Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > There occurs.....or not....a breakdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ground has been planted.......the seed are alive....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...the farmer waits for rain........ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > don't attach to a dream, and it is of no concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > the only breakdown is of the attaching attempt. > > > > > > > > > > > > don't attach and you don't need to wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh......if were only that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > You are not telling the truth. > > > > > > > > You *want* it all to be complicated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan offers the bromide: " Do not attach " . > > > > > > Do you think that the self can extricate itself from its conundrum so easily? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > So, now you're concerned about extricating a self that doesn't exist? > > > > And you think bromides are being offered to it? > > > > Sheesh, and double sheesh. > > > > Nyah, nyah, nyah, ad infinitum. > > > > > > -- D. > > > > > And yet you advise not to attach? > > > > > toombaru Attachment does not require a self to attach. Attachment *is* the self. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There occurs.....or not....a breakdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ground has been planted.......the seed are alive....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...the farmer waits for rain........ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't attach to a dream, and it is of no concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the only breakdown is of the attaching attempt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't attach and you don't need to wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh......if were only that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > You are not telling the truth. > > > > > > > > > > You *want* it all to be complicated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan offers the bromide: " Do not attach " . > > > > > > > > Do you think that the self can extricate itself from its conundrum so easily? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > So, now you're concerned about extricating a self that doesn't exist? > > > > > > And you think bromides are being offered to it? > > > > > > Sheesh, and double sheesh. > > > > > > Nyah, nyah, nyah, ad infinitum. > > > > > > > > > -- D. > > > > > > > > > And yet you advise not to attach? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Attachment does not require a self to attach. Attachment *is* the self. > So he's advising attachment not to attach? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > So he's advising attachment not to attach? > > > > > toombaru Heheh... I dunno... don't remember what he said. Did it appear to you to be advice? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:48:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) --> > Nisargadatta , "Phil" <souldreamone@> wrote:> >> > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > be a totally insane thing to do.> > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding.> > I'm aware of that.> > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, "someone else" > experiencing and responding.> > All advice offered is to myself ;-).> > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > come to me. Hehe.> > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > listening.From here, ego is the belief in ego... like the the annoying Toombaru case :-/. ****Right, and beyond a belief it has no reality. To me, Toom is annoying because he is obtuse, possibly purposely so. The point is consistently missed and a 90 deg turn is taken, which serves the purpose of avoiding the issue and also making the other wrong. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:50:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: Your Big Self is listening?Does it have Big Ears?:-0toombaru ***It's not a Self that belongs to me, it's me. (It's also you) We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > So he's advising attachment not to attach? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Heheh... I dunno... don't remember what he said. Did it appear to you to be advice? > Dan: " don't attach to a dream, and it is of no concern. the only breakdown is of the attaching attempt. don't attach and you don't need to wait. now. " toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:56:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: Phil......It's time to give up all that crap about little self-Big Self.That old idea that we aren't really a bunch of little selves but our ultimate reality is actually one great Big Self......is just an infantile elaboration of the same old religiosity that has surfaced since the mind of man first imagined that it was separated from its source.Everything they told you is wrong.You have to start thinking through this stuff without referring to those old maps.toombaru ***You don't even know what I mean by Self. You heard it once, forgot the rest of the sentence and started salivating like Pavlov's doggie. Now you've written a story around what you think I mean and how i became so seriously deluded, and have concluded that everything I was told about it is wrong. Can you also go back to some past lives and tell me what I did wrong that led to such a predicament? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > So he's advising attachment not to attach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Heheh... I dunno... don't remember what he said. Did it appear to you to be advice? > > > > > Dan: > > > " don't attach to a dream, and it is of no concern. > > the only breakdown is of the attaching attempt. > > don't attach and you don't need to wait. > > now. " > > > > > toombaru ****Hard to know who/what Dan thought he was talking to but what's important is what is hearing. Is an imaginary self or attachment hearing anything? Seems purdy durn unlikely that thoughts can hear stuff, so what's listening; what's aware off those thoughts? Just to be clear, imaginary people don't think, don't type, don't do anything. Ego's also don't do anything like get all egoic. People, ego, self are no more than thoughts. The question is, who's thoughts? Once that's seriously overconceptualized too, you might settle on something like Awareness or Consciousness or Self or some such, but whatever it is seems to be intelligent enough to respond, like what's happening here on the forum. Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to be a totally insane thing to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > be a totally insane thing to do. I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. I'm aware of that. What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " experiencing and responding. All advice offered is to myself ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So he's advising attachment not to attach? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Heheh... I dunno... don't remember what he said. Did it appear to you to be advice? > > > > > > > > > Dan: > > > > > > " don't attach to a dream, and it is of no concern. > > > > the only breakdown is of the attaching attempt. > > > > don't attach and you don't need to wait. > > > > now. " > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > ****Hard to know who/what Dan thought he was talking to but what's important is what is hearing. Is an imaginary self or attachment hearing anything? Seems purdy durn unlikely that thoughts can hear stuff, so what's listening; what's aware off those thoughts? > > > Just to be clear, imaginary people don't think, don't type, don't do anything. Ego's also don't do anything like get all egoic. People, ego, self are no more than thoughts. The question is, who's thoughts? > > Once that's seriously overconceptualized too, you might settle on something like Awareness or Consciousness or Self or some such, but whatever it is seems to be intelligent enough to respond, like what's happening here on the forum. > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to be a totally insane thing to do. > Advise presupposes volition. Advise to other egos concerning ways to fix their consition and is about as close to insane as it gets. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Advise presupposes volition. Only if it were volitionally offered, which it isn't ;-). > Advise to other egos concerning ways to fix their consition and is > about as close to insane as it gets. Funny... I thought advice given to military recruits to kill folks was a bit closer to insane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Advise presupposes volition. Only if it were volitionally offered, which it isn't ;-). > Advise to other egos concerning ways to fix their consition and is > about as close to insane as it gets. Funny... I thought advice given to military recruits to kill folks was a bit closer to insane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Advise presupposes volition. > > Only if it were volitionally offered, which it isn't ;-). > > > Advise to other egos concerning ways to fix their condition is > > about as close to insane as it gets. > > Funny... I thought advice given to military recruits to kill folks was a bit closer to insane. > That's just the gene's desire to survive. Nothing insane about that. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:18:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > I'm aware of that. > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > experiencing and responding. > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > come to me. Hehe. > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > listening. From here, ego is the belief in ego... like the the annoying Toombaru case :-/. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:18:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > I'm aware of that. > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > experiencing and responding. > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > come to me. Hehe. > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > listening. > > > > \ Your Big Self is listening? Does it have Big Ears? :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:18:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > fewtch@ writes: > > > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > > > Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > > > I'm aware of that. > > > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > > experiencing and responding. > > > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > > come to me. Hehe. > > > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > > listening. > > > > > > > > \ > > > > > > Your Big Self is listening? > > Does it have Big Ears? > > :-0 > > > > toombaru Some people post on mailing lists for only one reason. Conflict. It's immediately identifiable by how often the word " you " is used. Such folks are ignored by the wise. timbaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:18:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > > fewtch@ writes: > > > > > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > > > > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > > > > > I'm aware of that. > > > > > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > > > experiencing and responding. > > > > > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > > > come to me. Hehe. > > > > > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > > > listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > \ > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Big Self is listening? > > > > Does it have Big Ears? > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Some people post on mailing lists for only one reason. > > Conflict. > > It's immediately identifiable by how often the word " you " is used. > > Such folks are ignored by the wise. > > timbaru > Do you believe that you will ever get a glimpse of what's happening without conflict? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Do you believe that you will ever get a glimpse of what's happening > without conflict? You mean you haven't even glimpsed the reality? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Do you believe that you will ever get a glimpse of what's happening > > without conflict? > > You mean you haven't even glimpsed the reality? > It's hard to glimpse an idea. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:48:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > > > I'm aware of that. > > > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > > experiencing and responding. > > > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > > come to me. Hehe. > > > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > > listening. > > From here, ego is the belief in ego... like the the annoying Toombaru case > :-/. > > > > > ****Right, and beyond a belief it has no reality. To me, Toom is annoying > because he is obtuse, possibly purposely so. The point is consistently > missed and a 90 deg turn is taken, which serves the purpose of avoiding the > issue and also making the other wrong. That tends to happen when one has " other " in mind when posting... to try and show somebody something, teach somebody something, etc., often for purposes of glorifying one's sense of self. From here, the only 'value' in talking about this stuff is in seeing if it applies to oneself. There is no such thing as instructing others )through one's superiority). Advaita is a self-navigated course, or not at all, and the best teachers consistently point out the need to turn to one's own resources, turn the student to themselves. The unwise, egoic teachers want to create dependency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:50:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > Your Big Self is listening? > > Does it have Big Ears? > > :-0 > > > > toombaru > > > > ***It's not a Self that belongs to me, it's me. (It's also you) > > > Phil......It's time to give up all that crap about little self-Big Self. That old idea that we aren't really a bunch of little selves but our ultimate reality is actually one great Big Self......is just an infantile elaboration of the same old religiosity that has surfaced since the mind of man first imagined that it was separated from its source. Everything they told you is wrong. You have to start thinking through this stuff without referring to those old maps. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:48:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > fewtch@ writes: > > > > > Hi Phil (welcome back to the list, BTW) -- > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Something is experiencing and responding, and as such, offering > > > > advice to the thing experiencing and responding doesn't seem to me to > > > > > > be a totally insane thing to do. > > > > > > I'm experiencing your experiencing, and responding to your responding. > > > > > > I'm aware of that. > > > > > > What I'm not aware of is anything apart -- like, " someone else " > > > experiencing and responding. > > > > > > All advice offered is to myself ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > ***Hi Tim. Yeah, i'm back to remind myself why I left. I'm sure it will > > > come to me. Hehe. > > > > > > Yes, advice offered to mySelf, but not to the ego self. No ego is > > > listening. > > > > From here, ego is the belief in ego... like the the annoying Toombaru case > > :-/. > > > > > > > > > > ****Right, and beyond a belief it has no reality. To me, Toom is annoying > > because he is obtuse, possibly purposely so. The point is consistently > > missed and a 90 deg turn is taken, which serves the purpose of avoiding the > > issue and also making the other wrong. > > That tends to happen when one has " other " in mind when posting... to try and show somebody something, teach somebody something, etc., often for purposes of glorifying one's sense of self. From here, the only 'value' in talking about this stuff is in seeing if it applies to oneself. > > There is no such thing as instructing others )through one's superiority). Advaita is a self-navigated course, or not at all, and the best teachers consistently point out the need to turn to one's own resources, turn the student to themselves. The unwise, egoic teachers want to create dependency. > If you are happy........continue to think the way you always have. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > If you are happy........continue to think the way you always have. > > > > > toombaru Thanks for the permission (rolling eyes). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:56:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > Phil......It's time to give up all that crap about little self-Big Self. > > That old idea that we aren't really a bunch of little selves but our > ultimate reality is actually one great Big Self......is just an infantile > elaboration of the same old religiosity that has surfaced since the mind of man > first imagined that it was separated from its source. > > Everything they told you is wrong. > > You have to start thinking through this stuff without referring to those > old maps. > > > > toombaru > > > > ***You don't even know what I mean by Self. You heard it once, forgot the > rest of the sentence and started salivating like Pavlov's doggie. Now > you've written a story around what you think I mean and how i became so > seriously deluded, and have concluded that everything I was told about it is wrong. > Can you also go back to some past lives and tell me what I did wrong that > led to such a predicament? Toom " speaks to himself " through others. Sound familiar? :-/. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 A: That tends to happen when one has " other " in mind when posting... to try and show somebody something, teach somebody something, etc., -tim- B:... and the best teachers consistently point out the need to turn to one's own resources, turn the student to themselves. -tim- C: So the best teachers do have things to tell to others? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
