Humility & learning lessons of life

September 7, 2006

Dear list,

I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal Aries

rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are from

Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can

compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work

last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared

that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an option,

at least so far.

The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html

Regards, Sari

September 7, 2006

Dear Satish,

I would consider him less Krura for indications of the bhava indicated

by Karka.

Chandrashekhar.

SPK wrote:

>

> Chadrashekharji,

>

> Can you say same for mangal. Mangal in karka becomes

> more krura or less ?

>

> Thanks

>

> Satish

>

> --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 (AT) (DOT) co.uk

> <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> wrote:

>

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> >

> > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > strength the Krura grahas

> > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > become more shubha.

> > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > less krura when

> > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > ended when I was 15

> > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > part? I was old

> > > enough to understand the difference between

> > success and failure, I

> > > guess!

> > >

> > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > results, and those

> > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > automatically follows that

> > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > (vide "a catechism

> > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > evil, give good

> > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > giving such good

> > > results:--))

> > >

> > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > in shadbala

> > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > combinations" of Sri

> > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > likely to give the

> > > results of a yoga.

> > >

> > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > Parva of

> > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > in grief, because

> > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > Even the episode you

> > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > only Brahmins and

> > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > Parashurama so

> > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > certainly punishable and

> > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > that whatever

> > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > dearest friend. Karna

> > > did not gain anything personally.

> > >

> > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > think there was a typo

> > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > sign, being the

> > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > disha. South is the

> > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > 10th house

> > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > Sun and Mars) are

> > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > starts his

> > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > 10th house.

> > >

> > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > deity. Perhaps this

> > > escaped your attention.

> > >

> > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > >

> > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > to manifest,

> > > though it

> > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > you received

> > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > interesting to know you

> > > got

> > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > is when Sun dasha

> > > was

> > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > health problems in

> > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > >

> > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > give results of Sun

> > > more

> > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > also that of

> > > Mercury

> > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > and that is why I

> > > said

> > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > dasha needs to be

> > > analyzed.

> > > >

> > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > because Jyotish says

> > > that

> > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > and he is conjunct

> > > two,

> > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > >

> > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > directly involved with

> > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > smashana/burial

> > > ground, it

> > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > is why affliction

> > > to it

> > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > mrityu sthana and

> > > hence

> > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > smashana why would it be

> > > called

> > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > brilliant there?

> > > >

> > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > in temple, but not

> > > only

> > > > those.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > received promotion(s),

> > > my

> > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > quiz contests etc,

> > > apart

> > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > that's excellent!!

> > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > Rahu is certainly

> > > giving

> > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > house and being

> > > conjunct

> > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > results of Sun? You

> > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > combust too:--))

> > > > >

> > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > for attachment?

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > can't he represent

> > > > > temple tank?

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

> <>

>

> ------

>

> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

>

> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release 8/31/2006

>

September 7, 2006

Dear Sari,

That is a great effort. Keep it up.

Chandrashekhar.

Sari Metsovuori wrote:

>

> Dear list,

>

> I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal

> Aries

> rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are

> from

> Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can

> compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work

> last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared

> that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an

> option,

> at least so far.

>

> The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html

> <http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html>

>

> Regards, Sari

>

> ------

>

> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

>

> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release 8/31/2006

>

September 8, 2006

Dear Sari

That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My first impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra long the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa pics for the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or 'regal' of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the dark furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign!

Brilliant project ---thanks

Margaret

-

Sari Metsovuori

Thursday, September 07, 2006 3:12 PM

Ascendant Gallery

Dear list,

I've made a little site where there is over 100 pictures of sidereal Aries

rising people, sorted by the ascending degree. All the birth times are from

Lois Rodden's AstroDatabank and I haven't rectified anything. You can

compare navamsas with Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas. When I started the work

last spring, I started with Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but it soon appeared

that navamsas don't work with it; that's why I haven't made it as an option,

at least so far.

The URL of the site: http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html

Regards, Sari

September 8, 2006

Dear Pradeep, Chandrasekharji and Margaret,

thank you for your comments. I had fun doing the gallery, when I noted that

people with the same or very close ascending degrees really resemble each

other, sometimes surprisingly much. Takanohana and MFK Fisher are one of my

favourite example. Maybe that could be one way to prove astrology... I think

I'll add numbers on the pictures so that it's easier to discuss about them.

Regards, Sari

-

"Marg" <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

<>

Friday, September 08, 2006 11:26 AM

Re: Ascendant Gallery

> Dear Sari

>

> That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My first

> impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra long

> the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa pics for

> the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or 'regal'

> of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose

> rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the dark

> furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign!

> Brilliant project ---thanks

> Margaret

September 8, 2006

Om Gurave namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets,

whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish

texts teach?

Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

suffered.

Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars

and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"?

Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house

being beneficial?

I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

Regards,

Lakshmi

Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

read it up myself and understand.

> > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46

> > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > >

> > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > become more shubha.

> > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > less krura when

> > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > ended when I was 15

> > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > part? I was old

> > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > success and failure, I

> > > > guess!

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > results, and those

> > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > automatically follows that

> > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > evil, give good

> > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > giving such good

> > > > results:--))

> > > >

> > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > in shadbala

> > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > likely to give the

> > > > results of a yoga.

> > > >

> > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > Parva of

> > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > in grief, because

> > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > Even the episode you

> > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > only Brahmins and

> > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > Parashurama so

> > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > certainly punishable and

> > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > that whatever

> > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > >

> > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > think there was a typo

> > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > sign, being the

> > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > disha. South is the

> > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > 10th house

> > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > starts his

> > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > 10th house.

> > > >

> > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > escaped your attention.

> > > >

> > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > >

> > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > to manifest,

> > > > though it

> > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > you received

> > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > interesting to know you

> > > > got

> > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > was

> > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > health problems in

> > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > >

> > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > give results of Sun

> > > > more

> > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > also that of

> > > > Mercury

> > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > and that is why I

> > > > said

> > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > dasha needs to be

> > > > analyzed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > because Jyotish says

> > > > that

> > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > and he is conjunct

> > > > two,

> > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > >

> > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > directly involved with

> > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > smashana/burial

> > > > ground, it

> > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > is why affliction

> > > > to it

> > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > hence

> > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > smashana why would it be

> > > > called

> > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > brilliant there?

> > > > >

> > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > in temple, but not

> > > > only

> > > > > those.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > received promotion(s),

> > > > my

> > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > apart

> > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > giving

> > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > house and being

> > > > conjunct

> > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > combust too:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > can't he represent

> > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> > <>

> >

> > --------------------------------

-------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >

> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

8/31/2006

> >

>

September 8, 2006

Dear Sari,

Please do the numbering of the pictures. That would certainly make

discussing them easier.

Chandrashekhar.

Sari Metsovuori wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep, Chandrasekharji and Margaret,

>

> thank you for your comments. I had fun doing the gallery, when I noted

> that

> people with the same or very close ascending degrees really resemble each

> other, sometimes surprisingly much. Takanohana and MFK Fisher are one

> of my

> favourite example. Maybe that could be one way to prove astrology... I

> think

> I'll add numbers on the pictures so that it's easier to discuss about

> them.

>

> Regards, Sari

>

> -

> "Marg" <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net <margie9%40talktalk.net>>

> < <%40>>

> Friday, September 08, 2006 11:26 AM

> Re: Ascendant Gallery

>

> > Dear Sari

> >

> > That is quite a commendable project, and thanks for sharing it. My

> first

> > impression on looking at these pics is how strikingly round or extra

> long

> > the faces in the Taurus navamsa section are, and the Leo navamsa

> pics for

> > the most part, seems to contain pics with the most haughtiest or

> 'regal'

> > of looks. The Scorpio section is amusingly punctuated by Marchall whose

> > rather furtive sideways peering over his high collar epitomises the

> dark

> > furtive,secretiveness associated with this sign!

> > Brilliant project ---thanks

> > Margaret

>

> ------

>

> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/441 - Release 9/7/2006

>

September 8, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi.

I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr. Raman

said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is lord of

the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At the same

time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think again

about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it did

to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became

shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of the

example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy

(barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail), without

looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make up

your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you know

Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand and Mars

is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do you

think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in debilitation in

Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi

chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been

mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a paper

"Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every graha is

capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the very

least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give identical

results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha Yoga

would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn), just

because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and expected us

to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

"Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst

astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does not fit

in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an exercise

in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be glad to

give it to you.

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong planets,

> whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

> give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

> giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the jyotish

> texts teach?

>

> Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

> have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

> suffered.

>

> Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

>

> Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

>

> Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

>

> Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H). Mars

> and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

>

> Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH sritam"?

> Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th house

> being beneficial?

>

> I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

> read it up myself and understand.

>

> > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46

> > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > >

> > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > become more shubha.

> > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > less krura when

> > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > part? I was old

> > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > guess!

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > results, and those

> > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > evil, give good

> > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > giving such good

> > > > > results:--))

> > > > >

> > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > in shadbala

> > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > likely to give the

> > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > Parva of

> > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > in grief, because

> > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > that whatever

> > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > >

> > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > sign, being the

> > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > 10th house

> > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > starts his

> > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > 10th house.

> > > > >

> > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > to manifest,

> > > > > though it

> > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > you received

> > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > was

> > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > health problems in

> > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > more

> > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > also that of

> > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > and that is why I

> > > > > said

> > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > that

> > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > two,

> > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > is why affliction

> > > > > to it

> > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > hence

> > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > called

> > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > only

> > > > > > those.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > apart

> > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > house and being

> > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > === message truncated ===

> > >

> > > <>

> < <>>

> > >

> > > -------------------------

> -------

> > >

> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > >

> > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date:

> 8/31/2006

> > >

> >

September 9, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not

confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether benefic

or malefic, give good results.

I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do

you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

I also requested you to give the source and context of your quote.

Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle and

example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept whatever

you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why you

have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

acknowledged masters of astrology?

I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if

possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later

(after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself.

After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

Regards,

Lakshmi

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Divine Lakshmi.

>

> I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr.

Raman

> said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

>

> For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

lord of

> the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

the same

> time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think

again

> about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it

did

> to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became

> shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to

the 7th

> Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of

the

> example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy

> (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

without

> looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make

up

> your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

know

> Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

and Mars

> is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do

you

> think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's

chart,

> I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

debilitation in

> Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi

> chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been

> mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust

you are

> aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a

paper

> "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

>

> Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

graha is

> capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

very

> least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

identical

> results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

Yoga

> would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

just

> because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

expected us

> to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

>

> I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst

> astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

not fit

> in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

exercise

> in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

glad to

> give it to you.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

planets,

> > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

> > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

> > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

jyotish

> > texts teach?

> >

> > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

> > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

> > suffered.

> >

> > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> >

> > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> >

> > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> >

> > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

Mars

> > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

> >

> > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

sritam"?

> > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

house

> > being beneficial?

> >

> > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

> > read it up myself and understand.

> >

> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > >

> > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > less krura when

> > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > guess!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > starts his

> > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > you received

> > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > got

> > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > also that of

> > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > called

> > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > house and being

> > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > === message truncated ===

> > > >

> > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

> > > > <>

> > < <>>

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------

> > -------

> > > >

> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > >

> > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

Date:

> > 8/31/2006

> > > >

> > >

September 9, 2006

Dear Lakshmi,

You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and

strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is the

shloka:

AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>,

ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù|

ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!.

durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam||

I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You may

have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW PALLADIO IT

fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka.

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not

> confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

> major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether benefic

> or malefic, give good results.

>

> I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

> accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do

> you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

>

> I also requested you to give the source and context of your quote.

>

> Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle and

> example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept whatever

> you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

> experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why you

> have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

> acknowledged masters of astrology?

>

> I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if

> possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

> analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later

> (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

> you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself.

> After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi.

> >

> > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what Dr.

> Raman

> > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

> >

> > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

> lord of

> > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> the same

> > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think

> again

> > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it

> did

> > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became

> > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to

> the 7th

> > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each of

> the

> > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy

> > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> without

> > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make

> up

> > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> know

> > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> and Mars

> > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do

> you

> > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans Ramkrishna's

> chart,

> > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> debilitation in

> > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi

> > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been

> > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust

> you are

> > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a

> paper

> > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> >

> > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> graha is

> > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

> very

> > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> identical

> > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

> Yoga

> > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> just

> > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> expected us

> > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> >

> > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst

> > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

> not fit

> > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> exercise

> > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

> glad to

> > give it to you.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> planets,

> > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

> > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

> > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> jyotish

> > > texts teach?

> > >

> > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

> > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

> > > suffered.

> > >

> > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > >

> > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > >

> > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

> Mars

> > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

> > >

> > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> sritam"?

> > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

> house

> > > being beneficial?

> > >

> > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

> > > read it up myself and understand.

> > >

> > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > >

> > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> around

> > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > -------------------------

> > > -------

> > > > >

> > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > >

> > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> Date:

> > > 8/31/2006

> > > > >

> > > >

September 12, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time.

Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i

only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the

correct context in which your quote should be interpreted.

Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify

it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti (bless

him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of saravali,

in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com)

and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit.

ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé|

guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1||

The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the strength,

Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones

ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief.

ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by you)

The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their placement

in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak,

the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is

different.

Let me clearly state what i understand from the above:

If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then mind

is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is strong

then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's

sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is strong,

and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn

gives a different result.

Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If

Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief.

Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma mentioned

Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!!

Regards,

Lakshmi

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi,

>

> You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and

> strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is

the

> shloka:

>

> AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>,

>

> ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù|

>

> ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!.

>

> durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam||

>

> I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You

may

> have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW

PALLADIO IT

> fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not

> > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

> > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether

benefic

> > or malefic, give good results.

> >

> > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

> > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do

> > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

> >

> > I also requested you to give the source and context of your

quote.

> >

> > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle

and

> > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept

whatever

> > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

> > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why

you

> > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

> > acknowledged masters of astrology?

> >

> > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if

> > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

> > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later

> > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

> > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself.

> > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Divine Lakshmi.

> > >

> > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what

Dr.

> > Raman

> > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

> > >

> > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya

is

> > lord of

> > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> > the same

> > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

think

> > again

> > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

what it

> > did

> > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

became

> > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to

> > the 7th

> > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each

of

> > the

> > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

occupy

> > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> > without

> > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

make

> > up

> > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> > know

> > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> > and Mars

> > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

exaltation. Do

> > you

> > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans

Ramkrishna's

> > chart,

> > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > debilitation in

> > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in

rasi

> > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

been

> > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust

> > you are

> > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

of a

> > paper

> > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > >

> > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> > graha is

> > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

the

> > very

> > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > identical

> > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

Mahapurusha

> > Yoga

> > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> > just

> > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > expected us

> > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > >

> > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

amongst

> > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

does

> > not fit

> > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > exercise

> > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course

be

> > glad to

> > > give it to you.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > planets,

> > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

planets

> > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

malefics

> > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > jyotish

> > > > texts teach?

> > > >

> > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

malefics

> > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

significations

> > > > suffered.

> > > >

> > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > >

> > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

(4H).

> > Mars

> > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

navamsa.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > sritam"?

> > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

8th

> > house

> > > > being beneficial?

> > > >

> > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

like to

> > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > >

> > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > around

> > > > > > <>

> > < <>>

> > > > < <>

> > < <>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > -------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> > Date:

> > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > >

> > > > >

September 12, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

I forgot to add the following:

1) I find that there's no disagreement between what's given in other

texts and Saravali.

2)I also find that according to the shloka quoted by you, there's no

support for the supposition that krura planets become maha-krura

with exaltation...unless you happen to equate Soul and strength with

krura tatwa!!

3) Mercury is ofcourse karaka for speech:--))

Regards,

Lakshmi

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time.

>

> Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i

> only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the

> correct context in which your quote should be interpreted.

>

> Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify

> it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti

(bless

> him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of

saravali,

> in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com)

> and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit.

>

> ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé|

> guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1||

>

> The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the

strength,

> Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones

> ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief.

>

> ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by

you)

>

> The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their

placement

> in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak,

> the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is

> different.

>

> Let me clearly state what i understand from the above:

> If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then

mind

> is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is

strong

> then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's

> sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is

strong,

> and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn

> gives a different result.

>

> Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If

> Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief.

>

> Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma

mentioned

> Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!!

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi,

> >

> > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature

and

> > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here

is

> the

> > shloka:

> >

> > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>,

> >

> > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù|

> >

> > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!.

> >

> > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam||

> >

> > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You

> may

> > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW

> PALLADIO IT

> > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have

not

> > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

> > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether

> benefic

> > > or malefic, give good results.

> > >

> > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

> > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How

do

> > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

> > >

> > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your

> quote.

> > >

> > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by

principle

> and

> > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept

> whatever

> > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

> > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering

why

> you

> > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

> > > acknowledged masters of astrology?

> > >

> > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the

quote....if

> > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

> > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you

later

> > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

> > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting

myself.

> > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi.

> > > >

> > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what

> Dr.

> > > Raman

> > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

> > > >

> > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart

Surya

> is

> > > lord of

> > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga.

At

> > > the same

> > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> think

> > > again

> > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

> what it

> > > did

> > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> became

> > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened

to

> > > the 7th

> > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In

each

> of

> > > the

> > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> occupy

> > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous

mail),

> > > without

> > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> make

> > > up

> > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did

you

> > > know

> > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left

hand

> > > and Mars

> > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

> exaltation. Do

> > > you

> > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans

> Ramkrishna's

> > > chart,

> > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > > debilitation in

> > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation

in

> rasi

> > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> been

> > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I

trust

> > > you are

> > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

> of a

> > > paper

> > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > > >

> > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas.

Every

> > > graha is

> > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

> the

> > > very

> > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > > identical

> > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

> Mahapurusha

> > > Yoga

> > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring

Saturn),

> > > just

> > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > > expected us

> > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > > >

> > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> amongst

> > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

> does

> > > not fit

> > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > > exercise

> > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of

course

> be

> > > glad to

> > > > give it to you.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > > planets,

> > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> planets

> > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> malefics

> > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > > jyotish

> > > > > texts teach?

> > > > >

> > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> malefics

> > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> significations

> > > > > suffered.

> > > > >

> > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th

house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

> (4H).

> > > Mars

> > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> navamsa.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > > sritam"?

> > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

> 8th

> > > house

> > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

> like to

> > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > >

> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > > around

> > > > > > > <>

> > > < <>>

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> > > < <>>>

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Release

> > > Date:

> > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

September 12, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

lord of

> the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

the same

> time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think

again

> about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it

did

> to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became

> shubha or less malefic.

Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass

operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-Ven-

Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon

and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and

gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger

from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on

Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak

Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja

yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went.

Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th

gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the

exalted Saturn in 4th house.

In each of the

> example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy

> (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

without

> looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make

up

> your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

know

> Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

and Mars

> is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do

you

> think Mars gave him benevolent results?

Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) &

12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and

gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the

effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

indirect, and he was not the killer.

Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the

death.

Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated

with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

Regards,

Lakshmi

In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

debilitation in

> Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi

> chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been

> mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's

chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message

again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a

paper

> "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

graha is

> capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

very

> least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

identical

> results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

Yoga

> would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

just

> because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

expected us

> to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

>

> I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst

> astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

not fit

> in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

exercise

> in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

glad to

> give it to you.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

planets,

> > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

> > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

> > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

jyotish

> > texts teach?

> >

> > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

> > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

> > suffered.

> >

> > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> >

> > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> >

> > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> >

> > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

Mars

> > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

> >

> > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

sritam"?

> > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

house

> > being beneficial?

> >

> > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

> > read it up myself and understand.

> >

> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > >

> > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > less krura when

> > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > guess!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > starts his

> > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > you received

> > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > got

> > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > also that of

> > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > called

> > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > house and being

> > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > === message truncated ===

> > > >

> > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around

> > > > <>

> > < <>>

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------

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> > > >

> > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > >

> > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

Date:

> > 8/31/2006

> > > >

> > >

September 12, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

Continuing from where i left earlier, in Sri ramana Maharshi's case,

Sun & Rahu, also posited in the 7th from Moon, are the marakas.

Ramana Maharshi died of Cancer, and it is known that expansive

planets like Rahu and jupiter cause cancer. Ofcourse, Mars as the

6th lord from Moon and 3& 8th lord from lagna can also indicate

illness, but in Sri Ramana's case it's the afflicted Sun who proved

to be the maraka more than the strong Mars!!

Talking about Shri Aurobindo, I think Vande Mataram is a nationalist

newspaper and as such is bound to contain fiery language. I am

puzzled that for you, Sri Aurobindo pesonifies only Vande Mataram

and not his other attributes/achievements. He excelled in various

languages including latin, greek, sanskrit etc, and authored a vast

collection of books/essays etc. His "Savitri" is a monumental poem.

Venus+Mercury combination in 2nd house certainly made him talented,

but it's the strong Sun, as 2nd lord in 2nd, who lent him that

extraordinary brilliance where language is concerned.

I took up celebrity charts because their life is known to every one

and events can be verified. However if you prefer to discuss non-

celebrity charts i am ready to do so. I always found strong

benefics/malefics giving good results (wrt their

significations ...both natural & functional)unless they are

otherwise afflicted.

As you said, vivekam should be accorded primacy, alongwith

comprehensive examination, in judging a chart and one should not be

carried away by bias.

Regards,

Lakshmi

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

> lord of

> > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> the same

> > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

think

> again

> > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what

it

> did

> > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

became

> > shubha or less malefic.

>

> Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the

dass

> operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-

Ven-

> Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

>

> Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

>

> Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

>

> Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

>

> Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

>

> Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon

> and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus

and

> gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger

> from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

>

> I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

>

> However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn

on

> Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even

weak

> Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja

> yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went.

>

> Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

>

> Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th

> gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the

> exalted Saturn in 4th house.

>

> In each of the

> > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

occupy

> > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> without

> > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

make

> up

> > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> know

> > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> and Mars

> > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation.

Do

> you

> > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

>

> Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) &

> 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and

> gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the

> effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> indirect, and he was not the killer.

>

> Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

>

> Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

>

> Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

>

> Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

>

> I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the

> death.

>

> Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated

> with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

>

> I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> debilitation in

> > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in

rasi

> > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

been

> > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

>

> Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's

> chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message

> again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

>

> About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of

a

> paper

> > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

>

> > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> graha is

> > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

> very

> > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> identical

> > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

> Yoga

> > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> just

> > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> expected us

> > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> >

> > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

amongst

> > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

> not fit

> > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> exercise

> > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

> glad to

> > give it to you.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> planets,

> > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

planets

> > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

malefics

> > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> jyotish

> > > texts teach?

> > >

> > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

malefics

> > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

significations

> > > suffered.

> > >

> > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > >

> > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > >

> > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

> Mars

> > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

navamsa.

> > >

> > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> sritam"?

> > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

> house

> > > being beneficial?

> > >

> > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like

to

> > > read it up myself and understand.

> > >

> > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > >

> > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> around

> > > > > <>

> > > < <>>

> > > > >

> > > > > -------------------------

> > > -------

> > > > >

> > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > >

> > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> Date:

> > > 8/31/2006

> > > > >

> > > >

September 12, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

It is nice to know you had lovely time at Tiruvannamail.

I am glad you found the reference impeccable. Even if we accept that the

shloka must be understood in the context of the previous shloka, it

would yet mean that Saturn being strong gives less sorrow and since this

is contrary result, per the shloka for others, if malefic, they will act

as more malefic when they are strong. Actually this is reiterated if one

looks at the previous shloka where a strong rahu is said to give more

Mada. Of course if one wants to put only the meaning that is acceptable

to one, ignoring rules of interpretation of astrological texts, one is

always free to do so.

By the way Mada actually has many meanings in Sanskrit language and Lust

is one of them. It also refers to intoxication and Koshas do give that

meaning to Mada. Of course one can always take creative artistic liberty

to interpret Mada as ego even if it does not refer to ego. I can not

help that.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time.

>

> Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i

> only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the

> correct context in which your quote should be interpreted.

>

> Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify

> it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti (bless

> him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of saravali,

> in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com)

> and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit.

>

> ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé|

> guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1||

>

> The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the strength,

> Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones

> ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief.

>

> ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by you)

>

> The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their placement

> in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak,

> the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is

> different.

>

> Let me clearly state what i understand from the above:

> If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then mind

> is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is strong

> then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's

> sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is strong,

> and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn

> gives a different result.

>

> Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If

> Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief.

>

> Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma mentioned

> Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!!

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi,

> >

> > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature and

> > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here is

> the

> > shloka:

> >

> > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>,

> >

> > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù|

> >

> > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!.

> >

> > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam||

> >

> > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You

> may

> > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW

> PALLADIO IT

> > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have not

> > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

> > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether

> benefic

> > > or malefic, give good results.

> > >

> > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

> > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How do

> > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

> > >

> > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your

> quote.

> > >

> > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by principle

> and

> > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept

> whatever

> > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

> > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering why

> you

> > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

> > > acknowledged masters of astrology?

> > >

> > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the quote....if

> > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

> > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you later

> > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

> > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting myself.

> > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi.

> > > >

> > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what

> Dr.

> > > Raman

> > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

> > > >

> > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya

> is

> > > lord of

> > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> > > the same

> > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> think

> > > again

> > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

> what it

> > > did

> > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> became

> > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened to

> > > the 7th

> > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In each

> of

> > > the

> > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> occupy

> > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> > > without

> > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> make

> > > up

> > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> > > know

> > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> > > and Mars

> > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

> exaltation. Do

> > > you

> > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans

> Ramkrishna's

> > > chart,

> > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > > debilitation in

> > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in

> rasi

> > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> been

> > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I trust

> > > you are

> > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

> of a

> > > paper

> > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > > >

> > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> > > graha is

> > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

> the

> > > very

> > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > > identical

> > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

> Mahapurusha

> > > Yoga

> > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> > > just

> > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > > expected us

> > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > > >

> > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> amongst

> > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

> does

> > > not fit

> > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > > exercise

> > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course

> be

> > > glad to

> > > > give it to you.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > > planets,

> > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> planets

> > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> malefics

> > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > > jyotish

> > > > > texts teach?

> > > > >

> > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> malefics

> > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> significations

> > > > > suffered.

> > > > >

> > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

> (4H).

> > > Mars

> > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> navamsa.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > > sritam"?

> > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

> 8th

> > > house

> > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

> like to

> > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > >

> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > > around

> > > > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > < <>

> < <>>

> > > < <>

> < <>>>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------

> -

> > > > > -------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> > > Date:

> > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

September 12, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

Did I say that Saravali conflicts with classics? I do not think so. I

also said that Krura become Maha krura in exaltation with the exception

of Saturn and as you doubted the authenticity of the dictum "Shane

Viparitama Smritam" I revealed the source as Saravali.

I think the only place where you have a different opinion is that

Atma/strength can not be Krura and Sun is Atma in the real sense.

I happen to differ on that, as all including Parashara have classified

Surya as Papa/Krura graha and I do not consider myself an authority

greater than the sages. So I must differ with you on that point.

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> I forgot to add the following:

>

> 1) I find that there's no disagreement between what's given in other

> texts and Saravali.

>

> 2)I also find that according to the shloka quoted by you, there's no

> support for the supposition that krura planets become maha-krura

> with exaltation...unless you happen to equate Soul and strength with

> krura tatwa!!

>

> 3) Mercury is ofcourse karaka for speech:--))

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > Back from Tiruvannamail. Had a lovely time.

> >

> > Thanks for the reference, and it is impeccable indeed. However, i

> > only wish you had also given the previous shloka, which sets the

> > correct context in which your quote should be interpreted.

> >

> > Unfortunately I do not have sanskrit Saravali (i intend to rectify

> > it soon), but I do have the tranlation. Luckily for me, Visti

> (bless

> > him!) had quoted the 1st and 2nd shlokas from chapter 4 of

> saravali,

> > in his excellent article on Vimsamsa (available on srigaruda.com)

> > and i reproduce them below for everyone's benefit.

> >

> > ätmä raviù çétakarastu vetaù sattvaà dharäjaù çaçijo'tha väëé|

> > guruùsito jïänaçukhe madaçca rähuù çäniù kälanarasya duùkham||1||

> >

> > The Sun is the Atma, Moon is the Mana, Mars indicates the

> strength,

> > Jupiter and Venus show knowledge and happiness respectively, ones

> > ego is indicated by Rahu and Saturn is the cause of grief.

> >

> > ätmädayo gaganagairbaàlibhirbalavattaräù|....(already quoted by

> you)

> >

> > The Atma, and other significations will be strong if their

> placement

> > in the heavens (bhavas) is auspicious. If these planets are weak,

> > the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is

> > different.

> >

> > Let me clearly state what i understand from the above:

> > If Sun is strong, Soul force is strong, if Moon is strong, then

> mind

> > is strong, if Mars is strong, strength is more, if jupiter is

> strong

> > then one's knowledge is good, if Venus is strong, then one's

> > sukha/comforts is more, if Rahu is strong then one's ego is

> strong,

> > and if Saturn is strong, grief is less!! It is so because Saturn

> > gives a different result.

> >

> > Now, isn't "less grief" a good result given by a strong Saturn? If

> > Saturn is weak, he will give greater grief.

> >

> > Btw, Sir, how come you have not noticed that Kalyana Varma

> mentioned

> > Rahu as the karaka for ego? That too just in the previous shloka!!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi,

> > >

> > > You will find it in Saravali when talking about the way nature

> and

> > > strengths of grahas manifest. So the source is impeccable. Here

> is

> > the

> > > shloka:

> > >

> > > AaTmadyae ggngEbRiliÉbRlvÄra>,

> > >

> > > ätmädayo gaganagairbalibhirbalavattaräù|

> > >

> > > ÊbRlEÊRbRla }eya ivpirt< zne> Sm&tm!.

> > >

> > > durbalairdurbalä jïeyä viparitaà çaneù småtam||

> > >

> > > I am sure there is no confusion inn what Kalyan Varman said. You

> > may

> > > have to use Sanskrit99 fonts for first and 3rd line and ULW

> > PALLADIO IT

> > > fonts for 2nd and 4th line of the shloka.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > I quoted the references(highly respected ones) I know. I have

> not

> > > > confined myself only to Shri B.V. Raman, but also said that all

> > > > major jyotish texts say that exalted/strong planets, whether

> > benefic

> > > > or malefic, give good results.

> > > >

> > > > I was trying to understand and verify your point of view and

> > > > accordingly took up some charts where malefics are strong. How

> do

> > > > you say that whatever examples I have given are out of context?

> > > >

> > > > I also requested you to give the source and context of your

> > quote.

> > > >

> > > > Is trying to understand/verify what you have said, by

> principle

> > and

> > > > example, wrong? Would you rather want me to blindly accept

> > whatever

> > > > you've stated? I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and

> > > > experience and can certainly do so, but can't help wondering

> why

> > you

> > > > have not accorded the same respect to the vision/experience of

> > > > acknowledged masters of astrology?

> > > >

> > > > I am certainly interested in knowing reference of the

> quote....if

> > > > possible the entire shloka please. I will also go through your

> > > > analysis of the charts with an open mind and revert to you

> later

> > > > (after 2 days-going to tiruvannamalai). If I am convinced what

> > > > you've said is correct, I have no problems in correcting

> myself.

> > > > After all that's the major advantage of being a student:--))

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi.

> > > > >

> > > > > I stated the principle given. It has nothing to do with what

> > Dr.

> > > > Raman

> > > > > said. Giving examples out of contexts does not prove a point.

> > > > >

> > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart

> Surya

> > is

> > > > lord of

> > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga.

> At

> > > > the same

> > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> > think

> > > > again

> > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

> > what it

> > > > did

> > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> > became

> > > > > shubha or less malefic. Or if you like look at what happened

> to

> > > > the 7th

> > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava. In

> each

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> > occupy

> > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous

> mail),

> > > > without

> > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> > make

> > > > up

> > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did

> you

> > > > know

> > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left

> hand

> > > > and Mars

> > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

> > exaltation. Do

> > > > you

> > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results? In Paramhans

> > Ramkrishna's

> > > > chart,

> > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > > > debilitation in

> > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation

> in

> > rasi

> > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> > been

> > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail. About Shri Aurobindo, I

> trust

> > > > you are

> > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

> > of a

> > > > paper

> > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > > > >

> > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas.

> Every

> > > > graha is

> > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

> > the

> > > > very

> > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > > > identical

> > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

> > Mahapurusha

> > > > Yoga

> > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring

> Saturn),

> > > > just

> > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > > > expected us

> > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> > amongst

> > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

> > does

> > > > not fit

> > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > > > exercise

> > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of

> course

> > be

> > > > glad to

> > > > > give it to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > > > planets,

> > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> > planets

> > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> > malefics

> > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > > > jyotish

> > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> > malefics

> > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> > significations

> > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th

> house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

> > (4H).

> > > > Mars

> > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> > navamsa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

> > 8th

> > > > house

> > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

> > like to

> > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > > > around

> > > > > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > > < <>

> < <>>

> > > > < <>

> < <>>>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> --

> > -

> > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 -

> Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

September 12, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at different

levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please do not

try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you will

find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust physique.

Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his being

capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected to

analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how does

that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our devotion to

Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of his chart.

Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of grahas

will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen

separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying to find

what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten the

saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective and let

me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not say

anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him Sarcoma

being 3rd lord.

Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as you

have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its Mahadasha

prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

> lord of

> > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> the same

> > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to think

> again

> > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what it

> did

> > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it became

> > shubha or less malefic.

>

> Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the dass

> operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-Ven-

> Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

>

> Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

>

> Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

>

> Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

>

> Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

>

> Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon

> and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus and

> gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger

> from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

>

> I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

>

> However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn on

> Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even weak

> Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja

> yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went.

>

> Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

>

> Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th

> gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the

> exalted Saturn in 4th house.

>

> In each of the

> > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets occupy

> > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> without

> > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then make

> up

> > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> know

> > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> and Mars

> > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation. Do

> you

> > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

>

> Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) &

> 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and

> gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the

> effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> indirect, and he was not the killer.

>

> Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

>

> Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

>

> Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

>

> Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

>

> I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the

> death.

>

> Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated

> with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

>

> I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> debilitation in

> > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in rasi

> > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already been

> > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

>

> Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's

> chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message

> again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

>

> About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of a

> paper

> > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

>

> > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> graha is

> > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

> very

> > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> identical

> > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

> Yoga

> > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> just

> > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> expected us

> > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> >

> > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected amongst

> > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

> not fit

> > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> exercise

> > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

> glad to

> > give it to you.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> planets,

> > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak planets

> > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong malefics

> > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> jyotish

> > > texts teach?

> > >

> > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong malefics

> > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their significations

> > > suffered.

> > >

> > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > >

> > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > >

> > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

> Mars

> > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in navamsa.

> > >

> > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> sritam"?

> > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

> house

> > > being beneficial?

> > >

> > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like to

> > > read it up myself and understand.

> > >

> > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > >

> > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> around

> > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > -------------------------

> > > -------

> > > > >

> > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > >

> > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> Date:

> > > 8/31/2006

> > > > >

> > > >

September 12, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

Remember it is you who attributed Surya with divine qualities, being

Atma, bereft of any malice and said he is giver of good when with rahu

in your case and now you say that it gives Cancer, when aspecting Moon

(7th from it). What proposition is correct? First decide that then we

shall delve into analysis of chart of Ramana Maharshi.

I did not know that only good points, according to those who place

religion over their motherland, are to be highlighted in Aurobindo's

chart. I look at his revolutionary credential with reverence. For me it

makes him not only more divine but also more human for having been a

revolutionary who dared to put his own life at risk for the sake of his

convictions.

So we naturally differ on our view of looking at a chart. I prefer to

analyze a chart by looking at what the planets hold in promise and you

perhaps are more concerned with the perception that others had about a

famous personality. So let us not begin by telling that only divine

things, related to a religious figure, can only be commented on if a

chart is presented as Pramana of a jyotish principle under discussion.

If interpreting charts in the way people want the religious or national

figures to be seen is to be resorted to under the garb of Viveka, then

let us not talk about astrological principles. We can pick up any

biography and try to fit in the perception of that figure amongst its

followers or fans, with the chart. That is not difficult. But for me

that is not Jyotish.

I am sorry if I am too strong in expressing my views on Jyotish, here.

But I can not toe the populist line just because that is the in thing in

the name of Vedic Shastra.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> Continuing from where i left earlier, in Sri ramana Maharshi's case,

> Sun & Rahu, also posited in the 7th from Moon, are the marakas.

> Ramana Maharshi died of Cancer, and it is known that expansive

> planets like Rahu and jupiter cause cancer. Ofcourse, Mars as the

> 6th lord from Moon and 3& 8th lord from lagna can also indicate

> illness, but in Sri Ramana's case it's the afflicted Sun who proved

> to be the maraka more than the strong Mars!!

>

> Talking about Shri Aurobindo, I think Vande Mataram is a nationalist

> newspaper and as such is bound to contain fiery language. I am

> puzzled that for you, Sri Aurobindo pesonifies only Vande Mataram

> and not his other attributes/achievements. He excelled in various

> languages including latin, greek, sanskrit etc, and authored a vast

> collection of books/essays etc. His "Savitri" is a monumental poem.

> Venus+Mercury combination in 2nd house certainly made him talented,

> but it's the strong Sun, as 2nd lord in 2nd, who lent him that

> extraordinary brilliance where language is concerned.

>

> I took up celebrity charts because their life is known to every one

> and events can be verified. However if you prefer to discuss non-

> celebrity charts i am ready to do so. I always found strong

> benefics/malefics giving good results (wrt their

> significations ...both natural & functional)unless they are

> otherwise afflicted.

>

> As you said, vivekam should be accorded primacy, alongwith

> comprehensive examination, in judging a chart and one should not be

> carried away by bias.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya is

> > lord of

> > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> > the same

> > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> think

> > again

> > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about what

> it

> > did

> > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> became

> > > shubha or less malefic.

> >

> > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the

> dass

> > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-

> Ven-

> > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> >

> > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> >

> > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

> >

> > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> >

> > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

> >

> > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from Moon

> > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus

> and

> > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger

> > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

> >

> > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> >

> > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn

> on

> > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even

> weak

> > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja

> > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he went.

> >

> > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

> >

> > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th

> > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the

> > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> >

> > In each of the

> > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> occupy

> > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> > without

> > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> make

> > up

> > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> > know

> > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> > and Mars

> > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in exaltation.

> Do

> > you

> > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> >

> > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) &

> > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and

> > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the

> > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> >

> > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> >

> > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

> >

> > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> >

> > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

> >

> > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the

> > death.

> >

> > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally unrelated/unassociated

> > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

> >

> > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > debilitation in

> > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in

> rasi

> > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> been

> > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> >

> > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's

> > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message

> > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> >

> > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor of

> a

> > paper

> > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> >

> > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> > graha is

> > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at the

> > very

> > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > identical

> > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha Mahapurusha

> > Yoga

> > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> > just

> > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > expected us

> > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > >

> > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> amongst

> > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that does

> > not fit

> > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > exercise

> > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course be

> > glad to

> > > give it to you.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > planets,

> > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> planets

> > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> malefics

> > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > jyotish

> > > > texts teach?

> > > >

> > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> malefics

> > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> significations

> > > > suffered.

> > > >

> > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > >

> > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu (4H).

> > Mars

> > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> navamsa.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > sritam"?

> > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the 8th

> > house

> > > > being beneficial?

> > > >

> > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would like

> to

> > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > >

> > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > around

> > > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > -------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> > Date:

> > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > >

> > > > >

September 13, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha

(attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy)

If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the

shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with

power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct

appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As

Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good

deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom,

required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by

Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is

said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end

use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very

important.

I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always

said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if

they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my

previous mails to confirm this.

Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an

argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and

celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose in

continuing these discussions.

Thanks & Regards,

Lakshmi

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Divine Lakshmi,

>

> Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at

different

> levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So please

do not

> try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you

will

> find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust

physique.

>

> Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his

being

> capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was expected

to

> analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha how

does

> that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our

devotion to

> Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of

his chart.

>

> Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects of

grahas

> will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be seen

> separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying

to find

> what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

>

> Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps forgotten

the

> saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective

and let

> me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did not

say

> anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him

Sarcoma

> being 3rd lord.

>

> Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent as

you

> have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its

Mahadasha

> prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart Surya

is

> > lord of

> > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga. At

> > the same

> > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

think

> > again

> > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

what it

> > did

> > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

became

> > > shubha or less malefic.

> >

> > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the

dass

> > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in Jup-

Ven-

> > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> >

> > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> >

> > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

> >

> > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> >

> > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

> >

> > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from

Moon

> > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of Venus

and

> > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are stronger

> > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

> >

> > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> >

> > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of Saturn

on

> > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even

weak

> > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the raja

> > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he

went.

> >

> > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

> >

> > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in 7th

> > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on the

> > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> >

> > In each of the

> > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

occupy

> > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous mail),

> > without

> > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

make

> > up

> > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did you

> > know

> > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left hand

> > and Mars

> > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

exaltation. Do

> > you

> > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> >

> > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK) &

> > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun and

> > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give the

> > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> >

> > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> >

> > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

> >

> > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> >

> > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

> >

> > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed the

> > death.

> >

> > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

unrelated/unassociated

> > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

> >

> > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > debilitation in

> > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation in

rasi

> > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

been

> > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> >

> > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in Thakur's

> > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my message

> > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> >

> > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

of a

> > paper

> > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> >

> > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas. Every

> > graha is

> > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

the

> > very

> > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > identical

> > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

Mahapurusha

> > Yoga

> > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring Saturn),

> > just

> > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > expected us

> > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > >

> > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

amongst

> > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

does

> > not fit

> > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > exercise

> > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of course

be

> > glad to

> > > give it to you.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > planets,

> > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

planets

> > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

malefics

> > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > jyotish

> > > > texts teach?

> > > >

> > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

malefics

> > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

significations

> > > > suffered.

> > > >

> > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > >

> > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > >

> > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

(4H).

> > Mars

> > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

navamsa.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > sritam"?

> > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

8th

> > house

> > > > being beneficial?

> > > >

> > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

like to

> > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > >

> > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > around

> > > > > > <>

> > < <>>

> > > > < <>

> > < <>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > -------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release

> > Date:

> > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > >

> > > > >

September 13, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

"vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini as

preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja

or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am sure

you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's the

head!!

Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini.

It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the

eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya

shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH.

Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the climactic

name of shakti in ascension?

Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote

this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa

swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). don't

let it sleep!!

Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time for

taking leave.

Regards,

Lakshmi

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed),

moha

> (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy)

> If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the

> shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with

> power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

>

> Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct

> appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As

> Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good

> deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom,

> required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by

> Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is

> said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end

> use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very

> important.

>

> I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always

> said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if

> they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my

> previous mails to confirm this.

>

> Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an

> argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and

> celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose

in

> continuing these discussions.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> >

> > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at

> different

> > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So

please

> do not

> > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you

> will

> > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust

> physique.

> >

> > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his

> being

> > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was

expected

> to

> > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha

how

> does

> > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our

> devotion to

> > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of

> his chart.

> >

> > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects

of

> grahas

> > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be

seen

> > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying

> to find

> > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps

forgotten

> the

> > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective

> and let

> > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did

not

> say

> > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him

> Sarcoma

> > being 3rd lord.

> >

> > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent

as

> you

> > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its

> Mahadasha

> > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart

Surya

> is

> > > lord of

> > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga.

At

> > > the same

> > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> think

> > > again

> > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

> what it

> > > did

> > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> became

> > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > >

> > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the

> dass

> > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in

Jup-

> Ven-

> > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > >

> > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > >

> > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

> > >

> > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > >

> > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

> > >

> > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from

> Moon

> > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of

Venus

> and

> > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are

stronger

> > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

> > >

> > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > >

> > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of

Saturn

> on

> > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even

> weak

> > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the

raja

> > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he

> went.

> > >

> > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

> > >

> > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in

7th

> > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on

the

> > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > >

> > > In each of the

> > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> occupy

> > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous

mail),

> > > without

> > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> make

> > > up

> > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did

you

> > > know

> > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left

hand

> > > and Mars

> > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

> exaltation. Do

> > > you

> > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > >

> > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK)

&

> > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun

and

> > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give

the

> > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > >

> > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > >

> > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

> > >

> > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > >

> > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

> > >

> > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed

the

> > > death.

> > >

> > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> unrelated/unassociated

> > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

> > >

> > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > > debilitation in

> > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation

in

> rasi

> > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> been

> > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > >

> > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in

Thakur's

> > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my

message

> > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > >

> > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

> of a

> > > paper

> > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > >

> > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas.

Every

> > > graha is

> > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

> the

> > > very

> > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > > identical

> > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

> Mahapurusha

> > > Yoga

> > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring

Saturn),

> > > just

> > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > > expected us

> > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > > >

> > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> amongst

> > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

> does

> > > not fit

> > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > > exercise

> > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of

course

> be

> > > glad to

> > > > give it to you.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > > planets,

> > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> planets

> > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> malefics

> > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > > jyotish

> > > > > texts teach?

> > > > >

> > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> malefics

> > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> significations

> > > > > suffered.

> > > > >

> > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th

house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

> (4H).

> > > Mars

> > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> navamsa.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > > sritam"?

> > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

> 8th

> > > house

> > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

> like to

> > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > >

> > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > > around

> > > > > > > <>

> > > < <>>

> > > > > < <>

> > > < <>>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

--

> -

> > > > > -------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 -

Release

> > > Date:

> > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

September 13, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

By the way Vag beeja kuta is not only head but a group of Panchadhasha

mantra and referred to as maa's face indicating the vacha.

Raajrajeshwari Kavacha prays that the vagbija protect the throat and not

the head as you imply. Certainly not head. And her principal abode is

said to be Mulaadhara and not sahasrara. However if you want to distort

this to mean she is inauspicious when dormant you are free to do so. I

would however request you to think why the HrIm beeja is most dear to

her and not the AiM beeja (Devi Patha, if you need the reference). It

would perhaps be well to understand that Kundalini means of the coiled

form and "Visa Tantu..." coming after that certainly does not mean what

you want to think it does.

In the meanwhile, please contemplate on this.

Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

This is how Kundalini is described in Rudrayamala Tantra. Do you think

it is wrong?

Chandrashekhar.

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> "vagbhavabeejasya kundalineethi sangnyaa thadroopa"...Kundalini as

> preceding "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is described as vagbhava beeja

> or "aim" (saraswati) beeja. As you have read the yamalas, i am sure

> you know which part of body comprises of vagbhava koota...it's the

> head!!

>

> Let me also explain the term preceding kundalini.

> It's "mahaasakthiH" and not "MahashakthiH" and talks of the

> eagerness of Mother to unite with Shiva....mahe utsave tatratya

> shivashaktisamaayogaroope aasakthiH tatparataa yasyaaH.

>

> Is this enough to show that "bisa tantu taneeyasee" is the climactic

> name of shakti in ascension?

>

> Regarding Devi worshippers wrt unawakened kundalini, let me quote

> this sentence.....hey Srividyopaasakaah. uttishtatha. maa

> swaptha....meaning o srividyopaasaka! wake up( the kundalini). don't

> let it sleep!!

>

> Many thanks for this extended discussion on Kundalini. It's time for

> taking leave.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed),

> moha

> > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya (jealousy)

> > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply among the

> > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is intoxicated/drunk with

> > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> >

> > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini" and correct

> > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of both facets. As

> > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be routed towards good

> > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the same? The wisdom,

> > required to put this immense shakti to good use, is represented by

> > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati, wisdom and power, is

> > said to be auspicious because it ensures the correct/judicious end

> > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is very very

> > important.

> >

> > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and krura. I also always

> > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give malefic results, if

> > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can refer to all my

> > previous mails to confirm this.

> >

> > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or losing an

> > argument. All discussions must proceed as an exploration and

> > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I see no purpose

> in

> > continuing these discussions.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > >

> > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are operating at

> > different

> > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die young. So

> please

> > do not

> > > try to mix the issues. If you have read Swamiji's biography you

> > will

> > > find that he fell sick many times despite of apparent robust

> > physique.

> > >

> > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart confirms with his

> > being

> > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not know I was

> expected

> > to

> > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is a Kuja dosha

> how

> > does

> > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not bring our

> > devotion to

> > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into astrological analysis of

> > his chart.

> > >

> > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are on the effects

> of

> > grahas

> > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The two have to be

> seen

> > > separately as we are not trying to time an event but only trying

> > to find

> > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have perhaps

> forgotten

> > the

> > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in that perspective

> > and let

> > > me know your views. And if by the way you read my mail, I did

> not

> > say

> > > anything about mars being killer for him, only that it gave him

> > Sarcoma

> > > being 3rd lord.

> > >

> > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and always beneficent

> as

> > you

> > > have claimed all along in the thread on the topic, did its

> > Mahadasha

> > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > > For example, remember that in Swami Vivekananda's chart

> Surya

> > is

> > > > lord of

> > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a powerful Raj yoga.

> At

> > > > the same

> > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived, you may have to

> > think

> > > > again

> > > > > about saying that it did not act as Mahakrura. Think about

> > what it

> > > > did

> > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before declaring that it

> > became

> > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > >

> > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu and looking at the

> > dass

> > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he passed away in

> Jup-

> > Ven-

> > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > >

> > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > >

> > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10 (3:59:13 pm)

> > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27 (4:48:54 pm)

> > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12 (10:43:55 pm)

> > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07 (5:06:28 am)

> > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06 (2:29:24 am)

> > > >

> > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > >

> > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05 (1:27:03 am)

> > > >

> > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is the 2nd lord from

> > Moon

> > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in the house of

> Venus

> > and

> > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the 2nd lord from

> > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka significations are

> stronger

> > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early death.

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > >

> > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th house, can give

> > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the influence of

> Saturn

> > on

> > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th house? I am sure even

> > weak

> > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))but without the

> raja

> > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he created wherever he

> > went.

> > > >

> > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the 7th bhava.

> > > >

> > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the strong Mars in

> 7th

> > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have not commented on

> the

> > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > >

> > > > In each of the

> > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava that the planets

> > occupy

> > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated in previous

> mail),

> > > > without

> > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great people, and then

> > make

> > > > up

> > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of what I said. Did

> you

> > > > know

> > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant sarcoma of left

> hand

> > > > and Mars

> > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his chart, in

> > exaltation. Do

> > > > you

> > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > >

> > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine the following dasa

> > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd lord from Moon(AK)

> &

> > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart, rahu is with Sun

> and

> > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of which point to

> > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and ketu can give

> the

> > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if at all, was only

> > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > >

> > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > >

> > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03 (2:05:32 pm)

> > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21 (8:49:14 am)

> > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18 (12:04:47 am)

> > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20 (12:18:02 am)

> > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (11:08:26 pm)

> > > >

> > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > >

> > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14 (12:47:04 pm)

> > > >

> > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the dasa of the graha

> > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think their mind willed

> the

> > > > death.

> > > >

> > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > with itself? I request you to consider the above objectively.

> > > >

> > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in my next mail.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as a planet in

> > > > debilitation in

> > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when in exaltation

> in

> > rasi

> > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane smritam has already

> > been

> > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > >

> > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered Mars/Venus in

> Thakur's

> > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go through my

> message

> > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > >

> > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and that he was editor

> > of a

> > > > paper

> > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft language.

> > > >

> > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving P.M. Yogas.

> Every

> > > > graha is

> > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga attributed to it, at

> > the

> > > > very

> > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine they would all give

> > > > identical

> > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all with Pancha

> > Mahapurusha

> > > > Yoga

> > > > > would only rule over different parts of India (barring

> Saturn),

> > > > just

> > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us principles and

> > > > expected us

> > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using Viveka.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving the reference to

> > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old classic respected

> > amongst

> > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to accept anything that

> > does

> > > > not fit

> > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr. Raman, it would be an

> > > > exercise

> > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka I would of

> course

> > be

> > > > glad to

> > > > > give it to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V. Raman that strong

> > > > planets,

> > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good results, while weak

> > planets

> > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also disagree about strong

> > malefics

> > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it contrary to what all the

> > > > jyotish

> > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I find that strong

> > malefics

> > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor that their

> > significations

> > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and mars in 5th

> house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in lagna.

> > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn(9H) and Rahu

> > (4H).

> > > > Mars

> > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while debilitated in

> > navamsa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference for "vipareetam shaneH

> > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's placement in the

> > 8th

> > > > house

> > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn gives good results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is because i would

> > like to

> > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is, that with

> > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and the shubha grahas

> > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak and beneficial or

> > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9 years old, and

> > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't notice the second

> > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the difference between

> > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is giving Sun's

> > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good, then it

> > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because according to

> > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak, give bad results

> > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong planets, even if

> > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he wouldn't be

> > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly combust and inferior

> > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of Dharma

> > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according to "300

> > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher shadbala is more

> > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to read the Karna

> > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died, the nature bowed

> > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because Parashurama would teach

> > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn dhanurvidya from

> > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana. Deceit is

> > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to be borne in mind

> > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please Duryodhana, his

> > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from 8th house (I

> > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural zodiac, the 10 th

> > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord of death, hence

> > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the Rudras (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides in south and

> > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he has digbala in

> > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred to Surya as

> > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma and not as a

> > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the subject.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the results of the dasha

> > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father had promotions and

> > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that time. It is

> > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of 9 or so as that

> > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did not have any

> > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu and Rahu would

> > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as you guessed but

> > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati yoga after all)

> > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha instead of Rahu

> > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I say so but

> > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct a papa graha

> > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha trikona and

> > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though claimed to be

> > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th) and its home that

> > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more popularly called

> > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it is really

> > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun be at its most

> > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not represent water bodies

> > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too. My father

> > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great and i received

> > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative writing, Veena,

> > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a student, I guess

> > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if Sun were weak?

> > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but being in Sun's

> > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is also giving the

> > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic and heavily

> > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water bodies, so why

> > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

> > > > around

> > > > > > > > <>

> < <>>

> > > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > > < <>

> < <>>

> > > > < <>

> < <>>>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> --

> > -

> > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

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> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 -

> Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 8/31/2006

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> > > > > > >

September 13, 2006

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada does mean intoxication

or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to kaamana which means

desires for things possessed by others. That is what Asteya, one of the

Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of the dormant or

awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be misinterpreted if

one wants to do that. But that does not serve any purpose. I would not

go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya related to Maa. I have

not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka, to support your

proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious and the awakened

Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already posted the way my

generation has been taught to accept an argument, so I shall not repeat

it here.

But I will not resort to conjectures and would like to quote from

Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant Kundalini. Being

graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to translate it for you.

Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

sä me mätåmanusthitä kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

I am sure you must have some quote to support your contention. I would

like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so that I can improve

upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

I can understand your reluctance to support your propositions with

suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by pointing out the

inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu combinations in two

different chart as stand out combinations only.

I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I have done so

inadvertently I crave your pardon.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha