omit them. > > All modern commentators followed Burgess, Stokingwoode and Wilkinson> in neglecting Suryasiddhantic Tables, just because they failed to> understand the Suryasiddhantic formulas used to construct these> tables. No available commentary mentions these ancient tables, which> are still used by a majority of traditional Hindu almanac (panchanga)> makers. I request Sunil jee to tell me the name of these ancient> Suryasiddhantic Tables, which are still alive but are famous in some> other name.> > The "authorities" I cited were not my admirers, but had to accept my> views after a high court verdict which compelled the Vice Chancellor> to organize shaastraartha for three days. But now, I learn from Sunil> jee that all of them, including me, are in for a big surprize for not> knowing the first things a student learns in a Sanskrit university.> Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati cannot be whimsically used to deduce whatever> one wants to. Sunil jee's notions of Time Cycles are contrary to the> views of all ancient astrological/astronomical and Puranic texts of> India. I have already explained the meaning of 12000 divine years> being equal to 4320000 human years in one of my recent posts, but> Sunil jee is sticking to his wrong views. > > Hence, I invite him to teach me the ancient Tantra of Jyotisha which> is needed for constructing and updating Suryasiddhantic and other> tables. Please name that Tantra (Suryasiddhantic Tables). Those> ancient tables were called Tantra, and the mechanisms of constructing> these tables are known only to a few. Shaastraartha presupposes a> thorough study of shaastras. Come on Sunil jee, please illumine my> dark mind about the technique of ancient Indian astrology/astronomy.> Tantra is 'technique' ; show me the technique of those Suryasiddhantic> tables which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own incompetence> in explaining them.> > -VJ> ==================== ==================== > , Sunil Bhattacharjya> sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> >> > Dear Vinayji,> > > > Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars whether all of> them have heard about the rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati" or not. You> may be in for a big surprise.> > > > According to the Padma Purana the Bhagavad Purana is the highest and> most authoritative among the Puranas. Bhagavad Purana treated the> subject of Yuga classification in short but there is no ambiguity in> its statements. Vishnu Purana supplements the same.> > > > As regards the Aryabhatiya I had the good fortune that a friend of> mine in USA visited the India--Library in London and got a photocopy> of Bhau Daji's paper on Aryabhatiya and he was very kind to pass on a> copy of the same to me. I read Burgess's translation of the> Suryasiddhanta and would like to read yours work on that too. I> believe that Suryasiddhanta was composed by Mayasura, who was from> Pragjyotishpur, the kingdom of Narakasura. I understand that> Suryasiddhanta expects us to update the astronomical data from time to> time and I hope you paid attention to this area. My forays into> Aryabhatiya and Suryasiddhanta were more for historical studies than> for Astrology. > > > > Regards,> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@> > wrote:> > vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@> > Re: Date of Mahabharata> > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:28 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil jee said : "Those who are not aware of the rule> "Ankaanaam> > > > Vaamato Gati" interprets it to be 4 to 3 to 2 to 1"> > > > > > > > I may not be aware of "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati", but all those> > > > institutions and in dividuals are also ignorant of these things who> > > > accept me as an authority in these matters : cf.> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay+Jha> > > > > > > > Sunil jee is misinterpreting classical theory of time cycles. Most of> > > > the Puranas give only passing references to such things, excepting> > > > Narada Purana. Since Sunil jee is genuinely interested in this topic,> > > > I request him to read Narada Purana and esp Suryasiddhanta first of> > > > all, which deal with this topic most clearly and extensively.> > > > Aryabhatiya is the only ancient text which gives a different scale of> > > > yugas, but that was one of the chief the reasons why Aryabhatiya was> > > > rejected by mainstream scholars of Vedic-Puranic tradition.> > > > > > > > -VJ> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya> > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Vinayji,> > > > > > > > > > I have not misquoted Vishnu puran. What I say is corroborated by> > > > Bhagavat Puran also. Bhagavat puran gives the ratio of> > > > Satya:Treta: Dwapara:Kaliyuga as 4:3:2:1 Those who are not aware of the> > > > rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati" interprets it to be 4 to3 to 2 to1> > > > whereas it is 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 The concept of the Sandhi kala is given> > > > in the Bhagavat purana. Vishnu Purana gives one particular number> > > > dividing which by another particular number one has to arrive at the> > > > span of the Kali yuga. This figure comes out to be 4800 years. At the> > > > moment I do not have immediate acces to the relevant books. If you are> > > > really not able to locate in these puranas I shall surely take an> > > > extra effort to provide them to you.> > > > > > > > > > Many scholars in the past took the wrong ratio and arrived at the> > > > span of the Kaliyuga as 1200 years and then found that the Kaliyuga> > > > should have been over in 3102 - 1200 = 1902 BCE ie before the birth of> > > > Lord Buddha. But Lord Buddha has been accepted as an Avatara in the> > > > Kaliyuga. They could not solve this discrepancy and that is why they> > > > invented the concept that this figure of 1200 should be multiplied by> > > > 360 to arrive at the figure of 1200 X 360 = 432,000 years for> > > > Kaliyuga, saying that 1200 years refers to Divyavarsha, which must be> > > > multiplied by 360 to arrive at the human years.> > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:08 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had earlier stated that a mahayuga lasts for 12000 divine years> > > > > which is equal to 432000 human years, according to all ancient> > > > > sources, and Kaliyuga is its 10th part. Aryabhatiya is a sole> > > > > exception, which gives a higher propotion to Kaliyuga. Vishnu Purana> > > > > is being misquoted by Sunil jee (take my comments positively, and show> > > > > me the shloka, then I will give more tangible proofs to the contrary).> > > > > > > > > > Some NRIs are also propagating a theory of Dvapar yuga at present.> > > > > They are too much impressed with present day material progress to> > > > > value ancient ideas. If the ancient time-cycle is wrong, then one must> > > > > drop the very notion of such yugas and become completely modernized.> > > > > Why tamper with ancient idesa?> > > > > > > > > > -VJ> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"> > > > > <rajiventerprises@ ...> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sunil ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Acceptance of the current> > > > > > Yuga as Dwapara Yuga.> > > > > >> > > > > > regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > >> > > > >> >>

January 8, 2009

Dear Kishore ji,

" 4. It

is Pandit Satyavrata Samasrami who had showed that Vedic seers had knowledge of

motions of planets – at least five and the causes of solar and lunar eclipses.

It is very reasonably accepted that a

knowledge of solstice and equinox points existed on the part of Vedic authors. "

Could you point to some references to equinoxes in early literature? The only

one I knew of is from the story of Dhruva in Vishnu Purana where the time for

the shift to complete a full circle is approximated as 26000 years.

January 8, 2009

Dear Chandrahariji,

Namaste,

Nice to see you in this forum. It is quite sometime since we corresponded.

Pandit Samanta Chandrasekhar gave importance to the 12th century text Siddhanta Siromani. What do you think of this work from the point of view of the Beeja corrections?

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

January 9, 2009

Dear all,

Learned member Shri. Vinayji was introduced to the groups on jan 4,

2009 at 11.50 PM by Sreenadhji. So I am taking the place as Delhi.

Anaalyzing the chart at that time- Lagna rising was Kanya, LL mercury

in 5th with 4th and 7th lord Jupiter is very good rajayoga. But

Jupiter debilitated and yuti rahu has created the effect of Guru-

chandala yoga, which is responsible for this confusion. Further,

mercury gets debilitated in Navamsa, but it is also in pushkara amsa,

so this is only a temporary problem.

I think by Jan 12, when mercury becomes vakri, all this issue will

end and the groups will return to normal.

Regards,

bhagavathi

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Namaste Vinayji,

>

> The plain meaning of what you said is that you are ignorant and

your admires- scholars must be so too. My plain response was that you

will be surprised if you check with them as you will find they are

not ignorant of that rule. It a plain reply to a plain

interpretation of what you wrote. It was only in a later mail you

said that I misunderstood your sarcastic statement. Hope this

clarifies.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: Date of Mahabharata

>

> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:38 AM

I did not insult anyone. Sunil jee had remarked, innocently, at many

> universities which support me ( " admirer-scholars " ) by saying : " You

> may be in for a big surprise. " He supposed professors of Jyotisha to

> be ignorant of elementary things like " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " .

>

> Many scientists believe that pandits belong to paleolithic age. I

know

> Sunil jee is a good person. I have no complaint against him.

>

> -VJ

> ===== ======== ===========

>

January 9, 2009

Dear friend,

I have not studied Siddhanta Siromani and Siddhanta darpana on the

aspect of precision of Bija. But Indian tradition as I know had the

practice of prescribing very precise bijas as may be noted from the

following aspects:

1. Aryabhatiya was a revision of Aryardharatrasiddhanta and the

precision of Aryabhatiya is a mystery - Indian Mystery is the name Dukes

(US Professor of physics/authority on history of astronomy) gave to an

article on the precision seen in Aryabhatiya.

2. In Kerala and elsewhere the Vaghbhava corrections got introduced by

Haridatta and it gave very precise computation of eclipses and planets.

3. Around 1450 Drgganita of Paramesvara also revised planetary elements.

In between there are other names like Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,

Vatesvara, Bhaskara-II - all of them revised the earlier texts to match

with observations. This was a necessity in view of the small error in

mean motions introduced by the zero longituide Kaliyugadi assumption.

After Paramesvara in Kerala, Nilakantha, Achyuta and others revised the

system for accuracy. In Maharashtra Ketakar used European elements to

make new tables that gave more precise results.

Samanta Chandrasekhara work is too big and needs lot of efforts to

understand as to how he achieved more accuracy, whether he used European

data to create computational methods and to verify them (Like Ketakar

and others). etc

chandra hari

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrahariji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> Nice to see you in this forum. It is quite sometime since we

corresponded.

>

> Pandit Samanta Chandrasekhar gave importance to the 12th century text

Siddhanta Siromani. What do you think of this work from the point of

view of the Beeja corrections?

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote:

>

> chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18

> Re: Date of Mahabharata

>

> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 3:01 AM

>

It may be noted:

> 1. Burgess himself was a great scholar and astronomer and he has

demonstrated his interpretations with computations in his book and such

a good work has not appeared again even after 100s of years.

> 2. Burgess had the proven competence to understand the relevance few

verses (21 or 22) intended for Bijakriya found in certain manuscripts

known since the time of Ranganatha who wrote a commentary on the text in

16th century.

> 3. Such an appendix was not known to Kerala astronomical tradition

where the Vaghbhava correction got introduced.

> 4. Appendix as above for Bijakriya was not known during the times of

Varaha, Aryabhata or Brahmagupta, Vatesvara, Munjala etc. These great

astronomers have not discussed the Bija verses seen in some manuscripts

of Suryasiddhanta.

> 5. Great astronomer Paramesvara of 15th century who wrote a commentary

on Suryasiddhanta and also created a new Ganita, Drgganitam has not

discussed the efficacy of any Bija said in Suryasiddhanta.

> Had those Bija verses been original subsequent astronomers would have

discussed, tested and improved those computations during the 1000 years

that elapsed between Varahamihira and Ranganatha.

> All thoses verses appear after the Upasamharam. Why should the great

genius who authored Suryasiddhanta leave some subject matter as few

orphaned verses outside the text? The system of Appendices were

prevalent in those days? ok. If yes, what kind of subject matter is

presented as an appendix?

> If Bija kriya formed part of original text why the great genius (The

so called Asura Rishi Mayan) did not incorporate that into the

astronomical theory of his text?

> chandra harii

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Vinay Jha

<vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > @ Sunil jee :

> >

> > I made neither a request nor a challenge, but my language might have

appeared to be equivocal, which was in a response to your language.

> >

> > You are well versed in both science and ancient texts. If you do not

mind, you can take my mail to be both a request as well as a challenge ;

please do not feel offended. My aim is not to engage you in a wordy

duel, it is foolish and will waste my time as well as yours. I want you

to devote some time to the questions I have put forth. If you find

proper answers, both you and the world will get the benefit. If you do

not know the answer, it will not belittle you in the least, because the

questions I have put forth were beyond the intellectual capabilities of

so-called " experts " like Burgess (22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara ... I

request Sunil jee to help me in understand these

> > 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional

publishers are

> > still not ready to omit them. ......... show me the technique of

those Suryasiddhantic tables

> > which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own incompetence in

explaining

> > them).

> >

> > If you get the meaning of 22 shlokas about beeja-samskara in SS, I

shall be obliged to you, because I want to get the views of every

knowledgeable persons about the meaning of these shlokas.

> >

> > As for the second question (SS tables, I am not speaking of the

Siamese SS tables of 7th century AD presently in France) , try to find

the meaning of my obscure passage.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, January 8, 2009 1:01:19 AM

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> >

> > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > This is a request or challenge?

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:53 AM

> >

> > @Sunil jee : " Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars

> >

> > whether all of them have heard about the rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato

> >

> > Gati " or not. You may be in for a big surprise. "

> >

> > I had said " I may not be aware of " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " , but all

> >

> > those institutions and individuals are also ignorant of these things

> >

> > who accept me as an authority in these matters " .

> >

> > Sunil jee missed the irony in my comment, because he thinks

" Ankaanaam

> >

> > Vaamato Gati " to be a great secret. Every student of Jyotisha at any

> >

> > Sanskrit university knows it. I had hoped Sunil jee would pay

> >

> > attention to his language. But I am now really surprized at him and

> >

> > his interpretation of ancient texts.

> >

> > Sunil jee also says : " I understand that Suryasiddhanta expects us to

> >

> > update the astronomical data from time to time. "

> >

> > I hope Sunil jee will illumine my dark mind about updating

> >

> > Suryasiddhanta, esp because Burgess deliberately omitted from the

> >

> > original text the 22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara needed for updating

> >

> > Suryasiddhanta. No westernized scholar could ever understand or

> >

> > translate those verses. I request Sunil jee to help me in understand

> >

> > these 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional

> >

> > publishers are still not ready to omit them.

> >

> > All modern commentators followed Burgess, Stokingwoode and Wilkinson

> >

> > in neglecting Suryasiddhantic Tables, just because they failed to

> >

> > understand the Suryasiddhantic formulas used to construct these

> >

> > tables. No available commentary mentions these ancient tables, which

> >

> > are still used by a majority of traditional Hindu almanac

(panchanga)

> >

> > makers. I request Sunil jee to tell me the name of these ancient

> >

> > Suryasiddhantic Tables, which are still alive but are famous in some

> >

> > other name.

> >

> > The " authorities " I cited were not my admirers, but had to accept my

> >

> > views after a high court verdict which compelled the Vice Chancellor

> >

> > to organize shaastraartha for three days. But now, I learn from

Sunil

> >

> > jee that all of them, including me, are in for a big surprize for

not

> >

> > knowing the first things a student learns in a Sanskrit university.

> >

> > Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati cannot be whimsically used to deduce whatever

> >

> > one wants to. Sunil jee's notions of Time Cycles are contrary to the

> >

> > views of all ancient astrological/ astronomical and Puranic texts of

> >

> > India. I have already explained the meaning of 12000 divine years

> >

> > being equal to 4320000 human years in one of my recent posts, but

> >

> > Sunil jee is sticking to his wrong views.

> >

> > Hence, I invite him to teach me the ancient Tantra of Jyotisha which

> >

> > is needed for constructing and updating Suryasiddhantic and other

> >

> > tables. Please name that Tantra (Suryasiddhantic Tables). Those

> >

> > ancient tables were called Tantra, and the mechanisms of

constructing

> >

> > these tables are known only to a few. Shaastraartha presupposes a

> >

> > thorough study of shaastras. Come on Sunil jee, please illumine my

> >

> > dark mind about the technique of ancient Indian astrology/astronomy

..

> >

> > Tantra is 'technique' ; show me the technique of those

Suryasiddhantic

> >

> > tables which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own

incompetence

> >

> > in explaining them.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ============ ======== ============ ========

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

> >

> > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars whether all of

> >

> > them have heard about the rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " or not. You

> >

> > may be in for a big surprise.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > According to the Padma Purana the Bhagavad Purana is the highest

and

> >

> > most authoritative among the Puranas. Bhagavad Purana treated the

> >

> > subject of Yuga classification in short but there is no ambiguity in

> >

> > its statements. Vishnu Purana supplements the same.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > As regards the Aryabhatiya I had the good fortune that a friend of

> >

> > mine in USA visited the India--Library in London and got a photocopy

> >

> > of Bhau Daji's paper on Aryabhatiya and he was very kind to pass on

a

> >

> > copy of the same to me. I read Burgess's translation of the

> >

> > Suryasiddhanta and would like to read yours work on that too. I

> >

> > believe that Suryasiddhanta was composed by Mayasura, who was from

> >

> > Pragjyotishpur, the kingdom of Narakasura. I understand that

> >

> > Suryasiddhanta expects us to update the astronomical data from time

to

> >

> > time and I hope you paid attention to this area. My forays into

> >

> > Aryabhatiya and Suryasiddhanta were more for historical studies than

> >

> > for Astrology.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> >

> > > wrote:

> >

> > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> >

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> >

> > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:28 PM

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunil jee said : " Those who are not aware of the rule

> >

> > " Ankaanaam

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Vaamato Gati " interprets it to be 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 "

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I may not be aware of " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " , but all those

> >

> > >

> >

> > > institutions and in dividuals are also ignorant of these things

who

> >

> > >

> >

> > > accept me as an authority in these matters : cf.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay+Jha

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunil jee is misinterpreting classical theory of time cycles. Most

of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > the Puranas give only passing references to such things, excepting

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Narada Purana. Since Sunil jee is genuinely interested in this

topic,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I request him to read Narada Purana and esp Suryasiddhanta first

of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > all, which deal with this topic most clearly and extensively.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Aryabhatiya is the only ancient text which gives a different scale

of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > yugas, but that was one of the chief the reasons why Aryabhatiya

was

> >

> > >

> >

> > > rejected by mainstream scholars of Vedic-Puranic tradition.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > -VJ

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > I have not misquoted Vishnu puran. What I say is corroborated by

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Bhagavat Puran also. Bhagavat puran gives the ratio of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Satya:Treta: Dwapara:Kaliyuga as 4:3:2:1 Those who are not aware

of the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " interprets it to be 4 to3 to 2 to1

> >

> > >

> >

> > > whereas it is 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 The concept of the Sandhi kala is

given

> >

> > >

> >

> > > in the Bhagavat purana. Vishnu Purana gives one particular number

> >

> > >

> >

> > > dividing which by another particular number one has to arrive at

the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > span of the Kali yuga. This figure comes out to be 4800 years. At

the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > moment I do not have immediate acces to the relevant books. If you

are

> >

> > >

> >

> > > really not able to locate in these puranas I shall surely take an

> >

> > >

> >

> > > extra effort to provide them to you.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Many scholars in the past took the wrong ratio and arrived at

the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > span of the Kaliyuga as 1200 years and then found that the

Kaliyuga

> >

> > >

> >

> > > should have been over in 3102 - 1200 = 1902 BCE ie before the

birth of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Lord Buddha. But Lord Buddha has been accepted as an Avatara in

the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Kaliyuga. They could not solve this discrepancy and that is why

they

> >

> > >

> >

> > > invented the concept that this figure of 1200 should be multiplied

by

> >

> > >

> >

> > > 360 to arrive at the figure of 1200 X 360 = 432,000 years for

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Kaliyuga, saying that 1200 years refers to Divyavarsha, which must

be

> >

> > >

> >

> > > multiplied by 360 to arrive at the human years.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:08 AM

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > I had earlier stated that a mahayuga lasts for 12000 divine

years

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > which is equal to 432000 human years, according to all ancient

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > sources, and Kaliyuga is its 10th part. Aryabhatiya is a sole

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > exception, which gives a higher propotion to Kaliyuga. Vishnu

Purana

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > is being misquoted by Sunil jee (take my comments positively,

and show

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > me the shloka, then I will give more tangible proofs to the

contrary).

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Some NRIs are also propagating a theory of Dvapar yuga at

present.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > They are too much impressed with present day material progress

to

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > value ancient ideas. If the ancient time-cycle is wrong, then

one must

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > drop the very notion of such yugas and become completely

modernized.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Why tamper with ancient idesa?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > -VJ

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar "

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > <rajiventerprises@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Dear Sunil ji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Acceptance of the

current

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Yuga as Dwapara Yuga.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

>

January 9, 2009

Dear friends,

This is not the first time that the group is witnessing a smoky Comet.

One or the other guy seeking perpetuation of his name enters the group

and tries to sell his product intellectually or materially. Anyone to

present a new commentary of Suryasiddhanta, there are prescribed methods

for that in these times. He should have a systematic study to present

before the world as Burgess did when he translated the text into

English. It was a great service to Indian astronomy. One fine morning

someone cannot enter the scientific world and declare that Burgess knew

nothing and a new prophet is born with some tables of Suryasiddhanta.

Anyone who is having some basic training in science won't attempt such

unscrupulous claims.

See the proceedings of Celebrating Monsoon 2007 available on the web.

Where is the paper of Vinay Jha? What did he present in that conference?

Why such works are not available on web site?

What is this KSD Darbhanga University? What are the credentials of its

Vice Chancellor? Who all are his other admirers? Admirers for what?

Has he written a single paragrapha worth any piece of wisdom? See the

Krishna horoscope he has published. Anyone can make any wild claims like

that. Only frauds do such things. He claims to be a Brahmachari. Who

knows what is the definition of Brahmachari in " his Darbhanga school " ?

Any man who says that Burgess had no understanding of Suryasiddhanta

knows nothing of Suryasiddhanta and Indian astronomy. Note his other

comments on Pancasiddhantika. Anyone who understands Panchasiddhantika

will fall at the feet of Varahamihira - in fact the whole scientific

world prostrate before him for the great work.

And you people expect others to maintain diplomacy before the frauds

trying to sell nonsense? Brahmachari or Ravan or Kamsan or Narakasuran

only God knows the truth. May be Lord Krishna now decided to take Avtar

as a fraud. If we are intent on studying a subject sincerely and would

like to keep charlatans out, then we must have the capacity to judge the

good and bad coins. We must be sincere in our pursuit and then we will

reach the genuine Guru by the grace of Bhavani. I was led to the feet of

late Dr. KV Sarma and the few days I have spent with him has given me

the insight to understand what makes a fraud and what makes a scholar.

He was a great scholar respected all over India for his life time

service to Indian astronomy. Yes, He was not the VC of any Darbhanga

university and he had no such famous Godmen admirers as he had no time

to spare. He was busy with his work and served the Indian astronomy till

his last breath.

Tolerating falsehood and nonsense are disservice to the memory of such

great souls. I started respecting Monier Williams and Rev. E. Burgess

when I heard from Dr. Sarma as to the kind of difficulties they had in

those days and how much sacrifice was needed in those days to do such

work. In the words of that pious soul, these men were real Tapasvis who

had to keep their love for India under cover and had done genuine

scientifiic work under their disguise of being missionaries. They chose

to become missionaries to reach India and learn Indian wisdom but they

acted as missionaries outwardly to gain funds and sponsoring from

Europe.

chandra hari

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Namaste Vinayji,

>

> The plain meaning of what you said is that you are ignorant and your

admires- scholars must be so too. My plain response was that you will be

surprised if you check with them as you will find they are not ignorant

of that rule. It a plain reply to a plain interpretation of what you

wrote. It was only in a later mail you said that I misunderstood your

sarcastic statement. Hope this clarifies.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16

> Re: Date of Mahabharata

>

> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:38 AM

I did not insult anyone. Sunil jee had remarked, innocently, at many

> universities which support me ( " admirer-scholars " ) by saying : " You

> may be in for a big surprise. " He supposed professors of Jyotisha to

> be ignorant of elementary things like " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " .

>

> Many scientists believe that pandits belong to paleolithic age. I know

> Sunil jee is a good person. I have no complaint against him.

>

> -VJ

> ===== ======== ===========

>

January 9, 2009

Dear Chandrahariji,

Thank you. Yes, prima facie, from the two concepts of the beginning of day in the midnight and that at the Sun-rise we hae two different views and this is one of the genuine mysteries. Interstingly Sunrise at Greenwich coincides with the Midnight at Ujjain. Did the original Aryasiddhanta surreptitiously found its way to the hands of the earlier European scholars, probably around 450 BCE?

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote:

chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 Re: Date of Mahabharata Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:10 PM

Dear friend,I have not studied Siddhanta Siromani and Siddhanta darpana on theaspect of precision of Bija. But Indian tradition as I know had thepractice of prescribing very precise bijas as may be noted from thefollowing aspects:1. Aryabhatiya was a revision of Aryardharatrasiddha nta and theprecision of Aryabhatiya is a mystery - Indian Mystery is the name Dukes(US Professor of physics/authority on history of astronomy) gave to anarticle on the precision seen in Aryabhatiya.2. In Kerala and elsewhere the Vaghbhava corrections got introduced byHaridatta and it gave very precise computation of eclipses and planets.3. Around 1450 Drgganita of Paramesvara also revised planetary elements.In between there are other names like Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,Vatesvara, Bhaskara-II - all of them revised the earlier texts to matchwith observations. This was a necessity in view of

the small error inmean motions introduced by the zero longituide Kaliyugadi assumption.After Paramesvara in Kerala, Nilakantha, Achyuta and others revised thesystem for accuracy. In Maharashtra Ketakar used European elements tomake new tables that gave more precise results.Samanta Chandrasekhara work is too big and needs lot of efforts tounderstand as to how he achieved more accuracy, whether he used Europeandata to create computational methods and to verify them (Like Ketakarand others). etcchandra hariancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:>> Dear Chandrahariji,>> Namaste,>> Nice to see you in this forum. It is quite sometime since wecorresponded.>> Pandit Samanta

Chandrasekhar gave importance to the 12th century textSiddhanta Siromani. What do you think of this work from the point ofview of the Beeja corrections?>> Regards,>> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya>>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ ... wrote:>> chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ ...> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> ancient_indian_ astrology> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 3:01 AM>>>>>>>> It may be noted:> 1. Burgess himself was a great scholar and astronomer and he hasdemonstrated his interpretations with computations in his book and sucha good work has not appeared again even after 100s of years.> 2. Burgess had the proven

competence to understand the relevance fewverses (21 or 22) intended for Bijakriya found in certain manuscriptsknown since the time of Ranganatha who wrote a commentary on the text in16th century.> 3. Such an appendix was not known to Kerala astronomical traditionwhere the Vaghbhava correction got introduced.> 4. Appendix as above for Bijakriya was not known during the times ofVaraha, Aryabhata or Brahmagupta, Vatesvara, Munjala etc. These greatastronomers have not discussed the Bija verses seen in some manuscriptsof Suryasiddhanta.> 5. Great astronomer Paramesvara of 15th century who wrote a commentaryon Suryasiddhanta and also created a new Ganita, Drgganitam has notdiscussed the efficacy of any Bija said in Suryasiddhanta.> Had those Bija verses been original subsequent astronomers would havediscussed, tested and improved those computations during the 1000 yearsthat elapsed

between Varahamihira and Ranganatha.> All thoses verses appear after the Upasamharam. Why should the greatgenius who authored Suryasiddhanta leave some subject matter as feworphaned verses outside the text? The system of Appendices wereprevalent in those days? ok. If yes, what kind of subject matter ispresented as an appendix?> If Bija kriya formed part of original text why the great genius (Theso called Asura Rishi Mayan) did not incorporate that into theastronomical theory of his text?> chandra harii>> ancient_indian_ astrology, Vinay Jha<vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:> >> > @ Sunil jee :> >> > I made neither a request nor a challenge, but my language might haveappeared to be equivocal, which was in a response to your language.> >> > You are well versed in both science and ancient texts. If you do

notmind, you can take my mail to be both a request as well as a challenge ;please do not feel offended. My aim is not to engage you in a wordyduel, it is foolish and will waste my time as well as yours. I want youto devote some time to the questions I have put forth. If you findproper answers, both you and the world will get the benefit. If you donot know the answer, it will not belittle you in the least, because thequestions I have put forth were beyond the intellectual capabilities ofso-called "experts" like Burgess (22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara ... Irequest Sunil jee to help me in understand these> > 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditionalpublishers are> > still not ready to omit them. ......... show me the technique ofthose Suryasiddhantic tables> > which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own incompetence inexplaining> >

them).> >> > If you get the meaning of 22 shlokas about beeja-samskara in SS, Ishall be obliged to you, because I want to get the views of everyknowledgeable persons about the meaning of these shlokas.> >> > As for the second question (SS tables, I am not speaking of theSiamese SS tables of 7th century AD presently in France) , try to findthe meaning of my obscure passage.> >> > Sincerely,> >> > -VJ> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Thursday, January 8, 2009 1:01:19 AM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> >> >> > Dear Vinayji,> >> > This is a request or

challenge?> >> > Regards,> >> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> >> > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:> > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:53 AM> >> > @Sunil jee :"Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars> >> > whether all of them have heard about the rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato> >> > Gati" or not. You may be in for a big surprise."> >> > I had said "I may not be aware of "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati", but all> >> > those institutions and individuals are also ignorant of these things> >> > who accept me as an authority in these

matters".> >> > Sunil jee missed the irony in my comment, because he thinks"Ankaanaam> >> > Vaamato Gati" to be a great secret. Every student of Jyotisha at any> >> > Sanskrit university knows it. I had hoped Sunil jee would pay> >> > attention to his language. But I am now really surprized at him and> >> > his interpretation of ancient texts.> >> > Sunil jee also says :"I understand that Suryasiddhanta expects us to> >> > update the astronomical data from time to time."> >> > I hope Sunil jee will illumine my dark mind about updating> >> > Suryasiddhanta, esp because Burgess deliberately omitted from the> >> > original text the 22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara needed for updating> >> > Suryasiddhanta. No westernized scholar could ever

understand or> >> > translate those verses. I request Sunil jee to help me in understand> >> > these 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional> >> > publishers are still not ready to omit them.> >> > All modern commentators followed Burgess, Stokingwoode and Wilkinson> >> > in neglecting Suryasiddhantic Tables, just because they failed to> >> > understand the Suryasiddhantic formulas used to construct these> >> > tables. No available commentary mentions these ancient tables, which> >> > are still used by a majority of traditional Hindu almanac(panchanga)> >> > makers. I request Sunil jee to tell me the name of these ancient> >> > Suryasiddhantic Tables, which are still alive but are famous in some> >> > other

name.> >> > The "authorities" I cited were not my admirers, but had to accept my> >> > views after a high court verdict which compelled the Vice Chancellor> >> > to organize shaastraartha for three days. But now, I learn fromSunil> >> > jee that all of them, including me, are in for a big surprize fornot> >> > knowing the first things a student learns in a Sanskrit university.> >> > Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati cannot be whimsically used to deduce whatever> >> > one wants to. Sunil jee's notions of Time Cycles are contrary to the> >> > views of all ancient astrological/ astronomical and Puranic texts of> >> > India. I have already explained the meaning of 12000 divine years> >> > being equal to 4320000 human years in one of my recent posts, but>

>> > Sunil jee is sticking to his wrong views.> >> > Hence, I invite him to teach me the ancient Tantra of Jyotisha which> >> > is needed for constructing and updating Suryasiddhantic and other> >> > tables. Please name that Tantra (Suryasiddhantic Tables). Those> >> > ancient tables were called Tantra, and the mechanisms ofconstructing> >> > these tables are known only to a few. Shaastraartha presupposes a> >> > thorough study of shaastras. Come on Sunil jee, please illumine my> >> > dark mind about the technique of ancient Indian astrology/astronomy.> >> > Tantra is 'technique' ; show me the technique of thoseSuryasiddhantic> >> > tables which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his ownincompetence> >> > in explaining

them.> >> > -VJ> >> > ============ ======== ============ ========> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, SunilBhattacharjya> >> > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> >> > >> >> > > Dear Vinayji,> >> > >> >> > > Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars whether all of> >> > them have heard about the rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati" or not. You> >> > may be in for a big surprise.> >> > >> >> > > According to the Padma Purana the Bhagavad Purana is the highestand> >> > most authoritative among the Puranas. Bhagavad Purana treated the> >> > subject of Yuga classification in short but there is no ambiguity in>

>> > its statements. Vishnu Purana supplements the same.> >> > >> >> > > As regards the Aryabhatiya I had the good fortune that a friend of> >> > mine in USA visited the India--Library in London and got a photocopy> >> > of Bhau Daji's paper on Aryabhatiya and he was very kind to pass ona> >> > copy of the same to me. I read Burgess's translation of the> >> > Suryasiddhanta and would like to read yours work on that too. I> >> > believe that Suryasiddhanta was composed by Mayasura, who was from> >> > Pragjyotishpur, the kingdom of Narakasura. I understand that> >> > Suryasiddhanta expects us to update the astronomical data from timeto> >> > time and I hope you paid attention to this area. My forays into> >> >

Aryabhatiya and Suryasiddhanta were more for historical studies than> >> > for Astrology.> >> > >> >> > > Regards,> >> > >> >> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>> >> > > wrote:> >> > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>> >> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> >> > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:28 PM> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>

>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Sunil jee said : "Those who are not aware of the rule> >> > "Ankaanaam> >> > >> >> > > Vaamato Gati" interprets it to be 4 to 3 to 2 to 1"> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > I may not be aware of "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati", but all those> >> > >> >> > > institutions and in dividuals are also ignorant of these thingswho> >> > >> >> > > accept me as an authority in these matters : cf.> >> > >> >> > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay+Jha> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Sunil jee is misinterpreting classical theory of time cycles. Mostof> >> > >> >> > > the Puranas give only passing references to such things, excepting> >> > >> >> > > Narada Purana. Since Sunil jee is genuinely interested in thistopic,> >> > >> >> > > I request him to read Narada Purana and esp Suryasiddhanta firstof> >> > >> >> > > all, which deal with this topic most clearly and extensively.> >> > >> >> > > Aryabhatiya is the only ancient text which gives a different scaleof> >> > >>

>> > > yugas, but that was one of the chief the reasons why Aryabhatiyawas> >> > >> >> > > rejected by mainstream scholars of Vedic-Puranic tradition.> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > -VJ> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, SunilBhattacharjya> >> > >> >> > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > Dear Vinayji,> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > I have not misquoted Vishnu puran. What

I say is corroborated by> >> > >> >> > > Bhagavat Puran also. Bhagavat puran gives the ratio of> >> > >> >> > > Satya:Treta: Dwapara:Kaliyuga as 4:3:2:1 Those who are not awareof the> >> > >> >> > > rule "Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati" interprets it to be 4 to3 to 2 to1> >> > >> >> > > whereas it is 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 The concept of the Sandhi kala isgiven> >> > >> >> > > in the Bhagavat purana. Vishnu Purana gives one particular number> >> > >> >> > > dividing which by another particular number one has to arrive atthe> >> > >> >> > > span of the Kali yuga. This figure comes out to be 4800 years. Atthe> >> >

>> >> > > moment I do not have immediate acces to the relevant books. If youare> >> > >> >> > > really not able to locate in these puranas I shall surely take an> >> > >> >> > > extra effort to provide them to you.> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > Many scholars in the past took the wrong ratio and arrived atthe> >> > >> >> > > span of the Kaliyuga as 1200 years and then found that theKaliyuga> >> > >> >> > > should have been over in 3102 - 1200 = 1902 BCE ie before thebirth of> >> > >> >> > > Lord Buddha. But Lord Buddha has been accepted as an Avatara inthe> >> >

>> >> > > Kaliyuga. They could not solve this discrepancy and that is whythey> >> > >> >> > > invented the concept that this figure of 1200 should be multipliedby> >> > >> >> > > 360 to arrive at the figure of 1200 X 360 = 432,000 years for> >> > >> >> > > Kaliyuga, saying that 1200 years refers to Divyavarsha, which mustbe> >> > >> >> > > multiplied by 360 to arrive at the human years.> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > Regards,> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> >> > >> >>

> > >> >> > >> >> > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>> >> > >> >> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata> >> > >> >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> >> > >> >> > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:08 AM> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >

>> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > I had earlier stated that a mahayuga lasts for 12000 divineyears> >> > >> >> > > > which is equal to 432000 human years, according to all ancient> >> > >> >> > > > sources, and Kaliyuga is its 10th part. Aryabhatiya is a sole> >> > >> >> > > > exception, which gives a higher propotion to Kaliyuga. VishnuPurana> >> > >> >> > > > is being misquoted by Sunil jee (take my comments positively,and show> >> > >> >> > > > me the shloka, then I will give more tangible proofs to thecontrary).> >> > >>

>> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > Some NRIs are also propagating a theory of Dvapar yuga atpresent.> >> > >> >> > > > They are too much impressed with present day material progressto> >> > >> >> > > > value ancient ideas. If the ancient time-cycle is wrong, thenone must> >> > >> >> > > > drop the very notion of such yugas and become completelymodernized.> >> > >> >> > > > Why tamper with ancient idesa?> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > -VJ> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > > --- In

ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"> >> > >> >> > > > <rajiventerprises@ ...> wrote:> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >> > > > > Dear Sunil ji,> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >> > > > > Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Acceptance of thecurrent> >> > >> >> > > > > Yuga as Dwapara Yuga.> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >> > > > > regards,> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >> > > > > Bhaskar.> >> >

>> >> > > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >>

January 9, 2009

, " Bhaskar "

<rajiventerprises wrote:

>

> Kind Sir,

>

> Who is selling and who is buying here ?

>

> Even if someone is selling, why do you think we are naive enough to

> purchase anything with our hard earned money without checking the same ?

>

> If somebody says he is doing so much Pranayam why do you think that we

> will all fall to his feet , or if someone says he has been so many years

> in Tantra then why do you think we will all go run after him looking for

> Divine solutions ? And why do you think we will all feel elated to see

> many degrees to anyones name and attain levitational Yoga ? This does

> not mean that we are doubting anyones credentials, but remember that

> everyone is smart here to judge and make his own judgement.

>

> At the same time, one cannot just wave off anybody in oblivion without

> giving him a chance to show case his abilities and what he has to offer.

> And those who have problem with someones attainments must prove too that

> he is a fraud. OR bring him to a situation where he is proved one,

> through proper choice of an subject where discussions, arguments,

> tark-kutarka will reveal parasmani kaun hai aur kala pathar kaun hai.

>

> Atthe moment we do not know who is right and who is wrong among you

> both.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

, " chandra_hari18 "

> <chandra_hari18@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > This is not the first time that the group is witnessing a smoky Comet.

> > One or the other guy seeking perpetuation of his name enters the group

> > and tries to sell his product intellectually or materially. Anyone to

> > present a new commentary of Suryasiddhanta, there are prescribed

> methods

> > for that in these times. He should have a systematic study to present

> > before the world as Burgess did when he translated the text into

> > English. It was a great service to Indian astronomy. One fine morning

> > someone cannot enter the scientific world and declare that Burgess

> knew

> > nothing and a new prophet is born with some tables of Suryasiddhanta.

> > Anyone who is having some basic training in science won't attempt such

> > unscrupulous claims.

> >

> > See the proceedings of Celebrating Monsoon 2007 available on the web.

> > Where is the paper of Vinay Jha? What did he present in that

> conference?

> > Why such works are not available on web site?

> >

> > What is this KSD Darbhanga University? What are the credentials of its

> > Vice Chancellor? Who all are his other admirers? Admirers for what?

> >

> > Has he written a single paragrapha worth any piece of wisdom? See the

> > Krishna horoscope he has published. Anyone can make any wild claims

> like

> > that. Only frauds do such things. He claims to be a Brahmachari. Who

> > knows what is the definition of Brahmachari in " his Darbhanga school " ?

> >

> > Any man who says that Burgess had no understanding of Suryasiddhanta

> > knows nothing of Suryasiddhanta and Indian astronomy. Note his other

> > comments on Pancasiddhantika. Anyone who understands Panchasiddhantika

> > will fall at the feet of Varahamihira - in fact the whole scientific

> > world prostrate before him for the great work.

> >

> > And you people expect others to maintain diplomacy before the frauds

> > trying to sell nonsense? Brahmachari or Ravan or Kamsan or Narakasuran

> > only God knows the truth. May be Lord Krishna now decided to take

> Avtar

> > as a fraud. If we are intent on studying a subject sincerely and would

> > like to keep charlatans out, then we must have the capacity to judge

> the

> > good and bad coins. We must be sincere in our pursuit and then we will

> > reach the genuine Guru by the grace of Bhavani. I was led to the feet

> of

> > late Dr. KV Sarma and the few days I have spent with him has given me

> > the insight to understand what makes a fraud and what makes a scholar.

> > He was a great scholar respected all over India for his life time

> > service to Indian astronomy. Yes, He was not the VC of any Darbhanga

> > university and he had no such famous Godmen admirers as he had no time

> > to spare. He was busy with his work and served the Indian astronomy

> till

> > his last breath.

> >

> > Tolerating falsehood and nonsense are disservice to the memory of such

> > great souls. I started respecting Monier Williams and Rev. E. Burgess

> > when I heard from Dr. Sarma as to the kind of difficulties they had in

> > those days and how much sacrifice was needed in those days to do such

> > work. In the words of that pious soul, these men were real Tapasvis

> who

> > had to keep their love for India under cover and had done genuine

> > scientifiic work under their disguise of being missionaries. They

> chose

> > to become missionaries to reach India and learn Indian wisdom but they

> > acted as missionaries outwardly to gain funds and sponsoring from

> > Europe.

> >

> > chandra hari

> >

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Vinayji,

> > >

> > > The plain meaning of what you said is that you are ignorant and your

> > admires- scholars must be so too. My plain response was that you will

> be

> > surprised if you check with them as you will find they are not

> ignorant

> > of that rule. It a plain reply to a plain interpretation of what you

> > wrote. It was only in a later mail you said that I misunderstood your

> > sarcastic statement. Hope this clarifies.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@ wrote:

> > >

> > > vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@

> > > Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > >

> > > Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:38 AM

> > >

> > > I did not insult anyone. Sunil jee had remarked, innocently, at many

> > > universities which support me ( " admirer-scholars " ) by saying : " You

> > > may be in for a big surprise. " He supposed professors of Jyotisha to

> > > be ignorant of elementary things like " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " .

> > >

> > > Many scientists believe that pandits belong to paleolithic age. I

> know

> > > Sunil jee is a good person. I have no complaint against him.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ===== ======== ===========

> > >

> >

>

January 9, 2009

Thanks for your balanced response. I hope you will your present tone,

ie,abstaining from personal remarks about my being a brahmachari or a

lecher, because personal remarks are not conducive to a congenial

environment for good discussions.

I am now convinced that Mr Chandra Hari is unwilling (unable) to

discuss the proposed topics. You are right to say " At the moment we do

not know who is right and who is wrong among you both. "

There is only one way out of the current impasse :

Henceforth, I will not try to defend myself from his malicious abuses.

It is a duty of moderator who had invited me, in spite of my

reluctance to join any group initially, and is now perplexed about

what to do. The moderator cannot ask Mr Chandra Hari to behave in a

sociable manner. If I try to defend myself, too much time of mine as

well as of others will be wasted over trifles. My personal prestige is

a trifle, and I do not care about that.

But Mr Chandra Hari has tried to create doubts about many important

points of ancient Indian astrology, which cannot be cleared without a

proper discussion. I will try to keep away from Mr Chandra Hari

because he is no mood to behave properly. I will answer all major

points one by one provided at least some of the group members get

interested in discussing these points, or least in allowing such a

discussion without personal attacks. But some members say that Mr

Chandra Hari is the final arbiter in matters related to Indian

astrology because " we know him and we do not know you " . These persons

will do their best to thwart any genuine discussion at this forum. The

moderator is too gentle to moerate these members.

Hence, I do not know whether I will be allowed tp clear all the doubts

created recently. These doubts must be cleared, because they relate to

crucial aspects of Indian astrology. It is not difficult for me to

guess why Mr Chandra Hari is desirous of getting me out, but it is not

clear to me why one or two members regard Mr Chandra Hari as the final

voice. There is no final voice in these matters, neither Mr Hari nor me.

I hope you will cooperate in bringing the discussion on proper tracks

once again. Some persons may try to prevent discussion, or divert the

topic, but we must ignore such attempts, and instead of wasting our

time in answering to them, should try to enrich this forum with better

materials.

Some members are wrongly portraying my ideas as " new " or " secret " . All

I say is very very ancient. It is Mr Chandra Hari who is destroying

Indian tradition and declaring a christian prist Burgess to be the

final word in Indian Jyotisha. In a previous message, Mr Chandra Hari

endorsed Maxmuller's dating of Rgveda (1500 BC). Mr Chandra Hari

should put forth arguments, but he is inciting members to get me out.

Why he ebades a shaastrartha is not difficult to guess. One respected

Indian astrologer from USA has advised me to ignore abuses and keep on

working. I request you to help me in building a proper and congenial

environment here.

-VJ

, " Bhaskar "

<rajiventerprises wrote:

>

> Kind Sir,

>

> Who is selling and who is buying here ?

>

> Even if someone is selling, why do you think we are naive enough to

> purchase anything with our hard earned money without checking the same ?

>

> If somebody says he is doing so much Pranayam why do you think that we

> will all fall to his feet , or if someone says he has been so many years

> in Tantra then why do you think we will all go run after him looking for

> Divine solutions ? And why do you think we will all feel elated to see

> many degrees to anyones name and attain levitational Yoga ? This does

> not mean that we are doubting anyones credentials, but remember that

> everyone is smart here to judge and make his own judgement.

>

> At the same time, one cannot just wave off anybody in oblivion without

> giving him a chance to show case his abilities and what he has to offer.

> And those who have problem with someones attainments must prove too that

> he is a fraud. OR bring him to a situation where he is proved one,

> through proper choice of an subject where discussions, arguments,

> tark-kutarka will reveal parasmani kaun hai aur kala pathar kaun hai.

>

> Atthe moment we do not know who is right and who is wrong among you

> both.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

, " chandra_hari18 "

> <chandra_hari18@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > This is not the first time that the group is witnessing a smoky Comet.

> > One or the other guy seeking perpetuation of his name enters the group

> > and tries to sell his product intellectually or materially. Anyone to

> > present a new commentary of Suryasiddhanta, there are prescribed

> methods

> > for that in these times. He should have a systematic study to present

> > before the world as Burgess did when he translated the text into

> > English. It was a great service to Indian astronomy. One fine morning

> > someone cannot enter the scientific world and declare that Burgess

> knew

> > nothing and a new prophet is born with some tables of Suryasiddhanta.

> > Anyone who is having some basic training in science won't attempt such

> > unscrupulous claims.

> >

> > See the proceedings of Celebrating Monsoon 2007 available on the web.

> > Where is the paper of Vinay Jha? What did he present in that

> conference?

> > Why such works are not available on web site?

> >

> > What is this KSD Darbhanga University? What are the credentials of its

> > Vice Chancellor? Who all are his other admirers? Admirers for what?

> >

> > Has he written a single paragrapha worth any piece of wisdom? See the

> > Krishna horoscope he has published. Anyone can make any wild claims

> like

> > that. Only frauds do such things. He claims to be a Brahmachari. Who

> > knows what is the definition of Brahmachari in " his Darbhanga school " ?

> >

> > Any man who says that Burgess had no understanding of Suryasiddhanta

> > knows nothing of Suryasiddhanta and Indian astronomy. Note his other

> > comments on Pancasiddhantika. Anyone who understands Panchasiddhantika

> > will fall at the feet of Varahamihira - in fact the whole scientific

> > world prostrate before him for the great work.

> >

> > And you people expect others to maintain diplomacy before the frauds

> > trying to sell nonsense? Brahmachari or Ravan or Kamsan or Narakasuran

> > only God knows the truth. May be Lord Krishna now decided to take

> Avtar

> > as a fraud. If we are intent on studying a subject sincerely and would

> > like to keep charlatans out, then we must have the capacity to judge

> the

> > good and bad coins. We must be sincere in our pursuit and then we will

> > reach the genuine Guru by the grace of Bhavani. I was led to the feet

> of

> > late Dr. KV Sarma and the few days I have spent with him has given me

> > the insight to understand what makes a fraud and what makes a scholar.

> > He was a great scholar respected all over India for his life time

> > service to Indian astronomy. Yes, He was not the VC of any Darbhanga

> > university and he had no such famous Godmen admirers as he had no time

> > to spare. He was busy with his work and served the Indian astronomy

> till

> > his last breath.

> >

> > Tolerating falsehood and nonsense are disservice to the memory of such

> > great souls. I started respecting Monier Williams and Rev. E. Burgess

> > when I heard from Dr. Sarma as to the kind of difficulties they had in

> > those days and how much sacrifice was needed in those days to do such

> > work. In the words of that pious soul, these men were real Tapasvis

> who

> > had to keep their love for India under cover and had done genuine

> > scientifiic work under their disguise of being missionaries. They

> chose

> > to become missionaries to reach India and learn Indian wisdom but they

> > acted as missionaries outwardly to gain funds and sponsoring from

> > Europe.

> >

> > chandra hari

> >

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Vinayji,

> > >

> > > The plain meaning of what you said is that you are ignorant and your

> > admires- scholars must be so too. My plain response was that you will

> be

> > surprised if you check with them as you will find they are not

> ignorant

> > of that rule. It a plain reply to a plain interpretation of what you

> > wrote. It was only in a later mail you said that I misunderstood your

> > sarcastic statement. Hope this clarifies.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@ wrote:

> > >

> > > vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@

> > > Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > >

> > > Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:38 AM

> > >

> > > I did not insult anyone. Sunil jee had remarked, innocently, at many

> > > universities which support me ( " admirer-scholars " ) by saying : " You

> > > may be in for a big surprise. " He supposed professors of Jyotisha to

> > > be ignorant of elementary things like " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " .

> > >

> > > Many scientists believe that pandits belong to paleolithic age. I

> know

> > > Sunil jee is a good person. I have no complaint against him.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ===== ======== ===========

> > >

> >

>

January 9, 2009

Sunil jee,

it is in reference to your comment : " Sunrise at Greenwich coincides

with the Midnight at Ujjain " .

Western almanacs were never made from sunrise, but from midnight, at

least during past 23 centuries, for which there is documented evidence

beginning from those from Alexandria. Varaha Mihira also knew this fact.

In India, panchangas need to be made from sunrise, which is start of a

new day according to Indian tradition. But sunrise time fluctuates

with seasons. Hence, midnight computations were also allowed in India,

but festivals & c were always presented in a format of day beginning

from sunrise.

-VJ

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrahariji,

>

> Thank you. Yes, prima facie, from the two concepts of the beginning

of day in the midnight and that at the Sun-rise we hae two different

views and this is one of the genuine mysteries. Interstingly Sunrise

at Greenwich coincides with the Midnight at Ujjain. Did the original

Aryasiddhanta surreptitiously found its way to the hands of the

earlier European scholars, probably around 450 BCE?

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote:

>

> chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18

> Re: Date of Mahabharata

>

> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:10 PM

>

Dear friend,

>

> I have not studied Siddhanta Siromani and Siddhanta darpana on the

> aspect of precision of Bija. But Indian tradition as I know had the

> practice of prescribing very precise bijas as may be noted from the

> following aspects:

>

> 1. Aryabhatiya was a revision of Aryardharatrasiddha nta and the

> precision of Aryabhatiya is a mystery - Indian Mystery is the name Dukes

> (US Professor of physics/authority on history of astronomy) gave to an

> article on the precision seen in Aryabhatiya.

>

> 2. In Kerala and elsewhere the Vaghbhava corrections got introduced by

> Haridatta and it gave very precise computation of eclipses and planets.

>

> 3. Around 1450 Drgganita of Paramesvara also revised planetary elements.

>

> In between there are other names like Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,

> Vatesvara, Bhaskara-II - all of them revised the earlier texts to match

> with observations. This was a necessity in view of the small error in

> mean motions introduced by the zero longituide Kaliyugadi assumption.

>

> After Paramesvara in Kerala, Nilakantha, Achyuta and others revised the

> system for accuracy. In Maharashtra Ketakar used European elements to

> make new tables that gave more precise results.

>

> Samanta Chandrasekhara work is too big and needs lot of efforts to

> understand as to how he achieved more accuracy, whether he used European

> data to create computational methods and to verify them (Like Ketakar

> and others). etc

>

> chandra hari

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrahariji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Nice to see you in this forum. It is quite sometime since we

> corresponded.

> >

> > Pandit Samanta Chandrasekhar gave importance to the 12th century text

> Siddhanta Siromani. What do you think of this work from the point of

> view of the Beeja corrections?

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ ... wrote:

> >

> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ ...

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, January 8, 2009, 3:01 AM

> >

> > It may be noted:

> > 1. Burgess himself was a great scholar and astronomer and he has

> demonstrated his interpretations with computations in his book and such

> a good work has not appeared again even after 100s of years.

> > 2. Burgess had the proven competence to understand the relevance few

> verses (21 or 22) intended for Bijakriya found in certain manuscripts

> known since the time of Ranganatha who wrote a commentary on the text in

> 16th century.

> > 3. Such an appendix was not known to Kerala astronomical tradition

> where the Vaghbhava correction got introduced.

> > 4. Appendix as above for Bijakriya was not known during the times of

> Varaha, Aryabhata or Brahmagupta, Vatesvara, Munjala etc. These great

> astronomers have not discussed the Bija verses seen in some manuscripts

> of Suryasiddhanta.

> > 5. Great astronomer Paramesvara of 15th century who wrote a commentary

> on Suryasiddhanta and also created a new Ganita, Drgganitam has not

> discussed the efficacy of any Bija said in Suryasiddhanta.

> > Had those Bija verses been original subsequent astronomers would have

> discussed, tested and improved those computations during the 1000 years

> that elapsed between Varahamihira and Ranganatha.

> > All thoses verses appear after the Upasamharam. Why should the great

> genius who authored Suryasiddhanta leave some subject matter as few

> orphaned verses outside the text? The system of Appendices were

> prevalent in those days? ok. If yes, what kind of subject matter is

> presented as an appendix?

> > If Bija kriya formed part of original text why the great genius (The

> so called Asura Rishi Mayan) did not incorporate that into the

> astronomical theory of his text?

> > chandra harii

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Vinay Jha

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > @ Sunil jee :

> > >

> > > I made neither a request nor a challenge, but my language might have

> appeared to be equivocal, which was in a response to your language.

> > >

> > > You are well versed in both science and ancient texts. If you do not

> mind, you can take my mail to be both a request as well as a challenge ;

> please do not feel offended. My aim is not to engage you in a wordy

> duel, it is foolish and will waste my time as well as yours. I want you

> to devote some time to the questions I have put forth. If you find

> proper answers, both you and the world will get the benefit. If you do

> not know the answer, it will not belittle you in the least, because the

> questions I have put forth were beyond the intellectual capabilities of

> so-called " experts " like Burgess (22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara ... I

> request Sunil jee to help me in understand these

> > > 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional

> publishers are

> > > still not ready to omit them. ......... show me the technique of

> those Suryasiddhantic tables

> > > which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own incompetence in

> explaining

> > > them).

> > >

> > > If you get the meaning of 22 shlokas about beeja-samskara in SS, I

> shall be obliged to you, because I want to get the views of every

> knowledgeable persons about the meaning of these shlokas.

> > >

> > > As for the second question (SS tables, I am not speaking of the

> Siamese SS tables of 7th century AD presently in France) , try to find

> the meaning of my obscure passage.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Thursday, January 8, 2009 1:01:19 AM

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > >

> > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > This is a request or challenge?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:53 AM

> > >

> > > @Sunil jee : " Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars

> > >

> > > whether all of them have heard about the rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato

> > >

> > > Gati " or not. You may be in for a big surprise. "

> > >

> > > I had said " I may not be aware of " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " , but all

> > >

> > > those institutions and individuals are also ignorant of these things

> > >

> > > who accept me as an authority in these matters " .

> > >

> > > Sunil jee missed the irony in my comment, because he thinks

> " Ankaanaam

> > >

> > > Vaamato Gati " to be a great secret. Every student of Jyotisha at any

> > >

> > > Sanskrit university knows it. I had hoped Sunil jee would pay

> > >

> > > attention to his language. But I am now really surprized at him and

> > >

> > > his interpretation of ancient texts.

> > >

> > > Sunil jee also says : " I understand that Suryasiddhanta expects us to

> > >

> > > update the astronomical data from time to time. "

> > >

> > > I hope Sunil jee will illumine my dark mind about updating

> > >

> > > Suryasiddhanta, esp because Burgess deliberately omitted from the

> > >

> > > original text the 22 shlokas of beeja-samskaara needed for updating

> > >

> > > Suryasiddhanta. No westernized scholar could ever understand or

> > >

> > > translate those verses. I request Sunil jee to help me in understand

> > >

> > > these 22 verses which Burgess deliberately omitted but traditional

> > >

> > > publishers are still not ready to omit them.

> > >

> > > All modern commentators followed Burgess, Stokingwoode and Wilkinson

> > >

> > > in neglecting Suryasiddhantic Tables, just because they failed to

> > >

> > > understand the Suryasiddhantic formulas used to construct these

> > >

> > > tables. No available commentary mentions these ancient tables, which

> > >

> > > are still used by a majority of traditional Hindu almanac

> (panchanga)

> > >

> > > makers. I request Sunil jee to tell me the name of these ancient

> > >

> > > Suryasiddhantic Tables, which are still alive but are famous in some

> > >

> > > other name.

> > >

> > > The " authorities " I cited were not my admirers, but had to accept my

> > >

> > > views after a high court verdict which compelled the Vice Chancellor

> > >

> > > to organize shaastraartha for three days. But now, I learn from

> Sunil

> > >

> > > jee that all of them, including me, are in for a big surprize for

> not

> > >

> > > knowing the first things a student learns in a Sanskrit university.

> > >

> > > Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati cannot be whimsically used to deduce whatever

> > >

> > > one wants to. Sunil jee's notions of Time Cycles are contrary to the

> > >

> > > views of all ancient astrological/ astronomical and Puranic texts of

> > >

> > > India. I have already explained the meaning of 12000 divine years

> > >

> > > being equal to 4320000 human years in one of my recent posts, but

> > >

> > > Sunil jee is sticking to his wrong views.

> > >

> > > Hence, I invite him to teach me the ancient Tantra of Jyotisha which

> > >

> > > is needed for constructing and updating Suryasiddhantic and other

> > >

> > > tables. Please name that Tantra (Suryasiddhantic Tables). Those

> > >

> > > ancient tables were called Tantra, and the mechanisms of

> constructing

> > >

> > > these tables are known only to a few. Shaastraartha presupposes a

> > >

> > > thorough study of shaastras. Come on Sunil jee, please illumine my

> > >

> > > dark mind about the technique of ancient Indian astrology/astronomy

> .

> > >

> > > Tantra is 'technique' ; show me the technique of those

> Suryasiddhantic

> > >

> > > tables which Burgess deliberately omitted to hide his own

> incompetence

> > >

> > > in explaining them.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ============ ======== ============ ========

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Would you like to verify from your admirer-scholars whether all of

> > >

> > > them have heard about the rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " or not. You

> > >

> > > may be in for a big surprise.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > According to the Padma Purana the Bhagavad Purana is the highest

> and

> > >

> > > most authoritative among the Puranas. Bhagavad Purana treated the

> > >

> > > subject of Yuga classification in short but there is no ambiguity in

> > >

> > > its statements. Vishnu Purana supplements the same.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > As regards the Aryabhatiya I had the good fortune that a friend of

> > >

> > > mine in USA visited the India--Library in London and got a photocopy

> > >

> > > of Bhau Daji's paper on Aryabhatiya and he was very kind to pass on

> a

> > >

> > > copy of the same to me. I read Burgess's translation of the

> > >

> > > Suryasiddhanta and would like to read yours work on that too. I

> > >

> > > believe that Suryasiddhanta was composed by Mayasura, who was from

> > >

> > > Pragjyotishpur, the kingdom of Narakasura. I understand that

> > >

> > > Suryasiddhanta expects us to update the astronomical data from time

> to

> > >

> > > time and I hope you paid attention to this area. My forays into

> > >

> > > Aryabhatiya and Suryasiddhanta were more for historical studies than

> > >

> > > for Astrology.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regards,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> > >

> > > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> > >

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > >

> > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:28 PM

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sunil jee said : " Those who are not aware of the rule

> > >

> > > " Ankaanaam

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Vaamato Gati " interprets it to be 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 "

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I may not be aware of " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " , but all those

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > institutions and in dividuals are also ignorant of these things

> who

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > accept me as an authority in these matters : cf.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay+Jha

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sunil jee is misinterpreting classical theory of time cycles. Most

> of

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > the Puranas give only passing references to such things, excepting

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Narada Purana. Since Sunil jee is genuinely interested in this

> topic,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I request him to read Narada Purana and esp Suryasiddhanta first

> of

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > all, which deal with this topic most clearly and extensively.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Aryabhatiya is the only ancient text which gives a different scale

> of

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > yugas, but that was one of the chief the reasons why Aryabhatiya

> was

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > rejected by mainstream scholars of Vedic-Puranic tradition.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > -VJ

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > I have not misquoted Vishnu puran. What I say is corroborated by

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Bhagavat Puran also. Bhagavat puran gives the ratio of

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Satya:Treta: Dwapara:Kaliyuga as 4:3:2:1 Those who are not aware

> of the

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > rule " Ankaanaam Vaamato Gati " interprets it to be 4 to3 to 2 to1

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > whereas it is 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 The concept of the Sandhi kala is

> given

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > in the Bhagavat purana. Vishnu Purana gives one particular number

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > dividing which by another particular number one has to arrive at

> the

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > span of the Kali yuga. This figure comes out to be 4800 years. At

> the

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > moment I do not have immediate acces to the relevant books. If you

> are

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > really not able to locate in these puranas I shall surely take an

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > extra effort to provide them to you.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Many scholars in the past took the wrong ratio and arrived at

> the

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > span of the Kaliyuga as 1200 years and then found that the

> Kaliyuga

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > should have been over in 3102 - 1200 = 1902 BCE ie before the

> birth of

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Lord Buddha. But Lord Buddha has been accepted as an Avatara in

> the

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kaliyuga. They could not solve this discrepancy and that is why

> they

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > invented the concept that this figure of 1200 should be multiplied

> by

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > 360 to arrive at the figure of 1200 X 360 = 432,000 years for

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kaliyuga, saying that 1200 years refers to Divyavarsha, which must

> be

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > multiplied by 360 to arrive at the human years.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:08 AM

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > I had earlier stated that a mahayuga lasts for 12000 divine

> years

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > which is equal to 432000 human years, according to all ancient

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > sources, and Kaliyuga is its 10th part. Aryabhatiya is a sole

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > exception, which gives a higher propotion to Kaliyuga. Vishnu

> Purana

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > is being misquoted by Sunil jee (take my comments positively,

> and show

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > me the shloka, then I will give more tangible proofs to the

> contrary).

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Some NRIs are also propagating a theory of Dvapar yuga at

> present.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > They are too much impressed with present day material progress

> to

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > value ancient ideas. If the ancient time-cycle is wrong, then

> one must

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > drop the very notion of such yugas and become completely

> modernized.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > Why tamper with ancient idesa?

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar "

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > <rajiventerprises@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Dear Sunil ji,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Acceptance of the

> current

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Yuga as Dwapara Yuga.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 9, 2009

Namaste Vinayji,Did not you notice the slip?. Sorry for that. What I wanted to write was "Sunrise at Ujjain is midnght at Greenwich" .Were there really two Aryabhattas as there are both Ardharatri days and the Sunrise-days advocated separately and who wrote what? Was the midnight-day concept taken away from India along with the relevant books?We are humans and slips may occur. . If we slip then my request to you will be to look at the things constructively and positivelly.Regards,SKB--- On Fri, 1/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: Date of MahabharataTo:

Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 12:21 AM

Sunil jee,

it is in reference to your comment : "Sunrise at Greenwich coincides

with the Midnight at Ujjain".

Western almanacs were never made from sunrise, but from midnight, at

least during past 23 centuries, for which there is documented evidence

beginning from those from Alexandria. Varaha Mihira also knew this fact.

In India, panchangas need to be made from sunrise, which is start of a

new day according to Indian tradition. But sunrise time fluctuates

with seasons. Hence, midnight computations were also allowed in India,

but festivals & c were always presented in a format of day beginning

from sunrise.

-VJ

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrahariji,

>

> Thank you. Yes, prima facie, from the two concepts of the beginning

of day in the midnight and that at the Sun-rise we hae two different

views and this is one of the genuine mysteries. Interstingly Sunrise

at Greenwich coincides with the Midnight at Ujjain. Did the original

Aryasiddhanta surreptitiously found its way to the hands of the

earlier European scholars, probably around 450 BCE?

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:

>

> chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18@ ...>

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Date of Mahabharata

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:10 PM

>

> Dear friend,