Guest guest Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Dear Sir ji; Pt. Chandra Munni Pathak has an interesting note in his commentary on lalkitab; i don't know how to translate it into English so i am putting it as such in Romanised Hindi; " " 1. Bharat mein grahon ka jyotishiye jyan saurmandal ke grahon se sambhandhit nahin hai, apitu ek aisa sidhanth hai, jisme yeh bataya gaya hai ki kissi bhi prakrtik - aprakritik ikkayion me balrekhaon se bane oorja uttsarjan bindu kaun kaun hain. Saurmandal ke grahon ki pehchan bhi isi sidhant ke tahat ki gayi, isliye inme samanta pratit hoti hai " . Regards Kulbir Bains --- On Sun, 7/3/10, VJha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: VJha <vinayjhaa16 Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 4:41 AM Â Krishnan Ji, I am trying to update my software making platforms. I live in a remote place and I get pirated things at company prices. Hence, it is taking too much time. Earlier, I had worked with physical astronomy, which was my first love since I was 11 years old. I gave it up in astrology nearly 12 years ago when I got irrefutable proofs of " astrological " fitness of Suryasiddhanta. The world is certainly heading towards a major sea change (first khanda-kalpa of present Kaliyuga), but it is not a Doomsday. I think the worst is over and we are heading towards better days. World population will decrease henceforth and Kaalachakra is moving backwards : from Japan to Korea, then to China and finally to India's rise in the raashi of Vrish, and from USA-Canada to Western Europe, then to south-east Europe (Rome, Greece) and then to Egypt and Sudan in the Simha raashi. This Drikpakshiya theory has not fully survived. -VJ Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads./in/internetexplorer/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ================ === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Vinayji, > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > VJha > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote > : > > <<< > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt > that the topic was on AD. > >>> > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " > and tried to distort my statement. > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " . Why you assume all editors are > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > " Kaalachakra-dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > " Kaalachakra-antardashaa-phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > beginning of this chapter. > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's > aim. > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi-2 was missing in > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi-2 (10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3), I gave an > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi-2 : > 10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > -VJ > ================= ==== > , " Chandrashekhar " > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > working > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > " Please > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > dasa > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation > of > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > article > > properly. > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > up > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. > PVR > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > which I > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > the > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > notice, > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > Kundalee Software. > > > > -VJ > > ================ === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > BPHS > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > sure > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you > move > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > has > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > Shashthaashta-gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > Jeeva > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we > may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ===================== === > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > swami.rcs@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > Sequence > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > Stanza > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD > is > > very important. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 <<< You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. >>> This sentence is clearly against me, because I wrote that only the negative Gatis are mentioned in BPHS and positive Gatis are not named. It is not my invention, as Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma falsely charges. He says " I began penning a book on it (KCD) " but seems to be ignorant of the fact that all three gatis mentined in BPHS are bad, but many people have good phases in their lives too. Secondly, BPHS gives many sequences such as 1,2,3,.... which do not come under either of mandooki, markati or simhaavalokana. Hence, there must be more than three gatis and any additional gati must be benefic. Only malefic Durgatis are mentioned in BPHS (as gatis). Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma claims to an expert on KCD but is ignorant of this fact as well as of other facts. Recently he refused to accept that KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari and asked me to show the verse. The verse is " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). " I never wrote any independent article of KCD. Recently, I saw a debate between Mr Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao. I found PVR to correct on one point. I wrote something to PVR on that point, and pasted my answer on my website too. It was not a comprehensive article on KCD. On AD, I did not give any detailed analysis, but only some brief comments on the topic which PVR and Mr Rath were discussing. I think there is no need of any new article on KCD because Phaladeepikaa has elaborated it beautifully. Some astrologers are creating unncessary controversies about KCD. Phaladeepikaa is based on BPHS and Chandrashekhar Ji has not read some important editions of BPHS (cf. " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " ). -VJ ============= === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Krishnan, > > I think there is more confusion about Kalchakra dasha than any other dasha simply because though it is called as one of the important dashas, people tend to find more than what is there in it. You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. That is good to see in print but I doubt if it helps. > > People tend to argue more about what is right than taking pains to read that which is clearly stated. The use of the dasha is simple if one understands it right. > > As a matter of fact I began penning a book on it, and it is half complete but since I am at present translating one of my own books under direction from Mahamandaleshwar of a respected Akhada, that has taken a back seat. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > - > Vattem Krishnan > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:55 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Sir, > 1Since nakshtra r basically savya(15) and apasavya(12) based and also on DEHA and Jeeva accordingly some ambiguity is KCD is there.Further nakshtra pada also decides commencement of Dasa .For ex bharani 4th,the order is as mentioned by Shri Chandrsekhar Ji.where as antar dasa also floows same order working out paramyu as 86yrs. > 2.Parasara certainly has also taken dasa visleshan based Kalchakradasa.But some how the working out of dasa of KCD has three methods as explained by BVR in his book. > It appears,some problem in interpretation lead to differences.Like wise application of KCD for anlysis also there were different views.Some opine if venus is strong in natal chart or based on Moon if strong etc. > In KCD dasaa basically proceed by three distinct steps.1.Mandooka2.Markata and 3.Simhavalokana,keeping basically svaya and apasavya clasification of Nakshtras. > 3.//4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka?//As per KCD scheme this is Correct. > 4. //But then I see you have given something called...//There seems to be typographical mistake. > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Sat, 3/6/10, Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Saturday, March 6, 2010, 2:10 PM > > > > Dear Vinay, > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically said that BPHS does not have them. > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. But then I see you have given something called > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > - > > VJha > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of working > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : " Please > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my article > > properly. > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up > > this point, but you helped him out. > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. PVR > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after which I > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out the > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to notice, > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > Kundalee Software. > > -VJ > > ============ ==== === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where BPHS > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am sure > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you move > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD has > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ========= === > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " swami.rcs@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > Sequence > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD is > > very important. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Dear Vinayji, You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. Regards, Chandrashekhar - VJha Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ================ === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Vinayji, > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > VJha > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote > : > > <<< > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt > that the topic was on AD. > >>> > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " > and tried to distort my statement. > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " . Why you assume all editors are > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > " Kaalachakra-dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > " Kaalachakra-antardashaa-phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > beginning of this chapter. > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's > aim. > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi-2 was missing in > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi-2 (10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3), I gave an > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi-2 : > 10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > -VJ > ================= ==== > , " Chandrashekhar " > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > working > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > " Please > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > dasa > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation > of > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > article > > properly. > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > up > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. > PVR > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > which I > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > the > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > notice, > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > Kundalee Software. > > > > -VJ > > ================ === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > BPHS > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > sure > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you > move > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > has > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > Shashthaashta-gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > Jeeva > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we > may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ===================== === > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > swami.rcs@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > Sequence > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > Stanza > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD > is > > very important. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Respected ChandraShekhar Ji, I am waiting for the list of trees/plants ruled by different Nakshatras. Regards Kulbir Bains. > Regards, > Chandrashekhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Dear VJ, Nameste. I must have avoided writing this mail. I do not post mails here but read only for getting insights in some serious topics because, this list has some real scholars like you and few others. Your posting that initiated thread on KCD had no previous reference to background that you now have disclosed / proposed concerning debate between PVR and Rath. For your information there is no debate but yes there is monologue on part of PVR in response to one mail on KCD. Perhaps they have not met for years together. Any way your answer is arrogant to my questions but that's fine and displays attitude you have learned, it is your choice. Now let us see few statements you have made. 1. The method of AD has already been described with example. I revisited your webpage and found none, Please check if article is published with some part missing. 2. I am surprised with your statement " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone " .. Late Santhanam has considered slokas of Seetaram jha reliable, He also maintained that Version of Dev chand Jha was equally reliable, but for minor variation in concepts although both the texts originally are reconstructed. Various people have fancy about authencity of BPHS but Concepts of KCD are not figment of imagination however interpretation of slokas or reconstruction could be at variation. I do not know why you have chosen to go in tangent instead of answering simple question posed by me and later doubts raised to be cleared By Mr Chandrasekhar. Evidently you have not understood the questions that were asked, asking question showed your postings are cared by people. The next possibility is you know KCD like a pundit but does not know how it is derived and thus has evaded answers like pundits do. 3. The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. I am not a Sanskrit scholar, But I read first time KCD from version of Ganesh Dutt Pathak around 27 years back along with description in Phaldeepika and Jatak parijaat with commentary by Pt Gopesh kumar Oza. Having no jyotish guru and being busy in government job as an executive I had little time to devote and KCD was beyond correct grasp. Around 1990 TOA carried article from Late Sri Santhanam and also Article BY Sh K.N.Rao With Some Viveki, That roused my interest but I found Methods advocated by Them did not work. Then came Book Of Dr B.V.Ramn. I shall not make any comments. What I have quoted Is from English versions made available In name Of Santhanam ( as Vol II has been not been completed by him before his demise except for rough draft) and OF GC Sharma .About AD slokas There is a difference of Two sloka . Mr Chandra shekhar has quoted reference from Reliable early published BPHS ,but no one can force to change once opinion, Of what one likes to hold right or wrong. You have your own theory and you are entitled to hold to it. 4. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. I did not ask computation it is mentally calculable. My question was how you work out AD? Say in case of sub- periodization do you teach AD remain within the same cycle for the dasa in KCD throughout. and its related issues. 5. Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. No comments needed. Teacher/ scribe have to be clear about subject before teaching/ writing the subject. 6. is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, Did you check in which chand these verses are, type of Sanskrit used therein. Age of Sanskrit if constructed is post parasar or preparshar. If you are expert in both these areas your observations may carry weight, not otherwise. Failing on my part does not arise for I have not learnt above but have idea of secret behind these limited verses on AD .They are linked to Navamsa- lords. What I am unsure is their correct calculation pattern hece my respose and query Was made. 7. . This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. Once upon a time I installed This Software and found clumsy. Before I could work out and check My hard disc collapsed, Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalofastrology.com/article.php?article_id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. Plaese forgive me if my this mail contents do evoke unpleasant emotions. With respects to all participants to this thread. RC ***********summary of correspondance ***************8 To All : See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa -VJ 6-3-2010 Dear VJ, Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD is very important. With regards. RCS • To RCS : The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence " . It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD has already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about Shashthaashta-gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. -VJ • Dear Vinay, I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called alachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am sure you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. So RC ji is right. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Mr Chandrashekhar, Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : " Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my article properly. BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, but you helped him out. Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. PVR Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after which I provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out the original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to notice, including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, The refrain sounds familiar. Earlier too you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth about how astrology must be done or calculated. Now please understand that I am not quoting you but paraphrasing based on the sense I get and I hope others who are observing and experiencing you on internet might have made similar observations too. It is pretty depressing to see such collective resistance towards one person (you!). You are a wise person, a professor, a yogi and astrologer. In other words someone well-equipped to figure out why this dissonant chords between your work and the internet consumers/users! Once again, I am not telling you what you must do (I know you are a big boy!) -- but was just wondering why this is happening or rather occurring to you! And you have never been abusive or unreasonable in your expressions either! Wonder what is going on! Very intriguing...! Best regards, Rohiniranjan • Rohiniranjan Ji, Your recent comments are simply misplaced and insulting ( " you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth " ). You do not know me, mainly because I am not interested in making myself known. Majority of my articles have been published by others, with my consent. None of the nine panchangas made by me carries my name in editor boards, and none of those editors do anything in my panchangas. I have guided four PhDs in four subjects, but refused to get mine. My consistent refusal to get recognition is miscontrued by you as a sign of " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for failing to get recognized. Recently I tore away (not in anger) certificates of recognition awarded to me at astrological conferences at Patna and Allahabad. Lust for Fame is poison to me. I consistently refused to upload my software on internet for long years, because I knew the idiosyncracy of a majority of internet astrologers. But this prejudiced majority should not prevent the open minded minority from using what I know is correct. It is not my belief, but the result of long years of tests. You know many things but one : the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. The world must function properly. -VJ • I feel saddned that you choose to take my words as insulting. I was basing my statements on what I had been observing based on what you were writing publicle and privately through internet. Obviously, all I can know of you is what I see on the internet. What I wrote, therefore, should not reasonably be taken as indicative of your many wonderful, and unique qualities and motivations etc such as your academic achievements,panchaangs etc that you have told us about quite a few times., etc. As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world – we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering and probably as we move towards the date which many are apocalypticly warning (21-12-2012), we will be facing increasing challenges and warnings against the well-being of the earth and its dwellers. One worry less is one sigh of relief gained, I suppose. Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer • <<< As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world -- we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering.>>> It is not what I said. My words were " the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. " Any revolutionary change in fundamental beliefs results in temporary upheavals and obstacles in proper functioning. This is what I meant. Besides, I have no power to remove materialism from the minds of those who believe physical planets are deities and therefore any alternative software must not be tested. Men cannot be changed unless they are ready to change themselves. Persons with strong Saturn are more difficult to change, perhaps due to slow motion of Saturn. But if Saturn is exalted, it results in positive change in the long run, after initial pitfalls. You are wrongly thanking me for preservation of this world. I decided in 1971 not to become a baby-boomer, while you have added this adjective to your name in this message ( " Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer " ). After a century ot two, no one will remember me, but you will be remembered, at least by your babies & c. It is for the benefit of babies of persons like you that I worked so hard. If my work is wasted and destroyed and forgotten, it will not harm me in any respect. The only difference you have with me is due to the fact that I found, much later in my life, that physical astronomy gives worse astrological results than Suryasiddhanta. Before this finding, I had equal or perhaps more faith in the astrological validity of physical planetary motions. Had I retained my earlier opinion, you would have found no difference. You sincerely used words like " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for me. But such traits are results of expectations. I had no expectation. Hence, there was no question of disappointment. The whole world is taught physical astronomy, formally as well as informally. Even many of those who have to study Suryasiddhanta do not comprehend it properly. Hence, a software based on a misunderstood text could not become popular. Moreover, I am using outdated Visual Basic version which is not allowing many users to install Kundalee on their machines. You also know these issues well. Then, why you guessed I am " disappointed " ? I knew the outcome beforehand, and that is why I refrained from launching Kundalee on web for years ; Kundalee is still not fit for web (it contains outdated DLL files). You have question thrice why I am treated so. Here is the answer : Presently, the planets of MD, AD and PD in my horoscope have bitter enmical aspects on 10th house. In my birthchart too, I have lord of 11th Sun sitting in 4th (house of Suhrid), which makes my " friends " often unfriendly towards me. Hence, I must not get recognition or honour for my work. Due to my way of life, bonds of horoscope are not hard on me, and I get recognition wherever I go. But I try to keep away from honours & c because I know if I stick to this World I will have to pay a heavy price by being engulfed by it in the form of next birth/births. I have no grudge against you. I can even tolerate abuses from those who have contributed something worthwhile to others. I do not mean you have ever abused anyone, including me, I only mean that you have really contributed something good to society at large, and that is your real worth to me. It does not matter to me what is your opinion about me or about my work. Not even 1% on my work is on internet, hence you do not know my work. Bulk of my written works are not in astrology but in comparative linguistics of Indo-European languages (mainly concerning the dating of Rgveda through linguistic means), which I never published in book form but gave parts of it in lectures and some articles and emails only. Sincerely, -VJ • Thank you very much Vinay_jee for opening your heart on this forum where I know you are indeed respected and where the moderator has publicly assured you several times that you will always be listened too, and from my lowly ant's perspective you have been! I use the metaphor of 'ant' from time to time, not to portray veiled arrogance or sham-humility but to me, ants represent the 'grihasta' and worldly reality of the very same DIVINITY that also produces monks and sadhus and sages and awatars! The same MA and BABA who create all this magic and whose BABIES we all are: Grihasta and Brahmachari! It is for the BABIES of those CELESTIAL PARENTS that we all must work towards & that includes the grihasta and the brahmachari and the rest of the fauna and flora! I KNOW that the YUGAS will bring pralayas and we all shall return to where we started and ACTUALLY never left! That is what to me personally has always meant SATURN's message and SATURN'S BLESSINGS! STAMBHAN (of any planet) perhaps in transit or even in natal represents SATURN, while atichara represents some other astrological-factor...! Saturn is that KHOONTI (hindi Khoonti and not bangla khoonti!) to which the goat (astrological reality starting with aries/mesha) is tied to with the illusive rope of free-will, as Thakur Paramahansa's allegory reminds us. I have always wondered as to why RamKrishna used the goat as the animal in the metaphor! Goats are known to have an innate GIFT for chewing incessantly! What if they decide to chew on the rope that tie them fatalistically to SATURN? Emancipation can come to GOATS too, can it not? I hope the GOATs are listening? I mean CHEWING!! Regards, Rohiniranjan • [Rohini Da, Grihasthas are not ants. All other ashramas depend on them. While sanyaasis, fed by grihasthas, look after moksha, Dharma in this world is maintained by Grihasthas. Unfortunately, most of the grihasthas in kaliyuga have become grihastas (grih-asta : combust in the home). -VJ • Vinay_jee, As far as combustion is concerned, often touched upon earlier -- a new question since the earliers remained unanswered: Does the Sun becomes combust when each evening he goes ASTA in the west? I had heard another version too! Griha -- Sthaa When the griha comes to stay (comes back HOME) griha-sthaa! SATURN again! Chores and hard repetitive work, day in and day out! Like the lowly ants (grihasthas!) need to finish before they get access to their computers ;-) Count your blessings...! Rohiniranjan • Sir, The ongoing discussion and the initiative taken to elaborate Kalachakra dasa needs to be complemented.AS most of us show eagerness to apply mostly the Chara Dasa or Vimshottari though KCD application seems to work better in some cases(b4 and after war times) found to be more precise.Few people actually make effort to apply KCD and in this context Shri Vinay Ji efforts are laudible. His software too should enhance the enthusiasm as the development was made after thorough study of classsiclas,though it is mainly oriented towards surya siddhantic principles.Unfortunately my efforts to load and use on window Vista never gave me the personal satisfaction to understand the efficacy of software.Some of our JT members,however endorsed compliments. The criticism for and against these initiative of Shri VJ need not be be taken with grin as they r not meant towards personal efforts nor to take with grin.Certainly his contribution to educate and develop astrology in the present times shall definetely help those worried about apocalypse relating to 21st Dec. and remove all doubts that the order of the Nature is very much stable and nothing to apprehend catastophy. The recent unexpected events in chile,Japan and impending tectonic movements it is evident the world is under transformation.(but disintegration?)This feeling emerges more when people's hard earned money does not also seems to be secure. Be the Mars in Cancer,Ketu in Gemini aspect ed by Saturn in Virgo,with exalted venus in Pisces.Religious sentiments certainly getting brow beaten.and the soothsayer known as Devaguru seems to be feeble though he is out from debilitation but shadowed with Guru Chandal Yoga in rahu's Stabhisha. The worried worls need some sigh of relief and is certainly a hope that can come through with the efforts being made by our members and encouraging members from time to time.The benifit out of these crtical discussions Iam sure members will take them in right earnes and laud all those with penchant to do write some thing different from routine and explore all the past base and make the knowledge reachable to common man. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan Ji, I am trying to update my software making platforms. I live in a remote place and I get pirated things at company prices. Hence, it is taking too much time. Earlier, I had worked with physical astronomy, which was my first love since I was 11 years old. I gave it up in astrology nearly 12 years ago when I got irrefutable proofs of " astrological " fitness of Suryasiddhanta. The world is certainly heading towards a major sea change (first khanda-kalpa of present Kaliyuga), but it is not a Doomsday. I think the worst is over and we are heading towards better days. World population will decrease henceforth and Kaalachakra is moving backwards : from Japan to Korea, then to China and finally to India's rise in the raashi of Vrish, and from USA-Canada to Western Europe, then to south-east Europe (Rome, Greece) and then to Egypt and Sudan in the Simha raashi. This Drikpakshiya theory has not fully survived. • I ask this, because some of the things you wrote, Vinay_jee, struck a chord! So is it the COUNTRIES (China, Korea, India, Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan and their political situations and economies etc...) that are going to progress or will the human-individuals who may be Indian today but may be born in Japan or Iraq, in their very next lifetime! Or perhaps insects shall rule the universe, yet again!! Something tells me that there is going to be a next lifetime -- several perhaps because KALIYUGA is not fully done yet! What do you think? Rohiniranjan • Human beings will fare according to theor own individual karmas, while countries will fare according to fixed laws of mundane jyotisha. During my school days, I wondered why most of the rich persons are born in rich countries ! It is only the beginning of Kaliyuga. Only 5110 years have elapsed. 426890 years are yet to come, during which there will be nine more socalled Doomsdays. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, Yes humanity still has a fair amount of time! Even by Sri Yukteshwar Giri's reckoning which baffles many -- as does the ayanamsha that 'astronomical books' were following, as also the 54 " annual rate of progression that he shared with us all in The Holy Science -- primarily written for a specific purpose in 1894 -- as clearly stated by Yogananda's Gurujee. In fact, even if we all who are chattering away wisely here and elsewhere were to be suddenly decimated into our 'elements' C, N, O, S and a bunch of other pieces that belong to the periodic table, would that put CREATION to an end? Or CREATIVITY...? Sometimes the Puppeteer (whose performance it really is -- and not of the puppet!) is so skilled, like some parents are -- that the puppet really carries the show, and never manages to figure out who was pulling the strings and who was really in control! Either way, the PARENT/PUPPETEER wins because after all whose show it is, after all? Rohiniranjan • Dear Sir, It is only micro organisms that will have a longer life over arthropods or milli/centipeds.The fast changing climate and emissions make humans with shields looking like scietific Avatasrs. Insects,I mean UFO's ruling of course a scientific version.Like Man with a Calti Ka Naam gadi is also Chatushpada.The over take or scientific explosion put man behind .so the waning of the homosapiens is the question of time,say distant end of Kaliyuga. Having to be a japanee or Iraquee in the next birth will be a major wish,as in India it is develop...... " ing " other nations like Korea(except congo) including Iraq,japan and the lattest Afganisthan are having less of history and Nations in making will no doubt emerge further will have a major say in Global matters. China and Congo may still be there what the histories of these countries convey.Of course not even century hold has hopes but yet in baking stage.The cake before it is made is target for many to cut and celebrate.yet the land of Ganga,Jamna may boast of very 5th and 9th house.But drikdrishti theory may further fail these hopes. Exception seems to be the Vikruti Nanam samvatsaram where orderliness is predicted for this nation to progress and bring reforms.Not Certainly women's Reservation Bill nor the debated Nuclear bill of the past. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan dada, Please tell us more about the *drikdrishti* theory you mentioned about towards the end of your message (quoted below). Very early on in my pursuance of astrology, SAMBANDHA in the horoscope became a crucial point of attention for me and that is where SYNTHESIS became such an important point-of-focus. Drishti (when eyes meet) is very synthetic, of course. Rohiniranjan • sir, As all of us Surya Siddhanta has a unque system oc classificcation.like India Meru .........Dakshna dhk bhage..........etc.For mundane purpose this is followed by some jyotishis. 2.Basically in Munadane Astrology,others more or less of the Parasara the location /situation of regions ,countries was thought to be based on drik pakshiya drishti.(Disa./direction). This resulted in cluster and was lacking clarity to find the correctness of astrological progress vis a vis their destiny/fate/.So this too has become debatable. 3..Also people hold the view the independence/liberation day chart too are not meaningful. The analysis for mundane purpose as of now based on conventional model has been revised.Now based the disatnce from equator,and georphical data,a chkra has been drwan and it's traditional as well as scientific importance is yet to be estblishes Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(Dear Sir ji; Pt. Chandra Munni Pathak has an interesting note in his commentary on lalkitab; i don't know how to translate it into English so i am putting it as such in Romanised Hindi; " " 1. Bharat mein grahon ka jyotishiye jyan saurmandal ke grahon se sambhandhit nahin hai, apitu ek aisa sidhanth hai, jisme yeh bataya gaya hai ki kissi bhi prakrtik - aprakritik ikkayion me balrekhaon se bane oorja uttsarjan bindu kaun kaun hain. Saurmandal ke grahon ki pehchan bhi isi sidhant ke tahat ki gayi, isliye inme samanta pratit hoti hai " . Regards Kulbir Bains • Dear Vinay, I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically said that BPHS does not have them. You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote <<< BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. >>> I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " and tried to distort my statement. Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " . Why you assume all editors are unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on " Kaalachakra-dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as " Kaalachakra-antardashaa-phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the beginning of this chapter. My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my message because you brought my statements out of context and changed some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's aim. Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi-2 was missing in BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi-2 (10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3), I gave an example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi-2 : 10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and against Sri Jyoti Star. -VJ • Dear Sir, 1Since nakshtra r basically savya(15) and apasavya(12) based and also on DEHA and Jeeva accordingly some ambiguity is KCD is there.Further nakshtra pada also decides commencement of Dasa .For ex bharani 4th,the order is as mentioned by Shri Chandrsekhar Ji.where as antar dasa also floows same order working out paramyu as 86yrs. 2.Parasara certainly has also taken dasa visleshan based Kalchakradasa.But some how the working out of dasa of KCD has three methods as explained by BVR in his book. It appears,some problem in interpretation lead to differences.Like wise application of KCD for anlysis also there were different views.Some opine if venus is strong in natal chart or based on Moon if strong etc. In KCD dasaa basically proceed by three distinct steps.1.Mandooka2.Markata and 3.Simhavalokana,keeping basically svaya and apasavya clasification of Nakshtras. 3.//4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka?//As per KCD scheme this is Correct. 4. //But then I see you have given something called...//There seems to be typographical mistake. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling 7 March 2010 • I have explained the main problem of KCD in http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa -VJ • Vinayji, I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ================ === • Dear Krishnan, I think there is more confusion about Kalchakra dasha than any other dasha simply because though it is called as one of the important dashas, people tend to find more than what is there in it. You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. That is good to see in print but I doubt if it helps. People tend to argue more about what is right than taking pains to read that which is clearly stated. The use of the dasha is simple if one understands it right. As a matter of fact I began penning a book on it, and it is half complete but since I am at present translating one of my own books under direction from Mahamandaleshwar of a respected Akhada, that has taken a back seat. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • <<< You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. >>> This sentence is clearly against me, because I wrote that only the negative Gatis are mentioned in BPHS and positive Gatis are not named. It is not my invention, as Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma falsely charges. He says " I began penning a book on it (KCD) " but seems to be ignorant of the fact that all three gatis mentined in BPHS are bad, but many people have good phases in their lives too. Secondly, BPHS gives many sequences such as 1,2,3,.... which do not come under either of mandooki, markati or simhaavalokana. Hence, there must be more than three gatis and any additional gati must be benefic. Only malefic Durgatis are mentioned in PHS (as gatis). Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma claims to an expert on KCD but is ignorant of this fact as well as of other facts. Recently he refused to accept that KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari and asked me to show the verse. The verse is " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). " I never wrote any independent article of KCD. Recently, I saw a debate between Mr Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao. I found PVR to correct on one point. I wrote something to PVR on that point, and pasted my answer on my website too. It was not a comprehensive article on KCD not. On AD, I did give any detailed analysis, but only some brief comments on the topic which PVR and Mr Rath were discussing. I think there is no need of any new article on KCD because Phaladeepikaa has elaborated it beautifully. Some astrologers are creating unncessary controversies about KCD. Phaladeepikaa is based on BPHS and Chandrashekhar Ji has not read some important editions of BPHS (cf. " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " ). -VJ , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ================ === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra-dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra-antardashaa-phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi-2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi-2 (10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3), I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi-2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ================= ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ================ === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta-gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ===================== === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Member one time alone i can approve this kind of msg and if the respective members defend themselves once it is enuf, else no more. no abuses on anyone esp the ones whose contribution can't be matched by the critics at any level. ones in the traditional schools i mean not the drifters, short cut path finds [to nowhere] thanks - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ Astro Talk <astro.talk Tue, March 9, 2010 2:42:28 AM Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods // Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalo fastrology. com/article. php?article_ id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. // RCS, do you know who he is, he takes lecture at Sampoorna Nand University, BHU, KCD university etc etc…. Actually on internet all are frogs so everybody's world finishes to Sanjay Rath, PVR, K N Rao, B V Raman.Internet and metro cities dont cover whole India, go to many other cities who are remote to internet like Varanasi, Patna,Gaya.. .You will get to know what Jyotish is... What link you are showing... K N Rao, He is astrologer?? Vinay Jha is son of 7 timer MP and one of the founder member of Communism in India(Jyoti Basu was also one of them) So, dont show all those things to him. Pawan Maurya --- On Mon, 8/3/10, Swami_rcs <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Swami_rcs <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Monday, 8 March, 2010, 8:27 PM Dear VJ, Nameste. I must have avoided writing this mail. I do not post mails here but read only for getting insights in some serious topics because, this list has some real scholars like you and few others. Your posting that initiated thread on KCD had no previous reference to background that you now have disclosed / proposed concerning debate between PVR and Rath. For your information there is no debate but yes there is monologue on part of PVR in response to one mail on KCD. Perhaps they have not met for years together. Any way your answer is arrogant to my questions but that's fine and displays attitude you have learned, it is your choice. Now let us see few statements you have made. 1. The method of AD has already been described with example. I revisited your webpage and found none, Please check if article is published with some part missing. 2. I am surprised with your statement " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone " .. Late Santhanam has considered slokas of Seetaram jha reliable, He also maintained that Version of Dev chand Jha was equally reliable, but for minor variation in concepts although both the texts originally are reconstructed. Various people have fancy about authencity of BPHS but Concepts of KCD are not figment of imagination however interpretation of slokas or reconstruction could be at variation. I do not know why you have chosen to go in tangent instead of answering simple question posed by me and later doubts raised to be cleared By Mr Chandrasekhar. Evidently you have not understood the questions that were asked, asking question showed your postings are cared by people. The next possibility is you know KCD like a pundit but does not know how it is derived and thus has evaded answers like pundits do. 3. The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. I am not a Sanskrit scholar, But I read first time KCD from version of Ganesh Dutt Pathak around 27 years back along with description in Phaldeepika and Jatak parijaat with commentary by Pt Gopesh kumar Oza. Having no jyotish guru and being busy in government job as an executive I had little time to devote and KCD was beyond correct grasp. Around 1990 TOA carried article from Late Sri Santhanam and also Article BY Sh K.N.Rao With Some Viveki, That roused my interest but I found Methods advocated by Them did not work. Then came Book Of Dr B.V.Ramn. I shall not make any comments. What I have quoted Is from English versions made available In name Of Santhanam ( as Vol II has been not been completed by him before his demise except for rough draft) and OF GC Sharma .About AD slokas There is a difference of Two sloka . Mr Chandra shekhar has quoted reference from Reliable early published BPHS ,but no one can force to change once opinion, Of what one likes to hold right or wrong. You have your own theory and you are entitled to hold to it. 4. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. I did not ask computation it is mentally calculable. My question was how you work out AD? Say in case of sub- periodization do you teach AD remain within the same cycle for the dasa in KCD throughout. and its related issues. 5. Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. No comments needed. Teacher/ scribe have to be clear about subject before teaching/ writing the subject. 6. is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, Did you check in which chand these verses are, type of Sanskrit used therein. Age of Sanskrit if constructed is post parasar or preparshar. If you are expert in both these areas your observations may carry weight, not otherwise. Failing on my part does not arise for I have not learnt above but have idea of secret behind these limited verses on AD .They are linked to Navamsa- lords. What I am unsure is their correct calculation pattern hece my respose and query Was made. 7. . This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. Once upon a time I installed This Software and found clumsy. Before I could work out and check My hard disc collapsed, Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalo fastrology. com/article. php?article_ id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. Plaese forgive me if my this mail contents do evoke unpleasant emotions. With respects to all participants to this thread. RC ***********summary of correspondance ************ ***8 To All : See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ 6-3-2010 Dear VJ, Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD is very important. With regards. RCS • To RCS : The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence " . It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD has already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. -VJ • Dear Vinay, I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called alachakraantardasha aphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am sure you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. So RC ji is right. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Mr Chandrashekhar, Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : " Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my article properly. BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, but you helped him out. Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. PVR Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after which I provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out the original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to notice, including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, The refrain sounds familiar. Earlier too you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth about how astrology must be done or calculated. Now please understand that I am not quoting you but paraphrasing based on the sense I get and I hope others who are observing and experiencing you on internet might have made similar observations too. It is pretty depressing to see such collective resistance towards one person (you!). You are a wise person, a professor, a yogi and astrologer. In other words someone well-equipped to figure out why this dissonant chords between your work and the internet consumers/users! Once again, I am not telling you what you must do (I know you are a big boy!) -- but was just wondering why this is happening or rather occurring to you! And you have never been abusive or unreasonable in your expressions either! Wonder what is going on! Very intriguing.. .! Best regards, Rohiniranjan • Rohiniranjan Ji, Your recent comments are simply misplaced and insulting ( " you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth " ). You do not know me, mainly because I am not interested in making myself known. Majority of my articles have been published by others, with my consent. None of the nine panchangas made by me carries my name in editor boards, and none of those editors do anything in my panchangas. I have guided four PhDs in four subjects, but refused to get mine. My consistent refusal to get recognition is miscontrued by you as a sign of " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for failing to get recognized. Recently I tore away (not in anger) certificates of recognition awarded to me at astrological conferences at Patna and Allahabad. Lust for Fame is poison to me. I consistently refused to upload my software on internet for long years, because I knew the idiosyncracy of a majority of internet astrologers. But this prejudiced majority should not prevent the open minded minority from using what I know is correct. It is not my belief, but the result of long years of tests. You know many things but one : the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. The world must function properly. -VJ • I feel saddned that you choose to take my words as insulting. I was basing my statements on what I had been observing based on what you were writing publicle and privately through internet. Obviously, all I can know of you is what I see on the internet. What I wrote, therefore, should not reasonably be taken as indicative of your many wonderful, and unique qualities and motivations etc such as your academic achievements, panchaangs etc that you have told us about quite a few times., etc. As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world – we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering and probably as we move towards the date which many are apocalypticly warning (21-12-2012) , we will be facing increasing challenges and warnings against the well-being of the earth and its dwellers. One worry less is one sigh of relief gained, I suppose. Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer • <<< As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world -- we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering.>> > It is not what I said. My words were " the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. " Any revolutionary change in fundamental beliefs results in temporary upheavals and obstacles in proper functioning. This is what I meant. Besides, I have no power to remove materialism from the minds of those who believe physical planets are deities and therefore any alternative software must not be tested. Men cannot be changed unless they are ready to change themselves. Persons with strong Saturn are more difficult to change, perhaps due to slow motion of Saturn. But if Saturn is exalted, it results in positive change in the long run, after initial pitfalls. You are wrongly thanking me for preservation of this world. I decided in 1971 not to become a baby-boomer, while you have added this adjective to your name in this message ( " Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer " ). After a century ot two, no one will remember me, but you will be remembered, at least by your babies & c. It is for the benefit of babies of persons like you that I worked so hard. If my work is wasted and destroyed and forgotten, it will not harm me in any respect. The only difference you have with me is due to the fact that I found, much later in my life, that physical astronomy gives worse astrological results than Suryasiddhanta. Before this finding, I had equal or perhaps more faith in the astrological validity of physical planetary motions. Had I retained my earlier opinion, you would have found no difference. You sincerely used words like " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for me. But such traits are results of expectations. I had no expectation. Hence, there was no question of disappointment. The whole world is taught physical astronomy, formally as well as informally. Even many of those who have to study Suryasiddhanta do not comprehend it properly. Hence, a software based on a misunderstood text could not become popular. Moreover, I am using outdated Visual Basic version which is not allowing many users to install Kundalee on their machines. You also know these issues well. Then, why you guessed I am " disappointed " ? I knew the outcome beforehand, and that is why I refrained from launching Kundalee on web for years ; Kundalee is still not fit for web (it contains outdated DLL files). You have question thrice why I am treated so. Here is the answer : Presently, the planets of MD, AD and PD in my horoscope have bitter enmical aspects on 10th house. In my birthchart too, I have lord of 11th Sun sitting in 4th (house of Suhrid), which makes my " friends " often unfriendly towards me. Hence, I must not get recognition or honour for my work. Due to my way of life, bonds of horoscope are not hard on me, and I get recognition wherever I go. But I try to keep away from honours & c because I know if I stick to this World I will have to pay a heavy price by being engulfed by it in the form of next birth/births. I have no grudge against you. I can even tolerate abuses from those who have contributed something worthwhile to others. I do not mean you have ever abused anyone, including me, I only mean that you have really contributed something good to society at large, and that is your real worth to me. It does not matter to me what is your opinion about me or about my work. Not even 1% on my work is on internet, hence you do not know my work. Bulk of my written works are not in astrology but in comparative linguistics of Indo-European languages (mainly concerning the dating of Rgveda through linguistic means), which I never published in book form but gave parts of it in lectures and some articles and emails only. Sincerely, -VJ • Thank you very much Vinay_jee for opening your heart on this forum where I know you are indeed respected and where the moderator has publicly assured you several times that you will always be listened too, and from my lowly ant's perspective you have been! I use the metaphor of 'ant' from time to time, not to portray veiled arrogance or sham-humility but to me, ants represent the 'grihasta' and worldly reality of the very same DIVINITY that also produces monks and sadhus and sages and awatars! The same MA and BABA who create all this magic and whose BABIES we all are: Grihasta and Brahmachari! It is for the BABIES of those CELESTIAL PARENTS that we all must work towards & that includes the grihasta and the brahmachari and the rest of the fauna and flora! I KNOW that the YUGAS will bring pralayas and we all shall return to where we started and ACTUALLY never left! That is what to me personally has always meant SATURN's message and SATURN'S BLESSINGS! STAMBHAN (of any planet) perhaps in transit or even in natal represents SATURN, while atichara represents some other astrological- factor... ! Saturn is that KHOONTI (hindi Khoonti and not bangla khoonti!) to which the goat (astrological reality starting with aries/mesha) is tied to with the illusive rope of free-will, as Thakur Paramahansa' s allegory reminds us. I have always wondered as to why RamKrishna used the goat as the animal in the metaphor! Goats are known to have an innate GIFT for chewing incessantly! What if they decide to chew on the rope that tie them fatalistically to SATURN? Emancipation can come to GOATS too, can it not? I hope the GOATs are listening? I mean CHEWING!! Regards, Rohiniranjan • [Rohini Da, Grihasthas are not ants. All other ashramas depend on them. While sanyaasis, fed by grihasthas, look after moksha, Dharma in this world is maintained by Grihasthas. Unfortunately, most of the grihasthas in kaliyuga have become grihastas (grih-asta : combust in the home). -VJ • Vinay_jee, As far as combustion is concerned, often touched upon earlier -- a new question since the earliers remained unanswered: Does the Sun becomes combust when each evening he goes ASTA in the west? I had heard another version too! Griha -- Sthaa When the griha comes to stay (comes back HOME) griha-sthaa! SATURN again! Chores and hard repetitive work, day in and day out! Like the lowly ants (grihasthas! ) need to finish before they get access to their computers ;-) Count your blessings... ! Rohiniranjan • Sir, The ongoing discussion and the initiative taken to elaborate Kalachakra dasa needs to be complemented. AS most of us show eagerness to apply mostly the Chara Dasa or Vimshottari though KCD application seems to work better in some cases(b4 and after war times) found to be more precise.Few people actually make effort to apply KCD and in this context Shri Vinay Ji efforts are laudible. His software too should enhance the enthusiasm as the development was made after thorough study of classsiclas, though it is mainly oriented towards surya siddhantic principles.Unfortun ately my efforts to load and use on window Vista never gave me the personal satisfaction to understand the efficacy of software.Some of our JT members,however endorsed compliments. The criticism for and against these initiative of Shri VJ need not be be taken with grin as they r not meant towards personal efforts nor to take with grin.Certainly his contribution to educate and develop astrology in the present times shall definetely help those worried about apocalypse relating to 21st Dec. and remove all doubts that the order of the Nature is very much stable and nothing to apprehend catastophy. The recent unexpected events in chile,Japan and impending tectonic movements it is evident the world is under transformation. (but disintegration? )This feeling emerges more when people's hard earned money does not also seems to be secure. Be the Mars in Cancer,Ketu in Gemini aspect ed by Saturn in Virgo,with exalted venus in Pisces.Religious sentiments certainly getting brow beaten.and the soothsayer known as Devaguru seems to be feeble though he is out from debilitation but shadowed with Guru Chandal Yoga in rahu's Stabhisha. The worried worls need some sigh of relief and is certainly a hope that can come through with the efforts being made by our members and encouraging members from time to time.The benifit out of these crtical discussions Iam sure members will take them in right earnes and laud all those with penchant to do write some thing different from routine and explore all the past base and make the knowledge reachable to common man. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan Ji, I am trying to update my software making platforms. I live in a remote place and I get pirated things at company prices. Hence, it is taking too much time. Earlier, I had worked with physical astronomy, which was my first love since I was 11 years old. I gave it up in astrology nearly 12 years ago when I got irrefutable proofs of " astrological " fitness of Suryasiddhanta. The world is certainly heading towards a major sea change (first khanda-kalpa of present Kaliyuga), but it is not a Doomsday. I think the worst is over and we are heading towards better days. World population will decrease henceforth and Kaalachakra is moving backwards : from Japan to Korea, then to China and finally to India's rise in the raashi of Vrish, and from USA-Canada to Western Europe, then to south-east Europe (Rome, Greece) and then to Egypt and Sudan in the Simha raashi. This Drikpakshiya theory has not fully survived. • I ask this, because some of the things you wrote, Vinay_jee, struck a chord! So is it the COUNTRIES (China, Korea, India, Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan and their political situations and economies etc...) that are going to progress or will the human-individuals who may be Indian today but may be born in Japan or Iraq, in their very next lifetime! Or perhaps insects shall rule the universe, yet again!! Something tells me that there is going to be a next lifetime -- several perhaps because KALIYUGA is not fully done yet! What do you think? Rohiniranjan • Human beings will fare according to theor own individual karmas, while countries will fare according to fixed laws of mundane jyotisha. During my school days, I wondered why most of the rich persons are born in rich countries ! It is only the beginning of Kaliyuga. Only 5110 years have elapsed. 426890 years are yet to come, during which there will be nine more socalled Doomsdays. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, Yes humanity still has a fair amount of time! Even by Sri Yukteshwar Giri's reckoning which baffles many -- as does the ayanamsha that 'astronomical books' were following, as also the 54 " annual rate of progression that he shared with us all in The Holy Science -- primarily written for a specific purpose in 1894 -- as clearly stated by Yogananda's Gurujee. In fact, even if we all who are chattering away wisely here and elsewhere were to be suddenly decimated into our 'elements' C, N, O, S and a bunch of other pieces that belong to the periodic table, would that put CREATION to an end? Or CREATIVITY.. .? Sometimes the Puppeteer (whose performance it really is -- and not of the puppet!) is so skilled, like some parents are -- that the puppet really carries the show, and never manages to figure out who was pulling the strings and who was really in control! Either way, the PARENT/PUPPETEER wins because after all whose show it is, after all? Rohiniranjan • Dear Sir, It is only micro organisms that will have a longer life over arthropods or milli/centipeds. The fast changing climate and emissions make humans with shields looking like scietific Avatasrs. Insects,I mean UFO's ruling of course a scientific version.Like Man with a Calti Ka Naam gadi is also Chatushpada. The over take or scientific explosion put man behind .so the waning of the homosapiens is the question of time,say distant end of Kaliyuga. Having to be a japanee or Iraquee in the next birth will be a major wish,as in India it is develop..... . " ing " other nations like Korea(except congo) including Iraq,japan and the lattest Afganisthan are having less of history and Nations in making will no doubt emerge further will have a major say in Global matters. China and Congo may still be there what the histories of these countries convey.Of course not even century hold has hopes but yet in baking stage.The cake before it is made is target for many to cut and celebrate.yet the land of Ganga,Jamna may boast of very 5th and 9th house.But drikdrishti theory may further fail these hopes. Exception seems to be the Vikruti Nanam samvatsaram where orderliness is predicted for this nation to progress and bring reforms.Not Certainly women's Reservation Bill nor the debated Nuclear bill of the past. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan dada, Please tell us more about the *drikdrishti* theory you mentioned about towards the end of your message (quoted below). Very early on in my pursuance of astrology, SAMBANDHA in the horoscope became a crucial point of attention for me and that is where SYNTHESIS became such an important point-of-focus. Drishti (when eyes meet) is very synthetic, of course. Rohiniranjan • sir, As all of us Surya Siddhanta has a unque system oc classificcation. like India Meru .........Dakshna dhk bhage....... ...etc.For mundane purpose this is followed by some jyotishis. 2.Basically in Munadane Astrology,others more or less of the Parasara the location /situation of regions ,countries was thought to be based on drik pakshiya drishti.(Disa. /direction) . This resulted in cluster and was lacking clarity to find the correctness of astrological progress vis a vis their destiny/fate/ .So this too has become debatable. 3..Also people hold the view the independence/ liberation day chart too are not meaningful. The analysis for mundane purpose as of now based on conventional model has been revised.Now based the disatnce from equator,and georphical data,a chkra has been drwan and it's traditional as well as scientific importance is yet to be estblishes Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(Dear Sir ji; Pt. Chandra Munni Pathak has an interesting note in his commentary on lalkitab; i don't know how to translate it into English so i am putting it as such in Romanised Hindi; " " 1. Bharat mein grahon ka jyotishiye jyan saurmandal ke grahon se sambhandhit nahin hai, apitu ek aisa sidhanth hai, jisme yeh bataya gaya hai ki kissi bhi prakrtik - aprakritik ikkayion me balrekhaon se bane oorja uttsarjan bindu kaun kaun hain. Saurmandal ke grahon ki pehchan bhi isi sidhant ke tahat ki gayi, isliye inme samanta pratit hoti hai " . Regards Kulbir Bains • Dear Vinay, I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically said that BPHS does not have them. You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote <<< BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. >>> I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " and tried to distort my statement. Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the beginning of this chapter. My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my message because you brought my statements out of context and changed some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's aim. Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave an example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and against Sri Jyoti Star. -VJ • Dear Sir, 1Since nakshtra r basically savya(15) and apasavya(12) based and also on DEHA and Jeeva accordingly some ambiguity is KCD is there.Further nakshtra pada also decides commencement of Dasa .For ex bharani 4th,the order is as mentioned by Shri Chandrsekhar Ji.where as antar dasa also floows same order working out paramyu as 86yrs. 2.Parasara certainly has also taken dasa visleshan based Kalchakradasa. But some how the working out of dasa of KCD has three methods as explained by BVR in his book. It appears,some problem in interpretation lead to differences. Like wise application of KCD for anlysis also there were different views.Some opine if venus is strong in natal chart or based on Moon if strong etc. In KCD dasaa basically proceed by three distinct steps.1.Mandooka2. Markata and 3.Simhavalokana, keeping basically svaya and apasavya clasification of Nakshtras. 3.//4,5,3,2, 1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka?//As per KCD scheme this is Correct. 4. //But then I see you have given something called...//There seems to be typographical mistake. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling 7 March 2010 • I have explained the main problem of KCD in http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ • Vinayji, I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ============ ==== === • Dear Krishnan, I think there is more confusion about Kalchakra dasha than any other dasha simply because though it is called as one of the important dashas, people tend to find more than what is there in it. You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. That is good to see in print but I doubt if it helps. People tend to argue more about what is right than taking pains to read that which is clearly stated. The use of the dasha is simple if one understands it right. As a matter of fact I began penning a book on it, and it is half complete but since I am at present translating one of my own books under direction from Mahamandaleshwar of a respected Akhada, that has taken a back seat. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • <<< You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. >>> This sentence is clearly against me, because I wrote that only the negative Gatis are mentioned in BPHS and positive Gatis are not named. It is not my invention, as Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma falsely charges. He says " I began penning a book on it (KCD) " but seems to be ignorant of the fact that all three gatis mentined in BPHS are bad, but many people have good phases in their lives too. Secondly, BPHS gives many sequences such as 1,2,3,.... which do not come under either of mandooki, markati or simhaavalokana. Hence, there must be more than three gatis and any additional gati must be benefic. Only malefic Durgatis are mentioned in PHS (as gatis). Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma claims to an expert on KCD but is ignorant of this fact as well as of other facts. Recently he refused to accept that KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari and asked me to show the verse. The verse is " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). " I never wrote any independent article of KCD. Recently, I saw a debate between Mr Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao. I found PVR to correct on one point. I wrote something to PVR on that point, and pasted my answer on my website too. It was not a comprehensive article on KCD not. On AD, I did give any detailed analysis, but only some brief comments on the topic which PVR and Mr Rath were discussing. I think there is no need of any new article on KCD because Phaladeepikaa has elaborated it beautifully. Some astrologers are creating unncessary controversies about KCD. Phaladeepikaa is based on BPHS and Chandrashekhar Ji has not read some important editions of BPHS (cf. " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " ). -VJ , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dear Sir, Jyotish is basically the same thing as every one very profoundly and humbly states as vedang.many times we had shared in the forums,that some of the traditional conventional universities in Kasi or kaladi Pryaga or sandipani hav eput in efforts to read through ancient scripts of the seers and contirbuted to the development. Many scholars versatile in english have also made efforts to transalte into other languages.In Mahrashtra,rajsthan kerala,Andhra Pradesh and tamilnadu many writers from the original scripts transalted and made availbel for a common man we certainly we our respects to them and regard them for ever 2.with inter coming up and technology sevral scholars extended their services to Internet .Unfortuanely it all started with metros and now getting enlarged to sevreal other villages through broad band. //go to many other cities who are remote .....You will get to know what Jyotish is.?.. we have very very very learned people and eager to devote time and help normal people to enhance their understanding and comprehension.It takes time to study their views and understand.But between equals might be one or two different views might merge.we also try to read and understand .Intention howver is not to glorify one and disrespect other.i do not think there is any room for such thinking too. Some of the names you have taken have active websites and internet user access and express.It does not meant that they question some body's outstanding knowledge and contribution.Shri VJ and Shri KCD are scholostic nature and explain any thing with ease.To follow we need however to make more efforts. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Mon, 3/8/10, Astro Talk <astro.talk wrote: Astro Talk <astro.talk Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Monday, March 8, 2010, 4:12 PM  // Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalo fastrology. com/article. php?article_ id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. //  RCS, do you know who he is, he takes lecture at Sampoorna Nand University, BHU, KCD university etc etc….  Actually on internet all are frogs so everybody's world finishes to Sanjay Rath, PVR, K N Rao, B V Raman.Internet and metro cities dont cover whole India, go to many other cities who are remote to internet like Varanasi, Patna,Gaya.. .You will get to know what Jyotish is...  What link you are showing... K N Rao, He is astrologer??  Vinay Jha is son of 7 timer MP and one of the founder member of Communism in India(Jyoti Basu was also one of them)  So, dont show all those things to him.  Pawan Maurya  --- On Mon, 8/3/10, Swami_rcs <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Swami_rcs <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Monday, 8 March, 2010, 8:27 PM  Dear VJ, Nameste. I must have avoided writing this mail. I do not post mails here but read only for getting insights in some serious topics because, this list has some real scholars like you and few others. Your posting that initiated thread on KCD had no previous reference to background that you now have disclosed / proposed concerning debate between PVR and Rath. For your information there is no debate but yes there is monologue on part of PVR in response to one mail on KCD. Perhaps they have not met for years together. Any way your answer is arrogant to my questions but that's fine and displays attitude you have learned, it is your choice. Now let us see few statements you have made. 1. The method of AD has already been described with example. I revisited your webpage and found none, Please check if article is published with some part missing. 2. I am surprised with your statement " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone " .. Late Santhanam has considered slokas of Seetaram jha reliable, He also maintained that Version of Dev chand Jha was equally reliable, but for minor variation in concepts although both the texts originally are reconstructed. Various people have fancy about authencity of BPHS but Concepts of KCD are not figment of imagination however interpretation of slokas or reconstruction could be at variation. I do not know why you have chosen to go in tangent instead of answering simple question posed by me and later doubts raised to be cleared By Mr Chandrasekhar. Evidently you have not understood the questions that were asked, asking question showed your postings are cared by people. The next possibility is you know KCD like a pundit but does not know how it is derived and thus has evaded answers like pundits do. 3. The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. I am not a Sanskrit scholar, But I read first time KCD from version of Ganesh Dutt Pathak around 27 years back along with description in Phaldeepika and Jatak parijaat with commentary by Pt Gopesh kumar Oza. Having no jyotish guru and being busy in government job as an executive I had little time to devote and KCD was beyond correct grasp. Around 1990 TOA carried article from Late Sri Santhanam and also Article BY Sh K.N.Rao With Some Viveki, That roused my interest but I found Methods advocated by Them did not work. Then came Book Of Dr B.V.Ramn. I shall not make any comments. What I have quoted Is from English versions made available In name Of Santhanam ( as Vol II has been not been completed by him before his demise except for rough draft) and OF GC Sharma .About AD slokas There is a difference of Two sloka . Mr Chandra shekhar has quoted reference from Reliable early published BPHS ,but no one can force to change once opinion, Of what one likes to hold right or wrong. You have your own theory and you are entitled to hold to it. 4. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. I did not ask computation it is mentally calculable. My question was how you work out AD? Say in case of sub- periodization do you teach AD remain within the same cycle for the dasa in KCD throughout. and its related issues. 5. Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. No comments needed. Teacher/ scribe have to be clear about subject before teaching/ writing the subject. 6. is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, Did you check in which chand these verses are, type of Sanskrit used therein. Age of Sanskrit if constructed is post parasar or preparshar. If you are expert in both these areas your observations may carry weight, not otherwise. Failing on my part does not arise for I have not learnt above but have idea of secret behind these limited verses on AD .They are linked to Navamsa- lords. What I am unsure is their correct calculation pattern hece my respose and query Was made. 7. . This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. Once upon a time I installed This Software and found clumsy. Before I could work out and check My hard disc collapsed, Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalo fastrology. com/article. php?article_ id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. Plaese forgive me if my this mail contents do evoke unpleasant emotions. With respects to all participants to this thread. RC ***********summary of correspondance ************ ***8 To All : See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ 6-3-2010 Dear VJ, Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD is very important. With regards. RCS • To RCS : The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence " . It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD has already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. -VJ • Dear Vinay, I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called alachakraantardasha aphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am sure you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. So RC ji is right. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Mr Chandrashekhar, Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : " Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my article properly. BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, but you helped him out. Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. PVR Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after which I provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out the original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to notice, including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, The refrain sounds familiar. Earlier too you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth about how astrology must be done or calculated. Now please understand that I am not quoting you but paraphrasing based on the sense I get and I hope others who are observing and experiencing you on internet might have made similar observations too. It is pretty depressing to see such collective resistance towards one person (you!). You are a wise person, a professor, a yogi and astrologer. In other words someone well-equipped to figure out why this dissonant chords between your work and the internet consumers/users! Once again, I am not telling you what you must do (I know you are a big boy!) -- but was just wondering why this is happening or rather occurring to you! And you have never been abusive or unreasonable in your expressions either! Wonder what is going on! Very intriguing.. .! Best regards, Rohiniranjan • Rohiniranjan Ji, Your recent comments are simply misplaced and insulting ( " you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth " ). You do not know me, mainly because I am not interested in making myself known. Majority of my articles have been published by others, with my consent. None of the nine panchangas made by me carries my name in editor boards, and none of those editors do anything in my panchangas. I have guided four PhDs in four subjects, but refused to get mine. My consistent refusal to get recognition is miscontrued by you as a sign of " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for failing to get recognized. Recently I tore away (not in anger) certificates of recognition awarded to me at astrological conferences at Patna and Allahabad. Lust for Fame is poison to me. I consistently refused to upload my software on internet for long years, because I knew the idiosyncracy of a majority of internet astrologers. But this prejudiced majority should not prevent the open minded minority from using what I know is correct. It is not my belief, but the result of long years of tests. You know many things but one : the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. The world must function properly. -VJ • I feel saddned that you choose to take my words as insulting. I was basing my statements on what I had been observing based on what you were writing publicle and privately through internet. Obviously, all I can know of you is what I see on the internet. What I wrote, therefore, should not reasonably be taken as indicative of your many wonderful, and unique qualities and motivations etc such as your academic achievements, panchaangs etc that you have told us about quite a few times., etc. As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world – we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering and probably as we move towards the date which many are apocalypticly warning (21-12-2012) , we will be facing increasing challenges and warnings against the well-being of the earth and its dwellers. One worry less is one sigh of relief gained, I suppose. Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer • <<< As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world -- we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering.>> > It is not what I said. My words were " the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. " Any revolutionary change in fundamental beliefs results in temporary upheavals and obstacles in proper functioning. This is what I meant. Besides, I have no power to remove materialism from the minds of those who believe physical planets are deities and therefore any alternative software must not be tested. Men cannot be changed unless they are ready to change themselves. Persons with strong Saturn are more difficult to change, perhaps due to slow motion of Saturn. But if Saturn is exalted, it results in positive change in the long run, after initial pitfalls. You are wrongly thanking me for preservation of this world. I decided in 1971 not to become a baby-boomer, while you have added this adjective to your name in this message ( " Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer " ). After a century ot two, no one will remember me, but you will be remembered, at least by your babies & c. It is for the benefit of babies of persons like you that I worked so hard. If my work is wasted and destroyed and forgotten, it will not harm me in any respect. The only difference you have with me is due to the fact that I found, much later in my life, that physical astronomy gives worse astrological results than Suryasiddhanta. Before this finding, I had equal or perhaps more faith in the astrological validity of physical planetary motions. Had I retained my earlier opinion, you would have found no difference. You sincerely used words like " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for me. But such traits are results of expectations. I had no expectation. Hence, there was no question of disappointment. The whole world is taught physical astronomy, formally as well as informally. Even many of those who have to study Suryasiddhanta do not comprehend it properly. Hence, a software based on a misunderstood text could not become popular. Moreover, I am using outdated Visual Basic version which is not allowing many users to install Kundalee on their machines. You also know these issues well. Then, why you guessed I am " disappointed " ? I knew the outcome beforehand, and that is why I refrained from launching Kundalee on web for years ; Kundalee is still not fit for web (it contains outdated DLL files). You have question thrice why I am treated so. Here is the answer : Presently, the planets of MD, AD and PD in my horoscope have bitter enmical aspects on 10th house. In my birthchart too, I have lord of 11th Sun sitting in 4th (house of Suhrid), which makes my " friends " often unfriendly towards me. Hence, I must not get recognition or honour for my work. Due to my way of life, bonds of horoscope are not hard on me, and I get recognition wherever I go. But I try to keep away from honours & c because I know if I stick to this World I will have to pay a heavy price by being engulfed by it in the form of next birth/births. I have no grudge against you. I can even tolerate abuses from those who have contributed something worthwhile to others. I do not mean you have ever abused anyone, including me, I only mean that you have really contributed something good to society at large, and that is your real worth to me. It does not matter to me what is your opinion about me or about my work. Not even 1% on my work is on internet, hence you do not know my work. Bulk of my written works are not in astrology but in comparative linguistics of Indo-European languages (mainly concerning the dating of Rgveda through linguistic means), which I never published in book form but gave parts of it in lectures and some articles and emails only. Sincerely, -VJ • Thank you very much Vinay_jee for opening your heart on this forum where I know you are indeed respected and where the moderator has publicly assured you several times that you will always be listened too, and from my lowly ant's perspective you have been! I use the metaphor of 'ant' from time to time, not to portray veiled arrogance or sham-humility but to me, ants represent the 'grihasta' and worldly reality of the very same DIVINITY that also produces monks and sadhus and sages and awatars! The same MA and BABA who create all this magic and whose BABIES we all are: Grihasta and Brahmachari! It is for the BABIES of those CELESTIAL PARENTS that we all must work towards & that includes the grihasta and the brahmachari and the rest of the fauna and flora! I KNOW that the YUGAS will bring pralayas and we all shall return to where we started and ACTUALLY never left! That is what to me personally has always meant SATURN's message and SATURN'S BLESSINGS! STAMBHAN (of any planet) perhaps in transit or even in natal represents SATURN, while atichara represents some other astrological- factor... ! Saturn is that KHOONTI (hindi Khoonti and not bangla khoonti!) to which the goat (astrological reality starting with aries/mesha) is tied to with the illusive rope of free-will, as Thakur Paramahansa' s allegory reminds us. I have always wondered as to why RamKrishna used the goat as the animal in the metaphor! Goats are known to have an innate GIFT for chewing incessantly! What if they decide to chew on the rope that tie them fatalistically to SATURN? Emancipation can come to GOATS too, can it not? I hope the GOATs are listening? I mean CHEWING!! Regards, Rohiniranjan • [Rohini Da, Grihasthas are not ants. All other ashramas depend on them. While sanyaasis, fed by grihasthas, look after moksha, Dharma in this world is maintained by Grihasthas. Unfortunately, most of the grihasthas in kaliyuga have become grihastas (grih-asta : combust in the home). -VJ • Vinay_jee, As far as combustion is concerned, often touched upon earlier -- a new question since the earliers remained unanswered: Does the Sun becomes combust when each evening he goes ASTA in the west? I had heard another version too! Griha -- Sthaa When the griha comes to stay (comes back HOME) griha-sthaa! SATURN again! Chores and hard repetitive work, day in and day out! Like the lowly ants (grihasthas! ) need to finish before they get access to their computers ;-) Count your blessings... ! Rohiniranjan • Sir, The ongoing discussion and the initiative taken to elaborate Kalachakra dasa needs to be complemented. AS most of us show eagerness to apply mostly the Chara Dasa or Vimshottari though KCD application seems to work better in some cases(b4 and after war times) found to be more precise.Few people actually make effort to apply KCD and in this context Shri Vinay Ji efforts are laudible. His software too should enhance the enthusiasm as the development was made after thorough study of classsiclas, though it is mainly oriented towards surya siddhantic principles.Unfortun ately my efforts to load and use on window Vista never gave me the personal satisfaction to understand the efficacy of software.Some of our JT members,however endorsed compliments. The criticism for and against these initiative of Shri VJ need not be be taken with grin as they r not meant towards personal efforts nor to take with grin.Certainly his contribution to educate and develop astrology in the present times shall definetely help those worried about apocalypse relating to 21st Dec. and remove all doubts that the order of the Nature is very much stable and nothing to apprehend catastophy. The recent unexpected events in chile,Japan and impending tectonic movements it is evident the world is under transformation. (but disintegration? )This feeling emerges more when people's hard earned money does not also seems to be secure. Be the Mars in Cancer,Ketu in Gemini aspect ed by Saturn in Virgo,with exalted venus in Pisces.Religious sentiments certainly getting brow beaten.and the soothsayer known as Devaguru seems to be feeble though he is out from debilitation but shadowed with Guru Chandal Yoga in rahu's Stabhisha. The worried worls need some sigh of relief and is certainly a hope that can come through with the efforts being made by our members and encouraging members from time to time.The benifit out of these crtical discussions Iam sure members will take them in right earnes and laud all those with penchant to do write some thing different from routine and explore all the past base and make the knowledge reachable to common man. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan Ji, I am trying to update my software making platforms. I live in a remote place and I get pirated things at company prices. Hence, it is taking too much time. Earlier, I had worked with physical astronomy, which was my first love since I was 11 years old. I gave it up in astrology nearly 12 years ago when I got irrefutable proofs of " astrological " fitness of Suryasiddhanta. The world is certainly heading towards a major sea change (first khanda-kalpa of present Kaliyuga), but it is not a Doomsday. I think the worst is over and we are heading towards better days. World population will decrease henceforth and Kaalachakra is moving backwards : from Japan to Korea, then to China and finally to India's rise in the raashi of Vrish, and from USA-Canada to Western Europe, then to south-east Europe (Rome, Greece) and then to Egypt and Sudan in the Simha raashi. This Drikpakshiya theory has not fully survived. • I ask this, because some of the things you wrote, Vinay_jee, struck a chord! So is it the COUNTRIES (China, Korea, India, Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan and their political situations and economies etc...) that are going to progress or will the human-individuals who may be Indian today but may be born in Japan or Iraq, in their very next lifetime! Or perhaps insects shall rule the universe, yet again!! Something tells me that there is going to be a next lifetime -- several perhaps because KALIYUGA is not fully done yet! What do you think? Rohiniranjan • Human beings will fare according to theor own individual karmas, while countries will fare according to fixed laws of mundane jyotisha. During my school days, I wondered why most of the rich persons are born in rich countries ! It is only the beginning of Kaliyuga. Only 5110 years have elapsed. 426890 years are yet to come, during which there will be nine more socalled Doomsdays. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, Yes humanity still has a fair amount of time! Even by Sri Yukteshwar Giri's reckoning which baffles many -- as does the ayanamsha that 'astronomical books' were following, as also the 54 " annual rate of progression that he shared with us all in The Holy Science -- primarily written for a specific purpose in 1894 -- as clearly stated by Yogananda's Gurujee. In fact, even if we all who are chattering away wisely here and elsewhere were to be suddenly decimated into our 'elements' C, N, O, S and a bunch of other pieces that belong to the periodic table, would that put CREATION to an end? Or CREATIVITY.. .? Sometimes the Puppeteer (whose performance it really is -- and not of the puppet!) is so skilled, like some parents are -- that the puppet really carries the show, and never manages to figure out who was pulling the strings and who was really in control! Either way, the PARENT/PUPPETEER wins because after all whose show it is, after all? Rohiniranjan • Dear Sir, It is only micro organisms that will have a longer life over arthropods or milli/centipeds. The fast changing climate and emissions make humans with shields looking like scietific Avatasrs. Insects,I mean UFO's ruling of course a scientific version.Like Man with a Calti Ka Naam gadi is also Chatushpada. The over take or scientific explosion put man behind .so the waning of the homosapiens is the question of time,say distant end of Kaliyuga. Having to be a japanee or Iraquee in the next birth will be a major wish,as in India it is develop..... . " ing " other nations like Korea(except congo) including Iraq,japan and the lattest Afganisthan are having less of history and Nations in making will no doubt emerge further will have a major say in Global matters. China and Congo may still be there what the histories of these countries convey.Of course not even century hold has hopes but yet in baking stage.The cake before it is made is target for many to cut and celebrate.yet the land of Ganga,Jamna may boast of very 5th and 9th house.But drikdrishti theory may further fail these hopes. Exception seems to be the Vikruti Nanam samvatsaram where orderliness is predicted for this nation to progress and bring reforms.Not Certainly women's Reservation Bill nor the debated Nuclear bill of the past. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan dada, Please tell us more about the *drikdrishti* theory you mentioned about towards the end of your message (quoted below). Very early on in my pursuance of astrology, SAMBANDHA in the horoscope became a crucial point of attention for me and that is where SYNTHESIS became such an important point-of-focus. Drishti (when eyes meet) is very synthetic, of course. Rohiniranjan • sir, As all of us Surya Siddhanta has a unque system oc classificcation. like India Meru .........Dakshna dhk bhage....... ...etc.For mundane purpose this is followed by some jyotishis. 2.Basically in Munadane Astrology,others more or less of the Parasara the location /situation of regions ,countries was thought to be based on drik pakshiya drishti.(Disa. /direction) . This resulted in cluster and was lacking clarity to find the correctness of astrological progress vis a vis their destiny/fate/ .So this too has become debatable. 3..Also people hold the view the independence/ liberation day chart too are not meaningful. The analysis for mundane purpose as of now based on conventional model has been revised.Now based the disatnce from equator,and georphical data,a chkra has been drwan and it's traditional as well as scientific importance is yet to be estblishes Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(Dear Sir ji; Pt. Chandra Munni Pathak has an interesting note in his commentary on lalkitab; i don't know how to translate it into English so i am putting it as such in Romanised Hindi; " " 1. Bharat mein grahon ka jyotishiye jyan saurmandal ke grahon se sambhandhit nahin hai, apitu ek aisa sidhanth hai, jisme yeh bataya gaya hai ki kissi bhi prakrtik - aprakritik ikkayion me balrekhaon se bane oorja uttsarjan bindu kaun kaun hain. Saurmandal ke grahon ki pehchan bhi isi sidhant ke tahat ki gayi, isliye inme samanta pratit hoti hai " . Regards Kulbir Bains • Dear Vinay, I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically said that BPHS does not have them. You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote <<< BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. >>> I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " and tried to distort my statement. Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the beginning of this chapter. My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my message because you brought my statements out of context and changed some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's aim. Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave an example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and against Sri Jyoti Star. -VJ • Dear Sir, 1Since nakshtra r basically savya(15) and apasavya(12) based and also on DEHA and Jeeva accordingly some ambiguity is KCD is there.Further nakshtra pada also decides commencement of Dasa .For ex bharani 4th,the order is as mentioned by Shri Chandrsekhar Ji.where as antar dasa also floows same order working out paramyu as 86yrs. 2.Parasara certainly has also taken dasa visleshan based Kalchakradasa. But some how the working out of dasa of KCD has three methods as explained by BVR in his book. It appears,some problem in interpretation lead to differences. Like wise application of KCD for anlysis also there were different views.Some opine if venus is strong in natal chart or based on Moon if strong etc. In KCD dasaa basically proceed by three distinct steps.1.Mandooka2. Markata and 3.Simhavalokana, keeping basically svaya and apasavya clasification of Nakshtras. 3.//4,5,3,2, 1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka?//As per KCD scheme this is Correct. 4. //But then I see you have given something called...//There seems to be typographical mistake. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling 7 March 2010 • I have explained the main problem of KCD in http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ • Vinayji, I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ============ ==== === • Dear Krishnan, I think there is more confusion about Kalchakra dasha than any other dasha simply because though it is called as one of the important dashas, people tend to find more than what is there in it. You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. That is good to see in print but I doubt if it helps. People tend to argue more about what is right than taking pains to read that which is clearly stated. The use of the dasha is simple if one understands it right. As a matter of fact I began penning a book on it, and it is half complete but since I am at present translating one of my own books under direction from Mahamandaleshwar of a respected Akhada, that has taken a back seat. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • <<< You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. >>> This sentence is clearly against me, because I wrote that only the negative Gatis are mentioned in BPHS and positive Gatis are not named. It is not my invention, as Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma falsely charges. He says " I began penning a book on it (KCD) " but seems to be ignorant of the fact that all three gatis mentined in BPHS are bad, but many people have good phases in their lives too. Secondly, BPHS gives many sequences such as 1,2,3,.... which do not come under either of mandooki, markati or simhaavalokana. Hence, there must be more than three gatis and any additional gati must be benefic. Only malefic Durgatis are mentioned in PHS (as gatis). Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma claims to an expert on KCD but is ignorant of this fact as well as of other facts. Recently he refused to accept that KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari and asked me to show the verse. The verse is " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). " I never wrote any independent article of KCD. Recently, I saw a debate between Mr Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao. I found PVR to correct on one point. I wrote something to PVR on that point, and pasted my answer on my website too. It was not a comprehensive article on KCD not. On AD, I did give any detailed analysis, but only some brief comments on the topic which PVR and Mr Rath were discussing. I think there is no need of any new article on KCD because Phaladeepikaa has elaborated it beautifully. Some astrologers are creating unncessary controversies about KCD. Phaladeepikaa is based on BPHS and Chandrashekhar Ji has not read some important editions of BPHS (cf. " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " ). -VJ , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Sir, The discussions at length and clarifications are really most approapriate.In fact time for detailed study of original texts during active employment is problem.But late Shri Sanatanams mostly adopted from original versions has been brought well. BVR too through his books has not taken up exhaustively but his Astrological Magzine made as separate topics and clarified very significantly.Except for academic purposes,KCD may not be very handy for proper analysis. KCD application has been refrianed except for very limited purposes,to the reasons cited by you.No doubt KCD has a very good classical base but the consistency of the results matter very much. KCD suggests for exhaustive approach by Nakshtra pada wise and gives Main dasa.when however it comes to antardasa seems to loose track //KCD are not figment of imagination however interpretation of slokas or reconstruction could be at variation.// Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Mon, 3/8/10, Swami_rcs <swami.rcs wrote: Swami_rcs <swami.rcs Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Monday, March 8, 2010, 3:27 PM  Dear VJ, Nameste. I must have avoided writing this mail. I do not post mails here but read only for getting insights in some serious topics because, this list has some real scholars like you and few others. Your posting that initiated thread on KCD had no previous reference to background that you now have disclosed / proposed concerning debate between PVR and Rath. For your information there is no debate but yes there is monologue on part of PVR in response to one mail on KCD. Perhaps they have not met for years together. Any way your answer is arrogant to my questions but that's fine and displays attitude you have learned, it is your choice. Now let us see few statements you have made. 1. The method of AD has already been described with example. I revisited your webpage and found none, Please check if article is published with some part missing. 2. I am surprised with your statement " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone " .. Late Santhanam has considered slokas of Seetaram jha reliable, He also maintained that Version of Dev chand Jha was equally reliable, but for minor variation in concepts although both the texts originally are reconstructed. Various people have fancy about authencity of BPHS but Concepts of KCD are not figment of imagination however interpretation of slokas or reconstruction could be at variation. I do not know why you have chosen to go in tangent instead of answering simple question posed by me and later doubts raised to be cleared By Mr Chandrasekhar. Evidently you have not understood the questions that were asked, asking question showed your postings are cared by people. The next possibility is you know KCD like a pundit but does not know how it is derived and thus has evaded answers like pundits do. 3. The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. I am not a Sanskrit scholar, But I read first time KCD from version of Ganesh Dutt Pathak around 27 years back along with description in Phaldeepika and Jatak parijaat with commentary by Pt Gopesh kumar Oza. Having no jyotish guru and being busy in government job as an executive I had little time to devote and KCD was beyond correct grasp. Around 1990 TOA carried article from Late Sri Santhanam and also Article BY Sh K.N.Rao With Some Viveki, That roused my interest but I found Methods advocated by Them did not work. Then came Book Of Dr B.V.Ramn. I shall not make any comments. What I have quoted Is from English versions made available In name Of Santhanam ( as Vol II has been not been completed by him before his demise except for rough draft) and OF GC Sharma .About AD slokas There is a difference of Two sloka . Mr Chandra shekhar has quoted reference from Reliable early published BPHS ,but no one can force to change once opinion, Of what one likes to hold right or wrong. You have your own theory and you are entitled to hold to it. 4. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. I did not ask computation it is mentally calculable. My question was how you work out AD? Say in case of sub- periodization do you teach AD remain within the same cycle for the dasa in KCD throughout. and its related issues. 5. Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. No comments needed. Teacher/ scribe have to be clear about subject before teaching/ writing the subject. 6. is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, Did you check in which chand these verses are, type of Sanskrit used therein. Age of Sanskrit if constructed is post parasar or preparshar. If you are expert in both these areas your observations may carry weight, not otherwise. Failing on my part does not arise for I have not learnt above but have idea of secret behind these limited verses on AD .They are linked to Navamsa- lords. What I am unsure is their correct calculation pattern hece my respose and query Was made. 7. . This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. Once upon a time I installed This Software and found clumsy. Before I could work out and check My hard disc collapsed, Many SW has KCD scheme implemented, I am not sure None appears to have same calculations. Please understand I do not enter into controversies. Look what K.N.Rao has Said. http://www.journalo fastrology. com/article. php?article_ id=274 there are many astro-viruses circulating who do not discuss technically and academically but attack each other gracelessly showing their *********** Hope You do not fulfill such a disrespectable definition. Plaese forgive me if my this mail contents do evoke unpleasant emotions. With respects to all participants to this thread. RC ***********summary of correspondance ************ ***8 To All : See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ 6-3-2010 Dear VJ, Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD is very important. With regards. RCS • To RCS : The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence " . It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD has already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. -VJ • Dear Vinay, I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called alachakraantardasha aphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am sure you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. So RC ji is right. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Mr Chandrashekhar, Without reading my article in which I described the method of working out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : " Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my article properly. BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick up this point, but you helped him out. Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. PVR Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after which I provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out the original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to notice, including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in Kundalee Software. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, The refrain sounds familiar. Earlier too you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth about how astrology must be done or calculated. Now please understand that I am not quoting you but paraphrasing based on the sense I get and I hope others who are observing and experiencing you on internet might have made similar observations too. It is pretty depressing to see such collective resistance towards one person (you!). You are a wise person, a professor, a yogi and astrologer. In other words someone well-equipped to figure out why this dissonant chords between your work and the internet consumers/users! Once again, I am not telling you what you must do (I know you are a big boy!) -- but was just wondering why this is happening or rather occurring to you! And you have never been abusive or unreasonable in your expressions either! Wonder what is going on! Very intriguing.. .! Best regards, Rohiniranjan • Rohiniranjan Ji, Your recent comments are simply misplaced and insulting ( " you have consistently voiced your disappointment, chagrin, frustration that people (in general) do not read your articles, do not try out your software, do not listen to the truth " ). You do not know me, mainly because I am not interested in making myself known. Majority of my articles have been published by others, with my consent. None of the nine panchangas made by me carries my name in editor boards, and none of those editors do anything in my panchangas. I have guided four PhDs in four subjects, but refused to get mine. My consistent refusal to get recognition is miscontrued by you as a sign of " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for failing to get recognized. Recently I tore away (not in anger) certificates of recognition awarded to me at astrological conferences at Patna and Allahabad. Lust for Fame is poison to me. I consistently refused to upload my software on internet for long years, because I knew the idiosyncracy of a majority of internet astrologers. But this prejudiced majority should not prevent the open minded minority from using what I know is correct. It is not my belief, but the result of long years of tests. You know many things but one : the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. The world must function properly. -VJ • I feel saddned that you choose to take my words as insulting. I was basing my statements on what I had been observing based on what you were writing publicle and privately through internet. Obviously, all I can know of you is what I see on the internet. What I wrote, therefore, should not reasonably be taken as indicative of your many wonderful, and unique qualities and motivations etc such as your academic achievements, panchaangs etc that you have told us about quite a few times., etc. As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world – we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering and probably as we move towards the date which many are apocalypticly warning (21-12-2012) , we will be facing increasing challenges and warnings against the well-being of the earth and its dwellers. One worry less is one sigh of relief gained, I suppose. Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer • <<< As to the popularity of your software resulting in detriment of the world -- we all can only humbly thank you for working towards the preservation of this world which is already suffering.>> > It is not what I said. My words were " the world will cease to function properly if Kundalee Software becomes widely popular. " Any revolutionary change in fundamental beliefs results in temporary upheavals and obstacles in proper functioning. This is what I meant. Besides, I have no power to remove materialism from the minds of those who believe physical planets are deities and therefore any alternative software must not be tested. Men cannot be changed unless they are ready to change themselves. Persons with strong Saturn are more difficult to change, perhaps due to slow motion of Saturn. But if Saturn is exalted, it results in positive change in the long run, after initial pitfalls. You are wrongly thanking me for preservation of this world. I decided in 1971 not to become a baby-boomer, while you have added this adjective to your name in this message ( " Rohiniranjan Baby-boomer " ). After a century ot two, no one will remember me, but you will be remembered, at least by your babies & c. It is for the benefit of babies of persons like you that I worked so hard. If my work is wasted and destroyed and forgotten, it will not harm me in any respect. The only difference you have with me is due to the fact that I found, much later in my life, that physical astronomy gives worse astrological results than Suryasiddhanta. Before this finding, I had equal or perhaps more faith in the astrological validity of physical planetary motions. Had I retained my earlier opinion, you would have found no difference. You sincerely used words like " disappointment, chagrin, frustration " for me. But such traits are results of expectations. I had no expectation. Hence, there was no question of disappointment. The whole world is taught physical astronomy, formally as well as informally. Even many of those who have to study Suryasiddhanta do not comprehend it properly. Hence, a software based on a misunderstood text could not become popular. Moreover, I am using outdated Visual Basic version which is not allowing many users to install Kundalee on their machines. You also know these issues well. Then, why you guessed I am " disappointed " ? I knew the outcome beforehand, and that is why I refrained from launching Kundalee on web for years ; Kundalee is still not fit for web (it contains outdated DLL files). You have question thrice why I am treated so. Here is the answer : Presently, the planets of MD, AD and PD in my horoscope have bitter enmical aspects on 10th house. In my birthchart too, I have lord of 11th Sun sitting in 4th (house of Suhrid), which makes my " friends " often unfriendly towards me. Hence, I must not get recognition or honour for my work. Due to my way of life, bonds of horoscope are not hard on me, and I get recognition wherever I go. But I try to keep away from honours & c because I know if I stick to this World I will have to pay a heavy price by being engulfed by it in the form of next birth/births. I have no grudge against you. I can even tolerate abuses from those who have contributed something worthwhile to others. I do not mean you have ever abused anyone, including me, I only mean that you have really contributed something good to society at large, and that is your real worth to me. It does not matter to me what is your opinion about me or about my work. Not even 1% on my work is on internet, hence you do not know my work. Bulk of my written works are not in astrology but in comparative linguistics of Indo-European languages (mainly concerning the dating of Rgveda through linguistic means), which I never published in book form but gave parts of it in lectures and some articles and emails only. Sincerely, -VJ • Thank you very much Vinay_jee for opening your heart on this forum where I know you are indeed respected and where the moderator has publicly assured you several times that you will always be listened too, and from my lowly ant's perspective you have been! I use the metaphor of 'ant' from time to time, not to portray veiled arrogance or sham-humility but to me, ants represent the 'grihasta' and worldly reality of the very same DIVINITY that also produces monks and sadhus and sages and awatars! The same MA and BABA who create all this magic and whose BABIES we all are: Grihasta and Brahmachari! It is for the BABIES of those CELESTIAL PARENTS that we all must work towards & that includes the grihasta and the brahmachari and the rest of the fauna and flora! I KNOW that the YUGAS will bring pralayas and we all shall return to where we started and ACTUALLY never left! That is what to me personally has always meant SATURN's message and SATURN'S BLESSINGS! STAMBHAN (of any planet) perhaps in transit or even in natal represents SATURN, while atichara represents some other astrological- factor... ! Saturn is that KHOONTI (hindi Khoonti and not bangla khoonti!) to which the goat (astrological reality starting with aries/mesha) is tied to with the illusive rope of free-will, as Thakur Paramahansa' s allegory reminds us. I have always wondered as to why RamKrishna used the goat as the animal in the metaphor! Goats are known to have an innate GIFT for chewing incessantly! What if they decide to chew on the rope that tie them fatalistically to SATURN? Emancipation can come to GOATS too, can it not? I hope the GOATs are listening? I mean CHEWING!! Regards, Rohiniranjan • [Rohini Da, Grihasthas are not ants. All other ashramas depend on them. While sanyaasis, fed by grihasthas, look after moksha, Dharma in this world is maintained by Grihasthas. Unfortunately, most of the grihasthas in kaliyuga have become grihastas (grih-asta : combust in the home). -VJ • Vinay_jee, As far as combustion is concerned, often touched upon earlier -- a new question since the earliers remained unanswered: Does the Sun becomes combust when each evening he goes ASTA in the west? I had heard another version too! Griha -- Sthaa When the griha comes to stay (comes back HOME) griha-sthaa! SATURN again! Chores and hard repetitive work, day in and day out! Like the lowly ants (grihasthas! ) need to finish before they get access to their computers ;-) Count your blessings... ! Rohiniranjan • Sir, The ongoing discussion and the initiative taken to elaborate Kalachakra dasa needs to be complemented. AS most of us show eagerness to apply mostly the Chara Dasa or Vimshottari though KCD application seems to work better in some cases(b4 and after war times) found to be more precise.Few people actually make effort to apply KCD and in this context Shri Vinay Ji efforts are laudible. His software too should enhance the enthusiasm as the development was made after thorough study of classsiclas, though it is mainly oriented towards surya siddhantic principles.Unfortun ately my efforts to load and use on window Vista never gave me the personal satisfaction to understand the efficacy of software.Some of our JT members,however endorsed compliments. The criticism for and against these initiative of Shri VJ need not be be taken with grin as they r not meant towards personal efforts nor to take with grin.Certainly his contribution to educate and develop astrology in the present times shall definetely help those worried about apocalypse relating to 21st Dec. and remove all doubts that the order of the Nature is very much stable and nothing to apprehend catastophy. The recent unexpected events in chile,Japan and impending tectonic movements it is evident the world is under transformation. (but disintegration? )This feeling emerges more when people's hard earned money does not also seems to be secure. Be the Mars in Cancer,Ketu in Gemini aspect ed by Saturn in Virgo,with exalted venus in Pisces.Religious sentiments certainly getting brow beaten.and the soothsayer known as Devaguru seems to be feeble though he is out from debilitation but shadowed with Guru Chandal Yoga in rahu's Stabhisha. The worried worls need some sigh of relief and is certainly a hope that can come through with the efforts being made by our members and encouraging members from time to time.The benifit out of these crtical discussions Iam sure members will take them in right earnes and laud all those with penchant to do write some thing different from routine and explore all the past base and make the knowledge reachable to common man. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan Ji, I am trying to update my software making platforms. I live in a remote place and I get pirated things at company prices. Hence, it is taking too much time. Earlier, I had worked with physical astronomy, which was my first love since I was 11 years old. I gave it up in astrology nearly 12 years ago when I got irrefutable proofs of " astrological " fitness of Suryasiddhanta. The world is certainly heading towards a major sea change (first khanda-kalpa of present Kaliyuga), but it is not a Doomsday. I think the worst is over and we are heading towards better days. World population will decrease henceforth and Kaalachakra is moving backwards : from Japan to Korea, then to China and finally to India's rise in the raashi of Vrish, and from USA-Canada to Western Europe, then to south-east Europe (Rome, Greece) and then to Egypt and Sudan in the Simha raashi. This Drikpakshiya theory has not fully survived. • I ask this, because some of the things you wrote, Vinay_jee, struck a chord! So is it the COUNTRIES (China, Korea, India, Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan and their political situations and economies etc...) that are going to progress or will the human-individuals who may be Indian today but may be born in Japan or Iraq, in their very next lifetime! Or perhaps insects shall rule the universe, yet again!! Something tells me that there is going to be a next lifetime -- several perhaps because KALIYUGA is not fully done yet! What do you think? Rohiniranjan • Human beings will fare according to theor own individual karmas, while countries will fare according to fixed laws of mundane jyotisha. During my school days, I wondered why most of the rich persons are born in rich countries ! It is only the beginning of Kaliyuga. Only 5110 years have elapsed. 426890 years are yet to come, during which there will be nine more socalled Doomsdays. -VJ • Dear Vinay_jee, Yes humanity still has a fair amount of time! Even by Sri Yukteshwar Giri's reckoning which baffles many -- as does the ayanamsha that 'astronomical books' were following, as also the 54 " annual rate of progression that he shared with us all in The Holy Science -- primarily written for a specific purpose in 1894 -- as clearly stated by Yogananda's Gurujee. In fact, even if we all who are chattering away wisely here and elsewhere were to be suddenly decimated into our 'elements' C, N, O, S and a bunch of other pieces that belong to the periodic table, would that put CREATION to an end? Or CREATIVITY.. .? Sometimes the Puppeteer (whose performance it really is -- and not of the puppet!) is so skilled, like some parents are -- that the puppet really carries the show, and never manages to figure out who was pulling the strings and who was really in control! Either way, the PARENT/PUPPETEER wins because after all whose show it is, after all? Rohiniranjan • Dear Sir, It is only micro organisms that will have a longer life over arthropods or milli/centipeds. The fast changing climate and emissions make humans with shields looking like scietific Avatasrs. Insects,I mean UFO's ruling of course a scientific version.Like Man with a Calti Ka Naam gadi is also Chatushpada. The over take or scientific explosion put man behind .so the waning of the homosapiens is the question of time,say distant end of Kaliyuga. Having to be a japanee or Iraquee in the next birth will be a major wish,as in India it is develop..... . " ing " other nations like Korea(except congo) including Iraq,japan and the lattest Afganisthan are having less of history and Nations in making will no doubt emerge further will have a major say in Global matters. China and Congo may still be there what the histories of these countries convey.Of course not even century hold has hopes but yet in baking stage.The cake before it is made is target for many to cut and celebrate.yet the land of Ganga,Jamna may boast of very 5th and 9th house.But drikdrishti theory may further fail these hopes. Exception seems to be the Vikruti Nanam samvatsaram where orderliness is predicted for this nation to progress and bring reforms.Not Certainly women's Reservation Bill nor the debated Nuclear bill of the past. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma • Krishnan dada, Please tell us more about the *drikdrishti* theory you mentioned about towards the end of your message (quoted below). Very early on in my pursuance of astrology, SAMBANDHA in the horoscope became a crucial point of attention for me and that is where SYNTHESIS became such an important point-of-focus. Drishti (when eyes meet) is very synthetic, of course. Rohiniranjan • sir, As all of us Surya Siddhanta has a unque system oc classificcation. like India Meru .........Dakshna dhk bhage....... ...etc.For mundane purpose this is followed by some jyotishis. 2.Basically in Munadane Astrology,others more or less of the Parasara the location /situation of regions ,countries was thought to be based on drik pakshiya drishti.(Disa. /direction) . This resulted in cluster and was lacking clarity to find the correctness of astrological progress vis a vis their destiny/fate/ .So this too has become debatable. 3..Also people hold the view the independence/ liberation day chart too are not meaningful. The analysis for mundane purpose as of now based on conventional model has been revised.Now based the disatnce from equator,and georphical data,a chkra has been drwan and it's traditional as well as scientific importance is yet to be estblishes Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(Dear Sir ji; Pt. Chandra Munni Pathak has an interesting note in his commentary on lalkitab; i don't know how to translate it into English so i am putting it as such in Romanised Hindi; " " 1. Bharat mein grahon ka jyotishiye jyan saurmandal ke grahon se sambhandhit nahin hai, apitu ek aisa sidhanth hai, jisme yeh bataya gaya hai ki kissi bhi prakrtik - aprakritik ikkayion me balrekhaon se bane oorja uttsarjan bindu kaun kaun hain. Saurmandal ke grahon ki pehchan bhi isi sidhant ke tahat ki gayi, isliye inme samanta pratit hoti hai " . Regards Kulbir Bains • Dear Vinay, I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically said that BPHS does not have them. You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote <<< BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt that the topic was on AD. >>> I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " and tried to distort my statement. Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the beginning of this chapter. My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my message because you brought my statements out of context and changed some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's aim. Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave an example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and against Sri Jyoti Star. -VJ • Dear Sir, 1Since nakshtra r basically savya(15) and apasavya(12) based and also on DEHA and Jeeva accordingly some ambiguity is KCD is there.Further nakshtra pada also decides commencement of Dasa .For ex bharani 4th,the order is as mentioned by Shri Chandrsekhar Ji.where as antar dasa also floows same order working out paramyu as 86yrs. 2.Parasara certainly has also taken dasa visleshan based Kalchakradasa. But some how the working out of dasa of KCD has three methods as explained by BVR in his book. It appears,some problem in interpretation lead to differences. Like wise application of KCD for anlysis also there were different views.Some opine if venus is strong in natal chart or based on Moon if strong etc. In KCD dasaa basically proceed by three distinct steps.1.Mandooka2. Markata and 3.Simhavalokana, keeping basically svaya and apasavya clasification of Nakshtras. 3.//4,5,3,2, 1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka?//As per KCD scheme this is Correct. 4. //But then I see you have given something called...//There seems to be typographical mistake. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling 7 March 2010 • I have explained the main problem of KCD in http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa -VJ • Vinayji, I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ============ ==== === • Dear Krishnan, I think there is more confusion about Kalchakra dasha than any other dasha simply because though it is called as one of the important dashas, people tend to find more than what is there in it. You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. That is good to see in print but I doubt if it helps. People tend to argue more about what is right than taking pains to read that which is clearly stated. The use of the dasha is simple if one understands it right. As a matter of fact I began penning a book on it, and it is half complete but since I am at present translating one of my own books under direction from Mahamandaleshwar of a respected Akhada, that has taken a back seat. Regards, Chandrashekhar. • <<< You are right there are basically three Gatis, but now it seems people are inventing more gatis or giving the old ones new names. >>> This sentence is clearly against me, because I wrote that only the negative Gatis are mentioned in BPHS and positive Gatis are not named. It is not my invention, as Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma falsely charges. He says " I began penning a book on it (KCD) " but seems to be ignorant of the fact that all three gatis mentined in BPHS are bad, but many people have good phases in their lives too. Secondly, BPHS gives many sequences such as 1,2,3,.... which do not come under either of mandooki, markati or simhaavalokana. Hence, there must be more than three gatis and any additional gati must be benefic. Only malefic Durgatis are mentioned in PHS (as gatis). Mr Chandrashekhar Sharma claims to an expert on KCD but is ignorant of this fact as well as of other facts. Recently he refused to accept that KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari and asked me to show the verse. The verse is " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). " I never wrote any independent article of KCD. Recently, I saw a debate between Mr Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao. I found PVR to correct on one point. I wrote something to PVR on that point, and pasted my answer on my website too. It was not a comprehensive article on KCD not. On AD, I did give any detailed analysis, but only some brief comments on the topic which PVR and Mr Rath were discussing. I think there is no need of any new article on KCD because Phaladeepikaa has elaborated it beautifully. Some astrologers are creating unncessary controversies about KCD. Phaladeepikaa is based on BPHS and Chandrashekhar Ji has not read some important editions of BPHS (cf. " ...Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " ). -VJ , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dear Kulbir, I am extremely sorry. I shall try to post them tomorrow. Regards, Chandrashekhar - Lalkitab Monday, March 08, 2010 11:04 PM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Respected ChandraShekhar Ji, I am waiting for the list of trees/plants ruled by different Nakshatras. Regards Kulbir Bains. > Regards, > Chandrashekhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Utkalji, I think you should read mails properly before directing your comments at me. It is not me who claimed to have reinvented the wheel, as you call it. I was commenting on some correspondence between Vinayji and RC. So you should direct your comments at Vinayji, if you so desire. You could also recommend the reading material to him as he seems to convey that only Devchandra Jha's commentary is authentic, since you do not seem to agree with him and apparently think that Padmanabha Sharma commentary is the last word in BPHS. Your assumption that I do not read books is your personal opinion. And by the way there are more than 8 different editions of BPHS that are printed and I have access to most of them. Chandrashekhar - utkal.panigrahi Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:45 AM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, What's special in reinventing wheels, almost all the editors explained ways of calculating KCD dasha period. Pls read Padmnabha Sharma's teeka on BPHS for your betterment. Also read phaladeepika's KCD chapter, no use keeping it in collection without reading it. Utkal. , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ================ === > , " Chandrashekhar " > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra-dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra-dashaa-phalaadhyaaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra-antardashaa-phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi-2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi-2 (10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3), I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi-2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7,6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ================= ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11,12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ================ === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardashaaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta-gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ===================== === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Kalachakra-dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dear Prashant Kumar, Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the lists these days. That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. Regards, Chandrashekhar - Prashant Kumar G B Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group reading hence this msg. he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with them with composure, poise as always .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Vinayji, You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. Regards, Chandrashekhar - VJha Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, You wrote : <<< Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. >>> You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a loss to identify that pandit/pandits. I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is collection of various variants of BPHS. I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are free to find additional sins in me. You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. -VJ ============ ==== === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Vinayji, > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the mail to RC you also said > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. " > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any relevance here. > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are saying? > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any reason to distort anyone's statements. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > VJha > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I wrote > : > > <<< > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word " antardashaa " . > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of verses > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly felt > that the topic was on AD. > >>> > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word " rightly " > and tried to distort my statement. > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of " editor " . > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled as > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and PrD. > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > must be lower periods. In the chapter " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all twelve > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I take it > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs for > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been so, > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > beginning of this chapter. > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used when > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not one's > aim. > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, I > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private email > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given under > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I copied > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start any > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part of > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada of > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. BPHS > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should be > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. Since > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave an > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there will be > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage to > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary of > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the basic > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was to > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath and > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > -VJ > ============ ===== ==== > , " Chandrashekhar " > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially on > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not read > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha are > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you specifically > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be of > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the verse > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare bhaume---- " > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out what > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought to > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD scheme. > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of KCD'S > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be deduced > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will have > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka : > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the dasha > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it follows > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner Parashara > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > working > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method of > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > " Please > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > dasa > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation > of > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > article > > properly. > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > up > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into KCD. > PVR > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > which I > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > the > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > notice, > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > Kundalee Software. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ==== === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > BPHS > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > sure > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of those > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How you > move > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > has > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which is > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > Jeeva > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, we > may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ========= === > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > swami.rcs@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > Sequence > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > Stanza > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of AD > is > > very important. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Sir, What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM  Dear G B Prashant kumar, After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. Chandrashekhar. - Prashant Kumar G B Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear chandrashekar ji If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Vinayji, I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. Chandrashekhar. - VJha Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " ??? I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a non-existent edition of BPHS ?? He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. " This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a thread or a book properly. I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. -VJ ============ ======= === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the lists these days. > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > > > - > Prashant Kumar G B > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group reading hence this msg. > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with them with composure, poise as always > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 OM Guruve Namah Dear Friends, Just for information on this thread before it stands closed now, To day I have received new Book on KaalaChakra Dasha System by Sri Shakti Mohan Singh Published by Sagar Publications. Its preface was published in Saptrisi magazine. It apperas dated oct 2009. Auther claims pathbreaking description and application . Bhukti reckoning in it are open to experimentation. With best wishes. PS: Please do not treat it recommendation. It is just humble suggestion that new interpretation to KCD are made known. 3.1. Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Posted by: " Vattem Krishnan " bursar_99 bursar_99 Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:01 pm ((PST)) Sir, What you reiterate has nothing to negate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wiseman Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM Dear G B Prashant kumar, After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. Chandrashekhar. OM TAT SAT R. C. SRIVASTAVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 GB Prashant has been misled by Mr Chandrashekhar's false statements against me. Prashant Ji says : " Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me " . I have clearly named BPHS published by Chowkhambha and edited by Pt Devachandra Jha, which is most widely circulated edition of BPHS in Hindi belt. Chowkhambha is world's largest publisher of indological books. Why Mr Chandrashekhar does not visit a Chowkhambha bookshop or its website ? Instead, he is spreading false rumours about me. He is falsely saying : " the proposition made By Vinayji (about KCD's MD are not supported his arguments " . It is not my proposition, but mentioned in original text of BPHS (Chowkhambha edition) and the Hindi commentary in that edition also says what I reported here. Mr Chandrashekhar is infuriated because he did not know about this edition and wrote about KCD along different lines. Now, instead of revising his ideas, he wants to mislead members here into believing that Vinay Jha is falsely citing BPHS. Either Mr Chandrashekhar has failed to read the Chowkhambha edition or is deliberately distorting my statement. If he is sincere and honest, he should contact Chowkhambha for that book. Pt Devachandra Jha has explained the order of MD clearly and I need not repeat the same here. Here is the address : Chowkhambha Sanskrit Sansthan, PO Box 1139, K 37/116, Gopal Mandir Lane, Varanasi-221001 Its elephone numbers on the book are : 333445 (after Varanasi's code) Mr Chandrashekhar is levelling baseless accusations against me ( " After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. " " You (Vjha) have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal " . I do not know these fellows. Mr Chandrashekhar is mad with anger because I mentioned that version of BPHS which he has not read. His next question is ludicrous : " as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave " . What I gave is implied in Chowkhambha edition and I have already explained the method, but Thakur Prasad edition of BPHS already gives that very sequence and my explanation is not even needed. Mr Chandrashekhar should read these editions of BPHS instead of levelling false charges upon me. Verse number 88 in Chowkhabha edition mentions Vimshottari method for KCD's MD. If Mr Chandrashekhar believes it means Vimshottari sequence should be copied in KCD, then he forgets that the KCD sequence is already given in BPHS. BPHS mentions the method for computing birthtime MD and then says next MDs should be computed according to Vimshottari method (but the sequence of raashis/planets of MD must not be that of Vimshottari because KCD's sequence has already been explained in preceding verses of all editions of BPHS. Why Mr Chandrashekhar refuses to read the original text and is distorting my statements is a puzzle. He boasted of having 1000 chapter of BPHS and now says it was a misprint. If he implied 100 chapters, can he inform us about the various editions he knows and number of chapters in them? I do not want to insult him. Mr Chandrashekhar's problem is simple : he has not read Chowkhambha edition. When he will read it, he will find that the MD sequence in that edition is same as Mr Chandrashekhar already knows. He is unnecessarily making a fuss. -VJ ======================== === , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Sir, > What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM >  > > > Dear G B Prashant kumar, > > > > After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. > > > > I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. > > > > Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. > > > > However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > > > If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is > > and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders > > > > and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him > > > > and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions > > > > we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups > > > > we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do > > > > if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. > > > > G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. > > > > The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. > > > > Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. > > > > But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. > > > > I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. > > > > I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more > > interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . > > > > But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority > > on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " > > > > Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have > > not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements > > on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " > > ??? > > > > I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of > > BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with > > all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a > > non-existent edition of BPHS ?? > > > > He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of > > Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its > > Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : > > > > " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva > > raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " > > > > = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) > > bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki > > mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . > > > > My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in > > earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like > > the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. > > > > Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately > > mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or > > Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS > > do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should > > distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was > > given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is > > published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. > > > > Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of > > BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr > > Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. > > > > I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza > > describing results of AD alone. " > > > > It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read > > BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the > > results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS > > carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I > > laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was > > getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. " > > > > This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in > > BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at > > different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only > > two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, > > dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third > > chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which > > Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by > > them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of > > verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he > > failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed > > to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows > > only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many > > chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? > > > > RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr > > Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a > > careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a > > thread or a book properly. > > > > I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, > > because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two > > universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement > > does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. > > It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all > > non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even > > one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in > > the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr > > Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be > > " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr > > Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS > > ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems > > himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An > > authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of > > Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======= === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > > > > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a > > rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the > > lists these days. > > > > > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in > > maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > > > > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one > > goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone > > Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and > > who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, > > maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > > > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity > > that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group > > reading hence this msg. > > > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal > > if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is > > a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > > > > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such > > parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with > > them with composure, poise as always > > > > > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ > > s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar@ > > > > > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the > > goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to > > Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather > > Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha > > edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. > > > > > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the > > Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please > > do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different > > editions of BPHS in existence. > > > > > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have > > written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was > > restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of > > KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > > > > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and > > are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in > > your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct > > question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand > > you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say > > it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should > > only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > > > > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, > > that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have > > brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, > > as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why > > and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem > > to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others > > have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this > > jumping from one text to other. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > You wrote : > > > > > > <<< > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > >>> > > > > > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > > > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " > > (verse 88 > > > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > > > > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has > > again > > > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > > > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > > > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of > > BPHS, > > > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > > > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of > > BPHS. > > > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not > > given up > > > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by > > Pt > > > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > > > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and > > two > > > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > > > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those > > threads. > > > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere > > in > > > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > > > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some > > pandit > > > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still > > at a > > > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > > > > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is > > 100% > > > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > > > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > > > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > > > > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article > > but > > > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not > > written > > > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, > > I > > > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did > > not > > > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu > > book of > > > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has > > not > > > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious > > Telugu > > > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > > > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony > > with > > > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD > > is > > > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even > > if > > > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > > > > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence > > of > > > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found > > PVR's > > > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > > > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you > > are > > > free to find additional sins in me. > > > > > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > > > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker > > has > > > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > > > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief > > in > > > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not > > my > > > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As > > for > > > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he > > was > > > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > > > > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very > > reason > > > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is > > no > > > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > > > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to > > mail > > > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in > > the > > > mail to RC you also said > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. " > > > > > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When > > I > > > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you > > want > > > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist > > on > > > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, > > but > > > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain > > what > > > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is > > not > > > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the > > guess > > > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas > > should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > > > relevance here. > > > > > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > > > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, > > with > > > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the > > order > > > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would > > not > > > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also > > what > > > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that > > you > > > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > > > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of > > us to > > > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > > > saying? > > > > > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or > > that > > > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > > > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your > > point > > > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have > > any > > > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > > > wrote > > > > : > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > > verses > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > > felt > > > > that the topic was on AD. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > > > " rightly " > > > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > > > " editor " . > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors > > are > > > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic > > at > > > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly > > labeled > > > as > > > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > > > PrD. > > > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > > > deduced > > > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies > > there > > > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of > > all > > > twelve > > > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > > > take it > > > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine > > SDs > > > for > > > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > > > so, > > > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > > Pt > > > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > > > message because you brought my statements out of context and > > changed > > > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > > > when > > > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > > > one's > > > > aim. > > > > > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that > > thread, > > > I > > > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > > > email > > > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > > > under > > > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > > > copied > > > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, > > I > > > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to > > start > > > any > > > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a > > part > > > of > > > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with > > his > > > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second > > pada > > > of > > > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > > > BPHS > > > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing > > in > > > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > > > be > > > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > > > Since > > > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I > > gave > > > an > > > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in > > LCD. > > > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > > > will be > > > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > > > to > > > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time > > to > > > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > > > of > > > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > > > basic > > > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article > > was > > > to > > > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > > > and > > > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, > > especially > > > on > > > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > > > read > > > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of > > Kalchakradasha > > > are > > > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > > > specifically > > > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > > > of > > > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write > > any > > > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > > > verse > > > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > > > bhaume---- " > > > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas > > pretty > > > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > > > what > > > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are > > sought > > > to > > > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > > > scheme. > > > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > > > KCD'S > > > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > > > deduced > > > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > > > have > > > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in > > Karka > > > : > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > > > dasha > > > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > > > follows > > > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > > > Parashara > > > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > > > working > > > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct > > method > > > of > > > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already > > answered. > > > > > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > > > " Please > > > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > > > dasa > > > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > > > elucidation > > > > of > > > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see > > the > > > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > > > article > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part > > of > > > > verses > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who > > rightly > > > > felt > > > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to > > pick > > > > up > > > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > > > KCD. > > > > PVR > > > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > > > which I > > > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring > > out > > > > the > > > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > > > notice, > > > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out > > in > > > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does > > not > > > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > > > BPHS > > > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I > > am > > > > sure > > > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > - > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > > those > > > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > > > you > > > > move > > > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of > > AD > > > > has > > > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to > > deduce > > > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) > > which > > > is > > > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > > > Jeeva > > > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > > > alone. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > > > AD > > > > in > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > > > right > > > > of > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya > > containing > > > > 37 > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > These > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in > > KCD, > > > we > > > > may > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > > > of > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > > > read > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > > > swami.rcs@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > > > Sequence > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > > > Stanza > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > > > AD > > > > is > > > > > very important. > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Dear Vinay ji it is otherway round I wanted chandrashekar ji to know ur using a diff version of BPHS as it is important to say that pl see my post on this for more * is I t is good to see u publish the source/vendor * it Utkal/lalit r one and the same he claims the entire world knows it so i am not sure which world [it is his pen name he claims the real irony is he writes to both ID's in his grp] * pl avoid personal coments and the best way is to show what u did in the end the source, rest is left to them to use/seek them. if u see many ppl complained abt my signature I retain it as i use a diff ayanamsa -ramans in my readings so it is understood and rarely ppl ask so u can do similarly I use chowkamba's versions .... it is different from other works once in a while provide the ventors details as today also publish it in filse section thanks G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ VJha <vinayjhaa16 Sat, March 13, 2010 10:01:21 PM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods GB Prashant has been misled by Mr Chandrashekhar' s false statements against me. Prashant Ji says : " Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me " . I have clearly named BPHS published by Chowkhambha and edited by Pt Devachandra Jha, which is most widely circulated edition of BPHS in Hindi belt. Chowkhambha is world's largest publisher of indological books. Why Mr Chandrashekhar does not visit a Chowkhambha bookshop or its website ? Instead, he is spreading false rumours about me. He is falsely saying : " the proposition made By Vinayji (about KCD's MD are not supported his arguments " . It is not my proposition, but mentioned in original text of BPHS (Chowkhambha edition) and the Hindi commentary in that edition also says what I reported here. Mr Chandrashekhar is infuriated because he did not know about this edition and wrote about KCD along different lines. Now, instead of revising his ideas, he wants to mislead members here into believing that Vinay Jha is falsely citing BPHS. Either Mr Chandrashekhar has failed to read the Chowkhambha edition or is deliberately distorting my statement. If he is sincere and honest, he should contact Chowkhambha for that book. Pt Devachandra Jha has explained the order of MD clearly and I need not repeat the same here. Here is the address : Chowkhambha Sanskrit Sansthan, PO Box 1139, K 37/116, Gopal Mandir Lane, Varanasi-221001 Its elephone numbers on the book are : 333445 (after Varanasi's code) Mr Chandrashekhar is levelling baseless accusations against me ( " After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. " " You (Vjha) have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal " . I do not know these fellows. Mr Chandrashekhar is mad with anger because I mentioned that version of BPHS which he has not read. His next question is ludicrous : " as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave " . What I gave is implied in Chowkhambha edition and I have already explained the method, but Thakur Prasad edition of BPHS already gives that very sequence and my explanation is not even needed. Mr Chandrashekhar should read these editions of BPHS instead of levelling false charges upon me. Verse number 88 in Chowkhabha edition mentions Vimshottari method for KCD's MD. If Mr Chandrashekhar believes it means Vimshottari sequence should be copied in KCD, then he forgets that the KCD sequence is already given in BPHS. BPHS mentions the method for computing birthtime MD and then says next MDs should be computed according to Vimshottari method (but the sequence of raashis/planets of MD must not be that of Vimshottari because KCD's sequence has already been explained in preceding verses of all editions of BPHS. Why Mr Chandrashekhar refuses to read the original text and is distorting my statements is a puzzle. He boasted of having 1000 chapter of BPHS and now says it was a misprint. If he implied 100 chapters, can he inform us about the various editions he knows and number of chapters in them? I do not want to insult him. Mr Chandrashekhar' s problem is simple : he has not read Chowkhambha edition. When he will read it, he will find that the MD sequence in that edition is same as Mr Chandrashekhar already knows. He is unnecessarily making a fuss. -VJ ============ ========= === === , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@. ..> wrote: > > Sir, > What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek har > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM >  > > > Dear G B Prashant kumar, > > > > After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. > > > > I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. > > > > Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. > > > > However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > > > If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is > > and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders > > > > and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him > > > > and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions > > > > we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups > > > > we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do > > > > if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. > > > > G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek h ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. > > > > The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. > > > > Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. > > > > But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. > > > > I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. > > > > I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more > > interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . > > > > But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority > > on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " > > > > Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have > > not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements > > on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " > > ??? > > > > I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of > > BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with > > all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a > > non-existent edition of BPHS ?? > > > > He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of > > Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its > > Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : > > > > " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva > > raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " > > > > = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) > > bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki > > mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . > > > > My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in > > earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like > > the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. > > > > Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately > > mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or > > Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS > > do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should > > distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was > > given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is > > published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. > > > > Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of > > BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr > > Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. > > > > I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza > > describing results of AD alone. " > > > > It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read > > BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the > > results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS > > carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I > > laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was > > getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. " > > > > This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in > > BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at > > different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only > > two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, > > dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third > > chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which > > Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by > > them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of > > verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he > > failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed > > to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows > > only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many > > chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? > > > > RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr > > Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a > > careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a > > thread or a book properly. > > > > I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, > > because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two > > universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement > > does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. > > It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all > > non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even > > one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in > > the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr > > Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be > > " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr > > Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS > > ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems > > himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An > > authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of > > Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======= === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > > > > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a > > rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the > > lists these days. > > > > > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in > > maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > > > > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one > > goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone > > Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and > > who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, > > maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > > > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity > > that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group > > reading hence this msg. > > > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal > > if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is > > a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > > > > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such > > parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with > > them with composure, poise as always > > > > > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ > > s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar@ > > > > > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the > > goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to > > Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather > > Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha > > edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. > > > > > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the > > Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please > > do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different > > editions of BPHS in existence. > > > > > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have > > written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was > > restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of > > KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > > > > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and > > are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in > > your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct > > question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand > > you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say > > it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should > > only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > > > > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, > > that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have > > brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, > > as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why > > and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem > > to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others > > have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this > > jumping from one text to other. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > You wrote : > > > > > > <<< > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > >>> > > > > > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > > > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " > > (verse 88 > > > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > > > > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has > > again > > > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > > > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > > > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of > > BPHS, > > > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > > > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of > > BPHS. > > > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not > > given up > > > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by > > Pt > > > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > > > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and > > two > > > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > > > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those > > threads. > > > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere > > in > > > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > > > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some > > pandit > > > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still > > at a > > > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > > > > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is > > 100% > > > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > > > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > > > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > > > > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article > > but > > > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not > > written > > > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, > > I > > > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did > > not > > > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu > > book of > > > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has > > not > > > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious > > Telugu > > > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > > > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony > > with > > > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD > > is > > > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even > > if > > > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > > > > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence > > of > > > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found > > PVR's > > > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > > > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you > > are > > > free to find additional sins in me. > > > > > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > > > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker > > has > > > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > > > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief > > in > > > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not > > my > > > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As > > for > > > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he > > was > > > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > > > > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very > > reason > > > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is > > no > > > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > > > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to > > mail > > > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in > > the > > > mail to RC you also said > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. " > > > > > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When > > I > > > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you > > want > > > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist > > on > > > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, > > but > > > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain > > what > > > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is > > not > > > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the > > guess > > > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas > > should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > > > relevance here. > > > > > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > > > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, > > with > > > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the > > order > > > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would > > not > > > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also > > what > > > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that > > you > > > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > > > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of > > us to > > > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > > > saying? > > > > > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or > > that > > > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > > > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your > > point > > > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have > > any > > > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > > > wrote > > > > : > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > > verses > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > > felt > > > > that the topic was on AD. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > > > " rightly " > > > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > > > " editor " . > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors > > are > > > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic > > at > > > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly > > labeled > > > as > > > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > > > PrD. > > > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > > > deduced > > > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies > > there > > > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of > > all > > > twelve > > > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > > > take it > > > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine > > SDs > > > for > > > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > > > so, > > > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > > Pt > > > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > > > message because you brought my statements out of context and > > changed > > > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > > > when > > > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > > > one's > > > > aim. > > > > > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that > > thread, > > > I > > > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > > > email > > > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > > > under > > > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > > > copied > > > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, > > I > > > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to > > start > > > any > > > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a > > part > > > of > > > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with > > his > > > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second > > pada > > > of > > > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > > > BPHS > > > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing > > in > > > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > > > be > > > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > > > Since > > > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I > > gave > > > an > > > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in > > LCD. > > > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > > > will be > > > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > > > to > > > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time > > to > > > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > > > of > > > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > > > basic > > > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article > > was > > > to > > > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > > > and > > > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, > > especially > > > on > > > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > > > read > > > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of > > Kalchakradasha > > > are > > > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > > > specifically > > > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > > > of > > > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write > > any > > > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > > > verse > > > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > > > bhaume---- " > > > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas > > pretty > > > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > > > what > > > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are > > sought > > > to > > > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > > > scheme. > > > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > > > KCD'S > > > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > > > deduced > > > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > > > have > > > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in > > Karka > > > : > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > > > dasha > > > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > > > follows > > > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > > > Parashara > > > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > > > working > > > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct > > method > > > of > > > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already > > answered. > > > > > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > > > " Please > > > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > > > dasa > > > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > > > elucidation > > > > of > > > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see > > the > > > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > > > article > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part > > of > > > > verses > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who > > rightly > > > > felt > > > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to > > pick > > > > up > > > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > > > KCD. > > > > PVR > > > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > > > which I > > > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring > > out > > > > the > > > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > > > notice, > > > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out > > in > > > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does > > not > > > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > > > BPHS > > > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I > > am > > > > sure > > > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > - > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > > those > > > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > > > you > > > > move > > > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of > > AD > > > > has > > > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to > > deduce > > > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) > > which > > > is > > > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > > > Jeeva > > > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > > > alone. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > > > AD > > > > in > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > > > right > > > > of > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya > > containing > > > > 37 > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > These > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in > > KCD, > > > we > > > > may > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > > > of > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > > > read > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > > > swami.rcs@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > > > Sequence > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > > > Stanza > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > > > AD > > > > is > > > > > very important. > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 For whatever my chavannee is worth, Kumar ji, I think it is a great idea to clarify the ayanamsha etc as you do in the signature even though some " mahanubhavs and devijis " would still continue to ask why dasas calculated by you do not match what Tota Pandit or Guru Bhasmasur told them was running in their lives at a given time! OY VAY!! RR_, , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote: > > > ... > if u see many ppl complained abt my signature I retain it as i use a diff ayanamsa -ramans in my readings so it is understood and rarely ppl ask so u can do similarly I use chowkamba's versions .... it is different from other works >... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Dear Vattem Krishnan, I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only reiterating the obvious. Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order of " AachaMkuraagushabukeshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not the order followed in KCD at all. Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. I hope you can now see what is happening. Regards. Chandrashekhar - Vattem Krishnan Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Sir, What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM Dear G B Prashant kumar, After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. Chandrashekhar. - Prashant Kumar G B Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear chandrashekar ji If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Vinayji, I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. Chandrashekhar. - VJha Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " ??? I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a non-existent edition of BPHS ?? He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. " This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a thread or a book properly. I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. -VJ ============ ======= === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the lists these days. > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > > > - > Prashant Kumar G B > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group reading hence this msg. > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with them with composure, poise as always > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Mr Chandrashekhar does not know Sanskrit and is gussing " I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. " No, the verse mentioning Vimshottari simply means that after getting bhukta and bhogya period of KCD's MD , we should move to the next MD as in the Vimshottari. But it does not mean we should copy the sequence of Vimshottari. The sequence of Vimshottari is Sun-Moon-Mars-Rahu-Jup-Sat-Merc-Ketu-Venus, which is always fixed. This sequencxe is never used in KCD at any level and in any case. The sequences used in KCD are clearly given in all editions of BPHS and I mentioned those 16 sequences in my article which Mr Chandrashekhar claoms to have read. If he has read my article, why he falsely reports here that I advocate Vimshottari sequence in KCD ? In Chowkhambha edition, only 15 sequences are described, and 16th sequence can be logically deduced on the basis of these 15 sequence : I have described the method of derivation of this missing sequence in my article. Sanjay Rath and PVR Narasimha Rao differ on this sequence. But there is no need to make any fuss about this missing sequence, because its original verse is already present in some other editions of BPHS (eg, in Thakur Prasad edition edited by Ganesh Ji). Mr Chandrashekhar is unnecessarily wasting out time by distorting my statement. I quoted BPHS which said next KCD MD comes as in the case of Vimshottari, which simply means KCD does not have a single MD but has a sequence as in the case of Vimshottari. But KCD sequences are duly described in BPHS as well as in my article, hence Mr Chandrashekhar is deliberately misleading members by inferring that I said KCD sequence should be a copy of Vimshottari sequence. He is lying. His another lie is that he is charging me of keeping duplicate IDs (He says : " one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. I hope you can now see what is happening " ). Many members keep duplicate IDs. I never kept any duplicate ID in any forum in my life. I do not know Mr Utkal. I do not know what is the right or wrong of Mr Utkal. I also do not know why Mr Chandrashekhar is inventing such lies about me. Mr Chandrashekhar's next les is : " The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. " The thread did not began with what he says. The began with my brief message about my article at my website, which was a copy of my reply to PVR Narasimha Rao (at amy private email ID, not in any forum). This article was not a complete description of KCD, but was concerned with only that portion of KCD on which Mr Sanjay Rath differs from PVR Narasimha Rao (on a certain order for Karka Dasha). This article never said that KCD does not contain ADs. It was another member of this forum, RCS, who misquoted the number of verses in AD chapter of BPHS. I guessed RCS has not made a first hand reading of BPHS. My guess may be wrong, but to test RCS I asked him to show any evidence of AD in KCD. I thought a person not having read BPHS will not be able to show the proof. But in my article, I said KCD contains ADs too, although I mentioned two variants of AD derivation and did not elaborate my views because I did not want to open any argument against PVR (this article was a reply to PVR). The proof of AD in BPHS leas in that very chapter which RCS was quoting, but he was quoting wrongly. I wanted him to quote correctly by reading the original text instead of relying upon secondary sources. That is why I asked RCS to find out the proof of AD. I had already explained this to Mr Chandrashekha, yet he is deliberately making a fuss. This thread is a wastage of time. I know Mr Chandrashekhar has written something about KCD and does not want the presence of any other author on this topic. That is why he is levelling baseless charges on me. If Mr Chandrashekhar has something worthwhile to say about KCD, he is welcome to explain his views. Instead of levelling charges and maligning me or calling others my proxies, he should explain KCD if he is really interested in it. I am out of station, and answering such baseless charges is hampering my work. -VJ ========================= == , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Vattem Krishnan, > > I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. > > First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only reiterating the obvious. > > Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order of " AachaMkuraagushabukeshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not the order followed in KCD at all. > > Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. > > I hope you can now see what is happening. > > Regards. > Chandrashekhar > > - > Vattem Krishnan > > Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Sir, > What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM > > > > Dear G B Prashant kumar, > > After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. > > I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. > > Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. > > However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. > > Chandrashekhar. > > - > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is > > and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders > > and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him > > and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions > > we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups > > we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do > > if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. > > G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear Vinayji, > > I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. > > The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. > > Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. > > But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. > > I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. > > I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. > > Chandrashekhar. > > - > > VJha > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : > > Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more > > interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . > > But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority > > on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " > > Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have > > not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements > > on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " > > ??? > > I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of > > BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with > > all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a > > non-existent edition of BPHS ?? > > He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of > > Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its > > Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : > > " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva > > raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " > > = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) > > bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki > > mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . > > My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in > > earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like > > the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. > > Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately > > mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or > > Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS > > do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should > > distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was > > given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is > > published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. > > Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of > > BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr > > Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. > > I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza > > describing results of AD alone. " > > It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read > > BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the > > results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS > > carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I > > laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was > > getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > properly. " > > This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in > > BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at > > different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only > > two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, > > dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third > > chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which > > Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by > > them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of > > verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he > > failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed > > to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows > > only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many > > chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? > > RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr > > Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a > > careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a > > thread or a book properly. > > I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, > > because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two > > universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement > > does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. > > It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all > > non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even > > one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in > > the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr > > Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be > > " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr > > Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS > > ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems > > himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An > > authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of > > Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. > > -VJ > > ============ ======= === > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > > > > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a > > rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the > > lists these days. > > > > > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in > > maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > > > > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one > > goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone > > Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and > > who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, > > maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > > > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity > > that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group > > reading hence this msg. > > > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal > > if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is > > a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > > > > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such > > parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with > > them with composure, poise as always > > > > > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ > > s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar@ > > > > > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the > > goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to > > Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather > > Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha > > edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > the shloka you quote does not say so. > > > > > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the > > Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please > > do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different > > editions of BPHS in existence. > > > > > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have > > written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was > > restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of > > KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > > > > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and > > are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in > > your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct > > question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand > > you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say > > it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should > > only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > > > > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, > > that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have > > brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, > > as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why > > and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem > > to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others > > have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this > > jumping from one text to other. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > You wrote : > > > > > > <<< > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > >>> > > > > > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > > > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " > > (verse 88 > > > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > > > > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has > > again > > > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > > > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > > > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of > > BPHS, > > > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > > > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of > > BPHS. > > > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not > > given up > > > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by > > Pt > > > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > > > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and > > two > > > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > > > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those > > threads. > > > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere > > in > > > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > > > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some > > pandit > > > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still > > at a > > > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > > > > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is > > 100% > > > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > > > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > > > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > > > > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article > > but > > > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not > > written > > > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, > > I > > > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did > > not > > > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu > > book of > > > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has > > not > > > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious > > Telugu > > > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > > > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony > > with > > > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD > > is > > > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even > > if > > > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > > > > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence > > of > > > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found > > PVR's > > > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > > > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you > > are > > > free to find additional sins in me. > > > > > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > > > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker > > has > > > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > > > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief > > in > > > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not > > my > > > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As > > for > > > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he > > was > > > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > > > > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very > > reason > > > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is > > no > > > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > > > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to > > mail > > > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in > > the > > > mail to RC you also said > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. " > > > > > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When > > I > > > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you > > want > > > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist > > on > > > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, > > but > > > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain > > what > > > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is > > not > > > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the > > guess > > > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas > > should > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > Vimshottari. > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > support > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > > > relevance here. > > > > > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > > > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, > > with > > > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the > > order > > > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would > > not > > > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also > > what > > > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that > > you > > > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > > > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of > > us to > > > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > > > saying? > > > > > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or > > that > > > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > > > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your > > point > > > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have > > any > > > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > > > wrote > > > > : > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > > verses > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > > felt > > > > that the topic was on AD. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > > > " rightly " > > > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > > > " editor " . > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors > > are > > > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic > > at > > > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly > > labeled > > > as > > > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > > > PrD. > > > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > > > deduced > > > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies > > there > > > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of > > all > > > twelve > > > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > > > take it > > > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine > > SDs > > > for > > > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > > > so, > > > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > > Pt > > > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > > > message because you brought my statements out of context and > > changed > > > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > > > when > > > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > > > one's > > > > aim. > > > > > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that > > thread, > > > I > > > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > > > email > > > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > > > under > > > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > > > copied > > > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, > > I > > > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to > > start > > > any > > > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a > > part > > > of > > > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with > > his > > > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second > > pada > > > of > > > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > > > BPHS > > > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing > > in > > > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > > > be > > > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > > > Since > > > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I > > gave > > > an > > > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in > > LCD. > > > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > > > will be > > > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > > > to > > > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time > > to > > > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > > > of > > > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > > > basic > > > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article > > was > > > to > > > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > > > and > > > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, > > especially > > > on > > > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > > > read > > > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of > > Kalchakradasha > > > are > > > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > > > specifically > > > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > > > of > > > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write > > any > > > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > > > verse > > > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > > > bhaume---- " > > > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas > > pretty > > > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > > > what > > > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are > > sought > > > to > > > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > > > scheme. > > > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > > > KCD'S > > > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > > > deduced > > > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > > > have > > > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in > > Karka > > > : > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > > > dasha > > > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > > > follows > > > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > > > Parashara > > > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > > > working > > > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct > > method > > > of > > > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already > > answered. > > > > > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > > > " Please > > > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > > > dasa > > > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > > > elucidation > > > > of > > > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see > > the > > > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > > > article > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part > > of > > > > verses > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who > > rightly > > > > felt > > > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to > > pick > > > > up > > > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > > > KCD. > > > > PVR > > > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > > > which I > > > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring > > out > > > > the > > > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > > > notice, > > > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out > > in > > > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does > > not > > > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > > > BPHS > > > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I > > am > > > > sure > > > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > - > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > > those > > > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > > > you > > > > move > > > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of > > AD > > > > has > > > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to > > deduce > > > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) > > which > > > is > > > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > > > Jeeva > > > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > > > alone. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > > > AD > > > > in > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > > > right > > > > of > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya > > containing > > > > 37 > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > These > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in > > KCD, > > > we > > > > may > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > > > of > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > > > read > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > > > swami.rcs@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > > > Sequence > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > Pada. > > > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > > > Stanza > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > > > AD > > > > is > > > > > very important. > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Sir, The topic assumes more importance in the light of Shri Tanvir Ji's message as to the preference and results out of the various types of dasas applied for analysing the charts and results there of.Though KCD ha sit's own importance,there seems to be some void in it's uasage as frequently one can adopt Vimsottari,Yogini and other like udu dasa.  KCD basically has it's own way  identifying dashas based on savya and apasavya nakshatras. For calculation of bhogya dasa you have mentioned Finally the sequence followed for antar dasha seems to be borrowed from vimshottari dasa. Finally antar dasha calculations have been brought in BPHS and Phala deepikapossibly some differences between them could be seen.taking example Karaka and out lining dasha,anatar and pratyantar would have provided more clarity.In a group environment continuity in discussions looses order as some member raises some which probably not impinge on main thread Prof Jha in the group has been active and is also involved in several other academic pursuits.certainly he finds time as constriant and also couple of time he finds problems in internet connectivity.I find by way interaction and various views,an opportunity was extended to understand intricacies of KCD.iam thankful to you for bringing out subtleties in this system of KCD. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Saturday, March 13, 2010, 2:50 PM  Dear Vattem Krishnan, I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only reiterating the obvious. Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order of " AachaMkuraagushabu keshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not the order followed in KCD at all. Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. I hope you can now see what is happening. Regards. Chandrashekhar - Vattem Krishnan Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Sir, What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM Dear G B Prashant kumar, After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. Chandrashekhar. - Prashant Kumar G B Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear chandrashekar ji If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek h ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Vinayji, I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. Chandrashekhar. - VJha Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " ??? I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a non-existent edition of BPHS ?? He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. " This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a thread or a book properly. I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. -VJ ============ ======= === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the lists these days. > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > > > - > Prashant Kumar G B > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group reading hence this msg. > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with them with composure, poise as always > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Vattem Krishnan Ji, BPHS (Chowkhambha edition) says " after deducing bhukta and bhogya periods of birthtime MD of KCD, next MDs ought to be deduced as is done in the case of Vimshottari. It does not mean the " order " of KCD's MDs should copy the order of Vimshottari's MDs, because the order of KCD's MDs has been elaborated in all editions of BPHS without ambiguity and this order does not copy the order of Vimshottari. Why Mr Chandrashekhar is deliberately distorting my statements becomes clear when he charges my ID to be fake copies of persoms whom I do not know (utkal & c). The fact is Mr Chandrashekha wrote something about KCD without reading all versions of BPHS, and my crime was that I quoted from Chowkhambha version which he had not read. Earlier, he refuted the existence of mention of Vimshottari's reference in KCD chapter, but after I supplied the verse he is distorting its meanings. This thread is no longer serving any useful purpose. Although I am constantly on tour now-a-days, I check the mails almost daily because I keep a laptop with modem always with me. There is no question of my " disappearing " as Mr Chandrashekhar falsely charges. I was at an astrological conference in Sanskrit College, Hata, Kushinagar, UP (Mar 13-15) and after that I am at Shataabdi Bhawan (guest house of Sampoornanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi). As for my fake ID, Mr Chandrashekhar can enquire from these institutions about my fakeness. I do not knoe Mr Utkal. Mr Chandrashekhar should not level baseless charges. -VJ ================== ==== , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Sir, > The topic assumes more importance in the light of Shri Tanvir Ji's message as to the preference and results out of the various types of dasas applied for analysing the charts and results there of.Though KCD ha sit's own importance,there seems to be some void in it's uasage as frequently one can adopt Vimsottari,Yogini and other like udu dasa. >  KCD basically has it's own way  identifying dashas based on savya and apasavya nakshatras. > For calculation of bhogya dasa you have mentioned Finally the sequence followed for antar dasha seems to be borrowed from vimshottari dasa. > Finally antar dasha calculations have been brought in BPHS and Phala deepikapossibly some differences between them could be seen.taking example Karaka and out lining dasha,anatar and pratyantar would have provided more clarity.In a group environment continuity in discussions looses order as some member raises some which probably not impinge on main thread > Prof Jha in the group has been active and is also involved in several other academic pursuits.certainly he finds time as constriant and also couple of time he finds problems in internet connectivity.I find by way interaction and various views,an opportunity was extended to understand intricacies of KCD.iam thankful to you for bringing out subtleties in this system of KCD. > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Saturday, March 13, 2010, 2:50 PM >  > > > Dear Vattem Krishnan, > > > > I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. > > > > First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only reiterating the obvious. > > > > Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order of " AachaMkuraagushabu keshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not the order followed in KCD at all. > > > > Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. > > > > I hope you can now see what is happening. > > > > Regards. > > Chandrashekhar > > > > - > > Vattem Krishnan > > > > Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Sir, > > What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > > > --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM > > > > Dear G B Prashant kumar, > > > > After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. > > > > I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. > > > > Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. > > > > However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > > > If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is > > > > and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders > > > > and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him > > > > and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions > > > > we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups > > > > we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do > > > > if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. > > > > G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek h ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > > > > > Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. > > > > The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. > > > > Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. > > > > But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. > > > > I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. > > > > I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more > > > > interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . > > > > But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority > > > > on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " > > > > Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have > > > > not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements > > > > on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " > > > > ??? > > > > I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of > > > > BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with > > > > all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a > > > > non-existent edition of BPHS ?? > > > > He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > > > the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of > > > > Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its > > > > Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : > > > > " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva > > > > raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " > > > > = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) > > > > bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki > > > > mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . > > > > My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in > > > > earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like > > > > the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. > > > > Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately > > > > mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or > > > > Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS > > > > do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should > > > > distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was > > > > given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is > > > > published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. > > > > Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of > > > > BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr > > > > Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. > > > > I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza > > > > describing results of AD alone. " > > > > It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read > > > > BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the > > > > results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS > > > > carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I > > > > laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was > > > > getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > > > properly. " > > > > This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in > > > > BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at > > > > different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only > > > > two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, > > > > dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third > > > > chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which > > > > Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by > > > > them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of > > > > verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he > > > > failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed > > > > to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows > > > > only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many > > > > chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? > > > > RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr > > > > Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a > > > > careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a > > > > thread or a book properly. > > > > I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, > > > > because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two > > > > universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement > > > > does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. > > > > It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all > > > > non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even > > > > one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in > > > > the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr > > > > Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be > > > > " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr > > > > Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS > > > > ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems > > > > himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An > > > > authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of > > > > Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ======= === > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > > > > > > > > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a > > > > rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the > > > > lists these days. > > > > > > > > > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in > > > > maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > > > > > > > > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one > > > > goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone > > > > Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and > > > > who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, > > > > maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > > > > > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity > > > > that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group > > > > reading hence this msg. > > > > > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal > > > > if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is > > > > a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > > > > > > > > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such > > > > parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with > > > > them with composure, poise as always > > > > > > > > > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ > > > > s & tbl=6 > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar@ > > > > > > > > > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the > > > > goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to > > > > Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather > > > > Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha > > > > edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra > > > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least > > > > the shloka you quote does not say so. > > > > > > > > > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the > > > > Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please > > > > do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different > > > > editions of BPHS in existence. > > > > > > > > > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have > > > > written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was > > > > restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of > > > > KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > > > > > > > > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and > > > > are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in > > > > your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct > > > > question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand > > > > you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say > > > > it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should > > > > only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > > > > > > > > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, > > > > that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have > > > > brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, > > > > as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why > > > > and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem > > > > to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others > > > > have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this > > > > jumping from one text to other. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > > > You wrote : > > > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > > > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > > > Vimshottari. > > > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > > > support > > > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > > > > > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " > > > > (verse 88 > > > > > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > > > > > > > > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has > > > > again > > > > > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > > > > > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > > > > > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of > > > > BPHS, > > > > > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > > > > > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of > > > > BPHS. > > > > > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not > > > > given up > > > > > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by > > > > Pt > > > > > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > > > > > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and > > > > two > > > > > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > > > > > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those > > > > threads. > > > > > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere > > > > in > > > > > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > > > > > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some > > > > pandit > > > > > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still > > > > at a > > > > > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > > > > > > > > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is > > > > 100% > > > > > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > > > > > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > > > > > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > > > > > > > > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article > > > > but > > > > > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not > > > > written > > > > > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, > > > > I > > > > > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did > > > > not > > > > > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu > > > > book of > > > > > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has > > > > not > > > > > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious > > > > Telugu > > > > > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > > > > > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony > > > > with > > > > > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD > > > > is > > > > > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even > > > > if > > > > > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > > > > > > > > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence > > > > of > > > > > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found > > > > PVR's > > > > > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > > > > > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you > > > > are > > > > > free to find additional sins in me. > > > > > > > > > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > > > > > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker > > > > has > > > > > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > > > > > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief > > > > in > > > > > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not > > > > my > > > > > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As > > > > for > > > > > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he > > > > was > > > > > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > > > > > > > > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very > > > > reason > > > > > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is > > > > no > > > > > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > > > > > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to > > > > mail > > > > > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in > > > > the > > > > > mail to RC you also said > > > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > > > > in > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > > > > of > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > > > 37 > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > These > > > > > results are about MD. " > > > > > > > > > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When > > > > I > > > > > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you > > > > want > > > > > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist > > > > on > > > > > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, > > > > but > > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain > > > > what > > > > > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is > > > > not > > > > > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the > > > > guess > > > > > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas > > > > should > > > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > > > Vimshottari. > > > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > > > support > > > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > > > > > relevance here. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > > > > > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, > > > > with > > > > > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the > > > > order > > > > > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would > > > > not > > > > > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also > > > > what > > > > > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that > > > > you > > > > > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > > > > > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of > > > > us to > > > > > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > > > > > saying? > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or > > > > that > > > > > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > > > > > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your > > > > point > > > > > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have > > > > any > > > > > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > > > > > wrote > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > > > > verses > > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > > > > felt > > > > > > that the topic was on AD. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > > > > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > > > > > " rightly " > > > > > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > > > > > " editor " . > > > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > > > > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors > > > > are > > > > > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic > > > > at > > > > > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly > > > > labeled > > > > > as > > > > > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > > > > > PrD. > > > > > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > > > > > deduced > > > > > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies > > > > there > > > > > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > > > > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of > > > > all > > > > > twelve > > > > > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > > > > > take it > > > > > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine > > > > SDs > > > > > for > > > > > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > > > > > so, > > > > > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > > > > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > > > > > > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > > > > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > > > > Pt > > > > > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > > > > > message because you brought my statements out of context and > > > > changed > > > > > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > > > > > when > > > > > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > > > > > one's > > > > > > aim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > > > > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that > > > > thread, > > > > > I > > > > > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > > > > > email > > > > > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > > > > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > > > > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > > > > > under > > > > > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > > > > > copied > > > > > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, > > > > I > > > > > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to > > > > start > > > > > any > > > > > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a > > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > > > > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > > > > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with > > > > his > > > > > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second > > > > pada > > > > > of > > > > > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > > > > > BPHS > > > > > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing > > > > in > > > > > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > > > > > be > > > > > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > > > > > Since > > > > > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I > > > > gave > > > > > an > > > > > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in > > > > LCD. > > > > > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > > > > > will be > > > > > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > > > > > to > > > > > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time > > > > to > > > > > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > > > > > of > > > > > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > > > > > basic > > > > > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article > > > > was > > > > > to > > > > > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > > > > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > > > > > and > > > > > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, > > > > especially > > > > > on > > > > > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > > > > > read > > > > > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of > > > > Kalchakradasha > > > > > are > > > > > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > > > > > specifically > > > > > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > > > > > of > > > > > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write > > > > any > > > > > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > > > > > verse > > > > > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > > > > > bhaume---- " > > > > > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any > > > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas > > > > pretty > > > > > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > > > > > what > > > > > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are > > > > sought > > > > > to > > > > > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > > > > > scheme. > > > > > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > > > > > KCD'S > > > > > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > > > > > deduced > > > > > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > > > > > have > > > > > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in > > > > Karka > > > > > : > > > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > > > > > dasha > > > > > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > > > > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > > > > > follows > > > > > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > > > > > Parashara > > > > > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > > > > > working > > > > > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct > > > > method > > > > > of > > > > > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already > > > > answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > > > > > " Please > > > > > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > > > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > > > > > elucidation > > > > > > of > > > > > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see > > > > the > > > > > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > > > > > article > > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part > > > > of > > > > > > verses > > > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who > > > > rightly > > > > > > felt > > > > > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to > > > > pick > > > > > > up > > > > > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > > > > > KCD. > > > > > > PVR > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring > > > > out > > > > > > the > > > > > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > > > > > notice, > > > > > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out > > > > in > > > > > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does > > > > not > > > > > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > > > > > BPHS > > > > > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > > > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I > > > > am > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > > > > those > > > > > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > > > > > you > > > > > > move > > > > > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of > > > > AD > > > > > > has > > > > > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to > > > > deduce > > > > > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > > > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > > > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) > > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > > > > > Jeeva > > > > > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > > > > > alone. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > > > > > AD > > > > > > in > > > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > > > > > right > > > > > > of > > > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya > > > > containing > > > > > > 37 > > > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > > > These > > > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in > > > > KCD, > > > > > we > > > > > > may > > > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > > > > > of > > > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > > > > > read > > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > > > > > swami.rcs@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > > > > > Sequence > > > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > > > > > Stanza > > > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > > > > > AD > > > > > > is > > > > > > > very important. > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Dear Vattem Krishna, I have never claimed to be a scholar of Sanskrit like VJHa/Utkal or who ever he might be. However even now I do not see the complete shloka given by him and neither do I see answers to the original question. What prevents him from giving the complete shloka is beyond comprehension. I am sure such a great self proclaimed scholar must have the answers to the original questions about the claims made by him. I am sure he can explain what is meant by " next MDs ought to be deduced as is done in the case of Vimshottari. " if it does not mean " the " order " of KCD's MDs should copy the order of Vimshottari's MDs, " , as claimed by VJHa? What order is he talking about? I am sure the self proclaimed Sanskrit Scholar can throw light on this. If any other member also clarifies the apparent (to me at least) anomaly, I shall be grateful. It is very well to cast aspersions on others, as it may satisfy one's ego, but it might be a better idea to reply to specific queries in unamiguous terms. Name calling does not serve any purpose. I would appreciate a straightforward answer to a straightforward question. Chandrashekhar. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:17 AM, VJha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > > Vattem Krishnan Ji, > > BPHS (Chowkhambha edition) says " after deducing bhukta and bhogya > periods of birthtime MD of KCD, next MDs ought to be deduced as is done > in the case of Vimshottari. It does not mean the " order " of KCD's MDs > should copy the order of Vimshottari's MDs, because the order of KCD's > MDs has been elaborated in all editions of BPHS without ambiguity and > this order does not copy the order of Vimshottari. Why Mr Chandrashekhar > is deliberately distorting my statements becomes clear when he charges > my ID to be fake copies of persoms whom I do not know (utkal & c). The > fact is Mr Chandrashekha wrote something about KCD without reading all > versions of BPHS, and my crime was that I quoted from Chowkhambha > version which he had not read. Earlier, he refuted the existence of > mention of Vimshottari's reference in KCD chapter, but after I supplied > the verse he is distorting its meanings. This thread is no longer > serving any useful purpose. > > Although I am constantly on tour now-a-days, I check the mails almost > daily because I keep a laptop with modem always with me. There is no > question of my " disappearing " as Mr Chandrashekhar falsely charges. > > I was at an astrological conference in Sanskrit College, Hata, > Kushinagar, UP (Mar 13-15) and after that I am at Shataabdi Bhawan > (guest house of Sampoornanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi). As for my > fake ID, Mr Chandrashekhar can enquire from these institutions about my > fakeness. I do not knoe Mr Utkal. Mr Chandrashekhar should not level > baseless charges. > > -VJ > ================== ==== > <%40>, > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > wrote: > > > > > Sir, > > The topic assumes more importance in the light of Shri Tanvir Ji's > message as to the preference and results out of the various types of > dasas applied for analysing the charts and results there of.Though KCD > ha sit's own importance,there seems to be some void in it's uasage as > frequently one can adopt Vimsottari,Yogini and other like udu dasa. > >  KCD basically has it's own way  identifying dashas based > > on savya and apasavya nakshatras. > > For calculation of bhogya dasa you have mentioned Finally the sequence > followed for antar dasha seems to be borrowed from vimshottari dasa. > > Finally antar dasha calculations have been brought in BPHS and Phala > deepikapossibly some differences between them could be seen.taking > example Karaka and out lining dasha,anatar and pratyantar would have > provided more clarity.In a group environment continuity in discussions > looses order as some member raises some which probably not impinge on > main thread > > Prof Jha in the group has been active and is also involved in several > other academic pursuits.certainly he finds time as constriant and also > couple of time he finds problems in internet connectivity.I find by way > interaction and various views,an opportunity was extended to understand > intricacies of KCD.iam thankful to you for bringing out subtleties in > this system of KCD. > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling > services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can > Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > > > --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > <%40> > > Saturday, March 13, 2010, 2:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vattem Krishnan, > > > > > > > > I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to > comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. > > > > > > > > First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya > period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, > that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only > reiterating the obvious. > > > > > > > > Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the > order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order > of " AachaMkuraagushabu keshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not > the order followed in KCD at all. > > > > > > > > Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by > VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas > within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time > of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of > different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is > brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to > resurface when Utkal disappears. > > > > > > > > I hope you can now see what is happening. > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > - > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha > order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. > B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets > are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > Dear G B Prashant kumar, > > > > > > > > After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and > perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to > a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate > attention is also common. > > > > > > > > I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the > order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that > Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. > > > > > > > > Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That > shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But > then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do > not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade > answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under > another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma > Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. > > > > > > > > However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write > on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By > Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall > draw their own conclusions. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Dear chandrashekar ji > > > > > > > > If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN > CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no > offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the > same footing as he is > > > > > > > > and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point > clearly toreaders > > > > > > > > and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is > not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct > channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any > era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him > > > > > > > > and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without > geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask > questions > > > > > > > > we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as > he has been badly treated in many groups > > > > > > > > we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their > contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge > anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the > sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good > manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do > > > > > > > > if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it > will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about > learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be > reduced to dust soon. > > > > > > > > G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? > method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek h ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > > > I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask > something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. > Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of > BPHS. > > > > > > > > The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is > 100 chapters. > > > > > > > > Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the > shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving > only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead > of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I > never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and > sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring > to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in > a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. > > > > > > > > But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a > straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have > passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy > Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think > yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. > > > > > > > > I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not > yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the > one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other > (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have > read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your > arguments right. > > > > > > > > I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the > BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own > editions. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more > > > > > > > > interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of > jyotish " . > > > > > > > > But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority > > > > > > > > on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " > > > > > > > > Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others > have > > > > > > > > not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements > > > > > > > > on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of > > > > > > > > BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with > > > > > > > > all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a > > > > > > > > non-existent edition of BPHS ?? > > > > > > > > He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that > Kalachakra > > > > > > > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At > least > > > > > > > > the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of > > > > > > > > Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as > its > > > > > > > > Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : > > > > > > > > " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva > > > > > > > > raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " > > > > > > > > = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) > > > > > > > > bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki > > > > > > > > mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . > > > > > > > > My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in > > > > > > > > earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and > like > > > > > > > > the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. > > > > > > > > Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately > > > > > > > > mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or > > > > > > > > Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of > BPHS > > > > > > > > do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar > should > > > > > > > > distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was > > > > > > > > given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is > > > > > > > > published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological > books. > > > > > > > > Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of > > > > > > > > BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. > > > > > > > > I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 > Stanza > > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. " > > > > > > > > It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read > > > > > > > > BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the > > > > > > > > results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS > > > > > > > > carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I > > > > > > > > laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I > was > > > > > > > > getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) > : > > > > > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > > > > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > > > > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > > > > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > > > > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we > may > > > > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of > > > > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not read > > > > > > > > properly. " > > > > > > > > This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in > > > > > > > > BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present > at > > > > > > > > different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only > > > > > > > > two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, > > > > > > > > dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The > third > > > > > > > > chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses > which > > > > > > > > Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by > > > > > > > > them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of > > > > > > > > verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he > > > > > > > > failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar > failed > > > > > > > > to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and > knows > > > > > > > > only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how > many > > > > > > > > chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? > > > > > > > > RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a > > > > > > > > careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a > > > > > > > > thread or a book properly. > > > > > > > > I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at > present, > > > > > > > > because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two > > > > > > > > universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement > > > > > > > > does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows > everything. > > > > > > > > It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all > > > > > > > > non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even > > > > > > > > one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others > in > > > > > > > > the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be > > > > > > > > " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS > > > > > > > > ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems > > > > > > > > himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An > > > > > > > > authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of > > > > > > > > Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > ============ ======= === > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a > > > > > > > > rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the > > > > > > > > lists these days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in > > > > > > > > maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > Prashant Kumar G B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one > > > > > > > > goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone > > > > > > > > Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother > and > > > > > > > > who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, > > > > > > > > maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do > so.... > > > > > > > > > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity > > > > > > > > that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of > group > > > > > > > > reading hence this msg. > > > > > > > > > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal > > > > > > > > if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it > is > > > > > > > > a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such > > > > > > > > parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal > with > > > > > > > > them with composure, poise as always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? > method=reportRow \ > > > > > > > > s & tbl=6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the > > > > > > > > goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to > > > > > > > > Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather > > > > > > > > Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra > Jha > > > > > > > > edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that > Kalachakra > > > > > > > > dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At > least > > > > > > > > the shloka you quote does not say so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the > > > > > > > > Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please > > > > > > > > do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the > different > > > > > > > > editions of BPHS in existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have > > > > > > > > written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was > > > > > > > > restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of > > > > > > > > KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and > > > > > > > > are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in > > > > > > > > your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct > > > > > > > > question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand > > > > > > > > you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say > > > > > > > > it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should > > > > > > > > only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, > > > > > > > > that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have > > > > > > > > brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya > system, > > > > > > > > as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of > why > > > > > > > > and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you > seem > > > > > > > > to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others > > > > > > > > have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than > this > > > > > > > > jumping from one text to other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > > > > > > > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > > > > > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > > > > > > > Vimshottari. > > > > > > > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > > > > > > > > > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " > > > > > > > > (verse 88 > > > > > > > > > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has > > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > > > > > > > > > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > > > > > > > > > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of > > > > > > > > BPHS, > > > > > > > > > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > > > > > > > > > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of > > > > > > > > BPHS. > > > > > > > > > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not > > > > > > > > given up > > > > > > > > > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by > > > > > > > > Pt > > > > > > > > > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > > > > > > > > > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > > > > > > > > > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those > > > > > > > > threads. > > > > > > > > > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > > > > > > > > > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some > > > > > > > > pandit > > > > > > > > > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still > > > > > > > > at a > > > > > > > > > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is > > > > > > > > 100% > > > > > > > > > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > > > > > > > > > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > > > > > > > > > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not > > > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu > > > > > > > > book of > > > > > > > > > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious > > > > > > > > Telugu > > > > > > > > > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > > > > > > > > > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found > > > > > > > > PVR's > > > > > > > > > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > > > > > > > > > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > free to find additional sins in me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > > > > > > > > > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > > > > > > > > > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > > > > > > > > > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to > > > > > > > > mail > > > > > > > > > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mail to RC you also said > > > > > > > > > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > > > > > > > 37 > > > > > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > > > > > These > > > > > > > > > results are about MD. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the > > > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > > > > > > > > > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to > > > > > > > > Vimshottari. > > > > > > > > > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > > > > > > > > > relevance here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > > > > > > > > > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the > > > > > > > > order > > > > > > > > > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > > > > > > > > > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of > > > > > > > > us to > > > > > > > > > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > > > > > > > > > saying? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > > > > > > > > > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > > > > > > > > > wrote > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > > > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > > > > > > > > verses > > > > > > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > > > > > > > > felt > > > > > > > > > > that the topic was on AD. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > > > > > > > > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > > > > > > > > > " rightly " > > > > > > > > > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > > > > > > > > > " editor " . > > > > > > > > > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > > > > > > > > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > > > > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > > > > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly > > > > > > > > labeled > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > > > > > > > > > PrD. > > > > > > > > > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > > > > > > > > > deduced > > > > > > > > > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > > > > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > > > > > > > > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > > > > > > > > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > twelve > > > > > > > > > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > > > > > > > > > take it > > > > > > > > > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine > > > > > > > > SDs > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > > > > > > > > > so, > > > > > > > > > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > > > > > > > > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > > > > > > > > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > > > > > > > > Pt > > > > > > > > > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > > > > > > > > > message because you brought my statements out of context and > > > > > > > > changed > > > > > > > > > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > > > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > > aim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > > > > > > > > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that > > > > > > > > thread, > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > > > > > > > > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > > > > > > > > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > > > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > > > > > > > > > copied > > > > > > > > > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to > > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a > > > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > > > > > > > > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second > > > > > > > > pada > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > > > > > > > > > BPHS > > > > > > > > > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > > > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I > > > > > > > > gave > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > > > > > > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in > > > > > > > > LCD. > > > > > > > > > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > > > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > > > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > > > > > > > > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, > > > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > > > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of > > > > > > > > Kalchakradasha > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > > > > > > > > > specifically > > > > > > > > > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > > > > > > > > > verse > > > > > > > > > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > > > > > > > > > bhaume---- " > > > > > > > > > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any > > > > > > > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas > > > > > > > > pretty > > > > > > > > > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are > > > > > > > > sought > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > > > > > > > > > scheme. > > > > > > > > > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > > > > > > > > > KCD'S > > > > > > > > > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > > > > > > > > > deduced > > > > > > > > > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in > > > > > > > > Karka > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > > > > > > > > > dasha > > > > > > > > > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > > > > > > > > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > > > > > > > > > follows > > > > > > > > > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > > > > > > > > > Parashara > > > > > > > > > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct > > > > > > > > method > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already > > > > > > > > answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > > > > > > > > > " Please > > > > > > > > > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > > > > > > > > > dasa > > > > > > > > > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > > > > > > > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > > > > > > > > > elucidation > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > > > > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > > > > > > > > > " antardashaa " . > > > > > > > > > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > verses > > > > > > > > > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who > > > > > > > > rightly > > > > > > > > > > felt > > > > > > > > > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to > > > > > > > > pick > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > > > > > > > > > KCD. > > > > > > > > > > PVR > > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > > > > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > > > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring > > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > > > > > > > > > notice, > > > > > > > > > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ==== === > > > > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > > > > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > > > > > > > > > BPHS > > > > > > > > > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > > > > > > > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > move > > > > > > > > > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of > > > > > > > > AD > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to > > > > > > > > deduce > > > > > > > > > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > > > > > > > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > > > > > > > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > > > > > > > > > Jeeva > > > > > > > > > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > > > > > > > > > alone. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > > > > > > > > > AD > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya > > > > > > > > containing > > > > > > > > > > 37 > > > > > > > > > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > > > > > > > > > These > > > > > > > > > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in > > > > > > > > KCD, > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > > > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > > > > > > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > > > > > > > > > swami.rcs@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > > > > > > > > > Sequence > > > > > > > > > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a > > > > > > > > Pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > > > > > > > > > Stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > > > > > > > > > AD > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > very important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Dear Vattem Krishnan, KCD is an important dasha and there is no doubt about that. The use and order are clearly given in many texts. Yet there is difference of opinion amongst the knowledgeable ones. My only problem is that I do not find a clear cut answer to any question from VJha despite of voluminous mails that he writes. Every time a question is asked he evades answers and writes voluminous mails and refers to some other text instead of quoting from the text about which his original comments are made. This constantly shifting of position in response to specific questions and reiteration of others not being able to understand what the texts say, much like the other two gentleman's mails, does not help the cause of understanding jyotish. I am sure you have read the original thread and the order of Karka dasha given by him but when asked about it he says it refers to ashvinyadi 2 and on asking him where it is given in BPHS, his shifting to other texts itself indicates that all is not well in the state of Denmark as they say. Even today I find him hurling insults my way without giving the entire shloka, or answering my queries. The insistence that his version must be accepted without his answering polite questions is irrational, if I may say so. I am sure anyone who reads our correspondence shall agree that he has till now not answered any of the direct questions, including the one about his assertion that antardashas of KCD are not mentioned in BPHS and so on. Regards, Chandrashekhar. - Vattem Krishnan Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:18 AM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Sir, The topic assumes more importance in the light of Shri Tanvir Ji's message as to the preference and results out of the various types of dasas applied for analysing the charts and results there of.Though KCD ha sit's own importance,there seems to be some void in it's uasage as frequently one can adopt Vimsottari,Yogini and other like udu dasa. KCD basically has it's own way identifying dashas based on savya and apasavya nakshatras. For calculation of bhogya dasa you have mentioned Finally the sequence followed for antar dasha seems to be borrowed from vimshottari dasa. Finally antar dasha calculations have been brought in BPHS and Phala deepikapossibly some differences between them could be seen.taking example Karaka and out lining dasha,anatar and pratyantar would have provided more clarity.In a group environment continuity in discussions looses order as some member raises some which probably not impinge on main thread Prof Jha in the group has been active and is also involved in several other academic pursuits.certainly he finds time as constriant and also couple of time he finds problems in internet connectivity.I find by way interaction and various views,an opportunity was extended to understand intricacies of KCD.iam thankful to you for bringing out subtleties in this system of KCD. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Saturday, March 13, 2010, 2:50 PM Dear Vattem Krishnan, I had decided to stop responding to VJha. However since you want me to comment. There are three things that perhaps you are missing. First: I think the shloka referred to tells that the bhukta and bhogya period of Mahadasha in the same manner as done for Vimshottari dasha, that is on the basis of bhukta and bhogya degrees. This is only reiterating the obvious. Second: This does not mean that the kalachakra mahadasha follow the order of Vimshottari dashas. Had that been so they would be in the order of " AachaMkuraagushabu keshu " . I am sure you will agree that this is not the order followed in KCD at all. Third: The thread began with a certain order given for Karka dasha, by VJha, and assertion that BPHS does not specifically mention antardashas within KCD Mahadashas. Answer to this is being by-passed since the time of first mail. Only thing that is being done is to give names of different texts and every time absence of answer to specific queries is brought into focus, one Utkal answering and VJHa disappearing, only to resurface when Utkal disappears. I hope you can now see what is happening. Regards. Chandrashekhar - Vattem Krishnan Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:30 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Sir, What you reiterate has nothing to neagate//Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha//. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:12 PM Dear G B Prashant kumar, After reading Utkal's mail today, it is obvious that he, Lalit and perhaps even VJha are the same person. The pattern of not responding to a direct question and trying to name different texts, to deviate attention is also common. I have also read Rohini Ranjan's mail. I only asked to justify the order of Karka ashivinyaadi Mahadasha and where Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadasha order should follow Vimshottari Mahadasha. Instead of replying half shloka from Chaukhamba edition is given. That shloka gives how to calculate balance of mahadasha period at birth. But then comes the accusation that I do not understand the shlokas and do not read books. I do not mind if any one thinks that, but to evade answers and ask some one else (or the same person answering under another name) to answer with name of some other text (Padmanabha Sharma Tika) is not going to change the fact of the matter. However as this pursuit of truth is leading nowhere, I shall not write on this matter again. I would only state that the proposition made By Vinayji are not supported his arguments. I am sure the learned shall draw their own conclusions. Chandrashekhar. - Prashant Kumar G B Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear chandrashekar ji If i recall right Vinay ji has a different version of BPHS than IN CIRCULATION CALLE CHOWkam or so if ai m wrong Vinay ji pl correct me, no offence meant and it is there in sanskrit,, Hindi so we r not on the same footing as he is and u r right in asking for the full sloka to present any point clearly toreaders and Utkal,lalit is no ones friend he likes bashing any line that is not in tune with his whims and fancies [at times calls it mothers direct channel to him though] he has not spared any rishim or astrologer of any era so far so we r all small fish/inscets to him and Vinay ji has some info and i hope he can present his case without geting confused on being questioned we in this group want to know so ask questions we r not questioning him a such I've assured him manytimes on this as he has been badly treated in many groups we have given all a fair chance and leave the judgement on their contrubition, net worth to the public wer r all too small to judge anyone the subject is so wide, and much more widely spread in the sub-continent so we must accept, test any view that comes in a good manner than challange, abuses as utkal and th elike do if they present all their cases with good samples, supporting info it will be good for us. we r all open to know, learn, life is about learning till then end for us. if we forget this surely we will be reduced to dust soon. G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashek h ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, March 11, 2010 11:17:35 PM Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods Dear Vinayji, I do not understand why you need others to defend you. When I ask something you try to evade the question and do not give a direct answer. Someone named Utkal then tells me to read Padmanaabha Sharma's Tika of BPHS. The 1000 chapters that are referred to in my post is a misprint. It is 100 chapters. Why not give both the shlokas that are said to indicate that the shloka you refer to indeed refers to kalachakra dasha instead of giving only half part of a shloka? That would better prove your point instead of giving half a shloka? Since you are a scholar of Sanskrit (which I never claimed to be) you must know the importance of both anvaya and sandarbha while interpreting Sanskrit shlokas. I am sure it is referring to how to calculate the beginning of dasha based on the degrees past in a nakshatra and not the order of Mahadasha as is being suggested by you. But since till now you have never given a straight answer to a straight question, I know it is futile to argue with you. You have passed comments like me not having read books etc through your proxy Utkal and also your self many a times. That is why I surmise you think yourself to be the greatest authority on KCD. I will take G B Prashant's advise and stop responding as you have not yet indicated how ashvinyaadi 2nd charana Karka rashi dasha order is the one that you gave, even now. Please do not ask me to read some other (according to you) text that only you or Utkal or whosoever you are have read. Writing voluminous mails with wrong charges does not make your arguments right. I am sure the readers of this discussions who also possess many of the BPHS editions will draw the right conclusions when they read their own editions. Chandrashekhar. - VJha Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:17 AM Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods To GB Prashant Ji and Chandrashekhar Ji : Mr Chandrashekhar Ji makes a fine statement : " people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . But he says to me : " you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. " Where I said I am the only authority on KCD. When did I say others have not read any texts ? Why Mr Chandrashekhar is making false statements on my behalf ? Is his tyle of discussing " finer points of jyotish " ??? I am surprised with his false claims : " I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. " Why he does not name the publisher of such a non-existent edition of BPHS ?? He also says : " the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. He lacks the knowledge of Sanskrit, hence I am quoting the original Sanskrit verse as well as its Hindi translation in Chowkhamba edition : " Labdham bhukta-varshaadi bhogyam tasmaat prasaadhyet / Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa. " = " tasmaat (ie,remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse) bhogya varshaadi laakar Vimshottari ki tarah agrim raasheeyon ki mahaadashaa lagaani chaahiye " . My translation : From the remainder of computations mentioned in earlier verse, find the remaining years from the elapsed years and like the Vimshottari find out the mahadashaa of coming nine raashis. Why Mr Chandrashekhar misleads this forum by deliberately mis-translating this verse ?? He can take the help of any Sanskrit or Hindi scholar if he does not know these languages. All editions of BPHS do not contain this verse, but it does not mean Mr Chandrashekhar should distort the meaning of this verse. The Hindi meaning given above was given by Pt Devachandra Jha, a reputed Sanskrit scholar, which is published by Chowkhamba, world's largest publisher of indological books. Above example shows Mr Chandrashekhar did not read this edition of BPHS. But the following example of his " erudition " proves Mr Chandrashekhar did not read any edition of BPHS carefully. I was told at the beginning of this thread by RCS : " BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD alone. " It is a wrong statement which convinced me RCS had not properly read BPHS. The actual number of verses is 58 and not 56 which describe the results of KCD's AD alone. To test whether RCS actually read BPHS carefully or not, I posted the following message which was a trap (I laid this trap to test the depth of members in this thread because I was getting weird messages concerning this thread at my private email ID) : " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD,we may assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method of computation has been explained in my article which you have not read properly. " This passage did not mention that there are three chapters on KCD in BPHS, of which one (Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) is present at different locations in some editions. In above para, I mentioned only two chapters of BPHS containing 55 and 37 verses about KCD (ie, dashaa-bhedaadhyaay a and Kaalachakra- navaamsha- phalaadhyaaya) . The third chapter Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya contains 58 verses which Mr RCS and Mr Chandrashekhar have certainly seen, but I was told by them that this chapter has only 56 stanzas. Stanza is a collection of verses. RCS ought to have written 56 verses and not 56 stanzas. Why he failed to count 58 and reported 56 only ?? Why Mr Chandrashekhar failed to report that Vinay Jha is ignorant of three chapters in BPHS and knows only two chapters ?? Thus, he failed the test. Did he not know how many chapters are in BPHS about KCD ?? RCS is a good person. I have no grudge against him, or against Mr Chandrashekhar either. The only point is that Mr Chandrashekhar is a careless reader who hurries to conclusions without caring to read a thread or a book properly. I said earlier that I am not going to describe KCD in detail at present, because I am going to deliver lectures at four conferences in two universities in UP, followed by Haridwar and Delhi. This statement does not mean I know everything. No one in this forum knows everything. It is not me but Mr Chandrashekhar who claims to have read all non-existent 1000 chapters of BPHS !! He cannot show proofs of even one-tenth of this number. This extravagant statement means all others in the world know only 97 or 98 or 99 chapters of BPHS, while Mr Chandrashekhar knows 1000 chapters !! Yet this person charges me to be " maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish " . Mr Chandrashekhar is a person unable to understand a single line in BPHS ( " Vimshottareeva raasheenaam navaanaamstat- mahaadashaa " ), yet deems himself an authority on KCD because he writes books on KCD !! An authority on BPHS must learn, at least, how to read Sanskrit texts of Jyotisha, because reliance on translators leads to pitfalls. -VJ ============ ======= === , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Prashant Kumar, > > Is that so? That is why I got mail from Utkal when I wrote a rejoinder to Vinayji. Seems like there are too many fake ids on the lists these days. > > That is so sad. it seems these days people are more interested in maligning others than discussing finer points of jyotish. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > > > - > Prashant Kumar G B > > Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:06 AM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > Dear Chandrashekar ji,Members > > u must know Lalit Misra alias Utkal panigrahi has one and only one goal that he is the only one in the universe be it from any bygone Yoga/era to now who knows all as he is in direct contact to a mother and who tells him what to do, rest of them r jukt to ro be mud slinged, maligned, abused by him again the only one who is empowered to do so.... > and now he has been targeting PVN ji on several counts it is a pity that one can descend to such lows not all his messages r worthy of group reading hence this msg. > he wont spare any living or dead astrologer,scholar so no big deal if u read any abusive mails in any fake NAME. if they get approved it is a mistake but not a intention to malign any member here > > as all old members r free -unmoderated and every group has such parasites-using fake ID's so be prepared and also know we can deal with them with composure, poise as always > > .- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow \ s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekh ar > > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM > Re: Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Dear Vinayji, > > You seem to change the goal post every time some one comes near the goal. Was it not you who first said that there is no reference to Antardasha when I had given the title of Sitaram Jha or rather Kheladilal edition? So now why the sudden quote from the Devachandra Jha edition? Any way the shloka you are quoting does not say that Kalachakra dasha should be deduced in accordance with Vimshottari dashas. At least the shloka you quote does not say so. > > I have many more editions of BPHS with me including even the Ganeshdatta Pathaka one, and one with all the 1000 chapters. So please do not assume that everybody other than you is unaware of the different editions of BPHS in existence. > > You are again referring to the other threads on which you have written, whereas I have made it amply clear that my response was restricted to the original thread where you wrote that antar dashas of KCD are not mentioned but Sitaram Jha only deduced so. > > I can sense that you do not want to respond to direct question and are now attributing the dasha sequence to Narasimha where as it was in your mail. It is apparent you do not believe in answering a direct question and skirting it by writing voluminous mails. On the one hand you quote Devchandra Jha commentary in your support and then again say it is not complete. If that is so, why the insistence that one should only interpret the KCD on the basis of what is said there. > > I have read PhaladIpika and it is not the only text, besides BPHS, that gives Kalchakra dasha There are many more. But now that you have brought up that subject, do you draw KCD according to the Vakya system, as indicated by Mantreshvar and if so how? Why not give examples of why and how Vakya differs from normal panchanga calculations, since you seem to imply that you are the only authority on KCD and imply that others have not read any texts. That may help jyotish fraternity more than this jumping from one text to other. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar > > - > VJha > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:59 PM > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > You wrote : > > <<< > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > >>> > > You have not read the Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha which > says : " Vimshottariva raasheenaam navaanaam syaat-mahaadashaa " (verse 88 > in the chapter Dashaabhedaadhyaaya ). Please read it. > > Your citation of the words " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " has again > convinced me that you are perhaps ignorant of differences in various > editions of BHPS. In many fora (mostly in another forum) including > this, I had started some discussed threads on various editions of BPHS, > and had announced my plan to collect all published editions and > available manuscripts of BPHS for publishing a critical edition of BPHS. > No internet user has helped in this plan so far, but I have not given up > this plan. In those threads, I said the Chowkhamba edition edited by Pt > Devachandra Jha is based on largest number on manuscripts and is > therefore most authentic, although it contains only 98 chapters and two > chapters and many verses in other chapters are missing or less than > satisfactory. Some other editions were also discussed in those threads. > Your verse " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " does not occur anywhere in > the edition I found to be most authentic. Pt Sitaram Jha was (ill-) > famous for inventing new meanings on unsound foundations. Some pandit > has rewritten many verses of BPHS during modern age and I am still at a > loss to identify that pandit/pandits. > > I do not believe that Chowkhamba edition by Pt Devachandra Jha is 100% > accurate. I want a critical edition taking help from all available > sources. Edition or translating is a small part, the main problem is > collection of various variants of BPHS. > > I had said that the article on KCD was not an independent article but > merely copied from my answer to PVR in another forum. I have not written > any comprehensive article or even a full summary of KCD. As for AD, I > did not give my own opinion on computing ADs because PVR also did not > explain his own ; he simply said his method is based on a Telugu book of > 1930 and he does not know the source of that book. Either PVR has not > read Phaladeepikaa or does not respect it and values a dubious Telugu > book more than traditionally respected texts. If you have not read > Phaladeepikaa, please read it , you will find it to be in harmony with > BPHS and it elaborates the missing points of BPHS as far as KCD AD is > concerned. I am not going to write any article on this point, even if > you repeat your charges of dishonesty on me. > > Asd far as " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6 " is concerned, it was the sequence of > PVR against the wrong sequence given by Pt Sanjay Rath. I found PVR's > sequence to be in harmony with BPHS. If you are really interested in > knowing the sequences of KCD MD/Ad, read Phaladeepikaa. If not, you are > free to find additional sins in me. > > You said : " I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not > have any reason to distort anyone's statements. " No software maker has > ever tried to distort my statements. Now I believe you are not > deliberately distorting my statements. The fault lies in your belief in > certain edition and ignorance of other editions of BPHS. It is not my > fault for which you are accusing me of falsehood and dishonesty. As for > RCS, I was not merely provoking him to study properly, because he was > citing BPHS's 56 non-existent verses on AD's phala !!! > > All your doubts will be answered in Phaladeepikaa. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , " Chandrashekhar " > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote: > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I have read your voluminous response. Actually that is the very reason > I usually do not like to enter into arguments on the lists. > > > > I am sad that you think I am distorting your statement. There is no > need to do so. I pasted what you said in the mail, while attributing > quotes to you. That you choose to change your stand from mail to mail > makes it difficult to continue this argument. But for the record in the > mail to RC you also said > > " Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of AD in > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be right of > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing 37 > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. These > results are about MD. " > > > > So you yourself said that BPHS does not mention antardashas. When I > give you shloka to show that antar dasha is mentioned in BPHS, you want > to go off on a tangent about PD,SD, and so on. Even now you insist on > your stand and say " I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but > Pt Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. " Why not explain what > is meant by " MeshaaMshe svaantare bhaume... " if the word antar is not > mentioning antardasha, what does is it mentioning and where is the guess > work on part of Sitaram Jha? > > > > Now you are saying Parashara said that Kalachakra Mahadashas should > follow Vimshottari pattern. Your sentence is " In a previous chapter, > Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be deduced according to Vimshottari. > " Why not give the shloka and chapter number and verse number to support > your argument? That would support what you are saying. > > > > I do not think what arguments are going on other forum are of any > relevance here. > > > > You have still not answered my original question of variation of > antardasha order for Karka. You say there more karka Mahadashas, with > different order, that I agree. So why not give a few with whom the order > of antardasha given by you matches and also indicate why it would not > match the Karka Mahadasha order for the nakshatra given and also what > Mahadasha order with Karka Mahadasha cycle follows the order that you > suggest where with antardasha following the same order would be > " 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. " as claimed by you. That may allow all of us to > learn more than accusing me of deliberately distorting what you are > saying? > > > > I do not think merely saying people are not understanding you or that > they are quoting out of context or they are deliberately distorting > what you say and they do not read your article does not prove your point > at all. I do not create any sort of astro software so I do not have any > reason to distort anyone's statements. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > VJha > > > > Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:42 AM > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Sharma Ji, > > > > You are deliberately distorting my words to invert my meanings. I > wrote > > : > > > > <<< > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > " antardashaa " . > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > verses > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > felt > > that the topic was on AD. > > >>> > > > > I said BPHS does not mention the word " antardasha " but the editor > > rightly felt that the topic was on AD. You overlooked the word > " rightly " > > and tried to distort my statement. > > > > Another mistake by you is that you read " editors " instead of > " editor " . > > Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled that chapter as AD, but Chowkhamba > > edition by Pt Devachandra Jha correctly labels it as > > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " . Why you assume all editors are > > unanimous ? Pt Sitaram Jha was a good pandit but too enthusiastic at > > many places. The first verse in that chapter says it is on > > " Kaalachakra- dashaaphalam " . Hence, this chapter was wrongly labeled > as > > AD by Pt Sitaram Jha, because it is actually about AD, PD, SD and > PrD. > > In a previous chapter, Sage Parashara says KCD's MD should be > deduced > > according to Vimshottari. There too, the mention of MD implies there > > must be lower periods. In the chapter > " Kaalachakra- dashaa-phalaadhy aaya " > > which Pt Sitaram Jha wrongly labeled as > > " Kaalachakra- antardashaa- phalaadhyaaya " , nine sub-periods of all > twelve > > raashis are mentioned, which you construe as only for AD while I > take it > > for nine ADs for raashis of MD, nine PDs for raashis of AD, nine SDs > for > > raashis of PD, and nine PranDs for raashis of SD. Had it not been > so, > > the text would have mentioned AD instead of KCD in general at the > > beginning of this chapter. > > > > My reply to RCS was merely to induce him to read my article before > > discussing. I still repeat AD is nowhere " mentioed " in BPHS, but Pt > > Sitaram Jha " rightly " guessed AD was implied. You misunderstood my > > message because you brought my statements out of context and changed > > some words to distort my meanings. This type of dialogue is used > when > > you want to vanquish an opponent and understanding others is not > one's > > aim. > > > > Discussion on KCD was going on in another forum (vedic astrology) > > between other members and PVR Narasimha Rao. Concerning that thread, > I > > had some correspondences with PVR Narasimha Rao Ji at my private > email > > ID (I had complained about defects in default KCD in JHORA). He > > clarified that JHORA has many defaults according to Sanjay Rath's > > scheme which PVR does not deem fit, and PVR's own method is given > under > > the option " Raghavacharya Method " . After this correspondence, I > copied > > parts of my message to him and posted it at my own website. Then, I > > informed this forum about that webpage. I had no intention to start > any > > discussion thread in this forum. Since my article was merely a part > of > > my message to PVR, the AD mentioned in my article was merely an > > elucidation of that case which PVR had mentioned in his thread in > > vedic astrology (about which he has very heated differences with his > > Guru Pt Sanjay Rath). Mr Rath gives a wrong sequence of second pada > of > > Ashwinyaadi while PVR gave a correct sequence which I supported. > BPHS > > gives 15 sequences out of 16, and this Ashwinyaadi- 2 was missing in > > BPHS. In my article, I elaborated how this missing sequence should > be > > reconstructed along the scheme of BPHS. It is not my discovery. > Since > > the discussion was on Ashwinyaadi- 2 (10,11,12,8, 7,6,4,5,3) , I gave > an > > example of Karka MD's nine ADs from this sequence as > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. This is not the only type of Karka MD in LCD. > > Karka navamsha is present in 12 out of 16 sequences, hence there > will be > > twelve types of Karka MD. I am giving the whole list at my webpage > to > > clear the confusion. I have too many tasks and I hardly find time to > > write articles now-a-days. My article on KCD is not even a summary > of > > all important aspects of KCD and much is wanting in it. Only the > basic > > scheme was outlined in it, and the sole purpose of this article was > to > > prove the validity of A-2 sequence (Ashwinyaadi- 2 : > > 10,11,12,8,7, 6,4,5,3) which PVR is holding against Pt Sanjay Rath > and > > against Sri Jyoti Star. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > I generally do not like to get into an argument match, especially > on > > lists. Yet, I do not understand how you presumed that I have not > read > > out what you wrote. I merely said that antardashas of Kalchakradasha > are > > mentioned in BPHS and gave you the page number since you > specifically > > said that BPHS does not have them. > > > > > > You are saying that the adhyaaya on antardashas is assumed to be > of > > antardasha by the editors and claim that Parashara did not write any > > verses that can lead the editors to it. You may like to read the > verse > > at page 380 of the same edition where " MeshaMshe svaantare > bhaume---- " > > is written and the mention of antardasha is there beyond any doubt. > > > > > > Parashara has given the method of calculating Aantardashas pretty > > unambiguously and anyone who reads the BPHS properly can make out > what > > he is saying. I too think that un necessary complications are sought > to > > be brought in about drawing of antardashas especially in the KCD > scheme. > > But then I see you have given something called Karka mahadasha of > KCD'S > > Antardasha order as 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. > > > > > > Your statement is the article is- " Antardashaas (AD) should be > deduced > > likewise according to Vimshottari scheme, ie Karka mahadasha will > have > > Karka AD as the first AD producing following sequence of AD in Karka > : > > 4,5,3,10,11, 12,8,7,6. Pratyantara & c may be deduced likewise. " > > > > > > May I ask you whether this is the order of antardashas if the > dasha > > order begins from BharaNi 4th pada where the order of KCD is > > 4,5,3,2,1,12, 11,10 and 9, that is it begins with Karka? If it > follows > > the order given by you , how does it fit in with the manner > Parashara > > told to look at the Antardasha in Vimshottari scheme? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > VJha > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:39 PM > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > Without reading my article in which I described the method of > > working > > > out MD, AD, PD, etc of KCD besides elucidating the correct method > of > > > making sequences, RCS was asking questions I had already answered. > > > > > > RCS said he read my article, yet he asked two wrong question s : > > " Please > > > educate how you work out AD and How you move to next Sequence of > > dasa > > > once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. " To it, I > > > replied : " The very purpose of writing this article was > elucidation > > of > > > those very topics which you are asking " . Yet you failed to see the > > > point and intruded, like RCS, without reading the thread and my > > article > > > properly. > > > > > > BPHS mentions " mahaadashaa " but does not mention the word > > " antardashaa " . > > > The title " kalachakraantardas haaphalaadhyaaya " is not a part of > > verses > > > written by Sage Parashara but the handiwork of editor who rightly > > felt > > > that the topic was on AD. I was sure RCS would have failed to pick > > up > > > this point, but you helped him out. > > > > > > Now-a-days there are various innovations being introduced into > KCD. > > PVR > > > Narasimha Rao recently described this state of confusion, after > > which I > > > provided the link to my article in two fora. I tried to bring out > > the > > > original scheme of Sage Parashara which no member has cared to > > notice, > > > including you and RCS. This scheme has already been worked out in > > > Kundalee Software. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ==== === > > > , " Chandrashekhar " > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay, > > > > > > > > I would not interject but for your statement that BPHS does not > > > mention antardashas in KCD. You have said " Can you show me where > > BPHS > > > has mentioned even the existence of AD in KCD ? " > > > > > > > > Please read page number 358 which has an adhyaaya called > > > kalachakraantardash aaphalaadhyaaya, in Sitaram Jha edition. I am > > sure > > > you will find the results of KCD antardasha phalas there. > > > > > > > > So RC ji is right. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > > > VJha > > > > > > > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:28 PM > > > > Re: Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To RCS : > > > > > > > > The very purpose of writing this article was elucidation of > those > > > very topics which you are asking : " how you work out AD and How > you > > move > > > to next Sequence " . > > > > > > > > It seems you have not read this article fully. The method of AD > > has > > > already been described with example. Those who know how to deduce > > > Vimshottari AD or PD will find no difficulty in understanding my > > > comments. Some modern astrologers are spreading confusion about > > > Shashthaashta- gati motion (6 to 11, 3 to 10 and vice versa) which > is > > > seen in Savya sequences (A, B) of pada-2. > > > > > > > > I am surprised with your statement " Apart from Gati, Deha and > > Jeeva > > > and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 Stanza describing results of AD > alone. " > > > > > > > > Can you show me where BPHS has mentioned even the existence of > AD > > in > > > KCD ? The very idea of AD in KCD is a conjecture which may be > right > > of > > > wrong. BPHS has a separate chapter on KCD-phalaadhyaaya containing > > 37 > > > verse, besides 55 verses about Phala in initial chapter on KCD. > > These > > > results are about MD. Since BPHS has clearly mentioned MD in KCD, > we > > may > > > assume the existence of AD, PD, SD and PrD as well. Their method > of > > > computation has been explained in my article which you have not > read > > > properly. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= === > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > > > > , " R C Srivastava " > > swami.rcs@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear VJ, > > > > > Excellent summary OF KCD for those who have studied it . > > > > > Please educate how you work out AD and How you move to next > > > Sequence > > > > > of dasa once native has reached to end of ABC OR D IN a Pada. > > > > > Apart from Gati, Deha and Jeeva and KCD NAVAMSA BPHS has 56 > > Stanza > > > > > describing results of AD alone. Therefore correct working of > AD > > is > > > very important. > > > > > With regards. > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Kaala-chakra Dashaa : Scheme and Sub-periods > > > > > Posted by: " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ vinayjhaa16 > > > > > Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:16 pm ((PST)) > > > > > > > > > > To All : > > > > > > > > > > See the following webpage for elucidation of KCD : > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Kalachakra- dashaa > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I am leaving untouched the thread-header because it was one of those rare and rather brilliant bolts of lightning of TRUTH that struck the jyotish forum, if we were paying attention! ;-) THOR is the Greek name for Jupiter and from time to time he strikes from the Mount Olympia where He lives and rules from! So when thunder-bolts arrive, pay attention to those and let those emanate from wherever your jupiter is placed in! That is -- if you are the type that is overly obsessed with your personal horoscope, as most seem to be! Tut tut!! And accordingly, the other planets (lights, bodies and shadows!) as well according to their rather clearly laid out mandates in jyotish scriptures! While avoiding the 'fitnaas' that show up in holy garbs! Look what Christianity and Vatican is going through in this very time of current transits! Obama's medical bill passed! USA is on to a new height of democracy! Rohiniranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 <<<<< I am leaving untouched the thread-header because it was one of those rare and rather brilliant bolts of lightning of TRUTH that struck the jyotish forum, if we were paying attention! >>>>> Unfortunately, instead of discussing the thread, the topic was diverted to sabre-rattling. I refrained from adding any positive content because no one was serious. KCD is among least explored topics of Jyotisha and needs more attention than we give. -VJ ========================== === , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > I am leaving untouched the thread-header because it was one of those rare and rather brilliant bolts of lightning of TRUTH that struck the jyotish forum, if we were paying attention! ;-) > > THOR is the Greek name for Jupiter and from time to time he strikes from the Mount Olympia where He lives and rules from! > > So when thunder-bolts arrive, pay attention to those and let those emanate from wherever your jupiter is placed in! That is -- if you are the type that is overly obsessed with your personal horoscope, as most seem to be! Tut tut!! > > And accordingly, the other planets (lights, bodies and shadows!) as well according to their rather clearly laid out mandates in jyotish scriptures! > > While avoiding the 'fitnaas' that show up in holy garbs! Look what Christianity and Vatican is going through in this very time of current transits! > > Obama's medical bill passed! USA is on to a new height of democracy! > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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