Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > hey ana......... you miss the question...I know who you are...but... > > I am asking how you came to realize your path... > > how you came to realize your own true nature... > > nisargadatta could answer this question easely... > > but on this list I find no such easyness... > > all I see here is " I am the one " ... " It cannot be found by looking. " > > " It is the looking. " ... " what door are u hiding behind? " > > > > ...iietsa > > Apparently you are asking your questions to the list, so I will do > what I can to answer: > > The words you've used: " realization " and " your own true nature " and > " realizing your path " -- don't fit perfectly for me. But I can > respond to the gist of your question: > > I take it you are asking how did knowing 'what is so' happen for me. > > It happened/happens/is spontaneously, of itself -- and isn't in the > past, and isn't something I have, is not more here than there, not > more mine than yours. > > And it didn't occur in spite of me, but because I tried and failed -- > this simply is what remains when all that was apparently formed from > my activity -- is not. > > To answer your earlier question, was this a boom or a subtle shift -- > it shook things up, very much so -- disorientingly so, yet all > reintegrated and continued on of itself, the events of my life falling > into place -- an ordinary life of an ordinary person. The tendencies > forming as me and my life continuing to work themselves out and > through just as usual. > > You ask how did it affect my life -- deeply, but without changing > anything. > > You ask how did it happen - just as the end of the movement of > attempting, holding, and investing in/as a center, or as trying to get > somewhere else or be some other way. > > A dissolution of the activity in trying to anticipate a next moment - > yet still able to think and plan, with no problem. > > -- D. > I relate both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all and as in my account, no finding of an It, but an *ending* of something false. what is left is simply What Is. which in retrospect is seen to have always been, but had always been occluded by the false. Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It understood that it never left home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > how ? > > > > reading books... > > > > parroting quotes... > > > > learning religion... > > > > how ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It cannot be found by looking. > > > > > > It cannot be found by not looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is it.........right here..........right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > This...........is as close as you will ever be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > In his own words, > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take yourself > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find your real > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would spend > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it made, and > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true nature. " > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > If one realizes their 'true nature' they are no more. > > How does one realize that a mirage will not quench their thrist? > > Seeing the mirage for what it is...........and what it isn't. > > > You cannot take the path that Nisargadatta took. > > Each halucination is unique....... > > > > Scent the air....pet a puppy.....when you hug someone....be the last > to let go...... > > Cultivate fearlessness. > > Walk peacefully through the mystery. > > Accept joyfully those things that occur naturally. > > Anticipate loving-kindness. > > Flow along with the thought stream......immersed in the clarity of > unknowing. > > When you can.......lower your legs........stand up.....and look around. > > Be yourself. > > > > > toombaru > oh I love this toombaru2006! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > ...iietsa the real Self just Is....It can't find Itself... because It never has been anything....but Self the dream of life.....of different personalities....of " you and me " .....of worlds.....of misery....of pain....of happiness..... is as long running.....as there is the dream of identification with body-mind-intellect.... this dream is called sometimes " ego-mind " .... whenever there is this dream running....it's related to the world.... to time and space.....to mind but there is a " voice " ....behind....all this..... telling ..... " hey.....don't be trapped in this illusory things..... here and now .....is Home......realize It! " .... few thoughts...once were coming to mind too.....telling.... " there is nothing but God " ...... " all this....is God " ..... " all this...is One " ..... and then.....later.... " let peace enter into this....oneness.... " ..... " finish your work...and task.....and attachments/detachments......into this bubble of life-dream.... " to realise yourSelf..... just be yourSelf.... Marc Ps: whenever this little consciousness is aware of Self.....there is Nothingness.....there is no more world(-consciousness) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > ...iietsa > > > the real Self just Is....It can't find Itself... > because It never has been anything....but Self > > > the dream of life.....of different personalities....of " you and > me " .....of worlds.....of misery....of pain....of happiness..... > is as long running.....as there is the dream of identification with > body-mind-intellect.... > this dream is called sometimes " ego-mind " .... > whenever there is this dream running....it's related to the world.... > to time and space.....to mind > > but there is a " voice " ....behind....all this..... > telling ..... " hey.....don't be trapped in this illusory things..... > here and now .....is Home......realize It! " .... > > few thoughts...once were coming to mind too.....telling.... > " there is nothing but God " ...... " all this....is God " ..... > " all this...is One " ..... > > and then.....later.... > " let peace enter into this....oneness.... " ..... > " finish your work...and task.....and > attachments/detachments......into this bubble of life-dream.... " > > to realise yourSelf..... > > just be yourSelf.... > > Marc > > > Ps: whenever this little consciousness is aware of Self.....there is > Nothingness.....there is no more world(-consciousness) > Nothingness... vast rich deep nothing like it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 >If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > village.......they will all say something quite different. But they will all say something...I don't think many people would try to be smart and say " what car? There is no car. These are concepts " ! Someone asks a simple question and your answers sound like lines from Aesop, or Bodhidharma. Nis never did that, he just talked straight to people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > hey ana......... you miss the question...I know who you are...but... > > > I am asking how you came to realize your path... > > > how you came to realize your own true nature... > > > nisargadatta could answer this question easely... > > > but on this list I find no such easyness... > > > all I see here is " I am the one " ... " It cannot be found by looking. " > > > " It is the looking. " ... " what door are u hiding behind? " > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > Apparently you are asking your questions to the list, so I will do > > what I can to answer: > > > > The words you've used: " realization " and " your own true nature " and > > " realizing your path " -- don't fit perfectly for me. But I can > > respond to the gist of your question: > > > > I take it you are asking how did knowing 'what is so' happen for me. > > > > It happened/happens/is spontaneously, of itself -- and isn't in the > > past, and isn't something I have, is not more here than there, not > > more mine than yours. > > > > And it didn't occur in spite of me, but because I tried and failed -- > > this simply is what remains when all that was apparently formed from > > my activity -- is not. > > > > To answer your earlier question, was this a boom or a subtle shift -- > > it shook things up, very much so -- disorientingly so, yet all > > reintegrated and continued on of itself, the events of my life falling > > into place -- an ordinary life of an ordinary person. The tendencies > > forming as me and my life continuing to work themselves out and > > through just as usual. > > > > You ask how did it affect my life -- deeply, but without changing > > anything. > > > > You ask how did it happen - just as the end of the movement of > > attempting, holding, and investing in/as a center, or as trying to get > > somewhere else or be some other way. > > > > A dissolution of the activity in trying to anticipate a next moment - > > yet still able to think and plan, with no problem. > > > > -- D. > > > > I relate > both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all > > and as in my account, no finding of an It, > but an *ending* of something false. > > what is left is simply What Is. > > which in retrospect is seen to have always been, > but had always been occluded by the false. > > Bill > and oddly.....it all seems immersed within a buoyant positivity. :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > >If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > But they will all say something...I don't think many people would try > to be smart and say " what car? There is no car. These are concepts " ! > > Someone asks a simple question and your answers sound like lines from > Aesop, or Bodhidharma. Nis never did that, he just talked straight to > people. > No he didn't. You want words to do something beyond their ability. No sage ever has said the way It is. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " > > <iietsa@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It understood that it never left home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how ? > > > > > > > > reading books... > > > > > > > > parroting quotes... > > > > > > > > learning religion... > > > > > > > > how ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It cannot be found by looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It cannot be found by not looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is it.........right here..........right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This...........is as close as you will ever be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you > take > > > > yourself > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > your > > > > real > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > spend > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > made, > > > > and > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one realizes their 'true nature' they are no more. > > > > > > > > > > How does one realize that a mirage will not quench their > > thrist? > > > > > > > > > > Seeing the mirage for what it is...........and what it isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot take the path that Nisargadatta took. > > > > > > > > > > Each halucination is unique....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scent the air....pet a puppy.....when you hug someone....be > > the > > > > last > > > > > to let go...... > > > > > > > > > > Cultivate fearlessness. > > > > > > > > > > Walk peacefully through the mystery. > > > > > > > > > > Accept joyfully those things that occur naturally. > > > > > > > > > > Anticipate loving-kindness. > > > > > > > > > > Flow along with the thought stream......immersed in the > > clarity > > > of > > > > > unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > When you can.......lower your legs........stand up.....and > > look > > > > around. > > > > > > > > > > Be yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > you miss the question... > > > > I am not asking you to say > > > > " I took the same path that Nisargadatta took. " > > > > I am asking about your path... > > > > how you came to realize your path...your own true nature... > > > > this question is not impossible to give an answer to... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > I i et sa > > > > > > who are u really??? I sent a short autobiography more than a > year > > > ago to all the groups I had joined, my name is Ana (Anna) Ruiz I > > am > > > an open secret, unlocking the doors called 'you'. > > > > > > who is Iietsa? what door are u hiding behind? the tiger or the > > > lady? I am both my dear. > > > > > > YIL, > > > Ana > > > > hey ana......... you miss the question...I know who you > are...but... > > I am asking how you came to realize your path... > > how you came to realize your own true nature... > > nisargadatta could answer this question easely... > > but on this list I find no such easyness... > > all I see here is " I am the one " ... " It cannot be found by looking. " > > " It is the looking. " ... " what door are u hiding behind? " > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > ...and you missed my question, I wrote my autobiography with my > name, no phantom character, except the character I am-ing. I ask > again who are u? > > answer me: who is asking the question? > > ...is that so difficult to answer? > > > Ana > you are asking " who are you ? " ..... I am asking " how did you come to know yourself " there is a difference in questioning... I am who I am...ok and I come to know my own true Self when the false self died... know you might ask how the false self died.... or you might stick with the " who are you ? " there is nothing wrong with neither of them...the questions ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > nisargadatta: > > In his own words, > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take yourself > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find your real > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would spend > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it made, and > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true nature. " > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > Yes, I would like to know that too. Usually there is some kind of > story. I have only had glimpse, usually just before I wake up, and > they seem to be sponataneous, although they have coincided with dreams > about N. > honest and simple...fantastic... this glimpse...when it is there...is it full of power and light... or...you tell me.... ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > In his own words, > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > yourself > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find your > > real > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would spend > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it made, > > and > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > nature. " > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists only as > a concept. > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind of a > bird it was. > > > > toombaru > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car they drove...yes but I am not searching for a method... and I am not trying to attain something... I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was .....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? can you see the difference in questioning.... you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... so suddenly he heard the song....... ....how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? do you understand the question ? ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > > > >If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > But they will all say something...I don't think many people would try > > to be smart and say " what car? There is no car. These are concepts " ! > > > > Someone asks a simple question and your answers sound like lines from > > Aesop, or Bodhidharma. Nis never did that, he just talked straight to > > people. > > > > > > No he didn't. > > > You want words to do something beyond their ability. > > > No sage ever has said the way It is. > > > > toombaru > just hold me close to you is enough.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > > yourself > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > your > > > real > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > spend > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > made, > > > and > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > only as > > a concept. > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > of a > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > they drove...yes > but I am not searching for a method... > and I am not trying to attain something... > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > can you see the difference in questioning.... > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... > so suddenly he heard the song....... > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > do you understand the question ? > ...iietsa > in one and ever present moment grace descends to be heard, to be felt, to be understood with no one there in its place... it is love falling in love Ana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > > yourself > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > your > > > real > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > spend > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > made, > > > and > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > only as > > a concept. > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > of a > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > they drove...yes > but I am not searching for a method... > and I am not trying to attain something... > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > can you see the difference in questioning.... > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... > so suddenly he heard the song....... > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > do you understand the question ? > ...iietsa > Yes. You are asking: Who am I? The answer to which is: He am I. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > hey ana......... you miss the question...I know who you are...but... > > > I am asking how you came to realize your path... > > > how you came to realize your own true nature... > > > nisargadatta could answer this question easely... > > > but on this list I find no such easyness... > > > all I see here is " I am the one " ... " It cannot be found by looking. " > > > " It is the looking. " ... " what door are u hiding behind? " > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > Apparently you are asking your questions to the list, so I will do > > what I can to answer: > > > > The words you've used: " realization " and " your own true nature " and > > " realizing your path " -- don't fit perfectly for me. But I can > > respond to the gist of your question: > > > > I take it you are asking how did knowing 'what is so' happen for me. > > > > It happened/happens/is spontaneously, of itself -- and isn't in the > > past, and isn't something I have, is not more here than there, not > > more mine than yours. > > > > And it didn't occur in spite of me, but because I tried and failed -- > > this simply is what remains when all that was apparently formed from > > my activity -- is not. > > > > To answer your earlier question, was this a boom or a subtle shift -- > > it shook things up, very much so -- disorientingly so, yet all > > reintegrated and continued on of itself, the events of my life falling > > into place -- an ordinary life of an ordinary person. The tendencies > > forming as me and my life continuing to work themselves out and > > through just as usual. > > > > You ask how did it affect my life -- deeply, but without changing > > anything. > > > > You ask how did it happen - just as the end of the movement of > > attempting, holding, and investing in/as a center, or as trying to get > > somewhere else or be some other way. > > > > A dissolution of the activity in trying to anticipate a next moment - > > yet still able to think and plan, with no problem. > > > > -- D. > > > > I relate > both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all > > and as in my account, no finding of an It, > but an *ending* of something false. > > what is left is simply What Is. > > which in retrospect is seen to have always been, > but had always been occluded by the false. > > Bill > by " what is " do you mean the world ? iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > > > yourself > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > your > > > > real > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > spend > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > made, > > > > and > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > only as > > > a concept. > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > > of a > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > > they drove...yes > > but I am not searching for a method... > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > do you understand the question ? > > ...iietsa > > > > > Yes. > > > You are asking: > > Who am I? > > > > The answer to which is: He am I. > > > > toombaru > I am not asking Who are you...................................... listen carefully................................................. how did you realize your true nature ? how did you suddenly came to hear the song ? ....iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > there is something wrong with this question. > > > > it is more: how did the false sense of self end? > > > > what is left is What Is... > > > > you may call What Is your real Self... but that > > seems an odd term to me, as it (seems to me) > > connotes a *distinctness*, a definite something > > that is the " real Self " . > > > > I find no such distinctness at all. > > > > here there is just the open UN-distinctness of What Is. > > > > ever-open, ever new. > > > > so I don't like that term " real Self " > > > > as for " How did the false sense of self end? " > > > > there was a disindentification with the origination > > of thoughts and feelings. Thoughts and feelings were > > seen to be arising of their own... and belonging to > > no one. > > > > apparently the false sense of self [the word 'false' > > is redundant there!] IS identification with the origination > > of thoughts and feelings. > > > > Bill > > > > Note: any " sense of self " is false, is illusion. > > > thanks Bill > when you are the true Self....that very Self is the treasure > ....pure light....the meaning itself.... > all esle is nonsense(illusions) > > ...iietsa > so often, for many of us, we are just haggling over preferences about words... which is okay but it has been dawning on me, especially as I started digging in to find out what people really meant by " I am " etc. lots of surprises. I resist the terms " I " and " self/Self " because they seem *so* personal to me and to me it is not personal... it is magnificently, wonderfully beyond personal but then the personal does come in in some wonderful ways, too like the chuckle I get when I see toombaru loosen up ) so personal/impersonal but hey! at least let's give the Impersonal equal time here! Bill Note: this all reminds me of the Hindu discussions about the personal vs. impersonal aspects of God Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you > take > > > > yourself > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > your > > > > real > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > spend > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > made, > > > > and > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this > little > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > only as > > > a concept. > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > > of a > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > > they drove...yes > > but I am not searching for a method... > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same > place... > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it > before... > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > do you understand the question ? > > ...iietsa > > > > > in one and ever present moment grace descends > to be heard, > to be felt, > to be understood > > with no one there in its place... > > it is love falling in love > > Ana > yes yes yes...ever present jada jada but the day before your eyes opened for the first time...you was identified with name and form.......and so poff...this identification exploded and gone it was....and there your eyes saw for the first time...the real... what made the identification explode ? iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > there is something wrong with this question. > > > > > > it is more: how did the false sense of self end? > > > > > > what is left is What Is... > > > > > > you may call What Is your real Self... but that > > > seems an odd term to me, as it (seems to me) > > > connotes a *distinctness*, a definite something > > > that is the " real Self " . > > > > > > I find no such distinctness at all. > > > > > > here there is just the open UN-distinctness of What Is. > > > > > > ever-open, ever new. > > > > > > so I don't like that term " real Self " > > > > > > as for " How did the false sense of self end? " > > > > > > there was a disindentification with the origination > > > of thoughts and feelings. Thoughts and feelings were > > > seen to be arising of their own... and belonging to > > > no one. > > > > > > apparently the false sense of self [the word 'false' > > > is redundant there!] IS identification with the origination > > > of thoughts and feelings. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Note: any " sense of self " is false, is illusion. > > > > > thanks Bill > > when you are the true Self....that very Self is the treasure > > ....pure light....the meaning itself.... > > all esle is nonsense(illusions) > > > > ...iietsa > > > > so often, for many of us, we are just haggling over > preferences about words... > > which is okay > > but it has been dawning on me, > especially as I started digging in > to find out what people really meant > by " I am " etc. > > lots of surprises. > > I resist the terms " I " and " self/Self " > because they seem *so* personal to me > and to me it is not personal... > it is magnificently, wonderfully > beyond personal > > but then the personal does come in > in some wonderful ways, too > > like the chuckle I get when I see > toombaru loosen up ) > > so personal/impersonal > > but hey! > at least let's give the Impersonal > equal time here! > > > Bill > > Note: this all reminds me of the Hindu > discussions about the personal vs. > impersonal aspects of God > personal..impersonal...mere words...trying to say what ? iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is something wrong with this question. > > > > > > > > it is more: how did the false sense of self end? > > > > > > > > what is left is What Is... > > > > > > > > you may call What Is your real Self... but that > > > > seems an odd term to me, as it (seems to me) > > > > connotes a *distinctness*, a definite something > > > > that is the " real Self " . > > > > > > > > I find no such distinctness at all. > > > > > > > > here there is just the open UN-distinctness of What Is. > > > > > > > > ever-open, ever new. > > > > > > > > so I don't like that term " real Self " > > > > > > > > as for " How did the false sense of self end? " > > > > > > > > there was a disindentification with the origination > > > > of thoughts and feelings. Thoughts and feelings were > > > > seen to be arising of their own... and belonging to > > > > no one. > > > > > > > > apparently the false sense of self [the word 'false' > > > > is redundant there!] IS identification with the origination > > > > of thoughts and feelings. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Note: any " sense of self " is false, is illusion. > > > > > > > thanks Bill > > > when you are the true Self....that very Self is the treasure > > > ....pure light....the meaning itself.... > > > all esle is nonsense(illusions) > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > so often, for many of us, we are just haggling over > > preferences about words... > > > > which is okay > > > > but it has been dawning on me, > > especially as I started digging in > > to find out what people really meant > > by " I am " etc. > > > > lots of surprises. > > > > I resist the terms " I " and " self/Self " > > because they seem *so* personal to me > > and to me it is not personal... > > it is magnificently, wonderfully > > beyond personal > > > > but then the personal does come in > > in some wonderful ways, too > > > > like the chuckle I get when I see > > toombaru loosen up ) > > > > so personal/impersonal > > > > but hey! > > at least let's give the Impersonal > > equal time here! > > > > > > Bill > > > > Note: this all reminds me of the Hindu > > discussions about the personal vs. > > impersonal aspects of God > > > personal..impersonal...mere words...trying to say what ? > iietsa > this whole conversation trying to say what? if we are not connecting we are not connecting... Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did your real Self find itself ? > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is something wrong with this question. > > > > > > > > > > it is more: how did the false sense of self end? > > > > > > > > > > what is left is What Is... > > > > > > > > > > you may call What Is your real Self... but that > > > > > seems an odd term to me, as it (seems to me) > > > > > connotes a *distinctness*, a definite something > > > > > that is the " real Self " . > > > > > > > > > > I find no such distinctness at all. > > > > > > > > > > here there is just the open UN-distinctness of What Is. > > > > > > > > > > ever-open, ever new. > > > > > > > > > > so I don't like that term " real Self " > > > > > > > > > > as for " How did the false sense of self end? " > > > > > > > > > > there was a disindentification with the origination > > > > > of thoughts and feelings. Thoughts and feelings were > > > > > seen to be arising of their own... and belonging to > > > > > no one. > > > > > > > > > > apparently the false sense of self [the word 'false' > > > > > is redundant there!] IS identification with the origination > > > > > of thoughts and feelings. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Note: any " sense of self " is false, is illusion. > > > > > > > > > thanks Bill > > > > when you are the true Self....that very Self is the treasure > > > > ....pure light....the meaning itself.... > > > > all esle is nonsense(illusions) > > > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > so often, for many of us, we are just haggling over > > > preferences about words... > > > > > > which is okay > > > > > > but it has been dawning on me, > > > especially as I started digging in > > > to find out what people really meant > > > by " I am " etc. > > > > > > lots of surprises. > > > > > > I resist the terms " I " and " self/Self " > > > because they seem *so* personal to me > > > and to me it is not personal... > > > it is magnificently, wonderfully > > > beyond personal > > > > > > but then the personal does come in > > > in some wonderful ways, too > > > > > > like the chuckle I get when I see > > > toombaru loosen up ) > > > > > > so personal/impersonal > > > > > > but hey! > > > at least let's give the Impersonal > > > equal time here! > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Note: this all reminds me of the Hindu > > > discussions about the personal vs. > > > impersonal aspects of God > > > > > personal..impersonal...mere words...trying to say what ? > > iietsa > > > > this whole conversation trying to say what? > > if we are not connecting we are not connecting... > > Bill > the real is wheter there is a story going on or not does not matter ....all thats going on here is mere story the real stands beyond watching...not involved story this story that...ok, not ok...story I ask a question and someone says I am asking for stories... of course I am.... ....and all the answers given on this list is story too... stories is all there is...and if followed rightly they will let you know who you are...and if followed wrongly you believe that you are what you are not.... if a question is seen in the wrong way...it leads you astray and if an answer is heard in the deafh ear...it makes you a zoombie and a lost zoombie can still go parroting " I am the one " or it can say " I am a lost zoombie " ..... iietsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you > take > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > > your > > > > > real > > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > > spend > > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > > made, > > > > > and > > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true > nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this > little > > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > > only as > > > > a concept. > > > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what > kind > > > of a > > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the > car > > > they drove...yes > > > but I am not searching for a method... > > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same > place... > > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it > before... > > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > > do you understand the question ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > You are asking: > > > > Who am I? > > > > > > > > The answer to which is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He am I. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > I am not asking Who are you...................................... > listen carefully................................................. > how did you realize your true nature ? > how did you suddenly came to hear the song ? > ...iietsa > I looked..........and saw myself smiling back......everywhere. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this > little > > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > But they will all say something...I don't think many people > would try > > > to be smart and say " what car? There is no car. These are > concepts " ! > > > > > > Someone asks a simple question and your answers sound like lines > from > > > Aesop, or Bodhidharma. Nis never did that, he just talked > straight to > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > No he didn't. > > > > > > You want words to do something beyond their ability. > > > > > > No sage ever has said the way It is. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > just hold me close to you is enough.. > Waves on a river. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > I relate > both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all > > and as in my account, no finding of an It, > but an *ending* of something false. > > what is left is simply What Is. > > which in retrospect is seen to have always been, > but had always been occluded by the false. > > Bill Bill -- Never could be " really " occluded -- So, only " as if " occluded - due to belief, " as if " belief could determine reality (it can't " really " ) ;-) -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > I relate > > both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all > > > > and as in my account, no finding of an It, > > but an *ending* of something false. > > > > what is left is simply What Is. > > > > which in retrospect is seen to have always been, > > but had always been occluded by the false. > > > > Bill > Occlusion is part of what is. Actually, without it, nothing would be. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > I relate > > both abrupt and as if nothing had happened at all > > > > and as in my account, no finding of an It, > > but an *ending* of something false. > > > > what is left is simply What Is. > > > > which in retrospect is seen to have always been, > > but had always been occluded by the false. > > > > Bill > > Bill -- > > Never could be " really " occluded -- > > So, only " as if " occluded - due to belief, > " as if " belief could determine reality (it can't " really " ) > > ;-) > > -- Dan > Your entire personal reality is nothing but occlusion. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
