Questions about soul

[theist 1]

 

What i would like to know is- precisely- what is that i am seeing around me (according to Vedas)?

If you are not seeing Krsna then you are seeing His illusory energy or maya.

 

 

 

 

This sentence i don't understand.

First i thought there is One individual soul, that is "floating" all over the body- one for the whole body.

But i don't see, how can each cell have an individual soul. That would mean that i am not the same person as last week, when i was writing on this forum- many cells in my body changed since then..

There is one soul, YOU, who is experiencing human life through a human form. There are also many many other souls who are using the same matter for their purposes. Bacteria for one. Cells for another. The soul that is experiencing life as a human is the dominant soul in the human form. When we leave the human shell at death metabolism stops and the cells stop reproducing and growing and in short order they are all dead also.

 

The cell is not conscious of the fact that it is part of the human body. It's consiousness is only concerned with the cell form it is inhabiting and it's influence as consciousness is spread throughout that one cell just like your consciousness is spread throughout the whole human form.

 

We see the symptoms of individual life in the cell. The cell has it's own metabolism for one. It has it's birth as when cells divide , it's own duration of life and it has it's own death. These are signs a soul is present.

 

 

But i don't see, how can each cell have an individual soul. That would mean that i am not the same person as last week, when i was writing on this forum- many cells in my body changed since then..

No. You think this way because you are assuming that you are the material human body and when the body changes you must also be changing. This is the wrong idea. You are not that body. It is not that you as a human form have a soul but rather you the soul have a human form.

 

 

 

So, what is it that makes my consciousness- One individual souls or combination of bilions of bilions of individual souls?

YOU make up your own consciousness. YOU are one soul or person. Other souls are other souls. It is as simple as that.

[Guest guest]

 

The cell is not conscious of the fact that it is part of the human body. It's consiousness is only concerned with the cell form it is inhabiting and it's influence as consciousness is spread throughout that one cell just like your consciousness is spread throughout the whole human form.

 

This cells consciousness is spread only throughout that one cell.

______________

Let's say i cut my finger. There are 18 000 of cells in it (example).

Each of them has it's own

consciousness that is spread only throughout that one cell. We have 18 000 individual souls.

 

Qestion:

Let's pick just one cell out of these 18 000 and talk about it's consciousness.

What is happening with it's consciousness after the finger is cut off?

[theist 1]

 

This cells consciousness is spread only throughout that one cell.

______________

Let's say i cut my finger. There are 18 000 of cells in it (example).

Each of them has it's own

consciousness that is spread only throughout that one cell. We have 18 000 individual souls.

 

Qestion:

Let's pick just one cell out of these 18 000 and talk about it's consciousness.

What is happening with it's consciousness after the finger is cut off?

No more metabolism for that cell so it dies and the soul that inhabitated the cell form moves on to it's next destination and no I don't know what that is.

 

We should remain concerned with what happens to those of us who have attained human consciousness for from this platform of human life we can attain freedom from birth and death.

 

So the question we should ask is how can I best insure the most positive outcome for me future after I am kicked out of the this present body.

[Guest guest]

 

We should remain concerned with what happens to those of us who have attained human consciousness for from this platform of human life we can attain freedom from birth and death.

 

So the question we should ask is how can I best insure the most positive outcome for me future after I am kicked out of the this present body.

 

OK,

 

i'm interested in my own "human consciousness", i'm interested in most positive outcome- BUT- there is one doubt here...

 

how do you know there is "next level" once you (your consciousness, soul) is kicked out of your present physical body?

 

What makes you believe/know that?

[theist 1]

Logic, teachings of those I respect ie the saints and sages, the fact that I have experienced being outside of my physical body.

 

If I am not the physical body why should I assume that I will cease to be when it ceases to be? It is not me and it's fate is not mine.

[theist 1]

Bg. 2.12 - Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

 

Bg. 2.13 - As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.

 

Bg. 2.14 - O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

 

Bg. 2.15 - O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation.

 

Bg. 2.16 - Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.

 

Bg. 2.17 - That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

 

Bg. 2.18 - The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

 

Bg. 2.19 - Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain.

 

Bg. 2.20 - For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

 

Bg. 2.21 - O Partha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

 

Bg. 2.22 - As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

 

Bg. 2.23 - The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

 

Bg. 2.24 - This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

 

Bg. 2.25 - It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

 

Bg. 2.26 - If, however, you think that the soul [or the symptoms of life] is always born and dies forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty-armed.

 

Bg. 2.27 - One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

 

Bg. 2.28 - All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?

 

Bg. 2.29 - Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all.

 

Bg. 2.30 - O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the body can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for any living being.

[Guest guest]

Is soul just the other name for thought(s)?

[Guest guest]

If soul is described as consciousness-

i think consciousness is mainly thought(s); anything else should be included?

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

Nope. He *have* thoughts, but we are not our thoughts. Thoughts are passing through our mind, which is material. We are not our minds.

 

We (the souls) are "pure" consciousness. In the body, the soul's consciousness is covered by matter, which affects how that consciousness perceives things.

 

Along the lines of what theist was saying about the individual cells in the body each having souls: one of the nicknames for the soul is "the mayor of the city of nine gates". The city is the body (you can figure out the gates (hint: two eyes, two ears...)). That being we indentify as "I" is like the mayor, coordinating the activities of the various citizens of the body.

 

 

If soul is described as consciousness-

i think consciousness is mainly thought(s); anything else should be included?

[Guest guest]

 

There are eight material principles which are described as inferior energies, and they are: (1) earth, (2) water, (3) fire, (4) air, (5) ether, (6) mind, (7) intelligence and (8) ego. Apart from these is the living force, or the antimaterial principle, which is described as the superior energy.

______________________________

 

Nope. He *have* thoughts, but we are not our thoughts. Thoughts are passing through our mind, which is material. We are not our minds.

 

We (the souls) are "pure" consciousness. In the body, the soul's consciousness is covered by matter, which affects how that consciousness perceives things.

 

So, mind is, that we are "talking" through all day...?

Is it possible to "close" the mind?

If we close it, what will we "experience" than? false ego, or soul (anti-material ninth princip?)

 

How can we experience that anti-material soul?

Is this ninth princip anti-material soul Paramatma?

What is than individual soul?

[Guest guest]

 

Is this ninth princip anti-material soul Paramatma?

What is than individual soul?

I would like to change those two questions in:

 

When we say man is:

matter, individual soul and paramatma

 

Which "components" exactly do we mean by that?

 

Components are: (1) earth, (2) water, (3) fire, (4) air, (5) ether, (6) mind, (7) intelligence and (8) ego, (9) antimaterial principle.

 

What makes matter (list)?

What makes individual soul (list)?

What makes paramatma (list)?

[Guest guest]

 

I would like to change those two questions in:

 

When we say man is:

matter, individual soul and paramatma

 

Which "components" exactly do we mean by that?

 

Components are: (1) earth, (2) water, (3) fire, (4) air, (5) ether, (6) mind, (7) intelligence and (8) ego, (9) antimaterial principle.

 

What makes matter (list)?

What makes individual soul (list)?

What makes paramatma (list)?

 

 

the soul is trapped in our matter body.

how and how does consciousness operate under the entrapment?

there is no material consciousness without nerves (nadi). no nerves there then there is no pain/pleasure.

plants and trees and microorganisms and human hair have absolutely no nerves. if you disagree, find the opposite in a biology book.

they are in a long state of deep sleep.

according to Upanishads, our consciousness (nerve fluid) in human nerves goes into heart nerve temporarily when we are in deep sleep. i don't remember what about dream state.

[theist 1]

 

What makes matter (list)?

What makes individual soul (list)?

What makes paramatma (list)?

1.You have the list already.

 

2.You the spiritual being are soul.

 

3. God the Supreme spiritual being is Paramatma.

 

I answered these same questions in post 17. Why ask them again unless you are not reviewing the answers given.

[Guest guest]

Sorry..thank you, sometimes i just need to ask more, to know for sure if i understand correct.

___________________________

 

I see now, individual soul is (9) antimaterial principle.

And paramatma is also antimaterial princeple (two birds).

 

Can you or someone explain, please, what happens once we end samsara.

We enter anti-material world of God.

 

-what is it like?

-who is there?

-what is the nature of that world?

-what are "we/they" doing there?

 

If i understand correct- there is Krishna (with 100% of 64 qualities)- who are the oters?

 

-can we (as a soul) still progress furter once we reach anti-material world?

[theist 1]

 

Sorry..thank you, sometimes i just need to ask more, to know for sure if i understand correct.

___________________________

 

I see now, individual soul is (9) antimaterial principle.

And paramatma is also antimaterial princeple (two birds).

 

Can you or someone explain, please, what happens once we end samsara.

We enter anti-material world of God.

 

-what is it like?

-who is there?

-what is the nature of that world?

-what are "we/they" doing there?

 

If i understand correct- there is Krishna (with 100% of 64 qualities)- who are the oters?

 

-can we (as a soul) still progress furter once we reach anti-material world?

 

No problem. It is very deep subject matter and we need to go through it as thoughtfully as possible. I find your questions both intelligent and refreshing.

 

-what is it like?

I can only repeat what I have heard. The spiritual world is characterized as being eternal, full of knowledge and umlimitedly blissful. The spiritual world is called Vaikuntha because there is no material anxiety there like birth death old age and disease.

 

-who is there?

Krsna is there along with an innumerable amount of minute or jiva souls.

-what is the nature of that world?

See question 1

 

-what are "we/they" doing there?

Everyone there is engaged in personal loving relations all centered around Love for Krsna in various moods according to the desire of the devotee. Krsna reciprocates their love in kind. If you want God as your friend He will be your friend. If you want to dance with Krsna He will dance with you.

[Guest guest]

 

The summum bonum Krsna is one without a second. He Himself has expanded Himself in various parts, portions and particles as svayam-rupa, svayam-prakasa, tad-ekatma, prabhava, vaibhava, vilasa, avatara, avesa, and jivas, all provided with innumerable energies just suitable to the respective persons and personalities. Learned scholars in transcendental subjects have carefully analyzed the summum bonum Krsna to have sixty-four principal attributes. All the expansions or categories of the Lord possess only some percentages of these attributes. But Sri Krsna is the possessor of the attributes cent percent. And His personal expansions such as svayam-prakasa, tad-ekatma up to the categories of the avataras who are all visnu-tattva, possess up to ninety-three percent of these transcendental attributes. Lord Siva, who is neither avatara nor avesa nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes. But the jivas, or the individual living beings in different statuses of life, possess up to the limit of seventy-eight percent of the attributes. In the conditioned state of material existence, the living being possesses these attributes in very minute quantity, varying in terms of the pious life of the living being. The most perfect of living beings is Brahma, the supreme administrator of one universe. He possesses seventy-eight percent of the attributes in full. All other demigods have the same attributes in less quantity, whereas human beings possess the attributes in very minute quantity. The standard of perfection for a human being is to develop the attributes up to seventy-eight percent in full. The living being can never possess attributes like Siva, Visnu or Lord Krsna. A living being can become godly by developing the seventy-eight-percent transcendental attributes in fullness, but he can never become a God like Siva, Visnu or Krsna. He can become a Brahma in due course. The godly living beings who are all residents of the planets in the spiritual sky are eternal associates of God in different spiritual planets called Hari-dhama and Mahesa-dhama. The abode of Lord Krsna above all spiritual planets is called Krsnaloka or Goloka Vrndavana, and the perfected living being, by developing seventy-eight percent of the above attributes in fullness, can enter the planet of Krsnaloka after leaving the present material body.

 

 

What is when we have 78%? What do we do then?

Our final goal qould be Brahma?

[Guest guest]

Is this "the picture of who is there"?

 

(i can't post a link, check the picture please and maybe post it here)

[Guruvani 0]

 

Is this "the picture of who is there"?

 

(i can't post a link, check the picture please and maybe post it here)

[theist 1]

 

What is when we have 78%? What do we do then?

Our final goal qould be Brahma?

 

Final goal is to love and serve Krsna. Brahma is not in the picture here.

[Avinash 0]

It seems from the picture that Aniruddha, Vasudeva, Sankarsana, and Pradymna are expansions of Balaram. Is that correct?

 

Whose expansion is Narayana? There are two arrows which point towards Narayana.

 

Is Maha Sankarsana an expansion of Sankarsana or Narayana? One arrow indicates Narayana and another indicates Sankarsana.

 

Whose expansion is each Purusa avatara? The arrow starts from the rectangle which contains Aniruddha, Vasudeva, Sankarsana, and Pradymna. Does it mean that these four together expand into purusa avataras?

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry..thank you, sometimes i just need to ask more, to know for sure if i understand correct.

___________________________

 

I see now, individual soul is (9) antimaterial principle.

And paramatma is also antimaterial princeple (two birds).

 

Can you or someone explain, please, what happens once we end samsara.

We enter anti-material world of God.

 

-what is it like?

-who is there?

-what is the nature of that world?

-what are "we/they" doing there?

 

If i understand correct- there is Krishna (with 100% of 64 qualities)- who are the oters?

 

-can we (as a soul) still progress furter once we reach anti-material world?

 

"-what is it like?"

 

there are quasi-unlimited spiritual abodes. Each one has it's own flavor. they are all the highest but there is even higher. there are loads of pasttimes about the spiritual world by people who can see it. i believe it is about spiritual pasttimes in Maya.

 

"-who is there? "

 

Personalities. Eternal Gods and Goddeses and us when we are there.

 

"-what is the nature of that world?"

 

absolute perfection in the highest.

 

"-what are "we/they" doing there?"

 

enjoying existence to the infinity.

 

"If i understand correct- there is Krishna (with 100% of 64 qualities)- who are the oters?"

 

there are others but no one is manifested to the max except him.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

i thought your ontology chart was a bit off. however, it is nice from a bhakti viewpoint. however, i am not going to argue against it.

[Guest guest]

 

i thought your ontology chart was a bit off. however, it is nice from a bhakti viewpoint. however, i am not going to argue against it.

Why not, what do you think about that?

____________________

 

however, i found a nice page describing "our topic"- it's ww.veda.harekrsna.cz/planetarium/index.htm

 

I'll read it, then come back with questions:)

[Guruvani 0]

 

i thought your ontology chart was a bit off. however, it is nice from a bhakti viewpoint. however, i am not going to argue against it.

 

whose chart?

 

Nobody on this forum made that chart.

 

it comes from another web site

 

http://harekrsna.com/philosophy/incarnations/hierarchy.gif

[Guest guest]

yes, let's go back..

 

It is said: there are 2 worlds- material & antimaterial (spiritual?)

 

some questions:

-was there a situation, where there was NO material world and everything was only in antimaterial world?

 

And if so--> what was the "situation/relations" like?