Lagna lord in 5th House

January 1, 2003

|| Jaya Jagannatha ||

Dear Sanjay Prabhakaran,

Thank you for putting this query. Actually most of us know many such

sutras, however we don't question, why does it make sense! I also read

this before, and didn't question. However, this mail put me into

thinking.

Generally, when a lord is placed in a house, we assume that the lord

behaves somewhat like the karaka of the house and we see the interaction

of the lord with the karaka of the house it is placed. Using the same

principle, we may think this as the result of the placement of Sun in

the 5th house. However, this explains only the part of the Sutra Viz.,

1. He will be honourable and favourite to king - Royal Planet Sun placed

in the trine.

2. Given to anger - fiery Sun's placement in the trine.

The native will be intelligent as the karaka of 5th is Jupiter and it is

affecting on the Dhi (Lagna lord) and the interaction of Sun and Jup is

pretty healthy.

However, the question asked by you is not answered, by the relationship

which I defined above. However, if you take the natural zodiac, the

natural 5th is Leo and the Badhakesh for Leo is the 9th lord, or the

badhakashathana becomes Aries, which is the lagna of the natural zodiac.

So the Lagnesh becomes the badhakesh for the natural 5th. The placement

of the badhakesh in any house shall show the problem related to that

house. Hence the lgnesha placed in the 5th house shows the native shall

have mediocre happiness. I would guess that if the sambandha of the

karaka of the 1st and 5th was not that good, the happiness would have

been nil. However, because of the healthy relationship between the Lagna

and the 5th karaka, Sun and Jup, the evil placement of the badhakesh is

countered to a large extent, giving at least some happiness.

If somebody clarify why does it show loss of first child, it would be

really great. I guess, probably Sun signify one or the leader.

Pranaam

Sarajit Poddar

sanjayprabhakaran <sprabhakaran

[sprabhakaran]

01 January 2003 05:22

[sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Lagna lord in 5th house

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Gurudeva and Jyotishas,

I was thinking why lagna lord in 5th is told to give bad effects in

terms of children longevity and anger.

lagneshe sutage jantoH sutasaukhyaM cha madhyamam.h |

prathamApatyanAshaH syAnmAnI krodhI nR^ipapriyaH || BPHS 24.5

(santanam)||

5. If Lagn's Lord is in Putr Bhava, the native will have mediocre

progenic happiness, will lose his first child, be honourable, given

to anger and be dear to king.

Similar view is also in CoVA and HTJH-How to Judge Horoscope

BVRaman.

Thank you,

Warm Regards,

S. Prabhakaran

[Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]

Send a blank mail

To : -

September 27, 2007

Dear All,

The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

==============================================

Lagna

lord in 5th House

-----------------------------

If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual

with much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous and kind.

He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from children and may

lose his first child as well, especially if there is some malefic influence on

5th house. He would be dear to the people with power and authority. He will

have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good eventful and enjoyable

life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do many good deeds.

If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child.

He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would

be dear to the king.

- Parasara Hora

Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and

aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is 3rd from 3rd

house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd house signify anger and

possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th increases the anger and agitation of the

native. But also not that 5th is 2nd house from 4th (simple and humble mind)

making the native a straight forward individual. It is also mentioned in the

sloka that the native will lose his first child - why? The natural expectation

would be that lagna lord in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

providing children and happiness from children to the native. Of course if

lagna lord is in 5th is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

impact, since the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

amplifying the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first

child the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. Actually

this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara provides no such

clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! We are wonder stuck by

this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid reason behind such a

derivation in the absence of any malefic influence on 5th house. Another

version of the same sloka is available, which also provides similar results.

If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will

have moderate well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would

be angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

- Parasara Hora

Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results

as above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted only if

there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other available slokas

give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in 5th house. [Note that

similar to in this sloka Parasara will not mention `if the lagna lord is

malefic and placed in x house' in many other slokas as well. We will encounter

this writing style related issue in many other instances as well] Let us see

what Meenaraja has to say.

If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children, righteous and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy a good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will

do many good deeds.

- Meenaraja Hora

In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

quoted as Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual

experience observed.

Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children'

and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says that `lose of first child could happen', he too

does not say that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we could reach is

`The native will have children, but he may loss his first child as well'. But

it should be noted that the loss of first child does not seems to be logically

supported in the absence of malefic influence on 5th house - this was my

initial inference. (An amendment is proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora

Pradeepam is almost the same as that of Meenaraja.

If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children, righteous and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy a good eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do

many good deeds.

- Hora Pradeepam

Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry

- why? Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural significator

of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to sun in 5th,

then the above derivation would be justified and possibly the lose of first

child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am doubtful. Only verifying the

actual results from charts with similar combination can shed some light on this

issue.

Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house

should be treated similar to Sun in that house, since Sun is the natural

significator of Lagna.

I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not

supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above rule. The

logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to satisfactorily

explain the strong results proposed by Parasara such as - Lagna lord in 5th

causing the loss of first child; it will also make the native an angry

individual. There should be some other logic as well.

On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

without a sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base prediction? That

is not logical. There could be some other in-depth reason. Yes, you are right -

there is. Let us analyze all the possible houses and lagna lord in their fifth

house, and check whether the same can cause the loss of child -

1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

signifying less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of child

for sure.

2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

debilitation sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th house

as well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate loss of child

for sure.

3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord

of Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. Possibly the

combination can indicate loss or death.

4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

sign for Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

Sagittarius Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn

owns the 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad results

such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and Saturn are

imbecile planets.

7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is

also the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic placed in 5th

can indicate lose of child.

If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the

12 signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, even though

the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces Lagna. Thus it

becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement without base or without

understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep understanding that `for all

the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not favorably placed, and this can be

crystallized into the brief statement - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad

results such as - loss of first child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was

wrong and Parasara was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

based on the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But Parasara's

amendment springs from his deep understanding of the zodiac. He knew that the

general statement regarding lagna lord in other houses may not be completely

true for lagna lord in 5th, due to essential mutually co-related nature of the

signs itself. So his opinion would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know

the Signs in Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th

house is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja will

not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from all the signs

and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see that, lagna lord in

5th can signify many bad results such as loss of first child and anger'. It

must be this deeper understanding which prompted Parasara to suggest such a

result. Yes, Meenaraja is right, but Parasara is also not off the mark.

Meenaraja is concerned with the general logic of the derivation only, but

Parasara goes deeper in the general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in

other situations as well the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

understanding about the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

derivation. His thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more

far and wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more practical. It

is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a sage, but

Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

allow me to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the methods

of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House Base result

derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would suggest that, in this

context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner and systematic approach

proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master House Base result derivation

technique. The deeper possibilities and modification to the suggested results

should dealt with and understood, while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

derivation technique.

The

5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, creativity,

genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns recited etc. Thus the placement

of lagna lord in 5th generates special importance to the derivations related to

the same.

Extract from:

Sreenadh/Lagna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

==============================================

Love,

Sreenadh

September 27, 2007

Dear Srinadh,

Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with

horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the

consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in 5'th

house.

A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the first

child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is an

extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I

remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may

denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as with

reference to 5'th house.

If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as

learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the obsecure

cases is required.

same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a

person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so

should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the life.

This is what i observed.

regards,

Lalit.

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

>

> ==============================================

> Lagna lord in 5th House

> -----------------------------

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual

with

> much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous and

kind.

> He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

children and

> may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some

malefic

> influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power

and

> authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a

> good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will

> do many good deeds.

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

moderate

> well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He

would

> be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He

would be

> dear to the king.

>

> - Parasara Hora

>

> Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and

> aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is 3rd

> from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd

house

> signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th increases

the

> anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd

house

> from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight

forward

> individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native will

lose

> his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that lagna

lord

> in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing children

and

> happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is

in 5th

> is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact,

since

> the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

amplifying

> the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first

child

> the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well.

Actually

> this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara

provides

> no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! We

are

> wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid

reason

> behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence on

5th

> house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also

> provides similar results.

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

moderate

> well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would be

> angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

>

> - Parasara Hora

>

> Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results as

> above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted

only

> if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

available

> slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in 5th

> house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not mention

> `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style related

issue

> in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to

say.

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

righteous

> and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a

good

> eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will

do

> many good deeds.

>

> - Meenaraja Hora

>

> In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is quoted

as

> Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual

> experience observed.

>

> Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children'

> and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says

> that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we

could

> reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first

> child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first child

> does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic

> influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

amendment is

> proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost the

same

> as that of Meenaraja.

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

righteous

> and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a

good

> eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do

many

> good deeds.

>

> - Hora Pradeepam

>

> Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry -

why?

> Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

significator

> of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to sun

in

> 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly the

lose

> of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am doubtful.

> Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

combination

> can shed some light on this issue.

>

> Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun in

that

> house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

>

> I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not

> supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above rule.

The

> logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara such

as -

> Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also

make the

> native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as

well.

>

> On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

without a

> sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-depth

> reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

possible

> houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the

same

> can cause the loss of child -

>

> 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

signifying

> less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of child

for

> sure.

>

> 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

debilitation

> sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th house

as

> well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate loss

of

> child for sure.

>

> 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord of

> Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

Possibly the

> combination can indicate loss or death.

>

> 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation sign

for

> Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

>

> 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of Sagittarius

> Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

> combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

>

> 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn owns

the

> 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad results

> such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and

Saturn

> are imbecile planets.

>

> 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is

also

> the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic placed

in

> 5th can indicate lose of child.

>

> If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the 12

> signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, even

> though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces

Lagna.

> Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement

without

> base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep

> understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not

> favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief

statement

> - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of first

> child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara

> was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result based

on

> the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the

> zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord in

other

> houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to

> essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his

opinion

> would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th

house

> is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja

will

> not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from all

the

> signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see that,

> lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of first

> child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is

right, but

> Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the

> general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in

the

> general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations as

well

> the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding

about

> the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

derivation. His

> thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far

and

> wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

practical. It

> is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a

sage,

> but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

>

> But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

allow me

> to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the

methods

> of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House Base

> result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would

suggest

> that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner and

> systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master

House

> Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and

> modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

understood,

> while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique.

> The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence,

> creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns recited

etc.

> Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

importance to

> the derivations related to the same.

>

> Extract from:

>

Sreenadh/

La\

> gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> ==============================================

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Lalit ji,

Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn!

Love,

Sreenadh

, " litsol "

<mlalit wrote:

>

> Dear Srinadh,

>

> Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with

> horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the

> consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in

5'th

> house.

>

> A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the

first

> child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is

an

> extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I

> remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may

> denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as with

> reference to 5'th house.

>

> If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

> right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as

> learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the obsecure

> cases is required.

>

> same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

> this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a

> person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so

> should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the life.

>

> This is what i observed.

>

> regards,

> Lalit.

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

> >

> > ==============================================

> > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > -----------------------------

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual

> with

> > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous

and

> kind.

> > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> children and

> > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some

> malefic

> > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power

> and

> > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy a

> > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities,

he

> will

> > do many good deeds.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

> moderate

> > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child.

He

> would

> > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He

> would be

> > dear to the king.

> >

> > - Parasara Hora

> >

> > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and

> > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is

3rd

> > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd

> house

> > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

increases

> the

> > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd

> house

> > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight

> forward

> > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native

will

> lose

> > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

lagna

> lord

> > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

children

> and

> > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is

> in 5th

> > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact,

> since

> > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> amplifying

> > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first

> child

> > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well.

> Actually

> > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara

> provides

> > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house!

We

> are

> > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid

> reason

> > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence

on

> 5th

> > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also

> > provides similar results.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

> moderate

> > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would

be

> > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> >

> > - Parasara Hora

> >

> > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results

as

> > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted

> only

> > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

> available

> > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in

5th

> > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

mention

> > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to

> say.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> righteous

> > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy

a

> good

> > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will

> do

> > many good deeds.

> >

> > - Meenaraja Hora

> >

> > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

quoted

> as

> > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual

> > experience observed.

> >

> > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children'

> > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says

> > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we

> could

> > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first

> > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first

child

> > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic

> > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> amendment is

> > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost

the

> same

> > as that of Meenaraja.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> righteous

> > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy

a

> good

> > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do

> many

> > good deeds.

> >

> > - Hora Pradeepam

> >

> > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry -

> why?

> > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> significator

> > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to

sun

> in

> > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly

the

> lose

> > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

doubtful.

> > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> combination

> > can shed some light on this issue.

> >

> > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun

in

> that

> > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> >

> > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not

> > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

rule.

> The

> > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara

such

> as -

> > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also

> make the

> > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as

> well.

> >

> > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> without a

> > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-

depth

> > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

> possible

> > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the

> same

> > can cause the loss of child -

> >

> > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> signifying

> > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

child

> for

> > sure.

> >

> > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> debilitation

> > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

house

> as

> > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate

loss

> of

> > child for sure.

> >

> > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord

of

> > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> Possibly the

> > combination can indicate loss or death.

> >

> > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

sign

> for

> > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> >

> > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

Sagittarius

> > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

> > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> >

> > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn

owns

> the

> > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

results

> > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and

> Saturn

> > are imbecile planets.

> >

> > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is

> also

> > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

placed

> in

> > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> >

> > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the

12

> > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child,

even

> > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces

> Lagna.

> > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement

> without

> > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep

> > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not

> > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief

> statement

> > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of

first

> > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara

> > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

based

> on

> > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the

> > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord

in

> other

> > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to

> > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his

> opinion

> > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th

> house

> > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja

> will

> > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from

all

> the

> > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see

that,

> > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of

first

> > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is

> right, but

> > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the

> > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in

> the

> > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations

as

> well

> > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding

> about

> > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> derivation. His

> > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far

> and

> > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> practical. It

> > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a

> sage,

> > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> >

> > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

> allow me

> > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the

> methods

> > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House

Base

> > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would

> suggest

> > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner

and

> > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master

> House

> > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and

> > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> understood,

> > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique.

> > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence,

> > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

recited

> etc.

> > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> importance to

> > the derivations related to the same.

> >

> > Extract from:

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> La\

> > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > ==============================================

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Srinadh,

Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u

tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i saw, u

urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but just

stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up.

I suggested something for the betterment only.

loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless

child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more specific

while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right learning

approach could be developed having inputs from every one, otherwise,

there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere

translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the

objective.

if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to

interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

regards,

Lalit.

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit ji,

> Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn!

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " litsol "

> <mlalit@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh,

> >

> > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with

> > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the

> > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in

> 5'th

> > house.

> >

> > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the

> first

> > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child

is

> an

> > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I

> > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may

> > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as

with

> > reference to 5'th house.

> >

> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

> > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as

> > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

obsecure

> > cases is required.

> >

> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

> > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a

> > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so

> > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the

life.

> >

> > This is what i observed.

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit.

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

> > >

> > > ==============================================

> > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > -----------------------------

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

individual

> > with

> > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous

> and

> > kind.

> > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > children and

> > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some

> > malefic

> > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

power

> > and

> > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy a

> > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities,

> he

> > will

> > > do many good deeds.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

> > moderate

> > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child.

> He

> > would

> > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He

> > would be

> > > dear to the king.

> > >

> > > - Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and

> > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th

is

> 3rd

> > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd

> > house

> > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

> increases

> > the

> > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd

> > house

> > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight

> > forward

> > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native

> will

> > lose

> > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

> lagna

> > lord

> > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

> children

> > and

> > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord

is

> > in 5th

> > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact,

> > since

> > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > amplifying

> > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

first

> > child

> > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well.

> > Actually

> > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara

> > provides

> > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house!

> We

> > are

> > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

solid

> > reason

> > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

influence

> on

> > 5th

> > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which

also

> > > provides similar results.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

> > moderate

> > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

would

> be

> > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > >

> > > - Parasara Hora

> > >

> > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

results

> as

> > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

predicted

> > only

> > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

> > available

> > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is

in

> 5th

> > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

> mention

> > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> related

> > issue

> > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has

to

> > say.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> a

> > good

> > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

> will

> > do

> > > many good deeds.

> > >

> > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > >

> > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> quoted

> > as

> > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

actual

> > > experience observed.

> > >

> > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children'

> > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says

> > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion

we

> > could

> > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his

first

> > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first

> child

> > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

malefic

> > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > amendment is

> > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost

> the

> > same

> > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > righteous

> > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

enjoy

> a

> > good

> > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will

do

> > many

> > > good deeds.

> > >

> > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > >

> > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

angry -

>

> > why?

> > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > significator

> > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to

> sun

> > in

> > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly

> the

> > lose

> > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> doubtful.

> > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > combination

> > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > >

> > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to

Sun

> in

> > that

> > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > >

> > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not

> > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

> rule.

> > The

> > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara

> such

> > as -

> > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also

> > make the

> > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as

> > well.

> > >

> > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > without a

> > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-

> depth

> > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

> > possible

> > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether

the

> > same

> > > can cause the loss of child -

> > >

> > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > signifying

> > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

> child

> > for

> > > sure.

> > >

> > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > debilitation

> > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

> house

> > as

> > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate

> loss

> > of

> > > child for sure.

> > >

> > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

lord

> of

> > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > Possibly the

> > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > >

> > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

> sign

> > for

> > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > >

> > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> Sagittarius

> > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

> > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > >

> > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn

> owns

> > the

> > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

> results

> > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury

and

> > Saturn

> > > are imbecile planets.

> > >

> > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus

is

> > also

> > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

> placed

> > in

> > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > >

> > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of

the

> 12

> > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child,

> even

> > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

Pisces

> > Lagna.

> > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement

> > without

> > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the

deep

> > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is

not

> > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief

> > statement

> > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of

> first

> > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

Parasara

> > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

> based

> > on

> > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the

> > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord

> in

> > other

> > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to

> > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So

his

> > opinion

> > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as

5th

> > house

> > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

Meenaraja

> > will

> > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from

> all

> > the

> > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see

> that,

> > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of

> first

> > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is

> > right, but

> > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with

the

> > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper

in

> > the

> > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

situations

> as

> > well

> > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

understanding

> > about

> > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > derivation. His

> > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more

far

> > and

> > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > practical. It

> > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a

> > sage,

> > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > >

> > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not

> > allow me

> > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the

> > methods

> > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House

> Base

> > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would

> > suggest

> > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

cleaner

> and

> > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

master

> > House

> > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and

> > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > understood,

> > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

technique.

> > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence,

> > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> recited

> > etc.

> > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > importance to

> > > the derivations related to the same.

> > >

> > > Extract from:

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > La\

> > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > ==============================================

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Lalit ji,

Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to all

astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what

those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters.

Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as

Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is not

that simple.

What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible

conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what

extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point to.

Try to understand things in the context they are.

When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present it

that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or

somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think it

could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in some

horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well -

that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some known

horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for verification,

and other feature or details of that horoscope should be neglected.

We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can

mean many things -

* It could be abortion

* It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case of

Indira Gandhi)

* It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

possibilities as well.

Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead what

we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and concepts

used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to master

that technique' - know this well.

==>

> there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to mere

> translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the

> objective.

<==

Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of objective

and strategy, of this group. Please check -

* The previous mails on the same thread

* The files in the files folder dealing with similar things (i.e.

Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of astrology)

* Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the

forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

systematically.

Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was there

in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading goes to

every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but alas!

the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the

posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them

before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out

one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand and

learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches with

mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be valuable -

coming out from research, experience and effort.

Hope the confusion is clarified.

Love and Hugs,

Sreenadh

, " litsol "

<mlalit wrote:

>

> Dear Srinadh,

>

> Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u

> tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i saw,

u

> urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but

just

> stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up.

>

> I suggested something for the betterment only.

>

> loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless

> child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more

specific

> while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

>

> be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right learning

> approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

otherwise,

> there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere

> translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the

> objective.

>

> if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to

> interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

>

> regards,

> Lalit.

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit ji,

> > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn!

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " litsol "

> > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Srinadh,

> > >

> > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house

with

> > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the

> > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in

> > 5'th

> > > house.

> > >

> > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the

> > first

> > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child

> is

> > an

> > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I

> > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house

may

> > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as

> with

> > > reference to 5'th house.

> > >

> > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach

is

> > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far

as

> > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> obsecure

> > > cases is required.

> > >

> > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of

gains,

> > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes

a

> > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting

so

> > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the

> life.

> > >

> > > This is what i observed.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Lalit.

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below.

> > > >

> > > > ==============================================

> > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > -----------------------------

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> individual

> > > with

> > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

righteous

> > and

> > > kind.

> > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > > children and

> > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some

> > > malefic

> > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

> power

> > > and

> > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> > enjoy a

> > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

qualities,

> > he

> > > will

> > > > do many good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

> > > moderate

> > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

child.

> > He

> > > would

> > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation.

He

> > > would be

> > > > dear to the king.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry

and

> > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th

> is

> > 3rd

> > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house.

3rd

> > > house

> > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

> > increases

> > > the

> > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

2nd

> > > house

> > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

straight

> > > forward

> > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native

> > will

> > > lose

> > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that

> > lagna

> > > lord

> > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

> > children

> > > and

> > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna

lord

> is

> > > in 5th

> > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

impact,

> > > since

> > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > > amplifying

> > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

> first

> > > child

> > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as

well.

> > > Actually

> > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara

> > > provides

> > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

house!

> > We

> > > are

> > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

> solid

> > > reason

> > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

> influence

> > on

> > > 5th

> > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which

> also

> > > > provides similar results.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have

> > > moderate

> > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

> would

> > be

> > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

> results

> > as

> > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

> predicted

> > > only

> > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other

> > > available

> > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is

> in

> > 5th

> > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not

> > mention

> > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> > related

> > > issue

> > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja

has

> to

> > > say.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > > righteous

> > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy

> > a

> > > good

> > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

> > will

> > > do

> > > > many good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > >

> > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is

> > quoted

> > > as

> > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

> actual

> > > > experience observed.

> > > >

> > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

children'

> > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only

says

> > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say

> > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion

> we

> > > could

> > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his

> first

> > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first

> > child

> > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

> malefic

> > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > > amendment is

> > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

almost

> > the

> > > same

> > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children,

> > > righteous

> > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> enjoy

> > a

> > > good

> > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

will

> do

> > > many

> > > > good deeds.

> > > >

> > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > >

> > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

> angry -

> >

> > > why?

> > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > > significator

> > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar

to

> > sun

> > > in

> > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

possibly

> > the

> > > lose

> > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> > doubtful.

> > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > > combination

> > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > >

> > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to

> Sun

> > in

> > > that

> > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If

not

> > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above

> > rule.

> > > The

> > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to

> > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

Parasara

> > such

> > > as -

> > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will

also

> > > make the

> > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic

as

> > > well.

> > > >

> > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something

> > > without a

> > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base

> > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-

> > depth

> > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the

> > > possible

> > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether

> the

> > > same

> > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > > signifying

> > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of

> > child

> > > for

> > > > sure.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > > debilitation

> > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th

> > house

> > > as

> > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

indicate

> > loss

> > > of

> > > > child for sure.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the

> lord

> > of

> > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > > Possibly the

> > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > >

> > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation

> > sign

> > > for

> > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> > Sagittarius

> > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the

> > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > >

> > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn

> > owns

> > > the

> > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad

> > results

> > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury

> and

> > > Saturn

> > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > >

> > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus

> is

> > > also

> > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic

> > placed

> > > in

> > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > >

> > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of

> the

> > 12

> > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

child,

> > even

> > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

> Pisces

> > > Lagna.

> > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

statement

> > > without

> > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the

> deep

> > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th

is

> not

> > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief

> > > statement

> > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss

of

> > first

> > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

> Parasara

> > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result

> > based

> > > on

> > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime

> > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of

the

> > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

lord

> > in

> > > other

> > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due

to

> > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So

> his

> > > opinion

> > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in

> > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as

> 5th

> > > house

> > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

> Meenaraja

> > > will

> > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

from

> > all

> > > the

> > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will

see

> > that,

> > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss

of

> > first

> > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is

> > > right, but

> > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned

with

> the

> > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

deeper

> in

> > > the

> > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> situations

> > as

> > > well

> > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> understanding

> > > about

> > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > > derivation. His

> > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more

> far

> > > and

> > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > > practical. It

> > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed

a

> > > sage,

> > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > >

> > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does

not

> > > allow me

> > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed

the

> > > methods

> > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with

House

> > Base

> > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would

> > > suggest

> > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

> cleaner

> > and

> > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

> master

> > > House

> > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and

> > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > > understood,

> > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

> technique.

> > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

intelligence,

> > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > recited

> > > etc.

> > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > Extract from:

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > La\

> > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > ==============================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Srinadh,

Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something and

someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, now

onwards will never try to correct you.

However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is only

house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find

answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my understanding

but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching is

affecting ur's learning only.

regards,

Lalit

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit ji,

> Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to all

> astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what

> those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters.

> Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as

> Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is

not

> that simple.

> What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible

> conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what

> extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point

to.

> Try to understand things in the context they are.

> When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present

it

> that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or

> somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think

it

> could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in

some

> horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well -

> that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some

known

> horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

verification,

> and other feature or details of that horoscope should be neglected.

> We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can

> mean many things -

> * It could be abortion

> * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case of

> Indira Gandhi)

> * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> possibilities as well.

> Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead

what

> we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

concepts

> used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to

master

> that technique' - know this well.

> ==>

> > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to mere

> > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the

> > objective.

> <==

> Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

objective

> and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> * The previous mails on the same thread

> * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things (i.e.

> Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of astrology)

> * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the

> forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

> systematically.

> Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was

there

> in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading goes

to

> every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but

alas!

> the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the

> posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

> shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them

> before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out

> one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand and

> learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches

with

> mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be valuable -

> coming out from research, experience and effort.

> Hope the confusion is clarified.

> Love and Hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " litsol "

> <mlalit@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh,

> >

> > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u

> > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i

saw,

> u

> > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but

> just

> > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up.

> >

> > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> >

> > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless

> > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more

> specific

> > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> >

> > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

learning

> > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> otherwise,

> > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere

> > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the

> > objective.

> >

> > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to

> > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit.

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply

learn!

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " litsol "

> > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > >

> > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house

> with

> > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the

> > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement

in

> > > 5'th

> > > > house.

> > > >

> > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of

the

> > > first

> > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of

child

> > is

> > > an

> > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance.

I

> > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house

> may

> > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well

as

> > with

> > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > >

> > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

approach

> is

> > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

far

> as

> > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> > obsecure

> > > > cases is required.

> > > >

> > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of

> gains,

> > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

makes

> a

> > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

promting

> so

> > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of

the

> > life.

> > > >

> > > > This is what i observed.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Lalit.

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed

below.

> > > > >

> > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> > individual

> > > > with

> > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> righteous

> > > and

> > > > kind.

> > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from

> > > > children and

> > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is

some

> > > > malefic

> > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with

> > power

> > > > and

> > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and

will

> > > enjoy a

> > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> qualities,

> > > he

> > > > will

> > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

have

> > > > moderate

> > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

> child.

> > > He

> > > > would

> > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

reputation.

> He

> > > > would be

> > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry

> and

> > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be -

5th

> > is

> > > 3rd

> > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house.

> 3rd

> > > > house

> > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

> > > increases

> > > > the

> > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is

> 2nd

> > > > house

> > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> straight

> > > > forward

> > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the

native

> > > will

> > > > lose

> > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be

that

> > > lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

> > > children

> > > > and

> > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna

> lord

> > is

> > > > in 5th

> > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

> impact,

> > > > since

> > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord

> > > > amplifying

> > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the

> > first

> > > > child

> > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as

> well.

> > > > Actually

> > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

Parasara

> > > > provides

> > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

> house!

> > > We

> > > > are

> > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any

> > solid

> > > > reason

> > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

> > influence

> > > on

> > > > 5th

> > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available,

which

> > also

> > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will

have

> > > > moderate

> > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He

> > would

> > > be

> > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

> > results

> > > as

> > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

> > predicted

> > > > only

> > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the

other

> > > > available

> > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord

is

> > in

> > > 5th

> > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will

not

> > > mention

> > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many

> > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style

> > > related

> > > > issue

> > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja

> has

> > to

> > > > say.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children,

> > > > righteous

> > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> > enjoy

> > > a

> > > > good

> > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities,

he

> > > will

> > > > do

> > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > >

> > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela

is

> > > quoted

> > > > as

> > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on

> > actual

> > > > > experience observed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

> children'

> > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only

> says

> > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not

say

> > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the

> > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

conclusion

> > we

> > > > could

> > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss

his

> > first

> > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of

first

> > > child

> > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of

> > malefic

> > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An

> > > > amendment is

> > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

> almost

> > > the

> > > > same

> > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

children,

> > > > righteous

> > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will

> > enjoy

> > > a

> > > > good

> > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

> will

> > do

> > > > many

> > > > > good deeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native

> > angry -

> > >

> > > > why?

> > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural

> > > > significator

> > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as

similar

> to

> > > sun

> > > > in

> > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> possibly

> > > the

> > > > lose

> > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am

> > > doubtful.

> > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar

> > > > combination

> > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar

to

> > Sun

> > > in

> > > > that

> > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule.

If

> not

> > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the

above

> > > rule.

> > > > The

> > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough

to

> > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> Parasara

> > > such

> > > > as -

> > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will

> also

> > > > make the

> > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other

logic

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > >

> > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

something

> > > > without a

> > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House

base

> > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other

in-

> > > depth

> > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all

the

> > > > possible

> > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

whether

> > the

> > > > same

> > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign

> > > > signifying

> > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss

of

> > > child

> > > > for

> > > > > sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > > > debilitation

> > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of

6th

> > > house

> > > > as

> > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> indicate

> > > loss

> > > > of

> > > > > child for sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus

the

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well.

> > > > Possibly the

> > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

debilitation

> > > sign

> > > > for

> > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> > > Sagittarius

> > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly

the

> > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn

Saturn

> > > owns

> > > > the

> > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate

bad

> > > results

> > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

Mercury

> > and

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord

Venus

> > is

> > > > also

> > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

malefic

> > > placed

> > > > in

> > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most

of

> > the

> > > 12

> > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

> child,

> > > even

> > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

> > Pisces

> > > > Lagna.

> > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> statement

> > > > without

> > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from

the

> > deep

> > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th

> is

> > not

> > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the

brief

> > > > statement

> > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss

> of

> > > first

> > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

> > Parasara

> > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a

result

> > > based

> > > > on

> > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this

prime

> > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But

> > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of

> the

> > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna

> lord

> > > in

> > > > other

> > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th,

due

> to

> > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself.

So

> > his

> > > > opinion

> > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs

in

> > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far

as

> > 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

> > Meenaraja

> > > > will

> > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th

> from

> > > all

> > > > the

> > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will

> see

> > > that,

> > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss

> of

> > > first

> > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which

> > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja

is

> > > > right, but

> > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned

> with

> > the

> > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

> deeper

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> > situations

> > > as

> > > > well

> > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > understanding

> > > > about

> > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > > > derivation. His

> > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is

more

> > far

> > > > and

> > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > > > practical. It

> > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is

termed

> a

> > > > sage,

> > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > >

> > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does

> not

> > > > allow me

> > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed

> the

> > > > methods

> > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with

> House

> > > Base

> > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I

would

> > > > suggest

> > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

> > cleaner

> > > and

> > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to

> > master

> > > > House

> > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities

and

> > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and

> > > > understood,

> > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

> > technique.

> > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> intelligence,

> > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns

> > > recited

> > > > etc.

> > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > > > importance to

> > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > Extract from:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > > La\

> > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Lalit ji,

Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present

your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar

discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it;

Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I will

love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic.

Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting

systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of the

books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that I

am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody

should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the

subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-Learner,

Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in this

group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by

sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to anyone.

Please understand this.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " litsol "

<mlalit wrote:

>

> Dear Srinadh,

>

> Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something and

> someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

> understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time,

now

> onwards will never try to correct you.

>

> However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is only

> house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find

> answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

understanding

> but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching

is

> affecting ur's learning only.

>

> regards,

> Lalit

, " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit ji,

> > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to

all

> > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what

> > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters.

> > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as

> > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is

> not

> > that simple.

> > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible

> > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what

> > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point

> to.

> > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present

> it

> > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or

> > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think

> it

> > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in

> some

> > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well -

> > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some

> known

> > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> verification,

> > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

neglected.

> > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can

> > mean many things -

> > * It could be abortion

> > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case

of

> > Indira Gandhi)

> > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > possibilities as well.

> > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead

> what

> > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

> concepts

> > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to

> master

> > that technique' - know this well.

> > ==>

> > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to

mere

> > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not

the

> > > objective.

> > <==

> > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> objective

> > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things

(i.e.

> > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

astrology)

> > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the

> > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

> > systematically.

> > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was

> there

> > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading

goes

> to

> > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but

> alas!

> > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the

> > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

> > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them

> > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out

> > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand

and

> > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches

> with

> > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

valuable -

>

> > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > Love and Hugs,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " litsol "

> > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Srinadh,

> > >

> > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what

u

> > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i

> saw,

> > u

> > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot,

but

> > just

> > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover

up.

> > >

> > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > >

> > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

hopeless

> > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more

> > specific

> > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > >

> > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

> learning

> > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> > otherwise,

> > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to

mere

> > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not

the

> > > objective.

> > >

> > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business

to

> > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Lalit.

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply

> learn!

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " litsol "

> > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > >

> > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house

> > with

> > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand

the

> > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

placement

> in

> > > > 5'th

> > > > > house.

> > > > >

> > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of

> the

> > > > first

> > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of

> child

> > > is

> > > > an

> > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

malificance.

> I

> > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th

house

> > may

> > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well

> as

> > > with

> > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > >

> > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

> approach

> > is

> > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> far

> > as

> > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> > > obsecure

> > > > > cases is required.

> > > > >

> > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of

> > gains,

> > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> makes

> > a

> > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> promting

> > so

> > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of

> the

> > > life.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed

> below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> > > individual

> > > > > with

> > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> > righteous

> > > > and

> > > > > kind.

> > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being

from

> > > > > children and

> > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is

> some

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people

with

> > > power

> > > > > and

> > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and

> will

> > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > qualities,

> > > > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will

> have

> > > > > moderate

> > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first

> > child.

> > > > He

> > > > > would

> > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> reputation.

> > He

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an

angry

> > and

> > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be -

> 5th

> > > is

> > > > 3rd

> > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd

house.

> > 3rd

> > > > > house

> > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th

> > > > increases

> > > > > the

> > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th

is

> > 2nd

> > > > > house

> > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> > straight

> > > > > forward

> > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the

> native

> > > > will

> > > > > lose

> > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be

> that

> > > > lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing

> > > > children

> > > > > and

> > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna

> > lord

> > > is

> > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

> > impact,

> > > > > since

> > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna

lord

> > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify

the

> > > first

> > > > > child

> > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as

> > well.

> > > > > Actually

> > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

> Parasara

> > > > > provides

> > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th

> > house!

> > > > We

> > > > > are

> > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine

any

> > > solid

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

> > > influence

> > > > on

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available,

> which

> > > also

> > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will

> have

> > > > > moderate

> > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child.

He

> > > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's

place.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same

> > > results

> > > > as

> > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

> > > predicted

> > > > > only

> > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the

> other

> > > > > available

> > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna

lord

> is

> > > in

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will

> not

> > > > mention

> > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in

many

> > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing

style

> > > > related

> > > > > issue

> > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

Meenaraja

> > has

> > > to

> > > > > say.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> children,

> > > > > righteous

> > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and

will

> > > enjoy

> > > > a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

qualities,

> he

> > > > will

> > > > > do

> > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela

> is

> > > > quoted

> > > > > as

> > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based

on

> > > actual

> > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

> > children'

> > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara

only

> > says

> > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not

> say

> > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine

the

> > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> conclusion

> > > we

> > > > > could

> > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss

> his

> > > first

> > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of

> first

> > > > child

> > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence

of

> > > malefic

> > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference.

(An

> > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

> > almost

> > > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> children,

> > > > > righteous

> > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and

will

> > > enjoy

> > > > a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he

> > will

> > > do

> > > > > many

> > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the

native

> > > angry -

> > > >

> > > > > why?

> > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the

natural

> > > > > significator

> > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as

> similar

> > to

> > > > sun

> > > > > in

> > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> > possibly

> > > > the

> > > > > lose

> > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I

am

> > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with

similar

> > > > > combination

> > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar

> to

> > > Sun

> > > > in

> > > > > that

> > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule.

> If

> > not

> > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the

> above

> > > > rule.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable

enough

> to

> > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> > Parasara

> > > > such

> > > > > as -

> > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it

will

> > also

> > > > > make the

> > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other

> logic

> > as

> > > > > well.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

> something

> > > > > without a

> > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g.

> > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House

> base

> > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some

other

> in-

> > > > depth

> > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all

> the

> > > > > possible

> > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

> whether

> > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a

sign

> > > > > signifying

> > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss

> of

> > > > child

> > > > > for

> > > > > > sure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the

> > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of

> 6th

> > > > house

> > > > > as

> > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> > indicate

> > > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus

> the

> > > lord

> > > > of

> > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as

well.

> > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> debilitation

> > > > sign

> > > > > for

> > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

certainly

> the

> > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn

> Saturn

> > > > owns

> > > > > the

> > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate

> bad

> > > > results

> > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

> Mercury

> > > and

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord

> Venus

> > > is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

> malefic

> > > > placed

> > > > > in

> > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for

most

> of

> > > the

> > > > 12

> > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of

> > child,

> > > > even

> > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and

> > > Pisces

> > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> > statement

> > > > > without

> > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from

> the

> > > deep

> > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in

5th

> > is

> > > not

> > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the

> brief

> > > > > statement

> > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -

loss

> > of

> > > > first

> > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and

> > > Parasara

> > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a

> result

> > > > based

> > > > > on

> > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this

> prime

> > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right.

But

> > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding

of

> > the

> > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding

lagna

> > lord

> > > > in

> > > > > other

> > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th,

> due

> > to

> > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself.

> So

> > > his

> > > > > opinion

> > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the

Signs

> in

> > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as

far

> as

> > > 5th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

> > > Meenaraja

> > > > > will

> > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of

5th

> > from

> > > > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you

will

> > see

> > > > that,

> > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as

loss

> > of

> > > > first

> > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding

which

> > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

Meenaraja

> is

> > > > > right, but

> > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned

> > with

> > > the

> > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

> > deeper

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> > > situations

> > > > as

> > > > > well

> > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > > understanding

> > > > > about

> > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result

> > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is

> more

> > > far

> > > > > and

> > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more

> > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is

> termed

> > a

> > > > > sage,

> > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not

does

> > not

> > > > > allow me

> > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he

mixed

> > the

> > > > > methods

> > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with

> > House

> > > > Base

> > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I

> would

> > > > > suggest

> > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the

> > > cleaner

> > > > and

> > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying

to

> > > master

> > > > > House

> > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

possibilities

> and

> > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with

and

> > > > > understood,

> > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

> > > technique.

> > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> > intelligence,

> > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret

hymns

> > > > recited

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special

> > > > > importance to

> > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > > > La\

> > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Lalit ji,

The questions in articles are -

* Guidance to think.

* They are part of the process of thinking

* They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and

give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked malefic

influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the

remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know that

it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire

with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself -

systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method

is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind

think about it - and you will see what I mean.

What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you

will what I mean.

==>

> if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and

> then try to find answers,

<==

I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house

specific' that too is right.

==>

> u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> individual " and tried to understand the reason

<==

Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that

was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic

behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and

not related to anything else.

Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you

checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't

work?

Now let us come to your comment on the same -

Comment -1

==>

> If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

> right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> obsecure cases is required.

<==

What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes?

The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go -

an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go

ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the

basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base

result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " !

Comment -2

==>

> same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

> this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective

> of the life. This is what i observed.

<==

Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last

statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started

learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart

learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it).

Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - " This

is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more

pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your

time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training

period and clear the testing phase! :=)

Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very

much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential.

But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of

becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for

that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional

astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I

don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the

fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be.

We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of

knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not

much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner,

and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -

IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never

can be.

Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder...

Love and Hugs,

Sreenadh

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit ji,

> Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present

> your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar

> discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it;

> Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I

will

> love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic.

> Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting

> systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of

the

> books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that

I

> am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody

> should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the

> subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-

Learner,

> Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in

this

> group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by

> sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to

anyone.

> Please understand this.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " litsol "

> <mlalit@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh,

> >

> > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something

and

> > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

> > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time,

> now

> > onwards will never try to correct you.

> >

> > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should

lagna

> > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is

only

> > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find

> > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

> understanding

> > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching

> is

> > affecting ur's learning only.

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to

> all

> > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing

what

> > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other

parameters.

> > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as

> > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it

is

> > not

> > > that simple.

> > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible

> > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to

what

> > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can

point

> > to.

> > > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something -

present

> > it

> > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or

> > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you

think

> > it

> > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such

in

> > some

> > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as

well -

> > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some

> > known

> > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> > verification,

> > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

> neglected.

> > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss

can

> > > mean many things -

> > > * It could be abortion

> > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the

case

> of

> > > Indira Gandhi)

> > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > > possibilities as well.

> > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details -

instead

> > what

> > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

> > concepts

> > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to

> > master

> > > that technique' - know this well.

> > > ==>

> > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to

> mere

> > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not

> the

> > > > objective.

> > > <==

> > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> > objective

> > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things

> (i.e.

> > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

> astrology)

> > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in

the

> > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

> > > systematically.

> > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was

> > there

> > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading

> goes

> > to

> > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but

> > alas!

> > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the

> > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

> > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study

them

> > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought

out

> > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand

> and

> > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches

> > with

> > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

> valuable -

> >

> > > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > > Love and Hugs,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " litsol "

> > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > >

> > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in

what

> u

> > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i

> > saw,

> > > u

> > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot,

> but

> > > just

> > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover

> up.

> > > >

> > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > > >

> > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> hopeless

> > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more

> > > specific

> > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > > >

> > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

> > learning

> > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> > > otherwise,

> > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to

> mere

> > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not

> the

> > > > objective.

> > > >

> > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business

> to

> > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Lalit.

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply

> > learn!

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th

house

> > > with

> > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand

> the

> > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

> placement

> > in

> > > > > 5'th

> > > > > > house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss

of

> > the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of

> > child

> > > > is

> > > > > an

> > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

> malificance.

> > I

> > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th

> house

> > > may

> > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as

well

> > as

> > > > with

> > > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

> > approach

> > > is

> > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but

as

> > far

> > > as

> > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> > > > obsecure

> > > > > > cases is required.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house

of

> > > gains,

> > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> > makes

> > > a

> > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > promting

> > > so

> > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective

of

> > the

> > > > life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed

> > below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> > > > individual

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> > > righteous

> > > > > and

> > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being

> from

> > > > > > children and

> > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there

is

> > some

> > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people

> with

> > > > power

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and

> > will

> > > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > qualities,

> > > > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry;

will

> > have

> > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his

first

> > > child.

> > > > > He

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > reputation.

> > > He

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an

> angry

> > > and

> > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could

be -

> > 5th

> > > > is

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd

> house.

> > > 3rd

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in

5th

> > > > > increases

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that

5th

> is

> > > 2nd

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> > > straight

> > > > > > forward

> > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the

> > native

> > > > > will

> > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be

> > that

> > > > > lagna

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

providing

> > > > > children

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if

lagna

> > > lord

> > > > is

> > > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double

> > > impact,

> > > > > > since

> > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna

> lord

> > > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify

> the

> > > > first

> > > > > > child

> > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child

as

> > > well.

> > > > > > Actually

> > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

> > Parasara

> > > > > > provides

> > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in

5th

> > > house!

> > > > > We

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine

> any

> > > > solid

> > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic

> > > > influence

> > > > > on

> > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available,

> > which

> > > > also

> > > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud;

will

> > have

> > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child.

> He

> > > > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's

> place.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost

same

> > > > results

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be

> > > > predicted

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the

> > other

> > > > > > available

> > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna

> lord

> > is

> > > > in

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara

will

> > not

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in

> many

> > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing

> style

> > > > > related

> > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

> Meenaraja

> > > has

> > > > to

> > > > > > say.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > children,

> > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and

> will

> > > > enjoy

> > > > > a

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> qualities,

> > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word

Suseela

> > is

> > > > > quoted

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based

> on

> > > > actual

> > > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides

> > > children'

> > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara

> only

> > > says

> > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does

not

> > say

> > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine

> the

> > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> > conclusion

> > > > we

> > > > > > could

> > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may

loss

> > his

> > > > first

> > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of

> > first

> > > > > child

> > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence

> of

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference.

> (An

> > > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is

> > > almost

> > > > > the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > children,

> > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and

> will

> > > > enjoy

> > > > > a

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities,

he

> > > will

> > > > do

> > > > > > many

> > > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the

> native

> > > > angry -

> > > > >

> > > > > > why?

> > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the

> natural

> > > > > > significator

> > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as

> > similar

> > > to

> > > > > sun

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> > > possibly

> > > > > the

> > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I

> am

> > > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with

> similar

> > > > > > combination

> > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated

similar

> > to

> > > > Sun

> > > > > in

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above

rule.

> > If

> > > not

> > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the

> > above

> > > > > rule.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable

> enough

> > to

> > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> > > Parasara

> > > > > such

> > > > > > as -

> > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it

> will

> > > also

> > > > > > make the

> > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other

> > logic

> > > as

> > > > > > well.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

> > something

> > > > > > without a

> > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result

(e.g.

> > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with

House

> > base

> > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some

> other

> > in-

> > > > > depth

> > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze

all

> > the

> > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

> > whether

> > > > the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a

> sign

> > > > > > signifying

> > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate

loss

> > of

> > > > > child

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > sure.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is

the

> > > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship

of

> > 6th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> > > indicate

> > > > > loss

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that

Venus

> > the

> > > > lord

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as

> well.

> > > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> > debilitation

> > > > > sign

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of

> > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

> certainly

> > the

> > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn

> > Saturn

> > > > > owns

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can

indicate

> > bad

> > > > > results

> > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

> > Mercury

> > > > and

> > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord

> > Venus

> > > > is

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

> > malefic

> > > > > placed

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for

> most

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > 12

> > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss

of

> > > child,

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius

and

> > > > Pisces

> > > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> > > statement

> > > > > > without

> > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung

from

> > the

> > > > deep

> > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in

> 5th

> > > is

> > > > not

> > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the

> > brief

> > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -

> loss

> > > of

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong

and

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a

> > result

> > > > > based

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this

> > prime

> > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right.

> But

> > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep

understanding

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding

> lagna

> > > lord

> > > > > in

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in

5th,

> > due

> > > to

> > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs

itself.

> > So

> > > > his

> > > > > > opinion

> > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the

> Signs

> > in

> > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as

> far

> > as

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by

> > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of

> 5th

> > > from

> > > > > all

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you

> will

> > > see

> > > > > that,

> > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as

> loss

> > > of

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding

> which

> > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

> Meenaraja

> > is

> > > > > > right, but

> > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is

concerned

> > > with

> > > > the

> > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes

> > > deeper

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> > > > situations

> > > > > as

> > > > > > well

> > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > > > understanding

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general

result

> > > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and

is

> > more

> > > > far

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is

more

> > > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is

> > termed

> > > a

> > > > > > sage,

> > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not

> does

> > > not

> > > > > > allow me

> > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he

> mixed

> > > the

> > > > > > methods

> > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing

with

> > > House

> > > > > Base

> > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I

> > would

> > > > > > suggest

> > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to

the

> > > > cleaner

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying

> to

> > > > master

> > > > > > House

> > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

> possibilities

> > and

> > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with

> and

> > > > > > understood,

> > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation

> > > > technique.

> > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> > > intelligence,

> > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret

> hymns

> > > > > recited

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates

special

> > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > > > > La\

> > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Dear Srinadh,

Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer,

director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.

I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective

learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective

but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur

shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.

u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur

convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and

define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.

when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about

subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never

be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.

I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.

regards,

Lalit.

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit ji,

> The questions in articles are -

> * Guidance to think.

> * They are part of the process of thinking

> * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come

and

> give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked

malefic

> influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the

> remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know

that

> it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire

> with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself -

> systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold

method

> is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful

mind

> think about it - and you will see what I mean.

> What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles -

you

> will what I mean.

> ==>

> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and

> > then try to find answers,

> <==

> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house

> specific' that too is right.

> ==>

> > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > individual " and tried to understand the reason

> <==

> Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because

that

> was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic

> behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation,

and

> not related to anything else.

> Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did

you

> checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it

doesn't

> work?

> Now let us come to your comment on the same -

> Comment -1

> ==>

> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

> > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> > obsecure cases is required.

> <==

> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example

horoscopes?

> The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to

go -

> an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go

> ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even

the

> basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base

> result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " !

> Comment -2

> ==>

> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

> > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

objective

> > of the life. This is what i observed.

> <==

> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last

> statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started

> learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a

smart

> learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about

it).

> Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -

" This

> is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more

> pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your

> time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training

> period and clear the testing phase! :=)

> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you

very

> much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential.

> But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake

of

> becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough

for

> that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional

> astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I

> don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the

> fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be.

> We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of

> knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not

> much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a

learner,

> and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -

> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and

never

> can be.

> Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder...

> Love and Hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit ji,

> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present

> > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In

similar

> > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does

it;

> > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I

> will

> > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from

Logic.

> > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting

> > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of

> the

> > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel

that

> I

> > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody

> > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the

> > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-

> Learner,

> > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in

> this

> > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by

> > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to

> anyone.

> > Please understand this.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " litsol "

> > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Srinadh,

> > >

> > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something

> and

> > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

> > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this

time,

> > now

> > > onwards will never try to correct you.

> > >

> > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should

> lagna

> > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is

> only

> > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find

> > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

> > understanding

> > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in

teaching

> > is

> > > affecting ur's learning only.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Lalit

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact

to

> > all

> > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing

> what

> > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other

> parameters.

> > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such

as

> > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it

> is

> > > not

> > > > that simple.

> > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some

inflexible

> > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to

> what

> > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can

> point

> > > to.

> > > > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something -

> present

> > > it

> > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong,

or

> > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you

> think

> > > it

> > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such

> in

> > > some

> > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as

> well -

> > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in

some

> > > known

> > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> > > verification,

> > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

> > neglected.

> > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss

> can

> > > > mean many things -

> > > > * It could be abortion

> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the

> case

> > of

> > > > Indira Gandhi)

> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > > > possibilities as well.

> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details -

> instead

> > > what

> > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

> > > concepts

> > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying

to

> > > master

> > > > that technique' - know this well.

> > > > ==>

> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined

to

> > mere

> > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

not

> > the

> > > > > objective.

> > > > <==

> > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> > > objective

> > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things

> > (i.e.

> > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

> > astrology)

> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in

> the

> > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

> > > > systematically.

> > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses

was

> > > there

> > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading

> > goes

> > > to

> > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same;

but

> > > alas!

> > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on

the

> > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

> > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study

> them

> > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought

> out

> > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to

understand

> > and

> > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view

matches

> > > with

> > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

> > valuable -

> > >

> > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " litsol "

> > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in

> what

> > u

> > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact,

i

> > > saw,

> > > > u

> > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a

lot,

> > but

> > > > just

> > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to

cover

> > up.

> > > > >

> > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > > > >

> > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > hopeless

> > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be

more

> > > > specific

> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > > > >

> > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

> > > learning

> > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> > > > otherwise,

> > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to

> > mere

> > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

not

> > the

> > > > > objective.

> > > > >

> > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no

business

> > to

> > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just

simply

> > > learn!

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th

> house

> > > > with

> > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to

understand

> > the

> > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

> > placement

> > > in

> > > > > > 5'th

> > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to

loss

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death

of

> > > child

> > > > > is

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

> > malificance.

> > > I

> > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th

> > house

> > > > may

> > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as

> well

> > > as

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

> > > approach

> > > > is

> > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but

> as

> > > far

> > > > as

> > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect

the

> > > > > obsecure

> > > > > > > cases is required.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house

> of

> > > > gains,

> > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th

house

> > > makes

> > > > a

> > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > promting

> > > > so

> > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective

> of

> > > the

> > > > > life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is

discussed

> > > below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> > > > righteous

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-

being

> > from

> > > > > > > children and

> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there

> is

> > > some

> > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the

people

> > with

> > > > > power

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership

and

> > > will

> > > > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > > qualities,

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry;

> will

> > > have

> > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his

> first

> > > > child.

> > > > > > He

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > > reputation.

> > > > He

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an

> > angry

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could

> be -

> > > 5th

> > > > > is

> > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd

> > house.

> > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in

> 5th

> > > > > > increases

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that

> 5th

> > is

> > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> > > > straight

> > > > > > > forward

> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that

the

> > > native

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would

be

> > > that

> > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

> providing

> > > > > > children

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if

> lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have

double

> > > > impact,

> > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the

lagna

> > lord

> > > > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could

signify

> > the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > > Actually

> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

> > > Parasara

> > > > > > > provides

> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in

> 5th

> > > > house!

> > > > > > We

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to

imagine

> > any

> > > > > solid

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any

malefic

> > > > > influence

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is

available,

> > > which

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud;

> will

> > > have

> > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first

child.

> > He

> > > > > would

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's

> > place.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost

> same

> > > > > results

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should

be

> > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since

the

> > > other

> > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna

> > lord

> > > is

> > > > > in

> > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara

> will

> > > not

> > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house'

in

> > many

> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing

> > style

> > > > > > related

> > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

> > Meenaraja

> > > > has

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > children,

> > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

and

> > will

> > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > qualities,

> > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word

> Suseela

> > > is

> > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word

based

> > on

> > > > > actual

> > > > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th

`provides

> > > > children'

> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara

> > only

> > > > says

> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does

> not

> > > say

> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we

combine

> > the

> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> > > conclusion

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may

> loss

> > > his

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss

of

> > > first

> > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the

absence

> > of

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial

inference.

> > (An

> > > > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam

is

> > > > almost

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > children,

> > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

and

> > will

> > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good

qualities,

> he

> > > > will

> > > > > do

> > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the

> > native

> > > > > angry -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > why?

> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the

> > natural

> > > > > > > significator

> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as

> > > similar

> > > > to

> > > > > > sun

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> > > > possibly

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach?

I

> > am

> > > > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with

> > similar

> > > > > > > combination

> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated

> similar

> > > to

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above

> rule.

> > > If

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore

the

> > > above

> > > > > > rule.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable

> > enough

> > > to

> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > as -

> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it

> > will

> > > > also

> > > > > > > make the

> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some

other

> > > logic

> > > > as

> > > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

> > > something

> > > > > > > without a

> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result

> (e.g.

> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with

> House

> > > base

> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some

> > other

> > > in-

> > > > > > depth

> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze

> all

> > > the

> > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

> > > whether

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a

> > sign

> > > > > > > signifying

> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate

> loss

> > > of

> > > > > > child

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > sure.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is

> the

> > > > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship

> of

> > > 6th

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> > > > indicate

> > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that

> Venus

> > > the

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as

> > well.

> > > > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> > > debilitation

> > > > > > sign

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of

child.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord

of

> > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

> > certainly

> > > the

> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of

Capricorn

> > > Saturn

> > > > > > owns

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can

> indicate

> > > bad

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

> > > Mercury

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna

lord

> > > Venus

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

> > > malefic

> > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for

> > most

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > 12

> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss

> of

> > > > child,

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius

> and

> > > > > Pisces

> > > > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> > > > statement

> > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung

> from

> > > the

> > > > > deep

> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord

in

> > 5th

> > > > is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into

the

> > > brief

> > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -

> > loss

> > > > of

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong

> and

> > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a

> > > result

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For

this

> > > prime

> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely

right.

> > But

> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep

> understanding

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding

> > lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in

> 5th,

> > > due

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs

> itself.

> > > So

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > opinion

> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the

> > Signs

> > > in

> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death

as

> > far

> > > as

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed

by

> > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature

of

> > 5th

> > > > from

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you

> > will

> > > > see

> > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such

as

> > loss

> > > > of

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper

understanding

> > which

> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

> > Meenaraja

> > > is

> > > > > > > right, but

> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is

> concerned

> > > > with

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara

goes

> > > > deeper

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> > > > > situations

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general

> result

> > > > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and

> is

> > > more

> > > > > far

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is

> more

> > > > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara

is

> > > termed

> > > > a

> > > > > > > sage,

> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not

> > does

> > > > not

> > > > > > > allow me

> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he

> > mixed

> > > > the

> > > > > > > methods

> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing

> with

> > > > House

> > > > > > Base

> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner.

I

> > > would

> > > > > > > suggest

> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to

> the

> > > > > cleaner

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while

trying

> > to

> > > > > master

> > > > > > > House

> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

> > possibilities

> > > and

> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt

with

> > and

> > > > > > > understood,

> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

derivation

> > > > > technique.

> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> > > > intelligence,

> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret

> > hymns

> > > > > > recited

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates

> special

> > > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > > > > > La\

> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

Mmm....I know it takes time...

Take care....

Love,

Sreenadh

, " litsol " <mlalit

wrote:

>

> Dear Srinadh,

>

> Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer,

> director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.

>

> I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective

> learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective

> but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur

> shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.

>

> u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur

> convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and

> define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.

>

> when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about

> subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never

> be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.

>

> I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.

>

> regards,

> Lalit.

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit ji,

> > The questions in articles are -

> > * Guidance to think.

> > * They are part of the process of thinking

> > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come

> and

> > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked

> malefic

> > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the

> > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know

> that

> > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire

> > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself -

> > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold

> method

> > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful

> mind

> > think about it - and you will see what I mean.

> > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles -

> you

> > will what I mean.

> > ==>

> > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and

> > > then try to find answers,

> > <==

> > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house

> > specific' that too is right.

> > ==>

> > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > individual " and tried to understand the reason

> > <==

> > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because

> that

> > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic

> > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation,

> and

> > not related to anything else.

> > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did

> you

> > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it

> doesn't

> > work?

> > Now let us come to your comment on the same -

> > Comment -1

> > ==>

> > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is

> > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the

> > > obsecure cases is required.

> > <==

> > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example

> horoscopes?

> > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to

> go -

> > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go

> > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even

> the

> > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base

> > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " !

> > Comment -2

> > ==>

> > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains,

> > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

> objective

> > > of the life. This is what i observed.

> > <==

> > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last

> > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started

> > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a

> smart

> > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about

> it).

> > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -

> " This

> > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more

> > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your

> > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training

> > period and clear the testing phase! :=)

> > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you

> very

> > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential.

> > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake

> of

> > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough

> for

> > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional

> > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I

> > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the

> > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be.

> > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of

> > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not

> > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a

> learner,

> > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -

>

> > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and

> never

> > can be.

> > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder...

> > Love and Hugs,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present

> > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In

> similar

> > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does

> it;

> > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I

> > will

> > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from

> Logic.

> > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting

> > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of

> > the

> > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel

> that

> > I

> > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody

> > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the

> > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-

> > Learner,

> > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in

> > this

> > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by

> > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to

> > anyone.

> > > Please understand this.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " litsol "

> > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > >

> > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something

> > and

> > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

> > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this

> time,

> > > now

> > > > onwards will never try to correct you.

> > > >

> > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should

> > lagna

> > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is

> > only

> > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find

> > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

> > > understanding

> > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in

> teaching

> > > is

> > > > affecting ur's learning only.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Lalit

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact

> to

> > > all

> > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing

> > what

> > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other

> > parameters.

> > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such

> as

> > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it

> > is

> > > > not

> > > > > that simple.

> > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some

> inflexible

> > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to

> > what

> > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can

> > point

> > > > to.

> > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something -

> > present

> > > > it

> > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong,

> or

> > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you

> > think

> > > > it

> > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such

> > in

> > > > some

> > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as

> > well -

> > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in

> some

> > > > known

> > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> > > > verification,

> > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

> > > neglected.

> > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss

> > can

> > > > > mean many things -

> > > > > * It could be abortion

> > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the

> > case

> > > of

> > > > > Indira Gandhi)

> > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > > > > possibilities as well.

> > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details -

> > instead

> > > > what

> > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

> > > > concepts

> > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying

> to

> > > > master

> > > > > that technique' - know this well.

> > > > > ==>

> > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined

> to

> > > mere

> > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

> not

> > > the

> > > > > > objective.

> > > > > <==

> > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> > > > objective

> > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things

> > > (i.e.

> > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

> > > astrology)

> > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in

> > the

> > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand,

> > > > > systematically.

> > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses

> was

> > > > there

> > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading

> > > goes

> > > > to

> > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same;

> but

> > > > alas!

> > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on

> the

> > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology

> > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study

> > them

> > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought

> > out

> > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to

> understand

> > > and

> > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view

> matches

> > > > with

> > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

> > > valuable -

> > > >

> > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in

> > what

> > > u

> > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact,

> i

> > > > saw,

> > > > > u

> > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a

> lot,

> > > but

> > > > > just

> > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to

> cover

> > > up.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > > hopeless

> > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be

> more

> > > > > specific

> > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

> > > > learning

> > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> > > > > otherwise,

> > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to

> > > mere

> > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

> not

> > > the

> > > > > > objective.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no

> business

> > > to

> > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just

> simply

> > > > learn!

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th

> > house

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to

> understand

> > > the

> > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

> > > placement

> > > > in

> > > > > > > 5'th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to

> loss

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death

> of

> > > > child

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

> > > malificance.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th

> > > house

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as

> > well

> > > > as

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

> > > > approach

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect

> the

> > > > > > obsecure

> > > > > > > > cases is required.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house

> > of

> > > > > gains,

> > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th

> house

> > > > makes

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > > promting

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is

> discussed

> > > > below.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but

> > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-

> being

> > > from

> > > > > > > > children and

> > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there

> > is

> > > > some

> > > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the

> people

> > > with

> > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > > will

> > > > > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry;

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his

> > first

> > > > > child.

> > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > > > reputation.

> > > > > He

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an

> > > angry

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could

> > be -

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd

> > > house.

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in

> > 5th

> > > > > > > increases

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that

> > 5th

> > > is

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a

> > > > > straight

> > > > > > > > forward

> > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that

> the

> > > > native

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would

> be

> > > > that

> > > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

> > providing

> > > > > > > children

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if

> > lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have

> double

> > > > > impact,

> > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the

> lagna

> > > lord

> > > > > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could

> signify

> > > the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child

> > as

> > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > Actually

> > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > provides

> > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in

> > 5th

> > > > > house!

> > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to

> imagine

> > > any

> > > > > > solid

> > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any

> malefic

> > > > > > influence

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is

> available,

> > > > which

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud;

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first

> child.

> > > He

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's

> > > place.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost

> > same

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should

> be

> > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since

> the

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna

> > > lord

> > > > is

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara

> > will

> > > > not

> > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house'

> in

> > > many

> > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing

> > > style

> > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

> > > Meenaraja

> > > > > has

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > > children,

> > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > will

> > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > qualities,

> > > > he

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word

> > Suseela

> > > > is

> > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word

> based

> > > on

> > > > > > actual

> > > > > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th

> `provides

> > > > > children'

> > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara

> > > only

> > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does

> > not

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we

> combine

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> > > > conclusion

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may

> > loss

> > > > his

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss

> of

> > > > first

> > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the

> absence

> > > of

> > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial

> inference.

> > > (An

> > > > > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam

> is

> > > > > almost

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > > children,

> > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > will

> > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good

> qualities,

> > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the

> > > native

> > > > > > angry -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > why?

> > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the

> > > natural

> > > > > > > > significator

> > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as

> > > > similar

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > sun

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach?

> I

> > > am

> > > > > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with

> > > similar

> > > > > > > > combination

> > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated

> > similar

> > > > to

> > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above

> > rule.

> > > > If

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore

> the

> > > > above

> > > > > > > rule.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable

> > > enough

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by

> > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > as -

> > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it

> > > will

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > make the

> > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some

> other

> > > > logic

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

> > > > something

> > > > > > > > without a

> > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result

> > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with

> > House

> > > > base

> > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some

> > > other

> > > > in-

> > > > > > > depth

> > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze

> > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check

> > > > whether

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a

> > > sign

> > > > > > > > signifying

> > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate

> > loss

> > > > of

> > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > sure.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is

> > the

> > > > > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship

> > of

> > > > 6th

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can

> > > > > indicate

> > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that

> > Venus

> > > > the

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as

> > > well.

> > > > > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > sign

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of

> child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord

> of

> > > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

> > > certainly

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of

> Capricorn

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > owns

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can

> > indicate

> > > > bad

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both

> > > > Mercury

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna

> lord

> > > > Venus

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for

> > > most

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > 12

> > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss

> > of

> > > > > child,

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius

> > and

> > > > > > Pisces

> > > > > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a

> > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > > deep

> > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord

> in

> > > 5th

> > > > > is

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into

> the

> > > > brief

> > > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -

>

> > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong

> > and

> > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a

> > > > result

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For

> this

> > > > prime

> > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely

> right.

> > > But

> > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep

> > understanding

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding

> > > lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in

> > 5th,

> > > > due

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs

> > itself.

> > > > So

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > opinion

> > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the

> > > Signs

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death

> as

> > > far

> > > > as

> > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed

> by

> > > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature

> of

> > > 5th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you

> > > will

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such

> as

> > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper

> understanding

> > > which

> > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

> > > Meenaraja

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > right, but

> > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is

> > concerned

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara

> goes

> > > > > deeper

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other

> > > > > > situations

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general

> > result

> > > > > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and

> > is

> > > > more

> > > > > > far

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is

> > more

> > > > > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara

> is

> > > > termed

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > sage,

> > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not

> > > does

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > allow me

> > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he

> > > mixed

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > methods

> > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing

> > with

> > > > > House

> > > > > > > Base

> > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner.

> I

> > > > would

> > > > > > > > suggest

> > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to

> > the

> > > > > > cleaner

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while

> trying

> > > to

> > > > > > master

> > > > > > > > House

> > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

> > > possibilities

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt

> with

> > > and

> > > > > > > > understood,

> > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

> derivation

> > > > > > technique.

> > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> > > > > intelligence,

> > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret

> > > hymns

> > > > > > > recited

> > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates

> > special

> > > > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> Sreenadh/

> > > > > > > > La\

> > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

More 10 - 12 years and then a new curve will begin....

regards,

Lalit.

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Mmm....I know it takes time...

> Take care....

> Love,

> Sreenadh

> , " litsol " <mlalit@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh,

> >

> > Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script

writer,

> > director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.

> >

> > I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective

> > learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more

effective

> > but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept

ur

> > shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.

> >

> > u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per

ur

> > convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince

and

> > define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.

> >

> > when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about

> > subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will

never

> > be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.

> >

> > I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit.

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > The questions in articles are -

> > > * Guidance to think.

> > > * They are part of the process of thinking

> > > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to

come

> > and

> > > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked

> > malefic

> > > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you

the

> > > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ;

know

> > that

> > > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the

fire

> > > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself -

> > > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold

> > method

> > > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a

peaceful

> > mind

> > > think about it - and you will see what I mean.

> > > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles -

> > you

> > > will what I mean.

> > > ==>

> > > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions

and

> > > > then try to find answers,

> > > <==

> > > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house

> > > specific' that too is right.

> > > ==>

> > > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason

> > > <==

> > > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it -

because

> > that

> > > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the

logic

> > > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base'

derivation,

> > and

> > > not related to anything else.

> > > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question?

Did

> > you

> > > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it

> > doesn't

> > > work?

> > > Now let us come to your comment on the same -

> > > Comment -1

> > > ==>

> > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

approach is

> > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> > > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect

the

> > > > obsecure cases is required.

> > > <==

> > > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example

> > horoscopes?

> > > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way

to

> > go -

> > > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that;

go

> > > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks

even

> > the

> > > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House

Base

> > > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " !

> > > Comment -2

> > > ==>

> > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of

gains,

> > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> > > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

> > objective

> > > > of the life. This is what i observed.

> > > <==

> > > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the

last

> > > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you

started

> > > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a

> > smart

> > > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy

about

> > it).

> > > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -

> > " This

> > > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more

> > > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations -

your

> > > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the

training

> > > period and clear the testing phase! :=)

> > > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love

you

> > very

> > > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good

potential.

> > > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the

mistake

> > of

> > > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not

enough

> > for

> > > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional

> > > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a

teacher; I

> > > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus

the

> > > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can

be.

> > > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of

> > > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is

not

> > > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a

> > learner,

> > > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is

limited -

> >

> > > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and

> > never

> > > can be.

> > > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder...

> > > Love and Hugs,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject?

Present

> > > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In

> > similar

> > > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji

does

> > it;

> > > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members)

and I

> > > will

> > > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from

> > Logic.

> > > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and

presenting

> > > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer,

and of

> > > the

> > > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or

feel

> > that

> > > I

> > > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves.

Everybody

> > > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about

the

> > > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-

> > > Learner,

> > > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present

in

> > > this

> > > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom

presented by

> > > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to

> > > anyone.

> > > > Please understand this.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " litsol "

> > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > >

> > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing

something

> > > and

> > > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks

the

> > > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this

> > time,

> > > > now

> > > > > onwards will never try to correct you.

> > > > >

> > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why

should

> > > lagna

> > > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post

is

> > > only

> > > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to

find

> > > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

> > > > understanding

> > > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in

> > teaching

> > > > is

> > > > > affecting ur's learning only.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known

fact

> > to

> > > > all

> > > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same.

Knowing

> > > what

> > > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other

> > > parameters.

> > > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies

such

> > as

> > > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering

other

> > > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go

and it

> > > is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > that simple.

> > > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some

> > inflexible

> > > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see

to

> > > what

> > > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique

can

> > > point

> > > > > to.

> > > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something -

> > > present

> > > > > it

> > > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is

wrong,

> > or

> > > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic

you

> > > think

> > > > > it

> > > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and

such

> > > in

> > > > > some

> > > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy

as

> > > well -

> > > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present

in

> > some

> > > > > known

> > > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> > > > > verification,

> > > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

> > > > neglected.

> > > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study).

Loss

> > > can

> > > > > > mean many things -

> > > > > > * It could be abortion

> > > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in

the

> > > case

> > > > of

> > > > > > Indira Gandhi)

> > > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > > > > > possibilities as well.

> > > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details -

> > > instead

> > > > > what

> > > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background

and

> > > > > concepts

> > > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus

trying

> > to

> > > > > master

> > > > > > that technique' - know this well.

> > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be

confined

> > to

> > > > mere

> > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is

certainly

> > not

> > > > the

> > > > > > > objective.

> > > > > > <==

> > > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding

of

> > > > > objective

> > > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar

things

> > > > (i.e.

> > > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

> > > > astrology)

> > > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself

in

> > > the

> > > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in

hand,

> > > > > > systematically.

> > > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various

houses

> > was

> > > > > there

> > > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file

uploading

> > > > goes

> > > > > to

> > > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the

same;

> > but

> > > > > alas!

> > > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend

on

> > the

> > > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach

astrology

> > > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and

study

> > > them

> > > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well

thought

> > > out

> > > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to

> > understand

> > > > and

> > > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view

> > matches

> > > > > with

> > > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

> > > > valuable -

> > > > >

> > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings

in

> > > what

> > > > u

> > > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in

fact,

> > i

> > > > > saw,

> > > > > > u

> > > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a

> > lot,

> > > > but

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to

> > cover

> > > > up.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may

be

> > > > hopeless

> > > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to

be

> > more

> > > > > > specific

> > > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a

right

> > > > > learning

> > > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every

one,

> > > > > > otherwise,

> > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be

confined to

> > > > mere

> > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is

certainly

> > not

> > > > the

> > > > > > > objective.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no

> > business

> > > > to

> > > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just

> > simply

> > > > > learn!

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " litsol "

> > > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on

5'th

> > > house

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to

> > understand

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

> > > > placement

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5'th

> > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to

> > loss

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child,

death

> > of

> > > > > child

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

> > > > malificance.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that

4'th

> > > > house

> > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house

as

> > > well

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics,

ur

> > > > > approach

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings,

but

> > > as

> > > > > far

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and

dissect

> > the

> > > > > > > obsecure

> > > > > > > > > cases is required.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the

house

> > > of

> > > > > > gains,

> > > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th

> > house

> > > > > makes

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is

self

> > > > > promting

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

objective

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is

> > discussed

> > > > > below.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be

proud an

> > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry

but

> > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-

> > being

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > children and

> > > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if

there

> > > is

> > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the

> > people

> > > > with

> > > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or

rulership

> > and

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with

good

> > > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be

angry;

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose

his

> > > first

> > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > > > > reputation.

> > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the

native an

> > > > angry

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind

could

> > > be -

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of

3rd

> > > > house.

> > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord

in

> > > 5th

> > > > > > > > increases

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not

that

> > > 5th

> > > > is

> > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the

native a

> > > > > > straight

> > > > > > > > > forward

> > > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka

that

> > the

> > > > > native

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation

would

> > be

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

> > > providing

> > > > > > > > children

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course

if

> > > lagna

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have

> > double

> > > > > > impact,

> > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the

> > lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could

> > signify

> > > > the

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first

child

> > > as

> > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > > Actually

> > > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora.

But

> > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > provides

> > > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence

in

> > > 5th

> > > > > > house!

> > > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to

> > imagine

> > > > any

> > > > > > > solid

> > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any

> > malefic

> > > > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is

> > available,

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be

proud;

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first

> > child.

> > > > He

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the

king's

> > > > place.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives

almost

> > > same

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child

should

> > be

> > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house,

since

> > the

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if

lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka

Parasara

> > > will

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x

house'

> > in

> > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this

writing

> > > > style

> > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

> > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will

have

> > > > > children,

> > > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or

rulership

> > and

> > > > will

> > > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > > qualities,

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word

> > > Suseela

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word

> > based

> > > > on

> > > > > > > actual

> > > > > > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th

> > `provides

> > > > > > children'

> > > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though

Parasara

> > > > only

> > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too

does

> > > not

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we

> > combine

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the

only

> > > > > conclusion

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he

may

> > > loss

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the

loss

> > of

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the

> > absence

> > > > of

> > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial

> > inference.

> > > > (An

> > > > > > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora

Pradeepam

> > is

> > > > > > almost

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will

have

> > > > > children,

> > > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or

rulership

> > and

> > > > will

> > > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good

> > qualities,

> > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make

the

> > > > native

> > > > > > > angry -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > why?

> > > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is

the

> > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > significator

> > > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th

as

> > > > > similar

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > sun

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified

and

> > > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct

approach?

> > I

> > > > am

> > > > > > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts

with

> > > > similar

> > > > > > > > > combination

> > > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated

> > > similar

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of

Lagna.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the

above

> > > rule.

> > > > > If

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to

ignore

> > the

> > > > > above

> > > > > > > > rule.

> > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be

capable

> > > > enough

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results

proposed by

> > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > as -

> > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first

child; it

> > > > will

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > make the

> > > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some

> > other

> > > > > logic

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not

say

> > > > > something

> > > > > > > > > without a

> > > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base

result

> > > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing

with

> > > House

> > > > > base

> > > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be

some

> > > > other

> > > > > in-

> > > > > > > > depth

> > > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us

analyze

> > > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and

check

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo

is a

> > > > sign

> > > > > > > > > signifying

> > > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can

indicate

> > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > sure.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo

is

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the

lordship

> > > of

> > > > > 6th

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th

can

> > > > > > indicate

> > > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note

that

> > > Venus

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating

death) as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > > sign

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of

> > child.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the

lord

> > of

> > > > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

> > > > certainly

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of

child.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of

> > Capricorn

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > owns

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can

> > > indicate

> > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that

both

> > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that

lagna

> > lord

> > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic,

and a

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that

for

> > > > most

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 12

> > > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the

loss

> > > of

> > > > > > child,

> > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for

Aquarius

> > > and

> > > > > > > Pisces

> > > > > > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not

making a

> > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation

sprung

> > > from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > deep

> > > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna

lord

> > in

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized

into

> > the

> > > > > brief

> > > > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such

as -

> >

> > > > loss

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was

wrong

> > > and

> > > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was

deriving a

> > > > > result

> > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone.

For

> > this

> > > > > prime

> > > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely

> > right.

> > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep

> > > understanding

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement

regarding

> > > > lagna

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord

in

> > > 5th,

> > > > > due

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs

> > > itself.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > opinion

> > > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know

the

> > > > Signs

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to

death

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as

proposed

> > by

> > > > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special

nature

> > of

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The

you

> > > > will

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results

such

> > as

> > > > loss

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper

> > understanding

> > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

> > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > right, but

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is

> > > concerned

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but

Parasara

> > goes

> > > > > > deeper

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in

other

> > > > > > > situations

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a

better

> > > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general

> > > result

> > > > > > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths;

and

> > > is

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > far

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he

is

> > > more

> > > > > > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding;

Parasara

> > is

> > > > > termed

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > sage,

> > > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does

not

> > > > does

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > allow me

> > > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result

he

> > > > mixed

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > methods

> > > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while

dealing

> > > with

> > > > > > House

> > > > > > > > Base

> > > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the

learner.

> > I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > suggest

> > > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick

to

> > > the

> > > > > > > cleaner

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while

> > trying

> > > > to

> > > > > > > master

> > > > > > > > > House

> > > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

> > > > possibilities

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should

dealt

> > with

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > understood,

> > > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

> > derivation

> > > > > > > technique.

> > > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as -

children,

> > > > > > intelligence,

> > > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers,

secret

> > > > hymns

> > > > > > > > recited

> > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates

> > > special

> > > > > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

Sreenadh/

> > > > > > > > > La\

> > > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 27, 2007

> Dear Lalit ji,

> " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless

> child, it may be a child with poor health, "

Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless

child?

Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to

do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant

society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do

you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic

influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope?

I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and

female hold equal status in this world.

blessings

Renu

September 27, 2007

These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are arishta

Bhanga yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still health considerations

or stress during birth to the child and or mother, but only when there are

arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and certainly no cause for a girl!

You will see these yogas in charts of babies born with emergency c-section for

instance.

Jai Rama,

Ernst

On Behalf Of renunw

Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM

Re: Lagna lord in 5th House

> Dear Lalit ji,

> " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless

> child, it may be a child with poor health, "

Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless

child?

Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to

do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant

society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do

you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic

influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope?

I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and

female hold equal status in this world.

blessings

Renu

September 27, 2007

Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post,

instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel

to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that

> was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by

that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above

facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even

though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji

does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> >

Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and

then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are,

needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or

> > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of

> > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never

read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be

girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur

ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > >

> > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > >

> > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > >

> > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and>

> > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and >

> > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > >

increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > >

> > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > >

> > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which >

> > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > >

> > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > >

> related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > >

> many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of

first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial

inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > >

> do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and

> > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other

> > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in

their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship

> of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer

lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th

house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12

signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > >

> combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> >

> > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > >

> first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the

case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by

Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna

lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > >

> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

September 28, 2007

Hare ramakrishna,

dear renu ji ,

lalit will not insult a female because she born as female .I know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.

Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post

rgds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

, "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> > Dear Lalit ji,> > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless > child?> Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope?> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and > female hold equal status in this world. > > blessings> > Renu>

September 28, 2007

My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m

a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology

demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to

'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that

"the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more

> pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important.

But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or

from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to

correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. >

> > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as

per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It

could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of

this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > >

> > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > >

> > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > >

-----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power

> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a

proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna

lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for

5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child

> as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same

sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results

> > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter

this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > >

> > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > >

> says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > >

> > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities,

> he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > >

> 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > >

> native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > >

possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > >

> > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > >

> > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate

lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > >

deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th

alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja

is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such

as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > >

> > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but

Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > >

> and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > >

> > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > >

==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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September 28, 2007

Dear Sunil ji,

I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I

am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...

Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was

that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a

sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has

put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped

or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why

can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'?

A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a

result of affliction to child giving houses!!!

blessings

Renu

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Hare ramakrishna,

>

> dear renu ji ,

>

> lalit will not insult a female because she born as

female .I

> know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a

> persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.

>

> Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post

>

> rgds sunil nair

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

, " renunw " <renunw@>

> wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> >

> > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

hopeless

> > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> >

> > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and

> > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

hopeless

> > child?

> > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

nothing to

> > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> >

> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

dominant

> > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

daughter? Do

> > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

malefic

> > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> horoscope?

> >

> > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male

and

> > female hold equal status in this world.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

>

September 28, 2007

No offense... just wondering about your point on view on this sloka... Dhol, gawanr, sudra, pasu, nari yeh sab tadan ke adhikari isnt from Ramcharitmanas ? Best Wishes Jagdishrenunw <renunw wrote: Dear Sunil ji,I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...Anyway I don't think it was a language

problem. What he wrote was that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a result of affliction to child giving houses!!!blessingsRenu , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > Hare ramakrishna,> > dear renu ji ,> > lalit will not insult a female because she born as female .I> know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a> persons cannot

humilate a woman according to the tradition.> > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post> > rgds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > , "renunw" <renunw@>> wrote:> >> > > Dear Lalit ji,> >> > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless> > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> >> >> > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and> > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless> > child?> > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to> > do with gender but may be I agree

with your other suggestions.> >> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant> > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do> > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic> > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's> horoscope?> >> >> > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and> > female hold equal status in this world.> >> > blessings> >> > Renu> >>

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September 28, 2007

Moon in 5th house and you have boys ... no girls ? Hmm... interesting... Best Wishes Jagdishzhar bird <blagomot wrote: My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or

self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada > wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from

members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not

checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post -

"Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is

required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement

"This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer,

but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing

that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members

present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should

> lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit

ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to

understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context

and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > >

> translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section

for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research,

experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover >

> up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > >

objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > >

> > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such

writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some >

> > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native

will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of

3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be

> > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify >

> the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > >

> > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > >

> > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > >

> > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th

`provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > >

child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > >

enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna

lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun >

> > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna

lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > >

depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as

> > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a

> > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > >

without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > >

result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself.

> > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > >

will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > >

> > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth

understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > >

suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,>

> > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> >

> > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

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September 28, 2007

yes!Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: Moon in 5th house and you have boys ... no girls ? Hmm... interesting... Best Wishes Jagdishzhar bird <blagomot > wrote: My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would

have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada > wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his

first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective

learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to

think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find

answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive

coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a

teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody >

> should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding,

very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > >

conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the

combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > >

> master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a

background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the

sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u

> > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > >

> > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think

not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > >

house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > >

> should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being >

> from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord

is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind

could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the >

> > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th

house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine >

> any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > >

> > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > >

5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and

kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > >

actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his

> > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children,

> > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > >

Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > >

satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with

> House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate >

loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that

> Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death)

as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that

lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces >

> > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'.

Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be

completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th >

> > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > >

> > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > >

> > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > >

> > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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September 28, 2007

Hare ramakrishna

dear renu ji ,

Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may be rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his experince of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved here.

See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth control meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may not work in humans.

And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he become ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking the way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav passed tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks and subsequent plundering has contributed to it.

with regrds

sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

, "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> > Dear Sunil ji,> > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...> > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a > result of affliction to child giving houses!!!> > blessings> > Renu> > , "sunil nair" > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > dear renu ji ,> > > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as > female .I> > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a> > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.> > > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post> > > > rgds sunil nair> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "renunw" <renunw@>> > wrote:> > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > >> > > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > hopeless> > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> > >> > >> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and> > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a > hopeless> > > child?> > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has > nothing to> > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.> > >> > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male > dominant> > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a > daughter? Do> > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a > malefic> > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's> > horoscope?> > >> > >> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male > and> > > female hold equal status in this world.> > >> > > blessings> > >> > > Renu> > >> >>

September 28, 2007

Dear Sunil ji,

Thanks for your concern and attempted but clever calrification!! I

agree Lalit ji did not write this intentionally. No hard feelings

with anyone. Everybody is free to express their perceptions.

Whether he was speaking through experience or not was not confirmed

in that posting. I only wanted to point out that it was not fair to

say so. It doesn't affect me personally at all. But from what I have

learnt and heard, a baby girl born to Indian parents is not

considered as an auspiscious event. [May be I am wrong. You can

enlighten me on this....] This attitude prevails in Sri Lanka too,

but not very much now. So may be such unintended but absurd

statements are written on that basis. I hate to see this attitude

towards women still prevailing in the Indian sub continent! I am

sure most of you in this forum think more liberally..

One may say that this is irrelevant to the current thread. But then,

one might be misled by such unconfirmed assumptions regarding

planetary placemtns.

blessings

Renu

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Hare ramakrishna

>

> dear renu ji ,

>

> Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may

be

> rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his

experince

> of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved

> here.

>

> See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth

control

> meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may

not

> work in humans.

>

> And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he

become

> ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking

the

> way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav

passed

> tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks

and

> subsequent plundering has contributed to it.

>

> with regrds

>

> sunil nair

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

>

> , " renunw " <renunw@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sunil ji,

> >

> > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a

mistake. I

> > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...

> >

> > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was

> > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a

> > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he

has

> > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other

handicapped

> > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why

> > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy

child'?

> > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born

as a

> > result of affliction to child giving houses!!!

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> > , " sunil nair "

> > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare ramakrishna,

> > >

> > > dear renu ji ,

> > >

> > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as

> > female .I

> > > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such

a

> > > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.

> > >

> > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post

> > >

> > > rgds sunil nair

> > >

> > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > >

> > > , " renunw "

<renunw@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > >

> > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > hopeless

> > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > > >

> > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd

and

> > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> > hopeless

> > > > child?

> > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> > nothing to

> > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other

suggestions.

> > > >

> > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > dominant

> > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> > daughter? Do

> > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > malefic

> > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > > horoscope?

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that

male

> > and

> > > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > > >

> > > > blessings

> > > >

> > > > Renu

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2007

Dear Javed ji,

Yes, that shows that Parasara was right - and Lalit's effort to

mixing too much water into it such as the following was wrong.

==>

A malefic influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the first

child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is an

extreme result which happens in cases of extreme maleificance.

<==

Hope Lalit ji will take it as a lesson - and see the slokas put

forward by the sages with more trust.

==>

> Mine lagna lord is Mars, which is placed in 5th house in my

lagna chart. When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy, she had a

miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby, after that we have four

children, quite healthy.

<==

Yes, it seems that Parasara was well aware of the contextual

importance of signs for LL in placement in 5th for all the houses.

Note that except for Aquarius and possibly for Pisces, for all the

other houses 'LL in 5th' got some association with its sign of

debilitation or 8th house or 12th house.

But still i am a bit in dis-satisfied by the fact that Parasara

considered or mixed 'Sign-Hous Base' result while dealing with 'House-

Base' result derivation technique.

Love,

Sreenadh

, javed khaanzada

<javed_khaanzada wrote:

>

> Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji,

>

> As in Parasar Hora stated:

>

> If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have

moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first

child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and

reputation. He would be dear to the king.

>

> Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna

chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss

carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four

children,quite healthy.

>

> Regds-javed

>

> litsol <mlalit wrote:

> Dear Srinadh,

>

> Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script

writer,

> director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.

>

> I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective

> learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective

> but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept

ur

> shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.

>

> u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur

> convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and

> define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.

>

> when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about

> subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never

> be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.

>

> I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.

>

> regards,

> Lalit.

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lalit ji,

> > The questions in articles are -

> > * Guidance to think.

> > * They are part of the process of thinking

> > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come

> and

> > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked

> malefic

> > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you

the

> > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know

> that

> > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the

fire

> > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself -

> > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold

> method

> > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful

> mind

> > think about it - and you will see what I mean.

> > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles -

> you

> > will what I mean.

> > ==>

> > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions

and

> > > then try to find answers,

> > <==

> > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house

> > specific' that too is right.

> > ==>

> > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna

> > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > individual " and tried to understand the reason

> > <==

> > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because

> that

> > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the

logic

> > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation,

> and

> > not related to anything else.

> > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did

> you

> > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it

> doesn't

> > work?

> > Now let us come to your comment on the same -

> > Comment -1

> > ==>

> > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach

is

> > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as

> > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect

the

> > > obsecure cases is required.

> > <==

> > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example

> horoscopes?

> > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to

> go -

> > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go

> > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even

> the

> > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base

> > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " !

> > Comment -2

> > ==>

> > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of

gains,

> > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house

> > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

> objective

> > > of the life. This is what i observed.

> > <==

> > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the

last

> > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started

> > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a

> smart

> > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about

> it).

> > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -

> " This

> > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more

> > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your

> > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training

> > period and clear the testing phase! :=)

> > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you

> very

> > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good

potential.

> > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake

> of

> > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough

> for

> > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional

> > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher;

I

> > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the

> > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be.

> > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of

> > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is

not

> > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a

> learner,

> > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is

limited -

>

> > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and

> never

> > can be.

> > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder...

> > Love and Hugs,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject?

Present

> > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In

> similar

> > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does

> it;

> > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and

I

> > will

> > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from

> Logic.

> > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting

> > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and

of

> > the

> > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel

> that

> > I

> > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves.

Everybody

> > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the

> > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-

> > Learner,

> > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present

in

> > this

> > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented

by

> > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to

> > anyone.

> > > Please understand this.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " litsol "

> > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > >

> > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing

something

> > and

> > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the

> > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this

> time,

> > > now

> > > > onwards will never try to correct you.

> > > >

> > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should

> > lagna

> > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive

> > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is

> > only

> > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to

find

> > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my

> > > understanding

> > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in

> teaching

> > > is

> > > > affecting ur's learning only.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Lalit

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact

> to

> > > all

> > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing

> > what

> > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other

> > parameters.

> > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies

such

> as

> > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other

> > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and

it

> > is

> > > > not

> > > > > that simple.

> > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some

> inflexible

> > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see

to

> > what

> > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can

> > point

> > > > to.

> > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are.

> > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something -

> > present

> > > > it

> > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong,

> or

> > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you

> > think

> > > > it

> > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and

such

> > in

> > > > some

> > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as

> > well -

> > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in

> some

> > > > known

> > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for

> > > > verification,

> > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be

> > > neglected.

> > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study).

Loss

> > can

> > > > > mean many things -

> > > > > * It could be abortion

> > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the

> > case

> > > of

> > > > > Indira Gandhi)

> > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other

> > > > > possibilities as well.

> > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details -

> > instead

> > > > what

> > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and

> > > > concepts

> > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying

> to

> > > > master

> > > > > that technique' - know this well.

> > > > > ==>

> > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined

> to

> > > mere

> > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

> not

> > > the

> > > > > > objective.

> > > > > <==

> > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of

> > > > objective

> > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -

> > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread

> > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things

> > > (i.e.

> > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of

> > > astrology)

> > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in

> > the

> > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in

hand,

> > > > > systematically.

> > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses

> was

> > > > there

> > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file

uploading

> > > goes

> > > > to

> > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same;

> but

> > > > alas!

> > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on

> the

> > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach

astrology

> > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and

study

> > them

> > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well

thought

> > out

> > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to

> understand

> > > and

> > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view

> matches

> > > > with

> > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be

> > > valuable -

> > > >

> > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.

> > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.

> > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in

> > what

> > > u

> > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in

fact,

> i

> > > > saw,

> > > > > u

> > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a

> lot,

> > > but

> > > > > just

> > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to

> cover

> > > up.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > > hopeless

> > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be

> more

> > > > > specific

> > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right

> > > > learning

> > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one,

> > > > > otherwise,

> > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined

to

> > > mere

> > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly

> not

> > > the

> > > > > > objective.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no

> business

> > > to

> > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just

> simply

> > > > learn!

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " litsol "

> > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th

> > house

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to

> understand

> > > the

> > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's

> > > placement

> > > > in

> > > > > > > 5'th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to

> loss

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child,

death

> of

> > > > child

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme

> > > malificance.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that

4'th

> > > house

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house

as

> > well

> > > > as

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur

> > > > approach

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings,

but

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect

> the

> > > > > > obsecure

> > > > > > > > cases is required.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the

house

> > of

> > > > > gains,

> > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th

> house

> > > > makes

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self

> > > > promting

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main

objective

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is what i observed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is

> discussed

> > > > below.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House

> > > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud

an

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry

but

> > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > kind.

> > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-

> being

> > > from

> > > > > > > > children and

> > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if

there

> > is

> > > > some

> > > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the

> people

> > > with

> > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > > will

> > > > > > > enjoy a

> > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with

good

> > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > do many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry;

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his

> > first

> > > > > child.

> > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and

> > > > reputation.

> > > > > He

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > dear to the king.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native

an

> > > angry

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind

could

> > be -

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of

3rd

> > > house.

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord

in

> > 5th

> > > > > > > increases

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not

that

> > 5th

> > > is

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native

a

> > > > > straight

> > > > > > > > forward

> > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that

> the

> > > > native

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation

would

> be

> > > > that

> > > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus

> > providing

> > > > > > > children

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if

> > lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > in 5th

> > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have

> double

> > > > > impact,

> > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the

> lagna

> > > lord

> > > > > > > > amplifying

> > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could

> signify

> > > the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first

child

> > as

> > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > Actually

> > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora.

But

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > provides

> > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence

in

> > 5th

> > > > > house!

> > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to

> imagine

> > > any

> > > > > > solid

> > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any

> malefic

> > > > > > influence

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is

> available,

> > > > which

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > provides similar results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud;

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > moderate

> > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first

> child.

> > > He

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the

king's

> > > place.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives

almost

> > same

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child

should

> be

> > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since

> the

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if

lagna

> > > lord

> > > > is

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara

> > will

> > > > not

> > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x

house'

> in

> > > many

> > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this

writing

> > > style

> > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what

> > > Meenaraja

> > > > > has

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > > children,

> > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > will

> > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good

> > > qualities,

> > > > he

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > many good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word

> > Suseela

> > > > is

> > > > > > > quoted

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word

> based

> > > on

> > > > > > actual

> > > > > > > > > experience observed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th

> `provides

> > > > > children'

> > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though

Parasara

> > > only

> > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too

does

> > not

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we

> combine

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only

> > > > conclusion

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may

> > loss

> > > > his

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the

loss

> of

> > > > first

> > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the

> absence

> > > of

> > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial

> inference.

> > > (An

> > > > > > > > amendment is

> > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora

Pradeepam

> is

> > > > > almost

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have

> > > > children,

> > > > > > > > righteous

> > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership

> and

> > > will

> > > > > > enjoy

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good

> qualities,

> > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > good deeds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the

> > > native

> > > > > > angry -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > why?

> > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the

> > > natural

> > > > > > > > significator

> > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th

as

> > > > similar

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > sun

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified

and

> > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct

approach?

> I

> > > am

> > > > > > > doubtful.

> > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with

> > > similar

> > > > > > > > combination

> > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated

> > similar

> > > > to

> > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of

Lagna.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above

> > rule.

> > > > If

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore

> the

> > > > above

> > > > > > > rule.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable

> > > enough

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed

by

> > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > as -

> > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child;

it

> > > will

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > make the

> > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some

> other

> > > > logic

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say

> > > > something

> > > > > > > > without a

> > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base

result

> > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with

> > House

> > > > base

> > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be

some

> > > other

> > > > in-

> > > > > > > depth

> > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us

analyze

> > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and

check

> > > > whether

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is

a

> > > sign

> > > > > > > > signifying

> > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can

indicate

> > loss

> > > > of

> > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > sure.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo

is

> > the

> > > > > > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the

lordship

> > of

> > > > 6th

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th

can

> > > > > indicate

> > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > child for sure.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that

> > Venus

> > > > the

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death)

as

> > > well.

> > > > > > > > Possibly the

> > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the

> > > > debilitation

> > > > > > > sign

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of

> child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the

lord

> of

> > > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus

> > > certainly

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of

> Capricorn

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > owns

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can

> > indicate

> > > > bad

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that

both

> > > > Mercury

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna

> lord

> > > > Venus

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and

a

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that

for

> > > most

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > 12

> > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the

loss

> > of

> > > > > child,

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for

Aquarius

> > and

> > > > > > Pisces

> > > > > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making

a

> > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation

sprung

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > > deep

> > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna

lord

> in

> > > 5th

> > > > > is

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into

> the

> > > > brief

> > > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such

as -

>

> > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was

wrong

> > and

> > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving

a

> > > > result

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For

> this

> > > > prime

> > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely

> right.

> > > But

> > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep

> > understanding

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement

regarding

> > > lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in

> > 5th,

> > > > due

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs

> > itself.

> > > > So

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > opinion

> > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know

the

> > > Signs

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death

> as

> > > far

> > > > as

> > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as

proposed

> by

> > > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature

> of

> > > 5th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The

you

> > > will

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such

> as

> > > loss

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper

> understanding

> > > which

> > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes,

> > > Meenaraja

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > right, but

> > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is

> > concerned

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara

> goes

> > > > > deeper

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in

other

> > > > > > situations

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better

> > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general

> > result

> > > > > > > > derivation. His

> > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths;

and

> > is

> > > > more

> > > > > > far

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he

is

> > more

> > > > > > > > practical. It

> > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara

> is

> > > > termed

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > sage,

> > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does

not

> > > does

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > allow me

> > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result

he

> > > mixed

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > methods

> > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing

> > with

> > > > > House

> > > > > > > Base

> > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the

learner.

> I

> > > > would

> > > > > > > > suggest

> > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick

to

> > the

> > > > > > cleaner

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while

> trying

> > > to

> > > > > > master

> > > > > > > > House

> > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper

> > > possibilities

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt

> with

> > > and

> > > > > > > > understood,

> > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result

> derivation

> > > > > > technique.

> > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children,

> > > > > intelligence,

> > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers,

secret

> > > hymns

> > > > > > > recited

> > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates

> > special

> > > > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Extract from:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sreenadh/

> > > > > > > > La\

> > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf

> > > > > > > > > ==============================================

> > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

September 28, 2007

Dear Renu ji,

I m taken wrongly beacuse of the way i did write the mail, pls. dont

take girl child along with the other negative things i happen to

write in same line. i dont discriminate girls and guys.

I dont see any difference between girl and guy, the soul takes birth

in form of two opposits - girl and guy, so, where difference comes in

between.

It takes hard to go above sex(male or female) oriented approach, one

may spend whole life thinking and behaving as male or female, whereas

one should know one is one sould wrapped in a particular body of

particualr sex.

There are age old men with good status in society i came across, who

still thinks love making with a girl is a kind of vitcory, a kind of

wining the female partner, this hidden sexual disorderness in mind

leads them to become incompetant in their love making, they dont get

what for nature has invented sex. This also shows an hatred approach

in heart, this disables them from having a sense of completness.

I sometimes criticize delhi's girls for their immaturity in

understanding the beauti of sex and dignity of sweet love. they are

becoming mechanical, this is affecting families, Delhi is the city in

India with highest no. of divorce cases.

parent's should educate their girls about relationship and

consequences, a healthy approach should be there in the family, every

human being is born to underake 4 purushaarth and sex has same

importance like dharam has. but sex is an expressoin of love is what

should be told to teens, an intimate action that u just cant do with

any one and every one.

regards,

Lalit.

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Hare ramakrishna

>

> dear renu ji ,

>

> Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may

be

> rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his

experince

> of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved

> here.

>

> See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth

control

> meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may

not

> work in humans.

>

> And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he

become

> ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking

the

> way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav

passed

> tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks

and

> subsequent plundering has contributed to it.

>

> with regrds

>

> sunil nair

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

>

> , " renunw " <renunw@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sunil ji,

> >

> > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake.

I

> > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...

> >

> > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was

> > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a

> > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he

has

> > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other

handicapped

> > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why

> > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy

child'?

> > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as

a

> > result of affliction to child giving houses!!!

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> > , " sunil nair "

> > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare ramakrishna,

> > >

> > > dear renu ji ,

> > >

> > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as

> > female .I

> > > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a

> > > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.

> > >

> > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post

> > >

> > > rgds sunil nair

> > >

> > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > >

> > > , " renunw "

<renunw@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > >

> > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be

> > hopeless

> > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "

> > > >

> > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd

and

> > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a

> > hopeless

> > > > child?

> > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has

> > nothing to

> > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.

> > > >

> > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male

> > dominant

> > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a

> > daughter? Do

> > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a

> > malefic

> > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's

> > > horoscope?

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that

male

> > and

> > > > female hold equal status in this world.

> > > >

> > > > blessings

> > > >

> > > > Renu

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Sign In

Lagna lord in 5th House

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