Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > > true? > > > > that > > > > > > not > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > > that? > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > > what > > > > you > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > mecanism > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > > to > > > > help > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > called > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > buisness... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above > > is > > > > true & > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > is " other " & > > > > what > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > > even a > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > > be > > > > real... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^^how do you know? you say something is the true god & something > > > else is the false god. how do you know? both the true god & the > > false > > > god you speak of are only in your mind. since you say mind is > > > illusion, then both gods are false. no? dc^^^^ > > > > > all words are mind > > but beyond mind there is someting that is not word > > and of course you cannot catch it in words > > so this " true " is only a pointing beyond...dont stick with the word > > ...you...your " real " nature...are beyond the mind... > > but if you stick with the mind you deny your real nature... > > stop interfering with the mind > > its not your buisness > > leave it alone... > > and you will knowingly be your real nature > > ...iietsa > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ > the words " real nature " ... " beyond " ... " true " ... " false " is the mind...yes...... if you insist clinging to words, thoughts, ideas.... you agree to be a prisoner of the mind ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > " useless " is .... what? > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > Now what? > > Hmmmmmm..... > > ;-) > > -- Dan > only silence is... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your > mind. > > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > concepts > > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. > no? > > dc^^^^ > > > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > because > > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > concept. > > > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that > all > > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " > are also > > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " > or > > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > said? > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? if > > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is > essentially > > the same argument you are making. dc > > > As soon as one opens their mouth a concept arises. Yet can't the > concept act as a pointer to that which is not conceptual? > > " Reality. What a concept! " ____Robin Williams > words that is somehow trying to point to the true seeing.. is only a trying to release your eyes from the concept.. to just letting the seeing be free from attachement to concepts.. ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your > mind. > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > concepts > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? > dc^^^^ > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > because > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > concept. > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are > also > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > -- Dan > > > only silence is... > ...iietsa > sure... does that relate to Dan's post? Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? > > that > > > > not > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > > what's > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > you > > > > are not... > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to > > help > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > called > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- buisness... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > true & > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & > > what > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > dc^^^ > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be > > real... > > > > ...iietsa > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > fishes in the lake...... > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > Self....is all This.....together > lake.... > mountain.... > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > wish a peaceful day > > Marc > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " " Self " is not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your > > mind. > > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > > concepts > > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. > no? > > dc^^^^ > > > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > > because > > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > > concept. > > > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that > all > > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are > > also > > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " > or > > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > > can be > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > only silence is... > > ...iietsa > > > sure... > does that relate to Dan's post? > > Bill > I dont know... ....but if only silence is... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > true? > > > that > > > > > not > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > that? > > > > > what's > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > > you > > > > > are not... > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > mecanism > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > to > > > help > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > called > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > buisness... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > > true & > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " > & > > > what > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > even a > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > be > > > real... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > fishes in the lake...... > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > lake.... > > mountain.... > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > Marc > > > Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > true? > > > that > > > > > not > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > that? > > > > > what's > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > what > > > you > > > > > are not... > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > mecanism > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > to > > > help > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > called > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > buisness... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above > is > > > true & > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > is " other " & > > > what > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > even a > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;- ) > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > be > > > real... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > fishes in the lake...... > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > lake.... > > mountain.... > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > Marc > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > " Self " is not identified with " self " > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > ...iietsa yes... there is only one and only real Self.....for All (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > > true? > > > > that > > > > > > not > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > > that? > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > > > you > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > mecanism > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > > to > > > > help > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > > called > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > buisness... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > > > true & > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " > > & > > > > what > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > > even a > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > > be > > > > real... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > lake.... > > > mountain.... > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. > > toombaru toombaru is a real make believe kingdom.... Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > true? > > > that > > > > > not > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > that? > > > > > what's > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > what > > > you > > > > > are not... > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > mecanism > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > to > > > help > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > called > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > buisness... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above > is > > > true & > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > is " other " & > > > what > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > even a > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > be > > > real... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > fishes in the lake...... > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > lake.... > > mountain.... > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > Marc > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > " Self " is not identified with " self " > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > ...iietsa > Self....self. God......man. Gimme dat ole time religion. Gimme dat ole time religion. Gimme dat ole time relegion............ It's good enough for me. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. > > > > toombaru > > toombaru is a real make believe kingdom.... > > Marc > > > Agreed. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > > true? > > > > that > > > > > > not > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > > that? > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > > > you > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > mecanism > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > > to > > > > help > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > > called > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > buisness... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > > > true & > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " > > & > > > > what > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > > even a > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > > be > > > > real... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > lake.... > > > mountain.... > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. > > toombaru - " Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. " ...........I sometimes wonder what space you live in. Whatever it is I don't envy it. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find > bliss... > > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being > bliss > > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > > > true? > > > > > that > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > > > that? > > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > what > > > > > you > > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > > mecanism > > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > anybody > > > to > > > > > help > > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > > > called > > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > > buisness... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying > above is > > > > > true & > > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > is " other " > > > & > > > > > what > > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > > > even a > > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the > problem? ;-) > > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken > to > > > be > > > > > real... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > > lake.... > > > > mountain.... > > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. > > > > toombaru > > > - " Shangri La is a make believe kingdom. " > > ..........I sometimes wonder what space you live in. > Whatever it is I don't envy it. > > > > > > That is because you believe that you have a self to protect. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in > your > > mind. > > > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > > concepts > > > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. > > no? > > > dc^^^^ > > > > > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > > because > > > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > > concept. > > > > > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say > that > > all > > > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " > > are also > > > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement > as " meaningless " > > or > > > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > > said? > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > that > > can be > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > itself. > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? > if > > > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is > > essentially > > > the same argument you are making. dc > > > > > > As soon as one opens their mouth a concept arises. Yet can't the > > concept act as a pointer to that which is not conceptual? > > > > " Reality. What a concept! " ____Robin Williams > > > > words that is somehow trying to point to the true seeing.. > is only a trying to release your eyes from the concept.. > to just letting the seeing be free from attachement to concepts.. > ...iietsa > yes... just see. no thinking or remembering or conceptualizing is needed. see what is based on present evidence as it is right now. it's like i am clear, unlimited beingness. ;-) dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > > true? > > > > that > > > > > > not > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > > that? > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > > what > > > > you > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > mecanism > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > anybody > > to > > > > help > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > > > called > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > buisness... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above > > is > > > > true & > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > is " other " & > > > > what > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > > even a > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;- > ) > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken > to > > be > > > > real... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > lake.... > > > mountain.... > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > > " Self " is not identified with " self " > > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > > ...iietsa > > yes... > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) > > Marc > > > there is only one...real Self...yes (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > > <iietsa@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find > bliss... > > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being > bliss > > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to > others... > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph > is > > > true? > > > > > that > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you > evaluate > > > that? > > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > > > what > > > > > you > > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > > > mecanism > > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > > anybody > > > to > > > > > help > > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all > so > > > > called > > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > > buisness... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying > above > > > is > > > > > true & > > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > > is " other " & > > > > > what > > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is > there > > > even a > > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the > problem? ;- > > ) > > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is > taken > > to > > > be > > > > > real... > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the > mountains > > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > > lake.... > > > > mountain.... > > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > > > " Self " is not identified with " self " > > > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > > > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > > > ...iietsa > > > > yes... > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) > > > > Marc > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > ...iietsa > Big S..............little s........... There is no self. It everything is one thing........nothing exists. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " " Self " is not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage ...iietsa yes... there is only one and only real Self.....for All (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) Marc there is only one...real Self...yes (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways ...iietsa > Big S..............little s........... > > > There is no self. > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > toombaru > Stock in the 'contra-loop' again Toombaru ? Era Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in > > your > > > mind. > > > > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > > > concepts > > > > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. > > > no? > > > > dc^^^^ > > > > > > > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > > > > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > > > because > > > > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > > > concept. > > > > > > > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say > > that > > > all > > > > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > > > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > > > > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " > > > are also > > > > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement > > as " meaningless " > > > or > > > > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > > > said? > > > > > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing > > that > > > can be > > > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? > > if > > > > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is > > > essentially > > > > the same argument you are making. dc > > > > > > > > > As soon as one opens their mouth a concept arises. Yet can't the > > > concept act as a pointer to that which is not conceptual? > > > > > > " Reality. What a concept! " ____Robin Williams > > > > > > > words that is somehow trying to point to the true seeing.. > > is only a trying to release your eyes from the concept.. > > to just letting the seeing be free from attachement to concepts.. > > ...iietsa > > > > > yes... just see. no thinking or remembering or conceptualizing is > needed. see what is based on present evidence as it is right now. it's > like i am clear, unlimited beingness. ;-) dc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > > > <iietsa@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find > > bliss... > > > > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being > > bliss > > > > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to > > others... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph > > is > > > > true? > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you > > evaluate > > > > that? > > > > > > > > what's > > > > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind- thought) > > > > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > > > > what > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are not... > > > > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix- up > > > > mecanism > > > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was > > > anybody > > > > to > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all > > so > > > > > called > > > > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > > > > buisness... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying > > above > > > > is > > > > > > true & > > > > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > > > > is " other " & > > > > > > what > > > > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is > > there > > > > even a > > > > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the > > problem? ;- > > > ) > > > > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is > > taken > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > real... > > > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > > > > > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > > > > > > > > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > > > > > fishes in the lake...... > > > > > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > > > > > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the > > mountains > > > > > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > > > > > > > > > Self....is all This.....together > > > > > lake.... > > > > > mountain.... > > > > > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wish a peaceful day > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one > > > > and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " > > > > " Self " is not identified with " self " > > > > " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom > > > > " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > yes... > > > > > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > > > > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind- prison) > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > there is only one...real Self...yes > > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the > > one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Big S..............little s........... > > > There is no self. > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > toombaru > yes...but when the nothingness mixes itself up with the mind there are all kinds of things being born...and this existens becomes all kinds of circus...and sometimes it goes bananas... and when it does you can be sure that there is a monkey in the neighberhood... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " " Self " is not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > ...iietsa > > yes... > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) > > Marc > > there is only one...real Self...yes > The real Self, please stand up, please stand up (incomplete rap song) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > > > the word " Self " the way I am seeing it...is a pointer to the one and you seem to see it the same way you see the word " self " " Self " is not identified with " self " " Self " is not identified with anything...it is pure freedom " self " is identified with Unameit...and is in bondage > ...iietsa > > yes... > > there is only one and only real Self.....for All > > (there are infinite number of little selfs.....in the mind-prison) > > Marc > > there is only one...real Self...yes > (whatever names we are givin it...it is not the names) > there is no need to attack the words for they dont say they are the one...they only say that they are not it...in different ways > ...iietsa > > > > > > Big S..............little s........... > > > > > > There is no self. > > > > > > It everything is one thing........nothing exists. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Stock in the 'contra-loop' again Toombaru ? > > Era > the real Self please stand up, please stand up... if Self is the only real Self, then what's the little self, the children of lesser gods? I'd like to cap the little i sometimes, especially at the beginning of a sentence. Then the little i imagines himself as the big I in the sky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? > dc^^^^ > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > -- Dan > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? if > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is essentially > the same argument you are making. dc I responded to whatever it was I responded to at the moment. What difference does it make whether it was yours or his or both? A dialogue was occurring, I offered a response, and on it goes. What difference would it make whether or not I read your email - it only contains concepts, no? How can what I said be the same as what you said, if concepts don't really contain anything or catch other concepts? So -- I'm not making an argument. I'm looking here, not at an object, nor a subject, but simply that a thought doesn't touch another thought. A word doesn't represent something. A concept doesn't catch another concept. When you can't move and can't stay where you are -- now what? It's not an argument. What is deeply profound isn't something I am saying. It's not the words " deeply profound. " But that doesn't mean that there isn't depth and profundity here. What a word - profundity. It makes me chuckle. Can't believe I actually wrote that. But I did. Peace, be well, chuckle, live profoundly. LOL. Good talking to you -- -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar wrote: > > > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be > said? > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? if > > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is > essentially > > the same argument you are making. dc > > > As soon as one opens their mouth a concept arises. Yet can't the > concept act as a pointer to that which is not conceptual? > > " Reality. What a concept! " ____Robin Williams No, it can't. Because " that which is nonconceptual " is also a concept. Can a concept really point? Whom is being pointed toward what, by a concept? Someone who exists outside the concept -- to something that exists outside the concept? Or is the whole idea of a concept, a pointing, something that exists to be pointed to, and someone to be pointed -- all included in the concept? And if that concept is not, what is to be said about it? And what pointing needed, or offered, or held? -- D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > -- Dan > > > only silence is... > ...iietsa " plop! " the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > > can be > > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > > > Now what? > > > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > only silence is... > > ...iietsa > > " plop! " > > the sound of a frog jumping in (to the pond). > > -- Dan > only silence is constant...sounds appear and sounds disappear... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
