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Hi Alton,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

 

Dear Rob:

Why be sorry. . I am glad for what happened to him and others, if that is of benefit to their PATH now..

 

> Whether you were violated by a guru or died in some

> sort of holocaust, those horrendous events

> were God's will and actually accelerate our return to the SOURCE.

 

You seem to be saying that when a person does a bad thing,

it's God's will.

 

Yes I am. I know that most wont accept that, but even those terrible guys are God's agents for purification.

 

Nisargadatta: "Nothing is happening" the effects neutralize the actions and in the end nothing is happening.

 

But when somebody takes an action that stops a bad

thing, it's not God's will.

 

Yes it is part of the program of the divine scenario. So I am not going to say I am right and somebody else is wrong. It is all a play of consciousness.

You took one dual part and I balanced it out with another.

 

What one person sees as a creepy cult another goes ecstatic. To me most of the worlds religions are creepy cults. We can only choose and judge for ourselves. Ching Hai was one of those guru's who initiated me. Many say she ruined families and relationships. I say that she has brought her followers much joy and happiness and although I am sorry for their families, I see it as some wonderful spirituality.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why aren't they both

God's will?

 

They are, see above.

 

Why isn't it God's will for a friend to talk a friend out of

enlisting in a creepy cult?

 

Go right ahead and if you can do it then that is his/her destiny.

 

"Nothing ever goes wrong in my world". That applies to all of us, even though we may not accept that at the time.

 

> Do you think anything can go wrong with someone's sadhana?

 

 

Just as much as with any other type of activity. Sadhana is

no more and no less holy than anything else.

 

Yes every event is plain and simple Sadhana, if you see it that way.

Love,

Alton

 

 

 

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hello, at this point i can't tell who is saying what...can you please

put your *mark* on your own words..?

 

smiles

devi

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> Ramana said he had thoughts when reading or

> being asked a question. So even his samadhi was

> intermittent. OK Rob tell me I am wrong.

 

I think I'm going to start charging for these homework assignments.

 

We all have to make a living some way, because in our culture begging bowls

and frowned upon. ROF

 

Sri Ramana said he was in a state of sahaja samadhi which is

continuous. He described how thoughts (and everything else) appear

in this state as follows:

 

"In sahaja, however, the mind has resolved itself into the Self and

has been lost.... The activities of such a being are like the feeding

of a somnolent boy, perceptible to an onlooker (but not to the

subject). The driver sleeping on his moving cart is not aware of

the motion of the cart, because his mind is sunk in darkness.

Similarly the sahaja jnani remains unaware of his bodily activities

because his mind is dead -- having been resolved in the ecstasy of

Chid Ananada (Self)."

 

-- From Talks, Article 187.

 

 

This might be correct and it might not be correct. If Ramana submitted to testing with the latest MRI technology we might be able to conclusively prove the above statements

but since he did not only the "

"true believer will accept it in toto.

 

Hey if it is my destiny to be Realized and I believe it is, then I will submit to all tests so that we can have definitive scientific data on spiritual attainments.

 

Dear Alak, will you be tested? Not to prove that you are Realized but to make spirituality more scientific.

 

Love,

Alton who is making his last posting flourish before leaving tomorrow. I wont annoy this group for at least three weeks.

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Wondering out loud. Is calling someone "silly" a personal attack? Or did you mean the arguments were silly?

 

 

> Stop and sit in the stillness it will come ...... Oh come on, stop being silly. Tell me what you meant.I'd like to respond. It would be interesting.By the way, I love the way the trademark ellipses(....) came back as soon as Onniko outed you.I have to admit the missing ellipses fooled me. That'show shallow I am -- I can be fooled by punctuationmarks. :)Best regards,Rob- "alak_azam" <alak_azam<Realization >Wednesday, November 05, 2003 5:16 PM Re: Hello I am new here> Realization , "Rob Sacks" <editor@r...> > wrote:> > Hi Ganga,> > > > > Using your logic why do you have a site at all ? > > > > I'm sorry I don't understand this. I really don't. What's> > your line of thinking here?> > > > Regards,> > > > Rob> > > Stop and sit in the stillness it will come ...... > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................

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devi: hmm, i wish i had never said that..the saying of it has caused

> my big problems for the passt 11 months...

 

> Isn't that the work you needed to do?

 

devi: i think not....i was coming from a playful place and if i was a

jnani there wouldn't be any real significant need...

>

> Did you not attract those " big problems " ? Your not

playing " victim are you?

 

devi: geene poole said i was playing victim..i disagreed, but i did

feel like the receiver of kartas and jodys abuse....if thats a vicim

role, ok, but notice i didn't like it and tried my best to get out of

the role as best and quickly as i could...

>

> So are you saying you were unskillful by proclaiming your

Realization?

 

devi: i don't think of myself as skillful or unskillful

usually....but when i do think of myself as skillfull its only

skillfulness in my sadhana....the rest..well, i don't knw..

>

> You want to change your destiny? May I tell you that all the

events in your life and everyone's was cast in stone at birth or

before and no changes were or are possible. You are re-enacting the

fruits, bitter or sweet of the binary processes.

>

> Love,

> Alton

 

devi: no, i look forward to my destiny and probably your right to a

certain extent...Baba Hari Dass says we have the free will of a goat

thats tied to a fence with a long rope....smiles

 

love to you alton

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Realization , " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

wrote:

> Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

> wrote:

> > It's like this. If you had never seen a dog but I didn't know if

you

> > had or not and I told you about one that I'd seen, and if then you

> > told me " Oh, yes, of course, I know. It is an energy pattern like

> > everything else " I would then realize that you'd never seen a

> real

> > live dog.

> >

> > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't matter

if

> > you had or hadn't. What you might react to, though, is your own

> > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > difference.

> >

>

> Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does non-dual

> reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

friction

> is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> what friction may remain ?

> If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature and

> disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no point

> of reference in which subject object are in competition for there

> is only One Essense and One Self.

> Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to find

> discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> fabrications of separation ?

>

> Alak_azam

 

devi: alak a zoo, haha, your funny

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Realization , " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

wrote:

> Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

> wrote:

> > It's like this. If you had never seen a dog but I didn't know if

you

> > had or not and I told you about one that I'd seen, and if then

you

> > told me " Oh, yes, of course, I know. It is an energy pattern like

> > everything else " I would then realize that you'd never seen a

> real

> > live dog.

> >

> > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't matter

if

> > you had or hadn't. What you might react to, though, is your own

> > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > difference.

> >

>

> Why is this causing such a strong reaction ?

 

 

Maybe, Devi will know why it is when she finds out who you are.

 

 

Does non-dual

> reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

friction

> is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> what friction may remain ?

> If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

and

> disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no point

> of reference in which subject object are in competition for there

> is only One Essense and One Self.

> Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to find

> discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> fabrications of separation ?

 

You are the only one so far to mention any dischord, Ganga. Everyone

else has spoken of acceptance of you just as you are. You chose

rather to protect your self-image from imaginary attcks even while

being an imaginary person.

 

 

 

> Alak_azam < just one view along the road >

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Realization , " Onniko " <onniko> wrote:

> Realization , " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

> wrote:

> > Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

> > wrote:

> > > It's like this. If you had never seen a dog but I didn't know

if

> you

> > > had or not and I told you about one that I'd seen, and if then

> you

> > > told me " Oh, yes, of course, I know. It is an energy pattern

like

> > > everything else " I would then realize that you'd never seen a

> > real

> > > live dog.

> > >

> > > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't matter

> if

> > > you had or hadn't. What you might react to, though, is your own

> > > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > > difference.

> > >

> >

> > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ?

>

>

> Maybe, Devi will know why it is when she finds out who you are.

>

>

> Does non-dual

> > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

> friction

> > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > what friction may remain ?

> > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

> and

> > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to

create

> > other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no

point

> > of reference in which subject object are in competition for there

> > is only One Essense and One Self.

> > Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to find

> > discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> > present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> > fabrications of separation ?

>

> You are the only one so far to mention any dischord, Ganga.

Everyone

> else has spoken of acceptance of you just as you are. You chose

> rather to protect your self-image from imaginary attcks even while

> being an imaginary person.

>

devi: bingo?

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Realization , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote:

> Realization , " Onniko " <onniko> wrote:

> > Realization , " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

> > wrote:

> > > Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

> > > wrote:

> > > > It's like this. If you had never seen a dog but I didn't

know

> if

> > you

> > > > had or not and I told you about one that I'd seen, and if

then

> > you

> > > > told me " Oh, yes, of course, I know. It is an energy pattern

> like

> > > > everything else " I would then realize that you'd never seen

a

> > > real

> > > > live dog.

> > > >

> > > > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't

matter

> > if

> > > > you had or hadn't. What you might react to, though, is your

own

> > > > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > > > difference.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ?

> >

> >

> > Maybe, Devi will know why it is when she finds out who you are.

> >

> >

> > Does non-dual

> > > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction

and

> > friction

> > > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of

duality

> > > where there are two. When a letting go of this division

occurs

> > > what friction may remain ?

> > > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in

nature

> > and

> > > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to

> create

> > > other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no

> point

> > > of reference in which subject object are in competition for

there

> > > is only One Essense and One Self.

> > > Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to

find

> > > discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> > > present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> > > fabrications of separation ?

> >

> > You are the only one so far to mention any dischord, Ganga.

> Everyone

> > else has spoken of acceptance of you just as you are. You chose

> > rather to protect your self-image from imaginary attcks even

while

> > being an imaginary person.

> >

> devi: bingo?

 

B I N G O, B I N G O, B I N G O, and Bingo was her name O, haha!

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> Atlon: If someone claims that Realization, I accept what they> > claim. What does it matter to me.> > Rob: Yes but Alton, it doesn't matter to YOU because you're not the> type of person who follows gurus. You're ornery and independent. > There are other people who do follow gurus and get sucked into cults> etc., and for them, it can matter alot.> > Dear Rob: > > My wife had a friend that died in Jonesville: > That was part of his purification leading toward the LIGHT.> > So many that I have known were violated by so called false gurus.> In fact Roy Horn who is a Ramana devotee was really violated by a guru. He> brought Ramana and Nisargadatta to us when we invited him for dinner.> Upon reading the first 30 pages of 'I Am That" I got quite a rush. Then I was hooked forever > on this path.> > Whether you were violated by a guru or died in some sort of holocaust, those horrendous events> were God's will and actually accelerate our return to the SOURCE.> > Do you think anything can go wrong with someone's sadhana? Does God makes mistakes.> > Love and Namaste,> AltonSG: and who forces them to choose a certain Guru ..... You chase after what you want to hear ....... if powers you will go to one that claims siddhis .... if you want a mother and mothering you will go to Amachi.... if not wanting to live within the dictates of society you will gravitate to an Osho .... if you don't want to run your life you will go to a cult ...... so you go and learn a lesson one way or another ....... the lessons learned are different for each and within each lesson is a doorway ..... it is up to us to find it ......... the type of Guru you need is that which you will find ...... the lessons may not though be that which you are projecting that you want ..... but more that which you need or are willing to accept ....... Well stated. I copy that.

Love,

Alton ...

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Thanks to everyone for the dialogues and the fact that you might miss someone LIKE me.

I will miss everyone too.

 

Maybe a little time online tomorrow.

Love,

Alton

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Hi Ganga,

 

> Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does non-dual

> reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and friction

> is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> what friction may remain ?

 

A jnani would not be bothered by friction. Friction,

smoothness, argument, sugar syrup -- what's the difference

to a jnani? All friction is only an appearance to a jnani.

 

You tell us friction only occurs when people see things

dualistically, and you also tell us that you perceive friction here --

haha -- you're undercutting your own pretensions here.

 

> If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature and

> disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> other to have friction against

 

If no thoughts ripple the mind, then we wouldn't be writing

letters to each other.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob

 

 

-

" alak_azam " <alak_azam

<Realization >

Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:16 PM

Re: Hello I am new here

>

> Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does non-dual

> reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and friction

> is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> what friction may remain ?

> If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature and

> disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no point

> of reference in which subject object are in competition for there

> is only One Essense and One Self.

> Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to find

> discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> fabrications of separation ?

>

> Alak_azam < just one view along the road >

>

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Dear Rob:

 

If you don't mind answering sort of a difficult question. If you do please skip this one.

 

I have noticed that you seem to have quite a different attitude toward possibly two Enlightened and or Realized beings.

 

You seem to worship Judy who gets off on personal attacks and are cold to Alak. Anyway that is what I noticed from my own conditioned psyche.

 

How come?

 

Love and respects,

Alton

 

 

 

Hi Ganga,> outed me from what ? From your pseudonym. In other words, she made usrealize that Alak was Ganga.> do you know why it was there ? Why what was there? Are you asking if I know whyyou hid your identity? I have no idea. I don't want toknow, either. It makes no difference to me.> > i am sure you have lots of assumptions and more than likely all > wrong ....I'm really just trying to have a conversation with you. Youmake it very difficult. I've tried to talk to you since youcame into this forum. I answered all your questions as politely as I could.Best regards,Rob- "alak_azam" <alak_azam<Realization >Wednesday, November 05, 2003 5:41 PM Re: Hello I am new here> Realization , "Rob Sacks" <editor@r...> > wrote:> > > Stop and sit in the stillness it will come ...... > > > > Oh come on, stop being silly. Tell me what you meant.> > I'd like to respond. It would be interesting.> > > > By the way, I love the way the trademark ellipses> > (....) came back as soon as Onniko outed you.> > > > I have to admit the missing ellipses fooled me. That's> > how shallow I am -- I can be fooled by punctuation> > marks. :)> > > > Best regards,> > > > Rob> > outed me from what ? do you know why it was there ? > i am sure you have lots of assumptions and more than likely all > wrong ....> > there is one who knows why ..... the rest only assume they > know and then act from imagination........ > > for the rest it stands ---- quit thinking about it ....... let the mind > settle and then see what remains ........>

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Thanks Onniko.

 

> Honest.

 

We can tell. :) The words carry their own stamp of authenticity.

A good example of what you were saying earlier. When people

describe something they've really seen, they put it into their own

words, their own natural living unique words, and the sentences glow.

 

-

" Onniko " <onniko

<Realization >

Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:22 PM

Re: Hello I am new here

 

> Without time, there can be no first one or last one. Without

> separation, there can be no competition or lack. The human in us

> feels lonely and yearns for the formless but the formless gives

> birth to the world, human included, with the joy of creativity. To

> keep our minds going, we have to do just that: keep them going. The

> electricity has to dance, the patterns have to keep dividing and

> subdividing. But, whether they divided once or a kazillion times,

> they all return in an instant to what they originated from. We can

> follow the music for a million miles and still, the moment we stop,

> we're right where we started and not a moment has actually passed.

> Honest.

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Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...>

wrote:

> Hi Ganga,

>

> > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does non-dual

> > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

friction

> > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > what friction may remain ?

>

> A jnani would not be bothered by friction. Friction,

> smoothness, argument, sugar syrup -- what's the difference

> to a jnani? All friction is only an appearance to a jnani.

>

> You tell us friction only occurs when people see things

> dualistically, and you also tell us that you perceive friction here

--

> haha -- you're undercutting your own pretensions here.

>

> > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

and

> > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> > other to have friction against

>

> If no thoughts ripple the mind, then we wouldn't be writing

> letters to each other.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Rob

 

 

Using your logic why do you have a site at all ?

 

 

 

>

>

> -

> " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

> <Realization >

> Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:16 PM

> Re: Hello I am new here

> >

> > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does

non-dual

> > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

friction

> > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > what friction may remain ?

> > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

and

> > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> > other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no

point

> > of reference in which subject object are in competition for

there

> > is only One Essense and One Self.

> > Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to

find

> > discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> > present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> > fabrications of separation ?

> >

> > Alak_azam < just one view along the road >

> >

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Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

wrote:

> Realization , " Rob Sacks "

<editor@r...> wrote:

> > > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't matter

> if

> > > you had or hadn't.

> >

> > People imagine that seeing the dog is a gigantic attainment.

> > They pride themselves on it. It bolsters their ego. Naturally

> > they feel insulted if you say they haven't seen it.

> >

> > > What you might react to, though, is your own

> > > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > > difference.

> >

> > I think maybe you have to be a jnani to see that there's

> > no difference. The rest of us find it difficult to believe.

> > Except temporarily when we see like jnanis do.

>

> Without time, there can be no first one or last one. Without

> separation, there can be no competition or lack. The human in

us

> feels lonely and yearns for the formless but the formless gives

> birth to the world, human included, with the joy of creativity. To

> keep our minds going, we have to do just that: keep them

going. The

> electricity has to dance, the patterns have to keep dividing and

> subdividing. But, whether they divided once or a kazillion times,

> they all return in an instant to what they originated from. We can

> follow the music for a million miles and still, the moment we

stop,

> we're right where we started and not a moment has actually

passed.

> Honest.

 

 

Who are you trying to convince ?

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Hi Ganga,

 

> Using your logic why do you have a site at all ?

 

I'm sorry I don't understand this. I really don't. What's

your line of thinking here?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

-

" alak_azam " <alak_azam

<Realization >

Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:44 PM

Re: Hello I am new here

 

 

>

>

> Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...>

> wrote:

> > Hi Ganga,

> >

> > > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does non-dual

> > > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

> friction

> > > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > > what friction may remain ?

> >

> > A jnani would not be bothered by friction. Friction,

> > smoothness, argument, sugar syrup -- what's the difference

> > to a jnani? All friction is only an appearance to a jnani.

> >

> > You tell us friction only occurs when people see things

> > dualistically, and you also tell us that you perceive friction here

> --

> > haha -- you're undercutting your own pretensions here.

> >

> > > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

> and

> > > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> > > other to have friction against

> >

> > If no thoughts ripple the mind, then we wouldn't be writing

> > letters to each other.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Rob

>

>

> Using your logic why do you have a site at all ?

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > -

> > " alak_azam " <alak_azam>

> > <Realization >

> > Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:16 PM

> > Re: Hello I am new here

> > >

> > > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ? Does

> non-dual

> > > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

> friction

> > > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > > what friction may remain ?

> > > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

> and

> > > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> > > other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no

> point

> > > of reference in which subject object are in competition for

> there

> > > is only One Essense and One Self.

> > > Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to

> find

> > > discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> > > present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> > > fabrications of separation ?

> > >

> > > Alak_azam < just one view along the road >

> > >

>

>

>

> ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........

>

> Email addresses:

> Post message: Realization

> Un: Realization-

> Our web address: http://www.realization.org

>

> By sending a message to this list, you are giving

> permission to have it reproduced as a letter on

> http://www.realization.org

> ................................................

>

>

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Hi Alton,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

 

 

> Whether you were violated by a guru or died in some

> sort of holocaust, those horrendous events

> were God's will and actually accelerate our return to the SOURCE.

 

You seem to be saying that when a person does a bad thing,

it's God's will.

 

But when somebody takes an action that stops a bad

thing, it's not God's will.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why aren't they both

God's will?

 

Why isn't it God's will for a friend to talk a friend out of

enlisting in a creepy cult?

 

> Do you think anything can go wrong with someone's sadhana?

 

Just as much as with any other type of activity. Sadhana is

no more and no less holy than anything else.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

-

ESSENTIAL I

Realization

Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:34 PM

Re: Re: Hello I am new here

 

 

 

 

Atlon: If someone claims that Realization, I accept what they

> claim. What does it matter to me.

 

Rob: Yes but Alton, it doesn't matter to YOU because you're not the

type of person who follows gurus. You're ornery and independent.

There are other people who do follow gurus and get sucked into cults

etc., and for them, it can matter alot.

 

Dear Rob:

 

My wife had a friend that died in Jonesville:

That was part of his purification leading toward the LIGHT.

 

So many that I have known were violated by so called false gurus.

In fact Roy Horn who is a Ramana devotee was really violated by a guru. He

brought Ramana and Nisargadatta to us when we invited him for dinner.

Upon reading the first 30 pages of 'I Am That" I got quite a rush. Then I was hooked forever

on this path.

 

Whether you were violated by a guru or died in some sort of holocaust, those horrendous events

were God's will and actually accelerate our return to the SOURCE.

 

Do you think anything can go wrong with someone's sadhana? Does God makes mistakes.

 

Love and Namaste,

Alton

 

 

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Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

wrote:

> Realization , " alak_azam "

<alak_azam>

> wrote:

> > Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

> > wrote:

> > > It's like this. If you had never seen a dog but I didn't know if

> you

> > > had or not and I told you about one that I'd seen, and if then

> you

> > > told me " Oh, yes, of course, I know. It is an energy pattern

like

> > > everything else " I would then realize that you'd never seen a

> > real

> > > live dog.

> > >

> > > Would it be insulting if I told you that? No, it doesn't matter

> if

> > > you had or hadn't. What you might react to, though, is your

own

> > > silliness about trying to hide that fact as if it did make a

> > > difference.

> > >

> >

> > Why is this causing such a strong reaction ?

>

>

> Maybe, Devi will know why it is when she finds out who you are.

>

>

> Does non-dual

> > reality contain points to rub against ? Isn't that friction and

> friction

> > is only in place and maintained within the cognition of duality

> > where there are two. When a letting go of this division occurs

> > what friction may remain ?

> > If no thoughts ripple the mind as they are are dual in nature

> and

> > disturb the clarity of stillness, then there is nothing to create

> > other to have friction against . Pure awareness needs no

point

> > of reference in which subject object are in competition for

there

> > is only One Essense and One Self.

> > Why lose the beauty of this moment in wasteful attempts to

find

> > discord ? Why to seek for duality when non-duality is ever

> > present to those who simply do not choose to chase mental

> > fabrications of separation ?

>

> You are the only one so far to mention any dischord, Ganga.

Everyone

> else has spoken of acceptance of you just as you are. You

chose

> rather to protect your self-image from imaginary attcks even

while

> being an imaginary person.

 

 

you know that is funny...... see it how you will .....

 

are you happy ? i hope so then you can let go of your attempts

at confrontation ...... there is nothing to confront ......

 

Who's mind is ruffled ? could it be the one who thinks they are

reveling some big dark secret about another .......

 

look at your motives and answer one question, just what part of

Love are they coming from?

 

your anger has clearly got the best of you ..... that is not coming

from Non-dual awareness nor the Peace that remains in the

midst of all happenings........

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Realization , " Onniko " <onniko>

wrote:

 

> B I N G O, B I N G O, B I N G O, and Bingo was her name O,

haha!

 

what part of love is this ?

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Realization , " ESSENTIAL I "

<unbound@h...> wrote:

> Atlon: If someone claims that Realization, I accept what they

> > claim. What does it matter to me.

>

> Rob: Yes but Alton, it doesn't matter to YOU because you're

not the

> type of person who follows gurus. You're ornery and

independent.

> There are other people who do follow gurus and get sucked

into cults

> etc., and for them, it can matter alot.

>

> Dear Rob:

>

> My wife had a friend that died in Jonesville:

> That was part of his purification leading toward the LIGHT.

>

> So many that I have known were violated by so called false

gurus.

> In fact Roy Horn who is a Ramana devotee was really violated

by a guru. He

> brought Ramana and Nisargadatta to us when we invited him

for dinner.

> Upon reading the first 30 pages of 'I Am That " I got quite a

rush. Then I was hooked forever

> on this path.

>

> Whether you were violated by a guru or died in some sort of

holocaust, those horrendous events

> were God's will and actually accelerate our return to the

SOURCE.

>

> Do you think anything can go wrong with someone's

sadhana? Does God makes mistakes.

>

> Love and Namaste,

> Alton

 

 

SG: and who forces them to choose a certain Guru .....

You chase after what you want to hear .......

 

if powers you will go to one that claims siddhis ....

 

if you want a mother and mothering you will go to Amachi....

 

if not wanting to live within the dictates of society you will

gravitate to an Osho ....

 

if you don't want to run your life you will go to a cult ......

 

so you go and learn a lesson one way or another .......

the lessons learned are different for each and within each

lesson is a doorway ..... it is up to us to find it .........

 

the type of Guru you need is that which you will find ......

 

the lessons may not though be that which you are projecting

that you want ..... but more that which you need or are willing

to accept .......

 

 

 

 

 

 

....

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Realization , " ESSENTIAL I "

<unbound@h...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > devi: to me it means the same thing as stopping the

movie...

> > Alton: When the movie stops does that means the one in

the

> audience no longer exists, or does it mean that the

consciousness ate

> up the consciouness? And then what?

>

> devi: the ONE in the audiance ceases to be an audiance

becasue theres

> nothing to watch...then whatever is God's will?

>

> The ONE in the audience as long as they are in this world

remains both the audience and the knower of the silence. But

not while in samadhi. Who can stay in permanent samadhi and

be embodied? Ramana said he had thoughts when reading or

being asked a question. So even his samadhi was intermittent.

OK Rob tell me I am wrong.

> Aloha,

> Alton

 

* but they were like wisps on the wind and no attachment to

them was there ...... so samadhi remains .....

 

like seeing the rope which was taken for a snake .... no ripple

remains in the seeing once the illusory delusion is

uncovered......

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> Ramana said he had thoughts when reading or

> being asked a question. So even his samadhi was

> intermittent. OK Rob tell me I am wrong.

 

I think I'm going to start charging for these homework assignments.

 

Sri Ramana said he was in a state of sahaja samadhi which is

continuous. He described how thoughts (and everything else) appear

in this state as follows:

 

"In sahaja, however, the mind has resolved itself into the Self and

has been lost.... The activities of such a being are like the feeding

of a somnolent boy, perceptible to an onlooker (but not to the

subject). The driver sleeping on his moving cart is not aware of

the motion of the cart, because his mind is sunk in darkness.

Similarly the sahaja jnani remains unaware of his bodily activities

because his mind is dead -- having been resolved in the ecstasy of

Chid Ananada (Self)."

 

-- From Talks, Article 187.

 

 

-

ESSENTIAL I

Realization

Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:38 PM

Re: Re: Hello I am new here

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Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...>

wrote:

> Hi Ganga,

>

> > Using your logic why do you have a site at all ?

>

> I'm sorry I don't understand this. I really don't. What's

> your line of thinking here?

>

> Regards,

>

> Rob

 

 

Stop and sit in the stillness it will come ......

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>

> The ONE in the audience as long as they are in this world remains

both the audience and the knower of the silence. But not while in

samadhi. Who can stay in permanent samadhi and be embodied? Ramana

said he had thoughts when reading or being asked a question. So even

his samadhi was intermittent. OK Rob tell me I am wrong.

> Aloha,

> Alton

 

devi: alton, there are bodies that are occupied by realized beings,

but the realized beings don't know it, don't realzie that they still

have bodies...there are so many different conglomorations of what

happens after realiztion,,.its a facinating subject...i think we

don't really know all of what ramana perceived after his *realiztion*

meher baba felt as if he was all-knowing, omnipotent, omnipresent,

omnicient God,,,did ramana have that too but just didn't talk about

it? we'll never know

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