Ego, realization, conceptual and nonconceptual

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Although I want to express this in words, it never comes out right

> > > > > (just like that guy Amit who wanted to write a Sanskrit dictionary).

> > > >

> > > > It really isn't expressible. As you've noted, one must divest

investment in the self-image, nonvolitionally. Any volitional attempt to divest

investment is to maintain the self-image.

> > > >

> > > > Speaking for myself, I feel that 'seeds can be planted' with words.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, they have to land on fertile ground.

> > >

> > > Yeah, we can't shut up about what we can't say.

> >

> > LOL :-).

> >

> > Hey, all in good fun.

> >

> > Some folks like talking about stamp collecting, or high-end headphones, or

whatever.

> >

> > > And if the ground is fertile, what will not be speaking the truth

> > > directly to it?

> >

> > Very true. At minimum, though, honest/direct words don't hurt any.

>

> Agreed.

>

> And as Skye suggested, self-deception is as real as you are able to make it,

while it seems real to you.

>

> So, untruth comes in when self-deceptive communicating is maintained as

reality, and truth is treated as unreal.

>

> And this has reality to the extent of the ability to believe in it,

internalize it, employ ignore-ance, and maintain it as if truth.

>

> And direct, honest words, as you say, certainly can't hurt in that situation.

>

> -- Dan

>

Agreed.

However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

Believes MOST heartily in:

Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

A departure from " honest, direct " might be

Precisely what the sufferer needs emancipation from...

Give or take, playfully, depending...

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > To see clearly is to keep one's focus focused.

> > >

> > > Unclear is out of focus on past as primary

> > >

> > > In focus is to focus on present as primary

> >

> > If one loses interest in the past,

> >

> > There's no need to 'focus' on the present.

> >

> > Focus is necessary when one is 'trying' to 'be here now'.

> >

> > Which is impossible, as the trying is itself 'the past' asserting. One has

to continually remember to 'be here now', and so one ends up not being here now,

but only remembering that one was going to do so.

> >

> > So, losing interest is really the only option. The past as a focus of

interest, dissolves. And then, only the present is.

> >

>

> My experience is that I

>

> Do have a choice, the freedom

>

> To live the Now fully,

>

> Or to obsess on the past, in unfreedom

>

> I do find that what I

>

> Tell myself, my Self

>

> WAY MATTERS.

>

> This idea of dissolving

>

> Beyond beyond,

>

> I find to be just a

>

> Romantic Notion

>

> (Albeit a practicable one!

>

> Hence, yes, livable:

>

> Still, it IS STILL

>

> Something I/you tell oneself...

>

> Although I see the paradox

>

> And I'm sure it can best be understood

>

> As a process.

ROFLMAO!

process that pancho.

..b b.b.

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Agreed.

>

> However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

>

> Believes MOST heartily in:

>

> Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

" Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more dramatic

forms of verbal untruth.

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > To see clearly is to keep one's focus focused.

> > > > >

> > > > > Unclear is out of focus on past as primary

> > > > >

> > > > > In focus is to focus on present as primary

> > > >

> > > > If one loses interest in the past,

> > > >

> > > > There's no need to 'focus' on the present.

> > > >

> > > > Focus is necessary when one is 'trying' to 'be here now'.

> > > >

> > > > Which is impossible, as the trying is itself 'the past' asserting. One

has to continually remember to 'be here now', and so one ends up not being here

now, but only remembering that one was going to do so.

> > > >

> > > > So, losing interest is really the only option. The past as a focus of

interest, dissolves. And then, only the present is.

> > > >

> > >

> > > My experience is that I

> > >

> > > Do have a choice, the freedom

> > >

> > > To live the Now fully,

> > >

> > > Or to obsess on the past, in unfreedom

> >

> > I am not here, to have a choice.

> >

> > I, myself, am a thought, arising now.

> >

> > All arises now, choicelessly.

> >

> > Nobody is running the show.

> >

>

> That's beautiful, too.

>

> Seriously.

>

> But I call that " freedom "

>

> Precisely, exactly what you just said, above:

>

> I call THAT " FREEDOM "

It's not a semantic issue, question.

>

> It's a complex personal/poetic/philosophical/spiritual issue.

you wouldn't know personal/poetic/philosophical/spiritual issues..

if they put change in your bowl..

or sent you free CDs..

or told you to get lost like charlie.

Exactly.

Precisely.

Funny as all get out.

..b b.b.

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Agreed.

> >

> > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> >

> > Believes MOST heartily in:

> >

> > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

>

> " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

>

> Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more dramatic

forms of verbal untruth.

>

For me, " the feeling gets the blessing "

Words have great power,

But the feeling that propels them

There's the " truth " behind the " truth "

(Assuming the existence of any " truth, " of course)

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Agreed.

> > >

> > > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> > >

> > > Believes MOST heartily in:

> > >

> > > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

> >

> > " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

> >

> > Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

> >

>

> For me, " the feeling gets the blessing "

>

> Words have great power,

>

> But the feeling that propels them

>

> There's the " truth " behind the " truth "

The truth " behind the words " , eh?

What's sitting behind these words right now, with the words directly in front of

them?

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Agreed.

> > > >

> > > > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> > > >

> > > > Believes MOST heartily in:

> > > >

> > > > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

> > >

> > > " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

> > >

> > > Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

> > >

> >

> > For me, " the feeling gets the blessing "

> >

> > Words have great power,

> >

> > But the feeling that propels them

> >

> > There's the " truth " behind the " truth "

>

> The truth " behind the words " , eh?

>

> What's sitting behind these words right now, with the words directly in front

of them?

>

The Whole Universe

Both Before & Behind

Above and Below

And that same reed

Vibrating those words

The feeling is the song

Permeating the whole communication:

The song sung thus

Now

Still echoing

July 24, 2009

Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> you wouldn't know personal/poetic/philosophical/spiritual issues..

>

> if they put change in your bowl..

>

> or sent you free CDs..

>

> or told you to get lost like charlie.

Sure ya would, Bob. You talked about your grandkids and stuff... that was cool.

Why not a bit more of that positive talk, instead of being down on Bob so much?

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > timmy buys E. Tolle's bullshit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I've never read a single word of Eckhart Tolle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > the power of now is powerless here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Too bad.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > When we see all

> > > > >

> > > > > As All One:

> > > > >

> > > > > There is NEVER

> > > > >

> > > > > Any disagreement,

> > > > >

> > > > > Anywhere.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is only ...

> > > > >

> > > > > It's just a question

> > > > >

> > > > > Of When does One

> > > > >

> > > > > Allow One's Self

> > > > >

> > > > > That Oneness

> > > > >

> > > > > (I know you know)

> > > >

> > > > And is one clear that it is not even in one's power to disallow?

> > > >

> > > > There is no negation.

> > > >

> > > > There is no other option.

> > > >

> > > > -- Dan

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes, on the deepest level:

> > >

> > > Absolutely.

> > >

> > > But, a measure of that very freedom

> > >

> > > IS that one CAN convince oneself of

> > >

> > > Experience (almost) completely

> > >

> > > Unfreedom, enslavement, bondage:

> > >

> > > Suffering.

> > >

> > > Suffering proves that we are free

> > >

> > > To convince ourselves that we are not free.

> >

> > True.

> >

> > As long as it lasts.

> >

> > And how long is it lasting?

> >

> > - Dan

> >

>

> Check out the candidates.

>

> Suicides would say, " forever "

>

> But I agree, it may have a short self life for some

>

> But others, suffering lasts " thousands of reincarnations "

How long is a minute of life?

How long is a year?

How long is duration?

What do you have to compare the present experience with, to see how long it

lasts? Or even what and if it is?

- Dan -

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Although I want to express this in words, it never comes out right

> > > > > > (just like that guy Amit who wanted to write a Sanskrit dictionary).

> > > > >

> > > > > It really isn't expressible. As you've noted, one must divest

investment in the self-image, nonvolitionally. Any volitional attempt to divest

investment is to maintain the self-image.

> > > > >

> > > > > Speaking for myself, I feel that 'seeds can be planted' with words.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course, they have to land on fertile ground.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, we can't shut up about what we can't say.

> > >

> > > LOL :-).

> > >

> > > Hey, all in good fun.

> > >

> > > Some folks like talking about stamp collecting, or high-end headphones, or

whatever.

> > >

> > > > And if the ground is fertile, what will not be speaking the truth

> > > > directly to it?

> > >

> > > Very true. At minimum, though, honest/direct words don't hurt any.

> >

> > Agreed.

> >

> > And as Skye suggested, self-deception is as real as you are able to make it,

while it seems real to you.

> >

> > So, untruth comes in when self-deceptive communicating is maintained as

reality, and truth is treated as unreal.

> >

> > And this has reality to the extent of the ability to believe in it,

internalize it, employ ignore-ance, and maintain it as if truth.

> >

> > And direct, honest words, as you say, certainly can't hurt in that

situation.

> >

> > -- Dan

> >

>

> Agreed.

>

> However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

>

> Believes MOST heartily in:

>

> Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

>

> A departure from " honest, direct " might be

>

> Precisely what the sufferer needs emancipation from...

>

> Give or take, playfully, depending...

It's a good point.

" Something to believe in " not being available here, regardless.

- D -

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Agreed.

> >

> > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> >

> > Believes MOST heartily in:

> >

> > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

>

> " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

>

> Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more dramatic

forms of verbal untruth.

I find that dishonest communication subtly or overtly encourages belief,

generally in something that is supposed to benefit the " me. "

Honest communication doesn't involve a motive to distort or split, it's not

" duplicitous " (double), but sincere, single-purposed.

- D-

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Agreed.

> > >

> > > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> > >

> > > Believes MOST heartily in:

> > >

> > > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

> >

> > " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

> >

> > Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

>

> I find that dishonest communication subtly or overtly encourages belief,

generally in something that is supposed to benefit the " me. "

>

> Honest communication doesn't involve a motive to distort or split, it's not

" duplicitous " (double), but sincere, single-purposed.

>

> - D-

>

Communication is the fine art of communing... in the act of communion....the

body of soul and the blood of spirit.

From I to Thou.

~A

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote:

>

> Communication is the fine art of communing... in the act of

> communion....the body of soul and the blood of spirit.

>

> From I to Thou.

>

> ~A

When " Thou " hears only its own " I " , what's one to do?

" What are words for... when no one listens anymore... when no one listens,

there's no use talking at all " -- Missing Persons ;-).

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

<Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > timmy buys E. Tolle's bullshit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I've never read a single word of Eckhart Tolle.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the power of now is powerless here.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Too bad.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When we see all

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As All One:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is NEVER

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any disagreement,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anywhere.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is only ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's just a question

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of When does One

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Allow One's Self

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That Oneness

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (I know you know)

> > > > >

> > > > > And is one clear that it is not even in one's power to disallow?

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no negation.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no other option.

> > > > >

> > > > > -- Dan

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, on the deepest level:

> > > >

> > > > Absolutely.

> > > >

> > > > But, a measure of that very freedom

> > > >

> > > > IS that one CAN convince oneself of

> > > >

> > > > Experience (almost) completely

> > > >

> > > > Unfreedom, enslavement, bondage:

> > > >

> > > > Suffering.

> > > >

> > > > Suffering proves that we are free

> > > >

> > > > To convince ourselves that we are not free.

> > >

> > > True.

> > >

> > > As long as it lasts.

> > >

> > > And how long is it lasting?

> > >

> > > - Dan

> > >

> >

> > Check out the candidates.

> >

> > Suicides would say, " forever "

> >

> > But I agree, it may have a short self life for some

> >

> > But others, suffering lasts " thousands of reincarnations "

>

> How long is a minute of life?

>

> How long is a year?

>

> How long is duration?

>

> What do you have to compare the present experience with, to see how long it

lasts? Or even what and if it is?

>

> - Dan -

>

Actually, on the one hand I totally agree:

How to compare eternities?!

Yet, on the other hand,

Some things get smaller relative to the whole:

Psychologist say that a child's day is longer

Than an adult's, because there are fewer days,

Trees, in that forest.

As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

Possibilities, the experience of choice.

I can go either way.

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

>

> Possibilities, the experience of choice.

>

> I can go either way.

Can I choose what choice I make?

Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

July 25, 2009

-

Tim G.

Nisargadatta

Friday, July 24, 2009 5:34 PM

Re: Ego, realization, conceptual and nonconceptual

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Agreed.

>

> However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

>

> Believes MOST heartily in:

>

> Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

" Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

-tim-

Ah..no. More dramatic and less dramatic..then more truer then that other,

then less truer. No.

-geo-

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July 25, 2009

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Friday, July 24, 2009 8:03 PM

Re: Ego, realization, conceptual and nonconceptual

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Agreed.

> >

> > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> >

> > Believes MOST heartily in:

> >

> > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

>

> " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

>

> Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

> dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

I find that dishonest communication subtly or overtly encourages belief,

generally in something that is supposed to benefit the " me. "

Honest communication doesn't involve a motive to distort or split, it's not

" duplicitous " (double), but sincere, single-purposed.

- D-

Yes but, two atorneys talking about their common client also feel they are

communicating in a very positive way - single purposed.

-geo-

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July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

> >

> > Possibilities, the experience of choice.

> >

> > I can go either way.

>

> Can I choose what choice I make?

>

> Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

>

> Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

" no freedom, hence, compassion. "

To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

(that instability my seem to put my truth

in question, I admit.)

But I don't see it as an either/or, any more.

Rather, I see freedom less as a fact

More as an experience:

The top floor, highest point, of my promentory.

The Self in self-unrestricted relationship to Self

As Freedom.

Wholeness

Nonduality

Oneness

Godhead

Also, freedom as freedom from oppression:

Resentment, aggression, negativity, struggle, ill will..

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

> > >

> > > Possibilities, the experience of choice.

> > >

> > > I can go either way.

> >

> > Can I choose what choice I make?

> >

> > Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

> >

> > Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

>

> Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

>

> And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

>

> " no freedom, hence, compassion. "

>

> To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

>

> (that instability my seem to put my truth

>

> in question, I admit.)

>

> But I don't see it as an either/or, any more.

>

> Rather, I see freedom less as a fact

>

> More as an experience:

>

> The top floor, highest point, of my promentory.

>

> The Self in self-unrestricted relationship to Self

>

> As Freedom.

>

> Wholeness

>

> Nonduality

>

> Oneness

>

> Godhead

>

> Also, freedom as freedom from oppression:

>

> Resentment, aggression, negativity, struggle, ill will..

>

G... those are such nice words... nice illusions.

~A

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

> > >

> > > Possibilities, the experience of choice.

> > >

> > > I can go either way.

> >

> > Can I choose what choice I make?

> >

> > Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

> >

> > Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

>

> Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

>

> And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

>

> " no freedom, hence, compassion. "

>

> To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

>

> (that instability my seem to put my truth

>

> in question, I admit.)

>

> But I don't see it as an either/or, any more.

>

> Rather, I see freedom less as a fact

>

> More as an experience:

>

> The top floor, highest point, of my promentory.

>

> The Self in self-unrestricted relationship to Self

>

> As Freedom.

>

> Wholeness

>

> Nonduality

>

> Oneness

>

> Godhead

>

> Also, freedom as freedom from oppression:

>

> Resentment, aggression, negativity, struggle, ill will..

Also:

The NOW as FREEDOM:

The experience of infinite possibilities,

Unfolding..

That burgeoning fullness,

Assurance of ongoing serenity,

In perfect balance with comfortable excitement.

That certainty in uncertainty

In graceful friendship

That sense of co-creative harmony

With Universe..

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > you wouldn't know personal/poetic/philosophical/spiritual issues..

> >

> > if they put change in your bowl..

> >

> > or sent you free CDs..

> >

> > or told you to get lost like charlie.

>

> Sure ya would, Bob. You talked about your grandkids and stuff... that was

cool. Why not a bit more of that positive talk, instead of being down on Bob so

much?

i'm too modest.

i'm not ~skyzie nor you.

there is no difference between positive /negative/neutral.

you try and create a distinction for form sake.

fuck form.

..b b.b.

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

> I can go either way.

that's not surprising.

but you should keep that filthy stuff to yourself.

nobody's interested.

LOL!

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

> > >

> > > Possibilities, the experience of choice.

> > >

> > > I can go either way.

> >

> > Can I choose what choice I make?

> >

> > Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

> >

> > Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

>

> Yes, I've asked myself precisely those questions.

>

> And I've COMPLETELY changed from believing in

>

> " no freedom, hence, compassion. "

>

> To " absolute freedom, hence no need for compassion "

>

> (that instability my seem to put my truth

>

> in question, I admit.)

>

> But I don't see it as an either/or, any more.

>

> Rather, I see freedom less as a fact

>

> More as an experience:

>

> The top floor, highest point, of my promentory.

>

> The Self in self-unrestricted relationship to Self

>

> As Freedom.

>

> Wholeness

>

> Nonduality

>

> Oneness

>

> Godhead

>

> Also, freedom as freedom from oppression:

>

> Resentment, aggression, negativity, struggle, ill will..

....from reciprocating in the giving of gifts too huh?

that's your style of freedom el cheapo.

..b b.b.

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Agreed.

> > > >

> > > > However, " honest, direct words " are what the sufferer

> > > >

> > > > Believes MOST heartily in:

> > > >

> > > > Absolutely, from the sufferer's point of view.

> > >

> > > " Untruth " is very deceptive. There's nothing honest or direct about it.

> > >

> > > Honest, direct words are still untruth, but point away from the more

dramatic forms of verbal untruth.

> >

> > I find that dishonest communication subtly or overtly encourages belief,

generally in something that is supposed to benefit the " me. "

> >

> > Honest communication doesn't involve a motive to distort or split, it's not

" duplicitous " (double), but sincere, single-purposed.

> >

> > - D-

> >

>

> Communication is the fine art of communing... in the act of communion....the

body of soul and the blood of spirit.

>

> From I to Thou.

>

> ~A

I to I.

The " to " imagined.

- D -

July 25, 2009

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > As with trees, so with ideas, feelings

> >

> > Possibilities, the experience of choice.

> >

> > I can go either way.

>

> Can I choose what choice I make?

>

> Doesn't a 'choice' just arise, like any other thought,

>

> Based on one's particular circumstances, what's happening at the moment the

" choice " is made?

Yes, exactly.

It's the moment of comprehension that the moment is what is comprehended.

Hence, there is no " moment. "

And it is never not so.

The imaginings of going back and forth are intriguing, in that they are nothing

the entire time - time being utterly and only conceptual.

- D -

Sign In

Ego, realization, conceptual and nonconceptual

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