Guest guest Report post Posted December 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you really living > from that untouchable state of being? > > /AL Untouchable state of being? You make me laugh! You can touch me. Well, maybe you can't, you'll just hit a computer screen. But, people who interact with me face to face, and day to day can touch me. There's nothing special about me whatsoever. I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. You've got me all wrong! And as for ideas I have, they come and go as they will. What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: democracy, enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. But living for those ideas turns out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing more. Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. But, the end result is the same: you die. Your great idea didn't help you one bit. Touchably yours, Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you really > living > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > /AL > > Untouchable state of being? > > You make me laugh! > > You can touch me. > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > hit a computer screen. > > But, people who interact with me face > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > You've got me all wrong! > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > they will. > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: democracy, > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > But living for those ideas turns > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > more. > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > Touchably yours, > Dan What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state of being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally dissolves. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you really > > living > > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > > > /AL > > > > Untouchable state of being? > > > > You make me laugh! > > > > You can touch me. > > > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > > hit a computer screen. > > > > But, people who interact with me face > > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > > > You've got me all wrong! > > > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > > they will. > > > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: democracy, > > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > > But living for those ideas turns > > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > > more. > > > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > > > Touchably yours, > > Dan > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state of > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > dissolves. > > /AL ** You're untouchable alright. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: >Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. >But, the end result is the same: you die. Why " end-result " ? Do you think dead is the result of something? If so, of what? Is the dead of a flower the result of its blossoming? Is the dead of a star the result of its shining? Is dead the result of life or is life the result of dead? What if things just are as they are? And there is absolutely nothing you can do? > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. In what way then... should it have helped? And WHO needs help... WHO is dying and WHO is dead? S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you really > > > living > > > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Untouchable state of being? > > > > > > You make me laugh! > > > > > > You can touch me. > > > > > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > > > hit a computer screen. > > > > > > But, people who interact with me face > > > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > > > > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > > > > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > > > > > You've got me all wrong! > > > > > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > > > they will. > > > > > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > > > > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: > democracy, > > > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > > > But living for those ideas turns > > > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > > > more. > > > > > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > > > > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > > > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > > > > > Touchably yours, > > > Dan > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state > of > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > > dissolves. > > > > /AL > > ** You're untouchable alright. Hehe. Yea, I'm running around in my inner world. And it's a good thing it's untouchable, 'cause it's a bloody mess! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > .... > > Hehe. Yea, I'm running around in my inner world. And it's a good > thing it's untouchable, 'cause it's a bloody mess! Hmm... Maybe that's why I am afraid of letting other people know what I really think. Maybe that's why everybody is afraid of having their mind being read. We don't want people to read our minds because the thinking process is in chaos! We _need_ to have a filter on our private thoughts, so that when we speak or write something, then instead of a chaotic stream, a meaningful and for other people comprehensible stream of information is given. Maybe that's why we would feel embarassed if someone could read our thoughts directly. I don't think this fear has to be taken seriously. Noise is noise. If someone could read my mind, he or she would get a great amount of noise. And that noise would not really tell the other person anything of interest, because it would be interpretated in a wrong way. Why? Try to describe the face of a friend of yours to another person who does not know your friend. You would not succeed very well. Why? Because your internal map of reality is private to you, and the 'bandwidth' of the information stream you are able to communicate to another person with is very small/narrow. If we could increase the bandwidth of communication, then telepathy and other forms of communication could, perhaps, become feasible. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: Hmm... Maybe that's why I am afraid of letting other people know what > I really think. Odysseus: Love Al, not challenging. I couldn't resist to speak. What you are saying is true. You are indeed afraid of letting others read your mind. I am not. I have no mind. And I will tell you the reason why you are afraid to let others read your mind. The main reason is that you are afraid, and extremly vulnerable. When I say you I mean most of the people. Such is the " the Self " . When I say you, I mean most of the people. The one you try to protect is the real you, The Self. As long as you protect it, you hide it. As long as you hide it, you are not it fully, but partly, you are not " the Self. " You " are hidding. When you show your true face to others you are scared of their approuval or not. What they may think. The Ego needs to be accepted by others. The Self does not need approval or disapproval. You are what you are. The Self. If your true self gets out you are more fragile than a flower, you may want to cry like a little girl. and no Ego wants that! Instead of being strong you are more weak than a flower being step on by a horse passing by. The horse pass by and for no reason it steps on you and you are no longer the flower. So the Self makes the Ego to protect it from the apparent danger outside. Awakening is the letting your true Self be. Be what it is. Al: Maybe that's why everybody is afraid of having their mind being read. We don't want people to read our minds because the thinking process is in chaos! We _need_ to have a filter on our private thoughts, so that when we speak or write something, then instead of a chaotic stream, a meaningful and for other people > comprehensible stream of information is given. Maybe that's why we > would feel embarassed if someone could read our thoughts directly. I don't think this fear has to be taken seriously. Noise is noise. If > someone could read my mind, he or she would get a great amount of > noise. And that noise would not really tell the other person anything of interest, because it would be interpretated in a wrong way. Why? > Try to describe the face of a friend of yours to another person who > does not know your friend. You would not succeed very well. Why? > Because your internal map of reality is private to you, and the > 'bandwidth' of the information stream you are able to communicate to > another person with is very small/narrow. If we could increase the > bandwidth of communication, then telepathy and other forms of > communication could, perhaps, become feasible. > > /AL Odysseus: As you can see it by yourself all what you have said above is just a manipulation of words to avoid being the Self, You. You talk and try to change your vulnerable state into a state of I think I know! I can know! I can control. I can understand etc. This is the Ego. As you already know. The awaken knows nothing. Because all knowledge has vanished the Ego has vanished and all maya has vanished. Such is Nirvana. No-Thing. Pure awarness, pure live Empyness if you like better. Pure awarness doesn't even know that it is. (master Nis) You must know yourself but to know the Self you must be the Self. To be the Self the Ego must die. He dies when the Self no longer needs it to be (needs him no longer) only the Self that has created him can destroy him or make him dissaper. Then The Self shines with all his colors. The thoughts completely vanish and are no longer needed as as false self! The Ego. Then one enter the I am State The thoughts less state. No noise of any kind just the Self. No thoughts of any kind. And in that perfect silence one realise our true Self who is above all. Eternal, perfect, without words, immortal, we taste the bliss of the Self not because we red a book but because we are it the Self. The Self is beyond time and space. One tastes Love unconditioned Love, uncause Love. Unmanipulated Love. uncreated love. One experience infinity of being and bliss. There consciouseness sees a river flowing and there is just the seeing, no Ego. Just Consciouness it self. Looking at the river looking at him self in various colors and various forms. I am says the self I am Eternal consciousness. Unconditioned Consciousness. Resistance vanish. Gone with the wind what do I have to hide? What do I have to accept or reject? All is consciousness. And no I don't speak from books but from direct sight and direct experience of who I Am. Namaste Odysseus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > >Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > >But, the end result is the same: you die. > > Why " end-result " ? > > Do you think dead is the result of something? > If so, of what? > > Is the dead of a flower the result of its blossoming? > Is the dead of a star the result of its shining? > > Is dead the result of life or is life the result of dead? > > What if things just are as they are? > And there is absolutely nothing you can do? > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > In what way then... should it have helped? > And WHO needs help... > WHO is dying and WHO is dead? > > S. *************************************************** Odysseus: Achileas, you don't mind if I call you Achileas again here on the web site! Your Divine sword has become so powerful! What a delight reading you above. Reading your words I'm dancing the Zorba dance of infinity, Of Divine Majesty, Of perfect Freedom. Look at me Achileas see me Achileas. Where Am I? I am not!! I am the Zorba dance of Eternity. I am the dance it self! Where are you Achileas where are you? I can no longer see you? Where are you? are you dancing too? Why doesn't your feet touch the ground? What is ground? What about all the books you have red? Where are your books?? Have you thrown them away? Has their knowledge become yours now? Have you decided now to be and not to " think " to be? Ohh great greek dancer! You are indeed dancing! Dancing into infinity! oh bliss! Why have I resisted you for so long? Why? Namaste Achileas Namaste. My heart rejoice and heaven shakes in happiness. It is ready to receive you. Enter without fear. All you will see is " you " . Enter and let the Ego disolve in " you " the " Self " rest my friend rest in hapiness and freedom. The Ego is such a heavy weight, let it down, let it go. Its task has ended. You don't need him anymore. Rejoice you are " the Self " . Shine, be. Odysseus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Hmm... Maybe that's why I am afraid of letting other people know what > > I really think. > > Odysseus: Love Al, not challenging. I couldn't resist to speak. What > you are saying is true. You are indeed afraid of letting others read > your mind. I am not. I have no mind. And I will tell you the reason > why you are afraid to let others read your mind. The main reason is > that you are afraid, and extremly vulnerable. When I say you I mean > most of the people. Such is the " the Self " . When I say you, I mean > most of the people. The one you try to protect is the real you, The > Self. As long as you protect it, you hide it. As long as you hide > it, you are not it fully, but partly, you are not " the Self. " You " > are hidding. When you show your true face to others you are scared > of their approuval or not. What they may think. The Ego needs to be > accepted by others. The Self does not need approval or disapproval. > You are what you are. The Self. If your true self gets out you are > more fragile than a flower, you may want to cry like a little girl. > and no Ego wants that! Instead of being strong you are more weak > than a flower being step on by a horse passing by. The horse pass by > and for no reason it steps on you and you are no longer the flower. > So the Self makes the Ego to protect it from the apparent danger > outside. Awakening is the letting your true Self be. Be what it is. > > Al: > Maybe that's why everybody is afraid of having their mind being > read. We don't want people to read our minds because the thinking > process is in chaos! We _need_ to have a filter on our private > thoughts, so that when we speak or write something, then instead of > a chaotic stream, a meaningful and for other people > > comprehensible stream of information is given. Maybe that's why we > > would feel embarassed if someone could read our thoughts directly. > I don't think this fear has to be taken seriously. Noise is noise. If > > someone could read my mind, he or she would get a great amount of > > noise. And that noise would not really tell the other person > anything of interest, because it would be interpretated in a wrong > way. Why? > > > Try to describe the face of a friend of yours to another person who > > does not know your friend. You would not succeed very well. Why? > > Because your internal map of reality is private to you, and the > > 'bandwidth' of the information stream you are able to communicate > to > > another person with is very small/narrow. If we could increase the > > bandwidth of communication, then telepathy and other forms of > > communication could, perhaps, become feasible. > > > > /AL > > Odysseus: As you can see it by yourself all what you have said above > is just a manipulation of words to avoid being the Self, You. You > talk and try to change your vulnerable state into a state of I think > I know! I can know! I can control. I can understand etc. This is the > Ego. > As you already know. The awaken knows nothing. Because all knowledge > has vanished the Ego has vanished and all maya has vanished. Such is > Nirvana. No-Thing. Pure awarness, pure live Empyness if you like > better. > > Pure awarness doesn't even know that it is. (master Nis) > > You must know yourself but to know the Self you must be the Self. To > be the Self the Ego must die. He dies when the Self no longer needs > it to be (needs him no longer) only the Self that has created him > can destroy him or make him dissaper. Then The Self shines with all > his colors. The thoughts completely vanish and are no longer needed > as as false self! The Ego. Then one enter the I am State The > thoughts less state. No noise of any kind just the Self. No thoughts > of any kind. And in that perfect silence one realise our true Self > who is above all. Eternal, perfect, without words, immortal, we > taste the bliss of the Self not because we red a book but because we > are it the Self. The Self is beyond time and space. One tastes Love > unconditioned Love, uncause Love. Unmanipulated Love. uncreated > love. One experience infinity of being and bliss. > > There consciouseness sees a river flowing and there is just the > seeing, no Ego. Just Consciouness it self. Looking at the river > looking at him self in various colors and various forms. I am says > the self I am Eternal consciousness. Unconditioned Consciousness. > Resistance vanish. Gone with the wind what do I have to hide? What > do I have to accept or reject? All is consciousness. > > And no I don't speak from books but from direct sight and direct > experience of who I Am. > > > > Namaste > Odysseus What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self from Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that needs to be protected? /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 11, 2004 > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self from > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > needs to be protected? > > /AL Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual answer. and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, you are beyond words. Peace to you, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state of > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > dissolves. > > /AL You mean, you see some absolute boundary functioning somewhere? Where is it, I must be missing it? -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you really > > > > living > > > > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > You make me laugh! > > > > > > > > You can touch me. > > > > > > > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > > > > hit a computer screen. > > > > > > > > But, people who interact with me face > > > > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > > > > > > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > > > > > > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > > > > > > > You've got me all wrong! > > > > > > > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > > > > they will. > > > > > > > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > > > > > > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: > > democracy, > > > > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > > > > But living for those ideas turns > > > > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > > > > more. > > > > > > > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > > > > > > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > > > > > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > > > > > > > Touchably yours, > > > > Dan > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state > > of > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > > > dissolves. > > > > > > /AL > > > > ** You're untouchable alright. > > Hehe. Yea, I'm running around in my inner world. And it's a good > thing it's untouchable, 'cause it's a bloody mess! ** Don't knock it, it's all you've got. And try to be a little more compassionate to those illusions, memes and speculations. They just want to live, too. They've found such a good friend in you. Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > <dan330033> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you > really > > > > > living > > > > > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > Untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > > > You make me laugh! > > > > > > > > > > You can touch me. > > > > > > > > > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > > > > > hit a computer screen. > > > > > > > > > > But, people who interact with me face > > > > > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > > > > > > > > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > > > > > > > > > You've got me all wrong! > > > > > > > > > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > > > > > they will. > > > > > > > > > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > > > > > > > > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: > > > democracy, > > > > > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > > > > > But living for those ideas turns > > > > > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > > > > > > > > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > > > > > > > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > > > > > > > > > Touchably yours, > > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable > state > > > of > > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world > totally > > > > dissolves. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > ** You're untouchable alright. > > > > Hehe. Yea, I'm running around in my inner world. And it's a good > > thing it's untouchable, 'cause it's a bloody mess! > > ** Don't knock it, it's all you've got. > > And try to be a little more compassionate to > those illusions, memes and speculations. > > They just want to live, too. They've found > such a good friend in you. > > They are not his friend.......they are his totality. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self from > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > needs to be protected? > > > > /AL > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual answer. > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > you are beyond words. > > Peace to you, Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable state > of > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world totally > > dissolves. > > > > /AL > > You mean, you see some absolute boundary functioning > somewhere? > > Where is it, I must be missing it? > > -- Dan No absolute boundary, but my body feels like a boundary, and the body is connceted to all my material possessions, relationships, memories, knowledge, self-image, e t c. So the " me " feels like a web of relations to 'things', and this personal web is in conflict with the larger web called the world. The " me " is struggling with the " world " , and that is the boundary. If this boundary would dissolve into one " me/world " experience, then I would be at peace I imagine. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: .... > > ** Don't knock it, it's all you've got. > > And try to be a little more compassionate to > those illusions, memes and speculations. > > They just want to live, too. They've found > such a good friend in you. > > Ken I am possessed by memes! /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self from > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > /AL > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual answer. > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > > you are beyond words. > > > > Peace to you, > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. There is no separate " I " entity. It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. It is a clot of memories. It is not trapped...... " It " is identification with limitation........ It can never escape from fear...... " It " never was. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self from > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual answer. > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > It is a clot of memories. > > It is not trapped...... > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > It can never escape from fear...... > > " It " never was. > > t. So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just unfair! /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self > from > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > answer. > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > " It " never was. > > > > t. > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just > unfair! > > /AL The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of separation. In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the entire universe emerges....... Isn't This enough? t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self > > from > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of separation that > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > answer. > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to reach > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know yourself, > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are not the > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being thoughtless? I > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is no way > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present in the > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain trapped in > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > t. > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just > > unfair! > > > > /AL > > > The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of separation. > > In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. > > You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the entire universe emerges....... > > > Isn't This enough? > > > t. I want to feel free to do what I want in a world where everyone is free. We are today living in a world that is a prison, a true global nightmare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self > > > from > > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of > separation that > > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > > answer. > > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to > reach > > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know > yourself, > > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > not the > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > thoughtless? I > > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is > no way > > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present > in the > > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain > trapped in > > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the > future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a > > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I > > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just > > > unfair! > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of separation. > > > > In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. > > > > You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the > entire universe emerges....... > > > > > > Isn't This enough? > > > > > > t. > > I want to feel free to do what I want in a world where everyone is > free. We are today living in a world that is a prison, a true global > nightmare. Very few are wired to see the true horror of the Zombee jamboree. The most subtle shift.......... a tenth of a degree.......... ...............a little south of earth and you are free. ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell separating Self > > > > from > > > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of > > separation that > > > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > > > answer. > > > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to > > reach > > > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to become a > > > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know > > yourself, > > > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced within a > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > not the > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > thoughtless? I > > > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is > > no way > > > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present > > in the > > > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most sages talk > > > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain > > trapped in > > > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the > > future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a separate > > > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want to be a > > > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the time. If I > > > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This is just > > > > unfair! > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of separation. > > > > > > In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. > > > > > > You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the > > entire universe emerges....... > > > > > > > > > Isn't This enough? > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > I want to feel free to do what I want in a world where everyone is > > free. We are today living in a world that is a prison, a true global > > nightmare. > > > > Very few are wired to see > > the true horror > > of the Zombee jamboree. > > > > The most subtle shift.......... > > > a tenth of a degree.......... > > > > ..............a little south of earth > > > and you are free. > > > > ;-) May that shift happen to us all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > > > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are saying is that the ego is a shell > separating Self > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Self. But isn't the human body itself a device of > > > separation that > > > > > > > > > needs to be protected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Odysseus: You are waiting for me to give you an intellectual > > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > and it is the intellect that you are suppose to transcend to > > > reach > > > > > > > > the Self? What do you want? The Self or answers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a thoughts master, maybe it is time for you to > become a > > > > > > > > thoughtless master? Don't feel offended by my words. Know > > > yourself, > > > > > > > > you are beyond words. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, emotions, perceptions and memories experienced > within a > > > > > > > body; that's what I feel I am. Many sages say that: you are > > > not the > > > > > > > body. This is a concept I find hard to believe. Being > > > thoughtless? I > > > > > > > feel I am trapped in thoughts and emotions and that there is > > > no way > > > > > > > out. Maybe the only escape is into the now, to be more present > > > in the > > > > > > > moment. This 'here and now' is of course also what most > sages talk > > > > > > > about. I can see the logic in these concepts, but I remain > > > trapped in > > > > > > > the thinking mind driven by emotions, worrying about the > > > future e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no separate " I " entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the result..the by-product ...of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a clot of memories. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not trapped...... > > > > > > > > > > > > " It " is identification with limitation........ > > > > > > > > > > > > It can never escape from fear...... > > > > > > > > > > > > " It " never was. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > So then not only am I powerless, I don't really exist as a > separate > > > > > entity. How horrible! I want to have the power to become free. > > > > > > > > > > Many sages say: you are nothing. Isn't that terrible? I want > to be a > > > > > somebody. At least not to be someone living in fear all the > time. If I > > > > > have no power, why then am I afraid of making mistakes? This > is just > > > > > unfair! > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > The identification is the mother of fear.......the horror of > separation. > > > > > > > > In the realization of this ...is the " freedom " you seek. > > > > > > > > You are a point of unknowable consciousness....out of which the > > > entire universe emerges....... > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't This enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > I want to feel free to do what I want in a world where everyone is > > > free. We are today living in a world that is a prison, a true global > > > nightmare. > > > > > > > > Very few are wired to see > > > > the true horror > > > > of the Zombee jamboree. > > > > > > > > The most subtle shift.......... > > > > > > a tenth of a degree.......... > > > > > > > > ..............a little south of earth > > > > > > and you are free. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > May that shift happen to us all. It already has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > .... > > > > May that shift happen to us all. > > > It already has. Splendid! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > > <dan330033> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are these just intellectual ideas you have, or are you > > really > > > > > > living > > > > > > > from that untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > Untouchable state of being? > > > > > > > > > > > > You make me laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > You can touch me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, maybe you can't, you'll just > > > > > > hit a computer screen. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, people who interact with me face > > > > > > to face, and day to day can touch me. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's nothing special about me whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not claiming to be in some untouchable state. > > > > > > > > > > > > You've got me all wrong! > > > > > > > > > > > > And as for ideas I have, they come and go as > > > > > > they will. > > > > > > > > > > > > What import does an idea have, as it comes and goes? > > > > > > > > > > > > Humans invent all kinds of supposedly important ideas: > > > > democracy, > > > > > > enlightenment, beauty, bliss, efficiency, status, wealth. > > > > > > But living for those ideas turns > > > > > > out to be attempts to fortify self, nothing > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, you can try to live your life for an idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, the end result is the same: you die. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your great idea didn't help you one bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > Touchably yours, > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > What I understand from sages is that there is an untouchable > > state > > > > of > > > > > being, where the boundaries between the " me " and the world > > totally > > > > > dissolves. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > ** You're untouchable alright. > > > > > > Hehe. Yea, I'm running around in my inner world. And it's a good > > > thing it's untouchable, 'cause it's a bloody mess! > > > > ** Don't knock it, it's all you've got. > > > > And try to be a little more compassionate to > > those illusions, memes and speculations. > > > > They just want to live, too. They've found > > such a good friend in you. > > > > > > > > They are not his friend.......they are his totality. > > > toombaru ** He's fixing a hole- where the rain gets in. And stops his mind from wandering... Or, what's a computer-guy in cold, cold Sweden gonna do? Find another patch! Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
