Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > marktimmins60 wrote: > > > > it is all love don't you understand? peace is love war is love and > > sarcasm is love and I love using it when I hear nonsense. > > and yes even awakened egos are love. but that you think there is love > > and not love tells me that you are in the right universe, but the > > wrong forum > > and besides who made you the love judge anway? You must be very > > close to God. If however you want my respect, don't talk the > > walk,walk the walk. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > --- > > > > ** > > > > I > Don't I understand? How odd that you ought ask me that question. > > I was just recently making the point that unconditional love is the > source of all things, which would entail that all things are love. > > I'm sorry Mark, but you don't appear to making any sense as far as I can > tell. > > tyga > and let us leave it that way. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 > > >M: it is all love don't you understand? peace is love war is love and > sarcasm is love and I love using it when I hear nonsense. P: What you wrote above is pure nonsense. In what way war is love? Is blowing up babies, love? >M: and yes even awakened egos are love. P: You don't have any idea what an awakened ego means. M: but that you think there is love > and not love tells me that you are in the right universe, but the > wrong forum > and besides who made you the love judge anway? P: Who made you? M: however you want my respect, don't talk the > walk,walk the walk. P: Why would he like your respect? Are you someone important? > > Mark > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > M: Ever notice how people > > just can't tell the truth?? > > P: No, most people try to tell > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here because > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened state. Would > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta according to > > you. > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > those words were translated into English they > were perverted again. When someone reads them > they are perverted once again. When that reader > retells them perversion is added. So there > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. Yes, Pete, I see it just the same way ! Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely wag their tail Werner > > > >M: As a matter of fact I do read Nisargadatta daily. His eloquence > > keeps me vigilant from becoming an awakened ego. You might wanna > > give it a try. > > P: What are you now? A sleeping ego? What is an Awakened > ego? > > > M: I just thought I would give it the > > old college try, ya know? > > P: What was your major? > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: .... > >M: So sorry about this but I gotta go absolute on your ass here. > > P: Metaphorically speaking, I hope. ) Only if " absolute " is metaphorically real. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " <marktimmins60 wrote: .... > > P: Did you intend to kill the dialog? > > Answering with such rambling generalities > > leaves no room for reply. So good bey, till > > next time. > > > > > > > > speaking of generalities > lol,couldn't stand the heat heat huh? > go run into the corner with Anna. > Mark You guys are so Bad to each other, can't you feel the Love, the Harmony of Heaven, the tender Embrace of the One, and his hard dick in your ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > M: Ever notice how people > > > just can't tell the truth?? > > > > P: No, most people try to tell > > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here > because > > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened state. > Would > > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta according > to > > > you. > > > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > > those words were translated into English they > > were perverted again. When someone reads them > > they are perverted once again. When that reader > > retells them perversion is added. So there > > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. > > > Yes, Pete, > > I see it just the same way ! > > Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely wag > their tail > > Werner > > P: Hey, I rather hear old dogs, like you and Eric, barking than a parrot screeching unperverted teachings. Don't get me wrong, I think Nis' teachings are great. I read them several times, until they took root in my mind, which means they were perverted by my understanding, but in being perverted, they were changed to fit my life. Just like a suit to big, or small that you take to a tailor. Now, a parrot spouting unperverted words doesn't really understand the purpose of those words. You would not want a parrot for a driving instructor, even when the parrot has memorized the whole manual, it would say stop when you need to go, and vise versa. Driving is more than memorizing unperverted words, so is nonduality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " <ericparoissien wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > ... > > > > P: Did you intend to kill the dialog? > > > Answering with such rambling generalities > > > leaves no room for reply. So good bey, till > > > next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > speaking of generalities > > lol,couldn't stand the heat heat huh? > > go run into the corner with Anna. > > Mark > >E: You guys are so Bad to each other, can't you feel the Love, the > Harmony of Heaven, the tender Embrace of the One, and his hard dick in > your ... P: Ha, ha! Love at these lists is like watching a porn video by yourself. No matter how much love you feel, you can't make love to the screen. So, you either do a hand job, or eat ice cream, instead. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > M: Ever notice how people > > > > just can't tell the truth?? > > > > > > P: No, most people try to tell > > > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > > > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here > > because > > > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened state. > > Would > > > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta according > > to > > > > you. > > > > > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > > > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > > > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > > > those words were translated into English they > > > were perverted again. When someone reads them > > > they are perverted once again. When that reader > > > retells them perversion is added. So there > > > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. > > > > > > Yes, Pete, > > > > I see it just the same way ! > > > > Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely wag > > their tail > > > > Werner > > > > > P: Hey, I rather hear old dogs, > like you and Eric, barking than a > parrot screeching unperverted teachings. > > Don't get me wrong, I think Nis' teachings > are great. I read them several times, until > they took root in my mind, which means they > were perverted by my understanding, but in > being perverted, they were changed to fit > my life. Just like a suit to big, or small > that you take to a tailor. > > Now, a parrot spouting unperverted words > doesn't really understand the purpose of > those words. You would not want a parrot > for a driving instructor, even when the > parrot has memorized the whole manual, it > would say stop when you need to go, and > vise versa. Driving is more than memorizing > unperverted words, so is nonduality. > what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you answear a simple question? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " <marktimmins60 wrote: > > what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > answear a simple question? > > Mark > Hi Mark, Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did understamd Niz. What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the base of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then consciousness can arise. Can you explain it to me ? If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my missing understanding. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " <marktimmins60 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > M: Ever notice how people > > > > > just can't tell the truth?? > > > > > > > > P: No, most people try to tell > > > > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > > > > > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here > > > because > > > > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened > state. > > > Would > > > > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta > according > > > to > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > > > > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > > > > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > > > > those words were translated into English they > > > > were perverted again. When someone reads them > > > > they are perverted once again. When that reader > > > > retells them perversion is added. So there > > > > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. > > > > > > > > > Yes, Pete, > > > > > > I see it just the same way ! > > > > > > Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely > wag > > > their tail > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > P: Hey, I rather hear old dogs, > > like you and Eric, barking than a > > parrot screeching unperverted teachings. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I think Nis' teachings > > are great. I read them several times, until > > they took root in my mind, which means they > > were perverted by my understanding, but in > > being perverted, they were changed to fit > > my life. Just like a suit to big, or small > > that you take to a tailor. > > > > Now, a parrot spouting unperverted words > > doesn't really understand the purpose of > > those words. You would not want a parrot > > for a driving instructor, even when the > > parrot has memorized the whole manual, it > > would say stop when you need to go, and > > vise versa. Driving is more than memorizing > > unperverted words, so is nonduality. > > >P: what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > answear a simple question? P: This is the first time you ask about my understanding, before you asked about unperverted words. There is no thing to understand. His words, if they work, take you beyond words to that which is prior to consciousness. Not much can be said about that. > > Mark > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > M: Ever notice how people > > > > > > just can't tell the truth?? > > > > > > > > > > P: No, most people try to tell > > > > > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here > > > > because > > > > > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened > > state. > > > > Would > > > > > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta > > according > > > > to > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > > > > > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > > > > > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > > > > > those words were translated into English they > > > > > were perverted again. When someone reads them > > > > > they are perverted once again. When that reader > > > > > retells them perversion is added. So there > > > > > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Pete, > > > > > > > > I see it just the same way ! > > > > > > > > Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely > > wag > > > > their tail > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > P: Hey, I rather hear old dogs, > > > like you and Eric, barking than a > > > parrot screeching unperverted teachings. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I think Nis' teachings > > > are great. I read them several times, until > > > they took root in my mind, which means they > > > were perverted by my understanding, but in > > > being perverted, they were changed to fit > > > my life. Just like a suit to big, or small > > > that you take to a tailor. > > > > > > Now, a parrot spouting unperverted words > > > doesn't really understand the purpose of > > > those words. You would not want a parrot > > > for a driving instructor, even when the > > > parrot has memorized the whole manual, it > > > would say stop when you need to go, and > > > vise versa. Driving is more than memorizing > > > unperverted words, so is nonduality. > > > > >P: what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > > answear a simple question? > > P: This is the first time you ask > about my understanding, before you > asked about unperverted words. There > is no thing to understand. His words, > if they work, take you beyond words > to that which is prior to consciousness. > > Not much can be said about that. > > > > > > Mark > > > When one successfully removes the thorn. the thorn one used is thrown away. Perhaps a little blood, a little pain, but life goes on....until the next time one comes in contact with a rosebush...and one remembers the sequence of events. ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Werner Woehr wrote: > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60 wrote: > >> what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's >> teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you >> answear a simple question? >> >> Mark >> >> > > > Hi Mark, > > Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did > understamd Niz. > > What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the base > of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then > consciousness can arise. > > Can you explain it to me ? > > If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my missing > understanding. > > Werner > > > > > --- > > Trying to understand that is like trying to understand a black hole. A black hole is a single point in time and space that has collapsed into infinite density. If something is infinitely dense, then it contains within it, the entirety of everything, even space it self, as space is also a thing. This means that everything in the universe consist of the exact same thing, no differentiation, at all. This is the condition of absolute unconditional love, where everything in existence is united, undifferentiated. But when we look into the universe, we see many things, that look very different, that look separate, separated over vast distances. This is true. But the separation is an illusion of perception, the perception of space and of time. The one commonality of everything in the universe though, is space. Consciousness is like the perceptual image of everything being separated, individuated in space and time. Awareness is before consciousness, before space and time, where everything is one, undifferentiated. It is from this undifferentiated awareness that the differentiation may occur, becoming consciousness. It is from this consciousness where the mind and body find form. The body/mind and consciousness, arise out of the infinite nature of awareness. Its like an infinite feed back loop, where everything both collapses and expands at the same time and in the same space, both everywhere and nowhere being perceived as being separate. Awareness is never separated though, only perceived as being separated. Of course you will be-able to poke holes in my conceptualisation, but that's the nature of consciousness though, in my opinion, to differentiate, to separate. tyga tyga Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > M: Ever notice how people > > > > > > just can't tell the truth?? > > > > > > > > P: No, most people try to tell > > > > > the truth as they see it, most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > >M: But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here > > > > because > > > > > > you might have missed the question in your enlightened > > state. > > > > Would > > > > > > you tell me the unperverted teachings of Nisargadatta > > according > > > > to > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > P: I have no such thing. When the teachings came > > > > > to Nis' mind they were not perverted. When he > > > > > spoke them, he perverted them with words. When > > > > > those words were translated into English they > > > > > were perverted again. When someone reads them > > > > > they are perverted once again. When that reader > > > > > retells them perversion is added. So there > > > > > is no such thing as unperverted Nis's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Pete, > > > > > > > > I see it just the same way ! > > > > > > > > Old dogs know a lot of perversion. They rarely bark and rarely > > wag > > > > their tail > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > P: Hey, I rather hear old dogs, > > > like you and Eric, barking than a > > > parrot screeching unperverted teachings. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I think Nis' teachings > > > are great. I read them several times, until > > > they took root in my mind, which means they > > > were perverted by my understanding, but in > > > being perverted, they were changed to fit > > > my life. Just like a suit to big, or small > > > that you take to a tailor. > > > > > > Now, a parrot spouting unperverted words > > > doesn't really understand the purpose of > > > those words. You would not want a parrot > > > for a driving instructor, even when the > > > parrot has memorized the whole manual, it > > > would say stop when you need to go, and > > > vise versa. Driving is more than memorizing > > > unperverted words, so is nonduality. > > > > >P: what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > > answear a simple question? > > P: This is the first time you ask > about my understanding, before you > asked about unperverted words. There > is no thing to understand. His words, > if they work, take you beyond words > to that which is prior to consciousness. > > Not much can be said about that. > > > > > > Mark > > > well pete you were the one to say I perverted Nisargadatta words,so since you can't tell me, I will tell you. understanding points the way to the only moment,this one. where words are not perverted they are simply unnecessary. if you are speaking Nis's words as he taught them,they are once removed from the moment, but certainly not perverted, just irrelevant. is this too subtle for you? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > > answear a simple question? > > > > Mark > > > > > Hi Mark, > > Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did > understamd Niz. > > What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the base > of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then > consciousness can arise. > > Can you explain it to me ? > > If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my missing > understanding. > > Werner > Werner there is no consciousness without awareness. when you sleep you are not conscious,but when you awake you are aware that you were asleep, are you not? there are levels of consiousness that arise when you are aware. but the question I have is why does it matter? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 marktimmins60 wrote: >> >> > Werner > there is no consciousness without awareness. when you sleep you are > not conscious,but when you awake you are aware that you were asleep, > are you not? there are levels of consiousness that arise when you are > aware. > but the question I have is why does it matter? > Mark > > > --- > > It matters because that is the nature of consciousness. If it didn't matter, there would be no consciousness, nothing to be aware of. tyga Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > marktimmins60 wrote: > >> > >> > > Werner > > there is no consciousness without awareness. when you sleep you are > > not conscious,but when you awake you are aware that you were asleep, > > are you not? there are levels of consiousness that arise when you are > > aware. > > but the question I have is why does it matter? > > Mark > > > > > > --- > > > > > It matters because that is the nature of consciousness. If it didn't > matter, there would be no consciousness, nothing to be aware of. > > tyga > tyga, the nature of consciousness is matter? that would be ego,to my way of thinking. the nature of consciousness is awareness. the nature of ego is mind and the nature of mind is heart, because the first thought mind has/had is I am. And the nature of awareness is love. but nothing(who you are)matters. or something like that. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 marktimmins60 wrote: > > tyga, > the nature of consciousness is matter? that would be ego,to my way of > thinking. the nature of consciousness is awareness. > the nature of ego is mind and the nature of mind is heart, because > the first thought mind has/had is I am. And the nature of awareness > is love. but nothing(who you are)matters. or something like that. > Mark > > > > --- > > There is no ego, so there really is no use discussing ego, we might as well discard that old idea to the waste basket, where it belongs. The nature of consciousness is materialisation. That would be consciousness,to my way of thinking. Literally. My thinking materialises out of consciousness. The nature of consciousness is the materialisations of awareness. In other words, consciousness materialises out of/from awareness. Mind materialises out of consciousness and the nature of mind is thought, because the first thought mind has/had is I am. I am simply means, self-conscious, arising out of the self, which is false. As this would mean that consciousness arose out of itself, which is impossible. And the nature of awareness is absolute unconditional love. But nothing (who you are) materialises . Because what materialises is what you think and what you think materialises out of consciousness, which arises from awareness. What is awareness then? Awareness is the infinite potential which contains all possibilities, the absolute, oneness, the singularity. In my opinion. tyga Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > >> what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > >> teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > >> answear a simple question? > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did > > understamd Niz. > > > > What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the base > > of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then > > consciousness can arise. > > > > Can you explain it to me ? > > > > If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my missing > > understanding. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > Trying to understand that is like trying to understand a black hole. > > A black hole is a single point in time and space that has collapsed into > infinite density. If something is infinitely dense, then it contains > within it, the entirety of everything, even space it self, as space is > also a thing. This means that everything in the universe consist of the > exact same thing, no differentiation, at all. This is the condition of > absolute unconditional love, where everything in existence is united, > undifferentiated. But when we look into the universe, we see many > things, that look very different, that look separate, separated over > vast distances. This is true. But the separation is an illusion of > perception, the perception of space and of time. The one commonality of > everything in the universe though, is space.lems Hi Tyga, Thanks for your nice reply. First let me say that I have some problems with explaining love, not to speak of " unconditional love " . Why can't we just forget all that love stories and just love when we love and don't when we don't ? Now, separation is NOT created by consciousness but by thought. It is the categorising thought which introduces separation. > > Consciousness is like the perceptual image of everything being > separated, individuated in space and time. As already wrote it is not consciousness which creates separation but it is thought which categorites the contents of consciousness. > Awareness is before > consciousness, before space and time, where everything is one, > undifferentiated. It is from this undifferentiated awareness that the > differentiation may occur, becoming consciousness. It is from this > consciousness where the mind and body find form. First, I must tell you that the German language does't have the word " awareness " . There is only " consciousness " . Therefore whenever you or someone else speaks or writes about " awareness " the I have no clue what that means. But during those many years visitng several lists and surfing the web I realzed that the word awareness in most cases ís used synonymously to consciousness and second, like in " to be aware of " , it is used in a way as there would exist a separate entity, separate from consciousness, which is aware of the contents of consciousness. In different words it is used in the sense of " the " ego is aware of " . > > The body/mind and consciousness, arise out of the infinite nature of > awareness. Hm, infinite nature ? I have no idea what that is. And so I also have no clue what the infinite nature of that funny " awareness " really could be. Can't we forget all that infinite stuff and better get back down to earth and behave like everyday people ? > Its like an infinite feed back loop, where everything both > collapses and expands at the same time and in the same space, both > everywhere and nowhere being perceived as being separate. Awareness is > never separated though, only perceived as being separated. > > Of course you will be-able to poke holes in my conceptualisation, but > that's the nature of consciousness though, in my opinion, to > differentiate, to separate. > Surely, Tyga, all conceptualization in some way is guessing but somnetimes guessing also can hit the mark and so enriching one's understanding and broaden one's views. Werner > > tyga > > > tyga > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " <marktimmins60 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > > > what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > > > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > > > answear a simple question? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did > > understamd Niz. > > > > What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the > base > > of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then > > consciousness can arise. > > > > Can you explain it to me ? > > > > If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my missing > > understanding. > > > > Werner > > > Werner > there is no consciousness without awareness. when you sleep you are > not conscious,but when you awake you are aware that you were asleep, > are you not? Yes, but remembering the past is memory which then became the content of consciousness. > there are levels of consiousness that arise when you are > aware. Sorry, there only is consciousness but no levels. Those so called " levels " of consciousness are created by the categorizing thought. > but the question I have is why does it matter? > Mark Does heavy tooth ache matter ? Maybe not for you but definitely for me, I will hurry like hell to get to the dentist Werner > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " <marktimmins60 wrote: .... > well pete you were the one to say I perverted Nisargadatta words,so > since you can't tell me, I will tell you. understanding points the way > to the only moment,this one. where words are not perverted they are > simply unnecessary. if you are speaking Nis's words as he taught > them,they are once removed from the moment, but certainly not > perverted, just irrelevant. is this too subtle for you? > Mark And that dude's words would do that to you better than my words? Pete's words? Who is a good enough learner to know where the next lesson comes from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " <ericparoissien wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > ... > > > well pete you were the one to say I perverted Nisargadatta words,so > > since you can't tell me, I will tell you. understanding points the way > > to the only moment,this one. where words are not perverted they are > > simply unnecessary. if you are speaking Nis's words as he taught > > them,they are once removed from the moment, but certainly not > > perverted, just irrelevant. is this too subtle for you? > > Mark P: Yes, too subtle! Please explain. Is this moment that you refer to, different from consciousness? Or is this moment identical with this consciousness now? When you are unconscious can there be moments then? If you are satisfied with this moment, then, you don't transcend consciousness. Maharaj recommended that we investigate words, and consciousness to realize what is prior to consciousness. Let me say it again, in a more graphic way, so that it's easy to understand. Majarah's words are the menu, if you keep reading the menu without ordering the food, no thing gets done. If a small child is handed a menu, he/she would play with it put it in his mouth, chew at it, but not order food. This is not about playing with concepts, it's about realizing that the games we play with words, and our fascination with perception hides the absolute. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > marktimmins60 wrote: > > > > tyga, > > the nature of consciousness is matter? that would be ego,to my way of > > thinking. the nature of consciousness is awareness. > > the nature of ego is mind and the nature of mind is heart, because > > the first thought mind has/had is I am. And the nature of awareness > > is love. but nothing(who you are)matters. or something like that. > > Mark > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > There is no ego, so there really is no use discussing ego, we might as > well discard that old idea to the waste basket, where it belongs. > > The nature of consciousness is materialisation. > > That would be consciousness,to my way of thinking. Literally. My thinking materialises out of consciousness. > > The nature of consciousness is the materialisations of awareness. In other words, consciousness materialises out of/from awareness. > > Mind materialises out of consciousness and the nature of mind is thought, because the first thought mind has/had is I am. I am simply means, self-conscious, arising out of the self, which is false. As this would mean that consciousness arose out of itself, which is impossible. > > > > And the nature of awareness is absolute unconditional love. > > But nothing (who you are) materialises . Because what materialises is what you think and what you think materialises out of consciousness, which arises from awareness. > > What is awareness then? > > Awareness is the infinite potential which contains all possibilities, the absolute, oneness, the singularity. > > > In my opinion. > > > > > tyga > tyga, correct there is no ego hence their is no mind there is only perception.(I like the preciseness of that word) correct me if I am wrong,but this sounds like some kind of science of mind belief? and sense we have discarded ego and mind,this would appear perverted(pete's word). Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > <ericparoissien@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > ... > > > > > well pete you were the one to say I perverted Nisargadatta words,so > > > since you can't tell me, I will tell you. understanding points the way > > > to the only moment,this one. where words are not perverted they are > > > simply unnecessary. if you are speaking Nis's words as he taught > > > them,they are once removed from the moment, but certainly not > > > perverted, just irrelevant. is this too subtle for you? > > > Mark > > P: Yes, too subtle! Please explain. Is this moment > that you refer to, different from consciousness? Or is > this moment identical with this consciousness > now? When you are unconscious can there be moments > then? If you are satisfied with this moment, then, > you don't transcend consciousness. > > Maharaj recommended that we investigate words, and > consciousness to realize what is prior to > consciousness. Let me say it again, in a more graphic > way, so that it's easy to understand. Majarah's words > are the menu, if you keep reading the menu withoout > ordering the food, no thing gets done. If a small > child is handed a menu, he/she would play with it > put it in his mouth, chew at it, but not order food. > > This is not about playing with concepts, it's > about realizing that the games we play with words, > and our fascination with perception hides the > absolute. > > > yes the moment is awareness. But why the focus on mind activity. focusing on the words, and the games is more minderbation.Enough I say. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " marktimmins60 " > > > <marktimmins60@> wrote: > > > > > > > > what did you come to understand of Nisargadatta's > > > > teaching in your mind? Pete, I ask for the third time. Can you > > > > answear a simple question? > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > > > Allow me to step in because you make the impression that you did > > > understamd Niz. > > > > > > What I never understod was Niz's statement that awareness is the > > base > > > of consciousness. First there must be awareness and then > > > consciousness can arise. > > > > > > Can you explain it to me ? > > > > > > If I have put that question in a wrong way it is dues to my > missing > > > understanding. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > Werner > > there is no consciousness without awareness. when you sleep you are > > not conscious,but when you awake you are aware that you were > asleep, > > are you not? > > > Yes, but remembering the past is memory which then became the content > of consciousness. > > > > there are levels of consiousness that arise when you are > > aware. > > > Sorry, there only is consciousness but no levels. Those so > called " levels " of consciousness are created by the categorizing > thought. > > > > but the question I have is why does it matter? > > Mark > > > Does heavy tooth ache matter ? Maybe not for you but definitely for > me, I will hurry like hell to get to the dentist > > Werner > > > > > awareness is present always. memory is mind. does a dog have the same consciousness as a human? of course there are levels. your toothache don't matter to me. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Tyga: Awareness is before > consciousness, before space and time, where everything is one, > undifferentiated. It is from this undifferentiated awareness that the > differentiation may occur, becoming consciousness. It is from this > consciousness where the mind and body find form. > > The body/mind and consciousness, arise out of the infinite nature of > awareness. Its like an infinite feed back loop, where everything both > collapses and expands at the same time and in the same space, both > everywhere and nowhere being perceived as being separate. Awareness is > never separated though, only perceived as being separated. > > Of course you will be-able to poke holes in my conceptualisation, but > that's the nature of consciousness though, in my opinion, to > differentiate, to separate. > > > tyga Hi Tyga, Do you mind if I ask two questions about what you wrote above? You stated awareness is before consciousness, have you perceived that, or are you repeating the words of another? If it's your perception, then what is the perceptual difference between being conscious and being aware? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
