Ego, realization, conceptual and nonconceptual

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds "

<skywords@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " no freedom, hence, compassion. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > There is no need for anything... but compassion arises,

anyway.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > One cannot but tend toward compassion toward another,

when that other is oneself.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, AND

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There are choices made

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Decisions change things

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The will has an effect

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > One can resist one's Self

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is the freedom to be utterly

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Demonic, destructive, idiotic, trivial

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Negative and UNFREE for it's own sake:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Merely to be free to be unfree

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > and (for me, this is the BEST NEWS)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > One CAN

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Consciously and deliberately decide to willfully:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Truly be blissfully happy, loving, compassionate

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Most Freely in the Now

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Most Gleefully in the Know

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > (without ANY prerequisites, processes, etc.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > the idea of " not this without that, not that without this, "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > is pure suffering, spiritually. Science is NOT exactly

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > poetry/spirit/feeling and poetry/spirit/feeling is NOT

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > exactly science. To equate the two realms is suffering.)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In " I AM That " Nisargadatta said, " I do not need to make an

effort; the deed follows the thought, without delay and friction. I have also

found that thoughts become self-fulfilling; things would fall into place

smoothly and rightly. The main change was in the mind; it became motionless and

silent, responding quickly, but not perpetuating the response. Spontaneity

became a way of life, the real became natural and the natural became real. And

above all, infinite affection, love, dark and quiet, radiating in all

directions, embracing all, making all interesting and beautiful, significant and

auspicious. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > BEAUTIFUL!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > smoooooooooooooooth eh pancho?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > just like you'd like it to be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's not.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's just words on a page like words in a bible.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > the believers in both kinds of nonsense..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > are believers because they just want to..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > or have to....... believe.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's the only way they can live with themselves..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and their hollow lives.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's an " excuse " little cisco.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It boils down to whether or not you trust the words of the guru -

the Self as manifested as Nisargadatta.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't get it, that you'd say that!

> > > > >

> > > > > Your quote is awesome but I was also assuming! that

> > > > >

> > > > > You yourself were having the same experience as Nis.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, " it all boils down " to my own personal experience:

> > > > >

> > > > > My trusting my own experience:

> > > > >

> > > > > I would never trust another's experience, ever..

> > > > >

> > > > > Until it was also, PRIMARILY, my own.

> > > > >

> > > > > Still, I think you're probably on the

> > > > >

> > > > > " Right track, "

> > > > >

> > > > > (whatever that means...hope I don't sound too presumptuous)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > My own experience would quite possibly never have happened had " i " not

trusted the words of the guru is the point.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That clears up my confusion: perfect!

> > >

> >

> > Have you ever had the experience but not your own words to relate it? That

is why I refer to the guru's words and not my own.

> >

>

> Yeah, totally, I'm with you.

>

> This is The Way

>

> This is The Tao,

>

> Right here, right now.

>

> We're in it.

>

> It also occurs to me,

>

> That it's a part (or a potentiality) of

>

> The Freedom:

>

> To " invent " the guru/parent/power/free figure,

>

> As the rep for The Highest Inner Self,

>

> So that we can " play " the disciple/child/powerless/unfree figure,

>

> And thus the SELF liberates/frees the self

>

> Through that " story/illusion/fantasy. "

>

> No problem.

>

> A Way,

>

> A Tao.

>

> I'm there, too.

>

Bhakti naturally becomes Gnani

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

<Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds "

<skywords@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds "

<skywords@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " no freedom, hence, compassion. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no need for anything... but compassion

arises, anyway.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > One cannot but tend toward compassion toward another,

when that other is oneself.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, AND

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > There are choices made

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Decisions change things

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The will has an effect

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > One can resist one's Self

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There is the freedom to be utterly

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Demonic, destructive, idiotic, trivial

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Negative and UNFREE for it's own sake:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Merely to be free to be unfree

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > and (for me, this is the BEST NEWS)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > One CAN

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Consciously and deliberately decide to willfully:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Truly be blissfully happy, loving, compassionate

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Most Freely in the Now

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Most Gleefully in the Know

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > (without ANY prerequisites, processes, etc.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the idea of " not this without that, not that without

this, "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > is pure suffering, spiritually. Science is NOT exactly

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > poetry/spirit/feeling and poetry/spirit/feeling is NOT

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > exactly science. To equate the two realms is suffering.)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In " I AM That " Nisargadatta said, " I do not need to make an

effort; the deed follows the thought, without delay and friction. I have also

found that thoughts become self-fulfilling; things would fall into place

smoothly and rightly. The main change was in the mind; it became motionless and

silent, responding quickly, but not perpetuating the response. Spontaneity

became a way of life, the real became natural and the natural became real. And

above all, infinite affection, love, dark and quiet, radiating in all

directions, embracing all, making all interesting and beautiful, significant and

auspicious. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > BEAUTIFUL!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > smoooooooooooooooth eh pancho?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > just like you'd like it to be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it's not.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it's just words on a page like words in a bible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the believers in both kinds of nonsense..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > are believers because they just want to..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > or have to....... believe.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it's the only way they can live with themselves..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and their hollow lives.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it's an " excuse " little cisco.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It boils down to whether or not you trust the words of the guru -

the Self as manifested as Nisargadatta.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't get it, that you'd say that!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your quote is awesome but I was also assuming! that

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You yourself were having the same experience as Nis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For me, " it all boils down " to my own personal experience:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My trusting my own experience:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would never trust another's experience, ever..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Until it was also, PRIMARILY, my own.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Still, I think you're probably on the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Right track, "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (whatever that means...hope I don't sound too presumptuous)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My own experience would quite possibly never have happened had " i " not

trusted the words of the guru is the point.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That clears up my confusion: perfect!

> > >

> > > and my experience..

> > >

> > > despite the words of any or all gurus..

> > >

> > > sutras..haiku..bibles..saints...mystics..

> > >

> > > and any and all other bullshit..

> > >

> > > has proven beautifully to me..

> > >

> > > in perfect fashion and form..

> > >

> > > that there are smarmy..unrepentant..nonreciprocating..ignorant

> > >

> > > cheap assholes in the world.

> > >

> > > and that they would have you believe that they believe..

> > >

> > > their own crap and excuses.

> > >

> > > not to mention names but to mention one name anyway:

> > >

> > > robert amory..aka ~sky..aka mstrdmmlbrn.

> > >

> > > love and kisses pancho.

> > >

> > > LOL!

> > >

> > > .b b.b.

> > >

> >

> > Do you " believe " your own crap and excuses?

>

> We all have the freedom to senescence.

>

> To our second childhood.

>

> And, in that retrogression,

>

> To replay all those tapes of the all those children

>

> Who once bedeviled us with their monkey shines.

>

> But this time, to become, truly, unruly, become

>

> Those children, and thus reek vengeance on all and sundry:

>

> On them, on ourselves, on the world,

>

> On all adults and all children and parents

>

> Everywhere, for all time.

>

> That last final dying Hurr-ah to

>

> " Go not gently into that dark dark night "

>

> Or do..

>

Although I would no longer say

Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night

Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

-- Dylan Thomas

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>