Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2007 1. What is the connection between soul and consciousness? 2. Who is the original teacher of reincarnation (transmigration) any what's his original explanation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2007 3. What kind of nature is soul- is it material, physical nature (made of atoms, with it's mass, dimensions etc)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 5, 2007 TRANSLATION 2.17 - Gita That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul. PURPORT This verse more clearly explains the real nature of the soul, which is spread all over the body. Anyone can understand what is spread all over the body: it is consciousness. Everyone is conscious of the pains and pleasures of the body in part or as a whole. This spreading of consciousness is limited within one's own body. The pains and pleasures of one body are unknown to another. Therefore, each and every body is the embodiment of an individual soul, and the symptom of the soul's presence is perceived as individual consciousness. This soul is described as one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair point in size. The Svetasvatara Upanishad (5.9) confirms this: balagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca bhago jivah sa vijneyah sa canantyaya kalpate *** "When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul." Similarly the same version is stated: kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah sadrisatmakah jivah sukshma-svarupo 'yam sankhyatito hi cit-kanah [Cc. Madhya 19.140] "There are innumerable particles of spiritual atoms, which are measured as one ten-thousandth of the upper portion of the hair." Therefore, the individual particle of spirit soul is a spiritual atom smaller than the material atoms, and such atoms are innumerable. This very small spiritual spark is the basic principle of the material body, and the influence of such a spiritual spark is spread all over the body as the influence of the active principle of some medicine spreads throughout the body. This current of the spirit soul is felt all over the body as consciousness, and that is the proof of the presence of the soul. Any layman can understand that the material body minus consciousness is a dead body, and this consciousness cannot be revived in the body by any means of material administration. Therefore, consciousness is not due to any amount of material combination, but to the spirit soul. In the Mundaka Upanishad (3.1.9) the measurement of the atomic spirit soul is further explained: esho 'nur atma cetasa veditavyo yasmin pranah pancadha samvivesa pranais cittam sarvam otam prajanam yasmin visuddhe vibhavaty esha atma "The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." The hatha-yoga system is meant for controlling the five kinds of air encircling the pure soul by different kinds of sitting postures—not for any material profit, but for liberation of the minute soul from the entanglement of the material atmosphere. So the constitution of the atomic soul is admitted in all Vedic literatures, and it is also actually felt in the practical experience of any sane man. Only the insane man can think of this atomic soul as all-pervading vishnu-tattva. The influence of the atomic soul can be spread all over a particular body. According to the Mundaka Upanishad, this atomic soul is situated in the heart of every living entity, and because the measurement of the atomic soul is beyond the power of appreciation of the material scientists, some of them assert foolishly that there is no soul. The individual atomic soul is definitely there in the heart along with the Supersoul, and thus all the energies of bodily movement are emanating from this part of the body. The corpuscles which carry the oxygen from the lungs gather energy from the soul. When the soul passes away from this position, the activity of the blood, generating fusion, ceases. Medical science accepts the importance of the red corpuscles, but it cannot ascertain that the source of the energy is the soul. Medical science, however, does admit that the heart is the seat of all energies of the body. Such atomic particles of the spirit whole are compared to the sunshine molecules. In the sunshine there are innumerable radiant molecules. Similarly, the fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord are atomic sparks of the rays of the Supreme Lord, called by the name prabha, or superior energy. So whether one follows Vedic knowledge or modern science, one cannot deny the existence of the spirit soul in the body, and the science of the soul is explicitly described in the Bhagavad-gita by the Personality of Godhead Himself. *** This is not meant as an exact measurement of the soul IMO but merely to give us the idea that the individual soul is more minute and finer than the smallest of material particles. Now science speaks of sub-atomin particles like quarks. Someone may then ask, "Accepting the soul as smaller than atoms is it also smaller than quarks?" The answer is the individual soul is smaller than the smallest material particle. TRANSLATION 2.18 - Gita The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2007 Is the soul that is described here atman? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2007 Is the soul that is described here atman? Atman can refer to soul or any or the sum of the areas covering up the soul. my belief: The soul has dimensions! It is made up of a certain amt. of atoms too! It has a spiritual form prescribed to it. It has wonderful characteristic traits about it, infinitely less than God of course. It feels like infinite bliss, knowledge, and existence in that order. It is different from matter, it is spirit! This subject is not even 1% explained in modern public books and it is the most interesting b/c it is about us! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2007 This subject is not even 1% explained in modern public books and it is the most interesting b/c it is about us! Who is considered "the living authority" in this subject today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 6, 2007 Atman can refer to soul or any or the sum of the areas covering up the soul. my belief: The soul has dimensions! It is made up of a certain amt. of atoms too! It has a spiritual form prescribed to it. It has wonderful characteristic traits about it, infinitely less than God of course. It feels like infinite bliss, knowledge, and existence in that order. It is different from matter, it is spirit! This subject is not even 1% explained in modern public books and it is the most interesting b/c it is about us! Sorry, atoms are material energy. The soul or jivatma is a spiritual atom composed eternity knowledge and bliss. It is directly an individual living being or person vs. material atoms which in themselves are not directly conscious. You are the soul and I am also a soul. It is explained nicely in the Gita verse above and especially Prabhupada's purport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 6, 2007 Who is considered "the living authority" in this subject today? One who knows themself as the self is the perfect authority. Far superior to knowing about the self in some intellectual way. For me the living authority on this subject is Srila Prabhupada living as his teaching as in the purport quoted above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 .. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. ..[/quest] So this is, who we really are? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 6, 2007 We are the soul that is floating. The soul is not something we possess. The soul is who we are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 But when some part of body is amputated (cut off)- is there also one part off us (our soul) cut off- or is just that the soul that is situated in heart that reduces it's "floating area"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 second question: - Is this the part the reincarnate (transmigrate)? Is this part eternal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 6, 2007 But when some part of body is amputated (cut off)- is there also one part off us (our soul) cut off- or is just that the soul that is situated in heart that reduces it's "floating area"? I think you know this. The soul is never cut by any weapon. Prabhupada taught that even in a heart transplant the soul does not stay in the heart that is transplanted nor does it leave the body of the the one receiving the translplant. The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.- Gita 2.23 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 The individual atomic soul is definitely there in the heart along with the Supersoul, and thus all the energies of bodily movement are emanating from this part of the body.from: ww.asitis.com/2/17.html The material elements namely (1) earth, (2) water, (3) air, (4) fire, (5) sky, (6) mind, (7) intelligence and material (8) ego all these eight material principles are described as inferior energies whereas the living force or the anti-material principle is described as the superior energy. They are called energies because they are controlled by the supreme Living Being or the Personality of Godhead (Krishna).from: ww.prabhupadaconnect.com/BTG17_Part2.html There is also a popular definition that man is: body, mind and soul. Can you explain, please, how do these concepts match? (maybe some picture?) -body -mind -soul -individual atomic soul -Supersoul -material elements -anti-material principle -reincarnation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 from: ww.asitis.com/2/17.html from: ww.prabhupadaconnect.com/BTG17_Part2.html There is also a popular definition that man is: body, mind and soul. Can you explain, please, how do these concepts match? (maybe some picture?) -body -mind -soul -individual atomic soul -Supersoul -material elements -anti-material principle -reincarnation dear soul here is a popular website where almost all ur questions regarding soul is answered. it is ..... dlshq.org.....look for free e-books on soul and its journey by swami sivananda ! harekrishna! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 6, 2007 lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 8, 2007 f Can you explain, please, how do these concepts match? (maybe some picture?) -body -mind -soul -individual atomic soul -Supersoul -material elements -anti-material principle -reincarnation The soul, the self aware conscious spiritual spark or jiva emanates mind like a "fume". When projected wrongly into the material sphere it is contaminated by material desires and ideas on how to try to enjoy apart from Krsna. As the conditioned soul becomes more dense in his mind held desires a gross physical body develops around the mind and acts as a further covering of the individual soul. As the body is subject to eventual disolution the soul who still has gross desires needs another body to try and enjoy through once the present one wears out,ie death. That coupled with the results of his karma means he must take another birth into gross matter which requires another body to be formed around him, ie birth. That which is born is sure to die or dissolve and the process is repeated ad infinitum or until one becomes free from the desires that set this chain in motion. The material elements are said to be Earth Water Fire Air and Ether which mix in innumerable combinations to form all we can perceive through our physical senses. You, the soul, are the anti-material principle. Matter is endlessly changing and mutating. You are not changing and are eternally the same self. Matter is not conscious. It has no sense of I am. You the soul are conscious and have a sense of identity. "I am what I am and that's all that I am" -Popeye the sailorman. As a living conscious being you have the capacity to experience material happiness and distress or eternal unlimited spiritual bliss by loving Krsna. A rock has no such choice. Supersoul is the Supreme Lord in His capacity as the Soul of all souls and of the universe itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2007 dear soulhere is a popular website where almost all ur questions regarding soul is answered. it is ..... dlshq.org.....look for free e-books on soul and its journey by swami sivananda ! harekrishna! Thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2007 You, the soul, are the anti-material principle. Matter is endlessly changing and mutating. You are not changing and are eternally the same self. Matter is not conscious. It has no sense of I am. You the soul are conscious and have a sense of identity. "I am what I am and that's all that I am" -Popeye the sailorman. As a living conscious being you have the capacity to experience material happiness and distress or eternal unlimited spiritual bliss by loving Krsna. A rock has no such choice. Supersoul is the Supreme Lord in His capacity as the Soul of all souls and of the universe itself. Is this corect: - Rock is : matter and Paramātmā. - (Wo)man is: matter and individual soul and Paramātmā. (btw- how do you know that rock is not consciouss?) _________________________ When do we need to include individual soul (consciousness)? you said rocks don't have individual soul (or better said- they are not individual souls), what about flowers, animals, etc? What exactly is/makes a "living conscious being", with a individual soul (definition)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 13, 2007 Is this corect:- Rock is : matter and Paramātmā. - (Wo)man is: matter and individual soul and Paramātmā. (btw- how do you know that rock is not consciouss?) _________________________ When do we need to include individual soul (consciousness)? you said rocks don't have individual soul (or better said- they are not individual souls), what about flowers, animals, etc? What exactly is/makes a "living conscious being", with a individual soul (definition)? Yes rock means matter and Paramatma. By rock I mean inert matter that is not housing a jiva. Some rock may house an unfortunate soul but there is no sign of life in the vast majority of rocks. Flowers animals etc. show signs of lifeforce. Growth for one. Dwindling for another. This is seen further as a metabolism, anabolism and catabolism which is constant. A souless body has no metabolism and moves only to entropy. Yes each plant and each animal is an individual soul. Each cell of your body also contains an individual soul. The common idea that only humans have a soul is not correct. The soul can possess any type of body offered by nature for habitation. This goes for bacteria living off a decaying corpse on up the gods of heaven. All these souls are of equal quality irregardless of the diffent stations we may currently occupy in the material hierarchy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2007 Yes each plant and each animal is an individual soul. Each cell of your body also contains an individual soul. strange explanation. hm, one question- I am the soul, consciousness, eternal, Ok? Is this soul,consciousness (talking about myself) that is writing this post at the moment considered the same soul,consciousness that was writing last week by the name Guest111 ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2007 Yes each plant and each animal is an individual soul. Each cell of your body also contains an individual soul. There are many individual souls in my body..hm But which is the one that i'm aware of, which is my consciousness? One of them, combination of them..(?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 13, 2007 strange explanation. hm, one question- I am the soul, consciousness, eternal, Ok? Is this soul,consciousness (talking about myself) that is writing this post at the moment considered the same soul,consciousness that was writing last week by the name Guest111 ? Strange question. Of course you are the same person. Are you not the same personn now reading this who asked this question this morning? You are eternally you, that never changes. What changes may be is how you think of yourself while illusioned. Self realization means to come to and remain fixed in an understanding of who you really are, the soul. This idea of being a different person is one propagated by Buddhists and it is totally incorrect. But of course they do not except the existence of the soul or self to begin with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted June 13, 2007 There are many individual souls in my body..hmBut which is the one that i'm aware of, which is my consciousness? One of them, combination of them..(?) Q. How does the sun see itself? A. Directly by it's own sunlight. You are you. That sense of yourself, that awarness, is all you need. When you are in a room full of people you are not confused as to which one is you. You know yourself by your own innate sense of yourself. Same thing. Don't take this as so abstract like "which soul am I?" First thing is to take it directly...I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2007 What i would like to know is- precisely- what is that i am seeing around me (according to Vedas)? __________________________ Each cell of your body also contains an individual soul. This sentence i don't understand. First i thought there is One individual soul, that is "floating" all over the body- one for the whole body. But i don't see, how can each cell have an individual soul. That would mean that i am not the same person as last week, when i was writing on this forum- many cells in my body changed since then.. So, what is it that makes my consciousness- One individual souls or combination of bilions of bilions of individual souls? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
