krsna Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 <!-- end .post-top --><!-- the main section of the post goes here -->By Jatayu dasa (SDG) Learning to appreciate the devotees is a Vaisnava etiquette that helps us in our quest for purification, especially the appreciation of senior devotees. I have always been slow to understand this but as time passed I began to develop a certain admiration for those devotees who came before me. This is due largely to the fact that I have become a senior devotee. I can’t say that I always act like a senior devotee so I guess I am senior by default, simply because of time only. But the arrogance and offensive behavior I showed senior devotees when I was a new devotee frightens me even today causing me to wonder how I ever made it this far in devotional life. As I reflect upon the many years behind me I consider myself very fortunate to have been surrounded by so many senior devotees, most of whom were disciples of Srila Prabhupada. Though I could not understand it at the time, being around these strong personalities helped to make me strong through all the rough times I would have to face in the future. Still I sadly remember treating these rare souls as though they were my equal. I had no idea who they were and to some degree today, I still remain in ignorance of who they are. And even sadder it is, that I didn’t even know what services they performed or the austerities they endured while serving Srila Prabhupada. Many did not have a proper place to sleep or proper meals and almost all lacked warm clothing. Some were Srila Prabhupadas personal servant; some were temple presidents while others did book distribution for years. All of these I have not done and truthfully, could never do. Being a devotee for a number of years I feel I have a lot to give but so did these devotees and my foolishness stopped them from giving me what could have made me a better devotee. If only I had the wisdom then to sit before them and just listen with respect I would be much richer in spiritual insight today. Now many of them are gone, the opportunity is gone and I sit here lamenting over the fact that I was given a great treasure and lost it. Such a valuable asset sat before me within arms reach, day after day, year after year and I squandered it. They would have handed me years of experience and knowledge but because I acted like a silly clown the doors were closed. Had I even a small amount of humility then they would have opened up their hearts to me and my spiritual advancement would have taken giant steps. Had I even tried a little bit to serve them with but a token amount of submission the road to my spiritual journey would have been so much easier to travel. I actually feel bad when devotees around me mistakenly judge me about the amount of service I rendered in the past. Perhaps the senior devotees I mistakenly judged felt the same way. I can surely say that I cannot match the immense service the devotees rendered to Srila Prabhupada, nor can I say that I suffered so many setbacks as did they. I cannot say that I could even pass the extreme tests that they did when encountering problems in India or preaching amidst deprogrammers. It was they that struggled so hard so that I would have a temple to go to in India, it was they that sweated day and night so that I had one of Srila Prabhupadas books to read and it was they that I saw on the streets singing Hare Krsna that inspired me towards spiritual life. Had I only a small amount of appreciation for these brave souls for their sacrifices, their stories would have steered me clear of so many personal setbacks of my own. If for one minute I could have thought that it was possible that they knew more than me and acted accordingly, their loving advice would have saved me many tears. Happily, by Krsna's grace it is not too late to dive into the open hearts of these advanced devotees taking advantage of their deep realizations. Somehow, I have learned, that they do know more than me and they are more advanced than me and it will be by their kindness that I am able to take a few steps closer to Krsna. And what about the steps I have already taken, are they not the mercy of senior devotees? They have certainly blessed me with their realizations and it is a wonderful feeling. So now I am learning to act so that they will welcome me into their association and accept whatever little service I offer them. My offenses to them caused them to turn away from me and it hurts and thus my realizations are, that the lost of devotee association is the greatest tragedy in this world. There is no greater lost or misfortune than to find oneself in separation of their friendship. I have also learned to open my heart to them, in turn they have greeted me with love and affection. Looking at my own actions to my junior devotees I think that I have not equaled the kindness afforded me from Srila Prabhupadas disciples. I need these devotees; I need them to advance in Krsna consciousness. I need them to stay afloat in spiritual life. When I came to ISKCON everything was there, the morning program, the deities, the books and the temples. Had it not been for them I would not even have a place to live. Maybe they will forgive me one day for having neglected them for so many years and not appreciating the sacrifices they made. So let me now offer my most humble obeisances to all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, no matter who they are for they are certainly very dear to Krsna having served His pure devotee Srila Prabhupada, when love was the only motive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realist Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 One must command respect by their humility, honesty and dedication to solely Srila Prabhupada. Those who demand respect with external imitation and show do not deserve respect no matter whose disciple they are. Remember, Srila Prabhupada was very critical of his Godbrothers because they never understood the preaching instructions of Lord Caitanya.. The method of understanding shastra is Guru, Sadhu and Shastra. Spiritual life is not a democracy where 10 or 11 give their presentation on Spiritual scripture and that vote makes right, no, it is NOT like that at all. I heard one lecture in MELBOURNE by a sanyasi GBC (Ramai Swami) that suggested we not only see what Srila Prabhupada says, but also see IF other Vaishnava’s agree with Srila Prabhupada. That’s the arrogant impression this sanyasi's lecture gave. The fact is, ISKCONS understanding of ALL previous Acharays is ONLY found through and strickly based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, AND NO ONE ELSE. More than 10 or 11 of his Godbrothers did not agree with him, especially on the origin of the jiva soul coming down from Goloka. ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) certainly will never accept Sridhar Maharaja’s teachings we originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti. ISKCON is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada found in his BOOKS, MORNING WALKS AND LECTURES. If ISKCON becomes polluted by the 'outside' influences and beliefs of the Gaudiya math, then it will become arrogant and stagnated like the Gaudiya math. Srila Prabhupada has said everything we need to know HE has given us EVERYTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Srila Prabhupada has said everything we need to know HE has given us. The issue is that there are several internal camps in Prabhupada's sanga that disagree on several major issues of siddhanta. Obviously the origin of the jiva is one of them, but there are others such as, succesion, or who is really a guru which covers the rtvik issue and guru tattva in general; the issue of centralization, which covers the role of the GBC; the issue of book distribution and how it should be carried out; Varnasrama dharma and farm communities and all other aspects of DVD; the poison issue, which still is important to some. Even within the ISKCON institution proper, these battles rage on as they have for the last thirty years. The saga of Goura Govinda Maharaja and the GBC and ultimately his passing is a clear example. Goura Govinda Maharaja did not accept the fall position of the GBC OOP and the GBC was coming to purge him exactly at the time he left this world. Srila Prabhupada has said everything we need to know HE has given us. If one reads the quotes below with an open mind they will see how the Prabhupada-onlyite camp in all it's myriad forms, only selectively quotes Srila Prabhupada, ignoring those statements by him which they cannot fit into their narrow conception, . . . False devotees think that studying books of the previous acaryas is inadvisable, like studying dry empiric philosophies. But Srila Jiva Goswami, following the previous acaryas, has inculcated the conclusions of the scriptures in the six theses called the Sat-sandarbhas. False devotees who have very little knowledge of such conclusions fail to achieve pure devotion for want of zeal in accepting the favorable directions for devotional service given by self-realized devotees. (Cc. Adi-lila 2.117, purport) Bhaktivinoda Thakura happens to be acaryas, one of the acaryas. And he has left behind him many books. Caitanya-siksamrta, Jaiva Dharma. These are very important books. They’re in Bengali, in Sanskrit. And many songs. He has prepared many books of song. The song, Ei nam gaya gauracand madhura svare, that is Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s song. So we are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books also in English translation. Gradually you will get it. (690923BA.LON) Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda’s books or earlier books of other, all acaryas. So I was just wondering... Prabhupada: I never said that. Amogha: You didn’t say that? Oh. Prabhupada: How is that? Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous acaryas’ books. Prabhupada: No, you should read. (750513mw.per) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 <dir> <dir> ". . . who is the most highly competent of all my godbrothers. This is B. R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru." (SP Ltr Hrsikesa ~ 69-01-29) "What Sripada Sridhara Maharaja has directed, I take it on my head . . . it is appropriate that I should accept his direction." (SP Ltr Govinda Mj ~ 69-01-29) What Govinda Maharaja has said is true. I consider him my dear son, and his guru as my siksa guru. (SP ~ Iskcon Mayapur Candrodaya Mandira opening ceremony 1974) Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Sridhara Maharaja and others. (770113RC.ALL) One of my important Godbrothers says. He’s sincere. (731211M2.LA) in ref to (SP Ltr Bon Mj 75-07-07) & (760122MW.MAY) </dir> </dir> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 You know realist their are many on this board who view Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and even their disciples as their own gurus both diksa and siksa and it is really offensive of you to come in the midst of them are stones towards their teachers. It even offends me who has no particular allegiance to any one teacher. I see it simply as offending friends of God. You are not fooloing anyone here into believing you are a "100% Prabhupada Man" by criticizing his Godbrothers. We here have all seen through that thin smokescreen of long long ago. You want to be a Prabhupada man. Then love Krsna. Serve Krsna. Give Krsna to others. Let us see if you can inspire as many as Sridhar Maharaja has done. Or Naranyan Maharaja or any of hundred other disciples in lines we are not familar with. But you don't seem interested in thast relly or you wouldn't spend time seeking out and baiting others with posts that are designed only to inflame and disturb others who are not in your group. Yeah I know I am a real loud mouth but I can't taske this crap and remain silent. Some years back I was taking lunch at the local iskcon temple where it was my custom to to go and chant some japa. All was nice until a group of people started critcizing and ridiculing Naranyan Maharaja. I spoke up and they shut up. I wasn't about to leave my prasad unfinished. no was I willing to let myself get poisoned through my ears. EVERYONE PLEASE STOP ALL OF THIS CRITICISM OF OTHER DEVOTEES,OTHER THEISTS AND EVEN OTHER SPIRITUALISTS FROM VARIOUS SCHOOLS. Even out and out frauds who are open to such criticism don't serve so much attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dittos to what Beggar and theist have said, but allow me to address one particular point. I heard one lecture in MELBOURNE by a sanyasi GBC (Ramai Swami) that suggested we not only see what Srila Prabhupada says, but also see IF other Vaishnava’s agree with Srila Prabhupada. Perhaps you misunderstood Sripad Ramai Swami's statement. Perhaps, what Swami-ji is saying that, we must verify *OUR UNDERSTANDING* of what Srila Prabhupada has said with Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra. Otherwise, we are likely to misinterpret the statements of the acharya and concoct something poisonous out of our own minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dittos to what Beggar and theist have said, but allow me to address one particular point. Perhaps you misunderstood Sripad Ramai Swami's statement. Perhaps, what Swami-ji is saying that, we must verify *OUR UNDERSTANDING* of what Srila Prabhupada has said with Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra. Otherwise, we are likely to misinterpret the statements of the acharya and concoct something poisonous out of our own minds. "Do not hesitate to use your American and European brains to increase, that is Krishna's special gift to you, now use it. Any activity which will please Krishna should be accepted favorably, this is our guiding principle. Now apply it in this way, by doing everything and anything for spreading this Krishna Conscious literature, and this is really pleasing to Krishna, know it for certain." (Letter to disciple, Saturday, 27 November, 1971) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 "Do not hesitate to use your American and European brains to increase, that is Krishna's special gift to you, now use it. Any activity which will please Krishna should be accepted favorably, this is our guiding principle. Now apply it in this way, by doing everything and anything for spreading this Krishna Conscious literature, and this is really pleasing to Krishna, know it for certain." (Letter to disciple, Saturday, 27 November, 1971) I know noone nowadays likes when people quote Prabhupada but I gotta admit that is a nice quote and one I had never seen before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 It`s the duality again. Senior and Junior. Go beyond this duality and be situated in your original self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dittos to what Beggar and theist have said, but allow me to address one particular point. Perhaps you misunderstood Sripad Ramai Swami's statement. Perhaps, what Swami-ji is saying that, we must verify *OUR UNDERSTANDING* of what Srila Prabhupada has said with Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra. Otherwise, we are likely to misinterpret the statements of the acharya and concoct something poisonous out of our own minds. Nice and intelligent posting, maybe realist can learn something from this and stop being bitter and allowing the past to eat away at him, thats what it seems to me. Ramai Swami should be given the credit of maintaing his Krishna consciousness over the last 34 years. Realist learn to forgive and get over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 You know realist their are many on this board who view Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and even their disciples as their own gurus both diksa and siksa and it is really offensive of you to come in the midst of them are stones towards their teachers. It even offends me who has no particular allegiance to any one teacher. I see it simply as offending friends of God. You are not fooloing anyone here into believing you are a "100% Prabhupada Man" by criticizing his Godbrothers. We here have all seen through that thin smokescreen of long long ago. You want to be a Prabhupada man. Then love Krsna. Serve Krsna. Give Krsna to others. Let us see if you can inspire as many as Sridhar Maharaja has done. Or Naranyan Maharaja or any of hundred other disciples in lines we are not familar with. But you don't seem interested in thast relly or you wouldn't spend time seeking out and baiting others with posts that are designed only to inflame and disturb others who are not in your group. Yeah I know I am a real loud mouth but I can't taske this crap and remain silent. Some years back I was taking lunch at the local iskcon temple where it was my custom to to go and chant some japa. All was nice until a group of people started critcizing and ridiculing Naranyan Maharaja. I spoke up and they shut up. I wasn't about to leave my prasad unfinished. no was I willing to let myself get poisoned through my ears. EVERYONE PLEASE STOP ALL OF THIS CRITICISM OF OTHER DEVOTEES,OTHER THEISTS AND EVEN OTHER SPIRITUALISTS FROM VARIOUS SCHOOLS. Even out and out frauds who are open to such criticism don't serve so much attention. I was really moved reading this post from deep in the heart of theist. Theist you humbly bring Vaishnava etiquette to all these threads however, we must not get complacent or sentimental because, as you know, not all paths including those claiming they are Vaishnava's, lead to Krishna. We must learn to tell the difference between a real diamond and the glass imitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 We must learn to tell the difference between a real diamond and the glass imitation. Yeah that's real Vaisnava etiquette, to infer that all of Prabhupada's godbrothers are imitation. The Sleeper-Vad doctrine is imitationist and therefore a new sahajiya sampradaya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 One must command respect by their humility, honesty and dedication to solely Srila Prabhupada. Those who demand respect with external imitation and show do not deserve respect no matter whose disciple they are. Remember, Srila Prabhupada was very critical of his Godbrothers because they never understood the preaching instructions of Lord Caitanya.. The method of understanding shastra is Guru, Sadhu and Shastra. Spiritual life is not a democracy where 10 or 11 give their presentation on Spiritual scripture and that vote makes right, no, it is NOT like that at all. I heard one lecture in MELBOURNE by a sanyasi GBC (Ramai Swami) that suggested we not only see what Srila Prabhupada says, but also see IF other Vaishnava’s agree with Srila Prabhupada. That’s the arrogant impression this sanyasi's lecture gave. The fact is, ISKCONS understanding of ALL previous Acharays is ONLY found through and strickly based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, AND NO ONE ELSE. More than 10 or 11 of his Godbrothers did not agree with him, especially on the origin of the jiva soul coming down from Goloka. ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) certainly will never accept Sridhar Maharaja’s teachings we originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti. ISKCON is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada found in his BOOKS, MORNING WALKS AND LECTURES. If ISKCON becomes polluted by the 'outside' influences and beliefs of the Gaudiya math, then it will become arrogant and stagnated like the Gaudiya math. Srila Prabhupada has said everything we need to know HE has given us EVERYTHING! I've read this over and over again, except for the critizism of Ramai Swami, this post is really not that bad. I travelled with Ramai Swami some years ago, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service and preaches to the devotees. Anyway here is that lecture that I found interesting Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.31The scriptures says it all and one does not have to speculate 9.3MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 13/11/07; 9:28:50 AM to the Daily Class dept. Comment (0) Trackback [0] Daily Class - Ramai Swami Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.38 - Krsna's purposes are inconceivable 7.8MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 14/11/07; 10:17:23 AM to the D Daily Class - Ramai Swami Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.31The scriptures says it all and one does not have to speculate 9.3MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 13/11/07; 9:28:50 AM to the Daily Class dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigraha Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Yeah that's real Vaisnava etiquette, to infer that all of Prabhupada's godbrothers are imitation. The Sleeper-Vad doctrine is imitationist and therefore a new sahajiya sampradaya. I just listened to that lecture from Ramai Swami and just like realist jumped to concocted conclusions about his very inspiring class, you have put an interpretation on what I have said. I was not referring to Sridhar Maharaj or Narayana Maharaj, in fact I see them as another bonafide branch of Lord Caitanya's tree and NOT on the level of a glass imitation - they are the real thing, great devotees of Krishna and dear friends of Srila Prabhupada, they are diamonds in the Vaishnava tradition of Lord Caitanya however, regardless of the different philosophical viewpoints, we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few of us would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 If ISKCON becomes polluted by the 'outside' influences and beliefs of the Gaudiya math, then it will become arrogant and stagnated like the Gaudiya math. The above statement is a Logical Fallacy or an example of a Methodological Error in a Process of Reason. Laziness (Argument By Uninformed Opinion), The Gaudiya Math broke into two camps immediately upon the disappearance of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. The GBC of one camp elected Vasudeva brahmacari as the acarya. When he fell down that camp fragmented. Essentially there has been no Gaudiya Math institution since the early 40's. This entire line of thinking is Oversimplification . Also it is an important point to note that Srila Prabhupada himself was a member of the Gaudiya Math. Since you cannot defeat Srila Sridhar Maharaja's ideas then you must retreat to Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man) Ad hominem or ATTACKING THE PERSON. Attacking the arguer rather than his/her argument. Now, just an observation: Anyone who goes to Vrndavana-Govardhan for Kartik or Navadvipa-Mayapur for Gaura Purnima can see that the number of non-Indian devotees in the non-ISKCON camp has finally surpassed the number of non-Indian devotees in the ISKCON camp. This is a process that has been gradually building over the last twenty-five years. If what you, in your uninformed manner call the Gaudiya Math is stagnant then why is it achieving so much success in it's preaching. Why is ISKCON so threatened by the Narayana Maharaja movement, because it is stagnant or because it is expansive? The answer is obvious. This just shows how the Prabhupada-onlyite Sleeper-vadis are carrying a stagnant and quite arrogant conception as they wallow in a fairytale past that never really existed, on all levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I was not referring to Sridhar Maharaj or Narayana Maharaj, in fact I see them as another bonafide branch of Lord Caitanya's tree and NOT on the level of a glass imitation - they are the real thing, great devotees of Krishna and dear friends of Srila Prabhupada, they are diamonds in the Vaishnava tradition of Lord Caitanya however, regardless of the different philosophical viewpoints, we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few of us would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj. Actually your words warm my heart. There are always some philosophical differences amongst pure devotees, I just don't see one over the origin of the soul. As far as this point is concerned, "we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few of us would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj", I agree with what you have written here one-hundred per cent. Wow! Agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 ....we must not get complacent or sentimental because, as you know, not all paths including those claiming they are Vaishnava's, lead to Krishna. We must learn to tell the difference between a real diamond and the glass imitation. Yes I believe in being strong and straight forward phliosophically but we should go easy on the individuals that we disagree with. Now the out and out frauds and cheater gurus of any school are fair game in my book along with the politicians. Now I disagree that all Vaisnava paths do not lead to Krsna. If by Vaisnava you mean genuine Vaisnava which is personalism and not the mayavadi imitation then how could they not lead to Krsna? Coming to Krsna takes grace from Krsna. Are we to believe that if we don't all accept this view of the souls' origin or that one then Krsna will withhold His grace from us, or anyone else? Only the GV's get to know the Supreme Person and not the Sri Vaisnava's or Madhvaites? Or the true follower of Christ? I cannot accept this point of view Vigraha. Such a confined and restricted view of God. This has always been the problem. Humans trying to keep God confined to their own little box. Now God certainly is in the box but we forget He is also everywhere else as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Now I disagree that all Vaisnava paths do not lead to Krsna. . Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>....we must not get complacent or sentimental because, as you know, not all paths including those claiming they are Vaishnava's, lead to Krishna. We must learn to tell the difference between a real diamond and the glass imitation</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> You have misread Vigraha's post above Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha I was not referring to Sridhar Maharaj or Narayana Maharaj, in fact I see them as another bonafide branch of Lord Caitanya's tree and NOT on the level of a glass imitation - they are the real thing, great devotees of Krishna and dear friends of Srila Prabhupada, they are diamonds in the Vaishnava tradition of Lord Caitanya however, regardless of the different philosophical viewpoints, we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few of us would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Hare Krishna, well now thats an interesting comment that I did not anticipate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dear Prabhus, Re: LEADERSHIP I found the below three items. I cannot attest to its verbatim accuratcy. Ys, Bhaktajan ............................................................................................................................ "… It is a qualification of the great thinkers to pick up the best even from the worst. It is said that the intelligent man should pick up nectar from a stock of poison, should accept gold even from a filthy place, should accept a good and qualified wife even from an obscure family and should accept a good lesson even from a man or from a teacher who comes from the untouchables. These are some of the ethical instructions for everyone in every place without exception. Just like in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there? Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. …" Srila Prabhupada <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Calcutta</st1:City></st1:place>, 5/17/71 ………………………………………………………………. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami used to say in connection to this story, "It is better to be a good one than a big one." Thinking oneself to be big--even in spiritual pursuits -- is the cause of falldown. "I am Brahman", "I am siddha", "I am self-realized", "I am a pundit", even "I am a Vaisnava" are all egotistical assertions. Rather, the serious aspirant for spiritual advancement should realize himself as an insignificant particle of dust under the lotus feet of his spiritual master and the Vaisnavas.· ………………………………………………………………. LEADERSHIP TIPS —Bhakti-tirtha Swami: "As a leader, you can help create an atmosphere where people begin to experience the higher pleasures. Seek positive lessons inherent in apparently negative events. As you seek the common denominator, look for how a higher good can come out of each situation, and take steps to make it happen. Everything is available to you if you connect properly. Always examine each situation carefully in order to gain the maximum benefit from each interaction. If people do not move to a deeper level, they will remain imprisoned in suffering." ………………………………………………………………. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Prabhuji, re: Appreciating the senior devotees : disciples of Srila Prabhupada -- By Jatayu dasa Your letter of contrition is such esoteric nectar. It should be considered a revealed sutra from a avaduta-like persona. This is such "nectar-nectar-nectar." We should all confess our limitations and offenses and late-blooming realizations. After all we are just puppets in maya's hands or we are struggling to perform proper (bhakti) yoga sadhana--even when things are bad or good--it's still up to the individual to apply themselves in remembering Krishna and all the efforts of We-living-entities in our own positiions in this present epoch of preaching. I feel that the real lament is our transient passings among the the differnt number of devotees over time--yet without our own full participation in all the Temple pastimes afforded us over the years. The 'mood of seperation' from Krishna's name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage, and pastimes fills us with aches all over at all times--so we must culture a relationship with the sanga that alleviates these pains--we do it on the 'honor-system' [without supervision by a temple personage]. This is why we must pray for other devotees' happiness and success in life. As a suggestion: Please, when observing ekadasis do it while attending a mandir or ashram, at least when you can. ys, Bhaktajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 That's a kind way to view Jatayu Prabhu's letter. In my critical consciousness, I saw it as a not-so-humble patting of one's self on the back. Prabhuji,re: Appreciating the senior devotees : disciples of Srila Prabhupada -- By Jatayu dasa Your letter of contrition is such esoteric nectar. It should be considered a revealed sutra from a avaduta-like persona. This is such "nectar-nectar-nectar." We should all confess our limitations and offenses and late-blooming realizations. After all we are just puppets in maya's hands or we are struggling to perform proper (bhakti) yoga sadhana--even when things are bad or good--it's still up to the individual to apply themselves in remembering Krishna and all the efforts of We-living-entities in our own positiions in this present epoch of preaching. I feel that the real lament is our transient passings among the the differnt number of devotees over time--yet without our own full participation in all the Temple pastimes afforded us over the years. The 'mood of seperation' from Krishna's name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage, and pastimes fills us with aches all over at all times--so we must culture a relationship with the sanga that alleviates these pains--we do it on the 'honor-system' [without supervision by a temple personage]. This is why we must pray for other devotees' happiness and success in life. As a suggestion: Please, when observing ekadasis do it while attending a mandir or ashram, at least when you can. ys, Bhaktajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 That's a kind way to view Jatayu Prabhu's letter. In my critical consciousness, I saw it as a not-so-humble patting of one's self on the back. Yes, "critical consciousness" - there's great need to do therapy with: THE SRI SIKSASTAKA 1- ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha--davagni-nirvapanam sreyah-kairava-candrika-vitaranam vidya-vadhu-jivanam anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam . Glory to the Sri Krsna sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious. 2- namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaivam idrsam ihajani nanuragah O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krsna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by chanting Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them. . 3- trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly. 4- na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth. 5- ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram patitam mam visame bhavambudhau krpaya tava pada-pankaja- sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krsna), I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms of Your lotus feet. 6- nayanam galad-asru-dharaya vadanam gadgada-ruddhaya gira pulakair nicitam vapuh kada tava nama-grahane bhavisyati O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs on my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name? 7- yugayitam nimesena caksusa pravrsayitam sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me O Govinda! Felling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence. 8- aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly in His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 May I take Sriman Mahaprabhu's teaching upon my head and into my heart. For now, I follow the Sahajiya's creed: fake it 'til you make it. Yes, "critical consciousness" - there's great need to do therapy with: THE SRI SIKSASTAKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dear Prabhu, ys, Bhaktajan Re: There is no contradiction: ". . . Vedic principles are accepted as axiomatic truth, for there cannot be any mistake. That is acceptance. For instance, in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> cow dung is accepted as pure, and yet cow dung is the stool of an animal. In one place you’ll find the Vedic injunction that if you touch stool, you have to take a bath immediately. But in another place it is said that the stool of a cow is pure. If you smear cow dung in an impure place, that place becomes pure. With our ordinary sense we can argue, “This is contradictory.” Actually, it is contradictory from the ordinary point of view, but it is not false. It is fact. In <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Calcutta</st1:place></st1:City>, a very prominent scientist and doctor analyzed cow dung and found that it contains all antiseptic properties. In <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> if one person tells another, “You must do this,” the other party may say, “What do you mean? Is this a Vedic injunction, that I have to follow you without any argument?” Vedic injunctions cannot be interpreted. But ultimately, if you carefully study why these injunctions are there, you will find that they are all correct. . . ." [srila Prabhupada, 'Introduction'—Sri Isopanisad]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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