Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self > from > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > answer. > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > " It " never was. > > > > t. > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just > unfair! > > /AL ** And so it goes... Let me guess: you're unemployed, or under-employed. Kept alive by the dole, Swedish socialism. Yah? And you immerse in ideas, all day long--on these lists. Why don't you go do something? Volunteer in a hospital terminal ward? A kid's sports team? Maybe go out in the forest and plant trees? ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 > > They are not his friend.......they are his totality. > > > toombaru ********************** Hey toombaru I was missing your Zoombie Jambore!!! Cause there are a lot of heartless Zombies here. Are you still in the I am state or you just fallen and came back to listen to some good old crap from us! Anyway what you said above is certainly great! Nice to talk to you again!! Alberto now Odysseus, P.S. You don't mind if I call myself Odysseus? Because some people here just won't sleep tonight! They " think " I'm arrogant!! ha ha ha! Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell > > separating Self > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of > > > > separation that > > > > > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to > > become a > > > > > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know > > > > yourself, > > > > > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > > within a > > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > > > not the > > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > > thoughtless? I > > > > > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is > > > > no way > > > > > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present > > > > in the > > > > > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most > > sages talk > > > > > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain > > > > trapped in > > > > > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the > > > > future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a > > separate > > > > > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want > > to be a > > > > > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the > > time. If I > > > > > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This > > is just > > > > > > unfair! > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of > > separation. > > > > > > > > > > In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. > > > > > > > > > > You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the > > > > entire universe emerges....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't This enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > I want to feel free to do what I want in a world where everyone is > > > > free. We are today living in a world that is a prison, a true global > > > > nightmare. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very few are wired to see > > > > > > the true horror > > > > > > of the Zombee jamboree. > > > > > > > > > > > > The most subtle shift.......... > > > > > > > > > a tenth of a degree.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > ..............a little south of earth > > > > > > > > > and you are free. > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > May that shift happen to us all. > > > It already has. ***************************** Odysseus: Ha ha ha! Your speech changed a bit hein!!! You went to meditate for a while and you came back stronger then ever! Or maybe clearer than ever! Anyway it is beautiful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state > > of > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > > > dissolves. > > > > > > /AL > > > > You mean, you see some absolute boundary functioning > > somewhere? > > > > Where is it, I must be missing it? > > > > -- Dan > > No absolute boundary, but my body feels like a boundary, and the body > is connceted to all my material possessions, relationships, memories, > knowledge, self-image, e t c. So the " me " feels like a web of > relations to 'things', and this personal web is in conflict with the > larger web called the world. The " me " is struggling with the " world " , > and that is the boundary. If this boundary would dissolve into one > " me/world " experience, then I would be at peace I imagine. > > /AL ** Nope, look again. Look very intensely. In whatever moment, it's undivided, unitary, no boundary. Even if it's thought in the so-called " next " moment to be split, it's undivided in that *very* moment of " conceiving splitness, " and so on. Only one this-moment. Nothing to add, nothing lacking, nothing other-than. Clue: don't 'think' (speculate) about this--feel it, whole-bodily. Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Al: > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? I feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > out. Odysseus: There is no way out for sure. Only the Self can help you here. But if you close yourself to your " Self " you are done! Al: Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. Odysseus: You say I can see the logic the logic is the trap! You must go beyong your thoughts in your consciousness above your thoughts. You are the Self and you want to reach the Self what is the problem? The problem is that you are the Ego too and he is killing you and you are tired of him now!! Let him go! Drop it! They are many way to do that but it can't be done without effort that is for sure! Toombaru gave you a good speach. If with those direct communication you enter consciousness and abide it above thoughts you will reach the I am state. If you can do that and remain there, well. We would have to find you a new Homeric name because you are going to be a Hero. I know you won't be able to do it! Can you kill a tiger with your bare hands? I doubt it. that is why the Masters teach and help their students to reach enlightement etc. Nothing is easy at all. You can spend 3,4 years to get a master degree at the university. But you will spend lives before being able to reach true enlightement, to be a true Master. Osho says he spent several lives before entering true enlightement. Don't foul yourself you will suffer more!! Aren't you tired of suffering? Odysseus: You understand that you are trapped it is very very good. How can you get out of the trap if you think you are not trapped? You must start with the basics. To Know were you are in the process and from there you can start. Remaining there, you are vulnerable and you don't want to be there, no one wants to be there. But if you start saying i'm not vulnerable! You will give food to the ego. and you will remain trapped. Wish you luck, Love Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable > state > > > of > > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world > totally > > > > dissolves. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > You mean, you see some absolute boundary functioning > > > somewhere? > > > > > > Where is it, I must be missing it? > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > No absolute boundary, but my body feels like a boundary, and the > body > > is connceted to all my material possessions, relationships, > memories, > > knowledge, self-image, e t c. So the " me " feels like a web of > > relations to 'things', and this personal web is in conflict with > the > > larger web called the world. The " me " is struggling with > the " world " , > > and that is the boundary. If this boundary would dissolve into one > > " me/world " experience, then I would be at peace I imagine. > > > > /AL > > ** Nope, look again. Look very intensely. In whatever moment, > it's undivided, unitary, no boundary. Even if it's thought > in the so-called " next " moment to be split, it's undivided > in that *very* moment of " conceiving splitness, " and so on. > > Only one this-moment. Nothing to add, nothing lacking, > nothing other-than. > > Clue: don't 'think' (speculate) about this--feel it, > whole-bodily. > > Ken ***************************** I'm impressed don't think or speculate? Tell that to a woman that is having a baby in an hospital. Hey Madame don't scream. You don't understand that you are one. And the hurt is an illusion!! You are not real!! Not to think is the goal. These are just words you are giving the guy. A man lost his wife and children and all his fortune. He was crying big time. A Nisargadatta web site thought master was passing by and ask the man what is wrong? The man explained the situation. The very wise Master said well just don't worry. Life is just like a dream. It is an illusion. You wife was not real. So the man looking to the master and " awakened " and said well, I'm Ok now all my problems are behind me. Thanks a bunch!! No problem replyed the Master. And if you know someone who is suffering near you just tell him the same words he will awaken!! Ha ha ha!!!!!!! Al, is a thoughts Master already do you guys really " think " you are going to awaken him with more thinking and more words??? Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 > > ** And so it goes... > > Ken: Let me guess: you're unemployed, or under-employed. > Kept alive by the dole, Swedish socialism. Yah? > > And you immerse in ideas, all day long--on these lists. > > Why don't you go do something? Volunteer in a hospital > terminal ward? A kid's sports team? > > Maybe go out in the forest and plant trees? > > ) *********************************************************** Odysseus: Oh ken man I " thought " you were brighter! What has unemployement, under-employed has to do with the Masters teaching or enlightement??? When a thoughts master like you doesn't know what to reply, well, he speaks with his feet. And talk none sense. What can I say? Look what you are telling me to do! To go volunteer in a hopital terminal ward? But almost all the guys here think that an Hospital is an illusion that it doesn't exist! So if it doesn't exist how can I go there to be get help? :0) For these guys all is illusion and when illusion knocks at their door they are scared the shit!! Never heard about a master that was scared the shit about the illusion! Friendly Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Al: > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I in thought. /AL > > I feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > > out. > > Odysseus: There is no way out for sure. Only the Self can help you > here. But if you close yourself to your " Self " you are done! > > Al: Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped > in the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e > t c. > > Odysseus: You say I can see the logic the logic is the trap! You > must go beyong your thoughts in your consciousness above your > thoughts. You are the Self and you want to reach the Self what is > the problem? The problem is that you are the Ego too and he is > killing you and you are tired of him now!! Let him go! Drop it! They > are many way to do that but it can't be done without effort that is > for sure! > > Toombaru gave you a good speach. If with those direct communication > you enter consciousness and abide it above thoughts you will reach > the I am state. If you can do that and remain there, well. We would > have to find you a new Homeric name because you are going to be a > Hero. I know you won't be able to do it! Can you kill a tiger with > your bare hands? I doubt it. that is why the Masters teach and help > their students to reach enlightement etc. Nothing is easy at all. > You can spend 3,4 years to get a master degree at the university. > But you will spend lives before being able to reach true > enlightement, to be a true Master. Osho says he spent several lives > before entering true enlightement. Don't foul yourself you will > suffer more!! Aren't you tired of suffering? > > Odysseus: You understand that you are trapped it is very very good. > How can you get out of the trap if you think you are not trapped? > You must start with the basics. To Know were you are in the process > and from there you can start. Remaining there, you are vulnerable > and you don't want to be there, no one wants to be there. But if you > start saying i'm not vulnerable! You will give food to the ego. and > you will remain trapped. > > Wish you luck, > Love > Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > Al: > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I > in thought. > > > You are not trapped in thought...... You are the thought of being trapped...... toombaru. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating > Self > > from > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of > separation that > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > answer. > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to > reach > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to > become a > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know > yourself, > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > within a > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > not the > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > thoughtless? I > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is > no way > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present > in the > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages > talk > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain > trapped in > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the > future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > t. > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be > a > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. > If I > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is > just > > unfair! > > > > /AL > > ** And so it goes... > > Let me guess: you're unemployed, or under-employed. > Kept alive by the dole, Swedish socialism. Yah? > > And you immerse in ideas, all day long--on these lists. > > Why don't you go do something? Volunteer in a hospital > terminal ward? A kid's sports team? > > Maybe go out in the forest and plant trees? > > ) A: I work as an independent computer consultant. That's enough for me I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable > state > > > of > > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world > totally > > > > dissolves. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > You mean, you see some absolute boundary functioning > > > somewhere? > > > > > > Where is it, I must be missing it? > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > No absolute boundary, but my body feels like a boundary, and the > body > > is connceted to all my material possessions, relationships, > memories, > > knowledge, self-image, e t c. So the " me " feels like a web of > > relations to 'things', and this personal web is in conflict with > the > > larger web called the world. The " me " is struggling with > the " world " , > > and that is the boundary. If this boundary would dissolve into one > > " me/world " experience, then I would be at peace I imagine. > > > > /AL > > ** Nope, look again. Look very intensely. In whatever moment, > it's undivided, unitary, no boundary. Even if it's thought > in the so-called " next " moment to be split, it's undivided > in that *very* moment of " conceiving splitness, " and so on. > > Only one this-moment. Nothing to add, nothing lacking, > nothing other-than. > > Clue: don't 'think' (speculate) about this--feel it, > whole-bodily. > > Ken Yes, the now is one. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > Al: > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > toombaru. Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, or it will dissolve gradually. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > not the > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > or it will dissolve gradually. > > /AL The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it is futile. ....and only adds to its credability......... .......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. There is nothing you can do....or not do. You will simmer in this until you are done. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > within a > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > not the > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped > am I > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > /AL The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it is futile. > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > toombaru This........is what you asked for! and now you want to go back? Did you think this was going to be easy? well..........sorry.......once the door is opened..........it's gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > > within a > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > > not the > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped > > am I > > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it is futile. > > > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > This........is what you asked for! > > and now you want to go back? > > Did you think this was going to be easy? > > > well..........sorry.......once the door is opened..........it's gone. No one can help you. You are alone in this. Stand up. Face the wind. You are on the very edge of all that is....right now! Put your arms out.................. your head back......... Jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > within a > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > not the > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped > am I > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > /AL The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it is futile. > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > toombaru There is something I can do. Something we all can do. I can be. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > > within a > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > > not the > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped > > am I > > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it > is futile. > > > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > > > > toombaru > > > There is something I can do. Something we all can do. I can be. > > /AL From that assumption.....the whole hoopla begins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > > > within a > > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > > > not the > > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped > > > am I > > > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. Emotions > > > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn feed the > > > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to observe > > > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop will snap, > > > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it > > is futile. > > > > > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > > > > > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > > > > > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > There is something I can do. Something we all can do. I can be. > > > > /AL > > > > From that assumption.....the whole hoopla begins. Until a shift takes place in which you recognize the now itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al: > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > > > > within a > > > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: > you are > > > > > not the > > > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > > > thoughtless? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: I am thoughtless. No joke. Can I help you somehow? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. > Trapped > > > > am I > > > > > > > in thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not trapped in thought...... > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the thought of being trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. And that horrible bundle of emotions running my life. > Emotions > > > > > feed and control thoughts of being trapped, which, in turn > feed the > > > > > emotions - it's a vicious loop. A way out of this shit is to > observe > > > > > this whole process while it's running. Maybe one has to observe a > > > > > thousand times, ten thousand times. But eventually the loop > will snap, > > > > > or it will dissolve gradually. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " self " exists only in thought.........Any attempt to observe it > > > is futile. > > > > > > > > ...and only adds to its credability......... > > > > > > > > > > > > ......a knot that does not exist ...............cannot be untied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing you can do....or not do. > > > > > > > > > > > > You will simmer in this until you are done. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > There is something I can do. Something we all can do. I can be. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > From that assumption.....the whole hoopla begins. > > Until a shift takes place in which you recognize the now itself. Nope...........not gonna happen. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > .... > > Until a shift takes place in which you recognize the now itself. > > > > Nope...........not gonna happen. > > > t. That's what you think, because the thinking mind is afraid of the now. To the thinking mind, the now appear as utter loneliness and a feeling of dreadful emptiness. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > Until a shift takes place in which you recognize the now itself. > > > > > > > > Nope...........not gonna happen. > > > > > > t. > > That's what you think, because the thinking mind is afraid of the now. > To the thinking mind, the now appear as utter loneliness and a feeling > of dreadful emptiness. > > /AL " Thinking is always 1/200th of a second behind its own concept of " now " The thinking mind is the source of fear......It is its own emptiness that it fears the most.......and for good reason. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >You are not trapped in thought...... >You are the thought of being trapped...... Think again... If you are the thought (of whatever)... then there is no you - no thought - no toombarus... Because this means there is nobody who could have those thoughts. But the very fact that you have written those lines is proving you wrong. Face it: you ARE... and nobody has asked you if you want it or not. S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: >We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I >in thought. And what you are meant to do the very next moment still now you dont know. S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >You are not trapped in thought...... > >You are the thought of being trapped...... > > Think again... > If you are the thought (of whatever)... > then there is no you - no thought - no toombarus... > > Because this means there is nobody who could have those thoughts. > > But the very fact that you have written those lines is proving you > wrong. It is not I who write.......It is consciousness itself.......using the brain and fingers of this old zombee....There is no toombaru.........just a meat puppet.......... > > Face it: you ARE... and nobody has asked you if you want it or not. > > S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > >We do only what we were meant to do. Help me you could. Trapped am I > >in thought. > > And what you are meant to do the very next moment still now you dont > know. > > S. It isn't that you don't know....There simply is no you to know anything. The illusion of 'you " is formed in the moment to momentness. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
