vaisnava guru

[Beggar 0]

Stop Global Whining!

[cbrahma 0]

Nice attitude. I wasn't aware this site was global. What a tiny world.

 

 

Stop Global Whining!

[cbrahma 0]

When you have nothing left- Speculate on personal character and motive.

[cbrahma 0]

Tell it the victims of child abuse. I chose NOT to be a victim by making a realistic assessment of the diksa-enslavement mechanism.

 

 

All pre-religious systems such as modern psychology and Zen etc. as well as all true religious systems teach us not to blame anyone but ourselves for the predicament in which we find ourselves. As aspiring followers of Gaudiya Vaisnavism we accept that our predicament is that we are adverse to the service of Sri Krsna from time immemorial. In our practical lives it often manifests as a lack of interest in chanting Krsna Nama. So it is impossible to blame others for our lack of attraction to Krsna Nama, and in fact, impossible that others are responsible for our fallen condition. cbrahma in many posts whines and blames others for his own personal predicament. Of course cbrahma while certainly a classic self-deceiver seems also to have have hidden motives. Whether these motives are consciously known to him, only he and the Lord knows.

[Guruvani 0]

When I was young boy I used to go to church.

But, I always hated it because it was so boring and dry.

The church always smelled bad like moth balls mixed with flatulence.

 

Krishna consciousness was always beauty, nectar and sweetness from the very beginning.

What really brought me in to the Krishna consciousness path was the fact that when I picked-up a book I could sense a kind of nectarean sweetness and sometimes I sensed a lotus flower fragrance in the study of the books.

The idea of nectar and bliss was never a far-off theoretical ideal to me.

It was a very real thing that could be experienced in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

To this very day, these books of Srila Prabhupada are just nectar to me.

 

If I could not have actually sensed this nectar and this bliss from the very beginning, I would never have been able to distinguish Krishna consciousness from the other philosophies and religions that I was looking into back in the early 70's.

 

It's always amazing to me that after some period of concentrated study and chanting of these books that some Lotus flower fragrance starts to waft into my soul.

 

Even these books have different flavors.

 

The Nectar of Devotion has it's own flavor as does Sri Caitanya Caritamrita and Srimad Bhagavatam.

All these books have their own unique flavor and fragrance.

 

The nectar of devotion is like the most powerful of addictive substances.

 

Even if you only taste one molecule of that nectar one time in your life you will be addicated forever.

Even if you just smell one atom of the saffron mercy-particles of the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, you will never be able to forget that and your whole life will be spoiled with the thought of someday smelling that saffron mercy particle again.

 

Of course, it takes many lifetimes of penance to be able to get a molecule of that saffron mercy-particle to touch your heart, but when it does you will know it is real and beyond any sentimental faith and philosophical doctrine.

[Hari Bhakta dasa 0]

 

However, Im not so concerned with his feelings or beliefs, because they are tainted with the actual reason he has come to these forums. His motives are clear, he is acting on true missionary concerns, that which makes him bring about his point that entirely everyone who uses these pages are in need of his liberating services. He has come to save us from slavery.

 

He rants and raves about homo gurus and slavemaster gurus, but there is no such thing. There are pedophiles and criminals, but those who have any sense at all can recognize non-vaisnava character, and do not go near such people (animals).

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada told it to me, personally, that the devotee owns only three things, Krsna, Japa beads, and the Spiritual Master. In other words, cbrahma has it backwards, the diksa guru agrees to be the slave of his disciple, fulfilling every desire of the disciple. The archives of letters, teachings, books, tape ministries, all confirm that Srila Prabhupada is the servant of the servant, that he serves even his disciples. Perhaps this service attitude, when judged by mundane historians, can be viewed as a fault with Srila Prabhupada, that he provided service to some very unqualified persons, giving them everything, as he has confirmed in a stateme3nt made just 35 days before he ledft this world. In this statement of October 5, 1977, he tells his disciples that he has gioven them everything they have desired, but now they must protect the gift, or spoil it forever.

 

No, cbrashma, the resident servant and slave of the deprogrammers and christian superiority nazis who say all that Iraq needs is Jesus, is not speaking from actual knowledge of the wonders of diksa. Sri Narayana Maharaja has clearly stated fact, that the spiritual master owns nothing but Krsna, and his relationship with his disciples is rather unique in that he agrees to become their servants as well.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Can someone explain to me why such people as cbrashma are allowed to rant and rave about each and everything that we as Gaudiya Vaisnavas hold dear? Are such things really considered spiritual discussions? And is it really to anyone's best interest to be subjected to grave offenses to our acaryas?

 

I honestly thought that this was a Vaisnava forum.

[Beggar 0]

 

I came into this forum because I had a new interest in chanting. That interest of course has been completely preempted by the attitudes I've encountered by so-called vaisnavas on this site.

In the above quote you clearly blame others for your loss of interest in chanting.

 

When you have nothing left- Speculate on personal character and motive.

No speculation, Babba, your words are clear. If your faith is broken don't try to break the faith of others. "Every wave is a favorable wave" - Sridhar Maharhaja. "I am a faith maker not a faith breaker" - Sridhar Maharaja

[Hari Bhakta dasa 0]

 

In the above quote you clearly blame others for your loss of interest in chanting.

 

No speculation, Babba, your words are clear. If your faith is broken don't try to break the faith of others. "Every wave is a favorable wave" - Sridhar Maharhaja. "I am a faith maker not a faith breaker" - Sridhar Maharaja

 

this person had no faith to break in the first place.

[cbrahma 0]

There is a French saying 'si beau mais si faux' which translates badly into

'so beautiful and so false'

The most beautiful animals are often the most dangerous. I need as much a grounding in Truth as in Beauty.

 

 

When I was young boy I used to go to church.

But, I always hated it because it was so boring and dry.

The church always smelled bad like moth balls mixed with flatulence.

 

Krishna consciousness was always beauty, nectar and sweetness from the very beginning.

What really brought me in to the Krishna consciousness path was the fact that when I picked-up a book I could sense a kind of nectarean sweetness and sometimes I sensed a lotus flower fragrance in the study of the books.

The idea of nectar and bliss was never a far-off theoretical ideal to me.

It was a very real thing that could be experienced in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

To this very day, these books of Srila Prabhupada are just nectar to me.

 

If I could not have actually sensed this nectar and this bliss from the very beginning, I would never have been able to distinguish Krishna consciousness from the other philosophies and religions that I was looking into back in the early 70's.

 

It's always amazing to me that after some period of concentrated study and chanting of these books that some Lotus flower fragrance starts to waft into my soul.

 

Even these books have different flavors.

 

The Nectar of Devotion has it's own flavor as does Sri Caitanya Caritamrita and Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

All these books have their own unique flavor and fragrance.

 

The nectar of devotion is like the most powerful of addictive substances.

 

Even if you only taste one molecule of that nectar one time in your life you will be addicated forever.

Even if you just smell one atom of the saffron mercy-particles of the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, you will never be able to forget that and your whole life will be spoiled with the thought of someday smelling that saffron mercy particle again.

 

Of course, it takes many lifetimes of penance to be able to get a molecule of that saffron mercy-particle to touch your heart, but when it does you will know it is real and beyond any sentimental faith and philosophical doctrine.

[cbrahma 0]

ah a Sridar disciple. That explains it

[cbrahma 0]

 

In the above quote you clearly blame others for your loss of interest in chanting.

 

 

'Blame' is an ambiguous word when it means 'giving a reason for'. There is no blame in the moral sense, because I haven't taken up anything. This is too much coming from a religious doctrine that requires surrender to a guru, a complete acquiesence to another human being. Faith is impossible to break. If you just want one side of a discussion to bolster 'your faith', it can't be very strong.

[Guruvani 0]

 

There is a French saying 'si beau mais si faux' which translates badly into

'so beautiful and so false'

The most beautiful animals are often the most dangerous. I need as much a grounding in Truth as in Beauty.

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.20.25

 

sa uttamaśloka mahan-mukha-cyuto

bhavat-padāmbhoja-sudhā kaṇānilaḥ

smṛtiḿ punar vismṛta-tattva-vartmanāḿ

kuyogināḿ no vitaraty alaḿ varaiḥ

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

saḥ — that; uttama-śloka — O Lord, who are praised by selected verses; mahat — of great devotees; mukha-cyutaḥ — delivered from the mouths; bhavat — Your; pada-ambhoja — from the lotus feet; sudhā — of nectar; kaṇa — particles; anilaḥ — soothing breeze; smṛtim — remembrance; punaḥ — again; vismṛta — forgotten; tattva — to the truth; vartmanām — of persons whose path; ku-yoginām — of persons not in the line of devotional service; naḥ — of us; vitarati — restores; alam — unnecessary; varaiḥ — other benedictions.

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

My dear Lord, You are glorified by the selected verses uttered by great personalities. Such glorification of Your lotus feet is just like saffron particles. When the transcendental vibration from the mouths of great devotees carries the aroma of the saffron dust of Your lotus feet, the forgetful living entity gradually remembers his eternal relationship with You. Devotees thus gradually come to the right conclusion about the value of life. My dear Lord, I therefore do not need any other benediction but the opportunity to hear from the mouth of Your pure devotee.

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

It is explained in the previous verse that one has to hear glorification of the Lord from the mouth of a pure devotee. This is further explained here. The transcendental vibration from the mouth of a pure devotee is so powerful that it can revive the living entity's memory of his eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In our material existence, under the influence of illusory māyā, we have almost forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord, exactly like a man sleeping very deeply who forgets his duties. In the Vedas it is said that every one of us is sleeping under the influence of māyā. We must get up from this slumber and engage in the right service, for thus we can properly utilize the facility of this human form of life. As expressed in a song by Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda, Lord Caitanya says, jīva jāga, jīva jāga. The Lord asks every sleeping living entity to get up and engage in devotional service so that his mission in this human form of life may be fulfilled. This awakening voice comes through the mouth of a pure devotee.

A pure devotee always engages in the service of the Lord, taking shelter of His lotus feet, and therefore he has a direct connection with the saffron mercy-particles that are strewn over the lotus feet of the Lord. Although when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the Lord. As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee, he immediately remembers his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until that moment he had forgotten everything.

For a conditioned soul, therefore, it is very important to hear from the mouth of a pure devotee, who is fully surrendered to the lotus feet of the Lord without any material desire, speculative knowledge or contamination of the modes of material nature. Every one of us is kuyogī because we have engaged in the service of this material world, forgetting our eternal relationship with the Lord as His eternal loving servants. It is our duty to rise from the kuyoga platform to become suyogīs, perfect mystics. The process of hearing from a pure devotee is recommended in all Vedic scriptures, especially by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. One may stay in his position of life — it does not matter what it is — but if one hears from the mouth of a pure devotee, he gradually comes to the understanding of his relationship with the Lord and thus engages in His loving service, and his life becomes completely perfect. Therefore, this process of hearing from the mouth of a pure devotee is very important for making progress in the line of spiritual understanding.

 

[Hari Bhakta dasa 0]

 

In the above quote you clearly blame others for your loss of interest in chanting.

 

No speculation, Babba, your words are clear. If your faith is broken don't try to break the faith of others. "Every wave is a favorable wave" - Sridhar Maharhaja. "I am a faith maker not a faith breaker" - Sridhar Maharaja

 

It is obvious from each post this person puts on this thread and all others that they had zero interest in chanting. They knew what would get other participants to pay attention, got the attention and now has gone for the throat.

 

responding with quotes and so on to this person only helps them to offend all the more.

 

i am still in wonder as to how this is person is being allowed to behave and offend so blantantly on a vaisnava forum.

[Beggar 0]

 

Tell it the victims of child abuse.

Tell it to the victims of the Holocost. Tell it to the victims of Stalin. Stop slinging meaningless phrases. Why don't just come out with it and blame God for all the apparent unjustified misery in this world? What the Hell does it have to do with diksa? Did the Jews in Germany and Europe take diksa from Hitler? Are you against all forms of hierarchy? I'm sick of your ignorant and thoughtless posts.

[cbrahma 0]

Child abuse is specific to the vaisnava institutions. It's hardly meaningless. I know victims of vaisnava abuse personally.

Blame-the-victim mentality is a maintstay of an abusive system.

 

 

Tell it to the victims of the Holocost. Tell it to the victims of Stalin. Stop slinging meaningless phrases. Why don't just come out with it and blame God for all the apparent unjustified misery in this world? What the Hell does it have to do with diksa? Did the Jews in Germany and Europe take diksa from Hitler? Are you against all forms of hierarchy? I'm sick of your ignorant and thoughtless posts.

[cbrahma 0]

You have no idea what I am doing now or before I posted but I understand your need to believe it.

 

 

It is obvious from each post this person puts on this thread and all others that they had zero interest in chanting. They knew what would get other participants to pay attention, got the attention and now has gone for the throat.

 

responding with quotes and so on to this person only helps them to offend all the more.

 

i am still in wonder as to how this is person is being allowed to behave and offend so blantantly on a vaisnava forum.

[cbrahma 0]

In spite of the uninspiring nature of the dialogue I've had with some of the bloggers here, it has been very instructive.

 

I've learned the g. vaisnava apologetics and I didn't know one existed.

 

There are four principles I've been able to disginguish that justify the vaisnava diska dominance.

 

1.No g. Vaisnava community is responsible for its behavior towards any inquiring/aspiring individual because we are all solely responsible for what happens to us.

 

2. Everbody is enslaved by something. (there is an interesting incompatiblity between this principle and no 1)

 

3. Loss of ego (surrender) to the all-knowing guru is the prime requisite for entry into the sacred wisdom.

 

4. Offense (whether true or not) is an insurmountable obstacle to 'advancement' which is defined as increasing proximity to the loving Godhead.

 

Thank you for the education.

Acceptance of these principles certainly makes the belief system of the diksa-guru dominance mechanism impregnable.

[Hari Bhakta dasa 0]

 

You have no idea what I am doing now or before I posted but I understand your need to believe it.

 

It must be very difficult being so perfect and intelligent around us morons.

[cbrahma 0]

It's surprising how quickly such spiritually evolved entities resort to personal flaming.

 

 

It must be very difficult being so perfect and intelligent around us morons.

[Hari Bhakta dasa 0]

 

It's surprising how quickly such spiritually evolved entities resort to personal flaming.

 

rotfl

 

anything else just aids you in perpetrating more offenses. I choose not to go that route.

 

admin, are you on vacation or something?

[theist 1]

 

In spite of the ininspiring nature of the dialogue I've had with some of the bloggers here, it has been very instructive.

 

I've learned the g. vaisnava apologetics and I didn't know one existed.

 

There are four principles I've been able to disginguish that justify the vaisnava diska dominance.

 

1.No g. Vaisnava community is responsible for its behavior towards any inquiring/aspiring individual because we are all solely responsible for what happens to us.

 

2. Everbody is enslaved by something. (there is an interesting incompatiblity between this principle and no 1)

 

3. Loss of ego (surrender) to the all-knowing guru is the prime requisite for entry into the sacred wisdom.

 

4. Offense (whether true or not) is an insurmountable obstacle to 'advancement' which is defined as increasing proximity to the loving Godhead.

 

Thank you for the education.

Acceptance of these principles certainly makes the belief system of the diksa-guru dominance mechanism impregnable.

 

Doesn't seem you have learn very much. Go ask Pastor Bob down at the corner church if there is any difference between the self and the material body and watch him fumble for an answer. The knowledge in present day Christianity cannot satisfy an inquisitive mind even on the basics of transcendental knowledge.

[Guruvani 0]

What else can be expected from a "Christian" except blasphemy of Krishna and vilificiation of the Vaishnavas.

 

Anytime a Christian comes to discuss with devotees he has only one agenda; to put down Krishna and preach Christian supremecy to all the pagan idol woshippers.

 

Bigotry and prejudice is the religion of most "Christians".

 

Jesus did all the work.

All we have to do is just believe in him and accept him as our saviour.

 

Wouldn't it be great if salvation was really that easy?

[mahak 0]

Haribol. It is unfortunate to see so-called "believers" resort to denigrating philosophies in order to further their own belief in their cult. We see some false christians resort to this behavior, going on islamic and hindu websites for the specific reason to cause disturbance. I know for a fact that some pastors of psuedo christian sects encourage their congregation to engage in this negative preaching.

 

But Lord Jesus Christ is not connected to these people. He has prophesized "In the future, there will be those who baptize in my name, yet I will say to them, 'I know you not, for you have failed to do the Will of he who has sent me." Our disturbance here seems to claim that Jesus doesnt demand service, but Jesus Christ rejects all who fail to SUBMIT to His Father, whose Bhakti Yoga He has come to give to us all.

 

And, concerning real DIKSA, the impartation of reality to the sincere, Lord Jesus Christ hasw great teachings in this regard:

 

(Reprinted from Guru Tattwa Essays, 1991)

 

<CENTER>YOGA OF SRI GURUDEVA (Matt 10:25-30)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

Lord Jesus Christ Prayed, "I praise You, Abah (Father), Lord of heaven and earth, because You hide from the learned scholars while revealing Yourself to the poor and needy. You have turned everything over to the Son, and nobody knows the Son except the Father, nor does anybody know the Father except the Son and those with ears to hear from the Son and are pleasing to the Son. All you poor and needy, come to the Son and I will refresh you. Take My Yoke (Yoga) upon you and learn from Me, because I am meek and modest and you may confide in Me. My Yoke is comfortable and My load is light."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: This is a lesson of "gurudeva patita pavana". Guru's yoke is Yoga, His relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His desire is that the poor and needy share in the comfort of this relationship. The connection, yoke, yoga, linkage, is available to all, but only the vanquished can surrender. Those cursed with matter addiction (karmis), self-importance from academic success (jnanis), or mystic imitation of the Supreme Lord (yogis) do not attend the festivities of His calling, by their own foolish choices, thus Lord Jesus Christ is truely patita pavana, dearmost friend of those bereft of material fortune.

 

<CENTER>CHALLENGING THE AUTHORITY OF SRI GURUDEVA (Mark 11: 27-33)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

The scholars, elders and priests were questioning Lord Jesus Christ thus: "Who gives You the power to do these things?" He responded, "I will answer on the condition you answer whether the baptism of John is heaven-sent or of human origin?"

 

The church leaders conferred among themselves, deciding both possible answers threatened their positions. Heaven-sent meant they denied the Will of the Supreme, human origin meant that they were to be attacked by the people, so they diplomatically answered, "We cannot tell."

Lord Jesus Christ then said, "Then I won't tell you either."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: The lesson here is that authority of Gurudeva is never discussed among the faithless.

 

<CENTER>IMPARTIAL, UNIVERSAL LOVE OF SRI GURUDEVA (Matt 8: 5-13)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

As Lord Jesus Christ entered Capernaum, a Roman officer approached and requested His healing mercy. He agreed, and began following him, but the official said, "My Dear Lord, I have folks who are required to follow my orders, but You, Sir, are much beyond this realm. I do not deserve Your mercy, but, if You wish, say only the word and my son will be healed."

The Lord said to His followers, "I have not seen such trust in all of Judea. I predict that folks from East and West will dine with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with My Father, but for those who may think that the Spiritual Realm belongs to a segment of society will be left in darkness. Go, My friend, your son is well and awaiting your arrival."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: Sri Gurudeva comes to give Love of God to all without discrimination, he is never bound by sectarian ideas or imprisoned by the cultural bars of the ignorant.

 

<CENTER>EMPOWERMENT OF THE DISCIPLE (Matt 16: 15-19)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

One day, Lord Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "Who do the people say that I am?" Looking to Simon Peter, He asked, "Who do you say I am?" Simon responded, "You are the annointed one, the Son of the Living Lord."

In response, The Lord said, "You are to be congratulated, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father. You are the foundation of My mission that no one can overcome, and you possess the keys to both the eternal and temporal kingdoms. But you must not tell others that I am the annointed, for they must come to Me in the same way."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: Only by the grace of God, one gets Guru. This is actual guru-tattwa, no appointment, election or permission needed, this is the empowerment of the disciple by the Supreme Lord Himself to have the ears to hear from His representative, purchased by the sincerity of the disciple alone.

 

<CENTER>BY THE GRACE OF GOD......(John 5: 60-65)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

A certain teaching of Lord Jesus Christ caused some of the followers to question the content. Some grumbled that the teachings were offensive. The Lord knew who the grumblers were, and pointed out this fact: "This is why I told you. People cannot come to Me unless My Father has granted this."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: This clear description of the fact, "By the grace of God, one gets guru", indicates that the sincerity of the disciple is absolutely necessary in the equasion called guru-tattwa. After this event, many of those who were pretending to follow, attracted by populist notions, left Him for good. He then asked His apostles, "Do you want to leave Me too?" Their response was evidence that their attraction to guru was based on the prerequisite sincerity, that the Supreme Father Himself empowered not only His Son to be Guru, but also empowered the disciples to hear from Him.

 

<CENTER>THE WILL OF THE SUPREME FATHER (John 7: 6-18)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

The Judeans, always criticizing Lord Jesus Christ, were quite amazed at His preaching skills. Some said, "Here is a good man", while others scoffed, calling Him a cheater. They were thus fighting among themselves about His position. He then delivered a powerful lecture that stunned them all. They asked Him, "You are uneducated, how can You be so articulate?" The Lord responded, "What I am teaching does not originate from Me but with He Who sent Me. Anyone who does the Will of My Father knows well enough whether this teaching originates with God or whether I am speaking on My own authority. All who speak on their own authority are after praise for themselves. But for he who is only concerned with the praise of the One Who sent Him-He is truthful, there is nothing false about Him."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: This is a clear, truthful description of Sri Gurudeva. He gives what He has been given, intact. His mastery is proven by His service, thus disciplic succession is the true guru-tattwa.

 

<CENTER>THE GLORY FROM THE FATHER (John 8: 54)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

"If I were to glorify Myself, that glory of Mine would mean nothing. But, in fact, My Father glorifies Me, and all who do His Will will see this relationship."

 

mahaksadasa comment: Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words to the masses who would do Him harm, those too conditioned to doing their own wills to be eligible for spiritual life. Similarly, if we so choose to remain entangled by our own desires, Guru remains unavailable, the lack of sincerity prevents one from associating with Guru, and all "official" gurus such materialists may "honor", by show only, have no empowerment to deliver. A bonafide spiritual master and the bonafide disciple are never separated, any such separation exists only in the imagination of the pretenders.

The sadhu, Lord Jesus Christ, actually teaches us all, as does Srila Prabhupada and His bonafide disciples, that YOGA means relationship, devoid of any ideas of lonliness. There is no possibility of being alone if one sincerely attempts to do the Will of the Supreme Person, for Guru Tattwa immediately takes place upon sincere desire to please Him, Sri Gurudeva becomes available at once to such fortunate souls who have become alive by the sounds of Harinama.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani 0]

 

 

Thank you for the education.

 

 

As a "Christian" you certainly didn't come here to learn.

You came here to find faults and criticise the Vaishnava ways.

 

As a Christian, you came here thinking you already have all the answers and wanted to show all the flaws and defects in the Vaishnava path.

 

I don't think you converted anybody, so now you can back back to Church and smell the moth balls and flatulence in the pews as the congregation has trouble digesting the dead animal caracasses they gorged on before coming to church.

[cbrahma 0]

On the contrary I am quite fascinated by the unpersuabability of many of the bloggers here. But then once I am aware of their belief system it all makes perfect sense.

 

I didnt' read two cantos of the Srimad Bhagavatam not to learn anything.

I didn't read the entire Bhagavad Gita just to remain ignorant.

I didnt' attend literally hundreds of lectures just to be intractable.

I'm not trying to convert anybody as much as to decode the mystery of the

diksa submission. You can lay it at the door of Christianity if you wish. That is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what my faith is, it is logic and experience that dictate my conclusion.

 

 

As a "Christian" you certainly didn't come here to learn.

You came here to find faults and criticise the Vaishnava ways.

 

As a Christian, you came here thinking you already have all the answers and wanted to show all the flaws and defects in the Vaishnava path.

 

I don't think you converted anybody, so now you can back back to Church and smell the moth balls and flatulence in the pews as the congregation has trouble digesting the dead animal caracasses they gorged on before coming to church.