Vaisnava Aparadha: When is it OK to find fault with devotees???

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Spoken like a true ksatriya.

 

I have no desire to follow the examples of the ksatriyas, though. The example of the Gopis has been held up to me as the highest to which I can aspire (to serve).

 

Even though Sri Krishna did them greivous injury by leaving them and living like a King in Dwaraka, the Gopis had no animosity towards Him, nor could they even conceive of having any animosity towards Him. They would not dream of correcting Him (except, perhaps, to playfully tease Him).

 

 

I posted this on Dandavats:

 

While the humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater, such elevated vision is not recommended for the kshatriyas or administrators of day to day affairs of society. Somebody in society must pay close attention to mundane law and order, or the humble sages will be eaten alive by the ever present disciples of Kali.

Look at the story of brahmana’s lost children in Krsna Book for clues (Chapter 89). It is natural to demand protection from the ruling authority, and yes, such a person in position of authority must be held responsible for what happens on their watch. The brahmana in this story was blaming the kings of Dwaraka for his misfortune, and the kings did not offer him some philosophical words of consolation, but actually provided a practical solution to his problems.

Maybe the kings and brahmanas of today need to re-read this story and try to see also the practical lessons it contains.

---

 

It is not Vaishnava aparadha if you criticize a sannyasi for falling down with a woman, or a temple president for failing to protect devotees from exploitation or abuse. There needs to be some social pressure so that people will act properly. Just like with raising children. Discipline and pressure are part of the education process. The is no aparadha to the dirty pot if you call it "dirty". Aparadha is when you find fault with a clean pot out of envy.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

I have no desire to follow the examples of the ksatriyas, though. The example of the Gopis has been held up to me as the highest to which I can aspire (to serve).

 

I think that in this world we must act and think the way we truly are, not the way we want to be.

 

I am definitely no gopi, so I am not even trying to think or act like one. I am an aspiring Vaishnava in a kshatriya body so I try to think and act like one - and even to act properly on that level is a struggle for me sometimes.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

I think that in this world we must act and think the way we truly are, not the way we want to be.

 

I am definitely no gopi, so I am not even trying to think or act like one. I am an aspiring Vaishnava in a kshatriya body so I try to think and act like one - and even to act properly on that level is a struggle for me sometimes.

 

It's not a question of imitation. It's a question of which ideal we reverently hold upon our heads.

[Beggar 0]

 

"Rupanuga", "raganuga". Can you explain the difference?

 

Raganuga means to follow (anuga) as a sadhaka in the footsteps of the ragatmika parishads like Nanda, Yasoda, the principle sakhas, cowherd boys, sakhis, cowherd girls etc. The ragatmikas fully manifiest raga or spontaneous attachment to the Lords lotus feet. But raganuga is a general term because it encompasses all four of the active rasas. The term Rupanuga is specific and means to follow (anuga) Sri Rupa, that is Srila Rupa Goswami in his sadhaka form, and as Sri Rupa Manjari in her internal parishad form. For example those who worship Bala Gopal Krsna in the Madhvacarya sampradaya can follow in the footsteps of Krsna's parents in spontaneous attachment and they would be raganuga bhaktas but never Rupanuga.

 

 

So, are you saying the Lord cannot do as He wishes, or that there are certain things which He would never wish?

 

Yes, he would never wish for rasabhasa. This is why Sri Swarupa Damodara always screened written offerings given to Mahaprabhu, so He would not have his mood disturbed by rasabhasa and apasiddhanta.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

It's not a question of imitation. It's a question of which ideal we reverently hold upon our heads.

 

It is also a question of how we see our role in this world. What service does Krsna want me to perform in my life? This is Arjuna's question in the Gita. My primary concern is with the service, here and now. I may be aspiring to become a cow in Goloka, but right now Krsna has some service for me to do - I know that for a fact. I just have to become very surrendered and He makes me do things for Him. As I learn to surrender all the time, I am becoming purified and one day I will be ready to achieve the position I am aspiring for. And you know what? Sometimes our aspirations change, and instead of aspiring to be a cow in Goloka we end up aspiring to be a cowherd boy. So it is safer to just concentrate on our service here and now, just like Arjuna did at the end of his talk with Krsna. Work now, samadhi later...

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

Yes, he would never wish for rasabhasa. This is why Sri Swarupa Damodara always screened written offerings given to Mahaprabhu, so He would not have his mood disturbed by rasabhasa and apasiddhanta.

 

Perhaps Sriman Mahaprabhu would never wish for rasabhasa. After all, He is the Lord in the guise of His perfect devotee.

 

To the extent that not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Lord, the Lord must have wished SDG to do what he did.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Didn't you remind us not too long ago that, despite their prowess, the Kshatriya defers to the humble Brahmana for guidance? Would the Kshatriya presume to lecture the Brahmana on etiquette?

 

 

It is also a question of how we see our role in this world. What service does Krsna want me to perform in my life? This is Arjuna's question in the Gita. My primary concern is with the service, here and now. I may be aspiring to become a cow in Goloka, but right now Krsna has some service for me to do - I know that for a fact. I just have to become very surrendered and He makes me do things for Him. As I learn to surrender all the time, I am becoming purified and one day I will be ready to achieve the position I am aspiring for. And you know what? Sometimes our aspirations change, and instead of aspiring to be a cow in Goloka we end up aspiring to be a cowherd boy. So it is safer to just concentrate on our service here and now, just like Arjuna did at the end of his talk with Krsna. Work now, samadhi later...

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Didn't you remind us not too long ago that, despite their prowess, the Kshatriya defers to the humble Brahmana for guidance? Would the Kshatriya presume to lecture the Brahmana on etiquette?

 

it is not a lecture. it is sharing my understanding with fellow Vaishnavas. You have your guru and he is the one giving you lectures. the kshatriya example is just one of the possible options - if you are a brahmana then you need to follow the brahminical examples.

 

as to the kshatriyas taking guidance from brahmanas - it is on as needed basis, and kshatriyas make sure that brahmana is actually experienced in the area of the required advice. on top of that, I have no kshatriya responsibilities here

[suchandra 1]

 

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Vaisnava Aparadha

 

BY: ANANDA SVARUPA DASA

 

 

Jan 8, AMSTERDAM, NETHERLANDS (SUN) —

Lets face it, no sincere devotee likes to criticize another devotee. Fault-finding is foreign to a devotee. We address each other as Prabhu and that term leaves absolutely no room for criticism. Quite the contrary. Even the most abject beginner full of material imperfections, if he chants Hare Krsna and accepts the process of Krsna consciousness he or she is to be considered a

Vaisnava

and to criticize such a devotee is

Vaisnava aparadha

.

 

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"Krsna never tolerates offenses committed at the lotus feet of a pure

Vaisnava. A Vaisnava, however, is always ready to forgive such

offenses. Krpambudhi: A Vaisnava is an ocean of mercy.

Vanca-kalpa-taru: Everyone has desires, but a Vaisnava can fulfill all

desires. Kalpa-taru refers to a tree in the spiritual world which is

called a wish-fulfilling tree. In this material world a particular

type of fruit can only be gotten from a particular type of tree, but

in Krsnaloka, as well as in all the other planets in the spiritual

sky, all the trees are spiritual and will yield whatever one desires.

That is described in the Brahma-samhita (cintamani prakara-sadmasu

kalpa-vrksa). A pure Vaisnava is compared to such a wish-fulfilling

tree, for he can bestow a matchless gift upon a sincere

disciple--Krsna consciousness.~ Krsna Consciousness, The Matchless

Gift, Ch 2 - Getting Out the Material Mire

[Beggar 0]

 

Perhaps Sriman Mahaprabhu would never wish for rasabhasa. After all, He is the Lord in the guise of His perfect devotee.

 

To the extent that not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Lord, the Lord must have wished SDG to do what he did.

Only from the highest level would your "not a blade of grass" comment make any sense. For a saranagata bhakta, a fully surrendered devotee, Sri Krsna hears their prayers or desires for bhakti, devotional service and fulfills them. Even if one is an initiated devotee but is not fully surrendered then the Lord remains hidden in our hearts as paramatma or Supersoul. upadraṣṭānumantā ca (B.G.13.23). The Supersoul is both the upadraṣṭā — overseer and anumantā — permitter. Here is a pertinent part of the Purport by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,

 

 

And because the Paramātmā is the Supreme Lord, He is present within to sanction the individual soul's desiring material enjoyment. Without the sanction of the Supreme Soul, the individual soul cannot do anything. The individual is bhukta, or the sustained, and the Lord is bhoktā, or the maintainer. There are innumerable living entities, and He is staying in them as a friend.

 

Consequently it is erroneous to write the following without deferring to conception of Krsna in the Bhagavad Gita. The most general situation needs to be confirmed then only can we understand the higher level,

 

 

To the extent that not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Lord, the Lord must have wished SDG to do what he did.

 

SDG did not fall by the Will of the Lord like Jaya and Vijaya. As long as one recognizes the reality of the situation perhaps it would be possible on another level to wonder if this is part of Srila Prabhupada's lila to demonstrate what happens when one imitates a great acarya, as a warning to others. So in that sense your thought is not really a bad one, it just needs to be explained in more detail.

[url="http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/c/ca"]

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

As long as one recognizes the reality of the situation perhaps it would be possible on another level to wonder if this is part of Srila Prabhupada's lila to demonstrate what happens when one imitates a great acarya, as a warning to others. So in that sense your thought is not really a bad one, it just needs to be explained in more detail.

 

 

I have a very tenuous grasp on reality--at best.

 

Still, *I* certainly take SDG's "fall" as a warning regarding false pride!!

[dhaa 0]

Vaishnava Aparadha. Everyone is a Vaishnava. Even all in Hell. Nobody is perfect. Not even Prabhupada he did it too.

 

The God informs in shastra not to criticize anyone.

 

Than criticizing there are more beneficial acts to perform.

[suchandra 1]

 

You are all simply "transferring" your own "unresolved personal/emotional existential angst" and superimposing it on others!

No other man can rule on who can/shall have sex.

Are any of these fallen gurus one of your own fallen gurus?

If so what significance is it to your life?

I could have taken initiation from Bhavanada, Ayutananda, Ramesvara, Kirtananda, Hamsaduta, and almost did from Bhaktatirtha & Bhaktisvarupa Damodara, Narayan Maharaj, or Sridhar Swami but I didn't --I'm still a devotee in Iskcon doing service without misgivings. I have lost so much wealth, possessions and loved ones along the way--but we soldier on.

You're all whining girlly-men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't respond to this post, just burn with desire to whip out your false ego.

Get yourself to an ashram and cut some vegetables and be satisfied with that common service.

You are in seperation and you're doing it to keep your stash, I wasn't born yesterday.

Newcomers to ashram life must be prepared to be bereft of all comforts until they are comfortable with their quota of austerity.

So many of us entered the ashram life days or weeks after having still engaged in all the maya we could before we took up residence.

Renunciation extends to controling the mind, body and tongue --I guess that you're lacking in that, while away from ashram life.

If a highly positioned 'person' falls from the standard --there is nothing remarkable about it. You are all most fallen [my speculation] and therefore you are all keeping your own selves at a distance from ashram life and it's duties.

WE WILL ALL GROW OLD SOON ENOUGH AND YOU ALL MUST PREPARE TO JOIN TOGETHER AT OUR OWN VANAPRASTHA ASHRAM(S).

God speed all ye blessed persons,

If, God forbid, any of you upstarts fall ill or lame do you realize how quite you would then become?

Krsna & Balarama are already at your sides, look forward and seek out Seva feeling confidant that "you are provided for". So quit your Histronics and make history instead.

When you lay down to rest: feel, really feel the comfort. That comfort is the embrace of Krsna’s shakti in it’s totality—the mercy is always available to us devotees. We have a carrot now, beware the stick.

your barking dog,

Bhaktajan

Dear Bhakta Jan prabhu, thanks for taking 2 hours of time to address the forum members with an extensive recherche of highlighting the condition of our psyche.

"You are all most fallen......"

After having distributed Srila Prabhupada's books for 15 years - 15 freezing winters - Harikes, Prithu and Suhotra prabhus told me the exact same. So you're reconfirming what Harikes, Prithu and Suhotra prabhus were already instructing and therefore you must be fully right and 100% correct.

Since I follow all the regs promised at my initiation I don't feel uncomfortable to carefully read and reflect upon your telediagnosis and hope you don't mind seeing your way to address devotees who were ordered by their own GBC to live outside of ISKCON as ISKCON mentality in general.

Although all those GBC men who instructed that a brahmacari after distributing Prabhupada's books for 15 years is "burned out" and should live outside to better clear the way for new disciples are no more in office, our present GBC did not reconsider about their decision-making.

In other words by keeping silent he 100% fully reconfirmed what was already ordered.

Tumbling around all day and "projecting your own unresolved inner conflicts upon others", is a good trial to unsettle your "opponents", but when googling on "projecting unresolved" feelings, conflicts, parential relationships, family problems, etc etc, I'm getting some 97,000 results. Common phrasemongering in the field of modern psychology. ISKCON adopts quite lots of "clever" stuff from modern psychology lately. How come you're in need of such?

"You're all whining girlly-men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<wbr>!!!"

You surely would also call Prabhupada like that when translating CC??????????????????????

 

CC Madhya 2.20: Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī continued lamenting about the consequences of loving Kṛṣṇa: "My dear friend, I do not understand the regulative principles given by the Creator. I loved Kṛṣṇa for happiness, but the result was just the opposite. I am now in an ocean of distress. It must be that now I am going to die, for My vital force no longer remains. This is My state of mind."

[bhaktajan 0]

My Dear suchandra,

 

Please keep in mind that I am your servant. Any one how has done as you state, "distributed Srila Prabhupada's books for 15 years" is someone I salute, offer my dandavats, seek forgiveness for any offenses and is someone who I meditate on during times of distress and fear and moments ofexistential shortcomings.

 

All my own discussions are meant to be academic --but If someone as your good self should reveal such personal experiences then I am beholding to you personally. To hear of such an uncomparable history of Supreme seva & tapasya is how real tapasya is defined in scripture.

 

All our postings are read by by-standers and thus our posts are public knowledge --so that the world can keep abreast of our mutual concerns.

 

Sometimes it takes a long time until certain satric stories hit home, maybe it's time to read-up on Mother Kunti's laments.

 

I, myself, am most fallen [i remember when it was common knowledge that the HAre Krishna Devotees were viewed as 'the most proud, conceited, and self-rightous spiritualists ever' by the new age movement adherents--we are! We all are! Such self-rightousness is now being seen only in exchanges of familial squabbles]

 

I recently heard this quote:

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."

 

All the GBC men who've caused grief for the common devotee will pass in time and we must find new venues to apply our skills, insights and wellwishes . . .

 

yours truely

Bhaktajan

 

PS: my 'passionate' tone is due to my own wellwishes for Iskcon being twarted by so many factors--not just devotees but the whole of society's mis-concerns. We must use time to design work schemes that benefit others even as the karmis friends, relatives, employers etc are manufacturing distress everywhere. What do we do next????????

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

I missed this reply somehow.

 

You assumed I was talking about you as the kshatriya and me as the Brahmana. Actually, I was speaking hypothetically.

 

However, isn't there the story of the great king (can't remember his name) who gave some cows to a brahmana? One cow wandered off and back into the herd of the king. The king accidentally gave the same cow (along with others) to another brahmana. When the first brahmana took offense, wasn't the king quite humble, perplexed and concilliatory in his response? Doesn't this story reveal the attitude of the pure kshatriya to the Brahmanas?

 

 

it is not a lecture. it is sharing my understanding with fellow Vaishnavas. You have your guru and he is the one giving you lectures. the kshatriya example is just one of the possible options - if you are a brahmana then you need to follow the brahminical examples.

 

as to the kshatriyas taking guidance from brahmanas - it is on as needed basis, and kshatriyas make sure that brahmana is actually experienced in the area of the required advice. on top of that, I have no kshatriya responsibilities here

[enverajanovic 0]

Here is some "aparadha" that I want to share with you all:

 

 

 

 

Ode To A Fake Guru, Prithu Das

BY: ENVER AJANOVICH

 

Jan 25, USA (SUN) — An open letter to Prithu das.

 

Just recently I had tried to communicate my grief and trauma to some people I know. They all told me that I am too negative about the things that I have experienced as a subject in Prithu's spiritual regime. I presume you all know who I am talking about but if you don't, he is a German man initiated by Srila Prabhupada, still active and "preaching" in ISKCON despite being divorced, having attempted the misappropriation of ISCKON property, and not being able to follow the principles. Just to name a few.

 

I want to make my expression more understandable to people who find the philosophy expounded in the movie named "The Secret", and other new age literature, more appropriate than what Srila Prabhupada had to say on this matter. I often find it hard to finish the sentence (due to being interrupted) when I am addressing these points in conversations. So, here I am trying hard to give it all a more positive spin (everything is either positive or negative these days… whatever happened to realistic, honest, etc.?) I agree, I was too negative.

 

Dear former Guru Maharaja,

 

You are truly an inspiration. You never gave up on the guru business. This is the only thing you know and you stick to it until the day you die. Your determination to help others spiritually advance is most admirable, never mind the fact that you were not able to follow the principles since 1980, as you have admitted yourself. Never mind the fact that you abandoned responsibilities to your family long ago, in favour of self-abuse. Many that you have given shelter to did the same to honor you. I suppose there is still some space for making the divorce rate in ISKCON increase by setting a good example, and that is where your expertise comes in handy.

 

Never mind that Krishna prevented you from cashing in your chips when selling the property in Vrindavan… property that you had your former disciples collect for, instead of preaching or distributing Srila Prabhupada's books. Being gored by a cow in Vrindavan was no deterrent. There is still some money to be made from ISKCON and you are determined to prove it to us all. Short motivational speech (sometimes referred to as SB class), right after your early morning self-abuse, and money is freely given by all illuminated and inspired souls that never found out who you really are. After all, you can't get too intimate with all of us. As the famous saying goes: "A sucker is born every minute... and two (fake gurus in ISKCON) to take 'em."

 

I really admire your fatherly affection that you expressed to all the young boys that you liked to receive the massages from. I respect your undying loyalty to your pedophile disciple, Nitai Chandra das, that you protected since 1992 and who went on to molest more than 50 children as a homage to you. He still lives to honor the tradition. I suppose the "Zero tolerance petition" that you started is meant to absolve you of reactions that are due.

 

I am most grateful for all the intimate "katha" about each and every one of your godbrothers that you so deeply despise. It was my staple philosophical diet for years. Why make others starved by retiring or changing your profession? It surely makes for a more united, stronger society full of brotherly love. Why leave others to run ISKCON into the ground if you can help accelerate it. Vyasasan is the pedestal you were born for. Some people opt for koolaid laced with cyanide as a means to salvation, but you have offered a much better alternative. We offered you our food while you masturbated behind closed doors for years, and thus by eating the leftovers we were imbibing all the wonderful transcendental qualities you kept hidden from us. Qualities essential to true spiritual progress. All glories to your purity.

 

You have never read or put emphasis on reading Srila Prabhupada's books or chanting japa regularly. For your disciples that had struggled with rounds, you mercifully extended leniency in that regard and allowed them to chant when they felt like doing it, as long as they were good collectors. As a substitute, you would illuminate us with your pep talks while keeping us busy selling paintings in Taiwan, sleeping in sleazy love motels, eating bhoga in Buddhist restaurants to make sure there was enough money for a big house for you and to support your renounced lifestyle. One can only wish for a better bramachari training. Who needs a preaching when there is so much money lying around waiting for a young bramachari to earn for his Guruji.

 

You claim that your godborther, Hari Sauri prabhu, says that you are the best in preaching and I concur. Due to elevation because of close association of Srila Prabhupada, he must have much clearer vision than me. No doubt when it comes to preaching vilely against your godbrothers and making new cult followers that you can extract money from, for the decadent lifestyle you aspire for, you truly have no match. Preaching the glories of apple computers, juicers, trampolines, enema kits, old age prevention and life extension, you are the best so why not aspire for the best? Who wouldn't agree.

 

You always graciously take time to encourage and bless us, all of your former disciples. Even after experiencing so much inconvenience for taking on our bad karma. Midlife crises is surely what all the bonafide gurus went thru as a consequence of their compassion to their disciples. I just can't find a sloka to confirm that right now. You assure us that there is no loss in dedicating time, money and energy to someone who just had a little life long problem like addiction to self-abuse, but is back on track now, ready for more support. Shastras must abound with examples of stalwart bonafide gurus like you. I just haven't found any yet.

 

You mercifully accept all the laxmi, even nowadays, assuring your dedicated followers that it will be used in Krishna's service. Be it for the purchase of a brand new Apple computer, trip to Thailand for colonic irrigation vacation, expensive dental implants or a pack of goji berries that have the indispensable, alkalizing properties much needed for developing pure love of God. Never mind that most of your former disciples left the movement, divorced their wives and gave up on practice of Krsna consciousness. After all, there are new people that compulsorily must accept guidance of experts like you, as per GBC directive. Why not take advantage of that market niche? After all, many of your godbrothers, erotic novel writters, thieves, etc., got reinstated, so why not you? I was glad to be privy to you reveling that ambition of yours recently. Upon examining your history fully, everyone should come to the conclusion that you are the man for the job of a guru. I most admire your strategic thinking in that regard.

 

Just as you taught me, I am staying away from all the corrupt characters in ISKCON and spending most of my time waiting for you to be reinstated in full glory so that I can render service to you: our only worthwhile living saint. I assure you I am well trained and all the time spent listening your critical dissection of your godbrother's characters has not been in vain. I have given you a decade of my life and don't mind you taking the time off to examine your options before you are ready to take over the world again. I am having some doubts, but I will disregard them in favour of positive thinking, as you have always preached.

 

I still reminisce about the day when I flew all the way across the world to have your darshan and got to watch so many amusing video clips that you took days to collect from the Internet. I especially liked your collection of paraphernalia about the "Lord of the Rings" that you so proudly showed us. Your spirit of sharing truly touched the hearts of all of the people present. Now I fully understand the import of Bible verse that said we must be like children to enter the kingdom of God (Matthew 18:2-4). I was too young to fully understand your true nature when I first meet you. Now I know.

 

The tests that you put me trough to purify me and test my faith, I will never forget. My favorite one was when you told me to start looking for another guru because according to you, I have not given you enough money lately. You cited the example of Bhakti Caru Maharaja, who had an epiphany (probably while sitting in the Jacuzzi) and decided to tax his disciples regularly lest they loose the privilege of being his disciples. You embraced the idea and decided to implement it on your disciples. My wife and I were a little shocked and traumatized by your sudden revelation, and scraped together whatever laxmi we had and gave it to you then. Only later did I understand that it was a divine test, when you wrote to acknowledge the receipt of 2,000 euro just a month prior to that. I understood that no matter what my material situation, I shall always keep up to date with donations to you, otherwise I will not make it back to Godhead. Albeit traumatic, I'll bet it was for my and my family's ultimate benefit.

 

I could go on forever because your qualities are truly limitless, but I need to go to and make some money now to be able to afford my salvation.

 

While waiting for your second coming,

I beg to remain your eternal servant.

 

[suchandra 1]

 

Here is some "aparadha" that I want to share with you all:

 

 

 

No doubt when it comes to preaching vilely against your godbrothers and making new cult followers that you can extract money from, for the decadent lifestyle you aspire for, you truly have no match.

 

When reading your well written article, yes, being an outside witness of the whole tragedy what had happened in Vienna and Prithus's disciples so terribly treated by their own guru, this trauma will take some time to be healed. In fact such damaging event possibly can't be put away so easily like the Pandavas' 12-years of exile. After all the Pandavas always felt Krishna's presence and this made their exile more or less like something pleasant. Actually, after the exile they had so much strenght to even fight the Kuruksetra war. Being betrayed by Krishna's representative is something different - others cannot realy comprehend. However, it can be called, human tragedy or error is human and Prabhupada seemed to have a slight intuition his movement could be turned into a "man-made religion". He said in a letter to a disciple:

[...]So far our movement is concerned, actually it is not a so-called religion movement. People throughout the whole world are more or less disgusted with the man-made religious systems. Therefore the government of different states is gradually banning the preaching of religion. People in general also think that this is also another type of so-called religion.

 

So, gradually, they will take steps for banning our propaganda also, unless we present our system very scientifically based on philosophy. Of course, by Krishna's grace, the higher learned section is appreciating our books. That is the only hope for pushing on.[...]

27 January, 1975 Tokyo

 

Seems Prabhupada wanted to say if such things happen like - it's ok prabhu - false gurus repeatedly cheating their followers, his movement and Vaishnavism in general would disappear from the surface of Earth?

They figure that they cannot be caught by present karmi law and therefore go on with the same human-made gurus, but the opposite might be true, the global governments will gradually ban so-called religion with strong and stronger force - the whole world getting more or less disgusted with man-made religious systems.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

 

A Lila Without the Amrita

BY: NAVA JAUVANA DASA (ACBSP)

 

Jan 25, USA (SUN) —

I hesitate to share this because it is neither transcendental nor tragic. It's a part of my personal history and the tiniest of footnotes in the story that was ISKCON in the 70's. I always thought that if I had been gifted to be a novelist, I could have written a classic book based on my experiences in the "good old days." But this is not where my talent lies. So the reader will need to lower his expectations and forgive my clumsy prose.

 

This little story is related to my personal encounters with leaders back in the glory days of ISKCON. I met and knew almost all of them, some more, some less. But enough to know, by 1984, that I could no longer keep my personal integrity and remain within ISKCON. That was already 24 years ago, a double yuga of years have passed since.

 

Some of the new leaders like to say that ISKCON has changed, and I agree. But change is not always progress. My impression is that in ISKCON's case, change is regressive, from a movement flawed by ambitious and sick leaders but which had the pure force of Srila Prabhupada's desire, to a sophisticated institution that has become banal and corrupt. The proof of the pudding, at least in the West, is that the preachers, pujaris and cooks are all imported.

 

But this is a story about the past. It begins when I first moved into a temple in 1970. It was early winter, in Chicago. That is where I met my first "leader," Bhagavan das. Even in those days, he rarely used the "das" in the name given to him by Srila Prabhupada. He was always arrogant, but he was also very serious about his role as a leader. He personally drove with me from Chicago to his own temple in Detroit, answering my questions as a new man. At that time the devotees had rented a freezing storefront in Chicago, so Bhagavan took me to Detroit where there was a "real" temple, a heated house filled with incense wafting thru it, transcendental paintings on the walls and Lord Jagannath deities on the altar. It was full of enthusiastic young men and women who were eager to get up at 4 am to chant and engage in austerities. Bhagavan ran it like a boot camp. We had four or five classes per day, with arotiks, prasadam and street sankirtan squeezed in between. We did everything together -- like clockwork -- from rising to taking rest. Bhagavan participated in most of the activities, except going out on the street. The atmosphere was military-like but transcendental. This was 10 years before the gold plated bathroom fixtures and closets full of cashmere sweaters. Bhagavan was a controller, but a modest one.

 

It was in Detroit that I shaved my head and decided to give this new philosophy and the path offered by Srila Prabhupada a real try. But the discipline and mood of Bhagavan's was a bit rough on me, so as soon as a chance for a more liberal adventure came by, I took it.

 

That came in just a few weeks time when Kirtanananda turned up on a brief stopover on his way back from India. He was like a special forces colonel (Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now?) compared to Bhagavan's role as an upcoming lieutenant on the front lines. Kirtanananda had just returned from India, and his reputation as ISKCON's first sannyasi (at that time there were fewer than 10 sannyasis in the whole movement) preceded him. I asked him if I could go with him to New Vrindavan. He replied that only a handful of brahmacaris were spending the winter there and they had to chisel ice out of their shoes when they got up in the morning. But, I could accompany him to Pittsburgh, where he had a city temple he told me. I signed up, and because he outranked Bhagavan, I was on my way to Pittsburgh.

 

I was a little awe-struck by Kirtanananda when we first met. He played the role of the charismatic ascetic so well. He spoke with power and conviction. He had a grasp of the philosophy that I was just starting to know. He seemed genuinely austere and determined, generating that "first disciple" aura. But as soon as we got to Pittsburgh, I knew I was in trouble. The temple was in a giant former Polish dance hall. It was filled with toxic fumes from vats of chemical dyes used for dipping incense sticks. It was the home of Spiritual Sky. I guess it was funding Kirtanananda's work because he seemed to love the smell. After the trip from Detroit to Pittsburgh, I had very few personal dealing with K. He was busy, and it was up to me to find some engagement in Pittsburgh. He never did anything overtly evil or suspect, but I never felt completely comfortable around him. He always seemed ambitious, on the make. For a long time, I thought that was his desire to serve. Only much later I understood he had his own internal demons he was fighting. And his ambition had a ruthless, even sadistic quality to it.

 

In Pittsburgh, I got involved in acting in some plays that we performed for guests on Sundays. And trying to keep my sanity at nites from what appeared to be a number of ghosts who frequented the temple. Perhaps some long deceased jilted Polish lovers.

 

Soon I was again feeling restless. My friend, whom I had been living with before he joined ISKCON, Marz Attar (who later became Atreya Rishi), was now living in the New York temple. They had recently moved from Second Avenue to Henry Street in Brooklyn. So New York was my next stop. Bhavananda was TP, or TA, Temple Autocrat. Bhavananda was always surrounded by beautiful young brahmacarinis. We called them the "gopi club." It had nothing to do with philosophy: the girls just served Bhavananda's wishes. Everyone thought he was so renounced to engage these pretty young girls without becoming attracted to them. That was 15 years before he was outed as a flaming gay queen. His choice of decor should have tipped us off, but we were really innocent kids at the time.

 

Bhavananda's istagostis and classes were exercises in power politics. It was fear, not love that ruled. No one had the courage to raise an objection without inciting his sarcasm or wrath. In class, if you asked a question starting with "I think," you were told to go into the closet. It was the beginning of cult consciousness. After a few months in New York, I told my friend Marz that the movement would fail because the leaders I had seen were all egomaniacs. Marz didn't disagree with me, but he excitedly told me that we could change ISKCON. Within six months, his desire to lead was recognized by some of the others and he was added to the GBC, only to be removed by Srila Prabhupada (who temporarily disbanded the GBC for acting without his approval). Later, Prabhupada requested him to join the newly reactivated GBC.

 

Marz, who became Atreya Rishi that summer, was a different type of leader. He was more intellectual and professional than the rest. He was a graduate of Harvard Business School and a CPA working for a multinational company. He was also coming from a different cultural background, from Iran. Because we had been friends prior to joining, I had a different relationship with him than with the other leaders. It was closer and I trusted him more. He took a lot of crap from the others; he was seen as a misfit and an oddball. He made alliances with some of them, but in the end, after 15 years of being the class clown he left ISKCON, along with his own doubts. To this day, I think he remains traumatized by his experiences with his colleagues on the GBC.

 

My next encounter was with Rupanuga, a GBC at that time. We shared a plane ride. I had left the movement just before Srila Prabhupada returned to the US in the summer of 1971. I had Prabhupada's darshan for the first time in Detroit, then I sat directly behind Prabhupada on a plane going to Boston. Rupanuga sat next to me. I had wanted to meet Prabhupada personally, but I could not find the right words to introduce myself on the flight, so I kept quiet, listening to Rupanuga. He was trying to convince me to rejoin ISKCON. His argument was that ISKCON was destined to become a big organization, and I could get in on the ground floor. It was basically a sales pitch to join a corporate start up and work my way up the ladder. As a musician and semi-hippie, I thought his rationale was way off-base. I was thinking, I'm here because of that pure devotee who is sitting in front of me, not because I want to join a company. But his words show that even way back then, in 1971, the leaders were already thinking about power and success, not about love or even about Prabhupada.

 

I failed to meet Prabhupada personally that summer, but I did send him a tape of a couple of songs about Krishna I recorded, and he wrote me back a short but inspiring letter, to use my artistic abilities to please him and Krishna. I immediately decided to join a group of devotees who were forming in New Vrindavan, in what was to become known as "The Road Show." Again, that meant to be under the influence of Kirtanananda, but I didn't mind, since I would be with a group of talented devotees, doing what I enjoyed most: music and theatre.

 

Rehearsals with the musicians at New Vrindavan went pretty smoothly for a few weeks, until an extremely agitated and pushy brahmacari came to join the band. His name was Harikesa, who later became a Swami and one of the infamous Zonal Acaryas. His self-described style of music was jazz-rock, but in my opinion he was just a terrible musician. Worse, he was a bully, and forced his style on the rest of us. I lasted about 2 months with the "Road Show." Soon after a letter arrived from India giving me my spiritual name in Hari Nama initiation by Srila Prabhupada. I left Sarasota, Florida where we were rehearsing.

 

That spring (1972) I went to L.A. It was one of the best organized and largest temples in ISKCON at the time. It had a recording studio and produced a weekly radio show. That was where I met Jayatirtha who was the TP at the time. Jayatirtha was always a gentleman with me. This was a welcome contrast for me. He had a more inclusive style and generally seemed a lot less of a sociopath than the others I had seen. I enjoyed the time I spent in L.A., and the great bonus for me was that Prabhupada spent 4 months there, giving morning Bhagavatam classes that spring and summer. He also gave private darshans in his room in the late mornings, and regularly I was allowed to attend those, and occasionally readings of Krishna Book in his small garden just outside the temple. Looking back, I was foolish to leave L.A. when I did. But I was feeling agitated by all the young brahmacarinis at the time. I went to the Chicago temple and worked with a brilliant artist named Jaya Rama on a newspaper project I named "Easy Journey to Other Planets," after Prabhupada's book of the same title.

 

In the spring of 1973 I left Chicago to return to New York. By then Atreya was making plans to go to Tehran to open the first branch of ISKCON in the Muslim world, and he had asked Prabhupada if he could bring me along. After 6 months of preparations and delays, I left for Iran in September. Tehran was really off the beaten path of ISKCON. There were only 4 of us there at first: Atreya, myself and our 2 wives. We were joined by a young sannyasi, Paribrajakacarya, in 1974. I spent probably the 4 best years of my ISKCON life in Tehran, doing a bit of preaching, selling a few sets of Prabhupada's Bhagavatams to the Iranian Parliament's Library, doing street kirtan in the park on Fridays (the Muslim holy day of the week), and best of all, spending 11 days with Srila Prabhupada during his 2 visits to Tehran.

 

I had to leave Iran twice. Once I left after Prabhupada's final visit in 1976, to get some career training in the US. I needed to work in Tehran, to maintain my visa, so I left for 18 months. I returned and got a great job as the director of a health club for the elite of Tehran, only to be forced to leave during the revolution against the Shah of Iran in early 1979. I went to London (after spending 24 hours at the Tehran airport trying to get a booking -- all flights overbooked, everything on strike, high tension in the air and a possible civil war at any moment). In London I met a Bengali doctor who invited me to go to Calcutta with him. I took him to Mayapur and introduced him to Bhavananda (who was now the King -- & Queen -- of ISKCON's World Headquarters) and Jayapataka. This was in the early days of Zonal Acaryaism. The jury was still out as we, the godbrothers were naive and still hopeful that ISKCON would continue with the faith Prabhupada had given us. We were, in retrospect, partially responsible for the inevitable outcome by our ignorance. We were complicit. I certainly was. I needed an engagement. I couldn't return to Iran. So I asked Rameswar if I could go back to L.A. to become his personal secretary.

 

He didn't know me well. I had known him as a super sincere, dedicated brahmacari. Now he was a sannyasi and guru. It was a big mistake for me to work for him. When I got to L.A., I was so emotionally disturbed by what I experienced in his office, I could not eat any solid food for 3 weeks. I lived on buttermilk. Rameswar was a meticulous fault-finder. He criticized anyone and everyone. He spent thousands of dollars each month on international phone calls. He had his own private Mercedes which he would use to go to see films. The Godfather was his favorite. He would put on an expensive hair piece and karmi clothes and slip into his Benz at nite. I assumed that watching films was all he did. That's what the resident President at the time, Dhira Krishna, another sannyasi, told me.

 

After 4 months of being his secretary, I somehow convinced Sruti Kirti to come from Hawaii and take over for me. But during that period, I met all the Zonals who came over for a big meeting. Jayatirtha, one of my few friends amongst the leaders, had started taking drugs. He was going into "trance" while sitting on the vyasasan. One of the 2 gurus who was still a householder at that time, the other zonals brought him to the meeting in L.A., and confronted him. They told him to take sannyas, or they would out him as an LSD user and remove him as "acarya." The poor guy was attached. He put on saffron. That was the end of his marriage and the end of any chance he had to rectify himself. It was not the end of his taking drugs. He later left ISKCON to start his own apa cult, only to be brutally murdered by one of his own disgruntled disciples.

 

It was at that meeting I met the rest of the Zonals. Of course I knew Satsvarup from BTG days. He was quiet but restless and dictatorial. Hridayananda was the most blatantly arrogant, like a gifted child who was completely spoiled. He was also a glutton, stuffing himself with chocolate cake whenever he could. (The Zonals always had special cooks and the very best prasadam.) Tamal was there as well. He invited me to go with him on a one week visit to Fiji. I accepted his invitation. We ate very well during that visit. Besides the prasadam, all I remember is him arguing with the local devotees about the exact dimensions that was needed for his vyasasan in the temple in Fiji. Everyone of the Zonals was playing a role. None of them showed any transcendental symptoms. Rather they acted like Mafia bosses who sometimes cooperated and sometimes fought with each other.

 

The next year, I left L.A. to rejoin Atreya in San Francisco. By then, the revolution in Iran had forced him to leave as well. He started a small community in S.F., called the Bhaktivedanta Fellowship. The idea was to create an alternative within ISKCON based not on megalomania but on brahminical standards. We had a brahminical council that met weekly, and while our exchanges were more collegial than in the typical temple, none of us really had any idea of how to interact as brahmins. In addition, all of us were already tired from a decade of mismanagement. I noted that Atreya, who was the leader, wanted to do the right thing, but wasn't fully committed himself. And neither were any of us. The Fellowship was doomed.

 

During that time I met Hansadutta. He was across the Bay in Berkeley. I walked into his room one evening while he was going on about the glories of Hitler. I just sat there listening for about an hour. After that one session, I was afraid of visiting the Berkeley temple again until after he left. My instincts were correct. He was soon busted for shooting up an auto showroom in Berkeley with automatic weapons.

 

It's been a long time -- 30 plus years -- and memories fade. But what I do know is that I don't think I will see such madness, and such disparity between potential and reality again in this life. That was ISKCON then. What it is now does not attract me. As Rocana has written, not a single leader has invited me, over the past 24 years, for any service or association. On my own, I have spent a bit of time with 1 or 2 leaders of the new ISKCON. They were polite to me. I am addressed as a "senior devotee," which in my opinion only marginalizes me. ISKCON appears to be more polished and saner now than it was 30 years ago. But for me, it's also lost its own heart and soul. That is the heart and soul of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Check out my blog:

Jauvana BlogSpot

Free song downloads:

Jauvana.com

 

 

[Vedesu 0]

 

That is where I met my first "leader," Bhagavan das. Even in those days, he rarely used the "das" in the name given to him by Srila Prabhupada. He was always arrogant, but he was also very serious about his role as a leader. He personally drove with me from Chicago to his own temple in Detroit, answering my questions as a new man. At that time the devotees had rented a freezing storefront in Chicago, so Bhagavan took me to Detroit where there was a "real" temple, a heated house filled with incense wafting thru it, transcendental paintings on the walls and Lord Jagannath deities on the altar. It was full of enthusiastic young men and women who were eager to get up at 4 am to chant and engage in austerities. Bhagavan ran it like a boot camp. We had four or five classes per day, with arotiks, prasadam and street sankirtan squeezed in between. We did everything together -- like clockwork -- from rising to taking rest. Bhagavan participated in most of the activities, except going out on the street. The atmosphere was military-like but transcendental.

 

It's kind of sad that this is Nava Jauvana's memory of the early days. The description above was the program Srila Prabhupada authorized. (Except that when I joined, we only had 2 classes a day, not 4 or 5.) Sure, it was austere, and it wasn't for everybody, but it was blissful and extremely purifying. I wouldn't trade those early years for a Harvard education or a sack of gold worth millions. Many of the devotees he mentions were actually quite dedicated and sincere, at least up until the zonal acarya era began. (Which just goes to show the importance of the physically manifest presence of the pure devotee, and the tragic ramifications which follow when the Acarya leaves our vision. See SB 4.28.48 purport.)

[Beggar 0]

 

It's kind of sad that this is Nava Jauvana's memory of the early days. The description above was the program Srila Prabhupada authorized. (Except that when I joined, we only had 2 classes a day, not 4 or 5.) Sure, it was austere, and it wasn't for everybody, but it was blissful and extremely purifying. I wouldn't trade those early years for a Harvard education or a sack of gold worth millions. Many of the devotees he mentions were actually quite dedicated and sincere, at least up until the zonal acarya era began. (Which just goes to show the importance of the physically manifest presence of the pure devotee, and the tragic ramifications which follow when the Acarya leaves our vision. See SB 4.28.48 purport.)

 

I attended the San Francisco Ratha Yatra in 1977. Unfortuately I hadn't been there since 1973. I noticed that during the kirtans and classes the sannyasis (the one's I remember being there, Ramesvara, Satsvarupa and Brahmananda and a few that I can't remember), who were not leading kirtan or giving the lecture, were off by themselves having heated political and management discussions. Yeah, I snooped on them. It went on the whole day and it was really weird. Such a thing could have never happened so out in the open in the early 70s but the ISKCON rank and file were willing to tolerate so much more hypocrisy by the leadership in 1977. And this was three months before Prabhupada left our vision!

[suchandra 1]

 

"That was ISKCON then. What it is now does not attract me."

 

"But this Kṛṣṇa name means “all-attractive.” He attracts everyone. That is the real name, all-attractive. You have seen Kṛṣṇa’s picture. He is attractive to the animals, cows, calves, birds, bees, trees, plants, water, in Vṛndāvana. He’s attractive to the cowherds boy. He’s attractive to the gopīs, He’s attractive to Nanda Mahārāja, He’s attractive to the Pāṇḍavas. He’s still attractive to the whole human society. Therefore, if any particular name can be given to God, that is Kṛṣṇa. And Parāśara Muni, a great saint, father of Vyāsadeva, who compiled all the Vedic literatures, his father, Parāśara Muni, He gave definition of God:

aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva ṣaḍ iti bhagaṁ ganā

By these six opulences, one can ascertain what is God."

 

Lecture

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Los Angeles, May 18, 1972

720518LE.LA

 

 

full lecture:http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/720518LE.LA.htm

[yogesh 0]

Truely most agonizing and traumatic experiances.

 

I cannot imagine going through so much and neither will I try and belittle the experiance But......

 

This is where we have to keep our focus on Sirla Prabhupada and the vision of the Acharyas.

 

Hare Krsna/Krishna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

 

SOME SECRETS IN BHAKTI (excerpt)

 

 

 

(Los Angeles, USA, May 13, 2001)

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja

 

 

Ramananda Raya then came to jnana-sunya bhakti:

 

jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva

jivanti san-mukharitam bhavadiya-vartam

sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir

ye prayaso 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyam

(Madhya 8.67)

 

What is the meaning of this sloka? There are two kinds of jnana, knowledge. The first states that we are brahma: "Sarvam khalv idam brahma", "Aham brahmasmi", "So ham", and so on. What is this? It is nonsense. Krsna can say, "So'ham","I am that brahma", but no jiva can ever say it. We are brahma-jatiya, but not brahma. We are all eternal, infinitesimal parts and parcels of that brahma. We are not full brahma. Those who speak in this false way are called brahma-jnanis.

Those who possess the second kind of jnana are called jnani-bhaktas, and they are personalities like Prahlada Maharaja, Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana, Bhisma Pitamaha, and Sukadeva Gosvami in the first part of his life.

Two terms are used here: jnani and jnani-bhakta. Jnanis are offenders at the lotus feet of Krsna. They don't accept His form, qualities, or potencies, and therefore they are offenders. On the other hand, jnani-bhaktas are accepted as devotees. Jnani-bhaktas are very good. They are always thinking, "The supreme Lord Krsna can create millions upon millions of universes in a moment, and He can also destroy them. He is therefore Lord of Lords. He has so much opulence and so many attributes." Jnani-bhaktas think, "I should serve my Lord so I can achieve something from Him. He is self-satisfied, He is full, He has no thirst, no appetite, and no fatigue; so how can I serve Him?" They only pray, as Prahlada prayed. He could not serve his Lord.

For this reason we don't fully follow these jnani-bhaktas. The pure bhakta forgets that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we want to follow them.

To make a platform, first we should know that Krsna is the supreme Godhead, and we are parts and parcels of that Krsna. We are His eternal servants.

However, if you want Vraja-prema, then you will also have to forget this. You will only need to know that He is Yasoda-nandana and Nanda-nandana, that He is the friend of Sudama and Subala, that He is the beloved of all the gopis, and that He especially serves the gopis. He cannot repay these gopis, He wants to take the dust of the gopis' lotus feet, and He wants to serve them. At that time He becomes Radha-Kanta, Madana Mohana, Syamasundara, and Radha-Ramana.

No one in Vraja-mandala will accept Krsna as Parabrahma, and even Krsna forgets this. He can take the prasadam remnants of Nanda Baba, He can carry the sandals of Nanda Baba on His head and, dancing and calling out, "Tey, tey", He will very happily come to Nanda Baba. As a baby, He cannot turn over on His side. He can create so many universes, but in Vraja He has no power to change sides and therefore Yasoda will come and quickly turn Him over. He cannot eat anything by Himself; rather Mother Yasoda and Nanda Baba will support and nourish Him. Sometimes He will be defeated by Sridama. He can kill Kamsa, Jarasandha, and all other demons, but when He comes to Sridama and fights with him, Sridama can defeat Him in a moment. And, when He is defeated, He will be very happy. He will even be defeated by the gopis. He wanted to wrestle with the gopis, and at once, in a moment, the gopis defeated him and He became so very happy.

In this way there is so much difference between jnani-bhaktas who worship Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and these classes of Vraja-bhaktas. In this sloka, jnane prayasam udapasya, that jnana is offensive which says that Krsna is nirguna, avyakta, anadi, and asesa, that He has no shape, no attributes, no power, and no qualities. Krsna does have shape, beauty, all qualities and all kinds of opulence, but we can never realize this with our mundane eyes.

Srila Jiva Gosvami has written a commentary on this sloka. In that commentary he says that if you want to serve Krsna and you want to please Him the most, like the gopis of Vraja, then try to do pranama from far away to this jnana that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You will have to forget it. If you do not forget it, you cannot love Krsna very much. You will have to forget it.

First we must understand that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just as Srila Swami Maharaja explained in His Gita and all other books. However, he also wanted to tell this fact: "Try to forget it".

[Vedesu 0]

 

Such a thing could have never happened so out in the open in the early 70s but the ISKCON rank and file were willing to tolerate so much more hypocrisy by the leadership in 1977. And this was three months before Prabhupada left our vision!

 

That's pretty sad as well, although I did not have any experience of these goings-ons. Maybe I lived a more sheltered devotional life than some, I don't know. I suppose things were beginning to deteriorate by that time. I was not at all happy with some of the power trips that were taking place on the RDTSK party the last couple of years after Vishnujana Swami had been pushed down, then disappeared for good. I guess my point was that it wasn't all doom and gloom during those peak years. I had some unpleasant experiences as well, (not really worth going into here), but I felt like I acquired at least a little sukriti, a little shraddha from those days. I'm willing to take the positive and accept the negative as being due to my bad karma. Devotees' experiences will vary, of course. I was fortunate to have the association of Vishnujana Maharaja and many other very nice devotees whom I found to be inspirational, from whom I learned a lot and was able to build a foundation of faith that has thus far endured, despite all the crazy stuff that has gone on since '77 or '78.

[theist 1]

A great form of violence is done by those posing as Gods's representatives on earth and posturing themselves as direct links to the Supreme Lord. How many thousands of souls have been left floundering in their wake. We hear it in the above letters and know the authors are not alone.

 

These guys think they got away with so much in the form of worship and money. But it was all stolen from Prabhupada and Krsna. No trite thing and the reactions are yet to come.

 

The basic Vaisnava lesson is lost in such cases where people endeavor to climb up to the top of the religous pile and sit on the big chair overlooking all.

 

The direction of the Vaisnava is like water which always seeks the lowest point and then when accumulating sufficently raises all who take her shelter like boats in harbor.

 

From the bottom up.

 

No extraneous effort is required to be guru except the desire to serve. Krsna will make all other arrangements and we all know He won't bother consulting the GBC.