Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > nothing's happening. > > ain't that something? > > b.b.b. The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of co-origination, is that nothing is happening. To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening -- that's the rub! -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > ain't that something? > > > > b.b.b. > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > -- that's the rub! > > -- Dan > As soon as you see that there is nothing.......it reappears. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > > > ain't that something? > > > > > > b.b.b. > > > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > > -- that's the rub! > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing.......it reappears. > > > > toombaru > As soon as you see that there is nothing....it becomes something. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it > isn't......and > > > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > > > > > ain't that something? > > > > > > > > b.b.b. > > > > > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > > > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > > > > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > > > -- that's the rub! > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing.......it reappears. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing....it becomes something. > > > > toombaru > the seeing is neither here no there...;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > > > ain't that something? > > > > > > b.b.b. > > > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > > -- that's the rub! > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing.......it reappears. > > > > toombaru that's the 'something' that ain't because nothing ain't happening. it ain't nothing really..that 'ain't that's something'..... damn it's a cruel world! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it > isn't......and > > > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > > > > > ain't that something? > > > > > > > > b.b.b. > > > > > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > > > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > > > > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > > > -- that's the rub! > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing.......it reappears. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > As soon as you see that there is nothing....it becomes something. > > > > toombaru true...IF..you're time bound. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > There can be no shift. > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > that ain't happenin. > > > > toombaru > *********************** Right, because it's all one thing. Some thing doesn't change into some other thing. Silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > *********************** > Right, because it's all one thing. Some thing doesn't change into some > other thing. > > Silver that's the thing about things.... i 'thing' that's the thing. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > ain't that something? > > > > b.b.b. > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching of > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality intervening > -- that's the rub! > > -- Dan > *************** So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they misunderstand " nothing is happening. " Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to exit " the easy way out. " Either all is happening or you're already dead! Silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no shift. > > > > > > > > Something would have to change into something that it > isn't......and > > > > that ain't happenin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not only that aint happening... > > > > > > nothing's happening. > > > > > > ain't that something? > > > > > > b.b.b. > > > > The most misunderstood teaching in the world, next to the teaching > of > > co-origination, is that nothing is happening. > > > > To know/be this nothing first hand, with no conceptuality > intervening > > -- that's the rub! > > > > -- Dan > > > *************** > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > exit " the easy way out. " > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > Silver a la toombaru: that which has never been born..cannot be dead. or is that... that which has never been dead can never be born? nah... that's leaning a little bit heavy on the hindu trip there. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 There can be no shift. Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and that ain't happenin. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > *************** > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " One is this no-thing. Blood is this no-thing. There is no objectification that has ever taken place. This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly of self - that is the misunderstanding. > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > exit " the easy way out. " Yes. It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion upon confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying to avoid this truth. Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but a recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or her life to save several others). > Either all is happening or you're already dead! I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > *************** > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > One is this no-thing. > > Blood is this no-thing. > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly of > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > > exit " the easy way out. " > > Yes. > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion upon > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying to > avoid this truth. > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but a > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or her > life to save several others). > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > -- Dan this whole shift thing sounds pretty shifty. are we talking about the night shift or the day shift here? or are we just shifting the blame off onto some kind of nothing thing? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > There can be no shift. > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > that ain't happenin. > > > > toombaru not only that aint happening... nothing's happening. ain't that something? b.b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > There can be no shift. > > Something would have to change into something that it isn't......and > that ain't happenin. > > > > toombaru The shift is a placebo medication. -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > *************** > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly of > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > Yes. > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion upon > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying to > > avoid this truth. > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but a > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or her > > life to save several others). > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > -- Dan > > > > this whole shift thing sounds pretty shifty. > > are we talking about the night shift or the day shift here? > > or are we just shifting the blame off onto some kind of nothing thing? > > .b b.b. > The shift is a gentle removal of the last veil, the inside and outside are One. In essence, even that shift disappears, as only THIs remains. However, one does get lost in the experience ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > *************** > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > One is this no-thing. > > Blood is this no-thing. > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly of > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > > exit " the easy way out. " > > Yes. > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion upon > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying to > avoid this truth. > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but a > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or her > life to save several others). > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > -- Dan > ************************* Hi Dan, Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to it. And I trust that. On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is alive, I am alive; and it's all good. If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny Life. In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. We're not in control. Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self-concepts and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the body. Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited and we're both really dead? Silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > *************** > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > with > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly > of > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better > to > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > might be > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide > to > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > Yes. > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion > upon > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying > to > > avoid this truth. > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but > a > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or > her > > life to save several others). > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > -- Dan > > > ************************* > Hi Dan, > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to > it. And I trust that. > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny > Life. > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. > We're not in control. > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self-concepts > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the > body. > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited > and we're both really dead? > > Silver > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your own swirling mnemonic debris. The same can be said of your waiking world. That apperception is available to a few. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > *************** > > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > > with > > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly > > of > > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better > > to > > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > > might be > > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide > > to > > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion > > upon > > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying > > to > > > avoid this truth. > > > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but > > a > > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or > > her > > > life to save several others). > > > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > ************************* > > Hi Dan, > > > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be > > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to > > it. And I trust that. > > > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my > > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is > > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. > > > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is > > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me > > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other > > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny > > Life. > > > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. > > We're not in control. > > > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self-concepts > > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the > > body. > > > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited > > and we're both really dead? > > > > Silver > > > > > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. > > When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite > real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your own > swirling mnemonic debris. > > > The same can be said of your waiking world. > > That apperception is available to a few. > > > toombaru > That apperception is LIMITLESS!! ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > *************** > > > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > > > with > > > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly > > > of > > > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better > > > to > > > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > > > might be > > > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide > > > to > > > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion > > > upon > > > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying > > > to > > > > avoid this truth. > > > > > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but > > > a > > > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or > > > her > > > > life to save several others). > > > > > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > ************************* > > > Hi Dan, > > > > > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be > > > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > > > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to > > > it. And I trust that. > > > > > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my > > > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is > > > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. > > > > > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is > > > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > > > > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > > > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > > > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me > > > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > > > > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other > > > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny > > > Life. > > > > > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. > > > We're not in control. > > > > > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self-concepts > > > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the > > > body. > > > > > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited > > > and we're both really dead? > > > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. > > > > When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite > > real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your own > > swirling mnemonic debris. > > > > > > The same can be said of your waiking world. > > > > That apperception is available to a few. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > That apperception is LIMITLESS!! ;-) available to a few? just how many? i mean...there's only One that can be One with One. thousands of thousands have what being talked about above. that's really is no big deal. the 'few' are just confused.. and full of conceit over a common apperception: (the process whereby perceived qualities of an object are related to past experience). there IS a very Select for which objects truly do not exist..in relational terms or otherwise, and no 'processes, nor 'experiences apply. We are pleased to witness the striving of the phantom few. Mayhap 'they' will see the folly of their thinking and join Me. God bless the children in that Child. ..b bobji baba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > *************** > > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > > with > > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly > > of > > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better > > to > > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > > might be > > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide > > to > > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion > > upon > > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying > > to > > > avoid this truth. > > > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but > > a > > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or > > her > > > life to save several others). > > > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > ************************* > > Hi Dan, > > > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be > > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to > > it. And I trust that. > > > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my > > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is > > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. > > > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is > > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me > > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other > > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny > > Life. > > > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. > > We're not in control. > > > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self- concepts > > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the > > body. > > > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited > > and we're both really dead? > > > > Silver > > > > > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. > > When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite > real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your own > swirling mnemonic debris. > > > The same can be said of your waiking world. > > That apperception is available to a few. > > > toombaru > ******************************** My growing children and their needs; my spouse and her needs; my parents' aging and their needs; my father's recovery from cancer and his needs...swirling mnemonic debris? Am I dreaming all of it? Silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > *************** > > > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those > attempting to > > > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > > > with > > > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - > particularly > > > of > > > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered > territory " > > > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's > better > > > to > > > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > > > might be > > > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who > decide > > > to > > > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds > confusion > > > upon > > > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, > could > > > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this > body. > > > > > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to > be > > > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues > trying > > > to > > > > avoid this truth. > > > > > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, > but > > > a > > > > recognition of the best action one can take under the > circumstances > > > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his > or > > > her > > > > life to save several others). > > > > > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > ************************* > > > Hi Dan, > > > > > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well > be > > > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > > > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive > to > > > it. And I trust that. > > > > > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. > Again, my > > > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world > is > > > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to > me. > > > > > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world > is > > > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > > > > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > > > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > > > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings > me > > > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > > > > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe > other > > > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to > deny > > > Life. > > > > > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we > feel. > > > We're not in control. > > > > > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self- > concepts > > > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to > the > > > body. > > > > > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear > intuited > > > and we're both really dead? > > > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. > > > > When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite > > real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your > own > > swirling mnemonic debris. > > > > > > The same can be said of your waiking world. > > > > That apperception is available to a few. > > > > > > toombaru > > > ******************************** > My growing children and their needs; my spouse and her needs; my > parents' aging and their needs; my father's recovery from cancer and > his needs...swirling mnemonic debris? Am I dreaming all of it? > > Silver there appears that among the 'select few'(?) there is one who dreams that that is true. and from the Non-dream Reality this: dream on dreamers while ye may. Truth will prevail as Truth is All that IS. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > *************** > > > > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those > > attempting to > > > > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > > > > with > > > > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > > > > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > > > > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > > > > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - > > particularly > > > > of > > > > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered > > territory " > > > > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's > > better > > > > to > > > > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > > > > might be > > > > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who > > decide > > > > to > > > > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds > > confusion > > > > upon > > > > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, > > could > > > > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this > > body. > > > > > > > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to > > be > > > > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues > > trying > > > > to > > > > > avoid this truth. > > > > > > > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, > > but > > > > a > > > > > recognition of the best action one can take under the > > circumstances > > > > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > > > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his > > or > > > > her > > > > > life to save several others). > > > > > > > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > ************************* > > > > Hi Dan, > > > > > > > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well > > be > > > > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > > > > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive > > to > > > > it. And I trust that. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. > > Again, my > > > > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world > > is > > > > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to > > me. > > > > > > > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world > > is > > > > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > > > > > > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > > > > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > > > > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings > > me > > > > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > > > > > > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe > > other > > > > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to > > deny > > > > Life. > > > > > > > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we > > feel. > > > > We're not in control. > > > > > > > > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self- > > concepts > > > > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to > > the > > > > body. > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear > > intuited > > > > and we're both really dead? > > > > > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > > > > > > To mistake one's perceptions for reality is the dream. > > > > > > When you are dreaming at night......everything appears quite > > > real.....and yet those people and mountains exist only within your > > own > > > swirling mnemonic debris. > > > > > > > > > The same can be said of your waking world. > > > > > > That apperception is available to a few. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > ******************************** > > My growing children and their needs; my spouse and her needs; my > > parents' aging and their needs; my father's recovery from cancer and > > his needs...swirling mnemonic debris? Am I dreaming all of it? > > > > Silver > > > > All of that is the Great Machine.....grinding on as it must. There is dreaming.......but no dreamer. The dream and the dreamer are inseparable. The content of consciousness is consciousness itself. There is nothing beyond the dream. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > *************** > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere with > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly of > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better to > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There might be > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide to > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > Yes. > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion upon > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying to > > avoid this truth. > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but a > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or her > > life to save several others). > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > -- Dan > > > > this whole shift thing sounds pretty shifty. > > are we talking about the night shift or the day shift here? > > or are we just shifting the blame off onto some kind of nothing thing? > > .b b.b. Nothing happens. That statement is open to so much misinterpretation, it's ridiculous. And if one knows what it means, the statement also is included. -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Silver " <silver@> wrote: > > > > > *************** > > > So long as blood courses through the veins of those attempting to > > > know / become as nothing and concepts intervene and interfere > with > > > their efforts to know / be nothing, so shall they > > > misunderstand " nothing is happening. " > > > > One is this no-thing. > > > > Blood is this no-thing. > > > > There is no objectification that has ever taken place. > > > > This is *it* -- it's only one's own objectification - particularly > of > > self - that is the misunderstanding. > > > > > Shakespearean contemplation of what the " undiscovered territory " > > > might hold in store can lead to the conclusion that it's better > to > > > stick around in spite of suffering because, who knows? There > might be > > > a place of even greater suffering awaiting all those who decide > to > > > exit " the easy way out. " > > > > Yes. > > > > It was his intuition, I think, that often suicide adds confusion > upon > > confusion, so that trying to escape the images of this dream, could > > lead to an even more distorted dream after the death of this body. > > > > The one trying to escape is not separate from what is trying to be > > escaped. So, one is aware as this *now* -- or one continues trying > to > > avoid this truth. > > > > Suicide, though, may sometimes not be a means to try to escape, but > a > > recognition of the best action one can take under the circumstances > > (e.g., a person who is terminally ill doesn't want to create a > > financial and emotional burden to family; a soldier gives his or > her > > life to save several others). > > > > > Either all is happening or you're already dead! > > > > I'm not sure this is an either/or statement. > > > > -- Dan > > > ************************* > Hi Dan, > > Good stuff! I'm not so sure about that either. It could very well be > that the world's happening to a dead me. I don't know that I feel > dead to the world; my intuition tells me that I'm very much alive to > it. And I trust that. > > On the other hand, perhaps the world is dead and I'm alive. Again, my > spidey senses tell me that's not true, either. I feel the world is > very much alive with all kinds of things happening around and to me. > > I feel better adhering to a life affirming philosophy. The world is > alive, I am alive; and it's all good. > > If I were to adopt the other view that the world is dead and I'm > dead, that just depresses me. And being a living human being, > concerned with its own survival, I will avoid that which brings me > pain and move toward that which brings me pleasure. > > Thus, affirming Life, reverencing It is my conditioning. Maybe other > people have, through no fault of their own, been conditioned to deny > Life. > > In the end, it doesn't really matter what we believe or what we feel. > We're not in control. Yes. If the " we " does not pertain, the issue of control dissolves. Defining what life is has no relevance (for whom) and philosophy goes out the window! > Body does whatever it does on its own, no help from our self-concepts > and other-concepts. Philosophies do not mean a damned thing to the > body. > > Perhaps this is the " even more distorted dream " Shakespear intuited > and we're both really dead? Yes, this is what I was getting at. When was the first death? How many times has it happened? To whom? In what way is this experience now able to be determined as being before death or after death? Only in relation to a body/mind-concept. Without reference to any conceptuality, where does the body begin or end? Where is its inside or outside? To whom does it belong? Is it an object? How can you tell? When touch happens, is that occurring inside or outside oneself? -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
