Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2006 Regarding being in judgement: Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do to, as far as behavior-modifications go; that has no downside whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. , Manjit Chopra <manjitc wrote: > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > Gobinder chopra. manjitc > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > distinction between > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > that distinction is a > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > falling off it. Being > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > myself, I lack the > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > I'd like. > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > something very > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > behavior > > > modification sankalpas. > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > a little bit of > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > love. If you have > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > something less than > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > with your truthful > > > behavior." > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > apologies for > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa, > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Sponsored Link > > Get an Online or Campus degree > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > http://www.findtherightschool.com > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2006 You are so right, Dan. Jai Maa! Chris , "Dan" <dhkerrmail wrote: > > Regarding being in judgement: > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > to, as far as behavior-modifications go; that has no downside > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@> wrote: > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > distinction between > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > that distinction is a > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > falling off it. Being > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > myself, I lack the > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > I'd like. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > something very > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > behavior > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > a little bit of > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > love. If you have > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > something less than > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > with your truthful > > > > behavior." > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > apologies for > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa, > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > ______________ > > Sponsored Link > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > http://www.findtherightschool.com > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2006 I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... Jaye Kali Maa. Gyandesh. Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement You are so right, Dan. Jai Maa! Chris , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > Regarding being in judgement: > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > distinction between > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > that distinction is a > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > falling off it. Being > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > myself, I lack the > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > I'd like. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > something very > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > behavior > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > a little bit of > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > love. If you have > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > something less than > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > with your truthful > > > > behavior." > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > apologies for > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > ____________ __ > > Sponsored Link > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. http://new.mail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2006 I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh > wrote: I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... Jaye Kali Maa. Gyandesh. Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement You are so right, Dan. Jai Maa! Chris , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > Regarding being in judgement: > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > distinction between > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > that distinction is a > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > falling off it. Being > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > myself, I lack the > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > I'd like. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > something very > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > behavior > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > a little bit of > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > love. If you have > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > something less than > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > with your truthful > > > > behavior." > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > apologies for > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > ____________ __ > > Sponsored Link > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2006 In a message dated 11/10/2006 8:47:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, gyandesh writes: Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! Namaste gyandesh I agree with your conclusion. Gurudeva said that when you see a fault in others it is usually something in your own subconscious just waiting to manifest. Best to work on that and those that have manifested. Love Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 11, 2006 Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 11, 2006 Hi Debbie, I feel for your position, and I applaud your compassionate heart and self-inquiry. Most people actively seek power over others, but having power over others is a burden. Only a person with compassion can really see it, I think. We are just too blind, too limited, too egotistical to see the truth of others and of situations; we make mistakes that create harm. I have no specific advice for you, but to reiterate what Gauri related that Shree Maa said to her, "Be love." You have to do your duty, your dharma, but you can at least minimize the possibility of harm to others by taking yourself out of the equation as much as possible (your passions, likes and dislikes, etc.), by relying on God and "be(ing) love". Jai Maa! Chris , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2006 Debi, thank you for your very helpful post. I think what you are talking about is discrimination, a critical important tool in one's spititual kit; and I was so empowered by your quote from Proverbs that my Bible was taken from the shelf as my husband and I had a wonderful discussion about the two verses you mentioned. Divine Mother, through you and Proverbs, has given me direction regarding a difficult family situation. Love and blessings, Karen , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2006 I think it is important to realize that people are not their behaviors. We cannot see the soul-part of the person; but need to realize that it is there. Nevertheless; when people insist on certain behaviors that cause pain to others; we need to ask whether there is any benefit we can bring to that persons society. And if a person's actions are negatively affecting us; we need to use our values to decide, well, what are we doing there. Being at work adds an economic angle that makes decisions more difficult. You have my sympathy. Personally I like to leave people the hell that they're making; and let God take care of them. Just focus on your mantra. But this may not work for everybody. Luck! Dan , Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > > Namaste Debi: > > This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. > > Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. > > Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. > > Jai Ma! > Shankari Kali > > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsored Link > > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2006 Thanks Chris, Good advice! I'll do my best. I'm going to be thinking a lot about what you've said. Debi Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Hi Debbie, I feel for your position, and I applaud your compassionate heart and self-inquiry. Most people actively seek power over others, but having power over others is a burden. Only a person with compassion can really see it, I think. We are just too blind, too limited, too egotistical to see the truth of others and of situations; we make mistakes that create harm. I have no specific advice for you, but to reiterate what Gauri related that Shree Maa said to her, "Be love." You have to do your duty, your dharma, but you can at least minimize the possibility of harm to others by taking yourself out of the equation as much as possible (your passions, likes and dislikes, etc.), by relying on God and "be(ing) love". Jai Maa! Chris , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2006 Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2006 Hi Debi, Sorry to intrude into this discussion, which I was following with great interest. This is what helps me - When someone behaves negatively, I try to project myself into them, literally walk out of myself and stand in their shoes and see the world through their eyes, see me through their eyes. And, I can often feel the confusion, or anger, bitterness, or pain that they have brought in from other areas in their life and into this moment. It usually fills me with compassion, even love, and I am able to walk away from the interaction without bitterness. In an especially difficult situation, I may not be able to do so immediately, but as soon as I can bring myself to. Love Papia Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2006 What Dan wrote makes good sense. For me, I know that too often I want to "fix" people, which in a way is just messing around with their karma. I have no business doing that unless they ask for help or send some sort of cue that makes assistance reasonable. What Dan wrote sounds a bit harsh, but I know what he means. Regarding being in the world, especially the work world, MMY once said, "See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery." Love and blessings, Karen , "Dan" <dhkerrmail wrote: > Personally I like to leave people the hell that they're making; and > let God take care of them. Just focus on your mantra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2006 Debi, Sorry to intrude on this discussion, but it's not wrong to be a leader. Some people have leadership abilities, and it's their dharma to lead. As a leader you often have to make decisions, and these decisions require discernment. Nothing wrong with using your noggin. Blessings, Shankari kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Focus on my mantra! Thanks! That will be my goal in dealing with this. Debi Dan <dhkerrmail > wrote: I think it is important to realize that people are not their behaviors. We cannot see the soul-part of the person; but need to realize that it is there. Nevertheless; when people insist on certain behaviors that cause pain to others; we need to ask whether there is any benefit we can bring to that persons society. And if a person's actions are negatively affecting us; we need to use our values to decide, well, what are we doing there. Being at work adds an economic angle that makes decisions more difficult. You have my sympathy. Personally I like to leave people the hell that they're making; and let God take care of them. Just focus on your mantra. But this may not work for everybody. Luck! Dan , Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > > Namaste Debi: > > This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. > > Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. > > Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. > > Jai Ma! > Shankari Kali > > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsored Link > > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Shankari Kali, Please don't feel you are intruding. Everyone has helped with their ideas and I thank all of you. I do enjoy my position with the group, I work with and I want to serve them well and with a good heart. All the advise is very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts on this. Each day I check my email & feel I gain a little more information that helps me to deal with the situation in a better light. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Debi, Sorry to intrude on this discussion, but it's not wrong to be a leader. Some people have leadership abilities, and it's their dharma to lead. As a leader you often have to make decisions, and these decisions require discernment. Nothing wrong with using your noggin. Blessings, Shankari kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Karen, Thanks I agree. I have a problem with wanting to help fix things. My excuse is that I just want the best for everyone involved.. I'm acused of trying to always be the peace maker. Guilty I am. At 52 life seems to precious to waist on petty hates and dislikes so I just jump in to fix everything. Debi forall10q <forall10q > wrote: What Dan wrote makes good sense. For me, I know that too often I want to "fix" people, which in a way is just messing around with their karma. I have no business doing that unless they ask for help or send some sort of cue that makes assistance reasonable. What Dan wrote sounds a bit harsh, but I know what he means. Regarding being in the world, especially the work world, MMY once said, "See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery." Love and blessings, Karen , "Dan" <dhkerrmail wrote: > Personally I like to leave people the hell that they're making; and > let God take care of them. Just focus on your mantra. Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Thank you Papai, That was so well stated. Thank you so very, very much. I do this too but not until after the fact. I need to work on seeing things more clearly before acting on them. This is a big help. Debi Papia Roy <roy.papia > wrote: Hi Debi, Sorry to intrude into this discussion, which I was following with great interest. This is what helps me - When someone behaves negatively, I try to project myself into them, literally walk out of myself and stand in their shoes and see the world through their eyes, see me through their eyes. And, I can often feel the confusion, or anger, bitterness, or pain that they have brought in from other areas in their life and into this moment. It usually fills me with compassion, even love, and I am able to walk away from the interaction without bitterness. In an especially difficult situation, I may not be able to do so immediately, but as soon as I can bring myself to. Love Papia Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Karen, I'm so glad it was helpful to you. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers in your situation. These emails have ALL been such a big help to me. Debi forall10q <forall10q > wrote: Debi, thank you for your very helpful post. I think what you are talking about is discrimination, a critical important tool in one's spititual kit; and I was so empowered by your quote from Proverbs that my Bible was taken from the shelf as my husband and I had a wonderful discussion about the two verses you mentioned. Divine Mother, through you and Proverbs, has given me direction regarding a difficult family situation. Love and blessings, Karen , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Hi Debi, Maybe you're supposed to be there, struggling...(someone has to, after all) Jai Maa! Chris , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > Thank you for replying. > From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. > Like: > Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. > DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? > Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? > Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? > > Thanks you everyone! > Now I have some good points to think about. > Debi > > > Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > Namaste Debi: > > This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. > > Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. > > Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. > > Jai Ma! > Shankari Kali > > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsored Link > > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Namaste Debi, Sorry for taking so long to post....i've been away (and sorry if this answer has already been given). Shree Maa has suggested one technique for dealing with judgement and I have been putting it to the test...over and over and over... Any time you notice yourself making a judgement of another's action (or inaction), take a breath and chant a mantra x number of times....for me it has been 21 because (yes there is method to the madness) it is not to long as to make me look crazy to an "uninitiated person" and long enough to make the thought disintegrate! Hope this helps. Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa, gauri , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Yes, Dan suggested this also. Do you have a mantra in mind? I'm working on my beginner Shiva Puja & was considering: Om Krttivasase namah (Om, we bow to he who resides in all action) stham, sthim, sthiro bhava phat (Be still in the gross body, subtile body & causal body PURIFY) santam no-stu krta krtam (peace to all cause & efects) Debi gauri_108 <gauri_108 > wrote: Namaste Debi, Sorry for taking so long to post....i've been away (and sorry if this answer has already been given). Shree Maa has suggested one technique for dealing with judgement and I have been putting it to the test...over and over and over... Any time you notice yourself making a judgement of another's action (or inaction), take a breath and chant a mantra x number of times....for me it has been 21 because (yes there is method to the madness) it is not to long as to make me look crazy to an "uninitiated person" and long enough to make the thought disintegrate! Hope this helps. Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai Maa, gauri , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > gyandesh ragoonath <gyandesh wrote: > I agree with both Dan and Chris, judging others brings absolutely no benefit! Actually, from my own personal experiences, when judging others and pointing out their faults, these faults also become your own! And this is not something one would desire, adding to your own faults - no no no!!! I've got quite enough already to deal with. Find all faults within oneself... > > Jaye Kali Maa. > Gyandesh. > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > > Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:17:19 AM > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Re: Judgement > > You are so right, Dan. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > , "Dan" <dhkerrmail@ ...> wrote: > > > > Regarding being in judgement: > > > > Refraining from judging others is one of the few things people can do > > to, as far as behavior-modificati ons go; that has no downside > > whatever. Only good results come from refraining from judgement of > > others. We were not created for judgement; there is no good reason > > for us to pursue this activity. However the world may have taught us > > that there is something intelligent, witty or beneficial in finding > > other people's faults. This is really false! People are well- > > aware that they have faults; and if they choose not to look at their > > faults today; it's probably because they have found no efficient way > > of dealing with them. The time and energy it takes to find other > > people's faults could be better-used in finding and dissolving our > > own. You can't see your own faults while finding another's. And > > desolving our own faults is the one sure way of making a better world. > > > > > > , Manjit Chopra <manjitc@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to Jump in my name is Gobinder chopra,i have a > > > very small question for swami jee and Maa,Adayaya > > > 4,sloka 17 of Durga saptashati/chandi path talks about > > > Durga Beesa yantra please shed some light on it.Thanks > > > Gobinder chopra. manjitc@ > > > > > > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Judging has always been a problem for me. I make a > > > > distinction between > > > > "knowing" things about others and "judging", but > > > > that distinction is a > > > > razor's edge, and unfortunately, I am too often > > > > falling off it. Being > > > > only love is a beautiful place to strive for. For > > > > myself, I lack the > > > > purity of heart to dwell in that place as much as > > > > I'd like. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gauri_108" > > > > <gauri_108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was walking with Maa the other day and She said > > > > something very > > > > > important (what isn't???) and very relevant to our > > > > behavior > > > > > modification sankalpas. > > > > > She said, "Do not judge others. If there is even > > > > a little bit of > > > > > judgement in your heart, you are falling. Be only > > > > love. If you have > > > > > to speak truth, speak truth (if someone is doing > > > > something less than > > > > > desirable). you will change people's behavior > > > > with your truthful > > > > > behavior." > > > > > (This is not exact word for word, but close...my > > > > apologies for > > > > > liberties taken in paraphrasing) > > > > > > > > > > Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaai Maa, > > > > > gauri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > Sponsored Link > > > > > > Get an Online or Campus degree > > > Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. > > > http://www.findther ightschool. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. 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Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 I realize there's a subtle judgement even in saying 'leave them to the ... that they're making. But sticking to the mantra recitations is a good way to go. And I wouldn't dwell too much on the doubt aspect of 'why am I choosing this. I'd go with the mantra when in doubt too. Re-evaluation can be good; but doubt is not so helpful. Regards, Dan , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > Focus on my mantra! > Thanks! > That will be my goal in dealing with this. > Debi > > Dan <dhkerrmail wrote: > I think it is important to realize that people are not their > behaviors. We cannot see the soul-part of the person; but need to > realize that it is there. Nevertheless; when people insist on certain > behaviors that cause pain to others; we need to ask whether there is > any benefit we can bring to that persons society. And if a person's > actions are negatively affecting us; we need to use our values to > decide, well, what are we doing there. > > Being at work adds an economic angle that makes decisions more difficult. > > You have my sympathy. > > Personally I like to leave people the hell that they're making; and > let God take care of them. Just focus on your mantra. > > But this may not work for everybody. > > Luck! > > Dan > > , Shankari Kali <shankari_kali@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Debi: > > > > This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, > and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are > downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not > judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. > > > > Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain > situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if > they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. > > > > Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy > perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We > should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. > > > > Jai Ma! > > Shankari Kali > > > > Debra McDaniel <student61754@> wrote: > > > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others > and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line > between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements > in the case of others faults. > > > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of > any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order > to make decisions and direct. > > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those > who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes > cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and > have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of > cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive > person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what > ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel > they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just > play the game with them by the rules they created. > > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing > Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be > like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise > in his own conceit. > > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that > I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain > of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how > to correctly deal with these judgements. > > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you > can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's > part of life and we have to learn how to be in > > it and be who we are. > > > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me > better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be > a better person in our journey. > > > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > > Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsored Link > > > > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, > Associate - Click now to apply > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 14, 2006 Papia: Wow, you are brave. I've tried to do that. It seems to me that many peoples manifestations come from some old inner wound that they are compensating for. Unfortunately they have never found a way to heal that wound. And most people in society are going along ignoring their wounds; so it seems like, 'why should I bother?' But anyway; admirable advice. Thanks for contributing, Dan , Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > > Thank you Papai, > That was so well stated. > Thank you so very, very much. > I do this too but not until after the fact. > I need to work on seeing things more clearly before acting on them. > This is a big help. > Debi > > Papia Roy <roy.papia wrote: > Hi Debi, > Sorry to intrude into this discussion, which I was following with great interest. > This is what helps me - When someone behaves negatively, I try to project myself into them, literally walk out of myself and stand in their shoes and see the world through their eyes, see me through their eyes. And, I can often feel the confusion, or anger, bitterness, or pain that they have brought in from other areas in their life and into this moment. It usually fills me with compassion, even love, and I am able to walk away from the interaction without bitterness. In an especially difficult situation, I may not be able to do so immediately, but as soon as I can bring myself to. > Love > Papia > > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > Thank you for replying. > From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. > Like: > Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. > DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? > Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? > Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? > > Thanks you everyone! > Now I have some good points to think about. > Debi > > > Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > Namaste Debi: > > This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. > > Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. > > Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. > > Jai Ma! > Shankari Kali > > Debra McDaniel <student61754 wrote: > I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. > I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. > > When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. > BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. > At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. > I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. > > I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. > Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in > it and be who we are. > > So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. > > Reaching for Enlightenment, > Debi > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsored Link > > Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 15, 2006 Papia, I have recieved 3 now emails from you that have attachments & that go directly into my bulk box. THEY ARE CARRING VIRUS' Check our your system Debi Papia Roy <roy.papia > wrote: Hi Debi, Sorry to intrude into this discussion, which I was following with great interest. This is what helps me - When someone behaves negatively, I try to project myself into them, literally walk out of myself and stand in their shoes and see the world through their eyes, see me through their eyes. And, I can often feel the confusion, or anger, bitterness, or pain that they have brought in from other areas in their life and into this moment. It usually fills me with compassion, even love, and I am able to walk away from the interaction without bitterness. In an especially difficult situation, I may not be able to do so immediately, but as soon as I can bring myself to. Love Papia Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: Thank you for replying. From reading this and Chris' email in responce I am beginning ask myself a few more questions. Like: Why I put myself in a position of authority in the first place. DId I want people to see how great I was because of my ideas or abilities? Am I seeking to be in control because I feel "I" know what's best? Do I simply want to help because I enjoy feeling my creative mind work and ourcome dificulties, does this make me like myself better or am I trying to be liked by others? Thanks you everyone! Now I have some good points to think about. Debi Shankari Kali <shankari_kali > wrote: Namaste Debi: This whole thing about judgement is a toughy. We live in the world, and sometimes the world is not very kind. Sometimes people are downright evil, and sometimes we get the evil end of the stick. Not judging these individuals takes Herculean effort. Like Debi I think that often we have to use discernment in certain situations for self protection. We may not be judging someone, but if they intend to harm us, I think we need to be wise. Sometimes we unenlightened folks view things from a cloudy perspective, and we really cannot see what is really happening. We should stop and wonder if we are judging from a faulty perspective. Jai Ma! Shankari Kali Debra McDaniel <student61754 > wrote: I have found this to be so true in my own life. When I judge others and act on it, it's not long before I'm going through the same thing. I've been working on this lately myself. There is a fine line between making assesments in a situation to help and making judgements in the case of others faults. When trying help someone or being in a position of leadership of any kind you have to make assesments of people and situations in order to make decisions and direct. BUT sometimes when in a position of athority you run into those who are frightened or threateden by the situation & it then becomes cloudy for me. I begin to judge their actions and get protective and have to carefully watch my motives for action. With this kind of cituation I have found 99 % of the time I want to help the disruptive person but they don't want to be helped and feel they have to do what ever it is that they are doing. They just don't understand how cruel they are being and explaining it too them does not help. So I just play the game with them by the rules they created. At this time I have fallen back on my christian up bringing Pro.26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I try to be as kind as I can to settle the situation but feel that I have been judgemental and get upset with myself. I'm tell you all this not to ask for simpathy or to start a chain of talks on my problems but to try to come to an understanding of how to correctly deal with these judgements. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be in a position where you can do your studies & not have to be involved with all this but it's part of life and we have to learn how to be in it and be who we are. So in that light I welcome any teachings you can offer too help me better understand myself in these judgemental situations. So I can be a better person in our journey. Reaching for Enlightenment, Debi Sponsored Link Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr - MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Associate - Click now to apply Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
