not fit for democracy

[theist]

These religious fanatics are truly insane. A democratic system can never work amidst such madness. The Iraq's have shown they are indeed their own worse enemies.

 

The Kurds Sunnis and Shia should be allowed a certain amount of automony with Iraq's oil revenues being split among them IMO.

------

BBC

 

Gunmen seize 100 at Iraq ministry

Gunmen in military-style uniforms have kidnapped more than 100 men from a research institute belonging to Iraq's higher education ministry. A ministry spokeswoman said the gunmen arrived in new pick-up vehicles and stormed the ministry's Research Directorate in central Baghdad.

They ordered women into one room and seized the men, including employees, guards and visitors to the building.

Academics and researchers have been frequent targets of violence in Iraq.

An interior ministry official said the police chief of the Karrada area, where the abduction took place, and senior officers had been placed under investigation and would be "held responsible".

Correspondents say many Iraqis believe mass kidnappings like this latest incident are committed by members of the Shia Muslim-dominated security forces or take place with their collusion.

 

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Higher Education Minister Abd Dhiab said teaching in Baghdad's universities would be halted until the security situation improved. In other developments:

 

• A blast at Baghdad's Shurja market kills 10 people and wounds 25, police say
  
• An overnight US raid killed six people in mainly-Shia east Baghdad, sparking angry anti-US protests
  
• Thirty died in a US raid on the Sunni stronghold of Ramadi, Iraqi officials say.

Identities checked

The head of the parliamentary education committee, Alaa Makki, interrupted a televised parliamentary session with the news and urged the prime minister and interior and defence ministers to respond rapidly to what he called a "national catastrophe".

Mr Makki said the abductees had been both Shias and Sunnis and had been seized by gunmen claiming to be working for the government's anti-corruption body.

 

However, a civil servant who said he was returning to the building at the time of the abduction, described gunmen lining up the male staff in the car park and checking their identity cards. "They picked only the Sunni employees. They even took the man who was just delivering tea," said the eyewitness in an interview with Reuters news agency.

"They gathered them all in the pick-ups. At the same time, I saw two police patrols watching, doing nothing," he said.

The gunmen reportedly closed off roads around the institute and took away their captives in handcuffs.

The office is responsible for awarding grants to Iraqi academics wishing to study abroad.

Academic institutions have been particularly badly hit in the violence that has engulfed Iraq since the US invasion in 2003, with dozens of professors killed and hundreds leaving the country because of fears for their safety.

The higher education minister is a member of main Sunni Arab political bloc in Iraq - where most ministries are fiefdoms of the various sectarian groups.

Mr Dhiab told reporters that the gunmen had headed towards east Baghdad after the abduction, but police units who gave chase failed to catch them.

[gHari]

That was my exact response to that news of a 100 academics being kidnapped.

 

They have made a complete joke of their religion.

 

They are not even human.

[Guest guest]

Well, one reason why they may be having a difficult time grasping what "democracy" is, is the country trying to teach them what democracy is

is not even a democracy itself. The US is a constitutional republic, and moreover, some go as far as to say the US is a theocratic oligarchy. But you could not call the US a democracy by a long shot. Does each person in US vote directly on each issue? One person, one vote? Or do they elect people tp represent them, as spelled out in their Constitution?

 

For a source of unembedded news, try "Democracy NOW!" or "Counterpunch!"

[both online]. I think you might really like Counterpunch as one of its correspondents Sainath writes for "The Hindu" in India and is the only journalist/ correspondent who covers rural India issues, such as what Coca-Cola is doing in Kerala.

 

And as far as "now no one can accept Islam as a boner-fried religion", that's like saying because of the antics of Kirtanananda, Hans Kary, Bhavs, and Bhags then of course now no one can accept Hinduism as a boner-fried religion. Go to college, get an education, take a course in Islam and learn about the differences in each region and each sect. Learn about what the original intent was and all of the variations that came after it. Moreover, study the teachings of Lord Chaitanya who engaged in dialogue with Chand Kazi and found common ground; study the pamphlets written by disciple of

ACBSP who explain how Hinduism can meld with Islam so nicely if people focus on similarities and not the differences.

 

Go and learn history that Islam has been a more tolerant presence in some countries than when its Christian counterparts tried their hand at it: let's say the Islamic presence in Spain and compare what the accomplishments and milieu was like under the Muslims there versus when the Spanish Inquisition was the order of the day from the Catholic Church. Are you telling me that no Christian has ever rounded up and executed intellectuals?

 

And to lighten up, get your news first from The Borowitz Report [online also].

I realize that some people just aren't educated and so it doesn't mean you are foolish but it does mean that you are uneducated. Learn from sources other than embedded news why people might be doing things like rounding up folks and executing them. Learn how to differentiate between the actions of a few versus the great saintly people who quietly live their life ideally living out the precept of each of the world's religions.

 

If you are a devotee then surely you are aware of Vedic astrology? And knwo that one third of the people are rakshasa gana [demoniac], 1/3 are manusya [human - tend to go either way], and 1/3 deva [the people in the world doing the right things, helpful things, saintly things all of the time under even the most trying of circumstances]. So in Islam there are losers just as in Gaudiya Vaisnavism there have been some people who set everything back.

At the same time in Islam there are saintly people and ditto for GV.

 

So for the sake of the manusya people reading this, who tend to go either way, I am pointing out that there is a reason for everything, look deeper, and there are many good, beautiful, true, and noble things about Islam and there are also incredibly sensitive and spiritual Islamic people in the world also. You can start by looking at an American convert to Islam, Lisa Hallaby, and read her autobiography; she now goes by the name of Queen Noor of Jordan.

[theist]

Yes gHari,

 

Religious fanaticism taken to this extreme is impossible to deal with. The only way would seem be quick and sure executions. Get caught planting a bomb or kidnapping and you hang within a week. But there is no stomach for the solution so they are doomed to live with the disease.

 

It's a shame for most common folk. The majority in the country who live outside the Bhagdad and "Triangle of Death" areas seem to be doing well and getting along.

[gHari]

Sunni Pakistan has nuclear missiles, so Shiia Iran must arm themselves. Pity the people under their fallout cloud as it floats over Asia/Europe/anywhere after their upcoming nuclear sectarian war.

 

We underestimate how foolish these people are.

 

Would you buy a used car from this man:

 

[Guest guest]

But before BDM thinks im goin righty on him, Im glad ortega got nicaragua back. I always liked dem sandinisthas, and I like the clash and their album by the same name.

 

In fact, I recommend this Clash album, made during ronald reagan regime (now theres a 6-6-6 for ya, ronald reagan regime) for all to hear in this time frame, washington bullets, mikey dread at the controls, the best white reggae ever. career opportunities is a great song, as is all of this two disc set.

 

mahak

 

we needed a music theme here, because them shiahs have no music in their hearts

[theist]

 

Sunni Pakistan has nuclear missiles, so Shiia Iran must arm themselves. Pity the people under their fallout cloud as it floats over Asia/Europe/anywhere after their upcoming nuclear sectarian war.

 

We underestimate how foolish these people are.

 

Would you buy a used car from this man:

 

 

I never thought of Iran vs. Pakistan Just one more horrible twist. I figured this used car salesman would just launch one towards Tel Aviv as soon as they learned it worked. Kind of the ultimate suicide bombing. Shouting Allah Akbar as the while of course.

 

ps no I would buy a used car from that little creep, I would not even accept a glass of water from his hand.

[Guest guest]

SUMMARY OF BOOK:

CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HIT MAN

BY JOHN PERKINS. FROM DEMOCRACY NOW! interview by Amy Goodman

 

We have a world empire that is controlled by a very few men I call the

CORPORATOCRACY. Out of the 100 largest economies in the world, 52 are corporations, NOT nations; 47 are US corporations. One percent of Americans own more of the wealth than 90% of our population.

 

Basically, economic hit men went in and when world leaders stood up to them, then military force was used. In Iran, Mossadeq stood up to BP in 1951. So Kermit Roosevelt, CIA agent, was sent there to create riots, protest, havoc, overthrow Mossadeq.

 

Halliburton was in there building cities, power plants, highways, and getting very very rich. EVEN TO THIS DAY, OSAMA BIN LADEN CITES WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SHAH: HOW THE US OVERTHREW MOSSADEQ AS THE REASON FOR HIS ANGER.

 

President Truman did not want to do this; Eisenhower went along with it.

Then we did the same thing in Saudi Arabia, because they are easily corruptible.: EVEN TO THE POINT THAT WE KNOW THAT THE HOUSE OF SAUD SUPPORTS OSAMA BIN LADEN and gave shelter to the Hitler of Africa, Idi Amin (who died living in a mansion in Saudi Arabia).

 

"As time went by I went to see how WE'RE LOSING OUR SENSE OF DEMOCRACY ALMOST COMPLETELY and have become a CORPORATOCRACY.

It has been done so subtly that most Americans have no idea that it has even been going on.

 

"This empire that we have created HAS MADE SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ANGRY. I knew I had to expose the truth because what happened at WTC is a direct result of what we as economic hit men did.

 

"After our tremendous success in Saudia Arabia, WE DECIDED THAT WE SHOULD DO THE SAME THING IN IRAQ." --John Perkins, author of

"Confessions of an Economic Hit Man", number one seller on Amazon, best-seller on NYTimes book list, but strangely enough no mainstream media will interview him and no mainstream publisher would publish the book.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Yes gHari,

 

Religious fanaticism taken to this extreme is impossible to deal with....But there is no stomach for the solution so they are doomed to live with the disease.

 

Correct.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

But before BDM thinks im goin righty on him...

 

I went 'righty' so - it could happen to you too

[Sridas]

You know they're strange these political forums. I think if you relate to either right or left of worldly governments, both will confuse as they are a long way short of trustworthy. Both sides being a mixture of corrupt and exploitative values, far left and right of central interest, parading as champions of the people while the rest of the world looks on in disbelief.

Of course the rest of the megalomaniacs controlling and ruling other nations are usually no better, they just come in different guises.

So even when you get free choice to vote for your representives of the people, who is there to choose from? And if the people are so confused, how will they ever know the Truth in such a maze of misinformation and propaganda, or even relative truth about both parties ulterior motives, both subtle and obvious, its design is to confuse, frustrate and destroy confidence.

If I had to back either I'm sure I'd be constantly depressed.

Why bother giving any energy to them, as if they change things for the better.

 

Having said that the fella in the photo above and N Korea's Kim Jong are serious contenders for the worlds most dangerous crims. What most Americans don't understand about these anti-parties is that they will sacrifice whole populations before they fold their hand. Life is cheap to them and they have nothing to lose. The worst enemy is the one that doesn't believe in the soul anyway, and doesn't understand life goes on where we leave off, so we are responsible for our crimes and our sinful activity.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

....Having said that the fella in the photo above and N Korea's Kim Jong are serious contenders for the worlds most dangerous crims. What most Americans don't understand about these anti-parties is that they will sacrifice whole populations before they fold their hand. Life is cheap to them and they have nothing to lose....

 

 

[Kulapavana]

 

These religious fanatics are truly insane. A democratic system can never work amidst such madness. The Iraq's have shown they are indeed their own worse enemies.

 

LOL! what a discovery!

 

anybody with half a brain knew 4 years ago that removing Saddam from power by an outside intervention and replacing him with a "democratic system" was a total LUNACY. that artificial country known as Iraq was held together only by a brutal dictatorship. it was as obvious as it gets but the neo-con-artists aligned with Israel and supported by a salivating industrial-military complex still pushed the country into war. THEY achieved their objective. benefiting the Iraqi people was NEVER a real consideration.

 

US efforts to save face by staying in Iraq are just as absurd as invading that country in the first place. The US forces cant even trust the Iraqi government they helped to create. Yes, the US pullout will most likely lead to an all out civil war, but that is inevitable in ANY case. At least US will remove itself from an equation where it is not helping anyway and things will take their own natural course. The Shias are simply using Americans as a shield in their game with Sunnis, with US gone, they will have to make hard choices and settle with Sunnis.

 

but US will not do it. the lobbies that got us into this war are still there, as powerful as ever. so the bleeding will continue for many more years. just like the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

LOL! what a discovery!

 

anybody with half a brain knew 4 years ago that removing Saddam from power by an outside intervention and replacing him with a "democratic system" was a total LUNACY. that artificial country known as Iraq was held together only by a brutal dictatorship. it was as obvious as it gets but the neo-con-artists aligned with Israel and supported by a salivating industrial-military complex still pushed the country into war. THEY achieved their objective. benefiting the Iraqi people was NEVER a real consideration.

 

US efforts to save face by staying in Iraq are just as absurd as invading that country in the first place. The US forces cant even trust the Iraqi government they helped to create. Yes, the US pullout will most likely lead to an all out civil war, but that is inevitable in ANY case. At least US will remove itself from an equation where it is not helping anyway and things will take their own natural course. The Shias are simply using Americans as a shield in their game with Sunnis, with US gone, they will have to make hard choices and settle with Sunnis.

 

but US will not do it. the lobbies that got us into this war are still there, as powerful as ever. so the bleeding will continue for many more years. just like the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

 

You just think we aught to pander to the islamists and let them dictate the direction that everything aught to go...

[theist]

Well Kulapavanna, I must have less then half a brain. Your acknowledgment of half is surely a sign of your generosity. I was and still am very happy to see Saddam ousted. I applied the example of a thorn taking out a thorn when this all began. That still holds. It is the nation building I object to and Bush said during his campaign he was also against nation building. Appears he got lost along the way. To me that is where the problem lays.

 

Frankly I would like to see no US forces on the ground in Iraq. I am for sustained air wars on military targets to bring these people down. Notice how Kaddafi got a new perspective after Reagan sent in the air force. Notice how he surrendered his nuclear program the to USA after the US ousted Saddam.

 

By now I would have liked to have seen Iran's nuclear facilties bombed into the sand even if it took tacticle nukes to do it. The US cannot because it has given Iran 150,000 US soldiers next door in Iraq as hostages.

 

But what can we earthlings really expect. We have built and continue to build a great negative karmic debt the reactions to which must come back overriding the "best laid plans of mice and men" including these so-called world leaders.

 

It may be this mess will have to be cleansed with fire before the Holy Spirit can appear.

 

But amidst war, chaos and consfusion, as well as in peace and traquility... Hare Krsna Hare Krsna....

[Guest guest]

from Kipu'ka, by mahaksadasa (excerpt)

 

"I went to a Jimi Hendrix concert in California. While inside, a war

protest group had crossed the line of military patience. It was civil

disobediance in front of a nearby induction center, where busloads of

civilians were forced into the holocaust of Southeast Asia every

morning. The group had chained themselves to the garage to prevent

the busses from rolling the following morning. There was no trouble

caused by the fifteen protesters, but four huge green National Guard

trucks were parked with cannons loaded with gas cannisters, and

hundreds of soldiers armed with clubs. The fifteen were chanting

mystic mantras when the concert let out, and thousands of very high

young people, the amazing guitar riffs of Hendrix still in our ears,

filled the streets. As hundreds naturally went in trance toward the

chanting, the green monsters exploded into life. A green fog was

hurled into the innocent without discrimination. Soldiers pulled

teenaged girls out of their parents' cars, bludgeoned them and threw

them into more green busses with iron grating, arriving by the

dozens. Four youths were on the freeway onramp, trying to hitchhike

out of harm's way, but they were gassed at point blank range until

they lay unconscious. This was not an anomaly, it happened once a

week on the mainland during the late sixties. The military has no

tolerance for civil disobediance. I know they will be waiting again

for you on the West Cliffs, and you will be arrested. But their

patience is wearing thin and the publicity you generate from this

could lead to action beyond our comprehension."

 

mahak 11-16-06. Now, soon Id like to speak sandinistha. Id like to tie in 6-6-6 (ronald reagan regime) with not only the horrible overthrow of a duly elected democratic leader (Ortega), but how it was done, and how our POTUS was directly involved in establishing this leader of Iran pictured here. There is actually too much to divulge, but this standard bearer of the bogus fascist neocon is the CAUSE of the horrible world situation, including the CAUSE of 911.

 

Beyond our comprehension.

 

haribol, im done for now, im going back to the mellow topics. mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Frank Secord, good friend of this Irani leader who led the Tehran students who took american hostages, is the one who destroyed carters plan to rescue them. He later became 6-6-6's henchman, who made the crack flow to the black youth of US inner-cities to finance the death squads in nicaragua and el salvidore, aided by bush's ambassador who is now running the death squads in Iraq.

 

So, I see this dude who is president of Iran, a madman, and I give full credit to the one who sold him arms, frank secord, who pulled the strings to have crack troops with vietnam experiance out of carters rescue plan (secord had the power to do that back in 1980),m replaced by rookie guard hilo pilots. Gave his buddy, 6-6-6, the position of POTUS.

[Guest guest]

In the book, "Lies, Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them", meticulously researched for Al Franken by approx 12 Harvard/ Ivy kids, it shows that we had the technology to go into Iraq or anywhere and do the mission accomplished thing by remote location with no need for ground troops at all.

 

Remember the "smart bombs" used under Bill Clinton's tenure? This book explains how the real reason US went into Iraq was to do the Economic Hit Man thing: to totally disrupt and cause chaos to the society. If you read non-embedded journalism, you can see how a city that once had a university, professors, working women doctors who could drive cars to work, working electricity and working sewage system has gone back centuries due to the chaos that resulted from the US and Brit presence there.

 

For example, read the unembedded journalism version of how the Great Library of Baghdad was destroyed: the troops there to "help" allegedly did nothing to prevent people from looting priceless treasures of antiquity being taken away by mafioso/ thugs in an extremely organized fashion. Now where do you think that these priceless treasures are going to end up? The spoils of war for one of the one percent of the people who own over 90% of the world's resources. Meanwhile the Head Librarian of the Great Library of Baghdad saw what was coming and tried to save as many books as she could by sneaking them out under her burqa and storing them in her house and then in her friends' houses. Some of the documents stolen were thousands of years old and the only one of its kind in the world.

 

The economic hit men and the jackals who follow them were up to their usual m.o. of creating chaos and pandemonium and civil war, that's all. And yes Mahaksa, Dubya's brother owned the security firm in charge of WTC, so that would make it easy to wire the building for demolition. Three college kids researched this and they have a website and a video explaining and showing everything. Actually lots of websites very clearly explain all of this.

 

"The party on the left

is now the party on the right...

Won't Get Fooled Again!" --The Who

[Kulapavana]

 

We have built and continue to build a great negative karmic debt the reactions to which must come back overriding the "best laid plans of mice and men" including these so-called world leaders..

 

and adding on more karmic debt by starting new wars is definitely not helping.

[theist]

War is also a reaction. Actions seen from one angle appear to be causitive. Same action from a different angle is seen as a reaction. In other words wars don't start in a vacuum.

[guruji]

waging war to divert the attention of the citizens who are economically affected is the tactics of certain coutries like Pakistan , Iraq and isreal.

For their internal problems they should not have a ride over other countries.

[Ayodhya]

Wars also boost the economy, albeit for a short time.