The imperative of personal forgiveness.

[theist]

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

 

21ThenPeter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive mybrother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.^[f]

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents^[g] was brought to him. 25Sincehe was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and hischildren and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.^[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31Whenthe other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressedand went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Thenthe master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'Icanceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

[melvin]

 

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

 

21ThenPeter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive mybrother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.<SUP>[f]</SUP>

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents<SUP>[g]</SUP> was brought to him. 25Sincehe was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and hischildren and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.<SUP>[h]</SUP> He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31Whenthe other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressedand went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Thenthe master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'Icanceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

 

Taken from a song

 

The road is long

Where there is no return

No burden is he

To bear we`ll get there

For I know

It doesn`t bother me at all

He aint heavy

He`s my brother

... He aint heavy

He`s my brother

[theist]

One of the dangers I see of not being personally introspective in regards to spiritual life is one never feels compelled to face his inner demons. But such a person not being introspective will just assume that he has all bases covered simply by being an active church or temple member. Being real active in all temple functions a person can feel he has no need for anything more. One can pass a lifetime in this way not even aware of the evil of his personal hatreds and resentments he harbours towards others.

 

An example could be this band of "christians" that travel around holding "God hates fags" rallies. In these rallies they pour torrents of abuse on homosexuals telling all they are doomed to eternal torment in hell.

 

Now I have only disgust for the homosexual lifestyle but the so-called homosexuals themselves are really spirit souls battling their own inner demons just as straight people battle theirs.

 

That is an extreme example but what about less obvious ones like the hidden resentments we harbor against those who we perceive as having wronged us in the past. The terrible temple president we had in the 70's or 80's. Do we secretly blame him for our own lack of advancment in spiritual life?

 

The chains that bind us to samsara are very subtle and the key to freeing ourselves from these chains is held by each one of us.

 

The key is forgiveness. Forgiveness offered freely to others and received humbled from the Lord.

 

 

Introspection is the act of picking up the key. Turning the key to unlock the rusty lock in our heqarts can be extremely difficult but the Lord will help us.

[jeffster]

Theist, your post # 3, very nicely put. I know that I have unresolved resentments in my own heart, won't go to a certain temple because of certain personalities there. I just mostly stay in the gri-hut and do my own bhajan, associate a bit with you good folk here, read some books and chant some japa. Although, we ARE supposed to go to temple today a bit later, more for my wife's benefit that my own, I feel. I rarely go, so it is quite a novelty.

 

Forgiveness means being able to cut others some slack by understanding that really, we are no better than them, and that we have all made mistakes and offenses in our relationships. Being unforgiving suggests arrogance, and arrogance is characterized by lack of introspection. If we introspect, we can see that we are an ocean of faults ourselves, so how could we not forgive others when we ourselves are so faulty ? Forgiveness is an acquired taste and takes practice. Happy Christ-mass.

jeffster/AM das

[theist]

And happy Christ-mass to you Amji,

 

Yes it takes practice. I have been consciously working on forgiving my parents and although I have tempered my anger down considerably i am still far from actually forgiving them.

 

In truth no one has been the cause of our being wronged. in life. We are living the life we made for ourselves in previous births and Krishna is the ultimate controller. So who is there to be mad at?

 

Unfortunately I know these things on a shallow mental plane level. Until realized from a clear heart it's hard to live.

 

My favorite example of forgivnessand the one Prabhupada used most was Christ praying to the Krishna that He forgive the opnes who put Him there because they knew not what they were doing.

 

The pure lover of Krishna doesn't need to work through all the garbage to learn to forgive anyone. Knowing Krishna is in controller he takes no offense at all. I can't even imagine it.

[bija]

 

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Nice verse.

 

The nature of giving and receiving offence lies in one's own heart, and so does peace.

 

Vedic thought presents the idea that the heart gets tainted or colored by the material elements. Sometimes I see the seeds of unforgiveness (that have not yet sprouted) like a big machine that lie in a strata above the earth (a collective noosphere - atmosphere) - fundamental blocks of pradhana (material energy). The unformed seed blocks drive our heart, manifesting, and creating suffering (due to wrong desire), and when we act upon them we again feed the collective drives...and the development deepens. A wheel of samsara. An evolution of suffering.

 

We are all inter-connected. Nothing is seperate from the self. This is also applicable in the conditioned life, due to material energy being one fundamental block in its unformed seed state.

 

The enlightened soul, by broad vision, can change that bind of the machine by being unnattached and performing duty in the mode of goodness. With that non-passion the noosphere can be activated to feed goodness (in its cycle). And eventually the soul (and its greater connections - atmosphere) will perceive God consciousness and pure evolution.

 

So really the area of the heart is the centre of what happens, as Jesus is suggesting. Full responsibility is our lot in life. And eventually a new earth.

 

The heavenly father is kind to his devotee, and the devotee understands through that kindness the way of the father. God consciousness. The devotee out of love chooses to move toward the Omega point...and to create an atmosphere of peace. To live well in mother earth.

 

Cultivate gratitude, cultivate honesty, cultivate your heart!

 

Cultivate love...then we will have the new earth coming!

 

Do not cultivate doubt!

 

You are it...a member of the new earth that is!

Or as Jeff puts it much more simply:

If we introspect, we can see that we are an ocean of faults ourselves, so how could we not forgive others when we ourselves are so faulty ?

*note the word atmosphere and atman have a similar root.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin

 

[AncientMariner]

I have had terrible issues with my father in the past. He left my mother and I at a young age. I lived with him in High School and he had a girlfriend who had two daughters. I was always in pain in that situation as I didn't feel like they were my family so to escape the pain I studied hard at school got good grades and I excelled at sports. The more success I had with that stuff the more my father started living through my academic and sports accomplishments. I became like a trophy to him and the fact was that he was not there emotionally for me but he was there emotionally for his girlfriend and his daughters so my anger grew and grew to the point where I had a nervous breakdown and nearly took my own life.

 

 

Luckily after years of prayer and a lot of swallowing my pride I have a good relationship with my father and his girlfriend and her family. My dad is still clueless as to what he did but I look at it as all the emotional adversity has made me become more dependent on God.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.."

 

Jahnava Nitai Das -“Do not allow the past to hurt you. First forgive yourself for whatever mistakes you may have done, and then move on in sadhana. As long as we hold on to undeserved guilt we will always feel depressed in our service’.

Your servant, Jahnava Nitai Das. Part of Personal letter to Gauragopala dasa ACBSP (Sarva gattah)

[bija]

wise jahnava... all that other stuff (that we all carry) is not worth it... whereas life is! the unconscious is unlimited and not what soul is (original).

 

somedays sarva there is real bliss, even in the gaze of a sage (salvia) flower, that is life.

 

it would be intersting to calculate world stats, how many are perfect in this world...I am guessing it would be 0%

jahnava is right and so is theist. and humility is the door way to heaven...

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.."

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[jeffster]

Someone once said, "Let go, and let God." I don't know who said it but it is a good one.

jeffster/AMd

[bija]

<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com.au/googleplayer.swf?docid=377595686481237910&hl=en&fs=true" style="width: 250px; height: 220px;" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash">

 

life...

[DrBunny143]

Forgiveness of self and others is necessary to release "energy packets" that are not in harmony with the Divine Flow; thus they must be released so we can grow. We choose to become involved with others to evolve ourselves Spiritually. As we choose to "suffer" (go through) life experiences, we step into our true Dharma.

 

To forgive ourselves,we can say the following statements with the emotional energy of desire to release:

"I forgive myself."

"I forgive ____________."

"I ask ___________to forgive me."

 

One may fill in the blanks, how one wishes. "I forgive my body;I forgive my parents;I forgive my lover, etc." By saying or writing these sentences daily, we build the habit pattern of releasing that which is not part of our Divine - True Self. Then simply, ask for our "Highest Needs to be Met" and be "Open to Outcome."

[melvin]

Can you forgive & forget one who owes you money say, $10,000? If the answer is yes, then you are a philanthropist. If the answer is no, then you are miser.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Can you forgive & forget one who owes you money say, $10,000? If the answer is yes, then you are a philanthropist. If the answer is no, then you are miser.

That’s why never lend ANYONE money - Also some people are genuinely broke, you cannot get blood out of a stone.

The cheaters and the cheated

Also in 1977 I worked for this rogue at Spiritual Sky Melbourne and collected over $250,000 in 10 months that I was told was for the building of Mayapur.

Instead this long rogue bought houses and went for weekend skiing trips to New Zealand and even Switzerland.

He just used me, payed me $50 a week and never questioned anything because I thought it was all for Prabhupada - Frankly, I'm still pissed off and haven't forgiven his lies and cheating. YES, you are right, it is hard to forgive something that snowballed - I don't expected nor deserve to ever be forgiven for what I have done, by me that is. That’s between me and Prabhupada

Who cares what all the other self-righteous materialists so called devotee in the axis of hypocrites think (1 –The present version of the mundane ISKCON camp, 2- Gaudiya math Narayana Camp, 3- Gaudiya math Govinda camp

[mahak]

haribol, folks, hope the winter is tolerable. Apology and forgiveness are linked, and are very important issues to discuss.

 

My point here is the spiritual value of apology. Nothing to do with the offended, even though right of refusal is in the hands of the offended, and forgiveness is not complete unless apology is accepted. But the act of apology, wheteher accepted or not, is a deep spiritual practice. One develops humility by placing oneself in a regretful mode for offenses that occur no matter how hard one tries to avoid them.

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada, when he took on us uncultured students, explained the "ritual" of offering each other humble obiesancies. This act, which must be performed by cultured persons to, according to Bhagavad gita, is the worship and honor due to elder family members, religious folk, spiritual teachers, and other honorable folk. We place our heads on the ground and ask forgiveness for all the damage caused by us simply by taking yet another birth. Apology is an extension of the offering of obiesancies and addresses not only the soothing of the offended, but a unique act of contrition by the offender. The spiritual value to the offender is much greater (IMHO) than any value in repairing a broken relationship.

 

But it is always nice to receive acceptance when one apologizes. We know the story of how lost durvasa was until his offense was mitigated, and even Lord Narayana declared powerlessness to forgive one mans offense to another. But even without acceptance, the apology itself is a great thing to do, even for the smallest things.

 

Hare Krsna, ys mahaksadasa

 

PS I am very sorry to have taken yet another birth, please forgive me.

[theist]

 

My point here is the spiritual value ofapology. Nothing to do with the offended, even though right of refusalis in the hands of the offended, and forgiveness is not complete unlessapology is accepted. But the act of apology, wheteher accepted or not,is a deep spiritual practice. One develops humility by placing oneselfin a regretful mode for offenses that occur no matter how hard onetries to avoid them.

 

 

Powerful point Mahak.

[raghu]

 

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.

 

Theist,

 

You may recall that in the past, you often addressed me with very harsh words when I politely questioned many of your views. Rather than answering my questions, you often chose instead to label me as a "mental speculator,a nuisance... just wants to argue," a "Christ hater," an "impersonalist," and a "Hindu" (which you used and continue to use in a very derisive way). As time went by it became your default way of dealing with me even when I was not writing to you, making it quite obvious that you harbor a deep resentment against me.

 

Question: does your obvious resentment of me cut yourself off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace? Or is this just something you only consider to be theoretically true, and make an exception for people like me who know how to think for themselves and whom you cannot convince to accept your thinking?

[theist]

 

Theist,

 

You may recall that in the past, you often addressed me with very harsh words when I politely questioned many of your views. Rather than answering my questions, you often chose instead to label me as a "mental speculator,a nuisance... just wants to argue," a "Christ hater," an "impersonalist," and a "Hindu" (which you used and continue to use in a very derisive way). As time went by it became your default way of dealing with me even when I was not writing to you, making it quite obvious that you harbor a deep resentment against me.

 

Question: does your obvious resentment of me cut yourself off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace? Or is this just something you only consider to be theoretically true, and make an exception for people like me who know how to think for themselves and whom you cannot convince to accept your thinking?

 

 

I viewed your post this time and I am glad I did even though you are on my ignore list. You mocked Christ and therefore I want nothing to do with you period. No making such a stand does not cut me off from God's grace. Ignoring your offensive talk against Krishna's devotee would have however.

 

 

Now back to ignoring you.

[Svarupa]

 

haribol, folks, hope the winter is tolerable. Apology and forgiveness are linked, and are very important issues to discuss.

 

My point here is the spiritual value of apology. Nothing to do with the offended, even though right of refusal is in the hands of the offended, and forgiveness is not complete unless apology is accepted. But the act of apology, wheteher accepted or not, is a deep spiritual practice. One develops humility by placing oneself in a regretful mode for offenses that occur no matter how hard one tries to avoid them.

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada, when he took on us uncultured students, explained the "ritual" of offering each other humble obiesancies. This act, which must be performed by cultured persons to, according to Bhagavad gita, is the worship and honor due to elder family members, religious folk, spiritual teachers, and other honorable folk. We place our heads on the ground and ask forgiveness for all the damage caused by us simply by taking yet another birth. Apology is an extension of the offering of obiesancies and addresses not only the soothing of the offended, but a unique act of contrition by the offender. The spiritual value to the offender is much greater (IMHO) than any value in repairing a broken relationship.

 

But it is always nice to receive acceptance when one apologizes. We know the story of how lost durvasa was until his offense was mitigated, and even Lord Narayana declared powerlessness to forgive one mans offense to another. But even without acceptance, the apology itself is a great thing to do, even for the smallest things.

 

Hare Krsna, ys mahaksadasa

 

PS I am very sorry to have taken yet another birth, please forgive me.

As long as all parties are Krsna Conscious, then forgiveness and acceptence is the result.

 

Problem is, ISKCON today are very immature and have no idea how to deal with present problems except to ignore them and hope they go and fade away like a bad smell as one idiot sannyasi once said

 

And the Gaudiya math camps are worse, they have no idea how to hate the sin and not the sinner because of their karmi polluted watered down version of Krsna Consciousness.

[Svarupa]

 

Jahnava Nitai Das -“Do not allow the past to hurt you. First forgive yourself for whatever mistakes you may have done, and then move on in sadhana. As long as we hold on to undeserved guilt we will always feel depressed in our service’.

Your servant, Jahnava Nitai Das. Part of Personal letter to Gauragopala dasa ACBSP (Sarva gattah)

[kaisersose]

 

I viewed your post this time and I am glad I did even though you are on my ignore list. You mocked Christ and therefore I want nothing to do with you period. No making such a stand does not cut me off from God's grace. Ignoring your offensive talk against Krishna's devotee would have however.

 

 

Now back to ignoring you.

 

And yet, there should be personal forgiveness, dont you think - for the concept to be truly meaningful?

 

If you will pick and choose candidates who you think are qualified for forgiveness, then I don't see the point. I also do not see how this is in line with Jesus's message of *unconditional* forgiveness.

 

In my opinion, we should not preach if we cannot practice. If I myself cannot follow what I say, then how can I expect others to be following it?

 

Cheers

[melvin]

 

haribol, folks, hope the winter is tolerable. Apology and forgiveness are linked, and are very important issues to discuss.

 

My point here is the spiritual value of apology. Nothing to do with the offended, even though right of refusal is in the hands of the offended, and forgiveness is not complete unless apology is accepted. But the act of apology, wheteher accepted or not, is a deep spiritual practice. One develops humility by placing oneself in a regretful mode for offenses that occur no matter how hard one tries to avoid them.

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada, when he took on us uncultured students, explained the "ritual" of offering each other humble obiesancies. This act, which must be performed by cultured persons to, according to Bhagavad gita, is the worship and honor due to elder family members, religious folk, spiritual teachers, and other honorable folk. We place our heads on the ground and ask forgiveness for all the damage caused by us simply by taking yet another birth. Apology is an extension of the offering of obiesancies and addresses not only the soothing of the offended, but a unique act of contrition by the offender. The spiritual value to the offender is much greater (IMHO) than any value in repairing a broken relationship.

 

But it is always nice to receive acceptance when one apologizes. We know the story of how lost durvasa was until his offense was mitigated, and even Lord Narayana declared powerlessness to forgive one mans offense to another. But even without acceptance, the apology itself is a great thing to do, even for the smallest things.

 

Hare Krsna, ys mahaksadasa

 

PS I am very sorry to have taken yet another birth, please forgive me.

 

Dear Mahak,

Please forgive me if I have offended thee in the past. I was Mr Hyde to you with my offensive (hahaha) postings. You vowed not to post any replies/threads in the forum if the administrator allowed me to continue what I was doing.

[theist]

 

And yet, there should be personal forgiveness, dont you think - for the concept to be truly meaningful?

 

If you will pick and choose candidates who you think are qualified for forgiveness, then I don't see the point. I also do not see how this is in line with Jesus's message of *unconditional* forgiveness.

 

In my opinion, we should not preach if we cannot practice. If I myself cannot follow what I say, then how can I expect others to be following it?

 

Cheers

 

 

The offense was to Lord Jesus not me. I am not empowered to forgive others aparadha against saintly persons. I accept the instruction that I should be angered by it and avoid it.

 

 

no need to address me please. You are also one I don't want to discuss anything further with. Please put me on your ignore list.

[raghu]

 

I viewed your post this time and I am glad I did even though you are on my ignore list. You mocked Christ and therefore I want nothing to do with you period. No making such a stand does not cut me off from God's grace. Ignoring your offensive talk against Krishna's devotee would have however.

 

 

Now back to ignoring you.

 

So in other words, personal forgiveness is ok for you to preach, but not to practice. On the contrary, when you disagree with someone, you fabricate bogus claims to the effect that he insulted your chosen deity figure, and then in this way you rationalize your hatred against him.

 

Can you quote one thing I have stated that supposedly insults Jesus? You and I both know that you cannot.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Harboring deep resentments to others for wrongs great and small they may have done us is a sure way to cut ourselves off from experiencing the fullness of God's grace and continuing in the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

 

 

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive mybrother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"

 

22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

 

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

 

24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.

 

25Sincehe was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

 

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'

 

27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

 

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

 

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

 

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.

 

31Whenthe other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressedand went and told their master everything that had happened.

 

32"Thenthe master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.

 

33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'

 

34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

 

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."