Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:26 PM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:19 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > " being the unchanging ground of the changing " ......why not > > > directly..... " being the CREATOR of the changing " ....or other > > > non-sense..... > > > > > > geo> Sounds OK. So are you. Why nonesense? > > > > > > sorry...i can't hear anymore such fantastic statements..... > > > and this fantastic egos staying/claiming to be the ground of > > > whatever..... > > > > > > geo> What can I do? > > > > > > ..... > > > > > > would say that " geo " is the ground of himself....and if you > > > want..... " geo " , > > > included the unchanging, is the ground of himself > > > > > > geo> Geo is just a label for comunication purposes. > > > > lol > > > > what is your ground about? > > > > Marc > > > > ...ground about? Dont understand the question. > > -geo- > > > > > what is the ground of " geo " ? > > > Marc Geo, as a person? Imagination isn't grounded in anything. Or one could say, it's grounded in " self and other " , which is the flimsy basis from which much of mankind's 'thrashing about' takes place. -tim- Imagination isn't grounded in anything??? Is it in some " other " universe? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:28 PM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:59 AM > Re: The Absolute > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > wwoehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > -dt- > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > -geo > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > Werner > > > > OK > > -geo- > > That which we call " change " could certainly be called unchanging, as > change > never ceases changing ;-). > -t- > > That is the " I am all " stand, or all is consciousness. > -geo- There's no need to take a stand, and in fact no way to do so. Thoughts arise, including notions like " I am taking a stand here " . No 'stand' ever actually happened, anywhere. The illusion that a " stand " could happen, is social, is based on " self and other " , and is imaginary. -tim- Did not like it? Call it no-stand then. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:37 AM > Re: The Absolute > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:19 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > " being the unchanging ground of the changing " ......why not > > > directly..... " being the CREATOR of the changing " ....or other > > > non-sense..... > > > > > > geo> Sounds OK. So are you. Why nonesense? > > > > > > sorry...i can't hear anymore such fantastic statements..... > > > and this fantastic egos staying/claiming to be the ground of > > > whatever..... > > > > > > geo> What can I do? > > > > > > ..... > > > > > > would say that " geo " is the ground of himself....and if you > > > want..... " geo " , > > > included the unchanging, is the ground of himself > > > > > > geo> Geo is just a label for comunication purposes. > > > > lol > > > > what is your ground about? > > > > Marc > > > > ...ground about? Dont understand the question. > > -geo- > > > > what is the ground of " geo " ? > > Marc > > Geo is a symbol that represents a localized organism/brain. > Geos ground is consciousness and consciusness's ground is awareness. > -geo- > No Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > wwoehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > -dt- > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > -geo > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > Werner > > > > OK > > -geo- > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > ~A > this one is nice....realy..... thanks Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:30 PM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > wwoehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > -dt- > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > -geo > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > Werner > > > > OK > > -geo- > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > ~A > this one is nice....realy..... thanks Marc So you prefer being instead of ground or awareness.. Why didn't you say so? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > wwoehr > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > OK > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > > > ~A > > > > > this one is nice....realy..... > > thanks > > > Marc > It's a *keeper* then? ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > wwoehr > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > OK > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > this one is nice....realy..... > > > > thanks > > > > > > Marc > > > > > It's a *keeper* then? > > ~A Look away from the screen for a sec... Where did the *keeper* (with asterisks and all!) go? Sheeeeeeesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > wwoehr > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > this one is nice....realy..... > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > It's a *keeper* then? > > > > ~A > > Look away from the screen for a sec... > > Where did the *keeper* (with asterisks and all!) go? > > Sheeeeeeesh. > I put things like that in my chipmunk cheeks. :-8 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > wwoehr > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 AM > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > > > > > > -dt- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being the unchanging ground of the changing. > > > > > > > -geo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no unchanging ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being is the unchanging ground of dissolution. > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this one is nice....realy..... > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a *keeper* then? > > > > > > ~A > > > > Look away from the screen for a sec... > > > > Where did the *keeper* (with asterisks and all!) go? > > > > Sheeeeeeesh. > > > > > I put things like that in my chipmunk cheeks. > > :-8 > > toombaru Go play with something shiny ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:53 AM > Re: The Absolute > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:01 PM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put all the states and all the capitols on the list. > > > > > > I put all the countries and all the cities that I can remember. > > > > > > I include the rives and the oceans. > > > > > > I list all the animals that science has named. > > > > > > I try to remember everything that I learned in school and everything > > > that > > > my teachers and parents told me. > > > > > > My list is over five thousand pages long. > > > > > > I think that once I get the other things listed that it won't be long > > > before I will be able to see the Absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > the absolute will never allow you to know all this things.... > > > > the whole list is shown daily....during deep sleep at night.... > > > > and, ....of course, to the united enlightented great non-dualists, > > constantly.....lol > > > > Marc > > > > I dont think that consciousness must be seen sequentially, but spread out > > flat as a whole instead. Not flat at all of course, but this > > non-dimensional > > luminous conditioned manifestation in the infinite unlimited dark saloon. > > :>)) > > -geo- > > > > some take " the absolute " for " the consciousness " ..... > > how could the absolute have a moving and restless consciousness....?.... > > ridiculous > > Marc > > It was from nis. that I first read the possibility of the two situations. > First, I am all, I am consciousness. In this situation, indeed, consciusness > is all movement and I am it. I think the majority of the non-dualists belong > to this group. The second situation is the groking of the ground of being. > -geo- Geo - When you use the term " nondualists " this way, it just makes for further division. So, what use is " nonduality " ? It's bullshit. It just becomes a means to make further thought-based division. Groking the ground of being is also bullshit. Once you've named it, you have divided what is. Once you consider that there is a groking of it, there is a division into those who grok and those who don't grok. Or there may be different depths of grokking. Just further divisions. All thought-based nonsense. It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. Yes, one can still think even if one is not referencing thought to determine reality. But the thought is only for the moment it occurs. There isn't any sense that thought is accomplishing something, because there isn't anyone apart from the thought to benefit from it. There isn't anyone apart from the thought " ground of being " who is going to grok anything. The thought comes and goes. That's all. Just another thought coming and going. Nothing special about it, or any thought. A thought may be appropriate to the moment as it is. Or a thought may involve an intention to accomplish something for someone. But a thought like that is convoluted. It includes a sense of an agenda. It might be the agenda " I'm going to get rich, " or it might be the agenda " I'm going to be one of the grokkers of the ground of being. " That agenda has no way to be met. So the thought is in contradiction to itself. Clarity about this is the cessation of any sense of accomplishing something for a thinker through a process of thought. In the same way, there is no experiencer apart from the experience to get something out of it. So it makes no difference at all if there is an experience of " the ground of being " or the experience of stubbing one's toe on the base of a couch. It makes no difference if there is an experience of suffering or an experience of nirvana. No difference whatsoever. The experience arises and dissolves. No experiencer apart from it. The changingness of experience moves on. The unchangingness of nonexperience doesn't move. Moving without moving, one is still. One is not touched by thought. End of story. No divisions to deal with. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. 'It seems', eh? It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:53 AM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:01 PM > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put all the states and all the capitols on the list. > > > > > > > > I put all the countries and all the cities that I can remember. > > > > > > > > I include the rives and the oceans. > > > > > > > > I list all the animals that science has named. > > > > > > > > I try to remember everything that I learned in school and everything > > > > that > > > > my teachers and parents told me. > > > > > > > > My list is over five thousand pages long. > > > > > > > > I think that once I get the other things listed that it won't be long > > > > before I will be able to see the Absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > the absolute will never allow you to know all this things.... > > > > > > the whole list is shown daily....during deep sleep at night.... > > > > > > and, ....of course, to the united enlightented great non-dualists, > > > constantly.....lol > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > I dont think that consciousness must be seen sequentially, but spread out > > > flat as a whole instead. Not flat at all of course, but this > > > non-dimensional > > > luminous conditioned manifestation in the infinite unlimited dark saloon. > > > :>)) > > > -geo- > > > > > > > some take " the absolute " for " the consciousness " ..... > > > > how could the absolute have a moving and restless consciousness....?.... > > > > ridiculous > > > > Marc > > > > It was from nis. that I first read the possibility of the two situations. > > First, I am all, I am consciousness. In this situation, indeed, consciusness > > is all movement and I am it. I think the majority of the non-dualists belong > > to this group. The second situation is the groking of the ground of being. > > -geo- > > > > what is " groking of the ground of being " ?.... > > ... > > consciousness is related to whatever identity.....looking/being at whatever world..... > > everything/everybody is related and connected to each by such consciousness > > it's a very simple relation/conncetion...and explanation of Oneness.... > > ... > > indeed, for some non-dual freaks....that's It...already. > > ... > > they are simply running after their more or less deep intiution/inspirations they get ....as being a part of the whole.....acting/reacting.... " just like that " ....without any reasons etc....and, of course, without having any " ego " etc......bla bla bla > > .... > > easy...and indeed, a very simple way and path...in order to remain ignorant....for infinite times. > > ... > > > Marc Marc - There is no " they " who can remain ignorant. Nor will there ever be. There is only Marc's construction of " they. " For whatever purpose that serves for Marc. If Marc is not being constructed, " they " are not there. If Dan is not being constructed, there is no " they " for Dan. If Dan is constructed, there is automatically a " they " - because for Dan to be Dan, there is a relation to " they " who are not Dan, and a world that is not Dan. So, to construct Dan is for " them " to appear, and " the world " to appear, and " the experiences through which Dan is constructed " to appear. It's funny, because " Dan " is never really constructed. Dan is referenced as someone who was constructed, but Dan never actually is present. That is really funny - because I can't find Dan, his world, or his " they " anywhere. They are always in an imaginary " there, " and never " here. " You may call " here " the absolute. I know Nisargadatta did. But that is silly. Here has no name for itself, not even " here " let alone " absolute. " Here never constructed itself, and thus never had a " they " to talk to. So, another thing that's funny is conversing. We're having all these conversations back and forth, from me to you and you to me. But even though it's fun, it's not convincing me that there is any you or me. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > 'It seems', eh? > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > Every baby is born with a target on its back. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > toombaru Utter stuff and nonsense. The universe runs by itself, automatically, as it happens to. There's not a damn thing 'personal' about it. Not only does the baby lack a target, it lacks an audience altogether. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > :-0 > > > > toombaru No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:41 PM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:53 AM > Re: The Absolute > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:01 PM > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put all the states and all the capitols on the list. > > > > > > I put all the countries and all the cities that I can remember. > > > > > > I include the rives and the oceans. > > > > > > I list all the animals that science has named. > > > > > > I try to remember everything that I learned in school and everything > > > that > > > my teachers and parents told me. > > > > > > My list is over five thousand pages long. > > > > > > I think that once I get the other things listed that it won't be long > > > before I will be able to see the Absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > the absolute will never allow you to know all this things.... > > > > the whole list is shown daily....during deep sleep at night.... > > > > and, ....of course, to the united enlightented great non-dualists, > > constantly.....lol > > > > Marc > > > > I dont think that consciousness must be seen sequentially, but spread > > out > > flat as a whole instead. Not flat at all of course, but this > > non-dimensional > > luminous conditioned manifestation in the infinite unlimited dark > > saloon. > > :>)) > > -geo- > > > > some take " the absolute " for " the consciousness " ..... > > how could the absolute have a moving and restless consciousness....?.... > > ridiculous > > Marc > > It was from nis. that I first read the possibility of the two situations. > First, I am all, I am consciousness. In this situation, indeed, > consciusness > is all movement and I am it. I think the majority of the non-dualists > belong > to this group. The second situation is the groking of the ground of being. > -geo- Geo - When you use the term " nondualists " this way, it just makes for further division. So, what use is " nonduality " ? It's bullshit. -d- Yes...that is the kind of non-dualistic I had in mind. -geo- It just becomes a means to make further thought-based division. Groking the ground of being is also bullshit. Once you've named it, you have divided what is. Once you consider that there is a groking of it, there is a division into those who grok and those who don't grok. Or there may be different depths of grokking. Just further divisions. All thought-based nonsense. It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. Yes, one can still think even if one is not referencing thought to determine reality. But the thought is only for the moment it occurs. There isn't any sense that thought is accomplishing something, because there isn't anyone apart from the thought to benefit from it. There isn't anyone apart from the thought " ground of being " who is going to grok anything. The thought comes and goes. That's all. Just another thought coming and going. Nothing special about it, or any thought. A thought may be appropriate to the moment as it is. Or a thought may involve an intention to accomplish something for someone. But a thought like that is convoluted. It includes a sense of an agenda. It might be the agenda " I'm going to get rich, " or it might be the agenda " I'm going to be one of the grokkers of the ground of being. " That agenda has no way to be met. So the thought is in contradiction to itself. Clarity about this is the cessation of any sense of accomplishing something for a thinker through a process of thought. In the same way, there is no experiencer apart from the experience to get something out of it. So it makes no difference at all if there is an experience of " the ground of being " or the experience of stubbing one's toe on the base of a couch. It makes no difference if there is an experience of suffering or an experience of nirvana. No difference whatsoever. The experience arises and dissolves. No experiencer apart from it. The changingness of experience moves on. The unchangingness of nonexperience doesn't move. Moving without moving, one is still. One is not touched by thought. End of story. No divisions to deal with. - Dan - I have said nothing else...with less words. End of story. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > toombaru > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > > > > > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? > > > > > toombaru This is boring, Toom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > > > > > > > > > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > This is boring, Toom. And if ya just sit there & ask questions like a robot, forget the cup of coffee, too ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > 'It seems', eh? > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). Yes, it can be had for nothing, just everything you thought you are and have to deal with. And it's conveniently located in the pit of your own stomach. Wow, that's pretty hard to get away from. Yet, one can spend countless lifetimes contending with countless relationships and worlds, attempting. And, in the end, all of those lifetimes of evasion and addiction are just so much dust blown in the wind. Which raises the question: in the absence of any attempt, without making any self inside or any other outside, what kind of experience manifests, what world is this? And the answer: it utterly doesn't matter in any way whatsoever. -- Dan -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Which raises the question: > > in the absence of any attempt, without making any self inside or any > other outside, what kind of experience manifests, what world is this? > > > And the answer: > > it utterly doesn't matter in any way whatsoever. > > > -- Dan -- I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > > > > > > > > > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > This is boring, Toom. > That's just because it doesn't fit in with your world view and it confuses and frightens you. That's alright. Open up. Take your medicine. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > This is boring, Toom. > > And if ya just sit there & ask questions like a robot, forget the cup of coffee, too ;-). > :-( toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that unless there is a deep crisis in one's sense of being > and being aware, that thought-based referencing won't cease. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'It seems', eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not only the end of 'oneself', but of others, and the world, too (as projected mentally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too much to give up. And ya get nothing whatsoever in return. Hey, great deal! They should put it on sale at Target! ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every baby is born with a target on its back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that this doesn't fit in with your acquired preconceptions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying it's utter stuff and nonsense. > > > > > > > > You're the one who suggested it doesn't fit in with my acquired preconceptions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do your acquired preconceptions tell you that there is a me out here suggesting that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > This is boring, Toom. > > > > > That's just because it doesn't fit in with your world view and it confuses and frightens you. > > That's alright. > > Open up. > > Take your medicine. > > toombaru What ever happened to " one can't do this for someone else " ... Are you suggesting I shouldn't listen to Nisargadatta, but it's very important that I listen to Michael? ROTFL ;-). Projection queen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
