Our constitutional body is eternal, presently we are all dreaming

[Laulyam 0]

Vrajanatha: So maya has nothing whatever to do with creating the svarupa of the jivas – this has to be accepted. At the same time, I have also clearly understood that the jiva is by nature subject to the influence of maya. Now I want to know, did the cit-sakti create the jivas and give them their tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)?

Babaji: No, the cit-sakti is paripurna-sakti, the complete potency of Krsna, and its manifestations are all eternally perfect substances.The jiva is not nitya-siddha, although when he performs sadhana, he can become sadhana-siddha and enjoy transcendental happiness like the nitya-siddhas, eternally perfect beings. All the four types of Srimati Radhika’s sakhis are nitya-siddha, and they are direct expansions (kaya-vyuha) of the cit-sakti, Srimati Radhika Herself. All the jivas, on the other hand, have manifested from Sri Krsna’s jiva-sakti. The cit-sakti is Sri Krsna’s complete sakti, whereas the jiva-sakti is His incomplete sakti. Just as the complete tattvas are all transformations of the complete potency, similarly innumerable atomic, conscious jivas are transformations of the incomplete sakti.

Sri Krsna, being established in each of His saktis, manifests His svarupa according to the nature of that sakti. When He is situated in the cit-svarupa, He manifests His svarupa as Sri Krsna and also as Narayana, the Lord of Paravyoma; when He is situated in the jiva-sakti, He manifests His svarupa as His vilasa-murti of Vraja, Baladeva; and being established in the maya-sakti, He manifests the three Visnu forms: Karanodakasayi, Ksirodakasayi and Garbhodakasayi. In His Krsna form in Vraja, He manifests all the spiritual affairs to the superlative degree. In His Baladeva svarupa as sesa-tattva, He manifests nitya-mukta-parsada-jivas, eternally liberated associates, who render eight types of service to Krsna sesitattva-svarupa, the origin of sesa-tattva. Again, as sesa-rupa Sankarsana in Paravyoma, He manifests eight types of servants to render eight kinds of services as eternally liberated associates of sesi-rupa Narayana. Maha-Visnu, who is an avatara of Sankarsana, situates Himself in the jiva-sakti, and in His Paramatma svarupa, He manifests the jivas who have the potential to be involved in the material world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya, and unless they attain the shelter of the hladini-sakti of the cit-sakti by Bhagavan’s mercy, the possibility of their being defeated by maya remains. The countless conditioned jivas who have been conquered by maya are subordinate to the three modes of material nature. Bearing all this in mind, the siddhanta is that it is only the jiva-sakti, and not the cit-sakti, that manifests the jivas.

Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we accept that it is eternal?

Babaji: The time and space that you experience in this material world are completely different from time and space in the spiritual world. Material time is divided into three aspects: past, present and future. However, in the spiritual world there is only one undivided, eternally present time. Every event of the spiritual world is eternally present.

Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say – “The jivas were created,” “The spiritual world was manifested,” or “There is no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas,” – material time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jiva and spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter. Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization.

All Vaisnavas say that the jiva is an eternal servant of Krsna, that his eternal nature is to serve Krsna, and that he is now bound by maya, because he has forgotten that eternal nature. However, everyone knows that the jiva is an eternal entity, of which there are two types: nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. The subject has been explained in this way only because the conditioned human intellect being controlled by pramada (inattentiveness), is unable to comprehend a subject matter. Realized sadhakas, though, experience transcendental truth through their cit-samadhi. Our words always have some material limitation, so whatever we say will have some mayika defects. My dear son, you should always endeavor to realize the pure truth. Logic and argument cannot help at all in this regard, so it is futile to use them to try to understand inconceivable subject matters.

I know that you will not be able to understand these subjects in a moment, but as you cultivate these transcendental moods within your heart, you will realize cinmaya-bhava more and more. In other words, all the transcendental moods will manifest themselves in the core of your purified heart. Your body is material, and all the activities of your body are also material, but the essence of your being is not material; you are an atomic conscious entity. The more you know yourself, the more you will be able to realize how your svarupa is a tattva superior to the world of maya. Even if I tell you, you will not realize it, or simply be hearing you will not attain it. Cultivate the practice of chanting hari-nama as much as possible. As you go on chanting hari-nama, these transcendental bhavas will begin to manifest in your heart automatically, and to the degree that they do so, you will be able to realize the transcendental world. Mind and speech both have their origin in matter, and they cannot touch the transcendental truth, even with the greatest endeavor. The Vedas say in Taittiriya Upanisad (2.9)

 

 

 

yato vaco nivartante aprapya manasa saha

 

The speech and the mind return from brahma, being unable to attain Him.

I advise you not to inquire about this matter from anyone, but to realize it yourself. I have just given you an indication (abhasa).

http://bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html

[Vigraha 0]

 

 

We are all presently dreaming within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are all presently dreaming within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia

“Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila” Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

 

 

 

Many skeptics and those who foolishly believe we originate from the Brahmajyoti ask – “Please where have you heard this idea that we originally came from Goloka? Who is teaching you this? Is this your own understanding?”

 

 

 

 

ANSWER -

 

Srila Prabhupada teaches us - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". [letter to Jagadisa das, 1970]

Srila Prabhupada: "So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, therefore we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment. Iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. Find out this verse. Lecture Washington DC Temple 1976

[Vigraha 0]

 

 

The dreaming Maha-Vishnu's dreams is where we go when we miss use our free will and choose to forget our perpetual 'svarupa' body in Goloka

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kailasa Candra dasa explains - “Although he is constitutionally eternal, blissful, and cognizant, due to the littleness of his existence, he forgets his constitutional position of service to the Lord and is thus entrapped by nescience. And, under the spell of ignorance, the living entity claims that the Lord is responsible for his conditional existence." - Bhagavad-gita, Chapter 5, verse 15, purport

We all can enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no-one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva (material creation)

An individual's svarupa, in direct relationship with the Lord, is an elaborate subject. One of five primary mellows (rasas) constitutes the svarupa of the living being in his perfectional stage. These primary rasas are exchanged in Vaikuntha or Goloka, in the eternal spiritual sky. How can we regain that particular relationship if we have never had it? How can we reclaim it if we had never had an active claim to it? How can it be revived if it was never operational? How can we have forgotten it if we never once remembered relishing it? "No-fall" does not answer these questions.

[Vigraha 0]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album 1966) In this way we have entered within the darker cloud of maha-Vishnu's creation as shown below, in a secondary dreaming consciousness even while our 'svarupa' body is perpetually situated in Goloka.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being. . . has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi—perfection of one’s constitutional position . . . We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one . . . the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity . . . The Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Introduction to Bhagavad-gita asa it is,

[Vigraha 0]

Caitanya Caritamrita. Madhya 22.107.

 

 

 

nitya-siddha krsna-prema ‘sädhya’ kabhu naya

 

çravaëädi-çuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

 

 

 

 

“Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens."

Srila Prabhupada - “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities... Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 -- San Francisco, March 28, 1968

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha’.

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

So it is due to the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious desires that ones secondary dreaming conscious aspect of their marginal identity (nitya-baddha) enters the dark mahat-tattva cloud in the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti. This is made possible by to the marginal living entities choice or free will not to be serving Krishna as their original 'svarupa' bodily rasa relationship which only leaves one to dream on as their inferior nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness.

 

 

 

 

 

The nitya-siddha-svarupa body (eternally in the imperishable present atmosphere of Goloka devoid of past and future) and the nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned in a temporary perishable atmosphere divided into past, present and future) sub-conscious bodiless state are the two characteristics of every marginal living entity.

 

 

 

 

 

It is important to understand that the nitya-siddha-svarupa transcendental Krishna Conscious body is perpetually the ‘original’ (technically without beginning or end) bodily form of the marginal living entity, where as the nitya-baddha consciousness has no bodily form until it is provided one by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva

[Acyutananda das 0]

Yes, I quoted this verse (Caitanya Caritamrita. Madhya 22.107.) in the another topic, because Guruvani wanted shastric evidences. So we can find many evidences like this - the Truth is on Your side Vigraha!!!

[Guruvani 0]

 

Yes, I quoted this verse (Caitanya Caritamrita. Madhya 22.107.) in the another topic, because Guruvani wanted shastric evidences. So we can find many evidences like this - the Truth is on Your side Vigraha!!!

 

We have to remember that the brahmajyoti is the impersonal form of Krishna. He has two forms - personal and impersonal.

 

Shanta-rasa is love of Krishna in his impersonal form or the personal form if it reaches to Paramatma realization. There are two forms of shanta-rasa; impersonal realization and Paramatma realization which are both forms of Krishna.

 

Even though love of Krishna is eternally in the heart it cannot "AWAKEN" without the seed of devotional service which is recieved from the spiritual master.

 

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brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

 

SYNONYMS

brahmāṇḍa bhramite — wandering in this universe; kona — some; bhāgyavān — most fortunate; jīva — living being; guru — of the spiritual master; kṛṣṇa — of Kṛṣṇa; prasāde — by the mercy; pāya — gets; bhakti-latā — of the creeper of devotional service; bīja — the seed.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.

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So, without the seed of DEVOTIONAL SERVICE the Krishna-prema in the heart of the jiva cannot awaken and blossom to it's fullest potential.

 

Without the seed of devotional service, all the soul can understand is love of the impersonal form of Krishna in shanta-rasa.

 

So, it appears that the Krishna-prema of the shanta-rasa is a most undeveloped and immature form of Krishna-prema of the lowest standard.

 

The spiritual master can plant the seed of a higher kind of Krishna-prema in a higher form of devotional service.

 

Shanta-rasa is NEUTRAL love of Krishna.

The bhakti-lata-bija allows active, positive and progressive love of Krishna in one of the higher rasas.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Aaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm!!

[Acyutananda das 0]

Dear Guruvani pr!

 

So, it appears that the Krishna-prema of the shanta-rasa is a most undeveloped and immature form of Krishna-prema of the lowest standard.

 

There's no Krshna-prema in shanta rasa. According to the Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu, this extremly concentrated love for Krishna is characterized by mamanta (possessivenes) or madiyatamaya-bhava - the feeling of "You are mine". This is only possible in personal relationship. In the shanta rasa one only have the tadiyatamaya bhava - the feeling of "I'm Yours". So there's no prema in shanta rasa. But the verse speaks about prema. So our original position is a personal relationship (not shanta rasa) with the Lord.

 

ys, Acyutananda das

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Deja vu!!! Didn't I see this exact comment on another thread?

 

 

Dear Guruvani pr!

 

So, it appears that the Krishna-prema of the shanta-rasa is a most undeveloped and immature form of Krishna-prema of the lowest standard.

 

There's no Krshna-prema in shanta rasa. According to the Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu, this extremly concentrated love for Krishna is characterized by mamanta (possessivenes) or madiyatamaya-bhava - the feeling of "You are mine". This is only possible in personal relationship. In the shanta rasa one only have the tadiyatamaya bhava - the feeling of "I'm Yours". So there's no prema in shanta rasa. But the verse speaks about prema. So our original position is a personal relationship (not shanta rasa) with the Lord.

 

ys, Acyutananda das

[Guruvani 0]

 

 

There's no Krshna-prema in shanta rasa.

 

ys, Acyutananda das

 

Then why is it classified as "rasa".

 

Shanta-rasa is one of of the five rasas exchanged with the Lord.

 

There can be no exchange of rasa without prema.

 

Chapter 35: Neutral Love of God

 

In the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu it is said that when Lord Kṛṣṇa was blowing His conchshell known as Pāñcajanya, many great sages who were living in the caves of the mountains immediately reacted, being awakened from their trance of meditation. They immediately saw that the hairs of their bodies were standing. Sometimes devotees in śānta-rasa become stunned, peaceful, jubilant, deliberate, reflective, anxious, dexterous and argumentative. These symptoms indicate continuous ecstasy, or established emotion.

 

Sounds like ecstatic emotions in love of Godhead to me.

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

 

 

 

Here is found the words of bonafide wisdom of what the eternal potential and full character (svarupa bodily form) of what the jiva soul or marginal living entity really is?

 

It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan (the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceType>Kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>) as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa or atma (self) vigraha (bodily form) devotional body.

Therefore it is a fact that presently it is due to that our mundane roaming projected consciousness (dull nitya-baddha consciousness (also known as jiva-soul or life-force) has now forgotten while trapped within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within His imperishable mahat-tattva creation .

Srila Prabhupada says that we cannot argue about it, therefore, as Prabhupada's disciples, we have to accept his final words: - "Because he falls down from ‘brahma-sayujya’ (another name for the Impersonal inactive motionless Brahmajoyti), he thinks that may be his origin; but he does not remember that before that even he was with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport" (Lecture in Australia 1972)

 

 

This entire argument is actually a fight against impersonalism, against those who foolishly believe we originate from the impersonal aspect of the brahmajoyti.

 

 

Even though Sila Prabhupada clearly said in his famous crow-and-tal-fruit logic “Don’t waste time, whether we came from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes or from some other spiritual source, at the present you are in neither. So the best policy is to develop your <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness and go there [to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>], never mind what is your origin. What is the use of such discussion?” ”Letter to Australian devotees 1972 ”

 

 

 

This fact is based on Prabupada’s conviction that we did not originate from the impersonal feature of the brahmajoyti which means we all came from Goloka.

 

Personally I am not wasting my time on the ‘origins’ (actually there is no origin) debate because I am 110% aware that we have all originated from either Goloka.

 

 

 

This debate will go on and defeat the rascal mad impersonalists and those who foolishly and arrogantly claim we originate from the impersonal characteristic of the brahmajyoti or tatasta-shakti.

 

Srila Prabhupada can and does say that the living entity (nitya-siddha) never actually falls from the spiritual world however the forgetful consciousness of the living entity (The projected nitya-baddha consciousness) can ‘fall down’ and enter the mahat-tattva in a dream state that simultaneously leaves one authentic body back in Goloka .

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the Spiritual World and return?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?

Srila Prabhupada: - "Every living entity has got a little free will. And <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that".

 

 

 

Real bonafide Vaishnavas or devotees of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> must strongly fight back against these Impersonal ideas that has polluted the teachings of Lord Chaitanya claiming we have all originated from some nonsense tatastha inactive condition of Mayavadi and Buddhist consciousness.

 

[Guruvani 0]

Svarupa does not meant spiritual body.

You keep deceiving yourself and trying to deceive others by saying it is.

Svarupa means constitutional position which Mahaprabhu clearly defined as shanta-rasa.

Your theory only works if you misinterpret Sanskrit words to fit fit in your fairytale.

I don't think you are fooling anybody except yourself.

 

No devotee that reads the books of Srila Prabhupada can be deceived with your word jugglery.

 

svarūpa-sthaḥ — being situated in one's constitutional position

svarūpa — having the nature

svarūpa — the real nature

svarūpa — nature

svarūpa — identity

[Guruvani 0]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.16.26 purport,

 

 

The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuṇṭha planet, for it is the eternal abode.

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

Many of us are convienced of our ‘origins’ (actually there is no origin) Many devotee's are 110% aware that our present consciousness has originated from our true perpetual bodily identity from either Goloka or Vaikuntha.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - 'Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position'. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is

 

 

Because the Kingdom of <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PlaceName>God</ST1:PlaceName> is an <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe).

 

We have wrongly come to believe that all nitya-siddha devotee’s can never fall to their sub-conscious lower self or nitya-baddha dreaming state, however it is possible to fall from ones full bodily self due to non Krishna conscious desires, thoughts, choices and free will, but most do not take that path. It is only the many, many expansions of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that can never fall down.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>,

 

 

"Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

 

Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for Krishna -- and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107):

 

Dormant devotional service to Krishna is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, dormant love for Krishna is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-krishna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija. http://caitanyacaritamrta.com/madhya/19/... Dormant love for Krishna exists in everyone's heart, and it simply has to be awakened by the regulative process of devotional service.

 

The nitya-siddha’s personality, identity and form refer to ones perpetual Krishna Conscious body that is always there in Goloka, even when ones dreaming nitya-baddha-sub-conscious lower self is in the material universe experiencing mistaken desires.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

 

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

 

 

'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

“Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

 

 

 

 

We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu

Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka

 

 

Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

<FONT face="Times New Roman">ALL those who choose to use their free will and forget ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSrila Prabhupada writes: “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

“Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117.

There is no origin to ones nitya-siddha-svarupa body. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they can again realize while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if they turn to Krishna Conscious, or can never realize it for an almost eternity if they choose to miss use their fee will and not to be Krishna Conscious

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

Because the Kingdom of <st1>:PlaceName>God</st1>:PlaceName> is an We have wrongly come to believe that all nitya-siddha devotee’s can never fall to their sub-conscious lower self or nitya-baddha dreaming state, however it is possible to fall from ones full bodily self due to non Krishna conscious desires, thoughts, choices and free will, but most do not take that path. It is only the many, many expansions of Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

Looks like your quote got mangled somehow. That first sentence doesn't make any sense.

 

Hmmmm...I can't find "Kingdom" anywhere here:

http://vedabase.net/sb/3/9/11/en

 

Oh, I see now. The quote is just that last little bit in double quotes. The rest is your own speculation.

 

Your presentation is very scattered, unfocused, and poorly-formatted. It doesn't state the case for your heresy very effectively.

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

Svarupa does not meant spiritual body.

svarūpa-sthaḥ — being situated in one's constitutional position

svarūpa — having the nature

svarūpa — the real nature

svarūpa — nature

svarūpa — identity

 

Are you stupied? What do you think the above means?

 

Srila Prabhupada - "svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad Gita as it is 4.6

 

Madhvacarya's Commentary - "One may wonder that if the Supreme Lord Krishna is eternal then is His svarupa or transcendental body eternal as well? To this Lord Krishna replies that He is unborn. In this verse the words avyaya atma means the eternal body of the Supreme Lord. This also allows for the reality of His many incarnations such as Rama and Buddha. Just as it has been explained previously that the atma or soul being a purely spiritual form is without beginning and eternal, in the same way the svarupa of Lord Krishna should be understood to exist".

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

Are you stupied? What do you think the above means?

 

Now it's obvious why you usually stick to copying and pasting (and why you can't even do that correctly).

 

There's a subtle difference of meaning that seems to escape you.

 

"constitutional nature" is not the same as "spiritual body".

 

In the temporal world, a redwood burl is not a redwood tree yet, though it contains that possibility within it. It is the redwood burl/seed's "constitutional nature" is to be a redwood tree, but humans can still hold that burl/seed in the palm of their hand.

 

Acintya. The "truth" behind this paradox or our eternal nature is inconceivable.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

I never knew that Madhvacharya wrote English commentary--fascinating!!!

 

 

 

Madhvacarya's Commentary - "One may wonder that if the Supreme Lord Krishna is eternal then is His svarupa or transcendental body eternal as well? To this Lord Krishna replies that He is unborn. In this verse the words avyaya atma means the eternal body of the Supreme Lord. This also allows for the reality of His many incarnations such as Rama and Buddha. Just as it has been explained previously that the atma or soul being a purely spiritual form is without beginning and eternal, in the same way the svarupa of Lord Krishna should be understood to exist".

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

Looks like your quote got mangled somehow. That first sentence doesn't make any sense..

 

Look where the quotes starts on your post and you will find it is correct. Thanks for pointing that out

 

This is the full sentence-

 

Because the Kingdom of <ST1:PlaceName>God</ST1:PlaceName> is an <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font size=" /><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe).

“Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

We have wrongly come to believe that all nitya-siddha devotee’s can never fall to their sub-conscious lower self or nitya-baddha dreaming state, however it is possible to fall from ones full bodily self due to non Krishna conscious desires, thoughts, choices and free will, but most do not take that path. It is only the many, many expansions of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that can never fall down.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>,

"Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for Krishna -- and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107)

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Nope, that sentence is still not English. Sorry.

 

"...is an Krishna enter the..."??!?!?!?!

 

It looks like you're having some trouble with HTML. There's a button in the top right corner of the editor that lets one switch into HTML-editing mode. It looks like this:

 

You'll either need to use that to clean up the text you are copying and pasting, or else copy the text into a plain text editor like Notepad (on Windows) and clean it up there before pasting into the Forum.

 

I apologize for my snarky remarks. I am in no way superior to anyone, and your input is certainly welcome.

 

 

This is the full sentence-

 

Because the Kingdom of <st1>:PlaceName>God</st1>:PlaceName> is an <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> enter the forgetful temporary material universal creation of Maha-Vishnu. The sub-conscious lower self or extended consciousness known as the nitya-baddha dreaming secondary self, is simply a non <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious extension of ones authentic or perpetual nitya-siddha body.<font]

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

I never knew that Madhvacharya wrote English commentary--fascinating!!!

 

 

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:p3rmZs-4iIgJ:www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/Commentaries/brahma-intro.html+Madhvacarya%27s+Commentary&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Are you saying the original commentary was written in English? This appears to be a translation, though, from the link below, it's not obvious who the translator was.

 

When a translation is being quoted, one must consider the effect that translation has on the meaning. The meaning as translated may differ from the meaning as written by the original author.

 

 

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:p3rmZs-4iIgJ:www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/Commentaries/brahma-intro.html+Madhvacarya%27s+Commentary&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

[Sarva gattah 0]

Are you trying to be funny? Its obvious he never wrote it in English :

 

Anyway a few more food for thought comments.

 

“Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117.

 

There is no origin to our ‘svarypa or nitya-siddha’ body. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they can realize while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if they turn to Krishna Conscious, or can never realize if they continue to choose to misuse their free will and not be Krishna Conscious.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “By the grace of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o:p]

.

<font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere, either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport

<FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">

<FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Srila Prabhupada - “Only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional state. Whoever is able to renovate such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31<FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “Our separation from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their Lila with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya (Impersonal Brahmajoyti) after being killed three times as demons. This Brahma-sayujya mukti is non-permanent”.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>All Quotes from Bhaktivedanta Archives <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>http://vedabase.