Rising the Kundalini Force

[Guest guest]

Yes the HK do imply certain cheap tricks as discrediting the other schools of knowledge and depicting them as inferior and slow and not as good etc.

 

The description posted by Guruvani form the article is extreme and certainely one particular limited part of Vammarg sadhna paddhati. It is certainely NOT the only path and definitely not the very necessary path.

An able Guru's guidance is very very important. And since Yoga is a purely practical field unlike HK, the definition of a Guru is seen from a different than HK perspective. Its practical. Its perfection. Guru can one who has attained perfection in a certain branch of knowledge, and only then he can guide one. Unlike the HK where a Guru can read books and stories and preach, not having perfection himself. In Yoga a Sadguru is one who has walked the path and achieved th aim / destination. So he knows all the problems that arise on the path while doing a certain practice and how to get solve them.

 

I've read various descriptions of pseudo Kundalini practitioners from the west who practiced and could awaken kundalini partly, but were unable to control it as they were not sufficiently ready for it physically and mentally. And didn't have proper and regular guidance and support from a Sadguru. A disciple who is advancing in Kundalini awakening and chakra activation, must do so under strict watch and guidance of an able guru who himself has successfully achieved full awakening and mastered control over it.

 

Shaktipaat from Guru, special mantras are must too.

But important is able Guru and able disciple, without whom the kundalini affair will result in what negative experiences the western and other sadhaks have had.

In fact why just kundalini, but everything else is dangerous in this world if u don't have proper knowledge on how to deal with it. Even walking on the road!! Even eating food!! Everything can be dangerous. We can injure ourselves while eating the wrong food or choking off food and liquids or walking on the wrong side of the road and get killed in an accident. So what now? Stop being on the road or eating food?

Yes of course, sadgurus are rare! But once you've found him, clench his feet and don't let go!

 

There are many tantrik siddhis that are attainable through vaammargi sadhna as well as dakshin margi sadhnas too that are pure and not of the nature as the ones described in the article posted by Guruvani.

 

Love!

 

YK

 

 

Yes, there are people who got phisically and mentally harmed by yogic practices. But how many people got phisically and mentally harmed in vaisnava groups, by abuse, by bogus gurus etc? And I am not referring ONLY to Iskcon, ladies and gentleman. So if someone totally wants to avoid dangers, one should avoid Krsna consciousness as well. The propaganda that "every other process is bad except for HK" is just a cheap trick to recruit people who work and donate.

[Guest guest]

DEAR SOULS

Truth is that 'GOD EXISTS' and NOTHING is important other than achieving him.Do not dwell in false dogma and doctrains. his divine name is the one which liberates us from this cycle of life and deaths.Along the path

u'll also find lot of distractions like siddhi's(powers) if one is interested in enjoying these powers will fall down evetually(to life and deaths)and have to work out again from the scratch.

just remember the lovely name of god all the time.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA

KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE

HARE RAMA HARE RAMA

RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

!!

[aecoss 0]

Guruvani Is ABSOLUTELY right...However, do not forget that Hinduism offers a million paths to a million travellers....so If you search in earnest so you shall find. What guruvani described is the tantric method of Kundalini acension. There are threee forms...Tantra, Yantra and Mantra. Each method is suited to a specific individual, and to a major extent, this depends on an individual's stage of spiritual progression in his karmic cycle. Hence, he is right, and it is A way, but not THE way. For people with high levels of karmic advancement, and also for the uninitiated (without a guru) the mantra method coupled with pranayaam is the BEST. Safest for the beginner, and most fast and effective for the advanced person. The core is Kriya Yoga, with breathing patterns and steadiness of thought. The release of Kundalini is often a traumatic experience, and may be breifly painfull as it purges all the negative energies from our body. However, if done with dedication, and with the right MOTIVE, it is an enlivening experience. If some people were hurt and damaged by the intense release of energy, it could have been because they did not eliminate all the major spiritual detractants (diet, sex, alcohol etc) For an insight of the Kriya method of kundalini ascension, read Paramhanse Yogananda's autobiograpy - Biography of a Yogi. However, key parts of the information are HIDDEN, so you must look for the knowledge.

 

Peace

 

Aryavansh Shukla

[Guest guest]

These are the words of a person who has probably not even come close to obtaining any siddhi in his life and hardly knows what goes into achieving this. How much toiling goes into it.

 

I'm saying this, because you DON"T ahve to start anything from scratch if you have a siddhi. Siddhi means perfection in a certain realm or branch of knowledge. And there is no harm or nothing absolutely wrong in having or achievning any siddhi. What you are saying is to deviate from teh path after having achieved a certain Siddhi and then falling down. There is absolutely nothing wrong in working towards having a siddhi.

The Hare Krishnas do not work towards achieving any Siddhi. Nor do they have any know-how on how to. Neverthless, the first ten Gurus initiated and established Srila Prabhupada simply "fell". What's the reason? They had no siddhi? To achieve a siddhi one has to be very disciplined in his sadhna, must have very balanced mind and once he attains it, should know how to keep his powers, otherwise he can loose it and deviate his spiritual path.

What you are saying is simply reflection of the generalizing of all other paths and phylosophies by teh HKs, which is not correct.

Of course the divine name delivers one from the cycle of birth and death, IF you attain siddhi of this divine name too. This is just another spiritual path. To attain a siddhi, also one has to chant a divine name and or mantras, beej mantras in highly scientific way. Also 'chanting' only more scientific that should involve "proper" pranayam and knowledge of proper yoga. An example can be found in Bhagwad Gita where Lord Krishna explains to Arjuna how a yogi / sadhak or person seeking / achieving him / one's higher self / and parmatma, should "chant" his name and meditate on him. I don't really remember him saying anything like go and distribute books.. and you will be enlightened..

 

Its true that a sadhak should not become attach to his siddhi and or start displaying them or revealing them or get false ego because of it, but instead keep stead fast on his aim to achieve the highest. But, have you even achieved one siddhi, is the question. If we are not even able to achieve the level of obtaining one siddhi, how can we keep pon generalizing siddhis and propagating hypothetical notions about them?

Regards,

Love,

YK.

 

 

DEAR SOULS

Truth is that 'GOD EXISTS' and NOTHING is important other than achieving him.Do not dwell in false dogma and doctrains. his divine name is the one which liberates us from this cycle of life and deaths.Along the path

u'll also find lot of distractions like siddhi's(powers) if one is interested in enjoying these powers will fall down evetually(to life and deaths)and have to work out again from the scratch.

just remember the lovely name of god all the time.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA

KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE

HARE RAMA HARE RAMA

RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

!!

[Guest guest]

 

These are the words of a person who has probably not even come close to obtaining any siddhi in his life and hardly knows what goes into achieving this. How much toiling goes into it.

 

I'm saying this, because you DON"T ahve to start anything from scratch if you have a siddhi. Siddhi means perfection in a certain realm or branch of knowledge. And there is no harm or nothing absolutely wrong in having or achievning any siddhi. What you are saying is to deviate from teh path after having achieved a certain Siddhi and then falling down. There is absolutely nothing wrong in working towards having a siddhi.

The Hare Krishnas do not work towards achieving any Siddhi. Nor do they have any know-how on how to. Neverthless, the first ten Gurus initiated and established Srila Prabhupada simply "fell". What's the reason? They had no siddhi? To achieve a siddhi one has to be very disciplined in his sadhna, must have very balanced mind and once he attains it, should know how to keep his powers, otherwise he can loose it and deviate his spiritual path.

What you are saying is simply reflection of the generalizing of all other paths and phylosophies by teh HKs, which is not correct.

Of course the divine name delivers one from the cycle of birth and death, IF you attain siddhi of this divine name too. This is just another spiritual path. To attain a siddhi, also one has to chant a divine name and or mantras, beej mantras in highly scientific way. Also 'chanting' only more scientific that should involve "proper" pranayam and knowledge of proper yoga. An example can be found in Bhagwad Gita where Lord Krishna explains to Arjuna how a yogi / sadhak or person seeking / achieving him / one's higher self / and parmatma, should "chant" his name and meditate on him. I don't really remember him saying anything like go and distribute books.. and you will be enlightened..

 

Its true that a sadhak should not become attach to his siddhi and or start displaying them or revealing them or get false ego because of it, but instead keep stead fast on his aim to achieve the highest. But, have you even achieved one siddhi, is the question. If we are not even able to achieve the level of obtaining one siddhi, how can we keep pon generalizing siddhis and propagating hypothetical notions about them?

Regards,

Love,

YK.

dear soul

highest goal of jivas is to achieve liberation from cycle of births and deaths and thus obtaining union with the almighty !

while u r on that path of reaching him he tests the sadakas by giving them siddhis. if one dwells in enjoying the powers they got ...they fo sure have a down fall spiritually.

a materialist dreams of material things works hard and achieve them and enjoy them. if a sadaka dreams of siddhis, works hard, achieves them and enjoys the powers i see no difference between a materialist and the siddha.

in gita(don't remember the chapter) lord says that even those who reached bhramha loka must come back to this earth plane in course of time to attain liberation.

my point is ,my freind, why go for the great ?when u have the greatest !

aim at the sky atleast u'll hit the roof!

hare krishna!

[gHari 0]

Lecture:

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/support/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=7

[Maheshyogi 0]

I have practiced Kundalini Yoga under the guidance of a competent guru for many years, and it has been a wonderful, loving, spiritual experience. I would recommend it to anyone.

[Guest guest]

Well true.

 

But can u reach even the higher, while dreaming and imagining about the highest is the question!

 

There is a certain way a person evloves spiritually or materialistically.

The Hare Krishnas do not have the know-how to siddhis or sadhnas. Period.

The mantra chanting is unsientific not to mention un-Vedic!!

They do not imply the knowledge of Prana, breathing or Kriya.

If you talk about Bhagwad Gita, then Krishna himself gives the kriya and the right method to concentrate. The HK completely ignore this. saying that oh its only for people who practice Dhyan yoga and that Bhakti the way they practice is the only way or the highest way. But even in simple bhakti and unsientific chanting, there are stages that one has to gradually pass.

 

When an ant starts climbing up the tree from the root, it has to go through the stem first. It cannot reach the highest branch right away. That's nature's law. nobody changes it. Neither does Krishna. Krishna will show himself up, when u are ready or have covered the necesary distance upto him.

People who work towards having siddhis is 'sakam sadhna'. There is nothing wrong in it. It is agreeable to Vedic culture. It is sadhna for a particular aim. And all sages in the Vedic times, INCLUDING Lord KRISHNA have done sakam sadhna!! Krishna instructs Arjuna on several occassions for it too!

If you look at the Vedic times, the sages undertook penances and sadhnas for attaining certain aims. Fulfillment and achievement of these aims is siddhi.

The point you conveyed however, is don't remain entangled in these siddhis, but move forward. Yes this is true. Siddhi is also a qualification. And if you have a Guru who has the power of bestowing upon you a siddhi also will guide you on its use and mvoe to a higher aim through it.

 

Love

 

YK

 

 

dear soul

highest goal of jivas is to achieve liberation from cycle of births and deaths and thus obtaining union with the almighty !

while u r on that path of reaching him he tests the sadakas by giving them siddhis. if one dwells in enjoying the powers they got ...they fo sure have a down fall spiritually.

a materialist dreams of material things works hard and achieve them and enjoy them. if a sadaka dreams of siddhis, works hard, achieves them and enjoys the powers i see no difference between a materialist and the siddha.

in gita(don't remember the chapter) lord says that even those who reached bhramha loka must come back to this earth plane in course of time to attain liberation.

my point is ,my freind, why go for the great ?when u have the greatest !

aim at the sky atleast u'll hit the roof!

hare krishna!

[gHari 0]

 

[...]

The mantra chanting is unsientific not to mention un-Vedic!!

 

This is simply not true for Lord Krishna, Himself, in the Bhagavad-gita explains that He is the OMkara, He is japa. The Upanishads directly proclaim the glory of the Hare Krsna mahamantra.

 

All these other yogic disciplines are presented for those who are too attached to the senses, that they may become freed from their poisonous grip, that the soul and Supersoul can be reached and true yoga can begin.

 

To think that bhakti-yoga does not include all these other yogas is a misunderstanding. To think that the calming effects of pranayama practice or the control facilities provided by kundalini science or the assistance granted by Paramatma through Astanga or Dhyana yoga are not included in bhakti-yoga is simply incorrect. Krsna teaches these sciences in the Bhagavad-gita, and He teaches them directly to the heart of the bhakti-yogi.

 

The only difference is in the motivation.

 

Ridiculing the Hare Krsna sankirtana movement of Sri Krsna Caitanya is suicide. Doing so defames yourself and your guru. Surely he is not so foolish and insincere. Maybe you are not interested in God, but simply power, glory for yourself, respect among the flock. But, the big fish in a little pond is always smaller than a little fish in the ocean. If it is the ego we seek to embellish then becoming a slave of the greatest master is the highest position available to the tiny soul.

 

Continue with the yogas but keep the goal in sight. Then the stay at each level will be reduced.

[Guest guest]

 

Well true.

 

But can u reach even the higher, while dreaming and imagining about the highest is the question!

 

There is a certain way a person evloves spiritually or materialistically.

The Hare Krishnas do not have the know-how to siddhis or sadhnas. Period.

The mantra chanting is unsientific not to mention un-Vedic!!

They do not imply the knowledge of Prana, breathing or Kriya.

If you talk about Bhagwad Gita, then Krishna himself gives the kriya and the right method to concentrate. The HK completely ignore this. saying that oh its only for people who practice Dhyan yoga and that Bhakti the way they practice is the only way or the highest way. But even in simple bhakti and unsientific chanting, there are stages that one has to gradually pass.

 

When an ant starts climbing up the tree from the root, it has to go through the stem first. It cannot reach the highest branch right away. That's nature's law. nobody changes it. Neither does Krishna. Krishna will show himself up, when u are ready or have covered the necesary distance upto him.

People who work towards having siddhis is 'sakam sadhna'. There is nothing wrong in it. It is agreeable to Vedic culture. It is sadhna for a particular aim. And all sages in the Vedic times, INCLUDING Lord KRISHNA have done sakam sadhna!! Krishna instructs Arjuna on several occassions for it too!

If you look at the Vedic times, the sages undertook penances and sadhnas for attaining certain aims. Fulfillment and achievement of these aims is siddhi.

The point you conveyed however, is don't remain entangled in these siddhis, but move forward. Yes this is true. Siddhi is also a qualification. And if you have a Guru who has the power of bestowing upon you a siddhi also will guide you on its use and mvoe to a higher aim through it.

 

Love

 

YK

well ,just as lord said that there are different paths to attain him,if one choose the path of siddha yoga ,as long as the aim is reaching the lord rather than halting in the midway,its good.

regarding the nama sankirthana......there was an episode in which lord rama had to fight with his faithful devotee hanuman,rama says 'i don't fight with those who are weaponless'....then hanuman says 'rama...how can i be weaponless when i have the most powerful weapon which is ur name'

the fight begins and rama's powerful arrow couldn't pearce the name RAMA,

uttered by hanuman !

nama sankirthana is the safest, easiest and most powerful method to attain the lord.

hare krishna !

[Guest guest]

Dear Atmiye,

 

Do you really want to imply that what Hanuman did was the same nama sankirtana that the Gaudiyas do??? I realy doubt this!

Neverthless, Lord Hanuman is "Asht Siddhi Nav nidhi ke daata"!!

He is the giver of eight kinds of highest siddhis attainable and wealths!!

This is a fact! - a fact that is written by Goswami Tulasidas who had a direct darshan of Lord Hanuman who helped him attain darshan and meet Lord Ramachandra and Lakshmana on more than one occassions.

Are you comparing the might of Lord Hanuman who is the 11th avatar of lord Shiva to an unscientific almost haphazard chantic? Sorry to say this, but to the level of sadhaks in those days, this is what it is in Kaliyuga what we do. Its not really the same brother. There is a huge difference between Lord Hanuman's chanting and a GBCs (with my due humble apologies) chanting. I said unscientific, because if the understanding of breath and mantra shakti is not understood, it is not all that scientific. But since you hold on to the Mantra initiator or Shri Chaitanya, you get the benefit and can still rise above the birth and death cycle.

 

There is a short story, you may allow me to tell on this occassion (since the sampradaya loves story telling so much). Once an ardent sincere devotee turned to an accomplished Guru to get Ram naam. Or Raam mantra. the Guru said, he really hasn't got much of a method to flaunt. But upon insisting, he asked the new disciple to bring his 'charan paduka' (his shoes). The disciple kept asking how to chant the mantra? Guru asked him to put his (Guru's) shoes to his ears... and as soon as the disciple put the ordinary looking shoes to his ear... he hears the manrta ram ram ram ram ...

and hears it in his breath, consciousness, breath, heart beat.

The newbee disciple understood thats how he should 'chant' with so much intensity and, discipline, centered attention that it should permeate not only all his being, but even inanimate objects in contact with him.

 

This level of concentration and depth is possible to achieve through a combination of Dhyan, Kriya and Raj yoga indeed, as explains Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Gita. He clearly explains the importance of Pranayama, asana and proper breathing. THIS IS the technique he gives to Arjuna. And tells that a sadhak should meditate upon the Lord in his Anahat chakra.

This is one of the methods of course.

 

If one prefers to simple hearted chanting without paying attention to concentration, meditation, developing higher faculties given to him by the almighty, then that is another way too,a s done by the Gaudiyas. \the only difference is if you assimilate some more disciplines from yoga, it becomes faster, proper and mroe powerful, as it was in the Vedic times.

Upon reading Srila Prabhupada's commentary on this verse of Lord Krishna in the Dhyana Yoga chapter of Bhagwad Gita "as it is", I found him ignoring the importance of yogic techinques altogether! Alas, I am compelled to believe that it is BG as it is, and not as it was given by Lord Krishna.

 

Bhakti is of course is the cement, but don't forget the bricks!

Bhakti of course is the fuel (in more grosser moderm terms), bt don't forget the vehicle and the driver. Yes Bhakti is important and exists in all forms, since Vedic times and time immemorial, so to say.

But to attract the all attracting through bhakti, one still has to come upto the level, which again is not so easily attainable.

 

Also, there is a false notion propagated by the gaudiyas about yogis and others, showing that they lack in bhakti and simply do rigid exercises. This is so not true. In any bonafide system of sadhna, the disciple must have first devotion to his Guru and the deity or "ishta devta". This is the first requirement. So Bhakti or 'chanting' is not really a monopoly of one sampradaya. Although many sampradayas try to preach their's is the only top one policy. Here the aim is to bring in more and more people under their own umbrella and not to give fullness, completeness to the seeker.

You may be surprised, but uptmost respect and bhakti is a prime consideration in tantra too!

 

I agree with your notion that its not good to stop in between. Indeed, paths are many. But if you look at history, vedic history to be precise, the highest sages and Gods and avatars have taken up the path of Yoga, meditation and sadhna and not simple 'chanting' as you understand it. By you I mean the Gaudiyas. Whether it is Rama, Krishna, Gorakhnath, Buddha, Atri, Kannad, Pulatsya, Vishwamitra, Vashishtha, Agastya and the list is endless.

And if you have an able Guru, who can give you sadhnas of that calibre and shaktipaat, it is still possible even in this age of quarell !!

 

To cut the comparison short, Bhakti is important. When a sincere hearted baby cries for his mother, she comes and consoles him, sometimes she gets irritated too; when a grown up child comes to his mother with the same sincerity, she gladly comes to his help again. But ur parents do want to see you able and self sufficient, though they never hessitate to help you.

So does the Lord see his children become able.

 

The level of bhakti, love and concentration generated when the Anahat chakra is activated is not comparable by any means to imaginable love experienced through limited senses. The "Krishna" or divine consciousness increases a thousand times and the horizons and spiritual awareness of ones higher self and relation to God in practical terms (not bookish theory alone) is expanded to levels unimagined by an ordinary man.

 

I wish you experience even a particle of it, through whatever process, sadhna method you follow. I pray for your spiritual progress, whoever you are soul brother.

 

Love

 

YK

 

 

 

well ,just as lord said that there are different paths to attain him,if one choose the path of siddha yoga ,as long as the aim is reaching the lord rather than halting in the midway,its good.

regarding the nama sankirthana......there was an episode in which lord rama had to fight with his faithful devotee hanuman,rama says 'i don't fight with those who are weaponless'....then hanuman says 'rama...how can i be weaponless when i have the most powerful weapon which is ur name'

the fight begins and rama's powerful arrow couldn't pearce the name RAMA,

uttered by hanuman !

nama sankirthana is the safest, easiest and most powerful method to attain the lord.

hare krishna !

[gHari 0]

Bhagavad-gita 10.25

<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>maharSINAM bhRgur ahaM

girAm asmy ekam akSaram

yajJAnAM japa-yajJo 'smi

sthAvarANAM himAlayaH

</CENTER>

mahA-RSINAm--among the great sages; bhRguH--BhRgu; aham--I am; girAm--of vibrations; asmi--I am; ekam akSaram--praNava; yajJAnAm--of sacrifices; japa-yajJaH--chanting; asmi--I am; sthAvarANAm--of immovable things; himAlayaH--the HimAlayan mountains.

<B></FONT>

Of the great sages I am BhRgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental oM. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa], and of immovable things I am the HimAlayas.</BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest guest]

Double preaching standards. If Lord Krishna says He is "Omkar" why don't you meditate on this OMkar then??? Where does Krishna says chant "Hare Krishna" mantra only? Can you show in Bhagwad Gita where Krishna says chant Hare Krishna mahamantra? He says I'm Omkar. I'm japa. Yes he is "japa" but the method was diferent than what you practice. And that is the difference in the level.

 

As far as yogic disciplines are concerned, no it is NOT exclusively for those who are too attached to the senses. This is another nonesense preached by the Gaudiyas!! Yoga trains the senses, body, mind and the spirit period. People chanting Hare Krishna can be as attached to the senses, simply because they don't have the time proven ageless formulas of yoga. Do you think our rishis and ancient sages were foolish who devised these methods and a 500 year old tradition can wipe out everything else that the Vedic sadhnas held? I don't think so dear.

 

Nobody's rediculing the sankirtana movement. As far as suicide is concerned then I'm not afraid and never was afraid of the fatwas and aparadha threats done by religious leaders of any kind. These people only have one agenda, keep their own movement higher than others. There is a lot of power struggle.

 

The problem here gHari is that you believe all yogas combine and assimilate in Bhakti, but all these higher yogas are given to a bhakta to start with. A bhakta who is devoted. A bhakta who is sincere, then he is opened to higher forms of yoga. BHakti can be compared to a thread that binds the beads. But unfortunately, the Gaudiya perspective is a comparative fight and positioning of everything - my God your God, my sampradaya your sampradaya, my philosophy, your philosophy. And try to achieve superiority through and by all means. Even if it takes rephrasing the scriptures and re coloring them in line with their own philosophy. And this creates conflicts everywhere. Its not complete and does not allow much room for other schools of thoughts. Shri Krishna did allow other schools of thoughts in his BG discourse to Arjuna. He didn't devote all chapters to Bhakti yoga as you can see. I aceept and take a combination of these - mantra, yantra tantra, bhakti, kriya yoga. Bhakti is not missing in any other school either. The forcible thrusting of own sampradaya on other by teh gaudiyas is a sure put off for others. Doesn't sound much different than the Catholics saying Jesus is the "ONLY" way, or the Islamists saying Allah is the ONLY way, or the Hare Krishnas saying "Hari naa is kevalam"!

Do you see the similarity? Yes this is the age of quarell and the HK are no exceptions to it. the essence of teachings are somewhere very near, but are not grasped int eh right spirit, because not enough roomis allowed for understanding. Fundamentalism is all encompassing, sadly.

Hope my message does not defend anyone. I respect the Gaudiyas and sankirtana movement. And even support it finnacially at times and with service. Just that I do not agree fully with the philosophy of putting down others saying my act is superior to everything else..

 

Love

Y k

 

 

 

This is simply not true for Lord Krishna, Himself, in the Bhagavad-gita explains that He is the OMkara, He is japa. The Upanishads directly proclaim the glory of the Hare Krsna mahamantra.

 

All these other yogic disciplines are presented for those who are too attached to the senses, that they may become freed from their poisonous grip, that the soul and Supersoul can be reached and true yoga can begin.

 

To think that bhakti-yoga does not include all these other yogas is a misunderstanding. To think that the calming effects of pranayama practice or the control facilities provided by kundalini science or the assistance granted by Paramatma through Astanga or Dhyana yoga are not included in bhakti-yoga is simply incorrect. Krsna teaches these sciences in the Bhagavad-gita, and He teaches them directly to the heart of the bhakti-yogi.

 

The only difference is in the motivation.

 

Ridiculing the Hare Krsna sankirtana movement of Sri Krsna Caitanya is suicide. Doing so defames yourself and your guru. Surely he is not so foolish and insincere. Maybe you are not interested in God, but simply power, glory for yourself, respect among the flock. But, the big fish in a little pond is always smaller than a little fish in the ocean. If it is the ego we seek to embellish then becoming a slave of the greatest master is the highest position available to the tiny soul.

 

Continue with the yogas but keep the goal in sight. Then the stay at each level will be reduced.

[Guest guest]

Would love to know about your Gurudev. Thanks.

 

YK.

 

 

I have practiced Kundalini Yoga under the guidance of a competent guru for many years, and it has been a wonderful, loving, spiritual experience. I would recommend it to anyone.

[gHari 0]

What do you speculate that 'japa' means, as it is used by Lord Krishna in BG 10.25?

 

What do you think about the various references to the Hare Krsna mantra in the Upanishads? Are they wrong too?

 

You do yourself no favors by pretending to be an expert, except and only to reveal why you play the game.

[Guest guest]

 

What do you speculate that 'japa' means, as it is used by Lord Krishna in BG 10.25?

Dear bhakta gHari,

If you are quoting the chapter on the glory of the absolute, verse 25, then in this verse Krishna says he is OM, - that HKs don't use as a mantra.

As far as 'speculating' is concerned, I leave that job unto the HKs. They are very proficient in doing this and they have been doing this well for a number of decades now. I do mantra sadhna. Not story telling and speculation. And mantra sadhna has many aspects, starting from understanding of various nyas kriyas, bandhas, mudras, pranayama, tantra and of mantra jagran and how to use the mantras. Of course all this is NOT devoid of bhakti - the connecting thread. I can't decribe mantra and its energy secrets in a message. But the method you use is not complete. The mantra sadhna taken up Vedic rishis, sages and sadhaks was absolutely different than what you practice. Many elements are not known and practiced by you. In its short principle it may mean the same. If Mantra means to establish contact with a deity and his energy or propitiate a deity on one hand then what you do is almost right, but the elements are not complete and the approach is not the same as it was in those days, hence the success rate and level is not complete and is on a diffirent plane. That's all i want to convey.

But hey, since you are programmed to believe, that whatever information other than HK philosophy comes your way has to be necessarily "speculation", then this means nothing to you.

You tried to quote Lord Krishna in BG 10.25. If you read more carefully and are trying to follow what Lord Krishna says here, you might just as well notice that Krishna is NOT mentioning Hare Krishna mantra here at all. It is only in the "commentary"! This proves that HK Mahamantra is not the only mahamantra around and not the only mantra capable of liberating a person from the cycles of rebirth and death. Krishna also says nothing about the sankirtana movement.

 

 

What do you think about the various references to the Hare Krsna mantra in the Upanishads? Are they wrong too?

The few Hare Krishna Mantra references that are available as in Kali Santarana Upanishad Upanishad, where the mantra starts as Hare Rama first are propounded well by the Gaudiyas. Sri Chaitanya changed the sequence to Hare Krishna first as the prime focus was on Lord Krishna. As per this Upanishad which is associated to Black (Krishna) Yajurveda, the mantra is given to Narada by Lord Brahma and is liberating in Kaliyuga.

But should I think the same about this mantra as the HKs think about other mantras given elsewhere in other Upanishads and Vedas - is the question.

Neverthless, Narada did not give the Hare Krishna mantra to bhakta Prahlada as falsely speculated by the HKs. The mantra he gave to prahlada was Om namo Bhagwate Vasudevaya.

Anyways, HK mahamantra is not the only mantra that liberates - this is what I think. Kabir - a pure devotee, got liberated by the Ram mantra.

Many liberated sages practiced Om Namah Shivaya.

 

You do yourself no favors by pretending to be an expert, except and only to reveal why you play the game.

You obviously have nothing to say to all that I refered in the previous two posts. So let's attack me instead.

"By pretending"? Why don't the HKs get rid of their false ego always believing that others are lower than them and they can be the only possible experts hanging around who never pretending? I don't have to play any game, I'm not seeking hoards of followers, I don't need to bring crowds under my umbrella, I don't have to collect large funds, nor do I have to put anyone down in speculative arguments. What could be the game? Just that I don't accept sole proprietorship and monopoly of HKs on Krishna, Vedas or liberation and sadhna.

[sumedh 0]

 

There is a certain way a person evloves spiritually or materialistically.

The Hare Krishnas do not have the know-how to siddhis or sadhnas. Period.

The mantra chanting is unsientific not to mention un-Vedic!!

They do not imply the knowledge of Prana, breathing or Kriya.

 

At this point, as a rational living being, it is your duty to quote the appropriate authorities to substantiate your point. There is not a single sruti statement in existence that talks about kundalini. On the other hand the vedas/upanishads talk about devotion etc. all over the place. If you are sincerely interested in those then i would be able to provide a long list of those quotes. As regards chanting being unscientific (as if these subjects fall in the realm of current material science), it is not clear what you mean; and that it is unvedic is a false statement because the mantras themselves come from sruti and smriti. All vedic vidhis involve chanting of the Vedic mantras. Or see Bhagavad Gita 9.13-14, 11.36 etc.

 

It will also be pertinent for you to quote the meaning of siddhis/sadhanas. The vedic siddhis all involve chanting of Vedic mantras. Indeed siddhi in vedas means siddhi of a vedic mantra.

 

 

If you talk about Bhagwad Gita, then Krishna himself gives the kriya and the right method to concentrate. The HK completely ignore this. saying that oh its only for people who practice Dhyan yoga and that Bhakti the way they practice is the only way or the highest way. But even in simple bhakti and unsientific chanting, there are stages that one has to gradually pass.

 

It is true that Lord Krishna talks about dhyana in one place and thus it is accepted. However, unless you choose to ignore the rest of Bhagavad Gita, any unbiased reading will show that it is actually a Bhaki shastra. In fact Lord Krishna defines a yogi as one who is devoted to Him in multiple places. In other words dhyana, karma etc. are different limbs of Bhakti. It would have been natural for me to provide quotations to show this but for the fact that so far you have only shown insincerity and so those will be a real waste.

[Guest guest]

NBS 74: One should not indulge in argumentative debate.

 

NBS 75: Such argumentation leads to excessive entanglements and is never decisive.

 

 

Was this topic about Kundalini or..... ?

[Guest guest]

 

Why don't the HKs get rid of their false ego always believing that others are lower than them and they can be the only possible experts hanging around who never pretending? I don't have to play any game, I'm not seeking hoards of followers, I don't need to bring crowds under my umbrella, I don't have to collect large funds, nor do I have to put anyone down in speculative arguments....

 

This is typical fundamentalism found in semitic religions like Christianity and Islam. At least they are candid about their elevated opinion of themselves. Th HKs cunningly avoid candor and resort to hide behind a cloak of false humility while all the time maintaining the same fundamentalism as that of semitic religions. My-system-is-better-than-yours is an unadvertised mantra of theirs.

 

They also seem to have some exclusive rights to criticism. They can dish it out, but cannot take it. They have absolutely no problems putting down others but if it happens the other way around, they bring out their equivalent of a Fatwa - a combination of Vaishnava Aparadha and suicide.

 

Another point where they stand out is the way they debate. They will start with logic and when cornered, they will turn around and say logic will not lead to Krishna; only love and Bhakti will. Hmmm.... what then was the purpose behind the logic that was displayed until a short while ago?

 

In the end, they are fooling no one, but themselves.

[Guest guest]

Ah.. Sumedh ji! The great flag bearer of the HK pantheon. Where nothing except the narrow HK line of philosophy ever can dare to exist. Maybe the Vedas were born 5000 years ago only? Or still better 500 years ago? It will be perfect for you! Won't it be? I was expecting you as you can't be left behind in showing off your so called knowledge of the scriptures. What happened to your pumpkin head picture, you used to use as your avatara beginning last year?

 

 

At this point, as a rational living being, it is your duty to quote the appropriate authorities to substantiate your point. There is not a single sruti statement in existence that talks about kundalini.

 

Your extreme dependence on the need for a quotation glamorously exhibits your inability in the practical world of yoga. If you had an able Guru, you would quote his experience with Krishna. If you had a Guru who has mastered any discipline of yoga, you would bring him forward. Quoting books is the work of useless people. People who don't have anything practical to offer. People who have no accomplishments in practical terms, but are ready to argue on scriptures alone!!! What diference does it make, what was written by some rishi a few thousand years ago? It will make a difference only if you have the practical aspect of sadhna to confirm it.

I can quote all the Vedas and Upanishads!! But does that really mean that I become enlightened? Hardly. I can talk about swimming techniques all day, but will that mean that I can swim? If you are rational, think. Unless you are sectarian brainwashed, then it doesn't matter.

You can go to Mathura and find hundreds of "pandas" who are ready to tell stories and "quote" in sanskrit. But have they experienced it themselves is what matters. A person who goes around retelling other's experience, doesn't get qualified himself in these experiences. Sadhna is experiencing. Sidhis are a matter of attaining and achieving these goals while going through these experiences.

 

 

On the other hand the vedas/upanishads talk about devotion etc. all over the place. If you are sincerely interested in those then i would be able to provide a long list of those quotes. As regards chanting being unscientific (as if these subjects fall in the realm of current material science), it is not clear what you mean; and that it is unvedic is a false statement because the mantras themselves come from sruti and smriti. All vedic vidhis involve chanting of the Vedic mantras. Or see Bhagavad Gita 9.13-14, 11.36 etc.

i don't really need YOUR quotes Sumedh ji!!

I have all the information I need. And if you need any practical guidance in sadhnas, I can be of some help. All that matters is your sadhna level. Quotes are not all and all. More so if the commentaries and purports differ from the original verses.

Scriptural quotes are generated through practical experiences of Rishis and not vice-versa. Again, chanting in its essence is not exactly what you believe it is. As far as Vedic Vidhis are concerned, then I would only mention one small point. All Vedic vidhis, sadhnas and Havans/yagyas are started with Ganapati Pujan - the writer of Vedas -considered Auspicious. The HKs never ever propetiate Ganesha or give him a seat in their so called "Vedic" rituals ever. What Vedic Vidhis are you talking about then when you can't follow the basic Vedic vidhis? Why don't you name it Gaudiya vidhis? Won't that be a more befitting name?

 

 

It will also be pertinent for you to quote the meaning of siddhis/sadhanas. The vedic siddhis all involve chanting of Vedic mantras. Indeed siddhi in vedas means siddhi of a vedic mantra.

lol! That's too generalizing Sumedh bhai! I'm amazed your sampradaya relies on zero practical / direct experience, but solely on quotations alone. Its like shooting a gun by placing it on someone's else's shoulder. So that you don't have to bear any responsibility.

What exactly is siddhi of a Vedic mantra Sumedh? Siddhi means perfection. If you have Ishta siddhi, then you must have pratyaksha darshan of your Ishta devta for a full siddhi. Direct perception. Direct experience.

Not book quotations Sumedh. I don't really remember Srila Prabhupada writing anywhere that Krishna decended in front of him and gave him Darshan! There are yogis who had direct darshans.

And since you advertise yourself as Vedic culture, Vedic everything, can you name any sadhak who has a certain siddhi of any mantra in your Sampradaya currently attained through proper Vedic vidhi? I would like to meet the exalted personality. Hello GBCs? Are you listening? Anyone out there?

At the time of death, ONLY direct realization and perception will decide your going to Krishnaloka/Vaikuntha or coming back to reading mroe quotations.

Dhyana is a process that helps in this. It is NOT devoid of devotion or Bhakti as many of you sadly promote.

 

It is true that Lord Krishna talks about dhyana in one place and thus it is accepted. However, unless you choose to ignore the rest of Bhagavad Gita, any unbiased reading will show that it is actually a Bhaki shastra. In fact Lord Krishna defines a yogi as one who is devoted to Him in multiple places. In other words dhyana, karma etc. are different limbs of Bhakti. It would have been natural for me to provide quotations to show this but for the fact that so far you have only shown insincerity and so those will be a real waste.

The problem here is that since you propagate one school of bhakti, your agenda is to find the elements of bhakti ONLY in any given scripture and see the rest of the scripture from this point of view alone. I'm not putting Bhakti in a competiontion with other methods. I use bhakti in conjunction with other methods to have a more fulfilling and complete method.

I'm not ignoring bhakti. The discussion here is not about whether bhakti should be there or not. The discussion is about the genuity of "Vedic sadhnas methids". Why didn't Prabhupada make unboased commentaries of SB and BG in the first place?

The whole sadhna depends on concentration and devotion.

Devotion without much viveka or concentration doesn't go far.

[Guest guest]

Most of what you wrote is basically true. They are too biased and judgemental. Would they have so many problems in every country if they were not?

 

 

This is typical fundamentalism found in semitic religions like Christianity and Islam. At least they are candid about their elevated opinion of themselves. Th HKs cunningly avoid candor and resort to hide behind a cloak of false humility while all the time maintaining the same fundamentalism as that of semitic religions. My-system-is-better-than-yours is an unadvertised mantra of theirs.

 

They also seem to have some exclusive rights to criticism. They can dish it out, but cannot take it. They have absolutely no problems putting down others but if it happens the other way around, they bring out their equivalent of a Fatwa - a combination of Vaishnava Aparadha and suicide.

 

Another point where they stand out is the way they debate. They will start with logic and when cornered, they will turn around and say logic will not lead to Krishna; only love and Bhakti will. Hmmm.... what then was the purpose behind the logic that was displayed until a short while ago?

 

In the end, they are fooling no one, but themselves.

[Guest guest]

Well said. So what we do now boss? go for book distribution instead of practicing kundalini or mantras?

 

 

NBS 74: One should not indulge in argumentative debate.

 

NBS 75: Such argumentation leads to excessive entanglements and is never decisive.

 

 

Was this topic about Kundalini or..... ?

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Atmiye,

 

Do you really want to imply that what Hanuman did was the same nama sankirtana that the Gaudiyas do??? I realy doubt this!

dear soul

u r talking about how the nama sankirthana should be done for ur kind information i am talking about the power of lords name itself.(any practice must always be done well)

 

Neverthless, Lord Hanuman is "Asht Siddhi Nav nidhi ke daata"!!

He is the giver of eight kinds of highest siddhis attainable and wealths!!

so its very obvious that u r interested in lord hanuman's siddi's rather than praying him.(bhakti & his name ofcourse)

 

 

 

There is a short story, you may allow me to tell on this occassion (since the sampradaya loves story telling so much). Once an ardent sincere devotee turned to an accomplished Guru to get Ram naam. Or Raam mantra. the Guru said, he really hasn't got much of a method to flaunt. But upon insisting, he asked the new disciple to bring his 'charan paduka' (his shoes). The disciple kept asking how to chant the mantra? Guru asked him to put his (Guru's) shoes to his ears... and as soon as the disciple put the ordinary looking shoes to his ear... he hears the manrta ram ram ram ram ...

and hears it in his breath, consciousness, breath, heart beat.

The newbee disciple understood thats how he should 'chant' with so much intensity and, discipline, centered attention that it should permeate not only all his being, but even inanimate objects in contact with him.

EXACTLY! my point. that is the power of lords name !

 

 

This level of concentration and depth is possible to achieve through a combination of Dhyan, Kriya and Raj yoga indeed, as explains Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Gita. He clearly explains the importance of Pranayama, asana and proper breathing. THIS IS the technique he gives to Arjuna. And tells that a sadhak should meditate upon the Lord in his Anahat chakra.

This is one of the methods of course.

in gita lord clearly says that any yoga done with out bhakti is incomplete !

 

If one prefers to simple hearted chanting without paying attention to concentration, meditation, developing higher faculties given to him by the almighty, then that is another way too,a s done by the Gaudiyas. \the only difference is if you assimilate some more disciplines from yoga, it becomes faster, proper and mroe powerful, as it was in the Vedic times.

 

[Guest guest]

 

dear soul

u r talking about how the nama sankirthana should be done for ur kind information i am talking about the power of lords name itself.(any practice must always be done well)

Which name of the Lord has this power according to you? The Lord has thousands of names and indeed thousands of forms.

It is the faith, concentration and sinceriety that you meditate with upon the name that is important dear.

 

 

so its very obvious that u r interested in Lord Hanuman's siddi's rather than praying him.(bhakti & his name ofcourse)

Again, you clearly don't belong to any sadhna discipline since you are making this discrimination. Only a fool can believe that he can actually have a siddhi from a deity without sadhna, that in itself combines higher elements of bhakti attachement to the deity along with other scientific vidhis adopted by the sages. I'm not trying to imply this to you personally though. What exactly is this "Praying according to you?" Do you fall down doing dandavats and beg for something? Express your love to the lord by offering prasadam and singing hymns?

The yogi does the same loving the lord seated in his anahat. Its an inward journey connecting to the inner cosmos where the Lord reveals himself in superconscious bliss that the sages have called samadhi.

Its clearly stated in SB. Unfortunately I didn't keep track of the verses numbers etc.

 

EXACTLY! my point. that is the power of lords name!

That is the power of chanting in the right manner the Lord's name. Otherwise you can go on chanting the same name for another 40 years!!

It is your complete faith in this name.

 

 

in gita lord clearly says that any yoga done with out bhakti is incomplete !

Right. So what's the deal here you are trying to impound? Bhakti is no monopoly of HKs. Nor is Krishna a monopoly of gaudiyas. Bhakti has always been an important element in all sadhna disciplines since ages.

But it is NOT exactly what you preach. Vedic bhakti approach differed from what the HKs follow or preach. Really it is. HKs system comes from that developed during the Islamic opressed India of the Bhakti Period that emergence of major bhakti saints like Kabir, Mirabai, Sri Chaitanya etc.

This clearly differs from the sadhna methods of Krishna, Rama, Vishwamitra, Pulatsya, Vashishtha, Gorakhnath.

 

If one prefers to simple hearted chanting without paying attention to concentration, meditation, developing higher faculties given to him by the almighty, then that is another way too,a s done by the Gaudiyas. \the only difference is if you assimilate some more disciplines from yoga, it becomes faster, proper and mroe powerful, as it was in the Vedic times.

 

[gHari 0]

This is sankirtana as presented by Gauranga, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu:

 

Glory to the Sri Krsna

sankirtana

, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This

sankirtana

movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

 

 

O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds of millions of names like Krsna and Govinda

. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them

 

 

One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

 

 

O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.

 

 

O son of Maharaja Nanda [Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

 

 

O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

 

 

O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

 

 

I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

These are the only eight shlokas left by Lord Gauranga, the inaugurator of the sankirtana movement. No matter what anyone will say, or in spite of everything you may have heard, this is the HKs.