Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 suffering is everyday-life for most people... can one do anything to help another to find bliss... its obvious that mere words will not do much... and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... there is not much of change happening to others... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > there is not much of change happening to others... > ...iietsa > how do you know? dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > ...iietsa > > > > how do you know? dc > know what ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > know what ? > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that not much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? what's your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > know what ? > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that not > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? what's > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you are not... this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all ....to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to help .....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > oneself.... > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that > not > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > what's > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you > are not... > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to help > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > ...iietsa > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is true & that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & what is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) dc^^^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > oneself.... > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that > > not > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > what's > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you > > are not... > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism The self IS the mix-up mechanism. toombaru > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to help > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > > ...iietsa > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is true & > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & what > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) dc^^^ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > there is not much of change happening to others... > ...iietsa .....one can give up the " wish " or " will " to change others..... there are people who got some (inner) peace......and still mix-up the real life-task*.....with mind-work..... see the Self....within everybody/everything.... Marc *Self-Realisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that > > > not > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > what's > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you > > > are not... > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > The self IS the mix-up mechanism. > > > toombaru ....quite so my love, without yourSelf and mySelf, we couldn't mix in the alchemy of Love. and then where would we be? ;-) > > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to help > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is true & > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & what > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) dc^^^ > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > oneself.... > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that > > not > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > what's > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you > > are not... > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to help > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > > ...iietsa > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is true & > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & what > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) dc^^^ > the Self is the true God...so to speak the mind...if emphasized...is the false God when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be real... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? that > > > not > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > what's > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what you > > > are not... > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > The self IS the mix-up mechanism. > > > toombaru > the false self...is the mix-up-thing but beyond all things of the mind...beyond the mix-up-thing ....there the so called real Self is... please dont stick with the words... true freedom is beyond the alfabet ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > ...iietsa > > > ....one can give up the " wish " or " will " to change others..... > > there are people who got some (inner) peace......and still mix-up the > real life-task*.....with mind-work..... > > see the Self....within everybody/everything.... > > > Marc > > its not " wish " or " will " and I dont want to change nobody Love is loving... and this love cant leave nobody that isnt there to suffer a dream that isnt real ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > ....one can give up the " wish " or " will " to change others..... > > > > there are people who got some (inner) peace......and still mix-up > the > > real life-task*.....with mind-work..... > > > > see the Self....within everybody/everything.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > its not " wish " or " will " > and I dont want to change nobody > Love is loving... > and this love cant leave nobody that isnt there to suffer a dream > that isnt real > ...iietsa > Sometimes the tarbabies would gather at the edge of the tar pit and talk about unstickyness. Even though none of them had ever actually experienced unstickyness......they spoke of it with some authority. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? > that > > > not > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > what's > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > you > > > are not... > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to > help > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > true & > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & > what > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > dc^^^ > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be > real... > > ...iietsa > ^^^^how do you know? you say something is the true god & something else is the false god. how do you know? both the true god & the false god you speak of are only in your mind. since you say mind is illusion, then both gods are false. no? dc^^^^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? > > that > > > > not > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > > what's > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > you > > > > are not... > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to > > help > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- buisness... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > true & > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & > > what > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > dc^^^ > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be > > real... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > ^^^^how do you know? you say something is the true god & something > else is the false god. how do you know? both the true god & the false > god you speak of are only in your mind. since you say mind is > illusion, then both gods are false. no? dc^^^^ > all words are mind but beyond mind there is someting that is not word and of course you cannot catch it in words so this " true " is only a pointing beyond...dont stick with the word ....you...your " real " nature...are beyond the mind... but if you stick with the mind you deny your real nature... stop interfering with the mind its not your buisness leave it alone... and you will knowingly be your real nature ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is > true? > > > that > > > > > not > > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate > that? > > > > > what's > > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be > what > > > you > > > > > are not... > > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up > mecanism > > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody > to > > > help > > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > called > > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- > buisness... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above > is > > > true & > > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what > is " other " & > > > what > > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there > even a > > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > > dc^^^ > > > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to > be > > > real... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > ^^^^how do you know? you say something is the true god & something > > else is the false god. how do you know? both the true god & the > false > > god you speak of are only in your mind. since you say mind is > > illusion, then both gods are false. no? dc^^^^ > > > all words are mind > but beyond mind there is someting that is not word > and of course you cannot catch it in words > so this " true " is only a pointing beyond...dont stick with the word > ...you...your " real " nature...are beyond the mind... > but if you stick with the mind you deny your real nature... > stop interfering with the mind > its not your buisness > leave it alone... > and you will knowingly be your real nature > ...iietsa > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is reality, is also useless, for the same reason. And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or " useless " is .... what? What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. Now what? Hmmmmmm..... ;-) -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > " useless " is .... what? > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > Now what? > > Hmmmmmm..... > > ;-) You will " come back " to say what Dan just said above ?! > > -- Dan > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your > mind. > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > concepts > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? > dc^^^^ > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > because > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > concept. > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are > also > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > You will " come back " to say > what Dan just said above ?! > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > open spaces in the mind, thoughts like clouds, pass by leave shadows YIL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? dc^^^^ > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > " useless " is .... what? > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > Now what? > > Hmmmmmm..... > > ;-) > > -- Dan > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? if not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is essentially the same argument you are making. dc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your > mind. > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " > concepts > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? > dc^^^^ > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, > because > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another > concept. > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are > also > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that > can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > You will " come back " to say > what Dan just said above ?! ^^^^yeah i just read dan's response to me & i thought why is he repeating what i just said??? hello? LOL dc > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > ^^^^this " real nature " that you allude to is also only in your mind. > > > this " beyond " that u refer to is in your mind. these " true " concepts > > > of yours are just as illusory as the so called " false " ones. no? > dc^^^^ > > > > " True " and " false " and " just as " are also concepts. > > > > So, it's meaningless to say that concepts are true or false, because > > that is just labelling one concept by virtue of using another concept. > > > > " Illlusion " and " reality " are likewise concepts, so to say that all > > concept is illusion and something else that is nonconceptual is > > reality, is also useless, for the same reason. > > > > And " meaningful " and " meaningless " and " useful " and " useless " are also > > concepts, so to refer to a conceptual statement as " meaningless " or > > " useless " is .... what? > > > > What are you going to say, when there is nothing that can be said? > > > > And then, you realize, that thinking that there is nothing that can be > > said, is also the same old attempt to use a tooth to bite itself. > > > > Now what? > > > > Hmmmmmm..... > > > > ;-) > > > > -- Dan > > > > > i think you are responding to iietsa's email & not mine, right? if > not, then, did you read my email? my argument to iietsa is essentially > the same argument you are making. dc As soon as one opens their mouth a concept arises. Yet can't the concept act as a pointer to that which is not conceptual? " Reality. What a concept! " ____Robin Williams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss oneself.... > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > ....one can give up the " wish " or " will " to change others..... > > > > there are people who got some (inner) peace......and still mix-up > the > > real life-task*.....with mind-work..... > > > > see the Self....within everybody/everything.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > its not " wish " or " will " > and I dont want to change nobody > Love is loving... > and this love cant leave nobody that isnt there to suffer a dream > that isnt real > ...iietsa ....nice words Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? > that > > > not > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > what's > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > you > > > are not... > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to > help > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so called > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up-buisness... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > true & > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & > what > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > dc^^^ > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be > real... > > ...iietsa maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... .....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... fishes in the lake...... sometimes....when the water is clear..... fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... Self....is all This.....together lake.... mountain.... fishes....swimming nicely... wish a peaceful day Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering is everyday-life for most people... > > > > > > > > can one do anything to help another to find bliss... > > > > > > > > its obvious that mere words will not do much... > > > > > > > > and its quite obvious too, that just by being bliss > > > > oneself.... > > > > > > > > there is not much of change happening to others... > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know? dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > know what ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how do you know what you said in the above paragraph is true? > > that > > > > not > > > > > much change is happening to others? how do you evaluate that? > > > > what's > > > > > your criteria of measurement? share with me. dc > > > > > > > > > " other " (the true Self mixed up with the mind-thought) > > > > when mixed up with mind...there is taking yourself to be what > > you > > > > are not... > > > > this " entity " is false...so whatever change there is - > > > > is to his " entity " and therefor no change at all > > > > ...to help the " other " ....only sustains the " other " > > > > > > > > real help is when the Self somehow realizes this mix-up mecanism > > > > and when this realization is there...there never was anybody to > > help > > > > ....and when all this is clear it can be said that all so > called > > > > help was a hindrance....it was a part of the mix-up- buisness... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^yeah, but, how do you know that what you are saying above is > > true & > > > that you are not mixed up? how do you determine what is " other " & > > what > > > is not? where does " other " begin & " the self " end? is there even a > > > division between the two? if not, then what's the problem? ;-) > > dc^^^ > > > > > the Self is the true God...so to speak > > the mind...if emphasized...is the false God > > when you are true...the mind by nature is in its right place > > when mind is made king...then all kinds of illusions is taken to be > > real... > > > > ...iietsa > > maybe what lead to Self....is the energy of God..... > God is the key....is love....represent Oneness of being.... > > Self....has nothing realy to do with all This..... > > > ....there is a lake....in the middle of nice mountains..... > fishes in the lake...... > sometimes....when the water is clear..... > fishes get a little " view " ....and " idea " ....about the mountains > around......the lake.....they are " catched in " ...... > > Self....is all This.....together > lake.... > mountain.... > fishes....swimming nicely... > > > wish a peaceful day > > Marc Ps: welcome to Shangri La... > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
