Lagna lord in 5th House

September 29, 2007

Dear Pratima ji,

==>

> In my opinion placing of LL in 5th house should not be considered

in isolation .

<==

If Parasara, Meenaraja and many others did the same to teach us

the methodology of result derivation - we too can do the same I

think. Or better it should be stated that - We MUST do the same to

learn the methedology well. There is no other way for systematic

learning of 7-fold approach of astrology.

All the other things you mention are never considered by the sages

to deduce the said derivation - then why should we, I wonder! Hope

you see the point.

Of course you are right in stating that if many other indication

regarding the same is ALSO present in the chart the

result/derivation is EMPHASISED. Let us not confuce A DERIVATION and

CUMULATIVE EMPHASIS gained by a result by multiple derivations

pointing to the same result.

Love,

Sreenadh

, bkjha162 wrote:

>

> In my opinion placing of LL in 5th house should not be considered

in isolation . If LL is friendly to lord of 5th house or LL is

positively placed in 5th house, if it has aspect of strong benefics

Venus , Jup then there would be positive result in cases like birth

of child, their education, own intelligence etc.

>

> If malefics particularly Mars, Rahu and Sun in that order is LL

and placed in 5th house, then without any exception there would be

abortion / death of first child in males chart and bad tempered

child, handicapped etc if same happens in males chart....

>

> Pratima_jha

>

Quoting sreesog:

>

> > Dear Pradeep,

> ==>

> > (If LL in 5th) his concentration is not towards nourishing the

5th

> > house but extracting from it.

> <==

> But we already have the well supported rule that LL going to any

> house will give beneficial results to that house. Such a conclusion

> with contradict with that rule.

> ==>

> > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

feel

> > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> <==

> No that can't be said - there is well founded reason for LL

going to

> 7th giving some bad results. i.e. Consider any sign, 7th HL is

always

> the enemy of the LL. Parasara must have this in mind. So Parasara's

> derivations regarding LL going to 7th cannot be considered as

> supportive to your above argument.

> ==>

> > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get lot

of

> > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> <==

> There too Parasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will give 'many

> brothers', indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

house.

> ==>

> > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of Pratibha/creativity

and

> > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

leading to

> > sudden anger when disturbed.

> <==

> Yes, you have a point - LL going to any house indicate

attachment to

> the things indicated by that house. In the case of 5th, as you

said it

> is Children, Creativity etc. This attachment and ego could cause

anger

> - but I still doubt to what extend our argument is correct.

> Another possibility is that 5th is 3rd (growth) from 3rd (anger) -

> thus the same could indicate growth of anger I feel; but still as

RK

> ji pointed out - this could be too much extending. Therefore not

much

> confident about this argument as well.

> ==>

> > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> <==

> Yes, of course I agree with it - anybody with such combination in

> his/her horoscope should note that -

> * what we are trying to do is NOT to predict, but rather trying to

> understand the 'House Base' result derivation technique. A

systematic

> study of the results proposed by sages - to understand the

technique

> involved.

> Thanks for pouring in your views to help us all in trying to

> understand the 'ways of Parasara' in a better way.

> Love and Hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> --- In

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji and other learned members who have contributed

> >

> > ''If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

> > moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his

first

> > child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > reputation. He would be dear to the king.'' - Parasara

> >

> > As sage Parasara has said so ,there should be some reason.My

views-

> >

> > 5th lord is the main party responsible for protecting 5th house

and

> > not Lagna Lord.Lagna lord in 5th is pointing to the individual

going

> > to the house of children/followers/Creativity/Position.Here the

> > individual is extracting something from that house as compared

to

> > 5th lord going to Lagna.

> >

> > In the case of Mata Amritananda Mayi 5th lord Saturn is exalted

in

> > lagna.Followers/Children are taking consort in Lagna/AMMA.They

are

> > exalted or very happy there.

> >

> > Thus coming to the point - in this case the individual is not

taking

> > care of child(is absent minded) but is interested in his gains -

His

> > Pratibha/His positions etc.This can result in the loss of fisrt

> > child and there onwards the individual may be bit careful.Even

then

> > his concentration is not towards nourishing the 5th house but

> > extracting from it(moderate happiness).

> >

> > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

feel

> > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> >

> > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get lot

of

> > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> >

> > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of Pratibha/creativity

and

> > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

leading to

> > sudden anger when disturbed.Moreover being lorded by followers

> > and ''new things'' - creativity/children etc - Lagna might not

be

> > very happy with the perfection of surroundings(immaturity).

> >

> > Regarding dear to king -I feel it is so as 5th is the ''Bhava''

> > manifesting as Ministerial environment.

> >

> > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> >

> > Looking forward for expert views.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

> > >

> > > ==============================================

> > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > -----------------------------

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

individual

> > with

> > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous

and

> > kind.

> > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > children and

> > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some

> > malefic

> > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

power

> > and

> > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > a

> > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

qualities, he

> > will

> > > do many good deeds.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

> > moderate

> > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

child. He

> > would

> > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation.

He

> > would be

> > > dear to the king.

> > >

> > > - Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and

> > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th

is

> > 3rd

> > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house.

3rd

> > house

> > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

increases

> > the

> > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

2nd

> > house

> > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight

> > forward

> > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native

will

> > lose

> > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

lagna

> > lord

> > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

children

> > and

> > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord

is

> > in 5th

> > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

impact,

> > since

> > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > amplifying

> > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

first

> > child

> > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well.

> > Actually

> > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara

> > provides

> > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

house! We

> > are

> > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

solid

> > reason

> > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

influence

> > on 5th

> > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which

also

> > > provides similar results.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

> > moderate

> > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

would be

> > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > >

> > > - Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

results

> > as

> > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

predicted

> > only

> > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

> > available

> > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is

in

> > 5th

> > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

> > mention

> > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has

to

> > say.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > a good

> > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will

> > do

> > > many good deeds.

> > >

> > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > >

> > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> > quoted as

> > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

actual

> > > experience observed.

> > >

> > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

children'

> > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says

> > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion

we

> > could

> > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his

first

> > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first

child

> > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

malefic

> > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > amendment is

> > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost

the

> > same

> > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > a good

> > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will

do

> > many

> > > good deeds.

> > >

> > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > >

> > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

angry -

> > why?

> > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > significator

> > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar

to

> > sun in

> > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly

the

> > lose

> > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> > doubtful.

> > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > combination

> > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > >

> > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to

Sun

> > in that

> > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > >

> > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If

not

> > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

rule.

> > The

> > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara

> > such as -

> > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will

also

> > make the

> > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic

as

> > well.

> > >

> > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > without a

> > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-

depth

> > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

> > possible

> > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether

the

> > same

> > > can cause the loss of child -

> > >

> > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > signifying

> > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

child

> > for

> > > sure.

> > >

> > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > debilitation

> > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

house

> > as

> > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate

> > loss of

> > > child for sure.

> > >

> > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

lord

> > of

> > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > Possibly the

> > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > >

> > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

sign

> > for

> > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > >

> > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

Sagittarius

> > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

> > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > >

> > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn

owns

> > the

> > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

> > results

> > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury

and

> > Saturn

> > > are imbecile planets.

> > >

> > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus

is

> > also

> > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

> > placed in

> > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > >

> > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of

the

> > 12

> > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

child,

> > even

> > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

Pisces

> > Lagna.

> > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement

> > without

> > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the

deep

> > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is

not

> > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief

> > statement

> > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of

> > first

> > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

Parasara

> > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

based

> > on

> > > the prime condition ? Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the

> > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

lord in

> > other

> > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to

> > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So

his

> > opinion

> > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as

5th

> > house

> > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

Meenaraja

> > will

> > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

from

> > all the

> > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see

> > that,

> > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of

> > first

> > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is

> > right, but

> > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with

the

> > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper

in

> > the

> > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

situations

> > as well

> > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

understanding

> > about

> > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > derivation. His

> > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more

far

> > and

> > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > practical. It

> > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed

a

> > sage,

> > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > >

> > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

> > allow me

> > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the

> > methods

> > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House

Base

> > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would

> > suggest

> > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

cleaner

> > and

> > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

master

> > House

> > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and

> > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > understood,

> > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

technique.

> > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

intelligence,

> > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > recited etc.

> > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > importance to

> > > the derivations related to the same.

> > >

> > > Extract from:

> > >

> >

Sreenadh

> > /La

> > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > ==============================================

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Binod ji,

There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to understand fun

or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets irritated

simply without reason - let us bear with it.

As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally important.

As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same. In

thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be. We

know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht it

cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of the

pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys the

situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It is

that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for fight

or partiality - it is not so.

Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

==>

Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th house

or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus as

LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

would not be any abortion as well.

<==

The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly neither

you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under consideration

support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL in

5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

Parasara indicate such a result.

Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to reflect

the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

Love,

Sreenadh

, Binod Kumar Jha

<bkjha162 wrote:

>

> Freinds,

>

> I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over equality

of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

survive & prosper.

>

> Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

>

> What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th house

or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus as

LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion as

well.

>

> pratima_jha

>

> Quoting phyllis:

>

> >

>

> _____

>

> Ernst Wilhelm [ernst]

> September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

>

> RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are arishta

Bhanga

> yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still health

> considerations or stress during birth to the child and or mother,

but only

> when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

certainly no

> cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

born with

> emergency c-section for instance.

>

Jai Rama,

>

> Ernst

>

> On Behalf Of

renunw

> Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> > Dear Lalit ji,

>

> > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

hopeless

> > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

>

> Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

> insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless

> child?

> Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing

to

> do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

>

> This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

dominant

> society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter?

Do

> you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

malefic

> influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

horoscope?

>

> I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

and

> female hold equal status in this world.

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

All our discussion in this group are of academic importance

only. There is no economic considerations involved. If someone

is taking (i know never you will, and i assure never i will) them

personally, or is unable to distinguish between academic and

personal - it is his problem, and not ours. So be brave, bold and

proceed, criticize, argue, present new views, logics - that is what

we are here for! We are all kids trying to understand the ideas

presented by the sages in a better, consistent, logical, systematic,

organized way. That is what we are doing - and that is what we will

continue to do.

I see your point - and appreciate the innovative way in which you

are looking at it. But still it cant be said that I am satisfied

with that. Yap, views differ - but it is that uniqueness that is

valuable, and needed to shed light on a subject from all directions.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and other members

>

> Pls consider my views only with academic importance.

>

> > But we already have the well supported rule that LL going to any

> > house will give beneficial results to that house. Such a

conclusion

> > with contradict with that rule.

>

> You are rihgt.I would like to understand it in another way.The

whole

> chart is understood w.r to Lagna -His gains and deteriorations.Thus

> the benefit is for Lagna .If Lagna lord is well placed in fourth -

> Means he has sthana bala there ,good grahas have amsha there,and

4th

> lord is strong - then he will gain from the environments held by

4th

> Bhava.Here Mother does not need support from the Jataka as

compared to

> child represented by 5th.

>

> If LL is in 11th Jataka is having gains or Labha.

>

> But in 5th - there is a difference - unlike 4th house and Mother,

the

> child needs support from Jataka.Wife too needs support from

Jataka.If

> Lagna lord is extracting as compared to nourish,then respective

> indications can suffer.But i agree with your point regarding 7th

> house(enemity).

>

> > There too Parasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will give 'many

> > brothers', indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

> >house.

>

> Yes ,i too have mentioned that jataka will benefit from

siblings.The

> point is siblings may not get significant consideration from

jataka.

>

> As the siblings are not totally dependent on jataka they will not

have

> any problem similar to the one faced by child (first) or spouse.

> His negligence is worry for siblings and Mother not for the

Jataka.On

> the other hand his negligence will result in destruction of child

and

> wife(direct dependence).As 5th is budhi sthana the individual may

> realize this after 1st instance.But in 7th he can be subjected to

some

> pleasures :-)leading to his fall or some good associations

leading to

> his escalation.

>

> As you have said the sage alone knows the reason.With GOD's grace

we

> are sharing whatever little that is coming to our mind.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> > ==>

> > > (If LL in 5th) his concentration is not towards nourishing the

5th

> > > house but extracting from it.

> > <==

> > But we already have the well supported rule that LL going to any

> > house will give beneficial results to that house. Such a

conclusion

> > with contradict with that rule.

> > ==>

> > > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

feel

> > > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> > <==

> > No that can't be said - there is well founded reason for LL

going to

> > 7th giving some bad results. i.e. Consider any sign, 7th HL is

always

> > the enemy of the LL. Parasara must have this in mind. So

Parasara's

> > derivations regarding LL going to 7th cannot be considered as

> > supportive to your above argument.

> > ==>

> > > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get

lot of

> > > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> > <==

> > There too Parasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will

give 'many

> > brothers', indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

house.

> > ==>

> > > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of

Pratibha/creativity and

> > > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

leading to

> > > sudden anger when disturbed.

> > <==

> > Yes, you have a point - LL going to any house indicate

attachment to

> > the things indicated by that house. In the case of 5th, as you

said it

> > is Children, Creativity etc. This attachment and ego could cause

anger

> > - but I still doubt to what extend our argument is correct.

> > Another possibility is that 5th is 3rd (growth) from 3rd

(anger) -

> > thus the same could indicate growth of anger I feel; but still

as RK

> > ji pointed out - this could be too much extending. Therefore not

much

> > confident about this argument as well.

> > ==>

> > > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> > <==

> > Yes, of course I agree with it - anybody with such combination

in

> > his/her horoscope should note that -

> > * what we are trying to do is NOT to predict, but rather trying

to

> > understand the 'House Base' result derivation technique. A

systematic

> > study of the results proposed by sages - to understand the

technique

> > involved.

> > Thanks for pouring in your views to help us all in trying to

> > understand the 'ways of Parasara' in a better way.

> > Love and Hugs,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > --- In

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sreenadh ji and other learned members who have contributed

> > >

> > > ''If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

have

> > > moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his

first

> > > child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect

and

> > > reputation. He would be dear to the king.'' - Parasara

> > >

> > > As sage Parasara has said so ,there should be some reason.My

views-

> > >

> > > 5th lord is the main party responsible for protecting 5th

house and

> > > not Lagna Lord.Lagna lord in 5th is pointing to the individual

going

> > > to the house of children/followers/Creativity/Position.Here

the

> > > individual is extracting something from that house as compared

to

> > > 5th lord going to Lagna.

> > >

> > > In the case of Mata Amritananda Mayi 5th lord Saturn is

exalted in

> > > lagna.Followers/Children are taking consort in Lagna/AMMA.They

are

> > > exalted or very happy there.

> > >

> > > Thus coming to the point - in this case the individual is not

taking

> > > care of child(is absent minded) but is interested in his

gains - His

> > > Pratibha/His positions etc.This can result in the loss of

fisrt

> > > child and there onwards the individual may be bit careful.Even

then

> > > his concentration is not towards nourishing the 5th house but

> > > extracting from it(moderate happiness).

> > >

> > > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

feel

> > > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> > >

> > > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get

lot of

> > > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> > >

> > > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of

Pratibha/creativity and

> > > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

leading to

> > > sudden anger when disturbed.Moreover being lorded by followers

> > > and ''new things'' - creativity/children etc - Lagna might not

be

> > > very happy with the perfection of surroundings(immaturity).

> > >

> > > Regarding dear to king -I feel it is so as 5th is

the ''Bhava''

> > > manifesting as Ministerial environment.

> > >

> > > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> > >

> > > Looking forward for expert views.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed

below.

> > > >

> > > > ==============================================

> > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > -----------------------------

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

individual

> > > with

> > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

righteous and

> > > kind.

> > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > > children and

> > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is

some

> > > malefic

> > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

power

> > > and

> > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > > a

> > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

qualities, he

> > > will

> > > > do many good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

have

> > > moderate

> > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

child. He

> > > would

> > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation.

He

> > > would be

> > > > dear to the king.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry

and

> > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be -

5th is

> > > 3rd

> > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house.

3rd

> > > house

> > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

increases

> > > the

> > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

2nd

> > > house

> > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

straight

> > > forward

> > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the

native will

> > > lose

> > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

lagna

> > > lord

> > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

children

> > > and

> > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna

lord is

> > > in 5th

> > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

impact,

> > > since

> > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > > amplifying

> > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

first

> > > child

> > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as

well.

> > > Actually

> > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

Parasara

> > > provides

> > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

house! We

> > > are

> > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

solid

> > > reason

> > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

influence

> > > on 5th

> > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which

also

> > > > provides similar results.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will

have

> > > moderate

> > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

would be

> > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

results

> > > as

> > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

predicted

> > > only

> > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the

other

> > > available

> > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord

is in

> > > 5th

> > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

> > > mention

> > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja

has to

> > > say.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children,

> > > righteous

> > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > > a good

> > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities,

he will

> > > do

> > > > many good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > >

> > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> > > quoted as

> > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

actual

> > > > experience observed.

> > > >

> > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

children'

> > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only

says

> > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

conclusion we

> > > could

> > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his

first

> > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of

first child

> > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

malefic

> > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > > amendment is

> > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

almost the

> > > same

> > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children,

> > > righteous

> > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > > a good

> > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will do

> > > many

> > > > good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > >

> > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

angry -

> > > why?

> > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > > significator

> > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar

to

> > > sun in

> > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

possibly the

> > > lose

> > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> > > doubtful.

> > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > > combination

> > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > >

> > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to

Sun

> > > in that

> > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If

not

> > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

rule.

> > > The

> > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

Parasara

> > > such as -

> > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will

also

> > > make the

> > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic

as

> > > well.

> > > >

> > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > > without a

> > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other

in-depth

> > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all

the

> > > possible

> > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

whether the

> > > same

> > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > > signifying

> > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

child

> > > for

> > > > sure.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > > debilitation

> > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

house

> > > as

> > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

indicate

> > > loss of

> > > > child for sure.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

lord

> > > of

> > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > > Possibly the

> > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > >

> > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

debilitation sign

> > > for

> > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

Sagittarius

> > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly

the

> > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > >

> > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn

Saturn owns

> > > the

> > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

> > > results

> > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

Mercury and

> > > Saturn

> > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > >

> > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord

Venus is

> > > also

> > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

> > > placed in

> > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > >

> > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most

of the

> > > 12

> > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

child,

> > > even

> > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

Pisces

> > > Lagna.

> > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

statement

> > > without

> > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from

the deep

> > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th

is not

> > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the

brief

> > > statement

> > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss

of

> > > first

> > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

Parasara

> > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

based

> > > on

> > > > the prime condition ? Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of

the

> > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

lord in

> > > other

> > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due

to

> > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So

his

> > > opinion

> > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far

as 5th

> > > house

> > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

Meenaraja

> > > will

> > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

from

> > > all the

> > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will

see

> > > that,

> > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss

of

> > > first

> > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja

is

> > > right, but

> > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned

with the

> > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

deeper in

> > > the

> > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

situations

> > > as well

> > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

understanding

> > > about

> > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > > derivation. His

> > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is

more far

> > > and

> > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > > practical. It

> > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is

termed a

> > > sage,

> > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > >

> > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does

not

> > > allow me

> > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed

the

> > > methods

> > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with

House Base

> > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I

would

> > > suggest

> > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

cleaner

> > > and

> > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

master

> > > House

> > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities

and

> > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > > understood,

> > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

technique.

> > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

intelligence,

> > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > > recited etc.

> > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > Extract from:

> > > >

> > >

Sreenadh

> > > /La\

> > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > ==============================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Gopu ji,

==>

the anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

<==

That is a good point!

Love,

Sreenadh

, K Gopu

<kgopu_24 wrote:

>

> dear learned members,

> As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> like to share my observations. my observations are not

> from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> astrologers to correct me.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

___________________

_______________

> Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Travel.

> http://travel./

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Elaine,You don't have JuR and SaR conjunct in Sag, do you? What's your birth data?And that of your 17 y.o.?Your Me is a nice $ making and children making planet, don't be afraid of it.Sa in the 5th may have caused your miscarriages (otherwise, with Ju in the 5th and Me directly aspecting you would have had many more then 3 children)In any case, don't worry too much about your son: we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from them and grow into our Divine Humanness. NamasteElaine Gardner <egardner wrote: Namaste all J Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven’t been studying Jyotish for very long (or rather haven’t had the time to devote to it that I should because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th House---and my son. Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR conjunct and also aspected by a “benific” (Vimshopaka Bala) but Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it’s own sign) in 5th. As with many things you all

have been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to sons—I’m also reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for sons. I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I’m unsure if this is related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak accident—I was supposed to adopt his 2 son’s 2 days later,…I haven’t seen them since. I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2 daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic disorder that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he’s kind of like my little twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and academically. Despite also being diagnosed with

ADD, I began treating him with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has excelled in many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long story short is that I haven’t seen my son in over a year. His father basically kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active alcoholic and drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can’t do anything except pray and talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is taking several college courses because of his academic excellence---right now, he’s barely passing. He’s more interested in his video games (which he rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also used to have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had mantra initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY long talks with the Pandits and

elders. He no longer does his practice. I’m frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of the combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history. What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to give me a little comfort? In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and safety and keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal loophole to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct control over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a problem with

addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he’s still a minor for the next 10 months and I could force *something*. I look forward to any response, Dhyanaavad, elaine In the Mothers Divine Love Jai Ma!! Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods." - Ralph Waldo Emerson On Behalf Of zhar bird Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of child. Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would show male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would limit how many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or, especially, directly aspect the 5th house and its planets. K Gopu <kgopu_24 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: dear learned members, As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would like to share my observations. my observations are not from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the anger or the outburst will be due to the native being a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest. In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the male chart can tell whether he will get a male child or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned astrologers to correct me. good wishes, k.gopu ________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. http://travel./ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us. has notified the sender that this message has been received.

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September 29, 2007

Thank you for your reassurance J…I guess it’s

a “side effect” of studying your own chart, (along with others), to

see these things.

For reference, My BD is May 30, 1960, 11:30AM Boston, MA USA ,

(Long: 71W03’ Lat: 42N21’) My son: March 14, 1990, 10:35AM,

Tallahassee, FL USA (Long: 84W15’ Lat: 30N25’)

I assure you, I am not looking for “free readings”..just

trying to understand some of what I am learning J

Namaste

elaine

PS Haha J one more thing…I’m a momma, I think it’s part

of our “job” to *responsibly* worry about our children J I

just Thank the Divine that my son had a solid foundation…and hopefully,

this stray off his path will be a VERY short “trip” and he’ll

return to his practice and studies soon!! He’s an incredible kid, and

more than one Pandit said that he’s “a very wise old soul”..so

perhaps I shouldn’t worry as much!! J

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the

gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of zhar bird

Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:43 AM

RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

Dear Elaine,

You don't have JuR and SaR conjunct in Sag, do you? What's your birth data?

And that of your 17 y.o.?

Your Me is a nice $ making and children making planet, don't be afraid of it.

Sa in the 5th may have caused your miscarriages (otherwise, with Ju in the 5th

and Me directly aspecting you would have had many more then 3 children)

In any case, don't worry too much about your son: we need all our experiences

and all our mistakes so we can learn from them and grow into our Divine

Humanness.

Namaste

Elaine Gardner <egardner wrote:

Namaste all J

Please excuse

my ignorance in this matter as I haven’t been studying Jyotish for very

long (or rather haven’t had the time to devote to it that I should

because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th

House---and my son.

Although my LL

(Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR conjunct and also

aspected by a “benific” (Vimshopaka Bala) but Functional

malefic Mercury in 11th (it’s own sign) in 5th.

As with many things you all have been talking about—with inauspicious

results in regards to sons—I’m also reading that this placement I

have is also very inauspicious for sons. I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4

and 5 months) and I’m unsure if this is related, but almost 2 years ago

my fiancé died in a freak accident—I was supposed to adopt his 2

son’s 2 days later,…I haven’t seen them since.

I also have a

17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2

daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic

disorder that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he’s kind

of like my little twin J ).

My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and

academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began

treating him with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has

excelled in many different areas. Well, until very recently that

is. Long story short is that I haven’t seen my son in over a

year. His father basically kidnapped him and took him overseas. His

father is an active alcoholic and drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son

has been experimenting also—his dad does nothing about it, and I

can’t do anything except pray and talk to him when I can reach him.

He is a senior in High School, but is taking several college courses because of

his academic excellence---right now, he’s barely passing.

He’s more interested in his video games (which he rarely ever played

before) and getting high than studying. He also used to have a VERY

active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had mantra initiation and

attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY long talks with the Pandits

and elders. He no longer does his practice. I’m frightened of

what might happen and after reading the results of the combinations I have in

my chart—together with my past history.

What else

should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there anything

specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to give me a little

comfort?

In the

meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and safety and keep up

with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal loophole to

bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct control

over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a problem

with addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he’s still a

minor for the next 10 months and I could force *something*.

I look forward

to any response,

Dhyanaavad,

elaine

In the Mothers

Divine Love

Jai Ma!!

Let us be

silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of zhar bird

Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM

Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show

sex of child.

Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would show male;

Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would limit how many).

The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or, especially, directly

aspect the 5th house and its planets.

K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:

dear learned members,

As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

like to share my observations. my observations are not

from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

astrologers to correct me.

good wishes,

k.gopu

________

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to amazing places on Travel.

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September 29, 2007

Dear members NAMASTE Not only lagna lord but also other house lords in 5th house please discuss this also regards gayathrizhar bird <blagomot wrote: Dear Elaine,You don't have JuR and SaR conjunct in Sag, do you? What's your birth data?And that of your 17 y.o.?Your Me is a nice $ making and children making planet, don't be afraid of it.Sa in the 5th may have caused your miscarriages (otherwise, with Ju in the 5th and Me directly aspecting you would have had many

more then 3 children)In any case, don't worry too much about your son: we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from them and grow into our Divine Humanness. NamasteElaine Gardner <egardner (AT) ptd (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste all J Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven’t been studying Jyotish for very long (or rather haven’t had the time to devote to it that I should because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th House---and my

son. Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR conjunct and also aspected by a “benific” (Vimshopaka Bala) but Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it’s own sign) in 5th. As with many things you all have been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to sons—I’m also reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for sons. I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I’m unsure if this is related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak accident—I was supposed to adopt his 2 son’s 2 days later,…I haven’t seen them since. I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2 daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic disorder that I

have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he’s kind of like my little twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began treating him with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has excelled in many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long story short is that I haven’t seen my son in over a year. His father basically kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active alcoholic and drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can’t do anything except pray and talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is taking several college courses because of his academic

excellence---right now, he’s barely passing. He’s more interested in his video games (which he rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also used to have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had mantra initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY long talks with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice. I’m frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of the combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history. What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to give me a little comfort? In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and safety and keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal loophole to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct control over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a problem with addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he’s still a minor for the next 10 months and I could force *something*. I look forward to any response, Dhyanaavad, elaine In the Mothers Divine Love Jai Ma!! Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods." - Ralph Waldo Emerson On Behalf Of zhar birdFriday, September 28, 2007 11:07

PM Subject: Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of child.Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would show male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would limit how many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or, especially, directly aspect the 5th house and its planets.K Gopu <kgopu_24 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: dear learned members,As i follow the thread on the above topic in relationto anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I wouldlike to share my

observations. my observations are notfrom text books. I fail to understand as to why 5thhouse can give rise to emotional imbalance( angerbeing part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal ofprogeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition tothe family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroythe qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a badrelative into ur house, he can always destroy the goodatmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if thelagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. theanger or the outburst will be due to the native beinga perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.In regds to progeny whether a male or female only themale chart can tell whether he will get a male childor female. Because the gender chromosome factor ieXX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of theindividual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learnedastrologers to correct me. good

wishes,k.gopu________Need a vacation? Get great dealsto amazing places on Travel.http://travel./ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us. has notified the sender that this message has been received. Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Autos.

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September 29, 2007

dear elaine,

how is ur health? U were active in jyotish ganga group

run by Sri Bhaskar. I recollect u had health related

problems maybe 6months after which u werent

interacting. i am sure u must be feeling better and

coming back to normal health after the treatment. I

pray for ur good health and also ur son shud come back

to u and excel in his academics as he was earlier.

good wishes,

k.gopu

______________________________\

____

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for

today's economy) at Games.

http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

September 29, 2007

Dearest K Gopuji,

Thank you so much for your concern. My cancer was in

remission for a time, but unfortunately, the chemo had taken its toll on other

areas—such as dental and renal (due to my genetic disorder, I was born

with just one functioning kidney). After several oral surgeries, and MUCH

waiting because of insurance, this problem should be resolved within the next

month—barring any further delays. Unfortunately, my renal (kidney)

situation isn’t as easy. I currently am on “part-time”

dialysis going 3 days a week. While the cancer has returned, I remain

hopeful after another round of chemo and surgery to remove my spleen, part of

my pancreas and more lymph glands. At this time, I am foregoing any

further chemo and am going to TRY and stick to a strict Ayurvedic regimen as

that is what preceded the 6 months of remission. I have been VERY blessed

and the Divine Mother has sent me someone to help out financially so I CAN

continue with the supplements, etc. in return for teaching her some basic yoga

(Hatha) and meditation techniques—and she also purchased some of my

artwork I did this past year. J SO..overall, I’m doing MUCH

better—except for continuing to be VERY tired, which can be extremely

frustrating!!! I’ve also had a lot of computer problems which have

limited my time online these past 3-4 months. (Dell has replaced *5*

laptops so far this year!!!)

Again, thank you for enquiring and now that I’m online

again---hopefully, for awhile, I will be in touch with Bhaskarji J

Namaste

Elaine

In the Mothers divine Love and Service

Jai Ma!!

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the

gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of K Gopu

Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:54 AM

RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

dear elaine,

how is ur health? U were active in jyotish ganga group

run by Sri Bhaskar. I recollect u had health related

problems maybe 6months after which u werent

interacting. i am sure u must be feeling better and

coming back to normal health after the treatment. I

pray for ur good health and also ur son shud come back

to u and excel in his academics as he was earlier.

good wishes,

k.gopu

________

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for

today's economy) at Games.

http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

has notified the sender that this message has been received.

September 29, 2007

Dear Sreenadh ji,

---> There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to understand

fun

> or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets

irritated

> simply without reason - let us bear with it.

Exactly...no fight..to fight one needs to get angry..and for that..I

don't know about others..but my LL is not in 5H.

But I will not agree with.. " simply without reason " ...But I rest my

case..now...here.

blessings

Renu

> As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally important.

> As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

> complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

> complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

> complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

> Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same.

In

> thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

> Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be.

We

> know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht

it

> cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

> better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of

the

> pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

> usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys the

> situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It

is

> that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for

fight

> or partiality - it is not so.

> Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

> ==>

> Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

house

> or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

as

> LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

> A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

> would not be any abortion as well.

> <==

> The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly

neither

> you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under consideration

> support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

> seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL in

> 5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

> Parasara indicate such a result.

> Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

> and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

> lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

> well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

> Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to

reflect

> the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

> owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , Binod Kumar Jha

> <bkjha162@> wrote:

> >

> > Freinds,

> >

> > I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over

equality

> of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

> survive & prosper.

> >

> > Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

> >

> > What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th house

> or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

as

> LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

> would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion as

> well.

> >

> > pratima_jha

> >

> > Quoting phyllis@:

> >

> > >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > Ernst Wilhelm [ernst@]

> > September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

> >

> > RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

House

> >

> > These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are arishta

> Bhanga

> > yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still

health

> > considerations or stress during birth to the child and or

mother,

> but only

> > when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

> certainly no

> > cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

> born with

> > emergency c-section for instance.

> >

> > Jai Rama,

> >

> > Ernst

> >

> > On Behalf Of

> renunw

> > Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

> >

> > Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> >

> > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> hopeless

> > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> >

> > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

> > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

hopeless

> > child?

> > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

nothing

> to

> > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> >

> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> dominant

> > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

daughter?

> Do

> > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> malefic

> > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> horoscope?

> >

> > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

> and

> > female hold equal status in this world.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

>

September 29, 2007

,

>

> the anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> <==

> That is a good point!

Some acceptable logic...finally.

blessings

Renu

> > , K Gopu

> <kgopu_24@> wrote:

> >

> > dear learned members,

> > As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> > to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> > like to share my observations. my observations are not

> > from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> > house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> > being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> > progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> > the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> > the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> > relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> > atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> > lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> > anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> > a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> > In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> > male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> > or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> > XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> > individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> > astrologers to correct me.

> >

> > good wishes,

> > k.gopu

> >

>

___________________

> _______________

> > Need a vacation? Get great deals

> > to amazing places on Travel.

> > http://travel./

> >

>

September 29, 2007

L1 in H5 : uncertainty as to whether an abortion/misscarraige would

be indicative of the passing away of the first child - first 'born'

maybe the context, although I stress the maybe.

Anyhow if we assume that the defintion of fist child includes born

and unborn then Parashara's rule would apply in my case (I have LL

(Mars) in H5).

Regarding the anger: there are of course many other variables but as

we are isolating here we could focus on the assumption that this

configuration promotes intelligence/learning and places the native in

an authorative position. All three contribute to the growth of ego to

varying extents (particularly the 'I am right-superior' syndrome)

which naturally, when challenged causes aggression.

, " renunw "

<renunw wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> ---> There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to

understand

> fun

> > or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets

> irritated

> > simply without reason - let us bear with it.

>

> Exactly...no fight..to fight one needs to get angry..and for

that..I

> don't know about others..but my LL is not in 5H.

>

> But I will not agree with.. " simply without reason " ...But I rest my

> case..now...here.

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

>

> > As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally

important.

> > As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

> > complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

> > complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

> > complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

> > Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same.

> In

> > thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

> > Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be.

> We

> > know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht

> it

> > cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

> > better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of

> the

> > pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

> > usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys

the

> > situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It

> is

> > that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for

> fight

> > or partiality - it is not so.

> > Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

> > ==>

> > Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> house

> > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> as

> > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

> > A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

> > would not be any abortion as well.

> > <==

> > The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly

> neither

> > you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under

consideration

> > support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

> > seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL

in

> > 5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

> > Parasara indicate such a result.

> > Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

> > and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

> > lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

> > well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

> > Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to

> reflect

> > the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

> > owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Binod Kumar Jha

> > <bkjha162@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Freinds,

> > >

> > > I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over

> equality

> > of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

> > survive & prosper.

> > >

> > > Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

> > >

> > > What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

house

> > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> as

> > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

> > would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion

as

> > well.

> > >

> > > pratima_jha

> > >

> > > Quoting phyllis@:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > Ernst Wilhelm [ernst@]

> > > September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

> > >

> > > RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

> House

> > >

> > > These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are

arishta

> > Bhanga

> > > yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still

> health

> > > considerations or stress during birth to the child and or

> mother,

> > but only

> > > when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

> > certainly no

> > > cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

> > born with

> > > emergency c-section for instance.

> > >

> > > Jai Rama,

> > >

> > > Ernst

> > >

> > > On Behalf Of

> > renunw

> > > Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

> > >

> > > Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> > >

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > >

> > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > hopeless

> > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > >

> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd

and

> > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> hopeless

> > > child?

> > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> nothing

> > to

> > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> > >

> > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > dominant

> > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> daughter?

> > Do

> > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > malefic

> > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > horoscope?

> > >

> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

> > and

> > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > >

> > > blessings

> > >

> > > Renu

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Sreenadh ji

Healthy difference in opinion will lead to perfection of our

knowledge.Thank you for your open views.There can be more valid reasons.

Regds

Pradeep

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

> All our discussion in this group are of academic importance

> only. There is no economic considerations involved. If someone

> is taking (i know never you will, and i assure never i will) them

> personally, or is unable to distinguish between academic and

> personal - it is his problem, and not ours. So be brave, bold and

> proceed, criticize, argue, present new views, logics - that is what

> we are here for! We are all kids trying to understand the ideas

> presented by the sages in a better, consistent, logical, systematic,

> organized way. That is what we are doing - and that is what we will

> continue to do.

> I see your point - and appreciate the innovative way in which you

> are looking at it. But still it cant be said that I am satisfied

> with that. Yap, views differ - but it is that uniqueness that is

> valuable, and needed to shed light on a subject from all directions.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji and other members

> >

> > Pls consider my views only with academic importance.

> >

> > > But we already have the well supported rule that LL going to any

> > > house will give beneficial results to that house. Such a

> conclusion

> > > with contradict with that rule.

> >

> > You are rihgt.I would like to understand it in another way.The

> whole

> > chart is understood w.r to Lagna -His gains and deteriorations.Thus

> > the benefit is for Lagna .If Lagna lord is well placed in fourth -

> > Means he has sthana bala there ,good grahas have amsha there,and

> 4th

> > lord is strong - then he will gain from the environments held by

> 4th

> > Bhava.Here Mother does not need support from the Jataka as

> compared to

> > child represented by 5th.

> >

> > If LL is in 11th Jataka is having gains or Labha.

> >

> > But in 5th - there is a difference - unlike 4th house and Mother,

> the

> > child needs support from Jataka.Wife too needs support from

> Jataka.If

> > Lagna lord is extracting as compared to nourish,then respective

> > indications can suffer.But i agree with your point regarding 7th

> > house(enemity).

> >

> > > There too Parasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will give 'many

> > > brothers', indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

> > >house.

> >

> > Yes ,i too have mentioned that jataka will benefit from

> siblings.The

> > point is siblings may not get significant consideration from

> jataka.

> >

> > As the siblings are not totally dependent on jataka they will not

> have

> > any problem similar to the one faced by child (first) or spouse.

> > His negligence is worry for siblings and Mother not for the

> Jataka.On

> > the other hand his negligence will result in destruction of child

> and

> > wife(direct dependence).As 5th is budhi sthana the individual may

> > realize this after 1st instance.But in 7th he can be subjected to

> some

> > pleasures :-)leading to his fall or some good associations

> leading to

> > his escalation.

> >

> > As you have said the sage alone knows the reason.With GOD's grace

> we

> > are sharing whatever little that is coming to our mind.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > ==>

> > > > (If LL in 5th) his concentration is not towards nourishing the

> 5th

> > > > house but extracting from it.

> > > <==

> > > But we already have the well supported rule that LL going to any

> > > house will give beneficial results to that house. Such a

> conclusion

> > > with contradict with that rule.

> > > ==>

> > > > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

> feel

> > > > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> > > <==

> > > No that can't be said - there is well founded reason for LL

> going to

> > > 7th giving some bad results. i.e. Consider any sign, 7th HL is

> always

> > > the enemy of the LL. Parasara must have this in mind. So

> Parasara's

> > > derivations regarding LL going to 7th cannot be considered as

> > > supportive to your above argument.

> > > ==>

> > > > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get

> lot of

> > > > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > > > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> > > <==

> > > There too Parasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will

> give 'many

> > > brothers', indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

> house.

> > > ==>

> > > > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of

> Pratibha/creativity and

> > > > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

> leading to

> > > > sudden anger when disturbed.

> > > <==

> > > Yes, you have a point - LL going to any house indicate

> attachment to

> > > the things indicated by that house. In the case of 5th, as you

> said it

> > > is Children, Creativity etc. This attachment and ego could cause

> anger

> > > - but I still doubt to what extend our argument is correct.

> > > Another possibility is that 5th is 3rd (growth) from 3rd

> (anger) -

> > > thus the same could indicate growth of anger I feel; but still

> as RK

> > > ji pointed out - this could be too much extending. Therefore not

> much

> > > confident about this argument as well.

> > > ==>

> > > > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > > > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> > > <==

> > > Yes, of course I agree with it - anybody with such combination

> in

> > > his/her horoscope should note that -

> > > * what we are trying to do is NOT to predict, but rather trying

> to

> > > understand the 'House Base' result derivation technique. A

> systematic

> > > study of the results proposed by sages - to understand the

> technique

> > > involved.

> > > Thanks for pouring in your views to help us all in trying to

> > > understand the 'ways of Parasara' in a better way.

> > > Love and Hugs,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > --- In

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sreenadh ji and other learned members who have contributed

> > > >

> > > > ''If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

> have

> > > > moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his

> first

> > > > child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect

> and

> > > > reputation. He would be dear to the king.'' - Parasara

> > > >

> > > > As sage Parasara has said so ,there should be some reason.My

> views-

> > > >

> > > > 5th lord is the main party responsible for protecting 5th

> house and

> > > > not Lagna Lord.Lagna lord in 5th is pointing to the individual

> going

> > > > to the house of children/followers/Creativity/Position.Here

> the

> > > > individual is extracting something from that house as compared

> to

> > > > 5th lord going to Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > In the case of Mata Amritananda Mayi 5th lord Saturn is

> exalted in

> > > > lagna.Followers/Children are taking consort in Lagna/AMMA.They

> are

> > > > exalted or very happy there.

> > > >

> > > > Thus coming to the point - in this case the individual is not

> taking

> > > > care of child(is absent minded) but is interested in his

> gains - His

> > > > Pratibha/His positions etc.This can result in the loss of

> fisrt

> > > > child and there onwards the individual may be bit careful.Even

> then

> > > > his concentration is not towards nourishing the 5th house but

> > > > extracting from it(moderate happiness).

> > > >

> > > > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

> feel

> > > > the individual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> > > >

> > > > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - The individual might get

> lot of

> > > > help from siblings and he might not very much aware of their

> > > > difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> > > >

> > > > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of

> Pratibha/creativity and

> > > > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

> leading to

> > > > sudden anger when disturbed.Moreover being lorded by followers

> > > > and ''new things'' - creativity/children etc - Lagna might not

> be

> > > > very happy with the perfection of surroundings(immaturity).

> > > >

> > > > Regarding dear to king -I feel it is so as 5th is

> the ''Bhava''

> > > > manifesting as Ministerial environment.

> > > >

> > > > I feel many with LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > > > malefic factors are present the worst results can happen.

> > > >

> > > > Looking forward for expert views.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed

> below.

> > > > >

> > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> individual

> > > > with

> > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> righteous and

> > > > kind.

> > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > > > children and

> > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is

> some

> > > > malefic

> > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

> power

> > > > and

> > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy

> > > > a

> > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> qualities, he

> > > > will

> > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

> have

> > > > moderate

> > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

> child. He

> > > > would

> > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation.

> He

> > > > would be

> > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry

> and

> > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be -

> 5th is

> > > > 3rd

> > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house.

> 3rd

> > > > house

> > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

> increases

> > > > the

> > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

> 2nd

> > > > house

> > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> straight

> > > > forward

> > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the

> native will

> > > > lose

> > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

> lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

> children

> > > > and

> > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna

> lord is

> > > > in 5th

> > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

> impact,

> > > > since

> > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > > > amplifying

> > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

> first

> > > > child

> > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as

> well.

> > > > Actually

> > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

> Parasara

> > > > provides

> > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

> house! We

> > > > are

> > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

> solid

> > > > reason

> > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

> influence

> > > > on 5th

> > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which

> also

> > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will

> have

> > > > moderate

> > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

> would be

> > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

> results

> > > > as

> > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

> predicted

> > > > only

> > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the

> other

> > > > available

> > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord

> is in

> > > > 5th

> > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

> > > > mention

> > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> related

> > > > issue

> > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja

> has to

> > > > say.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> children,

> > > > righteous

> > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy

> > > > a good

> > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities,

> he will

> > > > do

> > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> > > > quoted as

> > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

> actual

> > > > > experience observed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

> children'

> > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only

> says

> > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> conclusion we

> > > > could

> > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his

> first

> > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of

> first child

> > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

> malefic

> > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > > > amendment is

> > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

> almost the

> > > > same

> > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> children,

> > > > righteous

> > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy

> > > > a good

> > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

> will do

> > > > many

> > > > > good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

> angry -

> > > > why?

> > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > > > significator

> > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar

> to

> > > > sun in

> > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> possibly the

> > > > lose

> > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> > > > doubtful.

> > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > > > combination

> > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to

> Sun

> > > > in that

> > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If

> not

> > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

> rule.

> > > > The

> > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> Parasara

> > > > such as -

> > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will

> also

> > > > make the

> > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > >

> > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > > > without a

> > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other

> in-depth

> > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all

> the

> > > > possible

> > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

> whether the

> > > > same

> > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > > > signifying

> > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

> child

> > > > for

> > > > > sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > > > debilitation

> > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

> house

> > > > as

> > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> indicate

> > > > loss of

> > > > > child for sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

> lord

> > > > of

> > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > > > Possibly the

> > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> debilitation sign

> > > > for

> > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> Sagittarius

> > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly

> the

> > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn

> Saturn owns

> > > > the

> > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

> > > > results

> > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

> Mercury and

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord

> Venus is

> > > > also

> > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

> > > > placed in

> > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most

> of the

> > > > 12

> > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

> child,

> > > > even

> > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

> Pisces

> > > > Lagna.

> > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> statement

> > > > without

> > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from

> the deep

> > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th

> is not

> > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the

> brief

> > > > statement

> > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss

> of

> > > > first

> > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

> Parasara

> > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

> based

> > > > on

> > > > > the prime condition ? Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of

> the

> > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

> lord in

> > > > other

> > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due

> to

> > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So

> his

> > > > opinion

> > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far

> as 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

> Meenaraja

> > > > will

> > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

> from

> > > > all the

> > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will

> see

> > > > that,

> > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss

> of

> > > > first

> > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja

> is

> > > > right, but

> > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned

> with the

> > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

> deeper in

> > > > the

> > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> situations

> > > > as well

> > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> understanding

> > > > about

> > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > > > derivation. His

> > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is

> more far

> > > > and

> > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > > > practical. It

> > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is

> termed a

> > > > sage,

> > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > >

> > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does

> not

> > > > allow me

> > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed

> the

> > > > methods

> > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with

> House Base

> > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I

> would

> > > > suggest

> > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

> cleaner

> > > > and

> > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

> master

> > > > House

> > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities

> and

> > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > > > understood,

> > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

> technique.

> > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> intelligence,

> > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > > > recited etc.

> > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > > > importance to

> > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > Extract from:

> > > > >

> > > >

> Sreenadh

> > > > /La\

> > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Elean ji,

You said:

==>

I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) ..

<==

Parasara is deriving the result " lose of first son/daughter " for in

case LL in 5th house. Note that the result apply ONLY to the FIRST

child, and not to others. If the miscarried sons where the first

children - the result is over; and the later results you have

mentioned has nothing to do with the said combination.

It is really sad to hear such a story - and let us pray to god for

every thing to take a beneficial turn.

You said:

==>

> Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

> conjunct and also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but

> Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th.

<==

Thus -

In Leo : Lagna

5th (Sg) : Su, JuR, SaR

11th (Ge) : Me

Let us see what this minimum information can tell us -

* LL in 5th : Lose of first child

* 5th lord in 5th: Many children, happiness from children

* 5th lord in 5th, aspected by Me (in own house): Many children,

happiness from children, good education to children, affection and

attachment between mother and children.

* Malefic (Sa) in 5th: lose of children (abortions)

* 7th lord in 5th: separation from husband (divorce), husband and

your self having multiple relations.

* 6th lord in 5th: Friends cheating you, you are selfish as well as

kind, living a life with enough wealth, will become enemy to son. Even

if you do something to favor the son he may take it otherwise.

* 11th lord in 11th: good earnings, good education.

* Me aspecting Ju: Good education to children.

* 6th lord in 5th conjucting Ju (significator of children): Disease

affecting children.

Thus, most of the results you are going through is indicated by the

horoscope. Note that the special benefic result " happiness from

children, good education to children, affection and attachment between

mother and children " is also indicated by the chart. So hope for the

best, and try act in that direction.

There is no better remedy to mould the destiny and gain the peace of

mind than meditation. Let the blessings of all be with you.

As Zar ji said, in any case don't worry too much -

==>

we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from

them and grow into our Divine Humanness.

<==

Except that what we are left with - the path is in that direction -

all events leading to the same.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " Elaine Gardner "

<egardner wrote:

>

> Namaste all J

>

> Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven't been studying

Jyotish

> for very long (or rather haven't had the time to devote to it that I

should

> because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th

House---and my

> son.

>

> Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

conjunct and

> also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but Functional malefic

> Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th. As with many things you all

have

> been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to sons—I'm also

> reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for

sons. I

> have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I'm unsure if this is

> related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak accident—I was

> supposed to adopt his 2 son's 2 days later,…I haven't seen them since.

>

> I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2

> daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic

disorder

> that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he's kind of like

my little

> twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and

> academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began

treating him

> with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has excelled in

> many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long

story short

> is that I haven't seen my son in over a year. His father basically

> kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active

alcoholic and

> drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting

> also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can't do anything except

pray and

> talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is

> taking several college courses because of his academic

excellence---right

> now, he's barely passing. He's more interested in his video games

(which he

> rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also

used to

> have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had

mantra

> initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY

long talks

> with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice. I'm

> frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of the

> combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history.

>

> What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there

> anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to

give me a

> little comfort?

>

> In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and

safety and

> keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal

loophole

> to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct

control

> over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a

problem with

> addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he's still a minor for

the next

> 10 months and I could force *something*.

>

> I look forward to any response,

>

> Dhyanaavad,

>

> elaine

>

> In the Mothers Divine Love

>

> Jai Ma!!

>

> Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo

> Emerson

>

> On Behalf Of zhar bird

> Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM

>

> Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of

child.

> Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would

show

> male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would

limit how

> many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or,

especially,

> directly aspect the 5th house and its planets.

>

> K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:

>

> dear learned members,

> As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> like to share my observations. my observations are not

> from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> astrologers to correct me.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

> ________

> Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Travel.

> http://travel./

>

> _____

>

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join

>

<http://us.rd./evt=48516/*http:/surveylink./gmrs/_pan

> el_invite.asp?a=7%20> 's user panel and lay it on us.

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Shri Atma Gnan

Is Jupiter aspecting your 5th lord or Mars.

Regds

Pradeep

, " atma_gnan "

<atma_gnan wrote:

>

> L1 in H5 : uncertainty as to whether an abortion/misscarraige would

> be indicative of the passing away of the first child - first 'born'

> maybe the context, although I stress the maybe.

>

> Anyhow if we assume that the defintion of fist child includes born

> and unborn then Parashara's rule would apply in my case (I have LL

> (Mars) in H5).

>

> Regarding the anger: there are of course many other variables but as

> we are isolating here we could focus on the assumption that this

> configuration promotes intelligence/learning and places the native in

> an authorative position. All three contribute to the growth of ego to

> varying extents (particularly the 'I am right-superior' syndrome)

> which naturally, when challenged causes aggression.

>

> , " renunw "

> <renunw@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji,

> >

> > ---> There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to

> understand

> > fun

> > > or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets

> > irritated

> > > simply without reason - let us bear with it.

> >

> > Exactly...no fight..to fight one needs to get angry..and for

> that..I

> > don't know about others..but my LL is not in 5H.

> >

> > But I will not agree with.. " simply without reason " ...But I rest my

> > case..now...here.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> > > As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally

> important.

> > > As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

> > > complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

> > > complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

> > > complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

> > > Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same.

> > In

> > > thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

> > > Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be.

> > We

> > > know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht

> > it

> > > cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

> > > better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of

> > the

> > > pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

> > > usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys

> the

> > > situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It

> > is

> > > that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for

> > fight

> > > or partiality - it is not so.

> > > Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

> > > ==>

> > > Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> > house

> > > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> > as

> > > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

> > > A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

> > > would not be any abortion as well.

> > > <==

> > > The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly

> > neither

> > > you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under

> consideration

> > > support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

> > > seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL

> in

> > > 5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

> > > Parasara indicate such a result.

> > > Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

> > > and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

> > > lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

> > > well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

> > > Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to

> > reflect

> > > the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

> > > owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Binod Kumar Jha

> > > <bkjha162@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Freinds,

> > > >

> > > > I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over

> > equality

> > > of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

> > > survive & prosper.

> > > >

> > > > Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

> > > >

> > > > What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> house

> > > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> > as

> > > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

> > > would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion

> as

> > > well.

> > > >

> > > > pratima_jha

> > > >

> > > > Quoting phyllis@:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > Ernst Wilhelm [ernst@]

> > > > September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

> > > >

> > > > RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

> > House

> > > >

> > > > These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are

> arishta

> > > Bhanga

> > > > yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still

> > health

> > > > considerations or stress during birth to the child and or

> > mother,

> > > but only

> > > > when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

> > > certainly no

> > > > cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

> > > born with

> > > > emergency c-section for instance.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Rama,

> > > >

> > > > Ernst

> > > >

> > > > On Behalf Of

> > > renunw

> > > > Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

> > > >

> > > > Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > >

> > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > > hopeless

> > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > > >

> > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd

> and

> > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> > hopeless

> > > > child?

> > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> > nothing

> > > to

> > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> > > >

> > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > > dominant

> > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> > daughter?

> > > Do

> > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > > malefic

> > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > > horoscope?

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

> > > and

> > > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > > >

> > > > blessings

> > > >

> > > > Renu

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Gayatri ji,

The current thread is on " Lagna lord in various houses, and some

more houses still pending. The prime resource is:

Sreenadh/Lagna%20lo\

rd%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

Once the same is over, we will take up the other houses as well as the

time permits.

Note: Actually we am are trying to cover all the folds of the 7-fold

methods (make a search in group messages to know more about it) -

" House Base " being one of them (Which happens to include " Lagna lord

in various houses " ). Possibly we may leave this discussion on houses

all together and move on to other sections as well. The techniques

discussed are only mean to be a guidance to further independent

individual study only.

Love,

Sreenadh

, Gayathri Karra

<gr_karra wrote:

>

> Dear members

> NAMASTE

> Not only lagna lord but also other house lords in 5th house

please discuss this also

> regards

> gayathri

> zhar bird <blagomot wrote:

> Dear Elaine,

> You don't have JuR and SaR conjunct in Sag, do you? What's your

birth data?

> And that of your 17 y.o.?

> Your Me is a nice $ making and children making planet, don't be

afraid of it.

> Sa in the 5th may have caused your miscarriages (otherwise, with Ju

in the 5th and Me directly aspecting you would have had many more then

3 children)

> In any case, don't worry too much about your son: we need all our

experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from them and grow

into our Divine Humanness.

> Namaste

>

> Elaine Gardner <egardner wrote:

> Namaste all J

> Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven't been

studying Jyotish for very long (or rather haven't had the time to

devote to it that I should because of illness)—but I DO have a

question concerning 5th House---and my son.

> Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

conjunct and also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but

Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th. As with

many things you all have been talking about—with inauspicious results

in regards to sons—I'm also reading that this placement I have is also

very inauspicious for sons. I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5

months) and I'm unsure if this is related, but almost 2 years ago my

fiancé died in a freak accident—I was supposed to adopt his 2 son's 2

days later,…I haven't seen them since.

> I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along

with 2 daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a

genetic disorder that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he's

kind of like my little twin J ). My son has done excellent all his

life—both physically and academically. Despite also being diagnosed

with ADD, I began treating him with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many

years ago and he has excelled in many different areas. Well, until

very recently that is. Long story short is that I haven't seen my son

in over a year. His father basically kidnapped him and took him

overseas. His father is an active alcoholic and drug addict and in

the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting also—his dad does

nothing about it, and I can't do anything except pray and talk to him

when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is taking

several college courses because of his academic excellence---right

now, he's barely passing. He's

> more interested in his video games (which he rarely ever played

before) and getting high than studying. He also used to have a VERY

active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had mantra

initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY long

talks with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice.

I'm frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of

the combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history.

> What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is

there anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something

to give me a little comfort?

>

> In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and

safety and keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find

a legal loophole to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really

have no direct control over the situation. Of course, even if he was

here, and has a problem with addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at

least he's still a minor for the next 10 months and I could force

*something*.

> I look forward to any response,

> Dhyanaavad,

> elaine

>

> In the Mothers Divine Love

> Jai Ma!!

>

> Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo Emerson

>

On Behalf Of zhar bird

> Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM

>

> Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show

sex of child.

> Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would

show male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa

would limit how many). The same planets affect sex and number if they

rule or, especially, directly aspect the 5th house and its planets.

>

> K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:

> dear learned members,

> As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> like to share my observations. my observations are not

> from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> astrologers to correct me.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

> ________

> Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Travel.

> http://travel./

>

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's

user panel and lay it on us.

>

> has notified the sender that this message has been received.

>

> Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Autos.

>

> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone

who knows.

> Answers - Check it out.

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Elaine ji,

I am feeling much thankful to you for having such a blessed soul in

this group, who could keep her joyous soul even in all these hardships

and feel blessed.. Thanks a lot...

With Love and warms hugs,

Sreenadh

, " Elaine Gardner "

<egardner wrote:

>

> Dearest K Gopuji,

>

> Thank you so much for your concern. My cancer was in remission for

a time,

> but unfortunately, the chemo had taken its toll on other areas-such as

> dental and renal (due to my genetic disorder, I was born with just one

> functioning kidney). After several oral surgeries, and MUCH waiting

because

> of insurance, this problem should be resolved within the next

month-barring

> any further delays. Unfortunately, my renal (kidney) situation isn't as

> easy. I currently am on " part-time " dialysis going 3 days a week.

While

> the cancer has returned, I remain hopeful after another round of

chemo and

> surgery to remove my spleen, part of my pancreas and more lymph

glands. At

> this time, I am foregoing any further chemo and am going to TRY and

stick to

> a strict Ayurvedic regimen as that is what preceded the 6 months of

> remission. I have been VERY blessed and the Divine Mother has sent me

> someone to help out financially so I CAN continue with the

supplements, etc.

> in return for teaching her some basic yoga (Hatha) and meditation

> techniques-and she also purchased some of my artwork I did this past

year. J

> SO..overall, I'm doing MUCH better-except for continuing to be VERY

tired,

> which can be extremely frustrating!!! I've also had a lot of computer

> problems which have limited my time online these past 3-4 months.

(Dell has

> replaced *5* laptops so far this year!!!)

>

> Again, thank you for enquiring and now that I'm online

again---hopefully,

> for awhile, I will be in touch with Bhaskarji J

>

> Namaste

>

> Elaine

>

> In the Mothers divine Love and Service

>

> Jai Ma!!

>

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo

> Emerson

>

> On Behalf Of K Gopu

> Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:54 AM

>

> RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> dear elaine,

> how is ur health? U were active in jyotish ganga group

> run by Sri Bhaskar. I recollect u had health related

> problems maybe 6months after which u werent

> interacting. i am sure u must be feeling better and

> coming back to normal health after the treatment. I

> pray for ur good health and also ur son shud come back

> to u and excel in his academics as he was earlier.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

> ________

> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's

updated

> for today's economy) at Games.

> http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Renu ji,

I was NOT AT ALL referring to you!

I just meant I was making a joyous response to you.. Hope you see

the point.

Love and Hugs,

Sreenadh

, " renunw " <renunw

wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> ---> There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to understand

> fun

> > or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets

> irritated

> > simply without reason - let us bear with it.

>

> Exactly...no fight..to fight one needs to get angry..and for that..I

> don't know about others..but my LL is not in 5H.

>

> But I will not agree with.. " simply without reason " ...But I rest my

> case..now...here.

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

>

> > As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally important.

> > As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

> > complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

> > complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

> > complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

> > Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same.

> In

> > thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

> > Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be.

> We

> > know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht

> it

> > cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

> > better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of

> the

> > pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

> > usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys the

> > situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It

> is

> > that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for

> fight

> > or partiality - it is not so.

> > Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

> > ==>

> > Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> house

> > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> as

> > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

> > A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

> > would not be any abortion as well.

> > <==

> > The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly

> neither

> > you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under consideration

> > support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

> > seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL in

> > 5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

> > Parasara indicate such a result.

> > Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

> > and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

> > lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

> > well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

> > Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to

> reflect

> > the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

> > owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Binod Kumar Jha

> > <bkjha162@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Freinds,

> > >

> > > I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over

> equality

> > of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

> > survive & prosper.

> > >

> > > Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

> > >

> > > What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th house

> > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> as

> > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

> > would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion as

> > well.

> > >

> > > pratima_jha

> > >

> > > Quoting phyllis@:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > Ernst Wilhelm [ernst@]

> > > September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

> > >

> > > RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

> House

> > >

> > > These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are arishta

> > Bhanga

> > > yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still

> health

> > > considerations or stress during birth to the child and or

> mother,

> > but only

> > > when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

> > certainly no

> > > cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

> > born with

> > > emergency c-section for instance.

> > >

> > > Jai Rama,

> > >

> > > Ernst

> > >

> > > On Behalf Of

> > renunw

> > > Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

> > >

> > > Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> > >

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > >

> > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > hopeless

> > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > >

> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

> > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> hopeless

> > > child?

> > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> nothing

> > to

> > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> > >

> > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > dominant

> > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> daughter?

> > Do

> > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > malefic

> > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > horoscope?

> > >

> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

> > and

> > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > >

> > > blessings

> > >

> > > Renu

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dear Atma ji,

* An abortion is enough i believe: so your chart with LL in H5 also

proves the validity of the derivation put forward by Parasara.

==>

> this configuration (LL in 5H) promotes intelligence/learning and

> places the native in an authoritative position. All three contribute

> to the growth of ego to varying extents (particularly the 'I am

> right-superior' syndrome) which naturally, when challenged causes

> aggression.

<==

Well said! This + the 'Perfectionist syndrome' as put forward by

Gopu ji solves the problem I think – to a satisfactory extend.

So the question to all: Shall we move on to LL in 6th? What are the

points you agree and disagree regarding that? Refer to the following

doc - if necessory. Let us start discussing.

Sreenadh/Lagna%20lo\

rd%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

Love,

Sreenadh

, " atma_gnan "

<atma_gnan wrote:

>

> L1 in H5 : uncertainty as to whether an abortion/misscarraige would

> be indicative of the passing away of the first child - first 'born'

> maybe the context, although I stress the maybe.

>

> Anyhow if we assume that the defintion of fist child includes born

> and unborn then Parashara's rule would apply in my case (I have LL

> (Mars) in H5).

>

> Regarding the anger: there are of course many other variables but as

> we are isolating here we could focus on the assumption that this

> configuration promotes intelligence/learning and places the native in

> an authorative position. All three contribute to the growth of ego to

> varying extents (particularly the 'I am right-superior' syndrome)

> which naturally, when challenged causes aggression.

>

> , " renunw "

> <renunw@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji,

> >

> > ---> There is no fight, but only the lack of ability to

> understand

> > fun

> > > or joyous friendly messages of some members. They gets

> > irritated

> > > simply without reason - let us bear with it.

> >

> > Exactly...no fight..to fight one needs to get angry..and for

> that..I

> > don't know about others..but my LL is not in 5H.

> >

> > But I will not agree with.. " simply without reason " ...But I rest my

> > case..now...here.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> > > As you rightly mentioned Male and Females are equally

> important.

> > > As astrology and spirituality teaches us Siva-Sakti is

> > > complementary; Male-Female is complementary; Sun-Moon is

> > > complementary (in astrology); all the seemingly opposite things

> > > complement each other. Good-Bad; War-Pease;God-Devil;Heven-

> > > Hell;Sadness-Happiness;Benefic-Malefic all examples for the same.

> > In

> > > thinking approaches Analytic-Holistic is example for the same.

> > > Without all of them complementing each other the world cannot be.

> > We

> > > know that - and that is why we can we joyously state (knowing tht

> > it

> > > cannot be true - but for fun) that Male is better or Female is

> > > better - when we encounter ppl who erroneously is at one side of

> > the

> > > pendulum. When we see such ppl, an individual who knows this,

> > > usually takes the other stand and provide arguments and enjoys

> the

> > > situation - and thus tries to bring the other into balance. It

> > is

> > > that simple. Never mistake such funful, joyous exercise for

> > fight

> > > or partiality - it is not so.

> > > Now coming to your statement regarding astrology -

> > > ==>

> > > Q: What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> > house

> > > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> > as

> > > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius .

> > > A: In all such cases there would be no harm to children or there

> > > would not be any abortion as well.

> > > <==

> > > The question is OK, but not your answer. Because possibly

> > neither

> > > you verified it with horoscopes, nor the texts under

> consideration

> > > support it. First, we need to verify it with horoscopes, since no

> > > seemingly evident logic is visible to support the same (i.e. LL

> in

> > > 5th giving trouble to Cp or Aq) even though the sloka provided by

> > > Parasara indicate such a result.

> > > Your example contains an error as far as considering Sg as Lagna

> > > and LL in 5th house Aries. Note that lord of Aries, i.e. Mars, is

> > > lord of 12th house from Lagna, i.e. Scorpio as well. As you know

> > > well 12th house can indicate loss or death, as suggested by

> > > Parasara. For Sg lagna, LL in 5th house Aries is supposed to

> > reflect

> > > the result of both Aries and Scorpio since both these signs are

> > > owned by Mars, the depositor of Ju - in this case.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Binod Kumar Jha

> > > <bkjha162@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Freinds,

> > > >

> > > > I am extremely sorry to read about immotional fight over

> > equality

> > > of male & female. Both are equally important for this universe to

> > > survive & prosper.

> > > >

> > > > Please dont fight over issue of equality of male and female.

> > > >

> > > > What will happen if moon as a lagna lord is placed in 5th

> house

> > > or Jupiter as lagna lord is placed in 5th house 'Aries' or Venus

> > as

> > > LL is placed in 5th house in Aquarius . In all such cases there

> > > would be no harm to children or there would not be any abortion

> as

> > > well.

> > > >

> > > > pratima_jha

> > > >

> > > > Quoting phyllis@:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > Ernst Wilhelm [ernst@]

> > > > September 27, 2007 11:40 AM

> > > >

> > > > RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

> > House

> > > >

> > > > These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are

> arishta

> > > Bhanga

> > > > yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still

> > health

> > > > considerations or stress during birth to the child and or

> > mother,

> > > but only

> > > > when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and

> > > certainly no

> > > > cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies

> > > born with

> > > > emergency c-section for instance.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Rama,

> > > >

> > > > Ernst

> > > >

> > > > On Behalf Of

> > > renunw

> > > > Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

> > > >

> > > > Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > >

> > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > > hopeless

> > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > > >

> > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd

> and

> > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> > hopeless

> > > > child?

> > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> > nothing

> > > to

> > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> > > >

> > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > > dominant

> > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> > daughter?

> > > Do

> > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > > malefic

> > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > > horoscope?

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

> > > and

> > > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > > >

> > > > blessings

> > > >

> > > > Renu

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2007

Dearest Sreenadji,

Thank you so much for these interpretations!! I was using

Parasharas Lite which gave me very different results. Did you get your results

directly from BPHS? I’d been told that that is where PL gets its

interpretations from—but, I’m afraid I’ve never checked to

compare. I’m afraid I’ve found it MUCH more difficult these past 9

months to concentrate and focus than I have before and I haven’t been as

meticulous in my studies as I should be. I think I should put the plethora of

books I’ve collected aside for the time being and just concentrate on

learning the interpretations from the classics!! I’m also spoiled—as

I think many are—with using the software to do much of the leg work I

should be doing myself. As a beginner, and with no prior experience in

astrology, it can get overwhelming at times trying to sift through the vast

amount of information required to learn.

THANK YOU for this group and taking the time to methodically go

through these vital pieces of the sacred Jyotish “puzzle”!!

It is making it MUCH easy to put the pieces together!!

Namaste!!

elaine

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the

gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

Saturday, September 29, 2007 10:25 AM

Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

Dear Elean ji,

You said:

==>

I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) ..

<==

Parasara is deriving the result " lose of first son/daughter " for in

case LL in 5th house. Note that the result apply ONLY to the FIRST

child, and not to others. If the miscarried sons where the first

children - the result is over; and the later results you have

mentioned has nothing to do with the said combination.

It is really sad to hear such a story - and let us pray to god for

every thing to take a beneficial turn.

You said:

==>

> Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

> conjunct and also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but

> Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th.

<==

Thus -

In Leo : Lagna

5th (Sg) : Su, JuR, SaR

11th (Ge) : Me

Let us see what this minimum information can tell us -

* LL in 5th : Lose of first child

* 5th lord in 5th: Many children, happiness from children

* 5th lord in 5th, aspected by Me (in own house): Many children,

happiness from children, good education to children, affection and

attachment between mother and children.

* Malefic (Sa) in 5th: lose of children (abortions)

* 7th lord in 5th: separation from husband (divorce), husband and

your self having multiple relations.

* 6th lord in 5th: Friends cheating you, you are selfish as well as

kind, living a life with enough wealth, will become enemy to son. Even

if you do something to favor the son he may take it otherwise.

* 11th lord in 11th: good earnings, good education.

* Me aspecting Ju: Good education to children.

* 6th lord in 5th conjucting Ju (significator of children): Disease

affecting children.

Thus, most of the results you are going through is indicated by the

horoscope. Note that the special benefic result " happiness from

children, good education to children, affection and attachment between

mother and children " is also indicated by the chart. So hope for the

best, and try act in that direction.

There is no better remedy to mould the destiny and gain the peace of

mind than meditation. Let the blessings of all be with you.

As Zar ji said, in any case don't worry too much -

==>

we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from

them and grow into our Divine Humanness.

<==

Except that what we are left with - the path is in that direction -

all events leading to the same.

Love,

Sreenadh

,

" Elaine Gardner "

<egardner wrote:

>

> Namaste all J

>

> Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven't been studying

Jyotish

> for very long (or rather haven't had the time to devote to it that I

should

> because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th

House---and my

> son.

>

> Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

conjunct and

> also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but Functional

malefic

> Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th. As with many things you all

have

> been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to

sons—I'm also

> reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for

sons. I

> have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I'm unsure if this is

> related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak accident—I

was

> supposed to adopt his 2 son's 2 days later,…I haven't seen them

since.

>

> I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2

> daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic

disorder

> that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he's kind of like

my little

> twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and

> academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began

treating him

> with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has excelled in

> many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long

story short

> is that I haven't seen my son in over a year. His father basically

> kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active

alcoholic and

> drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting

> also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can't do anything except

pray and

> talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is

> taking several college courses because of his academic

excellence---right

> now, he's barely passing. He's more interested in his video games

(which he

> rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also

used to

> have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has had

mantra

> initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY

long talks

> with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice. I'm

> frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of the

> combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history.

>

> What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there

> anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to

give me a

> little comfort?

>

> In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and

safety and

> keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal

loophole

> to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct

control

> over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a

problem with

> addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he's still a minor for

the next

> 10 months and I could force *something*.

>

> I look forward to any response,

>

> Dhyanaavad,

>

> elaine

>

> In the Mothers Divine Love

>

> Jai Ma!!

>

> Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo

> Emerson

>

On Behalf Of zhar bird

> Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM

>

> Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of

child.

> Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would

show

> male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would

limit how

> many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or,

especially,

> directly aspect the 5th house and its planets.

>

> K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:

>

> dear learned members,

> As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> like to share my observations. my observations are not

> from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> astrologers to correct me.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

> ________

> Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Travel.

> http://travel./

>

> _____

>

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join

>

<http://us.rd./evt=48516/*http:/surveylink./gmrs/_pan

> el_invite.asp?a=7%20> 's user panel and lay it on us.

>

has notified the sender that this message has been received.

September 29, 2007

Dearest Sreenadhji,

Thank you sir, but in the past year and a half, there was

certainly a period that I succumbed to fear, confusion and depression. Luckily,

it was a short period, and I honestly feel that it was the result of abandoning

my own practice and daily meditation that preceded it. Thank heavens, that

with the Divine Mothers Grace—(my son said that in my stubbornness, She

had to do the equivalent of “hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer”

to “bring me back” J), I returned to my practice and also

vowed at the time to take up the studies (Jyotish, Ayurveda and I’m

taking a Sanskrit course) that I am involved with now. Dealing with death in

the most personal manner, (both with my fiancé and my own diagnosis) has taught

me more lessons than I ever believed I could learn in such a short period.

BUT, I still have a LOT to learn and with the Mothers continued Grace, I’ll

keep giving it my best effort—One day at a time. J

Namaste,

elaine

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the

gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

Saturday, September 29, 2007 10:44 AM

Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

Dear Elaine ji,

I am feeling much thankful to you for having such a blessed soul in

this group, who could keep her joyous soul even in all these hardships

and feel blessed.. Thanks a lot...

With Love and warms hugs,

Sreenadh

,

" Elaine Gardner "

<egardner wrote:

>

> Dearest K Gopuji,

>

> Thank you so much for your concern. My cancer was in remission for

a time,

> but unfortunately, the chemo had taken its toll on other areas-such as

> dental and renal (due to my genetic disorder, I was born with just one

> functioning kidney). After several oral surgeries, and MUCH waiting

because

> of insurance, this problem should be resolved within the next

month-barring

> any further delays. Unfortunately, my renal (kidney) situation isn't as

> easy. I currently am on " part-time " dialysis going 3 days a

week.

While

> the cancer has returned, I remain hopeful after another round of

chemo and

> surgery to remove my spleen, part of my pancreas and more lymph

glands. At

> this time, I am foregoing any further chemo and am going to TRY and

stick to

> a strict Ayurvedic regimen as that is what preceded the 6 months of

> remission. I have been VERY blessed and the Divine Mother has sent me

> someone to help out financially so I CAN continue with the

supplements, etc.

> in return for teaching her some basic yoga (Hatha) and meditation

> techniques-and she also purchased some of my artwork I did this past

year. J

> SO..overall, I'm doing MUCH better-except for continuing to be VERY

tired,

> which can be extremely frustrating!!! I've also had a lot of computer

> problems which have limited my time online these past 3-4 months.

(Dell has

> replaced *5* laptops so far this year!!!)

>

> Again, thank you for enquiring and now that I'm online

again---hopefully,

> for awhile, I will be in touch with Bhaskarji J

>

> Namaste

>

> Elaine

>

> In the Mothers divine Love and Service

>

> Jai Ma!!

>

> Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo

> Emerson

>

On Behalf Of K Gopu

> Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:54 AM

>

> RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> dear elaine,

> how is ur health? U were active in jyotish ganga group

> run by Sri Bhaskar. I recollect u had health related

> problems maybe 6months after which u werent

> interacting. i am sure u must be feeling better and

> coming back to normal health after the treatment. I

> pray for ur good health and also ur son shud come back

> to u and excel in his academics as he was earlier.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

> ________

> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's

updated

> for today's economy) at Games.

> http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

>

has notified the sender that this message has been received.

September 29, 2007

Dear Litsolji,

Please refer to Message #2998 which has both mine and my

sons, (Christopher), birthdata.

Thank you for your interest. J

Namaste

elaine

In the Divine Mothers Love and Service

Jai Ma!!!!

Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the

gods. " - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of litsol

Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:16 PM

Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

Dear Elaine,

Can u send pls. ur birh details along with name and

longitude/lattitude of the place of birth. This w'd help us as well

as you to understand ur case better ways.

regards,

Lalit.

,

" Elaine Gardner "

<egardner wrote:

>

> Dearest Sreenadji,

>

> Thank you so much for these interpretations!! I was using

Parasharas

> Lite which gave me very different results. Did you get your results

> directly from BPHS? I'd been told that that is where PL gets its

> interpretations from—but, I'm afraid I've never checked to

compare. I'm

> afraid I've found it MUCH more difficult these past 9 months to

concentrate

> and focus than I have before and I haven't been as meticulous in my

studies

> as I should be. I think I should put the plethora of books I've

collected

> aside for the time being and just concentrate on learning the

> interpretations from the classics!! I'm also spoiled—as I think

many

> are—with using the software to do much of the leg work I should be

doing

> myself. As a beginner, and with no prior experience in astrology,

it can

> get overwhelming at times trying to sift through the vast amount of

> information required to learn.

>

> THANK YOU for this group and taking the time to methodically go

through

> these vital pieces of the sacred Jyotish " puzzle " !!

>

> It is making it MUCH easy to put the pieces together!!

>

> Namaste!!

>

> elaine

>

> Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

Ralph Waldo

> Emerson

>

On Behalf Of

Sreenadh

> Saturday, September 29, 2007 10:25 AM

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

>

> Dear Elean ji,

> You said:

> ==>

> I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) ..

> <==

> Parasara is deriving the result " lose of first son/daughter " for

in

> case LL in 5th house. Note that the result apply ONLY to the FIRST

> child, and not to others. If the miscarried sons where the first

> children - the result is over; and the later results you have

> mentioned has nothing to do with the said combination.

> It is really sad to hear such a story - and let us pray to god for

> every thing to take a beneficial turn.

> You said:

> ==>

> > Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

> > conjunct and also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala)

but

> > Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th.

> <==

> Thus -

> In Leo : Lagna

> 5th (Sg) : Su, JuR, SaR

> 11th (Ge) : Me

> Let us see what this minimum information can tell us -

> * LL in 5th : Lose of first child

> * 5th lord in 5th: Many children, happiness from children

> * 5th lord in 5th, aspected by Me (in own house): Many children,

> happiness from children, good education to children, affection and

> attachment between mother and children.

> * Malefic (Sa) in 5th: lose of children (abortions)

> * 7th lord in 5th: separation from husband (divorce), husband and

> your self having multiple relations.

> * 6th lord in 5th: Friends cheating you, you are selfish as well as

> kind, living a life with enough wealth, will become enemy to son.

Even

> if you do something to favor the son he may take it otherwise.

> * 11th lord in 11th: good earnings, good education.

> * Me aspecting Ju: Good education to children.

> * 6th lord in 5th conjucting Ju (significator of children): Disease

> affecting children.

>

> Thus, most of the results you are going through is indicated by the

> horoscope. Note that the special benefic result " happiness from

> children, good education to children, affection and attachment

between

> mother and children " is also indicated by the chart. So hope for the

> best, and try act in that direction.

> There is no better remedy to mould the destiny and gain the peace of

> mind than meditation. Let the blessings of all be with you.

> As Zar ji said, in any case don't worry too much -

> ==>

> we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn

from

> them and grow into our Divine Humanness.

> <==

> Except that what we are left with - the path is in that direction -

> all events leading to the same.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> <%40> , " Elaine

Gardner "

> <egardner@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste all J

> >

> > Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven't been

studying

> Jyotish

> > for very long (or rather haven't had the time to devote to it

that I

> should

> > because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th

> House---and my

> > son.

> >

> > Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR

> conjunct and

> > also aspected by a " benific " (Vimshopaka Bala) but

Functional

malefic

> > Mercury in 11th (it's own sign) in 5th. As with many things you

all

> have

> > been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to

sons—

I'm also

> > reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for

> sons. I

> > have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I'm unsure if this

is

> > related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak

accident—I was

> > supposed to adopt his 2 son's 2 days later,…I haven't seen them

since.

> >

> > I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along

with 2

> > daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a

genetic

> disorder

> > that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he's kind of

like

> my little

> > twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both

physically

and

> > academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began

> treating him

> > with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has

excelled in

> > many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long

> story short

> > is that I haven't seen my son in over a year. His father basically

> > kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active

> alcoholic and

> > drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been

experimenting

> > also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can't do anything

except

> pray and

> > talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School,

but is

> > taking several college courses because of his academic

> excellence---right

> > now, he's barely passing. He's more interested in his video games

> (which he

> > rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also

> used to

> > have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice of his own, has

had

> mantra

> > initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY

> long talks

> > with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice. I'm

> > frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of

the

> > combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history.

> >

> > What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is

there

> > anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to

> give me a

> > little comfort?

> >

> > In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and

> safety and

> > keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal

> loophole

> > to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no

direct

> control

> > over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a

> problem with

> > addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he's still a minor

for

> the next

> > 10 months and I could force *something*.

> >

> > I look forward to any response,

> >

> > Dhyanaavad,

> >

> > elaine

> >

> > In the Mothers Divine Love

> >

> > Jai Ma!!

> >

> > Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods. " -

> Ralph Waldo

> > Emerson

> >

> <%40>

> > [

> <%40> ] On Behalf Of

zhar bird

> > Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM

> >

> <%40>

> > Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th

House

> >

> > You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of

> child.

> > Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun

would

> show

> > male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would

> limit how

> > many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or,

> especially,

> > directly aspect the 5th house and its planets.

> >

> > K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote:

> >

> > dear learned members,

> > As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation

> > to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would

> > like to share my observations. my observations are not

> > from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th

> > house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger

> > being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of

> > progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to

> > the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy

> > the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad

> > relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good

> > atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the

> > lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the

> > anger or the outburst will be due to the native being

> > a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest.

> > In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the

> > male chart can tell whether he will get a male child

> > or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

> > XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the

> > individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned

> > astrologers to correct me.

> >

> > good wishes,

> > k.gopu

> >

> > ________

> > Need a vacation? Get great deals

> > to amazing places on Travel.

> > http://travel./

> >

> > _____

> >

> > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join

> >

>

<http://us.rd./evt=48516/*http:/surveylink./gmrs/yah

oo_pan

> > el_invite.asp?a=7%20> 's user panel and lay it on us.

> >

>

has notified the sender that this message has been received.

September 30, 2007

dear Mrs.elaine,

At the outset I once again pray for ur good health. I

appreciate ur strong determination to fight against

such dreaded condition like cancer. I sincerely pray

that u come out of this difficult situation and may

God be with u.

with good wishes,

k.gopu

______________________________\

____

Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Autos.

http://autos./new_cars.html

September 30, 2007

Hi, Elaine!My brief analysis of both of your charts reveals many similarities. But you are also the opposites: You are naturally spiritually inclined (despite vivid ambition and desire and ability to stand on your own 2 feet) (Me ruler of 2 in 11, LL in 10), as the ruler of 12 in 12, and it is vulnerable sensitive baby-me Moon. My understanding, Ketu in 7th weakens your health and relationships though.Your Son with Rahu in the 9th is more earthy. But you gave him great foundation and education (ruler of 2nd + 5th in the 9th - he is also lucky). He will do well for himself (ruler of 4th in 11th), despite his anger (strong Mars, ruler of 12th + 7th, in the 9th and aspecting Moon to boot).Interestingly, Sa is an atma karaka for both of you - but the lessons are completely different!Just remember, it is children who choose their parents, and the reasons of their souls' choices are not obvious without seeing karma of past lives - so we, parents, are not truly

responsible for their lives. Our only responsibility is to ourselves: to do our parenting best - which you have obviously done.Namaste!Elaine Gardner <egardner wrote: Thank you for your reassurance J…I guess it’s a “side effect” of studying your own chart, (along with others), to

see these things. For reference, My BD is May 30, 1960, 11:30AM Boston, MA USA , (Long: 71W03’ Lat: 42N21’) My son: March 14, 1990, 10:35AM, Tallahassee, FL USA (Long: 84W15’ Lat: 30N25’) I assure you, I am not looking for “free readings”..just trying to understand some of what I am learning J Namaste elaine PS Haha J one more thing…I’m a momma, I think it’s part of our “job” to *responsibly* worry about our children J I just Thank the Divine that my son had a solid foundation…and hopefully, this stray off his path will be a VERY short “trip” and he’ll return to his practice and studies soon!! He’s an incredible kid, and more than one Pandit said that he’s “a very wise old soul”..so perhaps I shouldn’t worry as much!! J Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

On Behalf Of zhar bird Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:43 AM RE: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House Dear Elaine, You don't have JuR and SaR conjunct in Sag, do you? What's your birth data? And that of your 17 y.o.? Your Me is a nice $ making and children making planet, don't be afraid of it. Sa in the 5th may have caused your miscarriages (otherwise, with Ju in the 5th and Me directly aspecting you would have had many more then 3 children) In any case, don't worry too much about your son: we need all our experiences and all our mistakes so we can learn from them and grow into our Divine Humanness.

Namaste Elaine Gardner <egardner (AT) ptd (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste all J Please excuse my ignorance in this matter as I haven’t been studying Jyotish for very long (or rather haven’t had the time to devote to it that I should because of illness)—but I DO have a question concerning 5th House---and my son. Although my LL (Sun) is not placed in 5th, I have JuR and SaR conjunct and also aspected by a “benific” (Vimshopaka

Bala) but Functional malefic Mercury in 11th (it’s own sign) in 5th. As with many things you all have been talking about—with inauspicious results in regards to sons—I’m also reading that this placement I have is also very inauspicious for sons. I have miscarried 2 sons (at 4 and 5 months) and I’m unsure if this is related, but almost 2 years ago my fiancé died in a freak accident—I was supposed to adopt his 2 son’s 2 days later,…I haven’t seen them since. I also have a 17year old son..who is my pride and joy. (along with 2 daughters—but, my son was born with the exact mutation of a genetic disorder that I have—the doctors have NEVER seen this, so he’s kind of like my little twin J ). My son has done excellent all his life—both physically and academically. Despite also being diagnosed with ADD, I began treating him with herbal and ayurvedic remedies many years ago and he has excelled in many different areas. Well, until very recently that is. Long story short is that I haven’t seen my son in over a year. His father basically kidnapped him and took him overseas. His father is an active alcoholic and drug addict and in the past 3-4 months my son has been experimenting also—his dad does nothing about it, and I can’t do anything except pray and talk to him when I can reach him. He is a senior in High School, but is taking several college courses because of his academic excellence---right now, he’s barely passing. He’s more interested in his video games (which he rarely ever played before) and getting high than studying. He also used to have a VERY active yoga and meditation practice

of his own, has had mantra initiation and attended the Temple with me frequently having VERY long talks with the Pandits and elders. He no longer does his practice. I’m frightened of what might happen and after reading the results of the combinations I have in my chart—together with my past history. What else should I be looking at in my chart, if anything? Is there anything specific I can look for in his chart---maybe something to give me a little comfort? In the meantime, I pray to the Divine Mother for his health and safety and keep up with my own practice. Until, and unless I can find a legal

loophole to bring him back or force his fathers hand…I really have no direct control over the situation. Of course, even if he was here, and has a problem with addiction—it would be tough. BUT, at least he’s still a minor for the next 10 months and I could force *something*. I look forward to any response, Dhyanaavad, elaine In the Mothers Divine Love Jai Ma!! Let us be silent, that we may hear the whispers of the gods." - Ralph Waldo Emerson On Behalf Of zhar bird

Friday, September 28, 2007 11:07 PM Re: Re: Lagna lord in 5th House You are very wrong in regards of only male chart would show sex of child. Study the rest of chart, i.e. other planets in 5th (mars + sun would show male; Venus - female; Moon, Ju+Me would show more than 1; Sa would limit how many). The same planets affect sex and number if they rule or, especially, directly aspect the 5th house and its planets. K Gopu <kgopu_24 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: dear learned

members, As i follow the thread on the above topic in relation to anger if the lagna lord is in 5th bhave, I would like to share my observations. my observations are not from text books. I fail to understand as to why 5th house can give rise to emotional imbalance( anger being part of emotion). 5th will be more ideal of progeny because it is 2nd from 4th ( ie addition to the family). if lagna lord is a malefic it can destroy the qualities of that bhava. It is like u allow a bad relative into ur house, he can always destroy the good atmosphere of the house. anger is more seen if the lagna lord is in lagna in particular sun, mars. the anger or the outburst will be due to the native being a perfectionist and he expects the same from the rest. In regds to progeny whether a male or female only the male chart can tell whether he will get a male child or female. Because the gender chromosome factor ie

XX(female) and XY(male) lies only in sperm of the individual. I may be wrong, but i wud like learned astrologers to correct me. good wishes, k.gopu ________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. http://travel./ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us.

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September 30, 2007

Dear Sreenadhji,

Thanks for your valued comments.

U are talkingof 7 -fold approach. I also fully agree to that. Therefore, it becomesmore important to study chart in totallity. While going through basictreasureos Astrology written by Parasar, Mansagari, etc they haveelaborated upon characteristics of a person born under differentconstallation, different lagna , differnt moon rashi. Similarly theyhave disscussed about placement of different planets in different housesand in combination with each other etc.

I have gone through hundreds ofchart having few "rajyogs" but they are of normal means. On the otherhand without any raj yoga people have become millionnaire. This isbecause placement of one particular planet in particular does not decidefate of the person.

Whether we agree or not we must not generalise arule. I prefer to read any combination with reference to placement ofother planets in natat chart and divisional chart.

Thanks. But , Iread your comments suggetions keenly . Those are veryeducative,

yours

pratima_jha

\\Quoting sreesog:

> Dear Pratima ji,

==>

> In my opinion placingof LL in 5th house should not be considered

in isolation .

==

IfParasara, Meenaraja and many others did the same to teach us

themethodology of result derivation - we too can do the same I

think. Orbetter it should be stated that - We MUST do the same to

learn themethedology well. There is no other way for systematic

learning of7-fold approach of astrology.

All the other things you mention arenever considered by the sages

to deduce the said derivation - then whyshould we, I wonder! Hope

you see the point.

Of course you areright in stating that if many other indication

regarding the same isALSO present in the chart the

result/derivation is EMPHASISED. Let usnot confuce A DERIVATION and

CUMULATIVE EMPHASIS gained by a result bymultiple derivations

pointing to the same result.

Love,

Sreenadh

, bkjha162wrote:

>

> In my opinion placing of LL in 5th house should not beconsidered

in isolation . If LL is friendly to lord of 5th house or LLis

positively placed in 5th house, if it has aspect of strong benefics

Venus , Jup then there would be positive result in cases like birth

of child, their education, own intelligence etc.

>

> If maleficsparticularly Mars, Rahu and Sun in that order is LL

and placed in 5thhouse, then without any exception there would be

abortion / death offirst child in males chart and bad tempered

child, handicapped etc ifsame happens in males chart....

>

> Pratima_jha

>

> Quoting sreesog:

>

>> Dear Pradeep,

> ==>

> > (If LL in 5th) his concentration is nottowards nourishing the

5th

> > house but extracting from it.

>==

> But we already have the well supported rule that LL going toany

> house will give beneficial results to that house. Such aconclusion

> with contradict with that rule.

> ==>

> > Parasara hasalso said the same regarding LL in the 7th.Here i

feel

> > theindividual is extracting from 7th and looking at 1st.

> ==

> Nothat can't be said - there is well founded reason for LL

going to

>7th giving some bad results. i.e. Consider any sign, 7th HL is

always

> the enemy of the LL. Parasara must have this in mind. SoParasara's

> derivations regarding LL going to 7th cannot be consideredas

> supportive to your above argument.

> ==>

> > Similarly i feelif LL is in 3rd - The individual might get lot

of

> > help fromsiblings and he might not very much aware of their

> >difficulties(irresponsible in their matters).

> ==

> There tooParasara is saying that LL going to 3rd will give 'many

> brothers',indicating that LL going to 3rd is beneficial for 3rd

house.

>==>

> > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house of Pratibha/creativity

and

> > Lagna will be in a state of concentration and involvement

leading to

> > sudden anger when disturbed.

> ==

> Yes, youhave a point - LL going to any house indicate

attachment to

> thethings indicated by that house. In the case of 5th, as you

said it

>is Children, Creativity etc. This attachment and ego could cause

anger

> - but I still doubt to what extend our argument is correct.

> Another possibility is that 5th is 3rd (growth) from 3rd (anger)-

> thus the same could indicate growth of anger I feel; but still as

RK

> ji pointed out - this could be too much extending. Therefore not

much

> confident about this argument as well.

> ==>

> > I feel manywith LL in 5th may not worry, as only if multiple

> > malefic factorsare present the worst results can happen.

> ==

> Yes, of course Iagree with it - anybody with such combination in

> his/her horoscopeshould note that -

> * what we are trying to do is NOT to predict, butrather trying to

> understand the 'House Base' result derivationtechnique. A

systematic

> study of the results proposed by sages - tounderstand the

technique

> involved.

> Thanks for pouring in yourviews to help us all in trying to

> understand the 'ways of Parasara'in a better way.

> Love and Hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> --- In

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji and other learnedmembers who have contributed

> >

> > ''If lagna lord is in 5th, thenative would be angry; will have

> > moderate well-being fromchildren. The native will lose his

first

> > child. He would be aproud individual with much self-respect and

> > reputation. He wouldbe dear to the king.'' - Parasara

> >

> > As sage Parasara has saidso ,there should be some reason.My

views-

> >

> > 5th lord is themain party responsible for protecting 5th house

and

> > not LagnaLord.Lagna lord in 5th is pointing to the individual

going

> > tothe house of children/followers/Creativity/Position.Here the

> >individual is extracting something from that house as compared

to

>> 5th lord going to Lagna.

> >

> > In the case of Mata AmritanandaMayi 5th lord Saturn is exalted

in

> > lagna.Followers/Children aretaking consort in Lagna/AMMA.They

are

> > exalted or very happythere.

> >

> > Thus coming to the point - in this case the individualis not

taking

> > care of child(is absent minded) but is interestedin his gains -

His

> > Pratibha/His positions etc.This can result inthe loss of fisrt

> > child and there onwards the individual may bebit careful.Even

then

> > his concentration is not towardsnourishing the 5th house but

> > extracting from it(moderatehappiness).

> >

> > Parasara has also said the same regarding LL inthe 7th.Here i

feel

> > the individual is extracting from 7th andlooking at 1st.

> >

> > Similarly i feel if LL is in 3rd - Theindividual might get lot

of

> > help from siblings and he might notvery much aware of their

> > difficulties(irresponsible in theirmatters).

> >

> > Regarding anger - I feel it is the house ofPratibha/creativity

and

> > Lagna will be in a state ofconcentration and involvement

leading to

> > sudden anger whendisturbed.Moreover being lorded by followers

> > and ''new things'' -creativity/children etc - Lagna might not

be

> > very happy with theperfection of surroundings(immaturity).

> >

> > Regarding dear toking -I feel it is so as 5th is the ''Bhava''

> > manifesting asMinisterial environment.

> >

> > I feel many with LL in 5th may notworry, as only if multiple

> > malefic factors are present the worstresults can happen.

> >

> > Looking forward for expert views.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > --- In , "Sreenadh"

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The results forLagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

> > >

> > >==============================================

> > > Lagna lord in 5thHouse

> > > -----------------------------

> > >

> > > If lagna lordis in 5th, the native would be proud an

individual

> > with

> > >much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous

and

>> kind.

> > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-beingfrom

> > children and

> > > may lose his first child as well,especially if there is some

> > malefic

> > > influence on 5th house.He would be dear to the people with

power

> > and

> > > authority.He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> > a

> > >good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

qualities, he

>> will

> > > do many good deeds.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in5th, the native would be angry; will have

> > moderate

> > >well-being from children. The native will lose his first

child. He

>> would

> > > be a proud individual with much self-respect andreputation.

He

> > would be

> > > dear to the king.

> > >

> > >- Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th makethe native an angry and

> > > aggressive individual? One of the logicbehind could be - 5th

is

> > 3rd

> > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya(increase) stana of 3rd house.

3rd

> > house

> > > signify angerand possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

increases

> > the

> > >anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

2nd

> >house

> > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native astraight

> > forward

> > > individual. It is also mentioned in thesloka that the native

will

> > lose

> > > his first child - why?The natural expectation would be that

lagna

> > lord

> > > in 5thshould bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

children

> >and

> > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagnalord

is

> > in 5th

> > > is afflicted by some malefic, then itwould have double

impact,

> > since

> > > the same would affectboth the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > amplifying

> > > thepossibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

first

> >child

> > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child aswell.

> > Actually

> > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenarajahora. But Parasara

> > provides

> > > no such clue about any requiredmalefic influence in 5th

house! We

> > are

> > > wonder stuck bythis derivation, and we fail to imagine any

solid

> > reason

> > >behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

influence

> >on 5th

> > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available,which

also

> > > provides similar results.

> > >

> > > If lagnalord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

> > moderate

> >> well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

wouldbe

> > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

>> >

> > > - Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Apart from minor differencesthis sloka gives almost same

results

> > as

> > > above. It seemsthat, the loss of first child should be

predicted

> > only

> > > ifthere is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

> >available

> > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagnalord is

in

> > 5th

> > > house. [Note that similar to in this slokaParasara will not

> > mention

> > > `if the lagna lord is malefic andplaced in x house' in many

> > > other slokas as well. We willencounter this writing style

> > > in many otherinstances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has

to

> > say.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority orrulership and will

enjoy

> > a good

> > > eventful and enjoyablelife. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will

> > do

> > > many gooddeeds.

> > >

> > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > >

> > > In one printedversion of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> > quoted as

> > >Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

actual

> >> experience observed.

> > >

> > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagnalord in 5th `provides

children'

> > > and does not `destroychildren'. Even though Parasara only says

> > > that `lose of firstchild could happen', he too does not say

> > > that `the native willnot have children'. If we combine the

> > > statements of both Parasaraand Meenaraja the only conclusion

we

> > could

> > > reach is `Thenative will have children, but he may loss his

first

> > > child aswell'. But it should be noted that the loss of first

child

> > > doesnot seems to be logically supported in the absence of

malefic

> > >influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> >amendment is

> > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepamis almost

the

> > same

> > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > >

> > >If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> >righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership andwill

enjoy

> > a good

> > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed withgood qualities, he will

do

> > many

> > > good deeds.

> > >

> >> - Hora Pradeepam

> > >

> > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5thwould make the native

angry -

> > why?

> > > Clearly any directlogic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > significator

> > > ofLagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar

to

> > sunin

> > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly

the

> > lose

> > > of first child as well. But is it a correctapproach? I am

> > doubtful.

> > > Only verifying the actual resultsfrom charts with similar

> > combination

> > > can shed some light onthis issue.

> > >

> > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should betreated similar to

Sun

> > in that

> > > house, since Sun is thenatural significator of Lagna.

> > >

> > > I am a bit doubtful aboutthe validity of the above rule. If

not

> > > supported by actualresults it is better to ignore the above

rule.

> > The

> > > logicsupplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > >satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara

> >such as -

> > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; itwill

also

> > make the

> > > native an angry individual. Thereshould be some other logic

as

> > well.

> > >

> > > On retrospectwe feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > without a

> > >sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > >benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > >prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-

depth

>> > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

> >possible

> > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and checkwhether

the

> > same

> > > can cause the loss of child -

> > >

>> > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> >signifying

> > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicateloss of

child

> > for

> > > sure.

> > >

> > > 2) Taurus lagna,lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > debilitation

> > > signfor Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

house

> >as

> > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate

> > loss of

> > > child for sure.

> > >

> > > 3) Gemini lagna,lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

lord

> > of

> > > Libraowns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > Possiblythe

> > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > >

> > > 4)Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

sign

> >for

> > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> >>

> > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

Sagittarius

> > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thuscertainly the

> > > combination can indicate the loss or death ofchild.

> > >

> > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord ofCapricorn Saturn

owns

> > the

> > > 6th house as well. Possibly thecombination can indicate bad

> > results

> > > such as loss of child- amended by the fact that both Mercury

and

> > Saturn

> > > areimbecile planets.

> > >

> > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Notethat lagna lord Venus

is

> > also

> > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8thlord is a malefic, and a malefic

> > placed in

> > > 5th can indicatelose of child.

> > >

> > > If you continue this analysis, you couldsee that for most of

the

> > 12

> > > signs, lagna lord placed in5th can indicate the loss of

child,

> > even

> > > though the samedoes not match perfectly for Aquarius and

Pisces

> > Lagna.

> > >Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement

> >without

> > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung fromthe

deep

> > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lordin 5th is

not

> > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallizedinto the brief

> > statement

> > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicatebad results such as - loss of

> > first

> > > child and anger'. Thenis it that Meenaraja was wrong and

Parasara

> > > was right? No, itis not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

based

> > on

> > > theprime condition ? Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > >combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > >Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the

> > >zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

lord in

>> other

> > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th,due to

> > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself.So

his

> > opinion

> > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. Butyou know the Signs in

> > > Zodiac, they have some specific connectionto death as far as

5th

> > house

> > > is concerned. So yourgeneral derivation as proposed by

Meenaraja

> > will

> > > not workin this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

from

> > allthe

> > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you willsee

> > that,

> > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad resultssuch as loss of

> > first

> > > child and anger'. It must be thisdeeper understanding which

> > > prompted Parasara to suggest such aresult. Yes, Meenaraja is

> > right, but

> > > Parasara is also notoff the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with

the

> > > general logic ofthe derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper

in

> > the

> > >general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

situations

> >as well

> > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

understanding

> > about

> > > the zodiacal context, and may mix itwith general result

> > derivation. His

> > > thought andunderstanding penetrates into deaths; and is more

far

> > and

> > >wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> >practical. It

> > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasarais termed

a

> > sage,

> > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > >

> > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

> > allow me

> > > to pardon him - because here to derive the resulthe mixed the

> > methods

> > > of Sign-House Base result derivation,while dealing with House

Base

> > > result derivation - causingconfusion to the learner. I would

> > suggest

> > > that, in thiscontext, the beginners should stick to the

cleaner

> > and

> > >systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

master

>> House

> > > Base result derivation technique. The deeperpossibilities and

> > > modification to the suggested results shoulddealt with and

> > understood,

> > > while trying to learn Sign-HouseBase result derivation

technique.

> > > The 5th house signifiesthings such as - children,

intelligence,

> > > creativity, genius,stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > recited etc.

> > > Thusthe placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > importanceto

> > > the derivations related to the same.

> > >

> > > Extractfrom:

> > >

> >

Sreenadh

> > /La

> > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > >==============================================

> > > Love,

> > >Sreenadh

> > >

> >

>

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Lagna lord in 5th House

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