Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly fulfilled in > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will always be > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will always be > certain. > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow you here, > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live a lukewarm > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps has a > passion. > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the clubs lol. The > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks into the > > > >now. > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for enlightenment > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear need such > > > >crap. > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already did move from > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? You got it > > > all. > > > > > > Greetings > > > Stefan > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching for it. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > Hi Al, > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace would be its > result? > > > > anna > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > al. You will.......only if the entire universe gives you the nod. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM Re: New form of desire Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > Re: New form of desire > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly fulfilled in > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will always be > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will always be certain. > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow you here, > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live a lukewarm > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps has a passion. > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the clubs lol. The > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks into the > > >now. > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for enlightenment > > with all your passion. > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear need such > > >crap. > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already did move from > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? You got it > > all. > > > > Greetings > > Stefan > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching for it. > > al. > > > > > > ** > Hi Al, > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace would be its result? > > anna > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. al. Al, then what is holding back your passion? I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of com-passionate, that you already know.. love, anna ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2005 > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > al. > > > > > Al, >Q: then what is holding back your passion? A: The idea that an entity has something called " passion " and the thinking that this concept can be either held on to of let go of.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > > > Why not desire to remove the desire to reconfigure your desire? > > > > toombaru > > > > Cut to the chase: Who is it that desires? That appears to be the > > central issue. No? > > > > fuzzie wuzzie > > > The question: " Who is it that desires? " assumes that there is a who. > > It is circular in that the one who desires. .....is the one asking. > > It is a meaningless question. > > As is " Who am I? " > > toombaru " Who? " is not so much an assumption as it is an unknown. Hence, the enquiry. Who knows? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM > Re: New form of desire > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly fulfilled in > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will always be > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will always be > certain. > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow you here, > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live a lukewarm > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps has a > passion. > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the clubs lol. The > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks into the > > > >now. > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for enlightenment > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear need such > > > >crap. > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already did move from > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? You got it > > > all. > > > > > > Greetings > > > Stefan > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching for it. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > Hi Al, > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace would be its > result? > > > > anna > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > al. > > > > > Al, > then what is holding back your passion? > > I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of com-passionate, that > you already know.. > > love, > anna > > Fear is holding passion back. Fear is there to balance desires. Without fear the mind would spin away into its desires which are always only the past, and would become stuck there. Fear drives the mind back into the present moment. Passion arises when fear and desire fuses, are dissolved into each other. Passion is aware of the present moment, while desires are only aware of the future. Obviously this is only a theory since I do not experience passion in the present moment. But the theory is true in that we really do lose awareness of the present moment when we dwell too much in the future and in our desires. And also that fear somehow is an alarm clock making us more aware of what is happening in the now. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > wrote: > > > > > > Why not desire to remove the desire to reconfigure your desire? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Cut to the chase: Who is it that desires? That appears to be the > > > central issue. No? > > > > > > fuzzie wuzzie > > > > > > The question: " Who is it that desires? " assumes that there is a who. > > > > It is circular in that the one who desires. .....is the one asking. > > > > It is a meaningless question. > > > > As is " Who am I? " > > > > toombaru > > > " Who? " is not so much an assumption as it is an unknown. Hence, the > enquiry. > > Who knows? Again.......a question assumes the reality of the who...albeit unknown. What if.........what if.......there were no who. (he name be Nowho.) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Cut to the chase: Who is it that desires? That appears to be the > > > > central issue. No? > > > > > > > > fuzzie wuzzie > > > > > > > > > The question: " Who is it that desires? " assumes that there is a who. > > > > > > It is circular in that the one who desires. .....is the one asking. > > > > > > It is a meaningless question. > > > > > > As is " Who am I? " > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > " Who? " is not so much an assumption as it is an unknown. Hence, the > > enquiry. > > > > Who knows? > > fuzzie wuzzie > > Again.......a question assumes the reality of the who...albeit unknown. > > > What if.........what if.......there were no who. > > > > > (he name be Nowho.) > > > > toombaru The question does not assume the reality of the who. It undermines it. " Who are you? " (or, " Who am I? " ) does not assume the reality of a person-subject. It calls it into question, into doubt. There is no who, no separative, individual self. All is as it is. Simple. Perfect. Absolute. Let it be. Enjoy. fuzzie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > > anders_lindman > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly > fulfilled in > > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will > always be > > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will always be > > certain. > > > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow you > here, > > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live a > lukewarm > > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps has a > > passion. > > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the clubs > lol. The > > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks > into the > > > > >now. > > > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for > enlightenment > > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear need > such > > > > >crap. > > > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already did > move from > > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? You > got it > > > > all. > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching for it. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > Hi Al, > > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace would be its > > result? > > > > > > anna > > > > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > Al, > > then what is holding back your passion? > > > > I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of > com-passionate, that > > you already know.. > > > > love, > > anna > > > > > > Fear is holding passion back. Fear is there to balance desires. > Without fear the mind would spin away into its desires which are > always only the past, and would become stuck there. Fear drives the > mind back into the present moment. Passion arises when fear and desire > fuses, are dissolved into each other. Passion is aware of the present > moment, while desires are only aware of the future. > > Obviously this is only a theory since I do not experience passion in > the present moment. But the theory is true in that we really do lose > awareness of the present moment when we dwell too much in the future > and in our desires. And also that fear somehow is an alarm clock > making us more aware of what is happening in the now. > > al. ** Those are some pretty dismal speculations, Al. They are merely constructions, which are self-dissolving. Theories, attributes and qualities of *now* are irrelevant. They're all cortical, after-the-fact. There's no 'mind' in *now.* Mind is that psychological time in which states and objects, and subjects which supposedly observe/know/experience them, are brought in and assembled. Mind equals its constructions, and vice-versa. There's nothing ACTUAL in those bubbles of perception. Pop, pop, POP....go the bubbles!! (including any popping- " watcher " bubble) Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > - > > > anders_lindman > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > anders_lindman > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > <s.petersilge@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly > > fulfilled in > > > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will > > always be > > > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will > always be > > > certain. > > > > > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow > you > > here, > > > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live > a > > lukewarm > > > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps > has a > > > passion. > > > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the > clubs > > lol. The > > > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks > > into the > > > > > >now. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for > > enlightenment > > > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear > need > > such > > > > > >crap. > > > > > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already > did > > move from > > > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? > You > > got it > > > > > all. > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching > for it. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > Hi Al, > > > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace > would be its > > > result? > > > > > > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > then what is holding back your passion? > > > > > > I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of > > com-passionate, that > > > you already know.. > > > > > > love, > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > Fear is holding passion back. Fear is there to balance desires. > > Without fear the mind would spin away into its desires which are > > always only the past, and would become stuck there. Fear drives the > > mind back into the present moment. Passion arises when fear and > desire > > fuses, are dissolved into each other. Passion is aware of the > present > > moment, while desires are only aware of the future. > > > > Obviously this is only a theory since I do not experience passion > in > > the present moment. But the theory is true in that we really do > lose > > awareness of the present moment when we dwell too much in the > future > > and in our desires. And also that fear somehow is an alarm clock > > making us more aware of what is happening in the now. > > > > al. > > ** Those are some pretty dismal speculations, Al. > They are merely constructions, which are self-dissolving. > Theories, attributes and qualities of *now* are irrelevant. > They're all cortical, after-the-fact. > > There's no 'mind' in *now.* Mind is that psychological time in > which > states and objects, and subjects which supposedly > observe/know/experience them, are brought in and assembled. > Mind equals its constructions, and vice-versa. There's nothing > ACTUAL in those bubbles of perception. > > Pop, pop, POP....go the bubbles!! > > (including any popping- " watcher " bubble) > > Ken Yes, the mind has a vast collection of possessions to play with, and out of this heap a self is formed. With self-observation one can observe how the self operates. There is reality to these possessions, such as knowledge, personal opinions, self-image, prestige, relationships, material possessions, and so on. But there is a subtle trick the mind does here: it divides all the content in the mind into " mine " and " not mine " . For example, the money on my bank account is " my money " , and Bill Gates' money is " not my money " . From a practical point of view of course this is true. I cannot spend Bill gates' money and buy myself an Aston Martin. But the mind makes a solid " self " out of the mind's divided content. That solid self is nothing but a bubble. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > anders_lindman > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM > > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > anders_lindman > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > > <s.petersilge@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire instantly > > > fulfilled in > > > > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we will > > > always be > > > > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will > > always be > > > > certain. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will follow > > you > > > here, > > > > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They live > > a > > > lukewarm > > > > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects stamps > > has a > > > > passion. > > > > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the > > clubs > > > lol. The > > > > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion looks > > > into the > > > > > > >now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go for > > > enlightenment > > > > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would never > > > > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in fear > > need > > > such > > > > > > >crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You already > > did > > > move from > > > > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching for? > > You > > > got it > > > > > > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop searching > > for it. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace > > would be its > > > > result? > > > > > > > > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > > then what is holding back your passion? > > > > > > > > I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of > > > com-passionate, that > > > > you already know.. > > > > > > > > love, > > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fear is holding passion back. Fear is there to balance desires. > > > Without fear the mind would spin away into its desires which are > > > always only the past, and would become stuck there. Fear drives the > > > mind back into the present moment. Passion arises when fear and > > desire > > > fuses, are dissolved into each other. Passion is aware of the > > present > > > moment, while desires are only aware of the future. > > > > > > Obviously this is only a theory since I do not experience passion > > in > > > the present moment. But the theory is true in that we really do > > lose > > > awareness of the present moment when we dwell too much in the > > future > > > and in our desires. And also that fear somehow is an alarm clock > > > making us more aware of what is happening in the now. > > > > > > al. > > > > ** Those are some pretty dismal speculations, Al. > > They are merely constructions, which are self-dissolving. > > Theories, attributes and qualities of *now* are irrelevant. > > They're all cortical, after-the-fact. > > > > There's no 'mind' in *now.* Mind is that psychological time in > > which > > states and objects, and subjects which supposedly > > observe/know/experience them, are brought in and assembled. > > Mind equals its constructions, and vice-versa. There's nothing > > ACTUAL in those bubbles of perception. > > > > Pop, pop, POP....go the bubbles!! > > > > (including any popping- " watcher " bubble) > > > > Ken > > Yes, the mind has a vast collection of possessions to play with, and > out of this heap a self is formed. With self-observation one can > observe how the self operates. There is reality to these possessions, > such as knowledge, personal opinions, self-image, prestige, > relationships, material possessions, and so on. But there is a subtle > trick the mind does here: it divides all the content in the mind into > " mine " and " not mine " . For example, the money on my bank account is > " my money " , and Bill Gates' money is " not my money " . From a practical > point of view of course this is true. I cannot spend Bill gates' money > and buy myself an Aston Martin. But the mind makes a solid " self " out > of the mind's divided content. That solid self is nothing but a bubble. > > al. ** Yup. And the mind has to separate 'itself' from its bubbles in order to maintain a belief in them. Endless tricks. :=) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > anders_lindman > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 7:22 PM > > > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " > <nli10u@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > anders_lindman > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:25 PM > > > > > > Re: New form of desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > > > <s.petersilge@c...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >When fear and desire are fused into one > > > > > > > >feeling they become passion which is desire > instantly > > > > fulfilled in > > > > > > > >the present moment. When we act out of desires we > will > > > > always be > > > > > > > >uncertain, but when we act out of passion we will > > > always be > > > > > certain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, a great way to put it. I guess not many will > follow > > > you > > > > here, > > > > > > > because they simply do not experience passion. They > live > > > a > > > > lukewarm > > > > > > > life, you know. They think someone who collects > stamps > > > has a > > > > > passion. > > > > > > > Or someone who creates vedantic essays for the > > > clubs > > > > lol. The > > > > > > > heroes have become rare on this planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Desires are looking into the future, while passion > looks > > > > into the > > > > > > > >now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you know what I just thought, why dont you go > for > > > > enlightenment > > > > > > > with all your passion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If people moved from desire to passion they would > never > > > > > > > >need any health insurances. Only people living in > fear > > > need > > > > such > > > > > > > >crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, this sounds like the voice of a hero. You > already > > > did > > > > move from > > > > > > > desire to passion. So, what are you still searching > for? > > > You > > > > got it > > > > > > > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no peace. When I have peace I can stop > searching > > > for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > What if you allow that passion to serve you and peace > > > would be its > > > > > result? > > > > > > > > > > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First passion has to come. Then I can allow it. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > > > then what is holding back your passion? > > > > > > > > > > I see you as a very passionate being, the other half of > > > > com-passionate, that > > > > > you already know.. > > > > > > > > > > love, > > > > > anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fear is holding passion back. Fear is there to balance desires. > > > > Without fear the mind would spin away into its desires which > are > > > > always only the past, and would become stuck there. Fear > drives the > > > > mind back into the present moment. Passion arises when fear > and > > > desire > > > > fuses, are dissolved into each other. Passion is aware of the > > > present > > > > moment, while desires are only aware of the future. > > > > > > > > Obviously this is only a theory since I do not experience > passion > > > in > > > > the present moment. But the theory is true in that we really > do > > > lose > > > > awareness of the present moment when we dwell too much in the > > > future > > > > and in our desires. And also that fear somehow is an alarm > clock > > > > making us more aware of what is happening in the now. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > ** Those are some pretty dismal speculations, Al. > > > They are merely constructions, which are self-dissolving. > > > Theories, attributes and qualities of *now* are irrelevant. > > > They're all cortical, after-the-fact. > > > > > > There's no 'mind' in *now.* Mind is that psychological time > in > > > which > > > states and objects, and subjects which supposedly > > > observe/know/experience them, are brought in and assembled. > > > Mind equals its constructions, and vice-versa. There's > nothing > > > ACTUAL in those bubbles of perception. > > > > > > Pop, pop, POP....go the bubbles!! > > > > > > (including any popping- " watcher " bubble) > > > > > > Ken > > > > Yes, the mind has a vast collection of possessions to play with, > and > > out of this heap a self is formed. With self-observation one can > > observe how the self operates. There is reality to these > possessions, > > such as knowledge, personal opinions, self-image, prestige, > > relationships, material possessions, and so on. But there is a > subtle > > trick the mind does here: it divides all the content in the mind > into > > " mine " and " not mine " . For example, the money on my bank account > is > > " my money " , and Bill Gates' money is " not my money " . From a > practical > > point of view of course this is true. I cannot spend Bill gates' > money > > and buy myself an Aston Martin. But the mind makes a solid " self " > out > > of the mind's divided content. That solid self is nothing but a > bubble. > > > > al. > > ** Yup. > > And the mind has to separate 'itself' from its bubbles > in order to maintain a belief in them. > > Endless tricks. :=) Ah yes! I didn't think of that. Tricky indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Cut to the chase: Who is it that desires? That appears to be the > > > > > central issue. No? > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie wuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > The question: " Who is it that desires? " assumes that there is a > who. > > > > > > > > It is circular in that the one who desires. .....is the one asking. > > > > > > > > It is a meaningless question. > > > > > > > > As is " Who am I? " > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > " Who? " is not so much an assumption as it is an unknown. Hence, the > > > enquiry. > > > > > > Who knows? > > > > fuzzie wuzzie > > > > > Again.......a question assumes the reality of the who...albeit unknown. > > > > > > What if.........what if.......there were no who. > > > > > > > > > > (he name be Nowho.) > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It undermines >it. It assumes the reality of the one asking. toombaru > " Who are you? " (or, " Who am I? " ) does not assume the reality of a > person-subject. It calls it into question, into doubt. > > There is no who, no separative, individual self. All is as it is. > Simple. Perfect. Absolute. > > Let it be. > > Enjoy. > > > > fuzzie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 > > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It undermines > >it. > > fuzzie It assumes the reality of the one asking. > > > toombaru And, who would that be? (Methinks thou dost assume too much). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > > > > > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It undermines > > >it. > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It assumes the reality of the one asking. > > > > > > toombaru > > > And, who would that be? > > (Methinks thou dost assume too much). > > ......and whom is this " me " in methinks? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It > undermines > > > >it. > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It assumes the reality of the one asking. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > And, who would that be? > > > > (Methinks thou dost assume too much). > > > > > > > > .....and whom is this " me " in methinks? > > > toombaru " Methinks " is an Old English expression. " Me " is a linguistic convention. The pronoun (or any pronoun) denotes an abstract point of reference between two interlocutors; purely fictional in design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It > > undermines > > > > >it. > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It assumes the reality of the one asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > And, who would that be? > > > > > > (Methinks thou dost assume too much). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .....and whom is this " me " in methinks? > > > > > > toombaru > > " Methinks " is an Old English expression. " Me " is a linguistic > convention. The pronoun (or any pronoun) denotes an abstract point of > reference between two interlocutors; purely fictional in design. .......and that speculation on the nature of reality...resides where? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2005 > > > > > > The question does not assume the reality of the who. It > > > undermines > > > > > >it. > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It assumes the reality of the one asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > And, who would that be? > > > > > > > > (Methinks thou dost assume too much). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .....and whom is this " me " in methinks? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > " Methinks " is an Old English expression. " Me " is a linguistic > > convention. The pronoun (or any pronoun) denotes an abstract point > of > > reference between two interlocutors; purely fictional in design. > > > > > ......and that speculation on the nature of reality...resides where? > > > > toombaru What reality? Who is talking about reality? Who are you, anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
