Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

March 29, 2010

Dear Kulbirji,

Does ibtedah not mean beginning and inteha mean the end? I suppose hesti is

existence and nesti is destruction?

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

-

" Kulbir Bains " <lalkitabkb

Monday, March 29, 2010 9:16 AM

Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> Respected Chandershekar ji,

> //ibtedah and inteha// In lalkitab it is known as hasti se nesti and nesti

> se hasti.

> Respect and Regards

> KB

>

> On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Chandrashekhar <

> sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

>>

>> Dear Rohini Ranjan,

>>

>> One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst men and that of Mlecha is a

>> wicked

>> man, a foreigner, one who does not speak Sanskrit etc. So that too is

>> right.

>>

>> So your contention is also correct. I liked the comment about change of

>> perception between ibtedah and inteha. You must be pretty good at Urdu?

>>

>> Have you heard of a manuscript called Vriddha Parashari?

>>

>> Regards,

>> Chandrashekhar.

>>

>> -

>> rohinicrystal

>> <%40>

>> Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:45 AM

>> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>>

>> Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

>>

>> I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other

>> cultures/foreign cultures'

>>

>> Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

>> with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so

>> on.

>> Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the

>> queries received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

>>

>> As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted

>> on

>> boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh

>> and

>> inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

>> learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan

>> completed the clue for me!

>>

>> Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and

>> was

>> Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this august

>> forum, I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants

>> on

>> this huge Island!

>>

>> Rohiniranjan

>>

>> --- In

>> <%40>,

>> " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>> >

>> > Dear Inderjee,

>> >

>> > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

>> Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and

>> Rahu.

>> >

>> > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

>> with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that

>> might not be the case always.

>> >

>> > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

>> results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full

>> results

>> during its dasha.

>> >

>> > Chandrashekhar.

>> >

>> > -

>> > inder

>> > To:

>> > <%40>

>> > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

>> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>> >

>> > Dear friends,

>> >

>> > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give

>> > my

>> submissions.

>> >

>> > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

>> > remark

>> to chhaya graha RAHU.

>> >

>> > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

>> times real Rahu is internet.

>> >

>> > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

>> > formless

>> and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

>> contact.

>> >

>> > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

>> Rahu.

>> >

>> > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

>> type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

>> sites, sports sites etc.

>> >

>> > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

>> >

>> > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

>> > have

>> distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals

>> with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding

>> infinite outside.

>> >

>> > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

>> committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

>> > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

>> >

>> > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

>> planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in

>> internet

>> whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

>> >

>> > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who

>> > is

>> not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should

>> remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative

>> position of earth, Moon and Sun.

>> >

>> > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

>> > hasty,

>> irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like

>> it

>> expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

>> > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

>> > tolerate

>> difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the

>> people in formless networking.

>> >

>> > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

>> Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen

>> not

>> matter to them]

>> >

>> > Inder

>> > --- In

>> > <%40>,

>> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

>> > >

>> > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

>> > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

>> > > Regards

>> > > Kulbir Bains.

>> > >

>> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

>> > >

>> > > >

>> > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

>> > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

>> of

>> > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

>> > > > prostitutes.

>> > > >

>> > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

>> movement

>> > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

>> > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

>> > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

>> > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

>> > > > village,

>> > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M)

>> > > > in

>> the

>> > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

>> > > > against

>> > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

>> > > > slowly

>> > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

>> > > >

>> > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

>> posting

>> > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

>> > > > ,

>> > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

>> Movements

>> > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

>> > > >

>> > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

>> > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

>> > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

>> also

>> > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

>> > > > my

>> > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back

>> > > > from

>> > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded

>> > > > in

>> > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri,

>> > > > and

>> > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

>> > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

>> > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

>> number

>> > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

>> > > > area.

>> > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

>> > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

>> was

>> > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

>> police

>> > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

>> throwing

>> > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

>> > > > running

>> > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A

>> > > > fat

>> > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking

>> > > > very

>> > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

>> back

>> > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

>> > > > our

>> > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

>> > > > be

>> > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

>> > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

>> stopped,

>> > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

>> > > >

>> > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

>> > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

>> rear

>> > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

>> > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything ,

>> > > > like

>> me

>> > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

>> peeped

>> > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

>> > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as

>> > > > I

>> > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

>> told

>> > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

>> > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

>> to

>> > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

>> > > > way.

>> As

>> > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

>> > > > commanded

>> him

>> > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

>> > > > to

>> > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

>> just

>> > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

>> to

>> > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

>> > > > the

>> > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

>> > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

>> near

>> > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

>> > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

>> > > > vehicle.

>> I

>> > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

>> > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

>> > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

>> > > >

>> > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

>> > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

>> me

>> > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

>> sheet

>> > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me

>> > > > no

>> > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

>> kill

>> > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

>> to

>> > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

>> ever

>> > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

>> > > > sorry

>> > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

>> > > > whether

>> > > > she ever reached her home !

>> > > >

>> > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

>> Mantra,

>> > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

>> > > > memories

>> > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

>> > > >

>> > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

>> description

>> > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

>> direct

>> > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

>> > > > it

>> > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

>> > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

>> needs

>> > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

>> > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

>> > > > any

>> > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

>> lastly,

>> > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

>> > > > to

>> > > > 01-01-1969.

>> > > >

>> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

>> > > >

>> > > > --- In

>> > > > <%40>

>> <%40>,

>>

>> > > > " rohinicrystal "

>> > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

>> > > > >

>> > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

>> > > > > examine

>> in

>> > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

>> > > > >

>> > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The

>> > > > > joker

>> in

>> > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This

>> > > > is

>> why

>> > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

>> and

>> > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

>> sign

>> > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

>> > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

>> qualities

>> > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

>> > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

>> loses

>> > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or

>> > > > bad!

>> So

>> > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

>> lose

>> > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

>> > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

>> > > > in

>> > > > the qualities.

>> > > > >

>> > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

>> > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

>> > > > >

>> > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

>> fact

>> > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

>> THIS

>> > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

>> > > > >

>> > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

>> > > > > prayers

>> > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

>> > > > Dadas!

>> > > > >

>> > > > > Rohiniranjan

>> > > > >

>> > > > > --- In

>> > > > > <%40>

>> <%40>,

>>

>> > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

>> > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

>> very

>> > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

>> > > > > > smiling

>> > > > while

>> > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

>> > > > relaxed. My

>> > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

>> > > > daughter

>> > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

>> > > > smile on

>> > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

>> > > > > > intermangled

>> > > > very

>> > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old

>> > > > > > and

>> the

>> > > > > > current traits.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

>> > > > included),

>> > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

>> knowledge;

>> > > > and

>> > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

>> > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

>> > > > withstanding

>> > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis

>> > > > > > have

>> > > > learned

>> > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If

>> > > > > > this

>> is

>> > > > not

>> > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do

>> > > > > > bit

>> of

>> > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

>> > > > > > how

>> > > > quick

>> > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

>> > > > prepare

>> > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

>> shape

>> > > > and

>> > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

>> > > > satisfaction.

>> > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

>> no

>> > > > doubt

>> > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

>> appears

>> > > > in

>> > > > > > the group.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

>> to

>> > > > say

>> > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

>> In

>> > > > other

>> > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

>> > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

>> > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

>> > > > opportunity

>> > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

>> every

>> > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

>> languages.

>> > > > One

>> > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

>> will

>> > > > use

>> > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was

>> > > > > > also

>> > > > witness

>> > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

>> > > > > > been

>> > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " .

>> > > > > > Why

>> > > > such

>> > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

>> Rahu

>> > > > was

>> > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

>> the

>> > > > name

>> > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

>> > > > feared by

>> > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

>> learner

>> > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

>> > > > problems in

>> > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

>> > > > > > names

>> of

>> > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

>> > > > problems.

>> > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

>> somehow

>> > > > tend

>> > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

>> sense.

>> > > > His

>> > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

>> very

>> > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

>> > > > > > image

>> of

>> > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes

>> > > > > > all

>> the

>> > > > so

>> > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

>> When

>> > > > our

>> > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must

>> > > > > > have

>> all

>> > > > the

>> > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

>> to

>> > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

>> have

>> > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

>> Shishya

>> > > > is

>> > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

>> Shishya,

>> > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

>> silence

>> > > > and

>> > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

>> > > > > > the

>> > > > Guru.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

>> > > > > > perhaps

>> > > > never

>> > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question

>> > > > > > which

>> is

>> > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

>> did

>> > > > not

>> > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

>> > > > called as

>> > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > --- In

>> > > > > >

<%40>

>> <%40>,

>>

>> > > > " rohinicrystal "

>> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > But Praajee...!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

>> ghabraa

>> > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey

>> > > > > > Kaul

>> > > > usday

>> > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

>> hai

>> > > > yeh

>> > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

>> bachchoon-di!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

>> > > > > > > saal

>> to

>> > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

>> > > > > > seekh-layngay,

>> jo

>> > > > raha

>> > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > --- In

>> > > > > > >

<%40>

>> <%40>,

>>

>> > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

>> > > > > > wrote:

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

>> > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

>> > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

>> > > > > > > > MANSOOR

>> na

>> > > > > > bolda taan

>> > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

>> > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

>> wouldn't

>> > > > > > have been

>> > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > Regards

>> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > ------------------------------

>> > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

>> > > > > > > > *To:*

>> > > > > > > >

<%40>

>> <%40>

>> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

>> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

>> > > > > > > > ?

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

>> > > > > > > > by

>> > > > > > competent

>> > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

>> > > > > > > > bring

>> > > > > > salvation to

>> > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

>> > > > > > > > attained

>> > > > > > salvation!

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

>> given

>> > > > in

>> > > > > > the

>> > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

>> Gurus

>> > > > who

>> > > > > > have

>> > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

>> > > > > > suffering so

>> > > > > > > > much? " :-B

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

>> duniya

>> > > > > > walon kay

>> > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

>> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

>> > > > > > > >

March 29, 2010

Dear Vattem Krishnan,

I was responding to Rohini's mail. I have already made clear what is meant by

Chandal and what by MlecCha. I had said " One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst

men and that of Mlecha is a wicked man, a foreigner, one who does not speak

Sanskrit etc. So that too is right. "

Regards,

Chandrashekhar

-

Vattem Krishnan

Monday, March 29, 2010 12:37 PM

Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

Dear Sir,

It is true that persons opeartating from burial grounds are referred with this

term.It's application however to Rahu in litteral terms is not properly

substantiated.mlechas are not chandals.

In our epics more so when we recollect about Raja Satya Harischndra Story,we

find the reference of " Chandal " the one who burns dead bodies and keeps watch at

burial grounds.

Doms are not falling under chandal category.Some where it is also mentioned to

cannibals or narbhakshas as chnadals.

Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling

services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets

are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma

--- On Sun, 3/28/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar

Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

Sunday, March 28, 2010, 3:15 PM

Dear Rohini Ranjan,

I am trying to acquire its manuscript, through one of my friends and hope to

learn some more about Paraashara.

Yes, Chandal is an interesting term. They are generally thought to be those

who operate at funeral sites.

Rahu is enigmatic planet and so has not rest or does not allow others to rest.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

-

rohinicrystal

Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:57 PM

Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

Chandrashekhar jee,

Thanks for taking the time, Sir. I have not had the good fortune of having

seen Vriddha Parashari. I have only studied BPHS, Parashara Samhita and

Laghu/madhya parashari.

My urdu is rather limited, actually.

Chandaal is a very interesting term and at one point were thought of as the

'5th caste'! In MP they were called Dom and in bengal nomoshuddoor.

Poor Rahu! Even on its home-turf (internet according to some) there is no rest

for the wicked :-)

Rohiniranjan

, " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashek har wrote:

>

> Dear Rohini Ranjan,

>

> One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst men and that of Mlecha is a wicked

man, a foreigner, one who does not speak Sanskrit etc. So that too is right.

>

> So your contention is also correct. I liked the comment about change of

perception between ibtedah and inteha. You must be pretty good at Urdu?

>

> Have you heard of a manuscript called Vriddha Parashari?

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> -

> rohinicrystal

>

> Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:45 AM

> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

>

> I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other cultures/foreign

cultures'

>

> Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so on.

Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the queries

received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

>

> As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted on

boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh and

inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan completed

the clue for me!

>

> Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and was

Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this august forum,

I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants on this huge

Island!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inderjee,

> >

> > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

> >

> > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that might

not be the case always.

> >

> > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

during its dasha.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > -

> > inder

> >

> > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting. Let me give my

submissions.

> >

> > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry remark

to chhaya graha RAHU.

> >

> > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

times real Rahu is internet.

> >

> > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and formless

and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in contact.

> >

> > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter + Rahu.

> >

> > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the type

of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno sites, sports

sites etc.

> >

> > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> >

> > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will have

distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals with

concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding infinite

outside.

> >

> > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> >

> > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> >

> > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who is

not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should remove

Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative position of earth,

Moon and Sun.

> >

> > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is hasty,

irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like it

expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to tolerate

difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the people

in formless networking.

> >

> > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

matter to them]

> >

> > Inder

> > , Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@ >

wrote:

> > >

> > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > Regards

> > > Kulbir Bains.

> > >

> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line of

> > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > prostitutes.

> > > >

> > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants movement

> > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native village,

> > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M) in

the

> > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began against

> > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and slowly

> > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > >

> > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

posting

> > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village ,

> > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

Movements

> > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > >

> > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

also

> > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with my

> > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back from

> > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded in

> > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri, and

> > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

number

> > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light area.

> > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there was

> > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

police

> > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

throwing

> > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer running

> > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A fat

> > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking very

> > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

back

> > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment, our

> > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to be

> > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had stopped,

> > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > >

> > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

rear

> > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything , like

me

> > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again peeped

> > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as I

> > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

told

> > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her to

> > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the way.

As

> > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and commanded

him

> > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it to

> > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

just

> > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not to

> > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down, the

> > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it near

> > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the vehicle.

I

> > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > >

> > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place me

> > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge sheet

> > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me no

> > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

kill

> > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide to

> > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

ever

> > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling sorry

> > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder whether

> > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > >

> > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

Mantra,

> > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these memories

> > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > >

> > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

description

> > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

direct

> > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename it

> > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

needs

> > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find any

> > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And lastly,

> > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966 to

> > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > >

> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > >

> > > > <%

40. com>,

> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > <jyotish_vani@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to examine

in

> > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The joker

in

> > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This is

why

> > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona and

> > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose sign

> > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the qualities

> > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

loses

> > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or bad!

So

> > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest- like nature', moon could

lose

> > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > aggression.. . etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction in

> > > > the qualities.

> > > > >

> > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > > > >

> > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

fact

> > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

THIS

> > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My prayers

> > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my Dadas!

> > > > >

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > >

> > > > > <%

40. com>,

> > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really very

> > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and smiling

> > > > while

> > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > > > daughter

> > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > > > smile on

> > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got intermangled

> > > > very

> > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya, Deekshya, traditions; cunturies old and

the

> > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > > > included),

> > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their knowledge;

> > > > and

> > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > > > withstanding

> > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis have

> > > > learned

> > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If this

is

> > > > not

> > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do bit

of

> > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read, how

> > > > quick

> > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > > > prepare

> > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

shape

> > > > and

> > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have no

> > > > doubt

> > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

appears

> > > > in

> > > > > > the group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were to

> > > > say

> > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living. In

> > > > other

> > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > opportunity

> > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

every

> > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

languages.

> > > > One

> > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they will

> > > > use

> > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was also

> > > > witness

> > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have been

> > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " . Why

> > > > such

> > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

Rahu

> > > > was

> > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

the

> > > > name

> > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > > > feared by

> > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

learner

> > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > > > problems in

> > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take names

of

> > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > > > problems.

> > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

somehow

> > > > tend

> > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

sense.

> > > > His

> > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

very

> > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The image

of

> > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes all

the

> > > > so

> > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

When

> > > > our

> > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must have

all

> > > > the

> > > > > > rishis,munis, gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

to

> > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

have

> > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

Shishya

> > > > is

> > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

Shishya,

> > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

silence

> > > > and

> > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing the

> > > > Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who perhaps

> > > > never

> > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question which

is

> > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

did

> > > > not

> > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > > > called as

> > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <%

40. com>,

> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

ghabraa

> > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey Kaul

> > > > usday

> > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib hai

> > > > yeh

> > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/ Parmeshwar/ God day

bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik saal

to

> > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor seekh-layngay,

jo

> > > > raha

> > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali! ! ;-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <%

40. com>,

> > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je MANSOOR

na

> > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

wouldn't

> > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > *To:* <%

40. com>

> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given by

> > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to bring

> > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already attained

> > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

given

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

Gurus

> > > > who

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

duniya

> > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

March 29, 2010

Dear Inderji,

Is Rahu also not said to cause understanding of complex subjects (when in 5th)

and give one Ganga snan(When in 10th)?

Regards,

Chandrashekhar

-

inder

Monday, March 29, 2010 3:11 PM

Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

No dear, we shall not fight. I am again refering to imaginary situation that

if we start fighting here it becomes Guru-Chaandal situation.

Rahu creats sudden, unexpected, good or nasty situations. Rahu is all about

effects.

Inder

, " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Inderji,

>

> I thought we were talking about effects of Guru Chandal yoga. It seems like

I was wrong and you were alluding to Guru Chandal situation.

>

> Anyway why should we start fight on this as we are obviously talking about

two different things?

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> -

> inder

>

> Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:05 PM

> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Dear Chanrashekhar ji,

>

> Think of a hypothetical situation say 200 hundred years ago.

> Two Vidvan Pandit ji are sitting together and nicely exchanging

pleasantries. Now they come out and join a vast gathering of people.

> Very soon they would pick up fight with difference of opinion on some ritual

procedures or some interpretations in presence of mass gathering saving their

egos and creating mass hysteria which would be further spread into village/town

and house discussion.This is sort of Guru Chaandal situation.This is one

example. So they loose their GURUDUM with Rahu effect.

>

> Donot take chaandal in literal terms, most of the people doing menial, small

jobs, even dead body falls under Saturn.May be people carrying petty tales or

rumours fall under Rahu.

>

> If we start fight here for example on this issue, it would certainly be Rahu

effect.

>

> Inder

> , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inderjee,

> >

> > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

> >

> > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that might

not be the case always.

> >

> > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

during its dasha.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > -

> > inder

> >

> > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give my

submissions.

> >

> > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry remark

to chhaya graha RAHU.

> >

> > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

times real Rahu is internet.

> >

> > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and formless

and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in contact.

> >

> > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter + Rahu.

> >

> > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the type

of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno sites, sports

sites etc.

> >

> > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> >

> > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will have

distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals with

concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding infinite

outside.

> >

> > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> >

> > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> >

> > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who is

not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should remove

Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative position of earth,

Moon and Sun.

> >

> > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is hasty,

irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like it

expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to tolerate

difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the people

in formless networking.

> >

> > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

matter to them]

> >

> > Inder

> > , Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > Regards

> > > Kulbir Bains.

> > >

> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line of

> > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > prostitutes.

> > > >

> > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants movement

> > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native village,

> > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M) in

the

> > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began against

> > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and slowly

> > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > >

> > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

posting

> > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village ,

> > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

Movements

> > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > >

> > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

also

> > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with my

> > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back from

> > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded in

> > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri, and

> > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

number

> > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light area.

> > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there was

> > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

police

> > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

throwing

> > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer running

> > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A fat

> > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking very

> > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

back

> > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment, our

> > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to be

> > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had stopped,

> > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > >

> > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

rear

> > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything , like

me

> > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again peeped

> > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as I

> > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

told

> > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her to

> > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the way.

As

> > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and commanded

him

> > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it to

> > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

just

> > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not to

> > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down, the

> > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it near

> > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the vehicle.

I

> > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > >

> > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place me

> > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge sheet

> > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me no

> > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

kill

> > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide to

> > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

ever

> > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling sorry

> > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder whether

> > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > >

> > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

Mantra,

> > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these memories

> > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > >

> > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

description

> > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

direct

> > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename it

> > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

needs

> > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find any

> > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And lastly,

> > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966 to

> > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > >

> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to examine

in

> > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The joker

in

> > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This is

why

> > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona and

> > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose sign

> > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the qualities

> > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

loses

> > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or bad!

So

> > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could lose

> > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction in

> > > > the qualities.

> > > > >

> > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > > > >

> > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

fact

> > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

THIS

> > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My prayers

> > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my Dadas!

> > > > >

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really very

> > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and smiling

> > > > while

> > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > > > daughter

> > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > > > smile on

> > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got intermangled

> > > > very

> > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old and

the

> > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > > > included),

> > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their knowledge;

> > > > and

> > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > > > withstanding

> > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis have

> > > > learned

> > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If this

is

> > > > not

> > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do bit

of

> > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read, how

> > > > quick

> > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > > > prepare

> > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

shape

> > > > and

> > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have no

> > > > doubt

> > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

appears

> > > > in

> > > > > > the group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were to

> > > > say

> > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living. In

> > > > other

> > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > opportunity

> > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

every

> > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

languages.

> > > > One

> > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they will

> > > > use

> > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was also

> > > > witness

> > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have been

> > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " . Why

> > > > such

> > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

Rahu

> > > > was

> > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

the

> > > > name

> > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > > > feared by

> > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

learner

> > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > > > problems in

> > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take names

of

> > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > > > problems.

> > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

somehow

> > > > tend

> > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

sense.

> > > > His

> > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

very

> > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The image

of

> > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes all

the

> > > > so

> > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

When

> > > > our

> > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must have

all

> > > > the

> > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need to

> > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

have

> > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

Shishya

> > > > is

> > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

Shishya,

> > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

silence

> > > > and

> > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing the

> > > > Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who perhaps

> > > > never

> > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question which

is

> > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

did

> > > > not

> > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > > > called as

> > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

ghabraa

> > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey Kaul

> > > > usday

> > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib hai

> > > > yeh

> > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik saal

to

> > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor seekh-layngay,

jo

> > > > raha

> > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je MANSOOR

na

> > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

wouldn't

> > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given by

> > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to bring

> > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already attained

> > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

given

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

Gurus

> > > > who

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

duniya

> > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Hello Arun_jee,

> Rahu is ego and is cause of creation. Aim of any spiritual sadhana is to

reduce ego and realize that once true origins.>

Cause of creation or cause of the perception of creation? :-)

Is that the reason why 'life' and the finest and most autonomous form of

consciousness (namely volitional awarness) exists only on earth in our solar

system?

Viewed from any other PLANET in the solar system, Rahu and Ketu do not exist

even as mathematical points surrounding the physical reality, as they do to

earthbound souls!

Hmm... maybe you have hit the RED BUTTON there! :-)

RR_,

, " arun " <aruninthecity wrote:

>

> Rahu is ego and is cause of creation. Aim of any spiritual sadhana is to

reduce ego and realize that once true origins.

>

> The one who is the cause of creation; can't be look down with such humiliated

way.

>

> Rahu is the cause of illusion, delusions, maya. Strong rahu can create such

powerful illusions around native that people might think that nativity is kingly

and out of the world.

>

> Week rahu will literally convert a king to a pauper. Rahu is the cause of

maya; it is the karaka of arudha lagana.

>

> Some says chandra is the karaka of arudh lagana, who can it be possible?

>

> Guru rahu yoga will give extraordinary knowledge, but all is materialistic,

nothing spiritual, pure, pious in it.

>

> With any of the panch bhutas, rahu amplifies all materialistic aspects.

Therefore he is actually performing the role assigned to him in holy divine

creation.

>

> Without rahu, everyone seek enlightenment and attains mokesha...

>

> Why creation exists, is their reason... scholars says that all those sole who

wants to live freely from krishna are the cause of creation.

>

> Sole goes through process to life and death, pain and torturer and finally

realize that their will to live freely from Krishna is baseless, then these sole

attempts to attains lotus feetâ€™s of the form which they evolve.

>

> Rahu is the gatekeeper, divine guard deciding who belongs where?

>

> Thus, the only question which is we need to answer is that do we fulfill the

task assigned to our sole by almighty.

>

> If we had we are allowed to enter his divine wisdom.

>

> Its ignorance to call the divine protector as â€œChandalâ€.

>

> All are not allowed to enter the divine wisdom. All donâ€™t deserve it. All

are not qualified enough for it.

>

> Only rare are qualified; Even to those rahu give his â€œprolobhanâ€, that

sacred sole your service are much appreciated in materialistic world, kindly

stay here for a while longer and grace these poor sole with your divine

strength.

>

> Out of those few, many falls into these traps and come back to materialistic

world as kings, diplomats, gurus, etc, etc.

>

> Rahu give them everything in so much abundance, they again fall into its traps

of maya and get them eventually turned from king to pauper.

>

> All those who are ruling the world with there power and wealth are those

sacred soles who decided to come back due to the â€œprolobhanâ€ given by Rahu.

>

> Not to blame rahu, he is doing his duty very sincerely. If he allows all

sacred soles to pass through, nothing is left in this materialistic world, who

can bring order to it.

>

> Same way from time to time he bring scarcest demos from the realm of hell to

create destruction and chaos in the materialistic world.

>

> Rahu is the greatest of all jyotishes.

> Rahu is the greatest of all judges.

>

> Rahu is taamas bhola; easiest to please, impossible to attain.

> Rahu is taamas Shiva himself personified.

>

> Shiva is â€œshavâ€, state of the body after its death. Nothing is left but

ego. If one has read something about mahavidyas, then only one understand why

shiva is state of the body after its death.

> â€œvishâ€ is the state of body with its sole in it.

> â€œbrahmaâ€ is the state of the body before its birth.

>

> Initially there is nothing but brahma.

> Brahma divides itself into two parts, this state is known as Vishnu.

> Vishnu divides itself into three parts, this state is known as shiva.

>

> Shiva has all three gunas, sattwa, rajas and tamas.

> Sattwa lies in the mooldhara of shiv in form of brahma in form of Shiv lingum

> Rajas lies in the vishudhi in form of Vishnu in form of sheer sagar, in from

of â€œvishâ€.

> Tamas lies in agyan charka in form of Rahu/ketu, in form of Shiv/shakti, in

form of Maheshwera/ Mahavidyas.

>

> Brahma divides itself into â€œvishâ€ and â€œamritâ€.

>

> â€œvishâ€ in forms of Vishnu resides in the vishudhi charka of lord shiva.

> â€œamritâ€ in form of Brahma resides in all devtas.

>

> Shiva is taams+ brahma and Vishnu.

> Vishnu is division of brahma into vish and amrit, into truth and false, into

positive and negative, into day and nightâ€¦â€¦..

> Brahma is everything, unmanifested, ultimate truth, ultimate reality.

>

> Hare Rama Krishna.

> Arun.

>

> , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

> >

> > I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other cultures/foreign

cultures'

> >

> > Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so on.

Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the queries

received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

> >

> > As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted on

boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh and

inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan completed

the clue for me!

> >

> > Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and was

Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this august forum,

I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants on this huge

Island!

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Inderjee,

> > >

> > > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

> > >

> > > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that might

not be the case always.

> > >

> > > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

during its dasha.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > -

> > > inder

> > >

> > > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> > >

> > > Dear friends,

> > >

> > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give my

submissions.

> > >

> > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry remark

to chhaya graha RAHU.

> > >

> > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

times real Rahu is internet.

> > >

> > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

formless and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

contact.

> > >

> > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

Rahu.

> > >

> > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno sites,

sports sites etc.

> > >

> > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> > >

> > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

have distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals

with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding infinite

outside.

> > >

> > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > >

> > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > >

> > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who is

not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should remove

Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative position of earth,

Moon and Sun.

> > >

> > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

hasty, irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like

it expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to tolerate

difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the people

in formless networking.

> > >

> > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

matter to them]

> > >

> > > Inder

> > > , Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > > Regards

> > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > >

> > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

of

> > > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > > prostitutes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

movement

> > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native village,

> > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M) in

the

> > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

against

> > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

slowly

> > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

posting

> > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

,

> > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

Movements

> > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > > >

> > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

also

> > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

my

> > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back from

> > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded in

> > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri, and

> > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

number

> > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

area.

> > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

was

> > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

police

> > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

throwing

> > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

running

> > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A fat

> > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking very

> > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

back

> > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

our

> > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

be

> > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

stopped,

> > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > > >

> > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

rear

> > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything , like

me

> > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

peeped

> > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as I

> > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

told

> > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

to

> > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

way. As

> > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and commanded

him

> > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

to

> > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

just

> > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

to

> > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

the

> > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

near

> > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

vehicle. I

> > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

me

> > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

sheet

> > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me no

> > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

kill

> > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

to

> > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

ever

> > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

sorry

> > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

whether

> > > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > > >

> > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

Mantra,

> > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

memories

> > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

description

> > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

direct

> > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

it

> > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

needs

> > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

any

> > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

lastly,

> > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

to

> > > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > > >

> > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

examine in

> > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The joker

in

> > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This is

why

> > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

and

> > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

sign

> > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

qualities

> > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

loses

> > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or bad!

So

> > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

lose

> > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

in

> > > > > the qualities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

fact

> > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

THIS

> > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

prayers

> > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my Dadas!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

very

> > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and smiling

> > > > > while

> > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > > > > daughter

> > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > > > > smile on

> > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

intermangled

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old and

the

> > > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > > > > included),

> > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

knowledge;

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > > > > withstanding

> > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis have

> > > > > learned

> > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If this

is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do bit

of

> > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

how

> > > > > quick

> > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > > > > prepare

> > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

shape

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

no

> > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

appears

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the group.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

to

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

In

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > > opportunity

> > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

every

> > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

languages.

> > > > > One

> > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

will

> > > > > use

> > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was also

> > > > > witness

> > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

been

> > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " . Why

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

Rahu

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

the

> > > > > name

> > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > > > > feared by

> > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

learner

> > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > > > > problems in

> > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

names of

> > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > > > > problems.

> > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

somehow

> > > > > tend

> > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

sense.

> > > > > His

> > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

very

> > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

image of

> > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes all

the

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

When

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must have

all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

to

> > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

have

> > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

Shishya

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

Shishya,

> > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

silence

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

the

> > > > > Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who perhaps

> > > > > never

> > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question which

is

> > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > > > > called as

> > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

ghabraa

> > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey Kaul

> > > > > usday

> > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

hai

> > > > > yeh

> > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

saal to

> > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor seekh-layngay,

jo

> > > > > raha

> > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je MANSOOR

na

> > > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

wouldn't

> > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

by

> > > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

bring

> > > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

attained

> > > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

given

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

Gurus

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

duniya

> > > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Krishnan Dada,

Are you saying that people in Madhya Pradesh did not know what they were

speaking about (referring to your statement about Doms!)?

Hmm... looks like a boxing match is coming up between Delhi and Bhopal ;-)

HAHAHA!!

Kind regards,

Rohiniranjan

>

> -

> Vattem Krishnan

>

> Monday, March 29, 2010 12:37 PM

> Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Dear Sir,

> It is true that persons opeartating from burial grounds are referred with

this term.It's application however to Rahu in litteral terms is not properly

substantiated.mlechas are not chandals.

> In our epics more so when we recollect about Raja Satya Harischndra Story,we

find the reference of " Chandal " the one who burns dead bodies and keeps watch at

burial grounds.

> Doms are not falling under chandal category.Some where it is also mentioned

to cannibals or narbhakshas as chnadals.

>

> Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling

services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets

are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma

>

March 30, 2010

Dear Chandrashekhar_jee,

I may not have the profound experience of many of the currently famous and vocal

Jyotish-pragnaas (Internet and otherwise), but I have been consistently

impressed by the enormous spectrum and capability and potential of both Rahu and

Ketu in the lives of human beings -- particularly those who have diverse

experience as opposed to those who are stuck in a groove, as the expression

goes.

The lunar nodes have enormous potential but like a hologram trapped in a crystal

they remain just a piece of decoration unless and until they are ignited by a

beam of laser! Then their message comes alive (I hate to use a movie reference

in this fairly heavy duty serious forum but those still young at heart may

recall the modern EPIC Starwars and Princess Leah's entry and message!)

This has reference to my recent message to, I believe Kulbir, where I referred

to the laser, albeit not directly! Parashara did not write about Laser but BPHS

(I dare say, any version, perhaps) refers to it very clearly and convincingly!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

, " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Inderji,

>

> Is Rahu also not said to cause understanding of complex subjects (when in 5th)

and give one Ganga snan(When in 10th)?

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar

> -

> inder

>

> Monday, March 29, 2010 3:11 PM

> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> No dear, we shall not fight. I am again refering to imaginary situation that

if we start fighting here it becomes Guru-Chaandal situation.

> Rahu creats sudden, unexpected, good or nasty situations. Rahu is all about

effects.

> Inder

>

> , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inderji,

> >

> > I thought we were talking about effects of Guru Chandal yoga. It seems

like I was wrong and you were alluding to Guru Chandal situation.

> >

> > Anyway why should we start fight on this as we are obviously talking about

two different things?

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > -

> > inder

> >

> > Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:05 PM

> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >

> > Dear Chanrashekhar ji,

> >

> > Think of a hypothetical situation say 200 hundred years ago.

> > Two Vidvan Pandit ji are sitting together and nicely exchanging

pleasantries. Now they come out and join a vast gathering of people.

> > Very soon they would pick up fight with difference of opinion on some

ritual procedures or some interpretations in presence of mass gathering saving

their egos and creating mass hysteria which would be further spread into

village/town and house discussion.This is sort of Guru Chaandal situation.This

is one example. So they loose their GURUDUM with Rahu effect.

> >

> > Donot take chaandal in literal terms, most of the people doing menial,

small jobs, even dead body falls under Saturn.May be people carrying petty tales

or rumours fall under Rahu.

> >

> > If we start fight here for example on this issue, it would certainly be

Rahu effect.

> >

> > Inder

> > , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Inderjee,

> > >

> > > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

> > >

> > > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that might

not be the case always.

> > >

> > > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

during its dasha.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > -

> > > inder

> > >

> > > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> > >

> > > Dear friends,

> > >

> > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give my

submissions.

> > >

> > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry remark

to chhaya graha RAHU.

> > >

> > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

times real Rahu is internet.

> > >

> > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

formless and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

contact.

> > >

> > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

Rahu.

> > >

> > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno sites,

sports sites etc.

> > >

> > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> > >

> > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

have distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals

with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding infinite

outside.

> > >

> > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > >

> > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > >

> > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who is

not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should remove

Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative position of earth,

Moon and Sun.

> > >

> > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

hasty, irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like

it expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to tolerate

difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the people

in formless networking.

> > >

> > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

matter to them]

> > >

> > > Inder

> > > , Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > > Regards

> > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > >

> > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

of

> > > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > > prostitutes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

movement

> > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native village,

> > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M) in

the

> > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

against

> > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

slowly

> > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

posting

> > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

,

> > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

Movements

> > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > > >

> > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

also

> > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

my

> > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back from

> > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded in

> > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri, and

> > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

number

> > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

area.

> > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

was

> > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

police

> > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

throwing

> > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

running

> > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A fat

> > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking very

> > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

back

> > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

our

> > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

be

> > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

stopped,

> > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > > >

> > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

rear

> > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything , like

me

> > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

peeped

> > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as I

> > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

told

> > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

to

> > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

way. As

> > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and commanded

him

> > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

to

> > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

just

> > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

to

> > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

the

> > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

near

> > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

vehicle. I

> > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

me

> > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

sheet

> > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me no

> > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

kill

> > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

to

> > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

ever

> > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

sorry

> > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

whether

> > > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > > >

> > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

Mantra,

> > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

memories

> > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

description

> > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

direct

> > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

it

> > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

needs

> > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

any

> > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

lastly,

> > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

to

> > > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > > >

> > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

examine in

> > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The joker

in

> > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This is

why

> > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

and

> > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

sign

> > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

qualities

> > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

loses

> > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or bad!

So

> > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

lose

> > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

in

> > > > > the qualities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

fact

> > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

THIS

> > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

prayers

> > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my Dadas!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

very

> > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and smiling

> > > > > while

> > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > > > > daughter

> > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > > > > smile on

> > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

intermangled

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old and

the

> > > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > > > > included),

> > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

knowledge;

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > > > > withstanding

> > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis have

> > > > > learned

> > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If this

is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do bit

of

> > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

how

> > > > > quick

> > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > > > > prepare

> > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

shape

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

no

> > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

appears

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the group.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

to

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

In

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > > opportunity

> > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

every

> > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

languages.

> > > > > One

> > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

will

> > > > > use

> > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was also

> > > > > witness

> > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

been

> > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " . Why

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

Rahu

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

the

> > > > > name

> > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > > > > feared by

> > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

learner

> > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > > > > problems in

> > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

names of

> > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > > > > problems.

> > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

somehow

> > > > > tend

> > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

sense.

> > > > > His

> > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

very

> > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

image of

> > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes all

the

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

When

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must have

all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

to

> > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

have

> > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

Shishya

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

Shishya,

> > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

silence

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

the

> > > > > Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who perhaps

> > > > > never

> > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question which

is

> > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > > > > called as

> > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

ghabraa

> > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey Kaul

> > > > > usday

> > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

hai

> > > > > yeh

> > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

saal to

> > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor seekh-layngay,

jo

> > > > > raha

> > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je MANSOOR

na

> > > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

wouldn't

> > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

by

> > > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

bring

> > > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

attained

> > > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

given

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

Gurus

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

duniya

> > > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

What a sacrilage, bhaiyaa!

Surely enlightened persons are way above and beyond the " grasp " of grahas? At

least the Chandaals rahu and ketu :-)

What I see at times in modern jyotish is: Chit bhi meri, pat bhi meri, sikka

meray baap kaa!

OY VAY!

Rohiniranjan

, Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

>

> Dear Arun ji; Wah kya baat hai.

> If one observe horoscopes of whom we call enlightened persons and see the

> position of Rahu in it. The message is right there on the wall.

> Regards

> KB

>

> On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:16 PM, arun <aruninthecity wrote:

>

> >

> > Rahu is ego and is cause of creation. Aim of any spiritual sadhana is to

> > reduce ego and realize that once true origins.

> >

> > The one who is the cause of creation; can't be look down with such

> > humiliated way.

> >

> > Rahu is the cause of illusion, delusions, maya. Strong rahu can create such

> > powerful illusions around native that people might think that nativity is

> > kingly and out of the world.

> >

> > Week rahu will literally convert a king to a pauper. Rahu is the cause of

> > maya; it is the karaka of arudha lagana.

> >

> > Some says chandra is the karaka of arudh lagana, who can it be possible?

> >

> > Guru rahu yoga will give extraordinary knowledge, but all is materialistic,

> > nothing spiritual, pure, pious in it.

> >

> > With any of the panch bhutas, rahu amplifies all materialistic aspects.

> > Therefore he is actually performing the role assigned to him in holy divine

> > creation.

> >

> > Without rahu, everyone seek enlightenment and attains mokesha...

> >

> > Why creation exists, is their reason... scholars says that all those sole

> > who wants to live freely from krishna are the cause of creation.

> >

> > Sole goes through process to life and death, pain and torturer and finally

> > realize that their will to live freely from Krishna is baseless, then these

> > sole attempts to attains lotus feetâ€™s of the form which they evolve.

> >

> > Rahu is the gatekeeper, divine guard deciding who belongs where?

> >

> > Thus, the only question which is we need to answer is that do we fulfill

> > the task assigned to our sole by almighty.

> >

> > If we had we are allowed to enter his divine wisdom.

> >

> > Its ignorance to call the divine protector as â€œChandalâ€ .

> >

> > All are not allowed to enter the divine wisdom. All donâ€™t deserve it. All

> > are not qualified enough for it.

> >

> > Only rare are qualified; Even to those rahu give his â€œprolobhanâ€ , that

> > sacred sole your service are much appreciated in materialistic world, kindly

> > stay here for a while longer and grace these poor sole with your divine

> > strength.

> >

> > Out of those few, many falls into these traps and come back to

> > materialistic world as kings, diplomats, gurus, etc, etc.

> >

> > Rahu give them everything in so much abundance, they again fall into its

> > traps of maya and get them eventually turned from king to pauper.

> >

> > All those who are ruling the world with there power and wealth are those

> > sacred soles who decided to come back due to the â€œprolobhanâ€ given by

> > Rahu.

> >

> > Not to blame rahu, he is doing his duty very sincerely. If he allows all

> > sacred soles to pass through, nothing is left in this materialistic world,

> > who can bring order to it.

> >

> > Same way from time to time he bring scarcest demos from the realm of hell

> > to create destruction and chaos in the materialistic world.

> >

> > Rahu is the greatest of all jyotishes.

> > Rahu is the greatest of all judges.

> >

> > Rahu is taamas bhola; easiest to please, impossible to attain.

> > Rahu is taamas Shiva himself personified.

> >

> > Shiva is â€œshavâ€ , state of the body after its death. Nothing is left but

> > ego. If one has read something about mahavidyas, then only one understand

> > why shiva is state of the body after its death.

> > â€œvishâ€ is the state of body with its sole in it.

> > â€œbrahmaâ€ is the state of the body before its birth.

> >

> > Initially there is nothing but brahma.

> > Brahma divides itself into two parts, this state is known as Vishnu.

> > Vishnu divides itself into three parts, this state is known as shiva.

> >

> > Shiva has all three gunas, sattwa, rajas and tamas.

> > Sattwa lies in the mooldhara of shiv in form of brahma in form of Shiv

> > lingum

> > Rajas lies in the vishudhi in form of Vishnu in form of sheer sagar, in

> > from of â€œvishâ€ .

> > Tamas lies in agyan charka in form of Rahu/ketu, in form of Shiv/shakti, in

> > form of Maheshwera/ Mahavidyas.

> >

> > Brahma divides itself into â€œvishâ€ and â€œamritâ€ .

> >

> > â€œvishâ€ in forms of Vishnu resides in the vishudhi charka of lord shiva.

> > â€œamritâ€ in form of Brahma resides in all devtas.

> >

> > Shiva is taams+ brahma and Vishnu.

> > Vishnu is division of brahma into vish and amrit, into truth and false,

> > into positive and negative, into day and nightâ€¦â€¦..

> > Brahma is everything, unmanifested, ultimate truth, ultimate reality.

> >

> > Hare Rama Krishna.

> > Arun.

> >

> > <%40>,

> > " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

> > >

> > > I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other

> > cultures/foreign cultures'

> > >

> > > Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

> > with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so on.

> > Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the

> > queries received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

> > >

> > > As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted

> > on boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh

> > and inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

> > learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan

> > completed the clue for me!

> > >

> > > Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and

> > was Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this

> > august forum, I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the

> > inhabitants on this huge Island!

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > --- In

<%40>,

> > " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Inderjee,

> > > >

> > > > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

> > Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

> > > >

> > > > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

> > with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that

> > might not be the case always.

> > > >

> > > > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

> > results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

> > during its dasha.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > inder

> > > > <%40>

> > > > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > > > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> > > >

> > > > Dear friends,

> > > >

> > > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give

> > my submissions.

> > > >

> > > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

> > remark to chhaya graha RAHU.

> > > >

> > > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

> > times real Rahu is internet.

> > > >

> > > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

> > formless and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it

> > comes in contact.

> > > >

> > > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

> > Rahu.

> > > >

> > > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

> > type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

> > sites, sports sites etc.

> > > >

> > > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> > > >

> > > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

> > have distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious

> > rituals with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding

> > infinite outside.

> > > >

> > > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

> > committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > > >

> > > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

> > planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

> > whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > > >

> > > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who

> > is not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should

> > remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative

> > position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> > > >

> > > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

> > hasty, irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as

> > like it expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

> > tolerate difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people]

> > all the people in formless networking.

> > > >

> > > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

> > Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

> > matter to them]

> > > >

> > > > Inder

> > > > --- In

<%40>,

> > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > >

> > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

> > of

> > > > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > > > prostitutes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

> > movement

> > > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

> > village,

> > > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M)

> > in the

> > > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

> > against

> > > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

> > slowly

> > > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

> > posting

> > > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

> > ,

> > > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

> > Movements

> > > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

> > also

> > > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

> > my

> > > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back

> > from

> > > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded

> > in

> > > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri,

> > and

> > > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

> > number

> > > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

> > area.

> > > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

> > was

> > > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

> > police

> > > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

> > throwing

> > > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

> > running

> > > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A

> > fat

> > > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking

> > very

> > > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

> > back

> > > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

> > our

> > > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

> > be

> > > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

> > stopped,

> > > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

> > rear

> > > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything ,

> > like me

> > > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

> > peeped

> > > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as

> > I

> > > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

> > told

> > > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

> > to

> > > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

> > way. As

> > > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

> > commanded him

> > > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

> > to

> > > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

> > just

> > > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

> > to

> > > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

> > the

> > > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

> > near

> > > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

> > vehicle. I

> > > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

> > me

> > > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

> > sheet

> > > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me

> > no

> > > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

> > kill

> > > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

> > to

> > > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

> > ever

> > > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

> > sorry

> > > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

> > whether

> > > > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

> > Mantra,

> > > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

> > memories

> > > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

> > description

> > > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

> > direct

> > > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

> > it

> > > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

> > needs

> > > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

> > any

> > > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

> > lastly,

> > > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

> > to

> > > > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

> > examine in

> > > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The

> > joker in

> > > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This

> > is why

> > > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

> > and

> > > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

> > sign

> > > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

> > qualities

> > > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

> > loses

> > > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or

> > bad! So

> > > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

> > lose

> > > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

> > in

> > > > > > the qualities.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

> > fact

> > > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

> > THIS

> > > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

> > prayers

> > > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

> > Dadas!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

> > very

> > > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

> > smiling

> > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > > > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > > > > > daughter

> > > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > > > > > smile on

> > > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

> > intermangled

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old

> > and the

> > > > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > > > > > included),

> > > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

> > knowledge;

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > > > > > withstanding

> > > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis

> > have

> > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If

> > this is

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do

> > bit of

> > > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

> > how

> > > > > > quick

> > > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > > > > > prepare

> > > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

> > shape

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

> > no

> > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

> > appears

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

> > to

> > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

> > In

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > > > opportunity

> > > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

> > every

> > > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

> > languages.

> > > > > > One

> > > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

> > will

> > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was

> > also

> > > > > > witness

> > > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

> > been

> > > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " .

> > Why

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

> > Rahu

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

> > the

> > > > > > name

> > > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > > > > > feared by

> > > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

> > learner

> > > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > > > > > problems in

> > > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

> > names of

> > > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > > > > > problems.

> > > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

> > somehow

> > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

> > sense.

> > > > > > His

> > > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

> > very

> > > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

> > image of

> > > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes

> > all the

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

> > When

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must

> > have all

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

> > to

> > > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

> > have

> > > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

> > Shishya

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

> > Shishya,

> > > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

> > silence

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

> > the

> > > > > > Guru.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

> > perhaps

> > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question

> > which is

> > > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

> > did

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > > > > > called as

> > > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

> > ghabraa

> > > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey

> > Kaul

> > > > > > usday

> > > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

> > hai

> > > > > > yeh

> > > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

> > bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

> > saal to

> > > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

> > seekh-layngay, jo

> > > > > > raha

> > > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

> > MANSOOR na

> > > > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

> > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

> > ?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

> > by

> > > > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

> > bring

> > > > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

> > attained

> > > > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

> > given

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

> > Gurus

> > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > > > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

> > duniya

> > > > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Jupiter is the judge, mercury is the scribe that types in the transcript, mars

is the executioner, Saturn transports the deadbody from the gallows to the place

of funeral, nodes dispose of the remains of the punished.

Venus is the wife/sister, sun the father, moon the mother who continue to wonder

where they went wrong in their love and caring that led their loved one and ward

to the gallows!

Who is the loved one? The nativity!!

And the empty kundali that remains when they all go home?

Awaits for God to send another soul to fill it, so that Creation may continue

and Hope may never die!

The end of the beginning!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

, Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

>

> Dear Inder Ji; we shall come to Mercury later but kindly reconsider Who is

> the karak of judge(justice) - SATURN or JUPITER.

> Regards

> KB

>

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:07 PM, inder <indervohra2001 wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Kulbir,

> > Mercury is very peculiar. It is so coward he will runaway seeing a Martian

> > [Mangal]danada or even be afraid seeing a policeman.But he is so cunning to

> > influence/cheat Jupiter.But say in High court or Supreme Court it becomes

> > impossible for Mercurian lawyer to cheat Jupiter[Judge]. But the same judge

> > when meeting with Mercurian Lawyer in a party, meetings or internet[Rahu

> > situation] he could easily influence Jupiter with his glib tounge. Similary

> > TV journlist [Mercury] with mass hysteria influence judges.Such inflence

> > fail in Courts[pure jupiter circumstance]

> > You are right Mercury= Jupiter +Rahu.

> > Inder

> > <%40>,

> > " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Kulbir,

> > > This is the finest one from Lal Kitab ! Mercury=Jupiter + Rahu. Akela do

> > par bhaari. I am just humming " Woh Chaand Khilaa Woh Taare Hanse, Yeh Raat

> > Ajab Maatwari Hai, Samajhane Waale Samaajh Gayein Hain, Jo Naa Samajhe, Jo

> > Naa Samjhe Woh Anaari Hain " . With best wishes.

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > --- In

<%40>,

> > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Inder;

> > > > According to lalkitab Mercury = Jupiter + Rahu;

> > > > malefic or benefic is one's own hands and of-course depth! is a

> > deciding

> > > > factor.

> > > > KB

> > > >

> > > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:51 PM, inder <indervohra2001@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kulbir,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes it is difficult to find Karaka involving single planet.

> > > > > Communication is Mercury but internet is not communication, it is

> > > > > vast,infinite and formless network of connection, you communicate or

> > no, it

> > > > > doesnot matter.It is Rahu.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you see the classic texts and take the things in broader way, you

> > may

> > > > > find that most of the traits of Rahu would match with

> > internet,starting from

> > > > > grand or greatgrandfather having huge family with vast population and

> > old

> > > > > fellow has hazy control over things.

> > > > >

> > > > > Most important trait of Rahu- limitless, timeless,infinite, formless,

> > > > > forign influences would fall in internet.

> > > > >

> > > > > As repored deficincy of concetration in shcool children or even

> > adults is

> > > > > major bad effect of internet or TV. It can not fall under inflicted

> > Mercury

> > > > > or bad placed Mercury. It is only Rahu effect.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go slightly deep, you would be able to draw many conclusions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Inder

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Inder ji

> > > > > > //Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> > mordern

> > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.//

> > > > > > Kindly reconsider it.

> > > > > > involve COMMUNICATION - then give your reconsidered opinion.

> > > > > > Sir, It is very very difficult to find karakas involving only a

> > single

> > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > However if you want to stick to Rahu theory only then for arguments

> > sake

> > > > > you

> > > > > > can study how and where from internet started. PATAL-LOK.

> > underwater--

> > > > > > motorola something! happy journey.

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:12 PM, inder <indervohra2001@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear friends,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me

> > give

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > submissions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

> > > > > remark to

> > > > > > > chhaya graha RAHU.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> > mordern

> > > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

> > > > > formless

> > > > > > > and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it

> > comes in

> > > > > > > contact.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury +

> > Jupiter +

> > > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with

> > the

> > > > > type

> > > > > > > of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

> > > > > sites,

> > > > > > > sports sites etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and

> > infinite.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you

> > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious

> > > > > rituals

> > > > > > > with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when

> > expanding

> > > > > > > infinite outside.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas,

> > processions,

> > > > > > > committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > > > > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana

> > [lahiri] of

> > > > > > > planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed

> > in

> > > > > internet

> > > > > > > whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi

> > who

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we

> > should

> > > > > > > remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of

> > relative

> > > > > > > position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it

> > is

> > > > > hasty,

> > > > > > > irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also

> > as

> > > > > like it

> > > > > > > expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > > > > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

> > > > > tolerate

> > > > > > > difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people]

> > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > people in formless networking.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is

> > really a

> > > > > > > Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal

> > doen

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > matter to them]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Inder

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > > > > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your

> > anecdote "

> > > > > > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the

> > first line

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Kulbeer on the subject – Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > > > > > > prostitutes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

> > > > > movement

> > > > > > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > > > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > > > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group),

> > committed

> > > > > > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

> > > > > village,

> > > > > > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present

> > CPI(M)

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

> > > > > against

> > > > > > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967,

> > and

> > > > > slowly

> > > > > > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my

> > first

> > > > > posting

> > > > > > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari

> > village

> > > > > ,

> > > > > > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

> > > > > Movements

> > > > > > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > > > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In

> > the

> > > > > > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan

> > Jonga. He

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of

> > vehicle,with

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked

> > back

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I

> > nodded

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the

> > Siliguri,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The

> > vehicle

> > > > > > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be

> > back

> > > > > > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head

> > out a

> > > > > number

> > > > > > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red

> > Light

> > > > > area.

> > > > > > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > > > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo,

> > there

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of

> > civil

> > > > > police

> > > > > > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ;

> > and

> > > > > throwing

> > > > > > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

> > > > > running

> > > > > > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants

> > tightly. A

> > > > > fat

> > > > > > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement,

> > looking

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing

> > towards

> > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same

> > moment,

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found

> > it to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of

> > the

> > > > > > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

> > > > > stopped,

> > > > > > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking

> > at her

> > > > > > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the

> > small

> > > > > rear

> > > > > > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > > > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything

> > ,

> > > > > like me

> > > > > > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O.

> > again

> > > > > peeped

> > > > > > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack.

> > I kept

> > > > > > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as

> > far as

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about

> > herself. She

> > > > > > > told

> > > > > > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought

> > her to

> > > > > > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can

> > help her

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on

> > the

> > > > > way.

> > > > > > > As

> > > > > > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

> > > > > commanded

> > > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and

> > gave it

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she

> > should

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one

> > and not

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing

> > down,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with

> > us. I

> > > > > > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly

> > brought it

> > > > > near

> > > > > > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ….and he closed the

> > rear

> > > > > > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

> > > > > vehicle. I

> > > > > > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of

> > karuna and

> > > > > > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I

> > felt so

> > > > > > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a

> > senior is

> > > > > > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can

> > place

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy

> > charge

> > > > > sheet

> > > > > > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul

> > told me

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens,

> > I will

> > > > > > > kill

> > > > > > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed

> > guide

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But

> > nothing

> > > > > > > ever

> > > > > > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on

> > feeling

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha,

> > Beej

> > > > > > > Mantra,

> > > > > > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

> > > > > memories

> > > > > > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

> > > > > description

> > > > > > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but

> > it's

> > > > > direct

> > > > > > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may

> > rename

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand

> > names like

> > > > > > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in

> > dire

> > > > > needs

> > > > > > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police

> > raid, I

> > > > > > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not

> > find

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA.

> > And

> > > > > lastly,

> > > > > > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from

> > 19-09-1966

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

> > > > > examine

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards'

> > (The

> > > > > joker in

> > > > > > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc).

> > This

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the

> > persona

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in

> > whose

> > > > > sign

> > > > > > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is

> > moving

> > > > > > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

> > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga

> > or

> > > > > > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so

> > affected

> > > > > loses

> > > > > > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good

> > or

> > > > > bad! So

> > > > > > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon

> > could

> > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > > > > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a

> > reduction

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the qualities.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the

> > individual

> > > > > > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific

> > chart!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own

> > risk! In

> > > > > > > fact

> > > > > > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE

> > DON'T TRY

> > > > > THIS

> > > > > > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE

> > BY! :-)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

> > > > > prayers

> > > > > > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

> > > > > Dadas!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > > > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been

> > really

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

> > > > > smiling

> > > > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming.

> > Completely

> > > > > > > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my

> > younger

> > > > > > > > > daughter

> > > > > > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me

> > relaxed with

> > > > > > > > > smile on

> > > > > > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

> > > > > intermangled

> > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies

> > old

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis

> > also

> > > > > > > > > included),

> > > > > > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

> > > > > knowledge;

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still

> > go on

> > > > > > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts,

> > not

> > > > > > > > > withstanding

> > > > > > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such

> > jyotishis

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul.

> > If

> > > > > this is

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to

> > do

> > > > > bit of

> > > > > > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to

> > read,

> > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > quick

> > > > > > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds,

> > how we

> > > > > > > > > prepare

> > > > > > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give

> > them a

> > > > > > > shape

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > > > > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I

> > also have

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from

> > what

> > > > > > > appears

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the group.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if

> > I were

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are

> > living.

> > > > > In

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if

> > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by

> > any

> > > > > > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > > > > > > opportunity

> > > > > > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily

> > available and

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

> > > > > languages.

> > > > > > > > > One

> > > > > > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How

> > they

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis)

> > was

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > witness

> > > > > > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I

> > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal

> > Yoga " .

> > > > > Why

> > > > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically

> > Jupiter, but

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been

> > given

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > name

> > > > > > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this

> > Yoga is

> > > > > > > > > feared by

> > > > > > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc.

> > When a

> > > > > > > learner

> > > > > > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause

> > of

> > > > > > > > > problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just

> > take

> > > > > names

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all

> > the

> > > > > > > > > problems.

> > > > > > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga

> > and

> > > > > somehow

> > > > > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the

> > real

> > > > > sense.

> > > > > > > > > His

> > > > > > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is

> > very

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard.

> > The

> > > > > image

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and

> > breakes

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called

> > maryada.

> > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really

> > must

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is

> > no need

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga

> > seems to

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where

> > a

> > > > > Shishya

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses

> > the

> > > > > > > Shishya,

> > > > > > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break

> > his

> > > > > > > silence

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast

> > exposing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Guru.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big

> > question

> > > > > which is

> > > > > > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of

> > Jyotish

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be

> > termed or

> > > > > > > > > called as

> > > > > > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna

> > kol...!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek

> > do

> > > > > > > ghabraa

> > > > > > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US

> > dey

> > > > > Kaul

> > > > > > > > > usday

> > > > > > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni -

> > Azib

> > > > > hai

> > > > > > > > > yeh

> > > > > > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

> > > > > bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar

> > ik

> > > > > saal

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

> > > > > seekh-layngay, jo

> > > > > > > > > raha

> > > > > > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

> > > > > MANSOOR na

> > > > > > > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better,

> > Mansoor

> > > > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra

> > sadhana's

> > > > > ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is

> > given

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru

> > to

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

> > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are

> > being

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide

> > ;-)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many

> > millions of

> > > > > > > Gurus

> > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and

> > humanity

> > > > > > > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach

> > hai

> > > > > duniya

> > > > > > > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Typo [corrected]!

, " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani

wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar jee,

>

> Call me romantic, but I have this insurmountable belief in the permanence of

soul and the cycles of birth and rebirth and the evolution of sorts thereby!

>

> So for me, each death is the harbinger of a [birth] and vice versa. From that

perspective, it seems circular (not circular logic, mind you!) and as my math

teacher used to say: Any point on a circle represents the beginning of the

circle.

>

> And then someone said in a more poetic manner (my math teacher was an ogre,

May he rest in peace forever!): Jahan jaagay tum, wahin huaa samjho Savera...!

>

> Regards,

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kulbirji,

> >

> > Does ibtedah not mean beginning and inteha mean the end? I suppose hesti is

> > existence and nesti is destruction?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> > -

> > " Kulbir Bains " <lalkitabkb@>

> >

> > Monday, March 29, 2010 9:16 AM

> > Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >

> > > Respected Chandershekar ji,

> > > //ibtedah and inteha// In lalkitab it is known as hasti se nesti and nesti

> > > se hasti.

> > > Respect and Regards

> > > KB

> > >

> > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Chandrashekhar <

> > > sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Dear Rohini Ranjan,

> > >>

> > >> One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst men and that of Mlecha is a

> > >> wicked

> > >> man, a foreigner, one who does not speak Sanskrit etc. So that too is

> > >> right.

> > >>

> > >> So your contention is also correct. I liked the comment about change of

> > >> perception between ibtedah and inteha. You must be pretty good at Urdu?

> > >>

> > >> Have you heard of a manuscript called Vriddha Parashari?

> > >>

> > >> Regards,

> > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > >>

> > >> -

> > >> rohinicrystal

> > >> <%40>

> > >> Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:45 AM

> > >> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> > >>

> > >> Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

> > >>

> > >> I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other

> > >> cultures/foreign cultures'

> > >>

> > >> Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

> > >> with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so

> > >> on.

> > >> Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the

> > >> queries received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

> > >>

> > >> As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted

> > >> on

> > >> boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh

> > >> and

> > >> inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

> > >> learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan

> > >> completed the clue for me!

> > >>

> > >> Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and

> > >> was

> > >> Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this august

> > >> forum, I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants

> > >> on

> > >> this huge Island!

> > >>

> > >> Rohiniranjan

> > >>

> > >> --- In

> > >> <%40>,

> > >> " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Inderjee,

> > >> >

> > >> > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

> > >> Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and

> > >> Rahu.

> > >> >

> > >> > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

> > >> with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that

> > >> might not be the case always.

> > >> >

> > >> > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

> > >> results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full

> > >> results

> > >> during its dasha.

> > >> >

> > >> > Chandrashekhar.

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > inder

> > >> > To:

> > >> > <%40>

> > >> > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> > >> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear friends,

> > >> >

> > >> > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give

> > >> > my

> > >> submissions.

> > >> >

> > >> > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

> > >> > remark

> > >> to chhaya graha RAHU.

> > >> >

> > >> > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

> > >> times real Rahu is internet.

> > >> >

> > >> > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

> > >> > formless

> > >> and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

> > >> contact.

> > >> >

> > >> > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

> > >> Rahu.

> > >> >

> > >> > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

> > >> type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

> > >> sites, sports sites etc.

> > >> >

> > >> > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> > >> >

> > >> > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

> > >> > have

> > >> distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals

> > >> with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding

> > >> infinite outside.

> > >> >

> > >> > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

> > >> committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > >> > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > >> >

> > >> > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

> > >> planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in

> > >> internet

> > >> whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > >> >

> > >> > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who

> > >> > is

> > >> not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should

> > >> remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative

> > >> position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> > >> >

> > >> > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

> > >> > hasty,

> > >> irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like

> > >> it

> > >> expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > >> > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

> > >> > tolerate

> > >> difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the

> > >> people in formless networking.

> > >> >

> > >> > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

> > >> Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen

> > >> not

> > >> matter to them]

> > >> >

> > >> > Inder

> > >> > --- In

> > >> > <%40>,

> > >> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > >> > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > >> > > Regards

> > >> > > Kulbir Bains.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > >> > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> > >> > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

> > >> of

> > >> > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > >> > > > prostitutes.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

> > >> movement

> > >> > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > >> > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > >> > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> > >> > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

> > >> > > > village,

> > >> > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M)

> > >> > > > in

> > >> the

> > >> > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

> > >> > > > against

> > >> > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

> > >> > > > slowly

> > >> > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

> > >> posting

> > >> > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

> > >> > > > ,

> > >> > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

> > >> Movements

> > >> > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > >> > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> > >> > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

> > >> also

> > >> > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

> > >> > > > my

> > >> > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back

> > >> > > > from

> > >> > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded

> > >> > > > in

> > >> > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri,

> > >> > > > and

> > >> > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> > >> > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> > >> > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

> > >> number

> > >> > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

> > >> > > > area.

> > >> > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > >> > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

> > >> was

> > >> > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

> > >> police

> > >> > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

> > >> throwing

> > >> > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

> > >> > > > running

> > >> > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A

> > >> > > > fat

> > >> > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking

> > >> > > > very

> > >> > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

> > >> back

> > >> > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

> > >> > > > our

> > >> > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

> > >> > > > be

> > >> > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> > >> > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

> > >> stopped,

> > >> > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

> > >> > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

> > >> rear

> > >> > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > >> > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything ,

> > >> > > > like

> > >> me

> > >> > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

> > >> peeped

> > >> > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

> > >> > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as

> > >> > > > I

> > >> > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

> > >> told

> > >> > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

> > >> > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

> > >> to

> > >> > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

> > >> > > > way.

> > >> As

> > >> > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

> > >> > > > commanded

> > >> him

> > >> > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

> > >> > > > to

> > >> > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

> > >> just

> > >> > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

> > >> to

> > >> > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

> > >> > > > the

> > >> > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> > >> > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

> > >> near

> > >> > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> > >> > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

> > >> > > > vehicle.

> > >> I

> > >> > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> > >> > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> > >> > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> > >> > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

> > >> me

> > >> > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

> > >> sheet

> > >> > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me

> > >> > > > no

> > >> > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

> > >> kill

> > >> > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

> > >> to

> > >> > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

> > >> ever

> > >> > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

> > >> > > > sorry

> > >> > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

> > >> > > > whether

> > >> > > > she ever reached her home !

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

> > >> Mantra,

> > >> > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

> > >> > > > memories

> > >> > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

> > >> description

> > >> > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

> > >> direct

> > >> > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

> > >> > > > it

> > >> > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

> > >> > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

> > >> needs

> > >> > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> > >> > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

> > >> > > > any

> > >> > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

> > >> lastly,

> > >> > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

> > >> > > > to

> > >> > > > 01-01-1969.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > --- In

> > >> > > >

<%40>

> > >> <%40>,

> > >>

> > >> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > >> > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

> > >> > > > > examine

> > >> in

> > >> > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The

> > >> > > > > joker

> > >> in

> > >> > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This

> > >> > > > is

> > >> why

> > >> > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

> > >> and

> > >> > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

> > >> sign

> > >> > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> > >> > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

> > >> qualities

> > >> > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> > >> > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

> > >> loses

> > >> > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or

> > >> > > > bad!

> > >> So

> > >> > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

> > >> lose

> > >> > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > >> > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

> > >> > > > in

> > >> > > > the qualities.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> > >> > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

> > >> fact

> > >> > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

> > >> THIS

> > >> > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

> > >> > > > > prayers

> > >> > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

> > >> > > > Dadas!

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- In

> > >> > > > >

<%40>

> > >> <%40>,

> > >>

> > >> > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > >> > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

> > >> very

> > >> > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

> > >> > > > > > smiling

> > >> > > > while

> > >> > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> > >> > > > relaxed. My

> > >> > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> > >> > > > daughter

> > >> > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

> > >> > > > smile on

> > >> > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

> > >> > > > > > intermangled

> > >> > > > very

> > >> > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old

> > >> > > > > > and

> > >> the

> > >> > > > > > current traits.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> > >> > > > included),

> > >> > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

> > >> knowledge;

> > >> > > > and

> > >> > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

> > >> > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> > >> > > > withstanding

> > >> > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis

> > >> > > > > > have

> > >> > > > learned

> > >> > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If

> > >> > > > > > this

> > >> is

> > >> > > > not

> > >> > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do

> > >> > > > > > bit

> > >> of

> > >> > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

> > >> > > > > > how

> > >> > > > quick

> > >> > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> > >> > > > prepare

> > >> > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

> > >> shape

> > >> > > > and

> > >> > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > >> > > > satisfaction.

> > >> > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

> > >> no

> > >> > > > doubt

> > >> > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

> > >> appears

> > >> > > > in

> > >> > > > > > the group.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

> > >> to

> > >> > > > say

> > >> > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

> > >> In

> > >> > > > other

> > >> > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

> > >> > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> > >> > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > >> > > > opportunity

> > >> > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

> > >> every

> > >> > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

> > >> languages.

> > >> > > > One

> > >> > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

> > >> will

> > >> > > > use

> > >> > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was

> > >> > > > > > also

> > >> > > > witness

> > >> > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

> > >> > > > > > been

> > >> > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " .

> > >> > > > > > Why

> > >> > > > such

> > >> > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

> > >> Rahu

> > >> > > > was

> > >> > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

> > >> the

> > >> > > > name

> > >> > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> > >> > > > feared by

> > >> > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

> > >> learner

> > >> > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> > >> > > > problems in

> > >> > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

> > >> > > > > > names

> > >> of

> > >> > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> > >> > > > problems.

> > >> > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

> > >> somehow

> > >> > > > tend

> > >> > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

> > >> sense.

> > >> > > > His

> > >> > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

> > >> very

> > >> > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

> > >> > > > > > image

> > >> of

> > >> > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes

> > >> > > > > > all

> > >> the

> > >> > > > so

> > >> > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

> > >> When

> > >> > > > our

> > >> > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must

> > >> > > > > > have

> > >> all

> > >> > > > the

> > >> > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

> > >> to

> > >> > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

> > >> have

> > >> > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

> > >> Shishya

> > >> > > > is

> > >> > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

> > >> Shishya,

> > >> > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

> > >> silence

> > >> > > > and

> > >> > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

> > >> > > > > > the

> > >> > > > Guru.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

> > >> > > > > > perhaps

> > >> > > > never

> > >> > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question

> > >> > > > > > which

> > >> is

> > >> > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

> > >> did

> > >> > > > not

> > >> > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> > >> > > > called as

> > >> > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > --- In

> > >> > > > > >

<%40>

> > >> <%40>,

> > >>

> > >> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > >> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

> > >> ghabraa

> > >> > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey

> > >> > > > > > Kaul

> > >> > > > usday

> > >> > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

> > >> hai

> > >> > > > yeh

> > >> > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

> > >> bachchoon-di!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

> > >> > > > > > > saal

> > >> to

> > >> > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

> > >> > > > > > seekh-layngay,

> > >> jo

> > >> > > > raha

> > >> > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > --- In

> > >> > > > > > >

<%40>

> > >> <%40>,

> > >>

> > >> > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > >> > > > > > wrote:

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > >> > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > >> > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

> > >> > > > > > > > MANSOOR

> > >> na

> > >> > > > > > bolda taan

> > >> > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > >> > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

> > >> wouldn't

> > >> > > > > > have been

> > >> > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > Regards

> > >> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > >> > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > >> > > > > > > > *To:*

> > >> > > > > > > >

<%40>

> > >> <%40>

> > >> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > >> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

> > >> > > > > > > > ?

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

> > >> > > > > > > > by

> > >> > > > > > competent

> > >> > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

> > >> > > > > > > > bring

> > >> > > > > > salvation to

> > >> > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

> > >> > > > > > > > attained

> > >> > > > > > salvation!

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

> > >> given

> > >> > > > in

> > >> > > > > > the

> > >> > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

> > >> Gurus

> > >> > > > who

> > >> > > > > > have

> > >> > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

> > >> > > > > > suffering so

> > >> > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

> > >> duniya

> > >> > > > > > walon kay

> > >> > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > >> > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Repected Chandrashekhar Ji, You are absolutely right just a little

elaboration; HASTI means SELF-concerned existence because existence is only

as far as SELF is there.

Regards

Kulbir Bains.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Chandrashekhar <

sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Kulbirji,

>

> Does ibtedah not mean beginning and inteha mean the end? I suppose hesti is

>

> existence and nesti is destruction?

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> -

> " Kulbir Bains " <lalkitabkb <lalkitabkb%40gmail.com>>

> < <%40>

> >

> Monday, March 29, 2010 9:16 AM

> Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> > Respected Chandershekar ji,

> > //ibtedah and inteha// In lalkitab it is known as hasti se nesti and

> nesti

> > se hasti.

> > Respect and Regards

> > KB

> >

> > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Chandrashekhar <

> > sharma.chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> Dear Rohini Ranjan,

> >>

> >> One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst men and that of Mlecha is a

> >> wicked

> >> man, a foreigner, one who does not speak Sanskrit etc. So that too is

> >> right.

> >>

> >> So your contention is also correct. I liked the comment about change of

> >> perception between ibtedah and inteha. You must be pretty good at Urdu?

> >>

> >> Have you heard of a manuscript called Vriddha Parashari?

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Chandrashekhar.

> >>

> >> -

> >> rohinicrystal

> >> To:

<%40><Jyotish_Rem\

edies%

> 40>

> >> Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:45 AM

> >> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >>

> >> Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

> >>

> >> I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other

> >> cultures/foreign cultures'

> >>

> >> Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

> >> with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so

>

> >> on.

> >> Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the

> >> queries received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish

> HOT-LINE! "

> >>

> >> As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted

>

> >> on

> >> boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh

> >> and

> >> inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

> >> learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan

> >> completed the clue for me!

> >>

> >> Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and

> >> was

> >> Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this

> august

> >> forum, I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants

> >> on

> >> this huge Island!

> >>

> >> Rohiniranjan

> >>

> >> --- In

> >> <%40>

> <%40>,

>

> >> " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Inderjee,

> >> >

> >> > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

> >> Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and

> >> Rahu.

> >> >

> >> > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

> >> with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that

> >> might not be the case always.

> >> >

> >> > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

> >> results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full

> >> results

> >> during its dasha.

> >> >

> >> > Chandrashekhar.

> >> >

> >> > -

> >> > inder

> >> > To:

> >> > <%40>

> <%40>

> >> > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

> >> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

> >> >

> >> > Dear friends,

> >> >

> >> > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me give

> >> > my

> >> submissions.

> >> >

> >> > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

> >> > remark

> >> to chhaya graha RAHU.

> >> >

> >> > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> mordern

> >> times real Rahu is internet.

> >> >

> >> > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

> >> > formless

> >> and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

> >> contact.

> >> >

> >> > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

> >> Rahu.

> >> >

> >> > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

> >> type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

> >> sites, sports sites etc.

> >> >

> >> > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

> >> >

> >> > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

> >> > have

> >> distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious

> rituals

> >> with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding

> >> infinite outside.

> >> >

> >> > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas,

> processions,

> >> committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> >> > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> >> >

> >> > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

> >> planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in

> >> internet

> >> whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> >> >

> >> > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who

> >> > is

> >> not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should

> >> remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative

> >> position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> >> >

> >> > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

> >> > hasty,

> >> irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as

> like

> >> it

> >> expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> >> > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

> >> > tolerate

> >> difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the

> >> people in formless networking.

> >> >

> >> > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

> >> Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen

> >> not

> >> matter to them]

> >> >

> >> > Inder

> >> > --- In

> >> > <%40>

> <%40>,

> >> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> >> > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> >> > > Regards

> >> > > Kulbir Bains.

> >> > >

> >> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

> >> > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first

> line

> >> of

> >> > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

> >> > > > prostitutes.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

> >> movement

> >> > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> >> > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> >> > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

> >> > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

> >> > > > village,

> >> > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M)

> >> > > > in

> >> the

> >> > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

> >> > > > against

> >> > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

> >> > > > slowly

> >> > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

> >> posting

> >> > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari

> village

> >> > > > ,

> >> > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

> >> Movements

> >> > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> >> > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

> >> > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga.

> He

> >> also

> >> > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

>

> >> > > > my

> >> > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back

> >> > > > from

> >> > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded

> >> > > > in

> >> > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri,

> >> > > > and

> >> > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

> >> > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

> >> > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

> >> number

> >> > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

> >> > > > area.

> >> > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> >> > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

> >> was

> >> > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

> >> police

> >> > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

> >> throwing

> >> > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

> >> > > > running

> >> > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A

> >> > > > fat

> >> > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking

> >> > > > very

> >> > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing

> towards

> >> back

> >> > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

> >> > > > our

> >> > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

>

> >> > > > be

> >> > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

> >> > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

> >> stopped,

> >> > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at

> her

> >> > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

> >> rear

> >> > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> >> > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything ,

> >> > > > like

> >> me

> >> > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

> >> peeped

> >> > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I

> kept

> >> > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as

>

> >> > > > I

> >> > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself.

> She

> >> told

> >> > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her

> to

> >> > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help

> her

> >> to

> >> > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

> >> > > > way.

> >> As

> >> > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

> >> > > > commanded

> >> him

> >> > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

>

> >> > > > to

> >> > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

> >> just

> >> > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and

> not

> >> to

> >> > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

> >> > > > the

> >> > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

> >> > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

> >> near

> >> > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

> >> > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

> >> > > > vehicle.

> >> I

> >> > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

> >> > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

> >> > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

> >> > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can

> place

> >> me

> >> > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

> >> sheet

> >> > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me

> >> > > > no

> >> > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I

> will

> >> kill

> >> > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed

> guide

> >> to

> >> > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But

> nothing

> >> ever

> >> > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

> >> > > > sorry

> >> > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

> >> > > > whether

> >> > > > she ever reached her home !

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

> >> Mantra,

> >> > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

> >> > > > memories

> >> > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

> >> description

> >> > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

> >> direct

> >> > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

>

> >> > > > it

> >> > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names

> like

> >> > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

> >> needs

> >> > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

> >> > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

> >> > > > any

> >> > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

> >> lastly,

> >> > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

>

> >> > > > to

> >> > > > 01-01-1969.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> >> > > >

> >> > > > --- In

> >> > > > <%40>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>,

> >>

> >> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> >> > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

> >> > > > > examine

> >> in

> >> > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The

> >> > > > > joker

> >> in

> >> > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This

> >> > > > is

> >> why

> >> > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

> >> and

> >> > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

> >> sign

> >> > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

> >> > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

> >> qualities

> >> > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

> >> > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

> >> loses

> >> > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or

> >> > > > bad!

> >> So

> >> > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon could

> >> lose

> >> > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> >> > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

>

> >> > > > in

> >> > > > the qualities.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

> >> > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific

> chart!

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk!

> In

> >> fact

> >> > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

> >> THIS

> >> > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

> >> > > > > prayers

> >> > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

> >> > > > Dadas!

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- In

> >> > > > >

<%40>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>,

> >>

> >> > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> >> > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

> >> very

> >> > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

> >> > > > > > smiling

> >> > > > while

> >> > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

> >> > > > relaxed. My

> >> > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

> >> > > > daughter

> >> > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed

> with

> >> > > > smile on

> >> > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

> >> > > > > > intermangled

> >> > > > very

> >> > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies old

> >> > > > > > and

> >> the

> >> > > > > > current traits.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

> >> > > > included),

> >> > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

> >> knowledge;

> >> > > > and

> >> > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go

> on

> >> > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

> >> > > > withstanding

> >> > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis

> >> > > > > > have

> >> > > > learned

> >> > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If

> >> > > > > > this

> >> is

> >> > > > not

> >> > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do

> >> > > > > > bit

> >> of

> >> > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

> >> > > > > > how

> >> > > > quick

> >> > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

> >> > > > prepare

> >> > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

> >> shape

> >> > > > and

> >> > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> >> > > > satisfaction.

> >> > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also

> have

> >> no

> >> > > > doubt

> >> > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

> >> appears

> >> > > > in

> >> > > > > > the group.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I

> were

> >> to

> >> > > > say

> >> > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are

> living.

> >> In

> >> > > > other

> >> > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it

> is

> >> > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

> >> > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> >> > > > opportunity

> >> > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

> >> every

> >> > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

> >> languages.

> >> > > > One

> >> > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

> >> will

> >> > > > use

> >> > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was

> >> > > > > > also

> >> > > > witness

> >> > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

> >> > > > > > been

> >> > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " .

> >> > > > > > Why

> >> > > > such

> >> > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

> >> Rahu

> >> > > > was

> >> > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been

> given

> >> the

> >> > > > name

> >> > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

> >> > > > feared by

> >> > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

> >> learner

> >> > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

> >> > > > problems in

> >> > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

> >> > > > > > names

> >> of

> >> > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

> >> > > > problems.

> >> > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

> >> somehow

> >> > > > tend

> >> > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

> >> sense.

> >> > > > His

> >> > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

> >> very

> >> > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

> >> > > > > > image

> >> of

> >> > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes

> >> > > > > > all

> >> the

> >> > > > so

> >> > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

> >> When

> >> > > > our

> >> > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must

> >> > > > > > have

> >> all

> >> > > > the

> >> > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is no

> need

> >> to

> >> > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems

> to

> >> have

> >> > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

> >> Shishya

> >> > > > is

> >> > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

> >> Shishya,

> >> > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

> >> silence

> >> > > > and

> >> > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

> >> > > > > > the

> >> > > > Guru.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

> >> > > > > > perhaps

> >> > > > never

> >> > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question

> >> > > > > > which

> >> is

> >> > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of

> Jyotish

> >> did

> >> > > > not

> >> > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

> >> > > > called as

> >> > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > --- In

> >> > > > > >

<%40>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>,

> >>

> >> > > > " rohinicrystal "

> >> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

> >> ghabraa

> >> > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey

> >> > > > > > Kaul

> >> > > > usday

> >> > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

> >> hai

> >> > > > yeh

> >> > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

> >> bachchoon-di!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

> >> > > > > > > saal

> >> to

> >> > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

> >> > > > > > seekh-layngay,

> >> jo

> >> > > > raha

> >> > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > --- In

> >> > > > > > >

<%40>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>,

> >>

> >> > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> >> > > > > > wrote:

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> >> > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> >> > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

> >> > > > > > > > MANSOOR

> >> na

> >> > > > > > bolda taan

> >> > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> >> > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

> >> wouldn't

> >> > > > > > have been

> >> > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Regards

> >> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> >> > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> >> > > > > > > > *To:*

> >> > > > > > > >

<%40>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> >> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra

> sadhana's

> >> > > > > > > > ?

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

>

> >> > > > > > > > by

> >> > > > > > competent

> >> > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

> >> > > > > > > > bring

> >> > > > > > salvation to

> >> > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

> >> > > > > > > > attained

> >> > > > > > salvation!

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

> >> given

> >> > > > in

> >> > > > > > the

> >> > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

> >> Gurus

> >> > > > who

> >> > > > > > have

> >> > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and

> humanity

> >> > > > > > suffering so

> >> > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

> >> duniya

> >> > > > > > walon kay

> >> > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> >> > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

SiRR ji,

Who allocates the respected departments? I Think there must be some

appointment letter lying in Records of texts. Dhooloi Mitti saaf karke

padhta hoon.

Regards

Kulbir Bains.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:19 AM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote:

>

> Jupiter is the judge, mercury is the scribe that types in the transcript,

> mars is the executioner, Saturn transports the deadbody from the gallows to

> the place of funeral, nodes dispose of the remains of the punished.

>

> Venus is the wife/sister, sun the father, moon the mother who continue to

> wonder where they went wrong in their love and caring that led their loved

> one and ward to the gallows!

>

> Who is the loved one? The nativity!!

>

> And the empty kundali that remains when they all go home?

>

> Awaits for God to send another soul to fill it, so that Creation may

> continue and Hope may never die!

>

> The end of the beginning!

>

> Regards,

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> <%40>,

> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inder Ji; we shall come to Mercury later but kindly reconsider Who

> is

> > the karak of judge(justice) - SATURN or JUPITER.

> > Regards

> > KB

> >

> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:07 PM, inder <indervohra2001 wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear Kulbir,

> > > Mercury is very peculiar. It is so coward he will runaway seeing a

> Martian

> > > [Mangal]danada or even be afraid seeing a policeman.But he is so

> cunning to

> > > influence/cheat Jupiter.But say in High court or Supreme Court it

> becomes

> > > impossible for Mercurian lawyer to cheat Jupiter[Judge]. But the same

> judge

> > > when meeting with Mercurian Lawyer in a party, meetings or

> internet[Rahu

> > > situation] he could easily influence Jupiter with his glib tounge.

> Similary

> > > TV journlist [Mercury] with mass hysteria influence judges.Such

> inflence

> > > fail in Courts[pure jupiter circumstance]

> > > You are right Mercury= Jupiter +Rahu.

> > > Inder

> > > --- In

<%40>

> <%40>,

>

> > > " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > My dear Kulbir,

> > > > This is the finest one from Lal Kitab ! Mercury=Jupiter + Rahu. Akela

> do

> > > par bhaari. I am just humming " Woh Chaand Khilaa Woh Taare Hanse, Yeh

> Raat

> > > Ajab Maatwari Hai, Samajhane Waale Samaajh Gayein Hain, Jo Naa Samajhe,

> Jo

> > > Naa Samjhe Woh Anaari Hain " . With best wishes.

> > > >

> > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%40>

> <%40>,

> > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Inder;

> > > > > According to lalkitab Mercury = Jupiter + Rahu;

> > > > > malefic or benefic is one's own hands and of-course depth! is a

> > > deciding

> > > > > factor.

> > > > > KB

> > > > >

> > > > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:51 PM, inder <indervohra2001@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Kulbir,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes it is difficult to find Karaka involving single planet.

> > > > > > Communication is Mercury but internet is not communication, it is

> > > > > > vast,infinite and formless network of connection, you communicate

> or

> > > no, it

> > > > > > doesnot matter.It is Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you see the classic texts and take the things in broader way,

> you

> > > may

> > > > > > find that most of the traits of Rahu would match with

> > > internet,starting from

> > > > > > grand or greatgrandfather having huge family with vast population

> and

> > > old

> > > > > > fellow has hazy control over things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Most important trait of Rahu- limitless, timeless,infinite,

> formless,

> > > > > > forign influences would fall in internet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As repored deficincy of concetration in shcool children or even

> > > adults is

> > > > > > major bad effect of internet or TV. It can not fall under

> inflicted

> > > Mercury

> > > > > > or bad placed Mercury. It is only Rahu effect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Go slightly deep, you would be able to draw many conclusions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Inder

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Inder ji

> > > > > > > //Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in

> the

> > > mordern

> > > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.//

> > > > > > > Kindly reconsider it.

> > > > > > > involve COMMUNICATION - then give your reconsidered opinion.

> > > > > > > Sir, It is very very difficult to find karakas involving only a

> > > single

> > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > However if you want to stick to Rahu theory only then for

> arguments

> > > sake

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > can study how and where from internet started. PATAL-LOK.

> > > underwater--

> > > > > > > motorola something! happy journey.

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:12 PM, inder <indervohra2001@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear friends,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let

> me

> > > give

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > submissions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some

> derogatotry

> > > > > > remark to

> > > > > > > > chhaya graha RAHU.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in

> the

> > > mordern

> > > > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless

> and

> > > > > > formless

> > > > > > > > and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which

> it

> > > comes in

> > > > > > > > contact.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury +

> > > Jupiter +

> > > > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated

> with

> > > the

> > > > > > type

> > > > > > > > of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits ,

> porno

> > > > > > sites,

> > > > > > > > sports sites etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and

> > > infinite.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site

> you

> > > will

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily

> religious

> > > > > > rituals

> > > > > > > > with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when

> > > expanding

> > > > > > > > infinite outside.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas,

> > > processions,

> > > > > > > > committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > > > > > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana

> > > [lahiri] of

> > > > > > > > planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get

> engulfed

> > > in

> > > > > > internet

> > > > > > > > whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real

> Yogi

> > > who

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi ,

> we

> > > should

> > > > > > > > remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of

> > > relative

> > > > > > > > position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and

> it

> > > is

> > > > > > hasty,

> > > > > > > > irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects

> also

> > > as

> > > > > > like it

> > > > > > > > expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > > > > > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except

> to

> > > > > > tolerate

> > > > > > > > difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary

> people]

> > > all

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > people in formless networking.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is

> > > really a

> > > > > > > > Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani

> chandal

> > > doen

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > matter to them]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Inder

>

March 30, 2010

YouRR Lordship, Clemency,

Syntax error.

My Statement should have started with... Not agreed totally but accepted for

Arguments sake!.

Regards

KB.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:13 AM, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vaniwrote:

>

> What a sacrilage, bhaiyaa!

> Surely enlightened persons are way above and beyond the " grasp " of grahas?

> At least the Chandaals rahu and ketu :-)

>

> What I see at times in modern jyotish is: Chit bhi meri, pat bhi meri,

> sikka meray baap kaa!

>

> OY VAY!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> <%40>,

> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

>

March 30, 2010

Sir Raj Bharadwaj ji,

Kal chaudavani ki raat thi, shab bhar raha charcha tera;

kuch ne kaha chaand hai,kuch ne kaha chehra tera,

hum se bhi sab poocha kiye, hum muskurakar chup rahe.

MANZOOR THA PARDA TERA.

Lots of Respect

KB.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949 wrote:

>

> My dear Kulbir,

> This is the finest one from Lal Kitab ! Mercury=Jupiter + Rahu. Akela do

> par bhaari. I am just humming " Woh Chaand Khilaa Woh Taare Hanse, Yeh Raat

> Ajab Maatwari Hai, Samajhane Waale Samaajh Gayein Hain, Jo Naa Samajhe, Jo

> Naa Samjhe Woh Anaari Hain " . With best wishes.

>

> Raj Bhardwaj

>

> <%40>,

> Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

> >

> > Dear Inder;

> > According to lalkitab Mercury = Jupiter + Rahu;

> > malefic or benefic is one's own hands and of-course depth! is a deciding

> > factor.

> > KB

> >

> > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:51 PM, inder <indervohra2001 wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear Kulbir,

> > >

> > > Yes it is difficult to find Karaka involving single planet.

> > > Communication is Mercury but internet is not communication, it is

> > > vast,infinite and formless network of connection, you communicate or

> no, it

> > > doesnot matter.It is Rahu.

> > >

> > > If you see the classic texts and take the things in broader way, you

> may

> > > find that most of the traits of Rahu would match with internet,starting

> from

> > > grand or greatgrandfather having huge family with vast population and

> old

> > > fellow has hazy control over things.

> > >

> > > Most important trait of Rahu- limitless, timeless,infinite, formless,

> > > forign influences would fall in internet.

> > >

> > > As repored deficincy of concetration in shcool children or even adults

> is

> > > major bad effect of internet or TV. It can not fall under inflicted

> Mercury

> > > or bad placed Mercury. It is only Rahu effect.

> > >

> > > Go slightly deep, you would be able to draw many conclusions.

> > >

> > > Inder

> > >

> > > --- In

<%40>

> <%40>,

> > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Inder ji

> > > > //Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> mordern

> > > > times real Rahu is internet.//

> > > > Kindly reconsider it.

> > > > involve COMMUNICATION - then give your reconsidered opinion.

> > > > Sir, It is very very difficult to find karakas involving only a

> single

> > > > planet.

> > > > However if you want to stick to Rahu theory only then for arguments

> sake

> > > you

> > > > can study how and where from internet started. PATAL-LOK.

> underwater--

> > > > motorola something! happy journey.

> > > > Regards

> > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > >

>

March 30, 2010

Dear Inder Ji,

A nice piece on Budh an it's cowardice and cunnig nature.However what we

generally observe is that Lawyers and Police are hand in gloves in our judicial

system. Pantaloon Friends. Budh being coward and running away from Danda of

Police (Mangal)somehow does not fit in the role of Budhh you have elaborated !

What I have experienced in Jyotish is somewhat other way round. People who have

Swagrahi Mangal(more so in Lagna), are the one who will avoid any policeman.

Although they may be fighters themselves.They are not scared from Agni(he will

jump into it fire or in the bomb blasts, or burning trains, to save others and

will come out unscathed,due the protective Mangal. They will not be scared of

Dacoits, or jumping from the heights,even at the rik of their life, but

amazingly his bones are genrally not broken in such acts or in accidents. It is

the Mangal ruled person, who becomes a coward when he looks at river water, vast

Sea,or flying over the oceans, and amazingly gets scared from a lowly Police

Constable or for that matter anyone in such uniform. Is it not astonishing ?

Just have some experience yourself if you know such Manglik person, and request

him to accompany you to a Police Station and watch? You will love to watch his

hesitation. Rest was very enjoyable reading indeed ! With regards.

Raj Bhardwaj

, Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb wrote:

>

> Dear Inder Ji; we shall come to Mercury later but kindly reconsider Who is

> the karak of judge(justice) - SATURN or JUPITER.

> Regards

> KB

>

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:07 PM, inder <indervohra2001 wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Kulbir,

> > Mercury is very peculiar. It is so coward he will runaway seeing a Martian

> > [Mangal]danada or even be afraid seeing a policeman.But he is so cunning to

> > influence/cheat Jupiter.But say in High court or Supreme Court it becomes

> > impossible for Mercurian lawyer to cheat Jupiter[Judge]. But the same judge

> > when meeting with Mercurian Lawyer in a party, meetings or internet[Rahu

> > situation] he could easily influence Jupiter with his glib tounge. Similary

> > TV journlist [Mercury] with mass hysteria influence judges.Such inflence

> > fail in Courts[pure jupiter circumstance]

> > You are right Mercury= Jupiter +Rahu.

> > Inder

> > <%40>,

> > " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Kulbir,

> > > This is the finest one from Lal Kitab ! Mercury=Jupiter + Rahu. Akela do

> > par bhaari. I am just humming " Woh Chaand Khilaa Woh Taare Hanse, Yeh Raat

> > Ajab Maatwari Hai, Samajhane Waale Samaajh Gayein Hain, Jo Naa Samajhe, Jo

> > Naa Samjhe Woh Anaari Hain " . With best wishes.

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > --- In

<%40>,

> > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Inder;

> > > > According to lalkitab Mercury = Jupiter + Rahu;

> > > > malefic or benefic is one's own hands and of-course depth! is a

> > deciding

> > > > factor.

> > > > KB

> > > >

> > > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:51 PM, inder <indervohra2001@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kulbir,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes it is difficult to find Karaka involving single planet.

> > > > > Communication is Mercury but internet is not communication, it is

> > > > > vast,infinite and formless network of connection, you communicate or

> > no, it

> > > > > doesnot matter.It is Rahu.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you see the classic texts and take the things in broader way, you

> > may

> > > > > find that most of the traits of Rahu would match with

> > internet,starting from

> > > > > grand or greatgrandfather having huge family with vast population and

> > old

> > > > > fellow has hazy control over things.

> > > > >

> > > > > Most important trait of Rahu- limitless, timeless,infinite, formless,

> > > > > forign influences would fall in internet.

> > > > >

> > > > > As repored deficincy of concetration in shcool children or even

> > adults is

> > > > > major bad effect of internet or TV. It can not fall under inflicted

> > Mercury

> > > > > or bad placed Mercury. It is only Rahu effect.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go slightly deep, you would be able to draw many conclusions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Inder

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>,

> > > > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Inder ji

> > > > > > //Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> > mordern

> > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.//

> > > > > > Kindly reconsider it.

> > > > > > involve COMMUNICATION - then give your reconsidered opinion.

> > > > > > Sir, It is very very difficult to find karakas involving only a

> > single

> > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > However if you want to stick to Rahu theory only then for arguments

> > sake

> > > > > you

> > > > > > can study how and where from internet started. PATAL-LOK.

> > underwater--

> > > > > > motorola something! happy journey.

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:12 PM, inder <indervohra2001@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear friends,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting.Let me

> > give

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > submissions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry

> > > > > remark to

> > > > > > > chhaya graha RAHU.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the

> > mordern

> > > > > > > times real Rahu is internet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

> > > > > formless

> > > > > > > and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it

> > comes in

> > > > > > > contact.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury +

> > Jupiter +

> > > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with

> > the

> > > > > type

> > > > > > > of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno

> > > > > sites,

> > > > > > > sports sites etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and

> > infinite.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you

> > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious

> > > > > rituals

> > > > > > > with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when

> > expanding

> > > > > > > infinite outside.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas,

> > processions,

> > > > > > > committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

> > > > > > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana

> > [lahiri] of

> > > > > > > planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed

> > in

> > > > > internet

> > > > > > > whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi

> > who

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we

> > should

> > > > > > > remove Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of

> > relative

> > > > > > > position of earth, Moon and Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it

> > is

> > > > > hasty,

> > > > > > > irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also

> > as

> > > > > like it

> > > > > > > expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

> > > > > > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to

> > > > > tolerate

> > > > > > > difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people]

> > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > people in formless networking.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is

> > really a

> > > > > > > Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal

> > doen

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > matter to them]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Inder

> > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

> > > > > > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your

> > anecdote "

> > > > > > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the

> > first line

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Kulbeer on the subject – Gurus plays a social role so do the

> > > > > > > > > prostitutes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

> > > > > movement

> > > > > > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

> > > > > > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

> > > > > > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group),

> > committed

> > > > > > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native

> > > > > village,

> > > > > > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present

> > CPI(M)

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

> > > > > against

> > > > > > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967,

> > and

> > > > > slowly

> > > > > > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my

> > first

> > > > > posting

> > > > > > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari

> > village

> > > > > ,

> > > > > > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

> > > > > Movements

> > > > > > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

> > > > > > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In

> > the

> > > > > > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan

> > Jonga. He

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of

> > vehicle,with

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked

> > back

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I

> > nodded

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the

> > Siliguri,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The

> > vehicle

> > > > > > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be

> > back

> > > > > > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head

> > out a

> > > > > number

> > > > > > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red

> > Light

> > > > > area.

> > > > > > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

> > > > > > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo,

> > there

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of

> > civil

> > > > > police

> > > > > > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ;

> > and

> > > > > throwing

> > > > > > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

> > > > > running

> > > > > > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants

> > tightly. A

> > > > > fat

> > > > > > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement,

> > looking

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing

> > towards

> > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same

> > moment,

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found

> > it to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of

> > the

> > > > > > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

> > > > > stopped,

> > > > > > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking

> > at her

> > > > > > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the

> > small

> > > > > rear

> > > > > > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

> > > > > > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything

> > ,

> > > > > like me

> > > > > > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O.

> > again

> > > > > peeped

> > > > > > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack.

> > I kept

> > > > > > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as

> > far as

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about

> > herself. She

> > > > > > > told

> > > > > > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought

> > her to

> > > > > > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can

> > help her

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on

> > the

> > > > > way.

> > > > > > > As

> > > > > > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and

> > > > > commanded

> > > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and

> > gave it

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she

> > should

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one

> > and not

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing

> > down,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with

> > us. I

> > > > > > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly

> > brought it

> > > > > near

> > > > > > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ….and he closed the

> > rear

> > > > > > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

> > > > > vehicle. I

> > > > > > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of

> > karuna and

> > > > > > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I

> > felt so

> > > > > > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a

> > senior is

> > > > > > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can

> > place

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy

> > charge

> > > > > sheet

> > > > > > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul

> > told me

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens,

> > I will

> > > > > > > kill

> > > > > > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed

> > guide

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But

> > nothing

> > > > > > > ever

> > > > > > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on

> > feeling

> > > > > sorry

> > > > > > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > she ever reached her home !

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha,

> > Beej

> > > > > > > Mantra,

> > > > > > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

> > > > > memories

> > > > > > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

> > > > > description

> > > > > > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but

> > it's

> > > > > direct

> > > > > > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may

> > rename

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand

> > names like

> > > > > > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in

> > dire

> > > > > needs

> > > > > > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police

> > raid, I

> > > > > > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not

> > find

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA.

> > And

> > > > > lastly,

> > > > > > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from

> > 19-09-1966

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > 01-01-1969.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

> > > > > examine

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards'

> > (The

> > > > > joker in

> > > > > > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc).

> > This

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the

> > persona

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in

> > whose

> > > > > sign

> > > > > > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is

> > moving

> > > > > > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

> > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga

> > or

> > > > > > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so

> > affected

> > > > > loses

> > > > > > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good

> > or

> > > > > bad! So

> > > > > > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest-like nature', moon

> > could

> > > > > lose

> > > > > > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

> > > > > > > > > aggression... etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a

> > reduction

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the qualities.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the

> > individual

> > > > > > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific

> > chart!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own

> > risk! In

> > > > > > > fact

> > > > > > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE

> > DON'T TRY

> > > > > THIS

> > > > > > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE

> > BY! :-)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

> > > > > prayers

> > > > > > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my

> > > > > Dadas!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

> > > > > > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been

> > really

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and

> > > > > smiling

> > > > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming.

> > Completely

> > > > > > > > > relaxed. My

> > > > > > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my

> > younger

> > > > > > > > > daughter

> > > > > > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me

> > relaxed with

> > > > > > > > > smile on

> > > > > > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

> > > > > intermangled

> > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya,Deekshya,traditions; cunturies

> > old

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > current traits.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis

> > also

> > > > > > > > > included),

> > > > > > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

> > > > > knowledge;

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still

> > go on

> > > > > > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts,

> > not

> > > > > > > > > withstanding

> > > > > > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such

> > jyotishis

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul.

> > If

> > > > > this is

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to

> > do

> > > > > bit of

> > > > > > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to

> > read,

> > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > quick

> > > > > > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds,

> > how we

> > > > > > > > > prepare

> > > > > > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give

> > them a

> > > > > > > shape

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

> > > > > > > > > satisfaction.

> > > > > > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I

> > also have

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from

> > what

> > > > > > > appears

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the group.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if

> > I were

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are

> > living.

> > > > > In

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if

> > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by

> > any

> > > > > > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

> > > > > > > > > opportunity

> > > > > > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily

> > available and

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

> > > > > languages.

> > > > > > > > > One

> > > > > > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How

> > they

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis)

> > was

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > witness

> > > > > > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I

> > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal

> > Yoga " .

> > > > > Why

> > > > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically

> > Jupiter, but

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been

> > given

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > name

> > > > > > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this

> > Yoga is

> > > > > > > > > feared by

> > > > > > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc.

> > When a

> > > > > > > learner

> > > > > > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause

> > of

> > > > > > > > > problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just

> > take

> > > > > names

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all

> > the

> > > > > > > > > problems.

> > > > > > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga

> > and

> > > > > somehow

> > > > > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the

> > real

> > > > > sense.

> > > > > > > > > His

> > > > > > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is

> > very

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard.

> > The

> > > > > image

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and

> > breakes

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called

> > maryada.

> > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really

> > must

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > rishis,munis,gurus who had dual personalities. There is

> > no need

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga

> > seems to

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where

> > a

> > > > > Shishya

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses

> > the

> > > > > > > Shishya,

> > > > > > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break

> > his

> > > > > > > silence

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast

> > exposing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Guru.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big

> > question

> > > > > which is

> > > > > > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of

> > Jyotish

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be

> > termed or

> > > > > > > > > called as

> > > > > > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > " rohinicrystal "

> > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna

> > kol...!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek

> > do

> > > > > > > ghabraa

> > > > > > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US

> > dey

> > > > > Kaul

> > > > > > > > > usday

> > > > > > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni -

> > Azib

> > > > > hai

> > > > > > > > > yeh

> > > > > > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/Parmeshwar/God day

> > > > > bachchoon-di!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar

> > ik

> > > > > saal

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor

> > > > > seekh-layngay, jo

> > > > > > > > > raha

> > > > > > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali!! ;-)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je

> > > > > MANSOOR na

> > > > > > > > > > > bolda taan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better,

> > Mansoor

> > > > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > > > > have been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *To:*

<%40>

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra

> > sadhana's

> > > > > ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is

> > given

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > competent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru

> > to

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > > > > > > salvation to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

> > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > > > salvation!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are

> > being

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide

> > ;-)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many

> > millions of

> > > > > > > Gurus

> > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and

> > humanity

> > > > > > > > > > > suffering so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach

> > hai

> > > > > duniya

> > > > > > > > > > > walon kay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Dear Chandrashekhar Ji,

I am enjoying your posts. But, I feel you could have missed my msg No.73157 and

what was the context of Guru-Rahu yuti,in the present times. ! I hope you will

like reading it, as the thread began from there.! With my best regards.

Raj Bhardwaj

, " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Dear Vattem Krishnan,

>

> I was responding to Rohini's mail. I have already made clear what is meant by

Chandal and what by MlecCha. I had said " One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst

men and that of Mlecha is a wicked man, a foreigner, one who does not speak

Sanskrit etc. So that too is right. "

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar

>

> -

> Vattem Krishnan

>

> Monday, March 29, 2010 12:37 PM

> Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Dear Sir,

> It is true that persons opeartating from burial grounds are referred with

this term.It's application however to Rahu in litteral terms is not properly

substantiated.mlechas are not chandals.

> In our epics more so when we recollect about Raja Satya Harischndra Story,we

find the reference of " Chandal " the one who burns dead bodies and keeps watch at

burial grounds.

> Doms are not falling under chandal category.Some where it is also mentioned

to cannibals or narbhakshas as chnadals.

>

> Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling

services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets

are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma

>

> --- On Sun, 3/28/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar

> Re: Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Sunday, March 28, 2010, 3:15 PM

>

> Dear Rohini Ranjan,

>

> I am trying to acquire its manuscript, through one of my friends and hope to

learn some more about Paraashara.

>

> Yes, Chandal is an interesting term. They are generally thought to be those

who operate at funeral sites.

>

> Rahu is enigmatic planet and so has not rest or does not allow others to

rest.

>

> Regards,

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> -

>

> rohinicrystal

>

> Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:57 PM

>

> Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> Chandrashekhar jee,

>

> Thanks for taking the time, Sir. I have not had the good fortune of having

seen Vriddha Parashari. I have only studied BPHS, Parashara Samhita and

Laghu/madhya parashari.

>

> My urdu is rather limited, actually.

>

> Chandaal is a very interesting term and at one point were thought of as the

'5th caste'! In MP they were called Dom and in bengal nomoshuddoor.

>

> Poor Rahu! Even on its home-turf (internet according to some) there is no

rest for the wicked :-)

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Rohini Ranjan,

>

> >

>

> > One meaning of Chandal is worst amongst men and that of Mlecha is a wicked

man, a foreigner, one who does not speak Sanskrit etc. So that too is right.

>

> >

>

> > So your contention is also correct. I liked the comment about change of

perception between ibtedah and inteha. You must be pretty good at Urdu?

>

> >

>

> > Have you heard of a manuscript called Vriddha Parashari?

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Chandrashekhar.

>

> >

>

> > -

>

> > rohinicrystal

>

> >

>

> > Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:45 AM

>

> > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar jee,

>

> >

>

> > I have also heard that rahu represents mlechchaas or 'other

cultures/foreign cultures'

>

> >

>

> > Often plays a part according to what jyotishis " claim " that it has to do

with journey abroad or marrying into other cultures and religions and so on.

Just another wrinkle, I suppose! But by no means uncommon, based on the queries

received by jyotishis working actively on the " Jyotish HOT-LINE! "

>

> >

>

> > As touched upon in my astrotreasures article written long ago and posted

on boloji years later -- BPHS changed its perspective between the ibetadh and

inteha! That was a clue for me that I tuned-in profitably (in terms of

learning!) -- and the fact that it was placed so close to Sudarshan completed

the clue for me!

>

> >

>

> > Krishna was the awataar of Vishnu that carried the Sudarshan Chakra and

was Poorna Purusha! If I write anything further on this matter in this august

forum, I will be insulting the intelligence and Gnan of the inhabitants on this

huge Island!

>

> >

>

> > Rohiniranjan

>

> >

>

> > , " Chandrashekhar "

<sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > > Dear Inderjee,

>

> > >

>

> > > Does not Rahu rule over the Chandals? That is why he is also called

Chandal. So Guru Chandala yoga is nothing but conjunction of Guru and Rahu.

>

> > >

>

> > > Personally I think that though people tend to connect the word chandal

with the morals or behaviour of a person who has Guru Chandal yoga, that might

not be the case always.

>

> > >

>

> > > Rahu gives results of the bhavesha whom he conjoins so Rahu will give

results of Guru while Guru himself may not be able to give his full results

during its dasha.

>

> > >

>

> > > Chandrashekhar.

>

> > >

>

> > > -

>

> > > inder

>

> > >

>

> > > Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:12 PM

>

> > > Re: Guru Chaandal Yoga & INTERNET

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Dear friends,

>

> > >

>

> > > This discussion on Guru-Chaandal Yoga is very interesting. Let me give

my submissions.

>

> > >

>

> > > Why Rahu was called Chaandal was perhaps to give some derogatotry remark

to chhaya graha RAHU.

>

> > >

>

> > > Earlier I gave one theory:Karaka for internet is Rahu.So in the mordern

times real Rahu is internet.

>

> > >

>

> > > Beauty of Rahu is that it is infinite, shapeless, colourless and

formless and takes shape and characterstics of the planet with which it comes in

contact.

>

> > >

>

> > > Internet astrology is all about Mercury+ Rahu or Mercury + Jupiter +

Rahu.

>

> > >

>

> > > Internet can take any shape and character as gets associated with the

type of people-- astro sites, religious sites, terrorists sits , porno sites,

sports sites etc.

>

> > >

>

> > > Why Chanadal-- as it distracts mind, makes the mind hazy and infinite.

>

> > >

>

> > > Once with internet religious site or astro site or any site you will

have distracted mind, cannot perform even your Yoga or daily religious rituals

with concentration. You can not go and expand inwards when expanding infinite

outside.

>

> > >

>

> > > Earlier olden days Rahu effects were in the form of Melas, processions,

committees, rumours, epidemics, foreign influences etc.

>

> > > But the moderm dayday epidemic is internet.

>

> > >

>

> > > My experience is when you are running bhukti/antra /prana [lahiri] of

planet which is in star sub or subsub of Rahu, you get engulfed in internet

whirlpool and will not have peace of mind.

>

> > >

>

> > > Also I have feeling that if you are seeing a chart of a real Yogi who is

not at-all connected to out world but only internal Samadhi , we should remove

Rahu-Ketu from the chart.In any case Rahu is MAYA of relative position of earth,

Moon and Sun.

>

> > >

>

> > > Some members crtisize that internet astrology is spoiled and it is

hasty, irreligious etc, but this Chanadal has some positive aspects also as like

it expands your knowledge to limitless sphere.

>

> > > Moreover internet is democratic- leaves you no choice except to tolerate

difference of opinion. It equilizes[learned and ordinary people] all the people

in formless networking.

>

> > >

>

> > > It captures you, engulfs you.For your family members ,it is really a

Chaandal[Guru chandal or budhha chanda or shukra or shani chandal doen not

matter to them]

>

> > >

>

> > > Inder

>

> > > , Kulbir Bains <lalkitabkb@ >

wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sir Raj Bhardwaj ji,

>

> > > > Kamaal kar diya ji aapne, Zinda undhaharan pesh kar di. MARHABA

>

> > > > Regards

>

> > > > Kulbir Bains.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Raj <rajbhardwaj1949@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Yes Rohini and Kulbeer Bhai, I tend to agree with your anecdote "

>

> > > > > Shape Shifter " ! Here I would just try to also cover the first line

of

>

> > > > > Kulbeer on the subject - Gurus plays a social role so do the

>

> > > > > prostitutes.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Just 4 days ago , Kanu Sanyal, the man who started a peasants

movement

>

> > > > > in a very small village named " Naxalbari " , which ultimately

>

> > > > > became to be known the Naxals or Naxalites ; and it's further

>

> > > > > carnation , the present day's PWG(People's War Group), committed

>

> > > > > suicide,found hanging in his one room hutment in his native village,

>

> > > > > frustrated with the changes in the ideology of the present CPI(M) in

the

>

> > > > > garb of PWG. He was the GURU of Naxalite movement,which began

against

>

> > > > > the Zamindars in the end of year 1966 or begening of 1967, and

slowly

>

> > > > > and steadily spearead in the most states of India.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > I had finished my 1 year training in the Air Force and my first

posting

>

> > > > > was in a place called Bengdubi, about 30 Kms from Naxalbari village

,

>

> > > > > near Baghdogra, in Siliguri,Distt Darjeeling in October,1968.

Movements

>

> > > > > of defence personnel in this region were well guarded.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > On a holiday, I was doing the duty as deputy of the `Orderly

>

> > > > > Officer'(who looks after each happenings within the Unit). In the

>

> > > > > evening, he just called his driver to take out the Nissan Jonga. He

also

>

> > > > > called me out and asked me to sit in the back side of vehicle,with

my

>

> > > > > Sten Gun. The vehicle moved out of the Unit, and he looked back from

>

> > > > > the rear window and asked me Lal-Batti dekhi hai kabhi ? I nodded in

>

> > > > > negative. After about 20 minutes drive, we entered the Siliguri, and

>

> > > > > headed towards a small colony of huts and mud houses. The vehicle

>

> > > > > stopped. He got down and told me just see around, I shall be back

>

> > > > > quickly. I was looking out and also had to stretch my head out a

number

>

> > > > > of times , to fathom out that this place was indeed a Red Light

area.

>

> > > > > Such areas are strictly `Out of Bounds' for the defence

>

> > > > > personnel ,which was taught in our training manuals. And Lo, there

was

>

> > > > > suddenly a big commotion in the area and I saw a number of civil

police

>

> > > > > personnel forcing out the women from their living places ; and

throwing

>

> > > > > them in the police lorry. Then I looked at my Orderly Officer

running

>

> > > > > running towards our vehicle, trying to hold his pants tightly. A fat

>

> > > > > man,must be about 55 years, on the verge of retirement, looking very

>

> > > > > funny to me. Then in a flash I noticed a young girl dashing towards

back

>

> > > > > of our vehicle, trying to catch it and enter. At the same moment,

our

>

> > > > > vehicle started. I just extended my arm out , the girl found it to

be

>

> > > > > helping hand, I pulled her inside and she sat on the floor of the

>

> > > > > vehicle. Few policemen did try to run after her, but they had

stopped,

>

> > > > > having seen that ours was a defence vehicle.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > She was trying to get her breathing normal and I was looking at her

>

> > > > > nonchalantly. After few minutes the O.O peeped back from the small

rear

>

> > > > > window' and shouted " Who the bitch is this?. I did not reply.

>

> > > > > But I think that the driver must have also noticed everything , like

me

>

> > > > > in the tript to Lal Batti. After about 5 minutes the O.O. again

peeped

>

> > > > > back and said ` Hey boy I will take this girl to my Barrack. I kept

>

> > > > > mum. My mind was blank. No thought was crossing my mind, as far as I

>

> > > > > still remember. In the meantime I asked the girl about herself. She

told

>

> > > > > that she is from Rajasthan and one of her uncles had brought her to

>

> > > > > this place 6 months back and she will be grateful if I can help her

to

>

> > > > > go to Rajasthan. I knew that the Railway Station was just on the

way. As

>

> > > > > we reached near the main gate, I called out the driver and commanded

him

>

> > > > > to stop the vehicle. I had just about 3 Rupees with me and gave it

to

>

> > > > > the girl and apologized that I cannot help her further, she should

just

>

> > > > > catch any available train and try to take help from any one and not

to

>

> > > > > worry, YOU will reach your Home. As the vehicle was slowing down,

the

>

> > > > > O.O. shouted at me and ordered me that the girl with go with us. I

>

> > > > > simply pointed my Sten Gun in his direction and slowly brought it

near

>

> > > > > his nose where he could feel the heat ..and he closed the rear

>

> > > > > window. The vehicle stopped and I helped the girl out of the

vehicle. I

>

> > > > > still carry the memory of her tearful eyes with full of karuna and

>

> > > > > thanks giving , till the vehicle moved out of her sight. I felt so

>

> > > > > tired and exhausted , I simply slumped on my seat.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > On the way back thoughts started crossing my mind that a senior is

>

> > > > > always a senior in the armed forces, if the O.O. wants he can place

me

>

> > > > > under arrest after reaching the unit and frame any flimsy charge

sheet

>

> > > > > against me and I could even face a court martial. My soul told me no

>

> > > > > fears so be it. Then I took a resolve that if it so happens, I will

kill

>

> > > > > this son of a Gun senior- the Teacher-the Mentor-The supposed guide

to

>

> > > > > me, by virtue of his being senior to me in rank in age. But nothing

ever

>

> > > > > happened further on this count. For years on, I went on feeling

sorry

>

> > > > > that I could not help her any further and would always wonder

whether

>

> > > > > she ever reached her home !

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Now after such a long gap the discussion on Gurus, Deeksha, Beej

Mantra,

>

> > > > > Guru Chaandal Yoga, Kanu Sanyal, Naxalbari has brought these

memories

>

> > > > > back to me as fresh as ever before.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > As far me I feel that I have also fully understood that the

description

>

> > > > > of this yoga in Shastras was indirect and not so direct but it's

direct

>

> > > > > and literal meaning or name is CHAANDAL GURU-YOGA, If I may rename

it

>

> > > > > in direct form. The O.O. must have called me by thousand names like

>

> > > > > CHAANDAL or manay more direct expletives , because he was in dire

needs

>

> > > > > of the wants of his body and mind....and after the police raid, I

>

> > > > > deprived him of this real good oprtunity. But then, I do not find

any

>

> > > > > such yoga which can directly label me as CHAANDAL SHISHYA. And

lastly,

>

> > > > > that time I was running the mahadasha of Rahu-Rahu from 19-09-1966

to

>

> > > > > 01-01-1969.

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > <%

40. com>,

>

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

>

> > > > > <jyotish_vani@ > wrote:

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > Just an anecdotal suggestion, Raj_dada, if I may for you to

examine in

>

> > > > > your collection of charts or test bench.

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > I have always considered the lunar node as 'wild-cards' (The joker

in

>

> > > > > a game of cards! A chalnaa, a mimic, a 'Shape-shifter' etc). This is

why

>

> > > > > perhaps it is considered as a 'surrogate' that assumes the persona

and

>

> > > > > role of the planet it is associated with or failing that in whose

sign

>

> > > > > and nakshatra it is placed in). Particularly when a node is moving

>

> > > > > towards the planet it is co-occuping a varga, it imbibes the

qualities

>

> > > > > and abilities of the planet concerned (I call it suction-yoga or

>

> > > > > Hoover-Yoga -- after the vacuum cleaner!). The planet so affected

loses

>

> > > > > some or all of its propensity and natural qualities for good or bad!

So

>

> > > > > a jupiter could lose its 'Teacher/priest- like nature', moon could

lose

>

> > > > > its sensitive, emotional side or memory, mars could lose its

>

> > > > > aggression.. . etc!). It may not be a complete loss but a reduction

in

>

> > > > > the qualities.

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > Such influence is not necessarily good or bad for the individual

>

> > > > > depending on the personal nature of the node in the specific chart!

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > Please remember that it is anecdotal! Try it at your own risk! In

fact

>

> > > > > for other novice readers, I would venture to add: PLEASE DON'T TRY

THIS

>

> > > > > AT HOME WITHOUT YOUR TEACHER OR PARENT BEING PRESENT CLOSE BY! :-)

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > So nice to hear that cheerfulness is back in your heart. My

prayers

>

> > > > > and best wishes that Ma always shower Her blessings on ALL my Dadas!

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > > > > <%

40. com>,

>

> > > > > " rajbhardwaj1949 "

>

> > > > > rajbhardwaj1949@ wrote:

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > Dear Bhai Rohini, Kulbir and Krishnan and all Jyotishis,

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > The thread on " Beej Mantra " and " I disagree " have been really

very

>

> > > > > > > interesting for me. After a long time I was enjoying and smiling

>

> > > > > while

>

> > > > > > > reading the exchange, and at times I was humming. Completely

>

> > > > > relaxed. My

>

> > > > > > > wife had observed me at a few occasions and called my younger

>

> > > > > daughter

>

> > > > > > > to observe me silently and also enjoyed finding me relaxed with

>

> > > > > smile on

>

> > > > > > > my face. Somehow the subject in both the threads got

intermangled

>

> > > > > very

>

> > > > > > > beautifully. Guru,Shishya, Deekshya, traditions; cunturies old

and the

>

> > > > > > > current traits.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > I have firm belief that almost all of us(other jyotishis also

>

> > > > > included),

>

> > > > > > > who try to give answers to the queries to best of their

knowledge;

>

> > > > > and

>

> > > > > > > most of the times face brickbats and get No thanks, still go on

>

> > > > > > > participating in their respective groups ,like addicts, not

>

> > > > > withstanding

>

> > > > > > > the skirmishes here and there.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > This further strengthens my belief, that all such jyotishis have

>

> > > > > learned

>

> > > > > > > jyotish with their own efforts, with no Guru or Gurukul. If this

is

>

> > > > > not

>

> > > > > > > Junoon, then what else. The will to learn and the will to do bit

of

>

> > > > > > > experiment too in the process.How much time it takes to read,

how

>

> > > > > quick

>

> > > > > > > reactions or delayed reactions take seeds in our minds, how we

>

> > > > > prepare

>

> > > > > > > ourselves to gather the thoughts and type these to give them a

shape

>

> > > > > and

>

> > > > > > > not expecting anything in return. Just the pure joy and

>

> > > > > satisfaction.

>

> > > > > > > This is a continuous process of learning for us and I also have

no

>

> > > > > doubt

>

> > > > > > > that the young learner also must be picking a lots from what

appears

>

> > > > > in

>

> > > > > > > the group.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > I will be hanged and stoned by the so called purists, if I were

to

>

> > > > > say

>

> > > > > > > that there is no need to have Guru, in the times we are living.

In

>

> > > > > other

>

> > > > > > > words every learner of Jyotish has his own free Will , if it is

>

> > > > > > > Operational , to learn the Jyotish without being bound by any

>

> > > > > > > Rules,Paramparas etc. This is so because the material and

>

> > > > > opportunity

>

> > > > > > > for picking up Jyotish is now really very easily available and

every

>

> > > > > > > learner has good faculties in the field of education and

languages.

>

> > > > > One

>

> > > > > > > just needs to have a keen eye and belief in himself. How they

will

>

> > > > > use

>

> > > > > > > their knowledge will depend solely on themselves.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > While on the subject of , I (like many other Jyotishis) was also

>

> > > > > witness

>

> > > > > > > to few other happenings involving a Guru and Shishya. I have

been

>

> > > > > > > thinking for quite some time about the " Guru-Chaandal Yoga " . Why

>

> > > > > such

>

> > > > > > > yoga was mentioned in BPHS. Guru was specifically Jupiter, but

Rahu

>

> > > > > was

>

> > > > > > > not specifically Chandaal. I am not sure if Rahu has been given

the

>

> > > > > name

>

> > > > > > > of Chaandal in it's various descriptions. Now how this Yoga is

>

> > > > > feared by

>

> > > > > > > all like Rahu dasha,Shani dasha, Shani Sade Sati etc. When a

learner

>

> > > > > > > like me perhaps does not get any reason to show the cause of

>

> > > > > problems in

>

> > > > > > > facing the jataka , we the lesser known jyotishis just take

names of

>

> > > > > > > such yogas or positions of Shani as the root cause of all the

>

> > > > > problems.

>

> > > > > > > Very easy way out indeed.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > I have been thinking a lot about The Guru-Chaandal Yoga and

somehow

>

> > > > > tend

>

> > > > > > > to believe, that Guru can become like a Chaandal in the real

sense.

>

> > > > > His

>

> > > > > > > all faculties are shut and whatever he does and utters is very

very

>

> > > > > > > surprising, it hits everything and everybody very hard. The

image of

>

> > > > > > > Guru becomes that of a Satan,as he breathes fire and breakes all

the

>

> > > > > so

>

> > > > > > > called maryada of a Guru, if there is anything called maryada.

When

>

> > > > > our

>

> > > > > > > Rishis mentioned this Guru -Chaandal Yoga, they really must have

all

>

> > > > > the

>

> > > > > > > rishis,munis, gurus who had dual personalities. There is no need

to

>

> > > > > > > elaborate this. The real meaning of Guru Chaandal Yoga seems to

have

>

> > > > > > > sink in now. It simply sinks the esteerm of a Guru, where a

Shishya

>

> > > > > is

>

> > > > > > > forced to challenge his Guru, and more the Guru accuses the

Shishya,

>

> > > > > > > more he exposes himself, and forces the Shishya to break his

silence

>

> > > > > and

>

> > > > > > > he starts hesitatingly initially but goes full blast exposing

the

>

> > > > > Guru.

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > But, then the Shishya also has to be a real learner, who perhaps

>

> > > > > never

>

> > > > > > > depends solely and blindly on one Guru. Now a big question which

is

>

> > > > > > > staring me and I have been wondering why the fathers of Jyotish

did

>

> > > > > not

>

> > > > > > > mention about any yoga specifically , which could be termed or

>

> > > > > called as

>

> > > > > > > " SHISHYA CHAANDAL " Yoga in the Jyotish !

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > <%

40. com>,

>

> > > > > " rohinicrystal "

>

> > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@ > wrote:

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > But Praajee...!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > IK HORE thaa jo Dasyaa gadheriyaan de-vichh, unna kol...!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Varah (12) thay unna-di banday! Jotish main jaisay!! Ek do

ghabraa

>

> > > > > > > gayey shaayad, aisaa sanu sunaa noo! Pher laut aayey US dey Kaul

>

> > > > > usday

>

> > > > > > > 'marnay' day baad!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Kis-day kaul woh sab logaan lautay, mainu nai pataa!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Asi to sirf dekhnaay may zindagi gawaan dittay! Kinni - Azib

hai

>

> > > > > yeh

>

> > > > > > > kahaniyan bachchon di! Raab/Khudaa/ Parmeshwar/ God day

bachchoon-di!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Maaf karnaa praa -- punjabi bhot pyaari lagdii si magar ik

saal to

>

> > > > > > > nahin naa kafi! Shaayad aglay janam main kuch hor seekh-layngay,

jo

>

> > > > > raha

>

> > > > > > > giya si is janam-vich baki!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Aankhaan khulie rakhiyo! Aandar_waali! ! ;-)

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Happy Easter!!

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > <%

40. com>,

>

> > > > > Kulbir Bains lalkitabkb@

>

> > > > > > > wrote:

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > SiRR ji,

>

> > > > > > > > > HUSH is the word;

>

> > > > > > > > > Bolan naalon chup changeri, chup de naalon parda; je MANSOOR

na

>

> > > > > > > bolda taan

>

> > > > > > > > > sooli kahnu Chadhda.

>

> > > > > > > > > Silence is golden; veil of secrecy even better, Mansoor

wouldn't

>

> > > > > > > have been

>

> > > > > > > > > hanged on gallows ;had he preferred silence.

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > Regards

>

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

>

> > > > > > > > > ** rohinicrystal jyotish_vani@

>

> > > > > > > > > *To:* <%

40. com>

>

> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Sun, 21 March, 2010 6:15:54 AM

>

> > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Information about beej mantra sadhana's

?

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > Kulbir_praaji,

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > This 'regulation' , " ...if deeksha of beej mantra is given

by

>

> > > > > > > competent

>

> > > > > > > > > guru, then it becomes the responsibility of the guru to

bring

>

> > > > > > > salvation to

>

> > > > > > > > > the disciple. " -- has an interesting wrinkle!

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > It implies that the Guru himself/herself has already

attained

>

> > > > > > > salvation!

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > I think it is safe to assume that such deekshas are being

given

>

> > > > > in

>

> > > > > > > the

>

> > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands, if not millions, world-wide ;-)

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > Now Chelaa poochtaa hai, " If there are so many millions of

Gurus

>

> > > > > who

>

> > > > > > > have

>

> > > > > > > > > attained salvation already... Why is the earth and humanity

>

> > > > > > > suffering so

>

> > > > > > > > > much? " :-B

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > ~Sab kuch seekha humnay, naa seekhie hoshiyari, Sach hai

duniya

>

> > > > > > > walon kay

>

> > > > > > > > > hum SUB hain anadi/anari! ~

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > >

March 30, 2010

Dear Raj ji,

In fact what I meant was Mercury consciousness.[term not well defined or

documented] All humen beings have mix of differnt type of consciousness. No one

is pure Mercury, closest we can say school teacher or a Nurse or journlist.My

previous example must be wrong as you are right- lawyers are not mercurians ,

they are bundle of Mars-Jupiter-Mercury conciousness.

Even my experiene say that Bhadra Mahapurusha Yoga where Mercury exalted/own

house in Kendra are not Mercurian personalties.

It is also difficult to define Martian or Mercurian simply glacing a horoscope.

Sometimes you come under the grip of Mercury while running bhukti/antra of

planets connected/linked to Mercury at star sub level and transit support

that.Complex game.

Inder

, " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949 wrote:

>

> Dear Inder Ji,

> A nice piece on Budh an it's cowardice and cunnig nature.However what we