Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2006 In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:02:31 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: The True Guru > > In the end, God is going to win. > > > > > > > > Whose God? toombaru Who cares? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2006 > > In the end, God is going to win. > > > > > > > > Whose God? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > suggest it > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures the > awareness of > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. The > dismissal > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > to get out of illusion.... > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " that > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > be......is just perfect...... > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be any > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > Marc > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents a > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, and yet this > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by ignoring the > effort that ego already is. > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are not > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already present doing. > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a nonintegrous split > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, and the > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an effort to hold it > in place. > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed that confronting > effort is. this your words seem to take some effort.....to write..... your mind is busy to write down this your " view " ....with some effort.... isn't it?... so....i think it's just (another) dream...this " effortlessness " .... Marc > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > suggest it > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures the > > awareness of > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. The > > dismissal > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " that > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be any > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > Marc > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents a > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > and yet this > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by > ignoring the > > effort that ego already is. > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are not > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > present doing. > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > nonintegrous split > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, and > the > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > effort to hold it > > in place. > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > that confronting > > effort is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no solution for the characters within a dream. > > Effortlessness is the rusult of the Understanding not its cause. > > > > toombaru yes.....Effortlessness is the result of...... " whatever " .... agreed... Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 24, 2006 In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:17:16 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > suggest it > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures the > awareness of > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. The > dismissal > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > to get out of illusion.... > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " that > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > be......is just perfect...... > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be any > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > Marc > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents a > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, and yet this > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by ignoring the > effort that ego already is. > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are not > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already present doing. > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a nonintegrous split > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, and the > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an effort to hold it > in place. > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed that confronting > effort is. this your words seem to take some effort.....to write..... your mind is busy to write down this your " view " ....with some effort.... isn't it?... so....i think it's just (another) dream...this " effortlessness " .... Marc Of course! That's the point, and if you expend no effort trying to understand what's written, what's the point in responding? Why bother? Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 24, 2006 In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisarg adatta writes: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:19:05 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > suggest it > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures the > > awareness of > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. The > > dismissal > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " that > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be any > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > Marc > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents a > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > and yet this > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by > ignoring the > > effort that ego already is. > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are not > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > present doing. > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > nonintegrous split > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, and > the > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > effort to hold it > > in place. > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > that confronting > > effort is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no solution for the characters within a dream. > > Effortlessness is the rusult of the Understanding not its cause. > > > > toombaru yes.....Effortlessness is the result of...... " whatever " .... agreed... Marc As opposed to what? Something that is not the result of " whatever " ? If effortlessness results from understanding, how does this understanding come about? Perhaps by imagining there is no need to understand? Does that lead to understanding or is that just another " dream " that one eventually stops? Here's an idea; What if the mind needs to exhaust all possibilities before it stops, but some folks want to bypass that process and go directly to stop? What if that just amounts to more resistance, kind of a side excursion until it's finally realized it's just more resistance to what needs to occur before understanding can happen? Would that suck? Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 2006 In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:59:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:56:36 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:17:16 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > suggest it > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures > the > > awareness of > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. > The > > dismissal > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " > that > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be > any > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > Marc > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents > a > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > and yet this > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by > ignoring the > > effort that ego already is. > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are > not > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > present doing. > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > nonintegrous split > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, > and the > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > effort to hold it > > in place. > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > that confronting > > effort is. > > > this your words seem to take some effort.....to write..... > your mind is busy to write down this your " view " ....with some > effort.... > > isn't it?... > > so....i think it's just (another) dream...this " effortlessness " .... > > Marc > > > > Of course! That's the point, and if you expend no effort trying to > understand what's written, what's the point in responding? Why bother? > > Phil > > > lol ok....let's try to understand what you want to express......means, switch the mind on.... you write: " There is a truth underlying the effort of ego " sure....how you can have a dream during night....without sleeping? the truth underlying the (effort of) ego....is the connection to the past.....and so also to the related future......depending the memory an ego-mind can't have any deep calmness.....because this your described " underlying truth " don't give much free space and time......for an ego-mind....trying to get liberation the real nature of everything is already liberation...... it seem that you want to tell that there should be a good common work .....of both......of the truth....and the ego..... it seem that you try to remain having an ego-mind...... this look like there is a dream remaining in your mind...... a dream that you had last night...... let it go...... let the ego-mind.....go.... give up this your concepts of " underlyings truth " and....and.... Marc Where is the choice to let it go? You speak to a mind/ego and you tell it to let itself go. Do you imagine that this is something that mind/ego is able to accomplish even if it is willing? This isn't a choice for the one being spoken to, nor is it a choice for the one speaking. However, greater understanding and awareness leads to changes in the patterns of said mind/ego, but of course there must be the willingness to look. I realize that's not a popular approach on this list, but to me, ignoring ego is a very convenient excuse for ego to not look at itself, and so perhaps you'll forgive my suspicion. Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:17:16 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > suggest it > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures > the > > awareness of > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. > The > > dismissal > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the awareness " .....that > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " > that > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming to > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be > any > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or a > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > Marc > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this presents > a > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > and yet this > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished by > ignoring the > > effort that ego already is. > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender are > not > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > present doing. > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > nonintegrous split > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, > and the > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > effort to hold it > > in place. > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is occurring. > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > that confronting > > effort is. > > > this your words seem to take some effort.....to write..... > your mind is busy to write down this your " view " ....with some > effort.... > > isn't it?... > > so....i think it's just (another) dream...this " effortlessness " .... > > Marc > > > > Of course! That's the point, and if you expend no effort trying to > understand what's written, what's the point in responding? Why bother? > > Phil > > > lol ok....let's try to understand what you want to express......means, switch the mind on.... you write: " There is a truth underlying the effort of ego " sure....how you can have a dream during night....without sleeping? the truth underlying the (effort of) ego....is the connection to the past.....and so also to the related future......depending the memory an ego-mind can't have any deep calmness.....because this your described " underlying truth " don't give much free space and time......for an ego-mind....trying to get liberation the real nature of everything is already liberation...... it seem that you want to tell that there should be a good common work .....of both......of the truth....and the ego..... it seem that you try to remain having an ego-mind...... this look like there is a dream remaining in your mind...... a dream that you had last night...... let it go...... let the ego-mind.....go.... give up this your concepts of " underlyings truth " and....and.... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisarg > adatta writes: > > Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:19:05 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > > suggest it > > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures > the > > > awareness of > > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. > The > > > dismissal > > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the > awareness " .....that > > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " > that > > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming > to > > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be > any > > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or > a > > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this > presents a > > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > > and yet this > > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished > by > > ignoring the > > > effort that ego already is. > > > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender > are not > > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > > present doing. > > > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > > nonintegrous split > > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, > and > > the > > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > > effort to hold it > > > in place. > > > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is > occurring. > > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > > that confronting > > > effort is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no solution for the characters within a dream. > > > > Effortlessness is the rusult of the Understanding not its cause. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > yes.....Effortlessness is the result of...... " whatever " .... > > agreed... > > Marc > > > > As opposed to what? Something that is not the result of " whatever " ? > If effortlessness results from understanding, how does this understanding > come about? Perhaps by imagining there is no need to understand? Does that lead > to understanding or is that just another " dream " that one eventually stops? > > Here's an idea; What if the mind needs to exhaust all possibilities before > it stops, but some folks want to bypass that process and go directly to stop? > What if that just amounts to more resistance, kind of a side excursion until > it's finally realized it's just more resistance to what needs to occur before > understanding can happen? Would that suck? > > Phil > > first, of course.....you need " understanding " for Oneness of perception you look in the mirror....you see (whole of) yourself you look the world....you see (whole of) yourself to percieve and feel .....by your whole being....this Oneness.....is what is necessary to " come over " slowly this remaining ego-mind.... there are many different practice to get this " inner transformations " ..... i think i don't need to explain you about the endless techniques existing......to calm down the mind.....and to " know " slowly the real Self ok...for some rare exceptions of people......there is no need of any " practice " or " effort " or " understanding " ....or whatever....... to " experience and understand " the truth about real Self it seem that, for some reason......you are still in this process of " inner transformations " ...... you are extremely busy still with the mind....trying to just ....simply live.....the truth....one day there are indeed " no missions " or other nice plans and projects to fullfill in life.........for a spiritual heart the only mission there Is......is to just be yourSelf.....one day..... even if you still don't understand...that there is Nothing else realy to do you think that the mind should " exhaust all possibilities " .....before it stop..... i think it's clear that mind need some time to slow down...... to catch " Oneness " ...and so, the real Self it's " mission impossible " to stop the mind.....just like that i wrote you in another message, i think, that the mind is related to past and future....... some call this connections and limitations the effect of Karma..... what has surely more influence than intellect....is Love if you can feel real Love.....for " existence " ....for " God " .....for " Oneness " ....for real Self.........there are mountains of inner transformations happening...... wish you to be filled up with endless Love....... burning out Karma...... and have a quite mind.... and so....percieve your real Self.....as an infinie nothingness....and emptyness........ writing and reading through this instrument of body-mind-intellect.... in communication with OneSelf Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:59:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:56:36 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:17:16 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I > didn't > > > suggest it > > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego > obscures > > the > > > awareness of > > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. > > The > > > dismissal > > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the > awareness " .....that > > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " > > that > > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming > to > > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be > > any > > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until > death...... > > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a > cat....or a > > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to > dream.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this > presents > > a > > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is > effortlessness, > > and yet this > > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished > by > > ignoring the > > > effort that ego already is. > > > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender > are > > not > > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > > present doing. > > > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > > nonintegrous split > > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, > > and the > > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > > effort to hold it > > > in place. > > > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is > occurring. > > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be > noticed > > that confronting > > > effort is. > > > > > > this your words seem to take some effort.....to write..... > > your mind is busy to write down this your " view " ....with some > > effort.... > > > > isn't it?... > > > > so....i think it's just (another) dream...this " effortlessness " .... > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Of course! That's the point, and if you expend no effort trying to > > understand what's written, what's the point in responding? Why > bother? > > > > Phil > > > > > > > lol > > ok....let's try to understand what you want to express......means, > switch the mind on.... > > you write: > " There is a truth underlying the effort of ego " > > sure....how you can have a dream during night....without sleeping? > > the truth underlying the (effort of) ego....is the connection to the > past.....and so also to the related future......depending the memory > > an ego-mind can't have any deep calmness.....because this your > described " underlying truth " don't give much free space and > time......for an ego-mind....trying to get liberation > > the real nature of everything is already liberation...... > > it seem that you want to tell that there should be a good common > work .....of both......of the truth....and the ego..... > > it seem that you try to remain having an ego-mind...... > > this look like there is a dream remaining in your mind...... > a dream that you had last night...... > > let it go...... > > let the ego-mind.....go.... > > give up this your concepts of " underlyings truth " and....and.... > > Marc > > > > Where is the choice to let it go? You speak to a mind/ego and you tell it to > let itself go. Do you imagine that this is something that mind/ego is able to > accomplish even if it is willing? This isn't a choice for the one being > spoken to, nor is it a choice for the one speaking. However, greater > understanding and awareness leads to changes in the patterns of said mind/ego, but of > course there must be the willingness to look. I realize that's not a popular > approach on this list, but to me, ignoring ego is a very convenient excuse for > ego to not look at itself, and so perhaps you'll forgive my suspicion. > > Phil > yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which happened in here) the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... there are as many path and ways....as there are people so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other tasks and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working in the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... thats ok...... i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and also here on the list...... there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be ego- mind When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good question..... surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list are following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... it's about Your perception........which let appear All This......as a dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no more " others " who need still realisation....appearing this would make Oneness appear to be absurd Oneness is Oneness Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 26, 2006 In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:16:41 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/2006 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisarg > adatta writes: > > Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:19:05 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:03:46 -0000 > > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the fiction can't 'hear' an inner voice. I didn't > > > suggest it > > > > could. What I did suggest is that the illusion of ego obscures > the > > > awareness of > > > > Reality, and so perhaps this illusion shouldn't be dismissed. > The > > > dismissal > > > > is just another way to hold it in place. > > > > > > > > > > > yes....... " the illusion of An ego obscures the > awareness " .....that > > > what i wanted to tell above, yes... > > > > > > i mean that, as long there is illusion of an ego....of being > > > an " individual and seperated " entity....there can't be awareness > > > > > > awareness happen....when this ego-mind..... " open " the heart and > > > mind.......to get out of this limitations of being..... > > > > > > to get out of illusion.... > > > > > > it's a dangerous discussion....because it's not that easy.... > > > a great ego-mind could catch this words in here.....and " think " > that > > > he/she has no ego.....or that the great ego he/she is dreaming > to > > > be......is just perfect...... > > > > > > the only possible way to get out of illusion....is to " wake up " > > > > > > you talk about this " dismissed of... " .... > > > if i understand your words......you mean that there shoudn't be > any > > > effort to leave an " non-existing " ego.....kind of...? > > > > > > yes.....it's possible.....if there is no effort until death...... > > > this " attitude " would be the same as the attitude of a cat....or > a > > > dog....or whatever being.....having enough " food " ....to dream.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > There should not be any effort. Ego IS effort, and so this > presents a > > > dilemma for all apparent individuals. The goal is effortlessness, > > and yet this > > > cannot be accomplished with effort, and is also not accomplished > by > > ignoring the > > > effort that ego already is. > > > > > > Mind is a 'doing' thing. Effortlessness, acceptance, surrender > are not > > > things that can be done, but rather the 'undoing' of the already > > present doing. > > > > > > There is a truth underlying the effort of ego. There is a > > nonintegrous split > > > mind present, one half diligently affirming it's effortlessness, > and > > the > > > other half diligently reinforcing it's illusory identity in an > > effort to hold it > > > in place. > > > > > > Perhaps the 'solution' is simply to notice that this is > occurring. > > > Ultimately, this noticing is not an effort, but it can be noticed > > that confronting > > > effort is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no solution for the characters within a dream. > > > > Effortlessness is the rusult of the Understanding not its cause. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > yes.....Effortlessness is the result of...... " whatever " .... > > agreed... > > Marc > > > > As opposed to what? Something that is not the result of " whatever " ? > If effortlessness results from understanding, how does this understanding > come about? Perhaps by imagining there is no need to understand? Does that lead > to understanding or is that just another " dream " that one eventually stops? > > Here's an idea; What if the mind needs to exhaust all possibilities before > it stops, but some folks want to bypass that process and go directly to stop? > What if that just amounts to more resistance, kind of a side excursion until > it's finally realized it's just more resistance to what needs to occur before > understanding can happen? Would that suck? > > Phil > > first, of course.....you need " understanding " for Oneness of perception you look in the mirror....you see (whole of) yourself you look the world....you see (whole of) yourself to percieve and feel .....by your whole being....this Oneness.....is what is necessary to " come over " slowly this remaining ego-mind.... there are many different practice to get this " inner transformations " ..... i think i don't need to explain you about the endless techniques existing......to calm down the mind.....and to " know " slowly the real Self ok...for some rare exceptions of people......there is no need of any " practice " or " effort " or " understanding " ....or whatever....... to " experience and understand " the truth about real Self it seem that, for some reason......you are still in this process of " inner transformations " ...... you are extremely busy still with the mind....trying to just ....simply live.....the truth....one day there are indeed " no missions " or other nice plans and projects to fullfill in life.........for a spiritual heart the only mission there Is......is to just be yourSelf.....one day..... even if you still don't understand...that there is Nothing else realy to do you think that the mind should " exhaust all possibilities " .....before it stop..... i think it's clear that mind need some time to slow down...... to catch " Oneness " ...and so, the real Self it's " mission impossible " to stop the mind.....just like that i wrote you in another message, i think, that the mind is related to past and future....... some call this connections and limitations the effect of Karma..... what has surely more influence than intellect....is Love if you can feel real Love.....for " existence " ....for " God " .....for " Oneness " ....for real Self.........there are mountains of inner transformations happening...... wish you to be filled up with endless Love....... burning out Karma...... and have a quite mind.... and so....percieve your real Self.....as an infinie nothingness....and emptyness........ writing and reading through this instrument of body-mind-intellect.... in communication with OneSelf Marc Thanks for the kind wishes. Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 26, 2006 In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:15 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which happened in here) the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... there are as many path and ways....as there are people so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other tasks and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working in the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... thats ok...... i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and also here on the list...... there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be ego- mind When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good question..... surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list are following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... it's about Your perception........which let appear All This......as a dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no more " others " who need still realisation....appearing this would make Oneness appear to be absurd Oneness is Oneness Marc Yes, a reflection, always. A mirror of self, always. I AM talking to myself, and if it seems odd, it's only because to you, it has no value, and this is fine and isn't struggled with. The degree to which I am unconcerned about the paths followed by those on this list would make me appear shameful in the eyes of many, but it's not a lack of caring, it's a knowing that it is perfect just as it is. My work is here, in the strange threads of my own creative perception. Do you think I would be challenging you if I wasn't questioning myself? Do you think I'm not interested in what I, in the form of Marc, have to say about that? I'm always listening, perhaps more deeply than can be imagined. I'm not looking for answers to questions, and so I don't ask them. I'm looking for awareness, and this isn't happening in the lines of words, but between the lines, behind the mind. Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:15 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > > > yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which > happened in here) > > the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... > > there are as many path and ways....as there are people > > so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other tasks > and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day > > what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working in > the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past > > you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a > book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... > > thats ok...... > > i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and also > here on the list...... > > there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... > gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently > > you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be ego- > mind > > When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good > question..... > surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... > > no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance > > you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list are > following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... > > it's about Your perception........which let appear All This......as a > dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... > > when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no > more " others " who need still realisation....appearing > > this would make Oneness appear to be absurd > > Oneness is Oneness > > Marc > > > > Yes, a reflection, always. A mirror of self, always. I AM talking to myself, > and if it seems odd, it's only because to you, it has no value, and this is > fine and isn't struggled with. The degree to which I am unconcerned about the > paths followed by those on this list would make me appear shameful in the > eyes of many, but it's not a lack of caring, it's a knowing that it is perfect > just as it is. if everything is " perfect, just as it is " .....why writing so many messages......to confirm, again, and again.....that everything is perfect? it's true that there is a cause of everything what (appear to) happen..... sometimes, this cause is just simple....ignorance..... there is no " God " " who " could cause troubles.....but there is ignorance causing all the time....and for some ego-minds.....whole life-long troubles if you are " behind mind " ....passed the " identification with body-mind- intellect " ....then ok, ....it's not possible to exchange " knowledge " .....with " ignorance " ....again.... if so....then i understand your perception and " view " ....about... perfection My work is here, in the strange threads of my own creative > perception. Do you think I would be challenging you if I wasn't questioning > myself? yes....i see....and accept your words this, now, ....this exchange of words....personally....is a writing in awareness of Self....... signing...in all this words......the " entrence-ticket " of " the now " ...... Do you think I'm not interested in what I, in the form of Marc, have to > say about that? I'm always listening, perhaps more deeply than can be > imagined. I'm not looking for answers to questions, and so I don't ask them. I'm > looking for awareness, and this isn't happening in the lines of words, but > between the lines, behind the mind. if you have awareness for Self....yes, whatever you listen to.... is listening to yourself....kind of and then, it happen....that one can " differentiate " more and more......bewteen Self...and Non-Self wish a good day....filled up with calmness Marc > Phil > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2006 In a message dated 4/26/2006 1:59:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:03:07 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:15 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > > > yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which > happened in here) > > the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... > > there are as many path and ways....as there are people > > so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other tasks > and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day > > what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working in > the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past > > you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a > book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... > > thats ok...... > > i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and also > here on the list...... > > there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... > gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently > > you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be ego- > mind > > When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good > question..... > surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... > > no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance > > you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list are > following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... > > it's about Your perception........which let appear All This......as a > dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... > > when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no > more " others " who need still realisation....appearing > > this would make Oneness appear to be absurd > > Oneness is Oneness > > Marc > > > > Yes, a reflection, always. A mirror of self, always. I AM talking to myself, > and if it seems odd, it's only because to you, it has no value, and this is > fine and isn't struggled with. The degree to which I am unconcerned about the > paths followed by those on this list would make me appear shameful in the > eyes of many, but it's not a lack of caring, it's a knowing that it is perfect > just as it is. if everything is " perfect, just as it is " .....why writing so many messages......to confirm, again, and again.....that everything is perfect? Phil: Oh, it's just that perfection is not static, but wonderfully dynamic. Perfection is not a stagnant pond that would become imperfect with change and movement, but rather a flowing river; the illusion of change that is experience. it's true that there is a cause of everything what (appear to) happen..... sometimes, this cause is just simple....ignorance..... there is no " God " " who " could cause troubles.....but there is ignorance causing all the time....and for some ego-minds.....whole life-long troubles if you are " behind mind " ....passed the " identification with body-mind- intellect " ....then ok, ....it's not possible to exchange " knowledge " .....with " ignorance " ....again.... if so....then i understand your perception and " view " ....about... perfection My work is here, in the strange threads of my own creative > perception. Do you think I would be challenging you if I wasn't questioning > myself? yes....i see....and accept your words this, now, ....this exchange of words....personally....is a writing in awareness of Self....... signing...in all this words......the " entrence-ticket " of " the now " ...... Do you think I'm not interested in what I, in the form of Marc, have to > say about that? I'm always listening, perhaps more deeply than can be > imagined. I'm not looking for answers to questions, and so I don't ask them. I'm > looking for awareness, and this isn't happening in the lines of words, but > between the lines, behind the mind. if you have awareness for Self....yes, whatever you listen to.... is listening to yourself....kind of and then, it happen....that one can " differentiate " more and more......bewteen Self...and Non-Self wish a good day....filled up with calmness Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > In a message dated 4/26/2006 1:59:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:03:07 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:15 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which > > happened in here) > > > > the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... > > > > there are as many path and ways....as there are people > > > > so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other > tasks > > and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day > > > > what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working > in > > the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past > > > > you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a > > book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... > > > > thats ok...... > > > > i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and > also > > here on the list...... > > > > there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... > > gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently > > > > you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be > ego- > > mind > > > > When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good > > question..... > > surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... > > > > no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance > > > > you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list > are > > following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... > > > > it's about Your perception........which let appear All > This......as a > > dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... > > > > when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no > > more " others " who need still realisation....appearing > > > > this would make Oneness appear to be absurd > > > > Oneness is Oneness > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Yes, a reflection, always. A mirror of self, always. I AM talking > to myself, > > and if it seems odd, it's only because to you, it has no value, > and this is > > fine and isn't struggled with. The degree to which I am > unconcerned about the > > paths followed by those on this list would make me appear shameful > in the > > eyes of many, but it's not a lack of caring, it's a knowing that > it is perfect > > just as it is. > > if everything is " perfect, just as it is " .....why writing so many > messages......to confirm, again, and again.....that everything is > perfect? > > > Phil: Oh, it's just that perfection is not static, but wonderfully dynamic. > Perfection is not a stagnant pond that would become imperfect with change and > movement, but rather a flowing river; the illusion of change that is > experience. nice concept i think that everything concerning " wonderfully dynamic " is " dream " concerned.... there is no question about...if a dream could be " perfect " or not... dream is dream it's about to be aware....perfectly...about The dream Marc > > it's true that there is a cause of everything what (appear to) > happen..... > > sometimes, this cause is just simple....ignorance..... > > there is no " God " " who " could cause troubles.....but there is > ignorance causing all the time....and for some ego-minds.....whole > life-long troubles > > if you are " behind mind " ....passed the " identification with body- mind- > intellect " ....then ok, ....it's not possible to > exchange " knowledge " .....with " ignorance " ....again.... > > if so....then i understand your perception and " view " ....about... > perfection > > My work is here, in the strange threads of my own creative > > perception. Do you think I would be challenging you if I wasn't > questioning > > myself? > > yes....i see....and accept your words > > this, now, ....this exchange of words....personally....is a writing > in awareness of Self....... > signing...in all this words......the " entrence-ticket " of " the > now " ...... > > Do you think I'm not interested in what I, in the form of Marc, have > to > > say about that? I'm always listening, perhaps more deeply than can > be > > imagined. I'm not looking for answers to questions, and so I don't > ask them. I'm > > looking for awareness, and this isn't happening in the lines of > words, but > > between the lines, behind the mind. > > if you have awareness for Self....yes, whatever you listen to.... > is listening to yourself....kind of > > and then, it happen....that one can " differentiate " more and > more......bewteen Self...and Non-Self > > wish a good day....filled up with calmness > > Marc > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 29, 2006 In a message dated 4/28/2006 3:33:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:24:32 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: The True Guru Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > In a message dated 4/26/2006 1:59:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:03:07 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: The True Guru > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:54:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:15 -0000 > > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> > > Re: The True Guru > > > > > > > > yes.....there is no " free choice " .....(another discussion which > > happened in here) > > > > the only free choice is the be OneSelf..... > > > > there are as many path and ways....as there are people > > > > so everybody is having another path.....has to fullfill other > tasks > > and plans......that the mind expect to realise one day > > > > what the mind expected to realise in the past....is still working > in > > the mind.......one can't " stop this " ......expectations of the past > > > > you don't ignore your ego-mind....therefore you are writing a > > book....and fullfill a long wished plan.... > > > > thats ok...... > > > > i think everybody fullfill some ideas and plans in life.....and > also > > here on the list...... > > > > there is nobody ever who could " ignore " the ego-mind...... > > gave you some explanations and views concerning this recently > > > > you are as long ego-mind ...as you are dreaming to (have an) be > ego- > > mind > > > > When this dream is being discovered as a dream.....?....is a good > > question..... > > surely this is discovered individually......on individual path..... > > > > no way to " pass " this realisation in living still in ignorance > > > > you shouldn't care too much about the path " others " on the list > are > > following.......and if they " ignore " something....or not.... > > > > it's about Your perception........which let appear All > This......as a > > dream only.........or fiction.....or reflection of yourSelf...... > > > > when Your perception get realisation.....then there are no > > more " others " who need still realisation....appearing > > > > this would make Oneness appear to be absurd > > > > Oneness is Oneness > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Yes, a reflection, always. A mirror of self, always. I AM talking > to myself, > > and if it seems odd, it's only because to you, it has no value, > and this is > > fine and isn't struggled with. The degree to which I am > unconcerned about the > > paths followed by those on this list would make me appear shameful > in the > > eyes of many, but it's not a lack of caring, it's a knowing that > it is perfect > > just as it is. > > if everything is " perfect, just as it is " .....why writing so many > messages......to confirm, again, and again.....that everything is > perfect? > > > Phil: Oh, it's just that perfection is not static, but wonderfully dynamic. > Perfection is not a stagnant pond that would become imperfect with change and > movement, but rather a flowing river; the illusion of change that is > experience. nice concept i think that everything concerning " wonderfully dynamic " is " dream " concerned.... there is no question about...if a dream could be " perfect " or not... dream is dream it's about to be aware....perfectly...about The dream Marc Nice concept I was responding to your question as to why do anything if the dream is perfect. That called for a concept. Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
