Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > there is only one...real Self...yes > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > ...iietsa all disputes of points of view or words are transitory phenomena and can't give something other than what they are. this includes transitory phenomena arising as words about things like Self or God, or conversely, words about things like no-self or no-Self or no God. all those words dissolve. the idea that there was something outside of themselves that they were pointing at or to, also dissolves. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > said? > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > that > > > can be > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > itself. > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > ...iietsa > > > > " plop! " > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > -- Dan > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > ...iietsa > Yeah, Only darkness is constant... light appears and light disappears... only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and intelligence disappears... Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > ...iietsa > > all disputes of points of view or words are transitory phenomena and > can't give something other than what they are. > > this includes transitory phenomena arising as words about things like > Self or God, or conversely, words about things like no-self or no- Self > or no God. > > all those words dissolve. > > the idea that there was something outside of themselves that they were > pointing at or to, also dissolves. > > -- Dan > I dont have any disputes...and I have no point of view... if this how you see it...then maybe its your seeing that is a point of view... and yes...words are mere words... so why cling to them...why fight with them...why react to them... why make words into reality...they are not see them for what they are...and they can do nothing... take them to be what they are not...and your on the road to hell... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > > said? > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > that > > > > can be > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > ...iietsa > > > > Yeah, > > Only darkness is constant... light appears and light disappears... > > only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... > > only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and intelligence > disappears... > > Werner > well...I guess you could say so... or maybe its just fishing for reactions...I dont know... stupidity runs the race to hell...and the winner is the loser... intelligenge is constant...stupidity is being born and dies away... some stupidity lasts longer...but there is no such thing as constant stupidity...or ? ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > said? > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > that > > > can be > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > itself. > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > ...iietsa > > > > " plop! " > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > -- Dan > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > ...iietsa constancy only has meaning in relation to the transitory. nothing has its own existence and quality to itself, including constancy, including silence. only as sound appears and disappears, do you notice and define silence, in contrast. only as transitory phenomena are observed, do you notice and define " constancy, " in relation. in this sense, sound is the silence, the transitory is the constancy. -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " " Self " > is > > not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with > > anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with > Unameit...and > > is in bondage > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > yes... > > > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind- > prison) > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are > the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big S..............little s........... > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no self. > > > > > > > > > > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Stock in the 'contra-loop' again Toombaru ? > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > the real Self please stand up, > > please stand up... > > > > if Self is the only real Self, then what's the little self, the > > children of lesser gods? I'd like to cap the little i sometimes, > > especially at the beginning of a sentence. Then the little i > imagines > > himself as the big I in the sky. > > > > if you know your own way...follow it > > if you dont know your own way... > stop following anything and everything... > > those two sayings says exaktly the same thing... > but in different ways > ...iietsa > so ieetsa, tell us when you were enlitened? my guess is 3 months ago? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 > > > > > > > > Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > - " Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. " > > > > ..........I sometimes wonder what space you live in. > > Whatever it is I don't envy it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is because you believe that you have a self to protect. > > > toombaru You said it. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can > be > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > > that > > > > > can be > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > Yeah, > > > > Only darkness is constant... light appears and light disappears... > > > > only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... > > > > only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and intelligence > > disappears... > > > > Werner > > > well...I guess you could say so... > or maybe its just fishing for reactions...I dont know... > > stupidity runs the race to hell...and the winner is the loser... > intelligenge is constant...stupidity is being born and dies away... > some stupidity lasts longer...but there is no such thing as > constant stupidity...or ? > ...iietsa Actually, he was making an excellent point, and being funny at the same time. It's not by getting rid of anything transitory, that you find something constant to depend on. Trying to find something constant to depend on, isn't intelligence. -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > I dont have any disputes...and I have no point of view... > if this how you see it...then maybe its your seeing that is a point > of view... > and yes...words are mere words... > so why cling to them...why fight with them...why react to them... > why make words into reality...they are not > see them for what they are...and they can do nothing... > take them to be what they are not...and your on the road to hell... > ...iietsa sure you have a point of view. it includes ideas about a road to hell people are on because they take words the wrong way, and ideas about their clinging, fighting, and reacting -- which you don't think you do, but do think you can point out to them. to be blind to one's having a point of view disqualifies one from being able to preach to others about their points of view, in my humble opinion. first, be fully aware of your own, and upon what the assumptions it is based. " be aware of the beam in your own eye, before you set about to take the splinter out of your neighbor's eye. " -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > ...iietsa > > all disputes of points of view or words are transitory phenomena and > can't give something other than what they are. > > this includes transitory phenomena arising as words about things like > Self or God, or conversely, words about things like no-self or no-Self > or no God. > > all those words dissolve. > > the idea that there was something outside of themselves that they were > pointing at or to, also dissolves. > > -- Dan > Beautiful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > > said? > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > that > > > > can be > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > ...iietsa > > constancy only has meaning in relation to the transitory. > > nothing has its own existence and quality to itself, including > constancy, including silence. > > only as sound appears and disappears, do you notice and define > silence, in contrast. only as transitory phenomena are observed, do > you notice and define " constancy, " in relation. > > in this sense, sound is the silence, the transitory is the constancy. > > > -- D. > being is its own existence and its own quality and is constant... it doesnt die and it isnt born... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hurg wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the > one > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the > word " self " " Self " > > is > > > not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with > > > anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with > > Unameit...and > > > is in bondage > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > yes... > > > > > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind- > > prison) > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are > > the > > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big S..............little s........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stock in the 'contra-loop' again Toombaru ? > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > the real Self please stand up, > > > please stand up... > > > > > > if Self is the only real Self, then what's the little self, the > > > children of lesser gods? I'd like to cap the little i sometimes, > > > especially at the beginning of a sentence. Then the little i > > imagines > > > himself as the big I in the sky. > > > > > > > if you know your own way...follow it > > > > if you dont know your own way... > > stop following anything and everything... > > > > those two sayings says exaktly the same thing... > > but in different ways > > ...iietsa > > > > so ieetsa, tell us when you were enlitened? > my guess is 3 months ago? > the " you " that you take me for...is not who I am... as long as you take yourself to be the " mind-me " ...all you see is other mind-me:s... when you no longer identify with the mind...you dont see others... ....but to stimulate the question...the mind-me died out of power a couple of years ago...and when it did...I realized that this mind-me that I had identified with for many years only was thought...nothing more... I dont take mySelf to be a thought...thats all thoughts are there like clouds in the sky...thats ok I am not interested in clouds...so I dont offer them a handle... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can > > be > > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > > > that > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, > > > > > > Only darkness is constant... light appears and light disappears... > > > > > > only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... > > > > > > only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and intelligence > > > disappears... > > > > > > Werner > > > > > well...I guess you could say so... > > or maybe its just fishing for reactions...I dont know... > > > > stupidity runs the race to hell...and the winner is the loser... > > intelligenge is constant...stupidity is being born and dies away... > > some stupidity lasts longer...but there is no such thing as > > constant stupidity...or ? > > ...iietsa > > Actually, he was making an excellent point, and being funny at the > same time. > > It's not by getting rid of anything transitory, that you find > something constant to depend on. > > Trying to find something constant to depend on, isn't intelligence. > > -- D. who said " try to find something to depend on...is intelligence " ? ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the > > one > > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the > > word " self " " Self " > > > is > > > > not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with > > > > anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with > > > Unameit...and > > > > is in bondage > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > yes... > > > > > > > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > > > > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind- > > > prison) > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > > > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > > > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they > are > > > the > > > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big S..............little s........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stock in the 'contra-loop' again Toombaru ? > > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > > > the real Self please stand up, > > > > please stand up... > > > > > > > > if Self is the only real Self, then what's the little self, > the > > > > children of lesser gods? I'd like to cap the little i > sometimes, > > > > especially at the beginning of a sentence. Then the little i > > > imagines > > > > himself as the big I in the sky. > > > > > > > > > > if you know your own way...follow it > > > > > > if you dont know your own way... > > > stop following anything and everything... > > > > > > those two sayings says exaktly the same thing... > > > but in different ways > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > so ieetsa, tell us when you were enlitened? > > my guess is 3 months ago? > > > the " you " that you take me for...is not who I am... > as long as you take yourself to be the " mind-me " ...all you see is > other mind-me:s... > when you no longer identify with the mind...you dont see others... > ...but to stimulate the question...the mind-me died out of power a > couple of years ago...and when it did...I realized that this mind- me > that I had identified with for many years only was thought...nothing > more... > I dont take mySelf to be a thought...thats all > thoughts are there like clouds in the sky...thats ok > I am not interested in clouds...so I dont offer them a handle... > ...iietsa > ....see like clouds in the sky, the truth disappears through our grasping fingers... ....that love is all ... what remains between the body of flesh and the emptiness of Soul, ..............This..............essential timeless Spirit.............. YIL, Ana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > I dont have any disputes...and I have no point of view... > > if this how you see it...then maybe its your seeing that is a point > > of view... > > and yes...words are mere words... > > so why cling to them...why fight with them...why react to them... > > why make words into reality...they are not > > see them for what they are...and they can do nothing... > > take them to be what they are not...and your on the road to hell... > > ...iietsa > > sure you have a point of view. NO...I clearly see point of views but I dont identify with them..ok > it includes ideas about a road to hell people are on because they take > words the wrong way, and ideas about their clinging, fighting, and > reacting -- which you don't think you do, but do think you can point > out to them. if one identifies with a point of view...this denies who I am... and who I am is the only important (thing) that is....point of views are nonsence....they are not real...only false... > to be blind to one's having a point of view disqualifies one from > being able to preach to others about their points of view, in my > humble opinion. you gladly quotes jesus down below so WHY JUDGE AND WHY TROW STONES... > first, be fully aware of your own, and upon what the assumptions it is > based. > > " be aware of the beam in your own eye, before you set about to take > the splinter out of your neighbor's eye. " > > -- D. all point of views are welccmed in love....no need to judge... they are only thoughts...I am the one that sees them... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > > <iietsa@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find > bliss... > > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being > bliss > > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to > others... > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph > is > > > true? > > > > > that > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you > evaluate > > > that? > > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > > > what > > > > > you > > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > > mecanism > > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > > anybody > > > to > > > > > help > > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all > so > > > > called > > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > > buisness... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying > above > > > is > > > > > true & > > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > > is " other " & > > > > > what > > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is > there > > > even a > > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the > problem? ;- > > ) > > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is > taken > > to > > > be > > > > > real... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the > mountains > > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > > lake.... > > > > mountain.... > > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > > > " Self " is not identified with " self " > > > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > > > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > > > ...iietsa > > > > yes... > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) > > > > Marc > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > ...iietsa yes.... it is not the names.... it is not the forms.... it is not the concepts.... it is not the mind-prison.... it is not the dream-bubble(s).... it is not of words..... it is of no worlds.... it is not of any importance for the dream-bubbles.... it is not of birth and death... it is not of little friendships and relationships.... it is not of few drops....who imagine to be ocean.... it is not of beginning and end... it is not of " God " (s).... it is not of intellect.... it is not of love only.... therefore..... there is no reason to " fight " for anything in here..... no reason to exchange endless mind-bubbles..... no reason to teach anything to anybody.... no reason to prove the existence of more or less mind-prison (ego- mind)... no reason to show the ignorance....to a world filled up with the ignorance of oneself.... therefore.... let's empty the mind..... and be free Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 <dennis_travis33 wrote: " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > ...iietsa > > yes.... > > it is not the names.... > it is not the forms.... > it is not the concepts.... > it is not the mind-prison.... > it is not the dream-bubble(s).... > it is not of words..... > it is of no worlds.... > it is not of any importance for the dream-bubbles.... > it is not of birth and death... > it is not of little friendships and relationships.... > it is not of few drops....who imagine to be ocean.... > it is not of beginning and end... > it is not of " God " (s).... > it is not of intellect.... > it is not of love only.... > > therefore..... > > there is no reason to " fight " for anything in here..... > no reason to exchange endless mind-bubbles..... > no reason to teach anything to anybody.... > no reason to prove the existence of more or less mind-prison (ego- > mind)... > no reason to show the ignorance....to a world filled up with the > ignorance of oneself.... --And it is all of the above. > therefore.... > > let's empty the mind..... > > and be free > > Marc Era Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > > ...iietsa > > > > yes.... > > > > it is not the names.... > > it is not the forms.... > > it is not the concepts.... > > it is not the mind-prison.... > > it is not the dream-bubble(s).... > > it is not of words..... > > it is of no worlds.... > > it is not of any importance for the dream-bubbles.... > > it is not of birth and death... > > it is not of little friendships and relationships.... > > it is not of few drops....who imagine to be ocean.... > > it is not of beginning and end... > > it is not of " God " (s).... > > it is not of intellect.... > > it is not of love only.... > > > > therefore..... > > > > there is no reason to " fight " for anything in here..... > > no reason to exchange endless mind-bubbles..... > > no reason to teach anything to anybody.... > > no reason to prove the existence of more or less mind-prison (ego- > > mind)... > > no reason to show the ignorance....to a world filled up with the > > ignorance of oneself.... > > > > > --And it is all of the above. yes.... it is all of the above.... > > > > > > therefore.... > > > > let's empty the mind..... > > > > and be free > > > > Marc > > Era > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can > be > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > > that > > > > > can be > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > > ...iietsa > > > > constancy only has meaning in relation to the transitory. > > > > nothing has its own existence and quality to itself, including > > constancy, including silence. > > > > only as sound appears and disappears, do you notice and define > > silence, in contrast. only as transitory phenomena are observed, > do > > you notice and define " constancy, " in relation. > > > > in this sense, sound is the silence, the transitory is the > constancy. > > > > > > -- D. > > > being is its own existence and its own quality and is constant... > it doesnt die and it isnt born... > ...iietsa Ietsa - What doesn't die and isn't born, can't be a " what " and doesn't have any quality associated. Qualities have beginnings and ends, including qualities like " constancy, " " being, " and " existence. " -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > <dan330033@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that > can > > > be > > > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is > nothing > > > > > that > > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to > bite > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds > disappear... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, > > > > > > > > Only darkness is constant... light appears and light > disappears... > > > > > > > > only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... > > > > > > > > only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and > intelligence > > > > disappears... > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > well...I guess you could say so... > > > or maybe its just fishing for reactions...I dont know... > > > > > > stupidity runs the race to hell...and the winner is the loser... > > > intelligenge is constant...stupidity is being born and dies > away... > > > some stupidity lasts longer...but there is no such thing as > > > constant stupidity...or ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > Actually, he was making an excellent point, and being funny at the > > same time. > > > > It's not by getting rid of anything transitory, that you find > > something constant to depend on. > > > > Trying to find something constant to depend on, isn't intelligence. > > > > -- D. > who said " try to find something to depend on...is intelligence " ? > ...iietsa D: Okay. Thus is released any bias in favor of constancy over transitoriness. And vice versa. If there is no intent to depend or have, then no construct or concept deserves any special emphasis, including concepts like " being " " truth " " awareness " and related ideas. No? -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > > > <iietsa@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find > > bliss... > > > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being > > bliss > > > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to > > others... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph > > is > > > > true? > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you > > evaluate > > > > that? > > > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind- thought) > > > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to > be > > > > what > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix- up > > > > mecanism > > > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > > > anybody > > > > to > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all > > so > > > > > called > > > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > > > buisness... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying > > above > > > > is > > > > > > true & > > > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > > > is " other " & > > > > > > what > > > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is > > there > > > > even a > > > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the > > problem? ;- > > > ) > > > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is > > taken > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > real... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the > > mountains > > > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > > > lake.... > > > > > mountain.... > > > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the > one > > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > > > > " Self " is not identified with " self " > > > > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > > > > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > yes... > > > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind- prison) > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > ...iietsa > > yes.... > > it is not the names.... > it is not the forms.... > it is not the concepts.... > it is not the mind-prison.... > it is not the dream-bubble(s).... > it is not of words..... > it is of no worlds.... > it is not of any importance for the dream-bubbles.... > it is not of birth and death... > it is not of little friendships and relationships.... > it is not of few drops....who imagine to be ocean.... > it is not of beginning and end... > it is not of " God " (s).... > it is not of intellect.... > it is not of love only.... > > therefore..... > > there is no reason to " fight " for anything in here..... > no reason to exchange endless mind-bubbles..... > no reason to teach anything to anybody.... > no reason to prove the existence of more or less mind-prison (ego- > mind)... > no reason to show the ignorance....to a world filled up with the > ignorance of oneself.... > > therefore.... > > let's empty the mind..... > > and be free > > Marc > no need even to empty the mind... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > I dont have any disputes...and I have no point of view... > > > if this how you see it...then maybe its your seeing that is a > point > > > of view... > > > and yes...words are mere words... > > > so why cling to them...why fight with them...why react to them... > > > why make words into reality...they are not > > > see them for what they are...and they can do nothing... > > > take them to be what they are not...and your on the road to > hell... > > > ...iietsa > > > > sure you have a point of view. > NO...I clearly see point of views but I dont identify with them..ok Saying that you don't identify with points of view, is itself a point of view. This point of view involves believing there are things called points of view, that there are conditions attached to these points of view which are termed " identifying " and " not identifying. " Your point of view is that the condition termed " not identifying with points of view " can be applied to yourself. There are many ramifications to holding such a point of view. As long as you deny holding a point of view when you speak this way, you won't examine/investigate the assumptions involved in the point of view you're maintaining. > > it includes ideas about a road to hell people are on because they > take > > words the wrong way, and ideas about their clinging, fighting, and > > reacting -- which you don't think you do, but do think you can > point > > out to them. > if one identifies with a point of view...this denies who I am... > and who I am is the only important (thing) that is....point of views > are nonsence....they are not real...only false... > > > to be blind to one's having a point of view disqualifies one from > > being able to preach to others about their points of view, in my > > humble opinion. > you gladly quotes jesus down below so WHY JUDGE AND WHY TROW > STONES... Is that what you think I'm doing? But that thought is only from your point of view. My point of view is that I'm raising questions and inquiring. What, aside from the point of view you're maintaining, leads you to think that any judgment of you is involved in the questions I'm raising? > > first, be fully aware of your own, and upon what the assumptions > it is > > based. > > > > " be aware of the beam in your own eye, before you set about to take > > the splinter out of your neighbor's eye. " > > > > -- D. > all point of views are welccmed in love....no need to judge... > they are only thoughts...I am the one that sees them... > ...iietsa It doesn't make sense to me that love couldn't be involved in disputing, perhaps utterly rejecting, someone's point of view. For example, if someone is a racist, I wouldn't accept that point of view in love, but, if they were able to maintain an open conversation with me, would raise questions about it. It seems to me that disputing points of view, and not accepting them, can be quite loving, in the big picture. But you see, my point of view differs from yours on this issue. And, just so you don't take me wrong, I'm not claiming that there is a separately existing " you " that is attached to your point of view, nor that there is such a " you " attached to mine, either. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can > > be > > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > > > that > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > constancy only has meaning in relation to the transitory. > > > > > > nothing has its own existence and quality to itself, including > > > constancy, including silence. > > > > > > only as sound appears and disappears, do you notice and define > > > silence, in contrast. only as transitory phenomena are observed, > > do > > > you notice and define " constancy, " in relation. > > > > > > in this sense, sound is the silence, the transitory is the > > constancy. > > > > > > > > > -- D. > > > > > being is its own existence and its own quality and is constant... > > it doesnt die and it isnt born... > > ...iietsa > > Ietsa - > > What doesn't die and isn't born, can't be a " what " and doesn't have > any quality associated. Qualities have beginnings and ends, including > qualities like " constancy, " " being, " and " existence. " > > -- Dan > beyond the so-called " me " there is...a deeper existence... and this existence or being or whatever name we use... cannot be understood by the mind... it is within this beingness that the mind is operating... the mind is only a piece within this openness... or whatever name the mind gives it... dont stick with words...words are only mindcreations... dont react at all...the openness never reacts... in nature of openness its not possible to react... nor to stick...cling...resist...hate...Unameit ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > > <dan330033@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that > > can > > > > be > > > > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is > > nothing > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to > > bite > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " plop! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds > > disappear... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, > > > > > > > > > > Only darkness is constant... light appears and light > > disappears... > > > > > > > > > > only vacuum is constant...air appears and air disappears... > > > > > > > > > > only stupidity is constant...intelligence appears and > > intelligence > > > > > disappears... > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > well...I guess you could say so... > > > > or maybe its just fishing for reactions...I dont know... > > > > > > > > stupidity runs the race to hell...and the winner is the loser... > > > > intelligenge is constant...stupidity is being born and dies > > away... > > > > some stupidity lasts longer...but there is no such thing as > > > > constant stupidity...or ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Actually, he was making an excellent point, and being funny at the > > > same time. > > > > > > It's not by getting rid of anything transitory, that you find > > > something constant to depend on. > > > > > > Trying to find something constant to depend on, isn't intelligence. > > > > > > -- D. > > who said " try to find something to depend on...is intelligence " ? > > ...iietsa > > D: Okay. Thus is released any bias in favor of constancy over > transitoriness. And vice versa. > > If there is no intent to depend or have, then no construct or concept > deserves any special emphasis, including concepts like " being " " truth " > " awareness " and related ideas. > > No? > > -- Dan > perfectly true...beyond those words ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > I dont have any disputes...and I have no point of view... > > > > if this how you see it...then maybe its your seeing that is a > > point > > > > of view... > > > > and yes...words are mere words... > > > > so why cling to them...why fight with them...why react to them... > > > > why make words into reality...they are not > > > > see them for what they are...and they can do nothing... > > > > take them to be what they are not...and your on the road to > > hell... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > sure you have a point of view. > > NO...I clearly see point of views but I dont identify with them..ok > > Saying that you don't identify with points of view, is itself a point > of view. ok..so if someone says he is not a donkey...then instantly he is a donkey...or what are you suggesting here ? > This point of view involves believing there are things called points > of view, that there are conditions attached to these points of view > which are termed " identifying " and " not identifying. " only dont stick to the mind and all is well..... nothing more to argue about... > Your point of view is that the condition termed " not identifying with > points of view " can be applied to yourself. I apply nothing to myself...not this idea not that idea... > There are many ramifications to holding such a point of view. I dont know the word " ramifications " ...but I dont hold on to any word or what they can mean or say.... > As long as you deny holding a point of view when you speak this way, > you won't examine/investigate the assumptions involved in the point of > view you're maintaining. only dont stick to ideas (not even this one above) and your seeing will be free to see truely... > > > it includes ideas about a road to hell people are on because they > > take > > > words the wrong way, and ideas about their clinging, fighting, and > > > reacting -- which you don't think you do, but do think you can > > point > > > out to them. > > if one identifies with a point of view...this denies who I am... > > and who I am is the only important (thing) that is....point of views > > are nonsence....they are not real...only false... > > > > > to be blind to one's having a point of view disqualifies one from > > > being able to preach to others about their points of view, in my > > > humble opinion. > > you gladly quotes jesus down below so WHY JUDGE AND WHY TROW > > STONES... > > Is that what you think I'm doing? But that thought is only from your > point of view. I dont think at all...so how could I think that you are doing things... > My point of view is that I'm raising questions and inquiring. ok...I dont see it that way....I see it something like this: thoughts rising...sometimes appearing as questions sometimes appearing as answers...its all a play of the mind...and I dont do anything at all... > What, aside from the point of view you're maintaining, leads you to > think that any judgment of you is involved in the questions I'm raising? I am not thinking...you say that you think... I dont say that you do have a point of view...you say so about yourself and about me...and to say such a thing is to judge... of course I am not judged...I am not possible to judge... > > > first, be fully aware of your own, and upon what the assumptions > > it is > > > based. > > > > > > " be aware of the beam in your own eye, before you set about to take > > > the splinter out of your neighbor's eye. " > > > > > > -- D. > > all point of views are welccmed in love....no need to judge... > > they are only thoughts...I am the one that sees them... > > ...iietsa > > It doesn't make sense to me that love couldn't be involved in > disputing, perhaps utterly rejecting, someone's point of view. its all in the mind only...see it and be free from interfering with the mind... > For example, if someone is a racist, I wouldn't accept that point of > view in love, but, if they were able to maintain an open conversation > with me, would raise questions about it. dont become a racist yourself by doing to the racist what the racist is doing to you...s/he is a racist because of clinging to ideas and point of views...dont cling to point of views...not even the so- called better ones... > It seems to me that disputing points of view, and not accepting them, > can be quite loving, in the big picture. dont grab reactions...the will only make you into what you are not... > But you see, my point of view differs from yours on this issue. I dont have a point of view....its you that differ from openness.. > And, just so you don't take me wrong, I'm not claiming that there is a > separately existing " you " that is attached to your point of view, nor > that there is such a " you " attached to mine, either. > > -- Dan but you are saying that you are attached to your point of view..or ? and if this is the case...you will suffer as long as you hold on to this point of view....because holding on to a point of view is going against your own nature...openness... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
