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Sanatan, I remember reading somewhere once that a passing stranger once fed you some dog meat when you were alone once as a very young child. However, i cannot remember where I read that... can you provide me with some evidence to rebut this?


Thanks in advance for your cooperation.


I see what you're getting at...I can't produce proof to that effect. Similarly, I've produced no proof, even a reliable hint, that Srila Madhvacarya lent his ear to some Christians.


Any statement that I ate dog-meat as a child, in the absence of documented evidence or reliable witnesses, is purely hearsay.


However, as an aside...though to my own recollection, no one ever fed me meat of dog, I did have a pet dog as a child, and I once tried eating some dog food. It was horrible. And that's straight from the source!






Now you can see why I have both of the above individuals on my ignore list.


Somehow, that's not hard to see at all.

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The Marginal living entity



It is very important to understand that there is only one characteristic of the jiva tattva or marginal living entity (tatastha-sakti) that is expressed as either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha. And both even appear to simultaneously exist but the fact is they do not, factually when one exists the other doesn’t.

Fall down is very real but only from the concept of time (eternal presents) and NOT consciousness. Conscious ‘awareness’ of the marginal living entities situation is always one, either nitya-siddha or nitya baddha – never both simultaneously.

It may appear to be simultaneous but that’s because the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka is existing simultaneously with the past, present and future of the material creation (mahat-tattva).

It’s nothing to do with consciousness, it is to do with time that gives the impression we are in Goloka eternally even if our ‘awareness’ of reality is in the mahat-tattva – can you understand what I am trying to communicate?

In other words, due to the concept of Goloka Lila time and mahat-tattva mundane time it appears there is a division of consciousness because it is said ones svarupa body is perpetually in Goloka even if one is experiencing existence in the mahat-tattva.

Actually this is not the case because it only appears there is a division of consciousness i.e. the eternal present devoid of past and future = nitya siddha, the past, present and future = nitya baddha.

The fact is, either the jiva tattva is in Goloka’s eternal present in full awareness (as nitya-siddha) or is in the mahat-tattva of past, present and future a (as nitya-baddha) as far is awareness is concerned, it is not possible to be in these two places at once.

This is where the dream analogy has its flaw because technically it is NOT a dream, it is real. What is happening is one falls out of sync with the eternal present of Vaikuntha. No one therefore is ‘dreaming’ they are in the mahat-tattva because they ARE factually in the mahat-tattva – therefore it is no dream as we know it, it is very real!

The baddha-jiva soul is real and is 10,000<SUP>th</SUP> the size of a tip of hair. Being in the mahat-tattva is not a dream as we foolishly interpret the word ‘dream’ based on our biological bodily experience.

The dreams of Maha-Vishnu and the dreams of the jiva soul are real, just temporary. . This is what ‘the dream’ means from the Srimad Bhagavatams point of view and has nothing to do with the mundane English dictionary meaning of the word dream.

In book one it was explained how the living entity leaves Goloka in a projected dream state however technically that is not exactly correct because there is NEVER a division of consciousness because it is all to do with the division of time.

One can never be nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha simultaneously, it is ether one or the other Things have been explained to make people read into my writing that there are two characteristics of the jiva, two separate identities, no, this idea is wrong.

Whether one is consciously acting or subconsciously acting, it is still the same person, the same consciousness.

Where the understanding needs to be concentrated is with the all important division of time and not consciousness.

It is that division of time “the eternal present” and the ‘past, present and future” that gives the idea that the nitya siddha body and the nitya baddha consciousness exist simultaneously. As far as the important understanding of where the marginal living entity is at, they certainly on the individual ‘awareness’ level do not and never have existed simultaneously.

The fact is, regardless of the eternal presents of Goloka, one is either in Goloka or the material world, if they are in the material world then even though it is said their svarupa body is eternally in Goloka, the fact is they are not aware of that and are definitely and certainly NOT in Goloka.

This is important to realize.The fact is one is really only in Goloka when they are aware they are in Goloka and the fact is most of us are presently NOT in Goloka. So therefore, saying that our svarupa body is perpetually in Goloka can be a cope out because the fact is we are NOT in Goloka to realize that, for all intense purposes we are not in Goloka, we have fallen to the material world, not as some projection as I described earlier in my book, no, it’s not like that, it’s more of a relocation than a projection.

Due to free will and choice, we actually fall to the material world due to being out of sync with the eternal presents of Goloka.

The Crow-and-Fruit Philosophy is not the last word by Prabhupada on other occasions told us to try and understand, the exact opposite to those instructions he gave us in Australia in 1972.

Obviously he spoke according to the reception-ability of his audience. His inner circle of devotees he definitely revealed more to than even what is in his books; I experienced this myself in Sydney when he spoke intimately about the past times of Radha and Krishna and what he had personally told me.

Srila Prabhupada told me once in the Sydney Temple room in early 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying

Some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally feel down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand..

We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.

Here is Srila Prabhupada's response.

Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.

Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.

Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”

Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.

Acyutananda - “He can return”.

Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya




zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya



Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan

Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976 Questions to Srila Prabhupada of how we fell down from Goloka, (not as our nitya-siddha body) as our dreaming nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness

Srila Prabhupada - “So as eternal servitors of Krishna—our constitutional position—we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall”. Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967

This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE.


The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.

We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s'skti IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy, jiva-soul or tatastha-s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation as Akruranatha prabhu and Shiva also correctly explained to us.

The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serving the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.

Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva souls sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.

Therefore JIVA TATASTHA refers to us, the living entities who are presently covered by the transitory inferior material energy (ethereal and biological vessels)

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How have we fallen to the material world?

We have all attained our present condition of existence in the material creation due to firstly choosing between the Lord’s two energies. We all have our genuine place or full Krishna Conscious potential in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is everlastingly there, yet also always have the choice to remain aware of our perpetual svarupa body and genuine identity in Vaikuntha that is constantly serving Krishna.

We therefore can use our God given ‘marginal’ free will to foolishly enter the perishable universe of imagination and fleeting dreams as our mistaken desires and thoughts to achieve absolute power over all I purvey.

However, in our forgetful state we forget that all our desires, dreams and thoughts are given the facility to exist only by the mercy of Maha-Vishnu who is the great facilitator of His maha-tattva creation.

Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy because they ARE the marginal energy and are therefore ETERNALLY called jiva-tatastha.

The marginal living beings (jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti) are autonomous expansion of Lord Krishna that has no beginning, no origin, or ending. They can choose to remain Krishna Conscious in their full devotional potential or transcendental body under the loving supervision of the superior energy (Krishna in Goloka or Vishnu in Vaikuntha), or be covered by

the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) In both cases the Supreme Lord is the origin and maintainer of the living entities, whether in their perpetual natural ‘svarupa’ Krishna conscious devotional service in Goloka or Vaikuntha, or if they have chosen to miss use their free will to abandon who they really are by entering the transitory illusionary dreams of greatness and chasing such desires within Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming temporary creation (mahat tattva).

"If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal". (See CC Adi 2.96)

“The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present. Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time”. Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

The statement above clearly explains how the imperishable higher feature of the jiva-tatastha is ones eternal ’svarupa Krishna Conscious body’ which is ones perpetual constitutional position that is eternal present in Vaikuntha. The permanent characteristic of the jiva tatastha is ones eternal svarupa body which is the perpetual constitutional original position of all marginal living beings.

Consequently the secondary conscious characteristic of the jiva tatastha that becomes covered by the inferior energy or mahat-tattva, is nothing other than a dreaming condition that temporarily exists while the one unconscious of their full constitutional bodily foundation in Goloka. The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have always existed without beginning or end.

Srila Prabhupada explains this –


“For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?” Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.20 - 21

“The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same”. Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.23 - 24

In conclusion, the marginal living entities (tatastha s’akti) nitya-siddha identity is perpetually beyond the mundane decaying effect of time and space in the material creation (mahat-tattva) and is ‘always’ in Goloka. In other words ones eternal svarupa is always in Goloka.

Tatastha s’akti refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being (you and I) and IS ‘our’ perpetual identity, personality, individuality and desires that communicate our own autonomous way of thinking of how to serve and please Krishna in a selfless manner, that remains that way for all eternity.

This loving exchange or reciprocation with Krishna and His devotees is the purpose of all marginal living entities and why they have free will. It is simply there so the living entity can express their own splendid loving exchanges of humble devotion service and gratitude to Krishna, in their own unique way. If there is no such choice of expression and free will, then how can there be love?

We therefore eternally exist independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Lord Krishna), where our authentic everlasting genuine bodily self is always serving Krishna, or we can ignore Krishna and who we really are altogether, and take shelter (not as a perpetual svarupa body) within the perishable inferior energy (mahat-tattva material creation) of Maha Vishnu

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally the living entity is a spiritual being, but when he actually desires to enjoy this material world, he comes down. From this verse we can understand that the living entity first accepts a body that is human in form, but gradually, due to his degraded activities, he falls into lower forms of life into the animal, plant and aquatic forms". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-nine, Text 4

Having rebelled against the principles of Krsna consciousness, we are cut off from our original position in Goloka as nitya siddha. We have fallen to the material world in our dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness.

Srila Prabhupada - "By the gradual process of evolution, the living entity again attains the body of a human being and is given another chance to get out of the process of transmigration. If he again misses his chance in the human form to understand his position, he is again placed in the cycle of birth and death in various types of bodies". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-nine, Text 4

Srila Prabhupada - "we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama phale. Anadi means before the creation. We living entities, we are eternal. Even the creation is annihilated after millions and trillions of years, the living entities, they are not annihilated". Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1973 730806BG.LON

Srila PRABHUPADA - "When a living entity falls down to the material world, however, he has to accept a material body, and therefore, in his material embodiment, he cannot be called acyuta. Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty, Text 37

Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from his real engagement in the service of the Lord, the living entity gets a material body to suffer or try to enjoy in the miserable material conditions of life. Therefore the fallen living entity is cyuta, whereas the Lord is called acyuta".Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty, Text 37 PURPORT

Srila Prabhupada - "By endeavouring to dominate material nature, the living entity simply struggles hard for existence. Indeed, he struggles so hard to enjoy himself that he cannot even enjoy the material resources. Thus he is sometimes called prakrti, or jiva, for he is situated in the marginal potency”. Canto 4 Chapter Twenty-four, Text 28

Srila Prabhupada – “When the living entity is covered with the three modes of material nature, he is called jiva-samjnita. There are two kinds of living entities: one is called ksara, and the other is aksara. Ksara refers to those who have fallen down and BECAME conditioned, and aksara refers to those who are not conditioned". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4 Chapter Twenty-four, Text 28

Originally ALL living entities are aksara

Srila Prabhupada - "The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude.

When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world.

Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His svamsa expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity.

In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 53

Srila Prabhupada - "The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world.

In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world.

However, when the living entity wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 54

Shiva dasa from ISKCON – “The jiva is the marginal living entity (tatastha sakti of the Lord), also called the jiva sakti or marginal potency, the jiva doesn’t go there, it is not a place you can go to, it is what he is”.

Shiva writes well on the tatastha sakti subject but does not comprehend the ‘dream’ concept of the marginal living entity that Prabhupada talks about. After all Maha Vishnu is laying down in the Causal Ocean dreaming the entire material creation I am surprised Shiva dasa cannot understand that our existence in the material creation is merely the dream of the spirit soul.

Shiva dasa’s understanding of tatastha is very basic and well explained as the following quotes reveal

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

Srila Prabhupada – “It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

Srila Prabhupada – “Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains these verses as follows: Sri Sanatana Gosvami asked Sri Srila “Caitanya Mahaprabhu, “Who am I?” In answer, the Lord replied, “You are a pure living entity. You are neither the gross material body nor the subtle body composed of mind and intelligence”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually you are a spirit soul, eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krsna. Therefore you are His eternal servant. You belong to Krsna’s marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

Srila Prabhupada – “You are related with Krsna as one and simultaneously different. Because you are spirit soul, you are one in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but because you are a very minute particle of spirit soul, you are different from the Supreme Soul”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore your position is simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Soul. The examples given are those of the sun itself and the small particles of sunshine and of a blazing fire and the small particles of fire.” Another explanation of these verses can be found in Adi-lila, Chapter Two, verse 96.

In his Paramatma Sandarbha Jiva Goswami writes:

In this way it has been explained that although the purusa- avatara is a single person, He nevertheless expands in many different forms. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has two kinds of expansions: 1. svamsa (personal expansions), and 2. vibhinnamsa (separated expansions). The Lord’s separated expansions are the individual spirit souls, who are all the Lord’s marginal potency (tatastha-sakti).

The Lord’s personal expansions are His many incarnations, such as His guna-avatars and lila-avataras. The Lord’s lila-avataras and other incarnations will be described later in the Sri Krsna-sandarbha.

Thus the Lord’s marginal [tatasthah] potencies, who are called the individual spirit souls are limitless in number. Still, they may be divided into two groups: 1. the souls who, from time immemorial, are favorable to the Supreme Lord, and 2. the rebellious souls who, from time immemorial, are averse to the Supreme Lord. This is because one group is aware of the Lord’s glories and the other group is not aware of them”.

(NOTE – Shiva does not explain that even all the conditioned marginal living entities originally came from Goloka long, long, long, long, long ago before they were considered eternally conditioned or nitya- baddha, Even the merging into the body of Maha Vishnu or entering the impersonal Brahmajyoti in ONLY achieved via the inferior nitya-baddha consciousness.)

Shiva dasa continues – “The first group consists of Garuda and the other eternal associates of the Lord, These devotees take shelter of the Lord’s internal potency and enjoy pastimes with Him.

They reside in the spiritual world, which will be described in the Bhagavat- sandarbha (anuccheda 78) where the following words of Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda are quoted:

“Countless blissful spiritual planets are in the spiritual sky, which is three fourths of the entire creation.”

Thus, although the nature of the individual souls is on the borderline of the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the individual souls do not enter that nature. Thus they remain different from the Lord.

In this way we have described the Lord’s marginal potency. we have already described the Lord’s internal potency.

This is from Srila Prabhupada’s “Teachings of Lord Caitanya”

The supreme knowledge of Krsna is exhibited in three different energies - internal, marginal and external.

By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy (tatastha sakti), He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy.

Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.

This is from “Sri Caitanya’s Teachings” by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

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Vishnu has three energies, one of them is meant for manifestation of His eternal Abode, another potency is for creating all human souls who are emanation from His Tatastha-sakti found between the temporal

and eternal worlds. By this potency He creates human souls.

The human soul has two different predilections. If he desires to serve God-head he is allowed into the eternal Region. If he desires to lord it over this world he comes down for enjoying in different capacities the products of the Deluding potency.

that does not change like this world. These potencies belo

This position, which is like a geometrical line, is designated tatastha-sakti, the fountain-head of all human souls. Tatastha-sakti is located between the two potencies of Vishnu one of which maintains this transforming world and the other is the source of the manifestation of the eternal world ng to the Personality of God-head Vishnu

Shiva dasa – “Tathastha does not refer to a place, it does not possess a locative meaning in the sense of being in a particular spot. Tatastha has an ontological meaning. The jiva is a sakti of the Lord, it exists as neither Cit Sakti nor as Maya Sakti, we exist in between these two categories of saktis, therefore we are called Tatastha. The place where water, as in a river an ocean or lake, where it meets the land, that is called tata”.

Shiva dasa “The Cit Sakti is represented by the water and the Maya Sakti us represented by the land. Since we are neither the Maya Sakti nor the Cit Sakti, neither the water or the land, we are called tatastha, or the in-between the water and the land. The tide can cause us to be submerged in water or the tide can retreat and we can become left on the land. The jiva can be influenced and come under the dominion of the Cit Sakti or of the Maya Sakti. Either was the constitutional position of the jiva is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, on the margin or border between 2 other potencies.

Srila Prabhupada – “It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy”. END OF SHIVA’S UNDERSTANDING

Srila Prabhupada -”The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service”(Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban)

Srila Prabhupada - “The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul’s choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22

Srila Prabhupada clearly states “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what your relationship with Krishna is automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what his relationship with Krishna is, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM, THINK OR IMAGINE WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky. In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we all originate from Goloka.

The dreams of the living entity are real but temporary. Correct reality however is imperishable, permanent, without decay and without past or future. Everything is already there and always has beenIndependent self centred dreams of the living entity in Goloka however, are project instantaneously, such ‘dreams’ or ‘thoughts’ are very real and are not illusion because they go on to really exist in the mahat-tattva, which is the material creation governed by Maha Vishnu.

Stop thinking in terms of your dreams in your material body, it's not like that --

Dreams in your head while sleeping are illusions.You are conditioned by mundane education to believe 'dreams' are illusion. The dreams of Maha Vishnu below are different and so are ours from our eternal nitya-siddha body. Fall down is real but only from the concept of time and not consciousness. Dreaming from Goloka however, is not like that; the nitya-baddha jiva state is real and described as 10.000th the size of a tip of hair. Due to the fact that the baddha-jiva is consciousness forgetful of its eternal form, many yogis, philosophers and Vedantists, believe the soul or jiva is formless. They think this way because they have no information of the jiva’s permanent home, Goloka-Vrndavana. Even in the mundane heavenly worlds, ones thoughts, dreams and desires are as real as the reality they live in ...

In Goloka however, independent thoughts not of pleasing Krishna, instantaneously puts one in Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva material creation that is depicted in a darker circle above


We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago

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