Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple as it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing with it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this life. The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to God in wordless adoration. It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in solitude, and there were no priests authorized to come between a man and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with the religious experience of another. Among us all men were created sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Our faith might not be formulated in creeds, nor forced upon any who were unwilling to receive it; hence there was no preaching, proselyting, nor persecution, neither were there any scoffers or atheists. There were no temples or shrines among us save those of nature. Being a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. He would deem it sacrilege to build a house for Him who may be met face to face in the mysterious, shadowy aisles of the primeval forest, or on the sunlit bosom of virgin prairies, upon dizzy spires and pinnacles of naked rock, and yonder in the jeweled vault of the night sky! He who enrobes Himself in filmy veils of cloud, there on the rim of the visible world where our Great-Grandfather Sun kindles his evening camp-fire, He who rides upon the rigorous wind of the north, or breathes forth His spirit upon aromatic southern airs, whose war- canoe is launched upon majestic rivers and inland seas -- He needs no lesser cathedral! If you are somewhat familiar with sufi philosophy, you can readily see the Sufi ideas so deep in the native american philosophy. Sufis are ultimate mystics who see Beloved God as 'the Great Mystic' and one saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him goes very well here, " God says: Man is My secret and I'm his secret " . Being a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. And Sufis are the most gifted poets in the world. Sufis love solitary and they truly understand the value of solitude. As Rumi says, " Which is worth more, a crowd of thousands, or your own genuine solitude? Freedom, or power over an entire nation? A little while alone in your room will prove more valuable than anything else that could ever be given you. " Silent and solitary rememberance of God (zikr) is an essential practice of the Sufis. They look into the Final Testament (The Quran) as well for inspiration: Indeed Remembrance of God is the best without doubt. The Quran: 029.045 Sufis also believe in direct communication with God. Infact they believe it so much that they sees God as their Beloved, nearer than anything else. Thus the need for priest, clergymen are eliminated to communicate with the Divine. Sufis also don't seek the temple or any ritualistic places of worship to sing the praise of God. For a Sufi- Heart is the most sacred space in the entire cosmos, so much so that they believe that Heart is the Throne of God. Thus they turn inside to the heart where the Beloved God is ever present. This also shows that true spirituality doesn't depend on faith, dogmas or language. It matters little what your faith is ... and to make things clear, let me add 'The Sufi sees the truth in every religion'. As one friend comments, all spiritual paths are streams flowing into the same Ocean. How true it is! Source: " The Soul of the Indian " by: Charles Alexander Eastman (1911) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple as > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing with > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this life. No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to > God in wordless adoration. Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self seeking. Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > solitude, " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in half....without putting the self in jeopardy. and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with > the religious experience of another. That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. Among us all men were created > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. Religion is religion is religion. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple as > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing with > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this life. > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to > God in wordless adoration. > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > solitude, and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with > the religious experience of another. Among us all men were created > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Our > faith might not be formulated in creeds, nor forced upon any who were > unwilling to receive it; hence there was no preaching, proselyting, > nor persecution, neither were there any scoffers or atheists. > > There were no temples or shrines among us save those of nature. Being > a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. He would deem it > sacrilege to build a house for Him who may be met face to face in the > mysterious, shadowy aisles of the primeval forest, or on the sunlit > bosom of virgin prairies, upon dizzy spires and pinnacles of naked > rock, and yonder in the jeweled vault of the night sky! He who > enrobes Himself in filmy veils of cloud, there on the rim of the > visible world where our Great-Grandfather Sun kindles his evening > camp-fire, He who rides upon the rigorous wind of the north, or > breathes forth His spirit upon aromatic southern airs, whose war- > canoe is launched upon majestic rivers and inland seas -- He needs no > lesser cathedral! > > If you are somewhat familiar with sufi philosophy, you can readily > see the Sufi ideas so deep in the native american philosophy. > > Sufis are ultimate mystics who see Beloved God as 'the Great Mystic' > and one saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him goes very well > here, " God says: Man is My secret and I'm his secret " . > > Being a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. And Sufis are > the most gifted poets in the world. Sufis love solitary and they > truly understand the value of solitude. As Rumi says, " Which is worth > more, a crowd of thousands, or your own genuine solitude? Freedom, or > power over an entire nation? A little while alone in your room will > prove more valuable than anything else that could ever be given you. " > > Silent and solitary rememberance of God (zikr) is an essential > practice of the Sufis. They look into the Final Testament (The Quran) > as well for inspiration: Indeed Remembrance of God is the best > without doubt. The Quran: 029.045 > > Sufis also believe in direct communication with God. Infact they > believe it so much that they sees God as their Beloved, nearer than > anything else. Thus the need for priest, clergymen are eliminated to > communicate with the Divine. > > Sufis also don't seek the temple or any ritualistic places of worship > to sing the praise of God. For a Sufi- Heart is the most sacred space > in the entire cosmos, so much so that they believe that Heart is the > Throne of God. Thus they turn inside to the heart where the Beloved > God is ever present. > > This also shows that true spirituality doesn't depend on faith, > dogmas or language. It matters little what your faith is ... and to > make things clear, let me add 'The Sufi sees the truth in every > religion'. > > As one friend comments, all spiritual paths are streams flowing into > the same Ocean. How true it is! > > Source: " The Soul of the Indian " by: Charles Alexander Eastman (1911) > Thank you for posting this Bobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple as > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing with > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this life. > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental beginning of duality. I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks never consider it, let alone pay hommage. And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent Silence. Anna > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self seeking. > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > solitude, > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with > > the religious experience of another. > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > Among us all men were created > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > simple as > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > with > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > beginning of duality. > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent > Silence. > > Anna > > My dearest annie, that is not true on any level, if you'll excuse my calusness toward your cherished romanticism. The great plains of the western U.S., were once entirely forested, until our noble savages burned it down. We are, ourselves, noble savages. Nor have I ever met anyone who didn't love mother nature, experienced it's mystical allure. As for Silence, it wins all popularity contests, hands down (or up). Elitism has infinite permutations. ordinarily love yer words (whatever yer distaste for mine) ~*~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > simple as > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > > beginning of duality. > > > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks > > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent > > Silence. > > > > Anna > > > > > My dearest annie, that is not true on any level, if you'll excuse my > calusness toward your cherished romanticism. The great plains of the > western U.S., were once entirely forested, until our noble savages > burned it down. > > We are, ourselves, noble savages. > > Nor have I ever met anyone who didn't love mother nature, experienced > it's mystical allure. As for Silence, it wins all popularity > contests, hands down (or up). > > Elitism has infinite permutations. > > ordinarily love yer words > (whatever yer distaste for mine) > > ~*~ > My dear, there is no problem here. Yes, we are savages, noble and otherwise. Elitism is a refined taste. I'm afraid. Tasting the whole picture, I remain, Yours in Love, and only in Love, I shall remain. Time wears away everything else. Or time burns everything in the fires of 'distaste', ever smoldering, ever ready to be burn with a vengeance. Anna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple as > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing with > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this life. > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self seeking. > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > solitude, > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with > > the religious experience of another. > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see how what you say really falls apart under intelligent examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > Among us all men were created > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > Religion is religion is religion. > toombaru absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them chum. ...............bob p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought you'd like to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > as > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > with > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > life. > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free from > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > necessity > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended > to > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > solitude, and there were no priests authorized to come between a > man > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > with > > the religious experience of another. Among us all men were created > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Our > > faith might not be formulated in creeds, nor forced upon any who > were > > unwilling to receive it; hence there was no preaching, > proselyting, > > nor persecution, neither were there any scoffers or atheists. > > > > There were no temples or shrines among us save those of nature. > Being > > a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. He would deem it > > sacrilege to build a house for Him who may be met face to face in > the > > mysterious, shadowy aisles of the primeval forest, or on the > sunlit > > bosom of virgin prairies, upon dizzy spires and pinnacles of naked > > rock, and yonder in the jeweled vault of the night sky! He who > > enrobes Himself in filmy veils of cloud, there on the rim of the > > visible world where our Great-Grandfather Sun kindles his evening > > camp-fire, He who rides upon the rigorous wind of the north, or > > breathes forth His spirit upon aromatic southern airs, whose war- > > canoe is launched upon majestic rivers and inland seas -- He needs > no > > lesser cathedral! > > > > If you are somewhat familiar with sufi philosophy, you can readily > > see the Sufi ideas so deep in the native american philosophy. > > > > Sufis are ultimate mystics who see Beloved God as 'the Great > Mystic' > > and one saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him goes very > well > > here, " God says: Man is My secret and I'm his secret " . > > > > Being a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. And Sufis > are > > the most gifted poets in the world. Sufis love solitary and they > > truly understand the value of solitude. As Rumi says, " Which is > worth > > more, a crowd of thousands, or your own genuine solitude? Freedom, > or > > power over an entire nation? A little while alone in your room > will > > prove more valuable than anything else that could ever be given > you. " > > > > Silent and solitary rememberance of God (zikr) is an essential > > practice of the Sufis. They look into the Final Testament (The > Quran) > > as well for inspiration: Indeed Remembrance of God is the best > > without doubt. The Quran: 029.045 > > > > Sufis also believe in direct communication with God. Infact they > > believe it so much that they sees God as their Beloved, nearer > than > > anything else. Thus the need for priest, clergymen are eliminated > to > > communicate with the Divine. > > > > Sufis also don't seek the temple or any ritualistic places of > worship > > to sing the praise of God. For a Sufi- Heart is the most sacred > space > > in the entire cosmos, so much so that they believe that Heart is > the > > Throne of God. Thus they turn inside to the heart where the > Beloved > > God is ever present. > > > > This also shows that true spirituality doesn't depend on faith, > > dogmas or language. It matters little what your faith is ... and > to > > make things clear, let me add 'The Sufi sees the truth in every > > religion'. > > > > As one friend comments, all spiritual paths are streams flowing > into > > the same Ocean. How true it is! > > > > Source: " The Soul of the Indian " by: Charles Alexander Eastman > (1911) > > > > > Thank you for posting this Bobby. I'm glad you enjoyed it Ana. It's a delight to share something with friends who will enjoy things for what they are and whatever contributions they give and for whatever message in good faith they try to convey. Actually it's refreshing to see that that sort of receiving and thought sharing is still possible in and among the tribal gatherings on some of these lists where some of members of the tribe are always negating most freely given gifts, and trying to sound so much further advanced than the others. negative braves who only want war. good for them.....and all the best to them too....but good night! what the heck are they all about? As for me, I'll be carefree and free, careless and post, what the hell.......sometimes the replies are the best laugh I get all day.......it's not easy to hear such nonesense or selfserving pontifical statements out there in the real world on most days! Thank you for your thankyou and hope you continue to have a good one on the miracle of this fine day. ..........bobby Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > Eternal, > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > > simple as > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > bringing > > > with > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > this > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' > is.....it is > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples > did > > > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > > > beginning of duality. > > > > > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most > folks > > > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > > > > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its > inherent > > > Silence. > > > > > > Anna > > > > > > > > My dearest annie, that is not true on any level, if you'll excuse > my > > calusness toward your cherished romanticism. The great plains of > the > > western U.S., were once entirely forested, until our noble savages > > burned it down. > > > > We are, ourselves, noble savages. > > > > Nor have I ever met anyone who didn't love mother nature, > experienced > > it's mystical allure. As for Silence, it wins all popularity > > contests, hands down (or up). > > > > Elitism has infinite permutations. > > > > ordinarily love yer words > > (whatever yer distaste for mine) > > > > ~*~ > > > > My dear, there is no problem here. > > Yes, we are savages, noble and otherwise. Elitism is a refined > taste. I'm afraid. > > Tasting the whole picture, I remain, > Yours in Love, > and only in Love, > I shall remain. > > Time wears away everything else. > Or time burns everything in the fires of 'distaste', > ever smoldering, > ever ready to be burn with a vengeance. > > > > Anna > There is only love Cool and refreshing in summer Warm and nurturing in winter All else is merely the dis-ease of love's absence All else is merely the vengeance of love somehow forgotten There is no burning in love In love there are only the pure and refleshing waters of comfort and ease Elitism is merely the vengeance of the marginalized But love knows that one only marginalizes oneself in one's own lovelessness. free to one and all as love ~~~~~~***~~~~~~~~~~ " blue eagle " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > simple as > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > > beginning of duality. > > > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks > > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent > > Silence. > > > > Anna > > > > > My dearest annie, that is not true on any level, if you'll excuse my > calusness toward your cherished romanticism. The great plains of the > western U.S., were once entirely forested, until our noble savages > burned it down. > > We are, ourselves, noble savages. > > Nor have I ever met anyone who didn't love mother nature, experienced > it's mystical allure. As for Silence, it wins all popularity > contests, hands down (or up). > > Elitism has infinite permutations. > > ordinarily love yer words > (whatever yer distaste for mine) > > ~*~ Sky........I know you are the biggest fan of the toombaru fan club, but what is your point....of course we are all noble....no one was saying that the American natives (on the Plains or otherwise) wer MORE noble.....it was just a sharing of the spiritual outlook of others than ourselves....same as postings on the Indians like Niz and Ramana and others like the Sufis or christian Gnostics, saints and mystics. Wherein is the elitism in mentioning these or any other folks.......where is the denegration of 'us' to be found in that posting......what's the deal i guess is what I'm asking......you seem to just want to jump on toom's bandwagon here......he does have a nice beat doesn't he....are you dancing as well as singing to his tune? And as for the burning of the great forested area of the Plains........hmm? that wopuld be swell for growing wheat wouldn't it, That sure would have contributed to the creation of the world's breadbasket....oh those wicked wicked Redskins.....should have left Mother Nature alone....we could have become the world's bberry basket instead. And also Sky you fail to mention to what purpose they burned it down.......do you need a refresher course on that or would you like me to help you pout with the very practical reasons as to why the burning went down. If you'll excuse my calusness toward your cherished elitism, I don't find anything worth merit in your reply here to Ana's reply to the posting on the spirituality of the Native Americans, i just find a posting in order to post something and an attempt to score points with your leader toombaru. .........bob(for real) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > > as > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > from > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > necessity > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > ascended > > to > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > solitude, and there were no priests authorized to come between a > > man > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > > with > > > the religious experience of another. Among us all men were > created > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Our > > > faith might not be formulated in creeds, nor forced upon any who > > were > > > unwilling to receive it; hence there was no preaching, > > proselyting, > > > nor persecution, neither were there any scoffers or atheists. > > > > > > There were no temples or shrines among us save those of nature. > > Being > > > a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. He would deem > it > > > sacrilege to build a house for Him who may be met face to face in > > the > > > mysterious, shadowy aisles of the primeval forest, or on the > > sunlit > > > bosom of virgin prairies, upon dizzy spires and pinnacles of > naked > > > rock, and yonder in the jeweled vault of the night sky! He who > > > enrobes Himself in filmy veils of cloud, there on the rim of the > > > visible world where our Great-Grandfather Sun kindles his evening > > > camp-fire, He who rides upon the rigorous wind of the north, or > > > breathes forth His spirit upon aromatic southern airs, whose war- > > > canoe is launched upon majestic rivers and inland seas -- He > needs > > no > > > lesser cathedral! > > > > > > If you are somewhat familiar with sufi philosophy, you can > readily > > > see the Sufi ideas so deep in the native american philosophy. > > > > > > Sufis are ultimate mystics who see Beloved God as 'the Great > > Mystic' > > > and one saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him goes very > > well > > > here, " God says: Man is My secret and I'm his secret " . > > > > > > Being a natural man, the Indian was intensely poetical. And Sufis > > are > > > the most gifted poets in the world. Sufis love solitary and they > > > truly understand the value of solitude. As Rumi says, " Which is > > worth > > > more, a crowd of thousands, or your own genuine solitude? > Freedom, > > or > > > power over an entire nation? A little while alone in your room > > will > > > prove more valuable than anything else that could ever be given > > you. " > > > > > > Silent and solitary rememberance of God (zikr) is an essential > > > practice of the Sufis. They look into the Final Testament (The > > Quran) > > > as well for inspiration: Indeed Remembrance of God is the best > > > without doubt. The Quran: 029.045 > > > > > > Sufis also believe in direct communication with God. Infact they > > > believe it so much that they sees God as their Beloved, nearer > > than > > > anything else. Thus the need for priest, clergymen are eliminated > > to > > > communicate with the Divine. > > > > > > Sufis also don't seek the temple or any ritualistic places of > > worship > > > to sing the praise of God. For a Sufi- Heart is the most sacred > > space > > > in the entire cosmos, so much so that they believe that Heart is > > the > > > Throne of God. Thus they turn inside to the heart where the > > Beloved > > > God is ever present. > > > > > > This also shows that true spirituality doesn't depend on faith, > > > dogmas or language. It matters little what your faith is ... and > > to > > > make things clear, let me add 'The Sufi sees the truth in every > > > religion'. > > > > > > As one friend comments, all spiritual paths are streams flowing > > into > > > the same Ocean. How true it is! > > > > > > Source: " The Soul of the Indian " by: Charles Alexander Eastman > > (1911) > > > > > > > > > Thank you for posting this Bobby. > > > I'm glad you enjoyed it Ana. It's a delight to share something with > friends who will enjoy things for what they are and whatever > contributions they give and for whatever message in good faith they > try to convey. Actually it's refreshing to see that that sort of > receiving and thought sharing is still possible in and among the > tribal gatherings on some of these lists where some of members of the > tribe are always negating most freely given gifts, and trying to > sound so much further advanced than the others. negative braves who > only want war. good for them.....and all the best to them too....but > good night! what the heck are they all about? As for me, I'll be > carefree and free, careless and post, what the hell.......sometimes > the replies are the best laugh I get all day.......it's not easy to > hear such nonesense or selfserving pontifical statements out there in > the real world on most days! Thank you for your thankyou and hope you > continue to have a good one on the miracle of this fine day. > > ..........bobby > apropos, I had a huge guffaw with you and toomey, and windmills, and charging in and and and, i sure am silly sometimes when I come in naked...but in my younger days.... ;0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > Eternal, > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > > simple as > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > bringing > > > with > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > this > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it > is > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > > > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > > > beginning of duality. > > > > > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most > folks > > > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > > > > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its > inherent > > > Silence. > > > > > > Anna > > > > > > > > My dearest annie, that is not true on any level, if you'll excuse my > > calusness toward your cherished romanticism. The great plains of > the > > western U.S., were once entirely forested, until our noble savages > > burned it down. > > > > We are, ourselves, noble savages. > > > > Nor have I ever met anyone who didn't love mother nature, > experienced > > it's mystical allure. As for Silence, it wins all popularity > > contests, hands down (or up). > > > > Elitism has infinite permutations. > > > > ordinarily love yer words > > (whatever yer distaste for mine) > > > > ~*~ > Sky........I know you are the biggest fan of the toombaru fan club, > but what is your point....of course we are all noble....no one was > saying that the American natives (on the Plains or otherwise) wer > MORE noble.....it was just a sharing of the spiritual outlook of > others than ourselves....same as postings on the Indians like Niz and > Ramana and others like the Sufis or christian Gnostics, saints and > mystics. Wherein is the elitism in mentioning these or any other > folks.......where is the denegration of 'us' to be found in that > posting......what's the deal i guess is what I'm asking......you seem > to just want to jump on toom's bandwagon here......he does have a > nice beat doesn't he....are you dancing as well as singing to his > tune? And as for the burning of the great forested area of the > Plains........hmm? that wopuld be swell for growing wheat wouldn't > it, That sure would have contributed to the creation of the world's > breadbasket....oh those wicked wicked Redskins.....should have left > Mother Nature alone....we could have become the world's bberry basket > instead. And also Sky you fail to mention to what purpose they burned > it down.......do you need a refresher course on that or would you > like me to help you pout with the very practical reasons as to why > the burning went down. If you'll excuse my calusness toward your > cherished elitism, I don't find anything worth merit in your reply > here to Ana's reply to the posting on the spirituality of the Native > Americans, i just find a posting in order to post something and an > attempt to score points with your leader toombaru. > > > .........bob(for real) > Bob meister! I was responding to anna's words, " but the native peoples did not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental beginning of duality. " I'm saying that it's a matter of interpretation whether they or anyone is at odds with anything. You, on the other hand, seem to think of things as at odds. Do you? Maybe I'm actually not at odds, and maybe you, and toombaru, and Israel and Lebanon, too. Maybe the whole format of conflict is just a form of harmony in disguise. Maybe all there is is love pretending to be less, just for the love of returning to itself. As for elitism, I refer to it in an earlier post to ana, same subject. But coffee and rageaholism, what a dynamite combo (drum beat), no? Take it eeeeeeaseeeeeee, bobbeeeeeeeeee............ your old pal ~*~ (fir fun) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > simple as > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > with > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > beginning of duality. > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent > Silence. > > Anna > > > The 'primitive' mind is no more non-dual then the 'modern' mind. Mind in man is the same creature. Hommage can be paid only to an imaginary separateness. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > as > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > with > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > from > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > necessity > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > ascended to > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > seeking. > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > with > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > Among us all men were created > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > toombaru > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them > chum. > > > > ...............bob > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought > you'd like to know. > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the 'primitive spiritual mind'. The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern mind. It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and simple form. But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples everywhere would quickly dispell such romanticism. When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring tribe they tortured them unmercifully. The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. Mind is mind. It likes to think that is better then it is. Religion and spirituality......are no different. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > > as > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > from > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > necessity > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > ascended to > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > > with > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them > > chum. > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought > > you'd like to know. > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern > mind. > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > simple form. > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples everywhere > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring tribe > they tortured them unmercifully. > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > Mind is mind. > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > toombaru ....don't forget the mind-tortured ones.... they Love to torture the mind of " others " ..... and then explain....that they torture only themself lol Marc Ps: sometimes.....it happen....that few fabuloes dream-bubbles crashes......into another fantastic dream-bubble..... for a while...... of little happiness... 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Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > > as > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > from > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > necessity > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > ascended to > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > > with > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them > > chum. > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought > > you'd like to know. > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern > mind. > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > simple form. > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples everywhere > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring tribe > they tortured them unmercifully. > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > Mind is mind. > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > They are nothing other then the solcitation of an imaginary Other in a desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. > toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > > as > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > with > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > from > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > necessity > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > ascended to > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > > with > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them > > chum. > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought > > you'd like to know. > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern > mind. > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > simple form. > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples everywhere > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > .. > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > Mind is mind. > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > toombaru first regarding the last.....WRONG. Period. religion is 'about' people or things or ideas....Spirituality is Identity....no one obtaining in any person, place, thing, idea within spirituality. All is one and that One is before, beyond and besides any definition, experience, study, ritual, conception, seperation, difference, quantifying delineation....It cannot be spoken of but only Realized as none other than the Fact that is...without second. Most definitely, spirituality is NOT religion by any way conceivable or non-conceivable.If any one says that, it's because it just sounds like some cool thing to say, but it is meaningless. second.... regarding Hawaiin rivers of blood.......All Nations rivers ran red with blood....this is totally non sequiter to the discussion. third.... " When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring tribe they tortured them unmercifully " ......exactly like what's currently going on withenemy combatants and percieved terrorists in the Middle East and in secret detention centers in Europe and Indonesia, in Cuba.....you name it...same same same....only now we are even better at it and add psychological torture along with chemical torture to the mix......we've come a long way baby. fourth.... " My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the 'primitive spiritual mind'. The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern mind. It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and simple form. " .......who said it was? what do you ever even mean by 'primitive'? why do you read things into every post that is posted but your own? I'm not paying hommage, I'm posting a report of a man done in 1911......what makes you think or feel anyone should pay hommage to whatever you have to say regarding anything? I don't think, feel, believe anything or anyone is seperate.....I've stated as much many times.....why do you have to reach so hard to try and justify your statements? why even make the statements if they have no relevance to what you are supposedly responding to? what gives???????? fifth....... " Mind is mind. It likes to think that is better then it is. " .........I kinda think that's EXACTLY the way the American aboriginal spirituality would put it.....I kinda think anyone who's at all interested in nondual thought and practice and experience and lists would say and believe the same thing, and not feel so constrained as to post the obvious in justification of some denegrating post regarding a posting of a mere reportage of a man on certain people and their take on things.......all long gone. a little research into what is in fact being said and posted, instead of so much reading into things thereof, for perceived thoughts that can be blithely castagated, would quickly dispell such romantic ideas and attempts about trying to sound so far above the thoughts that are really being transmitted, and not what one can be coy about. That's what is truly childlike glamorization of self. ..........bob NB: cc to self Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as simple > > > as > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > > > with > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to enjoy > > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to be > > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and on > > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > > from > > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > > necessity > > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > > ascended to > > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made up. > > > > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up and > > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen the > > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the make- > > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is mind? > > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this making > > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that you > > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk away > > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy one- > > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism and > > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere denial.......as > > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties don't > > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in > > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle > > > with > > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It would > > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can see > > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise than > > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't > > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome is > > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, all > > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the boys > > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away from.....they > > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or churches........did > > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to sound > > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole thing > > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the living > > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need some > > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all the > > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions of > > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with them > > > chum. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes it....thought > > > you'd like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused modern > > mind. > > > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > > simple form. > > > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples everywhere > > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > > > When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring tribe > > they tortured them unmercifully. > > > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > > > > They are nothing other then the solcitation of an imaginary Other in a > desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. > > toombaru Nope..... However your post here is exactly and only that " desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. " .........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the Eternal, > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > simple as > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, bringing > with > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in this > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it is > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > That may be true on one level, Toomie, but the native peoples did > not live at odds with their environment, the most elementental > beginning of duality. > > I/we live my/our life(s) here in this space called earth. Most folks > never consider it, let alone pay hommage. > > And most of us never experience the joy of nature, or its inherent > Silence. > > Anna The most elemental beginning of duality is when you first believed you had encountered something outside of yourself. When you experienced (nonverbally) a situation in which there could be a threat to someone and someone to be threatened. This is formed from and as the basic nonverbal survival program -- which " later on " leads to words being believed. When you believed a word must signify something existing, there was duality. When you " later " came to believe there were those who lived in harmony with the earth, and those who didn't, there was an additional duality. And if you came to believe there is duality, and then there is nonduality -- that belief certainly constitutes a duality. So, to resolve dualities is not to find a nonduality that is outside of duality. It is to re-cognize the nondual in and as the dualities. And it is to " undermine " the basis for taking the survival program as a bedrock establishment of what reality is -- on a nonverbal basis. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > > > > They are nothing other then the solcitation of an imaginary Other in a > desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. > > toombaru Yes. And the survival program has its place in the scheme of things. But when it is used to try to anchor an existing being, all kinds of mistaken notions arise with that effort. To give it up, requires relinquishing the " precious me " that we have designed religion and spirituality to teach, to help progress. If you give up the " me-anchor " -- you give up everything that goes along with it, to help it, enhance it, enshrine it. Including not just religion and spiritual enhancements, but nations, political agendas, fame, materialist agendas, even the idea of " being a better self because I gave everything up " -- the whole ball of wax. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > Eternal, > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > simple > > > as > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > bringing > > > with > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > this > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it > is > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to > enjoy > > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to > be > > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and > on > > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > > from > > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > > necessity > > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > > ascended to > > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made > up. > > > > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up > and > > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen > the > > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the > make- > > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is > mind? > > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this > making > > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that > you > > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk > away > > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy > one- > > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism > and > > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere > denial.......as > > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties > don't > > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to > us in > > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way > meddle > > > with > > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It > would > > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can > see > > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise > than > > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it > doesn't > > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome > is > > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, > all > > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the > boys > > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away > from.....they > > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or > churches........did > > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to > sound > > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole > thing > > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the > living > > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need > some > > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all > the > > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions > of > > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with > them > > > chum. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes > it....thought > > > you'd like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused > modern > > mind. > > > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > > simple form. > > > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples > everywhere > > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > > > > > . > > > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > first regarding the last.....WRONG. Period. religion is 'about' > people or things or ideas....Spirituality is Identity....no one > obtaining in any person, place, thing, idea within spirituality. All > is one and that One is before, beyond and besides any definition, > experience, study, ritual, conception, seperation, difference, > quantifying delineation....It cannot be spoken of but only Realized > as none other than the Fact that is...without second. Most > definitely, spirituality is NOT religion by any way conceivable or > non-conceivable.If any one says that, it's because it just sounds > like some cool thing to say, but it is meaningless. > > second.... regarding Hawaiin rivers of blood.......All Nations rivers > ran red with blood....this is totally non sequiter to the discussion. > > third.... " When the American indians captured a member from a > neighboring tribe they tortured them unmercifully " ......exactly like > what's currently going on withenemy combatants and percieved > terrorists in the Middle East and in secret detention centers in > Europe and Indonesia, in Cuba.....you name it...same same > same....only now we are even better at it and add psychological > torture along with chemical torture to the mix......we've come a long > way baby. > > fourth.... " My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of > the 'primitive spiritual mind'. The idea of the " noble savage' has > great appeal to the confused modern mind. It likes to believe that > at one time it existed in a more pure and simple form. " .......who > said it was? what do you ever even mean by 'primitive'? why do you > read things into every post that is posted but your own? I'm not > paying hommage, I'm posting a report of a man done in 1911......what > makes you think or feel anyone should pay hommage to whatever you > have to say regarding anything? I don't think, feel, believe anything > or anyone is seperate.....I've stated as much many times.....why do > you have to reach so hard to try and justify your statements? why > even make the statements if they have no relevance to what you are > supposedly responding to? what gives???????? > > fifth....... " Mind is mind. It likes to think that is better then it > is. " .........I kinda think that's EXACTLY the way the American > aboriginal spirituality would put it.....I kinda think anyone who's > at all interested in nondual thought and practice and experience and > lists would say and believe the same thing, and not feel so > constrained as to post the obvious in justification of some > denegrating post regarding a posting of a mere reportage of a man on > certain people and their take on things.......all long gone. > > a little research into what is in fact being said and posted, instead > of so much reading into things thereof, for perceived thoughts that > can be blithely castagated, would quickly dispell such romantic ideas > and attempts about trying to sound so far above the thoughts that are > really being transmitted, and not what one can be coy about. That's > what is truly childlike glamorization of self. > > > ..........bob > > NB: cc to self > When one posts the words of another.....there is an assumption of agreement. Agreement with delusion begs for correction. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > Eternal, > > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > simple > > > > as > > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > bringing > > > > with > > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > this > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' > is.....it is > > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to > enjoy > > > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need > to be > > > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old > me > > > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here > and on > > > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, > free > > > > from > > > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > > > necessity > > > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > > > ascended to > > > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is > self > > > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind > made up. > > > > > > > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, > that > > > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state > the > > > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making > up and > > > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, > you > > > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen > the > > > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much > the make- > > > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is > mind? > > > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this > making > > > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that > you > > > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk > away > > > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some > spiffy one- > > > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love > solipsism and > > > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere > denial.......as > > > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties > don't > > > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to > us in > > > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at > trying > > > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way > meddle > > > > with > > > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is > it > > > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It > would > > > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you > can see > > > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise > than > > > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it > doesn't > > > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so > handsome is > > > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the > Christ, all > > > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the > boys > > > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away > from.....they > > > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or > churches........did > > > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to > sound > > > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole > thing > > > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all > your > > > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing > trip....i > > > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the > living > > > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need > some > > > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all > the > > > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your > delusions of > > > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with > them > > > > chum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem > with > > > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes > it....thought > > > > you'd like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > > > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > > > > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused > modern > > > mind. > > > > > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > > > simple form. > > > > > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples > everywhere > > > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > > > > > When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring > tribe > > > they tortured them unmercifully. > > > > > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are nothing other then the solcitation of an imaginary Other > in a > > desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Nope..... However your post here is exactly and only that " desperate > attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. " > > > .........bob > Kinda like Nisargadatta? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > > Eternal, > > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > simple > > > > as > > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > > bringing > > > > with > > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > > this > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' is.....it > > is > > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to > > enjoy > > > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need to > > be > > > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old me > > > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here and > > on > > > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, free > > > > from > > > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > > > necessity > > > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > > > ascended to > > > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is self > > > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind made > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, that > > > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state the > > > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making up > > and > > > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, you > > > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen > > the > > > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much the > > make- > > > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is > > mind? > > > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this > > making > > > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that > > you > > > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk > > away > > > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some spiffy > > one- > > > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love solipsism > > and > > > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere > > denial.......as > > > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties > > don't > > > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to > > us in > > > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at trying > > > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way > > meddle > > > > with > > > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is it > > > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It > > would > > > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you can > > see > > > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise > > than > > > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it > > doesn't > > > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so handsome > > is > > > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the Christ, > > all > > > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the > > boys > > > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away > > from.....they > > > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or > > churches........did > > > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to > > sound > > > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole > > thing > > > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all your > > > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing trip....i > > > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the > > living > > > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need > > some > > > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all > > the > > > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your delusions > > of > > > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with > > them > > > > chum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem with > > > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes > > it....thought > > > > you'd like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > > > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > > > > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused > > modern > > > mind. > > > > > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > > > simple form. > > > > > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples > > everywhere > > > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > first regarding the last.....WRONG. Period. religion is 'about' > > people or things or ideas....Spirituality is Identity....no one > > obtaining in any person, place, thing, idea within spirituality. All > > is one and that One is before, beyond and besides any definition, > > experience, study, ritual, conception, seperation, difference, > > quantifying delineation....It cannot be spoken of but only Realized > > as none other than the Fact that is...without second. Most > > definitely, spirituality is NOT religion by any way conceivable or > > non-conceivable.If any one says that, it's because it just sounds > > like some cool thing to say, but it is meaningless. > > > > second.... regarding Hawaiin rivers of blood.......All Nations rivers > > ran red with blood....this is totally non sequiter to the discussion. > > > > third.... " When the American indians captured a member from a > > neighboring tribe they tortured them unmercifully " ......exactly like > > what's currently going on withenemy combatants and percieved > > terrorists in the Middle East and in secret detention centers in > > Europe and Indonesia, in Cuba.....you name it...same same > > same....only now we are even better at it and add psychological > > torture along with chemical torture to the mix......we've come a long > > way baby. > > > > fourth.... " My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of > > the 'primitive spiritual mind'. The idea of the " noble savage' has > > great appeal to the confused modern mind. It likes to believe that > > at one time it existed in a more pure and simple form. " .......who > > said it was? what do you ever even mean by 'primitive'? why do you > > read things into every post that is posted but your own? I'm not > > paying hommage, I'm posting a report of a man done in 1911......what > > makes you think or feel anyone should pay hommage to whatever you > > have to say regarding anything? I don't think, feel, believe anything > > or anyone is seperate.....I've stated as much many times.....why do > > you have to reach so hard to try and justify your statements? why > > even make the statements if they have no relevance to what you are > > supposedly responding to? what gives???????? > > > > fifth....... " Mind is mind. It likes to think that is better then it > > is. " .........I kinda think that's EXACTLY the way the American > > aboriginal spirituality would put it.....I kinda think anyone who's > > at all interested in nondual thought and practice and experience and > > lists would say and believe the same thing, and not feel so > > constrained as to post the obvious in justification of some > > denegrating post regarding a posting of a mere reportage of a man on > > certain people and their take on things.......all long gone. > > > > a little research into what is in fact being said and posted, instead > > of so much reading into things thereof, for perceived thoughts that > > can be blithely castagated, would quickly dispell such romantic ideas > > and attempts about trying to sound so far above the thoughts that are > > really being transmitted, and not what one can be coy about. That's > > what is truly childlike glamorization of self. > > > > > > ..........bob > > > > NB: cc to self > > > > > > When one posts the words of another.....there is an assumption of > agreement. > > Agreement with delusion begs for correction. > > > toombaru LOL.....'begs'?.......I don't, I didn't, I wouldn't, I will not, EVER beg for anything.....particularily correction or forgivness.....how Catholic you are getting to be. And just a quickie on this humdinger.....who elected you to be the corrector of anything.......try a little humility and also try to get real. Nobody is need of correction from you or any other quarter....are you saying something is WRONG? whenever 'wrong' is around, then there gotta be something 'right'.....I guess your assuming that that something 'right' is your opinion.......sorry guy.... that dog don't hunt......you better get a better grip on things man.You say there are no things, no people, no nothing, but then you turn right around and are going to correct something called agreement with delusion......methinks toomey that YOU are going delusional. Have a scone like a nice lad and come up with something better than this or teacher may have to sit you on that high chair in front of the classroom wearing that funny cone hat again. .........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE original attitude of the American Indian toward the > > Eternal, > > > > > > > the " Great Mystery " that surrounds and embraces us, was as > > simple > > > > > as > > > > > > > it was exalted. To him it was the supreme conception, > > bringing > > > > > with > > > > > > > it the fullest measure of joy and satisfaction possible in > > this > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No matter how refined the perception of the 'Supreme' > > is.....it is > > > > > > merly more of the same ole me and God duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed........same with all the pontifications that you seem to > > enjoy > > > > > spouting....in fact toombaru, from seeing your incessant need > > to be > > > > > a 'topper', I would say 'you' seem to be the most noticable old > > me > > > > > (toombaru) and other(god or other) dualist in the bunch here > > and on > > > > > most of the 'spiritual' lists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worship of the " Great Mystery " was silent, solitary, > > free > > > > > from > > > > > > > all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of > > > > > necessity > > > > > > > feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors > > > > > ascended to > > > > > > > God in wordless adoration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Worship of the 'Great Mystery'....even silent worship...is > > self > > > > > seeking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wordless adoration is adoration of something that the mind > > made up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again agreed. re Part one......who the hell would disagree, > > that > > > > > seems to be the main point of the endeavor...no need to state > > the > > > > > obvious guy. Re part 2.......this is something you are making > > up and > > > > > is simply WRONG. no matter how hard you try to pretend fella, > > you > > > > > adore sounding like some sort of above it all who can enlighen > > the > > > > > lesser beings with his gifts of wisdom. That's about as much > > the make- > > > > > up of 'adoration' as anything is. Please inform now: What is > > mind? > > > > > what is 'making up' opposed to? how does the 'mind' 'do' this > > making > > > > > up thing? what is not 'of the mind'? what's the REAL deal that > > you > > > > > are trying to talk about but fail so miserably at with these > > > > > superficial nonsense sound and word-bytes. and don't just walk > > away > > > > > from these questions as is your wont, or come up with some > > spiffy one- > > > > > liner to try and further impress. ANSWER them. You love > > solipsism and > > > > > tautology as I have stated time and again......that really says > > > > > nothing at all and is refuted just as easily by mere > > denial.......as > > > > > valid, as honest, as enlightened sounding, and as useless as > > > > > your 'pop' posts......you really are a child of Esalen aren't > > > > > you.......the seventies are over sport. these little ditties > > don't > > > > > impress anyone anymore......they merely date you my dear friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to > > us in > > > > > > > solitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Nearer to us " is the clever trick of cutting the distance in > > > > > > half....without putting the self in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I suppose this snippet is NOT a clever little trick at > > trying > > > > > to 'cut to the quick'? give us a break! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there were no priests authorized to come between a man > > > > > > > and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way > > meddle > > > > > with > > > > > > > the religious experience of another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That keeps the delusional fantasy intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are fantasising here......are you feeling delusional or is > > it > > > > > happening without your 'mind' being cognizant of that fact? It > > would > > > > > likely keep 'you' intact, if that is the case....if not, you > > can see > > > > > how what you say really falls apart under intelligent > > > > > examination.Give it a try rather than trying to just negate > > > > > everything in order to come off as more knowl;edgable or wise > > than > > > > > anyone else.....again, it reall doesn't impress anyone, it > > doesn't > > > > > work, and God toombaru.....it's getting so OLD and BORING. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among us all men were created > > > > > > > sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conscious but separate....and of slightly less stature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ho Ho Ho!........you looking in the mirror again? not so > > handsome is > > > > > it handsome.....hehehehe.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Religion is religion is religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > absolutely......but religion is what Lao tse, Buddha, the > > Christ, all > > > > > zemasters and students, Advaitans, nondualists, Nisargadatta, > > > > > Ramana..........and a whole mess of others (may I include the > > boys > > > > > herein considered, the American Natives), walked away > > from.....they > > > > > didn't attend 'religious' schools or temples or > > churches........did > > > > > you somehow miss this in the above or are you just trying to > > sound > > > > > cool again? Spirituality is NOT religion......and if the whole > > thing > > > > > is so far below you, why on earth or heaven do you spend all > > your > > > > > time on these 'spiritual' lists talking your nonsense......is > > > > > something missing in your life. May I suggest a fishing > > trip....i > > > > > love to fish and it adds some real gusto and reality to the > > living > > > > > time of the nobodies we all are and know we are and don't need > > some > > > > > Priest of the Nondual Truth church preaching in sound bytes all > > the > > > > > time about......try a real life and see if some of your > > delusions of > > > > > granduer can be shed......you are becoming rather crusty with > > them > > > > > chum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. I've copied this onto notepad so if has a problem > > with > > > > > database again, I can just keep posting till it makes > > it....thought > > > > > you'd like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My response was pointed at the childlike glamorization of the > > > > 'primitive spiritual mind'. > > > > > > > > The idea of the " noble savage' has great appeal to the confused > > modern > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > It likes to believe that at one time it existed in a more pure and > > > > simple form. > > > > > > > > But a little research in to the behavior if native peoples > > everywhere > > > > would quickly dispell such romanticism. > > > > > > > > When the American indians captured a member from a neighboring > > tribe > > > > they tortured them unmercifully. > > > > > > > > The rivers of Hawaii ran red with blood for eons. > > > > > > > > Mind is mind. > > > > > > > > It likes to think that is better then it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Religion and spirituality......are no different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are nothing other then the solcitation of an imaginary Other > > in a > > > desperate attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Nope..... However your post here is exactly and only that " desperate > > attempt to secure the survival of the imaginary self. " > > > > > > .........bob > > > > > > > Kinda like Nisargadatta? > > > toombaru so now your equating yourself and feel you are right up there with Niz and Gautama and Lao tse and Jesus and the whole gang eh?.........you know I also know that no enlightenment is greater than mine as well as you do(who else IS there?)....but when you start comparing the personal man toom, with those cats.......I gotta say your gone daddyo. :-)) .........bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 25, 2006 > > LOL.....'begs'?.......I don't, I didn't, I wouldn't, I will not, EVER > beg for anything.....particularily correction or forgivness.....how > Catholic you are getting to be. And just a quickie on this > humdinger.....who elected you to be the corrector of > anything.......try a little humility and also try to get real. Nobody > is need of correction from you or any other quarter....are you saying > something is WRONG? whenever 'wrong' is around, then there gotta be > something 'right'.....I guess your assuming that that > something 'right' is your opinion.......sorry guy.... that dog don't > hunt......you better get a better grip on things man.You say there > are no things, no people, no nothing, but then you turn right around > and are going to correct something called agreement with > delusion......methinks toomey that YOU are going delusional. Have a > scone like a nice lad and come up with something better than this or > teacher may have to sit you on that high chair in front of the > classroom wearing that funny cone hat again. > > .........bob > The belief that some have a better handle on 'spirituality' then others is delusional. Oh I know....You have a lot of ideas what religion and spirituality are all about.......but they are all made up Bob. There really is no such thing....and no one to whom they could pertain. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
